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Ebola, The Taliban And God’s Punishment For Us All

If people are going to come to this country then they should they should embrace our values. It’s simple. We can’t have people who are trying to push their religious beliefs on us, can we? This is a secular country. Or a Christian country. One or the other, whatever. It’s a country where we should be free to practise whatever beliefs we like unless they involve covering too much of the body.

Melbourne is being invaded by people who don’t believe in celebrating Christmas and reject many modern practices. These are people who don’t believe in peace and have interrupted mine on a number of occasions. At the airport last night, they certainly outnumbered the people in burqas.

Apparently, 70,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses are descending on Melbourne for a world conference.

Now, I’m normally quite ok with other people’s religions – I don’t have the answers to the mysteries of life, so why should I criticise what somebody else believes? Unless, of course, they knock on my door and can’t tell me why Paul’s teachings were included in the Bible when he wasn’t the sort of man who’d be allowed to marry his partner, or whether Deuteronomy 21 Verses 10-14* still applies in modern warfare.

However, the Jehovah’s Witnesses have been doing some rather strange things in Africa. They’ve been attempting to educate people on how to stop the spread of ebola.

Education, pah! The Taliban had the right idea there. Them, and John Howard’s “Exclusive Brethren” friends. (Mm, I wonder why nobody talks about them and Australian values.) Education. No education for women. They should learn to be our obedient servants. I know that some of you have been suggesting that this is an extreme view but you’d be in the minority. Well… You’d certainly be in the minority in Mr Abbott’s Cabinet.

Don’t these Jehovah’s Witnesses understand that ebola is God’s way of getting rid of the all the people he doesn’t like? As Rick Wiles, an American preacher said:

“Ebola could solve America’s problems with atheism, homosexuality, sexual promiscuity, pornography and abortion.”

“If Ebola becomes a global plague, you better make sure the blood of Jesus is upon you, you better make sure you have been marked by the angels so that you are protected by God. If not, you may be a candidate to meet the Grim Reaper.”

So what are the Jehovah’s Witnesses trying to do by educating people on how to stop it? They should be taking Mr Wiles over to Africa where he can be allow himself to be infected with the virus – one presumes that he has the blood of Jesus upon him, so he’ll be safe – and then he can skedaddle back the good ole United States and do his bit for ridding it of all the atheists, homosexuals, fornicators, Democrat voters and anyone who watches The Simpsons.

Ah irony, don’t you love it? We invaded Afghanistan all those years ago, and one of the things we were told was that the Taliban hated Education and Western freedom. Yet now, we have a government that says that our “safety” is more important than our freedom. And, of course, we didn’t have any money for education before the “mission” (just don’t mention the war), so how much will we have to cut from the education budget now we have to pay for those humanitarian airstrikes and the troops that haven’t “been ruled out”?

The Taliban would be pleased!

*Deuteronomy Ch: 21

10 When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive,

11 And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;

12 Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;

13 And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

14 And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.

 

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85 comments

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  1. kerrilmail

    Well said Rossleigh!!
    The hypocrisy of the bible readers who selectively choose the passages that suit them and ignore the ones that don’t while they selectively choose to exaggerate the teachings of other faiths while they ignore the teachings that are acceptable to them is astonishing!!!
    I looked up King James Bible online and read the rest of the passage of Deuteronomy you quoted where it goes on to describe how you must kill a calf in the valley which sounds pretty much like a form of absolution sacrifice to me. The passages also describe how to take a son you are not happy with into the village and after explaining what a dissapointment he is allow everyone to stone him to death!!!
    Like I said enormous hypocrisy in religion.

  2. Florence nee Fedup

    I wonder if the likes of Jehovah’s Witnesses and other sects will allow their children to use school chaplains. Will not even attend classmates birthdays even in kindy.

  3. Hotspringer

    Do not underestimate the power of prayer. Science is crap. Global warming is crap. Coal is king. Forward to the age of steam with our Beloved Leader and his school chaplains.

  4. rossleighbrisbane

    Old King Coal
    Was a merry arsehole
    And a merry arsehole was he
    He called for a port and he called for some ships
    And he said that trade should be free

  5. Kaye Lee

    There once was a man called Abbott
    Who developed a rather bad habit
    He went off to war
    But knew not what for
    A chance to drop bombs and he’ll grab it.

  6. stephentardrew

    One laughs till one cries.
    Too often too close to the bone.

  7. Anne Byam

    @ Rossleigh ………. OMG …. what hast thou done now !! Written a damned good article is what.

    Deuteronomy ain’t a pretty story by any means …….. and you’ve got Kerrilmail and me lookin’ it all up !! 😉

    Point taken, but bringing in the Jehovah’s Witnesses was …. er a bit much for my delicate stomach.

    Their beliefs are … I’d like to say ——— are somewhat askew !

    70,000 of them descending on Melbourne next weekend ? …. At least that will put some shekels in the coffers of accommodation …. they compete with the Caulfield Cup ( THAT could be interesting ) …. and other festivals going on.

    ,,,,,,,,,,,

    Still and all, they believe in what they believe , and no-one should ( as you have said ) criticise. ……… Agreed.

    As long as they keep it to themselves …. and not have the likes of me shrieking to the clouds at the front door, about obscure biblical passages, that are sooooo out of date, and dangerous to today’s world ……… arrrghh … pfffft. – – – but I have digressed.

    Your main point is spot on ……. ” If people are going to come to this country then they should embrace our values.” ……….

    ………… ” We can’t have people who are trying to push their religious beliefs on us, can we? ” …… well – I happen to agree with that.

    It’s all a bit much.

  8. Chalky

    Brilliant, Kaye Lee. Can I use it please?

  9. Kaye Lee

    lol Chalky of course.

  10. abbienoiraude

    JW’s also are excused from voting, BTW. They also must leave their family if they are not of the same mind. They don’t believe in blood transfusions and they are ignorant about how our government works. They also have covered up many cases of child abuse but we won’t hear about those will we? They are a closed sect, much like the Exclusive Brethren.

    Well written Ross.

    There is a family story that is set back in 1933. My grandfather was working in the corn field on his property. He noticed a man in a black suit in the heat of the day wending his way through the corn stalks toward him. He continued with his work.
    This fellow finally called out to him and as he got nearer started on about ‘Armageddon’ and ‘the end of times that was coming soon, within the next three years.’
    My grandfather stood up and stretched his back and with a laconic reply said;
    “Look mate, it may end for you then, but for me I have corn to pull and cows to milk.”
    He continued with his work.

    Since then the number of times my father and even me have been told ‘the end is coming’ by the JW’s have been numerous.

    Now when they come to my door….(like they did yesterday) I just say; “JW’s? No thanks. Enjoy your day”.
    By being ‘nice’ they don’t get any more credits for ‘heaven’.
    Stuff ’em.

  11. Kaye Makovec

    In many Christian Scriptures, particularly in the New Testament, the Jews are vilified and called the sons of Satan responsible for Jesus’ execution which was used to set the stage for the Nazi Holocaust.

    My fear is that the vilification of Muslims is setting the stage for another holocaust.

    Somebody please tell me I am wrong.

  12. Kaye Makovec

    OMG! I just noticed the price stickers!

    🙂 🙂 🙂

    I needed that!

    PS. May I copy and paste that photo?

  13. dennis

    No Kaye, sorry you are not wrong, I think it was Mark Twain who first said, “History doesn’t repeat but it sure rhymes”
    Yes it’s all happing again, I have seen this coming since the 70’s, I remember Phillip Adams years ago on nightline
    laughing off the Christian right in America, I thought to myself, “your supposed to be an intellectual Phillip what bloody hope have we got” any way it’s all happening again, as I say the Nazis lost the war but the fascist just got bigger and better.

  14. Kaye Makovec

    🙁

  15. mars08

    Sadly, our politicians (and the MSM) show no sign of changing course. They just keep pushing us further and further down a very dark path…

    “To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

    “How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men? Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now. Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings…

    …one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty…

    …You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic…

    …the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.

    “And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God…

  16. stephentardrew

    Great bit of writing Mars8. Who wrote it?

    Prescient warning to us all.

    So much cruelty is going unchallenged and people are becoming inured to lies, prejudice, class war, cruelty and torture. I don’t know the stage we are at but we are moving along the trajectory.

  17. mars08

    stephentardrew:

    …Prescient warning to us all…

    It seems to me that most people imagine that Hermann and Helga von Deutschland just woke up one morning at decided to support Hitler’s annexation of the Sudetenland and extermination of the Jews. Apparently Hermann and Helga were an aberration… a white, blue-eyed, Christian peculiarity which could NEVER happen again. Contrary to popular belief Hermann and Helga did not appear overnight. They didn’t suddenly decide that they would follow their leaders down a dreadful path. They were ordinary people… but also the result of the corruption and manipulation of one of the most educated and enlightened nations on the planet at the time.

    The excerpt is from:

    They Thought They Were Free (The Germans, 1933-45)
    by Milton Mayer

    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

    I think that it should be mandatory reading for all school children in this country.

  18. rossleighbrisbane

    Would Abbott, Pyne and Donelly consider it left wing propaganda?

  19. Anne Byam

    @ Kaye Makovec ….. ( October 13, 2014 at 11:15 am comment )

    I wish I could tell you that you are wrong, but I can’t. It could happen with Muslims, but I sincerely pray it won’t

    While your comments about the stage being set for the holocaust was true, I don’t think it was the entire picture. Had the war not ended when it did, the Nazis would have continued their ethnic cleansing, in order to medically produce ( by experiments and other heinous acts ) a pure Aryan race – which was Hitlers’ main aim. They just started with the Jews …. and would have gone on to other dark haired individuals, no matter what religion, race or ethnicity they were.

    Such was the madman.

  20. Kaye Lee

    Hitler didn’t stop with the Jews.

    “Those humans were targeted who were identified as “life unworthy of life” (German: Lebensunwertes Leben), including but not limited to the criminal, degenerate, dissident, feeble-minded, homosexual, idle, insane, and the weak, for elimination from the chain of heredity. More than 400,000 people were sterilized against their will, while 275,000 were killed under Action T4, a “euthanasia” program.

    What many people don’t realise is that the eugenics program started in the US. By 1933, California had subjected more people to forceful sterilization than all other U.S. states combined. The forced sterilization program engineered by the Nazis was partly inspired by California’s.

    The Rockefeller Foundation helped develop and fund various German eugenics programs, including the one that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz. Upon returning from Germany in 1934, where more than 5,000 people per month were being forcibly sterilized, the California eugenics leader C. M. Goethe bragged to a colleague:

    “You will be interested to know that your work has played a powerful part in shaping the opinions of the group of intellectuals who are behind Hitler in this epoch-making program. Everywhere I sensed that their opinions have been tremendously stimulated by American thought . . . I want you, my dear friend, to carry this thought with you for the rest of your life, that you have really jolted into action a great government of 60 million people.”

  21. Sir ScotchMistery

    I have listened and watched and read and got steamed, for weeks, about the comparison between the Austrian, Adolph Hitler, and the current resident of the chair normally reserved for the prime minister and I am fed up with it.

    Stop it. Immediately.

    This is Adolph Hitler, speaking at Nuremberg Rally, in 1938. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ceLnMT0rps

    This is a collection of Tony Abbott/Peta Credlin shots about Jesus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3IaKVmkXuk

    You will notice that Abbott can’t finish a sentence without the use of the expression “ummm” and “ahhh” and “jesus knew….blah blah…”

    They cannot be compared. Hitler was quite a good speaker.

    Credlin, via the Abbott mouth, is lost with words in excess of 6 letters unless they are the word “jesus”. (Yes, Mr smart arse, Jesus has only 5 letters, so Abbott can say it clearly).

    Please… just leave Hitler alone, we’ll get back to him in a few years. Let’s just deal with this space cadet oxygen thief and his unseen mind.

  22. Kaye Lee

    I disagree. They Thought They were Free is very pertinent to our current situation. It is not about Hitler, it is how a decent, prosperous society sat back as little by little their rights were whittled away, one by one more groups were disenfranchised, advocacy groups and intellectuals were silenced, the press became a propaganda tool. People who spoke out were prosecuted.

    We MUST remember the tools they used even if the threat is not as overtly violent – it is just as insidious.

  23. randalstella

    Kaye Lee,
    I get out and about a bit. If I see any sign of eugenics, proposed or practised, I’ll let you know.

  24. Kaye Lee

    You might start with the rationale behind the Stolen Generation randalstella, or the most complete genocide in history in Tasmania.

  25. Kaye Lee

    You may also like to read about the Eugenics Society of Victoria founded in 1936.

    “Important legislation, in the form of three Mental Deficiency Bills, was presented to the parliament in 1926, 1929 and 1939 by the Victorian Premier Stanley Argyle, a friend and colleague of Berry.

    The bill aimed to institutionalise and potentially sterilise a significant proportion of the population – those seen as inefficient. Included in the group were slum dwellers, homosexuals, prostitutes, alcoholics, as well as those with small heads and with low IQs. The Aboriginal population was also seen to fall within this group.

    The first two attempts to enact the bills failed not due to any significant opposition but rather because of the unstable political climate and the fall of governments.

    The third in 1939 was passed unanimously, but not enacted in the first instance because of the outbreak of war and, later, due to the embarrassment of the Holocaust.

    Other state parliaments were inspired to also institute such legislation by Berry’s many town hall lectures across the nation.

    Important national Royal Commissions in the 1920s also recommended a range of eugenic reforms including measures relating to child endowment, marriage laws and pensions.”

    http://theconversation.com/eugenics-in-australia-the-secret-of-melbournes-elite-3350

  26. Kaye Lee

    the first Director of the Carnegie funded Australian Council for Educational Research, Kenneth Cunningham, as well as one of the most significant early psychologists, Chris McRae, published research claiming to show that working class children were unfit for academic secondary education and the university study that it led to.

    McRae replicated in Melbourne suburbs research carried out in a variety of different socio-economic suburbs of London. He subsequently reported in the Victorian Education Gazette (sent out to every state school primary teacher) that those in schools in poorer suburbs “will never go to university and should not follow the same curriculum … people live in slums because they are mentally deficient and not vice-versa”.

    In 1934 he would argue that to eliminate mental deficiency would require the sterilisation of twenty-five per cent of the population. At the same time he also advocated the “kindly euthanasia” of the unfit.

    But his legacy in Australia continued, with the Eugenics Society of Victoria operating until 1961.

  27. Kaye Lee

    Paid Parental Leave Scheme and tax concessions for the wealthy vs GP co-payments, unemployed youth with no income for 6 months, and lower indexation for pensions. Reneging on the Gonski reforms and deregulating uni fees. Any sign of current day eugenics yet?

  28. Anne Byam

    Kaye is correct ….. ( October 14, 2014 at 1:10 pm comment ) …….

    The book “They Thought they were free ” was indeed about the slow erosion of a people, their integrity, their courage and their freedoms … ” little by little – whittled away.” …… Hitler, being the architect of the slow death of individualism, prosperity, and ability to speak freely …. was of course mentioned many times. But it was more about the inertia of the people – that was the main thrust.

    And yes, today’s situation in Australia IS just as insidious.

    ———-

    Q : …. at exactly what point does the effects of these injections of fear, poisonous thought, lies etc. hit the target in the populace, turning them from average happy folk, into a population of depressed and despairing souls ? Is there a half life on these injections of fear ? Or are they being daily given, to keep the effect on the country, right up to 100% … in the collective psyche ?

  29. stephentardrew

    Sir Scoto:

    You notice I did not say we were there I said we were somewhere along that trajectory through ignoring social justice and allowing torture and vilification of refugees. How far is far enough. Well I will tell you right now this is more than far enough for me and these fools are willing to take us further. Read Brandis in the Guardian today and the fawning of Shorten; Abbots head but to Putin, Abbott’s’ coal ignorance; his ridiculous war mongering; destruction of welfare; selling off Medicare; and on and on it goes as day by day we are being pulled further to the right. Capitalism is an undemocratic greed infested mess while the rich get richer and the poor poorer. The media is in control of the so called lifters and that is not of concern. A good read of McLuhan would not go amiss. How bad do you want it to get until we make reasonable and well weighted comparisons about degree of dysfunction. This is not the Labor I grew up with it is simply wiping its history clean through bleating conformity. Without an effective opposition we are in trouble. A reasonable comparison of trajectory is not confirmation we are there yet. Lets just be cognizant of the warning signs and make sure we go no further.

  30. randalstella

    Kaye Lee,
    This place would fall apart without your contributions. However…
    I’ll start by calling your hyperbole self-defeating bullshit.
    I can google ‘eugenics’ as well as you. And I have fought in detail for indigenous rights. So, kindly desist from telling me where to start.

    There is surely more than enough to get this odious regime – its lies on education, health, workplace relations etc. Who in their right mind would feel a need to liken current political prevalence with eugenics?

    Because of its propensity to indiscriminate hyperbole, this place is becoming itself a hard case for the discussion of reality.
    About a month or so ago there was Abbott ‘the terrorist’. Now it’s Abbott the eugenicist, is it? Well, is it?

    You are digging a large hole for your political credibility; and viability at large. Is it that the target is too easy; or is it frustration that this chatting together has no inclination to get beyond its confinements?
    As an opponent of the LNP Government, I object to the assumption that activism is stronger as oddball imputations. I used to recommend the site.

  31. Kaye Lee

    randalstella,

    I have a love of learning. My mind heads in many directions as discussions unfold. I DO think our past Indigenous policy was an exercise in eugenics and I included the historical law references for interest sake because I doubt many know about it. If I sounded like I was lecturing you I apologise. it was not my intention.

    Perhaps you can tell me what to call it when public policy is so blatantly geared towards assisting the wealthy and discriminating against the poor. Eugenics may not be the appropriate term but considering the references to the poor not being worth educating in the historical references then I don’t consider it hyperbole to point out the comparisons.

    I am sorry you no longer feel able to recommend this site. I think the discussions well worth a read. Not everything is about Tony Abbott.

  32. Kaye Lee

    I also studied genetics at university and have an interest as I wrote a paper on eugenics. I didn’t google in the blind hope of finding something.

  33. randalstella

    Kaye Lee,
    I withdraw my comment about your knowledge of eugenics. I was misled by your rhetoric.
    Did your University paper use wild imputation?

    I agree with you that the label ‘eugenics’ is not appropriate. How about just describing what actually happens; what are the political realities here and now? You have done that frequently and well.
    It is a bad sign for the site when you fall under the spell of hyperbole.

    It’s not just about Abbott? Obviously not entirely; but the reductive lout is a target for obsessively dotty claims here. He was depicted here as something of a sexual exhibitionist for going for a swim wearing bathers. It was quite the theme one recent weekend. This sort of treatment is no danger to him; and a peril to the fair reputation of the site.

    I hope Michael Taylor is well.

  34. Kaye Lee

    Can we get some perspective back here?

    If you follow the course of the conversation I think your accusations of “wild imputation” and “hyperbole” are unfounded. Like mars08, I too can see the similarities between They Thought They Were Free and the erosion of our rights today as an unsuspecting public sit back and watch our country being sold out from under us, as we watch the abominable treatment of asylum seekers, as we watch rampant greed and corruption become the norm, and as the most vulnerable come under attack in the budget from hell.

    The eugenics conversation came up in response to Anne’s comments about Aryan race. As I said, I doubt many people know that the eugenics movement started in the US and was also embraced here. It was an historical discussion for interest sake rather than implying Abbott wants to kill us.

    However, as the conversation developed that way, positive eugenics is defined as “encouraging reproduction by persons presumed to have inheritable desirable traits.”

    “If we want women of that calibre to have families, and we should, well we have to give them a fair dinkum chance to do so. That is what this scheme of paid parental leave is all about.”

    (Oops, your last comment has disappeared randalstella)

  35. randalstella

    Oops, how come?
    I have tried to reply to your last excuse, yesterday afternoon; but it has failed to register. Yet you can reply to this same attempted post, it seems, with my words in front of you.
    ‘Some perspective’? Like implying eugenics as an historically possible consequence of the Abbott regime? Try that one in a public forum.

    I see the very obvious similarities on encroaching authoritarianism, but I don’t see eugenics. For ‘eugenics’ to mean anything arguable, you must mean it literally. The use of it otherwise seems extreme speculation; just hyperbole.

    Try to stay with the literal when making accusations. It will mean you are taken more seriously; and might even be trusted.
    This is a very large fall for you. Without your credibility the site is cactus.

  36. Kaye Lee

    Your comment was there when I looked this morning. I don’t know where it went.

    I am not making excuses in any way. You seem absolutely determined to put words into my mouth that were never uttered. You seem to want to abuse me for things I did not say nor imply so perhaps if you be specific about what ‘accusations’ I have made then I will better understand how I have had a “very large fall” in your eyes. I resent unjustified attacks on my credibility and do not feel they were warranted.

  37. randalstella

    I am still trying to post the comment that you keep referring to. It still does not post. How was it there when you looked this morning when we saw no sign of it, each time we tried to post it?

    You can resent what you wish. The ‘discussion’ of eugenics is plain loopy;and would be without motive if not an imputation against the current regime. Do try it on a public forum.

  38. abbienoiraude

    This has been a somewhat confusing discussion between randalstella and Kaye Lee, re eugenics.

    My father, being born 1918 was brought up on eugenics. He imbued me with the notion that:
    “Aboriginal peoples are from the stone age and therefore have no place in the modern world. They should and will die out naturally, as long as we don’t ‘mate’ with them.”
    He also used to teach;
    “If we men smell a woman of a different race they are repulsive to us. It is unnatural for us to sleep with them. For instance an Indian woman smells ‘off’ to me. It would be unnatural for us to have children together.”

    With this kind of overt racist upbringing it did take me some years after leaving home at 17 to slough off this kind of idea/ideal of ‘eugenics’. I have been exposed to it all my life, so am more keenly aware than some?

    I have actively, throughout the “Reconciliation” years, apologised in writing and face to face, to my Indigenous Australians for the damage people like my father did to the long and painful journey they have had since white mans invasion.

    So if that is the kind of explanation Kaye is trying to expose here, through the continuing attitudes of Abbott et al, then I can see how important it is to be aware of how insidious and invasive such claims, thoughts and diatribes can be.

  39. Kaye Lee

    I can’t answer your question about your comment. As I say, it was there this morning. By the time I posted my reply it was gone.

    Isn’t this a public forum?

    And I will discuss anything I damn well please. I do not need a “motive” to discuss history. You obviously have no interest in the topic – I do. Once again, I would ask you to show me what accusations or imputations I made. Could it be that you have misunderstood what was, for me, an interesting historical discussion and put your OWN imputations on what was meant or not meant?

  40. stephentardrew

    Hey guys eugenics is so last century so lets just move on. I have no doubts about Kaye or your integrity randalstella however we have bigger fish to fry. At times I make controversial statements and am sometimes wrong and when people point it out either change or belligerently stick to my sooky know it all guns. Democracy and free expression after all. We are all on the same side and need to be a bit tolerant.

  41. Anne Byam

    @randalstella. ….. have had it explained to me that anything that shows the moderators name at all … is programmed to go into a spam filter. Happened to me a while back and I complained rather loudly !! …… I have found on other websites, that moderators are usually not contactable, except through email ( when submitting an article etc. ). It stands to reason, as moderators of a site would be beseiged by complaints, requests, abuse etc. A moderator can watch and make comment whenever he / she likes. That’s as much as I understand.

    ============

    As for the eugenics thing. I certainly didn’t want to start a riot.

    I mentioned the Nazi’s because they – with evil intent – actually destroyed populations, in part to leave a choice of preferably blond children – with certain facial, bodily and tissue characteristics – face shape, size and even measurements taken ….. to ‘create’ a new superior race – never before known. – – – They had other agendas too, to get rid of 6 million Jews. ….. there could never have been a hint of Jewish blood in their ‘new generation of Aryan pure breds’. The medical procedures were experimental …. they experimented on children. ….. Kaye continue it – as you now know – as a ‘side discussion’.

    I only introduced that to show the effect that ( historically ) wicked leaders can have on their people – and the extent to which it can go to – IF the people do not stand up for themselves – singularly but preferably as a united front. And that’s mainly what the book “They Thought they were Free ” was about – the people did not stand up for themselves ( putting it simplistically ).

    At no time did I think or wish to infer that specific ‘breeding’ would take place in our own country – at any time because of some law or other – and neither did anyone else. ……..

    Specific breeding for looks, gait, the reduction in inherited characteristics that are dangerous to health – colour, size and appeal – IS done everywhere …….. on dogs, cats, horses, cattle, sheep …… you name it in the animal kingdom …. and not always with good outcomes either. Some are tragic outcomes – but I won’t elaborate.

    ==========

    Stephentardrew is right …… Eugenics is sooo last century. ( Doesn’t mean it couldn’t raise it’s ugly head again, or hasn’t somewhere in the world ) ……….. but has not in OUR world – – here.

    Just because the Abbott and his fraternity, prefers the company of wealthy bods to middle / low wage earners, does not mean he is going to introduce anything so vile as ‘specific breeding’. We all have ( if we are to be totally honest ) our preferences as to who we mingle with … … like attracts like, often enough. Ethnic groups, while integrated well, still often prefer the company of people of their own origins. Being a multi-cultural society, we all accept that as the norm.

    And there is certainly a penchant displayed by this Government … to financially degrade the poor, disenfranchised, elderly etc. while they hand out big bucks to rich mates. ( I think most of their policies will NOT make it past the Senate – frankly ).

    The LNP policies / budget are disgusting – but has nothing to do with selective breeding – or eugenics. It’s just plain wrong, cruel and ignorant.

    BUT, if we do not stand up to this Government in a big way, then I repeat what I said before ( in part )……

    ……..” the inertia of the people – – – – And yes, today’s situation in Australia IS just as insidious. ” ………

    meaning, we are in danger of seeing our freedoms eroded, our collective integrity dumbed down, and our standard of living reduced.

    ===========

  42. Anne Byam

    @abbienoiraude ….. how dreadful were the ideas that your father had …. but he was a product of the post Victorian era, who were elitist in every sense, and anybody of dubious colour, character, ethnicity were not welcome …. and indeed were seen to have to be somewhat eradicated if possible. My parents were of the same era, and while not as vocal in that way, certainly displayed that ‘Victorian’ mindset.

    If anyone wants to read about true class distinction and its terrible consequences, “The Raj Quartet” by Paul Scott – beginning in 1942 and spread through 4 volumes of novels would tell all. …… the books were made into a superb BBC series …. “The Jewel in the Crown” lauded by many as one of the best series to ever come out of Britain. ……. No punches were pulled in those books. They were based on fact.

    ============

    All my family were ultra-strict, always using fear to persuade good behaviour. That was because of THEIR upbringing. A member of my family used to go and hide whenever the sound of horses hooves happened on the road. It was either the iceman, the baker or ….. the garbage collector ….. she was threatened to be put ‘into that bag at the back’ …. ( the bag was for bottles, and the bottle necks and bottoms stuck out at all angles …. looking like arms and legs, to a frightened child ) …. and taken away never to see her family again … IF she didn’t behave herself. The garbage man was hardly dressed in suit and tie …. he looked dirty, unkempt, unshaven by the end of the day and had on a leather apron and large leather type gloves …. because it was a very dirty job. She was petrified, and hid under piles of clothing in a wardrobe. ……

    To this day that family member – now in her 60’s, will not pass a homeless person, dressed in rags and sitting on the street – or for that matter a busker who looks down and out. …… She spots a ragged person, stops – crosses the street until she is well past the area, and then crosses back again. ……… Such was the impact those threats had on her, all those many years back. …. I have tried to help her in this regard, but it falls on deaf ears.

    Thought I should share that story with you considering how you were raised as well …. and more power to you for overcoming the misguided type of attitude you had been brought up with. ……….. I tossed off a lot of my own upbringing, dealt with it and through endless study, have found much more to life than my childhood years might have promised.

  43. Kaye Lee

    I think we all had relatives like abbie’s. Lang Hancock felt emboldened enough to air his views on film along with a few other people. The scary thing is this film comes from 1984 – not that long ago.

  44. stephentardrew

    The new version of sociological control is going to be firstly genetic engineering, secondly horizontal gene transfer and thirdly prosthetic interfaces both physically and implanted as well magnetic cranial stimulation will alleviate negative emotions and so on. Eugenics is over and done with with the rise of these new technologies. As usual it will be a double edged sword however seeing we have not yet really taken eugenics or nuclear war to its end game I am sure, with a few glitches along the way, that the benefits will out-way the negative consequences. The level of violence is actually decreasing (Stephen Pinker) education is becoming more universal and sciences impact and foundational rules will become the norm. Logic will also be demonstrated to be the only way we can solve the mad ideological nonsense from the right. The dynamics will be complex and play out over some extended period in time. Personally I m excited though may not live to see much of what is to come. Self-repairing, self-programing, self-replicating machines have the ability to take the drudgery out of life while technological change is growing exponentially leading to sophisticated artificial intelligence. That is why I state that eugenics is old school. The future is actually mind warping. All of this is happening around us now and though many may not be cognizant of the fact it will happen regardless. Virtual reality will come into its own and renewable energy will be the future. Takes time and and there will be periods of conflict and suffering along the way but if all goes well we will get there. 40,000 years from Cro Magnon man and we are still here. Odds are looking pretty good we will stay for some rater extended time to come. Just gotta deal with the bull-shit first.

  45. Rossleigh

    Ok,first point, eugenics was more about an attitude than anything that was actually done so let’s not bandy that overused word “hyperbole” about too much.
    Secondly, there’s a certain irony that one of the first groups to talk about eugenics was the “Hugh Moore” society.
    No, I’m not Joe King…

  46. Rossleigh

    BTW – that was all from memory, like my post on Salman Rushdie…

    Salman Rushdie Is Still Alive!


    God, I hope people understand irony.

  47. Kaye Lee

    “The word was coined in 1883 by Francis Galton, a cousin of Charles Darwin. Galton believed that the proper evolution of the human race was thwarted by philanthropic outreach to the poor: Misguided charity encouraged the “unfit” to bear more children. This upset the mechanism of natural selection. Hence, the human race needed a kind of artificial selection, which he called “eugenics,” from Greek for good birth. Galton wanted eugenics to develop from a science to a policy and finally into a religion.

    Many lay popularizers of eugenics also appealed to religious traditions to promote their agenda. The most notable, it seems, was Albert Edward Wiggam, who travelled the lecture circuit promoting eugenics as “the final program for the complete Christianisation of mankind.”

    Far be it from me to accuse anyone of anything, but….. less handouts to the poor, Christianisation, the poor aren’t worth educating….it is sounding strangely familiar.

  48. corvus boreus

    stephentardrew,
    I’ve got short term odds on us flogging our ride till we’re bucked into extinction,
    and long term odds on our descendents morphing past the species,
    but I’m rooting for the same team.

  49. Anne Byam

    Ye Gods and little fishes StephenT …. !!! ( PLEASE read !! ) ref. yr comment – October 15, 2014 at 5:28 pm.

    Your comments, acknowledged on a philosophical scale, are quite terrifying.

    Eugenics was a ‘kindergarten’ form of contemplation – to reduce negative influences, traits and genetic impurities in what was seen as ‘inferior’ humans !! … way back when …. …… eugenics was the spring-board. But ….. they are indeed now redundant.

    To be replaced by much more frightening and de-humanising methods of control of the worlds’ populace. That is what I read in your comment.

    Stephen Pinker ( from what I have researched ) is a highly acknowledged philosopher, psychologist and ‘popular science author’, among many other things. He has been acknowledged world wide – as one of the best. He is however, human – and could make a few errors here and there !! ??

    How do I dare then question your quote ” The level of violence is actually decreasing (Stephen Pinker) “. …. I would seriously like to know when he might have made that statement ( I cannot find it ) . Because the level of violence in the WORLD community ( ours of course included ) seems to have INCREASED. From where I sit, it has !!

    It’s not a question of world war unutterable violence, brutality and death; it is not a question of which country is more inclined to inflict the worst on their society …… it is an overall picture of de-stabilisation, of insecurity, …… and indeed of increased violence – everywhere. We are besieged via the MSM ( whether it is for ratings or not !!!! ) …. with daily reports of violence on our own streets …… in the U.S. ….
    ( and in North Korea we can only imagine ), and particularly in the Middle East. ….. The high and climbing incidence of drug use in most countries, the violence that can emanate from that, and daily reports of some form of incidence of death, destruction – from violence…. . not to mention the domestic violence which seems to be rife, and will not decrease – as impositions on wages, utilities costs, cost of living and lack of job availability soars…. and the avenues for escape ( via on-line casino, local pub/club gambling and big time casino gambling ) increases. So – violence is in fact increasing ?? in my opinion.

    ——-

    Genetic engineering has already been done, developed and executed. In food – and in animals ( to a less degree ) …. it doesn’t take much to realise the next step would be humans. ….. ( probably proffered at a nice $ amount for protocol experimentation – under good guidance principles of course ). …… Horizontal gene transfer …. ? That has made me shudder. There is vertical and there is horizontal. ……. vertical is direct from mother (egg fertilised and carrying genetic traits ) to offspring – horizontal is engineered.

    On a lighter note, I know the difference between the two, as I raise chooks. Vertical transference of an inclination ( i.e. toward a specific disease ) is more difficult to manage, than horizontal …. which is selective.

    I dare not get into prosthetic inferfaces. The only type I know of are prosthetic limb replacements ….. Heaven ( or whatever ) help us if there are any further, particularly to the mind – interference thereto, perhaps even implanted identification chips, ( although I think that’s hysteria from the fundamentalist groups in religion — from what I gather. )

    Well Stephen T. ……….. Thanks ( I think ) ……. for an enlightened insight iinto what possibiities lie before us.

    ………. ” The future is actually mind warping. ” ………… you can say THAT again !!

    I don’t cry for myself, but for my grand-children.

  50. Anne Byam

    Kaye Lee ….. ( October 15, 2014 at 7:36 pm – your comment ) …..

    Good further thought and research on the subject at hand. Thanks for that.

  51. stephentardrew

    Hang on Anne new generation and a whole new ball game. Nature has a way of sorting things out. Complexification and self-organization is built into evolution and is not interested in our opinions. There will be new and astounding discoveries that will militate against self-destruction. The same fear that drives conservatism can infect progressives because it is hardwired into our limbic system. In every epoch there is doom and gloom however here we are and will be for some time to come. Either cringe in fear or be part of the reasonable application of innovative science. We are made to experiment, warts and all.

    No one can demonstrate that genetic engineering will not have vast benefits and some downside however by focusing on the downside we could miss out on alternative pathways to revisionary discoveries. An understanding of deep time may help. We are only seeing a small part of the picture and our interpretations are blinded by epoch and primitive magical and mythical thinking. A more rational mind is going to emerge and it will eventually work itself out. That, in deed, appears to be the trend. Remember our lifetimes are a mere blip in the ocean of time. You know billions of years of evolution and it is still chugging along nicely. The sum bonum of evolution is not regressive or stagnant it is forever moving and exploring new niches both physical and psychological.

    Combine an understanding of Georg Cantor’s set theoretical axioms of infinity and the implications of infinite inflationary universe with the dynamics of evolution and you end up with a mind boggling matrix of possibilities and potentialities. Our universe is just one pathway through the matrix of infinite universes and is what it has to be. It will all work out in the wash. You have to see the magic and trust the process.

    Your children may see beyond horizons we could not imagine. When I was a kid our bread and milk came by horse and cart. Used to sit around the radio. Dirt street no gutters. Old puffin billy up the street nestled in amongst almond orchards. Now look. Bloody awesome.

    Stephen Pinker “The Better Angles of our Nature” Engrossing read and impeccably researched

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature

  52. mars08

    We are only seeing a small part of the picture and our interpretations are blinded by epoch and primitive magical and mythical thinking. A more rational mind is going to emerge and it will eventually work itself out. That, in deed, appears to be the trend. Remember our lifetimes are a mere blip in the ocean of time…

    Glass half full?

    You may be right in contemplating a bright future.

    But a couple of things stop me from sharing you optimism. Given that “our lifetimes are a mere blip in the ocean of time”… as is the whole of recorded history, what make you think that homo sapiens isn’t just another evolutionary dead-end? After all, nature has plenty of time to sweep the board clean and start again.

    We are seeing technology racing ahead at a stunning rate, but I fear that our morality and maturity are not keeping pace. If this “more rational mind” is what will save us from ourselves… it better get here very, very soon.

    Yeh, I can remember listening to the radio as a kid… and getting our first black and white TV. It was about the same time as the nuclear arms race…

  53. Anne Byam

    Stephen ……… I have read every word on the link you provided, and have now gone to Amazon.com to order a copy of the book. I would have to read it ” Better Angels of our Nature ” to figure it out for myself.

    There was as much positive as negative comment about the book ….. the title itself is ‘ titillating ” and promises much in the positive sense. …. But one can never judge a book by it’s cover. I would think ( from the commentary on the link ) that he has covered many aspects of violence – both from a demographic point, from history, from the state of the world today – but I have yet to read it, so shall say no more on that. I do think it will be more than interesting, though.

    =====

    I feel somewhat ashamed that I did not for one second, consider nature ….. in absolutely every respect …. taking it’s course. …. It always has, and it always will. The human condition is something that could be studied for many more thousands of years, and never completely understood. The slightest variance from one human to another, is enough to make that deliberation, impossible. … and there are many more than ” slight variances. ”

    I kind of think the ‘doom and gloom’ that almost 100% of people experience, at some time or other in their lives, is rather like ‘the darkest hour before dawn’ …. an old adage, but nonetheless pretty spot on.

    I understand the ‘concept’ of deep time …. but have never studied geology …. except for the fact that my son is in Antarctica – and some study of that has opened up a whole new sphere of intrigue for me …. as there is much to be learned from that ‘other planet’ that he and his colleagues are on ( and it does seem like another planet altogether !! 🙂 … ) ……. Gee whiz …does it what.

    I could never get into Georg Cantor … !! ……….. he was a mathematician, and boy – was that NOT my strong point during education !

    Very much appreciate and acknowledge your reply Stephen…… thank you.

  54. stephentardrew

    Mars8:

    There is this strange sentient biological obsession that we are at some zenith of evolution which is just ridiculous. We are just another transitional species and I have the feeling that the future will be bio-silicon-quantum virtual reality interface which will reach astounding levels of subjective complexity even entering what is known as polytope space, a four spatial dimension landscape, mathematicians have already been modeling. Degrees of freedom will expand exponentially. Traveling the universe is a fools game in terms of relativity and time dilation and the amount of energy needed is extraordinary however we can already model dynamic imagined abstractions that include aliens and alien worlds and we haven’t even met any aliens yet. Besides that the stats on exo planets suggest there are millions if not billions of habitable planets out there. Recently a new type of complex carbon based molecule capable of building proteins has been found in nebulae. Life, it seems, will be ubiquitous. Using our current form as a guide to the future is truly silly when we are so vulnerable to disease and early death. It is no mistake the universe is not teaming with aliens because our experiences are actually richer and more dynamic internally while the fundamental laws and constants that constrain material reality are finely tuned and very rigid. However the degrees of freedom in subjective space allow us to mentally do things that are impossible in material reality. If complexification and self organization is an imperative of evolution then subjective space is the most complex domain we know, riding upon unit volume complexity, and it is where the next direction evolution will take us. I feel joy and happiness in my self; I feel love and beauty within my heart and mind, I feel peace within ; I feel love empathy and compassion for my fellow sentient and non-sentient beings; I can imagine, and reach out to subjective infinity, so we are not as we think external travelers but creatures of subjective wishes hopes, desires and inner emotional satisfactions. We are still struggling with magic and mythology and bodily survival driven by visceral fears so we cannot see the wood or the trees. When you realize the dynamic complexity then the chance of survival is immensely greater than we would expect taking our current conditions as read. Then we can work towards solving our meanness, selfishness and brutality. One thing we desperately need is a positive feeling that this is a wonderful and mysterious joirney that we can explore scientifically yet recognise ther is vastly more than we could possibly know.

    Look at Jaques Fresco The Venus Project, Ray Kurzweil and Exponential Growth (by the way I have issues with his transformational singularity theory), Singularity University, The Earth Institute at Cambridge University; Jeffery Sachs “The End of Povery; Kotler and Diamandis “Abundance: The future is Better Than You Think; Diets and O’Neill “Enough is Enough; CASSE Steady State Economy stedystate.org; Jeremy Rifkin “The Third Industrial Revolution”; Peter Singer “A Life You Can Save” Science Daily: Pshy.org and the endless connections spreading out from each and whole new world is coming into being. Thats without looking at breaking discoveries in renewable energy research. Many are just too damn busy to get out into the public domain thous some Like Singer, Rifkin and Sachs certainly try and there are also political constraints upon innovative ideas. Many more but that is more than sufficient.

  55. mars08

    stephentardrew:

    There is this strange sentient biological obsession that we are at some zenith of evolution which is just ridiculous. We are just another transitional species…

    No doubt.

    But I would like to see the human race doing all it can to PRESERVE the species… I don’t see any benefit in hastening our own extinction.

    Until very recently evolution of this planet was the result of being able to adapt to changes in the environment… of being suited to it.

    These days we have the power to alter our environment. It’s not just nature that’s driving changes to our planet… we are messing with it as well. In fact, it’s not necessarily nature at all!! We now have the ability to radically change our environment or circumstances in the space of a few years.

    I think there’s a certain arrogance in believing that homo sapiens has the power to both radically alter our environment…. AND control any evolution spurred by that change.

    I suspect that we won’t have much say in the NATURE of whatever dominant species follows us.

  56. stephentardrew

    Mars8: I agree however the variables are much broader the more complex a system becomes so I think our chances of survival are pretty hight though there is going to be substantial modification of our biology.

  57. mars08

    Some of “my grandfather’s axe” in that comment…

    I’m not sure that “our chances of survival” would be all that high after any rapid and/or cataclysmic change we brought on ourselves. I doubt that homo sapiens would have the capacity, skill or time to adapt to such an environment.

  58. stephentardrew

    Ah but we don’t adapt nature does regardless. It all hinges on deep time. Theres always time unless the world is blown away.

  59. Florence nee Fedup

    One only has to look at the change our early farmers bought to the land past the Great Dividing Range, when they clear the land for farming. Huge areas of erosion, turning the land into a useless mass. Yes, we have the power, to alter the environment we live in. Not for the better either.

  60. stephentardrew

    Florence:

    For nature there is no better or worse just process. All opinions are subjective appropriations. Nature nearly always has time to recover like billions of years.

  61. Möbius Ecko

    Can someone explain the logic of this government not sending medical help to the Ebola effected regions because it refuses to send Australians into harms way and says it cannot support them, but they have no hesitation whatsoever in sending Australians into harms way into war zones at massive ongoing expense, giving all the support and resources they require?

  62. stephentardrew

    Mobius Ecko:

    Cowardice: Vote seeking.

  63. rossleighbrisbane

    Sorry, Möbius, but I think you’ll find the phrase “logic of this government” is an oxymoron

  64. Möbius Ecko

    Exactly stephentardrew.

    With the former, if an Australian becomes ill or dies then this government will get negative fallout. With the latter, if someone is injured or killed they can make mileage out of being at the hospital bed or attending the funeral whilst handing out medals and praise for the brave warrior who put their lives on the line to save Australia.

    One loses votes the other gains them.

  65. Möbius Ecko

    Even being ex-military I can’t believe this bullshit from our military. They really have to be friggin’ kidding.

    The Chief of Joint Operations has said in a briefing that Australian air strikes have had a significant impact on IS morale, undermining their notion of invulnerability.

    So six Australian planes must have done an awful lot of strikes and killed huge amounts of IS fighters to destroy their morale?

    Well no. 43 sorties in which only two dropped an unspecified amount of weapons and caused an unspecified amount of damage. Yet Rear Admiral David Johnston will have us all believe they have put a huge dent in the IS.

    Please, propping up Abbott with that much bullshit just isn’t worth the extra money for Defence.

  66. Möbius Ecko

    Whilst on about howlers from this government, another one that the media won’t widely report is Dutton’s announcement that Australia is the most prepared of all advanced nations for Ebola.

    He made that statement just before the Federal Health Department announced a survey into Australia’s preparedness for an Ebola outbreak here. So yet again we have the Abbott government preempting something that hasn’t started or concluded.

    He was queried as to why we would be having a survey into our preparedness when he said we are the best prepared of all advanced countries. He replied it was standard to review your procedures every now and again.

    http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2014/s4108890.htm

    And note his other abstraction on why he’s not sending any Australians to assist in Ebola outbreak regions. On the one hand he says we have the best medical preparedness and medical support here but we can’t provide that support to someone in the field in another country.

    This is the same contradiction they have trotted out on from the start but not a single media outlet or reporter will challenge them on it.

  67. Florence nee Fedup

    Can someone please list :our values: Not sure what they mean.

  68. mars08

    Quite happy to kill, mutilate and maim brown people… over there… to prevent them attacking good, irreproachable Aussies in our suburbs… even though there is no evidence of such a plot.

    But unwilling to stop a deadly disease… over there… which is already spreading internationally.

    Interesting priorities.

  69. Florence nee Fedup

    Mobius do you have any concerns with defence chiefs out every day, doing the bidding of Abbott. At the same time, we are not allow to hear anything from the defence bloke that is supposed to run Sovereign Borders. Why do they need to appear at all, unless something extraordinary happens. Like a plane falling from the sky.

    We seem to be getting a blow by blow description of what they are doing. Sadly, does not seem much at all. Also Abbott is still waiting for permission to take his troops into Iraq.

    no one seems to be bothered to reply to him, whether Iraq or European countries in regard to Ebelo.

  70. Anne Byam

    Mobius Ecko….

    ref. your last sentence above. ……. I read the link and listened to the play back …. and it appeared to me that Michael Brissenden ( ABC ) did indeed challenge Dutton …. in a somewhat ‘soft’ way – but none-the-less sneaky as well. I have always held that the ABC will kick both ways, to provide what they might call a ‘balance’ of information – and at the same time, trying to remain in some form of neutral territory with their reporting. I do not think they are completely in the Governments corner.

    So – that was one media outlet that actually addressed the subject, and put Dutton on the spot – ( Dutton kept going around in circles – which is not too surprising is it ? ). Dutton also contradicted himself – as you said …. and a good reporter will lead a person to do just that – if that is indeed the purpose of the interview – – – to trip someone up.

    The likes of Leigh Sales, who repeatedly talks over the top of people being interviewed, is the dominant on our TV screens, and is not too much of an asset to the ABC – in my opinion. She ‘swallows’ the programme, so that the interviewee is not seen in the light they should be seen in – if they are culpable for any situation ( and there’s a container ship load of culpability by this rabid Government ).

    As for the other mob – forget Murdoch – his rags are not being sold as they had been, and people are turning to all kinds of reporting on issues that interest them – on the internet. This includes what we didn’t have before – interstate and overseas newspapers and daily reports from them – and while Abbott might be able to ‘control’ Murdoch ( something I would call an impossiblity actually !!! ) he has no say whatsoever over every piece of news print – especially on line. ……. I’ll just bet he wish he had. !!

    I honestly have noticed in recent weeks, newscasts turning to more ‘questioning’ of the Government, and at times outright criticism.

    Let’s hope more and more jump on that band wagon and get the message across ….. that this Government MUST go ( to hell preferably ).

  71. stephentardrew

    Florence:

    It’s all snakes and mirrors while they leave us no ladder to climb up onto. Honestly once you start believing your own lies the boundaries separating truth and falsity blur until you do not know the difference between either. It is a classic case of fear and cowardice presented as (Da, Da… glorious fanfare) “Heroic Military Endeavor.” Our glorious military leader, after all this time, can only claim that two planes dropped something on somebody, you know, somewhere over there. “It put a huge dent in ISIS and changed the direction of the war.” It would be a farcical comedy if it wasn’t so damn serious.

    The naught fibbing children are out lying to the media again. Send them to bed without dinner the naughty boys. The big bad Abbott shirt-front bully is too afraid to appear on the now, right of center, ABC. As for that scary Ebola stuff he almost looks panicked by it, skid marks and all. The point is are Australians really that dumb to believe this tripe.

    Put blankly the guy is a lying fool scared of his bloody shadow. Without Rupert Lying Monger Geriatric and the IPA fascists he is just a bully hiding behind his pathetic budgie smugglers.

    Look it me, look it me, look it me ain’t I just the she, oops, he man. As Mars8 pointed out he really has a man crush for Vlad the Impaler. Lotsa jealousy.

    Piffle just let the dementia roll over you little emotionally immature Tony.

  72. Florence nee Fedup

    Seems Iraq is in our region & our concern, Not so west Africa. Not our region. Not our concern.

  73. Florence nee Fedup

    I seem to recall. back in the days of Howard & Ruddock, taking refugees from that region in Africa was more important than taking those stranded in Indonesia and Malaysian. Our concern then it appears.

  74. Florence nee Fedup

    Wonder why we have not seen Abbott playing dress up in clothing and equipment that those nursing Obelo patients?

  75. Florence nee Fedup

    Stephen, it is hard walking both sides of the fence when PM. Hard having a version for all audiences.

  76. Anne Byam

    Florence. ….. I could make a comment here about walking on both sides of the fence …. but I think moderators might delete it – in the interests of decency !!!

    Just take a gander at the ‘walk’ on the Abbott. It is designed to ” look ” like he is carrying the weight of the world there !!! THAT is the sign of a man who is very much NOT sure of his masculinity, his power, or his position in society. …… I have seen it before – on others – who had ultimately a lot of problems to sort through. …… they were sorted, and a more normal ‘walk’ ensued. A walk that did not denote that “I am going to beat the shite out of ya “. ,,,,, Sad, but true.

    Take a GOOD look at his body language …….. it is ? weak, puerile, and completely ineffective …. not to mention worrying.

    While he is in charge – we are in trouble.

  77. Florence nee Fedup

    Anne, I was thinking of piles. Yes, body language does show one well out of his depth.

  78. Florence nee Fedup

    He also strikes me as a lonely man, with no close friends. Would not know what to do with them, if he found one. I find him very much like Rudd. Except that Rudd was clever and had a brain. His personality let him down. Maybe the party is beginning to fall to pieces around him. Maybe Kelly is the first of many.

    Another trouble he has, the situations he uses for political purposes move on. Situations changed. Perfect example if Putin. The rest of the world are no longer after him. He and the Ukraine leader seems to be working together to bring peace. In other words, he is flogging a dead horse.

    Repealing the MRRT and CEF suite of legalisation no longer of any interest to anyone. Yes, maybe no boats coming, but most are not happy with how he it was done. In fact, will , as it did with Howard, unravel around their ears. By the next election will be more of an negative than positive. Yes, and man made climate change will be back on the books. Most will find very little change in power prices. The proof of Abbott will be in the eating.

    Abbott is still waiting to go into Iraq. No one bothered answering his request to take Australians that might catch Obelo.

    He signed an agreement it appears with the Dutch and others involved not to talk about the plane that fell from the sky. Seems he, as usual not keeping to the bargain. I have a feeling, other leaders do not trust the man

  79. Anne Byam

    Florence nee fedup ……… you have made me laugh. ….. and you are far more delicate in your language than I would be. I was thinking of the absence of round spheres of delight – which I don’t think he has – but he walks like he has 16 of them to carry around !!! ……..

    There, I have said it.

    Your second comment here, ALMOST makes me feel sorry for the man. But not quite !!!!

    To do that, would be precisely to play into his hands, as he plays that card often. …. Poor me ( downcast eyes at times – the wringing of hands etc. – body language ) …. with all this international trouble, trouble at home with terrorism and the budget ( he continually refers back to whichever one suits at the time ) ….. all the while playing the dirty political game of ‘let’s con the people’ — so’s I can stay in power.

    Don’t anyone ever kid themselves ……… Abbott is a master at deception. .

  80. stephentardrew

    Anne:

    Abbott is deception in Lycra.

  81. abbienoiraude

    Dear Mr Abbott;
    I commend to you;
    Proverbs 26;11

    You don’t fool me.

    Now bugga off.

  82. Florence nee Fedup

    Anne, you are correct. I did not see it. He plays the victim I am a fool, poor me card every day. Wonder where Margie is. Why does hew not come out and say when he renounced his British citizenship/. Gillard put the details up front. I suspect he put off fixing it up in Howards’ day. To lazy. I suspect hat visit to the UK, that made no sense was to fix things up.

  83. Florence nee Fedup

    Do not forget, the man is just plain lazy We must not forget, he has bullied many, to the point of wanting them jailed., He succeed with Pauline., Nearly pulled it off with Slipper. We need to keep our fingers crossed that Thomson comes out ahead. He is a nasty vindictive man.

    Those who condemn Shorten and Labor at this time, needs to keep this fact n mind., We are not dealing with normal politics. The man also has the might of the MSM behind him. One has to keep ones nerve to beat him and come out on top.

    The focus has to remain on Abbott. Let it slip, even for a few moments, and he has won.

  84. Anne Byam

    Florence N.F.U … ( hope you don’t mind my shortening of your name there ) …

    Your comment : ” We are not dealing with normal politics. “.

    We certainly are NOT ……….. in fact, I don’t think any of us have ever seen anything like it before.

    We do have to get our heads around this ‘new’ ( ?? ) form, and out-think the idiot. A whole different ball game, and we must try our best to understand, exactly what it is.

    Keep your friends, close —– but your enemies closer.

    Australia needs to ‘understand’ ( no matter how distasteful ) the aims and mind-set of this bloke and his sycophantic offsiders.

    We can do nothing, until we do that. And if that means going into a few dark places to do so – then so be it.

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