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A plea to Labor – don’t abandon us

The surprise of the nation at the re-election of the Coalition government is understandable – not because of what polls and bookmakers and media said, but on the basis of how the Australian people voted.

This election result does not reflect what Australians wanted.

If the Queensland result is left out of the equation, the rest of the nation elected Labor in 62 seats compared to the Coalition in 54 seats. If we also remove the only other state where the Coalition got more seats, Western Australia, then the vote becomes 57 seats to Labor vs 43 to the Coalition.

Aside from the two mining states, the rest of the country wanted a Labor government.

Nationwide, the Greens got 10.34% of the vote which should equate to 15 seats in the House of Representatives but, because their vote is spread fairly evenly across the country, their supporters remain hugely unrepresented with only one seat – the same number as the Katter Party which received 0.49% of the national vote and Centre Alliance who got 0.33%.

Looking at the Queensland result, even it does not reflect what the people wanted. The LNP got 43.73% of First Preference votes yet secured 77% of the seats. The Greens had the same support as they do around the country – 10.3% of the FP vote leaves them completely unrepresented and subjected to ridicule from the LNP and conservative press and even some in Labor.

This election seemed to be all about tax yet that did not feature highly on most people’s concerns.

According to Vote Compass, with a sample size of over 513,000, more than 80 per cent of Australians want the Government to take more action on climate change including 60 per cent of Coalition voters. Nearly 90 per cent wanted to see more renewable energy, including a majority of voters from all parties. Three quarters wanted to see the Government do more to increase the number of electric cars.

There is a great deal of talk about religious freedom since the unexpected win which is surprising as only about 15% of Australians actively practice any religion.

Despite 61.6% of Australians voting yes in the marriage equality survey, some religious organisations and individuals are ramping up the pressure to insist on their right to ignore the law of the land so they can continue to discriminate against people based on their sexual orientation or gender identity and for schools to teach their children that being gay is evil.

But they also want a new law, and a new human rights commissioner, protecting their freedom of speech/religion so no-one can object to them vilifying gays. Christian extremists, and homophobes, seem to think they are the victims.

Questions should be asked about Christian schools who receive government funding engaging in political campaigning. During the election, more than 160,000 flyers were distributed to largely marginal seats across the country, sent home with schoolchildren. The flyers described the election as “the most critical for religious freedom in living memory”, urging them to “consider the protection of our fundamental values and beliefs this election”.

Before Labor lurches to the right in a fit of appeasement to chase votes in Queensland and those of homophobes, they should realise that 41.47% of people voted for the four parties that make up the Coalition. The combined Labor and Greens vote was 43.7% of the country.

Don’t abandon us.


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  1. Baby Jewels

    I think Labor has already lurched to the right. Which just adds to the feeling of hopelessness.

  2. Perkin Warbeck

    And many of the miners are Fly In – Fly- Outers, too. The chances are many the 100 jobs Adani generate will be FI-FO. And the only beneficiaries will be people who rent their houses out at scandalous rates, as happened in the Pilbara.
    When I was a disability claims manager for Lloyds of London we had a contract to cover miners in the Pilbara. They were mostly on $5000 a week (3 weeks on, 2 weeks off) and more than a few didn’t even live on-shore. One bloke lived in Bali, living on the proverbial smell of an oily rag and coining $250,000 per annum.
    They didn’t even benefit the communities they lived in when working on site. Most of them
    lived in cabins on site and the company bought all provisions in Perth.
    Queensland will be left with fraudulent royalties, polluted aquifers, a bloody big hole and a f#cked GBR.
    Many happy returns.

  3. Alpo

    Labor are not lurching to the right. They must understand how to communicate with Queenslanders though, and the best way is to get Queenslanders in the front bench (the shadow Treasurer is a Queenslander, Chalmers… TICK), and Queenslanders in a prominent position within the ALP (the president is another Queenslander, Swan… TICK). Labor cannot and will not get enough seats above the Coalition elsewhere in order to compensate let alone overcome the massive advantage that the Coalition has in Queensland. Labor must confront the issue of Queensland head on and give Queenslanders answers that they find credible and acceptable. Here the help of the ALP Qld state Government will be essential.

    Progressives from other states should refrain from attacking Queenslanders head on (the convoy to North Qld headed by the Tasmanian Bob Brown was an act of political stupidity!). Supporting Albo and the ALP will be enough, then it’s up to the ALP to attract the vote of Queenslanders.

  4. Alpo

    “I think Labor has already lurched to the right.”… Not true, that’s a myth all too common among extreme left-wingers.

  5. flogga

    Those people who engaged with Vote compass were politically engaged people. Despite a large number of respondents, it’s not a representative sample so generalising to the population is problematic. Large samples do not enhance reliability of surveys – representativeness does.

  6. pierre wilkinson

    I can only hope that Labor stays true to its’ adherents and maintains their policy stance.
    The election was not democracy in action, but we can democratically change the result with just two by-elections,
    meanwhile a hostile senate might curb some of the excesses this rabble will now claim a mandate for. >sigh<

  7. Kaye Lee

    What if I, and the majority of the rest of Australia, don’t agree with what Queenslanders seem to want? Why should less than half (43%) of the third largest state dictate policy when most of us disagree?

    Sure they want jobs. I am fairly certain that voters in Victoria and South Australia would have liked some assistance to keep the car industry going. It’s great that farmers are getting help to deal with the effects of climate change, be they droughts, fires, floods or cyclones, but do they realise that the rest of us get no such help to deal with disruption? Queenslanders have overwhelmingly voted for the party that wants to exacerbate climate change at the expense of their tourism industry and ongoing future jobs in renewable energy.

    How on earth do you ‘communicate’ with that?

  8. Wun Farlung

    Kaye Lee
    How do you communicate???
    Spend $60 000 000 on wall to wall saturation, Labor/Bill Shorten bad ads

  9. Paul Davis

    ‘Labor must confront the issue of Queensland head on and give Queenslanders answers that they find credible and acceptable.’

    What we found unacceptable was
    Green tape bs about water tables and finches holding up thousands of mining jobs
    Climate change scare tactics about ‘our’ reef
    Threatening pensioners with unfair new taxes
    Taking franking credits off hard working battlers
    Plus the usual Labor anti farmer anti business bs re landclearing, live exports, fracking, coal etc
    Plus greenie dickheads and vegan goons denigrating decent hard working folk

    The only way Labor will win seats up here is if the next Frecklington government is as inept and vile as Newman’s was….

  10. Stephengb

    Kaye Lee, sorry but I fear that Labor have already signalled a step to the Right. It will of course be used by the Right to say “I told you so”. I believe it will not help Labor chances, but merely reinforce the LNP misinformation, mossrepresentation and down right lies, that prevailed in the LNP campaign, as the truth.

    There is in my view only one way to counter the LNP claimed economic management prowess, and that is to ensure that the electorate are better educated about “wheremneycomesfrom”.

    That will be my direct contribution to the next federal election, which I believe may come earlier than 2022, because
    1. I am sure that the LNP will contue to force austerity on the low to middle income earners.
    2. Continue to pursue tax cuts to those who don’t need it.
    3. Continue to keep wages low.

    This, as you will be well aware, reduce even more non essential spending by an increasing number of consumers who’s reduced spending will keep small and medium businesses in a precarious situation forcing lay offs, and even less spending.

    Current small and medium businesses going to the wall is at an all time high as is the retail barometer (car sales) showing a massive drop on sales.

    Of course in the short term the low to middle inccome earners promised, but modest, tax cuts on 1st July (unfortunately this is in doubt) will give a short term boost to retail sales, unless it is just used to reduce household debt.

    Meanwhile the massive divergence of debt to incomes for individuials, households and small business will eventuslly bring on the next correction, How big that correction is, and for how long, is anyone’s guess, but we are well overdue, corrections are a feature of this neoliberal world in which we live

    If the correction comes in this term of LNP governance, it will be difficult for the LNP to blame Labor (although I am sure they will try) so it could be Labor’s chance to double dissolution the government and force an early election which I cannot see the LNP winning.
    Of course that depends just how far to the Right the Albo opposition is prepared to step, and whether they are prepared to force a DD?

    Labor need to understand that after the 1975, the 2013 the 2016 and now the 2019 elections it 8s clear that there is absolutely no end to the sculduggary, that the LNP will go, in order to gain and keep government.

    🎶 pick yourself up, dust yourself off, start all over again🎶

  11. Kerry

    Alpo there is not a “Qld issue”. Labor is in government here and has been for most of the last 50 years. Local Labor is just as insipid on Adani and coal in general as Federal Labor. Yet they were voted in locally.

    Care to offer an explanation?

    The anomaly of states electing the opposite in federal elections is not limited to Qld. Maybe its our national sense of fairness?

    We don’t need things explained to us “better”. We need better policies that take mining states into account by Labor getting off its bum and creating policy for Green jobs. Its a no brainer …yet to date there is no policy.

    Bob Brown had nothing to do with the labor loss and he didn’t attack anyone head on. He did what he has always done: stick up for our environment.

    In my humble Queensland opinion Labor needs to get off its high horse with the Greens and start cooperating with the left. It is not credible that labor cares about the environment, workers, poverty etc and yet turns its nose up at the Greens. We are simply not that stupid.
    The LNP does not have an inherent advantage up here, it is circumstantial on mining and as we all know that is changing.

    What we need is leadership, courage and investment to propel us into the renewables ‘Boom”

    Check out this you Tube video from the US which features a southern GOP Mayor who explains why renewables are the only fiscally and morally responsible choice. It is seriously inspiring and seems surreal coming from the right. Yet on this issue Labor here are mute.

    Watch this and weep, its priceless!

  12. Kaye Lee

    Paul Davis,

    There aren’t going to be thousands of mining jobs. Bridget McKenzie said that Adani would provide around about 100 ongoing jobs.

    Water tables are kind of important if you want survival let alone an agriculture industry..

    As for scare tactics re the reef, I worked on a dive boat up there in the 1980s. I went back not long ago with my daughter. The change is heartbreaking. The world has lost roughly half its coral reefs in the last 30 years. Even if the world could halt global warming now, scientists still expect that more than 90 percent of corals will die by 2050. Without drastic intervention, we risk losing them all.

    Pensioners were exempt from any changes to franking credits and current investors were also exempt from any changes to negative gearing or capital gains tax. Superannuees can have $1.6 million in their tax free pension account and their home, regardless of its value, is not ever considered in any assets test.

    Hardworking battlers presumably paid tax in which case they could have still offset their franking credits to reduce their tax liability.

    More than 1 million hectares of native bush and forest has been cleared in Queensland over the last four years. Land clearing in Queensland is now on par with Brazil.

    “Land clearing threatens biodiversity, impairs the functioning of terrestrial, freshwater, and marine ecosystems, and is a key contributor to human-induced climate change. The rates of land clearing in the State of Queensland, Australia, are at globally significant levels. Land clearing affects regional climates, leading to hotter, drier climates that will impact on the Queensland economy and local communities. Loss of habitat from land clearing is a key threatening process for many endangered animals and plants. Runoff from land clearing results in sediment and nutrient enrichment, which threatens the health of the Great Barrier Reef.”

    Perhaps if Queenslanders cared to educate themselves about the facts they might understand why we “dickheads and goons” are worried. Frankly, anyone who isn’t worried about climate change and water tables and land clearing and fracking and live exports and loss of biodiversity could rightly be called ignorant self-obsessed dickheads. And I reiterate, only 43% of Queenslanders voted for the LNP. 37% of Queenslanders voted for Labor or the Greens yet they only got 20% of the seats.

  13. Stephengb

    For those of you attack the so called extreme Left, and claim that Labor has NOT stepped (or lurched) to, the Right, seem to ignore that Albo’s shadow cabinate is full of Right faction Neoliberals.

    Any Lefty who talks of budget Surplus or Defict as good and or bad, is promoting the Neoliberal Agenda.

    And it’s the call for budget Surplus as a good thing which makes Labor little different to the LNP.

  14. Kaye Lee

    I am so less interested in the budget than I am in potentially catastrophic effects of climate change and water mismanagement and the rampant clearing of the lungs of the nation etc.

    As I have said before, Labor needs to really concentrate on the why – the how is secondary.

  15. Phil

    Wow Paul Davis – reads like a series of Courier Mail front pages! Murdoch should give you a lapel pin.

  16. Freethinker

    IMO, Bill Shorten’s Labor presented excellent progressive policies which were supported by all the party members.
    Also would not surprise me at all if the Labor won that together with the Greens they were able to find common ground and implement that policies with minor adjustments.
    Albo and few of the senior members acted in a panic too soon by scraping all that policies and are prepared to turn to the right ideology.
    Very big mistake IMO, is going back to 1983 policy/solution of “political consensus”
    Regarding the election results and the electoral system in how the seats are allocated, I believe that it is undemocratic and the parliament does not represent the voters/whishing of the people.
    The minority is dictating how the country is heading towards an environmental destruction

  17. Matters Not

    Yep Queensland has a Deep North. Starts about Maryborough and becomes more apparent the further up you go. Those who live in Brisbane and further South are Mexicans, pejoratively speaking.

    Jobs in the tourist industry are seen as part-time, poorly paid (who wants to rely on tips) and are certainly not for real men who have families, live in communities, are members of … etc. No ‘gig’ economy for them

    And Queenslanders absolutely hate Mexicans telling them how to live their lives. No daylight saving (are you aware how ‘west’ Townsville is in the hot summers with kids suffering heat stress – and they certainly don’t want more daylight). As for electric cars – the bloody things won’t go beyond 500 kms whereas the Land Cruisers and Patrols are good for at least 1200kms over corrugations, through creeks etc.

    This victim mentality finds expression in State of Origin. It’s Queensland against the world.

    No understandings of the Queensland mentality – which was well explained by Dr Richard Smith many moons ago

  18. Paul Davis

    Kaye Lee, i absolutely agree with every word you said @ 7.47pm. My earlier comment @ 7.22pm was voicing the opinions of my local fellow pensioner neighbours here in Palookaville. Next time you’re up this way have a chat to the locals. We have Canavan and Landry headquartered here and they walk on water.
    There is one local paper the Bulletin plus the Brisbane Courier Mail both NewsCorp, both printed in Gladstone and at newsagents by 5am. The Sydney Morning Herald is also printed by NewsCorp in Gladstone but is only available in a couple of outlets here usually after 10am but frequently later or the next day. Many of my new acquaintances watch Sky on WIN 83 free to air. Every medical centre and specialist centre i have been to here has TV on 9 or WIN. I get shouted down if i suggest ABC is not biased to the left and few people my age, 70s, use internet. So you can see what you are up against.

  19. wam

    Good calculations, Kaye. I agree that the qild voters changed their vote at the ballot box and they were not alone.
    The shonky adverts, lying media and shorten’s convoluted changes were all serious hurdles.

    But the killer blow was delivered by the man who destroyed the climate action in 2009 then retired. Coming out of retirement at the behest of an ambitious would be minister to sink labor in 2019.

    Paul Davis espouses utter bullshit but it is queensland bullshit and is believed as TRUE on the 19th and, Kaye THAT WAS THE HOW AND CASH IN THE POCKET WAS THE WHY..
    (his advice is excellent talk to voters not just loonies)
    When a mob of southern scruffy vegan loonies yelling and screaming confronts worried queenslanders. QED LNP 23 seats to Labor 6
    Brown was even more success when the loonies took votes from labor and scored $9m overall.

    I have a problem when greenies use disingenuous totals in an electorate system but they are extremists and in that capacity influence more that their 10%. So diludbransimkims a plea don’t forget labor.

    love ya flogga – the compass is a sham half-inched by a shamster

  20. Matters Not

    Paul Davis is offering insights. He’s on the ground as it were. Listen to what he has to say. As for wam … part of the problem, as Jericho pointed out in his recent article.

  21. Stephengb

    Kaye Lee,

    I understand I also am concerned about climate change and water mismanagment both of which boils down to DOLLARS.

    Every decision made by government boils down to dollars, and that means balancing the economic landscape.

    No not the budget, but the balance of the whole of economics.

    The biggest critic and influance of climate change and water management has been entirely centred on the cost. Where the money comes from is absolutely critical to the cost issue and that means the issue is about who pays? “Wherethemoneycomefrom”.

    Think about it.

  22. Kaye Lee


    I had a feeling you were quoting rather than expressing your beliefs.

    The trouble is, it seems so easy to answer those arguments but Labor just didn’t seem able to control the message. Sure Murdoch plays a role, but that means we just have to work harder talking to people.

  23. wam

    Natters Mot, loved your jericho reference the green boy’s walking in circles blowing their trumpets fits the biblical images that work in queensland. Such careful attention to details.

    You are right freethinker the extremists are clouding the issues.

    Sadly labor ignored KISS scummo didn’t and their respective extremists used the media. Both Bobby and Palmer succeeded QED shorten stuffed.

  24. corvus boreus

    Matters Not,
    I agree that recent article by Greg Jericho is well worth reading, particularly for those who view either of the 2 main ‘progressive parties’ as pure and blameless in terms of their contributions to the consistent trend of coalition electoral victories.
    Ps, I also agree that our resident ‘troll with Tourette’s’ is both a part and a symptom of the overall problem

  25. Neil Hogan

    When Labor only get 33.86% of the primary vote in a federal election after putting forward a detailed & costed policy platform that would benefit the majority of Australians, you really have to wonder what are the priorities of the average Australian?

  26. wam

    well said crow but any non-rationalising-loonie who looks at the results outside of Qld will conclude the green convoy was the difference between shorten losing and winning.

    Then a simple ref ‘election’ might show why the new pragmatic loonies chose the ‘time’ and manner of their action?

    The cash from the AEC may reveal the motive.

    troll is an insult as I am seeking some evidence to refute my claims. Even an idiot like me knows the loonies are no longer the principled people from the Tassie ‘Pedder’ days but are a legitimate ambitious party with men who will stop at nothing to force labor into a coalition.
    They will eventually succeed. Perhaps in 2026????

  27. Jon Chesterson

    The state of democracy, where two mining States hold the rest of the nation to ransom. Australia isn’t working, it has become a mining company. The irony is both these States are Labor. The country should now have a Labor government and let the two rogue States suffer an LNP State government!

    Yes Queensland and Western Australia – shame on you for undermining the national interest.

  28. corvus boreus

    Yes ‘troll’ is insulting but, since you routinely employ insult to provoke anger and disrupt discussion, it is also a handle that fits.
    If you genuinely seek academic evidence, then you should probably start speaking like a reasonable adult rather than a sledging troll, and yourself refrain from disseminating any further fictitious statistics and false claims.
    When you cease to habitually refer to the Greens, their supporters, and environmentalists in general, as ‘loonies’ (a gratuitous insult) you will be demonstrating a willingness to engage in rational socio-political discussion.
    Meantime, goodbye troll.

  29. Josephus

    Thanks Corvus. The comments about loonies and similar are mindless- please oh please people be rational and evidence based, as scientists are. The Enlightenment – remember that? Read Thomas Paine. The age of witches is over. Floods, winds, fires, droughts, the death of not just finches but a thousand other species. You are thinking of jobs? executioners lost their jobs too. Some jobs may need replacing.

  30. Kaye Lee

    That’s the bit that really gets me Josephus. As the world changes, jobs change. It is ridiculous, and unfair, to insist you must keep your job if it harming us all. Should asbestos workers have insisted on keeping their jobs? Or those who produced CFCs? What about those who work in the tobacco industry?

    Aside from the climate change aspect, changing technology and automation will continue to affect many jobs. We must anticipate and prepare – new jobs, new industries, new services, new skills training

  31. Henry Rodrigues

    I hear why Labor lost the election; because of the ‘retiree tax’, the Adani mine providing thousands of jobs, abolition of negative gearing and all the other scary scenarios pushed by the fcking MSM and the so-called independent ABC and SBS as well as the dickheads on radio and Sky. But no one has analysed why did these scare tactics were only effective in Queensland and to a lesser degree in WA. Do those people possess some greater intelligence, some deeper perception ?
    Or are they just dimwits, prejudiced and greedy ? I know some Queenslanders on this website will take offense, but instead could they enlighten the rest of Australia how their thought processes work ?

    Nothing personal, just curiosity.

  32. Pete Petrass

    We need to get rid of preferential voting to restore true democracy.

  33. totaram

    Stephengb has made a very important point, but everyone misses it. All of Labor’s and indeed the Greens’ policies are “moulded” by the desire to finally deliver a “budget surplus”, the holy grail of “good economic management”. Until that nonsense is fought and destroyed, neoliberalism is alive and well, just hiding under new cloak of so-called “progressive” policies.

    But I don’t expect that destruction of neoliberalism to happen in my lifetime. Tough shit. Because if you dig into the history of all this, they have been working on this for half a century, and have poured billions into it. Check out:

    In fact, reading some of the responses here, there are so many simpler problems to be solved, which seem to be insurmountable at the moment. It will take ages to work through these, but time is running out!

  34. Wayne Turner

    ALL of the Main Stream Media are the problem – They are the promotional wing of the COALition. It’s what got the COALition over the line just,AGAIN. Plus,of course those in the public that fell for the fear,smear,and lies.

    100% Labor should not abandon us. Instead,they may not like it,but they have to do it: EVERYTIME they are talking to the MSM,they MUST call out ALL the MSM’s LIES,BIAS and BS.SPEAK THE TRUTH,NEVER BUCKLE to the MSM BS.

    The MSM don’t like Labor,Labor needs to NOT take their crap EVER AGAIN.Stop being nice to a media,that’s NOT nice to them,if they are accused of bullying the media,who cares,they bag Labor anyway,and labor keep losing.What they are doing with the MSM isn’t working.Plus,FRAME ARGUMENTS with their words,NOT the MSM and COALition’s – “Words matter”.

    Also hide the likes of Joel F OFF GIBONS,who always just bags Labor when in the media,he is an f wit.

  35. Matters Not

    Yes, there’s the right thing to do. Then there’s the good thing to do. (And sometimes – never the twain do meet.) Then there’s the political thing to do. You know – the policy platform formulated to win elections.

    While one may argue about the ethics of a policy agenda, it’s obvious the political platform (and its presentation) while promising so much was a monumental failure.

    The post election analysis won’t focus on the rights and wrongs or the good versus the bad, it will be mired in the political – with the emphasis on the future. And this time around Labor will be decidedly pragmatic. It’ll be about what works. A political platform akin to a railway platform – there to get in from – and not to remain on.

    Principles will be scarce. A new horizon.

  36. Stephengb

    Thank you totaram.

    I see that today the RBA used the first and only effective tool to increase inflation and business investment.

    But it will fail, cutting interest rates around the world has achieved little across the western world since the GFC.

    The Neoliberal Agenda which started in the early eighties has achieved what it intended, the USA, UK and now Australia are almost 100% Corporatocracies. Money controls everything (Yes Kaye Lee the climate change issue is all about Money).

    If anyone wants to understand the real neoliberal agenda look up the blueprint as descrobed in a 1971 memorandum by Lewis Powell Jnr to the American Chamber of Commerce.

    The contents of this memorandum in my view is actually frightening.

  37. Henry Rodrigues

    Totaram and Stephengb….. Just yesterday I read an article explaining the merits and effectiveness of QE (quantitative easing) vs MMT (Modern Monetary Theory) and from what I gathered, it seems sooner or later MMT will be given a practice run which will prove how much better it is that what’s done all these years since the Great depression. The article was published on the Finance News Arena website. It is a good explanatory read.

  38. John Lavery

    The truism is that when you are in opposition you can have all of the fancy theories you like but when it comes election time the smartest approach is to assume that the Australian voter has the mind of a five-year-old child. Abbott knew this and framed his slogans accordingly. Easy to understand and to repeat. And no more scary ideas like dropping the franking credits. Anyone with half a brain could have seen what the Libs would make out of this. Lies and distortions win every time. Come out with a simple platform and get into office THEN make your sensible changes. You cannot do anything from the Opposition benches.

  39. wam

    Too deep totaram,
    The holy grail of ‘economy’ is the head start the LNP has by virtue of the belief that the lnp manages the economy labor just spends and ruins the economy.
    At the base lnp level, coppers, army, chippies plus their women and children that belief prevents them considering labor.. Every election the lnp rely on the head start and every lnp on my page loathes the loonies. Their belief drags waverers and bobby brown sent them spinning.
    Wowowpo Wayne turner when the fitzgibbon got thumped he spent his time white-anting gillard. Recently he was thinking of going for the leadership how ludicrous what an ego.

    Dear crow and crowlets
    If I speak-a your language will you smile and give me a vegemite sandwich?
    Go to Townsville and speak to those who voted against shorten?
    Speak to a conservative to assess their loathing of the loonies
    Talk to the not so smart labor voters about labor being lumped with the loonies.
    Then make you decision as to ‘greens’ or ‘loonies
    ps I consider dinatale and his boys unprincipled as shown by the adani trip cynically timed to increase the party’s cash flow

  40. corvus boreus

    Yes, rednecks and demented morons do tend to call environmentally educated and engaged people ‘loonies’.

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