The relevance of Tony Abbott

September 27, 2015
Written by: The AIM Network
64 Replies

The relevant Tony Abbott (image from afr.com)

By Paul G. Dellit

Now That The Lunatic Is No Longer In Charge Of The Asylum . . .

That’s unfair. Tony Abbott neither is nor was a lunatic. In the view of this writer, he was, at least as far as his Prime Ministerial persona was concerned, a brawling, misogynistic, serial-lying, duplicitous, incompetent, inarticulate, graceless buffoon. And he sought to mask all of these character traits with slogans and repetitions of slogans, and repetitions of repetitions of slogans said with animus as if to imbue them with the gravity they lacked . . . but he was not a lunatic.

We could go on, well into the night, reciting the many failings of this man in the role of Prime Minister and in the role of sensitised human being – but it would avail us nothing. It is not often wise to quote Senator Eric Abetz – in fact it is frequently impossible to quote the good Senator accurately, given the number of extra syl-lie-bles he finds for each word – but he said it all, ruby cheeked and trembling of hand, when asked about his prospects of a Ministerial position post Abbott. “The king is dead . . .”, he said. He didn’t add, “bur-i-ed, and cre-may-ted”. He didn’t need to. Former Prime Minister Abbott is now relevant to the current political scene in Australia only insofar as he is the exemplar of how not to do it.

However, it seems that life’s reversals are not learning experiences for Anthony John Abbott. He has already broken a post-Prime Ministerial promise to go gently into the night. He was, as he would have it, the victim of external forces, not personal failings, just as was Peta, she said, victimised because her name wasn’t Peter, even though she was responsible for the LNP winning the 2013 election.

But the purpose if this article is not to indulge in necrocide. Nor is it, in Shakespearean terms, to bury Tony Abbott without praise. And here I must crave your indulgence. The purpose of this article is to praise our most recently deposed Prime Minister.

It is easy to consider that man as little more than political carrion, but he did render a service to us for which we must be eternally grateful. It was for the fact that he was true to himself. From beginning to end, he was a shining beacon for right wing extremists in Australia (and Canadia). He gave them the status of having one of their own occupying the highest political office in the land. He gave the timorous within their ranks the courage to openly express their inner voices. He gave them licence to propose the policies and schemes, hitherto concealed, by which they would seek to transform Australia. And he gave them the belief that he had within his power the means to pursue those ends on their behalf. In short, the praiseworthy service Tony Abbott rendered to Australia was to expose the agenda of our extreme right wing while at the same time unwittingly laying IEDs along the road to their ultimate defeat.

Some of you may remember my article in May of this year, ‘Australian Democracy at a Tipping Point‘ which argued that Prime Minister Abbott was setting about the abolition of the rule of law and, given his way, would replace it, step by step, with rule by unchallengeable Ministerial fiat. The ratio decidendi of Ministerial decisions and the evidence upon which they were based would be kept secret, with any disclosure without Ministerial permission punishable by law. This attempt by the Abbott Government has largely been stymied by the effects upon the Senate of the outcries of respected lawyers and large sections of the public. While the rump of this Abbott initiative remains in play, a preponderance of legal opinion has it that these remnants to the original bill, if passed, would be struck down by the High Court. We seem to be out of danger on this score for now.

However, there are many precedents for democratic governments being overthrown by right wing movements. Their first item of business after gaining power is to restructure government in ways that would fit comfortably alongside the challenges to democracy proposed in the original Abbott bill. Had circumstances been different, had those with ultimate power in Australia decided they wanted that bill passed into law, its passing would have set a precedent for other such laws to follow. A clever strategist could then have set about introducing small changes, none of which would seem so egregious as to warrant a revolution, but by accretion would, like boiling frogs by raising the water temperature slowly so that they become inured to change, kill our Westminster system of government.

Minister Dutton and others attempted to promote the original Abbott bill by assuring the public that the LNP would never abuse the power it gave them. Yet there is evidence that even without the power of that bill passed into law, the extreme right wing abuse what power they do have.

A recent FOI request revealed a case in point: A man of some power and influence within business and politics in Australia, Maurice Newman, used that power and influence to arrange for The Australian newspaper to launch an attack upon the Bureau of Meteorology (BoM). The willingly complicit Murdoch press manufactured evidence to claim that that the BoM had manipulated and falsified data to suit a left wing climate change conspiracy. With this campaign of misinformation successfully launched, Maurice Newman had provided the excuse for his close friend, Tony Abbott, to launch a Prime Ministerial foray into the data gathering and analysis functions of the BoM. The nature and tone of his intervention was manifestly designed to intimidate the BoM into toeing the Abbott/Newman climate change denial line – clear evidence of an attempt to smother science with extreme right wing ideology.

More importantly, the attempt to manipulate the work of the BoM demonstrated Prime Minister Abbott’s propensity for using the power of the Executive to covertly exert anti-democratic influence upon role of the Public Service to provide “frank and fearless advice”. How many other attempts, successful or otherwise, might he have made to pervert the fundamental principles upon which our system of democracy is based? We may never know, but, on balance, we don’t have to care. If there are further examples to be unearthed, they will be because, by his own actions, he has ensured that he will not be around to covertly carry them through. His interference with the BoM was undertaken before he had rendered the FOI legislation impotent. And all of his other assaults upon democracy in the prosecution of his extreme right wing agenda were committed before he had shored up his defences against the democratic backlash that was ultimately his undoing:

The appointment of his benefactor, Dyson Heydon to run the TURC (This is not to say that a TURC was not justified, whatever Abbott’s motives for creating it, but Dyson Heydon’s appointment ensured that the partiality of the Commissioner and his commitment to causing as much mud as possible to stick to the ALP was never in doubt).
The appointment Bronwyn Bishop (nee Setright) as a highly politicised Speaker.
Reposing in his unelected Chief of Staff the extraordinary executive power to control the actions of elected representatives, including Ministers, culminating in the directions issued from her Office which resulted in Border Force officers roaming the streets of Melbourne with the stated intention of randomly stopping and questioning members of the public under pain of arrest.
And of course, the law, passed with the supine collaboration of the ALP, that threatens whistleblowers with imprisonment for following their own professional standards and obligations – a law that allows the most egregious abuses of the human rights of people under the Government’s control without any legal means of exposure.

So I for one am grateful to Tony Abbott for dragging the extreme right agenda into full public view and epitomising, Pauline Hanson-like, the kind of irrational, ideologically driven, callous people who would prosecute it if they had the chance.

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Yvonne CunninghamSeptember 27, 2015 at 2:19 pm

If Abbott was of so little consequence, why do you keep writing about him. Please move on.

Pingback: The relevance of Tony Abbott – » The Australian Independent Media Network | lmrh5

vivienne29September 27, 2015 at 3:05 pm

Abbott was of no good consequence Yvonne. It is wise to be reminded of his ghastly agenda, for the record.

Michael TaylorSeptember 27, 2015 at 3:14 pm

Yvonne, if you don’t like us writing about him, then feel free to bypass the article.

John FraserSeptember 27, 2015 at 3:28 pm

Great Article.

On my visit to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom in the Magna Carta section I was able to leave a note that said :

"Australia has dumped Prime Minister Abbott because he attempted to usurp Magna Carta".

In the Courtroom favoured by most of the Supreme Court Judges, sandblasted onto both sides of a glass partition are the words of Eleanor Roosevelt :

"Justice cannot be for one side alone but must be for both".

JF posted from London, England.

brickbobSeptember 27, 2015 at 4:03 pm

This is a well written intelligent article on the danger of not thinking before casting our vote,and i believe we all should be constantly reminded of how close we came to be ruled by a dictator and a bunch of dangerous far right fanatics,so keep on writing and never let us forget. ”” Well done.”

John LordSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:09 pm

The answer to Yvonne’s question is. “Lest we forget”

kerriSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:17 pm

I agree with you Paul Dellit that the lasting legacy of Anthony John Abbott MUST be that we remember and learn to NEVER again let this type of politics destroy our way of life.
But I disagree with your assessment that Abbott is not a lunatic!
Who in their right mind would put the pedal to the metal with the car in reverse?
Santamaria was a lunatic raving on on TV and way too humoured and accepted for his backwards conservatism!
His acolyte is no better!

georgepSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:49 pm

Paul – I’m sure your heart was in the right place, and that you made some worthy comments subsequently, but I baulked at the sentence: “The purpose of this article is to praise our most recently deposed Prime Minister.”

Every fibre of my being refuses to let me read further. In my mind there is nothing, NOTHING! that man did, or could do, that is faintly praiseworthy.

I want to read your perspective. I really do. But more so I want to keep alive this little rage that burns inside whenever I remember that slimy toad that nearly took us back to the brink of 1950. Please don’t take that away from me with your fancy logic and reason. Please!

Paul G. DellitSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm

Dear georgep, I think you will find that all that follows that sentence will fan the fire of your rage all the more. Abbott’s service to us was that he brought the extreme right wing out into the open, made targets of them, and then led them to take cover in the abyss.

AndreasSeptember 27, 2015 at 6:27 pm

This man has taken us to within a whisker of full-blown fascism; we should be eternally grateful for the quick and resolute response by the good people of Melbourne in their mass protest against the proposed Border Force showing. But, although Abbott and Abetz are gone, there’s no time to relax as the fascists are still at work…

georgepSeptember 27, 2015 at 6:30 pm

OK Paul – I’ll have another go. No promises though…

Neil of SydneySeptember 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm

The answer to Yvonne’s question is. “Lest we forget”

I do not understand comments like that because that is my opinion of the Rudd/Gillard govt not the Abbott govt.

I see the people smugglers know that we have a new PM. I am sure they will test his resolve. The great benefit of stopping the boats is that we can now take refugees from all over the world rather than those who make it to Indonesia with $5-10 thousand dollars.

crypt0September 27, 2015 at 8:44 pm

So abbott and a few others are gone … good riddance.
But … at the end of the day it’s still the same old right wing conservative LNP.
The lesson i learned from “truth overboard is as follows …
“To believe one word they say, is to make your first mistake.”
I don’t think you require examples … they are legion.”

Paddy ForsayethSeptember 27, 2015 at 9:25 pm

Neil: Wouldn’t it be more honest and more humane just to torpedo the ‘boats’?

Neil of SydneySeptember 27, 2015 at 9:46 pm

Neil: Wouldn’t it be more honest and more humane just to torpedo the ‘boats’?

These boat people are not leaving persecution in Indonesia. They have safe haven. Furthermore they have a reasonable amount of money.

Under Howard we took our refugees from all around the world. Remember the Sudanese refugees we took under Howard? Under Labors system their only hope of getting accepted in Australia is to make the trip from Africa to Indonesia and then cough up $5-10 thousand dollars which would be a lifetime earning for someone from the Sudan.

More honest and humane was Howards Pacific Solution which you people dismantled creating all these problems.

RoswellSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:15 pm

These boat people are not leaving persecution in Indonesia. They have safe haven.

I think you need to talk to some of them Neil. They won’t agree with your comment.

And I’ll try one of your tricks: can you please come up with the evidence that they have safe haven?

mars08September 27, 2015 at 10:22 pm

Yes… “safe haven”… because that’s really all that anyone needs for a good life and a healthy future for their children.

RoswellSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:26 pm

I can’t quite decide whether Neil is an understudy to Andrew Bolt or Miranda Devine. He emulates both. He sprouts unsubstantiated rubbish.

Anybody else here just as sick of him as I am?

harshmindSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:28 pm

Excellent, well-written and argued article. I think Turnbull can only be an improvement but how far he is able to pursue his personal beliefs (and what they really are) remains to be seen. Meanwhile the ALP better scrub up.

Carol TaylorSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:34 pm

Neil, I do believe that “you people” was via a resolution by the High Court of Australia..a radical group.

lawrencewinderSeptember 27, 2015 at 11:33 pm

Rabid-the-Hun as the stormtrooper (as Miranda Devine so lucidly and for once honestly explained) has achieved much as the Ugly American, Murdoch & IPA’s best office boy in setting Australian democracy back about 60 years. That none of this will be repealed is the worry now…. Labor needs to stand up !

keertiSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:10 am

“as sick of neil as …” absolutely! While I believe in people being able to put their view, I do expect them to be reasonably informed and intelligent about it. About time for automatic ‘moderation.”

mmc1949September 28, 2015 at 1:28 am

Yes – please moderate NoS.
It sharpens our minds and arguments to be presented with reasoned alternative viewpoints, but that isn’t what NoS has ever shown himself capable of offering.

Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 3:58 am

to Paul G Dellit – – – –

As far as the written word goes, this article is without fault. It is well constructed and a delight to read – but only as an opinion.

I have to disagree on some points. … First, as far as I am aware, we have not quite gone as far as adopting the American way of referring to former Presidents as “Mr President” and have not applied it to a former Prime Minister in our own country …. so Anthony John Abbott, here, should not have and does not deserve any title. You have referred to him as Prime Minister Abbott – but only once – ( once too many.) Perhaps just a moot point !!

He is plain old Tony Abbott now — and having not been seen yet on the back-bench ( he is too busy clearing away unwanted stuff from wherever he was – ( it’s his wife Margie who is moving stuff around from Kirribilli House ) … even that brought out the reporters and cameras to cover the “event” showing him in knock-about clothing and a baseball cap, filling the boot of his car. He has been chased down to the surf for a further rendering of “none of this was my fault ” and a verbal lethal weapon he pointed at Morrison – for all to hear.

What is it about this man that has so many people remaining under his gaze and power ?

He is last week’s news, and I – and so many others – still see so much written and spoken about him. …. While he did indeed, unwittingly of course, drag the true brutish ideologies of extreme right wing politics to light – in the worst ( or maybe best ) way – which is something none of us with half a brain will ever forget, he also acted so irresponsibly on so many matters, that again we will not forget …. We tend not to forget the best, and we definitely tend not to forget the worst. …. A simple fact of human nature.

Yet here he is – still in the news. …. Surely he has not got some form of pizzaz that could be similar to a top line movie star ??? He draws attention !! ….. I do not understand it.

As for him not being a lunatic — again I disagree, only from the definition of what a lunatic is, according to 4 on-line sources ( including well referred dictionaries ). My own well thumbed Oxford dictionary gives the plural ” the more eccentric or visionary adherents of a political or other movement ” – – ” outrageously foolish” and (law – under lunacy ) “mental unsoundness as interferes with civil rights or transactions”. So – he was in the strictest definition of the word – a lunatic. Because he certainly did all THAT. … Even Wikipedia describes it ( in part ) : “dangerous, foolish or unpredictable; conditions once attributed to lunacy.”

So – in the strict sense of the meaning of the word – he has been a lunatic, even to begin with. How far he may have progressed to real madness – I would not like to hazard a guess.

I know worse has been used to describe him, even in your own writings here.

Is it this unpredictability that has the media still turn up for almost every move he makes ? … Is he so very newsworthy ? …. I venture to suggest he is not, and should be left as he is – an ordinary bloke, relegated to the back bench of the H of R, to which he has yet to show his face. The only time he has fronted Parliament since “D” day, was to deliver his concession speech. Otherwise he has been conspicuous by his absence.

Can’t we just put him, his life, his blunders, his former statements, and any brick-bats or bouquets that have been thrown his way — onto the furthest back-burner ?

Not just “Lest we forget ” — but “Let us forget” ( him ), however, never forget the mess his LNP ministry caused in 2 years of misery and uncertainty in Australia.

Remains to be seen now, just how ‘far right’ the new Prime Minister will ACTUALLY go, and whether he will continue with the misery etc.

But that’s an entirely NEW subject.

neil barclatSeptember 28, 2015 at 5:00 am

Neil of Sydney… I have read your comments regularly… I have to say…. You really are a cu.t. Not in a good way. I hate saying that world. Every time I do I hope my wife slaps my hear for saying it but in your case it is apt…. You are so far up the lnp far rights ass the only thing you could be is that. You never try to provide a balanced judgement like most other people on this site – you only try to show how shallow and narrow minded you are. If you serious had a view of showing how poor both sides of politics are you would identify the failings of the current government however you wont. All you will do is off half assed piss poor comments about a shitty piss poor government who we all know failed. Instead of offering constructive criticism about what both parties could achieve all you can do is ignore the current governments failings and criticize the previous government. If your serious then lets hear your challenges to Abbott and Turnbull. But no you wont – because all you are is a shallow reflection of what is wrong with oz. A small minded imbecile who thinks the opinion makes a difference – mate take your tea part views and shove them where they really need to be seen – up the backside of the 10% of the population with their racist misogynistic homophobic views who think Hitler is a god. I understand this probably wont be posted moderators but the guy needs to be pulled into line ?

Michael TaylorSeptember 28, 2015 at 7:20 am

I’m definitely sick of him.

Neil of SydneySeptember 28, 2015 at 7:58 am

Neil, I do believe that “you people” was via a resolution by the High Court of Australia..a radical group.

I do not recall the High Court saying the Pacific Solution was illegal. I thought thought it was Labors Malaysian Solution that was declared illegal. And it was Labor and “you people” who abolished the Pacific Solution creating all these problems.

And I’ll try one of your tricks: can you please come up with the evidence that they have safe haven?

I have never seen any reports of asylum seekers having trouble in Indonesia. But you people have never come up with a number on how many asylum seekers we should be taking. If we do not stop the boats we could be getting 100,000 boat people every year.

Sir ScotchMisterySeptember 28, 2015 at 8:07 am

“Supine” to lie face up, essentially one assumes, to see what’s coming.

The position taken by the current ALP in most situations is not supine. It is anything but. In fact,the leader of the ALP tends to lie in a foetal position, hoping eventually it will all go away, and he will reach the heady heights of being seen as someone with balls, simply by accident.

Perhaps again, the slow boiling of frogs analogy is pertinent, since the number of people who shout that ALP is the “alternative” without noting the rest of the expression.

I believe the ALP is now definitely the Alternative; the Alternative Liberal Party, that is. Shorten is no more a leader in terms of Australia’s needs than Abbott ever was. What is clearly needed, is a fresh start, and I am of the view that using the electorate of Indi, wouldn’t be a bad place to use as a starting point.

Sir ScotchMisterySeptember 28, 2015 at 8:08 am

Forgot to subscribe – getting old.

FelicitasSeptember 28, 2015 at 8:08 am

Why is Abbott still in the news? Why was Rudd when Gillard took over? In Gillard’s case it was the ‘faceless men’, in Abbott’s it’s Murdoch and his influence – can’t wait for the reprisal when Mal-baby is thrown to the wolves in favour of the Rabbott, just to show that the anointed one (in Murdoch’s mind) is restored to his ‘rightful’ place. Then maybe we the people can toss the lot of them out at the next general election. Oh how lovely to live in interesting times!

mars08September 28, 2015 at 8:09 am

Andreas:

This man has taken us to within a whisker of full-blown fascism…

Sadly, far too many frightened, angry, ignorant Australians were/are quite willing to go along with him.

LozSeptember 28, 2015 at 8:23 am

I worry that with Abbott gone and with him that big black cloud that hovered over us for two years, the Australian people will be dazzled by Turnbull’s public persona. Thankfully enough people woke up to the fact that the previous government, by stealth or otherwise, was determined to destroy our democratic rights and hopefully we will again bring this government to account if they continue with the same rhetoric and policies. Very good article Paul.

Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 9:15 am

Thank you, Annie B. I enjoyed reading your analysis. It reflects much that I agree with and also draws a number of conclusions that provide us with an opportunity to keep the discussion alive.

On the question of “Prime Minister Abbott”, it is semantically correct to refer to the title someone held when they undertook a particular course of action. It was “Prime Minister Abbott” who moved against the BOM, not “former Prime Minister Abbott”. He would not have been able to act as he did if he did not contemporaneously hold that office. The usage there has nothing to do with an honorific convention.

The definitions you prefer for the word “lunatic” demonstrate the richness of our language. I used it in the medical sense of a “mentally ill person”, quite deliberately, because I believe that Tony Abbott is not mentally ill and therefore bears an unmitigated responsibility for his actions. He was and remains, in my view, culpable for much of the harm he did to this country and its people, and to other countries and to the people of the world. We may say that he has been, throughout his public life at the very least, blinded by ideology, but I believe that his is a wilful blindness, the blindness of a man who would deny the undeniable rather than summon the courage to admit that he was wrong. A ready example of this are the prominent public figures who came out early with the unequivocal claim that anthropogenic climate change is bad science and fundamentally wrong. I am not aware that any of these people, who elbowed their way into the spotlight early in the game, have now had the humility and the dedication to and respect for science to admit they were wrong. Their prejudices and egos are more important to them than the truth.

It a fortnight since Tony Abbott was removed from office. I believe that we should be allowed the time to exhale and regain our composure, after the traumatic experience this man and his minions have put us through, by rehearsing the evil that we have now escaped. But even after these past two years have become the stuff of distant bitter personal recollection, we should never forget the lessons that this moment in our history has taught us, for those who ignore the lessons of history are destined to repeat that history. Prime Minister Abbott will take his place in the history books along with all of our other Prime Ministers, but I share the view of former Prime Minister Frazer, that he was potentially the most dangerous man ever to have held that office.

Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 10:04 am

TURC would have performed wonderful if had extended the terms to include employers and industry. Yes, there is much corruption in the industries being target. One can’t accept a bribe without someone else offering it.

Michael TaylorSeptember 28, 2015 at 11:48 am

Neil, you are both pathetic and irrelevant. Please go away.

Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 11:55 am

Maybe Shorten should extend TURC. Be clever extend it to include employers and the industries involved. After all a bribe has to be made, for one to accept it. Yes, there is much corruption to be found. Not all in the unions. One can only imagine the outcry if he did. Of course it should at the same time he announces setting up a federal ICAC

Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:00 pm

Yvonne, do not fear, we are also keeping eye on the new PM. We on this site can do many things at once. Many.

Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:07 pm

Dear Neil,
This is what I believe. People, wherever they come from, would prefer to live in their own homes amongst their own people within the milieu of their own culture. The mass movement of people from their homes is seen by them as the last resort – conditions at home have become intolerable due to threats to their safety or poverty and both of those are predominantly caused by political upheaval and/or corruption. In short, refugees are largely the victims of circumstances over which they have no control. When they come to a place where they can find safe haven, they will stay. They will not risk their lives and the lives of their families for nothing more than a material upgrade.

“Stopping the boats” has not fixed their problems but it has prevented refugees from being fooled by people smugglers into believing that they will provide them and their families with safe passage to Australia. They seek to leave Indonesia because it has neither the means nor the inclination to provide them with tolerable living circumstances. Indonesia has always been viewed by refugees as a transit country for this reason. And Indonesia wants to keep it that way, lest it be swamped by a refugee influx.

So off-shore processing of refugees has served a useful purpose to that extent. But now it has become off-shore warehousing of children, women and men in detention centres under arrangements concluded by the current Government which makes that Government complicit in egregious violations of human rights that amount to physical and physiological torture. And all of this has now been shielded from the public gaze by the current Government passing a law, with the gutless complicity of the Shorten Labor Opposition, which imprisons anyone who blows the whistle on their criminal negligence.

There is absolutely no need to torture people to stop the boats. If the Government cannot find a solution to the retention of refugees off-shore for extended periods, the Government has an obligation to ensure that those people are treated humanely. There is no first world excuse for not treating our fellow human beings with the dignity to which we are all entitled.

Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:13 pm

I, like Abbott learnt about politics from the rantings of Santamaria and one we no longer hear of, Eric Baume. Even voted DLP. Soon woke up that they were leading me down the wrong path. At no time could I stomach Menzies. Had this funny idea my father, being a cocky would have voted country party. Wrong on that one too.

Abbott’s trouble is, he never grew up. Stayed struck in his adolescence.

He had not learnt from what has happened now. Two interviews over weekend , repeating what he has for two years. Out over the weekend, with local fire brigade. Plenty cameras present.

Attempting to rewrite history one could say. One thing Abbott has never done, is forgive any who act against him. Not in his psyche.

Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:15 pm

Neil, that boat was ready to sale long before Turnbull. When questioned, they knew nothing of change government. Not the first lately.

Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:16 pm

We do not have a new government. We have a new PM. We will have a new government I hope after the next election,

Neil of SydneySeptember 28, 2015 at 12:32 pm

But now it has become off-shore warehousing of children, women and men in detention centres under arrangements concluded by the current Government

I thought the detention centers were built by the Labor govt. There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007 so no need for Manus Island and Nauru.

But Howard got it right with the Pacific Solution. We stop the boats and takes the refugees we chose. In an unjust world it is the best way.

Stopping the boats means we can take refugees from troubled areas like Syria.

People, wherever they come from, would prefer to live in their own homes amongst their own people within the milieu of their own culture.

Wrong. Lots of people want a better life. We have immigration programs who want to come here for a better life. That guy who was killed on manus Isand, Reza Berati could not get a job in his profession so he risked his life by boat to get a job in Australia.

stephengb2014September 28, 2015 at 12:43 pm

I think it essential that we never forget Abbott and his extremist views of which he was implementing as fast as he could.
It is also essential to remember that a number of his cabinet still remain in cabinet. Indeed Ministers such as Morrison, Susan Ley, Bernard, Dutton and others (whos names escape me at the moment) are just continuing as if Abbott was still there, having lost no time in demonstrating that the previous idiology of the Abbott government are being pusued with equal vigor, as if Abbott were still there.

This tells me that Turnbull, is more of a problem because if he convinces these Ministers to be more subtle, in the zealot pursuet of their idiology, we will not see so easily the damage that neo conservative idiology can do. And if the politically aware, can’t see it coming, what hope the vast majority of those people who are not so politically aware?

Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 2:49 pm

Neil. At least I tried but your response is a mixture of obfuscation and illogical rationalisations. Who built the detention centres is irrelevant. The current Government is managing them in ways that perpetrate crimes against humanity. Your rationale for Reza Berati deciding to risk his life is either an insult to the intelligence of AIMN readers or an accurate reflection of your own. Respond to this if you like, but I will no longer waste my time on dialogue with you.

RichardSeptember 28, 2015 at 2:54 pm

What a horribly written, vile and vindictive article. What volunteer work do you partake in Paul G. Dellit? What assistance do you provide to your community, other then to spew out this poorly articulated venom?

When I reached the bottom of this article and saw the “donate” button I just laughed. No, I’ll put my money in a poker machine instead, at least there I’m presented with the possibility that I might get something of worth out of the endeavour.

RoswellSeptember 28, 2015 at 3:36 pm

“Vile and vindictive” sums up your own comment.

Michael TaylorSeptember 28, 2015 at 4:02 pm

Richard, Andrew Bolt has written an article today that might be more to your liking.

Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 4:05 pm

Ah, Richard. Well as a matter of fact, I am involved in a community based voluntary organisation. But I am sorry that you found my article too close to home. At least you can take comfort in the knowledge that I am floored by the devastating logic of your response. Why argue your case when you are obviously so practised in ad hominem insults?

corvus boreusSeptember 28, 2015 at 4:25 pm

Richard is to be commended on his philanthropic work feeding coin donations to poker machines. Every single dollar helps keep our poor struggling gaming industries afloat.

Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 9:42 pm

@Richard … You have missed 100% of the points here …. ah well, so be it.

If you believe your money is better spent, pouring it into poker machines ( I speak as a former player of poker machines – until I WOKE UP ) … then good luck to you. Your belief you will get ‘something worhwhile’ out of the endeavour, translates to living in a fools paradise.

You will be filling the greedy purse of the gaming industry – which allegedly ‘assists’ our economy.

Yeah – right !!!!!!!!

…….

@ Corvus …. coins went out with button up boots — it’s all now ( apparently ) big bucks in paper form. And I would like to see the stats. on how much anyone actually gets, that is worthwhile and helpful, from the gaming industry.

Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 10:05 pm

@ Paul G. Dellit …. re your comment ( September 28, 2015 at 9:15 am )

Thank you for your explicit and more than ample reply. I respect and appreciate that very much.

Still cannot fathom this former PM’s allure ?? …. is he just a train wreck waiting to happen – and the media ( who live by the mantra ‘ if it bleeds, it leads’ ) — await some ‘event’ surrounding Abbott ? … It IS possible they are doing just that. … The general media, is lower on the scale than the old ‘car or insurance salesman’ imho.

As for him being mentally ill – I am not a psychiatrist, and even if I were, could not, from afar – make any kind of diagnosis, or projected possibilities as to his mental state. Mental illness walks a very thin line …. some are, and are not seen as such – and some are not, yet are deemed to be mentally defective ( or mentally ill ) …. There have been thousands of blunders in history, on that score.

I think perhaps the words ‘mentally defective’ might suffice in this instance. The former PM Abbott, displayed much of this – to the casual and not so casual, observer. And finally, I believe, his ministry woke up to the fact that they had a loose cannon at the head of things.

Whichever way it cuts, he was not qualified in any way whatsoever, for the job that he took on.

One could feel sorry for him on that score. …. On the other hand, he welcomed it with open, power-hungry arms. …. Abbott’s personal anguish is his, and his alone. And he has to find a way to deal with it – if he is capable of doing such a thing.

Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 10:23 pm

@ N of S ….

I think you dropped yourself right in it ….

Your comment : “I thought the detention centers were built by the Labor govt. There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007 so no need for Manus Island and Nauru.” … yes, the Labor government was in power then. …. Funny that. eh ???

Anyway – Correct.

Which leaves one wondering about all the ‘stopping of the boats’ …. and the resultant much much larger numbers of refugees now held on Manus and Nauru, by the current Government who treat these asylum seekers like shit, and keep looking for countries who will accept more refugees ( as long as we do not have to hold them on our own shores ) …. To have approached Cambodia with mega $$$$$$$ …. was reprehensible — ( and even that didn’t quite work out – did it ? – not yet anyway ) ….

I would suggest you might get more satisfaction, and some good debate on your specific ideals from the following – providing that is, you have a Facebook page. If you don’t I suggest you get one …

https://www.facebook.com/LiberalPartyAustralia?fref=ts

Good luck with all that N of S !! 😉

silkwormSeptember 29, 2015 at 1:06 am

Richard and Neil are to be commended for bringing more right-wing lunacy to light. And they should be banished, just as Tony Abbott has been.

Mark NeedhamSeptember 29, 2015 at 9:15 am

Let us, never enter the realm of a contra view.
When it does appear, always treat it with utter contempt.
For we, are right.
They are wrong.
I have never been wrong.
I am always right.

Says,
Mark Needham

Florence nee FedupSeptember 29, 2015 at 12:35 pm

As far as the economy goes, it matters not whether money is poured into a poker machine or not. Keeps people working, keeps money moving. Not so for a society. How money is spent, or as I would rather say invested is important. That is if one wants a fair civil society.

Paolo SopraniSeptember 29, 2015 at 3:55 pm

Neil of Sydney. Rubbish. The asylum seeker ‘invasion’ is confected nonsense. It does not exist. It is made up. Very, very few people attempt voyages from Indonesia by boat. It is as important as sand erosion on beaches. All fantasy land designed to frighten the less well informed with hints of terrorism and ‘they are not like us’ boogie man tactics. Wake up.

Dom FammartinoApril 17, 2016 at 7:44 pm

andrew bolt my names dom fammartino can i be of the show please “I Can Change Your Mind About Recognition,”in 2017 i love indigenous history

Domenic fammartinoOctober 17, 2016 at 6:19 pm

TONY ABBOTT was a man of strong values and morals – too strong for a politition it seems in this day and age. Unlike the Labor low lives that he took over from who destroyed all they touched and abbott had to fix which made his acheivements even greater.

A leader to moral for the job, he done more for australia in two years than the last two Labor prime ministers achieved in six. Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard two labour train wrecks left us with record deficits after blowing billions on rubbish — on overpriced school halls, “free” insulation that killed and destroyed people, green schemes that collapsed and were a disaster, “stimulus” checks to the dead. The list goes on..Two of the worst prime ministers in history with no leadership qualities or values.

They opened our borders to 50,000 illegal immigrants and drowned 1200. Then hyped up the false global warming scare and forced us to pay a stupid over the top carbon tax just to pretend they were saving us. Everything they touched turned into a disaster.

TONY ABBOTT stopped the boats, curbed spending, scrapped the useless carbon and mining taxes, made us safe from terroism, and had australia running smoothly and made our nation respected from countries abroad.

The australian people were fooled by a bias corrupt media that did all they can to report false unjust articles about a man who is humble and respectfull and loves his country. All the great things he achieved were taken for granted and not appreciated.abbott is a selfless man who gets out there anongst the people and sacrifices for his country.

Have a look at all the trouble we are in now with the boats the spending and terroism. Take a look at the diabolical safe schools program. The list is endless. None of these issues would be here now if tony abbott was still leader and wasnt knifed and the inept malcolm turnball put in his place thats a fact. Its a lesson to all australians that judge a man by his deeds and what he achieved. He had peta credlin as an adviser who had so much talent experience and even she was vilified unfairly. We as a nation all regret it now and only have ourselves to blame.

Annie BOctober 17, 2016 at 9:27 pm

Considering your foray Domenic, into this particular debate is over a year old, it may be old hat, but is still relevant. …

But your comments are peculiarly, wrong … imo.

Taking just one ( ONE ) item in your post – ref. the deficit ‘inherited’ from the Labor administration.

Since the LNP took over the running of our country they have managed to double, said deficit – and many ( politicians, financial wizards, ordinary bods who can figure it out etc. etc. ) …. claim that to be a tripling of the deficit, since the LNP took over. Let’s stick with doubling it — not a good thing whichever way you care to look at it – eh ?

Not one word from you, about how Labor managed to steer us through the worst global economic downturn ( the GFC ) …. without losing our credit rating, or with little impact on us as a well run country.

Then again, I would not expect you to acknowledge such a thing.

As for Abbott being a man who is ‘ humble and respectful ‘ …….. ??? … Well, humble he ain’t – ever … but there may be a few odd occasions that he showed some respect -somewhere, particularly when it suited him to do so.

However, you – as I and other commenters here, have every right to an opinion – it was an interesting read from you, about the ‘other side of the tracks’ … the opposite view – lauding loudly, the LNP. ….

But, considering recent history in our current government, I think now the subject is done with.

……….

silkwormOctober 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm

The stupid is strong in this one.

Domenic fammartinoNovember 21, 2016 at 10:59 pm

Tony Abbott did not only win one election, he won two. Rudd won by a landslide but Abbott would have been the next PM if he would hand power to Oakshott, Windsor and Wilkie or the Greens. He refused. Then he won overwhelmingly in his own right. His greatest opponent was inside his own party though and orchestrated massive bias fabricated media campaign against his boss. Eating an onion was now a crime against humanity. After losing control of our borders, Labor and the greens said it was impossible to stop the boats.

Tony Abbott stopped the boats and done many other great things for australia.

He achieved what Labor and the greens said was impossible. The left are scared stiff of Abbott. Notice how many lefties come out to try and bag him when the possibility of his return to Cabinet let alone PM is mentioned.(Some with new blog names pretending to be conservatives as well as some old names we have not heard from for a little while.) As for the galaxy poll done prior to the election that concluded that Abbott would have lost the election if PM, well I know that it was deliberately designed to get the answers it wanted. It was totally rigged similar to clintons recent polls in america enough said.

By the way Abbott still achieved around 62 percent of the vote in his own electorate on a two-party party preferred basis,that’s only a negative swing of 3.2 percent.
If you thought the media hate campaign against Abbott was way over the top when he was PM, can you imagine the hate campaign waiting for him, if he dares to return again?? The difference now is australia have woken up and the media bias will only go in abbotts favour again ill mention trump as an example.

And recent history shows that these hate campaigns really do work but i think the public are much more aware of the corrupted bias left media now I MENTION TRUMPS win again proved that and pauline hansons popularity proves the same thing. The lefts lies have sunk and the truth is rising. ILL TELL YOU THE REAL REASON THE LEFT ARE SCARED OF ABBOTT. . because he will strengthen our boarders, he is a christian there afraid he will fight union corruption, afraid he will cut spending, afraid he will do the hard yards for the good of the country, afraid he is a good decent respectfull man, afraid he his not scared of a fight and afraid he WILL show the left for what they really are , a bunch of lying ,backstabbing hypocrites. JUST LIKE TRUMP HAS ACHIEVED IN THE UNITED STATES.

So of course Tony Abbott would have won easily. His two years were a spectacular success, marred only by Turnbull’s sniping through his ABC. Now Turnbull can live in the mess they created. Unfortunately we all have to suffer so one CORRUPT FAILURE of a man can live his own artificial dream. BUT MARK MY WORDS TONY ABBOTT IS NOT GOING ANYWERE HE WILL BE BACK DOING WHAT HE DOES BEST BEING A GREAT LEADER OF THE PEOPLE THATS WHO ABBOTT IS IT COMES NATURAL TO HIM.

Michael TaylorNovember 21, 2016 at 11:04 pm

I’m speechless.

Florence nee FedupNovember 22, 2016 at 1:22 am

Abbott didn’t win two elections. Gillard was duly elected according to the Constitution. If the independent hand power to Abbott, he would have immediately went to an election, thwarting the will of the voters.

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Yvonne CunninghamSeptember 27, 2015 at 2:19 pm

If Abbott was of so little consequence, why do you keep writing about him. Please move on.
Pingback: The relevance of Tony Abbott – » The Australian Independent Media Network | lmrh5
vivienne29September 27, 2015 at 3:05 pm

Abbott was of no good consequence Yvonne. It is wise to be reminded of his ghastly agenda, for the record.
Michael TaylorSeptember 27, 2015 at 3:14 pm

Yvonne, if you don’t like us writing about him, then feel free to bypass the article.
John FraserSeptember 27, 2015 at 3:28 pm

<

Great Article.

On my visit to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom in the Magna Carta section I was able to leave a note that said :

"Australia has dumped Prime Minister Abbott because he attempted to usurp Magna Carta".

In the Courtroom favoured by most of the Supreme Court Judges, sandblasted onto both sides of a glass partition are the words of Eleanor Roosevelt :

"Justice cannot be for one side alone but must be for both".

JF posted from London, England.
brickbobSeptember 27, 2015 at 4:03 pm

This is a well written intelligent article on the danger of not thinking before casting our vote,and i believe we all should be constantly reminded of how close we came to be ruled by a dictator and a bunch of dangerous far right fanatics,so keep on writing and never let us forget. ”” Well done.”
John LordSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:09 pm

The answer to Yvonne’s question is. “Lest we forget”
kerriSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:17 pm

I agree with you Paul Dellit that the lasting legacy of Anthony John Abbott MUST be that we remember and learn to NEVER again let this type of politics destroy our way of life.
But I disagree with your assessment that Abbott is not a lunatic!
Who in their right mind would put the pedal to the metal with the car in reverse?
Santamaria was a lunatic raving on on TV and way too humoured and accepted for his backwards conservatism!
His acolyte is no better!
georgepSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:49 pm

Paul – I’m sure your heart was in the right place, and that you made some worthy comments subsequently, but I baulked at the sentence: “The purpose of this article is to praise our most recently deposed Prime Minister.”

Every fibre of my being refuses to let me read further. In my mind there is nothing, NOTHING! that man did, or could do, that is faintly praiseworthy.

I want to read your perspective. I really do. But more so I want to keep alive this little rage that burns inside whenever I remember that slimy toad that nearly took us back to the brink of 1950. Please don’t take that away from me with your fancy logic and reason. Please!
Paul G. DellitSeptember 27, 2015 at 5:58 pm

Dear georgep, I think you will find that all that follows that sentence will fan the fire of your rage all the more. Abbott’s service to us was that he brought the extreme right wing out into the open, made targets of them, and then led them to take cover in the abyss.
AndreasSeptember 27, 2015 at 6:27 pm

This man has taken us to within a whisker of full-blown fascism; we should be eternally grateful for the quick and resolute response by the good people of Melbourne in their mass protest against the proposed Border Force showing. But, although Abbott and Abetz are gone, there’s no time to relax as the fascists are still at work…
georgepSeptember 27, 2015 at 6:30 pm

OK Paul – I’ll have another go. No promises though…
Neil of SydneySeptember 27, 2015 at 7:17 pm

The answer to Yvonne’s question is. “Lest we forget”

I do not understand comments like that because that is my opinion of the Rudd/Gillard govt not the Abbott govt.

I see the people smugglers know that we have a new PM. I am sure they will test his resolve. The great benefit of stopping the boats is that we can now take refugees from all over the world rather than those who make it to Indonesia with $5-10 thousand dollars.
crypt0September 27, 2015 at 8:44 pm

So abbott and a few others are gone … good riddance.
But … at the end of the day it’s still the same old right wing conservative LNP.
The lesson i learned from “truth overboard is as follows …
“To believe one word they say, is to make your first mistake.”
I don’t think you require examples … they are legion.”
Paddy ForsayethSeptember 27, 2015 at 9:25 pm

Neil: Wouldn’t it be more honest and more humane just to torpedo the ‘boats’?
Neil of SydneySeptember 27, 2015 at 9:46 pm

Neil: Wouldn’t it be more honest and more humane just to torpedo the ‘boats’?

These boat people are not leaving persecution in Indonesia. They have safe haven. Furthermore they have a reasonable amount of money.

Under Howard we took our refugees from all around the world. Remember the Sudanese refugees we took under Howard? Under Labors system their only hope of getting accepted in Australia is to make the trip from Africa to Indonesia and then cough up $5-10 thousand dollars which would be a lifetime earning for someone from the Sudan.

More honest and humane was Howards Pacific Solution which you people dismantled creating all these problems.
RoswellSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:15 pm

These boat people are not leaving persecution in Indonesia. They have safe haven.

I think you need to talk to some of them Neil. They won’t agree with your comment.

And I’ll try one of your tricks: can you please come up with the evidence that they have safe haven?
mars08September 27, 2015 at 10:22 pm

Yes… “safe haven”… because that’s really all that anyone needs for a good life and a healthy future for their children.
RoswellSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:26 pm

I can’t quite decide whether Neil is an understudy to Andrew Bolt or Miranda Devine. He emulates both. He sprouts unsubstantiated rubbish.

Anybody else here just as sick of him as I am?
harshmindSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:28 pm

Excellent, well-written and argued article. I think Turnbull can only be an improvement but how far he is able to pursue his personal beliefs (and what they really are) remains to be seen. Meanwhile the ALP better scrub up.
Carol TaylorSeptember 27, 2015 at 10:34 pm

Neil, I do believe that “you people” was via a resolution by the High Court of Australia..a radical group.
lawrencewinderSeptember 27, 2015 at 11:33 pm

Rabid-the-Hun as the stormtrooper (as Miranda Devine so lucidly and for once honestly explained) has achieved much as the Ugly American, Murdoch & IPA’s best office boy in setting Australian democracy back about 60 years. That none of this will be repealed is the worry now…. Labor needs to stand up !
keertiSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:10 am

“as sick of neil as …” absolutely! While I believe in people being able to put their view, I do expect them to be reasonably informed and intelligent about it. About time for automatic ‘moderation.”
mmc1949September 28, 2015 at 1:28 am

Yes – please moderate NoS.
It sharpens our minds and arguments to be presented with reasoned alternative viewpoints, but that isn’t what NoS has ever shown himself capable of offering.
Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 3:58 am

to Paul G Dellit – – – –

As far as the written word goes, this article is without fault. It is well constructed and a delight to read – but only as an opinion.

I have to disagree on some points. … First, as far as I am aware, we have not quite gone as far as adopting the American way of referring to former Presidents as “Mr President” and have not applied it to a former Prime Minister in our own country …. so Anthony John Abbott, here, should not have and does not deserve any title. You have referred to him as Prime Minister Abbott – but only once – ( once too many.) Perhaps just a moot point !!

He is plain old Tony Abbott now — and having not been seen yet on the back-bench ( he is too busy clearing away unwanted stuff from wherever he was – ( it’s his wife Margie who is moving stuff around from Kirribilli House ) … even that brought out the reporters and cameras to cover the “event” showing him in knock-about clothing and a baseball cap, filling the boot of his car. He has been chased down to the surf for a further rendering of “none of this was my fault ” and a verbal lethal weapon he pointed at Morrison – for all to hear.

What is it about this man that has so many people remaining under his gaze and power ?

He is last week’s news, and I – and so many others – still see so much written and spoken about him. …. While he did indeed, unwittingly of course, drag the true brutish ideologies of extreme right wing politics to light – in the worst ( or maybe best ) way – which is something none of us with half a brain will ever forget, he also acted so irresponsibly on so many matters, that again we will not forget …. We tend not to forget the best, and we definitely tend not to forget the worst. …. A simple fact of human nature.

Yet here he is – still in the news. …. Surely he has not got some form of pizzaz that could be similar to a top line movie star ??? He draws attention !! ….. I do not understand it.

As for him not being a lunatic — again I disagree, only from the definition of what a lunatic is, according to 4 on-line sources ( including well referred dictionaries ). My own well thumbed Oxford dictionary gives the plural ” the more eccentric or visionary adherents of a political or other movement ” – – ” outrageously foolish” and (law – under lunacy ) “mental unsoundness as interferes with civil rights or transactions”. So – he was in the strictest definition of the word – a lunatic. Because he certainly did all THAT. … Even Wikipedia describes it ( in part ) : “dangerous, foolish or unpredictable; conditions once attributed to lunacy.”

So – in the strict sense of the meaning of the word – he has been a lunatic, even to begin with. How far he may have progressed to real madness – I would not like to hazard a guess.

I know worse has been used to describe him, even in your own writings here.

Is it this unpredictability that has the media still turn up for almost every move he makes ? … Is he so very newsworthy ? …. I venture to suggest he is not, and should be left as he is – an ordinary bloke, relegated to the back bench of the H of R, to which he has yet to show his face. The only time he has fronted Parliament since “D” day, was to deliver his concession speech. Otherwise he has been conspicuous by his absence.

Can’t we just put him, his life, his blunders, his former statements, and any brick-bats or bouquets that have been thrown his way — onto the furthest back-burner ?

Not just “Lest we forget ” — but “Let us forget” ( him ), however, never forget the mess his LNP ministry caused in 2 years of misery and uncertainty in Australia.

Remains to be seen now, just how ‘far right’ the new Prime Minister will ACTUALLY go, and whether he will continue with the misery etc.

But that’s an entirely NEW subject.
neil barclatSeptember 28, 2015 at 5:00 am

Neil of Sydney… I have read your comments regularly… I have to say…. You really are a cu.t. Not in a good way. I hate saying that world. Every time I do I hope my wife slaps my hear for saying it but in your case it is apt…. You are so far up the lnp far rights ass the only thing you could be is that. You never try to provide a balanced judgement like most other people on this site – you only try to show how shallow and narrow minded you are. If you serious had a view of showing how poor both sides of politics are you would identify the failings of the current government however you wont. All you will do is off half assed piss poor comments about a shitty piss poor government who we all know failed. Instead of offering constructive criticism about what both parties could achieve all you can do is ignore the current governments failings and criticize the previous government. If your serious then lets hear your challenges to Abbott and Turnbull. But no you wont – because all you are is a shallow reflection of what is wrong with oz. A small minded imbecile who thinks the opinion makes a difference – mate take your tea part views and shove them where they really need to be seen – up the backside of the 10% of the population with their racist misogynistic homophobic views who think Hitler is a god. I understand this probably wont be posted moderators but the guy needs to be pulled into line ?
Michael TaylorSeptember 28, 2015 at 7:20 am

I’m definitely sick of him.
Neil of SydneySeptember 28, 2015 at 7:58 am

Neil, I do believe that “you people” was via a resolution by the High Court of Australia..a radical group.

I do not recall the High Court saying the Pacific Solution was illegal. I thought thought it was Labors Malaysian Solution that was declared illegal. And it was Labor and “you people” who abolished the Pacific Solution creating all these problems.

And I’ll try one of your tricks: can you please come up with the evidence that they have safe haven?

I have never seen any reports of asylum seekers having trouble in Indonesia. But you people have never come up with a number on how many asylum seekers we should be taking. If we do not stop the boats we could be getting 100,000 boat people every year.
Sir ScotchMisterySeptember 28, 2015 at 8:07 am

“Supine” to lie face up, essentially one assumes, to see what’s coming.

The position taken by the current ALP in most situations is not supine. It is anything but. In fact,the leader of the ALP tends to lie in a foetal position, hoping eventually it will all go away, and he will reach the heady heights of being seen as someone with balls, simply by accident.

Perhaps again, the slow boiling of frogs analogy is pertinent, since the number of people who shout that ALP is the “alternative” without noting the rest of the expression.

I believe the ALP is now definitely the Alternative; the Alternative Liberal Party, that is. Shorten is no more a leader in terms of Australia’s needs than Abbott ever was. What is clearly needed, is a fresh start, and I am of the view that using the electorate of Indi, wouldn’t be a bad place to use as a starting point.
Sir ScotchMisterySeptember 28, 2015 at 8:08 am

Forgot to subscribe – getting old.
FelicitasSeptember 28, 2015 at 8:08 am

Why is Abbott still in the news? Why was Rudd when Gillard took over? In Gillard’s case it was the ‘faceless men’, in Abbott’s it’s Murdoch and his influence – can’t wait for the reprisal when Mal-baby is thrown to the wolves in favour of the Rabbott, just to show that the anointed one (in Murdoch’s mind) is restored to his ‘rightful’ place. Then maybe we the people can toss the lot of them out at the next general election. Oh how lovely to live in interesting times!
mars08September 28, 2015 at 8:09 am

Andreas:

This man has taken us to within a whisker of full-blown fascism…

Sadly, far too many frightened, angry, ignorant Australians were/are quite willing to go along with him.
LozSeptember 28, 2015 at 8:23 am

I worry that with Abbott gone and with him that big black cloud that hovered over us for two years, the Australian people will be dazzled by Turnbull’s public persona. Thankfully enough people woke up to the fact that the previous government, by stealth or otherwise, was determined to destroy our democratic rights and hopefully we will again bring this government to account if they continue with the same rhetoric and policies. Very good article Paul.
Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 9:15 am

Thank you, Annie B. I enjoyed reading your analysis. It reflects much that I agree with and also draws a number of conclusions that provide us with an opportunity to keep the discussion alive.

On the question of “Prime Minister Abbott”, it is semantically correct to refer to the title someone held when they undertook a particular course of action. It was “Prime Minister Abbott” who moved against the BOM, not “former Prime Minister Abbott”. He would not have been able to act as he did if he did not contemporaneously hold that office. The usage there has nothing to do with an honorific convention.

The definitions you prefer for the word “lunatic” demonstrate the richness of our language. I used it in the medical sense of a “mentally ill person”, quite deliberately, because I believe that Tony Abbott is not mentally ill and therefore bears an unmitigated responsibility for his actions. He was and remains, in my view, culpable for much of the harm he did to this country and its people, and to other countries and to the people of the world. We may say that he has been, throughout his public life at the very least, blinded by ideology, but I believe that his is a wilful blindness, the blindness of a man who would deny the undeniable rather than summon the courage to admit that he was wrong. A ready example of this are the prominent public figures who came out early with the unequivocal claim that anthropogenic climate change is bad science and fundamentally wrong. I am not aware that any of these people, who elbowed their way into the spotlight early in the game, have now had the humility and the dedication to and respect for science to admit they were wrong. Their prejudices and egos are more important to them than the truth.

It a fortnight since Tony Abbott was removed from office. I believe that we should be allowed the time to exhale and regain our composure, after the traumatic experience this man and his minions have put us through, by rehearsing the evil that we have now escaped. But even after these past two years have become the stuff of distant bitter personal recollection, we should never forget the lessons that this moment in our history has taught us, for those who ignore the lessons of history are destined to repeat that history. Prime Minister Abbott will take his place in the history books along with all of our other Prime Ministers, but I share the view of former Prime Minister Frazer, that he was potentially the most dangerous man ever to have held that office.
Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 10:04 am

TURC would have performed wonderful if had extended the terms to include employers and industry. Yes, there is much corruption in the industries being target. One can’t accept a bribe without someone else offering it.
Michael TaylorSeptember 28, 2015 at 11:48 am

Neil, you are both pathetic and irrelevant. Please go away.
Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 11:55 am

Maybe Shorten should extend TURC. Be clever extend it to include employers and the industries involved. After all a bribe has to be made, for one to accept it. Yes, there is much corruption to be found. Not all in the unions. One can only imagine the outcry if he did. Of course it should at the same time he announces setting up a federal ICAC
Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:00 pm

Yvonne, do not fear, we are also keeping eye on the new PM. We on this site can do many things at once. Many.
Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:07 pm

Dear Neil,
This is what I believe. People, wherever they come from, would prefer to live in their own homes amongst their own people within the milieu of their own culture. The mass movement of people from their homes is seen by them as the last resort – conditions at home have become intolerable due to threats to their safety or poverty and both of those are predominantly caused by political upheaval and/or corruption. In short, refugees are largely the victims of circumstances over which they have no control. When they come to a place where they can find safe haven, they will stay. They will not risk their lives and the lives of their families for nothing more than a material upgrade.

“Stopping the boats” has not fixed their problems but it has prevented refugees from being fooled by people smugglers into believing that they will provide them and their families with safe passage to Australia. They seek to leave Indonesia because it has neither the means nor the inclination to provide them with tolerable living circumstances. Indonesia has always been viewed by refugees as a transit country for this reason. And Indonesia wants to keep it that way, lest it be swamped by a refugee influx.

So off-shore processing of refugees has served a useful purpose to that extent. But now it has become off-shore warehousing of children, women and men in detention centres under arrangements concluded by the current Government which makes that Government complicit in egregious violations of human rights that amount to physical and physiological torture. And all of this has now been shielded from the public gaze by the current Government passing a law, with the gutless complicity of the Shorten Labor Opposition, which imprisons anyone who blows the whistle on their criminal negligence.

There is absolutely no need to torture people to stop the boats. If the Government cannot find a solution to the retention of refugees off-shore for extended periods, the Government has an obligation to ensure that those people are treated humanely. There is no first world excuse for not treating our fellow human beings with the dignity to which we are all entitled.
Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:13 pm

I, like Abbott learnt about politics from the rantings of Santamaria and one we no longer hear of, Eric Baume. Even voted DLP. Soon woke up that they were leading me down the wrong path. At no time could I stomach Menzies. Had this funny idea my father, being a cocky would have voted country party. Wrong on that one too.

Abbott’s trouble is, he never grew up. Stayed struck in his adolescence.

He had not learnt from what has happened now. Two interviews over weekend , repeating what he has for two years. Out over the weekend, with local fire brigade. Plenty cameras present.

Attempting to rewrite history one could say. One thing Abbott has never done, is forgive any who act against him. Not in his psyche.
Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:15 pm

Neil, that boat was ready to sale long before Turnbull. When questioned, they knew nothing of change government. Not the first lately.
Florence nee FedupSeptember 28, 2015 at 12:16 pm

We do not have a new government. We have a new PM. We will have a new government I hope after the next election,
Neil of SydneySeptember 28, 2015 at 12:32 pm

But now it has become off-shore warehousing of children, women and men in detention centres under arrangements concluded by the current Government

I thought the detention centers were built by the Labor govt. There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007 so no need for Manus Island and Nauru.

But Howard got it right with the Pacific Solution. We stop the boats and takes the refugees we chose. In an unjust world it is the best way.

Stopping the boats means we can take refugees from troubled areas like Syria.

People, wherever they come from, would prefer to live in their own homes amongst their own people within the milieu of their own culture.

Wrong. Lots of people want a better life. We have immigration programs who want to come here for a better life. That guy who was killed on manus Isand, Reza Berati could not get a job in his profession so he risked his life by boat to get a job in Australia.
stephengb2014September 28, 2015 at 12:43 pm

I think it essential that we never forget Abbott and his extremist views of which he was implementing as fast as he could.
It is also essential to remember that a number of his cabinet still remain in cabinet. Indeed Ministers such as Morrison, Susan Ley, Bernard, Dutton and others (whos names escape me at the moment) are just continuing as if Abbott was still there, having lost no time in demonstrating that the previous idiology of the Abbott government are being pusued with equal vigor, as if Abbott were still there.

This tells me that Turnbull, is more of a problem because if he convinces these Ministers to be more subtle, in the zealot pursuet of their idiology, we will not see so easily the damage that neo conservative idiology can do. And if the politically aware, can’t see it coming, what hope the vast majority of those people who are not so politically aware?
Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 2:49 pm

Neil. At least I tried but your response is a mixture of obfuscation and illogical rationalisations. Who built the detention centres is irrelevant. The current Government is managing them in ways that perpetrate crimes against humanity. Your rationale for Reza Berati deciding to risk his life is either an insult to the intelligence of AIMN readers or an accurate reflection of your own. Respond to this if you like, but I will no longer waste my time on dialogue with you.
RichardSeptember 28, 2015 at 2:54 pm

What a horribly written, vile and vindictive article. What volunteer work do you partake in Paul G. Dellit? What assistance do you provide to your community, other then to spew out this poorly articulated venom?

When I reached the bottom of this article and saw the “donate” button I just laughed. No, I’ll put my money in a poker machine instead, at least there I’m presented with the possibility that I might get something of worth out of the endeavour.
RoswellSeptember 28, 2015 at 3:36 pm

“Vile and vindictive” sums up your own comment.
Michael TaylorSeptember 28, 2015 at 4:02 pm

Richard, Andrew Bolt has written an article today that might be more to your liking.
Paul G. DellitSeptember 28, 2015 at 4:05 pm

Ah, Richard. Well as a matter of fact, I am involved in a community based voluntary organisation. But I am sorry that you found my article too close to home. At least you can take comfort in the knowledge that I am floored by the devastating logic of your response. Why argue your case when you are obviously so practised in ad hominem insults?
corvus boreusSeptember 28, 2015 at 4:25 pm

Richard is to be commended on his philanthropic work feeding coin donations to poker machines. Every single dollar helps keep our poor struggling gaming industries afloat.
Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 9:42 pm

@Richard … You have missed 100% of the points here …. ah well, so be it.

If you believe your money is better spent, pouring it into poker machines ( I speak as a former player of poker machines – until I WOKE UP ) … then good luck to you. Your belief you will get ‘something worhwhile’ out of the endeavour, translates to living in a fools paradise.

You will be filling the greedy purse of the gaming industry – which allegedly ‘assists’ our economy.

Yeah – right !!!!!!!!

…….

@ Corvus …. coins went out with button up boots — it’s all now ( apparently ) big bucks in paper form. And I would like to see the stats. on how much anyone actually gets, that is worthwhile and helpful, from the gaming industry.
Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 10:05 pm

@ Paul G. Dellit …. re your comment ( September 28, 2015 at 9:15 am )

Thank you for your explicit and more than ample reply. I respect and appreciate that very much.

Still cannot fathom this former PM’s allure ?? …. is he just a train wreck waiting to happen – and the media ( who live by the mantra ‘ if it bleeds, it leads’ ) — await some ‘event’ surrounding Abbott ? … It IS possible they are doing just that. … The general media, is lower on the scale than the old ‘car or insurance salesman’ imho.

As for him being mentally ill – I am not a psychiatrist, and even if I were, could not, from afar – make any kind of diagnosis, or projected possibilities as to his mental state. Mental illness walks a very thin line …. some are, and are not seen as such – and some are not, yet are deemed to be mentally defective ( or mentally ill ) …. There have been thousands of blunders in history, on that score.

I think perhaps the words ‘mentally defective’ might suffice in this instance. The former PM Abbott, displayed much of this – to the casual and not so casual, observer. And finally, I believe, his ministry woke up to the fact that they had a loose cannon at the head of things.

Whichever way it cuts, he was not qualified in any way whatsoever, for the job that he took on.

One could feel sorry for him on that score. …. On the other hand, he welcomed it with open, power-hungry arms. …. Abbott’s personal anguish is his, and his alone. And he has to find a way to deal with it – if he is capable of doing such a thing.
Annie BSeptember 28, 2015 at 10:23 pm

@ N of S ….

I think you dropped yourself right in it ….

Your comment : “I thought the detention centers were built by the Labor govt. There were only 6 boat people in detention in 2007 so no need for Manus Island and Nauru.” … yes, the Labor government was in power then. …. Funny that. eh ???

Anyway – Correct.

Which leaves one wondering about all the ‘stopping of the boats’ …. and the resultant much much larger numbers of refugees now held on Manus and Nauru, by the current Government who treat these asylum seekers like shit, and keep looking for countries who will accept more refugees ( as long as we do not have to hold them on our own shores ) …. To have approached Cambodia with mega $$$$$$$ …. was reprehensible — ( and even that didn’t quite work out – did it ? – not yet anyway ) ….

I would suggest you might get more satisfaction, and some good debate on your specific ideals from the following – providing that is, you have a Facebook page. If you don’t I suggest you get one …

https://www.facebook.com/LiberalPartyAustralia?fref=ts

Good luck with all that N of S !! 😉
silkwormSeptember 29, 2015 at 1:06 am

Richard and Neil are to be commended for bringing more right-wing lunacy to light. And they should be banished, just as Tony Abbott has been.
Mark NeedhamSeptember 29, 2015 at 9:15 am

Let us, never enter the realm of a contra view.
When it does appear, always treat it with utter contempt.
For we, are right.
They are wrong.
I have never been wrong.
I am always right.

Says,
Mark Needham
Florence nee FedupSeptember 29, 2015 at 12:35 pm

As far as the economy goes, it matters not whether money is poured into a poker machine or not. Keeps people working, keeps money moving. Not so for a society. How money is spent, or as I would rather say invested is important. That is if one wants a fair civil society.
Paolo SopraniSeptember 29, 2015 at 3:55 pm

Neil of Sydney. Rubbish. The asylum seeker ‘invasion’ is confected nonsense. It does not exist. It is made up. Very, very few people attempt voyages from Indonesia by boat. It is as important as sand erosion on beaches. All fantasy land designed to frighten the less well informed with hints of terrorism and ‘they are not like us’ boogie man tactics. Wake up.
Dom FammartinoApril 17, 2016 at 7:44 pm

andrew bolt my names dom fammartino can i be of the show please “I Can Change Your Mind About Recognition,”in 2017 i love indigenous history
Domenic fammartinoOctober 17, 2016 at 6:19 pm

TONY ABBOTT was a man of strong values and morals – too strong for a politition it seems in this day and age. Unlike the Labor low lives that he took over from who destroyed all they touched and abbott had to fix which made his acheivements even greater.

A leader to moral for the job, he done more for australia in two years than the last two Labor prime ministers achieved in six. Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard two labour train wrecks left us with record deficits after blowing billions on rubbish — on overpriced school halls, “free” insulation that killed and destroyed people, green schemes that collapsed and were a disaster, “stimulus” checks to the dead. The list goes on..Two of the worst prime ministers in history with no leadership qualities or values.

They opened our borders to 50,000 illegal immigrants and drowned 1200. Then hyped up the false global warming scare and forced us to pay a stupid over the top carbon tax just to pretend they were saving us. Everything they touched turned into a disaster.

TONY ABBOTT stopped the boats, curbed spending, scrapped the useless carbon and mining taxes, made us safe from terroism, and had australia running smoothly and made our nation respected from countries abroad.

The australian people were fooled by a bias corrupt media that did all they can to report false unjust articles about a man who is humble and respectfull and loves his country. All the great things he achieved were taken for granted and not appreciated.abbott is a selfless man who gets out there anongst the people and sacrifices for his country.

Have a look at all the trouble we are in now with the boats the spending and terroism. Take a look at the diabolical safe schools program. The list is endless. None of these issues would be here now if tony abbott was still leader and wasnt knifed and the inept malcolm turnball put in his place thats a fact. Its a lesson to all australians that judge a man by his deeds and what he achieved. He had peta credlin as an adviser who had so much talent experience and even she was vilified unfairly. We as a nation all regret it now and only have ourselves to blame.
Annie BOctober 17, 2016 at 9:27 pm

Considering your foray Domenic, into this particular debate is over a year old, it may be old hat, but is still relevant. …

But your comments are peculiarly, wrong … imo.

Taking just one ( ONE ) item in your post – ref. the deficit ‘inherited’ from the Labor administration.

Since the LNP took over the running of our country they have managed to double, said deficit – and many ( politicians, financial wizards, ordinary bods who can figure it out etc. etc. ) …. claim that to be a tripling of the deficit, since the LNP took over. Let’s stick with doubling it — not a good thing whichever way you care to look at it – eh ?

Not one word from you, about how Labor managed to steer us through the worst global economic downturn ( the GFC ) …. without losing our credit rating, or with little impact on us as a well run country.

Then again, I would not expect you to acknowledge such a thing.

As for Abbott being a man who is ‘ humble and respectful ‘ …….. ??? … Well, humble he ain’t – ever … but there may be a few odd occasions that he showed some respect -somewhere, particularly when it suited him to do so.

However, you – as I and other commenters here, have every right to an opinion – it was an interesting read from you, about the ‘other side of the tracks’ … the opposite view – lauding loudly, the LNP. ….

But, considering recent history in our current government, I think now the subject is done with.

……….
silkwormOctober 17, 2016 at 10:42 pm

The stupid is strong in this one.
Domenic fammartinoNovember 21, 2016 at 10:59 pm

Tony Abbott did not only win one election, he won two. Rudd won by a landslide but Abbott would have been the next PM if he would hand power to Oakshott, Windsor and Wilkie or the Greens. He refused. Then he won overwhelmingly in his own right. His greatest opponent was inside his own party though and orchestrated massive bias fabricated media campaign against his boss. Eating an onion was now a crime against humanity. After losing control of our borders, Labor and the greens said it was impossible to stop the boats.

Tony Abbott stopped the boats and done many other great things for australia.

He achieved what Labor and the greens said was impossible. The left are scared stiff of Abbott. Notice how many lefties come out to try and bag him when the possibility of his return to Cabinet let alone PM is mentioned.(Some with new blog names pretending to be conservatives as well as some old names we have not heard from for a little while.) As for the galaxy poll done prior to the election that concluded that Abbott would have lost the election if PM, well I know that it was deliberately designed to get the answers it wanted. It was totally rigged similar to clintons recent polls in america enough said.

By the way Abbott still achieved around 62 percent of the vote in his own electorate on a two-party party preferred basis,that’s only a negative swing of 3.2 percent.
If you thought the media hate campaign against Abbott was way over the top when he was PM, can you imagine the hate campaign waiting for him, if he dares to return again?? The difference now is australia have woken up and the media bias will only go in abbotts favour again ill mention trump as an example.

And recent history shows that these hate campaigns really do work but i think the public are much more aware of the corrupted bias left media now I MENTION TRUMPS win again proved that and pauline hansons popularity proves the same thing. The lefts lies have sunk and the truth is rising. ILL TELL YOU THE REAL REASON THE LEFT ARE SCARED OF ABBOTT. . because he will strengthen our boarders, he is a christian there afraid he will fight union corruption, afraid he will cut spending, afraid he will do the hard yards for the good of the country, afraid he is a good decent respectfull man, afraid he his not scared of a fight and afraid he WILL show the left for what they really are , a bunch of lying ,backstabbing hypocrites. JUST LIKE TRUMP HAS ACHIEVED IN THE UNITED STATES.

So of course Tony Abbott would have won easily. His two years were a spectacular success, marred only by Turnbull’s sniping through his ABC. Now Turnbull can live in the mess they created. Unfortunately we all have to suffer so one CORRUPT FAILURE of a man can live his own artificial dream. BUT MARK MY WORDS TONY ABBOTT IS NOT GOING ANYWERE HE WILL BE BACK DOING WHAT HE DOES BEST BEING A GREAT LEADER OF THE PEOPLE THATS WHO ABBOTT IS IT COMES NATURAL TO HIM.
Michael TaylorNovember 21, 2016 at 11:04 pm

I’m speechless.
Florence nee FedupNovember 22, 2016 at 1:22 am

Abbott didn’t win two elections. Gillard was duly elected according to the Constitution. If the independent hand power to Abbott, he would have immediately went to an election, thwarting the will of the voters.

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