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Dear World, please accept our invitation to re-settle Pauline Hanson

By Erin Chew

Dear World,

My name is Erin, and I am a proud Australian. I also come from an Asian background.

My country recently voted in the federal elections and a woman named Pauline Hanson was elected into the Senate. Pauline has been in the spotlight for 20 years because of the hateful words she preaches towards cultural diversity and social cohesion. She is the founder and the leader of a political party called ‘One Nation’ which is anti everything to do with multiculturalism. Twenty years ago when she first entered politics she was against our First Nation’s people: Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, and not long after was very anti-Asian, claiming that people coming from my cultural background were “swamping” the country.

In 2003 she was jailed over quashed political corruption charges but has since became a ‘celebrity’ and a household name. Australia’s media (which has a diversity issue itself) enabled her to have a platform to spout her hateful and dividing words. And since then she has inspired the development of movements which are full of ignorant and hateful people who are loud and proud against Muslims and Islam, and who see Asians as acting against their “economic interests”. These groups include The United Patriots Front, Rise Up Australia, The Australian Liberty Alliance, The Australian Protectionist Party and The Party For Freedom, and all they do is coordinate rallies and protests against the fabric that makes up Australia — DIVERSITY. They are no different in many ways from the Ku Klux Klan (KKK) or any other racist white supremacist groups and I would even go as far as calling them terrorists because they are confronting and scare me more than anything else. They oppose Muslim women wearing a hijab, burqa or a niqab, but they themselves drape the Australian flag over their faces which is more confronting than their rhetoric on opposing Muslim head scarves. For some, their rallies are marred by violence and they spout hate everywhere they go, and they put the majority of peace-loving Australians to shame because what they are doing is really “un-Australian”.

TV personalities in Australia who have no qualifications whatsoever to speak about diversity and social cohesion have also come out in strength; boldly demonstrating their ignorance. Big Brother Australia host Sonia Kruger only days ago came out on the Today Show stating (without any facts or proper information) that she supports a ban on Muslim migration into Australia, and manipulated the idea of #AsAMother. Without any basis or idea on what she is talking about Sonia pushed her ignorance into the mainstream, and in a flash became a demographer, stating that:

there is a correlation between the number of people who are Muslims in a country and the number of terrorist attacks.

As an Asian Australian, I feel hurt, offended and ashamed of the country I was born and have grown up in. It is a land which has provided many opportunities to myself and my family and I deeply love Australia. But I do not like where it is going now with the resurrection of Pauline Hanson and her One Nation party (who according to the electoral commission will get 2 more seats in the Australian Senate). Pauline has inspired a new generation of race and religion hate-groups and what I am requesting on behalf of more than 11 million Australians who didn’t vote for her and her party (400,000 Australians voted for her and/or her party) is that another country, any country actually, will accept our offer for her re-settlement.

Maybe you have a vacant island which you would like to populate, so we will accept that also. The majority of Australians do not want Pauline Hanson in our country or hear her voice and hateful words anymore. We would appreciate your cooperation.

We look forward to hearing from you soon,

Yours Sincerely,

Australians of all colours and backgrounds

This article was first published as ‘Dear World, Please Accept Our Petition To Re-Settle Pauline Hanson‘ on thisasianwomansays.


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  1. Freethinker

    The way to fix it is to change the way that votes are allocated and remove preferences.
    Perhaps we can add removing the law of compulsory voting?

  2. townsvilleblog

    Erin, you are most welcome, and we support your candidate for deportation to a safe country like the USA lol!

  3. longwhitekid

    It infuriates me that my taxes fund this piece of human garbage. She personifies white trash.

  4. townsvilleblog

    No way, we need compulsory voting. If we made it optional some people would not bother turning up but you can bet your last dollar that the rich, and business people would turn up to vote the L&NP/LNP into power, so working class Australia continue to receive tiny wage increases as under the present L&NP/LNP govt. And “their” govt would continue with their “austerity” policies to make the rich, much richer, and the poor far more poorer. No way, we need compulsory voting for every citizen. Every citizen should fulfill their responsibility to make themselves aware of what the different political parties stand for. Please don’t tell me they are all the same, there is only one party proposing to “give” $48 billion to corporate Australia in exchange for a 0.01% increase in Australia’s economy, bloody hell what does it take for people to wake up and smell the roses?

  5. John Richardson

    I wonder if we could we send George, Eric, Corey, Steve, George, Peter, Josh, Zed, Arthur & “Phoney Tony” with her?

  6. Freethinker

    townsvilleblog the problem with compulsory voting is that we are forcing politically uneducated people to vote and therefore we finishing with some element in the parliament that are negative to the progress of the country.

  7. The AIM Network

    Thank you, Dan. Yes, we thought it prudent to alter that from the original.

  8. Terry2

    Erin thank you for your contribution.

    Joe Biden, US Vice President in Australia last week gave a thoughtful speech during which he touched on the race problems in the US, noting that there is only one race and that is the human race.

  9. Michael Taylor

    Terry2, I recall an earlier visit from a VP: Dick Cheney. John Howard pledged technical support in the Iraq war, and shortly after $500M was taken from Newstart and the DSP. Coincidence?

  10. jimhaz

    [I guess the ultimate question is: who do we hate so much we’d want to lumber them with Pauline?]

    Perhaps a diplomatic posting to Donald Trump as a ‘poissonnier’.

    I just like the word association with poisoner.

    We know Donald would expect a freebie, and PC is not cheap (senator’s salary/perks) but the muslim population would gladly fund it. It would be an offer the Don could not refuse.

  11. Keitha Granville

    the only way to defeat these hateful people is to allow them the right of free speech, and then to demonstrate that we are all better than that. They will eventually implode – just as she did the first time around. She is uneducated,and deeply unintelligent, so she has no chance of effecting any of her hateful policies. Even with 3 like her in the Senate she has no power. Don’t give her any of your time, don’t listen to her hate. Work on being the sort of Australian that the majority of us strive to be – tolerant , inclusive, friendly and welcoming. That’s how we beat them.

  12. Michael Taylor

    I’m afraid you could be right, Dan.

  13. Neil of Sydney

    John Howard pledged technical support in the Iraq war, and shortly after $500M was taken from Newstart and the DSP. Coincidence?

    Most probably coincidence but i notice you like to send out the smell of possible wrong doing with no evidence. Funding for Newstart most probably fell because unemployment went from 8% to 4% under Howard therefore no need for that funding money.

    As for the topic of being anti-Asian, my memory is that we were anti-Japanese because of what they did in WW2. I think most Asians do not like the Japanese as well. I wonder if the author of this article would say nothing if 100,000 Japanese migrated to her parents country?

    Me- I am anti Eastern Europeans. They do not want to live there. But they come here expecting high paid jobs because they get paid $12K/year in Russia. I guess people are worried about losing their jobs rather than being racist.

    Fact is there is large scale migration around the world from poorer countries to wealthy countries. The poor old USA is getting 30,000 illegals/month crossing the Rio Grande.

  14. Jack Russell

    This time around, in addition to her repeated platform, might vengeance be a new addition? Given her nature, perhaps Tony Abbott’s previous treatment of her didn’t go down well . . .

  15. Terry2


    Good point, I note that as a result of Biden’s visit we are upping our contribution to training Iraqi troops and police.

    We seem to have been training these guys for about twelve years now . I wonder has anybody told them about ‘training the trainer’ which should take no more than six months at Puckapunyal and they can go back and train there own people and we can pull out once and for all.

  16. Kaye Lee

    Pauline brings Malcolm Roberts with her, There goes any action on climate change. Jacqui Lambie doesn’t understand/believe in it either and Xenophon went along with the ridiculous inquiry into wind farms. Not sure about Hinch.

  17. Michael Taylor

    Neil, you’ve questioned me about this once before, and I’ll now say the same thing I said to you the last time. Meet me in about 30 years time and I’ll tell you what I know. I am under oath not to disclose what went on. If you don’t believe me then that’s bad luck. End of story.

  18. Jaq

    IQ tests for voting?

  19. Shogan

    Pauline Hanson & all who feed off her is the price we have to pay for one man’s ego to be an elected Prime Minister…an ego so powerful that he couldn’t wait an extra 3 months for a normal election & by calling a double dissolution lowered the quota for senators to be elected which has enabled One Nation to gain more than just a foot in the door…if people think the gauntlet of opposing protesters heralding the arrival of Pauline Hanson to Q&A on Monday night was outrageous all I can say is, you ain’t seen nothing yet!!

    With some help from Sonya Kruger there is a survey going around that has more than 80% support for stopping the intake of Muslims into Australia…on Tuesday I watched the anti-Muslim hate blossom over many Facebook sites I follow that by evening had reached a crescendo of hate filled bile & it’s only been a couple of weeks since the outcome of the election became clear.

    I hope you’re happy with the results of your actions Malcolm, but I for one no longer think it’s an exciting time be an Australian!!

  20. Kyran

    As best as I can tell, there are only three countries that take refugee’s from Australia.
    Nauru. Having had a just and fair election, recently, they might contemplate it. Notwithstanding the dog, adeang’s, protestations, their little island is full. Not like ‘Australia’ is full. 10,000 people, swelled by 10% because of their willingness to warehouse refugee’s (and their ‘carers’, (you know, Wilson Security, the AFP)) on an island the size of an Australian metropolitan suburb. We might have to give that one a miss.

    PNG. Little bit of a problem there. “The five-man bench of the court ruled the detention breached the right to personal liberty in the PNG constitution.” We might have to give that one a miss.

    Cambodia. Clearly, the voice of reason must prevail. She no longer hate’s Asian’s. She replaced her hatred of ‘them’ with another ‘them’. It’s not like we haven’t paid our freight with Cambodia, she can even bring her supporters.

    I remain unconvinced that you can resettle the unsettled.
    Thank you, Ms Chew. Take care

  21. Neil of Sydney

    Most people are worried about immigration because they are worried about their jobs.

    The White Australia policy started by the ALP was not only racist. People were worried that people from China would come to Australia work for half wages and drive the wages of everybody else down.

    I used to be involved in Australian science but lost my job when the 5th Russian turned up and volunteered to work for nothing. It happens. Research in Australia is contract work so there are no award wages.

    I wonder what the author of this article would say if 100,000 Japanese or Russians wanted to migrate to her parents country

  22. Tony Stevens

    As always with people who’s views are to the left of centre, you speak as if the people who voted her in were bad people, criminals even. Please allow me to point out that we, both you and I live in a democratic country where every person has a right to their opinions even if or especially if you or I do not agree with their views. That is one of the benefits of living in a free society, to have your opinion and the freedom to express it, and I for one would hope not to be denigrated or denied my opinion. With respect, we need to be more tolerant of people who have different opinions to ourselves, if not, then we are not conversing, we are definitely being exclusive. Pauline Hanson is entitled to be where she is, there were close to a million people who voted for her.

  23. Möbius Ecko

    “With respect, we need to be more tolerant of people who have different opinions to ourselves…”

    That’s the whole problem with Pauline Hanson, she’s not tolerant of people who have different opinions to her, especially if they are racially different. Then surely it follows those who voted for her are also intolerant.

  24. Kaye Lee

    Pauline may have been elected but that does not give her free rein to spout her rubbish unquestioned. The things she says are factually incorrect. Her misinformation should be challenged. As an elected leader of our country she has a responsibility to all citizens – white, black, yellow or brindle. She should be allaying fears, not stoking them. Vilifying specific sections of our community is not acceptable. If she wants to behave that way, she should have become a radio shock jock. She has become a rallying point for hatred and intolerance and as such must be exposed and her attempts to divide us rejected. Discrimination and racial/religious intolerance are illegal. If Pauline can’t uphold the laws of the land then she should not have run for parliament.

  25. helvityni

    Tony Stevens, just because almost a million people voted for Pauline, does not make her a tolerant inclusive politician; it just proves that there are plenty of racist people in this country…

    I’m still waiting for those Syrians Dutton promised to take in. I hope it’s not going to be yet another broken promise.

  26. Kaye Lee

    As of mid-March this year….

    “Mr Dutton today said a total of 29 refugees had been resettled as part of that intake”

  27. Rachel

    Yes, everyone’s entitled to an opinion. Which means the writer of this article is also entitled to HER opinion. I’m entitled to my opinion that Hanson’s ideas, and those of people like her (Bernardi, Christensen and so on) are bigoted, divisive and dangerous, and that people who hate others simply because they don’t believe in the same deity or have a different skin colour, ethnic background, gender or sexuality, are not nice people. We’re not talking about a theoretical debate about who was the most deserving Brownlow medallist of the last decade or whether Taylor Swift is better than Metallica. These views have consequences.

    What Hanson and those who voted for her are not entitled to is:
    1. Freedom from criticism and challenge by virtue of the fact that what they’re expressing is “their opinion”, especially if what they do and say hurts other people;
    2. Their own facts.

  28. Terry2

    This from the Weekend Australian on 18 June but surprisingly little public information available, seems to be the way that Dutton works :

    “Only 3000 refugees displaced by the war in Syria have been resettled in Australia this financial year, though the federal government set aside an additional 12,000 places for Syrians and Iraqis fleeing the murderous Assad ­regime and Islamic State.

    However, government figures supplied to The Weekend Australian suggest refugees have begun to arrive in greater numbers and that the humanitarian response to the ongoing conflict will accelerate in coming months.

    At the start of this week, more than 7500 Syrians and Iraqis sheltering in refugee camps in Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon had been ­issued visas by the Australian government. Of those, 3001 arrived in Australia for resettlement.

    Last week, 346 new arrivals were resettled. Refugee agencies confirmed that many of the new arrivals had been settled in the NSW regional centres of New­castle and Wollongong.”

  29. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Thanks Erin

    and thanks Rachel also for defining what Hanson is not entitled to do.

    While I agree Hanson is a divisive political figure who is given unwarranted celebrity status on stupid commercial television, I am also mindful that she is capable of attracting marginalised people, who feel ignored by current neoliberal practices performed by both major parties of recent decades.

    While multiculturalism is a wonderful thing, we need some circumspection on how our socio-economic system is coping according to the immigration rates, as they have existed in recent decades. We know real unemployment and under-employment is increasing; we know affordable housing accessibility is declining; we know livability in our cities is declining as daily transmutes are increasing, so why aren’t we taking a hard look at reducing the rate of immigration so that existing diverse Australians have equitable access to what our country has to offer?

    Since I care very much about what is happening to the desperate people on Nauru and Manus and in the assorted other detention centres, I like Erin’s idea of swapping Hanson and her political opportunists for those in detention.

    I also like the idea of increasing the numbers and speed of accepting legitimate asylum seekers and refugees. Like Helvi, I wonder how many Syrian refugees Dutton has allowed in so far considering we promised 12,000 when Abbott was still in office.

    But I am mindful that we cannot afford to isolate any more dissatisfied and marginalised people in all pockets of Australian socio-economic life anywhere any longer because they have rights also and their rights are our rights.

  30. cornlegend

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith
    Did you sign her up for the ALLiance? 😀

  31. jimhaz

    I don’t consider a strong limitation on muslim immigration to be racist. I have a feeling the LNP government already has the policy in place. I don’t know if the very low Syrian refugee intake has a corresponding decrease in numbers in the immigration arena.

    There are adequate security and cultural acceptability reasons to do so, so I regard it as fair. Considering that we can be as selective as we want, I support the idea (on a temporary basis). For me the question is more one of whether it would be wise or not. The more consideration I give the issue, the more the answer turns out to be No.

    My view is that the bulk of the current Australian muslim dynamic is sufficiently westernised and tolerant enough to accept it, and those that wouldn’t are most likely already under scrutiny – but I would still be reasonably certain that the security assessment would be ”too much potential downside”.

    Outside of the probably negative security analysis, and the cost of the policy to our reputation on the world stage, and the issue of breaking long held multicultural principles, what would most likely make any parliamentary or public consideration of the issue impossible is Hanson herself. Her uncouthness would cause far too many ripples. Even the LNP gov would have no alternative but to immediately reject any consideration of such a policy. Lol, if the LNP does have this policy in place on the sly, then Hanson might force them to loosen that policy.

    The rest of Hanson’s muslim policies being blatantly and unfairly punitive on even very moderate people here have nothing going for them and would be a total disaster. I presume major parties will be making promises to muslim leaders that none of Hanson’s policies have any chance of being adopted.

  32. Jason Whalan

    I find it ironic you claim the Australian media has a diversity problem yet the only real media personality to express a view on the limitation of immigrants, being Sonia Kruger who you mentioned in your sensationalised article, has been belittled and outcasted by the media ever since. I do share the same opinion that there is a diversity problem in the media but I feel the sentiment is the opposite of what you are suggesting. Basically you don’t want ANY diversity in opinion which might sway from your own isn’t that right?

    And I would love to know what your qualifications are to be commenting on diversity and social cohesion above others, is there a course people can attend?

    I feel maybe you should look at immigration as the political subject that it is and not assume it is always racial context because that is a freedom Australia and every country needs to be afforded in any political discussion surrounding immigration and border protection.

    I’m not sure if you know anything about democracy but I’m sure you understand Hanson was elected because the people voted for her… If those people have a different view to you then that is unfortunate but it is your assumption that you know better, and that same assumption by the elitists of this country which has fostered this love for Hanson, a person who fights for the views of typical Australians and not for foreign entities. And if you think this election was bad wait til the next. If that is something which frightens you, maybe move to a country which sports dictatorship as you seem to want in our country.

  33. cornlegend

    It isn’t something that will be considered for a couple of years but the cold hard facts of life are Parties are out to win elections .
    Polling and focus groups [both which piss me off} will play a key role in policy.
    Which base has the largest voter base the Muslim community or those opposed to Islam?
    It will work on that issue much the same as it has on Asylum seeker policy, but with some minor changes so as to differentiate the political brand
    That is the cold hard reality

  34. cornlegend

    Jason Whalan

    You talk about democracy and freedom .
    Years ago, after one of my rants online, a friend sent my a series of questions “What if?”

    Would you like to have a go at considering them?

    “What if you were allowed to vote only because it didn’t make a difference?
    What if no matter how you voted the elites always got their way?
    What if the concept of one person/one vote was just a fiction created by the government to induce your compliance?
    What if big government destroys people’s motivations and democracy convinces them that the only motivation they need is to vote and go along with the results?
    What if the problem with democracy is that the majority thinks it can right any wrong, write any law, tax any event, regulate any behavior and acquire any thing it wants?

    What if the government misinforms voters so they will justify anything the government wants to do?
    What if Joe Stalin was right when he said the most powerful person in the world is the guy who counts the votes?
    What if the vote counting that really counts takes place in secret?
    What if the government believes in make believe?

    What if its make believe that the people have a voice?

    What if the government made believe that it is always right?
    What if it made believe that the majority can do no wrong?
    What if the tyranny of the majority is as destructive to human freedom as the tyranny of a madman?
    What if the government knows this?

  35. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    So you’re talking to me again, cornlegend? Got over your little tantrum, have you?

    GO The ALLiance of rational, inclusive, reformist, groundbreaking, democratic socialist changemakers for the better.

    I see them coming from the Greens, the left and unaligned factions of Labor, some important Independents like Wilkie, even Xenophon on a good day.

    I don’t think Hanson fits that profile, do you?

    Repeat, GO The ALLiance!

  36. cornlegend

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith
    Got over your little tantrum, have you?
    No, not all the while you invent shit .
    This was an exception, just to give your coalition a first starter.
    you have to start somewhere and so far SFA

  37. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    My apologies to Erin,

    on behalf of cornlegend who is attempting to hijack the discussion – yet again! 🙁

  38. keerti

    This might be a fair solution…Naru has been all but destroyed by phosphate mining. Much of the spoils have gone to australia.In a fair exchange we could offer the citizens of Naru resettlement in Australia and in return pauline and her like minded friends could become Naruins.

  39. geoffW

    Erin, it sounds like you are cast in the same mold as Pauline. You seem to be making the same point as her. You should be on the same boat as Pauline.

  40. Kumar

    Isn’t democracy great. Where the silent majority can walk into a poling booth and anonymously cast a vote. The silent majority that is sick of the left propagand and the silent majority that just speaks once at the election when it actually matters. Left groups (getup) etc and websites like this set up to influence the masses. The silent majority is speaking across the world, so listen carefully you lefties. Second lowest primary vote for labour in its history. Greens going backwards in their primary vote. Rise of the independent conservative parties. Lefties having their knickers in a twist.

  41. The AIM Network

    You should be on the same boat as Pauline.

    At least you’re suggesting that Pauline should be on the boat. 🙂

  42. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    have you lost your bearings? Your uninformed and divisive comments are more suited to the assorted RWNJ social media sites.

    Also, before you go, don’t get too cocky about your neoliberal agenda. The tide is turning. It doesn’t take one election to prove that. It takes two.

    Prepare for an LNP annihilation next time.

  43. Michael Taylor

    Yes indeed, Jennifer. Labor picked up a dozen or so extra seats this election. I predict they pick up more in the next one.

  44. Michael Taylor

    “Websites like this set up to influence the masses”.

    Is that right, Kumar? What inside information do you have that we don’t?

    I now demand that the owners of this site come clean and tell us their true intentions!

  45. Kumar

    I would have voted for liberal if Tony Abbott was still leading the party but I and many others I know didn’the. I voted for a conservative party that is opposed to Islam. Had I know about 1 nation I would have voted for them, next time I will depending on who leads the liberal party. Rise of Islam is the biggest threat to the future of this country, not immediately but for future generations. You can allready see it creeping in. Islamic this Islamic that. Halal certifications for almost every food etc etc. How many Hindu this or Hindu that, Buddhists his or Buddhist that, Sikh this or Sikh that or special certified foods that you hear of? You only have to see what is happening around the world and read the history of Islam. The biggest threat to this country is islam and it’s left group traitors.

  46. Michael Taylor

    Exactly! All those damn lefty religious freaks are destroying the country!

  47. Carol Taylor

    Kumar, try kosher. Just in case you’ve never heard of it, clearly having lead a very sheltered’s Jewish and in fact is the same in many ways as Halal. You in fact eat Halal most times you eat chicken as in Australia we kill chooks the same way. All that is needed is a cleric to offer thanks for the life of the chook. Damn, I guess there goes your weekly fix of KFC.

  48. Kaye Lee

    ” Second lowest primary vote for labour in its history. ”

    Could I point out that they gained 14 seats.

    “Left groups (getup) etc and websites like this set up to influence the masses.”

    Did it ever occur to you that what we are trying to do is promote discussion and inform that “silent majority” who doesn’t give a rat’s ass from one election to the next, those “anonymous” people who do not take the time to find out the truth, the ones who blindly follow what radio shock jocks and Murdoch minions tell them.

    “The silent majority is speaking across the world, so listen carefully you lefties.”

    It would be great if the silent majority did start thinking but, to be taken seriously, you need to be able to back up what you say with factual evidence. What I will not do is unquestioningly accept bullshit. State your case with facts to back it up and we have a basis for debate, but facts don’t fit in well with irrational fear and denial.

    I definitely hear Christian this and Christian that in many aspects of my life. Islam this and that does not feature in any way. As for food, why do you care? Do you also hate people who choose free range eggs and grain fed beef and gluten free food? My vegan nephew won’t even wear leather. Should he be considered a terrorist?

  49. cornlegend

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith
    Don’t take the liberty of apologising for me,
    If I felt the need , I would, not your business really

  50. Kaye Lee

    Also on the silent majority speaking out across the world, I think you will find growing inequality far more of a cause of that than Islam. People are looking for scapegoats for what they perceive as a lowering of their standard of living. Instead of blaming the rapacious greed of corporations who refuse to fulfill their part of the social contract, they ignorantly blame their social disadvantage on “foreigners”. Voting in conservative governments will entrench disadvantage. Look to the real cause and stop blaming innocent people.

  51. Kumar

    Very elitist view above. If you don’t agree with the left agenda you are uneducated etc etc and don’t give a rat’s a… Etc are a red neck, a racist, homophobe etc. It’s not all binary people, has to be this or has to be that and nothing in between. Get out and talk to real Muslims who don’t give a rat’s ass about Islam and their fears for the future for this country and themselves, ever wondered why many use Christian names? Ask them about this elitist attitude where issues and events are not called out for what they are and in fact are implicitly supported by the left.

    Goods that classified as halal the company pays for that certification. Who do you think covers the cost? The consumer. Only a few cents but all adds up and goes to who? Ever asked yourself how mosques pop up in small towns where there the Muslim population is so small that donations would not cover the land and building of the mosque? Where did the money for that come from? Its a gradual creep but it’s happening.

  52. Bacchus

    Just on costs of Halal certification, the Australian Food and Grocery Council has the following to say:

    “Why should I have to pay for certification on the products I buy?

    In the same way as organic certifications or the National Heart Foundation ‘tick’ logo, manufacturers only obtain halal certification if it is worth their while to do so. Australia’s food manufacturing industry is highly competitive and exposed to competition from imports, so manufacturers do not pay for certifications they cannot use. So when manufacturers consider whether to seek halal certification, they consider whether the marketing benefits of certification outweigh the costs involved. In other words, certification is only worthwhile if it will increase sales opportunities to a broader range of consumers, either domestically or in export markets. In most cases, this means that the costs of certification are highly unlikely to influence product pricing, and so consumers do not end up paying any more for certified product.

    There can be higher costs in relation to fresh meat intended for export markets with large Islamic populations, but in most cases certification is only sought for those processing facilities that deal with meat for export. There are many meat processing facilities in Australia that are not halal certified, so competition again limits the ability for certification costs to be passed on in the domestic market.”

    So mainly due to competitive pressure and economies of scale, in most cases Halal certified food isn’t costing you anything extra…

  53. Kumar

    Funny thing, lefties love Islam, hate religion, love atheist and safe school, penis tucking, breast binding grooming of little school kids to porn etc etc in the name of school bulling. Islam hates atheist, hates gays, hates other religions love naive lefties. … Wonder how this gets played out….

  54. Matters Not

    Had I know about 1 nation I would have voted for them

    Kumar you really do keep up with the current political debate. Well informed and all that. ? ? ? ? ? ?

    Rise of Islam is the biggest threat to the future of this country … You can allready see it creeping in

    Been saying that since the Battle of Broken Hill.

    One of the Five Pillars of Islam is the giving of ‘Alms to the Poor’. Helping out the needy and all that. But I can’t see that taking root in Australia. In fact Morrison promises to go entirely in the other direction with a welfare crackdown while the LNP in general promises even more ‘poor’ with the abolition of penalty rates and the like.

    “lefties love Islam, hate religion,”

    But now I realise that Kumar is simply taking the piss.

  55. Kumar

    Dan Brown

    Just to be clear what I ment to say was, Muslims who are very liberal in their view and not religious, but do follow their culture. They are worried …

    “Get out and talk to real Muslims who don’t give a rat’s ass about Islam”

    This gets my vote as the most bizarre sentence, so far, of 2016.

  56. randalstella

    Holy Grail, Batman!
    He has to be taking the piss.

  57. Kaye Lee

    “ever wondered why many use Christian names? ”

    Because of the harrassment and discrimination they endure if they give their real names? Kids who live in Western Sydney often lie about their addresses or the school they went to when applying for jobs for the same reason.

    Or perhaps it could be so we linguistically limited Aussies can pronounce it?

  58. Kaye Lee

    Can you tell me what “Muslim culture” is?

    Is it Turkish culture, or Indonesian, or Bangladeshi, or Ethiopian, or Russian etc etc etc?

  59. Carol Taylor

    Kumar and,

    “Get out and talk to real Muslims who don’t give a rat’s ass about Islam”

    This gets my vote as the most bizarre sentence, so far, of 2016.

    Not really, how many ‘Christians’ do you know practice actual Christianity? Go to church regularly? Are regular attendees at Confession? Have the priest/minister around for lunch? Pay tithes? Abstain from fornicating? Don’t eat meat on Fridays? Observe Lent?

    Kaye Lee, excellent point – well there’s Muslim Americans, Muslim Malaysians, Muslim Japanese, Muslim Lebanese (even though Lebanon is around 41% Christian), Muslim Indonesians, Muslim name a few..and wait for it..there are even Muslim Australians.

  60. Neil of Sydney

    I think immigration may be one of the reasons Britain left the EU. I think a lot of working class Brits were getting sick of their jobs being taken by Poles, Ukranians and other Eastern Europeans. Just because you are against some types of immigration does not make you racist.

    I think the fairest form of immigrations is unskilled. WE should not be flying in Doctors , Lawyers Dentists, Scientists unless there is a shortage.

  61. Kaye Lee

    Approximately 1.3 million Britons live and work in Europe Neil. It goes both ways.

    As for Australia, according to the Coalition government, that is the only way they can get 457 visas – if there is a shortage.

    If you are concerned that they are not adhering to the rules, then support unions in their fight to keep employers and the government honest and accountable.

  62. Kaye Lee


    Are you suggesting that the 60% of the population who identified as Christian at the last census are actively practising?

  63. Kaye Lee

    I agree we should stop putting down Christian on the census. I myself have done that in the past, thinking it oh so rebellious of me to not be saying Catholic or Protestant. It was my teenage children who liberated me from my childhood indoctrination at the last census where they insisted I put no religion for them.

  64. Jack Straw

    Whats Neil doing back on this Blogg I thought he’d been black banned?

  65. Kaye Lee

    I am resisting Windows 10 too. I know nothing but I pay a man to be my consultant on such matters and he says resist. Since he is the one who has to troubleshoot when things go wrong, I listen to him.

  66. Neil of Sydney

    Approximately 1.3 million Britons live and work in Europe Neil. It goes both ways.

    And most Brits working in Europe will probably go back home. The Eastern Europeans are different. They are economic refugees.
    Must be a terrible place to live because they cannot wait to get out. They are different. They are educated with degrees and are unwilling to do menial work. They want the best jobs and are very pushy people.

  67. Kaye Lee

    Ohhhhhhh NOW i get it. They follow the culture of their country, not their religion. So you agree that Muslims are all different and that we can’t generalise, or ascribe the practices of Muslims in other countries to the practices of Muslims in, say, Australia?

  68. Kaye Lee

    On the subject of “verily easily led” I will go further to suggest that Islamophobia facilitates extremism on both sides. Unjustly marginalising Australian Muslims provides fertile ground for IS to recruit people to their cause.

  69. Kaye Lee

    Having listened to the tapes recently of young men being groomed, the idea of some life after death, with special rewards, also seems to be a contributing factor in duping some young people into becoming cannon fodder.

    I find this problematic with most religions. I can understand trying to assuage the grief of loss with the idea that you will meet up again (kinda), but I get concerned when it becomes more important than life here and now. I understand prayer and confession (kinda) but not when they absolve you from doing the right thing here and now. We all make mistakes but chanting shouldn’t be a pardon, and the promise of Nirvana a temptation.

  70. Terry2

    I thought Australia had a unique culture…………….or am I thinking of yoghurt ?

  71. Matters Not

    Here’s a few clues: Kumar (now the third most popular ‘family name in India) opens with:

    Indian culture is different

    Kumar’s choice of starting point for his ‘insights’ is India, which is the first time India gets a mention in the thread. Kumar is popular in India as a first, middle and family name for those who adherents to the Hindu religion. Islam and Hindu have a long history of conflict.

    Anyone care to speculate? Are we seeing ‘clashes’ imported to Australia? Should we be banning Hindus? Or just their head coverings? Maybe their cricketers?

    Elementary my dear Watson.

  72. Kaye Lee

    I would think that Indian Australians would have more empathy considering the racist attacks that have been perpetrated on Indian students in Melbourne.

  73. Michael Taylor

    “What’s Neil doing back on this blog?”

    Actually sticking to the topic (for once). It is welcomed, oddly enough.

  74. Michael Taylor

    Kumar, your argument is being destroyed by intelligent people who have the capacity for independent thought. You might have picked up that they are not the type of people who believe something simply because they read in in the mainstream media.

  75. Matters Not

    the racist attacks … on Indian students in Melbourne

    Bloody Muslims are everywhere. ? ?

    Besides I thought the Adani mine was their revenge.

    Perhaps not Sharia but the resurrection of Sati?

  76. Matters Not

    Now that the fun is over for me (football broadcast on the way), what is the simple solution? Perhaps in no more than a paragraph? And there’s no using double spacing or CAPITALS. ? ? ?

  77. Kaye Lee


  78. Matters Not

    Yes 42 is the answer (and always is) and it follows that the question was irrelevant. As will be the next.

    But if you are looking for someone to hate, it will be someone who is ‘different’ in any number of possible ways. Just take a pick.

  79. Kaye Lee

    No-one has the answer. No society will ever be perfect. There will always be people who do the wrong thing. That does not mean we should live in fear. It does not mean we should turn on each other. We should recognise that we are starting from a very good place and aim to improve it to make all Australians, regardless of designation, feel valued and safe. This is Australia – diversity welcome, division not.

  80. Kaye Lee

    “The very notion of non-divisive diversity is breathtakingly crazy.”


  81. Michael Taylor

    Kumar, people have tried to engage with you but you insist on being a jerk. Now piss off.

  82. Kaye Lee

    Kumar, do you view education as a bad thing? Do you find it threatening? I have dealt with many Muslim people over the years who have had an enormous diversity of beliefs. Tell me, how do you determine if someone is a good Muslim or not….does it depend on them getting pissed and eating pork? How about if they work hard, pay taxes. bring their children up to be constructive contributing citizens? Which is more important, what they eat or what they do?

    Why do you feel so threatened by homosexuality?

    It seems to me that you are not confident enough in your own skin to allow others to be different and that is a sad thing but you should stop projecting your irrational fears (all lefties love penis tucking and breast binding). I truly feel sorry for you.

  83. Kaye Lee

    I suppose I mean fear. I have no concerns about homosexuality other than the discrimination and harassment they face. I have no problem with people being religious unless they insist that I must worship too. I have no problem with people looking different, wearing different clothes, eating different foods. Provided people live and let live, why should diversity cause division? It is insistence on conformity that causes the problems in my opinion.

  84. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Non-divisive diversity means respectful co-existence.

    Well functioning socio-economic systems, which work effectively for the 99% allow such co-existence because people don’t feel they must compete for their basic needs: affordable housing, meaningful employment, standards of living and safe and undamaged environments for their families and friends.

  85. Kaye Lee

    Very good point JMS. When people feel economically secure they seem far more able and likely to accept diversity.

  86. Neil of Sydney

    Lefties in general seem to be in favor of open borders whereas in general Conservatives like secure borders. But i have seen in one profession what happens with open borders.

    Science is the first profession with no borders. Every research scientist must publish, write, present at conferences in English. No other language is accepted any more so every scientist in the world must know English.

    In Eastern Europe scientists get paid $12K/year which is low even by Eastern European standards. They can barely survive. In Australia research scientists get paid $90K/year plus 17% Super. So they all want jobs in Australia, USA,Canada, Britain. They know the language and their qualifications are accepted.

    So why employ them? Well they are talented but they are willing to work for half wages. Research is all contract work so the boss writes a contact to they can legally be in the lab and then pay them what they can find. How can our local people compete with that sort of behaviour? Plus they are very obedient so the boss can get them to do things nobody in this country would do.

  87. Kaye Lee

    Disagreement does not have to equate to social division. You and I often disagree and usually you are respectful 😉 We can never all be the same so, whilst you can’t understand how we can peacefully accomodate diversity, I ask how we can reasonably accept demands for conformity. We all must obey the law and will be punished if we don’t. Beyond that, we are free to be diverse and goodness knows, we surely are. But we are still a peaceful nation. Why spoil that?

  88. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    just because I’m a fallible human being, does not make me wrong in what I’m saying. Comprenez?

    (Have you ever met ByB by any chance?)

    Besides, I prefer to refer to my allies as sane rather than my political opponents as insane (even though they are).

    I confess to my ‘liberal’ use of “Degenerate” however.

  89. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Be careful Neil of Sydney,

    you are sounding realistic and reasonable for once.

  90. Kaye Lee

    Neil, science knows no borders.

    I remember at uni someone scrawled on the wall “knowledge isn’t private property” and someone I empathised with greatly at the time scrawled underneath “Does that mean we can stop putting footnotes on our essays”.

    Science here has benefited greatly from the knowledge and discoveries of others and has built on it. Let’s face it, we can’t all step into the role of research scientist or academic. (Just quietly, didn’t you tell me you were a cleaner at a university laboratory?)

    Just as scientists and doctors have learned that collaboration is more productive than proprietorial jealousy, we should recognise the great advantages of combining the best of all cultures.

    Do you understand how much the country gains by importing people with expertise? I do agree we need to find employment for people in this country but most of our scientists go to the States because the pay is heaps better and they spend far more on research than we do.

  91. Kaye Lee


    My “hippy dippy naivite” allows me to co-exist peacefully with those who think differently than me. I don’t feel the need to triumph over them and force them to agree with me. I ask them to be respectful and tolerant and try to be the same. You see diametrically opposed views where only one side can prevail, the other has to suck it up. I don’t feel this way. Respectful tolerance allows for us to be different. Those that oppose same sex marriage don’t have to marry a person of the same sex. They are absolutely free to continue on their merry way. Those that choose to worship some ethereal being are absolutely free to do so. We CAN accommodate diversity if we are tolerant and free to choose. We will never be able to live up to conformity and it is totally unrealistic and unreasonable and stultifying to expect us to even try.

  92. Kaye Lee

    And could I add, your assumption that I am naive will need to be backed up sunshine. What makes you think that your “reality” is something I want to embrace?

  93. Michael Taylor

    “What you just said is hippy dippy naïveté”.

    Why? Because your opinions differ, Dan?

    I think that what you have both been saying is reasonable.

  94. Kaye Lee

    Oh come on Dan. because YOU say Pure and simple doesn’t make it true or right. And for you to say that I don’t acknowledge people who don’t agree with me is utter rubbish and you know it.

    Of course we face challenges on how to handle disagreement. But it doesn’t involve one side winning. Compromise, negotiation, tolerance, respect – we can co-exist with different views. We have laws that we must all obey…after that we have opinions and beliefs that differ greatly. You see it as a struggle that necessarily involves division. I say crap. We both obey the law, you live your life and I live mine. You want to pray, ok. You want to be a vegan, ok. You want to marry someone of the same sex, ok. You want to wear a veil, ok. You want to wear make-up, ok. You don’t need my approval. You are entitled in a free society to make your own choices. I absolutely do not accept that those choices are, by definition, divisive. They only become divisive if you insist that I conform to YOUR way of thinking.

    You say it is impossible for us all to get along. I say crap. History and current reality proves you wrong. In general we get on very well in Australia.

  95. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    I like hippy philosophy actually and also endorse Kaye Lee’s thoughtful standpoint.

    However, I understand Dan is explaining the nature of diversity encompassing the character of division; otherwise we wouldn’t need to understand what diversity is because we’d all be the same.

    Despite this, I don’t accept that noticing differences automatically gives rise to social conflict even if often it might.

    The emphasis needs to be on respect and willingness to negotiate fairness and equity for everyone. Nothing else is acceptable.

  96. cornlegend

    Dan Rowden
    Good onya about 8 hours and not a mention of Hanson or Trump by anyone
    Sorry Jennifer, off topic, but I liked it

    A guy is browsing in a pet shop, and sees a parrot sitting on a little perch.

    It doesn’t have any feet or legs.

    The guy says aloud, ‘Jeesh, I wonder what happened to this parrot.?’

    The parrot says, ‘I was born this way. I’m a defective parrot.’

    ‘Holy crap,’ the guy replies. ‘You actually understood and answered me. !’

    ‘I got every word,’ says the parrot. ‘I happen to be a highly intelligent, and a thoroughly

    educated bird’

    ‘Oh yeah?’ the guy asks. ‘Then answer this, how do you hang onto your perch, without any


    ‘Well,’ the parrot says, ‘this is very embarrassing, but since you asked, I wrap my weenie

    around this wooden bar, like a little hook. You can’t see it, because of my feathers.’

    ‘Wow,’ says the guy. ‘You really can understand, and can speak English, can’t you.?’

    ‘Actually, I speak both Spanish and English, and I can converse with reasonable competence on

    almost any topic, politics, religion, sports, physics, philosophy. I’m especially good at

    ornithology. You really ought to buy me, I’d be a great companion.’

    The guy looks at the $200.00 price tag. ‘Sorry, but I just can’t afford that.’

    ‘Pssssssst,’ says the parrot, ‘I’m defective, so the truth is, nobody wants me, cause I don’t

    have any feet. You can probably get me for $20, just make the guy an offer.!’

    The guy offers $20, and walks out with the parrot.

    Weeks go by.

    The parrot is sensational.

    He has a great sense of humor, he’s interesting, he’s a great pal, he understands everything,

    he sympathizes, and he’s insightful.

    The guy is delighted.

    One day the guy comes home from work, and the parrot goes, ‘Psssssssssssst,’ and motions him

    over with one wing.

    ‘I don’t know if I should tell you this or not, but it’s about your wife, and the postman.’

    ‘What are you talking about,?’ asks the guy.

    ‘When the postman delivered a package today, your wife greeted him at the door, in a sheer

    black nightie.’

    ‘WHAT???’ the guy asks incredulously.

    ‘THEN what happened?’

    ‘Well, then the postman came into the house, and lifted up her nightie, and began petting her

    all over,’ reported the parrot.

    ‘NO!’ he exclaims, ‘and she let him.?’

    ‘Yes. Then he continued taking off the nightie, got down on his knees, and began to kiss her

    all over.’

    Then the frantic guy demands, ‘THEN WHAT HAPPENED.?’

    DUNNO?!? I got a hard-on, and fell off my perch.!’

  97. Kyran

    What a hoot this thread has become.
    “I now demand that the owners of this site come clean and tell us their true intentions!”
    Lol, Mr Taylor. In the interests of full disclosure, I am a ‘righty’. My little brother was a ‘lefty’, until the nun’s beat it out of him. He’s been mostly ambidextrous ever since. Any suggestion that he, as a lapsed (or collapsed) lefty, means he loves gays or Islam, is simply absurd. His ‘lefty-ness’ and my ‘righty-ness’ has not diminished our relationship. We both share the fact we are not gay. Our ‘relationship’s’ record is not good, so neither one of us is keen to throw stones at those who have a good relationship, regardless of their sexual proclivities. We both share the fact we are not religious, yet we both understand that another persons right to their religion is their business, and their right.
    Mr Rowden’s observation “The very notion of non-divisive diversity is breathtakingly crazy.” was well addressed by Ms Meyer-Smith “Non-divisive diversity means respectful co-existence.”
    I’ve always viewed diversity (the state of being diverse), as being constructive. We get to pick and chose the best of the many constituents of this country (and their heritage) to continually define and evolve the Australian character.
    I’ve always viewed division (difference or disagreement between two or more groups, typically producing tension), as being destructive. I have never seen anything positive borne of division’
    I’ve yet to see anything positive borne of hatred.
    Great read, Ms Chew, and commenters. Ms Granville @3.33 nailed it. “The only way to defeat these hateful people is to allow them the right of free speech, and then to demonstrate that we are all better than that.”
    “You say it is impossible for us all to get along. I say crap.” Cheers, Ms Lee.
    Take care

  98. Florence nee Fedup

    Thanks Kaye & Dan along with others. There is, can’t be any Muslim culture, no more than one can say there is a Christian culture.

    Many Muslim countries were moving to more liberated form of Muslim. Iraq being one before we went in destroying the established social order.

    One needs to look at the different nationalities that make up the Muslim world. They range from northern Africans to Asian to the Arab world. Very little in common except different sects of their religion.

    Much that is being criticised, such as female circumcision is cultural, nothing to do with the Koran.

  99. Kaye Lee

    Ask yourself this one question. Which causes more problems – diversity or insistence on conformity?

  100. Kaye Lee

    My family are anti-abortion Dan and we co-exist just fine by understanding and respecting each other. I don’t feel the need to change their views nor to embrace them. We respect each other and can accommodate different views on that and many other matters. We don’t feel the need to fight about it.

  101. Kaye Lee

    As for accommodation and acceptance of diversity causing more problems than insistence on conformity, I once again call crap and ask you to explain why you think that.

    And I would really appreciate it if you would stop telling me that I don’t understand the complexity or I will start thinking you have some sort of dick-related superiority complex.

  102. Kaye Lee

    They are as Catholic as you can be. I don’t know what you mean by actively lobby. They certainly wouldn’t be contacting politicians to talk about it but, within the family, they express their views. They would not permit it if it was their decision to make.

    I truly think that you are wrong in equating disagreement and social division. I disagree all the time with people to whom I feel very connected. If I was, without knowing you, analysing what you say I would suggest you have an aggressive streak, exacerbated by alcohol at times, that makes you always want to prove yourself right. You find it hard to soften a stance once taken, regardless of how the conversation progresses. I think you are very smart but I think your need to win an argument is a weakness that stops you from truly considering other views which perhaps explains why you think disagreement necessarily involves division.

  103. Neil of Sydney

    Do you understand how much the country gains by importing people with expertise?

    Not really. Are we too stupid?

    but most of our scientists go to the States because the pay is heaps better

    No it is not. The pay is better in Australia unless you work in private industry instead of a University in the USA. And they go to the States because they cannot find employment in Australia. One reason is the market is flooded with people from Eastern Europe and China

    and they spend far more on research than we do.

    Yes but only a few countries are wealthy enough to spend large amounts on scientific research eg Japan, USA, some Western European countries. What we lack is private industry. All our research is govt funded.

    In general immigration is good for Australia but i think unskilled immigration is the fairest way to do it. Only import Doctors, dentists, scientists if their is a shortage or they are outstanding.

  104. Kaye Lee

    I will respectfully agree to disagree.

  105. Kyran

    Curious, indeed, Mr Rowden @ 8.25. I don’t believe social division can ever be a precursor to social growth. My observation is that the vast majority of social changes are borne of social inequity, or inequality. The social changes borne of division have been bloody. The social changes borne of diversified accord have been less bloody. Just my observation.
    “Diversity necessitates division.”
    Surely not. Diversity requires cohesion, acceptance, tolerance. A seeking of the common denominator. Division requires hatred, suspicion, fear. A wilful ignorance of the common denominator.
    One of your earlier comment’s asked “Please explain it to me – without recourse to the imposition of law against their views.”
    Isn’t that the problem?
    Take care

  106. Matters Not

    without knowing you, analysing what you say I would suggest you have an aggressive streak, exacerbated by alcohol at times,

    Really? Does your assertion of an aggressive streak, exacerbated by alcohol at times come from an empirical observation or is it .. based on an accumulation of experiences inevitably rooted in your ‘meaning giving’ framework? If not, then where is the basis of what you intend as a ‘slur’?

    Perhaps it’s …

    Then again, perhaps it matters not.

  107. Matters Not

    Now this thread is getting interesting. ? ? ?

    ‘Ideas’ not individuals under discussion and all that.

    But I suspect that emphasis has no future. ?

  108. Donna

    Oh please, time to move on, its 2016 and we are all living in dangerous, confusing and violent times now.
    Anything unjust about this country, Pauline will fight for because she is passionate about this country and its future so dont attack her for defending it.
    Pauline, Sonia and others are left with no choice but to rise up and speak out! Immigration on muslims from terrorist countries are out of control here and in other westernised, civilized, peaceful nations. We have never had the violence from another immigrant nation as we do those who come from Islamic ones. It’s not racist, it’s logic, it’s not bigotry, it’s common sense! We need to stop it as those entering cannot be 100% screened to our satisfaction that they are no threat to us and our country both physically or mentally. Whilst some are genuine…not all are!
    Pauline, Sonia and thousands more are sick of not feeling safe in our own country, sick of being told what we can and cannot do or say here, sick of being forced to purchase Halal certified foods, sick of the demands for mosques in every suburb, sick of immigrant ghettos and violence from those middle eastern culture, sick of abiding by their own laws and rejecting ours, sick of the arrogance and descrimination of women of that culture and sick of disrespecting our history, traditions, culture and freedoms here in OUR country.
    This site is a joke, it’s ok to defend those who threaten the freedoms you take for granted but not ok to defend those who have the guts to stand up and do something to fight for it! Our forefather fought and died for our freedoms and to defend this nation from both foreign and domestic threats….well we are once again at war…with Islam and those who threaten the security and safety of this nation and it’s people. If you are too naive, uneducated or just a plain old political correct wimp….shut your mouth and leave the tough jobs for those with a spine. Pauline has a spine of steel, she is as loyal as you can get, she is patriotic, proud and will fight with everything she has to protect our homeland from these pests who immigrate and destroy the very essence of that country they invade. Our government is weak and does nothing so someone has to rise up and thank God some are beginning too.
    Instead of bullying and turning on her, you should be bloody Thanking her. What an immature generation some of you are.

    Resettle Pauline, an Australian born woman…wake up to yourself…how about resettle the immigrants who are ungrateful, disloyal, violent, lazy, bigamists, murderes, rapists and haters of Australia and our military servicemen/women. They don’t have to live here and we don’t have to put up with them. Now that’s progress.

    Sick of you people who think you are compassionate, empathetic human beings who want the whole world to get along, we’ll news flash…some cultures will never get along ie Jews & muslims..Christians & muslims just to start . That’s reality. Time to open your eyes and take off your rose coloured glasses because the real world is changing and if you don’t stand with those trying to hold onto our history, traditions and culture…you will be sorry you didn’t listen to those who fought to save it!

    Educate yourself on Islam and what it expects of its followers….peaceful, loving, forgiving it’s not!

  109. Matters Not

    Yes Donna, I am now really scared. ? ? ? ? ? ?

    But I hope you don’t live near me.

  110. randalstella

    What intrigued me was the claim to be respectfully agreeing to disagree. It rather went to the heart of the little debate.

    Also there is the propensity for ganging up against a poster, any poster – and, for doing so, calling each other ‘brave’, ‘wise’, and all the other weak bullshit.
    It’s cheating and it’s gutless. And obtuse.
    An argument does not need cronies. Otherwise political comment might as well be the left to the gangsters.

  111. Matters Not

    As a matters of interest, one wonders as to the ‘extent’ of the posting above.

    I suspect the name of ‘Donna’ is just a front for a well organised campaign across the social media. And perhaps elsewhere.

    Pity about the grammar, punctuation, apostrophes and other ‘technicalities’ and I won’t even go to the logic. And never mind the … take your pick. Can only laugh. And cry.

  112. Kyran

    Not sure I got your point, Mr Rowden.
    On marriage equality, the only division I have noted is a very vocal minority (ACL, IPA, LNP) using an amplifier (Newscorpse) to make an issue out of a non issue. Little johnnie changed an act of parliament (not the constitution) with a vote of parliament. The silent majority of Australian’s don’t have a problem with marriage equality. There is no need for a plebiscite, other than to fuel division. Have a look at our current government. Many of them will choose to deny the outcome of the plebiscite and vote according to their own belief’s. That’s a right they have as politicians. A right for them to ignore my vote. Don’t know why our youth don’t vote.
    The issue of civil rights for ‘Black Americans’ in America is one that is centuries old. Clearly, an ongoing issue. They have a ‘black’ president, yet their cause has not advanced. Memory test here. Malcolm X advocated change through confrontation, which exacerbated the division. Mr King advocated change through peaceful protest. Here’s the test. How many people remember Malcolm X? This bloke called Ghandhi is far more often recalled than that bloke Mountbatten.
    “Social division and conflict create change.” My point was that social division and conflict create ‘bloody’ change.
    That Ghandhi bloke, a pacifist, once advocated change.
    “You must be the change you wish to see in the world.”
    Matters Not, I’m unsure if I should laugh until I cry, or cry until I laugh. I guess it no longer matters. Take care

  113. Matters Not

    Kyran, As long as you keep thinking,

  114. Kaye Lee

    “We have never had the violence from another immigrant nation as we do those who come from Islamic ones.”

    At 30 June 2014, Australian-born prisoners accounted for four in every five prisoners in Australia (81% or 27,397 prisoners), whilst overseas-born prisoners accounted for 18% of all prisoners (6,035 prisoners).

    At 30 June 2015, 28.2% of Australia’s estimated resident population (ERP) (6.7 million people) was born overseas.

    The proportion of overseas-born prisoners was highest for prisoners with a most serious charge/offence of illicit drug offences (42% or 1,699 prisoners). The greatest number of overseas-born prisoners with a most serious offence/charge of illicit drug offences came from Vietnam

    Persons born in Sudan had the highest imprisonment rate followed by persons born in Samoa. The number of Sudanese-born and Samoan-born prisoners was 131 and 100 respectively.

    As for crime being on the increase….

    The number of victims of Homicide in Australia decreased by 2% between 2014 and 2015, falling from 421 victims to 413. This is the fourth consecutive year that the number of Homicide victims in Australia has decreased. The victimisation rate for Homicide also fell to a six-year low of 1.7 victims per 100,000 persons.

    The number of Kidnapping/abduction victims fell for the fourth consecutive year in 2015 to 523 victims – a 5% decrease compared to 2014. The victimisation rate fell to a six-year low of 2.2 victims per 100,000 victims.

    There was a 9.4% decrease in Robbery victims, from 9,893 victims in 2014 to 8,966 in 2015. The number of Robbery victims has decreased every year since 2010, and has now fallen 39% in five years. The proportional decrease of 9% was the same for both Armed robbery and Unarmed robbery.

    Even if we accept that 220 Australian Muslims have engaged in jihad or supported jihad, it follows that well over 500,000 Muslims, or 99.95 per cent, have not. Muslims are the primary victims of oppression by Muslims and the overwhelming majority of Muslims either prefer the peaceful precepts of the Koran or are not highly religious.

  115. Michael Taylor

    Kaye, I love it when you throw a few facts back at people who just make stuff up.

  116. Kaye Lee


    That is why Pauline Hanson is so dangerous. People like Donna believe the crap that comes out of her mouth and invariably then say we should “educate” ourselves. If they took one moment to fact check the drivel Hanson spouts they would discover just how ignorant she is. Pauline may be passionate about Australia but she is a populist who deliberately and unjustifiably promotes fear because that is the only way that someone like her could possibly get elected. The idea that Pauline can keep us safe is laughable. She hasn’t got one workable policy.

    First go around she demonised Aborigines who apparently “eat their babies”, then she moved onto the Asian invasion, then she told us Africans all have diseases and we would all get AIDS, and now it’s the Muslims turn to endure her hateful prejudice.

  117. Jack Straw

    Can we send Neil of Sydney with Pauline.

  118. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    is the type of Hanson follower I want the Greens, Labor and sane true Progressives (not the fake variety like Hanson) to target and who are being swept up by the Hanson mantra that falsely says only she has the answers to save Australia.

    Cunningly, Hanson has witnessed how Australia’s positive diversity has allowed dissenting voices of criticism to be heard in a range of places whether it be reluctance against accepting burqas and niqabs in community places, or accepting the arrogant refusal of angry, accused young men to stand in court as a time-honoured courtesy to the judge when s/he enters to deliver a verdict under Australian law.

    Unfortunately Hanson is a dangerous person to have this complex knowledge because the critics of such contraversial behaviours are not necessarily bigots because their criticisms are motivated by pride of gender or pride of Australian customs.

    It is this pride that has been hijacked by Hanson and cunning bigots and many ordinary, decent people are fooled by them or mischaracterised by Hanson opponents.

    It is a tricky thing to disentangle the motivations and characters of this murky mess but it will be a mistake to just dismiss Donna as a belligerent fool.

    Donna needs to be encouraged to believe that there are many of us involved in all walks of life working for socio-economic reforms that will help the 99%.

    I have never heard Hanson say she’ll work for the 99%. What do you say about that, Donna?

  119. Kaye Lee

    Even worse that her xenophobia, is her climate change denial.

    Climate change has and will continue to be used as a political agenda by politicians and self interest groups or individuals for their own gain. We cannot allow scare mongering by people such as Tim Flannery, who make outlandish statements and are not held accountable. Climate change should not be about making money for a lot of people and giving scientists money.

    The irony of that paragraph is shown by some editing….

    Xenophobia has and will continue to be used as a political agenda by politicians and self interest groups or individuals for their own gain. We cannot allow scare mongering by people such as Pauline Hanson, who make outlandish statements and are not held accountable. Bigotry should not be about making money for a lot of people and giving politicians money.

    Pauline wants to “Hold a Royal Commission (or similar) into the corruption of climate science and identify whether any individual or organisation has misled government to effect climate and energy policy.” Well gee willikers Pauline, that could see YOU in a shit load of trouble if you continue to spout your ill-informed and very unscientific ramblings.

    Imagine having Pauline decide on school curriculum. She wants to “Remove from the education system the teaching of a biased and one-sided view of climate science. Teaching of climate science will begin in secondary school and will be based on the scientific method of scepticism”

    “The wind industry must compensate all residents who have been proven to suffer from Wind Turbine Syndrome and any residents where the presence of wind turbines have negatively effected the price of their home.”

    At least that ridiculous promise won’t cost anything because you can’t prove something that doesn’t exist.

    “Under Lib-Lab the UN has been given unconstitutional power over our country. The UN controls much of our marine area and indirectly controls more through regulations made under Agenda 21, now renamed Agenda 2030.

    Letters from CSIRO and BOM heads contain no evidence that carbon dioxide affects climate. No CSIRO, BOM or UN reports contain evidence of human cause.”

    Backing away slowly…..

  120. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Spot on information, Kaye, exposing how lacking in integrity Hanson is on a wide range of important aspects of our lives.

    I want to know what she’s going to do about bank nationalisation and upending the Lib/Lab predilection for a regressive neoliberal socio-economic system?

    Also Donna, please explain what Hanson says about Modern Monetary Theory.

  121. Kaye Lee

    Their economics policy is a doozy JMS.

    “We will bring back federalism and restore Australia’s constitution so that our economy is run for the benefit of Australians instead of the UN and unaccountable foreign bodies that have interfered and have choked our economy since the federal government handed power to the International Monetary Fund in 1944.

    We will:
    Bring back rule of law in Australia and stop the UN driving legislation currently controlling Australians and our country’s assets. This will bring back freedom from regulations implemented under the UN’s Rio Declaration for global governance that was adopted in 1992 by the Keating Labor government and that Liberal-Labor-Nationals-Greens continue to implement.

    Abandon United Nations policies and treaties that hurt our cost of living in Australia and instead bring back Treasury independence from the International Monetary Fund and other private foreign bodies controlling Australian economic, tax and financial policy since 1944. We need to exit the UN.

    Protect Australian laws and values through preventing sharia law and other religious laws.

    Investigate 7,000 foreign treaties and commitments signed by Liberal-Labor-Nationals governments with a view to revoking all but those beneficial to Australia and Australians.”

  122. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    While I would want a multi-party, multi-community agency, multi-stakeholder grassroots people representation at the table when Australia’s economic system is given a total cleansing of filthy neoliberalism (and that might encompass some of One Nation’s focus), I don’t want Australia leaving the UN or UN safeguards.

  123. Kaye Lee

    I would much prefer experts to decide on our economic policy than any “grass roots” conglomeration. Economics is not for amateurs.

    Looking through the One Nation policies, it seems Malcolm Roberts must have written pretty much all of them and incorporated every whacko conspiracy theory you can think of.

  124. Terry2

    I see the likes of George Christensen as a much bigger threat than Pauline Hanson.

    Hanson is outside the tent and carries little influence in the parliament but Christensen is inside the tent and together with the Abbott stooges is a far greater threat to our democracy.

  125. randalstella

    Terror and the Unions.
    That seems to be the obvious menu for the Government’s revival, and tenure.

  126. Kaye Lee

    I shudder to think what the next election campaign will be like. Christensen seems determined to raise his profile and he doesn’t care if what he says is factual or not. He and Hanson will be competing for the same spotlight. It’s gonna get ugly unless our security agencies can shut them up. Muslim baiting makes their job immeasurably harder.

  127. Michael Taylor

    It was telling that Turnbull referenced Orlando and Nice. It was never determined that they were acts of terrorism, rather, acts from two crazed individuals. But let’s just say they were typical terrorist’s acts shall we, Malcolm. Whatever works best for you.

  128. Kaye Lee

    Same as Munich Michael. The gunman had spent two months as an inpatient at a mental care facility in 2015 and was afterwards treated as an outpatient.
    “The suspect had fears of contact with others” and also depression, Thomas Steinkraus-Koch said. However, there was no evidence of any political motivation.

  129. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Kaye @ 10.53am,

    when I say community groups and grassroots stakeholders to be at the table, I mean community consultations where ordinary people get the opportunity to put their anecdotal evidence and viewpoints on how the economy must work for them. I also mean important advocacy organisations like ACOSS and other such groups to balance out any business representatives. Then you can sort the wheat from the chaff.

  130. Kaye Lee

    I would be happy to have ACOSS at the table. Not so sure about individual anecdotal evidence. Unions and charities could also be useful representatives. I would leave big business out entirely. Set the rules that are best for our society and then let business determine their best business model to comply.

  131. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Having Community voices at the table is always an imperative.

    Just coz Pauline has attained a slight foothold in the senate for 5 minutes, that is no good reason to deny a more representative body of grassroots people from having a direct voice in policy building, implementation and enforcement..

  132. Kaye Lee

    I disagree JMS. We need experts, not people off the street. The ignorance of people about the processes involved and what is actually achievable and how to go about it astonishes me. By all means have representative bodies, who actually know what they are talking about. But people off the street? No thanks. That’s how we end up with people like Hanson who don’t have a bloody clue what they are talking about.

  133. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Of course Kaye, the experts will be the decision makers but ordinary people must be part of the consultation process in community forums, so that the experts design the policies to address the needs of the ordinary people.

  134. Norm Vanderfeen

    I don’t agree with what Hanson says but I’m not ‘triggered’ by it. To me it’s part of free speech in a tolerant society. Things like the attacks of Kevin Andrew’s conservative Christians last year and the campaigns to deny visas to free thinkers like David Icke are more dangerous to me than what they have to say.

    The politicians in the LibLab coalition joined the ‘willing’ to slaughter innocent Muslims in the Middle East. The refugees from this slaughter are then dumped in tropical hell holes to rot. These politicians then want people to label Pauline Hanson as the dangerous racist. They go out of their way to smear Hanson as racist because she is a Nationalist not a Globalist.

    Marine Le Pen in France was smeared as a far right racist because she was a Nationalist not a Globalist. It turns out she was a prophet and now tipped to be the next President of France.

    Australians might have a feel good moment attacking Hanson, Kruger et al. but the rest of the world regards Australia as one of the most racist countries for their treatment of the indigenous peoples and refugees. I agree with the rest of the world.

  135. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Well said,Norm.

  136. Kaye Lee

    “free thinkers like David Icke”

    A former footballer and sports broadcaster, Icke has made his name since the 1990s as a professional conspiracy theorist, calling himself a “full time investigator into who and what is really controlling the world.”

    At the heart of his theories lies the idea that many prominent figures belong to the Babylonian Brotherhood, a group of shapeshifting reptilian humanoids who are propelling humanity toward a global fascist state, or New World Order. The reptilians use the rings of Saturn and the Moon, all reptilian constructs, to broadcast our “five-sense prison”: an “artificial sense of self and the world” that humans perceive as reality.

    Backing away slowly……

  137. Carl Young

    Kaye: Icke has some other sound theories. I wouldn’t write him off altogether .

  138. Kaye Lee

    Sorry Carl,

    I cannot give that lunatic any credence whatsoever. A psychic told him, in 1990, that he had been placed on Earth for a purpose and would begin to receive messages from the spirit world. The following year he announced that he was a “Son of the Godhead”, and that the world would soon be devastated by tidal waves and earthquakes.

    In my opinion he is riding the gravy train of whackoland just like Jo Nova and Christopher Monckton and and all the others who like to make money from talking crap.

  139. Carl Young

    Kaye if you were trapped on desert island with one other who would you prefer to be with? Kevin Rudd, Malcolm Turnball or David Icke ? or John Howard?

  140. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    That doesn’t sound like much of a choice, Carl.

  141. Carl Young

    Unfortunately they are today’s candidates for my hypothetical. Who knows Tomorrow it could be George Clooney? It is noted that Kaye has failed so far to answer this very important question so far?

  142. Michael Taylor

    “It is noted that Kaye has failed so far to answer this very important question so far?”

    Has it occurred to you that Kaye doesn’t have to drop everything to answer your question?

  143. Kaye Lee

    Sorry Carl. My husband got home from work and I chose to have a chat with him rather than monitor comments. If I was trapped on a desert island with any of those people I would rely on my own survival skills as I don’t think any of your proffered choices would be able to contribute anything practical. David Icke would be my last choice because I have an aversion to people who seek to manipulate others and make profit for themselves from lunatic fantasies.

  144. Michael Taylor

    I didn’t know much of David Icke so I listened to an interview with him about Brexit. It was hard to cope with as he continually talked down to the interviewer to the point of it being embarassing. I finally switched off when he started to claim that the Royal family are reptilians from another planet.

    As much as I despise the Royal family and as much as I believe in life on other planets (and that they have visited us), I hardly think that the queen is reptilian. He can’t be serious, surely. But he was.

    He should stick to his 9/11 theories.

  145. Carl Young

    Michael LOL Don’t loose your sense of humour. Maybe you already have. It was very tongue in cheek. Thank you Kaye

    Stay tuned for the next Hypothetical !

  146. Michael Taylor

    Kaye, would you like to be trapped on a deserted island with your husband? ?

  147. Michael Taylor

    As much as I think Icke is a crackpot, I think it was wrong of the Feferal Government to originally deny him a visa to come to Australia.

  148. Kaye Lee

    LOLOLOL I just showed my husband this exchange and he chose John Howard because they could play beach cricket and hubby would win.

    And yes, I would be happy to spend the rest of my days with hubby on an island somewhere if I could have my computer with me.

  149. Michael Taylor

    Carl, I need a sense of humour. ?

  150. Carl Young

    No worries Michael Can I ask you who would you choose out of those 4 . I would have supplied some woman for you; though due to your insubordination you will have choose from the current chosen 4. Remember this is very important .

  151. Michael Taylor

    OK Carl, just to amuse you I will answer your question. I have worked for both Howard and Rudd so it will be one of those two. With Howard I could talk cricket but I just couldn’t stand anything else, so it would be Rudd. He’s quite an intelligent fellow, and I like intelligent people.

    Icke could be interesting but I don’t like being talked down to and I don’t like people talking crap, of which I’m sure there would be a lot. So when I say “interesting”, it would probably only be 5% of the time. And I doubt I’d get a word in.

    If it was Turnbull I fear I’d be doing all the work as well as put forward the ideas of getting us rescued. And when we were finally rescued I’d have the humiliation of listening to him brag that it was his ingenuity and efforts that saved us.

  152. Carl Young

    Interesting choice Mike.

    Ill provide some more interesting people in next weeks Hypothetical and by for now!!

  153. Norm Vanderfeen

    @Kaye Lee good answer about John Howard 🙂 your husband would have to be up close with the bat.

    I agree Icke is outrageous that was my point. I watched something on him the other night and picked up the idea that “intelligence without wisdom is an existential threat”. It’s seems to me with Nuclear Weapons and GMO’s etc he isn’t entirely wrong.

  154. Norm Vanderfeen

    Free speech and tolerance are being eroded. Polls show 50% of University students in the US want the Government to protect them from words they don’t want to hear. There is a fightback starting from people like Milo Yiannopoulos and Christina Hoff Sommers.

    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. – Aristotle.

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