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Profit before people

The Abbott government’s economic policy is predicated on the assumption that any increase in the boss’s profits equals a corresponding increase in the workers’ wages – “a rising tide will lift all boats.”  This assumes that the ratio between the share of GDP going to labour and that going to capital always remains constant, something that is not the case as we see the proportion of GDP going to wages dropping around the world.

In the USA, the last 30 years has seen a reduction from 70% to 64% of GDP taken by wages. Meanwhile Norway and Sweden, held up as models of “responsible” capitalism, have seen labour’s share fall from 64% to 55% of GDP and 74% to 65% of GDP respectively since the 1980s.

Wages and profit are closely interlinked because they are both paid out of the same pot – the nation’s GDP. This means that for a boss to increase his profit, the workers must lose out on wages, and vice versa. It’s not possible to increase profits without decreasing wages, and it’s not possible to increase wages without decreasing profit.

Corporations, pushed by their constant hunt for profit and their own internal competition, will always attempt to expand their share. This can be done through direct attacks on wages or by cutting welfare, increasing wages below the inflation rate etc. The workers on the other hand, have an interest in struggling to defend and expand their working conditions and standard of living in the face of constant attacks.  The result is trade unions and workers’ movements that fight for the minimum/living wage etc, and bosses who fight for less regulation of employment conditions, and smaller pay increases.

Trade unions have lost a lot of the power that they once had 30-40 years ago, a direct result of the sustained attacks on unions by the powerful elite and media over that period. The result is that economic power has shifted in favour of capital, and away from labour.

Bosses, desperate to drive down wages to make bigger profits, turn to cheaper and less regulated labour in the developing world as a method for raking in higher profits and putting pressure on workers in developed countries to accept a lower wage. As Gina warns we beer drinking, cigarette smoking bludgers, Africans are happy to work for $2 a day in the mines.

By pursuing ever greater profits they inevitably drive down wages through automation and by access to new sources of cheap labour on the world market. The problem is that wages also make up the demand which keeps businesses afloat. With less money in the pockets of wage-earners, fewer commodities can be purchased and so less profit can be made.

The short-sightedness of capitalists trying to make as much money as possible out of each investment with no thought for the future is a fundamental feature of the system. If one business passes up an opportunity to make loads of money through greater exploitation of workers or the environment, another would seize the chance to make the profit and put its competitor out of business. This is the nature of capitalist competition – they cannot afford a long-term perspective.

Coalition governments are advocates of increased privatisation of public services. It’s true that privatisation often brings profit to the new private owners and those rich enough to afford shares in the business, but it is also true that privatisation brings worse wages and conditions for the employees of the newly privatised business. The reason why private ownership of businesses increases profit is because these owners curtail services and force down the wages of all the workers in order to pay the handful of people at the top obscene salaries and bonuses.

Developments in technology and innovation have automated huge numbers of jobs thus leaving correspondingly huge numbers without work or with a lower wage. If businesses were to invest in the education and training of highly-skilled workers they would be able to increase productivity, design new products and machinery and boost productive capacity overall. This, after all, is the point of any investment in a business.  Instead we see sackings, closures and restructuring as business tries to produce less in order to maintain their profits.

Over 160 years ago, Karl Marx said that the “bourgeoisie is unfit to rule because it is incompetent to assure an existence to its slave within his slavery, because it cannot help letting him sink into such a state, that it has to feed him, instead of being fed by him.“

Capitalism has developed to a point where technology and globalisation, phenomena that have the potential to improve the lives of all people hundreds of times over, are actually making the lives of wage-earners worse. It has reached a stage where we have the capacity to educate and train people, produce and build everything we need, and give everyone a decent standard of living. But we’re not able to realise this potential because of the unrelenting pursuit of profit.

The impoverishment of the masses and the concentration of wealth and capital in the hands of a small minority is a growing problem and as long as the right of private ownership to the means of production exists, and governments move further away from regulation, this process will prevail.

Tony Abbott’s entire approach to governing is textbook Capitalism, from his attack on penalty rates, the minimum wage, and unemployment benefits, his refusal to give industry assistance (unless you are a fossil fuel producer), privatisation of public assets, deregulation and removal of “green tape” (aka environmental protections) – every aspect is a short term grab for cash dictated and ruled by the “market”.

Oh for a government that had the courage to protect its people with a long term plan for general prosperity and well-being instead of a smash and grab raid for your rich friends.

62 comments

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  1. captain51

    Precisely, we hace been waiting 40+ years for the trickle down effect. Still waiting

  2. JohnB

    A well set out and composed article Kaye,
    but…
    you left out reference to the increased mobility of capital (through technological/communication advances) that allow businesses to avoid contributing a proper share of tax to support their host nations through extensive use of tax havens.
    The corporations are taking more than one additional slice of profit, they take not only from workers wage rates, but also from national tax receipts, which indirectly further impoverishes citizens of host nations.

  3. Kaye Lee

    Very true John – all part of the profit motive. A well-directed financial transactions tax may be the answer to stopping them shifting the money around to avoid their obligations. If Abbott goes ahead with his proposed cut to company tax there should be outcry. I should add Gillard also wanted to reduce company tax – why I ask when they reduce it themselves by paying kazillions to accountants to get around our feeble laws.

  4. kerrilmail

    Anyone who believes in the “trickle down effect” or that “all boats will rise together” needs to watch The Walmart Effect. The US system of protecting the wealthy is the framework Hockey/Abbott are following.
    Collectively, the Waltons own over 50% of the company, and are worth a combined total of $150 billion (as of August 2013). In 2010, six members of the Walton family had the same net worth as either the bottom 28% or 41% of American families combined (depending on how it is counted).
    Walmart employees are advised to “go public” if ill, as Walmart will not contribute to their health Insurance.
    Keep in mind in the US health Insurance is paid (if their employer chooses) by your employer.
    Walmart employees are asked to do extra hours (not overtime) to cover for sick employees, who, in fact,
    don’t exist!

  5. donwreford

    One of the aspects of what Kaye, talks of, is the extreme deterioration of products made abroad, the quality control is limited to non existent, simple products such as wood screws made of brass in places such as China, are so badly made trades people would just throw them out, this is all for maximizing profits, unfortunately much that is imported is so inferior to when it was made in the domestic manufacturing sector, the cost in replacement and fixing up this problem is extensive for the consumer, the consumer laws, to cover these anomalies frequently are a hassle to go through.
    One of the most important aspects of this article is the comment of constant decreasing the public’s wages, creates the inability for money to circulate, I live in a town whereby the landlords are so hungry for making more money on shops and commercial premises, that it is frequent many shops are vacant, because of high rent, it is hard to believe many shops remain empty as a result of tenants not being able to make money as a living wage, the constant hunger for more profits, seems to me as if it is not so much a understanding the economics of money but a psychological imbalance.

  6. John Fraser

    <

    "Tony Abbott’s entire approach to governing is textbook Capitalism, from his attack on penalty rates, the minimum wage, and unemployment benefits, his refusal to give industry assistance (unless you are a fossil fuel producer), privatisation of public assets, deregulation and removal of “green tape” (aka environmental protections) " ……and war.

  7. Kaye Lee

    Don’t mention the war!

  8. John Fraser

    <

    The Abbott "war" that has him hanging out in the International wind like a piece of fly blown meat.

    Waiting for Iraq to say yes.

    All the time the MSM are saying "Australian war planes will be dropping bombs tonight.".

  9. Kaye Lee

    And that’s the bizarre thing. Every government minister has been saying it’s different this time…they invited us. As it turns out, we invited ourselves before anyone else actually had a plan let alone included us in it. Consequently our iron force of six planes has been carrying out “training missions” in the UAE. I am not sure that displaying our willingness and eagreness to bomb the crap out of Iraq is being welcomed as Tony hoped it would be. This is seriously dangerous having a moron who listens to fearmongers like David Irvine in charge. Whatever happened to “slowly and methodically” or does that only apply to screwing the locals?

  10. stephentardrew

    Kaye give it a coupe of years and people will be asking how the hell did we get into this mess. Remember Howard and his suck arse Abbott. Just more of the same stupidity. I can understand why 60% of the population approve simply because they are well and truly misinformed and I think the motivation to prevent calamity for poor people who suffer under these regimes is legitimate. I too am torn however the Turks will not let the Kurds defend their territory in Iraq while they trade ISIS oil; the Saudis and Quataris support ISIS as the Iraqi government marginalizes the Shia while having deep contacts with Iran then the West is pulled into a crisis that the Arab League will not solve themselves. Meanwhile the US has deep ties with family Al Saud. Siria is just a nightmare while the US gives arms too the good terrorists who then get the weapons taken by the bad terrorists. When delving into the complexity and deviousness of all players in the Middle East one can only come away in absolute indignation at the complicity of the West in manufactured war and conflict. Meanwhile my heart aches for those poor souls whose lives are destroyed by such violence. Meanwhile the Taliban are on the revival in Afghanistan and the Pakistani Military is riddled with fundamentalists. Just a few more years? Bullshit try another fifty for starers and still it will not end. Tribal groups have long and bitter memories.

    I really don’t know what the hell to do however I know when I am being lied to and deceived by my government.

    A bit off subject but I just cannot sit back and not say anything about this self-inflicted mess.

  11. mars08

    “Tony Abbott’s entire approach to governing is textbook Capitalism…

    I suggest that Abbott supports some sort of malicious, warped, grotesque mutation of capitalism…

  12. Kaye Lee

    Could I suggest that slashing foreign aid to pay for bombs is NOT the best way to help.

    Likewise, refusing to send medical personnel to Africa to help deal with the ebola crisis because YOU can’t work out how to fly them to a nearby hospital should they get sick is just bullshit. Ask the US to take our people to their hospitals should it be necessary.

    I am soooo tired of Tony Abbott, Julie Bishop, Scott Morrison, George Brandis, Joe Hockey, and that Belgian Finance Minister who has made a meteoric rise in Australian politics to dictate to me about my life, with their sanctimonious utterances about “protecting” me. I have never felt more vulnerable in my life.

  13. stephentardrew

    Kaye:

    Your article is great and expresses everything I feel about the failure of capitalism and neo-conservative pushing of a pseudo social Darwinist survival of the fittest imperative with little regard for the consequences. Just watching that self-important egocentric arrogant prat Gerrard Henderson on insiders this morning made me want to puke. These people understand one thing, and one thing only, Greed. Many are working to find alternative solutions however when so few hold so much wealth and power it is incredibly hard to change the current paradigm. Nevertheless there is no way I am giving up the challenge.

  14. stephentardrew

    Kaye the lack of response to ebola is a criminal act of negligence by one of the wealthiest countries in the world. I think these bastards are scared shitless of the disease. Fear is a core attribute of conservative personality traits. Lets play with big guns an, an speedy jets an, an special forces heroics (just don’t let me be one of them) and flash out the medals but don’t talk to me about disease.

  15. Kaye Lee

    I daresay we could add ebola to the things that Tony finds “confronting”. He is such a useless prick.

  16. Matters Not

    YOU can’t work out how to fly them to a nearby hospital should they get sick

    Perhaps, instead of buying an extra 57 ‘lemons’ we could just … about come with any number of solutions?

    BTW stephentardrew, I thought Mike Seccombe’s ‘put down’ was brilliant.

  17. mars08

    stephentardrew:

    I can understand why 60% of the population approve simply because they are well and truly misinformed…</blockquote"

    Hmmm "misinformed"? I wonder… I really do.

    More and more I get the feeling that many, many voters WANT TO BE misinformed. They like the vapid, juvenile tales they are told… because it's just easier.

    A question for all those who comment in this forum

    Have you ever had any success opening they eyes, or stirring the curiosity of a hardened LNP voter?

    Me? Well my score is ZERO! No matter how many facts I present, no matter how much proof I provide, no matter how many experts I quote… the hardened LNP voters INSIST on sticking to the “party” line.

  18. Kaye Lee

    I have had a few converts but they are disproportionate to the amount of effort I put in. I still find people say “I don’t like Abbott but the Coalition are better money managers”. That is why it is driving me crazy that Bill Shorten is not emphasising the Charter of Budget Honesty. Hockey and Cormann say debt of $667 billion every chance they get. That lie needs to be shot down because they will base their next campaign on it and stopping the boats. The war came too early for them.

  19. Anne Byam

    @ Kaye …. 99% of the time I agree with you. And for many of your article comments here, I still do. But there is one thing that sticks somewhat in the craw.

    ___________

    ….. ” It’s not possible to increase profits without decreasing wages, and it’s not possible to increase wages without decreasing profit.”

    ___________

    This is not quite correct. A company, if at all competent, employs people with initiative, experience and forward thinking ideas. If a group, or even an individual, comes up with an idea that increases the profits of the company by xxxxxx amount – which in turn delights the company and it’s shareholders… ( and this DOES happen – even in today’s world ) …. then several things occur forthwith.

    First, the legal advisors of the company swing into action – to make sure that the personnel concerned, cannot take out any form of patent on their ideas, while they are STILL employed by the company. The second thing that happens, is a rise in salary – for some or all concerned. This obviates the need to get into conflict about the product (s) or production improvements. …. And so the bright young sparks are paid upwards accordingly. Profits rise – and so salaries rise …. because if they didn’t, the staff concerned, would be entitled to challenge the situation, creating headaches for everyone, and more than likely leave to find better employment ( if there will be such a thing in the future ). I am however, speaking of the here and now. I have family evidence to prove this point.

    This kind of situation remains mostly in the private sector, rarely if ever in the State or Federal Government sectors. But it IS relevant.

    Companies are not just money making machines ONLY. They ALSO rise and fall by their reputation. They try at all times to protect their reputations, which translates ultimately into profit. This takes time, effort – and GOOD …. and EXPERIENCED staff. Good staff are paid according to how the company sees their contribution and worth. Any company that does not compensate accordingly, and thus loses good staff ( there is a limit to what people will put up with – even today ) ….. is bound to go down the gurgler to some degree. So – in the best of deals …… it IS certainly possible to increase wages without decreasing profit. It’s quid-pro-quo.

    =======

    Your comments about technology replacing staff ( yes, it happens now many times over ) …. and the use of off-shore individuals are to the point. Alleged, “Customer Service “, spoken in tongues !!! ultimately will wring itself out. Unless that is, we ALL take courses in understanding so called English mumbled and spoken by a variety of other countries personnel …… with the accompanying angst and mis-understanding.

    I have nothing against Indian or Islands people whatsoever. But I do object strongly to trying to understand fractured English and the rapidity at which it is delivered …. ( it is MY spoken tongue after all, and I am enquiring about an Australian PURCHASED product !! ), . So …..I now always ask to be patched back through to an Australian office, where I just MAY be lucky enough to find someone I can understand. Ultimately, this off-shore situation will backfire on many companies – a) because of the language difficulties and b ) because those language difficulties will drag the company down, thereby its’ customer base down, thereby its’ profits down.

    Eventually these compnaies may wake up.

    ===========

    I take your points Kaye, about capitalism. But that’s not all there is to running businesses – large or small.

  20. Matters Not

    Hockey and Cormann say debt of $667 billion every chance they get

    Indeed they do. It’s now a mantra. The ALP seems incapable of understanding that ‘bullshit’ mantras actually work (in the political sense) and seem incapable of coming up with responses, and at so many levels.

  21. mars08

    I think one of the reasons that ‘bullshit’ mantras actually work is that they are simple, memorable and undisputed. Abbott and his pals give people who want to lean to the right (for whatever reason) a handy uncomplicated excuse for going that way.

    It’s a lot easier and more convenient than trying to understand the “Charter of Budget Honesty” and PEFO etc.

  22. Florence nee Fedup

    The dribbles seem to evaporate before they get to us.

  23. stephentardrew

    Mars8:

    A bloody great zero, naught, zilch, nuffin, three fifths of five eights mate but there you go living in hope is better than doom and brooding gloom.

  24. Anne Byam

    @ stephentardrew …….. the Ebola > Cuba link was more than interesting. Amazing actually.

    Maybe someone should shove it somewhere ? …. I will say ‘ in front of ‘ Julie Bishop ( to maintain a modicum of decency here ), and her inability to have Australia help in the Ebola crisis.

    There would have been many many safe ways Australia could have done it ……. but oh nooooo. !! They are, after all, the poor, ill and disadavantaged – something this Government wants to know NOTHING about.

    Bring on the Super Hornets instead. Bah bloody humbug to the ‘incumbents’ ( more like ‘ the cumbersome ‘ !! ).

  25. Möbius Ecko

    Two Australian war planes went on a mission in Iraq last night and in military parlance, “no weapons were released”.

    Canada will sign up to send their military to Iraq today or tomorrow. Don’t know why they dragged their feet for so long.

    Also the mission has not gone from months to more than a year. The creep has started.

  26. Möbius Ecko

    The short-sightedness of capitalists trying to make as much money as possible out of each investment with no thought for the future is a fundamental feature of the system. If one business passes up an opportunity to make loads of money through greater exploitation of workers or the environment, another would seize the chance to make the profit and put its competitor out of business. This is the nature of capitalist competition – they cannot afford a long-term perspective.

    I saw this in direct action with Howard’s WorkChoices.

    In Nowra several restaurants and coffee shops didn’t put their workers on AWAs, keeping them on pre WorkChoices conditions, whilst many did, some who made the news as they were flagrantly ripping off their workers. Within a month or so, one by one, those who didn’t take up AWAs were forced to reduce their workers’ conditions as they could no longer remain competitive.

  27. Möbius Ecko

    So Abbott got widely and loudly booed at the NRL Grand Final but ABC News Breakfast excused it as just part of the territory and inconsequential as they always do, and anyway Rudd got booed worse when he was PM.

    Why does the ABC continue to so blatantly prop up Abbott, who is determined to destroy them. They did it when he was in opposition and now they continue to do it.

    Also noticed the obvious fawning for Ltd News in several pieces. Sign of where the ABC is heading?

  28. Florence nee Fedup

    Did they have an explanation as why Baird, state premier was not booed. Howard was only booed, when he become unpopular, so unpopular that he lost not only government, but his seat.

  29. Kaye Lee

    “83,833 names have been added to Asio’s anti terror watchlist this evening after Prime Minister Tony Abbott was booed by the crowd at the NRL grand final in Sydney. Asio’s media secretary Daniel McDaniels wrote to the Burdekin Herald via an anonymous Tor forum post that the booing will be looked at strongly. “Those in attendance at that game can expect to have their passports revoked. Their anti Abbott actions are strongly in line with the anti Australian rhetoric we have seen from Isis.” Australian military intelligence double agent and Burdekin Herald anonymous informant Lieutenant Jacob Foster also condemned the booing. “We have enough on our plate as is without having to watch another 80,000 people. But because of the sheer amount of Bulldogs fans present I would have to say that half of them are probably already on the list anyway.”

    http://www.burdekinherald.com/2014/10/05/83833-names-added-to-asio-watchlist-after-nrl-grand-final/

    For those who missed it…

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nmSHQknks8

  30. Hotspringer

    Spot on as always, Kate, just like to add that in my experience privatisation results in higher cost and decreased service to the unfortunates who have to use the private provider.

  31. PopsieJ

    ” 60% of Australians support our involvement in Iraq ” screamed the headlines and” 50% feel threated by imported terrorism !” Galaxy poll results, pure media manipulation..On what did the 1200 Australians base their decision ? what they read in the MSM or saw on face book? nothing more or less. This country has been led into war by mindless Morons such as Baldric controlled by the evil Rupert Murdock and presstitutes.
    But wait there is more most vomit headline seen yet, “Tony Abbott barely accepted at home. a LION abroad ” I defy anyone who contributes to this site to read this without not feeling ill
    Russia, China, Japan, UNESCO, UNHCR, Cambodia, Sri Lanka India POTUS, The Comedy Channel, all see Tony Abbott and his government as complete fools and suckers and unfortunately by association Australians such as you and me

  32. Möbius Ecko

    How stupid is Newman? His seat has a large constituency of teachers, nurses and other State public servants, the very constituents he devastated, yet expects them to vote for him.

    He believes that by staying in his seat under woeful polling and having the opportunity of parachuting into the safest seat in Queensland but not taking it, those constituents will reward his bravery.

  33. Terry2

    Kaye

    I’m always worried about these opinion polls that seem to carry so much sway in the MSM.

    Evidently the Galaxy poll for Newscorp has shown 60% in favour of our Middle East intervention but not much information on how many were polled, how they were contacted or what the question was.

    By contrast, ABC Drum website held a voluntary online poll asking:

    “Do you think Tony Abbott has successfully made the case for sending troops to fight Islamic State”

    2537 people responded as follows:

    YES: 17%
    NO : 80%
    Don’t Know : 3%

    So, it seems it’s all in the questions and how they are asked : I have made the point before, that the pollsters only call ‘landlines’ so it means that people like me and my extended family never get polled as we gave away landlines some years ago in favour of mobiles. Similarly, a younger demographic would never be polled for the same reason.

    As regards Tony’s war, Cormann – the cheeky puppy – is suggesting that he may need to introduce new taxes or find new savings to pay for Tony’s adventure. At the same time his boss, Hockey, is trying to bribe the states with a one billion dollar incentive to sell publicly owned assets. Why don’t these guys get together and use this slush fund for more practical purposes including this war.

    And, finally, Bruce Flegg who was the Liberal Party leader at the time of the creation of a merged LNP as I recall, has been dealt the final blow by the Nationals in disendorsing him. Be interesting if he ever tells the full story on how the LNP tried to bribe him in 2012 – with the job in London representing Queensland – to give up his seat for Campbell Newman which, of course, was illegal and was strenuously denied when it was made public and no prosecutions followed the investigation .

  34. stephentardrew

    Rudd got Booed and he lost the election. Get ready Tony Baloney you are next. Only angry people boo. Be very afraid sunshine. A worthy outcome for Beelzebub. Your Faustian bargain is coming to get you.

  35. Florence nee Fedup

    Obama has sent nearly 4000 armed defence to west Africa. we can do nothing. Not even support I believe the Australians that are already there, putting their lives on the line.

  36. Florence nee Fedup

    One would think by Abbott’s silly grin and wave, he thought they were cheering for him.

  37. Möbius Ecko

    This is the more galling for me Florence as Abbott and other relevant government ministers have stated they can’t send people to West Africa as Australia hasn’t got the resources to bring them back if something goes wrong.

    This is so much crap on many fronts.

    For a start we have our closest ally and supposed international best friend there in large numbers with significant resources I’m sure they would use to help our people.

    They proudly boast of being able to stop refugees coming to this country and being able to send them to Indonesia whilst spending hundreds of millions in resources to do so, including expensive throw away life boats, yet can’t send people by plane to West Africa and return them?

    And the cruncher. We can spend $500 million per year to send the military to the Middle East on short notice without any problems or shortage of resources at all, including the facilities to bring them back if something goes wrong, but we can’t do a similar thing for West Africa that requires far fewer resources? Pull the other one.

    This doesn’t include the hundreds of millions extra being spent on propping up security agencies along with the rest of huge wasteful spending this government is undertaking for ideological and self aggrandisement reasons.

  38. Terry2

    One further point on Ebola and Julie Bishop’s strange and uninformed comments to the parliament on our evident inability to evacuate medical support teams from West Africa in cases of infection : we don’t have the aircraft for this type of long haul evacuation according to her.

    There are numerous medical evacuation (MEDIVAC) private companies operating in various parts of the world, they operate fully manned and medically equipped jet aircraft and could carry out efficient evacuations from West Africa to the nearest available safe haven which in this case could be any number of locations in Europe.

    Medecins Sans Frontieres and other non-government aid groups have had these type of
    medivac arrangements in place for many years.

  39. Florence nee Fedup

    Maybe Newman thinks someone can move over for him after the elections.

  40. Florence nee Fedup

    Seems we are going to get a blow by blow account of what our forces are doing in the middle east. Wonder why this differs from Sovereign Borders where strict secrecy is maintained.

    Seems operational matters does not apply when we are at war. Sorry, I mean missionaries on a mission.

    Yes, we sent out two armed planes. Did not fire weapons.

  41. Florence nee Fedup

    The Iraq Ambassador was clear on more than one occasion, that Abbott sought permission to enter the country. Was waiting for approval from that government. Even Abbott admitted this, but was allowed to get away with explaining his answer.

    Abbott was out spruiking that he wanted to send the Hornets, long before Obama or anyone else had a plan in place. I got the feeling he was trying to put pressure on Obama. Could he be doing the bidding of the Republicans and Tea Party.

  42. Florence nee Fedup

    Obama has been addressing three issues in the last few weeks. I think he put West Africa and Ebola top of the list, begging for more bodies on the ground, not money. Second was carbon emissions, then Iraq and Syria. Did not seem bothered about Putin,

    Abbott is addressing one out of the three. As usual, our Tony can only do pone thing at a time. Could not even read a note during QT, that told him of Madam Speaker'[s action.

    Does not seem to use a smart phone or tablet of any time. Have not seen him near a laptop as well.

  43. Florence nee Fedup

    I wonder how many young Muslims and those between 18-30 where at that match last night?

  44. Florence nee Fedup

    I wonder if it is OK for Muslims, such as the Kurds and other minorities, to go back to their homeland to fight the ISIS/IL?

  45. John Fraser

    <

    @Florence

    I'm just waiting for reports that the AFP thwarted a plan to blow up the Sydney Stadium while Abbott was there.

    No doubt they will have gained this 'intelligence" from their 800 heavily armed police raids …. that managed 1 arrest.

    This 'pigeon" is most likely telling them of plans to bomb Canberra, bomb Melbourne and bomb back of Bourke.

    Notice the simian stance of Abbott while at South Sydney's celebration …… due to the bomb and bullet proof underwear.

  46. Anne Byam

    Kaye …. I am a little puzzled at your comment – October 6, 2014 at 7:26 am.

    There would be many ways of purchasing tickets to the NRL Grand Final …. just one of them being ticketmaster and taking that for example :

    Ticketmaster does not take addresses in sign ups, and if a purchase of tickets is made ( to any event ) there are choices as to how those tickets arrive in the purchasers hands. A popular way to do that is to print them out for yourself … ( a slightly complicated process, but saves the extra cost loaded for Aust. Post mailing ) ….. [ I have printed out tickets myself ]. Admittedly, paying for the tickets by credit card or direct debit to a savings account … might be traceable, but would be up to the Banks’ discretion to release specific information.

    At least I believe that would be the case.

    Given the various ways of being able to obtain tickets, ( including Ticketmaster outlets / offices ) …. I cannot see how the precise number of 83,833 people could be put on any ‘ anti-terrorist’ list – because SOME of the crowd, booed the PM. I doubt that even today’s superior technology would be able to trace all those people – and I doubt that ASIO would be bothered. They’d have had many CCTV cameras trained on the crowd, and more than we could imagine – ‘ordinary’ clad police officers and security personnel, mingling in the crowd, with uniformed patrols as well.

    In the case of protests in city streets – where a member of Parliament ( Federal or State ) is booed and heckled by up to say, 30,000 people at a time, unless the entire protest march is arrested ( a logistical impossibility ) would those people all be viewed as having to go on anti-terrorist lists …. how could this report from the Burdekin Press, be remotely feasible. ?

    I do think the report held little in merit and was designed to grab attention – with a bit of fear thrown in for good measure.

    Not having a go at you Kaye …… more at the Burdekin Herald for printing it in the first place.

    =====

    p.s. Was tickled pink that the Rabbitohs won so convincingly. 🙂

  47. Anne Byam

    To Terry2 ………( October 6, 2014 at 8:32 am ) ………… EXACTLY. Well written post and absolutely true statements there Terry.

    It is particularly frightening, just how inept and ill-informed Julie Bishop really is. She should NOT hold this position of Minister for Foreign Affairs.

  48. Möbius Ecko

    It was satire.

  49. Anne Byam

    @ Florence nee Fedup. ref your comment : ” Could he be doing the bidding of the Republicans and Tea Party. ” ..

    Would NOT surprise me in the least. The Republicans are after all, the right wing party in the U.S. …. same as the LNP here. And they sure would be in sync. with one another. …. More so than the LNP would be with Dems over there.

    =========

    AND ….. well observed. He ISN’T seen to use any technology – or electronic device is he ? Julie B on the other hand, has her little pink mobile phone almost permanently glued to her ear. Hockey has been seen at his laptop ( although that may have been a ‘prop’ ). Makes us wonder …. !!

    ………

    Also, ref. another of your comments : ….. consider the cost of flying a couple of Hornets for hours, plus refueling – which turned out to be an exercise where nothing happened.

    A VERY costly procedure.

    =========

    @ John … ” his ‘simian stance “. …. he has a distinctly ‘simian’ walk as well, although in all decency I cannot say here why I think he walks that way. Will leave it at that. !!

    Puleeze … bomb and bullet proof underwear. ? Do you mean the tight underwear he dons, when going swimming ? Ye GODS and little fishes. I would like to keep my lunch down ……. 😉

  50. Garth

    @Florence nee Fedup …. I interpreted that inane grin and wave as a ‘F*** You’ but if he had a brain it should have got him thinking. Who does he think buys the Daily Telegraph, and reads news.com.au ?? If I was Tony I would be feeling very concerned. If the propaganda from our favourite ex-pat is starting to wane then what else is left ?! We’ve had the propaganda, Muslim and minority bashing, demonise the unemployed/DSP recipients, and war-mongering …. it’s the LNP playbook. I just hope the wider community is waking up to the manipulation … i’m still skeptical though.

  51. mars08

    Kaye Lee:

    The short-sightedness of capitalists trying to make as much money as possible out of each investment with no thought for the future…

    That links into one of the more annoying aspects of MSM reporting of business proposals… It frustrates me that the MSM always uses the “new jobs” numbers provided by the business putting forward the proposal. There is no investigation on how many jobs are full-time or long term… there are no questions about the jobs being given to the locals… there is no curiosity about the jobs that might be LOST if the new business goes ahead… there are not questions about the social and environmental costs … there is no investigation into tax breaks or other perks used to lure the new business… the are no questions about the pay aand conditions of the new jobs.

    Instead, the MSM just hold up the mythical holy grail of more jobs … as provided by the business… and the public takes the bait.

  52. Möbius Ecko

    Super Hornet estimated cost US$11,000 to US$24,000 per hour: http://www.stratpost.com/gripen-operational-cost-lowest-of-all-western-fighters-janes

    Ongoing costs from audit: http://www.anao.gov.au/Publications/Audit-Reports/2012-2013/F18/Audit-brochure

    The AU$500m per annum is bunk. Like all government costings on major projects and programs it will be significantly underestimated. That Kormann is thinking of increasing taxes to fund it proves that in light of the money they seem to easily find for other programs.

  53. Anne Byam

    @ Mobius Ecko ……… O M G !! ….. If ONLY I had read the continuous ribbon that flows across the top of the Burdekin Herald, I’d have thought ‘ya gotta be kiddin’.

    I am really laughing at myself…… I think it’s almost time I quit posting, after that gaffe !!

    The whole Burdekin paper seems to be mostly satire.

    Apologies to Kaye.

  54. townsvilleblog

    Kaye, I just don’t know how people fail to realize that this tired old out of touch party with its tired out of touch theories are against their best interests?

  55. Möbius Ecko

    Not to worry Anne, I’ve done the same for satire here. Some of it is so well written and true to the form of this woeful government and terrible leader that it rings as reality.

  56. Anne Byam

    Thanks Mobius …. that makes me feel better – and not so ‘outside’ the sphere ( as it were !! ).

    There’s so MUCH written against this monstrous mob … it’s sometimes difficult to know what is what – and where it’s at. !! 🙂

    As long as people post – anywhere – that brings the truth to Australia about their current ‘leadership’ ( wot a joke ) …. it’s ok by me, even if I fall into a trap of satire on occasions.

    Will keep posting, but oh heavens — – – – I DO hope I can reduce my posts from mini-books to a few salient comments from time to time. !!! ….. 😉

  57. Joe Banks

    Kaye, your tenacity is breathtaking… I almost hesitate to bring up the prospect of a new political party in Australia, one made up of the best of Labor and some of the intelligent professionals that are going to waste. It would always be accused (by the fearful LNP) of being Labor by any other name. But it could draw some of the older vote that is currently habitually voting Liberal. There is a lot of talent out there and it may be disenchanted enough and angry enough to ‘have a go’. I can think of several names speaking out loudly at present that may put their hands up. Even a bunch of intelligent Independents would be seriously welcomed, I am sure… Because the picture at present looks very grim.

  58. Wayne Turner

    I disagree.I think the Libs don’t care about the workers at all.These Libs are just puppets for the big end of town.ONLY care about lying to the workers to get their vote,aided by the Libs MSM.”Trickle down economics” has been pointed out yonks ago that it doesn’t work,and I think these Libs know this,even if they pretend and LIE claiming that it does work.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

  59. Lee

    “As Gina warns we beer drinking, cigarette smoking bludgers, Africans are happy to work for $2 a day in the mines.”

    When Gina puts her money where her mouth is and works in her mines (i.e. the physical work = getting her hands dirty) for $2 per day then I’ll listen to her. She could give away 99/100 of her wealth and still live in luxury for the remainder of her life. ‘Unrelenting pursuit of profit’ is a euphemism for ‘unrelenting greed’.

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