Forget Halal, I’ve Discovered Something Much More Sinister!

January 16, 2015
Written by: Rossleigh
74 Replies

Comment from an AIMN Reader:

“I gather this is a green/ labor/ pc site due to the unpatriotic, slimy ,lying , vicious remarks on it.What a lot of traitors you are.LPickering is the only one in Oz to tell it like it is..apart from Andrew Bolt.You dhimmis will find that sharia law will not be to your liking, but you are making your beds…lie on them! and enjoy the discomfort! The ‘brain’? who wrote the main article here twists things to suit his own twisted thinking…shame on you…I am disgusted by the traitors in this country.Pity the laws we had in place during the last world war ,aren’t still in place…you would all be in gaol! If you don’t love Australia, go and live in a Muslim country.Oh no! you can’t do that…there is no welfare there! says it all! You make me ashamed and sick! What has our country come down to?”

This reader caused me to take a good hard look at myself. Lately there have been a few comments from people telling us that anyone who writes for this site is a “bloody moronic wanker” who is just repeating the guff from the ABC and the sooner that it’s shut down the better. Also, like the ABC, we don’t tolerate alternative points of view and inhibit their freedom of speech, because some have commented on their posts saying such oppressive things as you’re just repeating yourself or why don’t you back up your opinion with some facts.

Well, I’m nothing if I’m not fair and balanced, so I had a look at the sites of some of the people who tell it like it is and know what’s what with regard to Sharia Law and Halal, and I was going to write one of those things where we sort fact from fiction. You know the sort of ten myths about Halal, where I tell people that you can’t actually spread it on your toast, but it was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.

However, as I looked into the food industry, I discovered a shocking, shocking thing. There is another group in this country that are trying to impose their un-Australian beliefs on us all. I’m talking about vegans. Or vegetarians, as they’re more commonly known.

Now some of you will be saying that not all vegetarians are vegans, but all vegans are vegetarians, and until they distance themselves from the actions of the vegan movement, then I think that it’s only reasonable to lump them all together.

I know at this point, some of you will be tempted to comment, reminding us all that Hitler was a vegetarian. Please don’t. We all know this, and it’ll just sidetrack this important discussion into arguments about Godwin’s Law.

What’s so bad about vegetarians, or even vegans? some of you will be asking. Yes, it can be annoying when you’re catering for a large group of people and you have to consider their “special” diets, while you remember that the diggers fought and died so we could all be the same and eat the same sausages and meat pies. There were no vegie burgers at Galllipolli.

But the truth is far more insidious. This group is trying to impose its will on all of us. Here’s a snippet from a teenager I interviewed at a popular fast food joint.

“Yeah, well, me mum doesn’t like me eating here too much, she’s always been on about the food not being… ah, nutritious, or something. I remember as a little kid, she was always on about me eating vegetables and shit, and I wasn’t alllowed to eat my meat sometimes until I’d finished my vegies… She used to do things when I was very young where she pretended that the vegies were planes… It was really disgusting the lengths she went to, but she’s not a vegetarian or anything. She didn’t realise how they were brainwashing her, and subtlety making all food nutritous!“

Not only is this fundamentalist movement trying to make food “nutritous”, but I discovered that a percentage of all money spent on vegetables helps support those farmers growing them. Admittedly, it’s only a small percentage, and thanks to action by our big supermarkets, it’s getting less all the time, but how do you feel knowing that your money is supporting the activities of people who’d consider a tomato a fruit?

Some of you will be thinking that you’ve had nutrious food, and it wasn’t so bad, but that’s just the tip of the iceberg. If it caught on, we could have large numbers of fast food establishments put out of business, leading to the end of the only industry that still employs Australian youth.

No, we need to take a stand. We need patriotic Australians to band together this Australia Day – don’t let it be renamed Rum Rebellion Day# to appease the Left. Come on people, plonk the sauce on your pie and hold your sausages high. (Mm, that rhymes, perhaps an Australia Day anthem could be penned from that humble beginning.)

Unpatriotic, moi? C’est absurd.

#The Rum Rebellion, where an unpopular Governnor Bligh was overthrown – also occured on January 26th. Some have suggested that this would be an occasion that – unlike the landing of the First Fleet – we could all celebrate. Especially Julie Bishop.

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babyjewels10January 16, 2015 at 10:12 am

Lately, there’s something that scares me far more than terrorism. A certain breed of Australians. I’ll say no more.

mark delmegeJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:17 am

I’m looking for a joke about vegan virgins and how many can you get around a table for eight but i kept getting distracted on porn sites. Its amazing how much stuff you get for free these days.

nickthiwerspoonJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:18 am

Cretinism is everywhere. But you know the AIMN is becoming important when you start to get comments like that. It’s a badge of honour when brain-dead nongs, who’ve drunk the Kool-Aid to the lees, attack you. Congratulations.

Sue-EllenJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:23 am

Love your work. However, I will point out that it is my understanding, Bligh was overthrown by powerful rich colonials such as Macarthur because he was trying to challenge their strangle hold on the colony. He supported the poor farmers many of them ex convicts and many of whom signed a letter in his support. The Eureka Stockade was probably a better example for your lefty point.

selwyn smithJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:34 am

Eureka was the start of the trouble. Business people who believed they did have to contribute towards society as a whole

John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:37 am

Thank dog you remembered halal !

Every day I get beaten with a lump of halal tofu by the (they don't know it) extreme right wing fanatics.

The sooner Abbott does a backflip and declares halal to be "Team Australia" the sooner he will be canonised by Frank.

Hope that doesn't sound Charlie Hebdo like.

John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:41 am

The Rum Rebellion ?

More like "The Rum Diary" by Hunter S. Thompson.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376136/

Which coincidentally was on tv here in Brisbane last night.

Florence nee FedupJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:42 am

What was the aim of the tax, that got up the miners nose. Was it to ensure only the rich had the right to dig? Was it to raise revenue for the good of all?

unsimplelifeJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:51 am

hahaha, this is great. Happy Straya Day.

Paul G. DellitJanuary 16, 2015 at 11:12 am

A thread that runs through all such right wing diatribes is that anyone to the left of them, anyone who engages in critical analysis of issues where the outcome doesn’t support their view of the world, is unpatriotic. And a common characteristic that those in our community, like that ‘AIMN Reader’, share is in an incapacity to engage in critical thought: reality must be wrong if it doesn’t conform to my ingrained prejudices. Such people are the natural prey of Bolt, Jones, the LNP and all who would seek to exploit them for personal gain. But there is a cure: education, a la Gonski. It is unsurprising that the LNP numbers the implementation of Gonski among its broken promises and the limiting of access to education among its priorities.

flohri1754January 16, 2015 at 11:56 am

Agree with Sue Ellen as regards the Rum Rebellion … Bligh was attempting to be egalitarian with the distribution of the colonies basic goods and the Rum Corps/MacArthur group hated that as he was working against their plans to appropriate the “common wealth” for their own enrichment. In fact, it could be considered the really early, early beginnings of the great divide between the Coalition way of viewing Australian society and the traditional Labor (pre-neo-liberal domination of the debate) stance as regards just what kind of society Australia should aim to be.

And, barely scratch any right-wing diatribe in Australia and you see the undercoating of IPA, Tea-Party, Ayn Rand concepts pushing through.

stephentardrewJanuary 16, 2015 at 12:07 pm

Rossleigh:

This thing about sausages and their brethren is getting a little disturbing.

Do you have a fixation.

lawrencewinderJanuary 16, 2015 at 12:18 pm

‘S funny you know, I can’t find anyone who thinks the country’s going in the correct direction….. except for the lard brains….

Graham HoughtonJanuary 16, 2015 at 1:39 pm

When I was at school many many years ago, if I behaved in as antisocial manner as this government and its supporters, or performed as badly at my work, I got an automatic detention. So can’t we just swap all these immature, right-wing nut jobs for those already in detention?

lizzieconnorJanuary 16, 2015 at 2:56 pm

Short answer? No. A shame isn’t it?

Brad KJanuary 16, 2015 at 3:55 pm

The Abbott govt really has emboldened the loons of the country. Perhaps your piqued correspondent should try meditation or a little bit of yoga to help with the anger management. Failing that a bit of work on the prefrontal cortex should do the trick.

DavidJanuary 16, 2015 at 4:56 pm

Even with the satirical intent, none of the data indicates anything competes with Halal regarding global impact, which makes your article a bit pointless really.

eli nesJanuary 16, 2015 at 5:11 pm

love it, ross! I think the 2013 fits the rum rebellion to a T.
As for vegans, a quiet word that the Japanese eat whalemeat but it is an acquired taste, is a conversation killer.

rossleighbrisbaneJanuary 16, 2015 at 5:18 pm

Given your lack of a point, David, it sort of makes your comment a bit pointless!

DavidJanuary 16, 2015 at 5:43 pm

I suspect the point was a little over your head in that case then rossleighbrisbane.
Thanks for the reply though.

Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 6:12 pm

Over mine too. What exactly IS the global impact of halal?

Annie BJanuary 16, 2015 at 7:20 pm

Would there be such a thing as a ‘global’ impact of halal ? Would be an almost impossible project to pursue – figuring it all out. …. ( my imagination is in overdrive at the thought ).

It’s interesting that halal certificates are issued ” for a fee ” by a certifying body. ….. so e.g. vegemite – do we all pay a tiny bit toward the halal, which means ‘ permitted ‘ ( for Muslims ) certification ?

I have a tiny suspicion, that it might be a sneaky way to get Muslims to buy and eat vegemite – in the first place !! 🙂

Maybe it isn’t ‘kosher’ to label foods with halal certificates ? — .

To BUY kosher, one has to go to a Jewish deli … and find it there. There is no ‘kosher’ label on vegemite !! …. Hey – maybe there should be !…… LOL

…..

btw …….. Tomato (scientifically) IS indeed a fruit – but I suspect you knew that !! 😉 …. Beans are also classified as fruit ! Got something to do with where the seeds are …… !!

I hope I haven’t upset your culinary beliefs too much !!

Good article too, Rossleigh.

revolutionarycitizenJanuary 16, 2015 at 7:27 pm

Hitler was a vegetation, and look what he did!

In all serious though, the issue with Halal Certification is that it is by and large entirely unnecessary, for the most part a Muslim only has to say a short prayer over his/her foot to make it Halal. And just about everything that a Muslim (Or Jew for that matter) needs to know about what he/she can’t eat is in-fact listed for their own convenience in their holy book of choice. The same list also appears in the holy book of Christians but they’ve chosen to largely ignore that part.

As for the fee, Halal Certification world wide is big business, very big business, and even in Australia it is run largely as a business. Do some Halal certifying bodies fund terrorism? No more than the Government’s of the Middle East do and there is no evidence to suggest that Australian bodies have been.

Again, the main point being, it is almost completely unnecessary to have such schemes in place among populations of literate Muslims, in essence, they’re being ripped off and treated as much a fool as the rest of us.

Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 8:31 pm

The fee was $1000. If a miniscule expense like that is going to make you have to put up the price of your product then I would suggest your business is already not viable.

I fail to see how anyone is being ripped off. I fail to see what the fuss is. But I think Australian businesses would be very silly to ignore this market.

John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 8:47 pm

Absolutely right Kaye Lee.

The coward as usual posts from a position of complete ignorance.

Economic credentials …. I’m surprised he can find the money to pay his phone bill.

Möbius EckoJanuary 16, 2015 at 9:02 pm

Watch the Checkout on the ABC and you will see that there’s a massive range of things sold that are not necessary and are a huge racket worldwide, dwarfing Halal certification.

Yet there are hundreds of millions of literate people, despite all the information and science at their fingertips who still spend billions on unnecessary products and services in being ripped off.

Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 9:31 pm

I sometimes wonder what people think being in business is like. I moved my business into premises across the road. Not only did I have to submit a development application for the actual business, I had to submit a separate DA to move the signs from my old business across the road onto the new premises. Those two DAs, even though I was doing NO new building, cost me over $1000 to submit. Bemoaning the cost of halal certification is laughable. It opens up new markets to millions of people. Why on earth wouldn’t you do it? Lots of non-Muslims are enjoying halal food because they have a perception it is less processed.

idontcarewhatyousayorthinkJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:19 pm

Maybe we should get all food in Australia certified Halal. That would then solve the problem of right wing bigots in a few of weeks. If we could get all the water certified Halal as well that should sole the problem in a week or so. Worth the cost at twice the price in my book

John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:25 pm

Kaye Lee

You wouldn't want to know the hoops I had to jump through to get my last development approved here in Brisbane.

Sitting in on the second “no prejudice” meeting with the Brisbane City Council reps and me with my $360 an hour lawyer and a $900 traffic report and the idiots say the development (duplex) wasn’t suitable for the area.

The idiots had an aerial photo and I pointed out how my development had duplexes and triplexes on 2 sides ….. duh !

$100,000 and 8 months later the earthworks started.

Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:34 pm

John, I DO understand. I wasn’t even DOING any works, just moving across the road into existing premises. As part of the DA for the signs I had to do a “waste management plan” and an “environmental impact statement” for the signs. I had already done those things for the business DA. I wrote “The signs will not create any waste” and “The environmental impact will be the same as it was when you approved them to be on the premises across the road when you made me get them to fit in with your heritage theme”. I ran off 5 copies of each to include and they were happy because they could tick the box, although they did make me cut 6 inches off one of the signs to comply with their “percentage wall covering” rule. The $1000 was just to submit the original applications. Complying with all their ridiculous conditions I don’t even want to add up.

As an interesting aside….

“THE property industry has vowed to establish a political party in NSW and could soon run candidates in elections.

MALCOLM Gunning, from the Real Estate Institute of NSW (REINSW), says work is already underway to form a new party to represent real estate agents and developers.

He said the focus will be on electing a member into the upper house of parliament.

Mr Gunning insists the new political party will not push to overturn the ban on property developers donating to election campaigns.”

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/real-estate-agents-to-form-nsw-party/story-e6frfku9-1227141595611

mark delmegeJanuary 16, 2015 at 11:39 pm

can we get back to vegan virgins please – and lets not be sexist about this.

revolutionarycitizenJanuary 17, 2015 at 2:23 am

Kaye, I never mentioned a fee, only that the certification was in large part irrelevant, which it is, and Muslims did quite fine for more than 1,000 years without such a system.

Because a simple prayer before eating the food makes it Halal, and everything that is Haram is explained in the Qur’an.

Which makes it a complete rip off.

By the way, some of the peak international Halal Certification boards can charge a lot more than $1,000, it depends on where you want your food sold and what it is. Abattoirs can pay $25,000 a month for certification, which again is a $25,000 fee for something that is completely unnecessary, and something Muslims lived without for over a millennium. Simply stating that the meat in the package wasn’t stunned before slaughter is all that is required, and even then not absolutely required either.

Rosemary JonesJanuary 17, 2015 at 1:36 pm

I have been getting posts on face book about how to avoid buying halal products and how bad halal animal,slaughter is and I live in a small country town where there are no Muslims! I don’t get it this hatred for all things Muslim! My father slaughtered all our animals for our meat consumption in the halal/kosher way as far as I can tell and most farmers did and they were not Muslim or Jewish, they didn’t pray over them though that’s the only difference.

RoswellJanuary 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm

Rosemary, Christians pray over their meals instead.

gangey1959January 17, 2015 at 2:48 pm

Thanks for the heads-up Rossleigh.
I knew we had some dumb people here, but jeez. Shame they didn’t have the balls to sign the post.
A few thoughts.
I have always thought that halal just applied to meat, and it meant that the particular beast had to be killed facing Mecca. Ooops
btw. Leave my Vegemite the way it is please. It goes on toast.
“Halal” = “Grace” = “Yiddish whatever its called”…..What a surprise. Same as “Thou should / should not kill” as per ones chosen book.
From what I recall of Australian History 1975-6-7 Bligh was a Mental Case. He got thrown off his ship, having upset his crew, and then got thrown out of office as Governor. Rightly or wrongly, he kept upsetting the wrong people.
In terms of the “War” that the initial poster mentioned, which one was he (I assume its a he) talking about, because as far as I can tell the Crusades haven’t ended yet, and Australian troops, under British flags until WW1, have been going off to fight in useless foreign campaigns since the Crimean war.
December 3 might be a better day to call Australia Day, as it is the date of the Eureka Stockade battle. Not that the battle itself is a particularly high point in our history, but because it was the trigger point for a call for a National Identity separate from Britain’ and does not trample upon the original carers of the land in the same way that the current PM does. (I say again,he is a disgrace, and may he soon be replaced and then forgotten)
The Property Industry as a political party in its own right is a less scary thought than the back-door insidious machine that it is currently,
Just the same as the Mining Industry would be. PUP is just so positive for the country don’t you think ? but at least we can see the bastard coming.
Finally. re mark delmege. Do they come with cucumbers ? (pun intended)

PS. TAKE THE SHIT FLAG OFF OUR STARS

gangey1959January 17, 2015 at 3:13 pm

Sorry folks. Rossleigh. Where did the post above come from? I have a couple more thoughts.
Calling me (us?) un-patriotic. F’ing over-moneyed, under brain-celled, snot-nosed, private-school tied red-neck that he is.

Kaye LeeJanuary 17, 2015 at 3:25 pm

“the certification was in large part irrelevant”

Not if it opens up whole new markets to you where the consumer has the CHOICE of buying your product. This is not some sort of conspiracy – if there is a market for halal certified products then why are you against it? No-one will be forced to buy them. It’s a business opportunity to provide for a new market that costs very little to enter.

rc, you expose your opposition to this as ideological rather than sensible. It hurts no-one.

Please explain to me why you think it is a ripoff? I think selling cosmetics and hair dyes and designer clothes and expensive jewellery to people is a ripoff. Why is this deserving of attention in this market-driven world?

diannaartJanuary 17, 2015 at 3:29 pm

Never hear the same fuss about Kosher – why is that?

KyranJanuary 17, 2015 at 4:23 pm

You got’ta love the repartee. I wish I was more savvy with this internetty thing. That way I could do one of those hyperlink thingy’s. I recall hearing a Radio National article when this first hit the fan a few months ago. After interviewing the woman who started the anti-halal site, because it sponsored terrorism, the article went on to interview Muslim’s, who correctly stated it was a production method, not solely relevant to meat. They then went on to interview various primary producers (in Australia), all of whom stated that halal certification was good, because everyone knew what it meant. Apparently, international law has all sorts of definitions regarding GM, organic, natural, modified, etc. Lots of grey areas. The halal certification wasn’t drawn up by lawyers or politicians and had clear and concise definitions. My understanding is that it became commercially viable on an international basis for that exact reason. It was a clearly defined production process. The certification is provided through a careful process and the Muslim leaders being interviewed stated all of the funds received for the certification were audited. Darn, wish I was smarter! Take care

Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:11 am

Good comment and well said Kyran. ….. Covers a great deal, very concisely.

And good luck with the hyperlink thingy ! …… I have yet to get my head around that too.

Kaye LeeJanuary 18, 2015 at 6:42 am

To post a link just right click on the address, then copy it and paste it.

KyranJanuary 18, 2015 at 8:06 am

Thank you Ms Lee. I’ll get the photocopier and paste out today.
Just joshing. Take care

diannaartJanuary 18, 2015 at 12:27 pm

Well said, Kyran. I had listened to same RN report and had forgotten – until now.

Yes, indeedy, this Halal scare is simply that – a load of rubbish dreamt up by the truly bigoted in our world. Certification remains a business opportunity – unless the Halal people are in cahoots with the Kosher people and then where will we be? Religions cooperating with each other???

Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 2:25 pm

Yes – just copying and pasting a link from your browser is enough – that’s mostly what I do.

Hyperlinks show more or less like this ……. click ‘ here ‘ ( and the ‘here’ is in blue ) …. when you click on ‘here’ the site comes up. That’s a hyperlink. I could do it in Outlook Express and on my own website, but not here for some reason.

Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 2:55 pm

diannaart …. ( 3.29 pm – 17th )

…… “Never hear the same fuss about Kosher – why is that?”

In the good old days, when people accepted people as they are – kosher was around for as long as Jews were ( and are ) around and buying in Jewish deli’s, butcheries etc. It was simply …. accepted – – in the days when political correctness was not even known or heard about, and people were not screaming abuse at other religions ……

I am thinking that kosher has been SO long accepted – there’d be no point to going back to lambast ‘kosher’ now …. it’s just like part of the furniture to us ALL. ….

Not much fun taking up the anti-semitic drum beating again, while anti-Muslim is alive and well.

I believe Hindus and Sikhs have specific laws relating to slaughter and cutting of meats as well, and we hear nothing about those either. Same reasons apply.

………

A lot of non-Jewish bods go to kosher deli’s and shops, to get some really fantastic foods as well. I love Jewish food myself. I have many great Jewish recipes too. … It’s yum tucker.

Kosher has similar rules and regulations ( except for pointing to Mecca !! ) …. in the slaughter of meat for consumption, and other food stuffs, that must be separated … e.g. milk cannot be cooked ( or perhaps even eaten ? ) …. with meat. [ and I have read that Muslims can eat kosher food if no halal cert. food is available – because of the similarities in preparation ]

diannaartJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:03 pm

Annie B

I used to live in St Kilda many moons ago and would love to go food shopping in Carlisle Street – miss the great array of food.

My comment re: Kosher and Halal was merely rhetorical – very sad for our Muslim brethren while the extremists continue to peddle evil.

Cheers

Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:37 pm

diannaart ….

I realised your comment was rhetorical, but also figured quite a few people might actually consider that question seriously …… so took the opportunity to run with it.

Besides which, it gave me a chance to have a crack at the anti-Muslim mob. …. There are so many more peaceful, joyful living Muslims in our community – yet all a lot of people can see is the bad apples that come from that community. …. The few that can be persuaded to join a jihad – who follow radical and religious extremism – which can be found in any religion ( if you look for it ).

I wondered what kind of community spawned Jeffrey Dahmer ( U.S. Serial killer and cannibal – now dead at the hands of another prison inmate ) …… and have found he was a member of a devout family who attended a Stone-Campbell denomination of the “Churches of Christ” … …. a bad apple, and perhaps religious fervour, contributed to that. Who would ever know.

,,,,,,

Ah – St. Kilda – what a fantastic area to visit or live.

KyranJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:43 pm

diannaart, you just reminded me of a yarn, a little off topic. Little Johnnie jokes used to be the fashion for miscreant youths and probably best depicted in this modern world as Bart Simpson. One of the stories went along the lines of Little Johnnie biting off more than he could chew and passing away. When he is being showed around heaven by one of the gods, he is told where all the religious “groups” were, but noticed a huge wall, concealing a group behind it. He asks the god “Why is there a wall and who’s behind it?” to which the god replies “They’re the Catholics, they like to think they’re the only ones up here.” Religions cooperating with each other indeed!
And Annie B, thank you. I will get the hang of this. It was Ms Lee’s suggestion that you should “right click” that initially confused me. I thought it might be an idealogical predisposition but I eventually worked it out. Would have looked like a git otherwise! Take care

MikeJanuary 18, 2015 at 11:40 pm

One of the problems I see with halal certification is that imams are now issuing fatwas stating only a muslim can process halal food, this opens a whole new can of exclusive and discriminatory worms. at only 2.2% of our population and a predilection to welfare, who is going to feed us? Must we convert or starve?

Other questions to ask ourselves:
What other country has a domestic halal certification scheme? why not?
If fish, dairy, water, and vegetables are automatically halal, why are certificates issued for them?
Why do plastic bags and transport companies need halal certification?

Annie BJanuary 19, 2015 at 1:04 am

Mike – I have to decide whether to take your questions, seriously or not !! ….. so I will opt for ‘seriously’.

“Halal is an Arabic term which means allowed, lawful, legal, or permissible under the Shariah (Islamic Law). This law is based on the Qur’an, Hadith (tradition of the Prophet Muhammad), Ijma (consensus), and Qiyas (deduction by analogy).”

that is from : http://www.idcphalal.com/halal.html

” Must we convert or starve ?” ……….. of course not. That is ridiculous. There are thousands of food processing plants in Australia and around the world, that do NOT have to submit to fatwas issued by imams. They are just every-day manufacturers of food products. Foods we have been used to using for decades. They are still with us !!

Another link that might assist is : http://www.worldhalalcouncil.com/about-us …. this will answer – for the most part, your comments about plastic bags, containers, fish, water etc. etc. and how many other countries have halal certification. There are many many countries that use Halal certification. To my knowledge, only Denmark has said NO to halal certification.

In a way, the whole Halal thing is a little similar to products ( nothing to do with Sharia law, Muslims or Imams ) …. that are required to label their products that have also had nuts, soy, wheat products etc, having been made on or near machinery / production lines etc….. in order to not have a child / adult with an allergy to such things become desperately ill. ….

These non-Muslim companies put these warnings on labels for two reasons … 1) – to help the purchaser know the dangers in buying say a product made with or on the same machinery where peanuts are used ( e.g. biscuits ) for a peanut allergic child, and 2 ) to cover their own backsides in the case of legal action being taken against the manufacturer.

I believe only Muslim ‘butchers’ ( certified to be such ) .. can slaughter an animal for consumption, using the Halal ( permitted ) method. …. However, if such food is not readily available, Muslims are permitted to eat Jewish ‘kosher’ foods ( which are manufactured under almost the same rules and regs. ) … and at a push ( that is if they are genuinely starving ) ……. they CAN eat non-Halal foods, made by other non-Muslim manufacturers.

I would think that every abbattoir employs at least 2 Muslim butchers … to comply with the Muslim laws, and thus have their meat sold to that specific market – legitimately.

Gluten free bread is made and sold ( very expensive ) for gluten intolerant folk by bread manufacturers who have decided to have the facilities to do so…..

I once asked a smallish bakery why they did not make gluten free bread. The reason ? ……. because they would have to have an entire area – sealed off against contamination, to make specifically gluten free products. If they attempted to make these products without that special area, the whole preparation area for any breads would have to be washed / cleansed 100% thoroughly, EVERY day, to avoid contamination, before gluten free product was being produced. Sounds odd, but makes sense.

Rest easy – there is nothing wrong with halal certification – it is not going to overwhelm us, or cause us starvation. It is a stamp ( as is on vegemite ) that tells Muslims that all is ok. You might be surprised to find how much halal certificed food stuffs you have in your own pantry.

LeaJanuary 19, 2015 at 2:21 am

Here, on this site, I have had the misfortune of reading the islamomarxist idea of Islam and Muslims. All is okay, because not all muslims are going out and beheading people, and they are really nice people. And so it is. However, this does not address the serious issue regarding their membership in the largest terrrorist organisations in the world, that churns out psychopaths daily.

One comment above states that the solution to the hated rightists, which I consider to be the sane and normal people in the world, is education. I would say that it all depends on the kind of education one receives, since currently the educational system will teach about western colonialism but fails to even mention the over one thousand year long colonisation by arab muslims, and how that all came to just happen within 100 years. Islam and muslims, or even arabs or turks, are not even mentioned.

Those of us who are Christians and Jews are told that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and off we go thinking they must be our buddies then. The truth is something strarkly and darkly very different. As we can tell by the fact that muslims who have the right conditions to create their militias with warlords, emulating their prophet, will and do just that and they wreak havoc, shattering millions upon millions of innocent people’s lives, whilst exercising their right to practise their religion freely, on the kaffirs and apostates, since this is an obligation for them. And this is where the terrorist potential lies for every muslim. And there are also many different levels to wage jihad against the kaffirs too.

The muslim living in the west are living according to our kaffir laws which criminalises the practise of jihad, whether violent or subversive. But because this huge terrorist organisation claims to be a religion only, it therefore has a privileged status which allows it to practise its political aims with absolute freedom. Muslims in islamic countries are living the sharia life, and it is one atrocity after the next. Devout muslims like those who belong to Hamas and Isis, would murder these kaffir muslims, and they are doing exactly that.

Anyone who educates themselves about Islam, the koran, hadiths and sira, the life of mahomet, will understand why it is that Islam is something to be rejected and ejected. Thank God, the uninformed and misled, form a minority in Australia, there is hope that the islamisation will be restricted from hereon, despite their pretense at self-righteousness, and realise that muslims are the greatest victims of islam, and that is why Islam remains a crime against humanity. Not that the islamomarxists on this thread really gives a damn, as long as they can pretend they are somehow superior to those who have a very different slant to the view of islam and muslims, and not without reason. In fact there is an abundance of evidence, which is growing daily, rather rapidly.

mark delmegeJanuary 19, 2015 at 2:41 am

I’m a little surprised that so much time is spent discussing food standards and you Lea seem to have less idea than most here. Most religions for most people are peaceful but in the hands of some they are used to divide and conquer. The most radical groups today have been promoted for the same reasons and its the foolish and gullible that get sucked in – but that’s the whole idea. I’ve linked a primer here for you to help bring you up to date in what is happening today in the world. As you finish reading this as dismiss me as a crank remember what they did in Vietnam or in Central America with the Contras or any other conflict in the last 50 odd years. Nothing much has changed.

http://journal-neo.org/2014/10/28/isis-america-s-terrorist-mercenaries/

of course you won’t read about it in your local paper or the national The Australia or on the ABC/SBS – but when did they tell the truth anyway?

I tried some bad jokes for levity in my attempt to match RossLeighs absurdism but I failed so I will go back to being serious.

Annie BJanuary 19, 2015 at 3:18 am

Lea …

You have mentioned the word ‘kaffir’ four times in your … er … um … post ?

I would suggest you find out what that word actually means – before using it in any forms of writing, or in any public forum. It comes from several sources.

” Our kaffir laws ” ? (4th paragraph) ………. What ARE you on about ? Are you using the word as a derogatory adjective there ???

You seem bent on contradicting yourself too …… ah well.

Beyond the points I have made, I say no more.

Wouldn’t touch the main of it with a 40 foot barge pole. !!

Annie BJanuary 19, 2015 at 4:10 am

Very interesting reading on that link Mark.

Didn’t surprise me though. …. Have long distrusted the war machine that is the U.S. – especially the right wing mob of losers, Bush, McCain and co. ….

McCain advocated ‘arming the rebels’ ( against Bashar al-Assad who is vile ) – and they ( the radical extremist Islamic rebels ) are now killing any time, anywhere. There’s a lot more about McCain to be found, too.

I agree with your comments in that post, as well. …..

Kaye LeeJanuary 19, 2015 at 7:05 am

Islamomarxist? kaffir? You obviously don’t live in Australia Lea….or if you do you have become victim to the rubbish that Pickering espouses. Can you tell me specifically how Australian Muslims have impacted on your life negatively?

diannaartJanuary 19, 2015 at 8:43 am

I realised your comment was rhetorical, but also figured quite a few people might actually consider that question seriously …… so took the opportunity to run with it.

Quite right too, Annie B. I guess such people fear that Islam will achieve the same reach into politics as have Christianity – although at barely 2% of the population compared to Christianity’s 61% they have a bit of catching up to do. My bet is that climate change will have well and truly kicked in by then and we will face severe problems (hoping the denialists are right, bwhaaahaaahhaaahaaaa).

As for St Kilda – twas an extraordinary time of my life – wonderful to have been a part of it before it was gentrified – couldn’t afford to live there now. 😀

AndrewJanuary 19, 2015 at 9:10 am

I liked your comment Lea, it gave a different view than the usual comments I have been reading here. I also believe that education is the key, but that is for people from all viewpoints. All the pro-Islam supporters saying Islam and Halal are good and anti-Islam supporters saying the opposite. I have no problem for Muslims to eat Halal food but why should I have to pay for it Kaye Lee? Halal certification costs would be added into the cost of a product which I shouldn’t have to pay for if I don’t need it. If Jews are going to their Kosher store to get their Kosher food, why can’t Muslims go to a Halal store to get their Halal food (and pay that little extra for Halal certification)? Then the other 97 or so % of Australia can make their choice from where to buy their food.

RossleighJanuary 19, 2015 at 9:12 am

Yes, and why can’t those people wanting “Heart Smart” food go to the Heart Smart Shop?

diannaartJanuary 19, 2015 at 10:50 am

@Rossleigh

Yes, indeedy… and vegetarians go to their vegan shops, glucose intolerant to GI shops, Catholics to their fish shops…

gangey1959January 19, 2015 at 6:47 pm

@Kyran. Hang in there kid. It will happen. I just wish I could type. Thank you miss Bedford for teaching me to spell, read, write, count, times tables, respect, etc etc. and that was all in term 1, grade Prep.
@Lea. What the ? Islamomarxist ? Australian INDEPENDENT Media Network. Free speech, Freedom of expression et al. Enough said. OK. I still didn’t understand a word of what you said, but you keep on trying anyway.

As long as Vegemite is safe I’m good. At the Knox Club sports bar I can get a porterhouse with mushroom and pepper sauce and chips and salad for $12, 7 days a week, lunch or dinner. Its the best steak dinner in Melbourne, and I don’t care how it’s been killed.
Tonight I’m playing Trivia in Ringwood. So there

revolutionarycitizenJanuary 19, 2015 at 7:27 pm

“Please explain to me why you think it is a ripoff?”

Because for one obvious reason, for the most part it is not a requirement of Islam to have food certified, as stated twice, a simple prayer before consumption of food makes it Halal, and everything that is Haram is explained explicitly in the Qur’an. Halal Certification never existed until recently, meaning Muslims managed for over 10 centuries without it. It also re-enforces a stereotype that most Muslims are poorly educated and have no concept of their faith, and judging by the growth in the Halal Certification industry this is either true, or it just another means for Muslims to pay more for products than they would other-wise have to.

Also, from an Australian trade point of view, our second largest export is Education, the total value of our exports to anywhere that needs Halal Certification is in the greater scheme of things minute. And is now being used as distraction for producers and consumers alike.

Australia should be focusing on breaking into the Europe, North America and North Asian agricultural markets on a much larger scale, but as long as people think there is more money than there really is to be made from trading with the largely impoverished Middle East and North Africa people will stop asking why we’ve been largely frozen out of the 3 largest food markets in the world.

Halal Certification is just another way that rich albeit Muslim industrialists get to treat the poor Muslim poorly.

corvus boreusJanuary 20, 2015 at 8:12 am

It seems some forms of dogmatic devotion to the dick-deity cause pork paranoia, and other food fetishes that need assuaging via the placebo of a labeling system. I do not need such optional assurances, and if displaying such a label makes a product dearer, I might choose not to buy it. I do, however, need to know if a product contains condensed milk as that causes me to erupt with hives for reasons unknown.

Kaye LeeJanuary 20, 2015 at 9:18 am

“I have no problem for Muslims to eat Halal food but why should I have to pay for it Kaye Lee?”

As with any other product, you have the choice of whether to buy it or not. If you feel it is too expensive then don’t buy it. Simple as that. Do you have any proof of products you buy being more expensive because of halal certification? Fleurieu Milk & Yoghurt Company paid $1000 for halal certification to supply a $50,000 yoghurt contract with Emirates Airlines. It was a very sensible business decision.

What is the difference with certification for grain-fed and grass-fed cattle? These cost more as do free range eggs. We have the choice.
Increased trade with the Middle East and South East Asia means Halal certification is a booming business in Australia.

The sector is projected to be worth $1.6 trillion worldwide by 2050, and Australian food exporters are racing to get into the market so it is actually MAKING money for this country.

Kaye LeeJanuary 20, 2015 at 9:35 am

A Cadbury spokesman said the “small fees” paid to certification bodies didn’t affect pricing and were more than offset by access to broader markets, which created more local jobs.

“It’s consumer information, similar to gluten-free or kosher labels … nothing in our products or the way we manufacture our products has been changed to attain halal certification,” he said.

A Nestle spokeswoman also said costs were not passed on to consumers, and she insisted halal certification was not used as a marketing tool.

“We will continue to have products in our range that are suitable for people with special dietary requirements,” she said.

AFIC spokesman Keysar Trad said that “hate groups” were trying to exploit fear against Muslims for their own political gain.

“They are withholding the fact that this certification is bringing to Australia billions of dollars in export revenue by bringing these products to Muslim consumers,” Mr Trad said.

Mr Trad said that Muslims just wanted certainty about what they were eating, and products such as chocolate bars often contained meat derivatives.

Annie BJanuary 20, 2015 at 9:08 pm

The title of this post “Forget Halal – I’ve discovered … etc ” ……. can be taken in a different way now. i.e.

( just ) ” Forget Halal “. …

Halal is not something that is going to damage us, cost us more, cause any anguish … so what more can be said.

It is similar to the information put on products that contain wheat / peanuts / dairy etc. for humans who have allergies to these products, except in this case it is specifically for a religious group – – – so what ! …

If we want to closely inspect all goods ( with a magnifitying glass and that’s often what it would take ) to find a halal certification on food – FINE ….. if we don’t —- FINE also.

And indeed, if we can bring more money into our manufacturing coffers, by allowing a little stamp that assures a very small % of the population that the food is good and genuine for them – I see nothing wrong with that.

CathyJanuary 21, 2015 at 1:30 am

If you think vegans are more dangerous than Islamic extremist, sharia law and the Halal movement in the world then your F**k*n Idiot who will regret your stupidity in the next 10 years when we are prisoners in our own country, or beheaded because we won’t convert….good luck I actually feel sorry for you.

corvus boreusJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:11 am

Cathy,
As those halal extremists pry the pickled pork from my cold, dead hands, I shall go to my matyrs’ slumber greatly comforted by your sympathies. You will, I take it, be choosing conversion over decapitation?

RoswellJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:19 am

Cathy doesn’t know satire when she sees it. So her response is extreme to say the least.

stephentardrewJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:22 am

Time to stop chasing the wind.

CathyJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:34 am

I would never convert, and to all who think I’m the idiot….well time will tell, you’ve only got to the research yourself, but each to their own..

corvus boreusJanuary 23, 2015 at 6:36 am

According to the wisdom of wiki, ‘Vegetarian bacon, also referred to as fakon, veggie bacon, or vacon, is a product marketed as a bacon alternative that is available in supermarkets.
Vegetarian bacon is also easy to make at home by marinating strips of tempeh or tofu in various spices and then deep frying. Aficionados of raw food also use coconut meat as a bacon substitute.Seitan can also be formed into bacon as well’.

I think it would be amusing to see “I can’t believe it’s not bacon” stamped both halal and kosher.
Could an imitation pig products made from imitation milksbe halal or kosher?
Probably not. According to wiki, ‘the makin of fake bacon can be a manifestation of seitan’.

JohnJanuary 26, 2015 at 12:56 am

Wont be to long and there will be a debate and movement on how to wipe ones arse .

Annie BJanuary 26, 2015 at 1:19 am

Horridly, I came across an article on the Internet, that underscores what Cathy was saying. …. That Sharia law will ‘ allegedly ‘ overcome us. Damned if I know where to find it now – somewhere in my cache history, but it eludes me. It is a terrifying prospect, however, the original most likely was written with a huge amount of bias.

Besides which, Aussies would never allow that to happen – no matter what.

@ John. I dare not reply to that comment – it would be viewed and discarded by Michael as ‘inappropriate’ – which it would and should be. 😉

Suffice to say it wouldn’t be too salubrious. !!! ??

MarkSeptember 7, 2015 at 9:18 am

Am atheist trying to work out which religion to join ….
Not sure what I prefer …
Beheading people or f$&@ing little boys up da ass
Either way I look forward to and appreciate all your support at this left wing wank off

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babyjewels10January 16, 2015 at 10:12 am

Lately, there’s something that scares me far more than terrorism. A certain breed of Australians. I’ll say no more.
mark delmegeJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:17 am

I’m looking for a joke about vegan virgins and how many can you get around a table for eight but i kept getting distracted on porn sites. Its amazing how much stuff you get for free these days.
nickthiwerspoonJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:18 am

Cretinism is everywhere. But you know the AIMN is becoming important when you start to get comments like that. It’s a badge of honour when brain-dead nongs, who’ve drunk the Kool-Aid to the lees, attack you. Congratulations.
Sue-EllenJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:23 am

Love your work. However, I will point out that it is my understanding, Bligh was overthrown by powerful rich colonials such as Macarthur because he was trying to challenge their strangle hold on the colony. He supported the poor farmers many of them ex convicts and many of whom signed a letter in his support. The Eureka Stockade was probably a better example for your lefty point.
selwyn smithJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:34 am

Eureka was the start of the trouble. Business people who believed they did have to contribute towards society as a whole
John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:37 am

<

Thank dog you remembered halal !

Every day I get beaten with a lump of halal tofu by the (they don't know it) extreme right wing fanatics.

The sooner Abbott does a backflip and declares halal to be "Team Australia" the sooner he will be canonised by Frank.

Hope that doesn't sound Charlie Hebdo like.
John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:41 am

<

The Rum Rebellion ?

More like "The Rum Diary" by Hunter S. Thompson.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0376136/

Which coincidentally was on tv here in Brisbane last night.
Florence nee FedupJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:42 am

What was the aim of the tax, that got up the miners nose. Was it to ensure only the rich had the right to dig? Was it to raise revenue for the good of all?
unsimplelifeJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:51 am

hahaha, this is great. Happy Straya Day.
Paul G. DellitJanuary 16, 2015 at 11:12 am

A thread that runs through all such right wing diatribes is that anyone to the left of them, anyone who engages in critical analysis of issues where the outcome doesn’t support their view of the world, is unpatriotic. And a common characteristic that those in our community, like that ‘AIMN Reader’, share is in an incapacity to engage in critical thought: reality must be wrong if it doesn’t conform to my ingrained prejudices. Such people are the natural prey of Bolt, Jones, the LNP and all who would seek to exploit them for personal gain. But there is a cure: education, a la Gonski. It is unsurprising that the LNP numbers the implementation of Gonski among its broken promises and the limiting of access to education among its priorities.
flohri1754January 16, 2015 at 11:56 am

Agree with Sue Ellen as regards the Rum Rebellion … Bligh was attempting to be egalitarian with the distribution of the colonies basic goods and the Rum Corps/MacArthur group hated that as he was working against their plans to appropriate the “common wealth” for their own enrichment. In fact, it could be considered the really early, early beginnings of the great divide between the Coalition way of viewing Australian society and the traditional Labor (pre-neo-liberal domination of the debate) stance as regards just what kind of society Australia should aim to be.

And, barely scratch any right-wing diatribe in Australia and you see the undercoating of IPA, Tea-Party, Ayn Rand concepts pushing through.
stephentardrewJanuary 16, 2015 at 12:07 pm

Rossleigh:

This thing about sausages and their brethren is getting a little disturbing.

Do you have a fixation.
lawrencewinderJanuary 16, 2015 at 12:18 pm

‘S funny you know, I can’t find anyone who thinks the country’s going in the correct direction….. except for the lard brains….
Graham HoughtonJanuary 16, 2015 at 1:39 pm

When I was at school many many years ago, if I behaved in as antisocial manner as this government and its supporters, or performed as badly at my work, I got an automatic detention. So can’t we just swap all these immature, right-wing nut jobs for those already in detention?
lizzieconnorJanuary 16, 2015 at 2:56 pm

Short answer? No. A shame isn’t it?
Brad KJanuary 16, 2015 at 3:55 pm

The Abbott govt really has emboldened the loons of the country. Perhaps your piqued correspondent should try meditation or a little bit of yoga to help with the anger management. Failing that a bit of work on the prefrontal cortex should do the trick.
DavidJanuary 16, 2015 at 4:56 pm

Even with the satirical intent, none of the data indicates anything competes with Halal regarding global impact, which makes your article a bit pointless really.
eli nesJanuary 16, 2015 at 5:11 pm

love it, ross! I think the 2013 fits the rum rebellion to a T.
As for vegans, a quiet word that the Japanese eat whalemeat but it is an acquired taste, is a conversation killer.
rossleighbrisbaneJanuary 16, 2015 at 5:18 pm

Given your lack of a point, David, it sort of makes your comment a bit pointless!
DavidJanuary 16, 2015 at 5:43 pm

I suspect the point was a little over your head in that case then rossleighbrisbane.
Thanks for the reply though.
Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 6:12 pm

Over mine too. What exactly IS the global impact of halal?
Annie BJanuary 16, 2015 at 7:20 pm

Would there be such a thing as a ‘global’ impact of halal ? Would be an almost impossible project to pursue – figuring it all out. …. ( my imagination is in overdrive at the thought ).

It’s interesting that halal certificates are issued ” for a fee ” by a certifying body. ….. so e.g. vegemite – do we all pay a tiny bit toward the halal, which means ‘ permitted ‘ ( for Muslims ) certification ?

I have a tiny suspicion, that it might be a sneaky way to get Muslims to buy and eat vegemite – in the first place !! 🙂

Maybe it isn’t ‘kosher’ to label foods with halal certificates ? — .

To BUY kosher, one has to go to a Jewish deli … and find it there. There is no ‘kosher’ label on vegemite !! …. Hey – maybe there should be !…… LOL

…..

btw …….. Tomato (scientifically) IS indeed a fruit – but I suspect you knew that !! 😉 …. Beans are also classified as fruit ! Got something to do with where the seeds are …… !!

I hope I haven’t upset your culinary beliefs too much !!

Good article too, Rossleigh.
revolutionarycitizenJanuary 16, 2015 at 7:27 pm

Hitler was a vegetation, and look what he did!

In all serious though, the issue with Halal Certification is that it is by and large entirely unnecessary, for the most part a Muslim only has to say a short prayer over his/her foot to make it Halal. And just about everything that a Muslim (Or Jew for that matter) needs to know about what he/she can’t eat is in-fact listed for their own convenience in their holy book of choice. The same list also appears in the holy book of Christians but they’ve chosen to largely ignore that part.

As for the fee, Halal Certification world wide is big business, very big business, and even in Australia it is run largely as a business. Do some Halal certifying bodies fund terrorism? No more than the Government’s of the Middle East do and there is no evidence to suggest that Australian bodies have been.

Again, the main point being, it is almost completely unnecessary to have such schemes in place among populations of literate Muslims, in essence, they’re being ripped off and treated as much a fool as the rest of us.
Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 8:31 pm

The fee was $1000. If a miniscule expense like that is going to make you have to put up the price of your product then I would suggest your business is already not viable.

I fail to see how anyone is being ripped off. I fail to see what the fuss is. But I think Australian businesses would be very silly to ignore this market.
John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 8:47 pm

<

Absolutely right Kaye Lee.

The coward as usual posts from a position of complete ignorance.

Economic credentials …. I’m surprised he can find the money to pay his phone bill.
Möbius EckoJanuary 16, 2015 at 9:02 pm

Watch the Checkout on the ABC and you will see that there’s a massive range of things sold that are not necessary and are a huge racket worldwide, dwarfing Halal certification.

Yet there are hundreds of millions of literate people, despite all the information and science at their fingertips who still spend billions on unnecessary products and services in being ripped off.
Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 9:31 pm

I sometimes wonder what people think being in business is like. I moved my business into premises across the road. Not only did I have to submit a development application for the actual business, I had to submit a separate DA to move the signs from my old business across the road onto the new premises. Those two DAs, even though I was doing NO new building, cost me over $1000 to submit. Bemoaning the cost of halal certification is laughable. It opens up new markets to millions of people. Why on earth wouldn’t you do it? Lots of non-Muslims are enjoying halal food because they have a perception it is less processed.
idontcarewhatyousayorthinkJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:19 pm

Maybe we should get all food in Australia certified Halal. That would then solve the problem of right wing bigots in a few of weeks. If we could get all the water certified Halal as well that should sole the problem in a week or so. Worth the cost at twice the price in my book
John FraserJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:25 pm

<

Kaye Lee

You wouldn't want to know the hoops I had to jump through to get my last development approved here in Brisbane.

Sitting in on the second “no prejudice” meeting with the Brisbane City Council reps and me with my $360 an hour lawyer and a $900 traffic report and the idiots say the development (duplex) wasn’t suitable for the area.

The idiots had an aerial photo and I pointed out how my development had duplexes and triplexes on 2 sides ….. duh !

$100,000 and 8 months later the earthworks started.
Kaye LeeJanuary 16, 2015 at 10:34 pm

John, I DO understand. I wasn’t even DOING any works, just moving across the road into existing premises. As part of the DA for the signs I had to do a “waste management plan” and an “environmental impact statement” for the signs. I had already done those things for the business DA. I wrote “The signs will not create any waste” and “The environmental impact will be the same as it was when you approved them to be on the premises across the road when you made me get them to fit in with your heritage theme”. I ran off 5 copies of each to include and they were happy because they could tick the box, although they did make me cut 6 inches off one of the signs to comply with their “percentage wall covering” rule. The $1000 was just to submit the original applications. Complying with all their ridiculous conditions I don’t even want to add up.

As an interesting aside….

“THE property industry has vowed to establish a political party in NSW and could soon run candidates in elections.

MALCOLM Gunning, from the Real Estate Institute of NSW (REINSW), says work is already underway to form a new party to represent real estate agents and developers.

He said the focus will be on electing a member into the upper house of parliament.

Mr Gunning insists the new political party will not push to overturn the ban on property developers donating to election campaigns.”

http://www.news.com.au/national/breaking-news/real-estate-agents-to-form-nsw-party/story-e6frfku9-1227141595611
mark delmegeJanuary 16, 2015 at 11:39 pm

can we get back to vegan virgins please – and lets not be sexist about this.
revolutionarycitizenJanuary 17, 2015 at 2:23 am

Kaye, I never mentioned a fee, only that the certification was in large part irrelevant, which it is, and Muslims did quite fine for more than 1,000 years without such a system.

Because a simple prayer before eating the food makes it Halal, and everything that is Haram is explained in the Qur’an.

Which makes it a complete rip off.

By the way, some of the peak international Halal Certification boards can charge a lot more than $1,000, it depends on where you want your food sold and what it is. Abattoirs can pay $25,000 a month for certification, which again is a $25,000 fee for something that is completely unnecessary, and something Muslims lived without for over a millennium. Simply stating that the meat in the package wasn’t stunned before slaughter is all that is required, and even then not absolutely required either.
Rosemary JonesJanuary 17, 2015 at 1:36 pm

I have been getting posts on face book about how to avoid buying halal products and how bad halal animal,slaughter is and I live in a small country town where there are no Muslims! I don’t get it this hatred for all things Muslim! My father slaughtered all our animals for our meat consumption in the halal/kosher way as far as I can tell and most farmers did and they were not Muslim or Jewish, they didn’t pray over them though that’s the only difference.
RoswellJanuary 17, 2015 at 1:39 pm

Rosemary, Christians pray over their meals instead.
gangey1959January 17, 2015 at 2:48 pm

Thanks for the heads-up Rossleigh.
I knew we had some dumb people here, but jeez. Shame they didn’t have the balls to sign the post.
A few thoughts.
I have always thought that halal just applied to meat, and it meant that the particular beast had to be killed facing Mecca. Ooops
btw. Leave my Vegemite the way it is please. It goes on toast.
“Halal” = “Grace” = “Yiddish whatever its called”…..What a surprise. Same as “Thou should / should not kill” as per ones chosen book.
From what I recall of Australian History 1975-6-7 Bligh was a Mental Case. He got thrown off his ship, having upset his crew, and then got thrown out of office as Governor. Rightly or wrongly, he kept upsetting the wrong people.
In terms of the “War” that the initial poster mentioned, which one was he (I assume its a he) talking about, because as far as I can tell the Crusades haven’t ended yet, and Australian troops, under British flags until WW1, have been going off to fight in useless foreign campaigns since the Crimean war.
December 3 might be a better day to call Australia Day, as it is the date of the Eureka Stockade battle. Not that the battle itself is a particularly high point in our history, but because it was the trigger point for a call for a National Identity separate from Britain’ and does not trample upon the original carers of the land in the same way that the current PM does. (I say again,he is a disgrace, and may he soon be replaced and then forgotten)
The Property Industry as a political party in its own right is a less scary thought than the back-door insidious machine that it is currently,
Just the same as the Mining Industry would be. PUP is just so positive for the country don’t you think ? but at least we can see the bastard coming.
Finally. re mark delmege. Do they come with cucumbers ? (pun intended)

PS. TAKE THE SHIT FLAG OFF OUR STARS
gangey1959January 17, 2015 at 3:13 pm

Sorry folks. Rossleigh. Where did the post above come from? I have a couple more thoughts.
Calling me (us?) un-patriotic. F’ing over-moneyed, under brain-celled, snot-nosed, private-school tied red-neck that he is.
Kaye LeeJanuary 17, 2015 at 3:25 pm

“the certification was in large part irrelevant”

Not if it opens up whole new markets to you where the consumer has the CHOICE of buying your product. This is not some sort of conspiracy – if there is a market for halal certified products then why are you against it? No-one will be forced to buy them. It’s a business opportunity to provide for a new market that costs very little to enter.

rc, you expose your opposition to this as ideological rather than sensible. It hurts no-one.

Please explain to me why you think it is a ripoff? I think selling cosmetics and hair dyes and designer clothes and expensive jewellery to people is a ripoff. Why is this deserving of attention in this market-driven world?
diannaartJanuary 17, 2015 at 3:29 pm

Never hear the same fuss about Kosher – why is that?
KyranJanuary 17, 2015 at 4:23 pm

You got’ta love the repartee. I wish I was more savvy with this internetty thing. That way I could do one of those hyperlink thingy’s. I recall hearing a Radio National article when this first hit the fan a few months ago. After interviewing the woman who started the anti-halal site, because it sponsored terrorism, the article went on to interview Muslim’s, who correctly stated it was a production method, not solely relevant to meat. They then went on to interview various primary producers (in Australia), all of whom stated that halal certification was good, because everyone knew what it meant. Apparently, international law has all sorts of definitions regarding GM, organic, natural, modified, etc. Lots of grey areas. The halal certification wasn’t drawn up by lawyers or politicians and had clear and concise definitions. My understanding is that it became commercially viable on an international basis for that exact reason. It was a clearly defined production process. The certification is provided through a careful process and the Muslim leaders being interviewed stated all of the funds received for the certification were audited. Darn, wish I was smarter! Take care
Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:11 am

Good comment and well said Kyran. ….. Covers a great deal, very concisely.

And good luck with the hyperlink thingy ! …… I have yet to get my head around that too.
Kaye LeeJanuary 18, 2015 at 6:42 am

To post a link just right click on the address, then copy it and paste it.
KyranJanuary 18, 2015 at 8:06 am

Thank you Ms Lee. I’ll get the photocopier and paste out today.
Just joshing. Take care
diannaartJanuary 18, 2015 at 12:27 pm

Well said, Kyran. I had listened to same RN report and had forgotten – until now.

Yes, indeedy, this Halal scare is simply that – a load of rubbish dreamt up by the truly bigoted in our world. Certification remains a business opportunity – unless the Halal people are in cahoots with the Kosher people and then where will we be? Religions cooperating with each other???
Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 2:25 pm

Yes – just copying and pasting a link from your browser is enough – that’s mostly what I do.

Hyperlinks show more or less like this ……. click ‘ here ‘ ( and the ‘here’ is in blue ) …. when you click on ‘here’ the site comes up. That’s a hyperlink. I could do it in Outlook Express and on my own website, but not here for some reason.
Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 2:55 pm

diannaart …. ( 3.29 pm – 17th )

…… “Never hear the same fuss about Kosher – why is that?”

In the good old days, when people accepted people as they are – kosher was around for as long as Jews were ( and are ) around and buying in Jewish deli’s, butcheries etc. It was simply …. accepted – – in the days when political correctness was not even known or heard about, and people were not screaming abuse at other religions ……

I am thinking that kosher has been SO long accepted – there’d be no point to going back to lambast ‘kosher’ now …. it’s just like part of the furniture to us ALL. ….

Not much fun taking up the anti-semitic drum beating again, while anti-Muslim is alive and well.

I believe Hindus and Sikhs have specific laws relating to slaughter and cutting of meats as well, and we hear nothing about those either. Same reasons apply.

………

A lot of non-Jewish bods go to kosher deli’s and shops, to get some really fantastic foods as well. I love Jewish food myself. I have many great Jewish recipes too. … It’s yum tucker.

Kosher has similar rules and regulations ( except for pointing to Mecca !! ) …. in the slaughter of meat for consumption, and other food stuffs, that must be separated … e.g. milk cannot be cooked ( or perhaps even eaten ? ) …. with meat. [ and I have read that Muslims can eat kosher food if no halal cert. food is available – because of the similarities in preparation ]
diannaartJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:03 pm

Annie B

I used to live in St Kilda many moons ago and would love to go food shopping in Carlisle Street – miss the great array of food.

My comment re: Kosher and Halal was merely rhetorical – very sad for our Muslim brethren while the extremists continue to peddle evil.

Cheers
Annie BJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:37 pm

diannaart ….

I realised your comment was rhetorical, but also figured quite a few people might actually consider that question seriously …… so took the opportunity to run with it.

Besides which, it gave me a chance to have a crack at the anti-Muslim mob. …. There are so many more peaceful, joyful living Muslims in our community – yet all a lot of people can see is the bad apples that come from that community. …. The few that can be persuaded to join a jihad – who follow radical and religious extremism – which can be found in any religion ( if you look for it ).

I wondered what kind of community spawned Jeffrey Dahmer ( U.S. Serial killer and cannibal – now dead at the hands of another prison inmate ) …… and have found he was a member of a devout family who attended a Stone-Campbell denomination of the “Churches of Christ” … …. a bad apple, and perhaps religious fervour, contributed to that. Who would ever know.

,,,,,,

Ah – St. Kilda – what a fantastic area to visit or live.
KyranJanuary 18, 2015 at 3:43 pm

diannaart, you just reminded me of a yarn, a little off topic. Little Johnnie jokes used to be the fashion for miscreant youths and probably best depicted in this modern world as Bart Simpson. One of the stories went along the lines of Little Johnnie biting off more than he could chew and passing away. When he is being showed around heaven by one of the gods, he is told where all the religious “groups” were, but noticed a huge wall, concealing a group behind it. He asks the god “Why is there a wall and who’s behind it?” to which the god replies “They’re the Catholics, they like to think they’re the only ones up here.” Religions cooperating with each other indeed!
And Annie B, thank you. I will get the hang of this. It was Ms Lee’s suggestion that you should “right click” that initially confused me. I thought it might be an idealogical predisposition but I eventually worked it out. Would have looked like a git otherwise! Take care
MikeJanuary 18, 2015 at 11:40 pm

One of the problems I see with halal certification is that imams are now issuing fatwas stating only a muslim can process halal food, this opens a whole new can of exclusive and discriminatory worms. at only 2.2% of our population and a predilection to welfare, who is going to feed us? Must we convert or starve?

Other questions to ask ourselves:
What other country has a domestic halal certification scheme? why not?
If fish, dairy, water, and vegetables are automatically halal, why are certificates issued for them?
Why do plastic bags and transport companies need halal certification?
Annie BJanuary 19, 2015 at 1:04 am

Mike – I have to decide whether to take your questions, seriously or not !! ….. so I will opt for ‘seriously’.

“Halal is an Arabic term which means allowed, lawful, legal, or permissible under the Shariah (Islamic Law). This law is based on the Qur’an, Hadith (tradition of the Prophet Muhammad), Ijma (consensus), and Qiyas (deduction by analogy).”

that is from : http://www.idcphalal.com/halal.html

” Must we convert or starve ?” ……….. of course not. That is ridiculous. There are thousands of food processing plants in Australia and around the world, that do NOT have to submit to fatwas issued by imams. They are just every-day manufacturers of food products. Foods we have been used to using for decades. They are still with us !!

Another link that might assist is : http://www.worldhalalcouncil.com/about-us …. this will answer – for the most part, your comments about plastic bags, containers, fish, water etc. etc. and how many other countries have halal certification. There are many many countries that use Halal certification. To my knowledge, only Denmark has said NO to halal certification.

In a way, the whole Halal thing is a little similar to products ( nothing to do with Sharia law, Muslims or Imams ) …. that are required to label their products that have also had nuts, soy, wheat products etc, having been made on or near machinery / production lines etc….. in order to not have a child / adult with an allergy to such things become desperately ill. ….

These non-Muslim companies put these warnings on labels for two reasons … 1) – to help the purchaser know the dangers in buying say a product made with or on the same machinery where peanuts are used ( e.g. biscuits ) for a peanut allergic child, and 2 ) to cover their own backsides in the case of legal action being taken against the manufacturer.

I believe only Muslim ‘butchers’ ( certified to be such ) .. can slaughter an animal for consumption, using the Halal ( permitted ) method. …. However, if such food is not readily available, Muslims are permitted to eat Jewish ‘kosher’ foods ( which are manufactured under almost the same rules and regs. ) … and at a push ( that is if they are genuinely starving ) ……. they CAN eat non-Halal foods, made by other non-Muslim manufacturers.

I would think that every abbattoir employs at least 2 Muslim butchers … to comply with the Muslim laws, and thus have their meat sold to that specific market – legitimately.

Gluten free bread is made and sold ( very expensive ) for gluten intolerant folk by bread manufacturers who have decided to have the facilities to do so…..

I once asked a smallish bakery why they did not make gluten free bread. The reason ? ……. because they would have to have an entire area – sealed off against contamination, to make specifically gluten free products. If they attempted to make these products without that special area, the whole preparation area for any breads would have to be washed / cleansed 100% thoroughly, EVERY day, to avoid contamination, before gluten free product was being produced. Sounds odd, but makes sense.

Rest easy – there is nothing wrong with halal certification – it is not going to overwhelm us, or cause us starvation. It is a stamp ( as is on vegemite ) that tells Muslims that all is ok. You might be surprised to find how much halal certificed food stuffs you have in your own pantry.
LeaJanuary 19, 2015 at 2:21 am

Here, on this site, I have had the misfortune of reading the islamomarxist idea of Islam and Muslims. All is okay, because not all muslims are going out and beheading people, and they are really nice people. And so it is. However, this does not address the serious issue regarding their membership in the largest terrrorist organisations in the world, that churns out psychopaths daily.

One comment above states that the solution to the hated rightists, which I consider to be the sane and normal people in the world, is education. I would say that it all depends on the kind of education one receives, since currently the educational system will teach about western colonialism but fails to even mention the over one thousand year long colonisation by arab muslims, and how that all came to just happen within 100 years. Islam and muslims, or even arabs or turks, are not even mentioned.

Those of us who are Christians and Jews are told that Islam is an Abrahamic religion and off we go thinking they must be our buddies then. The truth is something strarkly and darkly very different. As we can tell by the fact that muslims who have the right conditions to create their militias with warlords, emulating their prophet, will and do just that and they wreak havoc, shattering millions upon millions of innocent people’s lives, whilst exercising their right to practise their religion freely, on the kaffirs and apostates, since this is an obligation for them. And this is where the terrorist potential lies for every muslim. And there are also many different levels to wage jihad against the kaffirs too.

The muslim living in the west are living according to our kaffir laws which criminalises the practise of jihad, whether violent or subversive. But because this huge terrorist organisation claims to be a religion only, it therefore has a privileged status which allows it to practise its political aims with absolute freedom. Muslims in islamic countries are living the sharia life, and it is one atrocity after the next. Devout muslims like those who belong to Hamas and Isis, would murder these kaffir muslims, and they are doing exactly that.

Anyone who educates themselves about Islam, the koran, hadiths and sira, the life of mahomet, will understand why it is that Islam is something to be rejected and ejected. Thank God, the uninformed and misled, form a minority in Australia, there is hope that the islamisation will be restricted from hereon, despite their pretense at self-righteousness, and realise that muslims are the greatest victims of islam, and that is why Islam remains a crime against humanity. Not that the islamomarxists on this thread really gives a damn, as long as they can pretend they are somehow superior to those who have a very different slant to the view of islam and muslims, and not without reason. In fact there is an abundance of evidence, which is growing daily, rather rapidly.
mark delmegeJanuary 19, 2015 at 2:41 am

I’m a little surprised that so much time is spent discussing food standards and you Lea seem to have less idea than most here. Most religions for most people are peaceful but in the hands of some they are used to divide and conquer. The most radical groups today have been promoted for the same reasons and its the foolish and gullible that get sucked in – but that’s the whole idea. I’ve linked a primer here for you to help bring you up to date in what is happening today in the world. As you finish reading this as dismiss me as a crank remember what they did in Vietnam or in Central America with the Contras or any other conflict in the last 50 odd years. Nothing much has changed.

http://journal-neo.org/2014/10/28/isis-america-s-terrorist-mercenaries/

of course you won’t read about it in your local paper or the national The Australia or on the ABC/SBS – but when did they tell the truth anyway?

I tried some bad jokes for levity in my attempt to match RossLeighs absurdism but I failed so I will go back to being serious.
Annie BJanuary 19, 2015 at 3:18 am

Lea …

You have mentioned the word ‘kaffir’ four times in your … er … um … post ?

I would suggest you find out what that word actually means – before using it in any forms of writing, or in any public forum. It comes from several sources.

” Our kaffir laws ” ? (4th paragraph) ………. What ARE you on about ? Are you using the word as a derogatory adjective there ???

You seem bent on contradicting yourself too …… ah well.

Beyond the points I have made, I say no more.

Wouldn’t touch the main of it with a 40 foot barge pole. !!
Annie BJanuary 19, 2015 at 4:10 am

Very interesting reading on that link Mark.

Didn’t surprise me though. …. Have long distrusted the war machine that is the U.S. – especially the right wing mob of losers, Bush, McCain and co. ….

McCain advocated ‘arming the rebels’ ( against Bashar al-Assad who is vile ) – and they ( the radical extremist Islamic rebels ) are now killing any time, anywhere. There’s a lot more about McCain to be found, too.

I agree with your comments in that post, as well. …..
Kaye LeeJanuary 19, 2015 at 7:05 am

Islamomarxist? kaffir? You obviously don’t live in Australia Lea….or if you do you have become victim to the rubbish that Pickering espouses. Can you tell me specifically how Australian Muslims have impacted on your life negatively?
diannaartJanuary 19, 2015 at 8:43 am

I realised your comment was rhetorical, but also figured quite a few people might actually consider that question seriously …… so took the opportunity to run with it.

Quite right too, Annie B. I guess such people fear that Islam will achieve the same reach into politics as have Christianity – although at barely 2% of the population compared to Christianity’s 61% they have a bit of catching up to do. My bet is that climate change will have well and truly kicked in by then and we will face severe problems (hoping the denialists are right, bwhaaahaaahhaaahaaaa).

As for St Kilda – twas an extraordinary time of my life – wonderful to have been a part of it before it was gentrified – couldn’t afford to live there now. 😀
AndrewJanuary 19, 2015 at 9:10 am

I liked your comment Lea, it gave a different view than the usual comments I have been reading here. I also believe that education is the key, but that is for people from all viewpoints. All the pro-Islam supporters saying Islam and Halal are good and anti-Islam supporters saying the opposite. I have no problem for Muslims to eat Halal food but why should I have to pay for it Kaye Lee? Halal certification costs would be added into the cost of a product which I shouldn’t have to pay for if I don’t need it. If Jews are going to their Kosher store to get their Kosher food, why can’t Muslims go to a Halal store to get their Halal food (and pay that little extra for Halal certification)? Then the other 97 or so % of Australia can make their choice from where to buy their food.
RossleighJanuary 19, 2015 at 9:12 am

Yes, and why can’t those people wanting “Heart Smart” food go to the Heart Smart Shop?
diannaartJanuary 19, 2015 at 10:50 am

@Rossleigh

Yes, indeedy… and vegetarians go to their vegan shops, glucose intolerant to GI shops, Catholics to their fish shops…
gangey1959January 19, 2015 at 6:47 pm

@Kyran. Hang in there kid. It will happen. I just wish I could type. Thank you miss Bedford for teaching me to spell, read, write, count, times tables, respect, etc etc. and that was all in term 1, grade Prep.
@Lea. What the ? Islamomarxist ? Australian INDEPENDENT Media Network. Free speech, Freedom of expression et al. Enough said. OK. I still didn’t understand a word of what you said, but you keep on trying anyway.

As long as Vegemite is safe I’m good. At the Knox Club sports bar I can get a porterhouse with mushroom and pepper sauce and chips and salad for $12, 7 days a week, lunch or dinner. Its the best steak dinner in Melbourne, and I don’t care how it’s been killed.
Tonight I’m playing Trivia in Ringwood. So there
revolutionarycitizenJanuary 19, 2015 at 7:27 pm

“Please explain to me why you think it is a ripoff?”

Because for one obvious reason, for the most part it is not a requirement of Islam to have food certified, as stated twice, a simple prayer before consumption of food makes it Halal, and everything that is Haram is explained explicitly in the Qur’an. Halal Certification never existed until recently, meaning Muslims managed for over 10 centuries without it. It also re-enforces a stereotype that most Muslims are poorly educated and have no concept of their faith, and judging by the growth in the Halal Certification industry this is either true, or it just another means for Muslims to pay more for products than they would other-wise have to.

Also, from an Australian trade point of view, our second largest export is Education, the total value of our exports to anywhere that needs Halal Certification is in the greater scheme of things minute. And is now being used as distraction for producers and consumers alike.

Australia should be focusing on breaking into the Europe, North America and North Asian agricultural markets on a much larger scale, but as long as people think there is more money than there really is to be made from trading with the largely impoverished Middle East and North Africa people will stop asking why we’ve been largely frozen out of the 3 largest food markets in the world.

Halal Certification is just another way that rich albeit Muslim industrialists get to treat the poor Muslim poorly.
corvus boreusJanuary 20, 2015 at 8:12 am

It seems some forms of dogmatic devotion to the dick-deity cause pork paranoia, and other food fetishes that need assuaging via the placebo of a labeling system. I do not need such optional assurances, and if displaying such a label makes a product dearer, I might choose not to buy it. I do, however, need to know if a product contains condensed milk as that causes me to erupt with hives for reasons unknown.
Kaye LeeJanuary 20, 2015 at 9:18 am

“I have no problem for Muslims to eat Halal food but why should I have to pay for it Kaye Lee?”

As with any other product, you have the choice of whether to buy it or not. If you feel it is too expensive then don’t buy it. Simple as that. Do you have any proof of products you buy being more expensive because of halal certification? Fleurieu Milk & Yoghurt Company paid $1000 for halal certification to supply a $50,000 yoghurt contract with Emirates Airlines. It was a very sensible business decision.

What is the difference with certification for grain-fed and grass-fed cattle? These cost more as do free range eggs. We have the choice.
Increased trade with the Middle East and South East Asia means Halal certification is a booming business in Australia.

The sector is projected to be worth $1.6 trillion worldwide by 2050, and Australian food exporters are racing to get into the market so it is actually MAKING money for this country.
Kaye LeeJanuary 20, 2015 at 9:35 am

A Cadbury spokesman said the “small fees” paid to certification bodies didn’t affect pricing and were more than offset by access to broader markets, which created more local jobs.

“It’s consumer information, similar to gluten-free or kosher labels … nothing in our products or the way we manufacture our products has been changed to attain halal certification,” he said.

A Nestle spokeswoman also said costs were not passed on to consumers, and she insisted halal certification was not used as a marketing tool.

“We will continue to have products in our range that are suitable for people with special dietary requirements,” she said.

AFIC spokesman Keysar Trad said that “hate groups” were trying to exploit fear against Muslims for their own political gain.

“They are withholding the fact that this certification is bringing to Australia billions of dollars in export revenue by bringing these products to Muslim consumers,” Mr Trad said.

Mr Trad said that Muslims just wanted certainty about what they were eating, and products such as chocolate bars often contained meat derivatives.
Annie BJanuary 20, 2015 at 9:08 pm

The title of this post “Forget Halal – I’ve discovered … etc ” ……. can be taken in a different way now. i.e.

( just ) ” Forget Halal “. …

Halal is not something that is going to damage us, cost us more, cause any anguish … so what more can be said.

It is similar to the information put on products that contain wheat / peanuts / dairy etc. for humans who have allergies to these products, except in this case it is specifically for a religious group – – – so what ! …

If we want to closely inspect all goods ( with a magnifitying glass and that’s often what it would take ) to find a halal certification on food – FINE ….. if we don’t —- FINE also.

And indeed, if we can bring more money into our manufacturing coffers, by allowing a little stamp that assures a very small % of the population that the food is good and genuine for them – I see nothing wrong with that.
CathyJanuary 21, 2015 at 1:30 am

If you think vegans are more dangerous than Islamic extremist, sharia law and the Halal movement in the world then your F**k*n Idiot who will regret your stupidity in the next 10 years when we are prisoners in our own country, or beheaded because we won’t convert….good luck I actually feel sorry for you.
corvus boreusJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:11 am

Cathy,
As those halal extremists pry the pickled pork from my cold, dead hands, I shall go to my matyrs’ slumber greatly comforted by your sympathies. You will, I take it, be choosing conversion over decapitation?
RoswellJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:19 am

Cathy doesn’t know satire when she sees it. So her response is extreme to say the least.
stephentardrewJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:22 am

Time to stop chasing the wind.
CathyJanuary 21, 2015 at 2:34 am

I would never convert, and to all who think I’m the idiot….well time will tell, you’ve only got to the research yourself, but each to their own..
corvus boreusJanuary 23, 2015 at 6:36 am

According to the wisdom of wiki, ‘Vegetarian bacon, also referred to as fakon, veggie bacon, or vacon, is a product marketed as a bacon alternative that is available in supermarkets.
Vegetarian bacon is also easy to make at home by marinating strips of tempeh or tofu in various spices and then deep frying. Aficionados of raw food also use coconut meat as a bacon substitute.Seitan can also be formed into bacon as well’.

I think it would be amusing to see “I can’t believe it’s not bacon” stamped both halal and kosher.
Could an imitation pig products made from imitation milksbe halal or kosher?
Probably not. According to wiki, ‘the makin of fake bacon can be a manifestation of seitan’.
JohnJanuary 26, 2015 at 12:56 am

Wont be to long and there will be a debate and movement on how to wipe ones arse .
Annie BJanuary 26, 2015 at 1:19 am

Horridly, I came across an article on the Internet, that underscores what Cathy was saying. …. That Sharia law will ‘ allegedly ‘ overcome us. Damned if I know where to find it now – somewhere in my cache history, but it eludes me. It is a terrifying prospect, however, the original most likely was written with a huge amount of bias.

Besides which, Aussies would never allow that to happen – no matter what.

@ John. I dare not reply to that comment – it would be viewed and discarded by Michael as ‘inappropriate’ – which it would and should be. 😉

Suffice to say it wouldn’t be too salubrious. !!! ??
MarkSeptember 7, 2015 at 9:18 am

Am atheist trying to work out which religion to join ….
Not sure what I prefer …
Beheading people or f$&@ing little boys up da ass
Either way I look forward to and appreciate all your support at this left wing wank off

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