79 comments

1. Faye CoxNovember 18, 2016 at 9:21 pm

   I am adopted. Kaye
   I was born in Melbourne, in 1944. I have absolutely no idea of who my “birth parents” were.
   So, if I take Hanson’s paranoid “Orstayan” opinions into account I probably shouldn’t live here either…
   It always bothers me when some people decide whom we should like.
   Hanson is terrifying because she believes in her own bullshit and sadly, a lot of people agree with her

2. Anti-establishmentNovember 18, 2016 at 9:49 pm

   So good to see you viciously attacking One Nation. Good to know the paid Liberal National Party trolls are alive and well.

3. Florence nee FedupNovember 18, 2016 at 10:29 pm

   No way would One Nation be invited to any party I put on. Have attended many with refugees, even very dark ones from Africa, I would be proud to have them. #auspol

4. Carol TaylorNovember 18, 2016 at 10:55 pm

   Excellent post Kaye Lee. I am still trying to work out what One Nation means by “Australian values”..please explain Pauline. Subtext of course is that anyone who isn’t of Anglo/Scots heritage need not apply, which leaves me perplexed as to where to slot my Welsh grandmother who hated the Poms with a vengeance for the attempted destruction of the Welsh language and culture. You see..a problem with racists is that their knowledge of even Anglo history is somewhat limited. BTW racists, did you know that Sir Prince Phillip is a wog?

5. markNovember 18, 2016 at 11:17 pm

   Paulines’ wonderful world of dick and dora,and nip and fluff.mark

6. Matters NotNovember 18, 2016 at 11:42 pm

   Seems to me, that before there’s any sensible discussion of the merits (or otherwise) of ‘multiculturalism’, there needs to be a basic definition of ‘culture’ on the table. Would someone please ask Pauline to speak about the meaning she gives to the culture concept?

   Is that too much to ask?

7. HarquebusNovember 18, 2016 at 11:43 pm

   Are the people in the photo a fair representation of One Nation supporters? I know a few supporters and they are nothing like them. They are instead, older, white, conservative types who have worked hard all of their lives and are not racist. Ignorance is their worst attribute.
   Cheers.

8. Douglas PyeNovember 19, 2016 at 12:03 am

   … My little story for what it may be worth …

   I am a first generation Australian of English – Irish parentage … born on our farm in the Queensland bush during the Great Depression. By the time World War 11 wrapped up, and the (mostly) European refugees started to arrive, I was probably just High School age

   The stand out factor for me about refugees in that area & era was the expressed ‘ bias ‘ of the times. We were not considered Australian (yet) and, as for… ‘ those reffos … they come here …. they live on the smell of an oily rag ….. they take our jobs ‘ ….. was uttered from many local’s lips!.

   By the time I was 20 I was living and working in Brisbane, and along the way these ‘reffos’ were assimilated …. Nino Culotta (John O’Grady) wrote the book ” They’re a Weird Mob ” in the ’50’s. ……. later made into a movie. At 30 I was a Sydney resident………. and the ‘ multicultural ‘ (affordable) dining was abundant!! ….& that’s before we mention the Wine !! … 😉 … happy ending !

   The whole point I wish to make is that, whilst the current refugee situation differs structurally, the real stuff up lies squarely at the neolibs doorstep!! ….. Abbott & Co. in opposition “Opposing Everything ” simply to be bloody minded… ‘cos they could ….. come on ‘ what about US ? ‘. …. now Bigotry sticks out of our Senate ….. & courted by the current Government.

   The ‘ drama ‘ continues, as a contrived (mindless) distraction, whilst our average Australian standard of living and work availability is eroded to blazes. Now the Trump ‘ saga ‘ is added to the mix….. Are we being expertly played off the break ??.

   What I’m trying to get across is that we’ve successfully done the ‘ refugee thing ‘ before, and what’s been happening for years now is totally contrived ! ….. please forget my personal bits and concentrate on the matter … ” we are being expertly handled ” ….. it’s time we concentrated on coming together and forming forces ! ….. Cheers … 😉 …

9. Matters NotNovember 19, 2016 at 12:16 am

   Are the people in the photo a fair representation of One Nation supporters

   I wouldn’t know? But you apparently know what particular ‘meanings’ to give to particular photos. To illustrate the point:

   I know a few supporters and they are nothing like them

   That you claim to know a few supporters does not come as a great surprise. That you assert they are nothing like them invites explanation. Do you judge people on their appearance? Does that tendency to judge apply to racial features as well?

   But I won’t go on. After all I don’t understand the … whatever. And I certainly don’t want a further rant about doomsday ‘views’ that I have heard for the last X number of years.

   Please Mr Speaker … on the grounds of weirdness ….

10. Florence nee FedupNovember 19, 2016 at 12:48 am

    Our culture doesn’t come from all including Indigneous people assimilating into what Pauline believes to be our culture.

    iI this was so, our culture would be the same as it was about 1788. Not sure whether Pauline would have considered it to be the culture of convicts, or army and those who came to keep them in line.

    What is true even then we were multicultural. There were people from many lands on the ships. yes even a full blooded Negro who they hung because he couldn’tcontrol his appetite.

    From that time there were waves of migration. Most fleeing terror or hunger, seeking a better life.

    We had people from China and Afgan early in the piece. People who were hijacked bought as slaves from nearby islands. Along with Indians.

    Pauline at what point in time did the culture you claim to be ours evolved, Was it the thousands who came from all lands in the goldrush. was that our culture.was it the free settlers that came to open up the land, build farms.

    Maybe English gentry that came to rule.

    Maybe it was early last century when there was great unrest between the English and Irish.

    Wonder where the Welsh, Cornish and Scots fitted in. We can’t forget the Germans who came in droves, set up communities in most states. Was that your culture Pauline.

    Pauline the answer is east. Different races didn’t assimilate into what you called a Australian culture.

    Culture is not static set in stone. Not even in countries where there is little or no migration.

    Culture if forever evolving. All those different races merge into the culture of the time, evolving in what one could say the culture is at any given time. We seem to dump the bad keeping the good along the way,

    Culture is also influenced by wars and other events. By natural disasters. By progress in technology and inventions.

    The car, the plane, TV and phone as examples.

    There are even cultures within cultures. This is good.

    The opulence of the interior of Trump Tower is something I could never see myself wanting or living in.

    That could never be a part my culture, but is what trump sees as the way to live.

    Pauline, there ain’t any superior culture or race.

11. Florence nee FedupNovember 19, 2016 at 12:57 am

    PS I am 5th generation Australian, mostly Irish, both colours, French and twee bit English. I have 4 kids, grand and great grand kids, who partners come from many races. Backyard barbecues see people from all continents. The food is terrific. As for values, I haven’t notice any difference. All love a party. All love their kids. Grandparents are respected. All work. Kids all go to school. All love their homes, I am really confused about what values we have that they don’t share.

    What One Nation and their ilk want to do is imposed their narrow bigoted bitter views on all.

    Can’t work out why. Why they can’t live and let live. Which by the way I consider to be Australian value, along with a fair go.

12. Florence nee FedupNovember 19, 2016 at 1:01 am

    Not only Prince Phillip Carol. The Royals had to change their name to Windsor during the war. Can imagine them tramping off to the German internment camps that were established at that time. UK, US and here.

13. John BrameNovember 19, 2016 at 5:29 am

    Australian values, what a crock of the proverbial. Does one nation have a list of these values. Real values are compassion and empathy for our fellow human beings. Refugees are welcome at our vegetarian barbi any day of the week.

14. Steven ForsythNovember 19, 2016 at 6:44 am

    The happiest most peaceful countries in the world, are the ones with the smallest religious population. Any policies that include religion will fail. It’s really a waste of time talking about it until people realise this fact.

15. lawrencewinderNovember 19, 2016 at 6:54 am

    ,Hmm… and why do people looking for asylum come to the asylum?

16. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 8:21 am

    Matters Not

    (Slur removed in the interest of developing good relations.)

    Who I associate with is my business but, for what it is worth, they are a relative, an ex partner of a relative and a neighbor of a good friend. They are decent people every one who have exercised their democratic right which, I respect.

    The photo that I questioned, in my opinion, is not much different to an anti immigrant article displaying a head wielding jihadi as a example of potential immigrants. Wouldn’t that cause a stir. It is, also in my opinion, an attempt sway the perception of One Nation voters as just an angry mob.

    This is not the first time that theAIMN has participated in this kind of perception peddling which, is often used by the corporate media and so often complained about by readers and contributors of theAIMN alike as propaganda.

    The successes of One Nation has more to do with the failures of major political parties to address the concerns of a significant section of society and it does not mean that adopting One Nation’s policies is the solution.

    Also for what it is worth, I did not vote for One Nation and nor did I put them last. That position on my ballot I reserved for the Labor Party.

    Hope you avagoodweegend.

    Would allowing immigrants and not supporters of One Nation to come to your barbi be discriminatory?
    Is by allowing some and barring others the best way to bring people together?

    Cheers.

17. Terry2November 19, 2016 at 8:28 am

    Now we have Peter Dutton blaming Malcolm Fraser for immigration policy forty years ago.

    i know, I know you should never listen to what Peter Dutton has to say on any subject unless he is apologising for his abysmal failure as Health Minister and his total inability as Immigration Minister to come to terms with the priorities of that job.

18. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 8:35 am

    Someone who is holding a severed head has committed a crime. As far as I can see, the fellows in the photo have committed no crime.

    You miss the point MN is making. The fellows in the photo might be lovely people. You have judged them based on nothing more than a photo with no attribution ie on their looks.

    In actual fact, they were at a Reclaim Australia rally – a group who Pauline likes to address. This is one of her speeches at one such rally last year if you can be bothered to read it – it ain’t pleasant. She panders to ignorance and whips up intolerance.

    http://www.onenation.com.au/qld-news/reclaim-australia-speech-pauline-hanson

    As for inviting One Nation over for a barbie – I prefer to socialise with people from whom I might learn something. I don’t mean that to be “elitist” or discriminatory – just a recognition of the chasm between our world views on everything. They could never convince me that climate change isn’t real and that all Muslims are bad and that many women (not men) lie in family courts or that Aboriginals are living the high life on welfare or that Africans all have AIDS or any of their other whacky ideas. I would prefer to learn about someone else’s culture, to discuss with them what is happening in their homeland, to learn about the rest of the world from another’s perspective.

19. Möbius EckoNovember 19, 2016 at 8:36 am

    “unifying commitment to Australia, to its past,”

    So One Nation wants multiculturalism after all, as our past is multiculturalism from the First Fleet. And if you really want to take the word literally, then pre-white Aboriginal Australia was also multicultural.

    John Brame you hit the nail. When Howard was spruiking Australian values and was asked many times to define them, he and everyone else have been unable to come up with anything different to what most other countries in the world have as their values, and indeed are normal global human values going way back. Some of those countries with the same values as those Howard/Hanson advance are ones they rail against.

20. Miriam EnglishNovember 19, 2016 at 8:46 am

    Diversity of view makes any group of people choose and react in a sane and intelligent manner. Conversely, when the people in a group all have the same view and are of one mind then they tend to fail very badly, often making insane choices and overreacting terribly.

    You can read about the science behind this in James Surowiecki’s book The Wisdom of Crowds, which he wrote in trying to understand the forces that cause groups to sometimes make choices that are wiser than the smartest person in that group, and at other times spiral into the outright madness of lynch mobs and the Nazis.

    One Nation wants conformity. They want the perfect conditions for rampant insanity to rule. Thankfully they’ll never completely gain that, but if we’re not careful they could go a large part of the way there, riding on the unsuspecting backs of disaffected voters who are disenchanted with both the LNP and the Labor Party.

    There’s no hope for the LNP, but the Labor Party needs to break from the corrupting influence of big money and get back to looking after the people again.

    Every vote for One Nation is a rejection of the mainstream parties. As the only party that can do anything about that (even though they’ve left it dangerously late) Labor needs to fix it. They need to look at USA and Trump to see the dangers.

    How can Labor take voters from One Nation?

    Most importantly:

    ♦ Champion laws that would make politics and the media accountable, and would bring real penalties for lies. Labor would be back in power so fast their heads would spin.

    Here are a few more suggestions:

    ♦ Push to shift subsidies progressively away from fossil fuels to renewable sources and boost employment in those industries by funding big renewable energy projects as well as highly distributed solutions (solar panels, retrofitting buildings with insulation, etc).

    ♦ Speak out unambiguously against injustice and allow the refugees in. If they need to placate the xenophobes by reducing the immigrant number by an equal amount then fine; it will hardly impact the numbers.

    ♦ Promote boosting automation to value-add here in Australia and give manufacturers a reason to come back to Australia.

    ♦ Improve the social safety net, with an eye to streamlining it via a universal basic income in the near future — a solution loved by people across the ideological spectrum, and a necessity to cope with a future of increasing automation.

    ♦ Commit to making sure multinationals and the outrageously wealthy pay their fair share. If some wealthy people piss off then who cares? F*ck ’em. They don’t pay tax and they keep all their money in tax havens anyway. What good are they?

    ♦ Be vocal about stopping this 457 visa rubbish which is bringing in what are close to slave workers. If a company can’t afford Australian wages and conditions then they are unfit to survive in the marketplace.

    ♦ They need to nationalise companies that abuse their customers and their power — Murdoch’s media spring immediately to mind, though there are various others, such as Telstra. Nationalising badly run companies would have two very positive results. 1. it would make companies be more careful and honest in their dealings. 2. It would put a brake on the right-wing insanity of privatising everything they can get their grubby hands on. Who would buy something that could be taken away later?

    ♦ They need to fire the LNP party ideological appointees to the ABC (it’s supposed to be a knowledge and entertainment source, not a propaganda device!). Put watertight laws in place so governments can never tamper with the ABC and SBS again, and boost funding, linking it to something like the GDP. That’s how you take care of “Australian culture”, Pauline.

    And these are just off the top of my head.

21. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 8:54 am

    Kaye Lee
    I can see where you are coming from and do not disagree.
    It is my opinion that the photo used was to deliberately portray One Nation voters, a few being relatives and friends of mine, in a less than flattering way.
    The principles that you articulate in your submission are admirable and I am not in disagreement in that regard.
    I am willing to listen to anyone in the hope that I will be granted the same courtesy and if not then, I will still have learned something about them.

    Cheers.

22. Miriam EnglishNovember 19, 2016 at 9:03 am

    Harquebus, perhaps it is those normal-seeming One Nation voters who are damaging their reputation by associating with people like those in that photo.

    It’s like people in USA who insist they are not racist or misogynist yet voted for Trump. They condemn themselves.

23. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 9:12 am

    “I am willing to listen to anyone in the hope that I will be granted the same courtesy ”

    That is the problem. One Nation supporters never listen. Their minds are made up. Look at the time so many people have wasted trying to talk to Malcolm Roberts about climate change.

    “The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.” – Bertrand Russell

24. Steve LaingNovember 19, 2016 at 9:16 am

    Harq – but here is the big question. Are those One Nation friends/associates of yours denouncing the very clearly racist thugs of the various extreme right wing groups that One Nation (and Fat George) seem happy to be associated with? I’ve seen no apologies from the “moderate patriots” about the behaviour of the terrorist patriots, and this quiet acceptance is the truly worrying part. Hitler didn’t gain power through the actions of his thugs, but through the sympathy of the majority of “moderate, decent people” who refused to condemn them.

25. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 9:22 am

    Excellent point Steve

26. Deanna JonesNovember 19, 2016 at 9:29 am

    Harquebus, the people in the photo appear to me to be “older white conservative types”. There is no flattering way to portray One Nation supporters but I’m sure you call your friends out on their ignorance at every opportunity.

27. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 9:37 am

    Miriam English
    There is no association between those that I know and those in the photo and is the point that I am making.
    It was the U.S. Democratic Party that condemned themselves when they cheated Bernie Sanders out of the nomination. What does that make their supporters, cheaters?

    BTW: Your comments are always well presented and worth reading. Not that I always agree or respond but, I do always read them.

    Kaye Lee
    You are putting all One Nation supporter under the same umbrella. The three that I have mentioned were all previously Labor and Coalition supporters. Did there deafness suddenly descend upon them when they changed their vote? Perhaps the “never listen” claim should be directed elsewhere.

    Steve Laing
    I will admit, I have not heard them say such things but, at the same time, they are peaceable and do not advocate them.

    Cheers.

28. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 9:44 am

    “There is no association between those that I know and those in the photo and is the point that I am making.”

    Yes there is – they all support One Nation. And if your friends don’t advocate xenophobic racism, why are they voting for One Nation? Do your friends also believe climate change is crap? And is it ok to not take action because their ignorance is as important as the experts’ knowledge?

29. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 9:51 am

    Deanna Jones
    Conservative types?
    My friends listen to what I say and visa versa. I am not in favor of immigration for other reasons so, in this area at least, there is not much disagreement. Racism is not a part of any of my peers character.

    Kaye Lee
    With that logic, I can assume that all Labor and Coalition voters support off shore detention.

    I have been trying to read John Lord’s article for the past hour so, I’m outta here for a while.
    Catchyalayda.

30. Deanna JonesNovember 19, 2016 at 10:04 am

    Harquebus, “conservative types?”

    That was your quote. You said all the ON supporters you know are older white conservative types. How are the people in the photo not conservative if they support ON policies? The only difference between them and your friends is probably superficial, personal presentation, attire etc. but fundamentally they are all conservative. ON is also fundamentally racist therefore so are their supporters.

31. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 10:19 am

    Reasonable point about the offshore detention.

    So your friends are willing to accept climate change denial, the persecution of Muslims, and welfare bashing because they want to reduce total immigration intake and think they will achieve that by voting for Hanson, Roberts, Burston and whichever member of Culleton’s family ends up there? You think that crew are capable of a reasoned discussion about the pros and cons of immigration numbers? Do you think they have considered demographic studies and the economic consequences to inform their decisions? Do you think they will be able to present a case for parliament to consider? Or do you just hate halal food?

    These people are not making any sort of sensible debate based on evidence – they just don’t like foreigners.

32. JaquixNovember 19, 2016 at 10:32 am

    I cant get past the first line of ON “policy” which says “Multiculturalism has failed everywhere.” What? Lets unpick that greaf big whopper before we move on to anything else.

33. townsvilleblogNovember 19, 2016 at 11:03 am

    I was raised to gather friends as we found people, not based on race, colour or creed, but on personality, so in answer to the question, I have no doubt whatsoever that good people exist in both camps, all be it that some of both camps are sadly ill-informed.

34. 1petermccNovember 19, 2016 at 11:20 am

    OMG. I do believe that is the first time I have seen you described as a “paid Liberal National Party troll”, Kaye Lee.

    Damn near fell off my chair. Obviously someone hasn’t picked up on the reality that a One Nation vote is a Hard Right Liberal vote. I’m a little surprised they missed it with Pauline already signing up for the legislation that sticks it to low income families.

    I wonder if they can keep hiding that by the time the next Federal Election comes around? It’s going to be very difficult unless folk are extremely gullible.

35. diannaartNovember 19, 2016 at 11:28 am

    About that photo… hypocritical stereotyping of One Nation voters?

    Or.

    A vision of what One Nation voters look like on the inside?

36. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 11:36 am

    Kaye Lee
    Please. Don’t jump on me for how my friends voted. That has nothing to do with me. They are quite capable of making up their own minds and the major parties have failed to convince them. That is all. It is a trend. Brexit, Trump, Hanson.
    The blame lies with the major parties and no one else and especially not me.
    In response to your question about denial and persecution etc. Of course not and same for the other stuff.
    Avagoodwun.
    Cheers.

37. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 11:38 am

    I can understand questioning the choice of photo. Here is one that is perhaps more representative. All I can see is Muslim bashing – no genuine concern based on anything real.

    

38. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 11:43 am

    Harquebus. I am sorry, I didn’t mean to attack you, just to ask the question of what your friends (and others) think Hanson has to offer. Voting against something is one thing, but that doesn’t mean you should be cavalier about who you give that vote TO.

39. ExoplanetNovember 19, 2016 at 11:44 am

    Re: Brexit – can we perhaps keep in mind that a minority actually voted to leave the EU. A minority of some significance.

40. Matters NotNovember 19, 2016 at 11:49 am

    Within any ‘culture’ there are vast differences. Variations include attitudes, values, beliefs and behaviours at a minimum, Differences can be explained by reference to variables such as socio-economic background, level of education, life experiences, residential location (rural or urban – indeed there are ‘cultural’ differences between and among people in the various states and territories – evidence thevoting patterns, over time).

    The point being that within any ‘culture’ there will always be many, many other ‘cultures’. Even when cultural homogeneity is assumed, research shows vast (and what might seem irreconcilable) differences. For example, within the members of the Seventh Day Adventists, extensive differences in attitudes, values and beliefs are identified. So whether we like it or not all ‘cultures’ are ‘multicultural’ And always will be. Within any ‘culture’ there will be some who make metaphysical assumptions while others refuse to speculate. Some will advance ‘science’ as the best way of knowing while others rely on ‘faith’. And so it goes.

    For most in any ‘culture’, the range of differences matters not, because they either don’t know they are there or because they don’t care. Hanson doesn’t know.

41. JaquixNovember 19, 2016 at 11:52 am

    One Nation voters need to ponder why Hanson & Co have voted 77% of the time (and probably more to come with ABCC etc) with the Coaltion government. They might as well just have voted for the Liberals or Nationals, for all the good its done them. Pauline says she is “listening to the people” (and inferring that Libs and Labor are not) yet what has she done as a result of that listening? Voted with the Libs!

42. ExoplanetNovember 19, 2016 at 11:53 am

    I can understand questioning the choice of photo. Here is one that is perhaps more representative. All I can see is Muslim bashing – no genuine concern based on anything real.

    That would be because the photo is from a Reclaim Australia Anti-Islam rally. Hanson spoke at that rally but it was not a One Nation event. It’s actually hard to find a pic of an actual One Nation event because no-one seems to turn up.

43. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 11:58 am

    One thing that really gets me is that it isn’t the people who live and interact with Muslims every day who are scared – it is people from regional Queensland whose only connection with Islam is probably seeing overseas terrorist stories on the news and reading the poison that Larry Pickering spews forth.

    You would be hard pressed to find a young person in Sydney who doesn’t have Asian and Muslim friends.

    It is Muslim families who are being torn apart by the grooming of their children. They need our help, not our ignorant abuse. We need to understand how we are failing these kids to make them feel so ostracised that they would be vulnerable to bad people.

44. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 12:00 pm

    Exoplanet, I explained that in my comment at 8:35 am.

45. helvityniNovember 19, 2016 at 12:05 pm

    Studying the faces in the first photo, I had to agree with Richelle E Goodrich: ” Beauty is a behavior. As is ugliness.”

46. AnomanderNovember 19, 2016 at 12:15 pm

    Assimilation = everyone should be white and they should know their place in the pecking order, except of course, those we want to perform physically-demanding, menial. low-wage jobs that are beneath us.

    I mean, we’re the “lucky country” and we shouldn’t have to do shit jobs – that can be left to yellow and brown skinned people who are happy to work for a bowl of rice and should consider themselves fortunate that we allowed them to come here and be exploited.

47. ExoplanetNovember 19, 2016 at 12:18 pm

    Exoplanet, I explained that in my comment at 8:35 am.

    I know. I’m referring to your ‘replacement’ photo, which is also from a Reclaim Australia Anti-Islam rally at which Hanson spoke. Given what the rally was it’s understandable that all you see is ‘Muslim bashing’

48. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 12:22 pm

    Kaye Lee

    No need to apologize but accepted.
    I don’t think that One Nation has anything to offer, are at there peak and I certainly didn’t vote for them. As for my friends I can only say that population was a factor. Something that I do not recall coming up in any election. There is no climate denial nor racism anywhere in these people. They are your typical Aussie neighbors and are good people. Nothing like those in your first photo.

    A good photo that second one and brings home your point. Touche. They could be my neighbors but, again, who is it that is failing to convince them? Party politicians and John Lord’s page lists some pretty good examples as to why.
    For my part anything that puts down any religion is okay with me.

    No political party has a viable plan for addressing other issues like environment and climate so, it could be said that it makes no difference who one votes for and the major parties do not have a particularly good track record.

    Why voting is an exercise in futility

    I always carefully consider my vote. I check policies, candidates and in the senate and always vote below the line. It felt good to vote Penny Wong last.

    Perhaps with a bit of luck, there might evolve a decent alternative to take control of the senate before the next election.

    Cheers.

49. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 12:24 pm

    Ahhh I see. Googling also brought up another interesting photo – eight staff members from Nauru detention centre’s “emergency response team” with Pauline

    

    http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/04/15/nauru-detention-guards-suspended-photo-pauline-hanson

50. ExoplanetNovember 19, 2016 at 12:33 pm

    Illuminating. Nauru detention centre’s “emergency response team” at a Reclaim Australia rally. Tells us everything we need to know, really.

51. cornlegendNovember 19, 2016 at 12:38 pm

    “Who would you prefer to invite to a barbie – One Nation supporters or refugees? ”
    And the question infers what?
    I have had One Nation supporters at a BBQ at my joint.Two couples actually
    I didn’t know they were prior to arrival but they were actually nice people ,
    THey may not be the “true blue One Nationers as they believe AGW is happening, they support Medicare, NDSI, NBN etc.
    They supported Hanson strictly on anti Islam, anti Immigration,
    They aren’t mad flag wavers, just have strong personal views on some issues.
    Now I might not agree with their views, and it only came up in a discussion but they were quite nice people and I would invite them back again, Hanson supporters or not

52. Deanna JonesNovember 19, 2016 at 12:55 pm

    cornlegend, in my experience nice people can be racist.

53. jimhazNovember 19, 2016 at 1:01 pm

    Why is it so necessary that we have to define our culture?

    It is a bit like a person accurately defining why a thought of a certain emotional flavour might occur to them. It is really just what they are used to and thus what they now expect to see but don’t more than they are accustomed to. It is the abstracted sum of their past Australian experiences.

    For me it is about the difference between things like getting to work by public transport; the change in office dynamics and relationships; more chance of crappy or ignorant management, buying goods or services, irritating Indian scam calls, silliness’s like halah or muslim wear, new forms of obnoxious religious insanities, loss of freedom to have a joke about the traits of nationalities, differences in nights out drinking/partying with drunken cross cultural grandstanding/conflicts, loss of conversational depth due to communication issues or incompatible cultural backgrounds, partial loss of instinctual sense of security one gets from ones’ “normal group”, a sense of racial regression, a decline in importance, additional government costs that might have been spent on those like us who need help and need cultural grounding and the cost to us of not making things better for them (yoboism, disrespect and uncouthness, robberies, drug addiction, depression and hopelessness, bludging etc), increase in non- taxpayers, blackmarket and other; instinctually knowing that too many immigrants or foreigners will make the job market more competitive and make it easier for business to cut the employee share of profits.

    Why should we meekly accept that the levels of immigration, 457 and student education are we what we want, when it does not feel good for us.

    If you are a white person, or even any person born here, and relatively poor due to whatever reason (low skills, personal problems, bad luck etc), then statistically every new immigrant decreases your level of importance, your status, and your percentage of ownership and control over your life environment. For them it is mathematically a negative sum game – on a collective basis they lose every time. There is nothing in it for them but loss.

    It is no good saying migrants create jobs that otherwise would not have existed, that they are better off for this jobs reason. They know it is bullshit because all the people like them don’t have jobs or have jobs but are always losing ground to costs or longer work hours, and they can see looking back that their older relatives were progressing at a time of lower immigration/457/foreign students. They see it can benefit others “management material people”, go-getters, smoothtalking suits or professionals and have it easy lefties or intelligencia types – but not them. Seeing these others do well, it can also breed status envy or despondence.

    Status anxieties are connected to the ego and are emotionally important, unavoidable and mostly subconscious drivers. Herd animals, as we are, will often fight viciously for status reasons, at all levels of the hierarchy. Even if one gives up and accepts one place, resentment can still flair when a payback opportunity arises. It is little wonder the protesters contain a lot of angry young men, limited thinkers (resulting in low income) and country people. Country people are less acclimatized and still have a very Australian culture – many still get a shock when visiting the big city or tourist areas.

    Cognitively, one of the issues with migration is that it is not just about migrants, but about where they come from. The negative emotions overseas incidents cause in us are intertwined with whatever it might be that migrants do here that we categorise as negative.

    In the past not just when migration levels were lower, but when the born overseas percentage was much lower, the existing Australians and the new migrants had the time to become more familiar and to get over our cultural differences. Our entire western world was very racist*, so there was lots of friction and growing pains.

    *If the non-western world had all the wealth and power, then they would have been equally racist – for large enough percent of the population it is human nature to desire to make use of by manipulation or to denigrate others (I seem to have the denigrating streak).

    With multiculturalism, after a scare about Japanese wealth, we got used to a higher percent of non Australian born and progressively became more cooperative and amicable. The big differences were that the percent born overseas was much lower and there were fewer from the more extrovertly proud or big population nationalities (Middle east and India), and of course the rise of Islamic extremism, over a period when immigration levels and the number of temporary residents increased significantly.

    When we had a lower born overseas ratio and more limited mix of nationalities, multiculturalism provided more variety and was interesting, and helped us economically with international trade and middle and low status labour. It’s benefits outweighed the cultural “thinning” price we were paying.

    That has not been the case for a decade now.

    Just as say migrant groups find refuge in their culture, in people that look, talk, joke and emote like them, so do long term Australians. The difference is that they had reasons or planned to become “strangers in a strange land”, long term Australians did not.

    Yes, most people don’t have a problem with immigration, including a lot of low income people. Most are still enamored by the growth virus or the aging scare; many would legitimately fear the necessary recession; many would have a safe, secure family life and can take things as they come while loving the property appreciation; some would have personalities that desire to help others, or simply don’t bother examining the consequences.

    Bubble housing inflation takes away all economic benefits for the average or lower wage person, other than a few cluey ones taking risk and advantage. I think even those who support immigration for humanity/equality related reasons, the anti-racism adherents (here) should accept this problem.

    We have to lower house pricing to relieve the stress and hopelessness for low incomers or they will rise up via the wrong groups.

    I desire to see immigration halved over 5 years (to allow economic adjustment), and as all increases in population cause a decrease in the safety and life quality of future generations, cut to population maintenance levels or lower within 10.

54. ExoplanetNovember 19, 2016 at 1:04 pm

    Lovely thing.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp0Z6IPJ88s

55. JexpatNovember 19, 2016 at 1:11 pm

    “Nice people can be racist?”

    Jeebus.

    That requires the full Godwin: Even Hitler loved his dogs.

56. ZathrasNovember 19, 2016 at 1:13 pm

    Perhaps the only thing worse than an unhappy bigot is a happy bigot.

    No doubt many extremists are feeling empowered and their beliefs vindicated by the recent One Nation/Trump victories and are more likely to display their intolerance in public.

    It will be interesting to see how fast Trump/Hanson backpedal when ugly things start happening in their name.

57. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 1:21 pm

    “all increases in population cause a decrease in the safety and life quality of future generations”

    Do you think safety and life quality was better when the population was 1 million? I agree population growth is an issue we must consider but that isn’t how it’s being phrased by ON.

    I am particularly concerned by phrases like “racial regression”. That would imply some sort of racial hierarchy?

    “When we had a lower born overseas ratio”

    Without looking it up I would suggest that we have always had a high born overseas ratio – or does the UK not count as overseas?

    (edit: In 2003 23.6% of the ERP were born overseas. In 2014-15, net overseas migration (NOM) reflected an annual gain of 168,200 persons. The top 10 countries of birth excluding Australia are the UK, New Zealand, China, India, the Philippines, Vietnam, Italy, South Africa, Malaysia, Germany)

    Blaming migrants for high property prices and unemployment is just scapegoating. Blame government policies that skew investment towards property. Blame the government for outsourcing and privatisation and refusing to adopt a ‘buy Australian’ policy and invest in education and infrastructure

    And yes, we have had to clean up our humour. It doesn’t stop us telling stereotypical jokes – it just makes us think about their consequences.

58. cornlegendNovember 19, 2016 at 1:39 pm

    Deanna Jones
    I just was questioning the continual stereotyping of groups.
    It was interesting a while back when a bunch of young Uni students were at my joint for a BBQ, they too stereotype
    I asked did they visit some popular online sites.
    The answer was no,not much, as those sites usually were commandeered by groups of,it seems 24/7 occupied, aged nerds, sitting in the dime light of a monitor, a keyboard for a friend, convinced their next post would change politics, and the masses were patiently waiting for the “word” to reach them, and change society.
    I copped a bit of ribbing over that one myself,
    Now, I don’t stereotype 😀
    Just if any Wilteds manage to get over the corn boundraries, on leaving, they are frisked and the silverware checked. 😀
    plus, skinny latte, tofu and the like usually aren’t on the menu at my joint:-D

59. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 1:53 pm

    That is a fair call cornie re stereotyping but I think the discussion has been worthwhile in trying to understand why anyone would vote for Hanson who seems the archetypal stereotyper – “all Muslims are bad”.

    People seem to be blaming migration for unemployment. There is some validity in that concern re 457 visas but not for humanitarian migration which is such a small number of people. Government policy, the demise of unions, corporate greed, and automation would be far more sensible areas to look at.

    As for Muslims changing our way of life – hooey! They are just ordinary people. It isn’t the Muslims who come knocking on my door telling me evolution isn’t real, wanting to give me pamphlets full of rubbish.

60. diannaartNovember 19, 2016 at 2:18 pm

    The rorting of 457 visas is one of the problems being blamed on hapless immigrants/workers. Employers using 457’s to import workers on less money, woeful conditions are to blame.

    Oh, but we mustn’t blame business, just easier targets, right?

    The whole visa issue flies in the face of the Government’s war on the unemployed. By opening the system to widespread rorting, and systematically making it easier to import labour from offshore rather than training local workers, locals (particularly the young and less-skilled) are deprived of employment opportunities.

    One can only assume that the Government is intent to undermine local workers’ pay and conditions, while at the same time keeping the throttle on population growth and capital’s share of profits.

    http://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2014/08/widespread-457-visa-reporting-revealed/

    The CFMEU alongside other unions know there is rorting going on. We know because the ABS figures show that at the same time there have been 68,000 jobs lost in the construction industry, there has been a 38% rise in 457 visas. We know because our members tell us that they can’t get a look in on the big resource sector jobs, despite their skills and experience. We know because a few courageous 457 workers who have come forward have come to us for help because of shocking exploitation that they have suffered.

    There is no ‘official’ evidence of rorts because no one in government or elsewhere has bothered to collect such data.

    People from around the country are speaking up: on talk back radio, in newspapers, in social media and they’re telling stories of their own employers consistently employing 457 visa workers without even bothering to find out if there any locals available.

    Next plane home
    The 457 visa system is a boon for business. They can employ cheaper workers who are more compliant and who are frightened to speak up about safety because they are here as indentured labour to their employers. If they cause trouble, they’re simply deported back to where they came from.

    https://vic.cfmeu.org.au/leadership-message/big-business-rorting-457-visas-undermine-our-wages-and-conditions

    Of course this comment I place will be totally ignored like everything else – I am finding less reason to return to AIM. I am not a troll and believe I am making a contribution – maybe only in my own imagination…

    Bye

61. Kaye LeeNovember 19, 2016 at 2:25 pm

    diannaart,

    I for one greatly appreciate your comments. Even if I don’t respond, they are never ignored.

    This is a real issue in my opinion. The wrong people are being blamed for unemployment and, as your post shows, it very much suits the government and business to keep it that way.

62. cornlegendNovember 19, 2016 at 2:45 pm

    diannaart
    Hey what you doing woman ?
    We have butted heads and even agreed sometimes for a bloody decade all over the internet ,
    Where you going?
    Wouldn’t be the same if I didn’t piss off diannaart at least monthly 😀

63. Florence nee FedupNovember 19, 2016 at 4:41 pm

    We are one nation derived from many cultures, races and religions.

64. Miriam EnglishNovember 19, 2016 at 5:40 pm

    diannaart, for what it’s worth, I always eagerly read your comments. Even if I don’t respond to them they always have an effect upon me and I’m grateful for them. You are one of a small circle of thoughtful, progressive commenters here who I feel I benefit greatly from.

    But I know what you mean. Sometimes it feels a bit like shouting into the wind; your words are all blown away and appear to have no effect. My somewhat lengthy comment this morning at 8:46 feels like that. Also, I should learn not to reply to Harquebus as he seems to be locked into a Groundhog Day existence. Racist and religious commenters here seem to be likewise impervious to reason and facts. I really should be working on my book instead of compulsively returning here. 🙂

65. cornlegendNovember 19, 2016 at 5:51 pm

    Miriam English
    I always called it “pissing in the wind” when confronted by the “small circle “

66. Matters NotNovember 19, 2016 at 6:20 pm

    Seems to me that ‘education’, in part at least, is about being able to escape the limitations of your background. To realise that your view of the world is exactly that – your view of the world. To realise that is ‘scary and confronting’ for many. They would prefer to just keep watching the ‘shadows on the wall’ and if they do turn to the ‘light’, then many turn quickly back to the shadows.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTWwY8Ok5I0

    Pauline et al need to come out of the cave. It can be quite liberating.

67. diannaartNovember 19, 2016 at 7:21 pm

    Miriam

    Thank you for your kind words. You are one of the few I look forward to reading instead of with dread.

    I don’t post as often as I’d like and wish I had the energy to do more. In my above comment I had searched for links to add to my opinion and provided excerpts for each rather than expecting people to just click on my links. I always appreciate it when others do the same. List of links without any substantiation seems rather arrogant to me. As I was ending the post I thought what the eff am I doing this for? No one really reads anything unless it is to find fault. Do I really need to keep doing this?

    …and the answer is NO.

    I do believe I need a break, I will remain active elsewhere, because like you, the Jennifers, Kay Lee and others here, I care too bloody much. None of us deserve to be sucked dry by the doomsayers, the haters, the bullies or the jokers.

68. Steve Laing - makeourvoiceheard.comNovember 19, 2016 at 7:37 pm

    “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” Frank Herbert, Dune.

    The ability to overcome our fear – to circumvent our amygdala using the power of our cortex – is what “in most cases” separates us from other animals. What disgusts me are the politicians who will knowingly take advantage of those with least developed capability by using emotional levers to get them to bend to their will. Why use fact and logic, when fear and envy are easier to abuse. That might be considered an “elitist” attitude, but there is good reason why we don’t let dogs vote.

    Because our political classes have so abused our democratic processes, we are now not just standing on the cliff edge, but leaning over. And yet the mob has been manipulated to push us further, rather than pull us back. For all our brilliance as a species, it turns out we really are collectively fairly stupid.

69. AthenaNovember 19, 2016 at 7:38 pm

    “So good to see you viciously attacking One Nation. Good to know the paid Liberal National Party trolls are alive and well.”

    @ Anti-establishment

    I wouldn’t go near the LNP with a 40’pole. I’ll happily bash Pauline Hanson and One Nation for free. They’re playing you. They support tax cuts for the wealthy and making the unemployed wait 4 weeks for financial support. There’s a good reason why they don’t have an education policy, because they wouldn’t want their voters realising that they are full of crap. Congratulations on voting to screw up the future for your offspring.

70. BaiNovember 19, 2016 at 8:14 pm

    Harq, Dont you disagr with the photos on the page? If ask you to draw a cartoon of One nation’s supporters? Will they be a group of furious on faces, No well education white people who want to kick Non white out of Australia and lock the refugees far out behind of hevry wire fence mind of nowhere island。(furious face reason 1, Immigrants took those white’s jobs。2,Immigrants dont want to go back where they came from. Those furious have to shout loudlyand acting “tough”. 3,Those refugees bring Crime, rape killing and They are terrorists. they horrify.Etc). Imagine, There will be exactly the same surroundings, The people as the photos on here.

71. cornlegendNovember 19, 2016 at 8:48 pm

    It is interesting the news sources in other countries when reporting on Hansons mob at least steer away from the steroetype pics common in OZ
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/anti-islam-rallies-counter-protests-flare-in-australia/

72. HarquebusNovember 19, 2016 at 8:55 pm

    Diannart
    None of us can afford to give up, regardless of our individual differences and outlook.

    “If you’re going through hell, keep going.” — Winston Churchill

    Miriam English
    You have failed to convince me. I have not deliberately set out to disappoint you.

    Bai
    I’ve got some news for you. I am not a One Nations supporter.

    Cheers.

73. Matters NotNovember 19, 2016 at 10:38 pm

    diannaart, depart (temporarily) if you feel you must. But don’t do so on the misapprehension that your views are not read, appreciated and mentally responded to, even if there’s no written reaction. Just sayin …

74. Michael TaylorNovember 19, 2016 at 11:12 pm

    I endorse what MN said, and add that your opinions (by me) are highly valued.

75. silkwormNovember 21, 2016 at 1:10 am

    Does anyone know what Hanson’s views on 457 visas are?

76. JaquixNovember 21, 2016 at 5:25 am

    Silkworm – Hanson & Co vote with the Coalition virtually all the time, so it wouldnt matter what their “”policy” might be.

77. John BrameNovember 21, 2016 at 6:43 am

    The ‘Refugees are Welcome Here’ rally in october was inspiring. These peaceful marches are more important than ever. Let’s make the next october 2017 march the biggest ever.

78. Jack StrawNovember 21, 2016 at 7:39 am

    Silkworm Whatever her manipulators tell her to think.

79. Jack StrawNovember 21, 2016 at 9:02 am

    diannaart

    I visited Robinvale a few years ago. The place was reminiscent of the back streets of Baghdad or a Varanasi Bizarre.So there was no shock as to see the going on’s that was exposed on TV last week. Migrants being badly treated and being underpaid.