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An Open Letter to the Australian Financial Review

To the Australian Financial Review

I wanted to make you aware of the behavior of one of your columnists which is damaging your brand. I was also going to tell you that this columnist is diminishing public decency in Australia, however I don’t think you care much about that, so let’s stick with your brand.

The columnist in question is Wendy Grace Collier (now known as Grace Collier). Grace writes for you on what appears to be a fairly regular basis about industrial relations and unions. She is Managing Director of Australian Dismissal Services. Considering how many non-expert columnists there are in the Australian media, commenting on things that they have no expertise in, you should ordinarily be congratulated for finding someone who works in a particular field to provide expert commentary. In other circumstances, I might even go as far as saying this shows balance, and a respect for the facts.

But there’s just one problem. And this is that Grace Collier has shown on her Twitter account, in numerous examples, that she is not fit to be providing expert commentary on anything related to the Labor government, when she has such a deep, nasty and personal hatred of our previous Prime Minister, Julia Gillard and most of Gillard’s Labor colleagues. I’m not sure if you’ve seen Collier’s Twitter feed, which is why I’m bringing it to your attention now. After your parent company, Fairfax Media, severed their working relationship with columnist Catherine Deveny, it concerns me that you have not taken similar action over Grace Collier’s behavior. Wouldn’t it be slightly hypocritical for you to continue publishing Collier’s columns, when your company gave this explanation for why they could no longer publish Deveny:

“We are appreciative of the columns Catherine has written for The Age over several years but the views she has expressed recently on Twitter are not in keeping with the standards we set at The Age”.

Standards. Let’s have a look at the standards of behavior which Collier thinks are acceptable, which I assume that you don’t. I should mention here that I did not know Grace Collier existed until I recently heard her on Jonathan Green’s ABC Radio National Show Outsiders on June 16 of this year, where she said it was unprofessional for the Prime Minister, Julia Gillard, to show cleavage in parliament. I was horrified. After Googling Collier’s name, I found her business, and I found that she was an AFR columnist. I also found Collier’s Twitter feed. At first I thought this must be a satirical account, as I couldn’t believe that someone could be this nasty and rude about Julia Gillard, and also get given space to provide opinion in what I then regarded as a fairly professional, national newspaper and media website. But I have seen no evidence that this is a faux account. It appears to be Collier’s own words. Hence why I felt the need to bring these words to your attention.

As it says clearly on Collier’s profile, she is not a journalist, and everything she Tweets are opinions she stands by:

MsGraceCollierTwitterProfile

That is fine. Not everyone who writes for a newspaper is a journalist. And of course everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. But, in a respectable society, I would have thought there was some standard to be adhered to when it came to voicing these opinions. I would have thought that those people who choose to be blatantly derogatory, who choose to accuse the then Prime Minister Julia Gillard of being a criminal, who take great pleasure in spreading vile and nasty messages of hate on social media, would not be the very same people that respectable media outlets would choose to comment on political policy and industrial relations. It beggars belief that Collier is the one calling Julia Gillard ‘unprofessional’ when she is the one producing this mess of hate filled commentary, accessible to anyone with a Twitter account or access to Google.

As outraged as I was by Collier’s comments on Outsiders, I was far more upset by her Tweets last night during Kevin Rudd’s leadership challenge. At a moment when I was watching Julia Gillard, a woman who has achieved so much for the country, who has been bullied by the media, undermined by many in her caucus, who has stood up for ordinary Australians and never stopped fighting to secure once in a lifetime reforms, a woman who I admire as deeply as Collier hates her, a woman who is stoic in the face of all the hatred, the ‘ditch the witch’ placards, the comments about her deceased father, the nastiness around her childlessness and her partner’s sexuality, who has put up with all of this and retained her dignity, and while she was finally torn down, I see this Tweet from Collier:

MsGraceCollierTweet1

Then this:

MsGraceCollierTweet2

Then this:

MsGraceCollierTweet3

At this point, I would like to ask the AFR a question about standards. What has happened to the standards of behavior in this country if one of your columnists thinks it acceptable to direct this sort of public commentary towards Julia Gillard at a moment of devastation for her and those who have supported and admired her? I understand that Collier might not agree with Julia Gillard’s politics, but how has it come to be that a civilized country can be so full of such personal and derogatory hatred towards our first female Prime Minister, and how can these people not set higher standards for themselves? Because of course, this isn’t just about Collier. This is about everyone who behaves like her and who make people like her think it’s ok for them to behave like that too. It’s for the thousands of people on Twitter and Facebook who produce hate speech about Gillard, it’s for the Shock Jocks, it’s for the comments on news sites which are full of bile, but are completely unrelated to anything Gillard has ever said or done as a politician, as part of her service to the country as Prime Minister. And how has it come to be that you, a national business newspaper, would employ someone who behaves in this way to provide commentary on the policies of Gillard’s government, when it’s clear Collier’s personal opinion of Julia Gillard couldn’t possibly be put to one side when she is writing about Gillard’s government and the policies of this government? Surely there is someone with higher standards of acceptable behavior who could provide commentary on industrial relations, who doesn’t denigrate the act of providing commentary, the act of putting words to paper, with her vile behavior on social media? If you can’t find someone better, I suggest you haven’t looked very hard.

If you’re not already convinced, and slightly ashamed of ever publishing Collier in the first place, here are some other tweets from her Twitter feed which give further insights into the type of behavior I am talking about:

(Is this one promoting violence towards the Prime Minister?)

McGraceCollierTweetA

MsGraceCollierTweetImage

MsGraceCollierTweet13

MsGraceCollierTweet14

MsGraceCollierTweet15

MsGraceCollierTweet11

MsGraceCollierTweet9

MsGraceCollierTweet8

MsGraceCollierTweet7

MsGraceCollierTweet6

MsGraceCollierTweet5

Please consider what I’ve said, and for your own self-interest, if not also the interests of our society, think about whether Grace Collier is an appropriate representative for your brand.

Yours sincerely as always,

Victoria Rollison

 36 total views,  2 views today

123 comments

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  1. Nancy

    What a revolting person. But, I hear she is banging a Lib any ways.

  2. kdacy

    Grace Collier is a dull and commonplace Aunty Tom. One who seeks power through sicophantism to the group she believes to be winning, which will of course always be where the males dominate. Destructive, but predictable. Notable in her audacity but not worthy of note in her appeal to the disinterested lowest common denominator. Hang your head in shame, Collier. You have excelled in perpetuating common or garden bigotry.

  3. LInda

    Thank you for this. I feel like making some derogatory comments myself about Ms Collier but I will refrain because I am a civilised and decent human being. But you letter is perfect.

  4. Karen Campbell

    Can you tell me what is wrong with these women? Ms Collier and the like of Julia Bishop, what is with it, can they not stand that Julia Gillard succeeded and became the first female PM and they are just still frustrated wannabes. It is from business women and women in high ranking, respected jobs that I have heard the worst high school bitchy filthy crap coming out of their mouths about JG. Plain old fashion green eyed jealousy maybe????

  5. Patricia Ryan

    How low can these people stoop and how long till there is a huge backlash and a demand for some honesty and decency to bought back into our society as a whole? Thanks for your good work.

  6. Kaite M.

    I am speechless, i had heard about these tweets of her’s and her column but until now i hadn’t seen them. The Financial Review must take notice of your article, this behaviour is absolutely disgusting, the worst gutter slime i have heard for a long time and i won’t go out of my way to buy the AFR to read any more. Thankyou for writing this article.

  7. Dennis Ball

    Hope they have enough morality to kick her to the kerb.

  8. paul

    sounds like a bitch fight to me .

  9. spiro fragopoulos

    Thank You Victoria for exposing this hateful vengeful but IDIOTIC person to her employers.. If they have a shred a of decency they will chuck her out to the rubbish heap of failed wannabes,.They have no talent or genuine addition to our knowledge but because they are failures they resort to the crudest and commonest vile accusations ,vilifying their betters , in order to make up the slack and be noticed..””Ohh look at me , Look at me I am as vile and Crassly stupid as I can Be”
    Normally the bes practise should be to ignore the stupid and they will implicate themselves,but todays media has gone all out with makng villainu and stupidity the Status quo,,so now is the time to tackle it head on and apply Noellmuellers Credo.. First they denigrated The P.M. and I said Nothing cause I wasn’t The P. M… Then they….You get My drift,, So I am happy that you stood up and exposed this vile fake cause SOMEONE hhas to do it.. Good on Ya,

  10. eleanawi

    What is that supposed to mean Paul? I complained about her to the ABC RN Outsiders with Jonathan Green, but no reply as yet.

  11. helenmarg

    Bitter woman for some reason.

  12. spiro fragopoulos

    Filth should post only to filthy publications Mags Etc.Purported “Decent” publications should not accept/Print filth from filth merchants like Grace Collier whether her filth is implied or overt.

  13. Gerry

    Excellent article. If more of us address and point out how awful these people are, that we will not buy their drivel, we might have a hope of pulling our nation out of this awful atmosphere of childish bitchiness; for want of a better word. With luck we might see Collier put out of a job.

  14. helenmarg

    Wonderful article Victoria.Keep up the good work.

  15. Les Hulm

    It’s vile pigs like this that put womens rights back decades. If men of the same ilk take any notice of this hound then they translate that to the women in their and our everyday life. To me, unbiased media comments died years ago, but this trout mouthed halfwhit needs to be kicked to the curb!

  16. ozimarco

    Grace Collier’s are some of the vilest tweets I have seen about Julia Gillard. That such a despicable person could remain in the employ of a respected financial journal is beyond my comprehension. Surely the AFR is better than this pile of filth.

  17. jason h.

    From what I can tell , it sounds like a jilted lover or she was hired for 1 specific purpose a public smear campaign to drop approval ratings by 10 fold..

    this isn’t nothing unusual.. this what happens in the social media commentary..

  18. Jill

    Thank you so much for your excellent article. It applies to much of what has been happening in Australia’s MSM today. Shameful. Not a little frightening. The well has been truly and successfully poisoned. Will the AFR taken note, or are they enslaved to their masters? Yet another “newsource” to be dispensed with..

  19. Lee J.

    Goodness me, what is it with these conservatives that leaves them so twisted with hate? They must really hate themselves to hate others so much. And how have they come to infiltrate so much of the mainstream media? I note that she denies being a conservative too.

  20. Pistachio C

    Grace Collier making jokes about ticks…
    Given her experience with bugs she’s probably well qualified to do so.

  21. mikisdad

    Well said, Victoria. Abusive and hypocritical commentary in the Main Stream Media recently has been all too rife – as it has been amongst politicians and others.

    However, media outlets that profess to hold to appropriate standards should apply those standards universally. Unfortunately, the hypocrisy is not only present in commentary but in the actions of many of those who incite or sponsor it.

    The dismissal of the journalist in West Australia who commented on Julia’s partner & questioned about his sexuality, is a case in point. Whilst I don’t for one moment condone his questioning, the fact is that radio stations have been employing “shock jocks” for years and that others, such as Alan Jones and John Laws have made much worse attacks on their broadcasts. These radio stations fund such programs and the behaviour that accompanies them because it brings them audience numbers. (Which is a sad indictment on standards of intellect across the general community.)

    So, whilst I disagree with his behaviour, the sacking I believe to have been unfair. After all, he was simply doing what the station payed him to do. When it back-fired on them, they have simply used him as a scape-goat. Will it change their policy? I doubt it. He will simply be replaced by another senseless shock jock with a style that provokes hysterical and uninformed comment from listeners. The major culpability thus lies with the employers and station management.

    The foregoing is exactly why you are right to make the points you have. It is not trivial “bitching” or whatever was meant by a previous poster – it is a serious issue which needs addressing. I am not an “old fuddy duddy” and I disagree vehemently with censorship but I do believe that some common standards of decency and moderation should be followed by those with the privilege of access to large audiences and who are given a sense of credibility because of the branding of their medium.

    Your letter is a good one and, for what it’s worth – for I am a nobody – you have my full support.

  22. MP

    Looking at the language and descriptions Grace Collier uses she just may have a self esteem or childish mental health issue . Seems to potentially reflected in her behaviour through out her tweets and comments, where adults act like kids. Its generally associated with stress or attention seeking !

    Maybe you should pity the poor ol’ girl. And if the paper can not get better representatives it reflect on the papers credibility and integrity .

  23. Stephen

    Thanks Vic, another great article. I share our sentiments

  24. Amy

    My God – thanks so much for writing this letter on behalf of the dignity of Australia in general. What has happened to us? When did this kind of public slagging become ok? You wouldn’t get away with this in real life so why should you just because twitter was invented. This childish behaviour has to stop.
    If this is ok in the media – it’ll become ok on the street… can you imagine that?!

  25. Dave Emerton

    this person was wrongly named, NO GRACE.

  26. Angie

    This woman is so hateful and doesn’t represent any decent person who reads the AFR – she must be removed from all media! We are trying to have a country without bullies yet this vile woman is permitted to carry on like that high school bitch out for the afternoon fight just because she can.

    Mzz Collier must be made an example of and removed from your paper and if we all turn out backs on her then that’s one less ‘shock jock’ !

  27. Selina

    Thank you Victoria. well said. We have to keep fighting these people who are so filled with hate and think it is somehow clever to be abusive and childish.

  28. Gail

    Hard to believe the AFR is resorting to such tastelessness by employing people like graceless Grace. The same paper that employs quality writers like Laura Tingle appears to have gone to sleep at the wheel. But of course editors simply love it when a story creates a stir. Muck is good for business but we’re now drowning in it.

    I agree with MP that she would seem to have some mental health issue. She obviously craves attention at all cost and her only way of achieving this is through a series of playground taunts that are neither clever or witty. Her tweets sound as though she may have been under the influence of something at the time they were sent.

    The Australian press is reaching its nadir it seems (Paul Sheehan’s piece in the SMH another example). But an excellent letter Victoria. Thank you.

  29. Deb

    It seems the label “grace” has been applied to wrong person.

  30. Pingback: An Open Letter to the Australian Financial Review | lmrh5

  31. Rob

    I am so glad to be here. Thank you Ms Rollison.

  32. Yoon

    As I was reading your article, I just gapped wider!
    Such intense hate and venom leaves me limp.Poor woman is clear bereft of civility esp so during such a traumatic event. These diatribes should not swept aside casually as this could be misconstrued as acceptabl conduct.
    AFR, can you just shrug this off without taking appropriate actions to right a dispical wrong? I hope the answer is NO. Standards can only be achieved by setting examples.
    Ms Collier, as a woman ,I find your vilification of a fine woman entirely uncall for.
    Julia Gillard has conducted herself with great aplomb.Her foes 1. MSM, 2. OWN PARTY SABOTAGE, 3. OPPOSITION PARTY etc.. went out of their way to destabilised her, her efforts, her party and the country she was chosen to lead.
    We should cannonise her for all the sustained abuse she has had to endure for the last 3 years. Is your life so bereft of good that you see taking pock shots at others as fair game? Perhap a stint at being positive and nice might be a welcoming change? Go on, give it a try. You may even like it and yourself better.

  33. Di

    Wow…I agree, she needs to be aware that these kinds of comments are unacceptable as a rep of a MSM outlet such as the Australian Financial Review….by all means she can put this kind of thing on her own vile blog, but all ties with her from the AFR need to be severed!!

  34. Yoon

    Dear Victoria Rollison, I was so taken aback by such open, and vile that I forgot my manners, momentarily. I want to thank you for trying to make a better difference. Too often people are affected by these kinds of behaviours but take no action, on their own. Apathy is unobtrusive. It is easier to do nothing.
    I do not intend to do nothing when bullies are abound!
    Great writing, this letter.
    You may, then again you may not, get satisfaction but you DID SOMETHING.
    Yoon

  35. Lou

    Collier is vile and disgusting but there is a lot of people that hate Julia Gillard, including myself, a Labor member and a woman. I do not subscribe to the author’s view that a woman must vote for a woman, just because they’re a woman. It seems neither does JG, since she failed to support a female candidate in seats like Batman. I find the sympathy for this woman a person I regard as a cruel, mean-spirited, vindictive and spiteful saboteur, absurd if not disgusting. Imo she has done more to divide and destroy a party than any other person in recent history on either side of politics. Her campaign of lies, smears, character assassination of Kevin Rudd, OUR Prime Minister, over the last 4 years is absolutely disgusting. My hatred of her really kicked into maximum when after March, she said in an insufferably smug, gleeful tone that she thinks “its only appropriate that Kevin Rudd acknowledges he’ll never again lead the Labor Party”. Seriously, who does she think she is to make such a statement? Come on, the guy was down and she kept sinking in the boot, and he didn’t even challenge her, so why the need for her to be so spiteful, vindictive and cruelly rub his face in it? The smug and cruel taunting tone she used made me want to reach through the tv and bitchslap her. I can’t even imagine how Therese and Jessica felt. She really did not need to go that far. It was unnecessary and beyond the bounds. What I really don’t understand is, did she really think she could get away with doing what she did to OUR Prime Minister in 2010? Was she so full of hubris she thought she could get away with it and we’d just accept it? Like hell! I will NEVER forgive, ever, for what she did to our Prime Minister. As long as I live. KRudd didn’t stand a chance in his first term due to JG’s treachery. As Mckew told us, the plotting started virtually as soon as they were elected in 2007 and I, as a woman, believe it as I had a really bad feeling about her right from the start. There is a reason the majority of women don’t trust her or like her. Women’s intuition. Though its amazing how many hypocrites there are. JG gets a pass for her treachery in 2010, but, suddenly its wrong for KR to return the favour, and do what she did to him? Not on your nelly. Turnabout is fair play, what goes around comes around and all that. I honestly don’t get the sympathy for her, its absurd and I honestly and truly feel and believe that if JG weren’t a woman her actions all these years which ended in her last night receiving what she met out, she wouldn’t garner the sympathy she gets.

    Losing KR in 2010 was worse than losing Whitlam to me. Both revered, loved and capable men. But losing KR was made worse because it was traitorous scum like JG, his own party and his own people, who took our PM from us, not the rival. What I feel/felt over losing KR due to his own party, goes much deeper than anything I could have felt re Whitlam. Bottom line: Don’t complain about ‘destabilisation’ and being stabbed when YOU were the one who started it! Before piously complaining of ‘destabilisation’, JG and her henchmen should have thought of that in 2010. She forfeited that right on June 23 2010.

    Kevin Rudd is a decent man, he is a wonderful man and a wonderful PM and much loved by we, the people, the ones who actually *vote*. His colleagues may not be grateful for all he did in 2007, dragged them out of the wilderness after 12 years (and lets face it, it was “Kevin 07” not “Labor 07”) and knock off a sitting PM in his own seat (Bennelong), a feat that earns him Labor God status, the Stolen apology etc etc, this man has in my view, in the leadership stakes nothing to prove. I feel he had far more of an impact than JG ever will. I believe he is a better person and PM than JG could hope to be. I saw evidence today when neither Gillard nor Swan had the dignity, guts or ‘strength’ or decency to even attend parliament for Rudd’s address. Lets remember when Gillard took over from Rudd how Rudd was in parliament around half an hour after he was deposed. Now, THATS “strong”. That is strength. That is dignified. I’m not surprised by the vindictive display of a lack of dignity by her and Swan. I’m really not. And the speech she was absent for was a classy, generous (given the circumstances) and gracious speech KR gave about her. I have no doubt JG would not have treated KR with as much respect as he did. Bottom line is she over-played her hand and she fell flat on her face. That ‘winner takes it all’ stunt was unbelievably stupid and petty and it backfired on her big time. She gambled, and she lost. It wasn’t enough she smeared him for many years, or that she had the unions bully, intimidate and threaten members who voted with JG with disendorsement (which I’m told really p’d off many members of caucus), or to sic McTernan on to threaten a non-secret ballot, but she had to pull that petty and vindictive stunt. I was disgusted. That sort of behaviour should not be tolerated let alone rewarded. So I was glad that she flat on her face. A wrong was righted. Thankfully good won out.

    Finally I think today’s Question Time proved without a doubt that caucus made the right, and the only, decision. He was brilliant!! KRudd came in, picked up and went straight with the flow, almost as if he never left. It was bizarre. Almost like waking up from a nightmare and the last 3 years never even happened. If you watched you would have seen him knocking it right out of the ballpark. Twitter was all, wow, look at him go! He made Gillard look like an oratory pygmy. He brings it. He can really bring it. He certainly brought it today and if he keeps up the passionate delivery, he can win. It was a sight to behold. He did us proud, but thats the man. OUR Prime Minister. He is a wonderful and decent man who has been so hurt and been through so much, and by the very people he gave them their jobs, but in the end we had our Prime Minister returned to us and we all erupted in cheers and are determined now, now that we actually have a *real chance*, to throw ourselves into the campaign with a more determined renewed and passioned energy and conviction. Now, we actually have something to hope for. And I thank our caucus for that, for giving us our Prime Minister back and our hopes and dreams back.

  36. Lou

    By the way, I believed Gillard should be expelled from the Australian Labor Party for doing more damage to it since the DLP split. Her behaviour, achievements aside, has been disgusting and all because she coveted Kevin’s job. She has been so divisive and damaging I believe she should be expelled. But her being a woman apparently insulates her from consequences of her actions. Sigh.

  37. Pioj

    The depth of hatred towards Julia Gillard from the Conservative side of politics is an interesting phenomenon.

    If it’s related to the initial axing of Kevin Rudd then I might understand it from his supporters point of view but I can’t see how an LNP voter would feel the same way.

    If it’s related to breaking the “no carbon tax” pledge, I don’t recall the same intensity of feelings or even any concern when Howard broke his promise on the GST, or when the Libs, with Abbott as health minister, broke their promise in regards to increasing the threshold of the medicare safety net, or when Abbott broke his promise on not increasing taxes when he gains power (the Maternity Leave Scheme).

    I can only put it down to the constant assault of negative news in the media on the populace, something that I imagine is akin to what the Nazi propaganda machine did to the German population to turn them against the Jews. Of course, the more ignorant, simple minded and psychologically unbalanced ones, such as the likes of Grace Collier, are the ones most susceptible to brainwashing.

    I really can’t see a rational explanation for that level of hatred. If they hate her that much for breaking a promise or replacing a leader (for which any anger should be directed at the majority of Labor causus, not solely Julia Gillard), imagine the hatred if she had lied to the nation as an excuse to send us off to war. Oh wait….it’s a Conservative government which did that, and most of the LNP true believers just brushed it off a “so what” event.

  38. Phill

    I cannot understand vitriol and hatred; they must reflect some constriction of Heart, and narrowness of compassion. Julia enacted much good legislation, through stoic commitment to skillful negotiation, of worthy policy, in minority government; But she lived and died by the sword, after rudd’s colleagues found him wanting, and then found her wanting, in turn. That’s politics, on both sides. Simple. And, those that can, do; those that can’t, snipe. Simple…

  39. CMMC

    Swarming and pecking the prey with repetitve violence is how raptor dinosaurs evolved into birds.

  40. Pistachio C

    Grace Collier – who also once wrote:

    “IF you are going to take a baseball bat to a group of unions, you’d better not stop belting until there is none left alive. You had better finish them off once and for all because, like monsters in horror movies that just won’t die, unions rebound with renewed force and enraged retaliation. I would have thought that Work Choices had proved that. ”

    The Australian – October 31, 2011

  41. Gaik Ng

    The way some people have treated Julia Gillard has to be one of the most disgraceful part of the history of Australian politics. The worst kind of woman is a misogynistic one. I have great admiration for Julia Gillard, I have never heard or seen such denigration of one person before. It was and still is shameful, shame on all you bullies out there. There will be karmic justice.

  42. Helen

    Let’s talk about “Gypsy”. What did Collier mean exactly? Because if this was Europe, this would be a definite racial slur against romanian travellers. Was she referring to Gypsy Rose Lee or was she just indulging in Hipster Racism?

    There’s a brand of hipster antifeminism which is becoming fashionable at the moment, Collier is copying others but she doesn’t have the ear to get away with that style as others do.

  43. Lisa Simone

    Human rabies is almost always fatal. – Wait and see what happens !

  44. staffordhall

    Am I surprised? Of course not, its just more of the same from the MSM. Just another dill to put on the list!

  45. Erin

    Once again the hypocrisy takes my breath away. Happy to endorse this story on the AIMN whilst simultaenously encouraging supporters to post terrible pedophile slurs about the LOTO on the CW blog.

    “The haunting” caption competition

    Sorry but you can’t cry poor behaviour on one side, whilst encouraging it on the other. Not unless you hope to have even the slighest bit of credability.

  46. Colin Thai

    Very good article on Amazing GRACE !!!. Well I really cannot say what I’m thinking about this person or I would be in the same depths as her . Anyway here we go again, Richardson , Hockey, and the whole media…. They are all contemplating on what Rudd will do. IS THERE ANY OTHER NEWS,oh I forgot who’s running this media, They are all mentioning about “well this was from my source” is it HP. TOMATO. CHILLI. SOY. , please can somebody tell me how is that “Richo” RICHARDSON whatever their pet name they use for him getting paid my grandson at 10 years could make a better conversation, ok ive said my piece, thanking you……

  47. Victoria Rollison

    Excuse me Erin, but I don’t think it’s fair to judge a blogger by the standards of the comments on their post. I get some vile comments on my blog, and if I delete them everyone screams ‘censorship’. We can only be judged by the words we ourselves write, and in this case, we are looking at Grace Collier’s words, not comments from others about her words.

  48. Kim Wright

    Lou, Kevin most definitely has his followers but I am not one of them. I was in 2007 but was extremely relieved when he was deposed. You say he shone in Question time. The mans ego and delusional thinking was on show alright. Talk about the Ex PM as his Vice Prime Minister. He was in a space as if he had never left. No recognition of the past three years. ANd what of all the brilliant Ministers we have just lost. Are they too in the same book as you put Ms Gillard. Greg Combet as example? or are they just silly to have been lead by a woman. I am looking for a party that I can vote for and maintain my integrity. A party that supports dummy spitting, destabilising, white anting and bullying is not a party I can vote for. A PM who is prepared to place the party and the country at risk so he could get back at Ms Gillard is not someone I have any respect for. This act is not going to work for Rudd or for we plebs in the community that thought we had a party to support

  49. Colin Thai

    Sorry people I’m back !! On tv now is BARNABY JOYCE. IM OFFTO DO THE GARDEN. WHERE IN THE WORLD DID THESE PEOPLE GET EDUCATED ?? maybe they should go to a GONSKI school !!!!!!! Thanking you…..

  50. triciabertram

    I also checked out her twitter feed after someone posted the “I want to see her cry” tweet on facebook. I was appalled.
    I’m pleased you raised the issue of Catherine Deveny. I would like to add, Catherine, is a boundary pushing comedian, this woman is just plain nasty. Ms Collier, only ‘thinks’ she’s funny. There is no wit in her tweets, only venom. Her comments border on dysfunctional. At the very least, Ms Collier, is unprofessional.

  51. Wen

    I also am at odds with the emotion and perpetration of ‘hatred’. Never have I seen or heard so much reference to how everyone ‘hates’ people, actions etc. as we have during the past PM’s time at the helm of this country. How can you say you ‘hate’ someone you do not know personally? You may not agree with and protest their behaviour but unless you know them what are you basing your hate on? Misinformation, innuendo, gossip? Hardly valid don’t you think? I strongly object to the behaviour, lack of ethics, meanness, spite fullness etc of all people such as Ms Collier but I don’t hate her, mostly because I wouldn’t waste precious energy on her and refuse to get drawn into her and others vitriol by replying in kind.

    I believe we have become a society too focused on hatred and negativity and not focused enough creating a civil society. The interesting thing is that a great many people who relentlessly vilified Julia Gillard in the most hideous ways have come out and are now communicating her value and successes and I find it hypocritical in the extreme. We should be doing exactly what Victoria has done, put our concerns in writing, object and bring some sanity in person and start acting in ways that actually emulate what we want society to feel and look like.

    Contrary to some opinions on this page Julia Gillard is funny, warm and engaging as well as being a resilient, tough and intelligent leader ( apparently unattractive in a woman) as has been borne out by comments from her staff, parliamentary colleagues and people who really do ‘know’ her. Kevin Rudd was replaced for what appears to have been good reason. (Exemplified by the fact he has admitted to being a changed person). Politics is hard, decisions are made that really disappoint and sadden us all, but do we need to personally vilify and hate everyone who doesn’t agree with and please our every wish? I am incredibly disappointed by the actions taken in the last 48 hours but wish Mr Rudd well because I want Labor to win and I choose to take a much bigger picture view.

    I also struggle with the constant references to bad behaviour being ‘childish’ etc. No child is born hating and rarely are and we learn to hate and behave hatefully and I ‘m guessing that due to the current preponderance for hatred there are a few lessons being learnt as we speak.

    If I have learnt anything from the past 3 years it is that I don’t want to live in a society exemplified by hatred, vilification, self interest and spite and intend to do whatever I can to avoid this happening.

    A massive thank you to Victoria for bringing this to the forefront of our thinking.

  52. Erin

    Thanks Victoria, but there is a big difference between deleting or censoring comments on a blog and inviting and encouraging them. It’s clearly the latter in this instance.

  53. cuppa

    Her views make her an almost obligatory commentator on their ABC.

  54. Möbius Ecko

    Erin can you point me to where in Bolt’s and other right wing blogs you have made the same complaint?

  55. Kim Wright

    Wen, beautifully written. Thank you

  56. triciabertram

    Wen, I also want to thank you for.your thought provoking, reasoned comment.

  57. J.Fraser

    @Victoria Rollison

    Move it over to Get Up and give everyone the chance to get her sacked.

  58. Michael Taylor

    Erin,

    What is said over at CW is totally irrelevent to what is said here. Stop clutching at straws.

  59. Erin

    So by your logic Michael, what’s said on Twitter for example would be completely irrelevant to what’s said in a newspaper ?

  60. Bob Evans

    Lou, agree with you 100%. My thoughts and arguments here exactly. People attack Rudd, for the very thing that JG started. That aside, I supported her and admired her. But it’s important not to kid ourselves that she was justsome innocent party in all of this.

    On a different note, I hope Labor wins, as I am going to send Collier daily gloat emails. What a disgusting human being. Liberal genes through and through.

  61. Mish

    Please everyone who feels strongly about how disgusting this person is, write to her at her website as I have done expressing your disgust. The most concerning thing is that she is supposed to be a workplace expert but clearly has no respect for women in their place of work by going on about Julia Gillards dress or anatomy. Anyone who thinks Julia Gillard every dressed provocatively is a bit sick in the head. HOWEVER look at Julie Bishop sometimes and see the difference!! As we have all known for years, (except of course this silly twit Grace Collier) being dressed a certain way does not give the green light to a male or anyone to attack you verbally or physically so cleavage or not, who cares! Disgusting of Grace Collier, and she should be very ashamed of herself.
    Here is her website http://dismissals.com.au/ – give her a piece of your mind direct!

  62. Michael Taylor

    By my logic, Erin, a site owner or author can say and do whatever they like on their own site. Deal with it or go elsewhere.

  63. Mish

    Just one more point, on her website the slogan is ‘We are Australia’s premiere ‘Unfair Dismissal’ experts. We represent both employers & employees’

    Would you trust this woman to represent you if you were bullied out of your job for sexual harassment? Bullying? For being targeted with unwelcome sexualised comments or advances due to having a large chest? DEFINITELY NOT!!

  64. Lee J.

    Lou: if you’re going to pretend to be a woman, then you’d better use a woman’s name as your ID. And if you’re going to pretend not to be a conservative, then you’d better use facts and logic, rather than just emotion. Any objective analysis of the situation would tell you that the way Kevin has behaved white-anting his own party for three years and sabotaging the 2010 election – combined with the uncontested testimony of many, many people who’ve worked with him (public servants as well as politicians) – shows his true nature, and the need for Gillard to replace him three years ago. I see no evidence that he has changed since then, but I hope like hell that he has – he is undoubtedly a great parliamentary performer and public speaker, and sadly (because there are so many irrational people like you) Labor’s best chance of winning the election. Even he is still far better than an Abbott government, which would be a absolute disaster for Australia, and destroy much of Gillard’s considerable legacy. But these do not make Kevin an honourable person.

  65. Mish

    Wen above, I agree, however I do not think that Julia Gillard had anything to do with that, rather was a victim of it, and this in my mind all started when Tony Abbott launched his ‘ditch the witch’ campaign, which was structured and broadcast just like an old fashioned witch hunt, which brings about race and sex hatred with groups of wild vigilantes burning woman with talents at the steak out of fear! The same type of vigilantes wandering around with burning crosses and white hoods wanting to kill black Americans, and non racists white people in our no too distant history in the world.
    If you want to blame anyone for the ‘hatred’ that has crept into our political head office and then filtered through to society, blame Tony Abbott and his team for running such a disgraceful, undignified and hate filled campaign which sends a message that a witch hunt it ok in our society, because one of out leaders has endorsed it. What would young boys and men in our society make of that?? From that point, it was a gender war started by Tony Abbot and co as no man in any position would ever be called a ‘witch’ indicating she should be persecuted and burned at a steak for having her own, or differing views to them as men. What else were they hoping for? That, was and will be in my mind for a very long time the LOWEST POINT in our political history, and this Wendy Grace Collier – very close second.

  66. bloodbeakthepeacekeeper

    “People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.”
    ― Søren Kierkegaard

  67. Bob Evans

    Sorry Lou, upon re reading your comment, I agree about the blood on JG,s hands and support Rudd. But unlike you, I don’t hate JG. Despite what she did to Rudd , she also did a lot of good and she was on my side. Which was opposing a right wing fascist Abbott led government .

  68. Stratos Pavls

    Thanks – Well written

  69. Wen

    Mish, I have been misunderstood if you you believe that I am not very aware (and deplore) the level of vitriol and demonising that Julia Gillard experienced and that in fact I am more than aware that she was victimised horrifically. My point is that hate and and hate based diatribe (by Ms Collier and her like) serves no one and certainly not the country as a whole. As you so aptly point out, terrible things have happened, both historically and in modernity when a culture of hatred is encouraged. To me, hate based language and communication across all mediums is the cornerstone of this enculturation. I also did not at any time seek to ‘blame’ anyone, I have held a life long belief that blame is useless, it is more about responsibility and I also believe that the Grace Colliers of this world should be made responsible and as Victoria has espoused, she should be made responsible by her employers. I also agree that it appears that the LNP are perpetrators of this culture where the term and culture of ‘hate’ has gained enormous traction. I am an avid political participant and have longed worked to engender a more civil society and as such I am also offended every single day by the stance that many cannot seem to move away from.

  70. Grant

    The decent thing to do would be to call the vet… for Grace Collier. I am no fan of Gillard, but this abhorrent vitriol is uncalled for. Lets see how she takes the focus when its aimed at her.

  71. mikisdad

    Lou – whoever you are – your diatribe against Julia Gillard and against Victoria, the author of this piece, is nothing sort of self-opinionated vitriol, replete with false statements, abusive language and tenor, and irrational prejudice.

    The only useful contribution you have made to this discussion is in exemplifying exactly the sort of mean-spirited and malicious behaviour that Victoria chose, to her credit, to condemn. Hence, if any reader were in doubt about the unintelligent & malignant style of Ms. Collier, having read your posts they will have a clear understanding.

    I cannot know from where your ignorance derives but be assured that it does you no credit, as neither does your resort to hysterical and malignant hyperbole.

    Can I recommend a panadol or a stiff Scotch or, if you’re already on drugs and that’s the cause of your outburst, I would suggest a walk in the park.

  72. mikisdad

    I support your wish for a more courteous, rational, and informed social and political climate.

    As far as “childish” is concerned, I think that it is used not in disparagement of children but because children are, without exception, and unavoidably because of their stage of development, egocentric. Precisely because they can be nothing else, we accept that children cannot see the World from another’s point of view but when adults act that way, such “childish” behaviour is not appropriate for adults, by definition, are no longer bound by that stage of development.

  73. wantok

    It is people like Collier who are given oxygen by the media ( and there are quite a few at News Ltd although without the same level of venom) that made it virtually impossible for Prime Minister Gillard to be recognised for her achievements and be re elected.

    In the circumstances Rudd is the right choice to take on Abbott and, judging by today’s press conference , Rudd will get the media air space that Gillard was denied.

    Incidentally, I too had never heard of Collier until the Outsiders segment and I was amused to hear her say, after Eva Cox and Bernard Keane had pulled her up on her outrageous comments about Gillard’s cleavage, that this was why she didn’t like coming onto the ABC: evidently she doesn’t like to be held accountable for her rantings ; has she tried 2GB ?

  74. Berny

    These Libs have no dignity at all. Anything is ok as far as they are concerned

    I too feel like making some derogatory comments about Ms Collier, [and Lou] but like so many ethical people here, I will refrain because I believe we should all strive to be civilised and decent human beings who believe in human dignity and I too would only be stooping to loathsome levels if I did. But then let’s not forget, that this type of behaviour is the LNP. And because I believe it is usually adopted by those with severe inadequacies, I could not in all conscience, vote for the LNP.

    Interesting to note, that if the people who condone, and practice Collier style gutter vitriol, had their possessions stolen or their kids are bullied at school, They would go ballistic and demand action???[She’d be a perfect candidate for Howard Sattler’s job. Be a perfect fit me thinks].
    “[The smug and cruel taunting tone she used made me want to reach through the tv and bitchslap her. Lou.]” I rest my case!

    Lou, you misread in your anger that most feeling ppl have a sympathy for both JG and KR. But politics is not bingo, they are working in the most competitive game in town! Most of us didn’t like what happened to KR either but we don’t go insane wanting to cause bodily harm [vengeance]. And given KR has done exactly he same thing it shows he’s no better, if one follows your line of reasoning.

  75. uknowispeaksense

    Ahh, Grace Collier, the idiot who uses Homer Simpson’s make-up gun.

  76. Mary Conlon

    A great article. Thank you. And thanks to Wen. I did not agree with Mr Rudd’s dismissal – how it was done was inevitably going to disenchant the voters who voted – as one person put it – for Kevin 07 not Labor 07. Ms Gillard has suffered a similar defeat. That’s politics. However much I regret it. I am not sure which person I support, but I do believe that Abbott as PM would be horrifying. It seems to be that since he was unable to stitch up a deal with independents of mainly his own political persuasion he spat the dummy and spewed bile from that day forth. I have been left open mouthed at the vitriolic hatred for Ms Gillard. Attack the politics not the person. Such abuse directed to the person of our nation’s leader is not acceptable. Personal abuse and hatred for someone you don’t know – come on! Shades of the vilification of Jews by Nazi Germany indeed. When did political discourse sink so low. I work in a primary school where we try to teach children it is not acceptable to resort to abuse, anger and threats of violence. If you cannot come out with a cogent argument say nothing.

  77. GeorgeMitchell

    Just a mediocre talent screaming for attention. Anyone could do it, most don’t. Best ignored.

  78. rossleighbrisbane

    From Crikey:
    “Amazing Grace. Australian Financial Review columnist Grace Collier had one hellava time on Wednesday night as she watched the Labor leadership drama unfold. One Twitter user has compiled a timeline of Collier’s tweets from that night …

    (You’ve already read them above in Victoria’s blog so I haven’t reproduced them!)

    Collier has now locked her Twitter account so only select followers can read her musings. Wonder why …”

  79. gordonwa

    Julia Gillard is a warm and charming woman. I was privileged to attend the her conversation with Ben Elton. During that event she had numerous opportunities to attack her opponents, especially in the MSM/ABC and she resisted.

    Julia Gillard was an extremely effective Prime Minister (look at the legislation passed) in a hung parliament while battling internal destabilisation and a carping media.

    Let’s not forget that Julia Gillard was Prime Minister of Australia, something Grace Collier and her ilk will never, ever be.

  80. girlseule

    I have never heard of her, but I can’t believe an adult would write that shit. It’s the kind of things a school kid would say. “c’mon I want to see her cry!” what an arsehole.

  81. triciabertram

    I went to her business website, listened to her spiel then left a question – How can you hope to advise on discipline, Ms Collier, when it’s obvious you have a complete lack of self discipline?
    Ms Collier has limited those who can tweet their comments, but she can’t close her business contact facility without the risk of losing possible business. I left my full name and contact details.

  82. rossleighbrisbane

    I think that Lou is not actually a Rudd supporter. I’ve read several of “her” posts and it seems to me that she is deliberately trying to stir the anger of people disappointed with Gillard’s axing. Her language and attitude is not consistent with someone who should be pleased that “her” poster boy has just been returned to his “rightful” position. As for the idea that she was more upset about Rudd than Whitlam?!?? Not to mention the idea that Gillard has done more damage than the DLP. Only someone old or extremely educated would have a concept of how damaging the DLP were to Labor until Whitlam destroyed them by bribing Vince Gair with an ambassorship.
    In either case, she’d be trying to encourage the disaffected Julia Gillard supporters to unite behind Rudd to stop Abbott.
    Unless she’s actually a complete moron. So which is it, Lou? Are you a troll or a complete moron? Tell us a little bit about yourself…

  83. rossleighbrisbane

    Strangely, she only posts comments – with comments longer than some blogs – on blogs about leadership. And then doesn’t check back to see what effect her comments have had.

  84. Trish

    Vile and, doesn’t actually seem too bright! Can’t believe she’s published in the AFR.

  85. Lynette Mary Smith

    Well written and insightful article about Collier, an obviously nasty piece of work. Vitriolic cow! Needs her oxygen supply well and truly cut off. Hope she’s now running scared in terms of her twitter account.
    Agree with gordonwa that she,unlike Julia, will never reach the high level of office attained by Julia…….hopefully she will lose her ability to write for the AFR.

  86. lawriejay

    I recall back in 2010 talking to two of my friends in Queensland who both lamented that the voters in Queensland were waiting with their base ball bats to take to Keven that he was so on the nose up there. The night he was replaced by Julia he was referred to the Pope and the following day he was cannonised a saint as a martyr for all things decent ???

    Later the narrative on the change of leadershiup changed to one that Queenslanders hated Julia because she had denied Queenslanders the opportunity to take to him with their base ball bats ??? go figure ??

    Great column Victoria!

  87. wantok

    lawriejay, I think your ‘friends in Queensland’ have sadly misled you. To assume that the sentiment of a state is representative of the opinions of just a few is a fatal flaw.

  88. ibid editing

    Thank you for this letter. I too have been horrified by the disgraceful, cruel and immature tweets of Grace Collier.

  89. Mish

    Dear Everyone Interested, I wrote directly to Australian Dismissal Services, which is the company this person – amazingly – is the owner of, Hard to believe I know that Grace Collier would be someone who would represent women who had been harassed in their place of work after her comments. I encourage everyone who has written on here to also write directly to her on her site, telling her how disgusted you are. I did and here’s her response that is apparently an automated one !!

    “Please be advised, the website enquiry portal you recently used to send your message is operated and owned by a private commercial business, it is not a communication tool for your personal opinion and should not be used for such, please do not repeat.

    Your message was blocked and screened by our marketing department as being inappropriate, or irrelevant to our core business. Please also be advised, our Managing Director does not read nor attend to any enquiries through this portal whatsoever.

    Our business argues unfair and unlawful dismissal matters for both employees and employers in the Fair Work Commission and the Federal Court systems, we do not respond to, or argue any opinion for free, ever, we charge $795.00 (ex GST) per hour for non-contracted services.

    Due to the nature of your message, we have assumed it not a genuine request for a response, rather a blatant misuse of our commercial enquiry system. Any further abuse of this communication system will result in both your IP address and any contact details being reported to authorities as such.

    Please find something more useful to do with your time and do not waste ours again.”

    I replied telling her she was a disgrace to women and the industrial law profession. I guess that was ‘blocked’ too. Seems she can dish it out but can’t take it back.

  90. Bob Evans

    @Ross

    I’ve read several of “her” posts and it seems to me that she is deliberately trying to stir the anger of people disappointed with Gillard’s axing.

    How do we check previous posts? I didnt pick up on that with her, but am happy to be swayed by evidence. But at the same time Ross, Ive stated that I am a Rudd supporter ( also a Gillard supporter, but I prefer Rudd), so are the MP’s in the Labor Party who backed him before and now. Are they all Liberals as well?

    I find it incredulous that people could have this position where they can’t fathom that anyone could possibly have any support for Rudd, will not acknowledge a single thing he did and are determined to not highlight a single fault of Gillard, but Rudd appears to ONLY have faults and no positives.

    Her language and attitude is not consistent with someone who should be pleased that “her” poster boy has just been returned to his “rightful” position.

    Hmmm, I must admit, while I support Rudd, I am not gushing like Lou. It does seem a little contrived.

    And then doesn’t check back to see what effect her comments have had.

    It does make me wonder about these Independent blogs. They are not under the protection of conservative moderators like on Ltd News and surely sites like this are on the Liberal radar, where paid commenters are encouraged to either brutally oppose, or passively go along with the ideology, but insert disunity, or plant seeds. Plus there are the HBGary persona bots & this site doesnt have captcha phrases, so bots can easily penetrate.

    Lou, if you are not a bot and genuinely back Rudd, please respond.

    That aside Ross. I do feel in the minority when I say that I support Rudd and I do get the overwhelming feeling that many people here and on other independent blogs would rather see Labor lose and Abbott win if Gillard cannot be in control. Makes me wonder about allegiances and who the real supporters of opposition to Abbott are? Ive only seen a couple of people here say that despite opposing/hating Rudd , they still want Labor to win. That to me, is very suspect. My conservative mates at work were incredibly outraged at Rudd getting back in, as they see less of a chance of Abbott winning. I get the same feeling in here. People are so outraged that Rudd is back in, even though, clearly Labor has a better chance of winning now.

    After all, you cannot deny that Rudds support is greater than Gillards and he has a better chance of beating Abbott than Gillard. People seem to be angry about that, which is perplexing to me.

    I fully admit that Gillard did great things against an incredibly hostile partisan media and I supported her through her reign, but I’m not going to completely white wash her failures ( Or Rudds) because I am that one eyed and bias. People here seem to be in complete denial, similar to how climate change deniers are resistant to evidence. Did Gillard not do a single thing wrong? Nothing? And should Labor win or not?

  91. Bob Evans

    @Mish

    I encourage everyone who has written on here to also write directly to her on her site

    I was going to, but she would probably forward the first 3 drafts I did to the police. So I exercised restraint and deleted them. I will just send daily gloat emails if Labor wins.

  92. mikisdad

    It is a real shame but I think the followng words contain much truth :

    If you want that good feeling that comes from doing things for other folks then you have to pay for it in abuse and misunderstanding.

    Zora Neale Hurston

    Good on you Mish, for attempting to confront this person, however, remember that it is not unusual that the ignorant and cowardly who promote most abuse are those who most readily scream loudest and run away when exposed for what they are. It is also not likely that with rational argument one can change someone whose arguments are not based on rationality.

    Probably the most effective way to deal with such people as Collier is to avoid giving them the attention they so crave and, in this case, to alert anyone we can to the bullying nature of her business and the complete unlikelihood that it could do anything worthwhile in its purported field of expertise.

    Having fought the sort of moronic behaviour exhibited by Collier and shock-jocks in general, I know how readily one can become seen as the “bad guy” and all that brings with it – however, I also understand how hard it is for good people to stand by and not respond to the likes of Collier so I applaud the efforts of Victoria, yourself, and others who have commented here and attempted to change things or at least voice their deep disgust at Collier’s behaviour for it is particularly concerning when taken in context. I’d just caution all who feel this way (with no criticism whatsoever intendend) against putting yourselves in a situtation where it can be claimed that you are “behaving badly” or being verbally abusive. I know it’s hard and goes against every grain of your being to back off, and it can only be an individual’s decision, but it is very easy to step over the very line, the crossing of which, by another party, is the subject of your ire. 🙂

  93. rossleighbrisbane

    @Bob
    I don’t consider everyone who disagrees a troll, but Lou seemed a little too provocative to simply be a Rudd supporter.
    If you check my blogs, I don’t think you’ll find that I’ve done much more than comment on how the whole thing has played out. If it seems to you that I’ve been totally supportive of Gillard, then that’s probably because her faults have been amplified – in some cases, even created – by the MSM, so I probably haven’t felt it necessary to rehash them here.
    I’d actually like to be having a crack about both Rudd and Gillard’s inability to find a reasonable and humane solution to the asylum seeker problem. And to be pointing out some of the problems with things like the MySchool website and NAPLAN.
    But I actually feel like they’re insignificant when I look at the Liberal’s “policies”. If Abbott is rewarded for his constant negativity, I regard it as a moment that may change the way politics is played for years to come.
    I fully understand people’s disappointment and anger with the events of the week, but I think the way forward is to focus on preserving the achievements by keeping Abbott from becoming PM.

  94. rwthorne

    I went to her website and wrote a very polite message deploring the vindictiveness of her tweets. Have just received a very angry reply telling me I was not permitted to send these kinds of messages to that site and threatening me with reporting me (not clear what they could do or even what they meant). Not wanting such an abusive message anywhere near me, I deleted it immediately. Wish I’d kept it and posted it here! Anyone else had a similar experience?

  95. triciabertram

    Yesterday i wrote on her business site asking how she felt she could be fair minded in workplace discipline issues if she was struggling with selfdiscipline. Left my name and mobile no. but got no response.

  96. rwthorne

    Sorry Mish! Just read your comment fully. Silly me!

  97. diannaart

    A belated thank you, Victoria, for this article.

    Have been in a daze for, well, days now. Can’t seem to function at all.

    I had never heard of G Collier until the Outsiders either, her imagination concerning Ms Gillard’s cleavage appears mild compared to her Tweets.

    It is perfectly acceptable to hold conservative views, I can understand this, it’s a safe option, everything has its place and all that. However, why does being conservative have to drag with it a profound and vicious hatred of anyone who does not fit the narrow conservative world view?

    Look where this unremitting hatred has brought Australia – a face-off between a couple of blue-ties where one is only slightly redeemed by the other by virtue (such as it is) of being a Labor politician. A Labor politician who would blend very well with his Liberal counterparts.

  98. mikisdad

    @Bob I agree with much of what you say. However, in reading the comments here I don’t get the impression that any of those who have expressed concern at Julia Gillard’s treatment or a distaste for Kevin Rudd, would actually prefer an Abbott victory. Neither do I believe that only ALP supporters would be or are offended by the sort of comments made by Collier.

    I have supported the Australian Labor Party for many years but since 2007, although extremely pleased that Howard had finally met his demise, I have been increasingly concerned at the narrowing of the difference between the two major parties. At the same time, I have consistently both held and expressed the view that any “ordinary” person who votes for a Liberal Party Government is misguided, at the very least. It is certainly clear to me that the Liberal’s will always act in the interests of the wealthy and the “big end” of town and, by contrast, the ALP at least pays some attention to the needs of the majority of us who are not wealthy.

    For me, it remains a view that the dumbing-down of society that has become a cliche, *is* in fact, a reality. It seems to me that populist policy is what attracts voters now, more than at any other time in Australia’s history. It also seems to me that both major parties are guilty of appealing to it, though I would argue there is a substantial difference in the degree to which each does so.

    What is my point? Well, I guess that, whilst we do need to stand up and rebuke those such as Collier, Jones, Laws and Pyne, who seem capable only of invective and abuse, what is as important, if not more so, is that we don’t allow such behaviour to divert us from engaging in sound political discourse around policy issues that affect us all. Yes, Collier’s remarks are reprehensible and abhorrent but there will always be people such as her and, no matter how hard we try, we won’t change them. Let’s use our time and energy to articulate valid and desirable policy, rather than be too distracted by moronic behaviour such as hers.

    Many people are revolted not only by the treatment received by Julia Gillard but also by Kevin Rudd’s undeniable egocentric white-anting of the government which was (in my opinion) largely responsible for the loss of Labor seats which led to the hung parliament, as well as the continuing drop in Labor support due to the instability he created. For this reason, many find it hard to simply accept Rudd’s second accession to the Prime Ministership without voicing their shock, however I don’t believe that is evidence that they think Julia Gillard was perfect or that they will desert Labor simply because Kevin Rudd is in charge. On the contrary, where that happens I believe it far more likely that it will be the result of distaste for offensive policies towards asylum seekers which both major parties seem to share.

    What we need is more civil and constructive discussion about what values we wish to support in Australia and how we are to measure their achievement. We may then be able to assess the merits of Party Policy as it relates to national well-being, and make responsible voting choices rather than ones based on habit, inheritance, or personal self-interest as opposed to collective advancement and opportunity.

  99. mikisdad

    My apologies for poor proof-reading. In the penultimate paragraph of my previous post I meant to write, ” …the result of distaste for offensive policies *such as those* towards asylum seekers …” I had not intended to suggest that a single policy was the cause.

  100. Kim Wright

    Berny I think you misspoke suggesting that most didn’t like what happened to Kevin Rudd. I personally cried with relief and then watched with absolute despair as he white anted, sabotaged, destabilised, bullied and ridiculed his Leader and the party he supposedly loved, to assuage his own ego.
    Across the blogs I think you will find that I am not alone here and it will cost Labor. And Kevins reign will be short lived because his ego hasn’t let him see the trap he fell in to.

  101. wantok

    Kim you’re not alone but you are in a significant minority; Rudd, like him or not, is the only chance of Labor giving us a contest which is what Julia could not do for all the reasons we have noted ( including the vitriol of the likes of Grace Collier)

  102. Bob Evans

    @Mikiadad

    Mate, i agree with most of what you say except for this:

    Many people are revolted not only by the treatment received by Julia Gillard but also by Kevin Rudd’s undeniable egocentric white-anting of the government which was (in my opinion) largely responsible for the loss of Labor seats which led to the hung parliament, as well as the continuing drop in Labor support due to the instability he created.

    That is where we will have to agree to disagree. People repeatedly and suspiciously ignore the fact that Gillard undermined and conspired against Rudd first. Instead of approaching him and saying he needed to pick up his act and the ministers involved having some foresight into gauging what the public reaction to this betrayal would be, they threw caution to the wind and ruined the public image of Labor.

    McKew had evidence of it and Tanner said it was the wrong thing to do. She undermined him publicly and 4 corners asked her (Gillard) 2 weeks before the coup if she was undermining Rudd and whether she had seen research into his undermining and she said she “didn’t recall”. Then once she wrested control, she had the gall to ask for unity and loyalty. That to me and many others is hypocritical and in-genuine .

    To lay fault of bad polling and dislike of Gillard at the fault of Rudd only and to ignore her own role and the subsequent MSM onslaught and mileage from that episode is drawing a long bow.

  103. Bob Evans

    @Wantok

    Kim you’re not alone but you are in a significant minority; Rudd, like him or not, is the only chance of Labor giving us a contest which is what Julia could not do

    Spot on. Kim, out of interest, do you want Labor to win?

  104. mikisdad

    Yes Bob, I agree that Julia Gillard also contributed to the disunity – I don’t believe that Kevin Rudd is solely to blame for Labor’s woes, but I do believe that he could have and should have been bigger than to sabotage his own party.and that this was the major reason that the MSM had so much ammunition with which to play.

    I guess that what we’d both perhaps agree on is that a return to strong Labor principle would be desirable and also, again perhaps, that this would be the best way of combating the LNP and appalling likelihood of an Abbott government. That’s just too depressing to contemplate, particularly after the still recent 12 years of the worst and most parsimonious PM ever, JH. If it happens, I don’t know what I’ll do – the sight of Howard & Abbott at the LNP campaign launch made me want to retch and if I’m unfortunate enough to see or hear whining Pyne, I usually do. I’ve already (irrationally, I know) destroyed one tv in response to Howard & been close to suicide because of the wretched lack of compassion and excess of self-interest & materialism in our society and if Abbott’s mob are elected, I’ll likely go through with it.

  105. Bob Evans

    @Mikisdad

    but I do believe that he could have and should have been bigger than to sabotage his own party.and that this was the major reason that the MSM had so much ammunition with which to play.

    Replace the words “him” with “her” and that’s exactly how I feel and see the situation also.

    It is like the initial Gillard coup is completely blotted out of peoples memories and day one, starts with her being leader with no previous history.

    I guess that what we’d both perhaps agree on is that a return to strong Labor principle would be desirable and also, again perhaps, that this would be the best way of combating the LNP and appalling likelihood of an Abbott government.

    Aye. In that we do 😉

  106. Kim Wright

    Its not just Rudd that people are disappointed in. Its the party that demonstrated their preparedness to reward the members who were prepared to damage the party by destabilisation, bullying, white anting for their own egos so as to get a bump inn the polls. It was Ms Gillard who was prepared not to play Murdochs game and it is obvious by the calling off of the pack now, that Rudds ok in Murdochs eye. Why do you think?
    I want a party that has ethics and integrity. Labor has just proven it is no longer that party. I want a party who stands and fights for its values and its integrity, doesn’t throw away those that demonstrate competence because they don’t have a good media profile or more to the point the media doesn’t want them in. The only person who has won here is Murdoch. Rudd will crash and burn and yes he may even win before or after this crash or burn. What has Australia lost through this demonstration by the Labor party. A moral compass for one. Ms GIllard and the Ministers we have lost were the only good things between the thinking people and those baying for blood. As for women. JEEZ what a message to the community that was!

  107. Kim Wright

    Bob Evans,seriously you think its ok to ask me who I want to win one week after a wound this size has been inflicted. At this very moment I would feel very uncomfortable with a Labor government in power that has demonstrated what it has, in the past weeks. For me I will need to see some serious recognition by Rudd and members of Ms Gillards achievements and I would need to see some serious undoing of the damage done to women and the perception of women in our community. And of course the next response is, “so you want Abbott in”. There are ways to not support Abbott and still believe that I vote for something or someone who demonstrates integrity to me. Winning is not always the be all either, in the long term. The I guess its also about what you believe is winning. I think Australia lost more than a good PM. I think the negative messages, rewarding of dishonourable behaviour ,disloyalty and lets not forget the messages about gender have done irrevocable damage to the maturing of this country.
    So asking me now? I think Australia has already lost. My current grief for our country is greater than what ever I imagined I was going to feel if Abbott got into the lodge.
    So yeah ask me again in September. I am watching closing.

  108. diannaart

    Hear, hear, Kim.

    We have had 3 years of progressive reform – not perfect (nor did I agree with all of it) but 99% more achieved than in the entire 10 years of Howard.

    I am not going to forget either.

  109. Kat

    “I think the negative messages, rewarding of dishonourable behaviour ,disloyalty and lets not forget the messages about gender have done irrevocable damage to the maturing of this country.”

    Kim I so agree with all your comments, & you put it so well too. What has been lost to our country by rewarding such dishonourable behaviour, & the damage to women in general, is gut-wrenching & heart-breaking.

    The behaviour that Julia Gillard has been subjected to during her tenure as PM, is an absolute disgrace. I have been repeatedly shocked & dismayed to see this ugly side of my country. It has always been obvious that some level of mysogyny existed in Australian society, but I had no idea that it was so widespread, so ingrained, & so vicious. I feel incredibly depressed about it all.

  110. Kim Wright

    There is a big difference in the coups if that is what you want to call them. Because we don’t agree with the version of poor Kevvie he got knifed doesn’t mean we have blocked out our knowledge and understanding of that period.
    Kevin could not work with his team. He’s ego was inflated. He threw tantrums and abused staff if he didn’t get what he wanted.He didn’t consult. He courted Murdoch and the polls were down ( not that anyone here believes the polls, do they?)7 Good members resigned/ and or stood down from senior positions because they couldn’t work with him
    Ms Gillard’s team on three occasions voted her back in. Ms Gillard was a negotiator and a team player. She is held in high esteem with those who worked with her, including independents and International Leaders. She did not court Murdoch and the polls were down.

    Am always amazed at the credit they give Ms Gillard in saying she “knifed Rudd” All on her own? No one else playing their parts? No discussions/ consultations, just I’m taking your job. What a woman!

  111. mikisdad

    I’d have to agree with that Kim but the whole debate is really a diversion – a divided following for the ALP only gives Abbott’s Antediluvian Reactionaries a better chance. How about we start looking for common ground rather than continuing this (pointless?) sparring over Gillard and Rudd? (And I’m not suggesting that you’re responsible – these columns are evidence that it’s rampant.)

    If non-Labor voters read this stuff I couldn’t blame them for thinking ALP supporters are a bunch of basket cases and the Party must be one, too.

    The original point of this column / piece was to raise an issue of unprofessional conduct by a woman with particularly repugnant views and a repugnant way of expressing them. It has degenerated into a Rudd v Gillard debate which will further nothing.

  112. Kim Wright

    I’m sorry I thought this was the Independent Media Network

  113. Kim Wright

    One last point. I think the point I have been raising isn’t so much about the Rudd/ Gillard sparing, its the party’s behaviour. If people like myself aren’t able to express ourselves and how we are feeling right now after actively supporting Labor on many sites, because we are giving Antediluvian Reactionaries a better chance then so be it. I’m gone

  114. mikisdad

    Not sure I understand your reply. If I’ve said or done the wrong thing or am writing in the wrong place then I apologise. Please put me right. I’ve meant no harm, only to express a point of view.

  115. mikisdad

    Kim, clearly my views have upset you – I’m sorry. Don’t go. I was discussing with you – I thought – not condemning you or saying you shouldn’t contribute. In fact, it appears to me that we feel very similarly about things. If I’ve stuffed it up so badly in expressing myself – don’t you go – I’ll go.

  116. Kim Wright

    Perhaps this isn’t the site to allow for discussion by the seriously aggrieved, but it does need to happen. The majority of sites are encouraging the shutting down of these feelings and intelligent analysis, requesting the “lets move on now and get behind the party and not let Abbott in”. Silencing won’t be a good thing. This thread is probably not the best place, but I’m not that good with blogs. I think though the numerous comments suggest that the feelings of anger disappointment and grief and going to ooze out everywhere. If Labor wants to regain some modicum of respect again they have to find away for this to be heard, valued and addressed in some way we can all live with.

  117. Roswell

    Kim, the way I see it, the independence of this site allows people to disagree with each other. I respect your views even if I don’t agree with them 100%.

  118. Bob Evans

    Kim, the way I see it, the independence of this site allows people to disagree with each other. I respect your views even if I don’t agree with them 100%.

    Personally, I dont think Mikisdad or Kim should go.

    When the first Gillard deposing of Rudd occurred, I was devastated. But I never hit the blogosphere trying to undermine her or attack Labor over what happened. I think whether you support the Greens or Labor, regardless of who is in charge, the big picture should always remain in sight.

    DON’T let the Liberals win. We know what sort of a nightmare corporate interest world Abbott would create.

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