A cast of characters: The Monarchy (part 16)
By Dr George Venturini
This was the time, from 1933 until late in 1939, when Britain sat staring like a mesmerised rabbit at Germany’s order, discipline, productivity and apparent prosperity – in preparation for war. Any suggestions for action on Britain’s part were discouraged on the ground that it might irritate the German ‘cousins’ and their Nazi monster and thus produce the very calamity that Britain desired to avert, as Alfred Duff Cooper, friend of Edward VIII, cabinet minister and diplomat, would put it. From Australia, lawyers like Robert Gordon Menzies would go further, way beyond a leguleian-shysterish distinction between ‘internal affairs’ – the persecution of the Jews and even Kristallnacht – and ‘diplomatic concerns’, whatever that means. Menzies actually went further: returning from a long visit to Germany, in October 1938 he told friends and admirers that “There is a good deal of really spiritual quality in the willingness of young Germans to devote themselves to the service and well-being of the State”, and that enthusiasm for service to the State evident in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany “could well be emulated in Australia.”
Duff Cooper wrote that he was gently chided at a dinner once by Edward VIII for being mildly critical of Germany: “He hoped, as so many people did at the time, that we should be able to come to terms with the new regime in Germany, and he regretted my attitude towards it.”
Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, who had set out to marry the handsome Edward, Prince of Wales, ended up with the thickest of his backward brother, Albert, Duke of York. She would maintain the kind of ‘spiritual quality’ to which Menzies referred. Hence Elizabeth was being prepared to join, in the spirit of the time of collaboration with Nazi Germany, the future Englisch Jugend.
Months after the Prince of Wales became king Edward VIII he abdicated and the throne went to Albert, who changed his name to become King George VI. Bowes-Lyon insisted on being known as the ‘Queen Mother’.
‘The backward king’ George VI, 1936-1952, inherited about half their father’s fortune. He also inherited the advice of Sir Edward Peacock, who continued to advise the monarchy well into Elizabeth II’s reign.
Queen Elizabeth II is believed to have inherited the bulk of George VI’s fortune, some £50 million, to invest and reinvest tax free from 1952, when she became Queen. Conservative estimates are that her portfolio grew to £3 billion (as at 1995).
In 1995 ING, a Dutch bank, purchased Barings Bank for the nominal sum of £1 and assumed all of Barings’ liabilities, forming the subsidiary ING Barings.
Apart from the ‘`hot-money-laundering’ ING, the Queen relied for a time upon Morgan Grenfell, which in 1990 was taken over by Deutsche Bank, transforming that German bank into part of the British financial network in the process. Morgan Grenfell senior executive Sir Wilfred William Hill Hill-Wood, financial adviser to King George VI, continued his services to the Queen, who conferred upon him a knighthood of the Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order.
Coming to Queen Elizabeth now, there are only indicia of her enormous wealth, and they are surrounded by myth and fantasy.
It is said, for instance, that she acts as the holder a fondo, the property system once set up by the Venetian Black nobility. On that assumption one could go far, far away. (See: ‘The Venetian Oligarchy: Its Methods, Agendas, Tactics, …,’ and ‘How the Venetian System Was Transplanted Into England).
To operate with extreme ‘discretion’ the Queen is able to divide her total wealth into two parts. One is protected by the already mentioned Venetian-style fondo – essentially a trust, which makes royal patrimony as inalienable and must be passed on to her heir, free from inheritance tax. The second part of the Queen’s wealth consists of her private collection of castles, jewellery, and art items, and a portfolio of blue chip stocks and bonds and real estate investments around the world.
One of the secrets to her disposable wealth is that she amassed it tax free until 1992, the year when she entered in the already mentioned ‘memorandum of understanding’ to pay taxes on income, capital gains, and inheritance on such portfolio. She could, of course, break the agreement at any time she desires, and without any consequence of sort.
The Queen has an enormous advantage over any other stock market operator: she is the world’s ultimate ‘insider trader.’ Not only does she receive tips from British financiers, but she also has access to all the state secrets, through the ‘boxes’ she receives daily. Thus, if the Queen learns from among all public and private intelligence and economic warfare entities reporting to her, for example, that a country is about to be destabilised – Libya, for instance, or Iraq, she can immediately call her broker. Under the secrecy laws which protect the monarchy, it would be unthinkable for anyone to consider pressing charges of insider trading and conflict of interest against the sovereign. That would be the ultimate lèse-majesté!
But among the many ‘stories’ and fables, some elements of truth are unquestionable.
The Queen owns mines and mineral rights all over the globe. In the 1950s the uranium mining company Rio Tinto Mines – now known as Rio Into Energy and Rio Tinto Diamonds, and both parts of the Rio Tinto Group – was formed by the Queen’s ‘African adviser’ Roland Walter Rowland (formerly R. W. Fuhrhop, but better known as ‘Tiny’ Rowland). In the words of British Prime Minister Edward Heath he was labelled in 1972 “the unacceptable face of capitalism”, due to his flamboyant, aggressive and unscrupulous business practices. He was for 33 years at the helm of London and Rhodesian Mining and Land Company – Lonrho, an international conglomerate, which was taken over by FSAfrica, a corporation controlled by two Swiss billionaires. R.W. Furhop was a German, and in the words of a fellow German “an ardent supporter of Hitler and an arrogant, nasty piece of work to boot.” Furhop lost his position in 1995 and died in 1998.
His sympathy for the Nazis did not disqualify him from advising the Queen – discretely, of course.
Through Furhop -‘Tiny’ Towland, Africa became the primary source of the Queen’s investments in uranium extraction – mainly but not exclusively from Rössing Uranium Mine in Namibia.
In 1971 Senator Thomas J. McIntyre (D-N.H.) and Representative Silvio O. Conte R-Mass) confirmed that Queen Elizabeth II held a major share in Courtaulds Textiles. Courtaulds was Britain’s largest producer of lingerie and underwear. The organisation employs around 20,000 people across 16 countries in Europe, North America and Asia, and has annual turnover exceeding £1 billion ( as at July 2018).
While the name Courtaulds disappeared in the chemical merger with Akzo Nobel, the Courtaulds textile name remains as a division in Sara Lee. In May 2006 Sara Lee announced the sale of Courtaulds Textiles to PD Enterprise Limited, a major supplier of clothing to Courtaulds Textiles.
PD Enterprise Ltd., a private company based in Hong Kong, operates nine facilities which produce more than 120 million garments annually. Its products include bras, underwear, nightwear, swim and beachwear, formal-wear and casual wear, jackets and coats, baby wear and socks.
Courtaulds had come to the attention of the two American Congressmen when the Queen used the company as her nominee to hide her ownership of the largest plantation in Mississippi, on the bank of the homonymous River and near the border with the State of Arkansas. It was known as the Delta and Pine Land Company, or ‘the Queen’s Farm,’ and it consisted of 38,000 acres with rich soil, a factory, and a mill. At the time, it was worth US$44.5 million. It employed hundreds of African-American labourers at minimal wages. Since 1968 it had been subsidised by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to the tune of $1.5 million.
The Queen was also known ‘on the market’ for employing Cortaulds as nominee for the purchase of American stocks.
In 1968 the two Congressmen had described in the Congressional Record, which is the official record of the proceedings and debates of the United States Congress, how the Queen obtained one of the world’s largest plantations from Courtaulds, complete with sharecroppers, in Scott, Mississippi.
What really unfavourably impressed the two Congressmen is that the person they thought was the wealthiest woman in the world, and a foreigner to boot, was receiving agricultural subsidies to run a plantation in the United States.
On 16 April 1970 Senator McIntyre, while introducing a bill relating to limitations on farm payments, said: “We paid the Queen $120,000 for not planting cotton on the farmland she owns in Mississippi.” Following the publicity, the Queen seems to have sold the plantation back to Courtaulds, but some believe Courtaulds merely exerted nominee ownership.
Then there is the matter of the apparent lease of Trident submarines from the United States. Briefly, the British government initially negotiated with the Carter administration for the purchase of the Trident I C-4 missile. In 1981 the Reagan administration announced its decision to upgrade its Trident to the new Trident II D-5 missile. This necessitated another round of negotiations and concessions. The United Kingdom Trident programme was announced in July 1980 and patrols began in December 1994. Trident replaced the submarine-based Polaris system, in operation from 1968 until 1996. Since the tactical WE.177 free-fall bombs were decommissioned in 1998, Trident has been the only nuclear weapon system which is operated by the United Kingdom.
Elizabeth Battenberg, it seems, has billion invested in the uranium industry – from the extraction to the application by companies such as Areva NC – formerly C.O.G.E.M.A., Bechtel, Halliburton, Westinghouse and the like. Huge sums, billions, are thought to be held by the Queen in Swiss trusts. She is said to have huge investments in the companies which build and arm the submarines, such as Lockeed Martin, B.A.E. Systems plc, a British multinational defence, security, and aerospace company with headquarters in London and operations worldwide. (BAE Systems selected as preferred tenderer to deliver Australia’s SEA 5000 Future Frigates).
It was left to Labour Prime Minister Leonard James Callaghan, Baron Callaghan of Cardiff, KG, PC, to announce that the British taxpayer would pay billions every year to rent American nuclear submarine missile systems made by companies in which the Queen and the Royal Family have large stock of shares.
But this is small change, if one considers the personal investment by the Queen in the nuclear industry.
In a paper which demanded six months of intense preparation and visits to different places and which was left, unfortunately in single copy, for typing, because of last minutes revision and corrections, with the organisers of the Socialist Scholars Conference ‘Ecology, socialism and human survival’ held at University High in Melbourne on 18 to 21 July 1991, there were graphs and figures in abundance. The conclusion was that through several and related ways the Queen held in 1991 between 22 and 23, 5 per cent of shares in the world’s uranium industry. By the way, the ‘socialist’ organisers did not seem very much interested!
There are glimpses of that view in another paper, also submitted to same Conference and by the title ‘Some gems of Australia Inc.’ One diagramme from that paper – even if dated – could help, perhaps.
The “Australian” institutional and private investors are mainly representative of the Queen’s interest in the industry through the ‘discrete’ participation in Rio Tinto Zinc, and in Conzinc Rio Tinto of Australia – as it then was. (V. G. Venturini, ‘Some gems of Australia Inc.,’ (paper) to Ecology, socialism and survival, Socialist Scholars Conference, 18-21 July 1991, University High, Melbourne).
The above mentioned figure concerned the mines of Namibia and Australia.
Namibia has an interesting and significant history: in 1884 the German Empire had established rule over most of the territory as a protectorate (in German: Schutzgebiet). It was treated as a German colony until 1915, when South African forces defeated its military. In 1920, after the end of the fist world war the League of Nations mandated the country to the United Kingdom, under administration by South Africa. It imposed its laws, including racial classifications and rules. Namibia obtained full independence from South Africa in 1990, although two areas, Walvis Bay and the Penguin Islands remained under South African control until 1994. (V.G. Venturini, ‘The political economy of grand larceny’, Namibia and the international trade in uranium, 44 Chain reaction, Summer 1985-1986, at 24-29, see also: V.G. Venturini, ‘Namibia and the international trade in uranium’, the inaugural paper presented at the Canberra Conference on Namibia, organised by the Campaign Against Racial Exploitation (CARE) for the United Nations Council for Namibia, 30 August-1 September 1985, Canberra); V. G. Venturini, ‘The diamond industry in Namibia and Ausralia,’ A Report for the United Nations Commissioner for Namibia (New York, 1988); and V. G. Venturini, ‘Argyle, Oranjemund and the diamond industry,’ (paper), for Namibia: independence and beyond, conference for the Asia and Pacific Region, 6 and 7 May 1989, Abbotsford, Melbourne).
The shameful complicity of Australia in what became known as the ‘Uranium cartel case’ – involving principally, but not exclusively Westinghouse (there were in fact Canadian, French, English and South African corporations deeply compromised) passed almost unobserved by the servility of the Australian government in whose premises the cartel had been conceived and organised (V.G. Venturini, Partners in ecocide: Australia’s complicity in the uranium cartel, with a foreword by C. Manning H. Clark, Rigmarole Book Publishers, Clifton Hill, 3068, Australia, 1982).
As it turned out, the Queen has a huge stock of shares in what is today the Rio Tinto Group, which is an Anglo-Australian multinational and one of the world’s largest metals and mining corporations. The company was founded in 1873 and in time it has grown through a long series of mergers and acquisitions to place itself among the world leaders in the production of many commodities, including aluminium, coal, copper, diamonds and uranium.
The corporation has operations on six continents, but is mainly concentrated in Australia and Canada, and owns its mining operations through a complex web of wholly and partly owned subsidiaries. Rio Tinto has joint head offices in London – as plc, and Melbourne – as Limited.
Rio Tinto Group is a dual-listed company traded on both the London Stock Exchange, where it is a component of the Financial Times Stock Exchange 100 Index, and the Australian Securities Exchange, where it is a component of the Standard and Poor/Australian Securities Exchange 200 index.
No less than 28 other corporations, from Australia, Canada, South Africa and the United States were conspiring with Rio Tinto Zinc Corp.
The Queen has an enormous advantage over any other stock market operator: she is the world’s ultimate ‘insider trader.’ Philip Beresford, author of The Book of the British Rich (St. Martin’s Press, London, 1990) written in conjunction with the Sunday Times of London, has said that the Queen tends to invest in ‘blue chip’ stocks, including Rio Tinto Zinc, General Electric Company of Great Britain, Imperial Chemical Industries, Royal Dutch Shell and British Petroleum. Among the firms through which she has been investing are the former Barings Bank, the subsidiary Rowe & Pitman of the former S.G. Warburg – which is now a division of Swiss Bank Corporation, and what was the investment bank Cazanove, which became a wholly-owned part of J.P. Morgan in 2010. The Queen’s holding in Rio Tinto Zinc (R.T.Z.) was first discovered through a leak from a source at the Bank of England to Andrew Morton, who wrote the authorised biography of Diana, Princess of Wales.
According to Charles Higham, co-author with Roy Mozeley of Elizabeth and Philip (Doubleday, London 1991), the Queen is a major stockholder in R.T.Z., which, with her old friends at Anglo-American, then controlled 12 per cent of the world’s precious, strategic, and base metals and minerals. Forbes magazine also reported that she was a major R.T.Z. shareholder, as was the Bank of England. Higham quoted Sir Mark Turner, then chairman of R.T.Z.: “You’re running into problems of what the government is going to say about the Queen’s involvement. R.T.Z. is one of the great assets of the country.”
R.T.Z. was in on developing North Sea oil from the beginning. Writes Higham: “The Queen undoubtedly approved the heavy investment, which would enrich her in the immediate future.” Starting in June 1975, R.T.Z. and Texaco were spearheading shipments from the North Sea Argyll Field, to the refineries of British Petroleum, in which firm Queen Elizabeth is also believed to hold an interest.
Continued Wednesday – A cast of characters: The Monarchy (part 17)
Previous instalment – A cast of characters: The Monarchy (part 15)
Dr. Venturino Giorgio Venturini devoted some seventy years to study, practice, teach, write and administer law at different places in four continents.
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The Queens wealth is estimated by Forbes to be around five hundred million dollars US. A nice round sum but in these days of multi billionaires she is falling well behind. She is te eighteenth wealthiest aristocrat in the UK. Other aristos are worth billions. Look them up.
But we must nurture these toxic suspicions about our institutions and their history, because Marxists say we must.By pushing suspicion and mistrust in our own societies we weaken them. It it a propaganda war, but it isn’t new. It has been going on since the fifties courtesy of the Soviet Union and their Liberation Organizations like the PLO. All designed to destabalize and cause chaos.
And the use of terrorism was a purely Soviet invention. With the advent of nuclear weapons open warfare could not be risked except by client states in the ME. The propaganda was spread through Communist Parties in the West and it continues today through the Russian Federation and cyber warfare. Russia has been behaving like a blot on the landscape for more than a century.And the hard line Left are only too anxious to lend a hand. All because Russia is miffed because we don’t pay it enough attention. We don’t love it enough.We don’t recognise their specialness, their uniqueness and the fact that they should always be a mighty world power. Because they are entitled.
Bwahahahahahahahah.500 million Bwahahahahahahah. Yea right she probably keeps more than that in her matress.
But we must nurture these toxic suspicions about our institutions and their history, because Marxists say we must.By pushing suspicion and mistrust in our own societies we weaken them. Bwahahahahahahahaha. Phil gets revived by wife and again, Bwahahahahahahahahahah.
And the use of terrorism was a purely Soviet invention. Bwahahahahahahahah.
Karen Kyle must hear the rustle of white coats.
Karen was born in 2010.
It does make a change when contributors use satire in their bursts. We can’t take it serious all the time.
Forbes, owned by Murdoch, says the reduced figure.
Therefore it must be true.
Come on, Karen Kyle.
In twenty fourteen Forbes was sold to a Hong Kong investment group Integrated Whale Media. The Chairman and Editor in chief is still Steve Forbes.
Forbes owned by Integrated Whale Media, with Steve Forbes continuing as the Chairman and Editor in Chief. Integrated Whale Media is a Hong Kong Company.
July 14, 2019 at 12:55 am
Bwahahamawahahahaha. It would appear one of the straps on the straight jacket you are wearing, has slipped up around your neck cutting off the blood supply to the one cell you are confusing with a functioning brain.
You put up three paragraphs one of which cites Forbes as conformation and proof, that the Queen of England is only worth 500 million and two other paragraphs which are not only self opinionated shclock but, an insult to the intelligence.
Opinions of which incidentaly, are not worth the dignity, of a detailed reply.
She’s a strange one, Phil. Just can’t see where she’s coming from.
The AIM Network.
These Trolls are now everywhere. There has been a real push of late to rewrite history. Some of the debates are becoming tiresome. There is a concerted effort that has been going on for some time now, to try and convince people that Hitler was a socialist. You can’t make it up. Some right winger tried to tell me there were no right wing governments and death squads in parts of South America ever. I despair. As a total bit of useless information, I have been a muso for over forty years, In that time I have run across about four muso’s that were of the right bent. Thought I’d share that with you 🙂
I’m seeing that too, Phil. All of a sudden Hitler was a Lefty, therefore all us Lefties should be ashamed of ourselves.
Hitler wasn’t a Lefty. But you extreme Lefties have been trying to re write history for years. And because the basic facts of history especially in the ME are well known you are really pushing uphill…….and you will lose. The truth will out.
Of course he wasn’t a Leftie. Some RWNJs are saying he was, simply just to niggle us.
One wonders what those basic historical facts about the ME are. The Sykes-Picot agreement might be a place to start when looking at contributing factors to current problems.
That is the precisely the thing someone like Karen Kyle cant see or understand.
Ignorance in arrogance; arrogance in ignorance.
Reading the comments by one of the participants make me wonder if she is not Malcolm Roberts undercover.
Brainless and amateurish propaganda by people naming themselves here as Karen Kyle, perhaps a mob of right wing boofheads laughing it up, is rather obviously ridiculous, being totally unhistorical, accurate, factually based of even vaguely credible, that one wonders about honesty anymore. Probably the greatest terrorist organisation over the last half century, devious, secretive, aggressive, murderous, is the USA, though many are bad, imperious, deadly. Kyle’s “blot” in terms of Russia partly appealed to many under the tsars, but since then, Stalin, permanently persecuted by press and political perverts and profiteers in the west, tried to go his own way and the old regime was marginalised anyway. Former slaves, indigenous, peasants, helots, savages, serfs, outcasts and caste victims everywhere have a huge range of choice in futile hating, so many being corpses, long forgotten, betrayed, uncounted. So, right wing, left wing, centrally up him or herself, Kaye is obvious, useless, irrelevant, erroneous. Since William the Conqueror stole and murdered and sanctioned rape, violence, acquisitions, requisitions, assaults, demanding total obedience to self created glorification and superstitious based murdering, the present queen and her class of parasitical nobility and fellow travelling tory types have done well while others of us, robbed of a natural world with things freely available as a right, feel betrayed, oppressed, angry.
Dear The AIMN Network Re: She’s a strange one, Phil. Just can’t see where she’s coming from.
You will loose all credibility with a nameless cowardly ad hominem attack on Karen.
At least put your name to it, or your very own Profile Name. Nor do I like AIMN Guest Commentator profile.
Your attack on Karen is very Herald Sun.
‘ I’m seeing that too, Phil. All of a sudden Hitler was a Lefty, therefore all us Lefties should be ashamed of ourselves.’
Indeed. I tell you one thing I’m not ashamed of and that’s my support for the PLO. What else in the M E. Karen Kyle is banging on about has got me stumped. She says the basic facts of the M E are well known? Well I guess that’s the only thing she got correct. They are well known alright and our part in those facts, is nothing to be proud of.
Karl, you would not be aware of Karen’s comments that don’t pass moderation.
Do have a look at the magazine Foreign Policy an article entitled “Don’t Blame Sykes Picot for the ME Mess”. It is good and clear and factual. The comments are also interesting reading. A variety of opinions including the standard Marxist line. Marxists, the Arab peoples and the hard Left and Russia love Sykes Picot. They blame it for everything while ignoring two thousand years of ME history. Not very sensible.
There is a good article on Sykes Picot on the website Foreign Policy entitled “Don’t Blame Sykes Picot for the ME Mess”. The Arabs, the Russians and the hard Left love Sykes Picot. They blame it for everything. The article is good and clear and factual. The comments are also good, a variety of opinions including the standard Marxist line.
The comment I agree with points out that the Ottoman Empire was in terminal decline for four hundred years and was therefore undeveloped and backward. They tried hard and seemed not to be able to accomplish much. The whole area was poverty stricken and backward. The Brits and other colonial powers took railways, electricity and running water and modern medicine to the ME. Colonialism like everything else wasn’t all bad. The thinking behind Sykes Picot and other agreeents was an odd mixture of idealism and venality. In other words normal.
And the people of the ME had no experience of government. They were administered by the Caliphate in small administrative blocks…..the only way to manage such a huge area. They have not been through centuries of experimentation war etc on the road to learning and implementing effective government. That’s why autoritarian rule, warlords and violence.
And even authoritarianism isn’t new. Have a look at the life of the eleventh century Persian Poet Omar Kyam. He was a brilliant Mathematician from a poor family. His education was paid for and he was encouraged by others including religious. Finally he was offered a geneorus stipend and given a beautiful apple orchard and in return he had to agree to take in students which he did. But things went bad…..extreme religion becme the norm…..mathmatics were banned and he had to conduct his classes in secret. His poetry The Rybuyit..spelling….was his way of rebelling against that oppressive regime. It is thought that his students wrtote down his poetry and had it published later. If he had been caught teaching maths he would have lost his head…..literally.
I’m wondering what this article has to do with the ME.
Karen Kyle, there aren’t many articles on this site – no matter what the subject is – you try and turn it into a discussion about the ME.
I’m growing tired of it.
I think Karen reads to much ‘ Rudyard Kipling ‘
Phil, we all need to read more of the Scottish masters. Aye?
Phil, we all need to read more of the Scottish masters. Aye?
Aye ma lad. I have one of the first copies of Burns. It has been done in ‘ Gold Leaf ‘ The book is beautiful much like the poems it contains. Last year although not Scottish I visited the cottage of William Wordsworth some of his works were inspired by his home no doubt..
My favorite is again not Scottish. Charles Dickens. He inspired a lot of my politics. I was born a short walk from his own place of birth. I wonder what he would have made of the likes of Donald Trump and Morrison?
Phil, all you need to know is; “Freedom and whisky gang thegither.”
Everything else is incidental. 😜
You totally lost me at that lie “And the use of terrorism was a purely Soviet invention.” Takes me back to my childhood in the 1950s listening to ‘The Voice Of America’ on shortwave radio or even closer to home mr Santamaria on local am radio. Crikey, even as a 10yo one could recognise propaganda.
“Freedom and whisky gang thegither.”
Aye dammish I be and blammish I must be on a dram oh Whisky.
‘ ‘The Voice Of America’ on shortwave radio or even closer to home mr Santamaria on local am radio. Crikey, even as a 10yo one could recognise propaganda.’
‘ This is London calling ‘
Lord Haw Haw. A tad too young for that one.
Radio Peking was the best. Loved it. They made bullshit a science.
Paul Davis….If you Google Terrorism and the Soviet Union you will find a good Wikipedia entry which is condensed and dead accurate.You might also consider the work of Ion Mihal Pacepa and Vasily Mitrocken. Pacepa was the head of Romanian Secret Police and Mitrocken was the head archivist for the KGB in Moscow..
Alexander Sakharvsky was the KGB General who was responsible for develping plane hijackings. He claimed the credit with pride and he trained Yasser Arafat and cohorts to carry out all such operations. And they trained, equipped and armed Arafat who was taught by the Soviets for years. Arafat also went to Vietnam for training and talks with Ho Chi Min. And seeing Arafat is likely to have died from Polonium poisoning according to an investigation carried out by Al Jazeera, where his body was exhumed……it is likely the Soviets murdered him. The Soviets reframed the Palestinian issue building it up into a national issue for an Arab people who had no national identity and few had legitimate claims to Palestine until it was manufatured for them. True some Palestinian Arabs had lived in Palestine for a long time. Most had not. Arafat himself was Egyptian, although he claimed to be everythng from a Jebusite to a Phillistine..This was done by the Soviets to generate hatred for Israel and the USA and it was backed by a massive propaganda war. The Six Day War and the Yom Kippur War was the work of the Soviet Union entirely. Charming bunch..
Conspiracy theory paranoia.
Nothing to do with the Zionists expropriating Palestine from the Palestinians though?
If you google terrorism without the Soviet Union filter you will find a wikipedia entry that disputes the claim that the Soviets invented terrorism. It mentions the 1st century Sicarii Zealots, who killed prominent collaborators with Roman rule, the 11th century Al-Hashshashin who assassinated city governors and military commanders in order to create alliances with militarily powerful neighbors, and the 19th century Fenian brotherhood in Ireland. There were the Sons of Liberty in the US, the Gunpowder plot in the UK and the Reign of Terror in France. And many many more examples. Sure, the Soviets are not innocent bystanders but they did not invent the game and they are NOT the only players.
Kaye Lee……..Yes there are examples of terror used throughout the world, usually over one issue or grievance and therefore localised and usually short lived. The Soviets elevated Terror to a permanent state, not only in the ME but also domestically. The Gulags,the Lubyanka, showtrials, torture executions and assasinations. The Russian Federation continues this form of terror tooday is a somewhat less intense form. Putin continues to assasinate political opponents and Journalists as well as former spies. But then Putin was a KGB man.
The question of Palestinain Arabs is a vexed question. At the time the Brits took the mandate after ww one there were seven hundred thousand Arabs living in Palestine. Many were newcomers. They began to come into the area in numbers in the mid to late nineteenth century about the same time the Jews began to come in,although there were some old Arab families who had lived in the area for two or three centuries. The Jewish population of Palestine was very small, but Jews have always lived in Palestine.
A Scottish photographer spent two years taking photos which are still in existence and show Jewish women praying at the Western Wall. The photographs also illustrate the extreme poverty of the area and the relatively sparse population. The conditions in the Holy Land were well known in the West owing to the numbers of pilgrims and tourists who visited frequently.
There were six well populated cities in The Holy Land but the countryside was not well populated and there were specific reasons for this. Malaria was a problem in some areas and swamps had to be drained to fix the problem. There was a thick layer of sand covering the soil, and the area was plauged with trbes of roaming Bedouin who generated a lot of fear Enough to keep the countryside empty which no doubt suited the Bedouin. Arab farmers the Fellahin crowded together in large villages for protection and armed themselves through village militias. It was a bit like the Wild West.
The question of the appropriation of Arab lands by the Jews is valid only up to a point. The Arabs took the land by conquest and occupation in the sixth century. Arabs are indigenious to the Arabian Penninsular. Jews are indegenious to the Levant which includes Palestine. DNA testing is a remarkable tool for answering questions.about origins…
Kyle, you just so don’t get it… it comes down to this. In the end we are all human beings and so suffering becomes the issue. Why cannot you see the forest for the trees?
Ask not what people can do for you, but what you can do for them.
Don’t encourage the women. I presume it’s a women.
This women thinks the historical texts she reads to inform her and make an opinion are the only ones available.
The formation of modern day Israel is well documented, I like the British version.
The land belongs to the Palestinians and may I add Christians who at the time the Jews started to pour out of Europe far out numbered any Jews living there.
I didn’t bother to google it I have a book in my small library that gives ample information.
The Balfour Decleration of 1917 was the catalyst for modern day Israel.
It is titled ‘ The British Empire and Commonwealth ‘ By George W Southgate. 1961.
Btw all the bullshit about DNA is crap. My Grandmother on my fathers side was a London Jewess.
If my DNA was tested looking at my build I am probably part Ape. A little joke. Don’t milk it.
Lambert Siimel……………………Yeah it is all about suffering. The Jews had two thousand years of it, culminating in the Holocaust.Now the Palestinian Arabs have been getting it in the neck for seventy years because of disasterous leadership, fanatacism, and being used as political pawns by the Soviets to fight their self indulgent self interested battles. About time it stopped don’t you think?
Phil……you need to read a bit more widely than one small reference. And your remarks about DNA surprises me. A bit like climate change denial, or someone who just wants to deny any facts that don’t fit his favourite false narrative..
Modern terrorism can be dated to the bombing of the King David Hotel in 1946 by Irgun, led by Menachom Begin, amongst others. Not content with getting their own country…’untimely rip’t’ from its inhabitants.
Before you accuse me of being anti Semitic I’d point out that the Palestinians are Semitic too, and I am quite sympathetic to Jew, surrounded as they are by people that hate them.
July 15, 2019 at 7:33 pm
Listen in…. I have read enough books on the Jewish Diaspora and indeed the Jewish Holocaust the weight of which would no doubt sink an English battleship.I can remember every German concentration camp in Germany and in Poland and name them with out GOOGLE. . My family has experienced it’s own Kristallnacht. This was before and after the war. Their business was attacked and may I add not by some trendy lefty they were hard right hooligans. My wife has visited the Ann Frank museum to leave a message for me whilst she was in Holland. My health did not allow me to travel at that particular time. I thankfully am not displaying anything that would tie me to the Jewish faith even naked, I am not circumcised. So I was not directly affected. Unfortunately my Grandmother and her sisters were not so lucky. My Grandfather was a mariner and he took my Grandmother out of London to get her away from the Oswald Mosely’s bully boys. Yes right wing Fascists.
You Madam have more front than a block of flats. You took it for granted the book I listed was the only book I’d read on the creation of Israel. Palestine belongs to the Palestinians and always will. I hope the situation is settled peacefuly because another book I have read is, the biography of Golda Meir who said she would see Israel go up in a mushroom cloud than give up an inch of the land that she didn’t own. Oh the irony. I have no doubt Netanyahu is probably of the same opinion.
The Jews have been in liberation movements all over the world, they sided with Mandela in South Africa and helped stop apartheid and gues what, they are working in Israel to stop the Zionist’s before they destroy the country they should all be living in – in peace.
Siding with the Palestinians is not anti Semetic or anything else.
Hey go do some more reading and slip me another burst.
Game, set and match.
Iran, by the way, has no nuclear weapons.
Israel has 300…
‘Iran, by the way, has no nuclear weapons.
Israel has 300…’
Thanks Jack. Yes Iran is the target of Israel through it’s proxy the U.S. For mine it is the very thought of Iran getting the bomb that has them in a lather. If Iran gets attacked lets all hope it doesn’t spread. I can’t see the Russians getting their noses rubbed in it again. It is heating up at the moment if goes off, may God if there is one? Help us.
President Truman when confronted by State Department officals who objected to the creation of Israel said “The Jews have to have somewhere to go” That was all there was to it. Truman had seen the death camps and his sleep was disturbed for years as a consequence.
Thank god for Truman. Thank god for the United Nations.The Jews did have to have somewhere to go and where else but their ancient homeland. To next year in Jerusalem, the Jewish toast,and “If I forget thee oh Jerusalem let my right hand lose it’s skill and my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth.One of the Psalms. And the habit of breaking a glass underfoot at a weddingto symbolising the falling of the Temple. Some of the fallen stones are still there.
And if the Arabs living in Palestine had better leadership,and if the entire Arab world has not worked itsef nto a demented froth being whipped up by imported ant semitism, firstly by Nazis and then the Soviets the entire outcome might have been different..
The Brits encouraged the Arabs to set up an agency like the Jewish Agency to prepare for a State.The Arabs wouldn’t do it. Then the Brits took Arabs into their own administration to teach them. It didn’t work. How many times has the world bent over backwards to help solve the problem. Even the Arabs put forward a peace Plan at a meeting in Beruit. The day before that was going to happen there was another attack by suicide bombers in Israel…..of course Yasser Arafat was innocent. He didn’t know anything about it. Yeah right.
And you do seem to forget all the suicide bombings, the car rammings,the knifings and shootings still going on today. The sound of one hand clapping.. There are two sides to ths terror story and you leave half the equasion out. And this is a typical propagandist tactic.Just never mention the half of the story you don’t want aknowledged or discussed. It is all about the bad treatment of the Arabs by Israelis isn’t it?. Forget the murderous terrorism of Arabs willing to be used by the Soviets and willing to use their own people as pawns and as human sheilds.These Arabs deserve little sympathy.They deserve to be picked up by the scruff of the neck and shaken. The best thing that can be said about them is that they are childish..
The Israelis have every right to be where they are. And so do some of the Palestinian Arabs. But not five million of them. That is just plain ridiculous..
‘The Israelis have every right to be where they are. And so do some of the Palestinian Arabs. But not five million of them. That is just plain ridiculous..’
More dogs vomit. Give it a rest you’re wrong, end of transmission.
I have forgotten how many times the Palestinians have been offered a state . Four or five times…..more? The answer s always no.Now they are down to Trumps suspicious Deal of the Century…….but at least there is money attached. A lot of it. They should take the money and run, their people need it….but they won’t…
I have lost track of the number of times I have read reports of Israeli troops bulldozing existing Palestinian habitations to make way for further expansion of Israeli territory through the establishment of illegal settlements.
I guess the fact that anyone on the globe who is recognized by Israeli authorities as a ‘true Jew’ has the automatic right to settle in Israel artificially inflates the population of the Jewish ethno-religious enclave state, means that there is an ever-growing need to expand their territory to accommodate the influx of ‘Jahweh’s chosen people’.
At least these modern Israelite conquests are relatively mild in atrocity when compared to the tales of divinely sanctioned territorial expansion, achieved through unprovoked military invasion and invariably accompanied by acts of genocide and ethnic cleansing (usually of other ‘Semitic’ people), that are glorified in the Talmudic/Biblical fables.
Karen Kyle: “I forget how many times Palestine has been offered a state”.
The reason you forget how many times is because you cannot recall when a sincere proposition was put. For obvious reasons.
Nonsense. At first the issue was not settled because neither the Arabs or the Soviets wanted it settled. The propaganda value was just too good and hatred againt Israel and the US so easy to whip up.
Over time this situation has changed. Jordan and Egypt made peace with Israel and Egypt switched from being a Soviet client to becoming a client of the USA. The cost of two wars manipulated by the Soviets was a terrifically high price to pay. There has also been the huge cost of maintaining the Palestinians as refugees through UN Relief and Works program which is managed and run entirely by Palestinians. The cost has become unsustainable especially as the nunber of Palestinian refugees keeps increasing owing to the unique habit of counting their children and grandchildren as refugees no matter where they were born. The situation has been made even more dire by the big influx of Syrian refugees which is breaking the ecomonies of Lebanon and Jordan. Jordan is the only country which has granted citizenship to Palestinian refugees, although they continue to be counted as refugees.
The Arab countries are sick to death of the situation. They promise large amounts of money to the Palestinians and then don’t follow through with the exception of Quatar. The European countries are the same and over the last decade or so less and less money has been made available.. And finally Trump cut American funding altogether. The situation is a mess and the Palestinian question is now a constant source of irritation to many Arab countries which breaks out in the Arab press fairly often. Many Arab countries are experiencing economic problems including Saudi Arabia and they resent spending billions on Palestinians wiith no end result.
To make matters even worse no one wants to settle the Palestinians. Jordan paid the price for hosting the PLO with hijacked planes landing in Jordan and an attempted militaryy take over of the country. Jordan had to fight a war to get rid of them. And you might be surprised to know that Israel defended Jordan against a planned Syrian attack when the Syrians were coming to the aid of Jordan and Jordan had no hope of fighting the PLO and the Syrians. And there was the devastating Civil War in Lebanon which was only resolved when Yasser Arafat and the PLO were kicked out.Nobody wants them and it is not hard to see why.
The Syrians were coming to the aid of the Palestinians. Not Jordan. Sorry.
Sorry Karen. It is not the only thing you need to apologise for as to that last posting, but if you can’t identify the various mistakes, not much chance of me succeeding.
You are not clear. And you should be.
Karen, has George Fishman retired? Have you now taken up the zionist mantle in the never ending mission of badgering and hectoring the goyem on any public forum where there may be any whiff of censure or criticism of yahweh’s chosen people and their right to stomp on the faces of any that offend them. George’s allotted brief seemed to be confined to the letter pages of the Sydney Mourning Herald, perhap your assignment is AIMN. Looking forward to your continuing insightful unbiased enlighting contributions. Cheers.
I love this blog it has something for everyone. Beautiful stories about the Australian bush, informative well researched and backed up with links, facts, about the Royal parasites. One line witty retorts from Mr Taylor and sad but informative posts by our expert on all things Aboriginal Kaye Lee and a gentleman that obviously loves history like my good self. Mr Jack Cade. Then there is the SATIRE . This amply provided by a one Karen Kyle. I haven’t read anything this good in a long time. Well not since Spike Milligan passed on. Peter Cook and Dudley Moore would have loved this satirical look at the ME. Yes imagine if you will Tommy Cooper, doing this shtick with his Fez hat. I myself love it, although now getting on in years and having a bit of trouble with the old plumbing, I have to use an incontinence pad before I read it.
Phil, the only reason I do one-liners is because that is the extent of my intellectual capacity.
Two lines make my brain wobble. A paragraph would make it burst.
And thanks for loving us. You’re always welcome here.
Now … I’m up for a wee dram. 🥃
And thanks for loving us. You’re always welcome here.
Now … I’m up for a wee dram. 🥃
Aye I love a wee dram. Me to. Too much me thinks. Or is that the Cheese and Kisses.
On a serious note, this is the best blog on the net. No risk.
Thanks, Phil. Your cheque is in the mail. 🤑
Very funny chaps. But none of you have put up any kind of argument. Can it be that you just can’t?
‘ Very funny chaps. But none of you have put up any kind of argument. Can it be that you just can’t? ‘
When you put up something that is factual and not a load of self opinionated Schlock, then someone may engage you.
My comments are factual. You could verify them in five minutes. After all knowledge is at your fingertips on the net. But you won’t. You don’t want to. Use your computer. That’s what it’s for……..then you could start reading genuine valid history written by scholars with international reputations rather than propagandists.
Your comments are opinionated bollox. Valid history wtf. Go away. Now you are talking bollox.
Look up Black September nineteen seventy. That’ll do for a start. Shouldn’t be too taxing.
Yea all good check.
A Palestinian refugee camp has been under siege for more than 1,660 days. Hundreds of the camp residents have been killed, while tens of thousands have been forced to flee from their homes.
Author: Khaled Abu Toameh.
Did incidents like Black September occur as retaliation for the oppression of Palestine by israel and the USA?
Don’t like that one try this one.
Oh wait there’s more.
No more no more.
Yep. I get it. All my links are leftist propaganda on the other hand yours are all factual, squeaky clean, no room for any doubt.
Ah vey enough already. Now it’s time for drinkey poohs.
But really, what is it that might provoke Palestinians to react violently against Israelis?
The rationale about Israel entitlement to occupy Palestine after centuries of living and prospering (or not) elsewhere, if carried to its logical conclusion, would allow all members of all diaspora to walk into an identifiable ancestral thread, and walk into – say, Norway – and say ‘Fck off, Norwegians, my ancestor Sven Bellend left here in 855 and I want it back. You can stay here, though, I’ll build a shed for you and build a fence around it. it will be your own place!
Until I need it for my cousins…
Or marauding Scousers (I am one – not marauding – not yet, anyway) re-colonising Ireland.
History teaches us that almost all of us came from somewhere else, but very few of us have been granted our own country by the UN. Don’t the Kurds, for example, of all the ME ‘tribes’, deserve their own, gazetted and generally endorsed, own country? Few peoples are more valiant and more deserving.
I am not anti-Jew. Far from it. I admire their intellect, their humour, their diligence, their everything. But Jewish people living in Russia for 1000 years have no claim on land their ancestors may have wandered around 2000 years ago but which has been occupied by Palestinians since before the Common Era. Being anti-Netanyahuism is not being anti-Semitic.
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Jack Cade………Do stop talking nonsense.The same tired old Marxist/Arab line and it is wearing thin. A small nunber of Jews have always lived in the Holy Land, especially in Hebron, the site of the Tomb of the Patriarchs and the site of a maaacre of Jews by the Arabs, and in the Galilee as well as Jerusalem and various other places.
I draw your attention to Marbo in Australia.I draw your attention to the UN Rights of Indigenous People.The Aboriginal people who made the Marbo claim were few in comparison to the rest of the population. In order to prove the claim they had to demonstrate continious occupation of the land. They went back as far as living memory would take them, about three gererations and that was enough because their history was well knwn and scientifically understood. The same applies to the Jews in Israel, their history is well knwn and scientificall understood thanks to archealogy, scripture which is a kind of historical document and DNA testing.
The Jews could have so easily had themselves declared Indigenous. They didn’t because Arabs make the same claim which is not verifiable but is part of the propaganda war. Had the Jews officially been declared Indigenous it would have thrown further fuel on the fire of the ME.
The Islamic faith is playing an important role in the situation. When the Arabs conquered The ME and North Africa as well as making inroads into Europe in the sixth century they were very surprised by their success. After c couple of hundred years they began to believe that Allah was the reason and it was His will that the entire area should be Islamised and Arabised which is what they did. They believe that once land has been conquered for Allah it can never pass out of his possession which explains in part the desperate savagery of the attacks on the Israelis. If they fail Allah maybe they are locked out of Paradise for all Iknow. But, if they kill the interlopers they will gain Paradise.
An entire Islamic theology has developed around the Israel Palestinian situation.If Abraham was a rightous man, then he must have been a Muslim.. He can’t possibly have been a Jew. And Islam did not come into existence fourteen hundred years ago. Islam has always existed. Arabic is the language spoken in Paradise and increasingly Jesus was a Palestinian Freedom Fighter. God give me strength. That is rewriting history, religion and culture..
I don’t read your posts, Karen. It saves time.
Karen..much as I like your spitting of vitriol rants, I see above that you talk of the followers of Judaism : “Jews” as if they were or are an actually ethnicity…when really all they are and ever have been is a cult of followers of a religious belief…even the one named ; “Jesus” was reffered to by the Rabbis of the time as a “Nazarene”…which, if I am to accept Edward Gibbon’s translation/explanation of the word, is that it is a slander..a term of abuse…much like we of today would call someone a :”Bogan”…and perhaps in times to come that word too will be misconstrued as a name of a tribal group….hang on!!
And sure, there would have been “Jews” in the middle east through the ages, much like there were Zoroastrians (sp?) and any of the other multitude of faiths at the time…didn’t the Romans dedicate a temple (The Pantheon) to all the known gods of the time…?..But even the holy books of Judaism were, I believe a complete hotch-potch of bits and pieces until around the second century AD. when Josephus called a council of Rabbis in Rome to unify the texts so they could show a solid front against that other fast rising cult of the time ; Christianity….they lost!
As a matter of fact, if I read it correctly, at the time of the second “Jewish” wars, all Titus had to do for victory was to wait until the feuding tribes of Jews killed each other and then move in on a “mopping-up” operation…always were a touchy congregation..
Now go back and rewrite your thesis..and this time use some stronger language or no-one will take you seriously…
Personally, I am inclined to have a second look at Tacitus’s explantion of the origin of the followers of Judaism…there just may be something in it!
To others…..thanks for the standardised Marxist/Arab line on the question. I am familiar with it. It is a good idea to take some of the heat and emotionalism out of the question so that the issues and problems can be more clearly seen and understood.
Try Governance of the Gaza Strip.
International Aid to Palestine.
Time to rethink but not abandon International Aid to Palestine.
Realism and Restraint America’s New Foreign Policy.
It is a good idea to have a look at the Hamas Charter. There are two versions. The earlier one sets out the aims of Hamas without pulling punches. The second version is milder, but not much.There is plenty of good material available that has the necessary degree of dispassionate objectivity from the countries that handle Aid to Palestine to US Diplomats with decades of experience in the ME. They have interesting and insightful things to say. And they don’t think America is great.They are too hard headed and experienced to fall for that trap. Many are worth reading or listening to. And then of course you can read the good histories.
Note to self…; No Christmas card to Karen K. this year…..BUT..I may send a Rosicrucians phamphlet…They are an “all-inclusive” ethnicity ; The Rosicrucians…
Joseph Carli……The Jews wrote their own Bible. It took them a thousand years to do it. And yes it is composed of many parts, some of fthem very old indeed.Some parts date to well before monotheism. They began to write it while in exile in Babylon.Thats how they became “The People of the Book”
It is a nasty bit of Left propaganda to insist the Jews are not an ethnic group. The science is very clear European Jews have about thirty percent European blood caused by the migration of single males from the ME. They took European wives from the general population but then married within their own communities. Genetic solidarity the geneticists call it. Their DNA is markedly different from the poulations they lived among. Trying to rewrite history again. It cant be done..
‘ To others…..thanks for the standardised Marxist/Arab line on the question. I am familiar with it. It is a good idea to take some of the
heat and emotionalism out of the question so that the issues and problems can be more clearly seen and understood.’
Unlike your typical rancid right wing, righteous, ridiculous, tepid load of self opinionated Schlock.
You come on this blog with an air of superiority with, the confused idea that you and only you and the other so called experts on the question of Palestine, are the only definitive recourses worth reading and they are to be taken as the gospel on the issue.
You really aren’t aware of how condescending and your attempt to keep repeating the mantra of Marxist/Arab line and how obsequious, you think we are.
Now in my opinion, Palestine belongs to the Palestinians and yes the Israeli’s , I can’t make it any clearer for you. The sky is blue. The sun unless Trump does something stupid, will come up in the morning. Unlike your certainty, it only belongs to the Israeli’s. Now the Israeli’s can either share the land in equal proportion with the Palestinians or, they can all sit and watch it go up in a mushroom cloud together. Peace is the only option. Btw people like you are part of the problem not the solution. As-salāmu ʿalaykum
It’s a bit rich for someone to talk about standard lines and then call people Marxists. Seriously chuckling here.
“People of the Book”…is that the George Costanza book on the history of Israel…two words…: “Pitchkin dim”…
“For a more scientific take on the Jewish origin debate, recent DNA analysis of Ashkenazic Jews – a Jewish ethnic group – revealed that their maternal line is European. It has also been found that their DNA only has 3% ancient ancestry which links them with the Eastern Mediterranean (also known as the Middle East) – namely Israel, Lebanon, parts of Syria, and western Jordan. This is the part of the world Jewish people are said to have originally come from – according to the Old Testament. But 3% is a minuscule amount, and similar to what modern Europeans as a whole share with Neanderthals. So given that the genetic ancestry link is so low, Ashkenazic Jews’ most recent ancestors must be from elsewhere.”
From the ninth to the twelth century the Mediterranian slave trade was controlled by Jewish traders who ventured up the Danube and into the valleys of upper Europe to get slaves and they left some droppings of their religion there…
Great stories in that Bible…y’know..staffs into snakes and the dividing of the Red Sea and all that sort of stuff…almost the things of fiction…
“Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control, to Sarah (Lurie) and the writer and Zionist activist Nathan Mileikowsky.”…….it’s all fake..
‘ “Benzion Mileikowsky (later Netanyahu) was born in Warsaw in partitioned Poland which was under Russian control, to Sarah (Lurie) and the writer and Zionist activist Nathan Mileikowsky.”…….it’s all fake..’
Warsaw where the Jewish leaders selected their own people to be put on trains, to be exterminated.
This being excused in the film Exodus.
The record of Zinonists collaberating with Nazi’s is written in the record of history for posterity for all to see.
Karel Kyle must think we all live under a mushroom. For mine she is probably a Yank hence her idea we Australians are all uneducated oafs, just like average Americans. Who are currently being led into their own failiure.
Karen is Australian. She has told us before that she was Bendigo Trades Hall Council secretary.
She is a brainwashed, unquestioning, robotic zealot.
“. . . she was Bendigo Trades Hall Council secretary.”…….another person who had had enough of her bludgeoning zionistic zealotry got the idea to sit her behind a desk in a building and placed a shingle of the above title on the desk…she sat there every day for ten years with not one person ever approaching her to ask any inquiry…then she retired….satisfied that she had lived a fulfilling life contributing to the community….she now does crochet for a hobby….she is currently up to page 337 of a crochet’d St. James Bible facsimile…
‘ Karen is Australian. She has told us before that she was Bendigo Trades Hall Council secretary.’
Well ya don’t say? This explains what happened to my beloved Labor party. Maybe? I am allowed one long bow.
Very interesting link Joe. My daughter has just done her DNA. I will soon know very roughly how much of each race’s blood runs in my veins. My wife who I love dearly, thinks it will mostly show Ape.
A tad too late for you, Phil..but a word of caution to others..a Genealogy site who conducted DNA testing for tracing one’s family history, found that many who did the test found to their horror that the person they thought was their father turned out to be another!….a percentage of between 5-25 % were shocked…and it seems one village in England had up to 33% different parentage..those poms!!…hence you may remember my story on those lines..: https://freefall852.wordpress.com/2018/11/13/write-again-blue-eyes/
Joseph Carli……The young fellow who did the research and wrote this article is right out on his own. It is what you call a theory and a minority opinion. There is a good Youtube video which is in line with the accepted thinking based on many studies In .fact Jewish DNA is the most studied DNA in the world..
It is called “The Origins of the Jewish People, DNA Genetic Research. It is very interesting. Enjoy.
July 18, 2019 at 6:36 pm .
My dad is confirmed by blood tests from medical problems years ago and I am the spitting image of my old mum. So I am safe. But unlike some, for mine there are more important things to worry about. I wouldn’t mind finding out that say Gough Whitlam was my father. Of course if was say Bob Menzies,suicide isn’t so bad.
Karen…I am not that interested in Jewish heritage or destiny to do anything than a memory search on the subject, for I am certain that in the scheme of the universe, there being no possibility of anything eternal or anything damnation, who, what or where a bunch of desperate god-botherers come from or go to will be irrelevent..
Go in peace….your destiny is already a piece of history.
No…..it isn’t a good idea to delve into somethig thatmight upset your applecart.I do understand.
” .I do understand”…..well…THERE’S a first!
Just to be accurate the video is called “The Truth about the Origins of the Jewish People DNAGenetic research Youtube
Phil, I’m guessing 50% ape and 50% whisky.
Let me know if I’m close.
” “The Truth about the Origins of the Jewish People DNAGenetic research Youtube”….ho ho!…it sounds like a LNP heading for a Bill before parliament!
Phil, I’m guessing 50% ape and 50% whisky.
Aye Whiskey’s right. In another life I used to lift weights. I certainly looked like an Ape. I will let you know about the DNA.
There is no doot about the Scottish. My old dad had flaming red hair and he would rather have a brawl than sexual intercourse.
What is it with the Scots and fisti cuffs? I must research that one day.
‘The truth about the origins of the Jewish people…’
Is he the bloke who reckons the moon is hollow and that it rang for 40 minutes when ‘they’ (unexplained) exploded a bomb on it?
You lot know Venturi # 17 is up. There, is more evidence.
Forget about Kyle, you are being trolled.
Forget about Kyle, you are being trolled.
You are right. But to be honest, the penny has only just dropped.
I am tempted to concur about the trolling when Karen suggests we listen to a corporate propagandist like Jon Eptine as a source about the origins of Jewish people.
That, more than anything, proves to me that Karen cares nothing about the credibility of her sources or she’s having a lend.
I think, having a lend.
Kaye Lee I do care about the credibility of my sources. Obviously this one was a mistake. Thanks for pointing it out. I didn’t know anything abpot this man but I liked his clarity. He is a good communicator.and what he has to say fits with what most Geneticists have to say, including tthe DNA search for the Cohenim.
Fair enough Karen. It’s a good policy to check the credentials of people before you pass on what they say. Being a good communicator is the first prerequisite for being a snakeoil salesman.
Karen…et al…When it comes to ancient..OR medieval western history, you have to spend much more time than a Google search and read…the disconnected pieces of the puzzle of this or that people, migration or conquest and occupy demand a lot of actual hard-copy reading of history tomes…a LOT of reading over many years…I quote Theodore Mommsen and Gibbon most of all, because these two out of many gave their entire lives over to their passion for history…and they had access to many libraries and books which have since been lost or destroyed by war or inferno…Mommsen’s own library totalled over 45,000 volumes which were mostly lost when his house burnt down..a situation he never recovered from…
When you read many primary sources from ancient times, cross reference the translations and read, read, read the many interpretations of those primary sources, you begin to recognise a pattern of population shifts, reasons for those movements and policies around those patterns…the dots start ot join and a certain familiarity with the subject gives one the “know” of certain moments of historical importance…They say that Gibbon took on the political and persona of a Roman citizen when he wrote his magnificent magnum opus. But it takes a long, long time…and I certainly would NOT totally rely on any Googled “historian” born this side of the 20th. century…..they all have too much political flesh in the game.
Google is useful mostly to check facts.And quickly. Historians do most of the interpretation of what is known to be fact. And there is no definitive history. It keeps changing, so if you read a history wriitten in the early twentieth centuury it might have been accurate given the knowledge at the time. But every time new research is done, new archives are opened and archealogy makes new discoveries and the science of archealogy improves the entire historical picture shifts. Sometimes the shifts are radical and we are on the cusp right now of further radical changes in our understanding of history thanks to photographs from space which show hundreds of buried cities of antiquity and such photos have even demonstrated the holes in our knowledge about Rome.
Yep, any history should always be considered using the indefinite article (A) and not the definite article (THE). What we call History is a human construct – destined to be written and rewritten as new perspectives are brought to bear. And great care should also be taken with so-called primary sources because they are not free from subjectivity either.
Here’s Wiki on subject.
As KK points out.
That’s not to say – one history is as good as another. Some are better than others. More insightful etc.
Matters not…a very post-modern perspective…: ” … there is no definitive history. It keeps changing, …”…..does it?…the aquaducts are there still…have they changed their geographical position?…the Colloseum?….the Pantheon?..Hadrian’s Wall?…no, they are all there in the same original place..and therefor all primary source histroy associated with them, around them, about them could be considered pretty solid..same as the Roman forum, senate house…the records of other cities and the many players in those cities…England, I believe is still in-situ, Pompei is re-excavated along with its story…and sure, Tramalchio’s feast may have a touch of poetic licence attached to the glutonous descriptions…but then there are so many other ‘feasts’ of the times that back that up…you just gotta read the right histories…the right books…it’s all there..you can’t make it go away or dismiss it through a casual post-modernist white-wash….
Some prominent people have claimed to get all
of their history from Shakespeare…
You should ALWAYS seek the alternative point of view. I spent my childhood watching cowboy pictures, hating the Indians and revering John Wayne…
Then I read Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee
‘The white man made us many promises, more than I can remember …but he only kept but one. He said he’d take our land, and he took it.’ Red Cloud.
And John Wayne? A serial draft dodger. ‘
‘John Wayne loves wearing US uniforms, so long as he gets them from studio props.
– John Ford.
As s child, I loved the Wind In The Willows. . Still do. But about 25 years ago I read Wild Wood, by Jan Needle, written from the perspective of the creatures that were Moley’s and Ratty’s Betes Noir. And I realised that Moley and Ratty were arselickers, fawning over the worthless – but rich – Toad.
I have learned to make up my own mind about everything on life, and CHOOSE to be guided by people whose ideas I like, not their prominence or influence.
When you read the history of England, you find a handful of Kings that have bad reputations. William Rufus, John, Richard 111. And if you dig, you find that their greatest enemies were churchmen.
And who wrote the history??
I’m sorry, I don’t know what that was all about…I’ll call nurse.
History is about a good deal more than the ancient built envioronment. It is what it all means and people even get the ancient built environment wrong. Often we just don;t know…..like Stonehenge and all the other henges for that matter. And we have yet to work out the Pyramids in Egypt and South America. Those are primary sources which tell us nothing certain.
Karen Kyle assertion that history always changes is because she herself is a revisionist bullshit artist.
She tries to rewrite it for her own prejudices and because the Zionists are loosing the PR war over Israel. They have come to the conclusion they can’t kill all the Palestinians, so they are trying to convince the world, Israel actually belongs to them only.
Yes modern science can change minor parts of history.
Some have tried to rewrite it. David Irving comes to mind, a well known holocaust denier He is probably one of the most dangerous authors of all time. He of course is one of the darlings of the right as is, David Duke. To name a couple. Irving being well educated and articulate is very convincing. As is Duke no doubt, a mentor for the deranged Trump. Both knowing how to capture the attention of right wing imbeciles much like the good Doctor Goebbels and the master himself Hitler. To Jack Cades reference to Wayne. Not only a draught dodger but a well known strike breaker. Wayne a bit like Reagan who is actually on record as saying he was flying bombers during WW2. When in fact he only appeared in adds for war bonds. The right give me strength. Btw I didn’t need to Google any of that.
Karen K….: ” Those are primary sources which tell us nothing certain.”……that’s because you are coming from a position of an “outsider looking in”….As a long term builder, I can tell you how the pyramids were built..stone by stone..also Stonehenge and others…as a tradie and labourer on multi storey building sites I know the physicality of construction..I know the power of lever and pulley and I know the sweat and tears spent in hoiking bales…There is no mystery in these things, it is just physics..and when one has to move the unmovable from one place to another with little more than muscle and mental concentration…you soon become quite saavy to the physics of necessity!
The primary sources may not fill in the detail of those structures, but they were built by other humans and a human then as now has the same capacity for thinking and lifting and a kilo of stone then as now would..I believe…still weigh the same…the only thing missing is the why?…but then the hieroglyphics can tell us that.
I am not talking about how they were built, although it is said we don’t know and I don’t doubt that you don’t know either.I am talking about what they mean and their intended purpose.
Karen…on the latter of your comment, I would think we were quite certain (in the main) as to what purpose these structures were built…on the first part…I DO know how the pyramids were built and I worked that out over twenty years ago…also am reasonably certain as to how those obelisks in the ancient world were stood up from the horizontal to the perpendicular…it is no great mystery if you had to labour with large objects and seeming insurmountable lifting with minimal resources…it is all a matter of physics…and many a working person is familiar with similar problems in their workplace….it is just that the problem has been cogitated over by the wrong people who have consulted with the wrong “professionals”..