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It takes a certain type of woman to join the Liberal Party

Browsing through yesterday’s news, it struck me that it takes a certain type of woman to join the Liberal Party.

First, we had the story about Nola Marino, the Member for Forrest and Chief Government Whip.  She has also recently taken up a position on the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Agriculture and Water Resources.

Ms Marino had shares in a company that is to benefit from a $140 million government grant.  Despite including them in her register of pecuniary interests three times over the last decade, she updated the register in April, now claiming to have transferred the shares to her husband in 2008 who, coincidentally, sits on the board of one of the entities that will benefit from the grant.

Despite the apparent breach of the disclosure regime, Ms Marino did not accept she made an error.

In addition, property she owns is in the area set to benefit from the project which will deliver better quality water to members of South West Irrigation.  She and her husband are dairy farmers in the area.

Ms Marino does not see this as a conflict of interest because the dam isn’t in her electorate.

Then we had Sophie Mirabella crying in the dock at her defamation case where she is suing a journalist and a regional paper for saying she pushed Cathy McGowan out of a photo when she actually pushed Ken Wyatt to stop him from having his photo taken with Ms McGowan who was, at the time, the local member.

“This was accusing me of pushing an older woman … who could be … looks like she’s old enough to be an elder citizen, a grandmother,” said Sophie tearfully.  (Tony Windsor was right about her)

Mrs Mirabella said she told Mr Wyatt to tell Ms McGowan he didn’t have time for a photo and she accompanied him to deliver the message.

“We walk up to face Cathy and she’s standing in front of the plaque and Ken says to her, ‘Sorry, I don’t have time for a photo’,” Mrs Mirabella said.

“And she said, ‘Oh well, it’s OK, it’ll only take a minute’ and turned to me and said, ‘You don’t mind Sophie, do you?’

“I said, ‘Since you’ve asked, yes I do mind Cathy. If you wanted to have promotional material with a Liberal minister, you should have run for preselection’.

She then “placed her hands on Ken’s chest” and prevented him from taking part in the photograph.

And then, to round out the day, we had Kelly O’Dwyer going into damage control about her interview on Insiders where she was completely unable to admit that the government got it wrong in opposing the banking royal commission.

It only took her five days of an absolute lashing in the media, both mainstream and social, to come up with the admission that she got it wrong though it felt like she was talking more about the interview than her previous statements that it would be an expensive pointless exercise that would “do nothing for consumers”.

“With the benefit of hindsight we should have called it earlier, I am sorry we didn’t, and I regret not saying this when asked earlier this week.  The government did get the timing wrong. What we did get right though, was embarking on an urgent and comprehensive reform program to fix the problems that we knew about.”

Like trying to repeal the FOFA legislation?

I looked for news about Michaelia Cash and the court case about the televised AWU raid but she appears to still be in the ministerial protection program.

It seems Liberal women, like their male colleagues, suffer from a sense of entitlement that precludes accountability.


76 comments

  1. Cool Pete

    Liberal women are not really women. They are hard-hearted, dishonest, greedy beings with mummy parts. I mean, look at Cash, who would seriously find that attractive?

  2. babyjewels10

    Blatant thieves, just like LNP men.

  3. babyjewels10

    Cool Pete – I hate to break it to you but it’s not about being attractive. Have you looked at LNP men recently? They’re elected to do a job and their “parts” and attractiveness has nothing to do with it. As far as I’m concerned, they’re all just crooks in that party, men and women.

  4. Miriam English

    Their dishonesty is truly breathtaking, just as it is with their male fellows. What amazes me most, though, is that they want to belong to a boys’ club that despises women. What’s with that?

    Women make up just 22 per cent of Liberals in Federal Parliament whereas women make up more than 50% of the general population.

  5. Terry2

    Sophie just couldn’t resist attacking Cathy McGowan, a far more effective , thoughtful, independent and hard working parliamentarian.

    This was accusing me of pushing an older woman … who could be … looks like she’s old enough to be an elder citizen, a grandmother.

    I imagine the judge will have noted this casual insult when he evaluates her veracity as a a litigant who has been defamed and seeks redress.

    Not a good move, Sophie !

  6. Arthur Tarry

    ‘Birds of a feather flock together’ , regardless of whether they are male or female.

  7. Shutterbug

    One word fits the description “It takes a certain type of woman to join the Liberal Party”.
    Feral.

  8. helvityni

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder…

    If anything the above picture is a warning: Be aware, we are Liberal Ladies we are Oz aristocracy…LOL..

    The too big bottoms, or unbecoming hairstyles are bad but only if you are from the Left; our Amanda is just the right size and there is absolutely nothing wrong with Michaelia’s or Kelly’s hair…not even with Pauline’s…we need her help at times…

  9. Terry2

    And then you have, from today’s SMH “the poster girl for right-wing politics in this country, calls former prime ministers Tony Abbott and John Howard friends, is a regular guest panellist on ABC’s The Drum, is a board director of the Australia Council and is the executive associate of the impressively titled conservative think-tank The Ramsay Centre for Western Civilisation. But there is one thing Rebecca Weisser is adamant she is not: an assailant”.

    Rebecca “Weisser has entered a plea of not guilty to a charge of common assault following an alleged incident involving residents at the Kirribilli apartment building that she calls home with her husband, fellow conservative commentator Nick Cater”.

    Birds of a feather alright !

  10. Kaye Lee

    For me, being attractive has nothing to do with looks and everything to do with what comes out of your mouth and how you treat others.

    On that criterion, these ladies are U.G.L.Y. they ain’t got no alibi they ugly, uh huh, they ugly.

  11. paul walter

    Yes. It is a cultural thing, somehow to do with pathology at worst.

    Involves entitlement combined with ignorance, one sex mirrors the other, vice versa, for crass loudness, venality, vanity, a chilling lack of empathy, unconsciousness and lack of self reflexivity, self absorption and avarice.

  12. Kaye Lee

    Terry2,

    Another of my favourites from yesterday was Janet Albrechtsen writing a column titled “I have to admit a slight girl-crush on ACTU boss Sally McManus”.

    McManus tweeted “She’s really not my type,”

    How trivial one woman is in comparison to the other.

  13. helvityni

    …and when the Drum needs a good woman from the Right, we get Judith Sloan, Weisser or Downer’s daughter,( her name eludes me…)

  14. paul walter

    Good one Helvi.

    Just about to mention Overington and Bolt as examples from the propaganda wing.

    And yes, Terry 2, the likes of Credlin and Devine as well as Alan Jones and Chris Kenny.

  15. Graeme Henchel

    When it comes to the coalition it matters not what sex they are. The only prerequisite is that they are liars

  16. Geoff Andrews

    Beauty is only skin deep but ugly goes right to the bone.

  17. Henry Rodrigues

    The reason I think, is that the ‘women’ of the coalition are striving and succeeding to be as nasty and disreputable as the ‘men’, it must be one of the pre-requisites to join the party of bastards. No wonder the party is infested with such vile creatures.

  18. Pierre Wilkinson

    what is happening with Michaelia Cash? and that other brave whistle blower, champion of the right, Cathy Jackson? seems all the Labor players have had their day in court, the unions fully investigated, mud flung far and wide yet neither of these two look like facing their peer anytime soon…

  19. Kaye Lee

    Jackson is due to return to court on May 14 for a further directions hearing but will probably not face a jury until 2019 sometime. She is asking for legal aid because of her “dire” financial position.

    Re Cash: “Federal Court Justice Anthony North ruled the trial could not start next Monday [March 26] as planned because of the ongoing investigation by the Australian Federal Police (AFP). The court heard the AFP investigation was still three or fours months from completion.”

    It’s amazing how slowly these cases move.

  20. @RosemaryJ36

    Kaye – Much as I would like to see Mirabella in the dock facing criminal charges, she was actually in the witness box in relation to a civil action for defamation which she initiated which she initiated. Sadly, the calibre of the women who join the Liberal party speaks volumes about the quality of the policies that party pursues.

  21. helvityni

    paul walter
    April 28, 2018 at 8:58 am, you are to be congratulated; you found more than the mere seven sins…

  22. Terry2

    Kaye

    Kathy Jackson has used every device available to avoid and delay her day in court and has been able to shed her assets to avoid paying the damages awarded against her in the civil action and now I have no doubt that when the time comes in her criminal trial her barrister will argue that justice delayed is justice denied and she’ll ask for a reduced sentence.

    The question is, if she calls Tony Abbott and Chrissy Pyne as character witnesses will that act in her favour or against her ?

  23. paul walter

    Helvityni, they are horrible people. I could add dozens of character descriptors.

    As for Kathy Jackson, is it that people like this are a reason for the slow uptake of Labor in the wake of the LNP’s failures?

  24. Kronomex

    Mirabella still has the shits even after the last election because the peasants of Indi DID NOT re-elect her. A spiteful and unpleasant bag of tricks with a giant chip on her shoulder who has a silk cushion job being a mouthpiece for Gina.

  25. stephengb2014

    What you see in the LNP members, is an absolute belief in elitism, of heredity rights, and classes of people.

    Theirs is a world of special people deserving of special rights, others are not special and thus do not deserve special rights.

    LNP supporters among the lower classes are those who also believe in elitism and fall for the line that you too can be elite if you believe in theor special rights and accunulate lots of money at someone elses expense.

    These parasites believe it is their right to exploite others and their positions to prove their special position and right, whilst the “others” deserve to be exploited because it’s simple – they are not one of ‘us’.

  26. Glenn Barry

    paul walter – gotta love Chris Kenny, especially for supercilious thinking and self importance – he distinguished himself when on Q&A back in January, complained about ABC left wing bias.

    On the panel with him at the time were John Hewson – former liberal leader, Linda Reynolds – current liberal senator and himself a former liberal staffer…versus Terri Butler – Labor and Van Badham – guardian, Van Badham ridiculed him for it, deservedly so!!

    Gotta love the LNP because what they lack in self awareness they make for in stupidity.

    OOPS – forgot to add, I also subscribe to the notion that the special as per lnp membership is a euphemism for disgusting

  27. paul walter

    Glenn, I remember that one. Badham exploded in his face.

    Terri Butlers eyeball rolls were epic, as with John Hewsons. Linda Reynolds, hip pocket on a singlet.

  28. diannaart

    Exactly, Kaye Lee

    Just thinking of people I have known who became more and more beautiful the longer I knew them, conversely the people I first saw as attractive become extremely repulsive as their true natures became all too apparent.

    That said, surely it is a case of true equality within the LNP fold, not of gender but of character – the ‘men’ and ‘women’ are equally vile.

  29. Roger Wong

    Keep up the good work AIMN network. Your critical, investigative journalism is what we need in this country.

  30. king1394

    Liberal women have been protected by their menfolk from the realities of the world. Coming from wealthy families with fathers who were influential politicians (such as Ms Downer) and marrying money following an education at an exclusive private school where they mix only with females of their own class, they make their way into Parliament as token females for Liberal party back benches. Now that it is becoming expected that these women can actually speak and run departments, it can be seen that their limited life experience and sheltered, often dependent, backgrounds make them fit only to parrot the phrases and ideology that they have been trained into, Their major role is to look decorative as they nod behind a male, and many of them do that quite well

  31. Alan Stobie

    Not to mention the delightful Julie Bishop, she of the stare, the claw, the boyfriend/partner/family/friend (or whatever he is so she can claim him on our pockets) and the half a million bucks she got for being “Glorious” in the eyes of some Rich Chinese – and yes, female – benefactor .
    Oh, and I’m new here after being and AIMN fan for yonks. Love you all, especially Kaye Lee (who has never written a dud word), and Helvityni, who always makes me smile

  32. Mr Denmore

    I’m not sure it’s about gender. The Liberal Party has been overtaken by a nasty, greedy, vindictive ideology that attracts nasty, greedy, vindictive human beings devoid of charm or compassion. Perhaps some of the women seem particularly vile because, like women in many other walks of life, they have to exhibit the group values and attitudes more intensely than the average male politician to win acceptance and promotion. For instance, it seems pretty clear that O’Dwyer was thrown under a bus by Turnbull and Morrison to do that Insiders interview with a set of talking points that even the most astute political spinner would have struggled to sell. Cash, like Turnbull, seems to have no functioning political radar. Like many in the Liberal Party caucus now, the game is all about appeasing a dying and unrepresentative base of reactionary old white men. Mirabella, on the other hand, seems to be just a rotten human being, pure and simple. The Libs weren’t always like this. Judi Moylan, who retired from parliament in 2013 and who like Cash is a West Australian, was a moderate and progressive voice in the party during the Howard years, as was Judith Troeth, a Victorian. So I think the real issue is the takeover of the Liberal Party and its Coalition partner by a nasty, reactionary right-wing strain of US-style culture war politics. If you are a woman of political ambition in the Liberal Party, you are going to be tempted to exhibit the behaviours rewarded by that political tribe.

  33. Rhonda

    They are all foul. Helvityni, from memory the Downer sprog is Georgia or Georgina ..not that I care a jot. I only know because they are trotted out all the friggin time! They.are.all.foul

  34. Glenn Barry

    Mr Denmore – eloquent summary – the LNP demise is Howard’s legacy

  35. paul walter

    Mr Denmore, have at think about where king1394′ s comment leads, as to social conditioning and cultural individuation.

    I.m not disagreeing with your point btw, but trying to build upon it.

    king1394’s idea adds critically but I think it is interesting that while Cash and Turnbull’s lack of “political radar” occurs against the backdrop of extreme rat-cunning; a curious juxtaposition that emerges from social and cultural factors that create a continuing, also processive, reactive soup amenable to resolution from our side of the fence as to the understanding

  36. Michael Taylor

    Mr Denmore, good to see you after all these years.

  37. Keith-E

    You think that Labour women are actually any different? Politicians all have a certain type. Some may get into it to help others, but most are in it for the pay and the perks. You only get to meet the real person after they leave the party and don’t have to blindly follow the party line. There aren’t many good ones any more.

  38. paul walter

    I think so Keith. But the gap is narrowing as the political culture kills any loyalty to humanity of community. Male and female, they all seem corrupted by that power culture.

  39. Kaye Lee

    Mr Denmore,

    I totally agree. People like Judi Moylan will never get anywhere in the Liberal Party because she spoke her mind. She sometimes disagreed with the men in suits and wasn’t afraid to say so. Sharman Stone suffered a similar fate. The nasty women were dragged out when Gillard accused Abbott of misogyny. They thought it was a better look if the women defended him so they went on the attack. Who could forget Cash’s screeching tirade at Penny Wong

    “The sisterhood stabbing one of their own in the back. You’ve always got to like that, don’t you? When the sisterhood stab one of their own in the back … I wonder how loud former prime minister Gillard screamed when her own sisterhood knifed her in the back and took her out – minister Wong is now sitting reaping the spoils of the victory, drinking from the chalice of blood ..”

    Mirabella is just a nasty nasty woman….

    For example, she called Malcolm Fraser a “frothing-at-the-mouth leftie”, ridiculed Gillard for her childlessness, and told fellow Coalition member Bill Heffernan to “pop your Alzheimer’s pills”.

    O’Dwyer is just a mouthpiece.

  40. Kyran

    The interesting part of the article linked in to yours is the bit about IA’s assessment;
    “The project was assessed by Infrastructure Australia last year.
    Despite identifying the project as a “priority project” and praising its economic potential, the independent infrastructure adviser described the case for public funding as “not clear”.
    “The benefits to users are predominantly private, accruing to [project owner] Collie Water, [the state’s] Water Corporation and agricultural producers,” the document, released in November, reads.
    “It is not clear how Australian Government funding would address a market failure which could not be addressed by the proponent, private sector or WA Government.”
    MPs who breach the rules governing the register of interests face a charge of “serious contempt” of the House of Representatives.”

    We have a government advocate failing to disclose a personal interest whilst reprioritizing government spending without economic benefit analysis. Quelle surprise.
    I’m curious about gender being a ‘different measure’ of poor behaviour. Mr Lord recently wrote a piece expressing disgust about the Andrews government’s corrupt behaviour. The behaviour was ‘politically acceptable’ in terms of precedence, but unacceptable because the standard should be higher for ‘one of your own’.

    https://theaimn.com/day-to-day-politics-when-your-own-side-does-it/

    There is a really good book by Ms Jamila Rizvi, “Not Just Lucky (Why women do the work but don’t take the credit)”. It is doubly pertinent as Ms Rizvi worked for both the Rudd & Gillard governments. There most definitely has to be a rebalance, not just to address systemic issues of inequality, but to address gender conditioning from birth (toys, clothes, acceptable bad behaviour due to gender (‘Boys will be boys’, said while the child is beating the living shite out of someone), presentation, self perception, etcetera). We’ve come a long way from Billy Joel’s plaintive plea;

    “She can kill with a smile, she can wound with her eyes
    She can ruin your faith with her casual lies
    And she only reveals what she wants you to see
    She hides like a child but she’s always a woman to me
    She can lead you to love, she can take you or leave you
    She can ask for the truth but she’ll never believe you
    And she’ll take what you give her as long as it’s free
    Yeah she steals like a thief but she’s always a woman to me”

    Ms Moylan was a wonderful example of intellect and conscience being able to flourish as mutually complementary, rather than exclusive. It is interesting to note the ALP will be looking at asylum seeker policy in their upcoming congress. If that is due to the recent inclusion of intellects and consciences such as Ms Ged Kearney and Ms Kristina Keneally, fanf*ckingtastic. I can’t help but think of the enormous change effected by women in the North of Ireland in bringing peace, however tenuous, to a troubled area.
    Whether or not conservative thinking and behaviour tends to attract a particular type of person seems beyond doubt. This may sound somewhere between ridiculously naïve hopelessly wishful, but I can’t wait for the day that the standard of that behaviour is the sole arbiter as to whether the behaviour is acceptable.
    We have come a ways, but we have a way to go. Martin Luther King Jnr was a dreamer. And a misogynist and a ‘womaniser’. In one book, it was said his faults emphasised his humanity and his shortcomings made him real.
    “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”
    He had two sons and two daughters that he considered likely to be prejudged on the colour of their skin, but never mentioned that their gender would be cause for prejudgement. Fifty years later, the content of character is still prejudged through so many filters.
    This is not intended as a critique in any way of your article, which I fully concur with. It is more an observation as to how things are perceived.
    For example, this banking RC. The banks are notoriously conservative and very ‘male dominated’. The glass ceiling is not only double glazed but there are many impediments to getting anywhere near the top. So few women in the upper echelons. Yet the majority of bank executives appearing before the RC (on the nightly news) have been women. One bloke got prominence, mostly because he passed out. Maybe I’m too cynical, but it’s one heck of a coincidence.
    Thank you Ms Lee and commenters. Take care

  41. Yvonne Robertson

    Tony Abbott. Eric Abetz. Christopher Pyne. Peter Dutton. Scott Morrison. Ian McDonald. Corey Bernardi (formerly LNP). Malcolm Turnbull. Why limit it to gender?

  42. Kaye Lee

    “Why limit it to gender?”

    It was just the stories reported that day that led to a gender focus though I do think, to be a female member of the Liberal Party, you have to accept being sidelined and sacrificed. Julie Bishop’s department has been basically neutered. Kelly O’Dwyer was sent out as a sacrificial lamb despite reportedly being the first person in cabinet to bring up having a banking RC. Bishop and Cash go to unnecessary lengths to assure us they aren’t feminists – why? Too threatening? It seems to me that women in the Liberal Party feel grateful for the bones they are thrown rather than having any sort of real influence

    (There may also be a touch of “the standard should be higher for ‘one of your own’.” as Kyran put it)

  43. paul walter

    I think Yvonne was being a little unfaIr in not reading through the comments section through first.

  44. diannaart

    Imagine the contortions ‘women who want to be part of the LNP’, go through, as mentioned above; willingness to be scapegoated or have career trajectory sidelined again and again.

    Just the every day banality of working with some of the most retrograde males (apart from men in the finance sector)… all those stale old jokes… pretending to laugh as if hearing “take my wife, please” for the very first time.

    … takes a certain type of woman…

  45. helvityni

    ” It is interesting to note the ALP will be looking at asylum seeker policy in their upcoming congress. If that is due to the recent inclusion of intellects and consciences such as Ms Ged Kearney and Ms Kristina Keneally, fanf*ckingtastic”

    Flocking them to other countries is not so ‘fanf*ckingtastic’, but I’m pleased to have Ged Kearney and Kristina Keneally over there in Canberra….

    Talking about the other side, in the past they had at least people like Moylan and Hewson, now there’s none….

  46. helvityni

    …oops ‘flogging’, not flocking…

  47. Kaye Lee

    helvityni,

    I will also be interested to hear what they propose. I am sure some detainees would be happy to go to America or New Zealand, Maybe there are other places that would be agreeable to them that might assist. Canada perhaps? But what happens to the ones who are left? We have several onshore detention centres lying idle. That’s no solution but it may be a temporary fix until sanity prevails.

    They could get medical treatment and the kids could go to school. And hopefully they would be safe from physical attack by the guards or the locals. I hate even suggesting it. They should be able to come here as free people,

  48. Kaye Lee

    Speaking of Judi Moylan, this is what she had to say about asylum seekers in 2013….

    “It’s very difficult when both sides of the political spectrum are intent on a race to the bottom, as I see it, to the policy bag. And I think now, nothing short of a public campaign saying this is just unacceptable is going to create any change.”

    “I think sometimes the public doesn’t understand the power they have to make their views known to their member of parliament, their local member of parliament and to the ministers who are responsible for making the decisions in this place”

    “I would suggest there are probably moral obligations that we are not meeting as well by taking that course of action to sort of warehouse people in another country because we don’t want to deal with the problem.”

    “I don’t know why we can’t have a decent and comprehensive policy approach to this that treats people as a priority that treats people humanely, that puts at the centre of the policy making the perseveration of human life and human dignity.”

    https://www.sbs.com.au/news/liberal-mp-judi-moylan-slams-regressive-asylum-laws

    Which may explain why she is no longer there….though we sure as hell need her.

  49. Miriam English

    Judi Moylan sounds amazing. The kind of politician we need more of.

    As for why people feel we have no ability to influence politicians, I think this is a situation caused by politicians themselves. With hundreds of thousands of people protesting about invading Iraq, goddamn Howard went to war anyway. The current crop of imbeciles in parliament ignoring the nearly 70% of Australians who are in favor of marriage equality. Their resistance to 82% of Australians wanting no tax giveaways for wealthy corporations. The government’s targeting of charities in order to cripple GetUp, 350.org, Greenpeace, LockTheGate, and other citizen mouthpieces…

  50. New England Cocky

    Amoral, immoral, self-serving, egocentric, never let the law stand in the way of a quick personal profit …yep!! That sounds like a male Liarbral Party supporter. Now the representatives of the Notional$ are different; they have family centred values like adultery is OK in Canberra (and anywhere else you can’t it), rorting Parliamentary Allowances for any reason (overseas weddings, family travel, cigarettes etc) is just stabling & fodder expenses of the job …..and water theft? Well, that is OK because he paid a small donation to the Notional$ Party to prevent prosecution …. and who cares about the plight of downstream farmers when your local NW NSW & Queensland mates need to make even bigger profits????

  51. Glenn Barry

    Miriam, I think you’ve nailed it, they’ve taken our apathy and transformed it into futility

  52. Trish Corry

    Really? You had to write a gendered slur to make the point Liberals of both genders have a sense of entitlement? That is to do with the rorting of a corrupt system, and a value system from being born into privilege, and their ideology based on individualism not gender! Should Liberal women, based on their views of individualism and self determination be polite and smile when they are told to? Is it at all possible that the same noise would not have been made about a male MP avoiding questions if it wasn’t O’Dwyer? Are you saying this is a society where Liberal women are not acting “pure” and they have should no free thought to Rort the system as much as the men do? The entire article is void of any type of gender based analysis as to why liberal women should act differently to liberal men, or what their actions have to do with being a woman. You have presented no argument at all. It just reads “Oh look at those horrible women doing stuff we turn a blind eye to men doing” When we said “It stops with me” after Gillard, we were supposed to mean it! Shame on anyone praising this article, particularly any who were angry at the treatment of Gillard.

  53. Kaye Lee

    LOL Trish. How predictable of you

    You are right. There was no gender based analysis in the article, just commentary on the news stories of the day which concluded with the comment “Liberal women, like their male colleagues, suffer from a sense of entitlement that precludes accountability”

    And I was fighting for gender equality before you were born so thanks for the advice but it’s unnecessary. I really wish you would learn how to express your opinion without being so combative and dismissive.

  54. Jack

    Lucky KL wrote this. A male would’ve copped a keyboard bashing for this

  55. helvityni

    …and I detest them, both male and female Right-wing politicians of today, equally…

    That is not to say that there hasn’t been any good ones in the past…see Moylan (female), Hewson (male)….

  56. Miriam English

    Trish, that’s a strange response to have. Why is your first reaction so often to attack? I thought Kaye’s short article was nicely summed up by its final sentence: “It seems Liberal women, like their male colleagues, suffer from a sense of entitlement that precludes accountability.”

    Do you disagree with the point she was making? I’m not sure of the point that your comment was making. Were you saying we are wrong to notice when women do the bad things that men do? Are you saying it’s not strange that women would want to belong to a club (the LNP) that systematically degrades them and despises them?

    Mr Denmore made the comment that some of the Liberal women aren’t bad — he gave the examples of Judi Moylan and Judith Troeth. In a following comment Kaye enlarged upon Judi Moylan, showing that she indeed seemed to be a good human being, who sadly appears to have been crushed by the party machine.

  57. Trish Corry

    I did not even see who wrote it. Now I’m actually quite surprised.

    My position is, if you want to gender something and blame women, at least have the decency to frame it with reasoning. It’s not about being good or bad, it’s about using a platform to frame women in a certain way, when it has absolutely nothing to do with their gender. It would have been a better article if it was framed around, privilege and their values of self-determination and individualism or even liberal woman who are vocal about not being feminist.

    I just see zero point in using a platform to imply woman are so horrible when they are doing exactly what the men in the party do. It adds nothing for women in general.

    Women are still women if they sit on the right!

  58. Trish Corry

    I’m a bit over the accusations of me “attacking” Kaye every time I comment. Her work is hardly above criticism. I’ve got a right to comment on articles as much as the people who think they own the comment section and tell others how to comment or tell others what they are “allowed” to say to whom. Criticism is not aggression, nor is it abuse. My points are valid criticisms. I can only imagine if a right wing male wrote such an article about left wing women. Feminism includes all women – not just the ones we like!

  59. Kaye Lee

    This article is about the actions of three individuals who happened to be in the news that day (and one who was notable for her absence). They also all happen to be women who belong to the Liberal Party. I am not “blaming” them for anything except their actions. I don’t know what you mean by “It adds nothing for women in general.” or “women are still women if they sit on the right”. How is that, or feminism, relevant to the news stories that the article is based on? Being women does not make them immune from criticism.

    Of course you are entitled to express your opinion. I’m not so sure that you are entitled to self-assess it as valid.

    And do you see any irony in complaining about people who “tell others how to comment or tell others what they are “allowed” to say to whom” when you just got through writing “Shame on anyone praising this article,”

    whistling

  60. Trish Corry

    Why are you now trying to paint this article as now not being about a slur on right wing women, and not being a gendered article but “about women in the news” 🙄

    Making a statement of disgust about praising a practice of gendering for no reason abhorrent, is a far cry from experiencing attacks and accusations, from a certain group of people every time I make a comment on your articles. Or you complaining I’m being dismissive or aggressive when my comments are valid criticisms of your work. You are a blogger Kaye, not Jana Wendt and not Oscar Wilde. Everyone else is just expected to take criticism, sometimes really nasty, gang mentality criticism but not you. Not you Kaye. Can’t even mention a comma is out of place!

    Validity of criticism comes with being able to demonstrate the gaps or weaknesses in either the article or writing, which I have clearly done. Unless of course you believe it’s ok to vilify women and making their (negative) actions about gender, just because they are not on your side of politics without any justification. Oh which you just did when you wrote this article.

    And I’ll say it again, but I will add, Shame on you for writing this piece and shame on anyone applauding it. It’s a pity you can’t take criticism Kaye, it is essential for a writer’s development. Whether you agree with the criticism or not, most writers can usually take something from it. I know I do. Even from the happy hate club who respond to mine. Constant faux praise is not helpful!

  61. Michael Taylor

    I applaud this article, and I feel no shame in doing so.

    Do I think it is sexist? Absolutely not.

    I don’t see it as any different than saying “It takes a certain type of man to volunteer to fight for his country” (as my Dad did), or “It takes a certain type of lady to be a great Labor PM” (as Julia was).

    Trish, your comment at 5:49 reeks of nastiness. Don’t go away crying if it comes back at you in spades.

  62. Kaye Lee

    Goodness me. I am not sure any response from me to that tirade would be of any interest to our readers or any use to our discussion.

    As I said before, you are entitled to your opinion.

  63. Glenn Barry

    I am applauding this article shamelessly and very very loudly!

  64. Miriam English

    Trish, I’m genuinely puzzled at your response. Nobody has said you’re not entitled to respond, but I do think your attack was unjustified. (Yes, attack — despite your protests. I defy you to read your comments aloud and not hear them as attacks). Genuine criticism is to be welcomed. And Kaye does accept correction. As I pointed out above, there was a correction to the article made by Mr Denmore. What was Kaye’s reaction to it? She embraced it and enlarged upon it.

    I don’t understand why you feel it’s okay for you go in for attack, yet when others try to gently disagree with you or question you, you rail against them as if they’re attacking you and telling you how to comment. I did neither. Read my comment again in full.

    I’ve re-read your initial comment a few times now and I’m still not exactly certain what you’re quarrelling with. As nearly as I can tell, it seems to be, “How dare you comment on women doing bad things. You should restrict yourself to saying people do bad things without gender distinction.” Strangely, I get the feeling the article wouldn’t have raised your eyebrow if it was about men in the Liberal party doing bad things.

    Standing up for women is important, but that doesn’t mean it’s off-limits to call out bad behavior in some women — women who give the rest of us a bad name. They hurt us all. They should not be airbrushed over for fear of upsetting… what? I’m not entirely sure… sisterhood?

  65. Matters Not

    Learnt a while ago not to enter such debates. There’s the danger of being considered part of a clique. Hilarious!

    But am always interested in the ways various contributors **construct their own rea… ** and then accuse others of … whatever. Best I leave it at that. LOL.

  66. Kaye Lee

    Perhaps the title of the article was misleading.

    It came about because those very different stories were all in the news on the same day and the thing linking them was that they all involved women in the Liberal Party showing a lack of accountability. That is certainly not a gender-based fault.

  67. paul walter

    Illogical stuff from Corry, 12.48.

    The mind boggles, truly.

  68. Matters Not

    MT re:

    I applaud this article

    Reminds me of the United States where candidates for office assert somewhere in their political ads – as legally required:

    I approve this message

    Can’t be a valid cognitive association because everyone knows that this site is above politics – broadly defined. LOL.

  69. LOVO

    “It takes a certain kinda woman “. ..ain’t it always the way 😃
    Kaye Lee, you ain’ts no Trish Corry…(no kidd’n)
    Trish Corry, you ain’ts no Kaye Lee… (no kidd’n)
    I love listening to both of ‘youse’…though I don’t always agree with what ya say…but mostly I does, ay (sic)
    Ya’s are, mostly, on the same side/page….ffs…😲
    … anyhoo…onwards..always.. onwards, I’m sure you’ll agree…..and yet! 😆

  70. helvityni

    If people commit crimes, lie, abuse others, they are bad regardless of gender, be they men ,women,or anything in-between…

    Ever since I started blogging, I have been abused by same fellow FEMALE blogger writing using various pseudos on various blogs. I used defend myself, then learnt that the best thing is to ignore her and not engage….even when she appears harmless. Saves time and upsets….

    LOVO, LOL

  71. Kaye Lee

    I think the most astute observation in this discussion came from Mr Denmore……

    “I’m not sure it’s about gender. The Liberal Party has been overtaken by a nasty, greedy, vindictive ideology that attracts nasty, greedy, vindictive human beings devoid of charm or compassion. Perhaps some of the women seem particularly vile because, like women in many other walks of life, they have to exhibit the group values and attitudes more intensely than the average male politician to win acceptance and promotion.”

  72. Kaye Lee

    Wyatt said that, at a June 2017 federal Liberal council meeting, Mirabella told him “we need to get our evidence right”.

    “I said ‘the comment is inappropriate, I am a justice of peace’ and the conversation ceased,” he told the court on Monday.

    Mirabella told the court previously she did not raise such a conversation.

    Wyatt said he had been willing to have a photo with McGowan, the sitting member who unseated Mirabella in 2013, at the opening of new wing at an aged-care facility at Benalla.

    “Ms Mirabella came over and asked me not to have a photo with Cathy,” he said. “She placed her hands over the middle of my chest for about one minute.

    “If I’d move to turn there would have been pressure exerted either way.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2018/apr/30/sophie-mirabella-case-ken-wyatt-says-former-mp-approached-him-to-get-evidence-right

    Mrs Mirabella secretly recorded a conversation she had with Mr Wyatt on the sidelines of a federal Liberal council meeting in Sydney last year.

    Mrs Mirabella said she wanted to get Mr Wyatt on the record saying that he had not been pushed.

    She told the jury he confirmed she had not pushed him but said she had put her hands on his chest.

    “I’m a touchy person,” she said.

    Under cross-examination, Mrs Mirabella denied it was deceitful to have recorded the conversation without telling Mr Wyatt.

    “It was a chance encounter … there were people around us, they could have listened, they could have joined in if they wanted to,” she said.

    “It was not some secret little meeting somewhere.”

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-04-27/sophie-mirabella-cathy-mcgowan-benalla-ensign-defamation/9702608

    For a lawyer, Mirabella is not very adept at wooing support

  73. paul walter

    what we used to call “bourgeois values” before left discourse got banished for exceptionalism.

  74. diannaart

    @ Kaye Lee

    Nothing wrong with your title selection, you could’ve headed it “Most of the LNP are Dicks – Even the Women” and someone would find fault.

    🙂

    As for Mr Denmore’s

    The Liberal Party has been overtaken by a nasty, greedy, vindictive ideology that attracts nasty, greedy, vindictive human beings devoid of charm or compassion.

    I believe, now I could be completely wrong – nothing unusual there – but I thought most of us were making the same point; like attracts like.

    In the case of the contemporary LNP (because in a not so distant past there were conservatives who actually cared for the nation they governed) self-entitled, greedy men will often attract women of a similar ilk.

    As noted by Miriam English, criticising some women does not mean ALL women are being criticised – I recall many times when I had to point out similar when criticising SOME men.

    Indeed many women have had similar experiences of being stalked by other women. There are some real c*nts out there. And we will continue to OUT them.

  75. Kaye Lee

    I don’t think the women mentioned in the article behaved badly because they are women. I don’t think all women behave badly. I am not implying that the men behave differently. I really can’t understand accusations of a gender-based slur. I would accept that it is a slur against the current Liberal Party. As you say diannaart, like attracts like.

  76. paul walter

    I thought of this after Julia Banks. Is this the sort of cretin you had in mind?

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