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The people are getting uppity and Scott doesn’t like it

When the crossbench moved to end the shameful practice of holding innocent people hostage in the pretence that this is a valid way to keep our borders secure, Scott Morrison went ballistic.

“I will do everything in my power to ensure that these suggested changes … never see the light of day,” Mr Morrison said. “I will do whatever I can. I will fight them using whatever tool or tactic I have available to me to ensure that we do not undermine our border protection laws.”

And what were these dreadful changes being proposed?  That refugees that we have incarcerated get the medical treatment they need.

We can’t have that now can we.  Because if we actually looked after the people who came to us seeking our help, it would render our navy and border patrol forces impotent to stop the fleet of fishing boats just waiting to set out from Indonesia.

Which raises a few questions.

If our defence and customs security can be foiled by a few fishermen, then why are we spending hundreds of billions giving them state of the art equipment?  And why didn’t the armada set out in response to the hundreds of people who have already been brought here for medical treatment?  Or after hundreds were resettled in the US?  And if the government knows the number of asylum seekers sitting in Indonesia ready to board a vessel, why aren’t they setting up a processing centre there and shutting down the smugglers?

How about those pesky kids, missing school to express their anger and despair at the older generation’s inaction on climate change.  They must have been put up to it by radical lefty socialist teachers.  They should be in school doing some rote learning about how wonderful Western civilisation is rather than emulating the dole bludgers by protesting.

That young lady who wrote to the PM about her disappointment at the standard of behaviour in parliament should stop worrying her little head about grownup tactics that she couldn’t possibly understand.

And then there are those uppity women who are objecting to being objectified.  If Sarah Hanson-Young wears a dress that shows a portion of her upper chest she should expect to be ridiculed.  How can we take anyone with breasts seriously?  She was obviously asking for people to focus on her tits.  What was she talking about again?

If women can’t stand the heat of men bullying and slut-shaming them, they shouldn’t be in parliament.  And if they happen to be there, any idea that a conscience vote means you can vote with your conscience about things like a woman’s right to terminate a pregnancy will be viewed as a mark against you come preselection time.  Understand?

And what about those Indigenous people who think they should have some say in policies that affect them?  They have no right to interfere in whatever Tony Abbott has planned for them because he obviously knows best.  More truancy officers, more gaols, mandatory sentencing, tougher penalties for dole infringements, income control with pocket money dribbled out, pay the people that are forced to deal with them a bit more, and make them move to where services are.

Then there is the “gay agenda”.  They weren’t happy with just being allowed to marry the person they love – they are trying to stop all discrimination against people based on their sexuality or gender identity.  Surely they understand that Christians must be allowed to vilify people on the basis of their interpretation of an ancient book that has been rewritten over centuries by men with their own agenda.  Homosexuality is unnatural.  Praying to mythical beings whilst engaging in mock cannibalistic rituals is, on the other hand, the rock on which society is built.

The Coalition cannot understand why people are not satisfied with the fact that some people are getting much richer.  Company profits are at record highs after all.  Women and children should be happy that the men are taking care of things.  Indigenous folk should recognise how much better off they are since the white man took control.  And gays should be thankful we no longer lock them up.

After 27 years of continuous growth in GDP, and a surplus budget sometime soon, surely people appreciate that the government is doing its bit.  If you are not well off, it’s your own fault for being born to the wrong parents.

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109 comments

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  1. Joseph Carli

    Y’know, Kaye’…I reckon I got a pretty good sense of humour…I can laugh off those silly slogans that seem to come in an endless loop from LNP headquarters somewhere…an’ I can giggle at that slight over SHY’s “exposed flesh”….and those school-kids with their pre-pubescent voices calling attention…AND RIGHTFULLY SO..to address climate change…I can smile at that…well the indigenous and the refugee situations are to be taken seriously…….But I tell you what…after listening to Hannah Gadsby getting stuck into “good men / bad men” on that dais the other day….I just gotta shake my head and say that the day we hetero’ men gotta take advice on how we behave or who draws the line in the sand toward women..from a butch lesbian….no bulshit…I’ll take up ballet dancin’!!

  2. pierre wilkinson

    I loved Penny Wong’s response to Matthias Cormanegger insistence that Labor does not want to discuss the government’s policies; she simply articulated that they would love to discuss the government’s policies, but the government seems not to have any policies.
    Meanwhile, as the government gets shriller, louder and more self indulgent, Labor appear to be rational, quieter and more confident.

  3. Kaye Lee

    That’s very tolerant of you to be able to laugh off those silly kids and women Joseph. Yup, who could accuse you of not having a sense of humour. It’s great that you are lending your support to the serious stuff.

    And how dare Hannah Gadsby accuse good men like you of deciding what is ok and what is not ok. If you want to ogle women, they have no right to think that is not ok. Because you know you are a good man so nothing you do could ever be offensive and if a woman says she is offended by a strange old man ogling her while she shops, or by old male Senators making snide schoolboy comments about her sex life when she is at work, she is wrong. Just ask the line drawers.

    Aside from being a “butch lesbian” (which apparently makes your opinion worthless to some), Hannah is a very smart woman. And I doubt you would have the strength to be a ballet dancer Joseph.

  4. Kaye Lee

    pierre,

    I agree. I think Labor are doing well. Shorten has made a kind of subtle move, allowing the Coalition to destroy itself. They don’t need to do negative campaigning. They can continually show up the government by talking about policy and legislation, or the lack thereof. The ideologues have no comeback. I also admire Penny Wong but am still hurt by her abandoning Julia Gillard.

  5. king1394

    Meanwhile Australian Border Force employee numbers are to be reduced over the busy Christmas period, while ‘ a fleet of fast-response Border Force boats deployed to combat security threats in the Torres Strait have been pulled from service. The boats respond to suspected activity such as unauthorised boat arrivals, smuggling of goods and illegal fishing on a maritime border considered particularly complex and challenging.’ Presumably the Federal Government would like to see an influx of boats during the pre-election period. Or could it be that they don’t really believe their own propaganda?

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/leaks-show-border-force-slashing-airport-staff-at-christmas-as-budget-cuts-bite-20181206-p50km9.html

  6. terence mills

    There seems to be an unhealthy interest among coalition parliamentarians in what women are wearing in our parliament these day, reminiscent of the middle-ages when men spent a lot of time deliberating and pontificating over what they considered deficiencies in women’s attire which they found diverting and perhaps arousing.

    Not only was Sarah Hanson-Young criticised for having her boobs on display in what was clearly a modest summer dress but ABC journalist Patricia Karvelas – one of the more incisive and astute political journalists in Canberra – was the subject of a call to arms and asked to leave the parliament for exposing too much flesh in a short-sleeved summer top.

    Is this the Liberal party bringing its quaint ideas on sexuality into our parliament and demonstrating that they have a very real problem with women ?

    The question has been posed in other circumstances as to why members of the National party don’t have sex standing up…………because, they say, it may lead to dancing !

    Incidentally, I note that Peter Dutton has had two weeks sick leave from parliament due to a wrist injury : what do they get up to in Canberra these days ?

  7. Josephus

    Brilliant article, so angry and so apposite. Carli seems quaint and prejudiced, though he has a right to speak of course.
    For me the worst is the insult to our First Peoples. Not in my name! And, second, the cruelty to vulnerable humans shut up on stifling and hostile islands. Why don’t these callous politicians get on a boat and go back to where they come from- Italy, Greece, England, Mid East, wherever – if they feel the need to raise the drawbridge and prevent others from, er, ‘having a go’. Yes this island has not enough water for 50 million humans, but that being so, what the hell are idiot governments doing allowing megalitres of water to be used and polluted by foreign mining companies? Not heard of drought and climate change have we? Ship of Fools- ie those who govern us thanks to the votes of fools. Or rabid newspapers/radio ranters.

  8. Brad Golding

    Dear ScoMo!

    If you want to keep our borders safe have you considered the idea that NOT joining the bloody yanks in their criminal wars that create terrorists might be the way to go?

  9. Joseph Carli

    Kaye…overlooking your puerile attempt to cast me in the light of one of your “most hated males” categories, perhaps…just PERHAPS…some of those “older men” that are in the shopping malls are NOT “ogling” women, but just admiring their natural beauty…
    And I would accuse you of seeking to place some of men’s internal cogitating on the womanly ideal into the “thought-crime” basket.
    And thirdly…I see you do a lot of “leaning on the legitimacy” of Hannah Gadsby’s opinions…AND..I might observe…the general social yardstick of attitudes toward many things…perhaps you could share a few of your own original thoughts with us instead…

    And ; Josephus..if I am “quaint and prejudiced”…what are you..: “ordinary and compliant” ?

    ” Aside from being a “butch lesbian” (which apparently makes your opinion worthless to some). . .”……….Oh yes, like you’d get your everyday dress sense from a drag queen!

  10. New England Cocky

    Lest I be called out as a male chauvinist let me ask the question,”Why do women in Tamworth tolerate men with a philandering lifestyle, especially as their representative in Parliament? Is cherry-picking Christian “family values” appropriate in the Country Music Capital, you simply ignore all those tenets that do not fit your preference? Then will the National$ recognise that the “Family Values” they espouse of Adultery, Alcoholism, Avarice, Bigotry, Hypocrisy, Misogyny and Racism are unacceptable in 21st century Australia?

    Oops!! Silly Me!! The National$ are the party you have for a 19th century future when women were kept, barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen ….. while the “man of the house” went down to the river for a bit of brown sugar.

    Women supporting Adultery support National$

  11. Kronomex

    Joseph you are an overbearing obnoxious loudmouth, a perfect member of the race known as the LNP. Like Karen, you just keep going on and on and…ad nauseam. Just for once make a comment or two then either shut up or find another thread to pass your version of judgement on. Reply if you like but I won’t be coming back to this thread.

  12. Joseph Carli

    I only made two comments!!…

    And, Kronomex…a depth of intelligent discourse the like of yours demonstrated above will be greatly missed!…and anyway..what is a “kronomex”….a supremely accurate Mexican stop-watch?

  13. Kaye Lee

    Perhaps you didn’t listen to Hannah, Joseph. She wasn’t giving make-up tips. She wasn’t talking about how to look pretty so men can admire your natural beauty (rolls eyes).

    As for me sharing my original thoughts, I do some of that….but I often share the thoughts of those who have made me think….which is exactly what Hannah did. Her speech made me uncomfortable…but it made me think. At times, it is worth listening to others.

  14. helvityni

    The boats have stopped, our scare-campaign of keeping people indefinitely on Manus/Nauru has worked….

    Now, how come the boats have not changed course and gone to NZ instead ( directly), after all NZ has openly stated that it is willing to take some….

    Why hasn’t our Government let the ones still on Manus to go to NZ, their offer still stands, I don’t think Trump is too keen to help, he might even suggest that the ones now queuing on Mexican border ought to be flown to Oz…..I take yours, you take mine….

    Seeing it’s almost Christmas, let’s muster some Christian spirit and take them here, the ones who have been in detention for five long years, some kids , their lifetime, so far..

  15. RomeoCharlie29

    I am a WHOMP, my own term for a white heterosexual old man of privilege, the privilege arising from having been born with the other four attributes, and I did watch Nanette ( I might be off track though and having been OS for the past five weeks missed something else of hers) and I found it both moving and thought-provoking. Joseph, I wonder what it is about her, apart from your obvious feelings, that makes you unable to consider some of her observations are both apt and accurate. I am an inveterate appreciator of women’s bodies and appearances but I try to appreciate discreetly rather than to ‘ogle’. My wife says that’s ok, especially since I have stopped wolf-whistling and shouting points scores at any passing woman.yeh nah, just joking about the last bit.

  16. helvityni

    Yes, king1394, I think they are secretly praying for more boat arrivals.

    ” Presumably the Federal Government would like to see an influx of boats during the pre-election period. Or could it be that they don’t really believe their own propaganda?”

    Pierre Wilkinson, I too love angry Penny Wong, go girl!

  17. Joseph Carli

    RC…I have not the slightest animosity toward Gadbsy’s observations…there is much to be admired in her comedy..as you, yourself spoke…but as to her observations being apt AND accurate…I do think her generalisations as falling into the category of simplistic..but being of that populace appeasing standard that gets one applause with the “outraged set”..
    That’s my opinion.
    ” . . . since I have stopped wolf-whistling and shouting points scores at any passing woman.yeh nah, just joking about the last bit.”…….and even there, with your male “line-drawn in the sand” right to joke about women…YOU TOO have committed an unforgivable faux pas…..I await your “execution”.

  18. David Bruce

    I am deeply offended by the lack of political acumen from the Australian Government. Where are the statesmen and women of yesteryear? Has there ever been such a cluster of service to self MPs in the Australian Government? Are they the best politicians money can buy? I am deeply offended that every day I am subjected to the abuse, the rants and the despicable behaviour of the morons who claim to be our leaders! Are they being blackmailed by the Murdoch-Cheney-Rothschild consortium? I was obviously mistaken when I thought we had government of the people, by the people, for the people in Australia! How long will Australians continue to let this shambles continue? If we continue to follow the lead from the 5 eyes +1 agencies, we better be prepared for the Samson option!

  19. helvityni

    RomeoCharlie29I, I’m an unashamed appreciator of all things beautiful; paintings sculptures, buildings, gardens, men, women, babies, faces of sweet wrinkled old ladies, fresh youthful faces, cats, dogs, horses ….etc…etc…even well-designed fashion French/ Italian…

    And why should I not, I had a fantastic art teacher at high school,also my mum was an excellent dressmaker, creating beauty of scraps,… Flowers on the dining-table, picked from paddocks, or summer garden…

    I have the ‘best’ garden in the neighbourhood, created mainly from cuttings, given to me or boldly picked/nicked from other peoples gardens…

  20. Kaye Lee

    helvityni,

    Appreciation of beauty is a balm for all of us. It can be the beauty of a sunset or the beauty of kindness. It can be the beauty of discovery or the beauty of forgiveness, the beauty of generosity or of music. I am overly sensitive to discussion of beauty in relation to the human form because I have seen the damage that it does to people who think it is important or who feel judged against some superficial standard they cannot achieve.

  21. Kronomex

    Your opening attempt at being witty nearly raised a golf clap, keep practicing. I know I said I wouldn’t come back but
    “… “kronomex”….a supremely accurate Mexican stop-watch?” Get some new material, I seem to recall you’ve used this line, or something similar, before. It’s just a nickname I’ve had for years that is made up of Krono(s) and Mex(ican), put them together and you have Kronomex (which started as a username for a SF newsgroup I joined in 1996 or ’97).

    If you must know where Kronos comes from then look up https://study.com/academy/lesson/kronos-the-titan-in-greek-mythology.html
    There you go, you can go happily to your grave knowing that it’s not “a supremely accurate Mexican stop-watch” as you put it.

    “Kaye…overlooking your puerile attempt to cast me in the light of one of your “most hated males” categories…” Kaye doesn’t need to point it out all, you do a pretty good job of pigeonholing yourself in that category.

    And…

  22. David Evans

    Well I’d suggest he had better get used to it, it will only increase until he calls the election.

  23. Michael Taylor

    Wow that was a great post, Kay. Brilliant. 👍

  24. Paul Davis

    Cheers Kaye 😃

    Joseph Carli, you never fail to disappoint, perhaps you and your ego should “get a room” as they say.

    Gee whiz, imagine, a woman and not just a woman but a comedienne, an actor, a lesbian or trisexual whatever, has an opinion and expresses it publically.

    Border Force budget cuts? Reduced protection over the holiday season against smugglers, illegal au pairs and other deviants? Surely this can’t be right! The CEO of Qantas mr dribbles has a suggestion that might help, he is asking staff to volunteer at airports during the peak xmas busy periods.

  25. Joseph Carli

    Well, Paul..and others who disapprove of yours T. …..I suspect you know the biological geography of the human body…go kiss it!

  26. helvityni

    Kaye Lee, I bore you all here with my calls for empathy, compassion, and help for those who need it, pensioners, disabled, homeless, asylum seekers.. I don’t judge people by gender, age, their home address,or race ….

    I would like that all folk here would behave civilly, I was attacked yesterday here by a person with whom I never interact with for obvious reasons…

    I was half thinking alerting the Moderator.

  27. Kaye Lee

    helvityni,

    I think most people here are calling for empathy and compassion and help for those who need it. I am sorry if you felt attacked. I have been away for a while – house renovations. I am living in a construction zone while trying to keep my dogs away from the tradies.

  28. Wam

    The pm et al believe only exceptional women can think like men. The rest are kitchen fodder. Only exceptional women can overcome the god given handicap of menstruation.
    Women should be able to expose the beliefs of these men who hide behind religious freedom protected from scrutiny.
    A very catholic, very intelligent, very aware women answered my query as to how conservative Christians could be so callous. She said their conservatism is stronger than their Christianity.
    How sad when the men and women of the current government cannot allow themselves to see the nature in ‘gay’, the love in marriage and the value of women above the neck.

  29. Carol Taylor

    Morrison’s problem is that he fears losing control of the issue. We can all harken back to Howard and subsequent Liberal leaders about ‘strong borders’ and deciding who comes to our country. Ably abetted by the Murdoch media and a cowered Fairfax and ABC, covert racism became a security issue. But what happens when that security issue is watered down by it becoming a health issue? All except the extremists feel a pang of guilt when it concerns children needing medical attention. Morrison could not let this happen.

  30. Alasdair Black

    Get rid of local councils the most undemocratic and corrupt level of governance in this country, maybe the lower houses local state MPs should be ministers or mayours for their local areas, that would make them more responsible for local areas.

  31. Carol Taylor

    I see that due to house prices plummeting in Melbourne and Sydney that suppliers and tradies are now suffering. Surely this is a golden opportunity for Bill Shorten to promote his negative gearing changes – new dwellings = job creation, rather than churning of property for the benefit of those who can afford to wear a loss via negative gearing.

  32. Michael Taylor

    It bothers me that you were attacked on this site, helvityni. It was obviously something I missed. Please do not hesitate to email me and let me know who that person was.

  33. Diannaart

    Carol

    The time is ripe for Shorten to finally stop watching the LNP self destruct from the safety of opposition and offer real solutions and alternatives, yes, I am aware Labor does have actual policies. However, Labor must take a definitive stand on climate change mitigation, supply of essential services to the people, restore public education to the public, pull lobby groups into line, prevent infiltration of politics by religions, corporations or excessively powerful individuals.

    Nor can Labor achieve such goals in isolation. The LNP does not and will not “do” cooperation, Labor can.

    It is a sorry state when people largely agree on so much, yet continue to allow personal differences to divide and fracture us, from federal politics across to the 5th estate such as AIM.

  34. Michael Taylor

    Dianna, you can guess what Carol and I talk about over the dinner table (and just about everywhere else). Yes, politics. 😀

  35. Joseph Carli

    Michael..I got a complaint..In my first post, I criticised Hannah Gadsby’s interpretation of her talk and stridently stated that I for one would not hold her opinion above my own on the issue she discussed and I was subsequently abused, vilified and castigated by some I had absolutely NO connection with…I demand reparation…I don’t want to suggest what sort of punishment…sufficient to state that I have several types of horse-whips that could be most useful…

  36. Kaye Lee

    I wonder about us disagreeing Dianna. I think it sometimes prompts us to reflect, something which disagreeing with a conservative rarely offers.

    I balked when Hannah said there aren’t good men – until I listened closer and thought about what she was saying. Who gets to decide what hurts or offends them – the doer or the receiver?

  37. Kaye Lee

    I apologise Joseph. You would probably make a great ballet dancer.

  38. Kronomex

    Ah, Joseph, your comment started out being somewhat reasonable then it descended into being a “wronged” teenager (Trumpish behaviour?) throwing a tantrum. See what I mean about pigeonholing yourself. You do have a fairly thin skin.

  39. Michael Taylor

    There’s one group of people who work for The AIMN that deserve a little help …

    Every post, whether it be Kaye’s, Rossleigh’s, Binoy’s, Joseph’s … anybody’s … sees them taking to Facebook and Twitter to promote the post. Each post takes them a half an hour. We pay them to do this, but they bring lots of new readers and commenters to the site.

    Their work and great efforts are wasted if the commenters are turned away if they are mistreated here.

    We enjoy debate and the sharing of opinions. But we also enjoy respect.

    I am just as guilty of disregarding the latter if someone “dares” not agree with me. I need to address this. Perhaps I should start setting an example.

  40. Diannaart

    Michael

    I always imagined you and Carol collapsing in mirth over kittens and puppies.

    I stand corrected, you talk politics. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

    😋

  41. Kaye Lee

    Michael,

    One of the benefits of age is learning to forgive yourself and also realising that the self-improvement journey is a life-time exercise. I think we need to admit this more openly to our children. None of us are perfect. Every one of us makes mistakes. The important thing for all of us is to aim to improve. Instead of feeling bad about not doing well enough, I feel some enthusiasm about learning to do better.

    PS I think you and Carol and the admins do a great job here. It is much safer to converse here, even when we disagree, than ‘out there’.

  42. Michael Taylor

    Dianna, kittens and puppies are our weekness. 😻

  43. Diannaart

    Kaye Lee

    If we stop learning … then we may as well stop living.

    Disagreements between people who have more in common than not will always happen. I mean Carol might be a dog person and Michael prefers cats. I have a friend who once believed the entire “moon landing was faked” conspiracy, we remain strong friends after 20 years, working in the same industry, moving homes, having babies (well, one baby and it wasn’t yours truly).

    It is our differences which colour and strengthen our relationship and our hearts.

  44. ChristopherJ

    I am with Kronomix here, Joseph. You are out of line and everyone can see it. Yours isn’t the only view

  45. Kronomex

    “Let’s agree to disagree.”
    It’s a pretty good phrase to use in a number of the “conversations” that get a little overheated on this site.

    Anyway, I’m off to listen to Olias of Sunhillow by Jon Anderson while I continue reading Peter Hamilton’s new book.

  46. Topenda

    Fixed it: Every day we women gotta take advice on how we behave and dress or who draws the line in the sand toward women…no bulshit. 

    Joseph: “…the day we hetero’ men gotta take advice on how we behave or who draws the line in the sand toward women..from a butch lesbian….no bulshit…I’ll take up ballet dancin’!!”

    So you appear to be of the opinion that you are entitled to reject advisement of the impacts of your behaviour, but a woman is not entitled to point out those impacts. In other words, you don’t have to observe boundaries delineated by a mere woman? 

    Your true colours really are showing there.

  47. Joseph Carli

    ” Every day we women gotta take advice on how we behave and dress or who draws the line in the sand toward women…no bulshit. “…………And…is there a specific identification of who is giving “we women” such advice?…I mean..really..is it “us men”?..Is it some amorphous patriarchal society?…Is it perhaps other women who have been “conditioned” to act as agents for a patriarchal society?….I ask, because I have never myself given, heard of or seen anyone of actual identity “give advice”…
    Now, I do not deny there is social oppression on how women are expected to behave..there is social oppression on how men are expected to behave…but the complexity of relationships behaviour between men and women is of more deeper psychology than can be spat out in one simple sentence…
    It’s not MY colours that are showing here, but rather your pathetic banality.
    And my behaviour doesn’t even come into the discussion…or if it must, perhaps we can bring YOUR behaviour…suspected or speculated…into the discussion…hmmmm?

  48. Kronomex

    Answer me this Joseph; Are you married or in a relationship with a woman and not a blow up doll?

  49. Joseph Carli

    And that is the last comment I give on this thread…I would suggest that some of you move outside of your protective bubble and get some sort of half-life which will then be double the life you have now!

  50. paul walter

    Animals is a very strange topic.

    Back fifteen years, my mum thought I needed company and invited me out to take a look a kitten that had wondered into her yard. The last cat, my late girlfriends, had died a couple of years before, but I wouldn’t replace her

    “Yeah, yeah”, I thought on the train out to visit her.

    So, on arrival we did the normal thing, cuppa tea and talk. Then there was this gentle tugging at my shoe laces. It was the kitten.
    I knew straight away the battle had was lost and the cat retains me as household help to this very day.
    And what’s more I like it.

    Just as well, you know. After mum died of cancer a few years later, lucky for me I had her little orphaned dog and this cat for company.

  51. Topenda

    It seems that appearing to be a female poster was too much of a distraction for Joseph to actually get to the part where I pointed out the hypocrisy of his rejection of females’ rights to delineate boundaries while strenuously asserting his own.

    Ironically, pretty much encapsulating the issue.

  52. Kronomex

    I was serious about the first part of the question for a particular reason but I see your thin thin skin won out so won’t I bother explaining why I asked. Sarcasm a bit too much for you? It seems that it’s a case of you dish it out but can’t take it when it’s returned.

  53. RosemaryJ36

    At 82, I have seen enough of life to suspect that no one can ever imagine how anyone else sees life. I cannot understand women who love small children, for example, even though I have had three children (and, thanks to my eldest, 4 grandchildren – AND 3 great grandchildren!) and my personal supplies of testerone are way too low to begin to understand life through male eyes.
    I feel we need to stop criticising that which we cannot change, make helpful suggestions which might generate change when appropriate and generally accept that life would be intolerably dull if we were all the same.
    BUT – and it is a really BIG but – IMHO, we should NEVER go out of our way to hurt others, and if we do so unintentionally, we should try to make amends.

  54. Keith Antonysen

    Something beyond my comprehension is that the LNP are making a huge noise about the safety of Australians through needing to maintain Manus and Narau Islands, and a big noise about encryption. At the same time Border Force Officers are being sacked. That doesn’t make sense. Meanwhile, in domestic violence situations more murders happen in a year than in decades of terrorist attacks.

    Many of the LNP profess to be Christian, I believe their Bibles have the Surmon on the Mount torn out of their copies.

  55. Topenda

    I love your articles, Kaye – thank you for always articulating what I struggle to.

    I’ve been thinking for a very long time that it’s pretty apparent that the establishment has realised the building is on fire. They are just trying to fit as much as they can into their pockets and place as many time bombs as possible (to ensure the place can’t be rebuilt by anyone else), before leaving it until the very last moment to exit.

    The impacts on Australia and its people do not come into the equation at all, let alone the poor buggers in detention. There is ample evidence that the narcissists in charge have no f#cks to give about anyone but themselves, yet I have my doubts that even the latest debacles will stop people voting them back in.

    I hope I’m wrong, and it’s interesting that family members who share awful “patriotic Australian” themed posts on Facebook are now also sharing posts that are critical of the government. Perhaps there’s light at the end of the tunnel shedding light on the emperor’s bare skin. With a bit of luck it’ll be one of those blinding train headlights!

  56. Keitha Granville

    As soon as begin to use descriptors of people we are unfairly criticising – butch lesbian, gangs of African youths, Lebanese Muslim terrorists, Asian students – we immediately indicate our prejudice whether we know we have it or not. Do we ever read in the press, or hear on television, Caucasian heterosexual Anglican male – that would be never.

    Our Senators and MPs show us some of the worst examples of prejudice and discrimination, we pay them to behave like spoiled toddlers. Why is it that the clothes our female representatives wear are relevant ? Do we make comments about the male MPs who are overweight and wearing ill-fitting suits? Should the women wear suits to match ? Although maybe not, that didn’t help Julia at all.

    We are all human, we are all the same beings underneath our skin. Could we please raise the level of debate above innuendo, sarcasm and ridicule ? Surely our parliament deserves that respect.

  57. Kaye Lee

    I read an interesting article about the rules that MPs feel necessary to place on themselves in order to make them behave appropriately. Did they really need to have a rule to inform them that having sex with a junior staff member is inappropriate? Do they need a rule to tell them that knifing sitting Prime Ministers for no significant reason is not a good plan? Do they need to be told that claiming expenses to attend private functions is wrong? Do they have to have rules to tell them that calling each other derogatory names is not acceptable?

    It is easy to lie, cheat and steal or to blame and denigrate others. As individuals, we should set our own standards without having to be forced to do so.

  58. New England Cocky

    @Kaye Lee above: Well yes they do, but they cannot read them, education especially literacy is not a requirement to be a COALition politician. You have to be a (male) God fearing Christian prepared to cherry-pick Christian principles to suit your own personal deviances.

    Take the person representing the Notional$ in New England. He purports to be a Christian maintaining the “National$ Family Values” of Adultery, Alcoholism, Avarice, Bigotry, Hypocrisy, Misogyny and Racism plus expecting his mistress and bastard off-spring to be kept by the public purse rather than himself.

    So “Yes, there is a need for these rules tone written” they are just most unlikely to be read or observed by COALition politicians because personal pecuniary preferences will be thwarted.

    @Alaisdair Black: An excellent suggestion!! Presently there is a New State Movement operating in Nth Queensland and abolition of state government to be replaced by regional government based on Federal electorates would reduce the cost and duplication of interests.

  59. Andrew Smith

    Behaviour matches that found elsewhere:

    ‘They are radicals who “offer a false and misleading vision of the past … [and] conjure up worlds made up of ethnically or racially pure nations, old-fashioned factories, traditional male-female hierarchies and impenetrable borders. Their enemies are homosexuals, racial and religious minorities, advocates of human rights, the media, and the courts. They are often not real Christians but rather cynics who use ‘Christianity’ as a tribal identifier, a way of distinguishing themselves from their enemies: they are ‘Christians’ fighting against ‘liberals’ if there are no ‘Muslims’ available.”

    http://hungarianspectrum.org/2018/12/07/viktor-orban-the-neo-bolshevik/#respond

  60. Patagonian

    Some years ago I had to call a technician to my house to repair a dish washing machine. He was about the same age as me, 55 or so. While he was repairing the machine I made polite conversation with him.

    Walking down the passage to the front door after finishing the job we had to pass several bedrooms, all with closed doors. He suddenly turned to me and asked “Which one is your bedroom?” I was gobsmacked. There was absolutely NO reason for him to ask such a personal question in a situation where I was paying a fee for his professional services. I couldn’t get him out of my house quickly enough

    I did not make a complaint to his employer, but only because I was concerned that he knew where I lived and had somehow sussed out that I do not have a live-in partner, despite the fact that I am always very careful not to reveal any personal information or circumstances to any unknown male that comes to my home.

    So tell me Joseph Carli, was he a good man? Did he cross a line? No doubt he would say he was a good man and he certainly didn’t seem to think his completely unprofessional and offensive behaviour was crossing a line or he wouldn’t have said it. After all, had I complained to his employer he may well have lost his job. Nobody would take that risk by deliberately asking such an offensive question. But he DID cross a line and his actions left me feeling apprehensive – in my OWN home – for some days afterwards. That’s why women, butch lesbian or not, get to decide where the line is, not men.

  61. Roswell

    That sounds rather creepy, Patagonian. It would have sent a shiver down my spine.

  62. Joseph Carli

    Patagonian…I’ll have to presume that you are a woman..not knowing you and you give very little away…You also have not revealed any conversation you may have had with the technician which may have caused him to feel a familiarity toward you. But you do presume that there was perhaps some sort of attraction to you by him..hence the asking about the bedroom. As to why he would suddenly ask which was yours I can only hazard a guess…and that would be a subjective presumption…
    The other question I would ask is why you felt so threatened by his sudden question. was there a past experience in your life that re-awoke the trepidation?…was it a feeling of vulnerability?…Was it his physique that felt threatening?..Was there a certain inflection in his voice that gave you a start?…or was it simply that instinctive female intuition that alarmed you?
    There could be a plethora of singular things or all of the combined that threw you to get him out of your house…even though the simple reason could be that noticing the layout of the plan of the house from both the inside and seeing it from the outside he just may have blurted out a curiosity of rooms and their use…and his query of which was your bedroom could very well have been the simplest way of eliminating spare rooms and placing residential use of the house….Myself, as a builder, I have been in so many houses of both older, younger single and married couples..of both gender preferences…and just one glance around the interior tells me the layout of the house…except…whose bedroom lies where…THAT..if I am being employed to do work there is an essential…to both personal insurance against possible accusation and to respect the clients privacy.
    So his question..on the surface has two possibilities…; A) That he was just curious…B) he had a devious reason.
    But would that make it a reason for women..in majority and completely draw “the line”….In YOUR particular space..yes….in the majority..in my opinion…no.

  63. Kaye Lee

    There is no justifiable reason for asking that question. Of course it would make someone feel uncomfortable because it was completely unrelated to the job he had been employed to do. It would make me feel really creepy too. And is a perfect example of the conversation that Hannah has started. That guy may have just been curious (?????) but what he did was wrong.

  64. Topenda

    Joseph, who defines what is acceptable behaviour in relation to its impact on your own self? I mean that literally – who decides what is the standard of behaviour a third party must maintain so as not to encroach on your personal space or agency?

  65. Roswell

    There is no justifiable reason to ask that question. No excuse whatsoever.

    That someone it didn’t happen to has no problem with it, by no means gives it currency.

  66. Kaye Lee

    What men may not understand is that, partly because of the #metoo movement etc, many women are having flashbacks to situations that have made them feel uncomfortable (or worse).

    Decades ago, when I was waitressing a work Xmas do at a club, a guy at the party made a highly inappropriate comment to me. I told my boss that I did not want to serve his table anymore. He asked so I told him why. He went and complained to the boss of the company having the party and the guy got sacked.

    And I still feel guilty.

    Women are struggling too Joseph.

  67. Kronomex

    “So tell me Joseph Carli, was he a good man? Did he cross a line?” Two questions that required a simple yes or no from you that did not involve some creepy bullshit as an answer. You are pigeonholing yourself more and more as somewhat of a misogynist and bloody know-it-all with a soupçon of superiority complex.

    I will ask the question, again, that got you in a hissy fit: Are you married or in a relationship with a woman? Brave enough to answer or will you go all victim like you did last time and throw a tantrum and storm off in a huff never to return to this thread?

    And…

  68. Kaye Lee

    Kronomex,

    I don’t think that question is appropriate. Michael posted recently about the need for all of us to consider how we address each other. I agree with him. We have to be able to converse civilly with people with whom we disagree – or use the ignore option. I am no angel there. I am trying to do better.

  69. Roswell

    I have heard Joseph say he is married. We should leave it at that.

  70. Joseph Carli

    What makes women uneasy to the point of feeling vulnerable and unsafe is a pertinent reason to allow for some safety procedure to be put in place to alleviate disquiet..is fair request…the same as security in public places because of possible violent action is also fair request…and indeed, we give it to the authorities..but to give carte-blanche to those same authorities to delve into our personal lives or to have power to do random “stop and search” on the strength of a obscure threat is seen as a bridge too far..

    Certainly, women can these days call for men to hand over social control of what constitutes acceptable behaviour limits to them, but there is one small problem that will create a much larger problem with that solution…Laws could be passed to force the issue..as we now have laws that force acceptance of social/gender conditions that were not very long ago anathema to the bulk of society..However the one thing that will be a problem is the thing that has been the problem for a long , long time…: male instinctive aggression…..The force of law will work for a while, on the most compliant..the most educated to respect and obey laws…but in the end it will all go to the dogs..because containing feral males would be like holding a tiger by the tail !….and I suspect the escalating violence we see now in these random attacks is the first examples of retaliation from the most susceptible men who feel that those women close to them are “moving in” on their territory…ie; taking power / decision making from them by using other men- policemen / legal people- to suppress their perceived rights….hence the vicious striking out…But then that is only a theory of mine and could be proved as totally wrong…interesting line of thought though…

    You know…I can feel a post coming on!…But it is time to do the dishes and then to bed…so goodnight all.

    Of course I am married…two grown kids/now adults ..one grandchild…live in a house I built and worked all my life mostly in the building trade from the age of fourteen…….Second marriage ..btw….”superiority complex”?….oh Krono’ …there’s nothing complex about it! 🙂

  71. Matters Not

    Who gives a rat’s whether Joe is married or not? Or whether JC, KL, Roswell et al are simply pseudonyms. Surely we come to sites such as these to discuss ideas, principles, theories, opinions, moral imperatives et al. Why can’t we leave the ‘individual’ at home?

    Or is this a counselling service? (Just jokin..) And if it is, (or claims to be), perhaps it should be registered. (Shakes head.)

  72. Kaye Lee

    Joseph, that last post is deeply disturbing.

  73. Matters Not

    And for lots of reasons. But, on the positive side, I am assuming JC is a pseudonym and is just theorising.

  74. Diannaart

    The home is where most women are in danger by people they know, people they should be able to trust.

    The following basic statistics help demonstrate the prevalence and severity of violence against women:
    On average, one woman a week is murdered by her current or former partner.1
    1 in 3 Australian women have experienced physical violence since the age of 15.2
    1 in 5 Australian women has experienced sexual violence.3
    1 in 6 Australian women has experienced physical or sexual violence by current or former partner.4
    1 in 4 Australian women has experienced emotional abuse by a current or former partner.5
    Australian women are nearly three times more likely than men to experience violence from an intimate partner.6
    Australian women are almost four times more likely than men to be hospitalised after being assaulted by their spouse or partner.7
    Women are more than twice as likely as men to have experienced fear or anxiety due to violence from a former partner.8
    More than two-thirds (68%) of mothers who had children in their care when they experienced violence from their previous partner said their children had seen or heard the violence.9
    Almost one in 10 women (9.4%) have experienced violence by a stranger since the age of 15.10
    Young women (18 – 24 years) experience significantly higher rates of physical and sexual violence than women in older age groups.11
    There is growing evidence that women with disabilities are more likely to experience violence.12
    Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander women report experiencing violence in the previous.12 months at 3.1 times the rate of non-Indigenous women.13
    In 2014–15, Indigenous women were 32 times as likely to be hospitalised due to family violence as non-Indigenous women.14

    https://www.ourwatch.org.au/understanding-violence/facts-and-figures

  75. Kaye Lee

    I am still in shock at Joseph’s explanation for that Diannaart….

    “retaliation from the most susceptible men who feel that those women close to them are “moving in” on their territory…ie; taking power / decision making from them by using other men- policemen / legal people- to suppress their perceived rights….hence the vicious striking out”

    I cannot adequately answer that right now….or maybe ever.

    I am wondering where the “good men” think the line should be drawn there. Or maybe not. No-one else is responsible for what another person says.

  76. Roswell

    I can’t comprehend that. Even from another man.

    Joseph, I’m afraid you’re a black sheep.

  77. Diannaart

    My ex husband told me he hit me because I would not do as I was told.

    Not all men are abusive or sexual predators, but, given the statistics, a lot of “good” men have crossed the line.

  78. Roswell

    I’m saddened to hear he treated you that way, Diannaart.

  79. Kaye Lee

    Some men find women who don’t do as they are told very….what was it Tony said about gays….”threatening”.

    Tony and his crowd used to call me a communist feminist lesbian when we were at uni. At least I can smile at that memory diannaart….

  80. Diannaart

    Roswell

    I did love him once, but he systematically wrecked our relationship. I felt so little for him by the time I left.

  81. Diannaart

    Kaye Lee

    Tony Abbott … of course a woman must be a lesbian if she is not attracted to him or even holds a different POV.🤮

    Apparently the merit method of scrutiny in the LNP results in many easily threatened men

  82. Kronomex

    What I don’t like is the way he talks at and down to women and his comments can only lead to the fact that he appears to have issues with them as well, as evinced by his post at 10.41 P.M.. That is a very unpleasant little rant and stepped over the boundaries into an area of concern about his outlook. The persistent undertone of misogyny in a lot of his posts is also unsettling.

    Kaye Lee, don’t be surprised if he tries to laugh it off as just a bit of a joke and word play then change the subject.

  83. paul walter

    Are some of you not overreacting to Joe’s comment?

    Perhaps he is not endorsing violence, merely expressing his idea of what, in some circumstances, may be driving factors in some men, particularly when Tony Abbott or Alan Jones type megaphones stoke and drive the paranoia and fear.

  84. Kaye Lee

    The internet is a hard way to communicate but from just reading the words, I am horrified. Perhaps the intent is viewed differently depending on one’s personal experience….or gender. Or maybe I misunderstood….

  85. Diannaart

    I don’t believe Carli is endorsing violence as much as he is expressing a view that such behaviour is normal for some men.

    He also displays a lack of insight into the human condition, which appears at odds with his homely tales. Quite a contradiction.

    But don’t dare question, such temerity is considered “fightin’ words”.

  86. paul walter

    Yes, I know he hasn’t been at his best on this thread and I would hardly have commented if I had thought for a second he was endorsing rather than contemplating the dark phenomena with that last comment.

    I would like to think he does think such behaviour is not normal and instead wonders what drives violence against women in this so called enlightened era, unless he feels it an intrinsic thing in human relations.

    I do think it should follow that if it is the case, we may as well give up the entire concept of civilisation and change.

  87. Zathras

    Have the boats really “stopped” or are we simply no being told about turn-backs? I recall a Vietnamese boat managed to slip through and landed near the Daintree a few months ago.

    The glowing sales pitch Abetz recently gave about Nauru makes me wonder why refugees aren’t trying to reach that paradise instead of the Australian mainland and as long as we keep addressing the symptom (refugees) rather than the cause it will never end.

    It’s also interesting that in discussions about congestion in cities, the main causes (tourism, overseas students and foreign workers) are never considered – only refugees and immigrants.

    As for the apparent sentiment of social decline I think many people are no longer convinced that all that so-called economic growth has been to their own benefit.

    While it’s made some people much wealthier, most see themselves as worse off with further austerity on the horizon and an inept government that cares more about itself than anything else.

    It also seems to be a global phenomenon with growing unrest and dissatisfaction in many countries.

  88. Joseph Carli

    Ok..so you don’t like what I said back there on that last post…I was just telling you how it COULD work..not how it WILL work…But it seems that old maxim of “shoot the messenger” still plays out in these enlightened times…If I can convey anything across this ether to you, it is because I “see patterns” in history play out again and again…not ..as I have said so often..like the turning of a page in a book. but from reading the signs from archived literature…the “organic habitual behaviours” of people massed together in metropolis or suburb…

    I live out here in the wilds of the mallee..that may be my problem as much as my salvation…I sit here at this PC..in what I call ; “splendid isolation”…aloof in my retirement from the bothering crowds…yet, like the voyeuristic Quasimodo staring down at the bizarre behaviour of the crowds below his belfry where he too dwelt in “splendid isolation”..and here I gather around me a life-time of experiences, of work and interaction with customers and business-people…I have..probably..a couple of thousand volumes of varied literature about me and they teach me the limits of my capability to communicate online with that potpourri of words into images..to create stage-set pieces of infotainment…and stories….imagination is all.
    Nothing mysterious about it..I’ve told you all before..: I am a collector of souls!

    I am a collector of souls ,
    I hear people talk ; I ken,
    I see what they write,
    And I collate,
    I am the watcher on the rim of a far horizon.

    I do nothing more than listen to you, and others, all chatter and talk…I know your strengths and weaknesses..your fears and fearlessness…It is strange..I am very like my mother…in that she could just stand on a railway platform and people..strangers would strike up a conversation with her telling her their innermost secrets…even to the point of sometimes weeping on her shoulder…and I as a young child…a favoured child as she had a couple of miscarriages after I was born that (I now realise in my older age) made her hold me that much longer and closer to her as I was still a toddler..and she would tell me these things…and I think I must have absorbed the mood of her telling..so to speak..and indeed, I too “inherited” that “approachableness”.. in part…for women are more approachable when it comes to telling things or seeking comfort…but men would tell me “men things”..
    But I could go on and on…
    But here…here’s an interesting little article from 1951..post war American service men/women problem in occupied Europe… https://archive.esquire.com/article/1951/2/1/the-secret-of-love-have-american-girls-forgotten …and like the colonel says in the last words of the article..; ” I may already have said too much.”

  89. Kaye Lee

    “I do nothing more than listen to you, and others, all chatter and talk…I know your strengths and weaknesses..your fears and fearlessness”

    How extraordinarily presumptuous of you.

  90. Topenda

    It seems to me the more Joseph tries to demonstrate his superior knowledge, world views and omniscient understanding of the motivations of us mere scurriers down below him, the more he reveals about himself.

    When you look into the abyss, the abyss looks back.

  91. Joseph Carli

    ” How extraordinarily presumptuous of you.”…..It would be presumptuous if if so many were NOT so transparent!….It’s a beautiful thing is the internet…and I am like that kid who’s got control of the remote TV control flicking around and surfing the channels..getting saturated with cultural messaging…a bit like the random patterns in a matrix so that when you see so many, a readable pattern starts to emerge….You gotta remember, I have been trained and worked as a carpenter tradesman all my working life…a trade centred around measures and visual patterns of exactness…and finishes that must past scrutiny of the eye…well..it’s the same patterns there with words…there are only so many ways a thought or fear can be expressed…you can avoid it…skirt around it…but sooner or later, if you want to express it, there it is..down on the page..as bold as brass!
    I’m not being presumptuous…a little bit of calculated guessing perhaps…but just in the most parts joining the dots.

  92. Joseph Carli

    You see, topenda (where are you sited, I wonder)…that’s where I “win out” over many on this carnival of delight..I don’t care how far you look into me…I know the world runs on bluff…I can reveal my darkest soul…and YOU will not listen…YOU will not recall…because YOU are not really interested in people…just yourself..like so many others on social media…who in their effort to scramble to that high-seat of “look at me look at me!”…to be noticed, you have seen so little in the haste to get there…
    So go on…abyss me to death!….

  93. helvityni

    Zathras,

    “It’s also interesting that in discussions about congestion in cities, the main causes (tourism, overseas students and foreign workers) are never considered – only refugees and immigrants”

    I have wondered about that too, maybe the refugees are too big and therefore take more space on buses and trains…( only jokin…)

    Wasn’t Abbott also singing of the beauty of Manus…?

    Matters Not,

    “Or is this a counselling service?” LOL ( well, not a laughing matter really, I remember reading that one in four Australian is lonely…)

  94. Kaye Lee

    You are certainly right that I am not particularly interested in hearing about you and your darkest soul. I come here to talk to others about politics.

  95. New England Cocky

    @dianaart: I told my adult daughter when she was going through a tough time with her partner that when the violence starts the relationship ends.

    @Kay Lee: Perhaps the optimum remedy for Joseph Carli is to ignore his posts on other people’s threads.

    @Joseph Carli: “I am a collector of souls….. ” in Australia we call that a “self-serving egomaniac wanker little better than a pedophile priest”, and as twisted a person as the male character in Vanessa Redgrave’s :The Collector”.

    Your preference for verbally bullying the articulate ladies on this website, to the exclusion of any comments against any males, shows that you are truly a gutless misogynist and unworthy of having the right to comment here.

  96. helvityni

    …funnily enough, I attended an old friends Christmas party in Sydney yesterday, 26 of us altogether; three marriages still intact, the rest divorcees, who have not remarried, no partners either; age roughly from 35-82…

    One newcomer to the scene was a young male student, temporarily staying with the hostess…. It was him who made that hasty survey… caused a lot of laughter; maybe a student of statics, he ate and left … all too grown up ( old) for him…?

  97. helvityni

    New England Cocky, what about the Mistress of that Jewish girls school in Melbourne, she sexually abused her students…When found out she escaped to Israel ,now coming up with all kinds of excuses to avoid returning to Oz to face the justice…

    I feel sorry for those brave three sisters, and the other abused girls..it has not been easy for them, all that public attention on top of it all….

  98. Joseph Carli

    What many here are missing about the Hannah Gadsby talk, is where the REAL issue lies…Take another squizz at the bit posted here by Kaye Lee yesterday.. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-07/hannah-gabsby-slams-good-men-in-metoo-speech/10593564 …At a couple of points in the clip. the camera does a pan of the audience…freeze-frame on those spots and have a good look at just who the camera was showing in that audience….yes…solid middle-class America…and indeed Hannah was playing to her audience…sure..she was talking some “home truths”…but to whom?…In the end, Hannah was just another entertaining evening for many there…for, you see..and perhaps some homosexuals who grace these pages will verify what I say…heterosexual society…in the main…IN THE MAIN…has little truck with homosexual society…EXCEPT…and it is a very big except…except as a medium of entertainment…like many males who camp it up with outrageous high-camp personalities or in Hannah’s case as ” low-camp” grumbling and being outraged and speaking thoughts and deeds that most heterosexual women would not want to be seen doing..lest . . . and so the heterosexual community adopts many homosexual entertainments and entertainers..as kind of “pets”….Like Oscar Wilde, to pick a more outrageous personality….but be warned..just like Wilde, no matter how brilliant one is…the hetro’s will turn on them…and I’ll give you that little secret I was going to work into a post but have now declined….It won’t be the hetero’ males who will initiate the pogrom….it will be heterosexual women from the lower classes who will call for their men to “restore honour” to the cultural dignity of “true womanhood” …

    But I’m only speculating.

  99. Kaye Lee

    OMFG. “Pets”???? You are absolutely unbelievable Joseph. Do you consider your gay relatives and friends to be entertaining “pets”?

  100. Joseph Carli

    I wasn’t talking about “ME”, Kaye….please R-E-A-D the post..

  101. Kaye Lee

    I did read it Joseph and I am appalled.

    “heterosexual society has little truck with homosexual society except as a medium of entertainment ”

    “speaking thoughts and deeds that most heterosexual women would not want to be seen doing”

    “It won’t be the hetero’ males who will initiate the pogrom….it will be heterosexual women from the lower classes who will call for their men to “restore honour” to the cultural dignity of “true womanhood”

    You are expressing your own view Joseph. You most definitely do NOT speak for women of any description.

  102. Joseph Carli

    ” You are expressing your own view Joseph. You most definitely do NOT speak for women of any description.”
    For the first part of your post..Yes..and I said as much…for the second..And YOU DO do you?

    Anyway..I’ve had mt say and I’m out of here…I only came back to honestly as possible answer Patagonian’s Q’.

  103. Jesus From Above

    I think what Joseph was trying to say is that some Ignorant people may masquerade an acceptance of Homosexuals.Though secretly they abhor them. Like Hitler hated the Jews.

  104. Jesus

    And Joseph is correct context is everything!

  105. Fiona

    I can’t believe how personal these comments got so quickly. Can you guys not talk about politics without it descending into a bun fight? No wonder the government and the country are in such dire straits…

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