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Abbott – “It’s a Matter of Trust”

Those with long memories will recall that Sir Robert Menzies said that he had received, in the form of a letter, an official invitation from the South Vietnam government to participate in the war against the communist North. When the cabinet papers were released thirty years later it was disclosed that no such letter existed. 521 young Australian men lost their lives in a war that Menzies said was in our best interests.

It’s a matter of trust.

Prime Minister John Howard went to war in Iraq based on information he repeatedly said was true. That being that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.

It’s a matter of trust.

Recently in an interview he said he felt embarrassed when he had found out that there were no such weapons. Not a hint of regret that, in part, as a result of his decision 195,000 innocent people lost their lives.

It’s a matter of trust.

Politicians in general place a lot in the trust of the people. Howard went to many an election shouting the mantra ‘’who do you trust’’. Tony Abbott, despite being a pathological liar, often invokes the ‘’just trust me’’ principle as if he has some form of ownership on righteousness when in fact trust is born of truth. A concept beyond his comprehension.

Usually trust between people is formed by way of respect and a mutual understanding that each can trust the other to be honest, one to one. Put another way truth is a companion of trust and one cannot exist without the other. Trust defines the validity of truth.

But in politics somehow there is this expectation that the collective should take the politicians good will, cart Blanche.

In matters of national security where the interests of state supersede all else there is an obvious reason for secrecy. But it must be a confidentially that is obtained by government by means of a willingness to take the people into its confidence. They have to give the people reason to trust them. That means providing enough information to justify your actions.

It is not enough to say; “Just trust me”. There needs to be a transparent, evidenced and justifiable case put forward to back decisions. Otherwise the public cannot but be cynical that decisions are politically motivated. It’s about making an unpopular government and its Prime Minister more popular.

It’s a matter of trust.

On the subject of Climate Change the Prime minister, a known climate denier, who a couple of years ago said it was just crap wants us to trust his opinion on the subject over and above the facts provided by 98% of climate scientists. Just trust me. John Howard said he would rather trust his instincts than science. I wonder if Abbott will be as equally embarrassed when he finds out the truth of Climate Change as Howard is about WMD.

The same of course can be said about immigration strategy. It got to the point where Scott Morrison decided that secrecy was the best policy. That the public had no right to know anything. Just trust me.

It’s a matter of trust.

Four polls taken after the recent National Security upgrade and the decision to return to the Iraq war have thrown up remarkably different results. The independent Morgan and Essential polls have retained the status quo. That is that they have shown little variation in recent months.

However, Newspoll and Reachtell, both show an out of character swing to the Coalition. Newspoll of course is owned by Murdoch who is an avid supporter of the coalition. In the Morgan poll the only group supporting the government is the over sixty fives. They poll over all mediums (they openly disclose their methodology) where as Newspoll only cover landlines. So given that around 80% of Australians use mobile phones a healthy degree of cynicism arises about Newspoll. They ask us to trust their figures but do they find young people using land lines?

It’s a matter of trust.

Without seeming to be trivial even TV talent shows ask us to trust them. Shows like X Factor ask us to take them on trust when they reveal results without letting the viewing public know what the actual votes are. This trust thing permeates itself throughout society. In advertising, in journalism, medicine the law etc, etc. No wonder we become cynical.

It’s a matter of trust.

In terms of trust, politics and its institutions, in the public eye, have never been at a lower ebb. It is all part of the decline of our democracy. Politicians like Christopher Pyne , and others, are seemingly outraged when interviewers dare question their truthfulness. “I don’t agree with the premise of your question” you will hear him say, “Just trust me”.

trust me Tony Abbott, before being invited, decided to commit to returning to Iraq. No debate, no discussion no consultation. Just trust me. Then he decided to raise the terrorism threat under questionable circumstances. There was a likelihood of a terrorist attack. No evidence to speak of just speculation. Then we had the raids with 850 police running around doing something or other. All based on some social media chatter. Something the agencies monitor on a daily basis.

This time however it required a media presence all because the PM tells us we are under attack from someone but he can’t give us any information. Just trust me. The problem is that no one does.

We are all just so cynical of the motivation behind his decisions. Why the need for so many police. If we were really under threat why alarm the public. Why would you knowingly incite people to take out their anger against others? Why would you raise, with the politics of fear, alarm bells in the community?

The timing of the raids and the manner in which they were carried out seemed intent on whipping people into a frenzy of hysteria. It looked like a manufactured spectacle.

The result is that the inflammatory language of the brain-dead comes to the fore. People like Cory Bernardi, MPs Craig Kelly and Alex Hawke all protesting the Muslim voice. Add to that mix the unflappable Jaqui Lambie and the flames of ignorance are further fed.

You would only do it if it were to your advantage. If it enhanced the perception of you as a strong leader.

Thus far all that has come of this is that a few men are being questioned and one has been charged with some minor offenses. Only time will tell if it is just all bullshit and timed to coincide with the government’s new National Security legislation which is designed to further augment the power of a few.

After a year in power in which the government has proven its own ineptness it is now asking us to trust it with new draconian powers to thwart the risk of terror attacks.

And to make matters worse the opposition supports their every move unquestioned.

I have a healthy cynicism of our Prime Minister based not just on ideological differences but an ongoing assessment of his character.

It’s a matter of trust.

You’d have to be joking.

PS: Whilst writing this piece an event occurred in Melbourne that has been described as an act of terrorism. I recommend you read the transcript of this interview.

 

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110 comments

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  1. Wayne Turner

    Abbott even told us he can’t be trusted with what he says unless it’s written down as “gospel truth”.

    These Libs were and are NEVER to be trusted with LIES such as “budget emergency” and “debt crisis”.A budget based on LIES,puppets for big business even when they pretend otherwise,and they have NO time for FACTS & NO time for EXPERTS eg: Their so called climate change policy.

    The LYING Party.Should be called:-
    Conservative
    Racists
    Against
    Policies & poor people.

    AKA CRAP.

  2. Wayne Turner

    Sadly the opposition support it because they are GUTLESS,too afraid of the MSM,the Libs,and the public who they think would turn against Labor.IE: Poll driven,with a GUTLESS ME TOO,LACK OF SUBSTANCE BORE in Shorten. 🙁

  3. stephentardrew

    Oh Labor, Labor, Labor, where for art thou Labor?
    Hm…. not under this bush or behind this tree me thinks.
    Hibernating?
    Maybe yet it seems summer is on the move.
    Rigor mortise gotcha tongue mates?
    The silence is deafening.
    Wait, wait wait; shush, shush gotta count the numbers cause you can’t bet against the narrow minded crazies can you?
    You know lies to power and all that.
    Bit of a conundrum when the left leg should, by rights, go that way yet the right compels you to snivel and grovel to the ignorant plebes.
    Careful because years of atrophy will send you stiff with inaction.
    Oops forgot you are already dying a slow and compromised death.
    Now where did I put that bag of courage.
    Oh well leave them alone and they will come home wagging their fails behind them.

  4. bill purvis

    There is no doubt that IS are an evil mob of bastards. Granted this whole Iraq fiasco was created by the second Iraq War based on lies. Given the Libs tell lies as so adequately supported by this article the moral quandary is do we intervene to prevent needless slaughter which we contributed to by previous interventions? Can this intervention right a previous wrong? It is morally perplexing as this intervention will lead to more innocent casualties as all wars do. War does not really provide solutions only create more problems.

  5. stephentardrew

    Bill:

    I would say that history is screaming once again in the face of failure yet let not that turn us from repeating forevermore the acts of incitement that only make things worse. But we ordinary folk just get carried along by a media machine driven by their crazies and our crazies compelled by irrational and illogical ideological motives. Wherefore shall we go without the foundations of reason and logic? Not much going on here to lead us to the promised land of reconciliation and resolution. Oh well another twenty years of this carp sounds not so bad does it?

  6. bjkelly1958

    The beleaguered Australian people, sick if Labor infighting and accepting the Big Lie fallacy, trusted Tony Abbott and the treatment he has handed out to those Australians has been appalling. If they continue to trust him, they are doing themselves and the rest of a grave disservice.
    The howls of racist discord echoing around the nation at present is a clear indication that those how view the world through the eyes of Jones, Hadley and Bolt are still of a great mass. It is they, who have their bigotry assuaged by the LNP government ministers, that will continue to trust Tony. It is lamentable that the view put forward from this element, large as it is, this skewed view is what is presented to the world as how Australia generally thinks.
    Trust Tony Abbott? They sure do.

  7. Kaye Lee

    If having Tony Abbott, George Brandis, Julie Bishop and Scott Morrison in charge of my security is supposed to make me rest easy, it ain’t working. Not content with poking ant’s nests, they now want to bomb them.

  8. Mary Mannison

    To quote the article above, “Recently in an interview he [John Howard] said he felt embarrassed when he had found out that there were no such weapons [WMD’s]. Not a hint of regret that, in part, as a result of his decision 195,000 innocent people lost their lives.” I agree with John Lord’s amazement…Embarrassed? An act of contrition is called for, some form of self-inflicted punishment, an abject apology; or at least prosecution of these war criminals–Bush, Blair, and Howard. But no, now we have a different trio dancing the war jig.

  9. Don Winther

    Remember you can trust your Televisions advice.

  10. Wayne Turner

    Well said Bill.

    More war to fix previous war,tends to lead to more war and more problems.The dangeous cycle continues… 🙁

  11. Roswell

    What’s there to trust?

  12. Annie Byam

    Again … a great article John. Thank you …….

    I did go to the interview by Leigh Sales of Anthony Byrne. He spoke so very well. From the transcript :

    “:ANTHONY BYRNE: Well there have been, in the previous government, deradicalisation programs and community harmony programs, if you want. And I think if there’s one thing that I would say, Leigh, is that we’ve got to do – rather than pull ourselves apart, which is what ISIS wants us to do, we’ve got to come together, and if there are any further programs that we can develop to encourage and include people, regardless of what faith they might be, that is going to significantly reduce the chance of radicalisation. ”

    “………. rather than pull ourselves apart, which is what ISIS wants us to do, we’ve got to come together ……..”

    And just who is right at the front – aiding and abetting any form of terrorism by ISIS in our country. Assisting them with continuous fear tactics, divisiveness, threat to health ( climate change is crap ), threat to health for the elderly and poor, threat to living standards and job opportunities, threat to our freedoms ( of many things ) ….. and attempting to seriously weaken the stability of our nation, by creating a ‘sense’ of division – across the board ….. WHO ?

    He need not be named – we know who he is !!

    So much for ” just trust me ” ….

    =====

    ( Frankly, I don’t think the Senate will allow him to go any further with his vile plans ).

  13. June M Bullivant OAM

    The problem today is that lack of trust and lack of faith in politicians in all levels of government is rife In Australia. Being voted into Parliament of Council does not give that individual the right to denigrate the community. The lack of compassion for the people, the lack of transparent process, the lack of fair and equitable treatment of issues when it comes to decision making is on show in every area of our country.

    This has now transferred to people who would not normally go and fight for their rights, they are going out of their way, donating their time to try and save their homes, their farms, their heritage, their environment and the list goes on. Many people who were not strictly “green” are now out fighting.

    The decision makers are carrying on their arrogant way, decisions that are affecting peoples lives. The army is about to revolt. Trust is a dirty word in the community, when you hear people outwardly discussing politicians there is a problem.

  14. mars08

    I’ve posted this extract before:

    “What no one seemed to notice,” said a colleague of mine, a philologist, “was the ever widening gap, after 1933, between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know, it doesn’t make people close to their government to be told that this is a people’s government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing, to do with knowing one is governing.

    “What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security….

    Once again, I strongly urge people to read the whole thing. The parallels with today’s Australia are disturbing…

    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

  15. Neil of Sydney

    Speaking of trust, Wayne Swan said the 2013 budget would be in deficit by $18B. The results are now out. It is actually a $48B deficit.

    It was inflated by $9B because of the loan to the RBA.

    But Swan is still out by a factor of 2. Actually not bad for Wayne Swan who never came close to his forecasts.

    http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/budget-deficit-soars-to-485bn/story-fn59niix-1227070190882?nk=3b56f48f22327a1cd5f6aecabf75f735

    “THE final federal budget deficit for 2013/14 has come in at $48.5 billion, $30 billion larger than Labor forecast last year.

  16. trevor

    Lack of trust in todays political class of entitlement gougers and Abbott applauders.

    The Australian electorate are right to distrust what the political class offer.

    It’s only in the heat of the election with hip pocket politics on display that one gets to see why the story is as it is on trust.

    A definately greedy class of voters and self interested hucksters appealing to the lowest dominator in a game of elect me which is crafted and carefully orchastrated to win the party political charade a further episode of abuse, deciept, ineptitude and illegality.

    Occassionally there is virtuous policy outcomes but there is a quota of those as it can’t be allowed to raise prospects highly enough for meaningful, long lasting beneficial change for the ordinary voter.

    Best to keep them under the yoke of freedom and whatever other platitude is politically sellable.

    Sack Abbott and his rabble of Liarbril’s masquerading as MP’s.

  17. mars08

    Neil of Sydney…. I’ll put this as tactfully as I possibly can given the circumstances… just take your facile, boring, juvenile, worthless bullshit… and F&@K OFF. You are a clueless TOOL with nothing to contribute. Get back under your slimy rock… where you belong.

  18. Neil of Sydney

    Why??

    Wayne Swan should be in prison for his false statement and lies.

    In his first budget he promised a $20B surplus and it ended up being a $20B deficit. A $40B turn around. Last year Swan said the 2013 budget would be in deficit by $18B. Actually not bad for Swan who was only out by a factor of 2.

    Wayne Swan and the ALP are a suitable topic for a post on “its a matter of trust”

  19. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    Chris Bowen’s pre-election economic statement forecast a deficit of $30 billion, backed up in PEFO.

    The MYEFO released by the Government states that since the 2013 PEFO, policy decisions, which includes spending and revenue decisions, has had a $13.7 billion negative impact on the underlying cash balance over the forward estimates.

    In relation to spending, the MYEFO said: “Essential steps have been taken to address unresolved issues inherited from the former Government, which have contributed to the deterioration in the budget position since the 2013 PEFO.”

    This includes:
    •spending measures associated with repealing the carbon tax ($2.8 billion over four years);
    •land transport infrastructure programs ($5.6 billion over four years);
    •implementation of border protection policies ($2.1 billion over four years of which government says $1.2 billion is directly attributable to insufficient funding provided previously for the PNG and Nauru facilities);
    •a boost to funding for the Students First package ($1.2 billion over four years); and
    •an $8.8 billion grant paid to the Reserve Bank of Australia.

    The MYEFO said that over the forward estimates a $54.3 billion deterioration in the projected combined deficit since the PEFO was caused by “parameter and other variations” changes.

    These included:
    •changes to the parameters for determining tax receipts, which will result in the government receiving $37.8 billion less over the forward estimates than forecast in the PEFO;
    •a change to the terms of trade methodology, reducing economic growth forecasts, causing a $2 billion hit to the bottom line over the forward estimates;
    •a change in the projected unemployment rate, leading to higher benefits payments totalling $3.7 billion extra

    “A softening in the economic outlook has resulted in significantly lower nominal GDP, which has largely driven the reduction in tax receipts by more than $37 billion over the forward estimates,” the MYEFO said.

    Downgraded forecasts for economic growth underlies the doubling of the deficit.

    Mr Bowen accurately quoted changes totalling $68 billion in the Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook.

    The MYEFO forecasts a budget deficit twice as large as it was in the PEFO. The economic assumptions in MYEFO are different from those used in the PEFO, and there is spending in the MYEFO that was not in the previous forecasts.

  20. mars08

    And there it is…

    Okay folks, I’m sure you all realise that NoS is a superficial fool, and repetitive stooge.

    He is the worst kind of tool… a flimsy, useless one.

    Please DON’T engage with him. It’s pointless.

  21. Doubtingthomas

    Personally I ignore the skewed polls that appear in the Murdoch and similarly aligned press – The Morgan poll 2 party preferred (as of writing this post) shows ALP at 54.5% and the LNP at 45.5%. In fact the LNP have dropped a 0.5% since the last poll. Funny Morgan’s poll with its integrity and credibility seems to be at odds with the MSM’s view that Abbott is shooting ahead – so much for taking us to war to get a bounce in the polls!
    As for trusting this particular Government – not while my bum points to the ground!
    As for trusting the previous mob – well at least they weren’t openly a duplicitous and lying bunch and in the main worked for Australia

  22. Kaye Lee

    mars08,

    Engagement with Neil is impossible so don’t concern yourself. Using him as a straight man to counter conservative lies is however so easy it is nearly cruel. I consider him practice. My words aren’t for him, they are for others who meet similar people.

  23. Neil of Sydney

    “Chris Bowen’s pre-election economic statement forecast a deficit of $30 billion, backed up in PEFO”

    But Wayne Swan said in his 2013 May budget the deficit would be $18B. So are you saying i should not trust Swan? Well i agree with you.

    And what is the big deal about the PEFO?? It was not that long ago so most probably is more accurate.

    Wayne Swan should be in prison for SIX years of lies and falsehoods and misrepresentation.

  24. Möbius Ecko

    Since getting into power the woeful and deceitful Libs have added one billion dollars to the interest bill. That’s directly due to their economic management and nothing else. That’s before Abbott added ~$500m pa in his chest beating to make him look good. Indeed the cost to the Australian taxpayer purely on promoting this much despised man must be enormous.

  25. Kaye Lee

    Neil, when the Coalition took over the gross debt was about $280 billion. It is now $339.386 billion and the projected end‑of‑year face value of CGS on issue is expected to reach $362 billion. Since coming to power over twelve months ago the Coalition have been borrowing over $160 million per day and that is, as ME points out, before we went to war abroad ($500 million a year) and at home ($630 million extra for home grown policing).

  26. mars08

    Never argue with a fool. He’ll bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.

  27. Neil of Sydney

    Yep. The Labor Party created a runaway train which may not be stopped.

    We were paying no debt interest in 2007. That is until Rudd/Gillard was elected.

  28. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    When the Coalition left office in 2007, gross debt was $59 billion. Are you telling me they weren’t paying the interest on that?

  29. M-R

    Neil of Sydney is totally representative of what has sunk me deep in depression: there are simply too many of these rusted-ons.

  30. mars08

    Prime Minister John Howard went to war in Iraq based on information he repeatedly said was true…

    The slimy, scheming little bastard should get 700 years behind bars for encouraging and launching a needless war of aggression.

    During the Nuremberg Tribunal in 1945-1946 the Court declared:

    “To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime, it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.”

    The prosecution argued that planning and initiating aggressive war as the ultimate crime. Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, the head of the American prosecution staff, stated: “launching a war of aggression is a crime and that no political or economic situation can justify it.”

    Did you note the “…supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole.” bit?

    So….. any and all crimes and suffering related to, and as a consequence of, launching a war of aggression will be attributed to those initiating that war. Howard should be prosecuted as a war criminal.

  31. John Lord

    Neil of Sydney is typical of those who deliberately change the subject to suit there own purpose. Kaye in her inimitable fashion suitably put him in his place. However pampering to him any further is disrespectful to writers who write on a given subject in the expectation that people will stick to the topic at hand.

  32. rossleighbrisbane

    Is Neil one of the trolls paid by the Liberal Party or is just an idiot for free? He confuses assertion for argument and abuse for rhetoric?
    PS – Neil, the “h” in rhetoric is silent like Abbott on why he left the priesthood!

  33. Neil of Sydney

    John Lord

    I was commenting on a matter of trust. Wayne Swan predictions were found to be wrong again. His predicted deficit was published today out by a factor of two. Not bad for Swan. Why should i trust Labor?

    “When the Coalition left office in 2007, gross debt was $59 billion. Are you telling me they weren’t paying the interest on that?

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/its-the-debt-not-the-spending-why-the-budget-is-bleeding-20140503-zr3mo.html

    “In 2002-03, when the Howard government no longer needed government debt, it commissioned a review into whether it should bother continuing to issue government bonds. The review concluded that financial markets need government bonds in order to price private sector loans. Without them, interest rates would be higher. And financial institutions are required by regulators to hold some of their capital in extremely safe assets. Without government bonds they would be struggling. So the Howard government undertook to ensure it always borrowed at least $25 billion whether it needed it or not. It invested what it borrowed in shares and the like, allowing it to boast that it had no net debt while maintaining a gross debt”

    So yes Howard/Costello were paying interest on the $59B gross debt but net debt was minus 3.8% of GDP in 2007. The Howard govt did not need to lend the money but it did so anyway to keep the bond market open and invested the money so net interest bill was in our favour.

  34. Michael Taylor

    Neil is a complete idiot and I don’t know why I tolerate him here.

  35. John Lord

    I think he needs a manager. Hes been handling himself to long.

  36. mars08

    Some might still find the traditional slapping down of the Neil amusing.

    More and more I’m seeing it as a tedious distraction which ruins the flow of a discussion. The forum ends up choking on his bullcrap. And I suspect that is his sole intent!

  37. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    “net interest bill was in our favour”

    Net interest payments in 2006-07 were $23 million higher than anticipated at the 2007-08 Budget. Having peaked at $8.4 billion in 1996-97, net interest payments declined to $198 million in 2006-07

  38. Kaye Lee

    I mean no disrespect John. This article was about trust. One of the problems with Coalition voters is that they DO trust what they read in publications like the Australian. They DO trust what Tony and Joe tell them. If, however, you consult source documents like the budget then it becomes apparent that Neil is trusting sources (and people) that are telling him crap.

    I do realise Neil is as annoying as a mosquito and will offer nothing in the way of commentary about the current government. For that reason, and out of deference to those who are finding the buzzing too much to bear, I will disengage.

  39. Neil of Sydney

    Ah yes trust. Why should anybody trust the ALP?? Beats me.

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2014-15/content/bp1/html/bp1_bst10-05.htm

    Table 5
    Net Debt Net interest payments
    1996‑97 96,281 9,489
    2007‑08 -44,820 -1,015

    We were receiving $1B/year in net interest in 2007-08.

    I do not trust the ALP. Never have never will.

    By the way people should read Peter martins article. It explains why the Howard govt decided to borrow money even though they didn’t need to.

  40. Michael Taylor

    If people care to hunt through the archives at Cafe Whispers and search through the thousands of comments from Neil they will come across many where he has called Peter Martin an idiot. But now he quotes him!

  41. John Fraser

    <

    The Battle of Fromelles (1916) was reported by the British as :

    "Yesterday evening, south of Armentières, we carried out some important raids on a front of two miles in which Australian troops took part. About 140 German prisoners were captured"

    The Aussie were less than impressed. (see below , * "battle losses").

    The Sydney Morning Herald reported the Battle of Fromelles as a "minor setback" …. rest assured 100 years later the SMH will continue to defend their position by giving British author Peter Barton pride of place ahead of Charles Bean.

    One can either believe the "dull" but exceptionally brave (recommended for the Military Cross at Gallipoli) Journalist Charles Bean or Peter Barton "reporting" 90 years later.

    Charles Bean reported many of the lies that the British and Australian Conservative parties via the press media were telling the Australian public.

    * "The battle was responsible for one of the greatest losses of Australian lives in 24 hours, although surpassed by the Battle of Bullecourt in 1917"

    Links :

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fromelles

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Bean

    Now Australia has a pommie P.M. and a liar to beat the very best of liars.

  42. stephentardrew

    Neil got my fingers in my ears, hands over my eyes and voice mumbling something about an obnoxious fool who cannot count to save himself. Our Kaye eats you alive, spits you out, yet you come back with more lies. Don’t ya know when you are not wanted. Be good boy and off to bed now and don’t tell anymore fibs because judgment day is coming. Don’t want to be in the wrong line do we?

  43. Kaye Lee

    At NO time during Howard’s term did we have positive net interest. The years showing positive net interest are 76-77 and then not again until 07-08 and 08-09.

  44. John Fraser

    <

    "Neil of Sydney" is a savant.

  45. Kaye Lee

    If I had the choice between the government running a surplus and me having a job I know which I would choose. A surplus is an accounting term that makes not one iota of difference to my life whereas without a job my life would be enormously different. How odd it is that the Coalition is able to get people to agree to diminish their lifestyle for the sake of a number on a piece of paper.

  46. John Fraser

    <

    @Kaye lee

    A surplus is what you have when you are employed.

    Unemployed is when you have a deficit.

    Fcuked if I know why Hockey can't figure it out.

  47. marion

    My family and friends have said no more newspapers, no more watching t.v. news far too much lies and propaganda . the only way for us to enjoy our lives is to stay away from all the negative crap this government dishes out

  48. John Fraser

    <

    @marion

    You life will be completed when you attack the American Murdoch at every opportunity.

  49. sir pistofalot-More

    We are being Led away from the Original Statement ” Who do you trust ” Most certainly It is Not This Delusional Liar Masquerading as Our PM, Time after Time His Lies to Australia have Been Highlighted To Everyone Except Murdoch Press People and Media shock Jock stooges, I really feel embarrassed the The Fellow Liberal Mps having to Justify his Lies to the Ordinary electors of Australia With a Straight Face, it is Obvious to Everyone that Tony Abbott Is not worthy to be our Pm Everything He Does is a Stunt, Not One Visionary statement for Australias future, Coal Is Yesterdays Fuel, Most Countrys are Changing toward Clean energy Poor Tony Brainless Buffoon

  50. Neil of Sydney

    “yet you come back with more lies

    What lies?? The only liar is you stephentardrew

    Wayne Swan is also the liar. I can only imagine what you people would be saying if it was a Coalition Treasurer who made the predictions Swan did.

    How anybody can trust the ALP is a mystery to me. It just appears to be a totally corrupt and dishonest political party with no ethics or morals.

    “then not again until 07-08

    07-08 was Costello’s last budget wasn’t it?. Net debt was -3.8% of GDP and net interest was positive $1B. I am sure Costello should get the credit for that. Anyway it would have gone positive sometime between 06-07/07-08.

    Even Koukoulas says Costello had $29B net in the bank when he lost office so Howard must have been getting positive interest payments.

  51. John Fraser

    <

    Murdochs Newspoll :

    "SUPPORT for the Coalition has risen to a five-month high as voters show their approval of Tony Abbott’s handling of national ­security matters, with a six-point leap in the Prime Minister’s ­personal satisfaction rating taking it to the highest level since ­November."

    Roy Morgan Research :

    "Prime Minister Tony Abbott’s decision to commit 600 Australian troops to Iraq has failed to boost the Government in today’s Morgan Poll. This is unusual as the Morgan Poll has shown on past occasions that external security threats usually favour the incumbent Government. This was the case in early 2003 in the run-up to Iraq War and also in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

    “In addition, Prime Minister Abbott lifted the Australian terrorism alert to high for the first time ten days ago (September 12, 2014) just before this polling period began. However, in contrast to what the Morgan Poll has shown in the past the L-NP has received no ‘poll boost’ in the past fortnight with the ALP (54.5%, up 0.5%) increasing their two-party preferred lead over the L-NP (45.5%, down 0.5%)."

  52. John Fraser

    <

    If I thought that "Neil of Sydney" knew what infrastructure was …… I would ask him to name some that Howard built on his way to being the second longest bludger in the Office of Prime Minister of Australia.

    Really sad about "Neil of Sydney".

    Still its always best to humour him …. wouldn't want him beating up on his plastic girlfriend.

  53. Kaye Lee

    Essential shows 2PP Labor 53% Coalition 47%

  54. Matters Not

    Yes there are ‘facts and figures’, but the real insights are always about the meanings given to same. And the reasons why.

  55. Neil of Sydney

    “I would ask him to name some that Howard built

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2005-06/ministerial/html/dotars-19.htm

    AusLink

    Australian Government investment in rail and road infrastructure in 2005-06 is $2.2 billion — a figure that will grow even higher in future years as the Australian Government continues to implement AusLink, the National Transport Plan. AusLink has radically transformed how Australia plans and implements the rollout of essential transport infrastructure, directly linking rail and road improvements with industry needs and growth………………….

    Roads To Recovery Programme extended

    The 2005-06 Budget confirms that the Australian Government will invest $1.35 billion in the AusLink Roads to Recovery programme — a vital injection of funds that is needed to build the future of Australia’s local road system. The Australian Government will spend $340.6 million on the programme in 2005-06……………

    AusLink Black Spot Programme

    The Australian Government will extend the AusLink Black Spot Programme until June 2008.

  56. John Fraser

    <

    @Neil of Sydney

    Is that it …. ha ha ha.

    Keep up the "good" work.

    And have a look in your fridge … I have left a little present there for you.

  57. mars08

    Kaye Lee:

    If I had the choice between the government running a surplus and me having a job I know which I would choose. A surplus is an accounting term that makes not one iota of difference to my life whereas without a job my life would be enormously different…

    EXACTLY!

    And that’s what a semi-competent opposition should be explaining time after time after time…

    Getting caught up in the minutiae of surplus vs deficit is distracting and simplistic. It is fancy geek speak for the technocrats and administrators.

    What the electorate MUST understand it that there are times when the govt must spend more than it earns. Just like almost any household or company. The “all debt is bad” mantra is without substance. The voters MUST understand that this is simply unavoidable in some cases.

    To fail to get this message to the electorate is to have them fall prey to the facile bullshit that the LNP has been spouting for half a decade. It means that this govt can continue to use a Labor budget deficit of any size to clobber the opposition into silence. Worse still, it remains a weapon in the Coalitions bag of tricks when it falls back into opposition. This foolish weapon must be disarmed, so it is useless to both major parties.

    Labor MUST get back to explaining that global events in recent years made a surplus impossible and undesirable. Any idiot should be able to understand that. Except our Neil, of course… he’s a very special kind of idiot.

  58. Choppa

    “If I had the choice between the government running a surplus and me having a job I know which I would choose. A surplus is an accounting term that makes not one iota of difference to my life whereas without a job my life would be enormously different…:

    How exactly does the government running a deficit keep you employed? Are you saying that the government should keep pumping money into non profitable organisations and programs to keep those involved employed? You can keep borrowing money to prop up things – but there comes a point where people stop giving you money with that sort of careless thinking. As you will find in european countries that ran deficits as a hobby – it made it nearly impossible to borrow additional money to keep services and programs running. When they cut these programs many more people lost jobs than found them and basic social support disappeared. Aren’t these the things you think trying to balance the books is ruining? Backwards thinking.

    How about that mining tax – which if it was a matter of trust would’ve by now almost paid off the NBN according to Labor’s promises and most of us would have it….. if they actually received close to the amounts they said they would from the tax…and the NBN didnt become the comical mess only a labor project could become. When something happens that reduces the tax intake, like an extremely predictable plummet in iron ore price – what would you prefer – the mining companies slashing staff numbers to maintain profits and thus a decent tax contribution, so that you benefit from it? Or would it be OK if the government handed back the tax and more to the companies to keep those employed? Why is the government responsible for keeping some people employed and not others?

    “Labor MUST get back to explaining that global events in recent years made a surplus impossible and undesirable. Any idiot should be able to understand that. Except our Neil, of course… he’s a very special kind of idiot.”

    There was a 6 month period of uncertainty in Australia – about 5 years ago. Only a special idiot would think that other countries going into recession is a good enough excuse to spend every cent and more of a once in a lifetime revenue boom rather than put some aside for the eventual end of the boom. That wasnt a time to spend more than it earns – that was a time for careful spending and saving, something the libs understood, something you obviously find hard to grasp. Just think – the economy wouldve still been the darling of the world with low unemployment….and the libs wouldnt need to make any cuts!

  59. Kaye Lee

    ” there comes a point where people stop giving you money with that sort of careless thinking”

    Aside from us having a AAA credit rating we are a sovereign currency – we CAN’T run out of money. And yes, government spending keeps people in jobs as that money circulates through the economy. You truly have no understanding of public finances choppa. We have never had zero debt and never will.

  60. John Lord

    All the talk about the need for budget surpluses doesn’t register with the historical facts.

    Since 1945, significant budget surpluses have been achieved only rarely: once by Ben Chifley, three times by Bob Hawke, and eight times by John Howard, who shared another with Rudd, who was elected during the 2007-08 fiscal year. That is, the Menzies, Holt, Gorton, McMahon and Fraser governments managed only a few, small surpluses. So much for the claim about the Coalition’s Fiscal management.

    The surpluses by Howard came from an unprecedented, never to be repeated mining boom and the sale of public assets. Let’s keep it in perspective.

  61. Neil of Sydney

    “The surpluses by Howard came from an unprecedented, never to be repeated mining boom and the sale of public assets.

    WRONG. See it is comments like that why i do not trust Labor supporters. I have never seen a people make so many false statements. If Labor supporters tell the truth it appears to be an aberration.

    Mining boom did not start until 2004 and maybe even a little latter. He are the commodity prices

    http://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/commodity-prices.html

    Sale of public assets were not put into the budget as revenue. Public asset sales were used to pay off debt.

    ASSET SALES WERE NOT PUT INTO THE BUDGET AS REVENUE.

    And you wonder why i do not trust you people.

  62. Kaye Lee

    Between 1998-99 and 2008-09, the mining boom delivered an unprecedented 75 per cent rise in Australia’s terms of trade.

    Government asset sales between 1996 and 2007 worth $72 billion wiped the net debt out entirely with $16 billion to spare.

    In 1986, household debts amounted to 46 per cent of disposable incomes. Twenty years later, that ratio had climbed to 152 per cent – the highest figure in the world.

    In its last five years, the Howard government spent $250 billion, including $133 billion in new spending and $117 billion in tax cuts.

  63. Truth Seeker

    And for a bit of light relief, from the madness that is our current political state, I’ve just posted my latest poem in the “Said the Abbott…” series

    Said the Abbott to the Bishop… War!

    …………………………………..

    Said the Abbott to the Bishop

    It’s a good time for a war

    Cos the budget’s in the crapper

    And my polls are through the floor

    So just keep hassling Putin

    While I look towards the east

    Cos they’re offering a smorgasbord

    A veritable feast
    ————————————————

    The rest can be read here 😉

    Said the Abbott to the Bishop…War!

    Cheers 😀

  64. Neil of Sydney

    “Between 1998-99 and 2008-09, the mining boom delivered an unprecedented 75 per cent rise in Australia’s terms of trade

    Did you click on the RBA link i provided?? The mining boom did not start until 2004 and then it exploded under Rudd/Gillard. Same goes for terms of trade

    http://www.rba.gov.au/chart-pack/images/15-commodity-prices/15br-tot-small.gif?accessed=2014-09-26-07-48-19

    Terms of trade and commodity prices where the best for 100 years under Rudd/Gillard.

    Who do you trust?? Well i don’t trust the ALP or its supporters.

  65. Kaye Lee

    Neil,

    What do you think of Hockey’s budget?

  66. Neil of Sydney

    The budget??

    One comment i have about the budget is that it shows what happened from 1996-2007 was unique.

    Just look at the outrage and squeals from ALP supporters when a few small cuts are made. ALP supporters only care about themselves and their stomachs. Fill me up with goodies they proclaim. Let us go into deficit and eat drink and be merry.

  67. Kaye Lee

    Thanks for that in depth analysis. I take it you haven’t bothered reading it.

  68. jagman48

    Why oh why do we let the idiot Neil from where ever highjack the debate once again. He does it all the time with his dribble.

  69. The AIM Network

    Jagman48, Neil’s days here are numbered.

  70. diannaart

    NOS

    That is hilarious. Well, it would be, but when I consider the reasons – really very sad.

    Its the keywords isn’t it?

    “Budget” you start spouting about the Howard era.

    “Lies” a selective list of ALP politicians.

    “Abbott” off you go on how awful the Gillard/Rudd years were.

    I could go on… however, the truth will always out, you poorly written piece of software – you need an upgrade, at least a 2013 OS, with additional updates that you need to bring you into 2014. You will begin to function a little better by working in the present… however, Neil, your future… well unless you increase your memory to something beyond a few K’s – you will not keep up. It is already approaching the end of September and before you know it, 2015 looms – your software simply won’t make it. Please upgrade now… before it is too late.

  71. All's Not Lost

    Neil,

    You’ve got guts, I’ll give you that. These people eat their own.

    “ASSET SALES WERE NOT PUT INTO THE BUDGET AS REVENUE.”

    That’s true enough, but it’s not strictly what John Lord said, nor does it really matter. The asset sales enabled the surpluses to be created by not having to find money for debt through other revenue streams, or are you arguing Costello would have produced surpluses anyway?

  72. Neil of Sydney

    “or are you arguing Costello would have produced surpluses anyway?”

    Yep. Costello had a surplus in his second budget well before asset sales reduced the debt.

    Costello ran $110B in surplus budgets. Asset sales were not put into the budget as revenue. That is a little known fact otherwise there would have been three huge surplus budgets when T1, T2 and T3 were sold. They were used to pay off debt which did reduce the interest bill which would have been in the budget. Asset sales were also used to start the FF.

    In summary Costello paid off $96B of govt debt, started a $80B Future Fund plus other funds and left $29B in the bank. To do that you need to find $205B.

    $96B + $80B +$29B = $205B

    Asset sales of $72B don’t even come close to finding the $205B necessary to do all what Costello did.

  73. Neil of Sydney

    So what?? I said this

    “Costello had a surplus in his second budget well before asset sales reduced the debt
    .”

    You are as dumb as the people who post here.

    I noticed this asset sale by Keating in your link

    June 1994
    CSL (former Commonwealth Serum Laboratories) Public Share Offer.

    The Commonwealth got $300 million for Keatings fire sale of CSL. CSL is now worth $20B.

    ASSET SALES WERE NOT PUT INTO COSTELLO”S BUDGETS AS REVENUE

    GET IT?????

  74. All's Not Lost

    Sigh.

  75. mars08

    Oh… just screw it!!! What a waste of bandwidth!

    Just had a look at how this discussion was going…. and I see that Neil has, once again, sent it off the rails.

    “Never argue with a fool. He’ll bring you down to his level, then beat you with experience.”

    If theaim.com truly wants it’s readers to abandon this forum, then you have found the winning formula right here!

  76. Rob031

    Hello Neil of Sydney. May I remind you that the Coalition holds the reins of government these days. They are no longer in opposition. Why is it that you choose to deflect what this particular comment thread is about, viz. Trust?

    You appear to be obsessed with the previous government in rather the same manner that a jilted lover is often obsessed with the person who jilted them. Isn’t it about time that you moved on to the here and now? If not, perhaps you should engage the services of a trained psychologist, have your GP review your meds or whatever it is that seems to be keeping you stuck in the past like a damaged record.

    Please try to stay on-topic as this is mainly about the current government. It’s been in power for over 12 months now. Also please try to listen better.

  77. Anne Byam

    To whom all it may concern :

    ” More and more I’m seeing it as a tedious distraction which ruins the flow of a discussion. The forum ends up choking on his bullcrap. And I suspect that is his sole intent! ”

    AND

    “Why oh why do we let the idiot Neil from where ever highjack the debate once again. He does it all the time with his dribble.”

    ——–

    Because we respond. It is IMPOSSIBLE for Neil of S, to hijack anything, IMPOSSIBLE for Neil of S to ruin the flow of a discussion. …. Any discussion. Unless we permit it.

    All we have to do is totally … TOTALLY ignore him. Turn our backs. Do not answer or defend – EVER.

    Let him spruke as much as he wants …. he will eventually tire of talking only to himself.

  78. jimhaz99

    [The surpluses by Howard came from an unprecedented, never to be repeated mining boom]

    It was the combination of private debt rocketing (pointless dead money for housing), the GST (produced higher revenues than expected), asset sales and mining investment from OS.

    Nothing actually construction.

    Mining investment is not constructive – it is owned by OS companies and just creates overproduction leading to lower prices, as we now clearly see.

    The GST is not constructive – it makes tax agents out of small business and hurts the less well off who cant spend OS much more than the wealthy. Also harms tourism and the extra time lost for management angers small business voters – making them look and vote for “small government”.

    Selling off income producing assets like CSL is simply a transfer of recurrent profit potential to private hands.

    Private debt for housing though is the worst of all – a clear cut conspiracy to steal workers money and shift it into the most evil of the rich hands – US bankers (and whatever mafia like group is behind them – one just had to hear the cretins “I know nothing” approach when questioned about the musical chairs game that lead to yet unfinished GFC).

    It is a rigged game – unfortunately it is a world wide phenomenon as the masses ARE stupid and soaked to the brim with false economic memes promoted by asset owners.

  79. abbienoiraude

    Thank you Jack Lord for this important piece. I appreciate your clarifying the situation as we find it in our Australia that I no longer recognise.

    NofS is a familiar, boring, cracked-record of a commenter I recognise from New Matilda. Every time I see his moniker I just fast forward to someone with a bit of compassion, knowledge, experience and facts.

    I would ask one question re ‘trust’ under Abbott et al;
    At what cost are the Australian people being so easily distracted by the horror of yet another CONservative war?

    (Eg Disability Pensioners are now having their income frozen till 2018. How are we suppose to pay for increasing doctors/specialists bills, travel expenses here in country NSW aka fuel, and rises in rates, insurances and costs of living?
    Trust be damned!!)

  80. Annie Byam

    http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/consumer-security/terror-laws-clear-senate-enabling-entire-australian-web-to-be-monitored-and-whistleblowers-to-be-jailed-20140926-10m8ih.html

    No doubt most of you will have seen this ….. but for those who haven’t … ? ,,, read the article carefully.

    I am utterly gob-smacked.

    Particularly, as this ( as reported in the article ) was put forward by the Senate, and voted on 44 to 12 in favour last night ( Thursday ).

    I am not sure at all of the following, but apparently it is only the Senate who can make amendments to a current piece of legislation ???

    It goes now to the H of R where ” passage is all but guaranteed on Tuesday at the earliest. “

  81. Lawriejay

    “Prime Minister John Howard went to war in Iraq based on information he repeatedly said was true. That being that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction.”
    UN Weapons Inspectors advised the world that there were no WMDs.
    The only political leader in the world telling the truth about the matter was dispicable Sadam Hussen?

  82. Annie Byam

    To mars08 …. ref. your comment and link : [ September 25, 2014 at 4:45 pm ]

    Having now read the link to the entire excerpt from an obviously brilliant book ( “They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45” ) …..

    …….. I am left chilled to the bone.

    You observed the parallels were ‘disturbing’. You are damned right about that.

    There were many ‘quotes’ in that excerpt that I wanted to copy and paste. But I didn’t ….. it would have taken up far too much space on this site – as comment.

    Suffice to say, it is waaaay too close for comfort, to what is happening here – now ….. and is downright frightening – ( not even an adequate word at all, to describe the actuality of today’s Australia ).

    The horrid concept had crossed my mind before, but to see it written in such a way, verbalised …. as such ….. is more than I can personally contemplate, at this moment – .

    “……… Yet we do nothing ” …………..

    We are in mortal danger of losing our beautiful country. God ( or whoever you believe in ) help us, to stand up and be counted – before it is too late.

    The Labor Party is currently asking for help in emails – asking for suggestions from their following . Surprising ? Not really, considering what they face, day in, day out when Parliament is sitting, or even when it’s not.

    They ask – I am going to reply – in no uncertain terms. I would suggest everyone here do the same. …… Please !

  83. Mensor Hacker

    Hello Neil of Sydney. You have some interesting images on your computer. Linux? Shellshock? Do either of these terms mean something to you? Oh, well. All will be known soon to the relevant authorities. Have a nice day.

  84. Choppa

    “Aside from us having a AAA credit rating we are a sovereign currency – we CAN’T run out of money. And yes, government spending keeps people in jobs as that money circulates through the economy. You truly have no understanding of public finances choppa. We have never had zero debt and never will.”

    Kaye Lee – im going to make this short as its off topic. You are saying we cant run out of money because we can print as much as we want….go into as much debt as we want – and the credit agencies, who have asked us to reduce our debt and return to surplus, will keep us at a AAA rating? I hope the oil and gas companies jump on board this theory – cause you do know our polymer money is derived from hydrocarbons? Let me know when people have the sort of understanding about public finances that you do, cause i’m going all in for Woodside shares. I assume they would still be trading in Australian dollars – with the dollar worth a pinch of crap i’d probably have to sell my house to buy a single Chevron share.

  85. Florence nee Fedup

    Kaye, that debt has grown in spite of this governments massive and continual cuts to the PS and programmes since day one.

  86. Florence nee Fedup

    When Howard ;left office, private debt was at record levels. With this government continuing Howard’s user [pay and small government, I assume that private debt, especially for the young will grow dramatically.

  87. Florence nee Fedup

    For all Neil has to say, one cannot have any faith in this government at all.

  88. Florence nee Fedup

    On the Central Coast, I see the emerging of signs, both sides of road repairs. saying we need to thank the Abbott government. So far I question the value of the money being spent

    As for their announcements so far, they are reintroducing mostly what Labor gad approved while in government. The few that was not, are being highly questioned as to their value. All money for public transport abandoned.

  89. Florence nee Fedup

    Something most seem to be ignoring, is the fact that the high dollar is at last coming down. This was a curse that hung around the neck of Labor for most of it’s term. It was not normal for it to stay so high for so long. A early MRRT would have alienated the situation.

    I suspect this is good, but cannot see a down side could be rising cost of living, as most of what we buy now comes from overseas.

    I believe the truth is, no government, no matter how clever really have any control over the economy. The best they can do, is manage the situation, as new issues arise.

    Labor done this well during their reign.

  90. Florence nee Fedup

    How many interest rises were there under Howard/Costello. ?

  91. Möbius Ecko

    Something you will never see Neil address without harking to Labor.

    Hockey has increased our debt by 13.7% and the interest bill by 28.6%.

    That’s nothing to do with Labor, it all belongs this government’s economic management, or should I say total mismanagement. No wonder they are looking for a war as a distraction.

  92. Kaye Makovec

    Please don’t be mean or spiteful towards Neil of Sydney as unlike the LNP and their supporters, Thinking people do not have to resort to name calling and derogatory remarks, plus his comments provide a form of Brain Exercise in countermand. 🙂

  93. Anne Byam

    99,454 bods … attendees at the MCG for the Grand Final of the AFL season 2014 ( ugh – barf – Hawthorn won !! …. by a large margin ).

    553 down on 2013 year’s attendance. Nothing will ever match the 121,696 in 1970 …. before the powers that be, fiddled with, and re-structured the outer, and other parts of the MCG for ‘better facilities’. They systematically bugga’ed it up from there on in. Not the subject though.

    My point simply is, that very few ‘bowed and scraped’ to the terror threat, if any. I don’t believe there is NOT a terror threat, there IS and has been since September 2001 …. ( or even before, if you think about it ) …..

    The public decided to put aside their fears, trust in the security in force – and GO. What MIGHT have put a few off, was the exhorbitant pricing of the tickets to the AFL Grand Final, which frankly I consider to be obscene pricing for an event. $180 to get in ( without membership of any club ), and up to $400 per ticket – depending on what ‘box’ one might have wanted to be in, or be invited to ( invites did not need to pay ! )

    This information comes from a staff member of the AFL itself.

    FORGET THAT ……. the point I am making is simply that the Victorian and NSW folk did NOT allow the threat of terrorism on the hallowed turf of the MCG, to stop them attending, and to stop them in their normal routines, to stop them in their heart’s desires.

    Which must give the extremist rebel singulars ( or mini-cells ) much to think about. It would have set them back on their heels, well and truly. ……… Rabble like terrorists of any kind, cannot comprehend that kind of response or retaliation. It would leave them, I believe, quite befuddled. Because 1, 2, 3, 10 or 100 radicalised extremist cells of any kind, cannot comprehend that kind of response, and strength.

    GO – AUSTRALIA.

    =======

    I do not diminish the ever present threat of terrorism – of ANY KIND …. by my above remarks. It IS an ever present evil phenomenon in the world today. Through technology, it presents an even more evil presence and threat.

    The majority of the global masses will defeat this …. sooner or later.

    I don’t expect ANY response to this post.

    Just making a few observations ….. is all.

  94. mars08

    Or possibly, just maybe… perhaps… maybeeee…. there ARE NO F*CKING ARMED TERROR CELLS!!!!

    Jeeeeayzzzuz fekkin chriSSSTTT.!! HOLEEE SHIT!!!! Is it that hard for people to look past the hysteria and fear-mongering for even a F*CKING moment? Has the government propaganda really been that effective???!?!?!??

    GOD DAMNNIT!! THIS SHITS ME TO TEARS!!! I WANT RIP MY HAIR OUT! This country has gone absolutely fekkin mad!!!

    Is it that hard to imagine that one of these “rebel singulars” would get on a suburban train with a machete or shotgun during the morning peak hour!!! Is it that hard to imagine a “rebel singular” walking into a Catholic Church on a Sunday morning with a couple of handguns??? Is it that hard to imagine a “rebel singular” crashing a cement truck into a crowded restaurant? Wouldn’t that be TERROR? Wouldn’t that shut down the city? Wouldn’t that get worldwide attention?

    It hasn’t happened BECAUSE THEY DON’T EXIST in this country!!!! FOR F*CK SAKE!!! GET A GRIP!!!

    The reason that very few ‘bowed and scraped’ to the terror threat isn’t because they are brave, robust, unshakable individuals! It’s because they know… deep down… that they are more likely to be killed by sharks, falling out of bed, snake bite or f*cking GASTRO!!!! And that’s a DAMN FACT. F*CKING HELL!!!! The reason that “Victorian and NSW folk did NOT allow the threat of terrorism” to keep them from attending their favourite sport… is because THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT THREAT!!

    In Australia, since 11 September 2001… NINE people have been killed by lightning. The number killed by terrorists? EXACTLY ZERO! The biggest danger -BY FAR- faced by the courageous crowd at the MCG… was driving there in their DAMN CARS!

    SHIT!

  95. mark delmege

    Sadly Mars there are always the nutters who believe the propaganda and want to play along and just maybe someday someone will – its not as if they wouldn’t have reason – what was it Keating said at Refern

    It begins, I think, with the act of recognition. Recognition that it was we who did the dispossessing. We took the traditional lands and smashed the traditional way of life. We brought the disasters. The drugs and booze. We committed the murders. We took the children from their mothers. We practised discrimination and exclusion. We were the ones who created the millions of refugees.
    It was our ignorance and our prejudice. And our failure to imagine these things being done to us. With some noble exceptions, we failed to make the most basic human response and enter into their hearts and minds. We failed to ask – how would I feel if this were done to me?
    As a consequence, we failed to see that what we were doing degraded all of us.

    We invaded their countries, we changed their leaders, we took their oil and resources. We lied about every event and about every reason and justified every crime to enhance our our enrichment.

    We allowed our media to use hate speech against our neighbours. We allowed our land to be used by a foreign power to attack to spy and to usurp the cultures of those around us. We allowed our sons and daughters to be used as instruments of empire….

    or something like that… and there will always be batshit crazies who don’t understand when they are being used…

  96. mars08

    Ever since I started putting sesame oil in my shoes, I have not been attacked by an Islamic terrorist mini-cell. I guess the sesame oil has set them back on their heels, well and truly. That’s the only logical explanation!

  97. mark delmege

    mars have you tried coconut oil in your hair? – I seem to attract a few bees but they are friendly enough and as I said I wouldn’t have mine cut until the dockers win a premiership I plan on stocking up this year.

  98. Anne Byam

    Mark Delmege ……. your 2nd, 3rd and 4th paragraphs were, I believe, correct. The rest of it seemed to go along with your mate Mars.

    There are indeed ‘nutters and bat-shit crazies’ around. Need I spell out the name of one in particular on here – starts with a small ‘m’.

    I personally do not fall for the propaganda of the press, certainly not that of this vile Government, or any fear mongering. Not personally, but many do.

    It would be nicer to think that the Mars bloke, might have read my post properly in the first place, before going completely off the rails.

    I rather think that would be too much to ask though. ……. doesn’t sound too rational.

  99. Anne Byam

    Mars08 …

    Terrorism is many many things – and is not exclusive to ‘singular cells’ or multiple cells of radicalised ISIS / ISIL combatants.

    Terrorism is ” threat, coercion, intimidation, and methods of instilling fear. ……….. AND

    ” a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government. ” ——— Does that remind you of a Government we all know ?

    Typically, AS USUAL ….. you did not bother to read my post properly, before going off on a FOUL MOUTHED & REVOLTING INVECTIVE, at me … and it WAS aimed at me, as you mentioned a number of my comments. You didn’t even have the guts to address your ravings TO me.

    You MISSED THE POINT ….. now ain’t THAT a surprise !!!

    I have no idea whatsoever, whether there are singular or multiple cells in this country OR NOT …… ah, but – neither do YOU.

    For your edification, I shall repeat one line of my original post – see if you can read it properly this time : ” I do not diminish the ever present threat of terrorism – of ANY KIND …. by my above remarks. It IS an ever present evil phenomenon in the world today. ”

    Get that ? …… OF ANY KIND.

    This Government is … FAR MORE DANGEROUS to us than any other form of threats – at this time. …….. perhaps, maybeee … ?? you might understand THAT ?

    Then again, maybe not ( sigh ).

    Your post shows EXACTLY the type of person you are !!!

  100. mark delmege

    Anne I guess if you don’t understand the history of how IS was created, the circumstances of its nurture and the purposes for which it is used we/you might not understand what might happen next. Chaos is a policy option – I have no doubt – and from chaos some expect to reassert and extend their rule.

    Lies and propaganda flood every MSM outlet and whatever we think we know about the latest outrage will probably prove to be wrong.

    Terrorism is an instrument of policy by empire and IS is being used to open the doors for American Imperialism to re-enter Iraq and to takeover and smash Syria.

    No matter how much you may fear and hate IS the puppet masters are the real problem.

  101. mars08

    I have no idea whatsoever, whether there are singular or multiple cells in this country…

    Hmmm… Any yet…. the valiant, unflappable crowd at the MCG… “must give the extremist rebel singulars ( or mini-cells ) much to think about. It would have set them back on their heels, well and truly.” So, these groups which may or may be exist, have been left “quite befuddled” by our passionate footie fans.

    Okay… glad we got that sorted.

  102. mark delmege

    Whats more Anne, the ABC our ABC, Aunty is a willing participant in the fabrication of lies and propaganda and promoter of terrorism. The last news bulletin I heard a representative from the Free Syrian Army given time to promote his hate filling request for support. These same terrorists are armed and backed by the US and no doubt our own government. These scum bag terrorists have killed shit loads of ordinary Syrian people – just like you and me. They massacre innocents and government police and army and have kidnapped people and sold them to other groups for murder. A member was seen on video reaching into the body of dying man and pulled out and eaten organs. These terrorists for empire are the enemies of Syria and civilization in general. Yet our politicians and media promote them. If IS scare you so should the FSA.

  103. Anne Byam

    Mark Delmege ….. I have done quite a bit of research on the massive and complicated history of ISIS / IS / ISIL – and it’s former affiliate ( al Qaeda. )… but it would take me another lifetime or two to even begin to understand it all. I do believe it goes back a lot further than just recently ( Oct 2006 is cited ). ISIS or IS, is largely based on the Salafi ( Salafist ) movement, which indeed does go back to their prophet’s day …. and are Sunni, but different to the Orthodox Sunni and the Sharia … different ideologies again.

    Like so many other religions on this earth, they have differences of opinion ( putting it mildly ) ….

    The FSA, as I understand it, was begun by a group of defected Syrian Armed Forces officers and soldiers, during the Syrian civil war which began in 2011, and has gone on with a couple of small breaks, since then.

    I was actually looking for the ABC news bulletin you mentioned, and in rummaging around the net – came across this site ( which I have used before, but am not sure whether to ‘ trust ‘or not ).

    http://www.vox.com/cards/things-about-isis-you-need-to-know/sunni-shia-conflict-ISIS

    It contains some interesting items. You may have already seen it. It deals almost exclusively with ISIS.

    I could not find the ABC news bulletin, but did find one on the American ABC.com site. One comment made by al Bahra who commands the FSA, stood out :

    ……….. “I assure you all the aid will go to moderate national Syrian army, the Free Syrian Army, and we will be very careful with it,” al Bahra said, in response to ” Congress gave President Obama authority to provide funding and military training to Syrian opposition forces led by Bahra, ………… > > and the criticism levelled at that decision”.

    Maybe our own ABC was re-running that story ? I don’t know. Just a thought.

    And who would know ( except themselves – maybe ? ) …. just who else the U.S. is supporting with arms, ammunition etc. I wouldn’t even hazard a guess.

    ( Other news items on the Net, has the FSA weakening, to the point of disintegration ( which no doubt is why the plea by al Bahra above was made, for ” arms and supplies” ??? ).

    The whole situation – – – – one big, bloody, horrible mess.

  104. Anne Byam

    @ Mark Delmege ….. one more comment …….. much shorter this time !! :

    Absolutely NOTHING surprises me when it comes to MSM. NOTHING. As I have said before, on AIM ….. ” if it bleeds, it leads” … an age old mantra of newspapers – and now newscasts of any kind, from anywhere. Today’s Sunday Herald Sun is full of fear mongering.

    AND …. I could never trust the U.S. …. Have been involved in a few verbal punch-ups in my own family over THAT one. The U.S. go after oil, which is astonishing as they have their own massive reserves of oil themselves, both on shore and off-shore. They are addicted to it, and it’s global issue of wealth and power. …. The first I read of the Alaskan oil riches, was at least 12 years ago – a summary written by a Professor attached to Princeton ( from memory ) ….and he was vilified in every way. ……….. Turns out he was right.

    http://fortune.com/2012/05/24/why-shell-is-betting-billions-to-drill-for-oil-in-alaska/ ( written in May 2014 ).

    Chaos is right. When it comes to power – chaos usually precedes it …..

  105. Florence nee Fedup

    I am not sure seeing Abbott, Bishop and others on each day, repeating with sober serious faces, in inflammatory language about how evil ISIS/IL is, really adds to the debate. Thankfully, I suspect few are listening, Some use it as an excuse to up their racism and attack, mostly on innocence women, and I suspect children.

    Does not appear to me, to be statesmen like behaviour from our leaders.

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