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Day to Day Politics: I told you so.

Sunday 3 July 2016

I said yesterday that I believed that scandal after political scandal had at last woken us from our apathy.

That we were angry and we were ready to take it out on some one. I said people were disgusted with Turnbull’s caving into the ratbags on the right of his party. That his hypocritical leadership on gay marriage, the NBN and the environment must play on the minds of the voters as must the appalling performance of his government.

I went on to say that ongoing banking scandals, political donations and ministerial deceit surely will not escape the public’s attention. So too his repetitive cave-ins on tax reform. The fact that they are split on so many issues must also come into play.

I concluded that voters were primed to take to someone with weapons of mass destruction. It might as well be the government. So don’t be surprised.

It’s not a boast but I had read the mood of the Australian people perfectly.

Although the result will not be known for some time yet one thing is absolutely certain. As a nation Australia lost. As things stand and if the election night final figures stand up then we would probably have a hung parliament. The likely outcome however, is that the Coalition will win one or two of these seats and form government.

Australia lost. The government will have a leader without a mandate to do anything. His policies will have been, as will his leadership, comprehensively rejected. The public saw through his hypocrisy and told him so.

With the probable make up of the senate his life will be made unbearable, or should I say ungovernable.

He will even lose the ABCC Double Dissolution on which he called the election. The right-wing conservative media led by Andrew Bolt are calling for his head. Cory Bernardi’s voice is getting louder.

Australia has lost three years of governance and now we are about to lose another three. Rather than governance we will have a divided party with rampant right-wing nutters fighting moderates for control of the party and a leader willing to compromise with anyone to keep his job

Australia lost. The good governance we so need will elude us in the fight for ideological supremacy within the Coalition. The Nationals intent dislike and mistrust of Turnbull will come to the fore and make his life even more miserable. His polices, or lack thereof will continue and his innovation talk be shattered. He may not even last until Christmas.

The public have said that health, education, a decent NBN and inequality among other things do matter. That economics has to be married to the broader social political agenda.

I was right when I said:

“We are angry and we want to take it out on some one. How dare they treat us like this? F*ck the polls. We don’t give a shit about the rights and wrongs, we just want to be treated with some respect.”

People don’t care who the voice is they just want someone to speak for them be it Hinch, Hanson or whoever. Australia lost. We are now likely to have a more bizarre bunch of Senate cross benches than the previous weird lot. If that’s possible. They will now need even more cross bench Senators to get legislation passed.

For some time I have been saying that in the absence of charisma Bill Shorten could only win with sound well thought out policies. He hasn’t won but he put in a remarkable effort. I was right again. It must be said that he performed admirably and one would have to conclude that his job is safer than Turnbull’s.

A word on the so-called “Mediscare”. Scare campaigns are usually based on an absence of substantive truth. In this case there was constructive evidence that they were fiddling with the policy to the point where there was a clear assumption where it might end up completely different to the Medibank people knew and understood. That is not a scare campaign but rather informing people of something that might happen based on the evidence of past actions.

In his election night speech Turnbull displayed all the characteristics of a sore loser blaming everyone else but himself. He spent more time talking about his opponent than himself. He showed no grace and never came near to the leader the public had once thought he was.

Australia lost. In summary we have a situation where we will go through a period of uncertainty. The Coalition will most likely win. There are gathering storms ahead both internally and externally. We will have a lame duck leader, leading a lame duck government being told what the can and can’t do by a lame duck Senate.

Australia lost. It was as I predicted a protest vote that will bring about instability. Our adversarial political system will continue with the government spending more time on the retention of power than governing for the common good.

An observation

“It is the misinformed who shout the loudest. The rest of us are content with the truth we enquired about”.

Of course Shorten could govern in his own right if by some miracle he won all the remaining 19 seats but I’m not prepared to go that far.

My thought for the day.

A message for Malcolm. Australia lost.

“Power is a malevolent possession when you are prepared to forgo your principles and your country’s wellbeing for the sake of it”.


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  1. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    With respect, John Lord, I don’t agree.

    Australia won because it trashed the LNP and gave Australians a chance of an alternative parliament that will proportionately represent the people’s wishes.

    If we don’t want the RWNJ’s to take control under the leadership of Pauline Hanson and her ilk, then Labor has a chance to invite the Greens into the tent, along with a selection of other sane left and centre members and form a proportionately representative government, if it gets the chance when the last votes are counted. The same applies in 3 years time, even if the LNP Degenerates limp across the line.

    Labor stalwarts must prepare the tent now and once the ALLiance starts, it gives Australia a chance to move in the opposite direction of neoliberalism and back to the fairer, kinder Australia we were taught to believe in by Gough.

  2. Freethinker

    I agree with you John, there are no winners.
    Regarding instability with the continuation of the extreme right in the coalition, One Nation and LDP elected senators I am worry that the instability will be social as well creating divisions in many issues.
    Racist groups and those against marriage right can use this opportunity to create unpleasant movements.
    This instability IMO is more worry that the economical .

  3. 1petermcc

    I’d like to have a bob each way. If the Liberal party stops looking inwards and learns to fear the Voters, we have a chance to teach them about Democracy. Representation needs to factor in ordinary Voters. Going by Malcolm’s performance this morning it looks like he’s pissed at the Voters and at Labor, and feels it’s not his fault.

    Sure the blame game is fun and core Liberal philosophy, but it’s time to move on and embrace accountability. If they do this, Australia wins. If they don’t? Well I’m sure scapegoats can be found but they need to have a “good hard look at themselves” to use the footy parlance.

    Surprisingly they didn’t put the boot into Tony for the crazy stuff that got bogged in the Senate and somehow imagined they would not be held accountable .

  4. Carol Taylor

    The only mandate any government ever has is the floor of the chambers of both Houses of Parliament. If you cannot formulate adequate legislation to pass both houses, you do not have a mandate..irrespective of how much bleating and complaining that you might do about having one.

  5. diannaart

    Australia did not lose – it dodged a bullet.

    Imagine if the LNP had won enough seats to claim a mandate, if you dare…

    In fact, if Turnbull can pull together a minority government, I am betting he will claim he still has mandate for all the anti-human-Abbott-policies he promoted. The far-right is better at lying to themselves than anyone else. Turnbull has already tried to shift blame to Labor – again.

    Yes, we have lost 3 years, but we also have another 3 years to build a strong collaboration or progressives, 3 years in which to prove the lie of LNP policies, if we dare…

  6. stephentardrew

    I feel this is just the beginning. The L-NP are still on life support as the over sixties snuff it and younger voters turn to progressivism. Disappointing to a degree however the environment and economic stagnation are bound to continue as the L-NP thrash about in their death throws. The US and Europe are on the move and it ain’t pretty. One more global financial crisis and all hell will break loose. All indicators are it will happen in the next two years. Let’s hope we can survive and recover in time to prevent the worst of inequality and environmental degradation. We are at three minutes to midnight on so many levels it is frightening. Whatever happens it is going to be a blood bath for some. In truth our citizens have left it too long and impending disruption and suffering is inevitable. Time to select out conservatism, entrenched inequality and corporate financial oligopoly for good. The longer it takes the more suffering for the masses.

  7. deanyz1

    “We are angry and we want to take it out on some one. How dare they treat us like this? Stuff the polls. We don’t give a shit about the rights and wrongs, we just want to be treated with some respect.” – John Lord (In regard to voter’s unrest).
    Tony Abbott, AKA Julias Caesar, knifed by the assassin Turncoat, has held the public of Australia in high disregard. We are sick of broken promises and we want and need stability in government, denied to us for the last 3 years with another 3 years of instability pending. Our political representatives have been bought by BigCorp and they value their positions of power over fair-mindedness and the common wealth and common good of Australia. Psychopaths. We need Leaders, not impotent PM’s like Turncoat.

  8. wam

    Dear lord, what a delicious meal is humble pie! Enak sekali, Shorten/Labor baik baik bagus.
    Turnball churlish?
    Bolt fully flatulent?
    the rabbott amoral?
    Still the PM can take comfort because erica assumes turncoat has the numbers.
    Once again lord you were and are the man!!!!
    ps your thought appllies so perfectly for roy the boy and dilubran.

  9. Mark

    Are you saying that the 6 years before Abbott were stable deanyz1. Dont you remember the Rudd / Gillard / Rudd fiasco. The reason the Senate has such a high number of independents is exactly because the major parties wont listen to its members and this is the only way to get back at them. The Greens are never going to be in power so that only leaves Libs and Labor at the moment.

  10. Wun Farlung

    Are you talking about negotiating from a minority Government position the record amount of Legislation passed-fiasco
    The (using the small change left from the 10 year vote buying of Howard/Costello) saving the Australian economy from recession-fiasco
    Introduction of National Disability Insurance scheme-fiasco
    Lots of other fiasco that the LNP in concert with MSM had the mug punters believe but in reality didn’t exist

  11. paul walter

    Mark, Labor represented relative sanity compared to what followed.

    At least there was still some attempt at policy, something a little better than austerity as a means for dealing with the bankers greedy stuff ups that gave the world the Meltdown. And what is austerity really about?

    Dumbing down.

  12. paul walter

    I think we dodged a bullet. Somehow the refugee issue and what goes on between Labor and the Greens has to be finally short circuited.

  13. Möbius Ecko

    Friggin’ Abbott spruiking the results as terrible for his party and for the country. He also went on to equivocate a disaster for the country to the loss of seats for Liberal comrades.

    What the hell is it with the Liberals that they’re so full of themselves. A disaster for the country, really?

  14. king1394

    In the face of the likely economic chaos that could eventuate due to the combination of the UK leaving Europe, and other turmoil related to the US Presidential election scheduled for November 8th, plus the effects of what budget measures Turnbull can manage to emplace, I am almost glad to see the Liberals returned. They so often seem to get voted out before a major crisis which they then make out is the fault of the ALP, and which they would handle better if only they were in charge. No doubt it won’t be pretty, and the ordinary Australian will probably suffer, but at last there will be no possibility of saying things are Labor’s fault over the next few years.

  15. Freethinker

    I agree with you king1394, it happens to Gough, Keating, Julia and now if the ALP form government can happen to Bill.
    Let the coalition suffer and in 2 years or 2 consecutive budgets we will have another election.

  16. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Stop talking like defeatists.

    We need to get Australia back on its feet now. We have no time to lose.

    People’s lives are being wrecked by homelessness, joblessness, social exclusion, not to mention the vulnerability of the environment and action on climate change.

  17. Carol Taylor

    Jennifer, I agree. We have entered the perfect storm with housing unaffordability, increasing mortgage stress, wages remain flat except for the elite executive much so that we have even well regarded economists suggestion as a ‘solution’ The Bank of Mum & Dad who btw are struggling to fund their own retirements, or maybe buy your baby an investment property so they won’t be living with you until they’re 40! That is, ridiculous, grasping at straws non-solutions.

    This might not seem a great deal now, but add to this $100,000 university degrees, further casualisation of the workforce, crackdowns on ‘bludgers’ (unemployed, disability and old age pensioners), then we are looking at an extraordinarily downtrodden future for what once used to be known as middle class working people.

    This is before we even start to discuss natural disasters such as ocean incursions, the decimation of our fish stock via inundation of mangrove breeding grounds…and etc….

    Give the LNP another 3 years, already the worst do-nothing government in history? Australia cannot afford it.

  18. Neil of Sydney

    A disaster for the country, really?

    Yep ALP policies do not work. In a burst of morality the ALP dismantled the Pacific Solution. Look what happened? 50,000 boat arrivals, thousands of acts of self harm in detention centers. I estimate something like $15B-$20B housing all these people on a problem that John Howard solved and you lefties restarted. Only 6 boat people were in detention in 2007 most probably because they could not get a security clearance.

    We stop the boats and take our refugees from UNHCR camps.

    Not once did Labor or you people apologise for all the trouble you caused. Instead of admitting you were wrong Rudd/Gillard tried everything except the Pacific Solution which works. Never once did you people admit you were wrong.

  19. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    we were and are not wrong in comparison to the LNP criminals who have allowed their business mates to profit on the despair of the MOST vulnerable people on this earth.

    You say we take people out of the UNHCR camps. Have you ever visited such a camp? Have you ever advocated or attempted to sponsor somebody out of such places where all the boxes are not ticked simply because paperwork is not in order?

    Shutup Neil and grieve silently for the loss of your ugly, nasty LNP regime that has bitten the bitter dust. I hope they gag into eternity.

  20. Freethinker

    Neil, the most serious disaster is the amount of reelected extreme right bigots and in same cases fascists in the Liberal party. If we add to them Pauline then we bring the bar lower regarding in the moral and intelligence in some of the electorate that identifying with them.

    You identifying with them when you said, quote: We stop the boats and take our refugees from UNHCR camps. end of quote
    Well Neil those idols of you have been refereed to the International Crime Court, the same court that when those dictators, politicians and military personnel that have made crime against humanity.

    I can see what are your values now……

  21. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Oh dear, now that I’ve responded to Neil, I’ll be accused by Labor neoliberal stalwarts that his comment and mine will cancel each other out!

    Damned if you do and damned if you don’t!


  22. Michael Taylor

    Oh FFS Neil. We’ve had the most dramatic election any of us can recall – the result of which we still don’t know – and you want to talk about the same shit you’ve been talking about ever since you come here. Rudd, Gillard, Labor.

    This post is not about that. Please do not turn this, or any other post, into the same old same old childish crap you repeatedly post here.

    Any further comments of yours that repeat this crap will be immediately deleted. Now go off and cry to everybody that Michael Taylor deletes your comments.

    And to those people who want to jump in and say that I’m ‘censoring’ – and they do it all the time I delete Neil’s comments – you’ll just have to live with it.

  23. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Good on you, Michael.

    Some people refuse to learn.

  24. cornlegend

    I thought you had the Meyer Smith Coalition team signed up !!!!
    Andrew Wilkie is adamant he will “do no deals” to help the Coalition or Labor form government
    Cathy Mcgowan said the same
    What have you been doing, not keeping your ducks in a row 😀

  25. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    cornlegend or is it Bighead, or Backyard Bob or whoever you are,

    Did I ever say I had ducks in the row?

    I’m trying to win hearts and minds for a better, inclusive socio-economic-political landscape for ALL of us.

    Yes, I agree it sounds lame. Just like being out in the bitter cold ALL day yesterday from dark to dark – and many other days handing out democratic htv’s to voters for the Greens, Labor and the Australian Progressives.

    Leave Wilkie and McGowan alone. They’ve proved their individual worth.

    YOU and Labor need to work on building bridges with the Greens and other unaligned left/centre possibilities.

  26. Freethinker

    Jennifer, have you the chance to see the votes count in the senate of all the small progressive parties?
    IMO they have to merge before the next election and they will have the chance to have one of more senators.

  27. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    I’ve had some looks @ AEC website updates. I will investigate and take on board your thoughts.

  28. Carol Taylor

    On the subject of Brandis calling in the cops over the faux Medicare emails, I wonder if the Libs have forgotten their own faux website set up to make it appear that it was the CFA asking for support? The only identification being in wee, tiny writing – an address – which turned out to be Liberal Party Headquarters (Victoria Division). Brandis mentioned deceptive conduct. I would argue that the false CFA website was equally as deceptive.

  29. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Labor needs to report that to the AEC and AFP, Carol.

    Standing at the barricades yesterday, your point was brought to crystal clear importance. My Labor comrade was advocating support for Medicare while our Liberal opponent got his nose in a twist coz he didn’t like the reference to Medicare without being able to exploit the CFA debacle in state-based Victorian politics.

    It was confronting and guess who advocated sensibly and equitably between the two demarcation positions?

    It was my Greens comrade handing out htv’s on the barricades too.

    She calmed down the LNP man while I spoke with the Labor woman.

    Greens are peacemakers and changemakers.

  30. cornlegend

    Jennifer Meyer-SmithJuly 3, 2016 at 7:30 pm

    “cornlegend or is it Bighead, or Backyard Bob or whoever you are,”
    Whats this bullshit?
    You know full well I wrote it !
    Your coalition is falling around your ankles .
    It ISN’T a way to get your Greens some power, so give up on it

  31. cornlegend

    Jennifer, the Greens in Whitlam were bloody Labor corflute thieves, witnessed by a local.
    Dumb shits, they used the same wire that held up the ALP ones to put Greens ones in the exact spot
    Didn’t help though they got 8%

  32. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Actually cornlegend.

    being the believing person that I am, graciously I didn’t decide that Bighead’s comments could match your better intellect.

    If you’re going to play alter egos, get it right.

    Where’s poor, sad, belligerent Backyard Bob gone? Bitten the dust too?

    My ALLiance will live on but your alter egos won’t!

  33. cornlegend

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith
    Wha t are you waffling about ?
    Michael cleared this up for some other clown.I’m in NSW, Bighead 1883 is in W.A. as for BYB, ask Michael to email him and ask where he is, he has his email and IP How th F**k would I know where he is?
    I suggest you take your meds early tonight
    this shit has been sorted “but your alter egos won’t”
    All bulshit, proven by AIMN, pay attention !

  34. Pappinbarra Foc

    That Neil chap really got his facts wrong. Does he do that often? In respect of “the Pacific Solution” John Howard seduced Sir Makere Morauta with $20 million to abrogate the Papua New Guinea Constitution, which prohibits incarceration without conviction by a duly constituted Court for a written crime. Manus island ceased operating well before 2007. Kevin reinstated it in 2013, not Mr Abbott.
    I hope young Neil checks his facts before he comments again. Otherwise I might conclude he is just making stuff up. And he wouldn’t do that unless he is a trolling liar.

  35. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    despite my accusation of calling you a liar until proven innocent ,you have NO right to say this, “I suggest you take your meds early tonight”.

    Playing that game will reap different results for you amongst people who might otherwise think you and your cause are 1/2 decent.

    FULL decent is the goal, cornlegend!

  36. cornlegend

    “despite my accusation of calling you a liar ”
    after that, with me, you have no right !

  37. Athena

    “That Neil chap really got his facts wrong. Does he do that often?”

    Bwahahaha! Is the Pope Catholic?

  38. keerti

    I just found turnpukes election night speech, he appears like a cardboardcut out , 2 dimensional little boy saying “it’s not fair! I told you to vote for me and you didn’t, whah! whah! Now you’re all going to be sorry!'” He stopped short of saying that he was going to go and tell his Mummy. Why is it that the lieberal party has a lot of upset little boy’s parading as entitled, selfish, know it alls? Is it a club for loosers? A party for refugees from the nuttach? And then there’s pauline and the severely loonie party. Maybe malcolm could form an alliance with pauline to get legislation through the senate. No! what a terrible thought. pauline in bed with malcolm! They’d have a bunch of smarmy, bullshitting, redheaded matchsticks…sorry, I meant babies. Could we have psychological testing for candidacy, please!

  39. Neil of Sydney

    Oh FFS Neil. We’ve had the most dramatic election any of us can recall – the result of which we still don’t know – and you want to talk about the same shit you’ve been talking about ever since you come here. Rudd, Gillard, Labor.

    Well i was responding to this comment by Mobius

    What the hell is it with the Liberals that they’re so full of themselves. A disaster for the country, really?

    I could say you people have forgotten what a disaster the R/G/R govt was but i suspect you actually think it was a good govt and not a disaster which it was. I just listed one of the many disasters.

    By the way on the radio this morning it was mentioned that Standard and Poors is most probably going to downgrade our credit rating (now AAA but not for long) unless were start running surplus budgets.

  40. Bighead1883

    cornlegend July 3, 2016 at 9:57 pm

    Firstly,excellent article as per usual John Lord

    Every publication has a live in troll in the comments section Cornie

    They are experts in every topic

    They jump from article to article at the speed of publication

    They are judgemental and acrasial when challenged about their own behaviour

    They discombobulate the simplest statement into theatrics

    AIMN is no different as the live in troll dispenses either praise,vitriol or unasked for advice

  41. diannaart

    A downgrade of the AAA rating has happened before and the sky did not fall in.

    We have more pressing issues to face; homelessness, impossibly high rents, losing time for action on climate change, affordable university, public schools funding eroded in preference to private, privatisation of our health system, no investment into sustainable technology, welfare safety net has more holes since 2013 (and 2007 – cuts to single parents appalling, Newstart has not been adjusted in years), the lack of separation of church and state, no investigation into finance industry rorts & tax avoidance by wealthy & big business… and I haven’t even had my morning cuppa yet.

    Given the fact of the above mentioned I don’t see Australia of deserving of a triple A rating – surely such a rating needs to be based upon equity of its citizens rather than economists’ wet-dream?

  42. 2353

    The LNP have a choice as a result of this election. They can come back to the centre (as most of the movement in the votes was to the ‘progressive’ side of the ledger) or they can let the Bernardis, Morrisons and so on take they further to the conservative side and inside the next 20 years they will be as irrelevant as the Hansons and so on (who will be an absolute pain in the Senate).

    As for the media meme that is developing that Australia will be ungovernable – it’s sheer unmitigated crap. Whoever does get the numbers to form a Government will have to accept that Parliament is the place where ideas for a better Australia are discussed – and the better ideas don’t necessarily come out of your party convention. Sure it’ll take more time but at the end of the day the legislation will probably be better for it (as well as demonstrating the line that Australia *needs* a majority Government is nowhere near the truth).

  43. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Hear, hear diannaart. You are a voice of reason.

  44. cornlegend

    After the little tirade that has already been found to be false by Michael Taylor re you and me being the same entity, and even BYB thrown in, That commenter has lost any chance of respect or civility from me. I don’t take kindly to that lying muckraking even after the allegations made by that commenter have been found to have no substance.
    You will see a different attitude from me from now on towards that commenter !

  45. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Hear, hear 2353,

    a minority government is the best way to force the best practices and legislation. Parliamentarians are kept on their toes and made to be more accountable to the Australian constituents even if they are not part of their own parties.

  46. jantonius

    Well, someone lied about a preference deal by the Greens with the Libs
    Someone did it very often. Someone could not have forgotten what they did, could they?
    It was a campaign.
    Was it a clean campaign?

    Are Labor now in the course of being competitive and even winning seats on Greens preferences?

  47. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Good observations, jantonius.

  48. Bacchus

    “A downgrade of the AAA rating has happened before and the sky did not fall in.”

    Actually it would be instructive if we could look at interest rates and our ratings agency ratings graphically. I’d guess there would be no correlation.

    Look at Japan – ratings agency changes have absolutely no effect on their interest rates or policies. The Japanese government simply ignores them – I reckon we should too.

    As always, Bill Mitchell says it better than most!

  49. Neil of Sydney

    Look at Japan – ratings agency changes have absolutely no effect on their interest rates or policies. The Japanese government simply ignores them – I reckon we should too.

    I think you are showing some stupidity there Bacchus. Most Western Nations unlike us can obtain the bulk of their borrowed money from their own people/companies.

    We however have to get the bulk of our money from kind overseas lenders. That is why our interest rates have to be higher than most other nations. Nobody would lend us any money if we drop our rates below other countries.

  50. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Read Bill Mitchell’s Modern Monetary Theory, NoS, and learn about macro economics. Australia has its own sovereign currency. We don’t need to borrow from anyone.

  51. Bacchus

    Perhaps you should learn the very basics of how we “borrow” money Neil.

    Do you think we co cap in hand to the Bank of China asking for a mortgage?

  52. Neil of Sydney

    I guess we borrow money from overseas investors. If we drop our interest rates nobody will lend us any money. How do we then fund our deficits? Print money?

  53. Bacchus

    Don’t “guess” – go and find out for yourself!

    You’ll answer your own questions and actually learn something for the first time since at least 2007!

  54. Tony

    Neil your mates almost tripled the deficit in 3 years .

  55. diannaart

    I don’t have to guess that NoS is avoiding the issue of tax avoidance.

    Instead he is trying to shift the debate onto borrowing – a topic he knows even less about than… words fail… NoS doesn’t exactly have a broad and nuanced knowledge of anything outside of “DIssing Labor For Dummies”

  56. Freethinker

    Neil, do some search within this site and you will learn something about macroeconomics.

  57. totaram

    Bacchus: NoS is not interested in learning anything. He has a few standard talking points and repeats them ad nauseum, even after people have pointed out that they are factually incorrect. He knows that Australian treasury bonds are denominated in AUD and sold on the open market by treasury, and they are further traded on secondary markets, just like shares or other financial assets. The RBA ensures that bond yields remain around the target rate, which is the interest rate setting of the RBA. The RBA does this by buying and selling bonds on the secondary market as required. The fact the “foreigners” buy these bonds is purely their own decision, and should we wish we can forbid foreigners from buying these bonds. The bonds are valued financial assets and are owned by many investors, including most super funds in Australia. Since we issue our own currency, there can never be a default on these “borrowings”, which is why they are valued.

    The credit rating agencies like to think their rating makes a difference to such bonds, but it is quite clear that in practice their ratings mean nothing. Notice that Australia’s debt has doubled in the last three years, but the RBA’s interest rate has come down. The conventional neo-liberal logic would expect it to go up, as there is a “greater risk”. In fact, everyone knows there is no risk.

    The ratings have a significance for bonds issued by entities which wish to borrow in a currency they do not issue.(e.g. Greece)

  58. Neil of Sydney

    Neil your mates almost tripled the deficit in 3 years .

    If you are talking about the budget deficit your statement is wrong. Swan ran deficits of $27B, %54B, $47B, $43B, $18B and $48B. Hockeys first deficit was $38B.So the budget deficit has not tripled.

    Don’t “guess” – go and find out for yourself!

    The Australian govt borrows money from Superannuation funds, investment trusts, private individuals and anything that wants to lend money to the Australian govt. Since we do not have enough local money to lend to the Australian govt, 70% of our borrowed money comes from overseas.

    That is why your comment about comparing us to japan is wrong. Japan can get most of its money from its own people. We have to get ours from foreigners. That is why our interest rates have to be higher than everyone else otherwise nobody would lend us any money.

  59. Neil of Sydney

    So those Superannuation funds who we all contribute to have cash deposits in govt bonds. Some have them as cash deposits in foreign govt bonds. The govt borrows from UniSuper or whatever. It then has to pay the money back when needed. If it pays ir back by printing money rather than taxes it dilutes the money supply and creates trouble.

    But my point is that Bacchus is wrong. We are not Japan.If we had the interest rates of Japan nobody would lend us any money.

  60. Bacchus

    LOL – you see now why I didn’t answer him totaram? (good summation of how it works btw).

    Even after you telling him, he STILL has no idea! He needs to learn to do his own research if he’s ever to learn anything.

  61. Neil of Sydney

    Don’t agree Bacchus. You have no idea even though Japan has a huge debt why they do not have high interest rates. If they needed to pay for their debt from foreign sources their interest rates would jump.

    Do you people ever concede that you may be wrong?

    and should we wish we can forbid foreigners from buying these bonds.

    OK then who would buy them? WE don’t have enough wealthy people/companies to buy these bonds. That is why we have to go offshore. While our interest rates have gone down they are still much higher than other Western countries

  62. Bacchus

    I’ll give you a little hint here Neil – What happens if the Japanese government can’t sell their bonds (that doesn’t happen even though they are paying NEGATIVE interest) is that the Bank of Japan buys the bonds… 😉

    We don’t “go” anywhere let alone offshore. They come to us – all of the bond issues are oversubscribed, here and in Japan where you have to PAY the Japanese to be allowed to hold their bonds!

    Why? The ratings agencies’ proclamations are meaningless. They supposedly tell the market how “safe” a bond is, what chance you’ll get your money back. With governments that are sovereign in their own currencies, that “chance” is 100%! Such governments can never involuntarily default on their “debts”. Those buying government bonds know this, so take no notice of Moody’s or Fitch or Standard & Poor’s.

  63. Neil of Sydney

    We don’t “go” anywhere let alone offshore

    We do go offshore. So do the banks. We don’t have the necessary savings in this country to fund out borrowings. And the banks don’t have the necessary deposits to fund their mortgage loans

    WE are not Japan otherwise our interest rates would be negative like theirs. Our interest rates are higher than most countries to attract foreign investors otherwise they would be as low as everyone else.

  64. Bacchus

    Neil – is there a difference between us selling government bonds to whoever wants to buy them and banks borrowing offshore? 😉

  65. Möbius Ecko

    So NoS derails the thread again to avoid talking about the utter clusterfluck of a party he slavishly supports. He will never address their considerable failings but always diverts back to Labor. His answer to anything bad about the Liberals, and cthulhu knows there’s so much wrong with them, is Labor. He’s not alone either, it’s the Liberals answer to their own substantial and numerous stuff ups as well.

    Liberals and their blinkered supporters can never see their own flaws and never admit fault even when it’s blatantly theirs.

  66. Neil of Sydney


    Get stuffed. This thread is dead, that is why i am posting here. If nobody wants to respond to my posts- good.

    What happens if the Japanese government can’t sell their bonds (that doesn’t happen even though they are paying NEGATIVE interest) is that the Bank of Japan buys the bonds…

    Good. Why don’t we do that then? I think it is called printing money and dilutes the value of the currency. You cannot print money without causing problems. It is the leftists wet dream. We are sovereign in our currency so we can print money to pay our debts. If it sounds to good to be true it most probably is.

    Neil – is there a difference between us selling government bonds to whoever wants to buy them and banks borrowing offshore?

    Don’t know but i would say no. Both govt and banks borrow offshore because we do not have enough local savings. That does not apply as much for Japan, USA, Western Europe.

  67. Michael Taylor

    So Neil, you tell Mobius to get stuffed for pointing out the bleedin’ obvious. Looks like you’ve got a long night ahead of you then. You’ve got a lot of people to tell to get stuffed.

  68. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    how old are you? Is your ideological point of view worth fighting for?

    If you will listen, your interests might be negotiated; otherwise, you are dead in the water with every other neoliberalist that hides behind the Lib/Lab duopoly.

  69. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    you have a really good opportunity on AIMN to learn about alternative points of view.

    Take the chance and learn is my recommendation.

  70. Harquebus

    A dysfunctional government at least can do no more damage. I think the election outcome was a good result and fifteen million weapons of small destruction, the ballot, did it.

  71. Bacchus

    Don’t know but i would say no.

    Well FIND OUT THEN – Your answer is incorrect…

    I’m sure we’d all appreciate it if you didn’t come back until you DO know the answer – argue from a point of knowledge (as most here do), not from a point of appalling ignorance!

  72. Michael Taylor

    Bacchus, do you remember that great laugh we had about six years about Neil needing to get his rocks off? Neil helped us, if you remember, by trying to convince us he doesn’t have any rocks.

  73. Jennifer Meyer-Smith


    nos might need guidance and doesn’t feel comfortable to ask.

    The facts are accessible ONLY to those in the know.

    Act accessibly and prove equitability and you might have an answer to how NOS might be satisfied with an answer before he changes forces from the Libs to the Labs.

  74. Bacchus

    Yes Michael – certainly remember that moment – Laugh? We nearly…!

    Neil is a strange beast – wilfully ignorant and proud of it! Yet he works at (or worked at, before those evil Russians came along) a university. There really is NO excuse for such ignorance!

    JM-S – Neil will never change forces. He’s not bright enough for that!

  75. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Hi Michael,

    good sir who let’s us debate on this site despite our political affliations.

    We need to keep the battle lines open so Labor appatchiks don’t assume superior power to quieter voices.

    Labor’s enemies are not us but the LNP neoliberalists.

    Meanwhile Labor would be wise to divorce themselves from any stupid, sell-out neoliberalists also.

    GO The ALLiance!

  76. Dan Rowden

    Why do I get the feeling I’ll risk a public stoning if I ask what this ‘alliance’ thing is? The author understands the election is over?

  77. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Simple Dan Rowden,

    The ALLiance between the Greens, Labor, true Progressives, sane Independents and now Nick Xenophon if he stays along true progressive.lines.

    You won’t be stoned if you prove to adhere to those values.

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