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See. Mr Putin’s A Nice Bloke After All!

A few weeks ago, just before Mr. Trump announced his Secretary of State, I wrote a piece where I suggested that it would Rex Tillerson of Exxon-Mobil, that Trump would reverse the sanctions on Russia and that they’d form a happen business relationship. I also speculated that this may explain why Russia would want to interfere with the US Presidential elections.

Of course, whether this is a good or bad thing depends upon your politics. I’m sure that there’ll be some who argue that it’s much better that the USA and Russia form a great relationship and that they agree on things rather than being at loggerheads. And Putin and T-Rump certainly seem to be in agreement on a great many things. Take increasing nuclear weapons as an example!

And I’m sure some will argue – as Donald Trump did – that the election was rigged but there’s no need for an investigation. (Ok, when he first suggested it was rigged and that he wouldn’t necessarily accept the result that was when he thought that some Americans might rig it; now that the suggestion is that the Russians could be behind it, we need to move on!)

Hmm, weren’t there calls for Madame Clinton to go to jail because of her emails leaking somewhere or something. I can’t remember because I never actually knew what it was but Donald said that he’d jail her so she must have done something…

So, when President Obama expels Russian diplomats over their country’s alleged interference in the election, everyone knows what happens next, right? Russia gets angry and expels US diplomats for spying.

But, rather surprisingly, Vlad says that he’s not going to be petty and wishes everyone a happy new year. Gee, what a statesman. Makes one realise that all that trouble in The Ukraine must be someone else’s fault and that any sanctions for shooting down planes are just silly and clearly Mr. Abbott should apologise for shirtfronting him at the G20, which I’m sure he did because he said he would and Tony would never say one thing and do another!

Yep, let’s lift those silly sanction things and declare America open for business.

In fact, I think that should be the first thing Trump should do after his inauguration. Unless he’d rather follow Mr Turnbull’s advice and just give him a hug instead of improving his financial position.

 

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52 comments

  1. Steve Laing - makeourvoiceheard.com

    Trump’s attitude to Putin really puts Tony in a bit of a pickle, doesn’t it. A bit of a diplomatic conundrum as to whose side he is on. And Turnbull is ready to go all mushy with Trump because when you don’t have a spine it is all you can do.

    Geo-politics right now is not dissimilar to 1984. Firstly Oceania was anti-Eurasia, and pro-Eastasia, but now it seems we are pro-Eurasia and anti-Eastasia. We already know that Barnaby has form, so establishing the Ministry of Truth to appropriately rewrite Coalition history should be a doddle…

  2. helvityni

    Turnbull is also crawling to Trump; you never know if the NEW President will be willing to take in our unwanted asylum seekers, after all he’s already planning to put up fences to keep those bloody Mexicans out….

    Trump might just say that Oz is hardly over-populated…

  3. Carol Taylor

    Trump also said that he will put a moratorium on people entering the country who come from “terrorist nations” which basically means a ban on anyone who is an asylum seeker or refugee..Trump nor Dutton nor it seems Turnbull much caring which side of conflicts refugees are coming from. This puts a huge doubt on Trump honouring any deal which Turnbull might have brokered with Obama. But then again it is “Trump says…”, so anything could happen.

  4. Carol Taylor

    I should add, I doubt if Turnbull’s prime method of diplomacy – The Selfie – is going to make that much of impression with Trump.

  5. Kaye Lee

    Abbott’s idea of shirt-fronting

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/5894576-3x2-940x627.jpg

  6. crypt0

    “Putin and T-Rump certainly seem to be in agreement on a great many things”
    Sounds good …
    Let’s just hope the two great nuclear powers don’t form an unholy alliance and divide the world up between themselves …
    More than is already the case, but without interference from each other.
    For a while at least …

  7. mark delmege

    You don’t really have any idea do you Ross? Attempting to be smart doesn’t cover for a lack of understanding.
    How is the release of the autopsy report on the MH17 pilots going?
    Or Obama’s trillion dollar nuke upgrade going?
    Or the Ukraine army shelling of civilians going?
    Or the mess in Syria and Libya … should I go on?
    no problem, ah?

    Calling out stupidity is always a good idea…respectfully of course …don’t you think?

  8. Kaye Lee

    mark,

    How do you know the truth about all those things?

  9. Rossleigh

    Gee Mark, you seem to assume any criticism of Trump is a ringing endorsement of US policy for the past hundred years!

  10. Sean Stinson

    Kaye, he doesn’t. He’s a Russian spy, just like me.

  11. Jexpat

    Seeing as how the new cold war and the new McCarthyism is unlikely to abate in the near future, my hope for 2017 is that if the bombs start dropping, they stay in the Northern Hemisphere.

    Outside of Pine Gap, there’s nothing particularly strategic down here to waste any of the players’ time and money with.

  12. Roswell

    Rossleigh, I tried to read between the lines of your post before I realised it’s just a coded message. So I ran it through a few of my old programs and struck a winner with the old US WW2 Navaho code.

    So you believe there was a shooter from the grassy knoll. You know the truth about the Clinton Foundation. You know the truth about the election hacking. You know who really funds terrorist organisations.

    Mark underestimated you.

    Like you, I know the truth.

  13. rossleighbrisbane

    As the dentist told me: “The truth is out there!”
    Or was it the tooth?

  14. Roswell

    If it was a gold tooth, Rossleigh, it might be more appropriate to take the comment over to John Kelly’s post. They’re talking about gold over there.

    We’re only interested in the twooth over here.

  15. economicreform

    Mainstream Media reports on anything and everything should be routinely disbelieved. These media outlets are little more than propaganda machines for powerful vested interests. Their objective is not to inform, but rather to confuse, obfuscate and incite. One thing that is becoming increasingly obvious to me is that Trump has many enemies, within his own party as well as the opposition party and the establishment. The widespread media story of alleged hacking of the U.S. electoral process by Russians (without any evidence whatsoever — but hey, lets not allow the facts to get in the way of a good story) has been used by Trump’s political opponents – including, it seems, senator John McCain – to discredit him. Expect such dirty tricks and other attacks to continue during the next two years, which is the time-span I estimate it will take to get an impeachment motion up and running.

  16. Kaye Lee

    Sean,

    I think I have said…oh….a thousand times, that I do not think you are a Russian spy any more than I am an apologist for US interventionism.

    The question you so studiously avoid is how can you be so certain that what you read is the truth? As I have asked before, do you think the press has more freedom in Russia, Syria and Iran than they do in Europe, the UK, the US and Australia? Why are you so willing to believe one side of the story? Have you no doubts about the various accusations of conspiracies and false flags and Western propaganda? Can you be certain that the stuff you are reading isn’t the disinformation?

  17. bobrafto

    I will insert Putin’s other foot in the pic, where should I post the corrected version to?

    really some folk get real petty and point out ‘Trump would reverse the sanctions on Russia and that they’d form a happen business relationship.’

    I on the other hand, my pettiness extends to pics as well.

  18. mark delmege

    I claim the right to respond to a one sided partisan comment with a one sided partisan response. Things of course are always far more complex and I just wish we could move along. Backing a side is what I do when I go to the football but politics should be much more important.

    Kaye I don’t think Sean can read Russian or Farsi (or any of the other native languages there) and neither do I so we would be limited in our access to the press from those countries. But from what I do read I understand there is a range of opinion in those countries expressed on TV and in the press. Yet you do seem to think you know better. Even the top two people in Russia represent two quite different philosophical streams but I can’t say I have ever heard that discussed in our media.

  19. Kaye Lee

    I don’t claim to know better at all mark – I leave that to you and Sean. The Russia Today I listen to and syrianpc I read are in English – no Russian or Farsi required. And could I suggest, if you were trying to spread propaganda or disinformation, you would do it in the language of the target audience.

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2016/iran

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2016/syria

    https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom-press/2016/russia

  20. mark delmege

    you could suggest that KL but it is an ignorant comment.

  21. Kaye Lee

    How so?

  22. Michael Taylor

    Bob, was that one of the images you sent us?

  23. Michael Taylor

    Mark, can you show me where Kaye has ever said she knows better? I have heard it said by others here (I can’t remember who it was) … you assume too much.

  24. Sean Stinson

    Something about taking the log out of your own eye first probably. That and the small matter of international law, which I have continually pointed out is on Syria and its allies side. The invasion of Syria by the West for the purpose of regime change is no different and no more legal than the interventions in Libya and Iraq. You constantly accuse me of painting Putin and Assad as blameless. This is intellectually dishonest, and is the main reason I have given up responding to your repeated question. The moral fitness of either leader is not even in question. We are talking about the illegal invasion of a sovereign country. If you can’t see that this is clearly wrong then it is you who are guilty of political bias.

  25. Roswell

    This was an entertaining and amusing thread, taken in good humour as it was intended. That was until mark delmege got grumpy.

  26. mark delmege

    Why would I bother KL you would just go to some other rightwing or establishment funded or US government or British govt site to ‘fact’ check me. Then you would say how you are just asking questions because you want to know – you might even give a little ground but next time you would be citing similar sources. You don’t seem to learn that not all knowledge or understanding is held in US hands. The world is a big place and there are lots of ways of doing and looking at things. Evilness resides in all countries as does goodness. Your steering wheel is locked right and I’ve observed that scenery enough -its desolate oppressive and I’m heading in another direction.
    (is that a UFO in the background?)

  27. Kaye Lee

    Rossleigh has an amazing talent to show the irony and hypocrisy of politicians of all stripes. He is always entertaining but, in the same light, he always leaves me feeling disturbed. I greatly appreciate his unique ability even if it makes uncomfortable.

    Sean, I am not trying to be dishonest or to misrepresent you. I just wonder about your certainty at times. I ask questions. If you don’t wish to answer them, that is ok, but surely you can appreciate that I should not unquestioningly accept your word as gospel any more than you should accept mine.

  28. Kaye Lee

    “You don’t seem to learn that not all knowledge or understanding is held in US hands.”

    What a very odd thing to say. I have never, and will never, espouse any such thing.

    ” Evilness resides in all countries as does goodness.”

    Absolutely agree except you seem to think everything to do with the US is automatically evil.

    “Your steering wheel is locked right ”

    BULLSHIT. Just because I don’t immediately accept what you tell me doesn’t mean anything at all.

    And yes, I will continue to fact check. It’s what I do, and from a vast variety of sources, which is why I am far less certain than you.

  29. bobrafto

    Michael – Bob, was that one of the images you sent us?

    no but I will email you one with 2 legs.

    Happy New Year to all includes rwnutters

  30. helvityni

    Rossleigh’s blog is now turned into a Swan Stinson blog, what’s going on…
    I came here for good humour and friendly bantering, it’s a war again…

  31. wam

    oh, kaye!!!!!!! what a great picture of the rabbott IN bloody ANE. Perhaps he ghosts mark???
    As for trumputin:
    Surely, they are equal at being powerful but one is more equal than the other.

  32. Roswell

    Helvityni, the rest of us – you and I included – can enjoy and partake in the good humour and friendly bantering. Sean and mark can keep talking about the war by themselves.

    War is a terrible thing and I don’t wish to make light of the situation, but just because the world is full of injustice and wrongdoings it doesn’t mean that we cannot laugh at other things.

  33. mark delmege

    Humour is good even subtle humour. Intelligent subtle humour is even better.

  34. Kaye Lee

    And that is exactly what Rossleigh gives to us. I greatly appreciate his perspicacity and wit. And I am sorry for my contribution to the distraction.

    Pax vobiscum

  35. Michael Taylor

    I’ve been at fault too. Hotheads like me just can’t help themselves sometimes.

  36. Rossleigh

    Happy new year to one and all!

    I’m going to do the bourgeois thing and have a wine!

  37. bobrafto

    I don’t have a confession to make.

  38. Angry Old Man

    I usually enjoy Rossleigh’s satire, but this piece didn’t work for me. Probably because I’m a Russian agent. I’m not going to get into that, because I’m too old and tired, or maybe that last Grand Marnier was one too many.

    I will, however, make a suggestion. Trump might admire Putin for the qualities he thinks he sees in him, but perhaps he is only seeing what he wants to see, and certainly not Putin as he is. Putin is working for the good of his people, and that does not include world domination. Russia already has enough resources, check it out. In fact, check out Russia’s consistent foreign policy. You can go to youtube and hear what VVP says about geopolitics. You might even like some or all of it. VVP recently gave a press conference that lasted almost 4 hours, and was attended by 1400 journalists. It’s worth watching in whole or in part.

    Well, that’s several suggestions, so, sue me.

    I’d like to give a shoutout to Sean, because he gets it. And now, it’s Cognac time. May I wish all contributors and commenters a Happy New Year? And to Michael and Carol, particular best wishes for providing this excellent forum.

  39. Matters Not

    Sean Stinson, the point you make about:

    the small matter of international law – talking about the illegal invasion of a sovereign country

    is well made. Convincing, at least to this reader. To my way of understanding, Syria is/was a sovereign nation, and with a popularly elected government. Those ‘points’ should be the intellectual ‘rock’ on which all debate should ‘start’ and probably ‘conclude’, provided one agrees with the current ‘common sense’ understandings re ‘international law’, ‘sovereign nations’ ‘democracy’ and the like. Game, set and match.

    Nevertheless, assertions such as:

    . You don’t seem to learn that not all knowledge or understanding is held in US hands

    is a parody of KL’s position on all things under discussion, particularly when it’s followed by:

    The world is a big place and there are lots of ways of doing and looking at things

    which seems perfectly reasonable. And characteristic of this site. But then there’s this:

    Your steering wheel is locked right

    Really? But if we are into the business of ascribing the direction of intellectual ‘steering wheels’, then whose intellectual compass is locked into ‘paranoia’?

  40. Sean Stinson

    Matters, look again.

    Not my words mate.

  41. Matters Not

    Angry Old Man, I’ve only been to Russia once, and that was for less than a month. So that makes me an ‘expert’? Not.

    The standing joke was along the lines that: – ‘corruption’ in Russia (before Putin) permeated the whole system – top to bottom, at every level, in all corners – doing business was a nightmare – who to pay, how much and all that. Under Putin corruption at all levels was eliminated. A great advance.

    Now Putin’s made (corruption) so much simpler. It’s a one stop shop. Just pay Putin and all problems will be solved (And they do.)

    Sean Stinson, I didn’t attribute those words to you. There are other contributors to this thread as you would well know.. But I should have made that clear.

    But I have no control over the meanings people give to words or groups of same

  42. Gangey1959

    I just want to know which Koala pee’ed down who’s shirtfront in KayeLee’s pic at 1.09pm ?
    Other than that, have a happy new year everyone.
    Just remember ”The shit never alters, it’s only the depth that varies.”

  43. Jexpat

    Well, here’s the latest:

    Russia Hysteria Infects WashPost Again: False Story About Hacking U.S. Electric Grid

    https://theintercept.com/2016/12/31/russia-hysteria-infects-washpost-again-false-story-about-hacking-u-s-electric-grid/

    Unfortunately, US Democrats and their media surrogates seem oblvious to the problem that this sort of thing (amplified by histrionic twitter storms) has been causing them- for many months:

    The Russia Conundrum: How Can Democrats Avoid Getting Entangled in a Losing Issue?

  44. Kaye Lee

    Interesting discussion after that article mark,

    The ‘Ukrainian Connection’ was discussed in the Wordfence report ‘Who is Really Behind the Ukrainian Brute Force Attacks?’. The following statement was made:

    “The Russian intervention in Ukraine makes attribution of attacks even more complex. Using a Ukrainian Internet service provider gives Russia the ability to launch attacks globally with plausible deniability.

    It makes sense that disputed areas like eastern Ukraine and Syria are a hotbed of malicious activity because they provide attackers with means, motive and opportunity. Occupying forces have the means to launch their attacks by using local ISP’s. They have several motives: They want to benefit from the attack itself and also discredit local businesses or government. And they have plenty of opportunity as these regions are usually occupied for years”

  45. mark delmege

    KL everything about this looks like Obama’s weapons of mass distraction. A conspiracy of lies fed into the media wurlitzer who can be trusted to discredit Russia. It distracts from his own parties failure at the election and his failure in Syria and to sow the seeds of doubt and to wrong foot Trump and Putin forging a closer relation.
    You could start with the disclaimer on the statement he issued. Or the comment by the former head of NSA who said it was all BS and any number of other experts who have said similar.
    What intelligence agencies don’t do is reveal is their means methods and capabilities – not for decades if at all. And when they do it is for propaganda purposes.
    That the media repeat this rubbish with a straight face just demonstrates what tools they have become.

  46. Jexpat

    Mark:

    This was a readily available bit of malware (people can purchase these on the web) found on a single, unconnected laptop. Something that can is often is found on careless people’s laptops anywhere all over the world.

    It was not a “hack” of the utility grid.

    For starters….

  47. mark delmege

    presactly jex

  48. Robert G. Shaw

    @Sean,
    I’ve really got put a qualification on this “international law/invading sovereignty” idealism that you use to justify your anti US rants Sean.
    I’ve read your articles and posts for quite some time now and all I’m reading is not just a myopic account of historical events but also your impatience at each and every question that is legitimately raised concerning both your claims and your bias.
    If you’re going to use ‘invasion’ as the prima facie and principal rationale for your indignation then use it, acknowledge it for goodness sake, across the entire spectrum of international affairs. Tell readers that your disgust at the US invasions of sovereign countries is equal to your disgust, on principle, at the invasions undertaken by, for example, Russia, UK, Syria, Israel, Iraq, Pakistan, China, Vietnam, Egypt, Turkey, Jordan, France, etc.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/12/putin-warns-us-not-to-attack-syria

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-duma-treaty-syria-russian-troops-rift-with-us-assad-grows/

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/15/the-secret-pact-between-russia-and-syria-that-gives-moscow-carte-blanche/?utm_term=.79eb873c77b3

    It’s far more complex than you seem to presume. I believe you know that and yet you still try to fob off those complexities with a pedestrian reductionism that diminishes us all.
    A far more honest and mature approach would be to acknowledge the nature and expression of the dueling and insidious propaganda and explore ways in which to address it.

    Syria is, and always was, a chessboard for both the US and the Russians. I would have thought that blindingly apparent by now. Who started it, who finished it, is almost beside the point now. We need to look at all of the players and each of their geopolitical hopes.
    Calling out the US for breaking international law by “invading” Syria (I had to restrain a belly laugh at that one) is akin to handing out speeding tickets at the races.
    For example, I could make the argument that Hezbollah’s involvement in Syria, under the patronage of the Iranians and the Russians was the real turning point that made the conflict what is is today. The few hundred odd men sent by the US at the time would hardly have been a match for the tens of thousands of governemnt troops, Hezbollah fighters, Iranian guards, Russian “advisors”. If you mean to say that the US was guilty of nurturing opposition forces by money and material then yes, absolutely it was. Hardly the same as your hyperbolic appeal to “invasion” and “international law”, now is it?
    I fully appreciate your anti US bias, I share much of your concerns, and probably more. I just think that the example of Syria does your argument no favours. None whatsoever.

    Let me demonstrate the misleading or ambiguous nature of your claim on another point:
    Russia and Syria have had a mutual (defense?) agreement since 1946, ratified further in 1980, and in full swing right now. Correct? Any ‘invasion’ of Syria would mean that the invader would also be at war with Russia. Correct?
    Have I missed something? Are the US and Russia at war?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/sep/12/putin-warns-us-not-to-attack-syria

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/01/15/the-secret-pact-between-russia-and-syria-that-gives-moscow-carte-blanche/?utm_term=.79eb873c77b3

    https://sputniknews.com/middleeast/201510011027817141-Treaty-of-Friendship-Cooperation-Between-USSR-Syria-Which-Remains-in-Force/

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2012-02-05/russias-line-sand-syria

    http://www.mid.ru/en/main_en

    Can you see what I’m saying? Of course you can.

  49. Robert G. Shaw

    Again with the moderation?
    Am I doing something wrong on my end?

    Thanks,

  50. Michael Taylor

    Robert, your comment was caught in moderation because of the number of links. Spam software catches comments that have x number of links (as spammers generally have multiple links). As the software knows you’re not a spammer (because we told it so) it did the next best thing and put your comment in moderation.

    It might pay to spread them over a couple of comments to avoid it happening again.

  51. Robert G. Shaw

    Thank you Michael, shall do.

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