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My kids are ok, yours can go beg.

When I hear Joe Hockey say, with trembling lip, that he refuses to saddle his children with the nation’s debt, my hypocrisy radar maxes out.

For starters, Joe Hockey’s children will never have to struggle. His wife is a very wealthy woman and they have substantial investments.

Secondly, this talk of our children being saddled with our debt is an obvious advertising strategy that the Coalition has adopted. Whenever children are mentioned we get protective so it is a deliberate attempt to play on the heartstrings of families.

The trouble is that this statement bears no scrutiny.

If we are really concerned about our children we would be taking urgent action on climate change. Putting that off for our kids to have to deal with sometime in the future is criminal neglect.

We would also be striving to make our society an even better one than the one we inherited. We grew up with free education and universal health care. We should not be going backwards in these most crucial areas. Will our contribution to our children’s future be to say sorry, you may not enjoy the benefits that we did?

We fought for workplace entitlements like minimum wages and penalty rates. Are we to say to our kids that your labour is worth less?

We have told our young people that they must “earn or learn”. I am sure that every kid, and every family, would prefer that situation, but all I see is another three word slogan. There is no plan for jobs. Rather than increasing apprenticeships, they are closing trade training centres and increasing 457 visas. They are making university education unaffordable – their justification being that no-one has to pay up front. So apparently it is alright to saddle our children with huge personal debt, just as long as Tony and Joe can say look, no deficit.

With no old school tie network of daddy’s friends to give you a job, it can be very hard for young people with no experience to enter the workforce. The soul destroying exercise of applying for countless jobs and being rejected every time can be heartbreaking. Is it any wonder that some just give up looking or turn to substance abuse as their sense of self worth takes a hammering?

What is to become of these kids as we cut off any support to them for 6 months of the year? Why are we abandoning them when they are just starting out on life’s road and need our help most?

We have evolved into a nation where someone’s worth is measured by their wealth, where there are no excuses tolerated. If you aren’t wealthy you just aren’t trying. What chance do our kids have to enter this merry-go-round?

A national snapshot of rental affordability in Australia has found there are minuscule and in some cases, zero, levels of affordable housing for people on low incomes, with welfare advocates saying some people will be forced to go without food to afford their accommodation.

The report, prepared by Anglicare Australia, found single Australians on government payments are “seriously disadvantaged” in the housing market, with less than 1 per cent of properties examined deemed suitable.

Single people with no children living on the minimum wage were slightly better off, with 4 per cent of listed properties found suitable, according to the study.

The study defined a “suitable” rental as one that took up less than 30 per cent of the household’s income.

It also found that couples with two children on the minimum wage had access to 12 per cent of properties surveyed, while just 1.4 per cent of properties were suitable for couples with two children on Newstart.

On the snapshot day, just 3.6 per cent of properties were found suitable for age pensioners.

Anglicare Australia executive director Kasy Chambers said the lack of affordable housing damaged the lives of millions of ordinary Australians.

“Limited supply does more than just drive up the price of housing. It forces those on lower incomes to spend more on rent than they can afford; compels them to forgo food and other necessities and drives them further away from social and economic participation.”

A coalition of peak housing bodies – including Homelessness Australia and the Community Housing Federation of Australia called on Kevin Andrews to make affordable housing a priority. His response was that it is a state issue, and the federal government was “encouraging and supporting” states to streamline their planning and development processes, and review taxes and charges levied at home construction and purchases.

In other words, he couldn’t give a damn that his government’s negative gearing policy has made it impossible for many young people to enter the housing market.

A quarter of Australian properties are being bought for investment rather than to live in.

Over the last four years the number of investment property loans in Australia has grown by 37% compared to an increase of only 4% in the number of owner occupied loans, new data from Roy Morgan Research shows.

The growth in investment property loans over the last four years has come predominantly from the 35 to 64 age groups which account for 78% of the increase.

The study, which surveyed 45,455 Australians, showed while the proportion of over-50’s with an owner-occupied home loan has increased, the proportion of under-35’s with owner-occupied home loans decreased.

Roy Morgan communications director Norman Morris believes government policy is having an impact on loan types.

“Younger Australians may continue to find it difficult to enter the property market either for investment or owner-occupied because for both types they are competing with more cashed-up older property buyers.”

There are currently 105,237 people in Australia who are homeless. That means that on any given night, 1 in 200 people in Australia have nowhere to sleep. While Malcolm Turnbull joins the CEO sleepout in his comfortable warm swag, his government cut $44 million from funding for the National Partnership Agreement on Homelessness. This money was to be spent on capital works building shelters for homeless people and providing affordable housing for women and children.

There has been an upsurge of photos of Coalition MPs with charity groups with politicians exhorting us to donate more. Someone needs to remind this government that the money they are spending is ours and I would much prefer to be looking after the vulnerable in our society and around the world than subsidising corporate greed and supporting armaments manufacturers.


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  1. Social Worker

    Kaye, thank you for the figures on homelessness and the article. It is apparent that politicians are not there for the good of the country but there for the good of themselves. Social justice and ethics have flown out the door and corruption has hit al all time high. Social policy is created from economic policy. I would have imagined that economic policy would have been based upon global frameworks of what is working successfully. This is not the case. I think they need to go back to university to learn what evidence-based means. Neoliberalism is entrenched and the only thing we can do is to educate the masses.

    Social worker.

  2. DanDark

    Too late social worker
    The darkness has dropped on this country years ago, and Kaye’s pic tells us that
    RIP Australia……..

  3. Carol Taylor

    Surely in a civilised society such things as food and shelter for those such as the homeless, we as a society have the responsibility for the provision of these. Such basic subsistence should not be almost entirely reliant on charitable institutions (such as the slums of Manhattan), that is unless we want our cities and towns to resemble these slums.

    Well known by organisations who work in the field is that many women and their children have only 2 options, to stay in violence, abusive relationships or sleep in the streets. Many women flee not only for their own lives but for fear of the lives of their children. Attempts to find a place in a women’s refuge is met with the response such as: come back in about 2 weeks or we have room for 2 children but not for 3. This is not a matter of being heartless but simply because there are no many people and so few resources. And all the while such charities are further deprived of funding, and pollies have their photo ops.

  4. Social Worker

    We have been in dark many times before, maybe not so explicitly entrenched. I believe in humanity otherwise I wouldn’t be doing what I am doing. I believe if people are given the opportunity then things can change.

    The issue is, people have been purposely (even though it is their choice), distracted with life, reality TV and so forth. Keep them busy and they won’t question. It only takes a minority to wake up the masses. What is lacking is widespread education on the power of the people….where is John to sing this for us…..

    Time is running out. We all have a choice.

  5. Carol Taylor

    DanDark, I believe that the Abbott government has pushed Australia to the limit. Previously many took it for granted that ‘somehow’ such people were being cared for. Now through this government’s greed, we realise that they are not. This is the responsibility of all of us, and an especial responsibility is to show this government that we will not accept their standards.

  6. Kaye Lee

  7. Matters Not

    It’s apparent that Abbott et al are taking us down the US road to their view of social and economic ‘utopia’. Expect greater efforts to foster a ‘donating’ culture. Perhaps we might encourage more ‘tipping’ also which is also big in the US.

    If people would ‘tip’ more then we could lower the hourly rate of A$16.87 to the US Federal rate of US$7.25 an hour. With this lower rate we would head towards full employment and everyone would be happy.

    Of course what I say above is complete bull sh@t. Check this article out.

  8. DanDark

    Social workers get paid how much?
    They learn out of books, it’s not a voluntary thing
    It’s not true charity, you are getting something back, money, to help people without money to do what,learn how to beg?
    Ironic really, like the job agencies, make a shit load of money, pushing people from one cue to another
    Yeah yeah that’s truly helping humanity, money money money it’s all about money, except for people who need it 🙂

  9. Social Worker

    Well said Carol. “This is the responsibility of all of us.”

    I think we need to remind the government that they are working for us. They are paid my our taxes. Joe Hockey still to this day, I don’t believe that he believes 100% in what he is saying. He has been backed into a corner. His choice of course. There is that word again, choices.

    Neoliberalism pushes society into relying on charities and communities and taking the responsibility away from government. I am finding that most LIberal voters are either independently wealthy or self funded retirees. I rest my case.

    I also believe that if we pointed out to the masses exactly what Neoliberalism stands for, what their ideologies and philosophies are then people may think twice. Most vote for the person or the policies (or lack there of). Education is the key.

  10. Social Worker

    Excuse me Dan Dark. This is not a personal slinging match so don’t go down that path. I am a volunteer also. I volunteer with youth and crisis. Yes, we do have a degree but we learn from others, on the job and from our clients.

    We are one of the lowest paid groups in society. I hate to tell you but we need to pay bills too. We have kids to feed, clothe and educate. If I would I would volunteer on a full time basis if I could and if I was independently wealthy. But guess what, I have been where these people have been, so I know what the story is.

    Do you know what a social worker is? Do you now what a social worker does?

  11. Kaye Lee

    Social Worker,

    That is what is so wonderful about sites like this one. Michael and Carol have given us a platform to share knowledge. I learn a great deal from the articles and comments here and the links others provide. I agree, it is all about education. Aussies don’t actually like being bullshitted to and taken for mugs. People need to hear the truth rather than Gina’s game plan. Here we go again with develop the North. Wait for the lower tax zone slipped in under the fuss about dams and crops that won’t work.

  12. Stef

    Hi Miglo, I don’t think anyone has been able to put it more accurately that what you have done. Bravo! It seems as though, those with the ‘haves’ are deliberately imposing their ideology, with the ‘have-nots’ having to accept that situation being dictated to them. It’s oh so heartless and totally morally reprehensible for them to use this in the interests of our children. It’s their selfishness and greed which has put us in this mess without them taking responsibility. Hypocritical and damn tragic. Makes me infuriated sometimes when they produce the remedy for what they have created.

  13. DanDark

    Yeah I do, and you keep going social worker,
    I am off this site
    Bye all 🙂

  14. Letitia McQuade

    fantastic piece, and sobering reading.

    I suspect the banks have a lot to do with pumping up housing prices (and that high housing prices have a lot to do with our bank’s recent record profits).

    don’t know the answer, but beating up the poor doesn’t seem to be working…

  15. Stef

    Sorry Kaye.. apologies for typo.

    Great article.

  16. Social Worker

    Thanks for that great clip Kaye, brightened up my day!

    By the way, for those who don’t understand. Social workers are advocates for those without a voice. Social Workers do not work in front line employment agencies. Speak to the managers of the employment agencies, they really do feel the pain and are so bounded with lack of funds and resources.

    Social workers do the “shitty jobs” that most people wouldn’t dream about. We have one of the highest burn out rates. Why because we give our all to our clients. We are so frustrated at what we can’t do.

    In the 70’s those that were in front line protesting were – social workers.

    Thank you again Kaye for great writing. Please keep it up.

  17. Mike Wilkinson

    Great analysis Kaye Lee. I too believe that humanity is basically good, but it is becoming more difficult to believe day by day. This government has promoted and encouraged a dog eat dog, everyman for himself and devil take the hindmost attitude in our society. Greed is good, empathy is a weakness. I have never run across a scene like the one you have pictured, but if I did, I would empty my wallet for them. I’m not rich, far from it, but who could look at that little family and not feel compassion, not feel wracked with guilt that, tonight I will sleep in a warm bed with food in my belly. It is heart breaking that in a country as rich as this people are forced onto the streets, perhaps our wealth is the reason that this happens. Our greed for more of everything blinds us to those who are being ground under the heel of capitalist ideology.
    We need a return to an older style of politician, those who didn’t go into politics for money, fame or networking opportunities, but to raise up the less fortunate.
    I would suggest that the only way to prevent political careerism is to cap the number of terms someone may “serve”. Two terms ought to be sufficient for someone to make a difference. Then back out into the real world you go, making way for fresh faces and new ideas about how to tackle problems.

  18. Matters Not

    Wait for the lower tax zone slipped in under the fuss about dams and crops that won’t work.

    If there is to be a ‘lower tax zone’ (under current constitutional arrangements) it can only happen in the Northern Territory which is under control of the Feds – not in Western Australia and Queensland.

    As for more dams and the like, that ‘dream’ only comes from those who haven’t lived there. Can’t do much with leached soils that are inundated in the ‘wet’ and parched in the ‘dry’.

  19. Ishe Boge

    This government is all about privatizing everything. No-one can afford to have a home life anymore, let alone a home. I suspect the next roles suitable for privatization will be those of ‘mum’ and ‘dad’. Already the role of ‘mum’ is worth half of a woman’s take home pay for a prescribed period only. Priceless. Who are these people?? :/

  20. DanDark

    “Clients” NO social worker they are people, humans, with feelings. They are not a commodity
    Clients dehumanising the ones you claim to be helping
    Gov words : clients, taken up by the front line of social workers
    Clients, not humans, clients, transferees, etc etc etc it’s working a treat on you social worker

    Now I am off this site 🙂

  21. Kaye Lee

    Matters Not,

    “ANDEV’s scenario for the North of Australia looks like this: policy settings that allow for an major expansion in Foreign Direct Investment, tax incentivized infrastructure bonds, Federal Government tax incentives (lower personal tax or tax rebates, no payroll tax, no FBT, no stamp duty), sensible regulation all administered locally in a one stop shop set up in a Special Economic Zone Agency that has a sunset clause in it in selected North cities, infrastructure bonds with tax incentives, increased land supply for housing and industry.”

  22. Kaye Lee

    Interestingly, Gina’s group say “This action is vital for our children and grand children. ”

    Previous reports, such as one completed by the Northern Land and Water Taskforce in 2010, have found that at least some proposed northern dams aren’t feasible.

    Mr Joyce rejects that, however.

    “I disagree with some of the issues that CSIRO have reported in the past, that you couldn’t have any more irrigation capacity, because it was manipulated by the [then Labor] government in such a way as the report was confounded.

    “It had to come out with that sort of recommendation because the government put so many caveats on things that you weren’t allowed to do,” he said.

    And of course, the IPA

    Build them now


  23. Ishe Boge

    If we are really concerned about our children we would be taking urgent action on climate change. Putting that off for our kids to have to deal with sometime in the future is criminal neglect.

    Kaye Lee, the way this government is going, the only viable jobs for the future will be hand pollinating primary farm produce, probably grown under cover. No qualifications required, leaving University placements free for overseas paying students ….

  24. Kaye Lee

    That or aged care…qualifications undesirable because we will only pay a pittance and you can’t call the doctor every time they get sick or need another script. Get em to walk off those broken hips. But whatever you do, don’t offer terminal patients any chance of voluntary euthanasia because God says no apparently. If, however, you let your pet suffer, we will fine you.

  25. Kaye Lee

    Oh geeze,

    Tony Abbott didn’t have time to meet with Christine Lagarde but he squeezed in a dinner with Rupert Murdoch.

  26. Michael Taylor

    Thanks Stef, but Kaye wrote this piece.

    I’m not quite up to that standard. 🙁

  27. Michael Taylor

    And Jeb Bush too, apparently Kaye. Makes you wonder.

  28. Lee

    Pfft… the LNP would eat their young. They don’t care about their kids inheriting a decimated environment and all the problems associated with climate change.

  29. Kaye Lee

    “The Australian Council of Social Service is concerned that the Abbott government is seeking to gag the welfare sector after comments from Immigration Minister Scott Morrison that government funding should not be used to support advocacy groups.

    Two weeks after the budget the Mr Morrison withdrew funding for the Refugee Council of Australia, which had been allocated in the budget papers, saying he and the government did not believe that “taxpayer funding should be there to support what is effectively an advocacy group”.
    The Australian Youth Affairs Council, the Alcohol and Drug Council of Australia, the National Congress of Australia’s First Peoples and National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services have also been defunded.
    Advisory groups axed include the Social Inclusion Board, the National Housing Supply Council, the Prime Minister’s Council on Homelessness, the National Policy Commission on Indigenous Housing, the National Children and Family Roundtable, the Advisory Panel on Positive Ageing, and the Immigration Health Advisory Group.
    In their place are a smaller number of new advisory groups dominated by business such as the Prime Minister’s Business Advisory Council, the Australian Treasury Advisory Council and the Prime Minister’s Community Business Partnership.”

    Read more:

  30. Lee

    “The study defined a “suitable” rental as one that took up less than 30 per cent of the household’s income.”

    That’s only 1 factor to examine – and I cannot remember when i paid less than 30% of my income in rent. If you look at suitable landlords, i.e. ones that are not slum lords and who are likely to repair problems promptly, there are less suitable properties available. If you have pets, your options are even more limited. As a single person with dogs, I could not rent a house being managed by an agent. Due to the housing shortage they would only rent houses to families. Most units do not allow pets unless they live in a small cage or an aquarium.

  31. Kaye Lee

    Australia and Canada have invited the UK to join an alliance of ‘like-minded’ nations to limit action on climate change.

    The two countries have each rolled back green policies in recent months, and want others to join them to resist a legally-binding international deal on carbon emissions.

    Tony Abbott, Australia’s prime minister, called for limited action on climate change that would not ‘clobber the economy’.

    He is seeking to form a conservative alliance that aims to undermine what he calls a ‘left-liberal’ push by US President Barack Obama to ramp up green taxes.

    Tony Abbott said efforts are underway to form a new ‘centre-right’ alliance including Britain, as well as India and New Zealand.

    The British Government last night distanced itself from the Canadian-Australian alliance, insisting it had not been approached and was, in fact, ‘leading from the front’ on climate change.

    Read more:

  32. Social Worker

    Maybe we should be looking closer at Agenda 21?

  33. Judith

    Joe hockey seems to think that it’s better to pay off the mortgage sooner rather than later, even if it means we go hungry, because we can eat when the debt is cleared. Sound a bit like the moneylenders of old – taking their pound of flesh…

  34. randalstella

    The ‘debt crisis’ is these monsters’ Reichstag fire.

  35. Stephen Tardrew

    Kaye we well and truly know where we stand now and so we are left with the job of accumulating facts and then one mother of a fight to return to social justice. In fact, as I know you are aware, all services have always been underfunded and inadequate so what we have is a reduction in already inadequate services for all low income and poor people. We have always had to turn away people and provides them with only temporary assistance however now things ares substantially worse due to this immoral government. Dan Dark there is often no place to send people when all refuges and medium term accommodation is full. Social workers cannot create the resources necessary to fulfill the needs of their clients (departments throughout the country now call them consumers a term I would never use). There are great social workers and slack ones as in any filed. It is not helpful to tar all social workers with the same brush. They often struggle to meet the demands of mental heal and health net alone do outreach. Under resourcing leads to disillusionment and detachment because workers are often caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. Deinstitutionalization was the binging of the end for adequate accommodation for those with mental heal issues. If you do not rate on there axes of DSM criteria you are classified as borderline and will receive little help.
    The whole system is a dysfunctional nightmare so you need to target the pollies and bureaucrats who develop inadequate policies.
    There are strict guidelines and performance criteria that must be met and they often play against the needs of clients. Generally welfare workers put in a lot of voluntary time. In my last job with service veterans I did call outs for free to save the organization cash which was a substantial amount. The call outs were frequent and often included violence and drug abuse. Try to be a little understanding of workers in the sector.

  36. Florence nee Fedup

    Back in the dark ages where Abbott seems to reside and wants to take us back to, one could have suspicions about the worth of social workers, who came from the upper echelons of society. Some thong nice to do, before getting married.

    Today, that is far from true. Social and welfare workers come from all strata of society.,

    Yes, even some enter the field as mature age students, and a lifetime of experience.

    The education of social workers and others is wide ranging,

  37. DanDark

    Stephen T I don’t give too hoots what you think about me
    You do not know me, you are a male, so, you don’t know everything
    You are a man, a man, a man a man , a man just like the gov
    So on that note don’t respond,cos I won’t be reading it
    It’s a MANS world yep yep yep 🙂
    And man will be first to go when humanity collapse, not woman 🙂 it’s called cloning,

  38. leighton8

    Yes …. noticed that Abbott found the time to check in with his “masters” in the U.S. Rupert Murdoch and one of the Bushes …. again, things with this government are clear as day IF only enough of the misguided people who have chosen to support them blindly can only choose to see …..

  39. Stephen Tardrew


    I have no negative opinion about you at all I was simply posting a response. I have worked in DV, youth, families and drug and alcohol as well so I do have a certain amount of experience.

  40. Social Worker

    The Legislation instigated by government determines what will and won’t be. Those working in the welfare sector from Mental health to legal advocacy work have to work within the guidelines of the state legislation and the organisation they work for. In the case of SW’s they also work within the Code of Ethics passed down by the AASW. Then they have their own morals to deal with when they don’t agree with what they might have to do.

    DanDark you seem a little peeved. There are good and bad in all, right across the board.

    The problem with social media it becomes personal. The initial posting by Kaye was well presented. Then each and every person has posted some really good comments which is great to see. Then it started to become a little nasty which is the problem with social media, we don’t have body language which is 85% of our communication.

    Stephen was very true in what he is saying. I have spoken with those in crisis that have contemplated breaking the law so they can be admitted to hospital for help. The system was broken and now it is going into such a state of crisis.

    NSW they have closing or have closed 20 womens refuge centres. Where are these women and children to go to escape Domestic violence? These are just the tip of the iceberg.

    No one is in here to fight or get nasty. We are all on the same page. We all care. It sounds DanDark that you may have been subject to a bad situation and treated badly and it is understandable that may have a ‘chip on your shoulder’ This is pure assumption of cause.

    As a carer myself I have been in arguments with Dept of Human Services many a time. But, I understand these people are limited in what they can do. They are under strict instructions as to what they can and can’t do. The social workers are behind the scenes trying to case manage thousands of clients, who they love helping with limited resources. The employment agencies that take on customers, clients or whatever we call them, (this is not the issue) are also very frustrated with lack of resources. The latest one “work for the dole” or Mutual Obligation. I was only speaking with a regional manager the other day and across the board it does not work. There is not the staff, the employers are not interested in taking on those on welfare because they know they will be short lived. It simply does not work.

    The interesting thing is that Abbott himself said economics bores him. He is not interested in the environment nor social policy, so may I ask “what is he interested in?” This is Abbotts education: “Prior to entering Parliament, he studied for a Bachelor of Economics and a Bachelor of Laws at the University of Sydney, and later for a Master of Arts in Philosophy, Politics and Economics as a Rhodes Scholar at The Queen’s College, Oxford.” (Wiki)

    I am shocked that someone with this behind them talks and thinks like he does. There is something missing.


  41. Matters Not

    am shocked that someone with this behind them talks and thinks like he does. There is something missing

    Are you aware he suffers from dementia pugilistica. And:

    The transcript, released by The Queen’s College, Oxford, shows Mr Abbott did most poorly in the subject “General philosophy from Descartes to present day”, for which he received the mark CCB.

    In “Theory of politics”, a subject clearly closer to his later interests, the enthusiastic pugilist and arch monarchist registered a B++.

    In “Moral and political philosophy”, Mr Abbott scored a BBC.

    The future prime minister completed the course and was placed in the “second class” of the “Final Honour School of Philosophy, Politics and Economics (PPE)”. ….

    Mr Abbott of course was busy doing other things as well while at Oxford, not least, obtaining a boxing “blue” for his efforts in the ring.

    Read more:

  42. Danielle

    Voters need to quickly realise that THIS is what the North Shore Libs have believed in FOR YEARS. Now that they have power they will exploit it to THE HILT. Wake up Australia and don’t let these privileged arsehats DESTROY OUR SOCIETY. THEY DON’T CARE. They think EVERYBODY in Australia lives like they do on the North Shore! And if you don’t? Well in their eyes, you just haven’t tried hard enough and it’s ALL I repeat ALL YOUR OWN FAULT!!

  43. kaz

    I know of a few regional towns that have over 100 vacant houses and the weekly rent is well below any of the capital cities, These towns have banks, schools, shops etc …

  44. Mick

    I remember when I was a child the stereotypical homeless person was “A Drunk” who would methylated spirits with a mixer of some sort. IE: someone who lost their way with the bottle. Then as time moved on you started to see more people who had lost their way to drugs. Then when governments started to slash mental health care the problem started to flow onto the streets. During all this time most of us could probably think “Well that isn’t going to happen to me?”

    Now in recent years there appears a new class of homeless person who had a job, may have had a mortgage, payed their bills, not into substance abuse etc. There are also groups with children living on the streets. Imagine that happening? Welcome to Australia – The land of a fair go?????????

    Would any of Abbott’s ring wing extremists wish to comment? Then again didn’t Abbott state that they chose to be homeless?

  45. Kaye Lee

    Federal Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations, Tony Abbott:

    “But we can’t abolish poverty because poverty in part is a function of individual behaviour. We can’t stop people drinking. We can’t stop people gambling. We can’t stop people having substance problems. We can’t stop people from making mistakes that cause them to be less well-off than they might otherwise be”

  46. Kaye Lee

    Interesting essay comparing the Roman elite’s view of poverty with Tony Abbott’s

    “Rather than focusing on systemic inequalities at a structural level, Cicero and Abbott both, in their own way, depict poverty as a personal choice and thus also as a moral reflection of character. As an accusation, poverty holds great discursive force in both ancient Rome and contemporary Australia. People who are branded ‘poor’ are marginalised and held responsible for their own poverty. Poverty thereby becomes a mechanism of marginalisation in two vastly different societies.”

  47. Bacchus

    Tony Abbott said efforts are underway to form a new ‘centre-right’ alliance including Britain, as well as India and New Zealand.

    But from John key we have:

    John Key denies joining ‘flat earth society’

    The Prime Minister denies any suggestion that his government’s joined a handful of countries trying to block global action on climate change.

    It’s being reported across the Tasman that Australian Prime Minister, Tony Abbott, is building an alliance with countries like Canada and New Zealand in order to dismantle moves to introduce a price on carbon emissions and undermine recent efforts by United States President, Barack Obama, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

    A spokeswoman for Mr Key has told One News, “the Prime Minister has not talked to Tony Abbott on this matter.”

    The statement adds: “This Government takes climate change seriously. That is why we were one of the first countries to introduce a comprehensive emissions trading scheme and why we’re actively involved in international climate change efforts.”

    John Key is to meet US President Obama next week and climate change is one of the topics they are expected to discuss.

    Oh dear 😉

  48. Kaye Lee

    So that leaves India. he was relying on their need for our coal but the last I heard, our coal costs too much for them. They would have to slash production/delivery costs to make it viable.

  49. Kaye Lee

    India aims to reduce carbon emissions by 20-25% of 2005 intensity by 2020.

    India’s renewable energy ambitions are driven both by the need to reduce carbon emissions and by falling renewable energy prices (relative to increasing coal prices).

    Currently India has four renewable energy schemes. They are:

    •Renewable Mix Target (Electricity)

    •Renewable Capacity Target

    •Renewable Portfolio Standard (PAT Scheme)

    •Jawaharlal Nehru National Solar Mission

    The Renewable Mix Target sets a target of 15% of India’s total electricity generation by 2020. This target ignores large-scale hydroelectricity, but with renewable energy generation currently at 12% India is in a good starting position.

  50. Anna Campbell

    Kaz, I too know of many country and regional towns where many houses are vacant and rents are below city rates. Yes they have banks and shops and if you are lucky a school or hospital of sorts but you will often find them struggling or empty because the economic rationalist governments (eg.Jeff Kennett) have gutted the majority of services and infrastructure out of these towns. Residents often have to travel long distances for basic supplies like fuel, a GP visit or a haircut. You may be able to buy in the town but you will pay a high additional price for freight. So your cheap housing becomes expensive and beyond the reach of welfare recipients and other low income earners. Good luck to these people too who may hope to find employment because these opportunities are few and far between. Real estate agents have been conning people into moving to our nearest town for years and when they can no longer afford or finally come to realise that they have been misled they return to the city demoralised, disappointed and in debt because that same real estate agent bought their house back (at a loss) to sell to some other poor goose.

  51. John Watson

    One particular statement in the article, I will have to disagree with strongly is, “There is no plan for jobs.”, Our Beloved Leader, when commenting on the massive loss of jobs that will occur with the demise of the Australian car and associated industries said, “as one door shuts, another door will open”. What a fantastic plan to ensure jobs growth. Why didn’t someone think of it before?

  52. Roslyn Ross

    The most heartening thing about the Abbott Budget and its punitive measures against Australians who are the most in need, has been the response of the Australian public which augurs well for the future of the country as a nation which has integrity, standards, common sense and compassion. More than 80% of Australians feel that the Budget is not only unfair to those it has targeted but that it is bad for the nation.

    If nothing else the Abbott Government has acted as a mirror to reflect back what we do not want and that is all to the good. This is however just the beginning. As someone else said and probably better and I paraphrase, a nation is as civilized as how it treats its needy!

    The current Government also acts as a mirror for the Liberals and their coalition partners in terms of who they want to be. There will always be extremists in any political party but the public reaction to the excesses and stupidities of Labor and now to the excesses and stupidity of the Liberal Coalition must, or should be making them all think twice.

  53. Peta

    For anyone dependant on any form of social security payment, it is most definitely difficult to rent inexpensive housing.

    I became a supporting parent to a 16 yr old 2 years ago unexpectedly. (obviously that’s not something one plans on when in love and decide to live together and have children!)

    After having looked through all the rental properties on, I came to the conclusion that my only option was to move to a cheaper / more remote area. Most of the affordable housing was in areas I would not like to raise my child.

    I decided a remote rural town would be a lovely place for my 16yr old daughter to grow up and less changes of drug and alcohol abuse. We drove from Brisbane to Glen Innes to “check it out “. Went to the school and registered to start the next term……. Went home and packed.

    I found a lovely little 3 bedroom cottage for $200 a week, close to town, which would allow me to keep my cats.
    Unheard of anywhere near Brisbane!

    Unfortunately, my daughter hated school, and left.
    I got a great part time job at Woollies, and in time, got my daughter one also.
    Job prospects aren’t good! There are only three large companies here. All the rest are boutique style.
    There are 5 pubs……but she’s too young to work there. Not that I’d want her to anyway.
    There is NOTHING for Kids/young adults to do here! The government deems it unnecessary for rural areas. Maybe they’re all supposed to be at home helping on the farm.

    Next step….. Boredom, sex, drugs and alcohol!

  54. Gary Armstrong

    Well said Kaye Lee, the LNP government should hang their heads in shame. One of the best articles I have read in some time on the ‘state of the nation’.

  55. Winifred Jeavons

    The churches in Australia are often struggling to keep their heads above water, yet we give to alleviate poverty here and in 3rd world countries, we are concerned about refugees, about climate change and degradation of the earth, called God’s creation( even if not as imagined by Creationists ) We support initiatives for world peace. It appears that this government wants us to do much more, in supporting the army of destitute it is bent on creating while the earth is increasingly polluted and degraded . Those politicians who claim to be practicing Christians need to go back to Kindergarten to learn WHAT it is they are supposed to practice then help us do the REAL heavy lifting. A government ,like a church, should be there for those most vulnerable, not just run around looking for the money. More serving, less judging and pontificating.Any real church ,and there are many, would be ashamed to be claimed by this thieving bunch.

  56. Stephen

    Thanks to the author for pointing out what a poor job the ALP did in regards to this issue using figures taken from 2011 when the ALP had been in power for fours years. You’ll find that the situation worsened since the previous census in 2006. Before anybody mentions the GFC all I keep reading on here is how the ALP shielded us through the GFC so I guess that can’t have anything to do with it. It’s all of about creating the anti-Liberal vibe though.

    Peta, I find your attitude pretty depressing. I have lived in rural towns with between 500 and 1000 people (certainly not big enough for a woolies) and there is always plenty to do. You only get out of small rural towns what you are prepared to put in. Instead of expecting the government to entertain you, get involved in the community and have a crack. Yours is a lazy line of thinking that will lead to a life of sex, alcohol and drugs but that will be yours and your daughters choices and nothing to do with the government. Worst comes to worst go to the library and get a book or go for a walk. The nothing to do comment is one I would
    expect from a thirteen year old with no drive or imagination. You’ve taken the hard/extremely brave step to move to a rural town, the next step is so much easier.

    Lastly, hi to DanDark. We all know you’re still reading. That anti-man rant was something else.

  57. Mandul

    I have been homeless with a family of 4 children. The last bit of money we got at the time we spent on a tent, a storage shed for our belongings and rented a powered tent site until the owner of the caravan park found out that we did indeed had nowhere else to go he kicked us out.

    We then contacted other caravan parks and portrayed ourselves as tourists and booked multiple caravan parks ahead. Both myself and my partner where unemployed. I suffer from a mental health condition and my partner was supporting me and looking after the 4 kids. Renting cabins in a caravan park as tourists with 4 kids was incredibly expensive at $510 a week with little to no assistance for food or rent we lived off a lot of bread and chicken legs.

    The department of housing would not look at our situation as needing any urgent assistance and I quote “Just because your homeless doesn’t qualify you for priority imagine how big lists would be”. With support of services and some very wonderful people we ended acquiring housing through the department that was 6 years ago. That was only granted on the grounds our two eldest children had additional needs if it were not for that we would have left there.

    The strange thing was though when we received our housing we got wind at that stage that the dept of housing was moving away from supporting families and concentrating on elderly and mental health. Although elderly and mental are most certainly high risk categories one would think kids fit into that bracket too at the end of the day if we are going to use kids to sell a budget surely when can spare some houses to support those kids that are being blatantly used in their political game. (I know housing is a state issue but with more federal support more can be done to illuminate homelessness)

  58. David

    Fair point Stephen in regard to the Rudd government but how far back do we go to keep pointing fingers at governmental mismanagement? . Yes, the Labour government really dropped the ball in regard to the GFC and spent all of the money that the LNP raised from privatising essential services from the Howard era. Although Lee states a strong case against Abbott/Hockey, I find it alarming that her article is effective in highlighting Australia’s selfish attitude and thinking in regard to the disadvantaged and marginalised people within the community. I do agree with the acknowledgement of DanDark though, that rant was something else.

  59. Lis

    This article hits close to home. As a single, separated mother who decided that an emotionally DV relationship was not sustainable, I left with my then almost 3-y-o daughter for a better life. That was just over 6 years ago. I went into the private rental market and found self-contained accommodation that I knew we could get – a garden unit (in a complex of 18 units) in a semi-remote area. My daughter and I found our place here and I am the unofficial local counsellor/social worker/ peace maker. I am learning about boundaries but still our places are defined by our roles. Around 2 weeks ago, I completed my studies. On Newstart, I do rely upon welfare to sustain living for my daughter and to get her to school via freeway. (I can’t travel backwards to Sydney for work as this means an extra 10 hours per fortnight of commuting just to get my daughter to school.) I’m looking HARD for work but there is little available. I have enough confidence in myself to know that I have something to offer at 44 and that we will get through this. My daughter has needs and I will find a way of accommodating them. Yet not everyone has my outlook. Kids will be homeless on the streets if these actions are passed and they don’t deserve this fate. Shame on the Abbott government. I hope that these ridiculous propositions are over-ruled!

  60. Dan Rowden

    It’s not possible to give every person the living standard they might desire, given the complexity of society, but it is certainly possible to give every person basic dignity on a daily basis. This is surely the least we could require of ourselves to consider ourselves empathetic beings.

  61. Roslyn Ross


    Well said.

    ‘It’s not possible to give every person the living standard they might desire, given the complexity of society, but it is certainly possible to give every person basic dignity on a daily basis. This is surely the least we could require of ourselves to consider ourselves empathetic beings.’

  62. mars08

    Kaye Lee:

    The Australian Council of Social Service is concerned that the Abbott government is seeking to gag the welfare sector after comments from Immigration Minister Scott Morrison that government funding should not be used to support advocacy groups…

    Further proof that there is no limit on how far these tools will sink. Also… FYI… the Salvation Army has been on my “shit list” for quite some time. Because …. google…

  63. Florence nee Fedup

    Mr. Hockey said something along the lines of ” it is not possible to treat people equally. In fact that is not the role of government”. He was trying to convinced us that his budget is fair.

    Well Mr Hockey,. I believe most would agree with you. What is necessary for a civil and equitable society, that they are expect to be dealt with according to their means. To be taxed according to their ability to pay.

    Mr Hockey seems to be saying, they wealthy as a group. pay much more ae, therefore are over taxed.

    No Mr Hockey, they are being expected to pay their share according to their ability to pay.

    It was along speech, and for once, I found him so annoying, I gave up listening.

    It is in the inrtesest of all, that we have access to health and education. The nation benefits from a health educated population.

    It is in our advantage that all have a roof over their head. Yes, and today, as we seem to need both mum and dad working, access to good quality childcare.

    There are essential for the wheels of our economy to work.

    I do not see our government or PM as loving parents, handing out tough love. That is not their role.

    In fact, some of that tough love, would be better aimed at the corporate world, that today, are not paying their fair share. Yes, we hear about tax rates, but how many are paying, Lower the rate, taking away all deductions and rebates might help.

    Governments are for people, not the corporate world.

  64. Florence nee Fedup

    mars08, Howard wrote that into every NGO contract. Trouble is, the role of most of these organisations is to advocate, as well as providing aid and services, on behalf of their clients,, To do that, one has to criticise governments. One has to speak out.

  65. Kaye Lee


    How do you feel about the idea to cut young people off from the dole for 6 months of the year? How do you feel about the medical co-payment and increasing the co-payment for prescriptions? How do you feel about lowering the indexation of pensions so they rise at a slower rate than the general community standard of living?

    Do you think that abolishing the Social Inclusion Board, the National Housing Supply Council, the Prime Minister’s Council on Homelessness, the National Policy Commission on Indigenous Housing, the National Children and Family Roundtable, the Advisory Panel on Positive Ageing, the Immigration Health Advisory Group, the Refugee Council, the Australian Youth Affairs Council, the Alcohol and Drug Council of Australia, the National Congress of Australia’s First Peoples and National Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Legal Services will help our society be a better place for all?

    Do you think that paid parental leave is a good way to invest $22.2 billion? Do you think spending tens of billions on warplanes is a priority?

  66. Youth Worker

    I am so depressed today. Since September I have seen youth programs cut one by one. This process has accelerated at an alarming rate since the budget announcement. Yesterday the only youth mental health worker for Indigenous youth in my regional city was cut. This highly qualified and dedicated colleague is under the magic age of 30 years. Her clients are devastated and we are scrambling to find alternate avenues of support for young people at high risk of harm to themselves and others. The funding for my job is also gone – I worked to re-engage teens dropping out of school. I have personally successfully re-engaged 900 students a year for the past 3 years. Thirty percent were Indigenous youth, and all students I work with come from extreme disadvantage. Despite 100% support from all stakeholders! the program is over. Apparently this is fair according to our government. Just wanted to put out there the horror outcomes already happening for our vulnerable and those who try to help them.

  67. Kaye Lee

    Really they are just too predictable. Apparently. complaining the budget is unfair is “class warfare”.

    “Treasurer Joe Hockey has lashed out at critics of his first budget, saying claims his policies are ”unfair” were reminiscent of ”class warfare” from the 1970s.

    In a spirited speech at the Sydney Institute, Mr Hockey on Wednesday night said the view that his budget would exacerbate inequality was unfounded and criticism of his budget strategy was ”political in nature”.”

    Read more:

  68. Kaye Lee

    Youth Worker,

    We cannot give up. We must speak out loudly. We must contact MPs and Senators. Tony and Joe have gone too far.

    To all of you who are sharing your stories here, try to be strong. I find it consoling to know that when it comes voting time, Tony Abbott and I have exactly the same amount of power. In the mean time we must help each other in whatever way we can and stand up for the vulnerable who have no voice.

    Youth Worker, perhaps an email to Clive might be worthwhile, or even to Twiggy since he has decided to give money to charitable endeavours. Your situation could get their support? Worth a try.

    The wealthy people in this country have been identified as far behind in philanthropic contributions. Perhaps it is time to ask them to contribute more to the society that has allowed them to earn more than they could ever spend.

  69. Social Worker

    Hey Youth Worker. That is devastating for the Indigenous Youth. As if they haven’t had enough barriers thrown at them and now that.

    This is our paternalistic, NeoLiberal government that has shown how social services mean “jack. s..t” to them. I thought Howard was bad with his Instigation of the Northern Territory Interention, but Abbott, there are no words.

  70. Kaye Lee

    Speaking of megawealthy people,

    Gina Rinehart gave her daughter Hope a “loan” of $45 million. The conditions of the loan were that she pull out of the legal battle her brother and sister are pursuing, agree not to sell her shares but sign over voting rights to her mother, and Hope shall not “cause, procure, finance, support, encourage, provide documents or evidence for or otherwise assist or facilitate” any claim or prosecution brought by another person, the deeds say.

    The loans are seven years in duration, but the full amount is repayable if any of the key requirements under the deeds are not met.

    Read more:

    Guess we can leave Gina out of any philanthropic crowd funding plans. But make sure we don’t make her pay a mining tax or carbon tax…wait…let’s give her another exploration grant…we have that money we ripped out of the CSIRO.

  71. Florence nee Fedup

    I have just worked out what Hopckey and this government is about. Yes, he sees government role as giving everyone equal opportunity.

    Sounds terrific. I suspect he is also saying, if any do not take advantage, it is their own fault if they fail. He is going further., saying those who do not take up the equal opportunities provided, they will be punished. This government believes in tough love. Well tough love for those at the bottom. Those at the top, will find themselves with less accountability and regulations.

    They believe there is no need for government action, that the free market will provide all.

    They do not acknowledge that all are not equal when it comes to the ability to take advantage of what they consider equal opportunities. Do not acknowledge that many need additional assistance to take advantage.

  72. Florence nee Fedup

    Andrews addressing ACOSS. I believe that Shorten will also be doing so. ABC 24

  73. Chris B

    The sad reality of all this is that these people cannot be argued with using either opinion , logic or any degree of moral question as they are on a preset path, they have been bought and paid for both directly and indirectly and the evidence for it doesn’t get any clearer , the bodies of government that should have acted by now and stepped in have failed,. the people who’s responsibility it is to trigger investigations gave also failed,the public in general is in disarray as to what to do about them, all in all the politicians are doing a good job of turning us into slaves while keeping us believing that our vote still counts towards anything meaningful. the only way out of this mess now is a messy and violent one which will come eventually and realistically leave us back where we started asking the same questions and going through the same type of social corruption we see today – damned if we do , damned if we don’t

  74. Kaye Lee

    The way out doesn’t have to be violent. The people have shown us the way in the past. Look at the civil liberties movements and the women’s liberation movements. We have to do the same thing. We have fought and continue to fight racial and gender discrimination – now we need to fight poverty discrimination. The disadvantaged should NOT be further marginalised or blamed for their circumstances. Because a few people rort a system is no reason to attack an entire strata of our society. Hell if we demonised the rorters, we would have very few politicians and corporations left.

    Their tactic is to get rid of all voices for the people – advocacy groups, unions, advisory panels. That means we have to join together and be our own voice.

  75. Florence nee Fedup

    Shorten now on ABC 24 Addressing ACOSS

  76. Social Worker

    Well said Kaye, and thank you Florence listening now.

  77. Florence nee Fedup

    Youth worker. Hockey says all they have to do, is to create opportunities. They are saying all are equal, that the people you work with do not need anymore assistance from the government. Yes. everyone has the same abilities and capability. If they do not take up the opportunities this generous government crates, that is their fault.

    I have heard Pyne say, it is stupidity to say, the home has anything to do with a child’s lack of ability to learn. If they fail, it is all the fault of the teacher.

  78. Seeds of Hope

    Kaye, I would like your permission to reprint your article in our local community newspaper, Country Focus. We need to get the conversations started and not all people have access to the internet especially in this rural community.

  79. Kaye Lee

    Pyne is a privileged fool who has straight out said he has no conviction about anything at all other than being a politician. When faced with the fact that he campaigned against university fees he said of course I did….I would have got voted out if I didn’t. it is ALL about his career…he cares naught for what is right.

  80. Chris B

    I doubt we’ll ever really band together to form anything effective as a voice, at least not for the long term, people today while having access to the vast amounts of information are not as spirited or awake as people back then were ,people are too distracted today,

    most of these problems cannot really be solved by politics, a classic example is the jobs situation and a bit of basic maths which our politicians have either ignored or are ignorant of.

    we have 724,800 unemployed people trying to fit into 171,063 available jobs and thats assuming a 1:1 correlation in qualifications.

    here’s the links to the statistics:

    when i say violent i mean in the Mahatma Gandhi sense ,we have people now who are forgoing basic things like food to make sure they can keep the lights on for another month or two . in that sense we’re already there well and truely.
    however, what exactly do we expect from a society that thinks it’s ok to commodity everything and turn our most basic needs into an investment option without any thought to external or future effects?

  81. Kaye Lee

    Seeds of Hope,

    I would be happy for you to do so. The whole point of me writing here is to spread the truth and to make my contribution to making this country a better place. Any help is greatly appreciated.

  82. Kaye Lee


    Visionaries like Gandhi taught us a great deal. Hopefully this country does not have to resort to hunger strikes to get the message through though I take your point that many already have hunger thrust upon them. We are a wealthy country with a healthy economy. Full employment is a myth that we will never reach so we must accept that there will always be a percentage of the population that we must help to support. It may never be you but it will most definitely be someone you know at some time in their life. We can all accept the fact that we must adjust the budget but let’s raise more revenue and make wise investments rather than make drastic cuts which are most definitely not needed. every economist says we have time to gradually move back to surplus. Do not let this government bully and trick you into thinking we have a crisis. They want to point to a line in a fiscal statement as their legacy in office. What a paltry ambition.

  83. mars08

    “There’s class warfare, all right, but it’s my class, the rich class, that is waging war… and we’re winning.” ~Warren Buffett

  84. Kaye Lee


    The rich have more power and more influence. They own the media and the politicians. But we own the labour and we have vastly more votes than them. If it comes to a dog fight, it would be rather satisfying to withdraw one’s labour and it will only take 30,000 voters in marginal seats to withdraw their electoral support in 2016…or in any bi-election that may occur before then. In the meantime, let’s keep up the pressure. Large marches of disparate groups of people with photo op signs will get more coverage now. It will be harder to label us as “disappearing up their proverbials in a puff of BO and bong smoke”….yes Tory Shepherd, I will keep reminding you of THAT little gem. Let’s keep it non-violent and keep it heartfelt and smart…maintain the rage for a caring, compassionate, inclusive, smart society.

  85. mars08

    Not only do we own the labor…. We CREATE THE WEALTH!!!!

    We consume goods and services WE MAKE! Without a socially healthy and financially secure working/middle class, most businesses are screwed. All that’s left is speculation and the fekkin bullshit casino games that the big banks rely on. Without us making and buying STUFF, the whole thing is just a house of cards.

    BTW… about owning the labour? Ah… um… for about the last 30 years, successive governments have made sure it’s very, very hard to organise and/or withdraw labor. I’m afraid that lever no longer works…

  86. Kaye Lee

    Social worker, great link thank you. Yes the “Medical Research Fund” is in reality a tax on sick people to reduce the deficit so Tony and Joe can point to a line on a piece of paper. It does absolutely nothing to help the sustainability of Medicare, though that is their excuse. They have no interest in listening to the health professionals about the best way to prioritise/reduce spending…they ask the Business Council. It’s madness.

  87. Kaye Lee


    That is exactly why they should increase NEWstart by $50 a week. Every cent of that would be recycled into the economy, increasing demand, increasing supply, increasing jobs, increasing revenue to the government and profits to the big guys. They seem not to understand that basic concept.

  88. Social Worker

    Whilst we have a capitalist system, the class system will continue. The last thing the wealthy want is movements within the classes.

    Mars08 I was interested to hear your take on the Salvos. I worked with them for 2 years on a volunteer basis and couldn’t speak highly enough. I worked with an amazing bunch of people.

    The Abbott govt has put a gag order into many of the NGO’s now. They are unable to speak out of line for fear of funding being cut. This is from first hand information.

    It is interesting with the purchasing of Goods and services and what many don’t realise. In the last budget there was nothing about creating jobs. In the US, a prominent CEO, a multi millionaire said that jobs are created from the lower and middle classes. If they don’t have the money to spend we don’t have the jobs. Employment is not created top down, it is created bottom up. Tax breaks for the wealthy are icing on their cake as they already know how to play the system.

    At the end of the day, a social movement is needed. It has been done before over and over. There is a right way and wrong way to do it. The problem is, those we are fighting wait until the movement tires out and then moves on. When a movement does not tire it succeeds.

    Education to the masses, get their attention, based upon facts, truth and history.

    What is the greatest weapon the Neoliberals have? FEAR!

  89. Kaye Lee

    Fear and misinformation…spread the word and look after each other. It may also be worth thinking about joining a union. As an employer, I am not a member of a union, but I think we are going to need their representative voice. I know there have been allegations of corruption and proven incidents but I am confident that new oversight and governance is weeding that out. The RC is a joke. they are so obviously trying to damage Gillard and Shorten whilst we hear nothing about bikie intimidation and kickbacks right now on construction sites.

  90. mars08

    @Social Worker… my disgust at the Salvos stems from their attitude towards asylum seekers

  91. Kaye Lee

    Perhaps, the last word should be given to Greg Lake, a committed Christian who resigned his immigration department job over the treatment of these asylum seekers. Writing in the Bible Society’s magazine, he said that “I don’t believe a Christian organisation can legitimately provide welfare services to Nauru or Manus as a contractor to the Government without it being at odds with Jesus’ mandate to love the vulnerable. They could be involved as a volunteer organisation on their terms, but that’s all.”

    The Salvos And Asylum Seekers (Or: Having Your Cake And Eating It Too)

  92. SunLight

    And he is right 😉

  93. mars08

    Kaye Lee… my issue goes beyond the Salvos being at odds with Jesus’ mandate to love the vulnerable. Some of the stuff they appear to be engaged in is just plain wrong. I suspect the do important work in the Australian community, but I don’t want them working in the detention centres.

  94. SunLight

    Mars 08
    Years ago the salvos tried to move in on me and my children, who were little at the time
    They were smooth, they thought I was vulnerable a lost soul, and were going to convert me,
    Well they were wrong, after they invited themselves into my home, I couldn’t get rid of them,
    They would come to door everyday, I just didn’t open door, but in the end, cos they were not going to give up, I answered door, and said,” you are encroaching on my space now, uninvited, and if it does not stop, i will go to police” they were all men, no women, it was scary at time, but I could see through their agenda, and it wasn’t pretty as I say, they have always been bad apples, charitable organisation pfffftt

  95. Kaye Lee


    read the link provided. it was about the Salvos cutting off internet access for asylum seekers….just plain cruel and apparently designed to reduce their ability to know what was going on or to communicate to others what was happening.

    “Overall, the Salvation Army has received an estimated $100 million to “help” asylum seekers. As Haigh notes: “They have nothing to show for it, except a spate of resignations by Salvation Army staff working on the islands. It has taken tax-payers money to deliver outcomes which ‘major’ Moulds admitted have so far failed. If it wants to retrieve any credibility, the Salvation Army should go to the barricades and publicly advocate for the rights of asylum seekers to be upheld. Why, on this issue, does it appear to have lost its moral compass?”

  96. mars08

    A local Salvation army worker has been identified as the man likely to have killed Reza Berati….

  97. SunLight

    The whole thing is rancid, “lost their moral compass”
    They never had one to lose, just leaches, and thrive off the suffering of people
    Salvos Will cause the suffering to their own advantage, money, and then hide the evidence,
    not much has changed, just got worse, they have been handed human beings at Manus and Naru and here in Aussie for too long,They feed off the less fortunate, they are parasites, and advance themselves on the young at vulnerable people backs, and do it quite well these days

  98. SunLight

    Was and, not at ..sorry

  99. mars08

    The Salvation Army, on behalf of the Australian government has delivered “information” sessions to asylum seekers on Manus… Link provided below…


    “The police will do whatever they can to try to control [a protest]. This has sometimes involved beatings, slashing with machetes and imprisonment.”

    Regarding corruption, asylum seekers were told: “Police may ask for money or sexual favours in return for not imprisoning or beating you.” The notes continued: “[The police] might also commit crimes themselves, such as bashing or killing someone, in return for a small bribe.”

    The modules also provided frank details about child abuse in PNG: “Physical and sexual violence against children has been common, especially in families where the mother is also abused.”

    A session on public safety covered topics including criminal gangs, tribal wars, human trafficking, crocodiles and volcanoes. Asylum seekers were also told that half of all deaths in PNG were caused by diseases such as malaria, tuberculosis, rabies, HIV/AIDS, cholera and typhoid…


    This goes along with reports that the camp guards have told asylum seekers that there are cannibals waiting for them outside the camps.

    Inside Manus Island: expect crime, violence and deadly disease in PNG, detainees told

  100. mars08

    Now… why on earth would the Salvos, the Australian govt, and the camp guards want to scare the daylights out of powerless, isolated, vulnerable, demoralised asylum seekers????

  101. Kaye Lee

    I don’t know…and that is what pisses me off. We have a government that works on fear. Why do that? Is it the religion idea…we are all born with that black dot of sin and will all go to purgatory? Here’s a lifeline to all Catholics worried about that. Protestants don’t have purgatory…you can convert. There are two reasons to rule by fear….one is because you are so inadequate that your rule bears no rational scrutiny and the other is because you have a small penis.

  102. SunLight

    To say to Aussie people, the “mongrels” in an indirect way though, are rioting Mars 08
    It gets the racists and big goats on their voting side
    manus was a set up, and I told Morrison that, few days after riots
    They need food to sell the monsters here, we cannot have them here, they are a threat to you
    And they have wrecked the joint, and then on msn they start ranting about ungrateful those Moslems are
    This gov uses words very well, to demonise young men like Reza and it will happen again, to keep the voting bigots on their side, but I got a feeling, there is some digging going on and it will be stopped, before, manus blows again, cos gov planned and instigated the riot for their own political ends
    And very sadly it backfired on them no one was spouse to die, but violence breeds violence
    And that’s what happened when Reza was murdered and why so many severe injuries to so many of these men, who are under the Australian gov’s protection supposedly

  103. SunLight

    I would go with the small you know what, also comes with a mental deficiency tooo
    And a whole lot of other issssues as well

  104. mars08

    Manus Island inquiry: Students tell of working in detention centres without job interviews, training

    Two former workers at offshore immigration centres have told a Senate inquiry they were recruited by the Salvation Army through social media and were not given any training before being sent overseas.

    Nicole Judge and Christopher Iocono both worked at the centres on Nauru and Manus Island from 2012 until the early part of this year…

    Salvos… Greedy, slimy, amoral bastards

  105. John921Fraser


    I gave the Salvos away when they joined up with Howard and the other religions on the public tit.

  106. mars08


    I gave the Salvos away when they joined up with Howard…

    I remember them hanging around pubs in my teens. Even then I had my doubts. Maybe it was the uniforms… 😀

  107. SunLight

    They need to be taken down a peg or 3
    The salvos are nothing but a front, for rancid people
    And suck the young,vulnerable and fragile in for their own gain
    Always been the way, they have just got better at it
    Uniforms pfffft, uniforms just force the perception, they have authority
    Over the most vulnerable, people trust people in uniform, that’s why they wear a “uniform”
    I am the authority and you will conform, that’s all, it’s material a uniform, used as a weapon on others to conform

  108. John921Fraser



    The kids they hired to go to Manus Island have been copping a hard time from Abbotts gang in the Senate Inquiry :
    Why aren't the Slavos in their defending them ?
    Letting them off the hook with the secrecy clauses they made them sign.
    The only reason they can talk is because its a Senate Inquiry and they are protected under Parliamentary Privilege.

  109. SunLight

    Exposure, finally by these pawns in the asylum seeker game
    And McDonald is trying to cover the real facts and truths
    Manus was a set up by , Aus gov, for their own voters needs to be fulfilled, more vilifying the less fortunate, works a treat on msn
    Was a bit quiet up until then, he needed something to keep demonising them
    So made a plan , to make Manus blow, and Reza died, and many lived through a living nightmare
    Morrison has got plenty of blood on his hands, what type of person does that
    Morrison the murder, and planned at that,,, dog help us

  110. mars08

    I would be advising them to hit the Salvos and/or the govt for some serious damages compensation.

    Those kids were dumped unprepared, untrained and under resourced into a stressful, utterly alien environment. It would have been horrible. They would have had a hard time just keeping THEIR wits together… then add the helplessness of being unable to assist anyone else.

    It just fekkin stinks!!!!

    BTW… let’s not forget the part Rudd/Gillard played in this appalling mess….

  111. SunLight

    Oh yeah , that was the start to the end for
    Reza and all on manus
    Rudd will have to live with that action for rest of his life now

  112. SunLight

    These kids that were shipped to Manus will be dealing, emotionally with
    What happened to them at hands of Salvation Army and gov for many years
    There are many victims in this plan by gov

  113. Kaye Lee

    And the masters of double speak are at it again. According to Andrews, if they fund charities and community groups he robs us of our chance to be “virtuous”.

    “Andrews said if the government became too involved in charities it put at risk what helped citizens form their “virtue” and referenced the prime minister saying people were denied the chance to achieve something for themselves when the government tackles problems best addressed in the community.

    He attacked a “one size fits all approach to social problems, ensnared by contractual obligations designed to fit governmental silos, which rob many of individual initiative and personal initiative which should initiate charitable activity”.

    “Worse, it endangers the vibrancy of the institutions that help to form us as citizens in the virtues. The act of giving, whether it be finances or services or council, becomes a professional activity and indeed a function of the state rather than an act of charity and love directed towards our fellow human beings,” he said.”

  114. Matthew Oborne

    The under 30’s – unemployed for six months, no extra money in the budget to provide an education placement, obligations that with no financial means they have to look for a minimum of 40 jobs in that six month period or face further time being destitute. An under 30s person currently working will have no power over their lives at all, this is what it is really all about, the boss grabs their bum or asks them to do other things outside of their job description and their choice is clear destitution or put up with it. When people are put in a vulnerable position there are always people willing to take advantage of it. This is a recipe for much more than people realise. This is dangerous and deadly social policy.

  115. Nicole

    Stop having more children than you can comfortably provide for. After 6 months on the dole put youths into the army or at least the reserves. Teach them something other than whinging, something that will actually benefit them. I’m pretty sure that Joe Hockey and his wife worked hard their whole school lives to enable them to get into uni which then allowed them to get well paying careers. No one gets handed ANYTHING in this life. You want it? Work hard, educate yourself and you will get it.

  116. SunLight

    smoking joe, and his titty swaying dancing wife cabbage
    are frauds, and cons, always been like that
    fat cats, well fed and no brains, no idea,
    eleventy joe gets a big F for FAIL,
    HE CANNOT ADD UP 2+2 🙂

  117. Dan Rowden


    I don’t mean to be rude, necessarily, but it has to be said that the following statement is about as stupid as any statement can get:

    No one gets handed ANYTHING in this life.

  118. SunLight


  119. corvus boreus

    Nicole, the army does not want unwilling conscripts, and have said so any time that old chestnut is brought out for roasting. Leaving aside any moral/ethical issues, they make crap soldiers. In our Indo-china adventures, they had a habit of “fragging” their own officers.

  120. Kaye Lee

    I am sorry for always bringing up figures, but the wage for a soldier is a lot more than the dole, or are they supposed to risk their lives for bread and dripping.

  121. corvus boreus

    Not to mention training, equipment, provisioning etc. Nor do we currently deploy them for any domestic public benefit beyond occasional temporary bodies on the ground for disaster relief.

  122. Kaye Lee

    And protecting us by patrolling for asylum seekers.

  123. corvus boreus

    Yeah,forgot about that, probably because, like my right to racially vilify, protecting me from a few desperate souls seeking safety isn’t something that rates high on my personal priorities. I’m a bit ungrateful that way.
    Meanwhile AQIS gets gutted.

  124. Kaye Lee

    Regardless of every single entity, including the Productivity Commission, pointing out that affordable childcare is FAR more important than paid parental leave in boosting workforce participation and productivity….

    National Partnership Agreement delay puts pre-school funding at risk

    “Fifteen hours a week of government-funded pre-school for every Australian child is at risk, as the federal government drags out negotiations over the national partnership with the states.

    The National Partnership Agreement for Universal Access to Early Childhood Education is due to expire at the end of this year and states are getting agitated as the federal government delays negotiations while waiting for the results of a Deloitte Access review into it.”

    Could I point out that bouncy Sussan Ley had PWC do a review into childcare as one of her first acts, and that the Productivity Commission are also doing one, but why should Deloitte Access miss out on the review gravy train? Oh to be a consultant with Liberal Party friends

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