Mr Turnbull, you are making me feel unsafe
An open letter to Malcolm Turnbull, by Tracie Aylmer.
You are making me feel unsafe!
Dear Sir,
Your refugee policies are making me feel extraordinarily unsafe. You are inviting terrorism to our shores in many different and various ways and as such I have never felt as unsafe as I do right now. And it’s all because you are targeting refugees instead of dealing with the problem at its core. Refugees are the ‘political’ victims which you have decided to target. This will result in incursions like we have never seen before.
You are also targeting the business model of people smugglers. You believe they are criminals. They may or may not be, but you are also overstepping your boundaries in trying to manipulate the business practices within other countries, and in doing so you are attacking their sovereignty. You have no authority to do this.
You have made me a target for terrorism because of the policies you have adopted. In addition, you have behaved in a manner that does not convey the wishes of the growing majority of the Australian people. We are desperate for humanity to exist here and for that to occur, the asylum seekers and refugees who have the right to live in this country should be allowed to do so. Many migrants, you may have noticed, behave more like respectful citizens than many in your own government. And simply, they certainly show more humanity.
So please do not go down the path you have entertained which is chillingly laid out in this article: Asylum seekers face lifetime ban from entering Australia if they arrive by boat.
My conscience is singing to me, and it’s saying that you will not be in your position for much longer. Perhaps it’s time for you to listen to your conscience as well, because the more you sway from it, the more people such as myself will be blaming you for any possible terrorism outcome. Stop acting as illegally as the people smugglers that you perceive are acting.
Humanism is the only way humankind can go. Make us feel like honourable humans again. Stop destroying my country!
Kind regards,
Tracie Aylmer
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74 comments
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Harquebus
Return to home pageTurnbull and Co. are making me ashamed of being an Australian. They sink us lower and lower into the mud. Yet he blithely visits very sick children in hospital, and gets all emotional about them – while not a skerrick of concern for (for instance) that 6 year old girl he has incarcerated on Nauru, who was abused and taunted by a guard. Or the young woman who has breast cancer, the lump is getting bigger, yet no treatment in sight. Let him visit Nauru, I say, and then see what he thinks of his proposed reprehensible legislation.
Jaquix, it’s selective caring, all teary for TV Cameras. Narcissistic people have real tears…. only for themselves, the empathy gene by-passed them…
Yes Helvityni, I realise they are crocodile tears, and Turnbull is trying to look good. He fools nobody. Great actors, these narcissists, they get away with so much by being “charming” and are often called “charismatic”. They make good barristers, who enjoy their own performance! In my experience almost all charismatics are actually narcissists.
When writing a report card on this Government, we only have to look at their cruel unfair treatment of the most vulnerable people in Australia,
so it should not come as a surprise that they are cynical and cruel to asylum seekers.
Either you have empathy for the plight of your fellow man or you don’t. They don’t .
Very good letter Tracie .. is there some way you could make sure, it would get to the Turncoat ? Most likely not, unfortunately – he is protected – and self-protected, from stark truths.
Noticed your mention of many migrants who are better behaved than those in Government. True.
However, this country allows so-called ‘legal’ immigrants in here, who have not one clue about our laws, our ways of life, our multi-cultural diversities – – and recently there has been an upsurge in two particular classes of immigrants, who are NOT a product of their colour, creed or religion – but of their home grown culture.
A lot of these come here, and wreak havoc in the community with criminal acts, form ‘gangs’ and many of these criminal acts are violent, and of great danger to the community. YET this ‘ thing ‘ that calls itself a government, doesn’t consider ‘culling’ those – back to where they came from, because they break the law so very many times …
Many many of the refugees currently incarcerated, would make a meal of these people, when it comes to manners, gratitude, willingness to work, willingness to live in a country that happily accepts them.
It is discriminatory, illegal, vile and against international law – and indeed would cause more terrorist eyes being turned on us, ( because of the Muslim factor ?, where refugees are concerned ) – who have been ousted and treated so inhumanely by this ruling rabble mob.
“dealing with the problem at its core.”
That’s what I’d like to see.
The next question has to be, what is it that is the core of this problem?
Tracey, He and his LNP are making us all feel unsafe, they have no time for “people” their only priority is to sell up “all” our govt services to the filthy rich 1% of the global population, who already own 50%+ of the world economy (mainly yank) corporations. They don’t care about us, or small business, they are trying to close small business to acquire “all” business for themselves.
Small business thank they are playing the same game as big business, yet they continue to pay income tax, where these worldwide multinational corporations pay none in any country they happen to be in, they are being hoodwinked into believing that they too can work hard go into business for themselves and make a fortune, not true. Even car dealers these days would be lucky to be worth over $50 million, after a lifetime of work, and the poor ole’ wage slave, lucky to have $250,000 in super after a lifetime of work, even if they could find employment for life.
No, let’s face it the LNP have always been the servants of the rich until now we didn’t know what classification ‘the rich’ were, but now we understand it is the global rich 1% of the global population, mostly US of A corporations like Coke, McDonald’s etc
The core problem is that the giant foreign corporations who operate in Australia pay no tax, no revenue to our federal govt, and therefore our govt can not afford to help it’s citizens because these parasites do not pay their fair share on income tax, gees, how thick are you Haetritus?
Annie B
“a lot of these come here wreak havoc in the community”
With respect Annie there are lots of Australians, who “engage in criminal activity, join gangs ,wreak havoc in the community”
What should we do with those people?
Hi Annie B, I sent this to Mr Turnbull a few days ago. I have received responses from his office previously, but it can take a while.
The federal government wants to generalise us. Humans by nature are very complex creatures. We can’t be generalised.
What I would love for any government to do is to protect the victims, while targeting the perpetrators, of domestic violence. I think that could go a long way into underwriting inclusion into our communities. We need the money properly spent in order to target the areas of most disadvantage, not least disadvantage.
What this society wants is definitely NOT what it needs. A good government would provide for what’s needed. That’s the basis of humanism. I know what’s wanted is for xenophobia and racism at every stage. What’s needed is inclusion. I’m guessing that would go a long way to sort out the complexities of our society.
What the?
Generalities, broad sweeping (vague) statements, unsupported opinions, derogatory remarks…..
Kinda does one’s head in when looking for continuity & facts. Is this forum for those seeking to impress others with wordsmithing and political smears …or objective analysis of issues?
Recently there was an article published on the AIM Network which basically said our attitude towards immigrants and refugees has not changed and the article proceeded to go back in history and demonstrate this. Please could someone tweet me a link to this article @RosemaryJ36. I want to share it with friends. Thank you.
So you want links, Greg, as you think that what I wrote wasn’t up to your standard, as you don’t believe that someone could feel anything because you don’t?
Here are some links, then.
There’s a reason why international trade is so complex http://library.law.columbia.edu/guides/International_Trade_Law
One must deal with the customs of individual countries http://www.commisceo-global.com/country-guides
Here’s another one about sovereignty http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sovereignty?
Mr Turnbull has decided to breach every single aspect within each of these links.
i agree! i don’t feel safe either, for the same reasons. Further, my entire family doesn’t feel safe because we’re low-income brown people (all born & bred Aussies). i think our gov is anti-social and it’s rubbing-off on our youth… please don’t get up my ass for thinking, i can’t help it since i do have a brain
They work hard at making us feel unsafe. No accident that we do. Every issue is met with a negative. Look at the response to closing Hazlewood. Labor’s fault it is closing.Will lead to problems with electricity. All lies.
Yes Florence that it is what they want which it is another tactic to divide society ( It happens now in USA, Brazil, etc)
They are in the right track, One Nation it is gaining more support and the ultra conservative and extreme right movement it is gaining moment world wide.
Ella …
I think you might have missed my point, or I didn’t explain it clearly enough.
1) … what we do with the criminal gangs, murderers, thugs, drug dealers who are Australian, ( equally vile in every respect ) is bung them in jail … the problem with that is, often they are not given long enough to cool their heels in prison, the sentences are often paltry, and the excuses for their evil behaviour are plenty and growing by the day.
This should apply to ALL people who are legally resident in Australia, no matter their ethnicity, colour or religion – they should be bunged in jail or given stiff sentences if they break the law. …. without frills I might add.
2) … The point I was making was the differences in dealing with recent immigrants who flout our laws, because of their own dysfunctional backgrounds, wanton misunderstanding, raising and culture …. as opposed to … the treatment of the refugees which that ex-cop creep and his turncoat headmaster, have denounced and totally locked the doors upon. Somehow this rabble government will find a way to say that ALL peoples who seek refuge here, have at some time ‘been on a boat or have had dealings with people smugglers’ …. that way they can keep everybody out – genuine refugees, that is. The immigrants, no matter what cultural backgrounds they have – as long as they arrive by plane with proper papers ( and who’s to say they don’t fudge those ) – are ok to come here and do what their up-bringing has taught them to do. They bring their cultural dysfunctions with them.
I should have added the word “recent” to ‘immigrants’ in my original post.
With respect – and if you wish, please read particularly my 2nd last paragraph in my former post. I think it is adequate, and I hope I have answered your question.
Greg ….
I would very much like to hear your “objective analysis of issues? … This might then steer you in the direction of good debate, and stop you sniping at others’ reasonable and good observations here.
Of course, if you are LNP inclined, you won’t have any objectivity. … It would go against the grain ( to begin with ).
Just sayin’. . ….
Thank you so much Tracie Aylmer for offering your house and money to refugees. Your open hearted generosity is so Australian. I wish I could do the same but I am homeless and without employment due to this Turnbull/Abbott government. I know no one who has a job and many lost their homes due to this government and it’s cutting of services and employment. I was turned out of my home because a refugee family needed it but I was glad to give it. Thank you for giving up your home too and for supporting refugees financially. The need is so great that our streets will soon be like those in Paris with refugees sleeping all over the streets but it’s people like you and I who are willing to give up our homes and you are also supporting refugees financially that will make this nation great. There are millions of refugees and Australia is so big and people like you so generous that we should open our borders for all to come. Thank you Tracie Aylmer for giving up your lifestyle for the sake of refugees who are in much greater need.
As you say we will be admired by the rest of the world for our generosity and we will be much safer if our borders remain open for all to come.
It is population growth that is destroying our country. Urban sprawl, pollution, scarcity and environmental destruction are just a few of the side effects. If you want more of this then, bring ’em in.
“If we don’t halt population growth with justice and compassion, it will be done for us by nature, brutally and without pity – and will leave a ravaged world.” — Dr. Henry W. Kendall
Forced migration is a symptom and we had better recognize it for what it is or else, it will only worsen.
Cheers.
Harquebus, I am certain that if this article was written by one of our regular authors they would have deleted your comment without hesitation. It is completely off topic and just another attempt to derail the conversation towards the same old stuff you keep repeating.
One of our moderators starts work shortly and I’m sure that she will be less than forgiving than I am.
Michael
My previous comment has everything to do with this subject. I don’t want to see refugees fleeing conflict or persecution any more than anyone else does but, if we don’t start facing reality and addressing root causes, all of our problems are only going to worsen. You might think that we are prepared to handle them but, believe me, we are not.
“Africa’s population boom fuels “unstoppable” migration to Europe”
af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFKCN12D1Q7
Cheers.
Miter Limberg,
Thank you so much for understanding (not) that $9.8 billion could have gone into the homeless rather than destroying the lives of 2000 asylum seekers and refugees. Thank you for showing the world that your divisive propaganda is a simplistic viewpoint that doesn’t understand the enormity of the corruption involved in paying such an enormous amount to contractors, in order to denigrate.
Thank you for being close minded and ignorant, in the face of such a complex issue. Thank you for not wanting to know what the real causes are. Thank you for not realising that western bombs are destroying the cities that these asylum seekers and refugees are coming from. Thank you for not understanding that Australia is one of the countries responsible for those bombs, so we have an obligation to look after asylum seekers and refugees by housing them and ensuring their safety.
Thank you also for not understanding that while many government houses lay empty, the reason for this is because government is determined to try to make a profit by negative gearing.
Perhaps you should educate yourself more, in order not to go against someone like me.
Harqubus,
Perhaps if bombs weren’t dropped on the cities that the asylum seekers and refugees are fleeing from, then they would have a place to live. I think we are all in agreement that we should stop dropping bombs on Middle Eastern countries.
However, I don’t agree with your view (surprise surprise). Since Australia is complicit in dropping bombs, then we have a responsibility to ensure the safety of the refugees and asylum seekers that come from it. While I agree that there are now finite resources to accommodate 7 billion people on this planet, I don’t agree that Australia should stop migration. We actually need it.
Australia has been doing a lot of damage from a diplomatic perspective. Asylum seekers and refugees are resourceful, positively determined and faithful to their new country. They increase the GDP of countries, if only given a chance. They have more energy to make a go of things. We need their loyalty, which they give in abundance, as internationally Australia is heading down a really rocky path.
All the fear about asylum seekers is nonsensical. Most of our families came here by boat, and keeping 2000 people away is ludicrous. In addition, there are 30,000 already in the community. Once in a while their mental illness (due to being kept on an indefinite cliffhanger) makes people aware they are there. Other than that, there are few stories about them. That’s because they are mostly law abiding. The ones that aren’t are the ones that drive 2 km over the speed limit (as an example) and are locked away on Christmas Island because of it.
If we already have 30,000 people in the community that you aren’t aware of, what really is your problem?
It had nothing to do with this subject. (Admin).
Tracie – you are indeed an awesome role model of knowledge and wisdom and we genuflect before you.
I DID give up my house for a refugee.
I am VERY aware that Australia has been directly responsible for refugees including the recent Syrian debacle where Australia bombed Syrian military personnel and said ‘Oops. Sorry.’
I am fully aware that Australian citizens are paying the price – in many ways.
I don’t know where your empty government housing is – you obviously don’t live in Canberra where the waiting list is years long and the word is that Canberra is the easiest place to get government housing in Australia.
I am sure you are personally giving up your house and job and supporting refugees financially – as are many other Australians.
Tracie
I agree with you. Why are bombs being dropped on the M.E? Do you think that this would happen if there were not vital and increasingly difficult to come by resources in that region?
There are too many sharing a shrinking pie and more are coming to party. This can not end well.
Search criteria: Syria gas pipeline
theAimn regularly criticizes me for hijacking debates but, what most can not see are the underlying causes, population growth and resource depletion which, must be addressed if we wish to stop forced migration and alleviate other problems of which, there are many and are deadly serious.
Admin
“There are none so blind as those that will not see.”
Cheers.
I cannot agree with you about the resources issue. There are so many other viable resources around for our energy. Why should we go into the Middle East for gas and oil when we can go renewables. That’s the energy of the future, and we don’t need to bomb or fight in order to obtain it.
In WA, there’s wave energy. That’s making waves (under the sea) for the progression of finding energy. Then there’s solar, then wind. There’s just so much energy that can be found, without digging underground.
The Iraq war was because of oil. It didn’t have to happen. I have read the documents that showed exactly which areas were cut up by Australia and USA for oil. UK lost trust with USA and Australia very early on in the piece.
Still, with the bombing of those areas, we STILL need to care for refugees – properly, appropriately and with a ‘can do’ attitude.
Harquebus puts up an argument I first heard 50 years ago. Funnily enough, since then the population has trebled, and Australia is a far better country in which to live than it was then. This disproves his theory that population (read: immigration) is a serious problem. In fact it leans in the opposite direction.
Miter Limberg, it looks like I’ll have to do all the work for you, then, in relation to public (and otherwise) housing:
WA – https://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/wa/a/26280247/public-housing-lots-stand-empty/#page1
Melbourne – http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/massive-number-of-melbourne-homes-are-lying-vacant-angering-homeless-agencies/news-story/86c1de02ada02dce7c9b1bca9f6b147d
Sydney – http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/thousands-of-empty-homes-adding-to-sydneys-housing-crisis-experts-say-20160323-gnpc52.html
Negative gearing – http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/thousands-of-empty-homes-adding-to-sydneys-housing-crisis-experts-say-20160323-gnpc52.html
Saying that you’re giving up your home to refugees is one of the most stupid things I’ve ever heard. You are being vitriolic for no reason other than to show your stupidity on the reality of the topic.
Next time, figure out how to search for information yourself. It’s all there, in abundance.
Tracie
You ask a good question. “Why should we go into the Middle East for gas and oil when we can go renewables.”
Renewables can not replace fossil fuels and in fact, are dependent on them. Their EROEI is too low. That is another argument which, I will not proceed with at this time.
On the other matters, again I agree with you but, causes must be addressed otherwise, your writings and those of others on this subject, just like the problem, will never end.
Jaquix
Modern agriculture (fossil fuel dependent), sanitation and modern medicine have allowed our numbers to grow. The problem now is, debt is being used to do what fossil fuels have traditionally done. Another symptom and another deadly serious problem that we are about to face.
I’ve had my say and will leave it that until next time. I am fighting for our survival so, I ain’t goin’ away ‘n’ I ain’t about to change my tune.
Cheers.
Harquebus, I think these countries will strongly disagree with you https://cleantechnica.com/2016/02/04/how-11-countries-are-leading-the-shift-to-renewable-energy/
It can definitely be done without fossil fuels. You just need to open your mind to the concept.
The only reason why there’s such a dependence on fossil fuels is because of greed. Multinationals want to keep the money rolling in, and politicians are on this bandwagon as well. Please do a search on this on the AIMN website. I have actually written extensively about this, and provided many links.
But, this is completely off topic. In the meantime, let the refugees in. We actually need them.
Tracie
We disagree on renewable energy and I look forward to another occasion where I can present my evidence in response.
In regards to needing refugees, I have already stated my opposing argument.
Avagoodweegend.
Cheers.
So talking at the Tasmanian Liberal Party conference Turnbull has stated he wants a broader more inclusive party, one that appeals to a wider public.
He stated something similar a short while ago, but the incongruity is that he wants the failed State Liberals to move further to right like he and the Federal Liberals have.
I don’t know if he honestly believes that he won the last election (on less votes than Labor) by being more right wing, by being in such control of the extreme right he can’t say anything else or he’s having a lend of everyone.
How did that work for Newman in Queensland Turnbull?
Looking at Turnbull speak at these pressers to me he seems to be a sad, pitiful, empty shell of a leader whose words aren’t his and whose own thoughts are deeply suppressed.
Seems there are two camps here…those who readily take offence, whose prime focus is political sledging, & who automatically play the man (or less often – woman) rather than “the ball”
AND
Those that remain objective & civil seek to inform on the issue under discussion.
I say “hurrah!” For the Harquebus’s & Miter Limbergs that bring us back to the core problems of increasingly scarce resources, excessive levels of population growth (immigration included), decline in quality of life (I don’t know where you live Jacqi…perhaps somewhere pristine that you purchased when housing was affordable in your lifetime…. where you are not overcrowded, sit for hours in heavy traffic, or work multiple jobs).
Am left wondering why Michael Taylor has accused Harquebus of being off topic, (& threatened him w moderation) when Mr H has very politely responded that his comments were very much on-topic.
Re-housing refugees refugees is a bandaid solution of extraordinary expense. It is way past time that we recognised the World is a finite place & that political conflict & the potential numbers subsequently dispossessed correlates directly with increasing population.
CAN WE STOP GETTING SIDELINED BY THE SYMPTOMS & START TALKING ABOUT THE ILLUSIVE CURE?
The solution is NOT illusive, and has been written about over and over and over again. It is all OVER the place. You just need to search for it. The internet has so much information, for many here to keep demanding information when all they need to do is look for it shows laziness.
Why on earth do you expect others to look for it, when you can do it yourself?
I actually doubt that you read the links, anyway, as you are so entrenched in your own ideas that you can’t look at anything else.
There are ALWAYS solutions to problems. Stop always looking for the problems, and nitpicking absolutely everything. It becomes tiresome when you look at the negative, rather than the positive.
We are a rich country, with so many empty houses (as noted in previous links). Why on earth can’t we use those empty houses to house people?
For Mikel Limberg, Harquebus and Greg, you are actually the proof that I have of the reason why I do feel so afraid. I am in fear of the type of people that you are. Your hard methods show clear evidence that I have reason to feel fear.
In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if any of you feel that in your privilege you have a right to do whatever you want to others. You are not the type of people that I would want anywhere near me, because your ways are the only ways you see. You sledgehammer over everyone else, and expect everyone to bow to your reasoning without showing any evidence or links as to your ‘knowledge’.
I have been sexually assaulted. I have suffered severe domestic violence, where at one stage I was nearly murdered. Your unbending ways are proof enough of people who I have had the misfortune of meeting, and that I now steer well away from.
You think I should play the ball instead of the man? Why don’t you all do the same? Or is it because I’m a sitting duck because I’m a woman that you can target me?
Put basically, I can show oneupmanship, simply because I HAVE given links (that you all have ignored). This is YOUR problem, not mine.
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE OF WHAT YOU SAY! If not, then SHUT UP!! You have no idea what you are talking about.
“Am left wondering why Michael Taylor … ”
Keep wondering. H’ knows what I’m on about and he has a bit of fun with me. It’s between me and H’.
Tracie
Which would you like first, population, renewable energy, resource depletion or debt?
I totally reject your character assassination.
As you put up a link for my benefit, it is my intention to follow it. Did you follow the one that I posted?
Michael Taylor and I agree on some things, disagree on others and sometimes he riles me something fierce. Regardless, he is a good man and I respect him.
Whaaaat!!!! Me rile you? Not possible. I’m too gentle a soul.
Tracie, you naught girl, I believe you need to be held to account!
1. …the link you provided to support your claim to Harquebus that “it can definitely be done without fossil fuels” is simply NOT right!!
If you read that link closely….none of the countries mentioned has achieved 100% renewable energy & a number of the “successful countries” referred to are talking RESIDENTIAL rather than TOTAL (includes industry) energy needs,
And,
2. “The only reason why there’s such a dependence on fossil fuels is because of greed.”
Huh??…more conspiracy theory?
Not every country has hydro, geothermic, wind or wave power or even a combination of same to obviate the needs for fossil based energy sources. Uses such as long distance transport & agriculture are likely to rely on non renewables for many decades to come.
BTW: I am pro alternative energies.
Greg,
There is such a thing as being bludgeoned into submission. Imagine you are talking to someone and no matter what you are discussing, no matter what question you ask, no matter what information is being presented, the other person gives the same answer every time. For about a year Harquebus ended every single comment with “peak oil mate, peak oil”. Fortunately his deadline for destruction of 2015 came and went so he moved on to renewables where every single answer ended with EROEI. As his information on that topic has also become dated, he now answers every discussion with population reduction. He provides endless links with no consideration of the credibility of the source.
If you make someone listen to the same thing over and over and over and over and show no regard for topic under discussion but insist on making it what YOU want to talk about – people eventually get pissed off. Harquebus has been repeatedly invited to write articles about his hobby horses. he refuses to do so and insists on taking over EVERY conversation.
It has been an ongoing problem for some time.
OFF TOPIC – FORUM ETIQUETTE
Tracie,
Your last post unfortunately confirmed everything I said earlier. You personally attacked & categorised 3 members of this forum simply because they dared present opinions different to yours. Not good!
You appear to thrive on aggressive confrontation as evidenced by your life problems which you chose, for reasons strange to me, to share here Perhaps a review of your own behavior might explain why you have become the victim you claim to be?
Telling people to shut up just because you didn’t get your desired response is not acceptable. I also do not believe how you are conducting yourself represents acceptable forum etiquette & request the moderators review this situation.
Kaye Lee
I read the articles and if I comment , I will read others comments and follow most links. None have convinced me to alter my opinions and in my arguments, I have the advantage. Physics is on my side.
As to peak oil, how do you like it so far?
EROEI is an equation that is rarely factored by renewable energy advocates and when it is, the scope of the analyses are always woefully inadequate.
Constantly highlighting underlying causes, even if it is wasted on closed minds, is better value than writing an article that will only disappear into oblivion after a few days.
As for links, for the past couple of months, I have been regularly posting some of many on the following pages. Please humor me and just take a peek.
Tracie, this will give you some idea of what you are in for when you challenge me to provide links.
https://theaimn.com/youve-heard-about-peak-oil-but-what-about-peak-food-and-peak-water/
Cheers.
Thanks for the explanation Kaye Lee.
I am new here & can well understand how repetitive re-presentation of the same argument can be IN THE ABSENCE of supporting data or new material.
Coming in “fresh”, I do relate closely to world population growth being the base problem when it comes to pollution, increases in the dispossessed (refugees) & the need for protecting resources for all living organisms to both maintain biodiversity on which complex natural systems & ultimately ourselves depend.
I detest arguments that relate Australia’s apparent wealth to that of other counties to justify arguments on immigration & where we ATTEMPT to locate (house) people away from the thin seaboard strip.
I have spent most of my working life as an agriculturalist (…no, I detest the rednecks in the National Party) & land use planner (..no…wrong again…not a LIB diehard either) & am subsequently in FULL AGREEMENT with the views expressed by Australia’s leading scientists some 15+ yrs ago, that beyond 14M population, a sustainable long term quality of life would be in decline.
I fear for the future…particularly in relation to climate extremes of drought ‘& heat. With the huge influx of refugees into Germany & Sweden, a number of friends residing there are indicating huge insurmountable social problems. In relative micro scale I am seeing problems first hand in Sydney’s west & south west suburbs in terms of enclaves, unemployment & crime….not that it is politically correct to say so.
You have no idea what you are doing Harquebus. I was a teacher for many years and I am a mother. When you harp on and on and on about something you become white noise. You ask people to listen to you but what you are doing is making them disregard your topic and talk about how annoyed they are with you for derailing every conversation. If you think you are increasing awareness you are sadly mistaken. You show no respect.
One of our authors/moderators (Roswell) once started an article about population. There are many arguments to consider. Economically, it is suggested that we need a population of around 30 million, but ecologically the country shouldn’t have a population over 5 million. And of course there are humanitarian considerations to take into account.
There, I’ve said my bit and unless Roswell ever returns (or H’ takes up the offer and writes an article) I won’t be mentioning it again. Yes, it is an important topic but we don’t have many authors here who specialise in this area. (Ozfrenic and Dr Anthony Horton come to mind).
It is not the only important issue, however, and we all rank their importance differently. I accept what the authors want to write about. I don’t have to agree that they are writing about what I think are the most important issues, but as far as I’m concerned they have the right to do so. But I don’t believe that they have the right to be criticised simply for writing about whatever they want to write about. Too often here the messenger is attacked, and not the message.
I must disclose that I take the asylum seeker issue seriously because I come from a family of refugees. My mother’s family came here from Syria (they were not Syrian, but Lebanese. Syria was the escape route).
Kaye Lee
I am not raising awareness in you. I know that much.
Did you view my last comments on theAIMN links that I posted? I am hoping that you and Tracie will do so.
Thanking you in advance.
I never read any of your links Harquebus. I used to but too many of them were from nutters. The good ones got lost amongst reams of crap. I look things up for myself from sources I trust. You have become like a mosquito to me…sorry but you have brought it on yourself.
I do think those topics are very important but your blatant disregard for the author’s intent and your constant repetition is downright arrogant. You are very unidimensional and it is stultifying. You seem unable to grasp that there must be immediate goals, medium and long term ones. We have to be able to deal with the multitude of complexities that life brings.
I agree there are priorities but you would have us not even talk about asylum seekers, or education, or research, or poverty, or anything else because every single f*cking time you will say it doesn’t matter because we are doomed. You NEVER offer any suggestions. You aren’t interested in ideas. You say reduce the population but have no ideas on how to do that. You have no suggestions about energy at all – not one. You don’t think improvements count for anything because we are already doomed so we may as well just stop talking or doing anything at all.
I am all for discussions broadening – bringing them all back to the same one point is unbelievably boring.
And that is more than enough time spent on explaining….I know you won’t listen.
Kaye Lee
That does not surprise me. I don’t expect you to read the articles in theAIMN links that I posted, I was just hoping that you and Tracie would take a look.
I can argue energy and population all day and can provide my solutions but, a more appropriate place and time I think would be better.
I don’t think that trying to save humanity is boring. It is essential.
I do listen. That is how I know that you do not.
I am contemplating your challenge to contribute an article. Don’t hold your breath, I have a few other things to do first.
Cheers.
Tracie Aylmer: Such arrogance from a person who is clearly not that well educated is very foolish indeed. I DID give up my house for a Kurdish refugee from Turkey. You try looking up the terms ‘benevolence’ and ‘economically viable solutions for Australians and refugees to Australia’. It’s not something about which you know anything.
” I DID give up my house for a Kurdish refugee from Turkey.”
How is that going to help change our inhumane policies?
Miter Limberg, you mean you lost the house you were renting and you were angered when, by chance, it was then let to refugees. Your prejudice has embittered you. Now you use it to sneer at those who argue for humane solutions.
Deanna Jones (:-))
It SUPPORTS refugees. Unlike the economically-incompetent, who want to look benevolent but do nothing to support anyone, including Australians who are just as deserving and worth fighting for to keep them from living in the streets. There’s much more of that since the Abbott/Turnbull Government came to power. Understanding the health of an economy and what is required to keep it afloat does not make one ’embittered’.
Gosh, this thread could go anywhere from here!
Miter…are you being deliberately nonsensical & vague in not qualifying your assertions about “giving up” your house to a refugee?
I was left bewildered by yr comment.
Like Miriam, we could all draw many different conclusions – was Ms English right or wrong?
C’mon…fess up!
Harquebus, population is a genuine problem, and it does have some, although rather indirect, relation to the main topic (the treatment of refugees by this government making us feel unsafe because of the way it is encouraging hostility in the racists here and inciting angry extremists overseas). I know you think you are trying to save the world, but you never actually present any solutions, just a wall of negativity. The population problem can be turned around by improving the ability of people to control their lives and lifting them out of deep poverty.
I would prefer that we had less people in Australia, not more, but that’s mainly because I’m a hermit who grew up way out in the bush. However if public services are improved in the cities they not only could support many more people, but that they could do so with a much better standard of living. So the argument against immigration doesn’t really hold up. And it certainly has no bearing on not rescuing refugees… especially when we are partly responsible by allowing our imbecilic government to bomb the poor bastards out of their homes in the first place.
On the topic of renewable energy vs fossil fuel, you are wrong. Not only does renewable energy have a positive Energy Return On Energy Invested (EROEI), that return is increasing as production technologies become more efficient and energy sources gradually switch to renewable forms. So energy limitations can’t really be used as an argument against refugees (or immigrants) either.
Food might be a limitation if we kept to the same land-degrading practices, but there are many experiments showing far more intensive forms of farming hold great promise. In some South-East Asian cities now they produce large amounts of food in vertical gardens. Some tomato farms have been established in the Australian desert, using solar power pumping minimal water recirculated inside enclosed greenhouses and have been earning massive profits. Solutions are limited only by human ingenuity.
We have no excuse for not allowing refugees in. It is illogical and just plain mean. It is also illegal to refuse them. Our government is violating its own agreements. They don’t even have the excuse that they’re just acting on the wishes of the majority — it turns out that’s just another lie. Most of us don’t want the refugees mistreated and want them to be allowed in.
It’s not a perfect world, is it, Miriam? I saw a good comment on Facebook (I have forgotten who said it) that went something like this: “We treat this planet as though we have a spare one to go to”.
And if there was a spare planet I’m sure this miserable government would be happy to ship the asylum seekers off to it. 🙁
Thank you Miriam.
I mostly disagree with you but, do appreciate the time you spent constructing your post.
There is only one viable solution which, I have stated too often for some.
If we do not address root causes, we will be arguing endlessly about where to house refugees.
Cheers.
Would be very interested on any links you have in that regard. If ‘credible’ then a certain contributor would lose his ‘calling card’. And then (hopefully) he could get on with his life and so could the rest of us.
I say ‘credible links’ because the ‘contributor’ in question has a penchant for providing links to nutters such as Bill Bonner. And does so without any appreciation that Bonner is a nutter. And also how it in turn reflects on his own credibility. Or subsequent – lack thereof.
Matters Not
I have tried to verify your claim that Bill Bonner is a nutter and have subsequently asked you to provide some evidence to back it.
Miriam and I have had this renewable argument before. She couldn’t prove it then and I don’t expect her to be able to prove it now. Started in August.
https://theaimn.com/youve-heard-about-peak-oil-but-what-about-peak-food-and-peak-water/
Cheers.
I shouldn’t really be peeking in here and responding. I have a heap of projects I want to finish before December (not least of which is finishing my latest novel).
I could chase up info on plummetting costs and increasing efficencies of solar cells, some of the newer technologies that require far less energy input, and the excellent return on investment of solar heating and wind energy, not to mention initial building design for minimal energy consumption so that very little energy can run a well designed, very comfortable house.
I could forgo working on my projects and do all that, but Harquebus wouldn’t accept it anyway. He’s fully committed to his end of the world scenario. The single “solution” he alludes to is not a solution at all, but simply a restatement of catastrophe: kill or sterilise billions of people.
What he never seems to realise, no matter how it is explained, is that such catastrophes actually boost births — they worsen the problem. The places with the highest birthrates are always those where living conditions are worst and where women have no power. Every catastrophe, every war produces a baby boom.
The only way to reliably, permanently, and humanely reduce births is to empower women, give them access to birth control and control over their own reproductive health (including access to safe abortion), increase standard of living, and reduce uncertainty. Unfortunately every conservative government in the world is fundamentally opposed to all those.
Miriam
I read yours and other comments and I follow links. I appreciate them.
We are both failing in our attempts to convince the other. Time will tell. Either we will have a utopian renewable energy future or we will have a dystopian energy constrained future.
I would also like to point out that, the burden of proof lays not with opponents but, with the proponents of renewable energy. Something that they have yet to do.
Thanks again for your comments. They are amongst the best.
Cheers.
Greg. I am not, in any way, being nonsensical. I am a ‘genuine’ supporter of refugees.. I was employed. I willingly gave my house to a refugee – and no, I do not know them well and they are not related to me. One is forced to act in certain circumstances. This Liberal National Party of Big Business Supporters, who care nothing for Australians,sacked hundreds of thousands of people forcing them onto welfare because there are no jobs; many became homeless including me. I am a supporter of BOTH Australian citizens and refugees by way of economically viable policies – which we do not have.
I see many who love to be seen proclaiming that they are humanitarians, making loud public noises about opening borders. These people are invariably in a family where there is employment and invariably they have never done a thing to actually substantially support refugees. Also they know nothing of the impact of Government policies on Australian citizens – many of whom now live in poverty and have no chance of employment. I find it interesting that these ‘proclaimers’ are the ones who viciously attack those who want equal opportunity – and very importantly, employment – for all. I see it in America and I see it here.
Miter, for the purposes of understanding, & perspective, can you PLEASE be more specific?
Re: The home you said you gave up to a refugee :-
– was owned/part owned OR by you?
– was a permanent arrangement with no payment then or subsequently to you by the recipient?
– resulted in you being made homeless? IOW; you did not subsequently own another dwelling to occupy?
To give away a home to someone you claim you barely knew & leave yourself homeless seems so far fetched, especially given the limited impact on the sheer numbers of refugees that I am having trouble understanding your intent.
Good article; dreadful government. This policy shows the attitude they have to human freedom ad justice and is ANTIChristian as you could possibly get. All churches should call them out on their contempt for other vulnerable humans – God’s own children in Christian teaching.
I wonder if Turnbull was emboldened by the 49% figure that Essential found was the number in a poll (they did twice) who opposed any more immigration, and came up with this proposed draconian legislation? If so, I think he must have been surprised at the reaction to it – its been wonderful to see people protesting all over the country – including 200 doctors marching in the street. Also excellent stories on TV showing how refugees have settled into Australia, with the help of good people, churches etc.
Another question for Miter, was there any government payment involved. The Dept of Housing pay an awful lot to someone with a 4/5 bedroom home with council approval to provide emergency accommodation. Not sure if this is likewise used to temporarily house refugees. Do you know?
“Germany’s Interior Ministry hardened its refugee policy, with media quoting it as saying that the EU should intercept migrant boats trying to reach Europe from across the Mediterranean and send them back to North Africa.”
“if enacted, Germany’s refugee policy could become as strict as that of Australia, which allows virtually no asylum seekers to cross its borders and instead redirects them to a distribution camp on the Pacific island of Nauru.”
“The UN has warned that the recent military offensive on Mosul could lead to another million refugees.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-06/germany-proposes-intercept-refugees-mediterranean-send-them-back-africa
“Yet another million refugees”!! …and another, then …another!
Sorry to hark/cover old territory but….
We are back (as we rightly should be) to what options are available to treat the cause, rather than having to deal with the hideously expensive resettlement of refugees.
This problem can only spiral further out of control with the burgeoning World population & subsequent increases in political instability.
So to those here that bemoan military intervention, what’s the answer? Any form of military action to protect those under oppressive regimes resulting in human atrocities & refugees, invariably results in ..more refugees!
Is the Western world better to stay out? I think not. We still have to deal with the plights of dispossessed refugees and such regimes have a habit of extending their territories and influence (911) creating even more havoc.
The answer is to help the vulnerable. Anywhere we find them we should be helping. Those in our own country as well as those in other countries. We should be increasing foreign aid, not cutting it, and we should be ensuring the money actually goes to the people it is intended for. Peter Singer has created TheLifeYouCanSave.org to help people know which are effective charities that actually do help people.
The world population problem will solve itself if we look after people. Military action, disease, starvation, ignorance, all create massive increases in birthrates. We need to work hard to stop all those.
We should take on refugees to do our part. It’s not expensive to resettle refugees here, and it’s been shown over and over again that they repay any investment many times over. We have no excuse not to do it (except shortsighted ignorance). We are unbelievably rich here in Australia. As I’ve pointed out before, I live below the poverty line here, but that still makes me part of the 1% most wealthy people on the planet.
People, like the Hansonites, think that they need to protect themselves by keeping refugees out, but they couldn’t be more wrong. By not helping the rest of the world up we are ensuring we become targets. If we help people and stand up for human rights then we become the friends of people around the world. And this is without even considering the fact that making impoverished places better off defuses the tensions that lead to conflict and hate (and higher births).
Greg, I didn’t answer your point about what to do about people stuck under horrible regimes — do we use military intervention to free these people?
No.
I think force is a mistake in 99% of situations. It usually makes things far worse. Even in situations where force looks like it works, it usually only postpones having to deal with the problem or covers it up to have it blow up in your face worse than ever later. This is what happened in Afghanistan; it gave rise to al Qaeda. I think there’s going to be hell to pay for the repellent drone war being conducted in Pakistan as a result of the pure, seething hatred being created in people who’ve seen their families and friends blown up and would have never otherwise been radicalised.
Much more sensible is to help gently. We can provide medical help, food, radios, satellite phones, Tor (the encrypted web browser and internet presence). We can coordinate on the outside to condemn the ruler, who is often very susceptible to pressure from other leaders. We can ridicule a bad leader, which can help destroy their credibility.
We can also provide books such as Gene Sharp’s From Dictatorship to Democracy, available free from many places on the internet as epub ebook, LibriVox audiobooks (USA narrator or Australian narrator), also on Archive.org, mp4 audiobook on YouTube, or as pdf ebook. As Gene Sharp points out in his book, using force against a repressive ruler is a big mistake. It attacks where your opponent has the greatest advantage and you’re weakest. Much, much smarter is to use non-violent methods.
The scheme, which is modelled on Australia’s hard-line methods, marks a radical departure from Angela Merkel’s open-door policy that saw more than a million people arrive in her country last year.”
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3913578/Merkel-s-migrant-U-turn-Germany-wants-STOP-refugees-reaching-Europe-country-continues-struggle-consequences-open-door-policy.html