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The Democrats and Muellerisation

The psychic problems facing the Democrats continue to bite, and with their foiled efforts to see the full, unredacted report of the Mueller Report, they look distracted, confused and bitter. In politics, the sense of vengeance and retribution has a place, but without some restorative balance, cripples the actor. The Democrats can point to numerous contenders for the presidential election, but these are either going to peter out or result in public acts of self-harm before an awful realisation sets in: that Donald J. Trump may well win a second term.

Leaving aside that troubling, and mind-racking thought for the holy initiates of the Tweedle Dum Party there is a serious danger of a condition so enervating it risks submerging it. Experience, according to the classicist Gilbert Murray, should dull the edges of all our dogmas, but Muellerisation is a powerful condition. It may well be irresistible, and any survivors struggling to make it to the shoreline risk being dragged in by the tide, drowning in their angst about the monster in the White House and his all-inculpating Russian connection. In the meantime, the party can make good its duty to avoid anything remotely resembling policy.

The Democrats must have the document and more, pure and whole. The point here is a vain hope that something, somewhere hidden will have the weapon they can use against Trump.  But the obvious point in all of this, one pointed out by Glenn Greenwald, is one of degree: if there was evidence of Kremlin collusion (and the extent of it) suggested by some Democrats, Mueller would most certainly have had it by now. If he had not shown it “he would almost be guilty of treason.”  

The latest target of this entire endeavour is the Attorney General William Barr, adding yet another episode to the Mueller bonanza. The House Judiciary Committee took aim at the AG, drafting a resolution finding him in contempt of Congress for not complying with the subpoena to provide the full, unredacted version of the report and linked materials.

The subpoena itself is broad; the smell of sheer desperation that something, somewhere, will blow smoke or emit an incriminating odour is palpable. In addition to seeking the “complete and unredacted version” of the Mueller report, it also demands “all summaries, exhibits, indices, tables of contents or other tables or figures, appendices, supplements, addenda, or any other attachments” and, “All documents obtained and investigative materials created by the Special Counsel’s office.”

Trump, as he always does, went on to spoil their efforts, formally asserting protective executive privilege on Barr’s advice. The warning had been made in a Tuesday letter to the chairman, Jerry Nadler, from Assistant Attorney General Stephen E. Boyd.  “In face of the Committee’s threatened contempt vote, the Attorney General will be compelled to request that the President invoke executive privilege with respect to the materials subject to this subpoena.”

With the committee not being particularly responsive, Barr’s advice to President Trump followed in his May 8 letter.  “In cases such as this where a committee has declined to grant sufficient time to conduct a full review, the President may make a protective assertion of privilege to protect the interests of the Executive Branch pending a final determination whether to assert privilege.”  

What strikes Barr as relevant is broad-brush nature of the claim, a grab-for-all in demanding “all of the Special Counsel’s investigative files, which consists of millions of pages of classified and unclassified documents bearing upon more than two dozen criminal cases and investigations, many of which are ongoing.” Details embedded in such material cover “law enforcement information, information about sensitive intelligence sources and methods, and grand-jury information that the Department is prohibited from disclosing by law.”

Such a protective assertion of privilege has precedent. President Bill Clinton did so, on advice from then-Attorney General Janet Reno, in 1996 in what is officially titled Protective Assertion of Executive Privilege White House Counsel’s Office Documents, 20 Op., O.L.C. 1 (1996). Nor is it, explain the legal boffins, a “conclusive”, actual assertion. In the hair-splitting world of jurisprudence, this is merely “protective”, ensuring, in the words of Boyd’s letter, “the President’s ability to make a final decision whether to assert privilege following a full review of these materials.”  In this Alice in Wonderful linguistic tangle, the president is effectively asserting executive privilege in order to determine whether he needs to assert executive privilege.

The legal fraternity, pouring over the details of this battle, have much to work through. While Barr’s reasoning is, on the face of it, orthodox, not all redacted material falls within the protection granted by executive privilege. Using redactions to protect privacy, according to Tennessee Assistant Solicitor General Jonathan Shaub, is an awkward fit. “In particular, grand jury material has never itself been considered a component of executive privilege.”  

The House Judiciary committee, refusing to surprise, duly voted along party lines to hear contempt proceedings against Barr. Attempting to fan the flames of drama, Nadler called such conduct on the part of attorney general the solid basis for a “constitutional crisis” affected by a “lawless administration”, ignoring the enormously broad scope of the initial subpoena.

The Mueller Report, and all that is incidental to it, has ceased being a matter of evidence, but an issue of manic principle. The premise is already coined; what matters is finding the appropriate evidence to justify the claim, wherever it may be. That claim, as we all know, is not merely Trump-Russia collusion but a Manchurian Candidate styled fantasy that risks turning the Democrat effort come 2020 into a Disneyland escapade. Nothing would warm that master in distraction Trump more than such a development.

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41 comments

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  1. mark delmege

    Trump might be the worst President ever but the Democrats are equally distasteful. And as The USofA re occupies parts of Europe he is also burning old friends while his henchmen are threatening war in two continents. And if all that is dumb Trump’s New Palestine proposal will sink quicker than a frigate in the Black Sea.

  2. randalstella

    This piece has as much regard for the truth as Trump and Barr. And uses similar smear and obfuscation against it. The writer has the credibility of his piece. The credibility of a supporter of Barr.

    If Mueller has exonerated Trump, or the Report is a fizzer, its full release to a Congressional Committee should be no problem.

    All the rest is hyperbole, as if justifying the suppression of legal findings.
    Why?

  3. mark delmege

    You sound like one of those russiagaters randalstella. Dont you know the whole show is a fraud and Mueller himself has more to hide than even Trump or Russia on this matter. From the Steele Dossier backwards or forwards anyway you chop it, its a lie.

  4. randalstella

    Say goodnight to the folks Gracie.

  5. Karen Kyle

    Many parts of the Steele Dossier have been verified. Some of the unverified parts fit neatly into the emerging picture, like a foot into a shoe, and some parts will probably never be verified. All in all, for a document which is raw intelligence, it is standing up well.

    As for Barr and his shenanigans it is obvious that the writer has not bothered to follow the legal arguments nor the House Intelligence Committee successful attempts to get Grand Jury and other classified information during Watergate and the Clinton impeachment process. Easily available to the members of the House Intelligence Committee via supoena pardon my spelling or a Court Order. The Congress is a co equal arm of Government and the Intelligence Committee has a legal and Constitutional right to this information in order to properly carry out their legally required oversight function.

  6. mark delmege

    ‘Many parts of the Steele Dossier have been verified’. Really? When and where and what did Mueller say about the Steele Dossier? Did he even mention it in his report?

  7. Alcibiades

    Karen Kyle,
    You have got to be joking.
    The so called ‘Steele Dossier’, a mish mash of disconnected memos, as if written by a puerile Walter Mitty wannabe, could never be described as ‘raw intelligence’ or intelligence collection of any kind of worth or substance whatsoever.

    Neither myself, nor any former colleagues ever managed to read past page 13 before largely giving up in disgust or outrageous laughter re the farcical content.

    Straight up question, have you ever actually read it ?

    PS The Don blimp is a blight on humankind, yet the ‘Dossier’ has less credibility than the least of Murdochs rubbish tabloids.

  8. Karen Kyle

    Yes I have read the Steele Dossier. And parts were verified by the Meuller Report and parts by Court Records pertaining to criminal charges of Manafort and others. Try Lawfare. Written by real Lawyers.

    And do you know what raw Intelligence is? Lawfare will explain. And Christopher Steele is a experienced Intelligence operator with a good reputation.

  9. Karen Kyle

    Try.the Steele Dossier A Retrospective….Lawfare.

  10. mark delmege

    it says ‘The dossier holds up well over time, and none of it, to our knowledge, has been disproven.’
    Are you kidding me!

  11. Karen Kyle

    No. What is your point?

  12. mark delmege

    Karen thats a rubbish article and no better than the Democrat bought and paid for Steele Dossier. The more I read the more I laugh.

  13. paul walter

    I guess it comes down to this.

    If there is nothing to hide, why the massive redactioning?

  14. mark delmege

    No it doesn’t Paul.

  15. Alcibiades

    Karen Kyle,
    RAOTFLMFAO 🙂

    Christopher Steele, supposedly ‘former’-MI6, and given the pathetic childish unprofessional drivel he served up in serialised memo’s, repeatedly shopped it around to anyone who could be deceived into paying for the next exciting episode & would grant it any credibility.

    Chris Steele in his ‘Dossier’ demonstrates no professional competence as either an intelligence officer, nor an analyst, but is adequate at vomiting up incoherent inane drek that only a brain addled child might countenance.

    Perhaps you could point out the sequence of events from his first shopping of it’s inception to various media outlets who ignored it, to Brennan, Clapper, Comey, McCain & the Clinton campaign who peddled the paid fake ‘opposition research’, that the FBI then relied upon to launch their so called investigation ? Leading to the dead lemming of ‘Russiagate’ ?

    A fine example of Chris Steele professional output, re his ‘intelligence reports’ :

    Speaking to a trusted compatriot in June 2016 sources A and B, a senior Russian Foreign Ministry figure and a former top level Russian intelligence officer still active inside the Kremlin respectively, the Russian authorities had been cultivating and supporting U.S. Republican presidential candidate, Donald TRUMP for at least five years. Source B asserted that the TRUMP operation was both supported and directed by Russian President Vladimir PUTIN.

    So, Steele hears from an anonymous asserted ‘compatriot’ what two anonymous sources, asserted to have access to inner Russian circles, claim to have heard somewhere that something happened in the Kremlin ? And in doing so identifies the means by which he obtained this ‘raw intelligence’ and sufficient information for opposing counter-intelligence officers to easily identify the supposed anonymous(protected) sources ?

    Oh fark off. Absolute failure to protect source nor method/means. Dross. Why ? ‘Cause it’s utter fantastical fiction, so, nah, fark it.

    These sources assert that Trump was supported & directed personally by Russkie President Putin himself five years prior (~2011), yet in even 2015, Trump wasn’t on any radar re gaining any politically significant position, let alone a freshman run at the US presidency. Hm ?

    Laughable dross. Oh, by the way, contrary to comic books & the US MSM, national leaders nor their staff run intelligence nor agent handling ops. But everything in the inane braindead propaganda must be personally run by Putin. Busy bloody fella that Vlad guy, hey ?

    All the compromised morons who have pushed this moronic deranged Russiagate BS have zero credibility. Zero.

    You must offer proof of ‘verified parts of the Steele Dossier’, by the Mueller Report, not merely assert it glibly. Go on then …

    You must demonstrate your claim, not wave a rhetorical hand & vaguely direct ‘over there’ … Laughable Lawfare or otherwise.

    You must prove what no one else has been able, including Mueller & his report, the above central claim of the ‘Steele Dossier’, or you are just trolling, zero credibility.

    Waiting … … …

  16. Karen Kyle

    The Republicans are responsible for the Steele Dossier. They wanted to look into the background of some of their candidates including Trump. The Trump background was so interesting and alarming and so expensive that the Republicans withdrew and the Democrats took over and paid the bills.And the Steele Dossier has no bearing on the Counter Intelligence investigation into Russian interference in the American Election.The Counter Intelligence Investigation was begun seven weeks before the Steele Dossier emerged.

    And do you usually just rubbish legal articles written by a highly respected legal organisation? Do you usually avoid arguments in favour of scorn and contempt?

  17. Alcibiades

    Karen Kyle,
    So no proof of your claims heh ? Zero. Nada. Nil. Zilch.

    Word salad, repeated glib assertion, more misdirection & further faux assertions, unsurprisingly, no argumentum, no PROOF re your earlier claim, especially re Mueller report & the Steele ‘Dossier’. Do you usually waste peoples time & energy posting such low grade doggy doo, even the followup ?
    Since you are unable to even get fundamental well documented corroborated facts right, given the above, one will leave you to your trolling, & very poor trolling it is at that …

  18. mark delmege

    I’d argue the very real crimes of Clinton and Obama in Syria and Libya alone far exceed anything even put up against Trump as Russiagate. But it makes a great distraction and thats all it is.

  19. Karen Kyle

    Alcibiads……He sent it to the FBI, and then panicked when they appeared to take no notice of it.. He did that because he was alarmed and was in no position to know that the FBI and the CIA were already aware of the situation. The Americans also had information from European Intelligence agencies, and Alexander Downer at some point..

    And do you know what raw Intelligence is? It was simply a series of reports without analysing, without conclusions, simply repeating what was said with accuracy like a journalist or a cop And. from many sources some highly trustworthy and reliable.. And this has been borne out by the similarity of the information from many different agencies Steele was so frightened by what he found he went into hiding.for a time. Later the FBI sent someone to London to talk to him. They were not ignoring him. But they were keeping the whole situation quiet and not public at the time.

  20. Karen Kyle

    The proof is in the legal opinion which you ignore and the subsequent revealing of corroborating info, which you also ignore.

  21. Karen Kyle

    Oh and Trump and the Russians via the KGB go back a long way. Try the New Republic, a progressive publication operating since World War One with a perfect fact check record.The article is called “When a Young Trump Went to Russia”. His first wife Ivana is a Czech and the two of them went to visit her father who lived in Czechoslovakia. The KGB were most interested in a wealthy young American businessman. And they began to watch him and cultivate him. And they succeeded. And the source is impeccable. As you will see.

  22. Alcibiades

    Karen Kyle,
    More word salad, this time trying to draw sympathy for poor Chris Steele. You have falsely described the Republican initiator & misrepresented the original objective & intent of said Senator. EU IAs, Alexander Downer ? Just wandering off on a vague irrelevant tangent re your earlier claims … now the evil bogeyman of the KGB prior to the nineties …

    Am a former senior Intelligence Analyst, so respectfully do not lecture me with ignorant dribble, re ‘raw intelligence’, journalists & cops, please. Oh, many sources, some highly trustworthy & reliable ? Really ? Name them, with references. Have followed this disastrous propaganda closely since late 2016 out of professional interest. Give me a break.

    More mere assertion, only this time it’s asserted unreferenced legal opinion ? LOL. Gag me with a spoon.

    I have a legal opinion the world is flat. So bloody what. Since when is mere legal opinion proof of anything, absolutely anything at all.

    Proof. Evidence. Supporting references for your broad nebulous assertions ? You offer none.

    Having quite rudely, basely attacked the article author and then made demonstrably false assertions, then just just dig the hole deeper ? Sad.

    Offer proof of ‘verified parts of the Steele Dossier’, by the Mueller Report, as you claim, hm ?

    Prove YOUR claims, that no one else has been able, including Mueller & his report, the above central crucial claim of the ‘Steele Dossier’, that Trump was recruited & handled personally by Vlad Putin since 2011, which is the entire basis of the childish crap that is the Steele ‘Dossier’. The basis, the crucial core for the disproven fraud of RussiaGate, hm ? Yet, you cannot …

    Your last post re the KGB, WWI, the New Republic, impeccable sources ? LOL. Oh my Dog, childish, have you even reached your majority ? Am now utterly convinced, a born again RussiaGate cult convert, praise be to Dog. Truly.

    ‘Tis not enough that you and others merely choose to believe it to be so, hm ? Outta here, wasted enough time, goodnight.

  23. Karen Kyle

    Read the article in Lawfare. I assume a former intelligence officer such as your wonderful self can read and assimilate facts.Just as a lawyer looks for proofs, evidence and facts. And policemen. And Journalists. Just as they all look behind the easily discernible facts for other facts.Just as they all look to different sources to corroborate facts.from multiple sources. But perhaps not. Perhaps you would rather rest easy with your narrow propagandist point of view.And you do always try to narrow and argument down to one small item or part while ignoring the rest of the story. A deliberate tactic designed to obfuscate and muddy. Just as your claim to be an Intelligence analyst. I don’t believe a word of it. You are taking liberties with the truth.

  24. randalstella

    Karen, I am sorry to see that you have been set upon by abusive bullshit artists.
    Others who have the time should have supported you, but they run a mile a minute away from such hyperbole. That’s why they don’t comment on this absurdly deceitful article above.
    I can’t blame them, given the response from the unhinged crazies. It is unpleasant, and you have my sympathies.

    For you to be singled out is completely unfair. Something needs to be done about this leftoid claptrap from Putin shills. Hiding until they have passed is no answer, and displays no courage for fairness and the truth. It allows the blustering liars to dominate their little domain. A Trumpian sort of triumph.

    Thanks for your posts anyway.

  25. Karen Kyle

    Thanks randalstella. I am pretty tough and lying “Putin shills” I can cope with. They have to be challenged.They have been living in their own oddball world long enough. About time they were shaken out of it. Thanks again. I appreciate it..

  26. Alcibiades

    Karen Kyle, randalstella,

    Failure to proffer proof of merely baseless meandering repeated assertions without supporting evidence, findings or facts ? Yep.

    Remarkable. Lying Putin Shills ? Oddballs ? Dismissive name calling is no substitute for either evidence, facts, or substantive argumentum. Disappointing. Respectfully, care not what you believe re my qualifications/experience, ’tis irrelevant.

    Did Special Counsel Mueller make a legal finding of collusion ? No. Hello .. that’s a no.

    Did he make any legal recommendations re the President of the US at all ? No. That’s a no, too.

    Do you seriously actually believe a sitting President could survive the weight of the combined investigative & surveillance resources of the FBI, NSA, the DOJ, assisting allied Intelligence & Law Enforcement agencies, & an entirely independent far reaching wide ranging 2 year special counsel investigation, plus multiple convened Grand Juries, as a long term suborned agent of a foreign power ? Apparently going back to 2011 & beyond, even back to the days of the KGB in the ’80’s as you boldly assert ? Good grief.

    Apparently, sadly, the answer is yes, you do. 🙁

    Trump is a sexist, corrupt, narcissistic, racist & nativist conman charlatan, but you have offered zero evidence, none, not even a reference or quote of fact or finding, that RussiaGate is or ever was real, & the same for the disgraceful puerile fabrication which is the Steele ‘Dossier’. Why ? Because it does not exist, there is only hyper partisan & MSM spin & propaganda for 2 1/2 years now.

    Mere opinion based on irrational faith & believe are not facts nor legal or investigative findings/recommendations. Have you even actually read or comprehended the article by Dr Binoy Kampmark you have been commenting on ?

    … if there was evidence of Kremlin collusion (and the extent of it) suggested by some Democrats, Mueller would most certainly have had it by now …

    Yet, he has not, nor has any other Agency of the US or its allies for that matter. And that is a fact. Wishing it was not so is not reality, it is, to use your chosen phraseology, existing in an oddball world of evidence & fact free denial.

    Frankly, coincidentally, prime examples of the very topic of the article … Trump-Russia collusion … a Manchurian Candidate styled fantasy … Muellerisation.

  27. Phil

    Do you seriously actually believe a sitting President could survive the weight of the combined investigative & surveillance resources of the FBI, NSA, the DOJ, assisting allied Intelligence & Law Enforcement agencies, & an entirely independent far reaching wide ranging 2 year special counsel investigation, plus multiple convened Grand Juries, as a long term suborned agent of a foreign power ? Apparently going back to 2011 & beyond, even back to the days of the KGB in the ’80’s as you boldly assert ? Good grief.

    Of course just like the ‘ Warren Commission ‘ Concluding it was Oswald acting alone that shot Kennedy.

    ‘ Independent council? ‘ WTF. Nanu nanu.

  28. Karen Kyle

    Not collusion. No such thing in law. The word is conspiracy Meuller was unable to find evidence of Conspiracy. Conspiracy is difficult to prove and the legal standard set is high. There was plenty of smoke however, with something like one hundred meetings between Trump people and Russian officials.if I remember correctly. Not illegal but mighty suspicious given the proof of Russian cyber meddling, facebook etc…..trolling and bots. And Trump’s strange crawling to Putin and the propensity to do what Putin wants.Helsinki and so on. Suspicious beaviour…..stinks to high heaven. And Steele did warn in his Dossier that Russias tracks would be well covered. Meuller did establish that Russia offered assistance to Trump and Trump gladly took it. And Trump behaves like a Russian Assett. There is a feeling in the Meuller camp that conspiracy has been hard to prove because Trump and Co were too damned dumb to shake hands on it and too incompetant to take the advantage..So lets have no more talk of collusion eh? You sound like Fox News. And how many prosecutors was it who signed a letter this week to the effect that if Trump was not POTUS he would be charged with multiple counts of obstruction.of justice. Now if Trump is as innocent as the driven snow why would he try sohard to obstruct jusice.

  29. Karen Kyle

    And a Preident gone bad is hard to get rid of. He can’t be charged with a crime while President. It is either impeachment which won’t work with a Republican majority in the Senate, an election or a forced resignation.like Nixon.

  30. Phil

    Trump was a gift to the Kremlin. Trump is in this up to his neck, it was about money for him the US banks dried up and told him to fuck off. Once Putin realized Trump was nearly as narcissistic as him with out the brains, he was on the pay roll. A gift that no doubt keeps giving. I just hope they get rid of this nutter before he starts WW3. My bet his he’ll resign using health reasons.

  31. Alcibiades

    Come on Phil, haven’t ya noticed I’ve been working towards the Muellerisation conclusion re the article premise. 🙂
    The Trumpster was pre-anointed by the MICC, so he can do as he damn well pleases(without pulling on the leash), and does, just ask Boeing, or Syria/Venezuela/NthKorea/China/Iran/EU, etc. But ain’t no foreign asset, all the same, that’s just plain Democrat/DNC BS. Warren Commission ? JFK travelled through time to assassinate himself, from behind the grassy knoll, upon success his future self ceased to exist, well documented in depth in a Red Dwarf episode.

    Karen Kyle,
    What is a Meuller, a Preident ?
    Obstruct Justice ? Says who ?
    There is no verifiable corroborated evidence of hacking by Russia, either, of Clinton, Podesta or the DNC, none.
    Does Muellerisation have any other not commonly known adverse side effects ?

  32. Phil

    Alcibiades
    May 11, 2019 at 11:14 pm

    I’m not saying he is an asset as per Profumo etc. (Why has Christine Keeler, got splinters in her fanny she had half a cabinet through her.) But I digress. Trump is far too stupid to be an asset for anything. He would be battling to find Russia on a map. However, he is involved with the Kremlin on some basis and I would bet my kids lives on it.

    I think Putin thought Trump could be a useful idiot, he just didn’t realise what an idiot Trump really is. Trump is on borrowed time, I just hope the world doesn’t go up in mushroom cloud before they get shot of him. The truth be known the Mueller report contains facts that the government is just to afraid to release.

    I don’t believe anything the US government puts out into the world for the consumption of the hoi polloi. Anyone denying the US government will say and do anything for their own interests is as naïve as the day is long. They have form for lying, obfuscation and treachery and a list of meddling in other countries that would fill a presidential library.

    Let’s face it, Trump is not the President on his own merit but by the gross stupidity of the US people. Bush is testament to that salient fact. Now back to Anthony Quinn and Zorba.

  33. Karen Kyle

    Obsruct Justice…..says Meuller,and he left it up to Congress. He can’t charge Trump while he is President. Obstruct Justice….says five hundred US prosecutors was it? Pretty conclusive I would say.. And the hacking has been verified and the misinfoormation etc.Just what Russia does and has always done. They do it in Europe as well. Busy.

  34. Alcibiades

    KK,
    Hacking, globally, world wide … what do you think the NSA, GCHQ, ASD, CSE & GCSB (5-Eyes) actually do 24 hours a day with the 100’s of billions & virtually unlimited resources they possess ? Since the beginning of WWII … play checkers ? Let alone the 9 & 14 Eyes. Apologies, forgot you’re apparently still utterly indoctrinated, trapped in the Cold War ‘bubble’ of the late ’40’s-’80s, suffering from Muellerisation Syndrome.

    Do you believe the US Empire are the good guys, wearing White Cowboy hats ? Really ?

    The US is a single ‘front’ party, faux Democracy Oligarchic State, comprised of two marginally different factions, one a Donkey the other an Elephant.

    Hint: Wikileaks, Vault 7 files, Snowden files, PRISM, etc …

    A Snowden Files Flashback to 2014 BBC

    Phil,
    Trump is no intellectual, have my doubts he’s fully literate, but he’s far from stupid, demonstrably plays the MSM like a Cajun Banjo. All the same, dangerous indeed, agreed.

  35. Phil

    ‘ Phil,
    Trump is no intellectual, have my doubts he’s fully literate, but he’s far from stupid, demonstrably plays the MSM like a Cajun Banjo. All the same, dangerous indeed, agreed.’

    Sorry we will agree to disagree. Trump is a gibbering idiot, a conman who has one of those characters that attracts like minded gibbering idiots., dangerous and unpredictable is an understatement. As for the media in the US there is none, with the possible exception of Democracy Now, NPR the so called media in the US is infotainment value only. Even his own personal media outlet Fox, is getting the wind up about what Trump may do next. But hey at the end of the day, he is just the mouth piece for the Koch brothers Walmart etc. etc. fucking etc. As their economy tanks and it will, they will use Trump to suppress any dissent.

    The same half wits that support Trump are the same half wits every where. We have them here in abundance they support One Nation, Clive Palmer, Cory Bernadi and of course the LNP. The only thing I will concede is, Trump is self aware enough to know his own supporters are morons, he is laughing at them. He has threatened to unleash these fuckers running around with a squeeril on their heads with one tooth in their heads on anyone he feels is a threat. Interesting months ahead.

  36. Alcibiades

    A matter of nuance or particular emphasis, don’t believe we’re actually in much disagreement at all. 🙂
    Though as far as I’m concerned Democracy Now! has been little more than a controlled modified limited hangout for more than a decade … NPR became diet FOX …
    Re coming months on Terra … reminds me of …

    May you live in interesting times – Old Chinese curse

  37. paul walter

    mark delmege, we need to include Yemen when we consider US war crimes.

  38. mark delmege

    Of course Paul and a lot more. What do Iraq Iran Venezuela Libya even Sudan have in common …oil. And Yemen is a suitable piece of real estate controlling the waterways that must, according to some, be under control. You can extend that to an earlier time when Eritrea was split off from Ethiopia. But back to the issue above…
    I haven’t really debated any of the issues raised by Karen for the simple reason that it all comes down to who or what you believe. I can quote him or her saying this or that but either you believe them or you don’t.
    For example if the former Technical Director of the NSA Bill Binney says the DNC emails were not hacked over the internet by Russians but downloaded onsite (by an insider) and if Mueller himself couldn’t make a case then nothing will convince you otherwise.
    Anyway I found this video this evening of interest in why some people still go along with the Russiagate farrago.
    https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/this-talk-between-aaron-gabor-maté-is-the-best-political-video-ive-ever-seen-c8caf4dd7a46
    (its not the best video by a long shot.)

  39. paul walter

    I hope Mueller does an Assange and plucks up the guts to leak his report to mass media. The only person I can think who exceeds Clive Palmer as a charlatan, Trump.

  40. mark delmege

    You over estimate Mueller. He was another who justified the invasion of Iraq. He is a long time insider and his report was more about the story than the facts.

  41. mark delmege

    The Mueller inquiry was as dodgy as the Syrian chemical weapons scam, The Iraqi WMD’s or the more recent oil ships in the gulf subterfuge. They lie and dont care that they are caught out. They just don’t care because real journalism doesn’t exist anymore.
    This just in from the man who passed on the DNC downloads to Wikileaks.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2019/05/the-real-muellergate-scandal/

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