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Our shame

Tony Abbott and Scott Morrison are claiming success for stopping the boats. The media are saying job well done. Coalition supporters are pointing to the scoreboard.

Well here is the forgotten side of the Coalition’s scoreboard.

In December 2012, Coalition Shadow Immigration spokesman, Scott Morrison, questioned the Federal Government paying for the flights of the bereaved from Christmas Island to Sydney to attend the funerals of their families.

On the 27th of September 2013 a boat carrying Lebanese, Iranian, Iraqi & African asylum seekers sank off Java en route to Australia. Reports varied about the number of people on board between 63 and 125. Thirty-six people were confirmed drowned, including a number of children, though news reports suggested the death toll may have been 70.

On December 9 2013 a boat carrying 30 Iranian and ethnic Rohingya asylum seekers sank off the coast of Java, bound for Australia. There were three deaths including one two year old child.

On February 5 2014 Rezene Mebrahta Engeda, a 30 year old Eritrean man drowned himself in the Maribyrnong River, Victoria upon notice of a failed asylum application and letter to attend a meeting with DIBP where he assumed he would be told of his pending deportation to Eritrea.

On February 13 2014 a 27 year old Indian man hung himself in Maribyrnong Immigration Detention Centre. He had been detained since January 2014 for overstaying his student visa. Victorian Police are investigating his death.

February 17 2014 Reza Barati, a 24 year old Iranian man, died of head injuries on the way to Lorengau hospital in PNG following protests at the Manus Island Immigration Detention Centre. The detention centre had come under fire by PNG police following protesting by detainees, resulting in the injury of 77 others, 12 seriously.

On June 1 2014 Leo Seemanpillai, a 29 year old Sri Lankan man died as a result of self immolation, suffering burns to 90% of his body. He had been living in community detention on a bridging visa awaiting the outcome of his refugee claim.

On September 3 2014 Hamid Kehazaei was declared brain dead after contracting cellulitis in remote Manus Island Immigration Detention Centre.

Pregnant asylum seekers will give birth in Nauru for the first time since 2004 under the Abbott government’s ”no exemptions” approach to offshore detention.

Of six pregnant women transferred from detention on Manus Island in Papua New Guinea by Labor earlier in the year, three miscarried.

In June 2014, two sixteen year old Vietnamese boys were abducted from their community house in Adelaide when they returned home after school, and taken to Wickham Point detention centre, built on a site that would have housed gas workers instead, except it had been deemed unfit for human habitation due to severe mosquito and midge infestations. The pair have remained in the high-security facility ever since. They had done nothing wrong. The letter handed to them at the time said “The Minister for Immigration and Border Protection has made a decision that your residence determination is no longer in the public interest.” Fifteen other children have run away for fear it will also happen to them. They have not been heard from since.

This was around the same time that Morrison turned over one boatload of Tamil asylum seekers to the Sri Lankan Navy and kept another boatload imprisoned on the high seas for over a month.

I cannot express my shame that this is lauded as a success. What have we become?

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  1. Kaye Lee

    I should add this shame is shared by the Labor party.

    These are real people we are persecuting. We have no idea what happens to them when we send them home or to other countries. The list of suicides in detention over the years is frightening and the despair felt by those currently in offshore detention is unimaginable. The cruelty must stop. We have to find another way.

  2. david linehan

    Agree 100% with your sentiments and Richard Marles the failed Shadow Immigration Minister should be sent to the back bench for his gutless, timid failed prosecution of Morrisons evil death initiating policies.
    Until Labor have the spine to admit their off shore processing policy was wrong, is cruel and inhumane they will be regarded as no better than Morrison. That is shame.

  3. Neil of Sydney

    John Howard had a better policy. We had a policy which stopped the boats and we took our asylum seekers from UNHCR camps. Unless we are willing to take all 40 million refugees we have to have a quota system.

    Under the Rudd/Gillard system $10,000 got you a place in Australia whether you were a refugee or not

    “February 17 2014 Reza Barati, a 24 year old Iranian man, died of head injuries on the way to Lorengau hospital”

    Reza risked his life because he could not get a job as an Architect in his home country. Our humanitarian program is not for people like him.

    We had none of the problems listed in 2007. Our detention centers were empty but we still took 13.750 refugees. All our problems can be traced to Rudd/Gillard and the people who voted for them.

    The only thing wrong with Howards Pacific Solution was we did not take enough refugees. I have yet to see in an imperfect world a better system.

  4. John Fraser

    <

    Mosrrison should be tried in an Australian Court of Law for negligent homicide.

  5. John Fraser

    <

    Neil of Sydney

    "Our humanitarian program is not for people like him."

    And yet you think "we" should accept you.

    Get ready to be hacked "Neil of Sydney".

  6. nickthiwerspoon

    An utterly vile and loathsome government — and yes, you are right, Labor shares the blame.

  7. Neil of Sydney

    “Get ready to be hacked “Neil of Sydney”.”

    Why the threat? I have not posted for a while because you threatened me last time. You just reinforce my belief that ALP/Greens supporters are natural totalitarians.

    Fact is there is large scale people movement from poorer countries to wealthy countries. It is just a lifestyle choice. The USA is getting 30,000 economic immigrants/month from mexico and Central America.

  8. francescaagosti

    Great article, Kaye Lee. Thank you for keeping this painful yet important topic on the agenda. This litany of negligence and failure in the duty of care to these innocent vulnerables is a damning record that brings shame not only upon this unconscionable government, but upon all Australians.

    Neil of Sydney, only an LNP supporter could distort an article about the gross negligence of an LNP government into an opportunity to yet again blame Labor. How pathetic.

    This is the default position of all LNP supporters. Rather than taking an honest look at the failures of the government you and your cohorts helped bring to power in this this country, a government that is a scourge on Australian society, a government that is a laughing stock on the international stage, you instead choose to live in a world of denial where a lack of accountability and blaming others like a child in a schoolyard is the order of the day.

    Neil of Sydney, your empathy and compassion are overwhelming, in particular for Reza Berati, an innocent who was essentially murdered by the brutal and ineffective policies of this appalling government that you helped elect.

    Your comments are highly ignorant but predictable, comments that emanate from an individual who clearly has zero compassion and a complete inability to think critically other than to regurgitate propaganda disseminated by a party of liars, deceivers and manipulators of the Australian people.

    Abbott & Co’s time will come. I cannot wait for 2016.

  9. mars08

    The events leading to Reza Barati’s detention are entirely irrelevant. He was killed while in Australian custody. This country had a duty of care to keep him (and people like him) safe.

  10. Neil of Sydney

    Reza Berati was an economic immigrant. Our humanitarian program is for people in trouble not for people seeking a better life. And it was the ALP/Greens who locked him up.

  11. Kaye Lee

    John Fraser,

    I cannot condone making threats to people even though Neil is unbelievably ignorant. His lack of compassion is punishment enough. Wasn’t it Savage Garden who said I believe in karma what you give is what you get returned. One small act of kindness reverberates around the world. THAT is what we need to teach Neil. At least he agrees we should increase the humanitarian intake.

  12. Thekla

    You know all this for sure Neil of Sydney, about Reza Barati? Where’s your evidence (and no, a newspaper article is not evidence).
    But even if it was so, so what? Does that mean he deserved to be murdered? is being an ‘illegal immigrant’ the worst thing in the world or something?? Anyone would think so – judging by the way people carry on about it. Oh wait no – that’s only the boat arrivals isn’t it? Somehow the plane arrivals are not so bad.
    Also, the mistake you make is in thinking everyone here is anti-LNP and pro-Labor on these issues. I think you will find most supporters of asylum seekers don’t care which party did what, they just want to bring in better solutions. You can play party politics though, if it makes you happy.

  13. Kaye Lee

    Neil, Reza Berati was a young man who was murdered because we put him in danger. Will you for one second PLEASE concede that this is an inhumane policy which is causing great physical and emotional harm.

    And as Reza Berati had not been processed, NO, Neil does NOT know anything at all.

  14. corvus boreus

    Neil,
    You often include the /Greens in your references to responsibility for the outsourced mandatory detention upon Manus and Nauru. Could you please provide a link to any records of Greens representatives voting in favor of offshore incarceration/processing of asylum seekers/ illegal arrivals during the last Labor administration/s.

  15. mars08

    “Human rights are not reserved for citizens only, or for people with visas. They are the inalienable rights of every individual, regardless of his or her location and migration status… A tendency to promote law enforcement and security paradigms at the expense of human rights frameworks dehumanises irregular migrants, enabling a climate of violence against them and further depriving them of the full protection of the law.”

    http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/new-un-human-rights-chief-attacks-australia-over-asylum-seeker-rights-violations-20140907-10dlkx.html

  16. John Fraser

    <

    "Our humanitarian program is not for people like him."

    Not only a threat, but also an ignorant statement.

  17. david linehan

    neil of sydney a Tory troll right up there with the best of them. Your ignorance is only surpassed by your outright stupidity.

  18. Florence nee Fedup

    Reza Barati, did not deserve to die. I believe he was a Kurd from Iraq whose family moved to Iran, Was educated, but I suspect not allowed to work in the country. We see what his birth place in Iraq is like.,
    The truth s, from afar, one has no idea what these people have been through.

    If he dies not meet the criteria’s, he would have been sent back.,

    As for the Pacific Solution, it was unravelling long before Howard was deposed. Howard knew this,. Was why he was spending massive money on Christmas Island. Yes, circumstance and the court were doing their work,

    Yes, Labor did ease restrictions. Trouble is, that was only part of the story.

    What is telling, that 12 months later, no one has been settled from Manus. Putting 50 men in the jungle in containers in Nauru does not sound like resettlement. These men have little prospect of work, and it is said, cannot afford to eat.

    Morrison should have focus on getting the scheme to work, instead of boing obsessed with turning back boats, Might have averted insulting the Indonesians if he had.

    Morrison had not bothered to talk to PNG until the muddle of this year. Only occurred after the riot. Does no seem to be any progress yet.

    We have Abbott singing the praises of the Malaysia. How does that fit in, with what he said, when Gillard attempted to put in place the Malaysian Solution, Might have worked, we will never know. At leas it never locked people up forever. Others would have comer in their place.

    We have this government making matters worse, by lowering our intake from over 20k to 13.7k. Labor intended to raise to 30k., Yes, this would have meant more coming from our immediate region, taking pressure off those waiting up to a decade.

    Indonesia did their part by changing their visa laws. Yes, visas needed before getting on the plane. Result, a lot fewer coming through that country.

    There are no easy answers to this problem., There is no final solution, The environment changes daily.

    Morrison’s scheme is already beginning to unravel. At the end of the day, this nation believes in human rights. Human rights, backed up by law.

  19. Kath Malcom

    Neil is a bot an Ab bott, no brains, because if he did he would be jumping off the coalitions ship, cos it’s sinking, what a year, not much nice being said about him even by the journalists, lender Taylor, ” how Tony Abbott won and loss the trust of Australians, the title of article says it all….. he lied and so did his henchmen and gleefully and willingly knowing full well they had no intentions to match labor in anything, pack of school children, no adults in the Coal ition, they are missing in action and have been for years, god save the Coal ition cos nothin’ else will 🙂

  20. Kath Malcom

    Manus was a pressure cooker and that’s how Morrison wanted it, he is one sick puppy Morrison, couldn’t wait to get out and tell lies about the horrific incident at manus, Reza died and the coalition are proud of their policy, another young man this week died from neglect, we the country/gov have a duty of care for these people,
    that is another thing this pack of mad man have ripped up as though it dosnt matter, it does matter and they will find this out eventually the pack of arrogant fools,
    god one year of the most toxic gov ever, and nothing is getting better, 2 years of this crap they will not last that long, they have few feet left, they have shot themselves in the foot over and over again,
    Smokin Joe he has run out of feet already the imbecile…joe should stick to what he knows and that is nothing,he wouldn’t know what day it was even if it jumped up and bit him on his fat ass….

  21. Florence nee Fedup

    Neil has been around for yonks. Loves to derail posts. He has a set of arguments he runs through, Will end up saying you are all evil. Then start over again with the same comments.

  22. Kath Malcom

    Lol maybe cos he is actually not real, like Kingswood country, just get the re runs, nothing original, he is stuck in the 70s arnt you Neil, get with with groove Neil and that ain’t the Coal ition lol

  23. Anne Byam

    Neil said : ” Our humanitarian program is for people in trouble not for people seeking a better life. ”

    THE LIBERAL PARTY HASN’T .. G O T .. A DAMNED HUMANITARIAN PROGRAM …… period.

    By ‘our’ you mean the Liberal party and it’s cover of ‘compassion’ …. that’s how you phrased that ridiculous comment.

    Do NOTagain, drag the old war horse ( dead as a dodo by the way ) of the Howard Government and all IT ‘did’ so splendidly for our Country, into this subject.

    Just – bloodywell – DON’T.

    Go play with your mates on another site somewhere.

    Would suggest we all now totally ignore this provocateur. I suspect he get’s off on his perceived ability to get response.

    Let’s NOT give him his jollies.

  24. Neil of Sydney

    By the way this is what the ALP built with the help of the Greens

    Wickham Point (established in Darwin in 2011)
    Curtin (near Derby, WA, reopened in 2010)
    Scherger (near Weipa, Queensland, established in 2010)
    Yongah Hill (near Northam, WA, established in 2012)
    There was also
    Inverbrackie Alternative Places of Detention opened 2010
    Leonora Alternative Place of Detention opened 2010
    Port Augusta Immigration Residential Housing reopened 2010″
    Manus Island reopened 2012

    You find out what people believe by what people do not by what they say. And the ALP/Greens locked up more men, women and children than any govt in Australian history.

  25. Jp

    Scott Morrison, the turd who opposed Labor’s Malaysia solution on the basis that the refugees would be mistreated, they woudn’t have any rights etc., wants to send them to Cambodia instead. Mindbogling to any sane person.

  26. corvus boreus

    neil,
    You persist in saying the same shit, but do not provide the relevant information.
    Provide a link showing any record of Greens parliamentarians voting in favor of mandatory detention, or quit with the /Greens crap.

  27. Kaye Lee

    The facts Neil chooses to ignore…..

    The introduction of the Pacific Solution coincided with the removal of the Taliban from power in Afghanistan, which lead to a global decline in the number of Afghan asylum seekers – one of the biggest groups seeking asylum in Australia. There was also a hiatus in the conflict in Sri Lanka. In 2002, the United Nations reported a 45% reduction in refugee resettlement around the globe and a drop in the international refugee population of 1.5m people.

    Howard introduced TPV visas in 1999, following a global spike in refugee numbers during which 3,721 asylum seekers arrived in Australia by boat. Temporary protection visas (TPVs) were granted for three years to people found to be refugees. After that their case would be reviewed but with no guarantee they would be granted a permanent visa. Refugees on a TPV could have it revoked if they left Australia, and it did not have a provision allowing for their families to settle in Australia.

    In 2000, the year after TPVs were introduced, the number of asylum seekers arriving by boat dropped by about 800 to 2,939 people but then rose again in 2001 to 5,516 people. “In fact, in the period after that there was a huge surge. Our figures show that in that period the percentage of women and children went from around 25% to around 40%. We saw more women and children taking the very perilous journey to come to Australia by unlawful boat arrivals,”

  28. Ricardo29

    Kaye Lee, another excellent summation of a sad situation. Not a lot of point in going over the past. Neither side has covered itself in glory over this. The point is what is being done NOW by this bunch of scumbags and can it be stopped? We all know Labor was complicit (not the Greens who through the feisty Hanson-Young have been pretty honourable on this) but the question must be: Bill, what will you do if elected? If the answer is ‘more of the same’ then we need to all vote Greens. Those who don’t already.

  29. Florence nee Fedup

    There is more to the so called PNG solution than Morrison has bothered to put in place. As I said earlier, they have not resettled any yet, twelve months later. They are no longer working with those in the region, except to get Cambodia to take on our responsibilit5y.

    Still fussing about TPV. No l longer relevant, as none are being settled here. Morrison wants to give them to those that came before the cut off date, Waste money and time, leaving thousands in Limbo.

    I am sure that Bowen will have plenty to say, when he faces the Human Rights Commission.

  30. Florence nee Fedup

    Abbott and Co refused to cooperate with Gillard’s Malaysian Solution. Then after Gillard set up the Expert Panel with Houston and Paris, they scuttled those plans, Gillard was left with only one option, the PNG solution. Even there, Morrison has not gone ahead, to ensure it works.

  31. Terry2

    Neil

    You are trying to muddy the waters : nobody disagrees that both labor and the coalition are equally at fault for the situation that we now find ourselves in. But, as the saying goes ‘two wrongs don’t make a right’.

    The fact of the matter is that Abbott is now the Prime Minster and it is his duty to resolve this appalling situation.

    These people, locked up on Manus, Nauru and Christmas islands are not criminals , in fact they are the victims of criminal people smugglers.

    We should immediately sack Morrison, hand over the processing of these people to the UNHCR and as quickly as possible arrange resettlement for these folk internationally, including in Australia and, finally close down theses gulags.

  32. stephentardrew

    Thank you Kaye and Terry2 for the clarity. Time to let Neil wander off into the mist.

  33. Kaye Lee

    Considering we invaded Iraq and have imposed extreme sanctions against Iran, I would say that we bear some culpability for the increase in the number of refugees.

  34. bloke

    @ neil of sydney…

    under howard, we had children in detention sewing up their lips..
    we also had children overboard, ( lies )
    we also had babies tipped out of incubators in kuwait ( lies )
    we also had human sheddring machines and weapons of mass destruction in iraq ( lies )
    and then, on the back of all those lies, and a fake call to arms because we had to get the terrorists before they got us, we were involved in illegal immoral wars that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children who were never a threat to anyone. not to mention the hundreds of thousands more to suffer displacement, maiming, being orphaned, poisoning (for only god knows how long to continue – illegal weapons, depleted uranium ) …

    is it any wonder people seek a safe place to go where they are not being bombed?

    and you think the answer for them is to simply join the back of an imaginary queue..

    yeah.. things were much better under howard.. people like you make me physically sick. Id rather a thousand refugees come here for everyone of your ilk.

  35. Kaye Makovec

    Terry2 summed it up in saying “The fact of the matter is that Abbott is now the Prime Minster and it is his duty to resolve this appalling situation.”
    Two major events are happening around the world and both are being ignored. It doesn’t matter who or what caused these major events, something must be done before one or the other or both erupt and cause serious problems for the entire world.

    The events? Climate Change and Worldwide Displaced Persons (who have nothing more to lose).

    Australia doesn’t even make this list yet Neil speaks of what was it? “Our detention centers were empty but we still took 13.750 refugees.” 13,750? Big bloody deal!

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/20/global-refugee-figure-passes-50-million-unhcr-report

    We have an extremely high standard of living but half of the population have become the most selfish and bigoted people in the world and the proof of that is the lifters and leaners attitude of the LNP and their supporters. Who by the way try to defend their despicable actions with the ‘if you’re not with us you are lefties so you’re against us’ attitude which is ridiculous in the extreme. Odd thing is, most of these people are immigrants or children of so should have more understanding. Decency and ethics never seem to be mentioned in anything Abbott and Co (AND their supporters) do and say.

    I just can’t understand how it is wrong to accept those who are skilled ‘economic refugees’ (which all refugees are, having no jobs and no homes) yet employers are encouraged to accept ‘economic 457 Visa holders’ who still have a home to go back to. Does not make sense.

  36. Kaye Lee

    Kaye,

    We could easily lift our humanitarian intake to 50,000 and cut immigration from other areas eg 457 visas. We have heard employers in Darwin say they cannot get employees as justification for bringing in foreign workers, we have heard people say they give seasonal work to backpackers….why can’t these jobs be offered to asylum seekers and our young unemployed.

    Imagine a fleet of government buses taking people around the country on the “Employment Ride”. It would do a damn sight more good than Tony’s pollie pedal that costs us tens of thousands and is a front for Tony’s political donors to curry favour.

  37. Phi

    Neil of Sydney – Reza was murdered. Your callous opinion that “he was an economic immigrant” appears intended to sanction his murder. Now that is truly ugly opinion – it makes me shudder to think that Abbott is in power due to the sort of fanatical opinions you express here.

    There is no credible evidence to show that Reza was anything other than an asylum seeker. Your commentaries here are littered with false assumptions and ignorance. Disagreement with government policy and its implementation does not imply sympathy with the ALP, or the Greens as you repeatedly assert.

  38. mars08

    Kaye Lee:

    Considering we invaded Iraq and have imposed extreme sanctions against Iran, I would say that we bear some culpability…

    Our culpability predates the illegal “WMD mystery tour” by a quite some time. We have much, much more to be ashamed of than most people realise.

    QUOTE:

    In 1998, the UN carried out a nationwide survey of health and nutrition. It found that mortality rates among children under five in central and southern Iraq had doubled from the previous decade. That would suggest 500,000 excess deaths of children by 1998. Excess deaths of children continue at the rate of 5,000 a month. UNICEF estimated in 2002 that 70 per cent of child deaths in Iraq result from diarrhoea and acute respiratory infections. This is the result—as foretold accurately by US intelligence in 1991—of the breakdown of systems to provide clean water, sanitation, and electrical power. Adults too, particularly the elderly and other vulnerable sections, have succumbed. The overall toll, of all ages, was put at 1.2 million in a 1997 UNICEF report.

    The evidence of the effect of the sanctions came from the most authoritative sources. Denis Halliday, UN humanitarian coordinator in Iraq from 1997 to 1998, resigned in protest against the operation of the sanctions, which he termed deliberate “genocide”. He was replaced by Hans von Sponeck, who resigned in 2000, on the same grounds. Jutta Burghardt, director of the UN World Food Programme operation in Iraq, also resigned, saying that “I fully support what Mr von Sponeck was saying.”

    There is no room for doubt that genocide was conscious US policy. On May 12 1996, US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright was asked by Lesley Stahl of CBS television: “We have heard that half a million children have died. I mean, that’s more than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?” Albright replied: “I think this is a very hard choice, but the price, we think the price is worth it.”
    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2003/05/10/16098561.php

  39. diannaart

    Now if Abbott had promised to “stop people boarding boats” … well, he was never going to do that – like cooperate with Indonesia, take a look at how Australia could help reduce the need for people to flee – preventative stuff like that.

    What he will never clarify is that he meant “stop the boats midway between Australia and point of departure and shuttle people off to internment camps”… handy sound-bite, well no… truth tends to be a bit wordy.

    The boats are still being boarded and plying their way across the oceans – Abbott has simply reframed the narrative.

  40. Neil of Sydney

    “We could easily lift our humanitarian intake to 50,000 and cut immigration from other areas eg 457 visas”

    Now your talking. Trouble with the 50,000 quota is that it will never be big enough. Based on the monthly figures before Labor lost the election that is how many boat people we were getting and it was rapidly increasing.

    But the fact is there is large scale people movement from poorer countries to wealthy countries. And a lot of the time it is difficult to tell the difference between a genuine refugee and an economic immigrant.

  41. mars08

    Oh Good Grief!!! Between 2010 and 2013 over 90% of boat arrivals were granted refugee status. Maybe there is “large scale people movement from poorer countries to wealthy countries”… but that would be because they are refugees!

  42. Neil of Sydney

    Even Bob Carr says they are not refugees in the traditional sense

    Oh wait no – that’s only the boat arrivals isn’t it? Somehow the plane arrivals are not so bad.

    Here we go again. Somehow i doubt there are many people landing at Mascot airport claiming asylum. This is an area i have first hand knowledge. Education in Australia is a large money spinner. Wealthy foreign parents sends their kids here because our education standards are good. Of course they like it here and want to stay. They try every legal means to stay and if that fails they claim asylum. They are not locked up because they are here on a student, working or holiday visa. The success rate is low (20%) and i think the 20% are successful because they know how to lie better than the 80% who are rejected.

  43. mars08

    Protection Visa applications 2010-2011

    Plane arrivals: 6,335 Approval rate: 43.4%
    Boat arrivals: 5,166 Approval rate: 95.3%

  44. Florence nee Fedup

    Morrison said it is going to take years to assess the 30k refugees in this country, There has only been a few hundred let out of detection since they came to power.

    That means these people face being locked up, with no future for many years, Said it would take a couple of million to speed things up. That sounds more efficient to me.

    I believe that Morrison real agenda is not to assess but keep them locked up, toil he gets his TPV he wants.

    When Howard left power, his TPV had run their course where coming up for renewal.

    Why not give them bridging visas as Labor did, or permanent visas, letting them get on with rebuilding their lives,

    How can one force people back to where they came from, after nearly a decade. Does not make sense,

    Anyone have any idea what the new apprenticeship schemes that came in today.

  45. Roswell

    Neil, I wish you’d claim asylum. Somewhere. Anywhere. But not here.

  46. bloke

    if i were a refugee, i certainly hope id find someone who would treat me with respect, humanity, and compassion. i would like my country, to treat refugees the same way i would like, expect, to be treated if i were in their position.

  47. david linehan

    This Neil idiot is a Tory troll, a pathetic excuse for a human being, but ideally suited to be the Abbott lap sitter he is. That is in itself disgusting enough. My guess is, a low life immigrant tossed out of the fortunate for them country he came from.

  48. corvus boreus

    Bloke,
    You have the heart of it right there, brother.
    The golden rule, and the universality(fairness) of standards that follows.
    Basis of learned empathic behavior.

  49. Kaye Makovec

    “We have heard employers in Darwin say they cannot get employees as justification for bringing in foreign workers, we have heard people say they give seasonal work to backpackers….why can’t these jobs be offered to asylum seekers and our young unemployed.”

    Yes, Kaye Lee and as I personally know young people affected by this is what I have been complaining about in many places, to no avail of course 🙂

    Neil of Sydney, just because Bob Carr said it, doesn’t mean it’s true. And the proof of that pudding is in Abbott and Co’s tripe which is difficult to swallow at any time but practically impossible when undercooked 🙂

  50. david linehan

    N..The only thing you have first hand knowledge of troll is stupdity, in abundance and that comes free

  51. Neil of Sydney

    “Plane arrivals: 6,335 Approval rate: 43.4%

    And i think you will find that most of those plane arrivals are foreign students. Education is an anchor for permanent residence in Australia although i am surprised at an approval rate of 43%. My understanding is that plane arrivals had a 20% approval rating.

    People who fly in without a valid visa would be put into detention or placed on the first plane out of Australia.

    To get into Australia you need a valid visa like student, skilled eg 457 visa. After coming here to study many foreign students apply for asylum just like some athletes did after the Sydney Olympics.

    http://www.voanews.com/content/chinese-reportedly-abusing-australian-asylum-process–142909085/180302.html

    The process of gaining asylum in Australia is being routinely defrauded by applicants from China, according to a former Australian immigration officer…………Last year, more than 6,000 asylum seekers arrived in Australia by plane………..Most Chinese asylum seekers enter Australia on student or tourist visas and then apply for refugee status. …………….Chinese asylum seekers are allegedly told by migration agents to pose as members of the banned Falun Gong movement or outlawed Christian groups to convince Australian authorities to allow them to stay. “

  52. mars08

    Neil of Sydney:

    …Somehow i doubt there are many people landing at Mascot airport claiming asylum. This is an area i have first hand knowledge…

    You moron…

  53. corvus boreus

    mars08,
    Unless evidence is produced of Green federal representatives voting for mandatory detention of non-regulation asylum seekers in the last few electoral terms, I’ll consider ‘raising’ your “moron” to a “deliberate liar”.
    I am willing to be wrong on this.

  54. mars08

    I am confident that he can be both… and then some…

  55. Neil of Sydney

    “You moron…

    Why. I have first hand experience abut these so called asylum seekers who fly in. Did you read the link i provided?

    “Last year, more than 6,000 asylum seekers arrived in Australia by plane. The largest group came from China, with smaller numbers flying in from India and other Southeast Asian nations.

    Most Chinese asylum seekers enter Australia on student or tourist visas and then apply for refugee status. “

    Education is an anchor to get into Australia. Once in on a student visa foreign students claim asylum.

    “You often include the /Greens in your references to responsibility for the outsourced mandatory detention upon Manus and Nauru”

    The Greens were part of the Coalition govt that opened these detention centers. Where they not? If they disagreed they could have torn up the agreement to form minority govt with Gillard.

  56. Rossleigh

    “Where they not?” Neil? What does that mean?
    Ah well, does anyone know if Neil is one of the many trolls paid by Abbott.
    Or is he stupid enough to do it for free?

  57. corvus boreus

    Moron ‘upgrading’ completed.

  58. Neil of Sydney

    Why? I was called a moron because i said i had first hand experience with these so called asylum seekers who fly in. I have worked with these people.

    Most are children of wealthy Asian parents who fly there kids into Australia to get an education. After flying in on a student visa they claim asylum.

  59. mars08

    You said that you doubted there were many people “landing at Mascot airport claiming asylum”

    In true dimwitted Abbott fashion you failed to define what “many” means… in your world. Typical LNP weasel words.

    Sooo… you seem to think that 6,335 plane arrivals asking for asylum is NOT many.Yet that number is over 20% higher than the boat arrivals for the same year. Oh… but there were (according to you) an unacceptably high number of “Illegal Maritime Arrivals”. I assume that an unacceptably high number is roughly equal to “far too many”

    But somehow that all translates into less than “many” asylum seekers arriving by plane.

    Moron

  60. Kaye Lee

    In what capacity do you work with people seeking asylum Neil?

  61. corvus boreus

    Rossleigh,
    I suspect dyspepsic zealotry driven by negative imperatives.

  62. Neil of Sydney

    “Sooo… you seem to think that 6,335 plane arrivals asking for asylum is NOT many”

    What i meant is that i doubt many people flee for their lives and apply for asylum when they step off the plane at Mascot airport.

    Most plane asylum seekers arrive in Australia on a student visa because they want to get a BSc or PhD. After spending some time here they like it so much they do anything to try and stay in Australia. If all legal avenues fail they apply for asylum.

    There are 200,000 foreign students in Australia and most want to stay if they can.

    Like i said i have worked with these foreign students who fly in and then apply for asylum. Sorry Kaye, i will not say in what capacity i have worked with these people.

    But i can say University education earns Australia a lot of income but it is also an anchor for permanent residence in Australia.

    From my earlier link

    “.Most Chinese asylum seekers enter Australia on student or tourist visas and then apply for refugee status. …………….Chinese asylum seekers are allegedly told by migration agents to pose as members of the banned Falun Gong movement or outlawed Christian groups to convince Australian authorities to allow them to stay.

  63. mars08

    Ahhh…. that’s interesting. Based on the asylum seekers actually assessed, those arriving by boat are far more likely to be genuine cases. So, if the government really wanted to discourage non-genuine asylum seekers from flooding the system, they might seriously consider stopping the planes… and use the savings to care for genuine refugees.

    Well, here we are… discussing the problem of Chinese students over-staying their visas. Not something that keeps me up at night. Unlike the cruel and inhumane treatment of innocent, traumatised, powerless, isolated boat arrivals. The men women and children we have locked up in off-shore concentration camps. Our shame.

  64. All's Not Lost

    “Like i said i have worked with these foreign students who fly in and then apply for asylum. Sorry Kaye, i will not say in what capacity i have worked with these people.”

    That’s probably because you give them accommodation and rip them off blind.

  65. Neil of Sydney

    “Well, here we are… discussing the problem of Chinese students over-staying their visas”

    No, they fly in on a valid visa and are legally here. Before their visa expires they apply for asylum.

  66. All's Not Lost

    Neil,

    Facts, stats, info – that kind of thing. Got any? What percentage of Chinese students claim asylum per annum?

  67. Neil of Sydney

    Dunno. But did you read the link i gave. Here it is again

    http://www.voanews.com/content/chinese-reportedly-abusing-australian-asylum-process–142909085/180302.html

    Last year, more than 6,000 asylum seekers arrived in Australia by plane. The largest group came from China, with smaller numbers flying in from India and other Southeast Asian nations.

    Most Chinese asylum seekers enter Australia on student or tourist visas and then apply for refugee status”

    So Chinese students in Australia are the largest group of asylum seekers. But there are 200,000 foreign students in Australia and i have no idea what percentage come from China.

    But i have commented on this topic because it annoys me when people try and make out that asylum seekers who fly in are treated differently to asylum seekers who come by boat. Well they are treated differently because they are legally in the country on a student visa. They could only be locked up if they overstay their visa.

  68. All's Not Lost

    Neil,

    I basically oppose the way you are treated here, but if you’re going to give me Voice of America as a source for meaningful information on this issue I’m going to have say I understand why they think you’re a moron.

  69. Neil of Sydney

    So you disagree with the link? How about this one?

    http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2012/s3454442.htm

    MARK COLVIN: Stop the boats is the catchcry of the asylum seeker debate but the majority are coming into Australia by plane not boat.

    What most Australians don’t realise is that the biggest numbers of those flying are coming from China.

    While some might be legitimate, many are not and they’re being supported by a network of corrupt middlemen from China, to migration agents in Australia…………………..MATTHEW CARNEY: The Chinese enter on valid student, tourist or carer’s visas and once in country apply for Asylum.

    With the help of dubious migration agents they pose as persecuted Falun Gong practitioners or underground Christian worshippers.

    The migration agents give them fake stories to learn and false documents to sign. ”

    I used to think that asylum seekers who fly in by plane were some desperate people seeking help. Most are wealthy students living legally in the country who do not want to go home when they finish their studies.

  70. Kaye Lee

    “The incoming United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights has used his first speech in the job to condemn Australia’s asylum seeker policy.

    Jordan’s Zeid Ra’ad al Hussein, the first Muslim to hold the position, did not mince his words saying Australia’s actions lead to a “chain of human rights violations”.

    “Australia’s policy of off-shore processing for asylum seekers arriving by sea, and its interception and turning back of vessels, is leading to a chain of human rights violations, including arbitrary detention and possible torture following return to home countries,” he said.

    “I must emphasise that the detention of asylum seekers and migrants should only be applied as a last resort, in exceptional circumstances, for the shortest possible duration and according to procedural safeguards.” ”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-08/australia-rejects-un-bosss-asylum-seeker-criticisms/5728918

  71. Neil of Sydney

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/letters/independence-would-make-a-scots-heart-soar/story-fn558imw-1227051811913

    Compassion on refugees

    MUCH of the asylum-seeker issue revolves around numbers. In the never-ending compassion debate, the estimated 1200 deaths at sea always looms large. But it is clogging up of available refugee places that rarely rates a mention.

    For every self-selecting refugee who can afford to pay people-smugglers to arrive by irregular means, thousands more, who do not possess the price of their next meal, languish in refugee camps. Australia has always been one of the most generous countries in accepting genuine refugees, but this capacity was swamped once Labor dismantled the previous Coalition government’s policies.

    This arithmetic has never been given the prominence it is due, even by today’s Coalition politicians, so it is most refreshing that Wyatt Roy is proposing that the refugee quota be increased substantially (“We can have a bigger haven”, 8/9). Now that the boats have been stopped, Australia can afford, on many levels, to increase this quota. That is where true compassion lies.

    Tony Trusler, Hawthorne, Qld

  72. Kaye Lee

    And what about the 30,000 people that are currently awaiting processing Neil? What is your solution for them?

    As at 30 June 2014 there were:

    3,624 people in immigration detention facilities, and 3,007 people in community detention in Australia

    This included 699 children in immigration detention facilities and 1,525 children in community detention

    Location: 2,547 people detained on the mainland (+ 3,007 in community detention) and 1,077 people detained on Christmas Island.

    Length of detention in immigration detention facilities:
    •320 people has been in detention for 0-3 months
    •220 people had been in detention for 3-6 months
    •2,035 people had been in detention for 6-12 months
    •775 people had been in detention for 12-18 months
    •106 people had been in detention for 18 months to 2 years
    •168 people had been in detention for over 2 years.

    How many asylum seekers who arrived by boat have been released from detention on Bridging Visas?

    As at 30 June 2014 there were 24,500 asylum seekers who had arrived by boat (including 1,870 children) who had been permitted to live in the community on Bridging Visas while waiting for their claims for protection to be processed.

  73. mars08

    “It’s abundantly clear that conditions on Nauru are so exceedingly inadequate that the lives of children, babies and pregnant women are seriously at risk. Is the government going to stand by yet again and allow a tragic loss of life to occur?” said Pamela Curr, ASRC Detention Rights Advocate.

    “The government’s deterrence approach is based on creating an environment that puts lives at risk. There is limited screening of communicable diseases, children are not appropriately immunised and they are reportedly at significant risk of sexual assault. These conditions are alarming and must not be ignored. The governments of Australia and Nauru are on notice and children must be immediately removed from this environment,” said Pamela.

    Media Release – Health report on Nauru reveals a profoundly unsafe environment

  74. bloke

    neil – there is nothing ILLEGAL about anyone coming to australia, to apply for asylum, regardless of how they get here.

    if you come by a plane, or by a boat, it is not illegal. i would suggest locking people up indefinitely, having committed no crime, including children, holding them in subhuman conditions, is probably considered illegal in more than one court in this country and others.

  75. Neil of Sydney

    “And what about the 30,000 people that are currently awaiting processing Neil? What is your solution for them?

    Dunno. But we had a solution in 2007 but the Australian people voted against it.

    Since ALP/Greens voted against the Pacific Solution and created all this trouble perhaps each ALP/Green voter could take one asylum seeker and place them in the spare bedroom. Since there are several million ALP/Greens voters that should solve the problem very quickly.

  76. Wayne Turner

    On this issue:-

    Liberal = NO SHAME

    Labor = NO GUTS

  77. Kaye Lee

    “Dunno.”

    And that sums up Neil’s depth of thought on the matter.

    These people should be processed immediately regardless of any stupid deterrence policy. They are human beings who have committed no crime and who are being illegally detained, many in diabolical circumstances, all in fear for their future.

    If that means slowing immigration in other areas, so be it. Bottling people up in other countries is NO solution – it is deliberately ignoring a global problem.

    The obvious long term goal would be to improve the standard of living in source countries by increasing foreign aid, taking action on climate change, and stopping wars and human rights abuses.

    Instead this government has slashed foreign aid, stopped action on climate change, armed human rights abusers, and looks like getting into a war or two.

    In the short term we should establish processing centres in Indonesia and Malaysia and India and increase our humanitarian intake to 50,000.

    Instead this government cut the humanitarian intake from 20,000 to 13,000.

    And we should stop fools from completely obfuscating the debate with stupid slogans and ridiculous blame games that do nothing to help.

    How come Morrison and Abbott kept a billboard and spoke every day in Parliament about asylum seeker arrivals if that was an issue of national security? How come they will happily announce and film all anti-terror measures but they refuse oversight of their actions against asylum seekers? Is it ok to inform terrorists of what you are doing?

    Unless you have something to offer about our current situation Neil, please don’t bother us with yet another Howard rerun because you “dunno” anything about the wider problem of refugees, nor do you have anything to offer. Your mind-numbing repetition will be deleted in future. if you have something new to offer I will consider it.

  78. bloke

    as neil seems to think the alp/greens voting against the pacific solution is what created all this “trouble”.. ie; 50 million people looking for refuge.. i would add to waynes comment, on this issue:-

    Neil of Sydney = NO CLUE

  79. stephentardrew

    Kaye I personally think this should be the final say. The guy drives me nuts. Irrational pseudo rational thinkers are impossible to deal with when they are convinced their ignorance is fact. No satisfactory outcome is possible.

  80. Wayne Turner

    Indeed – Sad when so called leaders (where are they from the major parties?),encourage people’s ignorance on this issue (Either repeating the ignorant statements and/or NOT challenging them) instead of pointing out the real facts.

    Also,totally agree Kaye.

    http://www.ajustaustralia.com/info/mythsfacts.php

  81. Anne Byam

    Well said Kaye … ( 7.48 am and 11.42 am comments ).

    An Abbott mantra from time to time has been ” well, we’ve stopped the boats” … or words to that effect. It’s hinted at often enough, and uttered outright.

    A horrid thought has occurred to me, and no doubt to many many others – that the keeping of asylum seekers in inhumane and dangerous conditions, in different locations – disenfranchised people who have not done anything wrong, of if they have – have not faced due process in a court of law … IS being used as a deterrent to ‘stop the boats’. Quite DELIBERATELY.

    They are being kept as an example as to ‘what wlll happen to you if you try to come here’.

    There is no way that this kind of news does NOT get out and BACK to people in other countries.

    ” Bush telegraph ” knows no boundaries.

    And it seems to have worked. The boats are much reduced – compared to several years back. Oh wot joy, for Abbott and in particular his ultra-evil Party compatriat – Morrison.

    I so hope the highest court in our Land, and highest authority globally, will take these heinous acts and scrutinise them … ultimately to charge this Government, and specific members in it, with acts of cruelty, inhumanitarianism, lack of responsibility, and anything else they can throw at them.

    And that those responsible at this time, are dispensed with accordingly.

  82. trevor

    Neil of Sydney.. One champion Turd Polisher from Abbotts rabble.

  83. Neil of Sydney

    “They are being kept as an example as to ‘what wlll happen to you if you try to come here’. ”

    That was actually the point of Gillards Malaysian Solution which so many people here agree with.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/8676847/Australia-uses-YouTube-to-scare-off-asylum-seekers.html

    The Australian government plans to film asylum seekers being flown out of the country to Malaysia and post the footage on YouTube in an attempt to deter more from taking the perilous journey from Indonesia to Christmas Island. ……………Chris Bowen, the immigration minister, said posting the videos online would send a powerful message to people-smugglers and their customers that if they attempt the voyage to Australia they will end up in Malaysia. “

  84. choppa

    Hang on you missed the best bits – when labor had open immigration – there were literally 10 times more deaths. What we’ve become is a nation who is stopping those from putting their lives in danger to take a back door entrance to immigration – and it’s working just as it was designed…and that deserves nothing but praise.

    In other news on refugees – looks like the stories today about Mohammad Ali Baryalei really shows we are headed in the right direction under the libs.

  85. Kaye Lee

    choppa and Neil both choose to ignore the 30,000 people who are being currently tormented by this and the previous government. Neither of them have any regard for refugees as people…they are purely point scorers. What a sorry depth we have sunk to that people like neil and choppa find this all a political game and what a disgusting legacy for a government to leave…unleashing and empowering the bigots.

  86. Leah mckenzie

    Ah Neil of Sydney. Thank you 🙂

  87. Pingback: Media reports on asylum seekers | 6S SUPERSTARS

  88. Bob

    Amidst all the accusations and broader moralising it’s worth noting this anecdote. An Australian observer told me that the reality is the inmates and locals on Manus loathe each other. The dead man, Reza Berati, is alleged to have stood at the facility fence line on a number of occasions and verbally abused and threatened the local inhabitants passing by. When the riots and violence occurred, the locals were acutely aware of a number of inmates who had abused and made threats at them from the facility’s fence line, and it is a reasonable assumption that they chose to identify and seek to redress the aggression shown to them by individuals like Berati. This all occurred in an Australian immigration facility, outsourced to Manus Island, so the overarching state responsibility is the federal governments, however the micro narrative is one off a minority of aggressive unpleasant individuals in custody who baited the Manus locals.

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