39 comments

1. Sunny ShamrockAugust 19, 2014 at 8:20 pm

   This is a sectarian and racist post. IF AIM network thinks this is ok then please take me off your distribution list

2. AlphonseAugust 19, 2014 at 8:26 pm

   Yes Sunny. Reverse racism, even in educative jest, is way worse than the traditional varieties.

3. VickiAugust 19, 2014 at 8:30 pm

   Sunny and Alphonse get with the tone – Rossleigh’s post is pure satire and if you were a regular browser here you would know that.

4. RossleighbrisbameAugust 19, 2014 at 8:36 pm

   Ok, sectarian I can accept – even it was meant as satire. I’m just having trouble finding my alleged racism…

5. RoswellAugust 19, 2014 at 8:51 pm

   Can someone please explain to me where this is racist?

6. Carol TaylorAugust 19, 2014 at 8:59 pm

   When I was a disability advocate a wise person advised me, you know if it’s discriminatory if you apply the statements/concepts to a different group of people. Thus we end up with things such as (and yes I know it seems ludicrous, but then stereotyping and bigotry usually are): X group cannot be trusted to turn up to work because they are disabled or mothers or of an ethnic or racial group. However, if you say the same thing about white males or Protestants or any other group perceived as ‘mainstream’ such bias and stereotyping becomes obvious. The same is as per Rossleigh’s post, why would one set of prejudices be applicable to one religion and not to another? Clearly it should not in either case. People are responsible for their own actions and religion is neither an excuse nor a reason.

7. John FraserAugust 19, 2014 at 9:00 pm

   <

   "After conferring with the Melbourne Archdiocese's legal team during a break, he told the Commission he had found 81 clerics responsible for sexual abuse and agreed to provide the Commission with more information when it resumes on Wednesday."

   Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/independent-commissioner-peter-ocallaghan-appears-at-royal-commission-20140819-105x9b.html#ixzz3ApnQfCte

   And then read this one :

   http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/catholic-clergy-the-worst-abusers-inquiry-told-20121019-27vqi.html

   Why would anyone want to pick on Rome ?

8. Anne ByamAugust 19, 2014 at 9:38 pm

   Goodbye Sunny Shamrock and Alphonse. It is a shame to see you go. Undoubtedly, you will not even see this reply or any of the others.

   What these two might be struggling with is the opening statement : “There have been a number of Catholic priests charged with sexual offences over the past few years. ”

   I can attest to this personally. I did not bring it to the attention of authorities at the time, for the simple reason ” who would believe me ” ? ( against a priest who was highly regarded by his congregation). Instead I suffered – for years. He’s dead now and I am 99% over it – having dealt with it in my own way. I couldn’t mention it here, if I hadn’t dealt with it.

   I have in the past, regretted the decision – to do nothing – to not dob him in. But that’s my concern – not anyone else’s.

   As for the link in Rossleighs’ article – that was very interesting. How so many can be fooled by those who want to infiltrate – by any methods and means … to simply STIR up trouble. As though we don’t already have enough of that in this world ??? I am not however sure, that 3AW should have pursued this …. given that the caller was adopting a fake position. Watch the link and decide for yourselves.

   As far as Sharia law advocates, and Christian fundamentalists are concerned ……. I have them IN THE SAME BOAT. As bad as one another – variations on a theme only.

   To lump ALL Muslims in the same category is wrong. Rossleigh does not do this. There is good and bad in every walk of life, including all religions. While I have suffered at the hands of an aberrant, alcoholic priest – that does not mean that all Catholic priests are the same as he was.

   Good – and bad.

   And may I remind you that Rossleigh’s comments are almost always satirical. But BOY does he get his message across. There is no racism whatsoever in Rossleigh’s article.

9. JasonAugust 19, 2014 at 9:43 pm

   I realise this article is satire, or at least an approximation, but THE LEFT??? In Australia… there is no f*cking thing as the f*cking left. Congratulations on your self-delusion.

   And yes, I read the headlining banner.

   @Sunny Shamrock and @Alphonse – exactly what the f*ck are you on about? All you do is make me wonder what the f*ck our conveniently Catholic prime-minister is on about when he expresses anti-Gaelic views. It doesn’t make sense. Tony Abbott does not make sense. He is his own sectarian crisis in waiting. And f*cking sectarianism is so f*cking per se… Oh, hang on, distinctions of humanity based on religion are making a come back. Thanks so much ‘Fox News’.

10. John FraserAugust 19, 2014 at 9:46 pm

    <

    Brandis desperately needs to read Lord Byron :

    "Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves."

    Abetz desperately needs to read Lord Byron :

    "I have no consistency, except in politics; and that probably arises from my indifference to the subject altogether."

    Hockey has never read Lord Byron :

    "But words are things, and a small drop of ink, Falling like dew, upon a thought, produces That which makes thousands, perhaps millions, think."

    Then again Hockey desperately needs to read Lord Byron :

    "The dew of compassion is a tear."

    Turnbull desperately needs to read Lord Byron (online) :

    "A man of eighty has outlived probably three new schools of painting, two of architecture and poetry and a hundred in dress."

    Pyne is described beautifully by Lord Byron :

    "But what is Hope? Nothing but the paint on the face of Existence; the least touch of truth rubs it off, and then we see what a hollow-cheeked harlot we have got hold of."

    Capitan Abbott reads nothing so this is pearls to swine :

    "Self-love for ever creeps out, like a snake, to sting anything which happens to stumble upon it."

    Lord George Gordon Byron (1788-1824) :

    "There is pleasure in the pathless woods, there is rapture in the lonely shore, there is society where none intrudes, by the deep sea, and music in its roar; I love not Man the less, but Nature more.".

11. Dan RowdenAugust 19, 2014 at 10:22 pm

    But somehow it’s ok to talk about Muslims like this. We should somehow presume that they are all recent arrivals who want to impose Sharia Law.

    Yes, in fact, we should presume that very thing, because it’s fundamentally true. There is no such thing as “moderate” Islam, from a secular perspective. “Moderate Islam” is merely a label we put on Islam that is subject to secular constraints.

    I have been involved in religious/philosophic debate for 20 years, both personally and most prominently, on the Net. Based on that experience I have no doubt that tolerating an increasing Islamic influence and presence in Australian society is a monumental mistake. Islam is, subject to certain qualifications, the most naturally and inherently theocratic of all the monotheisms. It cannot sit comfortably with a secular, democratic state, however much its adherents may pretend it to be so. Obviously, Xians and Judaists evince that same problem, depending on the depth of their religiosity, but I would contend that the evidence is undeniable that Islam and democracy, as we understand it, are fundamentally incompatible.

    I’m not interested in “tolerating” a belief system that merely “tolerates”, but does not, in principle, embrace or endorse that which we regard as norms of freedom. I’m not interested in this notion of “moderate Islam”. It’s a lie. The more authentically one is a Muslim, the less one is able to accommodate secular principles, including, and with particular emphasis on gender equality.

    I know many of you will think I’m being unkind. But unkind is not the same as inaccurate. I’ve yet to know a Muslim, “moderate” or otherwise, who was not, whence all’s said and done, batshit crazy. I fear the religious mentality in general, and therefore in this present Government, but I fear it more in the growing presence of Islam.

    Whilst there were no heroes and moral winners – and ultimately only villains – in the Cronulla riots, the precipitating factor ought not be ignored.

12. Dan RowdenAugust 19, 2014 at 10:30 pm

    Goodbye Sunny Shamrock and Alphonse. It is a shame to see you go. Undoubtedly, you will not even see this reply or any of the others.

    Um, what does this mean? Does Anne have admin rights here? If so, wtf?

13. Michael TaylorAugust 19, 2014 at 10:41 pm

    Dan, I think Anne was assuming that they won’t be coming back. She was simply saying goodbye to them.

14. John FraserAugust 19, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    <

    @Dan Rowden

    I do not tolerate any religion.

    None, nada, zip,zero.

15. Dan RowdenAugust 19, 2014 at 10:48 pm

    Michael,

    Ok. I hope they surprise and somehow manage to show this place accommodates alternate views, because that’s not in evidence lately.

16. Dan RowdenAugust 19, 2014 at 10:54 pm

    John Fraser,

    I know where your’e coming from. It’s not so much the specific religion, for me, but the mentality that drives it that’s a problem. I’m more content with existential insecurity that false certitude.

17. John FraserAugust 19, 2014 at 10:57 pm

    <

    @Dan Rowden

    If you figure out why intelligent people need a crutch … put me on your mailing list.

18. Dan RowdenAugust 19, 2014 at 11:06 pm

    Cognitive compartmentalisation.

19. mars08August 19, 2014 at 11:10 pm

    Ha! Did you hear Bill Shorten’s comments criticising the “Team Australia” campaign and tagging it as a transparent, cynical and divisive ploy to snag some bigot, bogan and bed-wetter votes for the Coalition? Did you hear him say how short-sighted and foolish it was? No…? Well, neither did I….!!!!!!

20. John FraserAugust 19, 2014 at 11:12 pm

    <

    That doesn't explain the belief in the bullshit that is the totality of religion.

    A "crutch" defines it, but it doesn't explain why people do not just accept the randomness of life, when all their thoughts and even science tells them that that is all it is.

    Gotta go.

21. Johan.haafkensAugust 19, 2014 at 11:28 pm

    Dan Rowden.

    Very well put. You only have to look to the Netherlands to see what’s happening with 6 million So called moderate Muslims there.
    I have Muslim friends, which may surprise some. I have also lived in Malaysia which is predominantly Muslim . They are not tolerant of other religions.
    Which is fundamentally a problem in years to come.
    They don’t tolerate each other let alone someone else.

22. Rob031August 19, 2014 at 11:37 pm

    I lived in Coburg in Melbourne for several years. Chock-a-block with Muslims. I always found them to be very friendly, helpful and decent.

    Incidentally this article is beautifully satirical. It’s a shame that a couple of people here failed to appreciate this. Oh well.

23. Anne ByamAugust 20, 2014 at 12:37 am

    Thank you Michael …. that is exactly what I meant.

    ****

24. Anne ByamAugust 20, 2014 at 12:38 am

    @ Dan … I was more than prepared to acknowledge your original post, which had much in it that presented another point of view. I do in fact respect other points of view. We learn that way. Or we should. Your philosophical pursuits and background are …. interesting.

    Then I came across your next post ” Ok. I hope they surprise and somehow manage to show this place accommodates alternate views, because that’s not in evidence lately.”

    This ‘place’ ( as you called it ) is RIFE WITH ALTERNATE VIEWS. I am wondering why you don’t / can’t / won’t see that. Perhaps you don’t subscribe to all posts. If you don’t, more’s the pity. You are missing out.

    “Existential insecurity” could almost come under the banner of an oxymoron. How can one ‘affirm’ an insecurity ? Insecurity, by it’s very meaning is a state of flux, emotionally, mentally – and at times, physically. Something is either secure – or it isn’t. There is however, a stage of ‘bridging’ between insecurity and security, during the individual learning new coping mechanisms. But that might be too simplistic ???

    As for false certitude. You don’t like truths that turn out to be false. ( much has been written on this ) … neither do I mate, neither do I.

25. corvus boreusAugust 20, 2014 at 7:57 am

    Anne B,
    I don’t think “existential insecurity” is in any way oxymoronic.
    Existentialism, as I understand it, is about individual determination(thought and deed) over-riding arbitrary definition or pre-determination .
    In the simplest terms, we are defined only by categorisation within a species(Homo sapien). Even sexual definition can be problematic(e.g. hermaphrodites and trans-genders). The rest, your ‘true’, and ever-flexible classification of values , is up to you.
    This gives cause for far more personal insecurity(and, conversely, growth and improvement) than a complacent acceptance of a set identification(e.g. ‘I am a Christian conservative’).
    Likewise, I think when Dan R referred to “false certitude”, he meant the complacent holding of beliefs not derived from critical examination of varied evidence, but from unquestioning acceptance of statements by chosen “authorities”(it is true because It Is Written), unwilling to consider alternative inputs.
    Dan’s philosophical contributions , containing phraseology like “cognitive compartmentalisation”, often produce discombobulation(thank you for exposing me to that word, Dan).

26. Dan RowdenAugust 20, 2014 at 9:32 am

    Rob031,

    I always found them to be very friendly, helpful and decent.

    That’s true for me also, but then I tend to avoid folk who are strongly religious as much as possible. Islam doesn’t automatically turn people into bad persons. The issue is that much of its basic theology creates underlying tensions in a secular context.

    That said, I really ought to have added the qualification to my original post that whilst I do hold that there’s no such thing as “moderate” Islam, I’m not saying there aren’t moderates who identify as Muslim. Almost all the Muslims I’ve known personally have been that type. It’s really all about the degree and nature of their attachment to aspects of Islamic theology. But then, that’s true of all religions, pretty much.

27. cleobassetAugust 20, 2014 at 11:09 am

    First Responder trolls play for Team Australia! Alphonse and Sunny Shamrock currently trying to rescue Chrissie from his puddle.

28. mars08August 20, 2014 at 11:45 am

    hahaha… I’ve got a couple of Malay friends in KL… their idea of Ramadan is to restrict themselves to drinking beer only!!! That said, they DO steer clear of pork…. but that might just be because they don’t like it.

29. Rob031August 20, 2014 at 1:23 pm

    For those who haven’t yet come across the following that went up on Guardian Australia:

    Countering Violent Extremism program funding not renewed in budget

    Intention of the program was to reduce violent extremism in Australia with a focus on ‘high-risk hotspot areas’

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/20/countering-violent-extremism-program-funding-not-renewed-in-budget

    The basic idea being:

    Asked whether the program would still be funded, a government spokesman said, “The work to counter violent extremism is now a well-embedded element of the government’s national security efforts” and that the $630m counter-terrorism package would include an expansion of programs to counter radicalisation.

    That’d be right. Take an excellent ALP program and pretend to incorporate into a highly publicised, truly divisive, “We will save you” posture.

    How low will this confederency of dunces stoop in order to save their wretched necks?

30. jimhazAugust 20, 2014 at 1:33 pm

    Asian Muslims as immigrants seem to be more inclined to cooperation and work effort. Where they are not, such as at the Malay/Thai border (and also Africa) then aggression seems to be increased by both the degree of both historical and current Arab Muslim influence.

    I think the middle eastern Muslims have the combined problem of an extremely rigidly enforced autocratic religion and historical causes such as religious, tribal and civil warfare and acts of revenge; the stunting and usurping of the legal justice by the religion, the lack of democratic tradition leading to vicious tyrants, misogynous effects of the religion over generations, Israel and other forms of western interference and a harsh physical environment, that makes them more prone to aggression and excessive misplaced pride limiting their evolution.

    [I always found them to be very friendly, helpful and decent]

    The majority yes, though I also find many rather impolite. Muslim shopkeepers can be rather dismissive. It would seem few muslims (of those not born here) understand the need for deodorant (an immediate first impression turnoff – little issue but big impact in relation to acceptance). I’ve noticed a marked difference in politeness between say Lebanese Christians and Lebanese Muslims (putting aside Obeid).

    Too many young men seem prone to criminality, and though that might just be cultural conditioning and their defensive reaction to our reaction to worldwide muslim violence, I still feel there is something in the religion itself that causes this susceptibility. It might just be the unwarranted self-righteousness caused by the higher level of fundamentalism, coupled with the effects of being used to subservient women, and a form of envy at western achievements. Of course, there does still seem a majority of muslim religious leaders who promote at least some degree of scorn to westerners.

31. mars08August 20, 2014 at 2:52 pm

    So… Middle Eastern Muslims are “more prone to aggression “, “rather impolite”, “prone to criminality”, are disturbingly “self-righteousness” and have hygiene issues??? And somehow that ALL ties back into their religion?

    That’s certainly an interesting point of view!

32. donwrefordAugust 20, 2014 at 3:04 pm

    The demonizing of the Islamic people is all part of the propaganda machine of the West, many aspects of the Taliban are similar in essence to the First World, Military.

33. billy moirAugust 20, 2014 at 6:46 pm

    race is debased when applied to religion ie the jewish race replaced judaism so maybe catholics are a race in aust???
    love your comment mars i haven’t heard any labor man rail against the basis on which the budget is premised. Can anyone put me straight by pointing my errors???
    With poor old hockey’s careless brain snap putting him on the sidelines, it is up to his fellow cigar sucker to take up the running.
    However is a German speaking Belgian any better at selling the rabbott’s economic lie?
    Matthias, a religious catholic was profoundly affected by communism and the Berlin wall making him the pefect indoctrinated candidate for WA liberals. Despite being in Australia for less than 20 years, he can be heard throughout the country, spouting the rabbott’s debt crisis slogan.
    Should any interviewer be brave enough to do a little research, they would discover that the Belgium economics show a high of 133% debt to GDP and, currently, 101%. They could then ask Matt if our debt with a high of 31% and currently 20% is a disaster, how would he describe Belgian economy? or the rabbott’s like-family Canadia(sic), currently 89%? or Japan 227%? or Singapore 105%? UK 90%? USA 101%?
    Wonder why little billy or penny(Malaysia 54%) are not having a laugh at cormann’s dribble?
    No wondering why the NT News are not challenging the rabbott or little joey or matty. No wondering why the ABC are not challenging. Until the labor party finds out the information and poses a question, journalists had better stay schtum or lose their jobs.

34. RogerAugust 21, 2014 at 12:07 am

    Reading this article I was taken back to a video I showed a class of students – BabaKiueria, a satirical look at Australian life with reversed roles (aboriginal news readers, police etc.). After watching, I asked the kids what they thought of it. The most common theme was that it was ridiculous – we don’t have black police and news readers, and who would put the white people in the back of police utes? It tends to hurt when people are exposed to their prejudices.

35. RoswellAugust 21, 2014 at 5:00 am

    Good point, Roger.

36. jimhazAugust 21, 2014 at 1:26 pm

    @ Matt

    [And somehow that ALL ties back into their religion?]

    That and oil, not that any casual chain is finite in that way, there are always a multiplicity of causes for any effect (in reality an infinity of causes). I’d say the oil proceeds are only being misused to such a high degree, due to the indirect effects of the religion.

    The religion seems to breed internal subservience and external aggression, via the shutting out of open reasoning. Arab peoples seemed to be more progressive pre-islam, than after.

    http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21606284-civilisation-used-lead-world-ruinsand-only-locals-can-rebuild-it
    http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21606286-failures-arab-spring-were-long-time-making-tethered-history

37. trevorAugust 22, 2014 at 3:29 pm

    WOW. Rossliegh. Shook the branches and look what fell out of the tree.

    All them fence sitters and religious subservients to name a few.

    Its officially a BBQ stopper or some other inane expression that means jackall but reflects positivly for the author of such statements(JOKE).

    Team orstaya and coach Abbott. Now theres an ironic oxymoron or two.

    The Abbott Rabble: Can’t stop Lying, Can’t count, Can’t Govern.

    Export Abbott not refugees.

38. mars08August 22, 2014 at 3:46 pm

    jimhaz:

    The religion seems to breed internal subservience and external aggression…

    Huh? Oh, how fascinating. All that “internal subservience and external aggression”. As opposed to the current incarnation of capitalism… which, of course, has none of those things. Right?

39. Graham HoughtonFebruary 7, 2015 at 1:08 pm

    Religion is a crime against humanity. Please think carefully about that before replying.