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If you don’t love Australia, leave

It’s time we reclaimed Australia. Because I love this country and I hate to see it being sullied by bigotry and racism. I’ve got a simple message for those people who think it’s acceptable to rally in capital cities on Easter Saturday in order to send a message about their hatred and intolerance of people who are different from them. You are not the type of Australians I want in our country. Of course I would never tell you that you must leave, and of course I wouldn’t imply that you should be forcibly removed. No, this is just advice: if you are really so angry about Australian society that you feel the need to protest against it, it’s obvious you don’t belong here. And if you’re not happy, why don’t you find somewhere else to live where you do belong?

I love Australia’s multiculturalism. As a fifth generation Australian with ancestors from England and Ireland, I know enough about the country’s history to understand that we have always been a multicultural nation. The indigenous population have, in my view, the only right to complain about the way in which this multicultural society was formed. Because they were the victims of a murderous takeover by the first settlers and this is the part of our history I am most ashamed of. However, since then, I think Australia’s done a fairly good job of being an inclusive, open, welcoming country, and I personally think it’s the best place in the world. That’s why I would prefer that racists and bigots remove themselves, voluntarily, from this great country, because its greatness is lessened by the attitudes this minority holds.

Like any great country if Australia rests on our laurels, and tolerates a vocal minority’s campaign to make other peaceful, Australia-loving minorities feel unwelcome, we have all failed our society. We have a Prime Minister currently who doesn’t value our multicultural society and all those who contribute to it, so it’s no wonder that the racists and bigots think they have permission to make their intolerance known. But don’t be tempted to follow the lead of the petty people, the leaders like Abbott who use anger and fear to make himself feel good. Don’t give in to hatred. I am not so naive to think that this wonderful Australia we live in isn’t damaged in the eyes of the world by the way our population, in the majority, treats new immigrants, particularly desperate people seeking asylum. It embarrasses me that so many Australians, living comfortable, privileged lives, would slam the door in the face of those looking for safety.

It’s almost as if some Australians resent our culture because it is exactly the stype of place that other people aspire to live. Would they prefer Australia was the type of country people wanted to get out of? Would they prefer our standard of living was a turn off? We are, on the whole, a safe, harmonious, wealthy and well educated country, with a beautiful climate and a laid back and friendly culture. I appreciate living here. One of the things I love most is that we aren’t all the same; it’s the multi in multiculturalism which makes this country interesting. I’m not just talking about a range of cultures that contribute a choice of cuisines, fashions, architecture, music, and cultural entertainment; it’s also the mix of ideas, the different perspectives and the drive all of us have to make Australia a better place. We want to make Australia better because we all love this nation. No matter if people have lived here for five generations or one, or if they’ve just arrived and they’re not planning to live here forever; we’re here because we love it. But it’s clear some of us love it more than others; why else would people feel the need to protest in the streets? So this is my message to those who don’t love living here. Don’t try to change Australia because you don’t like it. Either accept Australia for what it is, and embrace this great country, or consider leaving. Perhaps you would be happier in a country that doesn’t have Australia’s rich multicultural society, where everyone is as distrusting, arrogant, rude, judgemental, racist, small-minded and hateful as you are. Perhaps you will be better off without us, just as we would be better off without you.


120 comments

  1. Graham Parton

    On the other hand, if there is something about Australia you don’t like, you are quite welcome to discuss it and seek to have it changed.

  2. RatMatrix

    Thank you Victoria for putting voice to my feelings on this.

    What most if not all of these flag-wearing idiots don’t realise that they have been used by Brandis and Abbott as the distraction of major proportions.

    They are now distracted from the budget, what it is going to do to them and the severity thereof.

    Well done Brandis and Abbott – you’ve achieved what you set out to do.

  3. Straya

    Everyone has a right to protest even if its just to show how hate filled, bigoted and stupid they are. Telling them to leave is as bad as those who telling people to leave Australia if they don’t like whats currently happening here under this government.

  4. mark

    Dear whiney Victoria. Australia is a white country founded and built by white people. In case you havent noticed Aboriginals dont call themselves ‘Australians’ nor do they call this country ‘Australia’. Non – whites flooding into this country are not ‘Australian’ in the historically accepted definition. To claim that non – whites are Australian makes a mockery of our white ancestors – to claim that anyone can be an Australian means there is no such thing as an Australian. ‘Australian’ is not a catch-all, white Anglo Saxon and European defines ‘Australian’. ‘Australian’ isnt Chinese or African or lndian subcontinent.
    Native white Australians are just that, they are an exclusive group particular to this country – Australia. So called ‘Australians’ who are not white Europeans are never going to fit in – not completely. You can moan about this until the cows come home but its a fact. Your theoretical definition of Australians is just that – ideolised libtard dreaming based on the lie that everyone is the same – marxist propaganda commonly associated with mental illness lulz

  5. Kaye Lee

    As my daughter used to say….speak to the elbow cause the hand ain’t listening. Your ignorance speaks for itself mark

  6. Sir ScotchMistery

    At Mark, Kaye Lee says it all for me with the one addition of how pleased I am that AIMN exists so even ‘people’ like you get a voice. If I support nothing else about him, I agree with Andrew Blot that ‘people’ like you deserve the opportunity to express their views and remind us all of the merits of education.

  7. Richard Leggatt

    This a list of names of those men charged after the Eureka Stockade rebellion. And only one Australian among the lot of them! 🙂

    Timothy Hayes, Chairman of the Ballarat Reform League, from Ireland
    James McFie Campbell, a black man from Kingston, Jamaica
    Raffaello Carboni, an Italian and trusted lieutenant who was in charge of the European diggers as he spoke a few European languages. Jacob Sorenson, a Jew from Scotland
    John Manning, a Ballarat Times journalist, from Ireland
    John Phelan, a friend and business partner of Peter Lalor, from Ireland
    Thomas Dignum, born in Sydney
    John Joseph, a black American from New York City or Baltimore, United States
    James Beattie, from Ireland
    William Molloy, from Ireland
    Jan Vennick, from the Netherlands
    Michael Tuohy, from Ireland
    Henry Reid, from Ireland

    And don’t forget the Chinese!

    And we’re so proud of our National Train, “The Ghan” named after the Afghan Cameleers that helped open up the outback!

    I’m proud to be a first generation Australian, and I’m proud to be a Multiculturalist!

  8. Rosemary (@RosemaryJ36)

    Glossing over Mark’s comments (I agree wholeheartedly with Kaye’s view) I am at a loss to understand Straya’s statement. Perhaps (s)he can explain the second sentence because I am unaware of anyone telling others to leave because “they don’t like whats (sic) currently happening here under this government.” Those who would be more than happy for this government to quit are very welcome to stay and vote the government out as soon as possible.

  9. Kerri

    Thanks Victoria. Unlike others who have posted here I can recognise your level and measured argument that it is not a case “get out of me country” as much as “if you are unhappy here maybe you should move” unlike Mark who thinks birthright makes Australian citizens I have met many refugee (naturalised Australian)immigrants who have not only taken Government jobs, (some who didn’t need a job) because they were provided, but because they wanted to give back to the country that gave them shelter when they were in need.
    This current attitude of “we dont want anything different” and “you have to be just like me” is so mind numbingly ignorant and simply dense! We have always been multicultural. We have always had migrants. It is only now that the racial phobia is being legitimised by a Government equally as dense and ignorant as the Reclaim Australia movement.
    Reclaim Australia from what????
    Who is taking over our country??? A couple of mosques and it’s “oh my God we are becoming Muslims”. I saw signs from the protest saying “Ban Sharia Law” Just where is Sharia Law enacted in Australia?? Just how do these idiots think Islam is taking over??? Because 1 KFC in Melbourne wont serve bacon?? Just 1!! I checked with them. Because you get an email saying a certain shopping centre wont display Christmas decorations??? Call them! I did. And guess what? It’s all bullshit.
    “Islamaphobic and proud”??? How very sad to be frightened of a religion. Completely rational if that religion is Catholicism where priests are fed an indefinite number of children to molest.
    Wake up people you are being played for mugs!
    There is no threat to our way of life greater than Tony Abbott and George Brandis spouting their bigotry while THEY undermine your rights!! They are a far bigger threat to the Australian way of life.
    Sharia Law?? What about work until you are 70 and live on a reduced pension?
    Islam??? What about no unemployment benefits and pay to visit the doctor.
    Muslims taking over??. Muslims can try to enforce their laws but they have no power over this country!!!
    ABBOTT ALONE HAS THE POWER TO SEND THIS COUNTRY TO WAR,!!!!
    And no Imam can ever make that happen!
    Geez!!!

  10. Johnnydadda

    When Hanson appeared on the political scene, Australia should have had a conversation about these ideas and shown where they were unfounded. Instead Howard, with the help of Abbott and his slush fund http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/27/1061663855108.html, removed the One Nation threat to the LNP voter base and co-opted their policies for short term political advantage.

    Howard’s wedge politics, Labor’s complicity and Abbott’s populism have resulted in this rise in racism and xenophobia.

  11. corvus boreus

    mark(mark,mark),
    lulz spoilz trollz.

  12. Harquebus

    I think that if we “tolerate a vocal minority’s campaign to make other peaceful, Australia-loving minorities feel unwelcome” then, it is a victory.
    A: They are a minority. B: Free speech is maintained. C: Everyone went home.
    I don’t see a problem big enough to warrant suppressing resentment in minorities. Personally, I think that everyone should just toughen up.

  13. Sir ScotchMistery

    Trust Corvus to grasp the mettle.

    I may be completely off-beam here, but Mark isn’t responding so he’s probably at Cronulla enjoying a barbecue with his chums, who were at the ‘reclaim straya’ rally, yesterday.

  14. mars08

    Australia right or wrong eh?
    Isn’t that like saying “my sister, Ice user or not”?

    Of course you still feel the love, but… also… you really want them to get some help and recover ASAP….

  15. Pingback: If you don’t love Australia, leave – » The Australian Independent Media Network – Written by VICTORIA ROLLISON | winstonclose

  16. stephentardrew

    Great posts comrades.

    Tsk, tsk Mark sad lonely irrationality is so easily countered by facts but sadly for you we will not play your manipulative little game.

    Bleat on while you listen to the sound of no hands clapping with deaf eyes and fallen morality.

  17. Mark

    Nota Bene – different Mark. Not the same one who demolished that ridiculous piece of fiction alleging Abbott’s long history of blah, blah, blah.

  18. mark

    Sir bloated scotch et al.
    Despite your romantic view of early Australia multiculti paradise the reality is prior to about 25 years ago Australia was 98% white – whites now comprise about 72% of the population and shrinking fast.
    Theoretically even whites have rights – that whites as a distinct ethnic group AND surprise surprise the people who actually settled and built this country are never consulted .do they want to Australia to become a non -white country is particuarly telling. The so called democracy is obviously a sham. So, which powerful groups have been operating in the shadows bringing pressure to bear on successive Australian governments in order to open Australia up to massive non-white immigration??
    Raise your hand if you know the answer!!
    If you dont know the answer youre a dupe. If one doesnt have all the facts one cant hope to have an informed opinion.
    People who advocate policies that lead to negative outcomes for white people as a group are obviously anti- white.
    Most of those commenting here are anti-white and clueless – which makes them excellent pawns.

  19. corvus boreus

    Mark(Mark, Mark),
    I believe you.
    Even if I tend to disagree with most of your statements and viewpoints, you can at least construct and punctuate coherent sentences.

  20. frankLeeMadir

    mark, you do realise the reason for human’s skin colour don’t you? You do realise it has nothing to do with anything that you seem to be fanatical about but everything to do with relevant skin pigmentation in regards to how far from the equator you happen to live. Your posts are just silly ignorant baloney.

  21. CMMC

    Mark, the answer to your question is the Real Estate/Building Industry lobby.

    Even Richard Pratt said he wanted a larger population so he could sell more boxes.

  22. Scott

    Nationalise the RBA (that’s really a bunch of bankers from around the world taking your rates that your taxes service some of the interest on the fantasy land debt Abbott rattles on about. Do not believe it. (Since our baseless currency is borrowed into existence at a foreign decreed interest rate ).

    I AM intolerant of such behaviour that almost no politician will EVER stand against. The closest we’ve come to that is John Howard moaning after the RBA raised rates 3 weeks before the 2007 ballot and Wayne Swann said “we can’t control them”. Can’t control interest rates? That’s absurd. This is a national outrage.

  23. Bilal

    Notice how quickly the white supremacist bigotry behind this extremist rhetoric emerges. How ignorant they are is rather encouraging. It would be more worrying if they had brains and education like the SS staff who engineered the Final Solution at Wannsee. Several had PhDs apparently. This batch appear to be literacy challenged, which explains the limited world view expressed. It was also noticeable that the Reclaim Australia crowd depended heavily upon a variety of mixed ethnicity fundamentalists, which must upset the convinced white supremacists no end,
    It is sad that a threatened right-wing government has incited this sort of hatred under the banner of “national security” in order to try to stay in power, while in fact it largely depends upon the Muslim community to combat the depredations of on-line ISIS and to denounce any loons it finds.
    It is very encouraging to see so many Australians standing up to the nutters and attempting to reclaim our nation from the moronic bigots. Their declining influence is witnessed by their obvious desperation. Right wing governments of the future will understand that racism and bigotry no longer wield the political influence they once did.

  24. stuffme

    Got a bit of everything in me as well! Thank heavens it doesn’t have to be meat and 3 veg every day!

  25. corvus boreus

    stuff me,
    What’s with the three veg?
    Didn’t you read the shirt?
    Meat, beer and mis-spelled profanity is the national diet.
    This is straya!

  26. Annie B

    @ mark – Mark – maybe there’ll be a Marcus ? – whoever !

    I am not sure I would be so kind as to consider that you are not one and the same mark/Mark. Still and all ‘mark’ had a thing about caps ( among many other things ) in a previous article – to which Mark refers ??? calling it a ‘ ridiculous piece of fiction alleging Abbott’s long history of blah, blah, blah. ‘. ( have I got the quotation marks/Marks right ? ) …. Whatever the situation, obviously Mark and mark are of the same extreme right wing mantra. !

    “If one doesn’t have all the facts one cant hope to have an informed opinion.”

    May I suggest you apply that little pearl of wisdom to yourself – mark ( without a capital M ) ….

    ~~~~~~

  27. Annie B

    On another matter – I think if we are honest, we can say that there has been / is, racism in Australia – for many decades / centuries. … I have seen it ( ugh ) in my own family. … It is revolting – but –

    ….. perhaps not as revolting as the new label being attached – ( on social media, in news articles and on blogs ) … that refers to ‘white supremacy’. That is a few notches up (?) the ladder, from being a racist. Racism is at times vague e.g. ( don’t like him – he’s black ) …. ( don’t like them – they are Asian) – ( don’t like them – they are Jews ) …. or even – back in the middle of last century ” don’t associate with them ” [ Protestants or Catholics ] depending on which foot you kicked with … ” because they are no good and will corrupt you ” ( said to me as a school girl by a family member ). Decidedly, a form of racism.

    White supremacy is something else altogether. … It is the basis of mongrel factions like the KKK – which apparently is alive and well and living here in Australia too ( thanks to southern yanks ) and Nazi-ism … now neo-nazi-ism – and other clod-hopping bastards that wave a flag that says ‘white is best – white is supreme ‘ – to all and sundry.

    ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~

    Nothing whatsoever, has to do with the colour of skin – F F S !

    Let’s throw the cat among the pidgeons eh ? ….

    Take the Dutch, or the Danes for example ! … Really nice people for the most part – and most all of them white – meaning caucasian – or European if you like. … They do things over in those countries, that most Australians ( to date ) would be horrified about, but we don’t label them ‘white bastards’ because of these acts. Am NOT going to give examples here – but I am sure if anyone wants to pursue it – just Google ‘ atrocities ‘ against the name of a country, any country – that’ll do it.

    Now – let’s all colour the European country of choice, black or brown – in our mind, or give them Asian eyes and faces, or the broad spread of facial features of the Australian Aborigine – whether full or half blood, or maybe the look of an American Indian.

    Would that make a difference – do ya think ? …. Personally, I think it would. … **** Some of us forget that every culture has differences – of mores, beliefs, ways of life, dress, eating habits, religions – to every other culture. No matter who they are, what their colour skin is, or where they originate from.

    **** We must never let that become ‘many of us’ ….

    Just a few thoughts – to chew on, if any reader is so disposed. !!!

  28. Roswell

    A well-articulated piece, Victoria. What a pity that we have a racist attracted to it.

  29. Phi

    Interesting thoughts Victoria and I have no argument with you. I think the picture that heads the article might well be the very same ‘mark’ character who posted his profound opinions here!

  30. Peter

    Victoria, your assumptions are quite ridiculous.
    Where do you get this notion of ‘a minority of Australians think this way’?
    On what census do you base these bold statements?
    Multiculturalism is indeed a blessing under most circumstances.
    Every culture has their good and bad, yet only one ideology globally has historically shown, and continues to show that it is utterly and completely intolerant of all other cultures, and that ideology is islam, whether or not you find that proven fact palatable or not.
    Many countries are currently providing evidence to support this statement, France, Sweden, Germany, the UK etc.
    Also, how is it possible to be ‘racist’ against an ideology?
    What ‘race’ is islam?
    In case you require clarification, islam is a ‘whole of life’ ideology.
    It encompasses religious, political, social, legal and financial aspects of the lives of adherents.
    It is also impossible to be bigoted against an ideology.
    Adherents are forced to obey every tenet of islam, because if they don’t they are in danger of hellfire, and if they try to leave this fascist ideology, they will be killed. The qur’an says so.
    I read only 2 days ago that currently, the best selling book in the Middle East apart from the qur’an, is ‘Mein Kampf’ by Adolf Hitler.
    This is the only ideology in the world that is totally, utterly and completely anathema to all others.
    It is the only one which still demands the subjugation of women and all non muslims.
    The word islam means ‘submission’.
    It is the only one which still demands the death penalty for gays and lesbians, and if you stupidly try to refer to Leviticus in response, please learn the meaning of the term ‘abrogation’, because it is equally important in both islam and Christianity.
    islam is the only ideology which has been directly responsible for over 24,000 acts of recorded and verified violence directly in its name, just since the attacks of September 11 2001.
    Please quote, with evidence if you can, even half that number of instances of violence from any other ideology.
    I find it utterly incomprehensible that like so many on the left of politics, you are so rabid to be seen to be ‘tolerant’, you will tolerate islam’s total hypocrisy in the areas of women’s rights, homosexual rights and human rights, just to appear as though you are a ‘nice’ person!
    I have no problem with anyone who genuinely wants to call Australia home, because we are a great nation, and we do accept all who want to come here to find a new and welcoming home, but when those people become a threat to the lifestyle, peace and welcoming nature of the country we love, that issue needs to be decisively dealt with.
    We are about to commemorate ANZAC Day, where we remember the sacrifices of our forefathers to maintain our freedom and lifestyle.
    islam is the largest threat to our freedom and lifestyle we have ever known, because it is working insidiously from within, to change everything about Australia and make us into an islamic nation, just as has happened, and is happening in many nations globally.
    Just because the lamestream media refuses to report it and masks islamic violence in euphemistic, politically correct language doesn’t mean it’s not happening.
    I am 4th generation Australian.
    Not indigenous, and for that I feel a measure of genuine sorrow and remorse, but I have no control over history.
    I will not be leaving my homeland to cater for the evil and selfish intentions of any ideology which seeks to usurp our nation, whether you or anyone else think I should.
    Period.

  31. Stef

    Please support peoples right to protest however Ridiculous you think their views are . Freedom ain’t free.

  32. Bilal

    Martin Luther advocated an eight-point plan to get rid of the Jews either by religious conversion or by expulsion. Substitute “Muslim” for “Jew” and you get an idea of what is happening in Abbott’s Australia:

    1. “First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. , ”
    2. “Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. , ”
    3. “Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. , ”
    4. “Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. , ”
    5. “Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. , ”
    6. “Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them. , Such money should now be used in , the following [way], Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed [a certain amount], ”
    7. “Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.”
    8. “If we wish to wash our hands of the Jews’ blasphemy and not share in their guilt, we have to part company with them. They must be driven from our country” and “we must drive them out like mad dogs.”

    Luther, On the Jews, 47:268-288, 292.

    http://encycl.opentopia.com/term/Martin_Luther_and_the_Jews

    Those ideas lived on in Adolf Hitler who said
    “We are a people of different religions, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls… We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity … in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. “
    Speech in Passau 27 October 1928 Bundesarchiv Berlin-Zehlendorf; from Richard Steigmann-Gall (2003). Holy Reich: Nazi conceptions of Christianity, 1919-1945.

  33. Gilly

    Terrorist Tony strikes again.

  34. Anomander

    Never trust anyone who shrouds themselves in a flag.

  35. James Cook

    I had an operation in Sydney late last year. The surgeon was of Vietnamese descent, the anaesthetist of Chinese, many of the nursing staff were Asian. They were all fantastic and give a lie to the idea that Asians can “never fit in”. I am thankful to them (and the “aussies”) for their skills and friendliness. Their contribution to our society (and my health) is incalculable. Oh…and my GP is of Indian descent. I trust and admire them all even though I’m a 4th generation white, anglo-saxon “aussie”.

  36. Anomander

    I can’t believe how myopic these idiots are.

    If you want something to worry about, the greatest threat facing our nation is not Islamisation, it is the Corporatisation of our society:

    – our government being wholly owned by big business and acting solely for their benefit
    – our publicly owned assets being sold-off into private hands
    – our essential services being slashed and privatised
    – people thrown out of work so business can bring-in cheap foreign workers
    – our rights and freedoms being eroded away by the day
    – our news and information being tightly controlled to deliver a message of fear
    – relentless corporate attacks on our wages and entitlements
    – our children being denied access to affordable education
    – our healthcare being made unaffordable
    – our land, water and air being polluted by foreign mining companies
    – our democracy undermined by those with the deepest pockets who make use of our resources but avoid paying their fair share of tax.

    There’s a MUCH bigger threat here that is lost on those too stupid to see, because they’re too interested in haranguing some innocent bloke with a beard and his wife who wears a headscarf – both of whom just want to work, live peacefully and enjoy the freedoms this country offers.

    And stop using OUR FLAG to promote your ignorant, racist views.

  37. Ray Miller

    Well said Peter (April 5 10:15). Refreshing to hear someone addressing the cause rather than attacking the individual. It would seem that many people from both sides of politics in Australia are blinded by their self righteous causes, to ignore open debate. Across the world there is a disproportionate attack on world peace created by one religion. That religion must be criticised, and that religion must address their inherent problems. To ignore such threats to world peace is absurd. It’s your guess which religion!

  38. CMMC

    There must be more conspiracy nuts studying the Koran than actual Muslims.

  39. Dagney J Taggart

    So Victoria, what would you say to those who march with signs calling for the death of those who “insult” their religion? To those who believe that law and religion should (must) be one and the same? Do those types have any place in a civil multicultural multi religious society?

  40. Julie

    Religion, colour of skin, race, sex, footy team….none it matters in the end it is your ability to say with hand on heart i love this country, its freedoms (including speech – yes we have to let morons speak occasionally) i will protect and nurture it, i will defend all who live on it, i will learn from history and right wrongs and most importantly i will use my right and free choice to vote for who i want (technically i have to…its an offence not too) and follow the laws of this land….but most importantly from an ‘Australian’ born of British, 6th generation, came in chains heritage and teacher of children – the future of our country – tolerance and acceptance keeps us human, be the best you can be but always stand up to bullies, because really in the end our ‘identity’ the spirit associated best with whom we are…the ANZACS was about mates standing together as one when terrified (coincidently many of the ‘Australian ANZACS were from lots of different cultures, including Indigenous Australians) …. To live happily, to live ‘free’, to live without judgement of others, to live with compassion, to live without violence….these are the things that i want all children in the end to believe is what matters in this country. Don’t you all think so too?

  41. Skeet

    “Anomander says

    Never trust anyone who shrouds themselves in a flag.”

    I agree. It is a reliable warning sign.

    Though it does make it a damn sight easier to spot them, and keep your distance.

  42. Pissed off Infidel

    How can I, who also attended the reclaim Australia rally be called racist when Islam is not a race, I welcome all who want to come to this wonderful country, the only thing I ask is that they must accept our culture,law and all other religions in Australia but what I have seen happen is moslems come to Australia and demand they have their own law which is sharia law. They have sharia law in Australia in the form of halal tax on just about everything you buy in the shops from chocolate to sex toys, and they are pushing to have the containers that hold the products to be halal and they are pushing for the transport of halal products to be halal aproved which everything halal has a tax on it. The fee’s are payed to a halal certifier who hides where the money goes but it is a religeous organization so no tax however millions are sent over to moslem countries under charities names, but they wont prove it.
    The halal fees are then passed on to consumers as some fees amount to over $100,000 so we pay that on our food costs, you might think it wont hurt me but if the government put a new tax on food which in a year amounted to nearly $1000.00 to your food shopping you would cry out to the government, saying you tax the poor! Well guess what this has happened by the Moslems but most people say thats ok, well I say that is not ok, do your research, try walking/driving in Locemba in Sydney and see how well you are welcome in that area, dress like a normal Aussie and see if you can!
    Meat killed halal is barbaric to say the least and I grew up on a farm killing our own meat and all I can say is we were more caring to our animals the way we killed them. The livestock for halal slaughter come from farmers all over Australia but the push by halal certifiers for the farmer to become halal certified is very real, the grain producer must be certified for the cows to eat certified grain.
    Where does it end and all costs to the consumer, that is just the start, if there must be halal foods how come most items in the shops dont display the halal symbal for the moslems to buy halal? It shows to me it is a rort and people buy into it because they are told what people want them to know, all this for 2% of the population and exports are only 8% to moslem countries and 92% non moslem go figure!
    According to statistics about 80% of moslems in Australia are on centrelink payments so how can they be contributing to Australia other than draining it but they still have a bigger voice than the majority of tax payers plus the number of them that have upto 4 wives, come on that is ilegal in Australia all I want is for no religous minority to change anything in Australia, just consider that religion and government are separate but for moslem people, islam is government,law,human rights and religion rolled into 1, how can I be racist against an ideoligy? Please people before you call me a racist bigot do your own research including reading the Quran to see what is happening in Australia is what Islam tells moslems to do, however not all moslems want the evil of islam in Australia however they will not speakout against it as they are scared of the devout moslems. At the rallies across Australia there were people from all walks of life including coptic christians from these moslem countries, listen to them and tell me ISLAM IS THE RELIGION OF PEACE!

  43. Bilal

    Information on halal slaughter and certification here:
    http://www.amust.com.au/2015/03/what-is-halal-and-how-does-its-certification-work/

    Avoid bigoted disinformation.
    The Quran states:
    Surah Yunus 10 Ayah 99
    If it had been your Lord’s Will, they would all have believed, all who are on earth! Will you then compel humankind, against its will, to believe!

    Surah 2 Baqarah Ayah 256
    Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: Whoever rejects Tagut [forces of Satan] and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.

  44. Jexpat

    Pissed off Infidel:

    More “semantically sensitive” folks would have used to term “bigot,” which encompasses a broader range of ignorance, fear and loathing of the other.

  45. mars08

    Ignorant, frightened, knuckle-dragging dickheads… all of them.

    Unfortunately on of the less-subtle subtexts of the 2015 ANZAC commemoration events is…. unless you had a relative who fought in the First World… you are something less than a TRUE Aussie. Sadly some fools are taking this message far too seriously.

  46. Kaye Lee

    Pissed off infidel,

    I would be pissed off with whoever is feeding you that bullshit if I was you

    “According to statistics about 80% of moslems in Australia are on centrelink payments”

    And then there is the truth

    “The unemployment rate of 13.4 per cent for Muslims was much higher than the Australian unemployment rate of 5.2 per cent indicating significant labour market disadvantage.”

    There was an extensive paper written about it in 2011 which identified the many barriers to employment faced by Muslims – discrimination, language, trauma, caring for children and older family members etc. You may be interested in facts rather than the hysterical rantings of bigots (who all repeat the same lines I might add which makes you lose credibility – you do no checking for yourselves from other sources obviously)

    https://www.dss.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/01_2014/muslim-jobseekers.pdf

    What is the source for your claim of 80%?

  47. Dagney J. Taggart

    Bilal, that site doesn’t seem to provide any information on halal slaughter, which I beleive is not as humane as other methods.

  48. Kaye Lee

    From the above link…

    “The Muslim population has higher educational attainment than the Australian population as a whole. At the 2006 Census, 18.5 per cent of Muslims had a bachelor degree or higher compared to only 15.6 per cent for the total population (DIAC, 2007a). Similarly, 27.5 per cent of the Muslim population had a year 12 or equivalent qualification compared to 17.8 per cent for the entire population. Less Muslims had a Certificate 3 or 4 qualifications (7.2 per
    cent compared to 13.9 per cent for the Australian population. Those with less than a Year 12 education comprised 31 per cent of the Australian population but only 26.1 per cent of the Muslim population.”

    I would be interested to see the same statistics for Reclaim Australia

  49. Dagney J. Taggart

    Kaye, not all Centrelink payments are unemployment benefits. PoI is not clear whether the 80% is restricted to unemployment or whether it includes all other categories as well. A specific group with a higher unemployment rate may well have a higher incidence of welfare relate payments. Don’t know. Something to google on a rainy afternoon……

  50. Kaye Lee

    In Australia, the national standard for meat production requires that all animals must be effectively stunned (unconscious) prior to slaughter. The vast majority of halal slaughter in Australia (including at export abattoirs) complies with this standard, that is, all animals are stunned prior to slaughter. The only difference is that a reversible stunning method is used, while conventional humane slaughter may use an irreversible stunning method. The time to regain consciousness following a reversible stun may vary depending on the intensity of the stun. At Australian abattoirs, the aim is to ensure that reversible stunning is done in a way that depth of unconsciousness is sufficient to allow for the animal to bleed out and die before there is a chance of regaining consciousness.

    Halal slaughter in overseas abattoirs often does not include stunning – this is the key difference between halal slaughter in Australia and many other countries.

    http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-is-halal-slaughter-in-Australia_116.html

  51. Jexpat

    Kaye Lee wrote: “I would be interested to see the same statistics for Reclaim Australia.”

    My bet is that the statistics would be markedly skewed toward the same level of educational attainment as Pauline Hanson managed.

    Having said that, a far wiser person than I has noted that there is a certain, rather astonishing fraction of stupid people to be found on all levels of educational attainment.

  52. Richard Leggatt

    Thanks for that last piece Kaye, taught me something I didn’t know and also emphasises how we can work together to find solutions that fit particular sensibilities. Life is never black and white ( although some would prefer it was just white! Morons! ) The subtlety in the differences in slaughter can be applied across a wide range of human activity as long as we apply thought and intelligence! Like a lot of Australians, I am not a vegetarian, but that doesn’t mean I don’t care how we treat our livestock. I want animals killed humanely, and we should, as a mass exporter, be insisting on humane slaughter everywhere. And if my religion demanded halal food, as an Australian, and if the market exists, I see no problem, as long as it’s within the law. It’s just part of the production and marketing process, just like gluten free, or vegetarian products. Of course, the legitimacy of the certification process should be regulated and it should be against the law to use the proceeds to support our enemies, and guess what? It is!
    And if I find that all those gluten free products profits are being used to promote Christianity in Israel I’m gunna be pretty upset!

  53. Lord Stockton

    I note Victoria you don’t actually use the word islam or muslim. Yet that is the group who are the cause of so much trouble these days.

    So do you have a problem with Sheikh Muhammad Tasawar marrying a 12 year old girl to a 26 yr old man knowing full well this child would (was) raped & fell pregnant. Is that your idea of celebrating cultural differences? True her father thinks the laws against child rape are silly. Do you. The 2 court cases were reported last week.

  54. Florence nee Fedup

    No law to say. one has to buy meat, killed according Halal customs.

    Not all killed this way. Competition would keep prices in check.

    I am sure, those who buy the accreditation have done the sums. Would not be paying, if was not economical.

  55. Mark

    Good point Lord. Not many of the posters on this site know much about Islamic doctrine, the life of Mohammed or the bloody history of Islam. I would add that a good deal of them don’t want to know. History does not sit well with the left in general. They are utopians who believe they can change the world for the better, history is surplus to their needs and sometimes an impediment to their aims.

  56. Carol Taylor

    Mark @11.05am. I got it, you’re a satirist doing a spoof on a ‘typical’ racist yobbo. Your imput gave me a few seconds of outrage (racism plus errors of fact), but then due to the aforementioned, I thought, “No way, not possible for anyone to be that stupid. Therefore it must be satire”.

    My ancestors arrived in the mid 1800s, and EVERYONE was white, apart from the Chinese, African-Americans (California Gully), Indians and I believe some from Japan and the Philippines. Multiculturalism goldfields 1850’s informal census.

  57. corvus boreus

    Question; is this the site of the organisers of the ‘reclaim Australia’ rallies?

    http://www.reclaimaustralia.net/

    If it is, they seem to be a little bit religiously rabid(ie fundo-loopy) to sit comfortably as stalwart defenders against the perceived wish of some militant Muslims to impose religious laws upon our secular society(eg “all law is biblical”).

  58. Roswell

    Carol, you were a bit kind on mark. He is no satirist. He’s an idiot.

  59. Annie B

    @Julie ( comment – at 9:21 am )

    A breath of fresh air – to read your positive thoughts for us all – especially children / future children.

    Sadly, while there is greed, power-brokers, religions all fighting one another ( Christians do it all the time, claiming a church has all the ‘truth’ – while the others haven’t etc. ) … and while there is lying and fear mongering at the top end of Canberra …. these things will not come to pass in our country.

    But we can all try and make strides ( baby steps even ) to see that it begins to go along a positive, pro-activ path again.

    Because right now, we are in the deepest muck we’ve been in for a long time … we ( Australians ) need to start being more optimistic, constructive and helpful, about many things.

    ~ ~ ~ ~

    Some very interesting information on these posts too ….

  60. Annie B

    @ Pissed off Infidel.

    I think several people have asked for proof or confirmation by links, sources etc. to your claims in your post .. ( 11:52 am ).

    I would like as much information / proof about ALL your claims that you can possibly provide.

    Thanking you in anticipation ….

  61. Al-Veteran Journalist

    This is an awesome piece of writing that expresses my sentiments. I’m an Italian-Dutch immigrant who loves this country and chooses to be Australian every day. Mark and people like him are substandard humans who should do two things: Accept the INVITATION to leave – and have themselves chemically castrated so as not to purpetuate such low intelligence into the future gene pool. This not about Islam, Mark. This about ANY belief, skin colour etc. What a dickhead!

  62. Bilal

    All Abrahamic religions forbid the consumption of blood. Even Christians who follow the First Council of Jerusalem would obey this tradition.The followers of Jesus according to the First Council of Jerusalem, presided over by James the Righteous, the brother of Jesus and the leader of the assembly of the Gospel in Jerusalem for 30 years after the end of Jesus’ mission, agreed to a basic law. Acts of the Apostles, verses 28-29 records: “It has been decided by the Holy Spirit and by ourselves not to impose on you any burden beyond these essentials: you are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from illicit marriages.” James, an observant Jew who strictly obeyed Torah, assumed that all understood that abstention from blood assumed the draining of blood from the animal consumed and that forbidden animals such as swine, would be avoided.

    Wikipedia gives a good outline of the methods of slaughter which accords with the prophetic tradition. If the animal suffers, the meat cannot be consumed. In Australia all halal slaughter involves stunning, as far as I have been able to establish.

    Slaughter
    Shechita is the ritual slaughter of mammals and birds according to Jewish law. Dhabiha is the method used to slaughter an animal as per Islamic tradition. Shechita requires that an animal be conscious and this is taken to mean the modern practice of electrical, gas, or percussive stunning before slaughter is forbidden. Most Muslim authorities also forbid the use of electrical, gas, or percussive stunning.[citation needed] However, other authorities state that stunning is permissible so long as it is not the direct cause of the animal’s death.[13]

    Similarities
    • Both shechita and dhabiha involve cutting across the neck of the animal with a non-serrated blade in one clean attempt in order to sever the main blood vessels.[1][14]
    • Both require draining the blood of the animal.[14][15]
    • Any sane adult Jew who knows the proper technique may perform shechita.[16] Similarly, dhabiha can be performed by any “sane adult Muslim… by following the rules prescribed by Shariah”.[17] All Islamic authorities, though, state that dhabiha can also be performed by Peoples of the Book-(Jews and Nazarenes).[14]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Islamic_and_Jewish_dietary_laws

  63. Peter

    Bilal, oyou know extremely well that the quotes you have offered are from the earlier texts of muhammed, which were more peaceful by necessity, as he then led a small band of muslims with little political influence.
    Under the islamic law of abrogation, the later texts of muhammed are considered to be more authoritative by all islamic ‘scholars’.
    These later texts espouse absolute force to either have infidels converted to islam, forced to pay the jizyah tax in order to be allowed to live under islamic rule with zero rights, or killed.
    You know this to be true, so you are obviously speaking taquiyya, deliberately lying to infidels to further the cause of islam.
    As for the implications of islamic unemployment mentioned by another apologist here, there are a great many islamic teachers who will tell muslims to take our welfare payments and consider them to be us paying muslims their jizyah tax, as islam teaches that it already rules Australia, all that remains is the practical fulfilment of the fact. Islam teaches that wherever a muslim places his feet, allah will give him that land.
    Seriously, there are so many loony lefties commenting here absolutely bereft of thought, research and coherent arguments, it’s a wonder they can tie their shoe laces!

  64. Mark

    Al-Veteran Journalist, read your last post then ask yourself if you think you have raised the level of this debate. Bilal, I’ll get to you with a lengthier response at another time. Peter is right. We know about the Mecca and Medina verses and it does appear that you are practising taqiyya. Please don’t tell me that that is a Shia term and you’re Sunni so you don’t try to deceive the infidel. As you seem to be koranically knowledgeable you might care to tell the people how Mohammed is regarded as the ideal man and it is every Moslem male’s duty to strive to emulate him. Feel free to quote from the sunna and hadiths. One thing I will say. I don’t believe that all Moslems are religious fanatics, amongst 1.6 billion there would be the whole spectrum from those who don’t care to the full blown fundamentalists who follow the teachings of Islam to the letter. You might also take the time to inform the readers here what the punishment for apostates is in countries governed by sharia law.

  65. Roswell

    Mark, you are what I’d refer to as the ‘ugly Australian’. As a person who wasn’t born in this country, I can clearly say that it is people like you that are a stain on it.

    To save you asking, I was born in America.

  66. Peter

    Roswell, it is clear you either cannot understand coherent arguments,or you choose not to.
    Therefore simple-minded generalised denigration of those you disagree with is indicative of a lack of integrity on your part.
    If you wish to refute someone’s argument, do so clearly, and ensure you have done your research, rather than relying on simpleton name-calling.

  67. Bilal

    Why do anti-Muslim bigots feel it is imperative to lie? It is hard to discuss issues with bigots as they deny anything that does not fit their prejudiced world view. This abrogation furphy used by professional Islamophobic preachers and even the last Pope along with Mecca and Medinah contrasts is rubbish. Read what these scholars wrote to His Holiness.

    Open Letter to His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI by 38 Leading Muslim Scholars and Leaders
    In an unprecedented move, an open letter signed by 38 leading Muslim religious scholars and leaders around the world was sent to Pope Benedict XVI on Oct. 12, 2006. The letter, which is the outcome of a joint effort, was signed by top religious authorities such as Shaykh Ali Jumu‘ah (the Grand Mufti of Egypt), Shakyh Abdullah bin Bayyah (former Vice President of Mauritania, and leading religious scholar), and Shaykh Sa‘id Ramadan Al-Buti (from Syria), in addition to the Grand Muftis of Russia, Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo, Slovenia, Istanbul, Uzbekistan, and Oman, as well as leading figures from the Shi‘a community such as Ayatollah Muhammad Ali Taskhiri of Iran. The letter was also signed by HRH Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad bin Talal of Jordan and by Muslim scholars in the West such as Shaykh Hamza Yusuf from California, Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr of George Washington University in Washington, D.C., and Professor Tim Winter of the University of Cambridge.
    All the eight schools of thought and jurisprudence in Islam are represented by the signatories, including a woman scholar. In this respect the letter is unique in the history of interfaith relations.

    Letter extract below:

    “There is no Compulsion in Religion
    You mention that “according to the experts” the verse which begins, There is no compulsion in religion (al-Baqarah) is from the early period when the Prophet “was still powerless and under threat,” but this is incorrect. In fact this verse is acknowledged to belong to the period of Quranic revelation corresponding to the political and military ascendance of the young Muslim community. There is no compulsion in religion was not a command to Muslims to remain steadfast in the face of the desire of their oppressors to force them to renounce their faith, but was a reminder to Muslims themselves, once they had attained power, that they could not force another’s heart to believe. There is no compulsion in religion addresses those in a position of strength, not weakness. The earliest commentaries on the Qur’an (such as that ofAl-Tabari) make it clear that someMuslims ofMedina wanted to force their children to convert from Judaism or Christianity to Islam, and this verse was precisely an answer to them not to try to force their children to convert to Islam.Moroever,Muslims are also guided by such verses as Say: The truth is from your Lord; so whosoever will, let him believe, and whosoever will, let him disbelieve. (al-Kahf); and Say: O disbelievers! I worship not that which ye worship; Nor worship ye that which I worship. And I shall not worship that which ye worship. Nor will ye worship that which I worship. Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion (al-Kafirun:).”

  68. Annie B

    Some extremely fascinating information here – to be further researched by those who are of a mind to do so.

    I am one of them – but that doesn’t matter. …. I will do it, when I can. …. Then again, I might decide to remain totally ignorant of the Q’ran, Sharia law, Dhabiha and all the other laws relating to any religion….

    Been there done that ( Christian Bible, Zen Buddhism and Judaism ) – might need a break from 45+ years of it. !!!

    Interesting that the Jehovah’s Witnesses proclaim that it is sinful to ‘ingest ‘ ( take into the body ) blood in any form … ( from the Bible – book, chapter and verse not yet researched again ) ….

    A few years back now, a young boy was allowed to die ( a big uproar on TV newcasts ) – when life-saving blood transfusions could have had him live on in good health – but his parents – ( avid Jehovahs’ Witnesses ) … declined the option and fought the doctors tooth and nail, over it all. …

    The boy died. … And all this was based on a notion from ancient Bible verses, that no blood ever be ingested in any way.

    Back in Biblical days, there was no way of ‘ extracting ‘ blood, let alone being able to inject / transfuse blood into another person. … But that apparently didn’t matter ?? … I did say ( at the front door that day ) that I thought they were being misled, by ancient scripture not applicable to modern capabilities in medicine – and that they should perhaps realise that the Bible was written in years that were barbaric, and uninformed. … That met with angry stares, but also an invitation to ‘discuss’ the matter in more length. … I bid them a fine good-day politely, and quietly shut the door. … There was no aggression.

    Just thought I’d throw that info. in for good measure. … Professed Christians also have some strange connotations from religious law.

  69. Peter

    Bilal, just because muslims relating taquiyya to a sitting pope can be recorded, doesn’t mean their statements are genuine, especially when taken under the microscope of what is stated in the qur’an and hadiths, which is totally contrary to your claims.
    I say again, you are spreading taquiyya, and I am not a bigot because islam is not a religion, but a whole of life ideology.
    Stop claiming it is anything else and you may rescue a modicum of your integrity.

  70. Annie B

    To Corvus Boreus – – –

    The link you had found was definitely woopsy-doozy fanatical, religious and seemed to promote vegetarian with some herbs and spices – alternative meds etc. … thrown in for good measure. ( – – there is nothing wrong with vegetarian – I love it, but am not exclusive to it ).

    Admittedly, very confusing – I had to travel a bit through Google to find the correct site – which doesn’t say much at all really. …. It is a site currently under construction it would appear. … however, it is relative to the rallies and protests, that had been conducted in most major cities last weekend.

    http://www.reclaim-australia.com/ … they give only their objectives, which are most definitely anti-Muslim.

    The difference in URL was a little hyphen. … Good grief. …. Reminds me to be careful when rummaging around on the Internet. … Personally, I need reminding of that at least once a week, especially when grabbing hold of some info. on the AIM Network, and running with it.

    Not to mention, some sites can hold a myriad of nasties ( malware and spyware ) … to boot. Just gotta be careful. 😉

  71. Matters Not

    Peter April 6, 2015 at 9:20 pm said:

    islam is not a religion, but a whole of life ideology.

    Right. Given Peter’s ‘logic’ a ‘religion’ should never be a ‘whole life’ ideology. Apparently ‘religion’ should be apart from life.

    I think he has a valid point here.

    But I am tempted to ask ‘please explain’?

  72. corvus boreus

    Peter,
    Bigotry is a generic term for prejudice against difference, and can apply to race, gender, culture, religion, or even ideology.

    Annie B,
    Cheers for clarifying. Another poster provided the link to the non-hyphenated site, and I did wonder that no mention was made of the anti-islamic rallies.

  73. mars08

    Bilal… some advice for you… “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

    Peter is a stooge, a chronic numpty, an imbecile and a hater. That’s all he will ever be. Please don’t waste any more time or energy on him.

    His opinions have less substance than the steam from my piss splashing on cold steel.

  74. Mark

    What has Peter said that marks him as an idiot? Your post is entirely ad hominem insults, no substance. Is that not the mark of an idiot?

  75. Peter

    Mars, state your reasons why you consider me thus, or shut up.
    If you cannot logically refute my arguments with reason and research, your pathetic and childish insults are meaningless.

  76. mars08

    @Bilal… see what I mean? A stooge, a chronic numpty…. and shameless.

  77. Zathras

    This is just a re-run of what Pauline Hanson was trying to stir up about the “Asian menace” back in 1996.

    Change the target to Muslims and change the spokeswoman to Jaqui Lambie and it’s pretty much the same old story.

    Back then we also witnessed “useful idiots” pretending to be flagpoles by wearing flags as capes and spouting ignorance and hatred.

    Racial intolerance and xenophobia is part of our culture. I’m hoping that the next generation will be more resistant to this sort of ill-informed hysteria.

  78. Peter

    Ah, the loony left…speech must be free….but only if you agree with the left!
    Otherwise you must be a fascist, a racist, a hater, a numpty or a stooge…or all of the above, but make sure to never ever enter into a logical debate with anyone outside of the left, just call them incessant names like this and hope they go away.
    Happy trolling mars08, must be lots of pretty flowers in la la land where you live.

  79. corvus boreus

    Peter,
    Intolerance of differences of opinion is not restricted to the ‘left side’ of socio-political viewpoints. Members of the ‘rabid right’ can froth against dissenting opinion just as hard(if not harder) than those of the ‘loopy left’, even as both regurgitate Voltaire’s cliched quotation regarding the defense of free speech.
    As a person who cherishes a secular society based upon scientific rationality, I will not take any kind of stand to support the extremists of fundamentalist Islam who demand any legal preference/exemption/exclusion, but neither will I stand with those who rally to ‘defend’ our ‘Christian society’, and I would be deeply ashamed to attend any rally prominently featuring people with swastikas tattooed on their skulls.

  80. Annie B

    Corvus B…. – ref. your latest comment.

    I could not agree more with you, if I tried.

    I have personal experience of the ‘rabid right’ … to the degree that I was actually ‘ordered’ ( by an older cousin ) to ‘remember what side we’ve always been on’ ??? … and to ” not vote Liberal is a slap in the face of our family values and political beliefs.” …. Yes – beliefs !!! …. She presumed I was a ‘Laborite’ … but she was wrong … I vote the way I see fit on election day – – and had said so. . ( although never Liberals now )

    I politely at the time ( much to my own chagrin ) … avoided the subject – skirted the issue. … It was only after I had hung up the phone that I felt the intrusion – ( how dare she ) …. and the anger at this extreme dictatorial stance taken by someone, just a little older than me.

    ” Being anything but a Liberal is a disgrace to our family ( and traditions ) ” …. Ye Gods. … So much for the right wing !!! … Just goes to show huh ?

    I agree also Corvus, with your thoughts and feelings relayed in your last paragraph here.

    Cheers ….

  81. Peter

    corvus boreus April 7, 2015 at 6:58 pm, I would be interested to see the photos of these so-called “people with swastikas tattooed on their skulls’, as I dare say if there were any at any of the rallies, they would be in the minority, and certainly not endorsed by anyone from Reclaim Australia.
    For your information, I subscribe neither to the extreme left, nor the extreme right of politics.
    There is good and bad in both ‘sides’, and our political system is sorely overdue for a complete overhaul, however that is another matter.
    If you care to look at all my posts above, I think you will see that I have stuck to the issues at hand, ‘playing the ball, not the man’ so to speak, while others above (not all but most), have taken delight in personal attacks. See in particular mars08 for example.
    I take no delight in the issue under discussion here.
    I would much rather see all immigrants to our great country treated well and treating us well.
    Sadly, that is not the case with islam.
    Please see what I have written above, I don’t like repeating myself ad nauseum.

  82. corvus boreus

    Peter,
    I neither have nor would accuse you of any (unprovoked) ad-hominem attacks on this thread(although you did chuck a few general disparagements [eg. loony lefties] into the mix).
    I have seen numerous photos of different people with nazi insignia on their skin in photos of the rallies. I assume they were not part of the counter-rabble who turned an unsavoury demonstration into a violent fracas. Forgive me(or not) if I do not assemble a montage tonight as I am also juggling post/pre work admin obligations.

  83. Peter

    Interesting though that the ‘counter rabble’ of which you speak appear to be from the extreme left, as reported in the lame stream media.
    Socialist Alliance etc.

  84. Chris K

    I’d like to reclaim Australia. I’m with Scott. I’d like to reclaim it from the bankers. I’d like to finally get it free of the corporation of the Crown. I’d like to stay (and thanks for the patronising permission to do so) while I inform my fellow Australians about the real problems here and get them fixed.

  85. Jexpat

    Peter sounds like he’d be much more at home in the US southern and lower midwestern states.

    There he could hear and share his perennial fear of Islam (or leftists, etc.) using the worst language his imagination could conjure up and receive accolades from all of his colleagues and neighbours, rather than being seen as an outcast.

  86. corvus boreus

    Peter,
    As requested, here are a couple of photos of ‘reclaim Australia’ rallies.

    http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/apr/04/pauline-hanson-tells-reclaim-australia-groups-rally-criticism-is-not-racism#img-2
    https://au.newshub.org/reclaim-australia-vows-bigger-rallies-after-clashes-federation-square-14993043.html

    In the first you see, ironically, a neo-nazi(swastika tattooed on head) of the ‘rabid right’ standing on the left, exchanging bile with roused rabble(possibly socialist alliance) of the ‘loopy left’ standing on the right.
    It is a shame that the counter-rabble attended. Apart from resulting in public violence for our police to deal with, it also meant that much of the ‘lamestream media'(particularly Murdoch syndicates) failed to notice the swastikas on some of these ‘proud patriots’.
    Nazi symbology should not sully our flag by association.

  87. Peter

    Thank you Corvus, that is really sad.
    Unfortunately there seems to be little anyone can do to control who shows up to any protest.
    As for your comments Jexpat, as long as it means I’m not a ‘dhimmi’ for islam, I will do as I see fit in this great and free country, which will not long remain so with people like you around who obviously refuse to see the forest for the trees.
    I wish you well.

  88. jimhaz

    The Thought Police are strong here, Peter.

    Every new immigrant changes our culture, as every bit of culture they bring here competes with the existing culture and negates it. While most immigrants hardly make any difference at all as they shift towards the dominant Australian culture over time, certain groups do not.
    Middle eastern Muslim immigration should cease entirely, including refugees.

    I find the people here on this issue are like Christians – they are in love with a principle to the extent of the principal being more important than rationality. They just don’t see what our culture was, and more importantly what it could have grown to be without excessive immigration. I’m not entirely against immigration, but it needs to be moderated, and as it has most definitely been excessive for 15 years now, it needs to be cut back until immigrants “catch up” with what remains of our culture.

    Culture has an effect on the way people vote and in return our political masters affect our culture in turn. I’m becoming convinced immigration is helping the LNP more than the ALP, and the LNP are getting away with non-equal policies because so many people are from societies where that is par for the course.

  89. Annie B

    Like many, I always associated the swastika with that most heinous of regimes – Nazi-ism. … To me, it began there. …. I always thought it was a ‘logo’ made up by the Nazi regime as their insignia. I think many more, would have had the same idea.

    I was wrong. It has a very long history. http://www.ancient-origins.net/myths-legends/symbol-swastika-and-its-12000-year-old-history-001312

    What Hitler did, was use and utilise everything at his evil disposal, to con the populace. …. His speeches were pro-Christian ( he was born and raised a Catholic but apparently gave all that up when a young man ), and those speeches were oh so positive – often taking passages from the Bible to underscore his meanings and intent …

    He used the peaceful sign of the swastika to promote his ideologies.. He used anything, anyone and everything to bring to fruition his evil intentions. … it didn’t work. … Strength and goodness instead prevailed in a war that should never have been.

    ……….

    In Buddhism, the swastika is a symbol of good fortune, prosperity, abundance and eternity. The sanskrit word is ‘svasktika’ … meaning well being, good existence and good luck. … the symbol is known by different names in different countries. … It also has ( from ancient times ) a positive and negative, and that depends on whether it is depicted as to the left, or to the right.

    I am appalled to learn now ( as in the 1930’s ), that it is|was used to denote such intolerance, bigotry, racism, white supremacy and other forms of hostility and animosity. …

    Such a cynical and deliberate use of good, to promote evil. …. Hitlers’ pro-Christian speeches were along the same lines – good words to promote his ultimate evil.

    ……………

    The neo-Nazis’ today wouldn’t have a clue about what a swastika is, or stands for – they just like the ‘idea’ of being a neo-Nazi – gives them excuses to behave badly, and to hold up principles that they probably don’t even begin to understand ??

    I have seen the swastika tattooed on quite a few young men in the Eastern suburbs of Melbourne. …. I could say ‘many’ given I don’t travel the entire suburban belt.

    Seems they only wear it to announce their affiliation and desired association toward bad intent.

    I wonder if they knew, exactly its’ origins and what it means, would they try to rid themselves of it ? …

  90. townsvilleblog

    Victoria, people don’t like change, especially change where they can see the result of the same change in countries like England and Belgianstan as it has come to be known. Australians are lovers of freedom and liberty, not religious demands on how people should live their lives, this has never been part of our culture except for a time around 1788 when we were constrained and told what to do, except for the original Australians that is. Mostly we are a peaceful race, who don’t prap 5 times a day.

  91. mars08

    …Mostly we are a peaceful race, who don’t prap 5 times a day…

    Who is this “we” you speak of???

    Australians are definitely NOT a race. And I’m not sure how you define “mostly” peaceful. As for the number of prayers per day… wtf is the point of mentioning that? Is there some correlation between prayers per capita and the urge to engage in violence??

  92. Peter

    Society has become so fake and politically correct, that anyone who speaks the truth is automatically vilified.

  93. Jexpat

    Peter:

    Paranoid, bigoted and ill informed rantings won’t pass for “truth” in most societies- although as noted, the Southern and Lower Midwestern US has proven to be an exception to the rule- as have certain other the US states, such as Idaho, Utah and Arizona.

  94. Jexpat

    Townsvilleblog wrote: “Australians are lovers of freedom and liberty, not religious demands on how people should live their lives…

    If that were the case, and religion didn’t inordinate and undue influence on the nations, then taxpayers wouldn’t be funding religious schools, our public schools wouldn’t be infested with chaplains, and policies with overwhelming popular support such as marriage equality and death with dignity would have long since passed through parliament and been implemented.

  95. mars08

    Australians are lovers of freedom who should be free to practice their religion as they please… as long as it is within the law.

  96. Annie B

    @mars08 … ( re ” Australians are lovers of freedom” … >>> )

    A simple and clear statement of fact. … In one sentence. …. Wish I could learn how to be so succinct. ,,, ( am working on it !! ).

    Good post mars08.

    …..

    @ Jexpat …. also have to agree with your post to a degree .

    Organised religion has become a burden to many, some have become outright financially controlled institutions / businesses with all that it implies ( yet they still claim tax exemption ) … some are downright scary and fear mongering ( not something that is at all desirable ), others intrude on the emotions of the listening congregations ( be that schools or church on Sundays )… etc .

    But it is still any individuals’ choice … to be, to have, to not be, to not have, provided they are old enough and mature enough to make the choice. …. ( while some form of democracy and freedom still exists !! ).

  97. Peter

    Great blog:

    Miranda Devine
    Wednesday, April 08, 2015 (12:25am)

    WHEN leftist authoritarians try to stop people from expressing views they don’t like, they don’t like, all they do is create publicity and even sympathy for causes they oppose.

    Whether they violently disrupt protests against sharia law or force the closure of a pizza shop whose Christian owners don’t want to cater for a hypothetical gay wedding, the morally righteous are their own worst enemy.

    If you watched the foul-mouthed violence and flag-burning of the so-called anti-racists who disrupted peaceful rallies of a hitherto obscure group of protesters named ­Reclaim Australia, you would automatically have sided with the victims of their abuse.

    You may not agree with the Reclaim Australia crowd that Australia has a problem with minorities who “are trying to change Australia’s cultural identity.” You may not agree that halal certification of food in Australia should be banned, that sharia law should be ­illegal, and the burqa forbidden. You may not agree that schools should teach “pride in the Australian flag and anthem”. You may not agree with mandatory 10-year jail terms and deportation for anyone who carries out female genital mutilation. You may be optimistic, as I am, that Australia will absorb Muslim migrants just as well as it has absorbed previous groups and that Australia will be stronger for its ­hybrid vigour.

    But that doesn’t mean that those who think differently shouldn’t air their views without being punched, kicked, spat on, showered with police horse dung, abused and intimidated into going home.

    That’s what happened on Saturday when rallies around the country planned by ­Reclaim Australia to protest Islamic extremism were ­assailed by mobs of Socialist Party activists, unionists, anarchists, Abbott-haters and ­assorted other disgruntles.

    These tolerance police claimed to be acting virtuously as enemies of racism but in ­reality they are part of a well-organised campaign of civil disruption whose ultimate goal is to destroy the capitalist ­system.

    In Sydney, police did a good job of keeping most of the so-called anti-racists apart from the 200 or so Reclaim Australia supporters in the rain at Martin Place. But in Melbourne’s Federation Square the clashes between the two groups were so vicious and ­aggressive, they made headlines around the world.

    Footage shows both sides pushing and shoving, but it was the so-called anti-racists, who initiated the violence.

    They linked arms in Melbourne to form a barrier to stop people, including several speakers, from joining the ­Reclaim rally. They didn’t want to pose a counter view, but to stop the rally.

    “We’re not interested in holding our rally somewhere else … this is dangerous to allow hate speech to occur on the streets of Melbourne,” Socialist Party candidate and union organiser Mel Gregson told reporters. “The streets of Melbourne are not the place for anti-Muslim ideas.”

    What is she so afraid of? A bad idea expressed out loud is a lot better than a bad idea suppressed and forced underground where it festers and gains power.

    Exposed to criticism, ideas can be held up to ridicule, countered with better ideas. If they are bad ideas, the good sense of the Australian people will reject them. That’s the whole point of free speech.

    Max, who describes himself as an “average middle aged bloke” went to the Reclaim rally in Melbourne with his three-year-old in a pram, ­because he wanted to hear what the speakers had to say about Islam. His entrance to Federation Square was blocked by “vile youths spitting and abusing passersby and those wishing to attend”.

    Pushed and shoved, and fearing for his child’s safety, he never made it to the rally, and vented his spleen online ­instead. “It was up to me to make my own opinion of what was to be said.”

    And that is the whole point. All the pseudo anti-racists achieved was to put Reclaim Australia on the map in its very first outing. Now the name is known around the world.

    Pauline Hanson, who spoke at the Brisbane rally, made her name the same way. Her fringe One Nation party gained enormous kudos and public awareness in the 1990s when violent socialist protesters attacked its supporters, bussing in rent — a hooligans to bash elderly people. Hanson became a martyr and a political force overnight. Every violent protest drew new recruits to One Nation. Disgusted by the behaviour of her opponents, the silent majority chose her side, even if they didn’t agree with her views.

    Similarly, when anti-homophobia zealots tried to shut down a pizza shop in small town Indiana after its Christian owners told a reporter they would not cater for a ­hypothetical gay wedding, the backlash was immediate. The public donated $US842,000 in 48 hours to Memories Pizza owners Crystal and Kevin O’Connor, who now say God rewarded them for their stance.

    This is what happens when the totalitarian left tries to ­impose its will in a democracy. It will never win because reasonable people recoil from such closed-minded bigotry.

  98. Peter

    Jexpat, facts are facts no matter how you would rather they become sugar-coated.
    A person who has had their head cut off by a literalist muslim cannot be sugar-coated by you or anyone else.
    Live with it and learn to tell the difference between facts and idealistic rubbish such as you espouse.

  99. stephentardrew

    Peter as far as I can see your truth is pretty twisted and not necessarily representative of the facts. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a civil battle of ideas and people have the right to demonstrate how they wish regardless of your pontificating. The world relies upon a variety of opinions and beliefs expressed in a diversity of ways and there is no proof your way is any more superior to any other. In short a bit of tolerance would help.

    A few random and selective observations do not make for factual evidence or proof of opinion.

  100. Jexpat

    Annie B wrote: “But it is still any individuals’ choice … to be, to have, to not be, to not have, provided they are old enough and mature enough to make the choice. ….

    Here’s what individual choice looks like in this context:

    http://public.health.oregon.gov/ProviderPartnerResources/EvaluationResearch/DeathwithDignityAct/Pages/index.aspx

    http://www.oregonunitedformarriage.org

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/ps_bibl4.htm

    —–

    Suffice to say, we’ve got a long way yet to go.

  101. Annie B

    @Peter : ref. your post ( April 9, 2015 at 10:52 pm )

    Your post there has gone waaaay over the top. …. Could have been a credible post, except for some large-ish exaggerations, which I will get to in a moment.

    I am not trying to bind your post to whether you are Liberal, Labor, Greens inspired, or belong to any church or religious group, are atheist, agnostic, calathumpian or Islamic in your ideas.

    THAT is not my business, and I have no interest in pursuing it.

    However, I AM interested in where you gleaned your information from – ‘ bussing in rent-a-hooligan to bash elderly citizens’ ( a la the 1990’s – Pauline Hanson etc. ) … I am really interested in learning your sources for that statement. … Please identify. I did however, find out something about “Memories Pizza” from the “South Bend Tribune” … which states quite categorically, ” Memories Pizza’s owners Crystal and Kevin O’Connor have never actually been asked to cater any type of wedding, and they didn’t seek out the spotlight. They were offering their opinion on the hypothetical situation in response to a television reporter’s question about the statewide debate over Indiana’s recently passed Religious Freedom Restoration Act.”

    So all that guff was about 2 people offering their opinion – and then ( apparently ) the very gullible U.S. citizens came to their side with money and alleged religious stands against homosexuals ?? Fools and their money are soon parted.

    I have a little suspicion that you went somewhat awry on that post – as you are passionate in your ideals, your beliefs – and you do have a right to speak your mind, as we ALL do, …. but when you do ( and many including myself can attest to this ) …. be prepared to be put back in your place – or ( more kindly ) have someone point out some big holes in your argument. I think I speak for most of the posters here, when I say – ” we have all been on the receiving end of massive differences of opinion – sometimes with, and sometimes without abuse !! ” ….

    So – that doesn’t make you anything special – does it, Peter ?.

    As for making Melbourne ( or anywhere else for that matter ) the subject of your examples, there is NEVER a protest that doesn’t have it’s opposites. … Sometimes those oppositions are small, some equal in size, and some even larger than the original instigating group. … No matter what, if two sides have a diametrically opposed view, there is bound to be at least argument, if not scuffles, if not an all in brawl. In the immortal words of our illustrious leader T Abbott —– ” shit happens “.

    Happen to agree with Mel Gregson – ” the streets of Melbourne is NOT the place for anti-Muslim ideas”. … They are not in fact the place for any anti-Muslim – anti-Christian – anti-any-religion rally. … Nor are the streets of Sydney, Adelaide, et al.

  102. Annie B

    …….. furthermore, Peter – – –

    Must disagree with Miranda Devines comments ” If you watched the foul-mouthed violence and flag-burning of the so-called anti-racists who disrupted peaceful rallies of a hitherto obscure group of protesters named ­Reclaim Australia, you would automatically have sided with the victims of their abuse.”

    http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/mirandadevine/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/silence_and_violence_in_leftist_protest_world/

    Not so Miranda. … People make up their own minds, according to their own beliefs and opinions – way before you ( Miranda ) write some inflammatory article about it. …. And it WAS inflammatory. … That is precisely why she writes, the way she writes. … You ( Peter ) are rather foolish to take any notice of her.

    Still and all – to each his / her own.

    ~ ~ ~ ~

    Finally – your last comment reveals much. …. and as with statistics, it can be proved either way ….

    “This is what happens when the totalitarian left tries to ­impose its will in a democracy. It will never win because reasonable people recoil from such closed-minded bigotry.

    That gem could very well be re-written. ….. replacing ‘ totalitarian left ‘, ‘ with totalitarian right ‘ … The totalitarian and fascist right wing Government in this country is indeed imposing its’ will in democracy. And it ( ultimately ) will never win because reasonable people recoil from such close minded bigotry. – – – – that describes the Abbott Government to a T. ,, 😉

    The LNP won by default in September 2013, as people did not want Rudd to succeed. So Abbott fell into the position, by voters thinking the opposite – – away from Rudd – which was to Abbott. … And what a mistake THAT was. !! …. as we have since discovered.

    Many many Liberals have woken up to that fact as well – I can personally attest to that, from discussions with disillusioned ( and quite disgusted now ) Liberal followers.

  103. Jexpat

    Annie B:

    Miranda Devine is a serial liar and low brow attention seeker who’d never have gotten a position in the first place without her daddy.

    No sense in giving her or her ilk any more of what they crave.

  104. corvus boreus

    Peter,
    Bad move enthusiastically cutting and pasting Miranda Divine. She has previously slung the same terms of opprobrium she aimed at the counter-protesters at the large and varied section of population that peacefully attended the March in March rallies.
    Despite theses people(including myself) making an orderly show of legal protest, she spat sledges of ‘socialist rabble and Abbott haters’. She, like many, only tolerates expression of opinions that align with her own.
    She once also responded to public tragedy caused by criminal arson by suggesting that people should string up ‘greenies’.
    Miranda Divine is ridiculously and hypocritically partisan, linguistically intemperate and woefully inaccurate, as seems to be the norm with the hacks at Newscorp, the most biased and factually inaccurate organisation of the so-called ‘lamestream’ media. The fact that she is also a religious fundamentalist may help explain her biases.
    If she was able to see with both eyes(left and right, she might have better breadth of vision and depth perception.
    As it is, her one eye also myopically failed to notice the swastikas and other unsavoury elements around and within ‘reclaim Australia’.

  105. townsvilleblog

    Islam certainly gets a lot of people fired up, sadly I prefer the Australia of days gone by, the peaceful place it used to be before we received yank propaganda and religious fundamentalists.

  106. mars08

    Islam certainly gets a lot of people fired up…

    One could conclude that it’s actually the influx of “yank propaganda and religious fundamentalists” that is getting people “fired up”

  107. Kuhr

    Recently I wrote an email to a developer stating that the website they had developed with us was not working well with a particular web browser, despite they had signed a contract with a requirement to do so. I was floored at the response this developer sent to me today – they wrote the browser in question had only a miniscule market share, and that he had a graph off the internet that showed the majority of those who used it were ‘of middle eastern origin’ and so he thought that based on that he should not try to further refine compatibility with this browser. I still cannot fathom the exact illogical pathway with which he tried to maneuver out of a contractual agreement by associating the requirement with potential Muslim end-users. I am starting to believe racism in Australian society is starting to become the wheat that one day the farmer notices has grown taller than his head.

  108. Rossleigh

    Saw an interesting post on Facebook from a Reclaim Australia supporter where he claimed that they were now getting support from Britain and other places and that soon they’d be reclaiming “the world”…

    https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=974428675903496&set=vb.920332737979757&type=2&theater

    One wonders whether Abbott will have anything to say. Shorten’s response here:

    http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-05/bill-shorten-condemns-reclaim-australia-fears-as-exaggerated/6371506?plckOnPage=2

  109. Peter

    Since there are many who post here who would refuse to recognise literalist islam even after their head rolls away from their body courtesy of a jihadi, I will post no more on this subject.
    It would be like ‘casting pearls before swine’.
    I wish you all nice lives.

  110. rossleighbrisbane

    Thanks Peter, for your biblical allusion, but thank you most of all for not posting any more. Otherwise, I may be forced to point out some other literalist biblical interpretations. And also I’d then be pointing out that it’s Reclaim Australia who are trying to “take over the world”. Look at the video I posted.

    🙂

  111. LOVO

    As a white fella I’de like to apologise about the Peters and marks we have in this great country of ours….. us whiteys are not all like THAT 😯
    One wonders what they may think about the reality of Global Warming ……..no, really 😉
    One, also, wonders where the Petes and marks find the time to be so ardent in their time wasting supremacy………. mayhap they should go around the block picking up rubbish if they really want to do something useful for Australia and Australians, ’cause what their doin’ now ain’t helping ANY ’cause’ 😛 😛 😛
    Oh and P.S. Pete n’ mark- Say G’Day to Iain for me, ay. 😆 😆 😆

  112. Annie B

    @ Rossleigh …

    Went to that link you provided … the facebook video from that self-appointed leader of Reclaim Australia.

    The followers were absolutely ALL right-wing ( should say extreme right ) – commenting often on the ‘ lefties’ and berating them. … There were many followers, but perhaps not as many as there might have been…. it certainly wasn’t a 1 million followers viral sensation. …. I did not comment btw !

    I posted this on another of your articles … ( which was out of sync. with the topic !! ) …. and repost it here now.

    ,,,,,,,,,,

    ( prompted by the meme of Tania Plibersek [ I think it was ] with a Hitler moustache, and a swastika in the background ).

    ” Put that moustache on the current self-appointed ‘leader’ of the Reclaim Australia mob, and throw in the flag shown, and you have an idea of what he is, and who he is trying to emulate.

    Apart from being one of the greatest con artists around, he is either a) an extremely dangerous person who does indeed infect with charisma …. or he is a splash in the pan / a one day wonder.

    I do hope it is the latter.”

    In my link to link search, I came across another video of an interview done by ‘ Sneaky TV ‘ … which is a bit rough around the edges as far as interviews go – and contains some pretty bad language … but does show the self-made-reclaimer, in way less than a good light. …. He thinks he is super great – with his ( alleged ) great knowledge – [ about everything ] … but comes across as a puerile wanna-be, but possibly a very dangerous person in the making.

    http://www.sneakymag.com/life/we-spoke-to-the-great-aussie-patriot-about-reclaim-australia/

    Another ( totally ) ridiculous off-shoot to all this Reclaim hoo-hah … is this link I also found.

    http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-boycott-halal-campaign-just-took-stupid-to-a-whole-new-level-targeting-jacobs-creek-wines-2015-4?wt=2

    The alarm in all this is – he / they will have a go at absolutely anything, to get their message across. …. However, perhaps he / they have been tripped up with this one …. the link will explain it.

  113. stephentardrew

    Kevin:

    Regardless we still have race issues in this country and to deny it is ignorance. Where there is intolerance all society need to confront and, if possible, eliminate it. Being on top of the heap does not make you immune to racism and intolerance. A large percentage of the people in this country accept a lying and deceitful government so we certainly need to reclaim our moral sensibilities.

    As for sanctimonious don’t you realise you live in a democracy of civility and diverse opinion not just your opinion.

  114. Jexpat

    Kevin:

    Two problems.

    1. The map and the article(s) referenced don’t purport to show what you think they purport to show. They show the exact opposite

    2. The Washington Post is nearly always agenda driven, its writers and bloggers know this- and it colours their presentation and their copy, even (or perhaps especially) on science and social science matters.

    Here what we have is sophistry. An effort by the Post to demonstrate (with astonishingly low resolution) that the US is not racially intolerant via the use of self report data, despite the fact that black people are being harassed, beaten, tasered, shot and killed by authorities on a daily basis, to the extent that it can no longer be ignored. This among other verifiable, objective public statements by opinion leaders and the general populace, and discriminatory behaviours and processes.

    Researchers have a name for the type of conclusion that Max Fisher, the Post writer, is pushing: it’s known as spurious, and such work will get you very poor marks at university.

  115. Jexpat.

    Quick example of the type of objective data that puts the lie to Mr. Fisher & the Washington Post’s spurious assertion:

    After conducting an analysis of more than 10,000 bicycle tickets issued by the Tampa police over the past 12 years, the Tampa Bay Times has found that 79 percent of those ticketed are black. Blacks make up about a quarter of the city’s population.

    http://gawker.com/report-tampa-cops-targeting-black-cyclists-1698667438

    There are quite literally hundreds if not thousands more datasets like this to choose, compile, distil and extrapolate from.

    Something to think about, whenever someone chucks out a map or a headline.

  116. Mark Needham

    Have just come in, after sometime off.
    As a “Love it or Leave” person, I reckon your article is spot on.

    Your perception that most “Love or Leavers” are racist, bigots et al, is, however, incorrect.

    How do I know, that I am “right” in my opinions, has the same validity as does your knowledge of “Right”
    Wrong, been there often and could be there now.
    The, “Always Right, never Wrong” edicts, are the ones that disappoint me the most.
    “You have said, therefore you are a racist”,
    ”It was written in a newspaper”,
    “God told us”,
    “From the ABS”,
    “Government Policy”.

    It reeks of school yard bullying and is usually no more or less.
    Me personally, ”Love it or Leave”

    PS. I have just re-read the article, and I still reckon, “the batsman and bowler” are on the same team.

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