Sir ScotchMistery has been taking a long hard look at Australia-China relations and puts forth his opinion.
Disclaimer. The following viewpoints are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of AIMN, its staff or contributors.
It really doesn’t matter how many different ways we look at it, as members of the developed countries of the human race, China does not rate a position on the register of members of that organisation.
It doesn’t matter how many different ways our governments excuse the behaviour of the Chinese in terms of their human rights violations, their lack of respect for various religions or very much else, as a country, irrespective of our appalling government, we should not recognise China as a member of the human race.
Rather, we should see them as an observer community, trying to work out how they can possibly fit in to the organisations of developed countries, and countries which at least have some idea of the value of a human life.
For many years now, Australia has seen the Chinese as a source of income, and very little else.
The natural racism of the Australian, under normal circumstances, writes off Chinese people as those funny little yellow fellows with very few brains, no capacity to invent, but a lot of money in their pocket to spend.
This has been particularly true of the real estate industry, to the point where it was rather good to see the Foreign Investment Review Board, recently decide under the tutelage of Joe Hockey, to tell an Australian real estate company that a Point Piper property had to be resold within 90 days simply because the Australian real estate company had taken upon itself to counsel the Chinese buyer/investor to form a company to buy a property for $39 million, because the Australian government was too stupid to pick up on the fact that some wealthy Chinese had taken it upon himself to decide to invest in the established property market in Sydney.
At last, Joe Hockey appeared, even if only for one moment, to have grown himself a pair of balls.
I am conscious of the capacity for what I write to appear blatantly racist, but at the end of the day the nature of the Chinese is in fact much more racist than that of Australians.
Australians are told that when we hold Asian people to account for the disregard of human rights and civil liberties, those of us who comment upon the nature of the difference are held up not so much as racists, as much as being portrayed as “anti-Asian”, which, ladies and gentlemen, I can assure you I am not.
At some point in the discussion about the nature of the Chinese – Australian relationship on an international level, it needs to be taken into account what we give the Chinese, and in fact most Asians, compared to what they give us in terms of Australians living overseas.
Unhappily-we bend over backwards to make them feel comfortable and at home, whilst in China and the rest of Asia, we are treated as a source of income and absolutely nothing else.
On occasion I’ve taken it upon myself to invite people when commenting about Chinese investors buying property in Australia, to pop over to China or Vietnam or Thailand or damn near any other place in Asia and buy one square metre of that foreign soil. With the only exception I am aware of, being able to buy a piece of land 6’ x 2’ and 6 feet deep, in Thailand, in which one can be buried, there is no capacity at all for Australian to go anywhere in Asia and buy land.
I am at a complete loss as to why an Australian government, of any shade or hue, feels the need to reach out to the Chinese and invite them to Australia to buy whatever land they wish and in so doing, school up our real estate market and send cities like Brisbane and Sydney into an absolute spin in terms of property values.
It is folly to invite the Chinese to come to our country to speculate on land/housing based simply on their ability to produce a $1.99 item whose design is usually stolen from the West, while being supported in their endeavors by successive Australian governments including that funny little Mandarin speaking Labor chap, Kevin Rudd.
As a country, we really are our own worst enemies.
I have often wondered about this myself, and am alarmed at the way we virtually ‘give away’ chunks of Australia willy nilly to countries who do not likewise reciprocate. You also cover many of my other concerns, especially that we are being blatantly used. We give away our best quality foodstuffs and eat second best ourselves, e cannot afford to eat many of the foods we export. We do the same with our in-ground wealth to make a few billionaires even more obscenely rich.
taste? who needs it, ah?
One wonders why.
For goodness sake.
I won’t go on.
But Miglo, this ‘piece’ is beyond the pale. It’s a disgrace!
And correct me if I’m wrong, but did I read that the author evaluates ‘academic’ essays.
Hilarious.
At Andrew Horton and Matters Not:
1) Have you lived in Asia?
2) Ad hominem is not argument.
SSM
What is most concerning is that an ‘academic’ could write:
‘developed countries of the human race’.. Don’t know where to start. So I won’t.
Then we have:
Spot on! It would seem that the author can’t draw a distinction between …
You work it out …
This is an ‘article’ totally lacking in intellectual rigor. More suited to the ‘Bolta’ rather than the AIMN.
Shakes head.
Sir ScotchMistery asked:
No! Have I been there on any number of occasions? Yep! And I’ve been to many more Asian countries than you identify. Will be going again in May/June.
But I’m not sure of the relevance.
(BTW if you want to set up a ‘bar’/brothel’ in Thailand, I can give you a few clues how you can overcome the ‘legalities’. Same for Vietnam.)
Then we have:
One can only agree.
But again the evidence of such an (Ad hominem) approach is lacking.
@ Sir Scotch M …
I have admired many of your posts and responses to many articles on AIM Network.
This article of yours however, I most certainly do NOT admire. … It is blatantly racist, and I am more than surprised that you could have written such an article.
I have to wonder if you wrote it to be quite deliberately controversial and confrontational. ? Because by hell – the article is most certainly couched through-out – in racist terms.
Asia comprises many many countries, big and small. …. your comment : ” ….. >> as much as being portrayed as “anti-Asian”, which, ladies and gentlemen, I can assure you I am not.” …… NOT ?
You might well NOT be ‘anti-Asian’ … but you certainly ARE anti-Chinese. …. Why ? … Why have you separated them out for branding ? … Why not have a go at Indonesia – why not brand Japanese as being ‘not of the human race’ ? ..
I venture to suggest, it is because you cannot stand the Chinese people simply as people – so many of whom have made their homes in this country, and have contributed so very much to it. …. Perhaps you don’t like the idea that they can work their butts off, to make a good living – that they contribute through education into sciences, medicine, research, technology – and a whole lot of other good professions – and so often at the top of their classes ?
Indeed, perhaps you are in fact, filled with envy.
…. furthermore SSM …
I have friends who are full blood Chinese. …. Apart from their ” human ” qualities – i.e. they do make mistakes, they can be wrong, pedantic etc. ( can’t we all ? ) – yet overall, they are friendly, smiling, more than willing to help others, ( which is more than I can say for some ) … they are fun to be with, and they do not try to extract the almighty $ unfairly. …. I speak as I find.
I don’t have to live in China or Asia to know what I see, and how I see it – here. …. and that’s what you are mostly on about isn’t it ? … their effect HERE ?
” Ad hominem is not an argument”. …. No – normally it is not – unless the person delivering the opening addresses for an argument, shows him/herself to be essentially biased, racist and to all intents and purposes – narrow minded. …
Then Sir Scotch, you deserve what you get … ad hominem or not. …. For an academic, you are not thinking through anything too well, are you. !!
You mentioned Chinas’ “human rights violations” …. well pardon me, but you could add ( currently ) Australia under the present government – and many many other countries, to that observation. ,,,, Why not expand your horizons a bit, and list ALL of the countries on this planet, that are at this time in history, perpetrating human rights violations. ….
You started this …. maybe you should finish it with some form of apology. …
But – I rather think that request would fall on deaf ears. !!
Mine is playing jingle bells
“The natural racism of the Australian, under normal circumstances, writes off Chinese people as those funny little yellow fellows with very few brains, no capacity to invent”
China has been the source of many innovations, scientific discoveries and inventions. This includes the Four Great Inventions: papermaking, the compass, gunpowder and printing (both woodblock and movable type).
For a longer list…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_inventions
The vast majority of Chinese students that I have taught have had an amazing work ethic. As a group they get very good results and they are a delight to teach – very appreciative, hard-working and polite.
I do recognise that China has issues to address as does every country but you sell them short on their achievements. And why should they be vilified for wanting to buy property in Sydney? It is our government who sets the rules, not them.
All foreign investment in the real estate sector requires approval from the Foreign Investment Review Board (FIRB). Drawing on FIRB data, research by the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) in June 2014 showed that over the past two decades the value of total foreign investment approvals in the real estate sector has fluctuated between just 5-10 per cent of total dwelling sales. The share rose to between 12-13 per cent in the first three quarters of 2013-14.
Chinese investment approvals are only a proportion of this. Since 2009, the Chinese share of total foreign investment approvals has been around 10 per cent. It’s likely higher right now but that’s hardly surprising coming from such a low base.
It’s time to slay the idea that Chinese money has been behind Australia’s real estate price boom. Maybe then we can begin tackling the real culprits such as cheap credit, limited land releases and tax breaks such as negative gearing.
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2014/10/20/china/dont-blame-chinese-buyers-australias-real-estate-boom
Hardly surprising the Western cultural aspect, the eating of dogs on the menu the rhino horns and the body parts industry of human remains, is it to be forgiven we look with some contempt on such practices.
The government of China is one thing, Its people another. I dont think one sale is making much of a difference.
While the author here laments the Chinese buying of real estate in Sydney, say, in other parts of Oz we are happy to ship to China millions of tonnes of this country in the form of iron ore and coal.
At least the Chinese – or any other overseas buyer of real estate – does not cart the property overseas. Never mind that overseas people have bought up Oz real estate ever since European settlement.
So here we have the cry that we need more overseas investment, but not from the Chinese. Sounds like the C21st economic form of The Yellow Peril!
I can’t even…
Sure, China has a dreadful human rights record, but many in China will concede that progress is slow in China, they value stability over conflict, and that is the only reason the Chinese tolerate the Communist Party, and even the Communist Party knows that their time will come in-front of the wall.
Are Chinese and Asians in general racist? No more so than anyone else is, and no less.
I think who wrote this article forgets that China has been a unified country long before the West was in-fact the West.
China’s economic future, and Asia’s in general isn’t as fantastic as people make out to be, but, they’re here to stay, and we do need to learn to navigate in what is a vital part of Australia’s future.
Apart from that, I believe who ever wrote that article needs to apologize for lowering the usual quite respectable tone of the AIMN.
This harms the credibility of this publication.
What was the point of this racist rant?
It got us all talking. For some it has been a challenge, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be talked about.
The attacks I’m ignoring, because it just means you aren’t thinking about what was actually behind what was said.
The whole point has been achieved. We come in here and listen to ourselves whinge from the left, about the right, but leave anything out of the discussion that has anything around it that is controversial. We are afraid to comment. We are afraid to address any issue the right don’t see. We are afraid of our own voices.
Well I think this is a place not to be afraid to be uncomfortable. I think this is a place to actually talk about stuff that gets up your/our nose/s. It isn’t wrong to create discussion. What’s wrong is to say “the discussion shouldn’t occur”, because seriously, this country’s biggest problem is that we aren’t honest, about almost everything. We literally lie to ourselves, to maintain our comfort zone. We aren’t truthful about anything that actually matters.
We refuse to discuss domestic violence for no good reason, but we still don’t have it there on the table being poked and prodded. We don’t raise a single voice, likewise, about Cubbie Station http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubbie_Station but that’s okay. Selling the farm used to be just an expression. Not any more.
We do business with China (the country not the people) with no capacity to limit or manage what they bring in or take out. We do business with them in spite of a human rights record that makes Tony Abbott look like a saint, and the Jesuits perfect in an almost perfect world. So who do I hate now Annie B?
Now I have finished reading the bit you wrote after you had the cup of tea, and I will happily restate. You’re quite wrong about me. In fact you’re even more wrong than those twits who came in earlier. You miss the entire point of what I wrote. But that’s okay.
There’s a link below to YouTube. Watch the whole thing, then come back and have another go.
Just for the record, I was/am being controversial and confrontational, but not for the reasons you think.
In fact I am asking all of us to address issues we are uncomfortable with, about an issue that has me being called a racist, by folks who know nothing about me, and I have to note that includes you, Annie, and whilst I am pleased you admire some of my work, I didn’t write it to garner your admiration. I wrote it to put a burr under your saddle blanket, and everyone elses. Why are we as correspondents and adherents to AIMN so afraid of being bruisingly honest, among ourselves?
I am confused why the likes of MattersNot,and his pal, answer in the affirmative of their knowledge of Asia, and then put “he’s an academic” on the table, as though (even if that were the case), I would have to maintain a position based on outstanding rigour. Neither addressed the issue I raised, and one, in Carmody-like understatement noted “this is racist”.
How does that remove the need for discussion?
Watch this, end to end, and then come back and comment. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bi92jR9nUQ
SBS this week, had yet another article on the same issue. It’s not a secret, never has been, we just choose to ignore it because of the net economic impact of deciding not to trade with a country that does that. We don’t stand up for those principles due to cost. Unlike deciding not to shop at the local fish shop after the guy was interviewed by police after being accused of sexual assault/harassment. That’s entirely different isn’t it?
Or is it.
And CMMC, what trite claptrap – harms this publication? Racist rant? Make a comment fine, now back it up. Or are you just another Iain Hall?
Thanks for the clarification Sir. You are right some stuff just isn’t discussed. Some stuff is too counter to PC and like you why post stuff that every one agrees with? Best to challenge the status quo and move things along.
I had actually written the below as a response and in the spirit of your last will now do so.
Last night I thought this was a joke post – I mean how could anyone be so naive? China has elevated hundreds of millions of people out of relative poverty in a few decades. It has done more for the human rights (jobs, prospects, health, housing, standard of living etc) of its people in a short space of time than any nation ever in human history. Sure it’s not perfect – no country is but they are working it out. They will do it without us and without our lecturing and interference. And I for one wish them (as a country) well.
The so called developed nations as Mr ScothMisery calls them have bullied destroyed harassed and massacred millions of people in less developed countries in recent years but fortunately China has not yet become a party to that sort of madness. In fact it should be hoped that they act as a counter balance to the ruthless efforts of Empire (and its sock puppets) and help to discourage further western adventures that impoverish so many countries today.
Let me assure you Sir ScotchMistery, when it comes to posting on blogs, I have no ‘pals’.
It’s ‘ideas’, or lack of same, that I am interested in.
I post under a pseudonym (as do you, I assume) for that very reason.
It’s ‘ideas’ I want to discuss. Pure and simple.
Sir S M
While I agree that some people ( myself included ) often do not speak quite as honestly and openly as they might like – here and on other independent media …. in many cases it is because they do not wish to offend – or start a verbal punch-up ( which gets nobody anywhere ).
I absolutely call you out on several matters, and I am going to be very ‘honest and open’ in my remarks.
I note you have addressed me twice by name, and Matters Not and CMMC once each. In your reply, you go on to make further challenges and give a few not so pleasant little digs as you address me with the following :
…… ” So who do I hate now Annie B?”
Nowhere in my two posted comments did I refer to hate or use the word ‘hate’. … I did use the words ‘racist’ ( which many commenters also have ) .. ‘biased’; ‘narrow-minded’; … suggested that you ‘certainly are anti-Chinese’; and I ‘ventured to suggest you cannot stand Chinese people, as people’. …. Yep I said all that.
… And if you have translated that to the word ‘hate’ ( your word, not mine ) … then so be it.
________________
…… “You’re quite wrong about me.” … I actually do not have an opinion of you one way or another, I was simply addressing what you had written, and replying ( like everyone else here has ).
________________
….. “In fact you’re even more wrong than those twits who came in earlier. “ ….
So I am lower in your estimation, ‘more wrong’ than the ‘twits’ which is your perception of some others’ ‘earlier’ remarks ? –
– – How very nice of you. …. !!
_______________
….. “You miss the entire point of what I wrote. But that’s okay.” …. condescending comments in every respect. Not appreciated – and certainly not necessary.
….. ” ….. an issue that has me being called a racist, by folks who know nothing about me, and I have to note that includes you, Annie, and whilst I am pleased you admire some of my work, I didn’t write it to garner your admiration.”
I have no wish to know anything about you, personally, and I am not touching the remainder of your comment there.
_______________
….. “There’s a link below to YouTube. Watch the whole thing, then come back and have another go.” …. “have another go” ??? …. about what ? …. A video made on or for a Chinese ( Phoenix ) TV Network, begun in 1996 to ‘express the voice of Chinese to the world’. ?
I was a little surprised that China would allow such a thing. … the open broadcasting of the voice of Chinese to the world … ??
_______________
I taught with a man whose family is a legend in the town and his father’s father’s father’s father emigrated from China.
Over the last 40 years we have grown from under 20000 to 200000.
People from GB and the WASP/WASC Australians being unable to tell the difference between Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese or Korean even if they speak, usually ask him where he comes from.
These same people wouldn’t ask the rabbott such a question.
Perhaps sir scotch missed the FTA signed by robb? What little that has been released makes good reading.
A couple more comments – Sir Scotch …
Ref. the video link you provided –
The video was posted by httpchinhphapcom’s channel – YouTube http://www.youtube.com. It is subtitled in American English ( easily recognised ), and voiced over by an American, as you well know. ….
And apparently the Phoenix network embraces share holdings by several Western countries’ large communication enterprises.
Just last November a protest was held in Canberra by people who practice Falun Gong ( which is not tolerated in China – by Chinese authority ). …. The protest is reported here : http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-18/falun-gong-explainer/5899150 – and does not shy away from reporting the harvesting of human organs from live ( forced ) donors – which is an absolutely repulsive and ghastly practice. … China however, is not the only country that commits atrocities – as you know. You unfortunately wrote – as though they are.
,,,,,,,,,,,
On re-reading your remarks, one of your comments was rather odd and you addressed ALL here with it – .
…. “The attacks I’m ignoring, because it just means you aren’t thinking about what was actually behind what was said.”
Are we to be mind readers ? How can anyone ‘think’ constructively about a subject, if there are other meanings behind what is written / said ? especially in a debating forum … come out into the open and say what you mean. …
I do acknowledge poetic licence and also see that you have used it in your article. Fair enough, but perhaps not for a public forum. …. That’s just my opinion.
Just for the record, I was/am being controversial and confrontational, but not for the reasons you think. … you presume a great deal to know ‘what I think’.
,,,,,,,,,,,,
End of ….
By the way – I drink coffee !!
Well, we do only “lease” our ports and infrastructure for 99 years (sort of a Hong Kong thing) so, eventually, they’ll be “repatriated.”
I still don’t regret the discussion going on, but I would ask that it be clearly noted that I am not “picking on” one person over another. Annie B you made 2 posts, which I responded to in separate parts of my answer to delineate the pieces.
There appears a growing concern about “lowering the overall tone of the place” but little by way of supporting notes. Comments per se, are not rebuttals, merely comments.
In terms of your view Annie, re whether it’s racist. I actually haven’t said it isn’t racist, and constantly advising that it is, actually doesn’t address the point. The tenor of the article has racist overtones from a purely PC perspective, and I openly admit that. It’s when folks suggest I am (racist) for laying a particularly awful card on the table, which as noted earlier, you have no idea about whether I am or not.
(Not @ Annie) I am not saying the article isn’t racist, I’m merely pointing out that no one knows enough about me from this article, to draw the conclusion that I am. What amuses me, is that no one is decrying the point, merely the tenor of the article, which is just a bit silly. For example, there are only 4 people on this entire forum, that know whether I am Chinese or not. They haven’t spoken.
The last point in fairness, that I will address to you Annie, is your conclusion in your 11:47 PM post on the 14th inst, that I hate Chinese people. I showed it to the minister for finance, who exploded to such a degree that her scotch only just missed my keyboard. It took her hours to stop sniggering about what a devious bugger I can be. As for envious.. I’ll just leave that alone.
At Kaye Lee, true enough – they have invented many things over the years. iPhones, Tablets, phablets, gunpowder, fireworks, large walls, instant death penalty. The list really is quite long isn’t it? I suspect Steve Job may have had a thing to say about the invention of the iPhone, but hell, what would I know.
In terms of teaching – where did I decry the people as individuals in what I wrote? In terms of property purchase, that comes from a place of deep sensitivity for me anyway. The government makes the rules and big end real estate agents say “that’s an easy law to dodge – make a company”. By the way, the point about the government making the rules then ends up with the BHP’s and the Murdochs employing high powered accountants to find ways to flout the rules. Your point is valid, it just misses the main thrust of my point about selling the farm. I still note you don’t address the issue of the video, which at least Annie B did. For how long do we say “poor little China”?
The guest opines at 11:12 AM on the 15th, about the “yellow peril”. I clearly stated that the issue of real estate purchase in Asia, was “in Asia” that we (any “not from that country” person with the exception of Chinese people in Thailand) can buy real estate. That is a pure and simple fact. My knowledge comes from living in Asia for 11 years. I speak an Asian language fluently. It doesn’t change my view. I would point out that it is mainly Chinese investors getting into the real estate here. Not the Thais not the Vietnamese. Occasionally there are Japanese buyers, but the main buyers are the Chinese.
RC notes:
But at what cost to our humanity, as we buy and sell and rent and give away, what has been worked for. We sit back and enjoy the $1.99 shopping spree and give obeisance to the party, and say nothing at all about their human rights abuses. In so doing we surely, are complicit?
And the detractors, one after another, accuse me of racism, but ignore the point I am making.
In short, the nay-sayers are taking the position; “They are developing, they are getting there, they are so big it’s slow, and completely supporting the myriad of processes employed by the party, to destroy countries – Tibet for one and there are others. Destroy people – Falun Gong are just one example.
But that’s okay… they’ll make it one day.
@ SSM …
I have read – and re-read – ( several times now ), your article, in an endeavour to find your message. There is something hidden there ( by your own admission ) … and I am searching for that. ….. Dumb nut that I am.
I am still wondering ( to a degree ). … but I figure you are using lexical semantics. ??
No-one who knows me well – family, friends would EVER think that I don’t like a damned good argument or a bloody good debate. … A few commenters to AIM would also realise the same. ….. But that is neither here nor there.
I did not accuse you of outright hatred of Chinese. ( perhaps a moot point and belonging in a debate on semantics ?? ) … I observed you were ‘anti-Chinese’ … and ‘that you cannot stand Chinese people, as people’. …. If you are Chinese yourself, then say so. …. be truthful about it – it would bring a whole new meaning and understanding to your article. . If you are not Chinese, also say so … reveal yourself – and a proper debate might be able to be had ? D’ya think ?
– – – – –
There is a person in our neighbourhood who many try to avoid. … She nails people to the wall ( metaphorically speaking ), always with her latest rants to the Council ( they have banned her from their office, and from one-on-one contact with their employees, requiring that she tenders her many complaints to the Council – in writing only ) …
I personally “cannot stand ” ( being with – in the street ) this person .. but I do NOT hate her. … by no means do I hate her – if anything I feel sorry for her ( which is never actually helpful btw ). … I just don’t like being bailed up and shrieked at, with anothers’ problems with our Council. … Hate does not come into it, dislike and bias does not come into it. … It is a little bit of self-preservation, and a desire to get on with my own day, that has me avoid the situation ( if I can ).
Does that help you to get my meaning now – on that point alone ?
– – – – – –
Furthermore – in my endeavours to truly understand your article – – – I raise the following :
” For many years now, Australia has seen the Chinese as a source of income, and very little else. … The natural racism of the Australian, under normal circumstances, writes off Chinese people as those funny little yellow fellows with very few brains, no capacity to invent, but a lot of money in their pocket to spend.” ( is that the Yellow Peril of the 50’s revisited ? )
I cannot agree at all. … But then, I cannot speak for all Australian people. … however, the current Australian government would most likely see them exactly this way – and in no other way. … As far as I am concerned, the Australian government and the Australian people, are poles apart – in every aspect. ( except for the absolutely die-hard Liberal mob, who most likely are following their forebears adamant dictates to ‘always vote Liberal’ .. !! )
As for ” very few brains ” ?….. that is a very greasy comment. – – – Their work ethic ( as Kaye Lee noted ) … is exemplary – – – and their contributions to our scientific, medical and research endeavours, priceless. …. The Chinese have contributed much to our country, ( including their $1.99 knock-offs from the West – which are reasonably comparable in standard ! … and do not exploit us in the hip pocket / purse – the way so many other ‘western’ style merchandise outlets do. ) … That’s the Chinese being inventive btw !
~~~~~~~
For the sake of realty ? you would turn your back on the Chinese contributions to this country, especially when that has only been ” successive Governments’ who have exploited the $ factor ? …. I am surprised at those implied comments.
I could make this one of the longest comments in AIM history, if I were to go over many other comments in your article, but decline.
It is obvious you enjoy a ‘debate’ … as do I, but I have to now put a personal end to this.
~~~~~~~
I hope your “Minister for Finances’ scotch was not a Glen Fiddich !! … That would truly be a waste that I could not imagine. But I am glad it missed your keyboard. 😉
http://www.brw.com.au/p/sections/fyi/aussie_expats_living_large_in_asia_4V6L4uSYPpJ5o7a2zZdlZN
Drawing your attention to the above …
It shows that Australians can ( and do ) live in Asian countries – and most likely buy property there ( why would Asians decline that ? ) … I know of at least 3 people ( yeah – small no. I know ) who have successfully purchased more than an inch of land in Asian countries !!
Referencing : Sir SM’s comment in his article : “>>> there is no capacity at all for Australians to go anywhere in Asia and buy land.”
???
Annie hi. I read it. Then read it again, and again, and nope – not a single reference to “buying land in Asia”.
Plenty about living there, and I’ve done that for almost 11 years, in fact I met my wife there.
At no time did I refer to living in Asia as a problem. I referred to buying land there. Several times in fact.
So, back to your research I guess.
And as a counterpoint, I had a long discussion yesterday with a lawyer, discussing the article. 3 hours in fact. His perspective, which I happen to strongly agree with, is make it a dual carriageway. If I can buy land in your country of origin, you can buy land in mine, if not, forget it.
For the record, an expat can buy a condo in Thailand in his/her/their own name. They CANNOT buy land. They have to form a company with 51% Thai ownership, and the COMPANY can then buy land. That land is 51% owned by the Thai portion of the company. And the company owns the land, not the shareholders.
And my deep thanks for the ad hominem, which you will note and not give credit for, in respect of your attacks on me. The article, absolutely fair game. Me, well sweetie, you don’t even have the first foundation clue about me. Also my sincere apologies for conflating your words “envy and cannot stand” Chinese people, into “hate”. So many less letters but I accept the point.
When your comments are actually based on your own experience, rather than your perceptions of others views of their experiences, as discussed with you over your preferred aperitif, then comment away. In the mean time, perhaps not so much. I have clear doubts about your friends buying “land” as opposed to condominiums in some countries, as noted earlier. Land and condominiums are quite different things, and I have no issue with the sale of condos here, I have to say, but didn’t earlier, since we have been “discussing” land purchases. Note this: http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-buying-land.php
I guess the last comment I will make, is that I truly have no idea why I wouldn’t let the minister for finance drink Glenn (note the 2 “n’s” in Glenn Fiddich, if she so desires? She is quite the grown up and likes to pop out and purchase Scotch as and when the mood takes her. She has her own money, and sometimes borrows from me or I give her my wallet since that removes any issues as to who drinks what and when.
Not Chinese, for the record.
SSM
Sir Scotch Mistery … …. I still think we have been thrashing through semantics here.
But first, let me clarify something – very definitely : ( and quoting )
You – – – “You’re quite wrong about me.” …
Me – – – ” I actually do not have an opinion of you one way or another, I was simply addressing what you had written, and replying ( like everyone else here has ). …
You – – – ,,,,, Annie, and whilst I am pleased you admire some of my work, I didn’t write it to garner your admiration.”
Me – – – “I have no wish to know anything about you, personally,”
You – ( your most recent post ) – “well sweetie, you don’t even have the first foundation clue about me.” …
I think I made my disinterest in you personally, fairly plain in all the above !! Didn’t I ? I am honestly, only interested in debate ,,,,,,,,,, So that’s that – out of the way.
~ ~ ~ ~
Ref : property – –
Me : ” It shows that Australians can ( and do ) live in Asian countries – and most likely buy property there ( why would Asians decline that ? ) etc. “
Please note the word “property” … unfortunately I denoted it as ‘land’ as well, at the time of my comment.
Well – land is property – and property is ‘belongings’ … so I withdraw the reference to ‘ land ‘, specifically, IF it is seen as a piece of defined area, with or without growth – ( trees, grass, fencing etc. ) … and built upon – or not built upon. ?? The meaning of words gets a little confusing at times. Land ( in Australia ) is considered to be an area, purchased or purchasable, upon which to build or grow crops / livestock – whether or not it already has a building upon it. The purchase of a home is considered ( under insurance considerations ) to be home AND land.
Insurance cover however, is mostly ‘home and contents’. Damage to the ‘land’ – that piece of acreage / dirt with foliage and or buildings – can be covered ( by some insurers ) against natural disasters such as earthquakes,, bush fires etc. ( I think the Banks do that on mortgage considerations ) … There is quite likely some other possible nasties to ‘land’ ( especially in large tracts of it for farming ) that specifically relate to fencing,, poisoning or damage to the soil making it unusable, undisclosed easements ( if a purchaser or their solicitor has not done their homework properly ), and other specifics that I have not researched at this time – nor do I intend to.
You : “And as a counterpoint, I had a long discussion yesterday with a lawyer, discussing the article. 3 hours in fact. His perspective, which I happen to strongly agree with, is make it a dual carriageway. If I can buy land in your country of origin, you can buy land in mine, if not, forget it.
I agree with that. ….. It should be Quid pro quo? … If Asians can buy tracts of land – for improvement or building, or removing the existing building(s) and rebuilding here – then we should be able to do the same, there. And you are right – ( I have researched it ) …. most Asian countries if not all, do not offer that exchange.
You : ” In the mean time, perhaps not so much. I have clear doubts about your friends buying “land” as opposed to condominiums in some countries, as noted earlier. Land and condominiums are quite different things, and I have no issue with the sale of condos here, I have to say, but didn’t earlier, since we have been “discussing” land purchases. Note this: http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/thailand-buying-land.php
That link relates to Thailand – and I accept that. …. I also accept it likely applies to ALL regions in the Asian Pacific. They are not fair in their attitudes – I accept that to be the case. Condominiums / apartments / flats , do not however, hover in thin air – they are established on land. How that ‘land’ is denoted in the contracts of sale – for condominiums – is anybodys’ guess. And it is not something I care to follow. However, I do admit my 3 friends do own ‘condominiums’ which they rent out to tourists in the ‘on’ season. They possess wads of paper that denote their ownership of these condominiums – built on land. ….
However, you made the following comment in your article :
…… ” invite them to Australia to buy whatever land they wish and in so doing, school up our real estate market and send cities like Brisbane and Sydney into an absolute spin in terms of property values.
It is folly to invite the Chinese to come to our country to speculate on land/housing ” …..
You do not define ‘land’ specifically. You cite ‘property values’ and ‘speculation of land/housing’. In other words ‘property’ … ( which is how, I believe, it is described on a Title of ownership ). Perhaps someone, super legally qualified, should denote what is ‘land’, what is ‘property’ and what is ‘housing’ ? Just a thought.
I should have checked my wee ( 200 ml ) bottle of Glenn ( double N ) Fiddich which I have sitting in my kitchen cupboard, given to me for my birthday. An ‘ooops’ in the spelling thereof. !! … Also have a 200 ml of Chivas Regal. .. Both of which will last longer than I will last myself !!
I don’t believe I made any ‘attacks’ on you ( on re-reading my comments ) … if you read it all that way – ? it has to be in your own comprehension – and certainly not in my intent.
Thank you though, for your detailed considerations, in your well thought out replies. …… Have a good day and enjoy your Glenn Fiddich ( it’s a great Scotch drop ).