Is there a glimmer of a coming Enlightenment…

European politics, philosophy, science and communications were radically reoriented during the course…

Embassy Disappearances: Jamal Khashoggi and the Foreign Policy…

“Do this outside. You will put me into trouble” (Mohammad al-Otaibi, Saudi…

Nauru - Is this a Mexican Stand-Off ?…

There are about 119 children currently detained with their families on Nauru…

DNA in Trumpland: Elizabeth Warren’s Native American Dance

Senator Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) made a fundamental error in chasing the coattails…

Climate recalcitrance

By John Haly“Recalcitrant” is what Prime minister Keating once described Malaysian prime…

The ridiculous state of politics in Australia

Scrolling through Scott Morrison’s twitter feed shows just how ridiculous politics in…

Stability, Promises The PM Who Was Elected Eight…

“With the Liberal Party, you know what you are going to get,”…

The Fallout from Wentworth

It takes a brave pundit to predict the outcome of the Wentworth…

«
»
Facebook

How Australians Justify Torture

By Eva Cripps

Torture is an evocative word. It conjures up images of shackles, chains, beatings, burnings, suffocation, and waterboarding. Almost everyone has watched a movie that incorporates some element of torture. Blind fold over face and knife to throat, submersion into a watery pit, a bucket full of scorpions. While this visual imagery is captivating, in reality the threshold as to what constitutes torture is not as high as many Australians think.

Graphic scenes of torture in movies and TV series are seen as entertainment and definitely not part of reality. It is only reality in third world, war torn countries, or in underworld gangs in faraway cities infested with organised crime. Certainly, state-sanctioned torture has no place in a Western, democratic, developed nation. There is an uncomfortable denial from many that Australia’s treatment of asylum seekers amounts to torture.

The Australian Government is unrepentant in its asylum seeker policy. Prime Minister Tony Abbott is determined to do whatever it takes to fulfil his ‘Stop the Boats’ election promise. This includes the guarantee that no genuine refugee, let alone economic migrant, who attempts to come to Australia by boat, will ever ‘call Australia home’. Those who do attempt the journey are either turned back to Indonesia or held in detention in offshore processing facilities on Manus Island or Nauru.

In March 2015, the United Nations slammed Australia for violating international obligations with its treatment of asylum seekers, stating that it amounted to torture. This followed the November 2014 ‘children in detention’ report from the Australian Human Rights Commission. The report found systematic exposure to and horrific cases of sexual and physical abuse of children in immigration detention.

Despite the independent and sustained reports of torture and abuse in a regime funded by the Australian taxpayer, many people remain apathetic. And the Government’s recently enacted laws which may see doctors, health workers and counsellors jailed for reporting abuse, will further remove any potential discomfort from the minds of many Australians.

But for those who do engage, the conversation often revolves around whether those subjected to abuse in detention are ‘genuine refugees’. In a strange twist of logic, it seems that the government-defined classification of the asylum seeker is entirely relevant as to whether a fellow human being should be tortured at the taxpayer expense.

“They’re not genuine refugees, they are economic migrants,” is a common response to any condemnation of the asylum seeker policy.

As if this makes all the difference.

Are these Australians really so callous as to endorse Government-funded torture, simply because a person, labelled an ‘economic migrant’, dares to seek a better life?

“They’re not real refugees. They should have waited their turn. It was their choice to get on a boat. If they can afford to pay people smugglers, they can afford a visa.”

Are Australians, as a nation, really saying that where they believe a person is not escaping torture, genocide or persecution, it is acceptable to detain and torture them for simply seeking a new life in another country? Are Australians actually comfortable with their tax dollars being spent on this?

The assumption behind Abbott’s policy is that the people smuggling business will be thwarted by removing all hope of settlement in Australia. Abbott has made it clear that “If you want to start a new life, you come through the front door, not through the back door.” He believes that if there is no chance of seeking a better life, the incentive to get on a leaky boat is removed. But desperate people, escaping persecution, have little option when the alternative to getting on a boat is death in a jungle.

And the Government, in its failure to acknowledge that the vast majority of asylum seekers are genuine refugees, will no longer even ask if a person will face torture if returned to their country of origin before turning back a boat.

The Australian Government is quite clearly telling all asylum seekers, regardless of their personal situation, that if they want safety and security, Australia won’t help. If they make it to Australia by boat, they will be locked up indefinitely in detention. Their babies will spend their formative years exposed to abuse. Their punishment for seeking a better life is torture.

The same Government is telling Australians, if they want a better life, get a good job with good pay. Earn or learn. Have a go. If they can’t get a job, move to a different location.

The recent rage surrounding the ‘housing affordability’ debate and ‘tampon tax’ campaign highlights the contrast between white Australian expectations and the reality for those seeking asylum.

First home buyers, faced with rising house prices in major cities, have rightly been offended by out-of-touch Treasurer Joe Hockey’s flippant advice that they should get a good job with good pay if they want to buy a house in Sydney. But while many of these people may be currently living with their parents in the leafy suburbs, in a share house near the CBD, or renting a perfectly suitable home, asylum seekers are housed in barely liveable conditions that are ‘rat-infested, cramped and very hot’.

Australian women, angry that essential health and hygiene products are taxed as ‘luxury items’, are well within their rights to lobby for change. However it is no surprise that a Government who considers pads and tampons ‘luxury items’ for Australian women, has no concerns about restricting access to sanitary products for asylum seekers. Abbott might think a little differently if it were his wife and three daughters walking around with blood clots running down their legs.

If housing affordability comments and unfair taxes can cause so much outrage amongst Australians, why doesn’t the torture of asylum seekers?

The hypocrisy in the messages is astounding.

One group of people is subjected to torture, cruel and inhumane treatment for seeking a better life, while another group is actively encouraged to do so. And what is the difference?

Only people lucky enough to be ‘Australian’ are entitled to better their circumstances. Only people who already have a pretty good standard of living are entitled to improve their situation. It is not the responsibility of Australia to help asylum seekers. But not only that, if they come to us for help, we will torture them.

If a person is from a country destroyed by war, a minority persecuted in their homeland, stricken by poverty, we will make their life so hellish in our detention centres they would rather face persecution at home.

The ‘Stop the Boats’ policy has never been about saving lives. It was always a populist tactic to appeal to voters who believe the media rhetoric around ‘queue jumping’ and ‘illegal immigrants’. While Australians fear that ‘economic migrants’ will steal their jobs, there will always be support for draconian asylum seeker policies and no widespread condemnation of appalling conditions.

The Australian Government spends more than $1.2 billion a year on offshore detention facilities, endorsing torture, and physical and sexual abuse. It has promised to pay Cambodia $40 million to accept refugees; a country known for human rights abuses. That is a lot of money which could be spent in Australia, boosting the local economy and creating jobs for Australians.

There is no justification for the way the Australian Government is treating asylum seekers.

None at all.

It should make no difference at all if a person is a genuine refugee or economic migrant. They must be processed quickly, humanely and allowed to get on with their lives.

Staying silent is condoning the torture.

 


59 comments

  1. kathysutherland2013

    Read your great article, but I’m still none the wiser – why are we so apathetic? Or isit just over-sensitive bleeding-hearts like me? Incidentally, when did “bleeding-hearts” become a derogatory term?

  2. stephentardrew

    As soon as it was gong to cost conservatives, well lets say the middle class mainly, a cent.

    Deflection works a treat as the sheeple follow the emotional con by falling to fear while leaving rationality and logic behind.

  3. Wally

    Sometimes I wonder why refugees want to come to Australia, it is torture reading the bullshit Tony, Joe and the LNP come out with in the news everyday!

    The abuse people suffer in detention centres is wrong but jumping the queue is wrong as well. I think Julia had the right idea with the Malaysian agreement that effectively put those who tried to jump the queue back to the and of the queue. Imagine how much quicker, cost effective and easier it would be if everybody waited and took their turn through the correct channels.

    There is no justifiable excuse for what is happening to refugees at the hand of the Abbott government.

  4. Rosemary (@RosemaryJ36)

    It was, to their shame, Labor who introduced offshore processing – out of sight, out of mind/
    Both major parties and far too many Australians are guilty of torture and inhumanity in consequence.
    No one seems to be taking any steps to change the situation and I for one am ashamed to be Australian.

  5. Michael Taylor

    Totally agree, Rosemary.

  6. Andreas Bimba

    Eva your article is all true and I like many are ashamed of our government and all those stupid bigoted voters who support this bastardry. A few such as Greens Senator Sarah Hanson-Young have followed an honourable path by constantly exposing the appalling actions of our federal government and maybe after the 2016 federal election we can have a credible government. The Liberal Party and National Party are all contemptible bastards and Labor are little better. Only vote for ethical parties such as the Australian Greens.

  7. Florence nee Fedup

    We have a choice, or at least the government has. They can let those people linger on the Islands, demonising, torturing, offering them no future, costing us billions, On the other hand, we could cut our losses, bring them to the mainland, allowing them to become productive members of our society, contributing to the economy, not taking from it.

    Abbott spruiks about terrorism How many are being produced by his so called refugee policies?

    This mob, when in Opposition, stood up in both houses, with tears screaming down their faces, with great dramatics, against the Malaysian Solution. They opposed it because in their minds, Gillard couldn’t guarantee the safety or wellbeing of the refugees in that country.

    Spent much of later life in welfare, when one sometimes had to play God with peoples lives. Spent many hours in case conferences, where one formed case plans that in reality interfered in peoples lives, especially children.

    There were two, spoken/unspoken rules that one kept in mind. The case plan must not cause harm. The second, was every plan had to have a get out clause. Yes, one kept in mind, no matter how one tried, it might fail.

    This government breaks both of those rules. It causes great harm. There is no get out clause. Will these people still be on the three island in a decade or two. Will the babies we are sending their, become adults in that environment.

    It doesn’t do anything to make refugees lives safer in any way, All it does, is makes their escape much harder and more dangerous.

    This government cares nothing fro people fleeing for their lives. They care only that none enter our shores. What happens to them, in their eyes is no business let alone responsibility of ours.

    Abbott behaviour lately is not only thumbing his nose at great majority of Australians, he is now thumbing it at the whole world.

    Boasting on commercial radio yesterday, about destroying a growing industry, whining the senate stopped him from wiping it out altogether, says it all.

    Like to add, was Dutton’s disgraceful demonising nasty comments abut SHY. Such immature behaviour. Brandis ongoing attack, using lies on Trigg.

  8. darrel nay

    The notion that governments are near the head of the modern slave-trade produces cognitive dissonance (too much fluoride in the water, maybe).

    If government policy looks Hitlerian and smells Hitlerian it probably is Hitlerian.

    thanks to AIMN for exposing it

  9. Lee

    I don’t understand the attitude of the majority of Australians. I’m very disappointed and ashamed to be Australian.

  10. Jollyjumbuck

    Look I don’t like what is happening as much as the next person, but I keep coming back to the same question, How many more refugees is Australia expected to take? We take one lot then more come and more and more come. Where the hell does it end? It’s not only the Abbott government but all governments around the world that is faced with this crisis. Why can’t the United Nations get involved with this? This is a world wide problem not just ours. I also don’t believe all these people are running from persecution. We also need to be mindful that not all refugees come here for a better life. Time and time again they want to return to their homeland to fight for these murderous causes and then as soon as someone wants to strip them of their Australian citizenship we all get up in arms about how bloody cruel it is. I don’t believe anyone will win. You’re damned if you do and you’re damned if you don’t. So can we please all get down off our high horses and start looking at the bigger picture and long term picture. The is Australia, a country where I want to see my children and their children live a free life but this is going to change if we continue bringing more and more bloody Muslims into this country. We will end up with a bloody Arab state inside Australia and I for one never want to see this occur. This is the future of Australia in the big picture. If you really want to land the blame somewhere then you only have to look at the lies told to us by Bush and followed by Blair and Howard. These three men alone started this fiasco with going to war and this is the result the world now have to face. Wake up Australia!

  11. Loz

    The demonising of people not white by this government is part of the problem. Australians are fearful of their religion and think that muslims will take over their jobs and cause havoc to our society. Some Australians have no understanding of the horrors of war in the countries the refugees are fleeing. The MSM is of course also responsible for their sloppy journalism. I cannot though see how this government can incarcerate these people indefinitely. The consequences would be horrendous as people with no hope slowly start to shut down, become depressed and suicidal. Others will have so much anger inside them they will continue to revolt. The cruelty of this government is beyond my understanding but they will eventually be taken to task for what they have allowed to happen. I am a great believer in people getting their comeuppance and this government will in the end get their comeuppance.
    The government must engage with other countries to try and come to some agreement of how to help these refugees. This is an ongoing situation and just to lock people up and throw away the key is not helping anyone.

  12. Denis Hay

    It is not only the NLP who supports this obscene treatment of asylumn seekers. The Labor party is just as bad. It would cost the Australian tax payer a fraction of what it costs now to bring the asylumn seekers to Australia, house them in the community and process their claims fairly and swiftly.

    I worked out once that if the Australian government bought all the asylumn seekers to Australia, bought each of them a good house, and paid them a living wage for a year while they got on their feet it would still be cheaper than what it cost tax payers now.

    Our governments and Australians should hang their heads in shame.

  13. Jollyjumbuck

    Why the hell should all of them come here? If you want to house one of them, then go ahead. Wonder how long that would last! Our Australian children today can’t afford a home of their own and you want the government to give them homes to live in over our own? You sir are hypocrite. Today they are taking our jobs, our lands, our properties, our businesses, we have a government selling Australia’s soul to the stinking Chinese and you think you have the solution to this problem! Pull your head out of the sand and start looking at the big picture! You ask yourself? When is enough, ENOUGH!

  14. Lee

    Jollyjumbuck, Australia is spending as much money on “stopping the boats” containing a few thousand refugees as the UNHCR is spending worldwide on millions of refugees. It would be cheaper to take them in and pay them welfare. Let’s not forget that many of these people are fleeing war which has arisen due to the meddling and incompetence of Australia and its allies. The United States has created one stuff up after another in the middle east, each time creating an opportunity for a worse enemy to rise to power. It’s time Australia stopped supporting the US in its wars. Surely the fact that the US has been in wars for most of its existence speaks to the type of people they have running the country.

  15. Lee

    Who said Australia takes all of them? There are an estimated 42.5 million refugees worldwide. Australia is ranked 47th by the UNHCR for hosting refugees.

  16. Jollyjumbuck

    Perhaps but we are also a very small country in comparison.

  17. Jollyjumbuck

    Finally someone has agreed with me on who should be held responsible for this disaster. But for me I see the bigger picture on what the damage could be if we continue to allow middle eastern refugees to take a foothold in this country. I apologise if I seem harsh but I worry about the future safety of my country. How long will it be before we have a 9/11 here. We already have easterners leaving to fight these barbaric wars and then turn around and want to come back. Come back and do what? We don’t and won’t know until it happens!

  18. Lee

    We already have enough killers in this country that we are ignoring. It’s time for a little less concern about something that has never happened, and a little more concern about the family terrorism that occurs in this country every single day. Australia doesn’t need a foreign enemy to ruin the future for our young people. We’re doing a good job within our own dysfunctional society.

  19. diannaart

    Agree with your sentiments Lee.

    The person who used to terrorise me was white, male and a British citizen. He arrived here on the 10 pound ECONOMIC refugee scheme – just like Abbott did.

    I guess it all depends just which nation you are from and what shade your skin colour is.

  20. donwreford

    Australians are well groomed to be obsessed by sport, money making, or should one say material gain?, hedonism, and the pleasure seeking now is our obsession, any serious thought provoking ideology is seen you are no longer fun? noted Abbott talks incessantly of the death cult? quoting beheading for example? how many have seen live footage of Israeli abattoirs breaking the legs of live Australian cattle who are innocent before slaughter? We the white pure Australians and the rest of the rat bags that make up this culture, how many Iraq’s have been killed who are innocent civilians? who just want a life free of violence and want to live a family life? you will note the Western Alliance will not show you the maimed and those dying slowly of wounds inflicted by those who are nice tax paying Australians chipping in on our war effort, that contributes directly to those who are victims of war? these victims would be suffering more pain than a beheading? time to wake up Australia to what part you play in what you do not want to see on TV nor in most cases want to think or talk about this reality.
    Australians hear on our media how some one dies in a cafe as a result of a driver hitting a LPG bottle, all very touching to hear how our sentiment is directed to one of us, incessantly, from my point of view a life in Iraq is equal to a Australian life? yet almost no reference is made to thousands who die in another part of the world whom must be considered lesser humans than us? how come? I suggest we do not need to read RD Laing, as a so called eminent psychiatrist to explain “them and us” if you are still connected to your conscience it should be understood.
    Here we cannot let it go past on hearing our politicians who are baffled by the the Middle East pull upon our youth? could it be the West is trespassing on the Middle East to exploit their resources and also the use of a questionable invasion by military force? the self righteous non questioning of our leaders who see no wrong within our referring to our self definitions of Western politics? we talk of Islamic propaganda no mention of what I consider is Western propaganda, either we are so depraved we see no wrong within our narrative, or we are all so consumed with our culture indoctrination that we can no longer get it.

  21. Lee

    The US goes around the world, sticking its nose in everyone else’s business and inventing reasons to war other nations. Then they wonder why they piss people off and make some dangerous enemies. Is it surprising that a group of irate Arabs wants revenge on the US and its allies? If the US was a child, it would be the problem child of the neighbourhood, the kind of child that sensible parents want their own children to avoid because they will be caught up in trouble. We encourage terrorism in this country by being allied to the problem child that is the United States of America and by demonising the Muslims who are settled in this country. I work with several Muslims and I socialise with some of them too. Every single one of them is a much nicer person than anyone I have ever met inside a Christian church, and I spent several years going to church.

  22. Lee

    “The person who used to terrorise me was white, male and a British citizen. He arrived here on the 10 pound ECONOMIC refugee scheme – just like Abbott did.”

    Tony Abbott has a history of violence against women too. It’s no surprise that he wants to ignore family terrorism.

  23. Loz

    Lee at first I thought you were talking about Tony Abbott.

  24. stephentardrew

    It amazes me in this day and age whereby science clearly demonstrates that personality types are spread pretty evenly amongst populations that the type of prejudice demonstrated by some here still exists. We need to appeal to all good and reasonable people no matter what culture or religion to demonstrate caring and concern for their fellow beings. We need to appeal to those who see themselves as belonging to an ideology of exclusion and elitism that it is completely irrational and discriminatory. You don’t change hearts and minds through impoverishment and vilification. Thats why nature gives us mirror neurons, empathy and a moral sense.

    When will we learn that a them and us attitude is dividing and destroying cultures by allowing a forum for the dangerous and deviant. So by interfering in the Middle East we have brought about the concentration of dysfunction in one place leading to the type of megalomania we see with ISIS. It’s easy to blame but difficult to take responsibility for your mistakes.

    Our moral teachers are often those who rise above narrow mindedness and prejudice. Better act like our respected examples rather than give praise while doing the opposite. The sooner we start thinking and not reacting with fear driven by emotional primitivism the sooner we can find rational solutions rather than endlessly repeating our failures.

    The hardest thing is to recognise our hypocrisy and strive for a new set of values based upon love, goodness and decency. To copy what others do just because they do it is grossly immature and hypocritical. If we want better societies then we better radically change our habitual patterns through a commitment to creativity, reformation, justice and equity. You lead by example however if you do unto others others then blame them for the outcome the more fool you.

    We directly and explicitly produced this mess and now we have to take responsibility for it or follow in the footsteps of the devianct and dysfunctional. Deflection and victim blame simply leads to more of the same.

    Put yourself in a refugees shoes and see how you feel.

    Dissociation through self-interest and protection of your privileged position will not make a problem we helped create go away.

  25. stephentardrew

    Bullshit darrel nay they are thieves working in the same kitchen.

  26. darrel nay

    reply for stephentardrew,

    My point exactly – so I’m not sure what you are claiming is BS. All I am saying is that we are quick to blame the U.S. when NATO and the UN are also involved. I am just sick of the endless wars.

    Cheers

  27. stephentardrew

    darrel nay: Sorry if I misinterpreted my apologies.

  28. Rosemary (@RosemaryJ36)

    “This mob, when in Opposition, stood up in both houses, with tears screaming down their faces, with great dramatics, against the Malaysian Solution. They opposed it because in their minds, Gillard couldn’t guarantee the safety or wellbeing of the refugees in that country.”
    Actually they opposed anything Gillard suggested and their sheer hypocrisy is clear from the fact that they are continuing the off-shore processing established by the ALP and choosing to pay countries like Cambodia to re-settle refugees.
    If these refugees all came here, lived in reasonable conditions while helping to build strategically based housing communities to be shareg between existing and new citizens and used their skills to contribute to our economy, surely that could be a win-win?
    It is pure selfishness and greed on the part of many Austratrans which makes them so negative towards refugees.
    Australian values used to be based on the ethics underpinning Christianity. Not much in evidence now!

  29. kathysutherland2013

    So, Jollyjumbuck, you don’t want Muslims here. Does that mean you’re OK with cruelty? Torture? Kids in detention? Or doesn’t it matter if they’re Muslim!

  30. Jollyjumbuck

    All governments are responsible for this mess. Especially the USA! It still doesn’t mean that we keep taking in more and more of these people. Australia is already suffering from stinking policies that the last three governments have passed. There are so many things wrong in this country right now that need fixing. I don’t know what the answer is but I don’t believe that bringing more and more refugees in is going to solve the problems, only increase the hostility already felt by a lot of Australians. I hold grave concerns for this country and considering how unpredictable these easterners are for wanting to leave a country that gave them freedom only to go back and fight for these barbaric causes they claim they left for in the first place. I am also concerned about the brainwashing of our young people. If that makes me a bad Australian in your eyes then so be it!

  31. jimhaz

    [All governments are responsible for this mess]

    I also would do much the same as the LNP have done – EXCEPT that I would first reduce immigration be 50% and muslim immigration from poor countries by 95%.

    It is the only policy of theirs that I agree with, though as it is being implemented by bullies and traitors, the outcomes for many individuals leaves a lot of scope for improvement, even taking into account the exaggeration and prompting.

    Yes all govs are responsible for this mess mainly because the UN refugee charter is out of date. We are following an ideology meant for world wars when travel was so much more difficult, not religious based wars.

    No one has ever convinced me that the majority of asylum seekers are truly in danger were they to move to another part of their country. of those we actually take maybe 5k per annum are not primarily economic refugees – mainly those who have been involved in political resistance.

    If immigration were halved, I’d rather we helped 50,000 North Koreans move to Australia than 5,000 middle eastern Muslims (we are slowly becoming an Asian country in any case). No one should be forced to tolerate aggressive religious nuttery in any form purely because the government is too gutless to be honest about what they are doing with immigration (the sole purpose of high levels of immigration is to make the rich richer by bringing us down to the social state of other poorer countries).

  32. diannaart

    @jimhaz

    No one has ever convinced me that the majority of asylum seekers are truly in danger were they to move to another part of their country.

    Then take off your blinkers and learn about this world (it is rather complex – you might need to think about it):

    The migration data, which are expected to be released this week by the Iraqi Red Crescent Organization but were given in advance to The New York Times, indicate that in Baghdad alone there are now nearly 170,000 families, accounting for almost a million people, that have fled their homes in search of security, shelter, water, electricity, functioning schools or jobs to support their families.

    The figures show that many families move twice, three times or more, first fleeing immediate danger and then making more considered calculations based on the availability of city services or schools for their children. Finding neighbors of their own sect is just one of those considerations.

    Over all, the patterns suggest that despite the ethnic and sectarian animosity that has gripped the country, at least some Iraqis would rather continue to live in mixed communities.

    The Red Crescent compiled the figures from reports filed as recently as the end of August by tens of thousands of relief workers scattered across all parts of Iraq who are straining to provide aid for an estimated 280,000 families swept up nationwide in an enormous and complex migration.

    A bird’s-eye view of the data suggests that since the bombing of a revered Shiite mosque in February 2006 triggered severe sectarian strife, Sunnis generally have been moving north and west, Shiites south, and Christians to the far north. But the picture in the mixed and highly populous center of the country is, if anything, becoming more complicated

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/19/world/middleeast/19displaced.html?_r=0

    http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iraq/iraqi_refugees/index.html

  33. Florence nee Fedup

    I wonder if many realise, the number of refugees that come to this country are a small part of our migrant intake. Why not cut the other categories if one really believe we cannot cope. We have been taking 13,700 since this government came to power. Many are highly educated and would pay their way.

    As for killers, I have not noticed that murderers only come from the Muslin community. DV murders are a big problems, but sadly most of these are Caucasian, Australian bred.

    I would start with cutting back 457 and other temporary work visas if one had concerns.

    Migrants create more jobs and wealth than they take from the community. It Is migration that has made this country great.

    We seem to be cutting off our nose to spite our face, with the inhuman way we treat these people.

  34. Phi

    Dear, sweet @jollyjumbuck – you really do have your back against the wall.

    Maybe try and lighten up a bit and definitely let go that race card – it’s winning you no tricks and few friends that would be worth calling friends.

    There is no asylum seeker queue – that line is a worn out myth. No one is ‘taking’ anyone’s jobs – that’s another myth. There are no such people as ‘unpredictable easterners’ – another myth.

    You label the Chinese as ‘stinking’ why? What have they done to you for such prejudice? Did they train and employ Osama Bin Laden and his Mujahadeen to turn the Russians out of Afghanistan only to have Osama and a host of Saudi nationals then turn on the USA with hijacked planes? Did the Chinese invade secular, peaceful Iraq in 2003 and in so doing reignite ancient feuds between Shia and Sunni Muslims? Did they bomb Afghanistan into oblivion after the 9/11 attacks?

    No jollyjumbuck, they did none of these world destroying things. All they did was build and build cheaply, virtually every gadget you own, and more, and they propped up your nation’s mining boom (the benefits of which since squandered by John Howard) – so what exactly did these ‘stinking Chinese’ do to make you so paranoid?

    You say you are concerned about brainwashing of young people, but as one who has posted so many regurgitated propagandist myths as you have in your few posts here, I think you should look in the mirror – it is there that you will see a brainwashed soul.

  35. Lee

    @Phi

    like

  36. paul walter

    Florence nee Fed up, you misunderstand the objectives of the border security issue.

    It is not about actually protecting us, or ensuring a just solution for asylum seekers.

    It is about providing a diversion from other issues that show the conservative agenda up and scaring the less educated and bright into beleiving there is an actual rather than concocted problem, as also with the slyly aligned “terrierism”. The sheep vote coalition or some Hansonist affiliate in case the sky falls down like they’ve beeen told, if even one crafty boat person reaches these pristine shores.

    The fierce God of the Old Testament must be propitiated, we gather from the raving of Morrison, Abbott and the other grim fundamentalist bible-bashers running this place. The Judges and Holy Folk have pronounced sentence, wearing black caps.

  37. Florence nee Fedup

    paul. I fear you under estimate me. Anything Abbott does is not as it appears, is not for our benefit.

  38. Annie B

    To Eva Cripps — An excellent summary of all that besets us in Australia at this time. Great writing and thank you.

    The comments are quite extraordinary. …. mostly fantastic with a few exceptions ( IMO ) … Well hell mates, I read, and comprehend – we ALL do here – which leads me to say the following :

    …..

    I have sat on some information for a while now, awaiting the right opportunity, which I will share – because I am seriously interested in politics, this forum, and other on-line information, social media, other independent media et al.

    Haven’t we all been interested ? ………. Yes, the AIM’ers have / are – and other independent media, and some MSM, but what of the rest of the community. ?

    a) … I have asked approx. 20 people if they are interested in a) politics and b) involve themselves in political debate or comment on-line. …. 20 is not many I know, but the result was awful. …. One did ( which could have resulted in a verbal punch-up !! ) , and others made various comments – ‘don’t want to be upset’ … ‘got better things to do’ … ‘who cares ?’, ‘if I had my way they’d all be shot’ and ‘Facebook – it’s rotten’. …. ( well Facebook CAN be rotten, but moving on ).

    b) … I asked my husband to ask the same two questions of his staff at his place of work, in a throw-away, light-hearted one-line way ( he’s good at that ! ). … His company has many companies now under the one umbrella, but this was where he physically works. approx. 60 people. … Not ONE of them showed the slightest interest in political endeavour or result – ( which may have been because they live by the ‘ never discuss religion or politics ‘ mantra ) … many said they ‘see things on ‘Facebook …. but ignore them’ … and are ‘only on Facebook to keep up with their friends ‘…. well – that IS social media, and what it was originally intended for. ….

    In the main, it was all ‘bah humbug’. … complete disinterest. … He didn’t press any points.

    Thing is, people – in general, in this country are not being educated, refuse to listen, are being stultified by the MSM, and are particularly sick and tired of seeing the ‘same ole, same ole’ garbage delivered by ( specifically by the Abbot ), on their TV screens. … They have turned off, tuned out, and that then applies to whatever ALL politicians have to say – about anything. … so there is not much chance of critical thinking that can go on. … And the abbot makes absolutely SURE of this, by making his daily ( ugh ) appearance with some further inane comment or other ….. but it all misses the point – he overplays his hand and that is quite deliberate – it is a dumbing down of the audience.

    THAT is his sole purpose … to completely wear out the collective psyche of the Australian people.
    Fascism and totalitaranism at its’ best.

    How to fix this mess ? …….. I have no idea. … But someone, more expert than we are, had best come up with something rather quickly to give us something else to think about – collectively. …. While we debate here – and the AIM is an excellent site for giving forth some superb ideas, ideals, thoughts and comments, it is not everybodys’ cup of tea. …. AIM has 2,250 subscribers …. not a big % to get the message out.

    As for the main thrusts of this article – I could say plenty, but will desist – have said enough. !! 🙂

  39. Annie B

    @ Darrel Nay …. Interesting video, but does not convince me that the almighty U.S. of bloody A would EVER concede to being ruled by NATO or any other world organisation. ….

    They are what they are – the self imposed police of the world, and greatest instigators of war in our times. …. History will show that. ….

    Panetta was taking a middle stand – trying to acknowledge ( for once by someone from that country !! ) … that the U.S. is also ( or should be ) subject to international agreement on anything that affects global affairs, and I applaud him for his stance. …. Good to hear someone from that country, acknowledge that other people actually exist !!.

    The grey headed bloke ( not named that I could see ) … baited Panetta, but could not throw him. … Obviously the questioner was a Republican – but I stand to be corrected on that. … Certainly sounded like one though. !!

    …………

    The link provided on your comment has been a subject addressed by many – the manipulations by the U.S. in bringing anything and everything to the brink of war and beyond … including ‘developing ISIS’ for their own ends.

    Absolutely nothing surprises me about what the U.S. are capable of, which connects to my first statement – they would NEVER give over to being dictated to by an external authority. !!!

  40. Annie B

    @ Florence … re : ” Anything Abbott does is not as it appears, is not for our benefit.”

    Totally agree. …. Never is, never will be.

    …….

    @ others who have posted comments re “shamed to be Australian.”

    Upsetting to see people who are ashamed to be Australian – It’s an emotional reaction to a horrid situation that we currently contend with – which does – and always will – come back to the incumbent government, who are allegedly calling the shots.

    Australians are not forever ‘bogan’ voters – they only get a chance once every few years to present themselves at the polling booths, and I doubt that some real ‘bogans’ would even bother !! …

    Somehow, we need to re-educate – and that does not start with being ashamed of being Australian. !!

    ,,,,,,,

    If one were to cut out ALL of the rhetoric and inflammatory crap that has been delivered by the alleged leader of this country, except for one thing …. it would be all that is needed to know that he resides in the past, has never matured, has never learned anything whatsoever about life, and frankly is to be ” more completely pitied than condemned “. ( that is an old saying ). … This includes his entire cabinat btw. !

    The tampon tax … much Googling to be had on that one. It’s a total disgrace, but small in comparison to the abhorrent state of affairs, with regards to assylum seekers, and this mongrel governments’ responses to all of it, including the massive $ inducement to Cambodia for a ‘trial’ to take assylum seekers – who would be in positive danger in that country.

    Disgusting beyond words.

  41. mars08

    “What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security…

  42. Denis Hay

    The seems to be many people on this forum and others who are extremely concerned about the direction our country is being taken by our politicians and so called leaders. The real big issue is what can we realistically do to stop this decay and put us on a path that is people focused and treats everyone with dignity, respect and tollerence?

  43. Jollyjumbuck

    “Ashamed to be Australian” I am a very proud Aussie who cares about this country and the future for our children to live in a free society. Bringing in migrants does not mean it will stay free! Especially Muslims. Just who is saying that these children are being victimised by all these countries, where exactly is the proof? For all we know they are probably being victimised by their own bloody people considering the Muslim cultures who go around marrying off children and many other barbaric beliefs they have! So stop holding a gun to Australia’s head and making everyday Australians believe that for some unknown reason it’s our fault that these people are living the way they are! If honest people want to migrate here then that is all fine and good but they come through the front door. One more thing – Where do they get the money from to pay these smugglers in the first bloody place, because they don’t come cheap, getting aboard these boats?

  44. Michael Taylor

    Jollyjumbuck, sorry, but your comment was too disgraceful to respond to. I’m lost for words, however I’m sure that others will find some.

  45. Jollyjumbuck

    I don’t consider my comments to be disgusting and I don’t particularly like your attitude. I speak from my heart and want to see my children and their children have a safe life in this country. Some people never really look deep into matters such as these before they come out with their comments about what Australia’s role is. You never trust any politician, because all they do is lie and lie, especially this poor excuse we have at present of a PM.

  46. Lee

    Where is it written that only people living in poverty can find their lives in danger? I’ve just started reading an autobiography called “Walking Free: The extraordinary true story of a young man who fled war-torn Iraq, came to Australia as a refugee by boat, spent months in a detention centre and went on to become a pioneering surgeon.” by Dr Munjed Al Muderis. A surgeon needed to escape by boat so he did. Many of the Jews who fled or tried to flee the Holocaust were wealthy people. Most asylum seekers come to this country by plane. Do you think they fly here for free or have a currency exchange rate in their favour? They’ve had time to gather their identification papers, wait for the Australian government to process their application and then book a flight here, but they are widely accepted as genuine refugees. So why is someone who comes by boat, who may be unable to wait to obtain all the required paperwork, who may be physically separated by war from their major airport, deemed to be a criminal? I have friends who were “boat people”. They know the journey is dangerous and there is a good chance they will die. They are desperate to escape.

    I also work with several Muslims and I socialise outside of work with some of them as well. I find all of them to be much nicer people than any practising Christian I’ve met.

    The marriage of children is a regional custom, not a religious one. There are non-Muslims in the Middle East who marry as minors too. In Australia, Catholic priests don’t even bother to marry kids before they have sex with them.

    Australia is a signatory to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Our government, whose senior ministers are comprised of several practising Christians, knowingly breach the Universal Declaration of Human Rights on a daily basis. They want to imprison anyone who exposes the criminal behaviour of the people they have appointed to keep asylum seekers imprisoned. Muslims do not have a monopoly on treating other people inhumanely. The fact that Jollyjumbuck can sit here and defend the government’s actions shows that Jollyjumbuck has no moral compass. Your children will one day inherit the filth that you have created. What kind of parent actually wants their children to inherit a world where treating each other inhumanely is the norm? Do you want daily life in Australia to become like life in Afghanistan or the Middle East, where your children can be maimed or killed by irrational hate groups simply for going to school or performing their jobs? Because that is exactly the kind of society that people like Jollyjumbuck are trying to create here.

  47. diannaart

    @Michael Taylor

    I guess we are discovering just how some Australians are justifying torture, detention of children… and more.

  48. Lee

    “I guess we are discovering just how some Australians are justifying torture, detention of children… and more.”

    Yes we are. Under different circumstances I’d find the irony amusing.

  49. Jollyjumbuck

    Phil. I at least have the balls to call it as I see it. Wonder how many of you people commenting here are all just following one another. Why should we all think and agree with what you are all saying. It’s a free country at present and I have a right to say how I feel. I want to see my country safe for the future and for all our children then I have a right to express this. Good day all!

  50. diannaart

    @JJB

    Really? I happen to think for myself and so do the very thoughtful considered contributors to AIMN.

    Easier to just paint everyone how you want to see us?

    Saves you from actually thinking about why we care when innocent people have their lives ruined by being locked into detention camps for the ‘crime’ of fleeing for a better life for themselves and their children.

    Nah, you’re alright Jack – stuff everyone else.

  51. Jollyjumbuck

    I do care about people, but I also care about Australia and it’s people first. I care about the safety of this country in the years to come, not just the here and now!

  52. Lee

    Really? About 85% of Australians think that it is illegal to seek asylum, which is incorrect. The regulars here don’t share that opinion, so we can hardly be accused of being sheep.

    Jollyjumbuck allegedly cares about Australia and its people first. Unless you’re Aboriginal, you or your ancestors came from somewhere else. Our society is comprised of many different cultures, mostly people who came here with the intention of living in peace and having a better life. Studies have shown that most asylum seekers do integrate quite successfully as contributing members of society. Jollyjumbuxk, your racist and bigoted, irrational hatred is not welcome here. I hope that your children are not one day victims of the dreadful, intolerant and hateful society that you and other narrow-minded and ignorant people like you are trying to create.

  53. Michael Taylor

    And you think I’ve got a bad attitude. 😯

  54. Jollyjumbuck

    Oh give it a rest Lee! I do care about the Aboriginals so where the hell did that comment come from? And what exactly has Aboriginals to do with boats and refugees? It seems like anyone who has a comment to make here either for or be against is considered being a racist and a bigot if they don’t agree with you, is that it? LADY YOU’RE NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE!

  55. Lee

    Learn to read, dickhead! If you’re not Aboriginal, either you or your ancestors came here from somewhere else. Why do you have more right to be here than anyone else? You don’t. you’re just a selfish prick.

  56. diannaart

    JJB

    Especially Muslims. Just who is saying that these children are being victimised by all these countries, where exactly is the proof? For all we know they are probably being victimised by their own bloody people considering the Muslim cultures who go around marrying off children and many other barbaric beliefs they have!

    These are bigoted comments. There is all the justifiable reason in the world for these people to flee – do you ever check out news that is not from the MSM?

    Try this: http://www.viralglobalnews.com/world/thousands-refugees-fleeing-middle-east-conflicts-drowning-mediterranean-sea/17152/

    http://www.viralglobalnews.com/world/libya-boat-sinks-killing-over-100-during-dangerous-journey/15218/

    Francesco Rocca, the head of the Italian Red Cross said these tragedies must demand a call to action. He wants officials to “open humanitarian corridors.” Many escaping their countries are doing so to prevent certain death, and the repercussions of war.

    Rocca believes implementing a safe passage would not only reduce the amount of deaths but also hit traffickers.

    Many times boats disappear in the waters, and many are left to wonder how many lives the sea and weak boats have taken. The latest incident draws attention from Italy, who is looking to work with officials to avoid migrants running from fear just to met a tragic fate.

    The point about first nation people is that they were here BEFORE your family migrated here, JJB. Except for these people we are all immigrants.

  57. Annie B

    Great – and diverse – comments here from everybody, excluding JJB who obviously has a problem. Openly hostile, bigoted towards all that HE doesn’t think fit for Australia.

    The words ” especially Muslims – – “stinking Chinese” and a few other equally delightful ( not ) comments from Jollyjumbuck who, it appears, is giving in to fear of the future. Not FOR the future, … OF the future. … There is a difference.

    I thought that was the modus operandi of another immigrant – who came through the front door at 4 yrs of age, on his parents’ $10 APM scheme from England in 1960. …. that immigrant who tries to instil fear into the populace about what ‘could happen’ if we allow these people in to our country …. yet at the same time, when speaking about fiscal matters, decides it is the ‘here and now’ he is concerned with – and not with the future.

    diannaart raised the comments from Francesca Rocca – and that was excellent. ….

    Sadly, the last persons on earth who will ever ‘open humanitarian corridoors’ to refugees in fear of their life, is the current leadership in this country. …. they would prefer to see them all sent to Cambodia ( for a price ) where they would be in even more danger. … And have they indeed paid the traffickers to turn around, thereby ‘stopping the boats’ ? Is that allegation being investigated ? … probably not.

    Also believe that Rocca is correct – safe passage for refugees would reduce deaths and trafficking.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Return to home page
Scroll Up
%d bloggers like this: