Victorian Forest Alliance Media Release
State owned logging company VicForests has been deregistered as a government business according to a government gazette, as of August 5 2023. Conservation groups understand this signals the first step to winding up the state owned business, but it’s unclear what the next steps are to abolish the agency in light of the state government’s plans to end native forest logging by the end of 2023.
“For years VicForests has been a total environmental and economic liability. It’s good news that the state government is taking the first step to wind up the rogue agency,” said Chris Schuringa, Campaign Coordinator for the Victorian Forest Alliance.
VicForests is responsible for two decades of mismanagement of forests, causing destruction of critical habitat for threatened wildlife, and important carbon stores. VicForests has received millions of dollars in subsidies and reported over $50 million in losses just in the last financial year.
“We now need assurance from the government that they will abolish VicForests, and scrap dodgy laws that lock in the pulping of forests, and remove the exemption from complying with federal environment laws. Forests won’t be safe while those laws are in place, even if VicForests is disbanded,” said Chris Schuringa.
“The Government needs to articulate a clear plan about what’s coming next and how these unique forests will be managed into the future.”
In June, lawyers from Environment Justice Australia filed an ACCC complaint on behalf of the Victorian Forest Alliance for false claims of environmental sustainability on VicForests’ website. The complaint alleges VicForests failed to regenerate forests after logging, make spurious claims regarding climate credentials, and falsely assert that they conduct adequate surveys for threatened and endangered species prior to logging, and protect natural values.
In August, following reports VicForests’ used public funds to spy on conservationists speaking out against logging, a damning IBAC investigation concluded that “VicForests conducted unlawful surveillance on several members of the public.” Court cases against the state company have shown VicForests have breached countless environment laws, and have failed to meet their legal obligations to survey for and protect endangered wildlife.
Despite the Victorian state government announcement in May to bring forward the end of native forest logging from 2030, to January 1 2024, logging in Western Victoria under ‘community forestry licences’ could continue beyond the proposed end date until June 2024.
(Ref: Inquiry into the 2023–24 Budget Estimates, p.14)
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It’s a start. Now get on with it, Andrews.
In Northeast NSW, over the past few days, in a forestry area including sandstone escarpments and groundwater catchments, NSW Forestry Corporation decided to conduct ‘pre-emptive hazard reduction burns.
First they set the forest on fire in dry conditions and unpredictably gusting winds,
Then, when the fires they had set grew beyond their control, they called in external resources and had load after load of water and chemical fire retardant mix dumped on the burning forests,
Then when the fires had settled down, they bulldozed the areas they had scorched the poisoned.
So in short, NSW Forestries razed then poisoned then levelled what had up till then been a diverse forest with rocky outcrops flanking relatively clean waterways.
The sooner the NSW Forestry Corporation goes the way of VicForest, the faster extinction rates of native species in NSW will begin to decline.
CB, that’s a horror story. The incompetence was very destructive and costly. Who’s running the show? Basil Fawlty?
If ever Aboriginal fire-stick farmers were needed … was then.
Too little, too late. An ugly acne blighting the faces of a couple of states and certain government over a generation in real terms
And a lazy wider society.
Like Mums. Sometimes can’t bring back that which you loved most. can’t bring ’em back once they’re gone…
‘can’t bring em back once they’re gone’.
MT called the operations I described ‘incompetence’.
I think that is the most charitable situational reading that could be made, it actually reeks of willful arson and ecological vandalism.
Previous logging operations in the area (Conglomerate SF) have been…problematically fraught, with the efforts of dedicated local citizen scientists in documenting and reporting multiple breaches (size & species types harvested, ecotypes affected, slope/gradients, geology, and proximity to watercourses), resulting in sanctions against contracted logging operators.
The ‘series of oopsies’ over the last few days have caused scorching of all existent surface vegetation, broadscale chemical contamination and widespread earthworks disturbance, and occured in surrounding forests of the very same area.
In terms of recovery, regeneration to anything like previous condition is even more problematic than usual due to the extensive chemical contamination and broadscale disruption/destruction of both soil profile & structure, and will likely never regain the diversity of specialised species existent before.
Yeah, based on circumstances, I think “incompetent” is a overly charitable assessment.
Ps did you know that Forestry Corporation have been enabled, with the flick of a bureaucratic pen, to reclassify all natural regeneration of native vegetation in previously logged areas as ‘plantation’?
Paul Walter,
Ugly scarification of once beautiful land, the testamentary legacy monument of vainglorious and rapacious arseholes the world over.
Putin’s Pock,
A 3:25 minute overview (by Beau of the Fifth Column) of what will likely be Vlad Putin’s most enduring mark;
Corvusboreus,
What has happened in Oz since enviro became a serious issue fifty years ago, a stream of graft and denialism not unlike the clown show the Voice turned into.
I appreciated your comments but must go,
I do not do depression well.
But for you personally I wish the best of the day..
Paul Walter,
Cheers mate, I hear you.
Shit abounds; dog bites.
Be well brother.
Corvusboreus, why would you give coverage via that video to someone who really should not be commenting on geo-political affairs?
Why do I say that? Well, alleging an ability to read minds should immediately preclude anyone from serious commentary. But also, because he had nothing of substance to say. The entire clip was just him being emotional and trying to score a cheap point.
Now in principle there’s nothing wrong with being distressed about people suffering in war, that’s a positive thing, a healthy attitude, but his distress is only legitimate if he is equally distressed by the suffering of those who are victims of his own country’s crimes. Unless you can provide a clip of him expressing equal distress at US crimes, one might be justified in assuming that his distress is not for human suffering; it is for something that he has withheld from his audience.
That something could be any number of things, but one possibility comes to mind. Perhaps his distress is more personal. Perhaps he is dealing with the shattering of an illusion that shaped his life — the illusion that he grew up in “the exceptional” country, the “indispensable country” the country that is “the most powerful in world history” but which in reality, as he now realizes, is too weak or too afraid of a peer adversary to defend an ally.
So please, provide evidence of his overwhelming distress at US crimes and I’ll be more than happy to see him in a really positive light. In the words of Che Guevara, if he quivers with anger at every injustice, then he is a comrade of mine.
Steve Davis,
Or, alternatively, you could say ‘not for me’ and move on. I find it…interesting that you found a 3 1/2 minute clip of a yewchoober saying some disrespectful things about Vladimir Putin (and his pock) more objectionable and distressing than the litany of observed destructive environmental vandalism bu government sanctioned agency that comprised the bulk of my contribution. Anyway, you do you…
Keep posting them, CB. ✊
You raise an interesting point, CB.
What was “some disrespectful things about Vladimir Putin” doing in an article about environmental vandalism by a govt agency?
I know Putin is very very very bad, but surely he has not put his sticky fingers into Vic forests?
Steve Davis,
The context was the indelible ugly scars left by powerhungry, vainglorious or greedily rapacious arseholes the world over.
OK, or do I need to justify myself to you further?
corvusboreus, that’s an excellent motivation.
A stretched analogy perhaps, but your intention was good.
Perhaps next time you won’t use a clown to make your point. I can’t recall a cheap point scoring exercise ever stopping a war, or stopping corporate vandalism.
Steve Davis,
Your opinion of that person has been duly noted and appropriately stored .
For those who didn’t catch what caused such controversy for Steve, here’s a summary:
Putin’s Pock
(Through the telescope)
A few months back India & Russian agencies had a race to land an unmanned probe on the moon.
The Indian mission landed successfully, but the Russian effortsuffered an “unscheduled rapid disassembly” ( their words)
This has left a new crater on the lunar surface that is visible under high magnification and will likely last longer than most human monuments.
One proposed colloquial name for the new lunescape feature is ‘Putin’s Pock’.
Travel to space is always a ride on a high-combust explosion trapped in a little cage cobbled from lowest bids, but the Russian effort, was a rushed response conducted simultaneous with the waging of a …very costly war of aggression ( I can say that here).
One possible takeaway lesson (to plagiarise from the Beau-clown) ” we can have space travel, or we can have war, but we probably can’t have both.”
Back on topic, we can do without both war and space travel, but we phuqqen absolutely definitely need trees (and lots there of) for their terrestrial water storage (for rain generation), regulation of variance in temperature and for the very survivable breathabilty of our air.
CB — “Back on topic,…”
At last. It took a while, but we got there. And I absolutely agree with you.
Steve,
Good.
Anything on-topic, preferably with informational value, to contribute yourself?
Roswell,
✊+🖖+🤘=✌️(🤞)
I won’t post any more BOTFC videos on this thread.
You’d probably find his daily short-takes on aspects of US & broader geopolitics interesting (given what I’ve gleaned of your background) but he offers little knowledgeable contribution to conversations about forestry mismanagement malpractices in Eastern Australia.
“Anything on-topic, preferably with informational value, to contribute yourself?”
Certainly nothing from clown-world. I look forward with eager anticipation to his next offering.
Unless he invades it, CB. 😉
steve davis,
Evidently you have little to no engagement or interest with anything to do with the accelerating destruction of existent native forestry, or it’s flow on ramifications to local ecology or wider climate issues.
I’ll leave it at that on account of the fact that I am a guest in someone else’s house.
Roswell,
Yeah cheers, but I’m not really feeling the funnies at the moment.
The devastated and poisoned areas I mentioned are within country I have extensively walked, both out of personal naturalist curiosity, then as part of the attempted preservation-through-documentation process.
That’s tragic on a personal level, CB. It’s not something we ever forget.
Roswell,
Yeah, sucks to watch a community you love being destroyed.
Even worse for my friend and colleague who lives adjacent to the devastated area.
Now at least another 3 people (you, Michael & Paul W) are aware of what happened and actually cared enough to say ‘that’s bad’.
Surprisingly heartening for a person of abysmal expectations, but not enough to continue bashing my head against this particular wall.
See you whenever I can next be arsed to share as I learn.
Corvus out.
CB, what’s going on here?
You assert that I “have little to no engagement or interest with anything to do with the accelerating destruction of existent native forestry,” yet I had previously said “I absolutely agree with you.”
Have you started a course of pugnacious pills?
Stevie,
Sorry, missed that, please repeat with greater clarity.
CB @ 10:59pm yesterday …
Thanks for the recognition.
And I hear you.
No place in the world is as close to my heart as Kangaroo Island, especially the area of our farm.
To see the old soldiers settlers farms bought up by Gunns forestry and turned into plantations was painful enough, but also the ancient Aboriginal campsites on our farm – and elsewhere on the island – that would have been destroyed. Heartbreaking.
My favourite trails in the scrubs. Gone. My favourite fishing spot along the river. Gone. My favourite old gums. Gone.
And then there were the fires.
I can’t go back. It’d be too painful. I’m not strong enough for that.
MT,
You’re welcome.and thank you.
You may occasionally self-doubt your own strength, but it is certainly seen, felt and appreciated by others.
Small consolation within loss?;
Our mutual pain at the destruction of special places of intimate personal connection only runs the depth of our own lived experience.
Imagine what those with much longer intergenerational blood-connection to the same bits of country must be feeling.
CB, you said “Sorry, missed that, please repeat with greater clarity.”
Don’t worry about it, it’s just an age thing, but you can’t put it off any longer.
Go see an optometrist.
Steve,
Yeah nah mate, still not reading. It could be you transmitter giving out piss-weak signal strength or being set at anincomparable frequency bandwidth, or it could be my receiver, which automatically filters out disruptive static interference (‘fuzz’ in ham-talk) and irrelevant cross-channel chatter.
Perhaps Morse?
* – – *. * *. * * *. * * *. / – – -.
* * – *. * * – *. (end)
Ps feel free to contribute something of substance regarding forestry practices conducted by government sanctioned corporate agencies.
“feel free to contribute something of substance regarding forestry practices conducted by government sanctioned corporate agencies.”
That’s a good one coming from someone who introduced clownworld into a discussion of forestry practices. So yeah, nah mate, when you moved from pugnacious to disingenuous without missing a beat, I knew I was dealing with a master of the rhetorical arts.
Talking of the clown, can you fill me in on his medical qualifications. He has some worrying thoughts on Putin’s health and I need to know if I should take him seriously
Steve,
3rd & final effort;
Anything to say re forests?
If not,…
Michael:
I very much doubt it was incompetence. All the state forestry departments do this sort of thing, and much of it is deliberate in order to have an excuse for converting natural forest to plantation. They don’t care about the environmental damage, either short-term or long-term.
When I was living in Victoria I saw a lot of downright illegal behaviour from VicForests and the loggers, and it was almost impossible to have anyone brought to account for it. We’d go in, survey a marked coupe and report on the number of large, old habitat trees. Go back a week or two later and the coupe has been either re-marked to carefully exclude sufficient old trees to make logging it legal, or just clearfelled anyway. They’d log beyond the coupe boundaries, into NPs and other reserves, ignore legislated buffer zones for watercourses or sensitive vegetation …
On the rare occasion you could get someone into court for it, penalties were ludicrous – a nominal fine and back to work the next day.
We’re seeing the same things happening down here in Tassie, too. And all of this is subsidised by the taxpayer because the state forestry departments are always operating at a loss; royalties don’t even cover the cost of road construction into the forests, much less all the rest of the work involved. The only people making money out of it are the (usually foreign-owned) big corporations like Ta Ann and the politicians they pay off to keep their cheap access.
Leefe,
I hold similar views based on similar experiences, it was the kind of sequence of oopsies that suggest deliberate actions, and occured in a locality where they were encountering serious on-ground…friction due to documentation of their malpractices.
Anecdotal report from my friend neighbouring the afflicted area was that her communications with Forestry Corporation management were met with ‘ we can do whatever we want when it comes to fire risk’.
On ground, this region is receiving soaking rain, which is mostly welcome as the drying was starting to show as dieing. However, in Conglomerate SF, it means that a combination of ash, displaced soil and fire retardant are very likely currently washing into Sherwood creek from upstream of all human inhabitants.
This will obviously have serious detrimental effect upon water quality and.health of aquatic life.
Ps, enquiries have thus far been unable to glean any clear info on the type of fire retardant that was deployed, but even the most benign are still environmentally harmful.
CB, for the third and final time, “I absolutely agree with you.” And that’s from a registered fully-paid-up tree-hugger.
Now, about those medical qualifications…
Steve,
Whatever.
Please stop trying to disruptively troll a serious discussion between a group of people who are both informed in and engaged with the central subject of article.
I daresay i’m not the only person here whose patience you are testing.
CB, you introduce a clown to a serious discussion and I’m the troll ?
You made a blue. Own it. It’s not hard. I’ve had to do it in the past.
If you’re having trouble finding the right words, I’ll help you out.
Try this. “Yeah, I might have drawn a long bow with that one.”
See? It’s not hard. And no loss of face. In fact, quite the opposite.
Leefe, Gunns/Guns were a private company (from Tasmania) who went bust before the fires, but I smell govt incompetence/corruption in the original approval.
With all the archeological activity that was happening on the island one would think that the Heritage Act would have prevented destruction of the old farms. That raised alarm bells in my tiny, yet overactive brain.
I was back there in 1993 and went to a fabulous bush kitchen near Flinders Chase, at a spot that I later learned an American/Japanese consortium wanted to build a resort and hotel. State laws required that land within 50ft of the building had to be cleared (because of fire risk) but the SA gave approval for that requirement to be waived.
The local council on the island took the government on, and won, and as a consequence the resort was never built.
As fate would have it, the whole area was destroyed in the 2019/20 fires.
On Treehugging
(Some basic advice for the subject ignorant)
Firstly, you do not need to register or pay a fee in order to hug trees.
If someone tries to make you do so, they are playing you for a gullible fool.
Secondly, not all trees are huggable, some prefer boundaries, so it is good to know tree from tree.
For example, i wouldn’t recommend embracing anything in genus Erythrina (thorns) or Dendrocnide (poisonous stings), nor anything with species name ‘pruriens’ (itchy) or ‘aspera’ (rough/coarse).
I also wouldn’t recommend hugging a Melaleuca quincinervia,
They’re friendly enough, but there is a type of Funnel-web spider that sometimes lives between the pages of the bark (also a consideration if using the bark as emergency loo-paper).
Lastly, based on personal experience, if you decide to consumate the hug with a climb, I don’t recommend blindly hooking a bare forearm over a horizontal branch to ascend, on account of you might press your flesh into multiple head & tail barbs of a migratory chain of spitfire caterpillars (“ow!’)
Happy to help..
CB, sounds like you and I have discovered the health benefits of Shinrin yoku (which is Japanese for forest bathing). If you have five minutes to spare Carol and I had an amazing forest experience in Germany which you might want read about:
Hey CB, I used to have a photo of me hugging a Hoop Pine (araucaria cunnunghamii) on Hook Island. If you’re familiar with it you’ll know it takes real dedication and commitment to hug one of those big boys. Consumation of course, was out of the question.
By the way, my reference to a “registered fully-paid-up tree-hugger” was untruthful in word but not in spirit, a (failed) attempt to lighten the atmosphere. Try “light-hearted” sometime. It works wonders.
Michael: Yeah, I still remember the whole Gunns debacle. That was a clear case of corruption and there were attempts to prosecute those involved but only one ever got done for it. Rouse, I think. Lennon and all the others got away with their part in it. And then Gay was done years later for insider trading, but that was a separate issue.
cb: While I love a good clamber up a consenting tree, these days I tend more to make do with a gentle laying on of hands. It’s easier for all involved.
MT,
I accidentally discovered the practical benefits of shinrin-yoku long before I even knew it existed as a ‘thing’.
Mindfull time amongst the silent giants helps ‘groundedly elevate’ a sense of deep gratitude for all they provide us.
I also thoroughly recommend recreational kayaking, both for physical and mental health benefits.
Although it needs a bit more logistical support than a simple walk in the woods, a trip along flowing water gives a refreshingly different perspective.
Leefe,
True.
Note to recreational tree climbers: take off your shoes first!
Steady on, CB, I have as much grace in a kayak/canoe as an orangutan trying to play a violin.
Walking is my forté.
CB, has one of your comments gone missing?
MT,
I think of kayaking as a seated walk down (or up) a waterway track using my arms as legs.
And yeah, there are very few people who can dismount gracefully from a sit-on kayak.
Don’t fret the case of the missing comment, I sometime reconsume my own regurgitations rather than leave them lying round..
Ps enjoyed the travelogue (+pics) of your & Carols trip to the Wald.
PPS, KL dropped in to comment last night, t’was heartening to hear from her.
CB, that’s my problem: trying to get up off my bum. Need some strong people on hand to lift me up. 😁
I’m glad you enjoyed by piece on Bayerischer Vald.
Yes, it was good to see Kaye Lee (and you again, btw). By popping in at least I know she’s OK.
There’s not many people I respect and admire more than I do Kaye.
MT,
If I could feasibly kayak whilst sitting on an ova-ball I would be a happy man.
Ps, out of regret for various offcuts and splinters I’ve caused in the past, I’m trying to make my measurements more accurate before commencing with bladery.
On Araucaria cunninghamiana
(Aka ‘Hoop Pine’)
[4 Steve]
The Hoop Pine is so called because it is a pine that grows in hoopy patterns
The scientific genus nomenclature of Araucaria is boring as phuq, it was named after a Chilean region where a latin-speaking proto-botanist first saw a weird looking pine tree (the ‘monkey-pizzle’)
The genus itself is scientifically fascinating, as it’s existence in both Sth America & Australia indicates at least Gondwanan vintage.
The species name comes from a colonial chief botanist with a habit of naming every new thing brought to him after himself (you know, that egotistical legacy thing).
Henceforth I’ll call it a hoop pine to save finger strain.
As far as I can theorise & confirm through enquiry, the main traditional Aboriginal uses for the hoop pines would be as a source of fatwood, a type of sap/resin impregnated woundwood with highly flammable properties, and the rendering of sappy extrusions for glue.
The hoop pine’s sibling, the A. bidwillii (aka ‘Bunya Pine’), a more localised species, periodically drops large cones (up to 5kg) full of delicious nuts that people used to travel across nations to feast upon, but the humble hoop pine cone only contains peppercorn sized seeds each with a single wing that makes them spin in flight like an out-of-control helicopter (wind dispersal method).
The first pale people to record their impressions of the hoop pine, representatives of the Royal British Imperial Navy, briefly considered them as a quick & easy source of ship mast until discovering that they were softish, permeable and hollow down the guts.
Hoop pines are sometimes still chopped down and cut up to make light framework and furniture pieces that don’t genarally last for very long.
Baby hoopies are prickly all over and need riggers gloves to transplant.
Juvenile hoopies are spikey on the trunk and require welders gauntlets to safely handle or plant out.
Adult hoop pines have a pachydermic bark comprising a patchwork of smooth plates with rough upturned edges, and are OK to hug unless you try some cheek-rubbing action.
Ps, cheers for joining the tree-talk Steve.
Pps, I noticed the ‘monkey-pizzle’ typo, but thought it serendipitously amusing enough to keep.
CB, the hoop pine is my favourite tree, so much so that when we bought a very modest bush block I named it Araucaria. Planted about 300 seedlings. A majestic tree that (in my opinion) makes the Norfolk Pine (also an araucaria) look merely ornamental in comparison.
They were harvested on the Whitsunday Islands in the old days, there was even a mill on Whitsunday Is, still remembered by the appropriately named Sawmill Bay.
As you say, named for the region in Sth America, inhabited by the Arauca native americans who regarded the tree as sacred. As do I. Cheers.
Steve,
Since you regard the hoop pine as especially sacred amongst trees, you might be pleased/relieved to know that, based on my prior bio-survey observations of locally occurent species, few to no specimens of Araucaria cunninghamiana (hoop pine) were harmed during the recent gratuitous razing, chemical dousing, and subsequent dozing of the north-western sections of Conglomerate State Forest along the slopes overlooking Sherwood Creek.
Most of what was lost was a hell of a lot rarer.
CB, keep up the good work, much appreciated.
Steve,
Can’t say I reciprocate.
Most of your ‘contributions to this thread have been off topic disruptions delivered with arrogant condescension.
(Admittedly, you did state that you agreed with me and sometimes hump hoop pines)
Regarding your strange demand that I provide medical qualifications justifying Beau’s right to make a video commenting on the condition of Putin’s heart;
I don’t think that articular yewchoober has an actual medical degree, although he does have videos detailing various FA kits tailored for specific purposes, and is an advocate of including above-basic first aid in your beneficial skillset
Thing is, none of the statements in the video on Putin’s heart require a medical degree.
I will make 3 summary statements.
1) reports are circulating that V Putin recently suffered a coronary incident that required resuscitation.
2) these reports are all based on a single article by a journalist citing a single anonymous source (some Russian soldier)
3) in absence of further evidential confirmation, the report into Putin’s alleged health incident should be viewed with scepticism at best.
No specialised medical claims made = no medical degree required.
Happy?
“Happy?”
Not at all.
The clown pushed claims that he admitted had no substance, now you’re doing the same. If they have no substance, why did he push them and why do you try to justify that?
What’s going on here? What’s the point? Why waste everyone’s time?
Let me guess how this started. A completely speculative, evidence-free, unjustifiable guess.
The clown is a Putin-hater who was looking to vent on Putin, but could come up with nothing better than a crater on the moon. A crater on the flamin’ moon, fer cryin’ out loud!
Actually, the guess is not entirely evidence-free. Go back and have a look at the mind-reading assumption he used to make the connection.
As to me being off-topic, it was you who linked to the video in the first place, and you who has revived this off-topic line. The reasons for which, I can only speculate.
Steve,
I answered something you twice demanded I provide.
That you made no acknowledgement or address of such merely continues your consistentpattern of behaviour.
I have concluded that you are mostly here on this site to defend the honour of Putin’s pocked pucker.
Whatever floats your boat mate.
CB, I can see you’ve had a relapse.
We were getting on so well, but apparently you’re back on the pugnacious pills.
It could have been a beautiful friendship. 🙂
Between you and AC I’m having a busy morning. Luckily, I’ve got plenty of time.
Cheers…
On clowns🤡
A Putin-worshipping neo-tankie MRGA nut who visited here had a lot to say about clowns.
Apparently he thinks ‘clown’ an insulting put down.
I don’t; I have friends who are clowns.
Having some basic knowledge of what their role entails, i find that clowns are definitely not to be underestimated.
To clarify, I am not coulrophobic, but can definitely understand why clowns have a phobia category all to themselves.
See, if a clown was approaching me with anger of malice, I would be considering several things.
Clowns are not only interim entertainers, quick to step in with a quip to fill the gap between acts, they also often provide much of the muscle and security for the troupes they are attached to, acting as the gangers and bouncers of the bigtop crew.
Clowns can generally perform a variety of tumbles and pratfalls, indicating competent levels of agility training, and every clown worth their salt can juggle, indicating a brain that works well on both hemispheres and a set of hands that can throw down real fast.
I recognise the versatility of skills and strengths required to be a good clown, and give them all due respect.
Gimps, on the other hand…
“A Putin-worshipping neo-tankie MRGA nut who visited here…”
This just keeps getting better and better. Another entry for my Greatest Hits file, I’ve had a good week.
But I’m worried.
To see you revisiting this after 3 1/2 months means that something is really eating at you. Tell me all about it and maybe I’ll be able to help walk you through it.
I’d offer to take you under my wing but I’ve tried that before and it led to all sorts of connotations from ancient Greece.
This is not the first time you’ve gone off the reservation.
My comment at October 27, 2023 at 9:57 pm above was genuine and complimentary, yet you turned on me.
I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that some folks are just not suited to this form of intercourse.
“I’m slowly coming to the conclusion that some folks are just not suited to this form of intercourse.”
Well, true; most people capable of critical thinking can see gaslighting and propaganda a mile off. Perhaps you could try a different method of communication?
Leefe, if you think I’m tough to deal with, try going offshore, try your hand on some international blogs.
There you’ll have to deal with psychopaths, sociopaths, misogynists, chauvinists, every type of unpleasant outlook you can think of. And most in those categories are surprisingly very intelligent.
Go there unprepared as many here seem to do, and slowly but surely you’ll start to miss my gaslighting and propaganda.
Steve, you aren’t hard to deal with, just goddamn bloody boringly predictable. I’ve been dealing with people like you for over 60 years and you’re a long way from being the most (or, depending on how you look at it, least) impressive of them.
Thanks leefe, that’s another one for my Greatest Hits file. I need a bigger computer.
So, do you feel inspired to try your hand on the international scene?
I was probably “dealing with the international scene” before you knew what the internet was. And I can find my own way into and through it when necessary, so spare me the offers of “mentoring”.
What does it take for you to understand “just go away and stop blathering at me”? Oh, hang on, not in your lexicon, right? Fine, I’m going for a walk. I may be some time …
leefe,
Respect and applaud the nod to Titus Oates.
PS, chuckling that you pointing out the tedious predictability elicited another repetition of an already rote response.
“just go away and stop blathering at me.”
You really are precious.
It was you who introduced yourself into this discussion with an insult directed at me, but now I should just go away.
Where can I get some of these precious pills?
Steve Davis,
I accept that your compliment was genuinely proffered.
In return, please accept that your proffered compliment genuinely meant absolutely less than nothing to me as you had already repeatedly demonstrated yourself to be a contemptible nithing.
(Further interactions have only reinforced)
First step on any road towards you achieving personal redemption in my esteem is for you to provide irrefutable photographic evidence of you hugging a hoop pine, because your excuse of a lost photo sounds like a delusional fabrication to me.
Provide evidence!
Get cracking boy, go fetch me a photo of you humping an Araucaria.
Till then, corvus out.
“ I accept that your compliment was genuinely proffered …” “… your proffered compliment genuinely meant absolutely less than nothing to me as you had already repeatedly demonstrated yourself to be a contemptible nithing.” (sic) “… you achieving personal redemption in my esteem…”
I am now absolutely certain; some people are not suited to this type of interaction.
To have two friendly exchanges in succession then turn on me for no reason is not acceptable behaviour.
To leave a thread where we had differences to come here after 3 1/2 months to continue those differences with a long-winded ramble about clowns, is worrying behaviour.
The pompous word-play affectation that we now see more often, is unintentionally humorous.
There’s something going on here and you need to get on top of it.
SD, the other day was following these threads, kinda puzzled, but not so much, at the way things were playing out, and was tempted to throw up a post with reference to Estragon & Vladimir and maybe chuck in a few oblique references from Martin Esslin’s classic exposition, The Theatre of the Absurd.
But nah. What the hell. The cortical homunculus whispered, ‘stay out of it, just enjoy the show.’
Canguro, I was “enjoying the show,” I like to have a bit of fun with all my interactions where possible, and hope that those I have differences with have fun also.
I even complimented CB on another thread a couple of days ago, for a great witty retort that he got me with. But it seems that things have become quite serious now.
On citizen science
(and adventures in the Forbidden Zone).
I previously mentioned the work of citizen scientists in documenting Forestry Corp malpractices, but I kinda assumed knowledge that many here may not possess.
To clarify, citizen scientists are unqualified but reasonably knowledgeable volunteers who undertake studies and submit field data to help inform the scientific process.
Mostly it is quite lighthearted and social stuff; a walk in the forest looking and listening for sight or sign of elusive species with the promise of packed lunch along the way.
There can be some requirement of 3am courage to survey nocturnals, or fortitude to wade through swampmud chasing wetland species, but mostly it’s pretty safe stuff.
The citizen science conducted in response to resource extraction activities (esp Forestry & mining) is a different breed of beast, posing real risks of consequence for those involved in gathering informational evidence (although not as serious as those faced by direct action protesters).
For example, these days when a Forestry coupe is announced open for logging, it usually becomes categorised as an activity exclusion zone, meaning that anyone caught within the mandated area can be charged with criminal trespass and subject to prosecution, a practice Forestry Corp are resorting to more frequently.
Penalties can range from behavioral bonds and punitive fines through to custodial sentences, and will often include provision of restraining orders in an arbitrary radius around Forestry activities (no more forest bathing for you!)
Note that these restrictions often apply for long periods both pre and post logging, meaning long periods of non accountability surrounding Forestry operations breaching protective regulations and impacting on protected environments.
Postscript disclaimer; by posting generic details about citizen science activities that could be construed as illegal, I in no way acknowledge or admit to participation in any such acts.
Canguro,
Not entirely sure of the desired intent of the oblique Beckett reference, but I do appreciate the term ‘cortical homunculus’ (enough to plagiarise).
The cortical homunculus, chief gatekeeper against eruptive rampages by the menagerie of grotesques that reside within the amygdala. .
CB, yes indeed, the amygdala, a bit of brain tissue the size of a fat peanut, wondrous how it exerts such control over one’s relationship with the world. Best practice parenting, or the next step down, good enough, makes the world of difference as opposed to the poor souls who suffer early childhood abuse whilst wearing an infantile brain undergoing differentiation and codifying its reactions and responses to the external.
Bessel van der Kolk, the American psychiatrist who coined the term Post-traumatic Stress Disorder whilst working with Vietnam vets and who has public recognition via his book The Body Keeps the Score, observed that as a generality, adult onset trauma is much more treatable than the residual consequences of people who are abused as infants or children, due to the fact of brain development and neurobiological pathways conditioning the amygdala to be continually activating the nervous system to a state of hypervigilance per fight, flight, or freeze per external dangers. It sucks, big time. The numbers of adults in this world, both current and former generations, who live unfulfilled lives as a consequence of ECA is truly staggering, and it seems there’s little that can be done to assuage such suffering. C’est la vie, as our French brothers aver.
Canguro,
Societal tendency towards overstimulation of the GABRA6 T allele, especially within developmental years, does seem to cause problems downstream.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-017-12776-8
CB, thanks for that link… wow! Some things are beyond our capacity to deal with, it seems. Bloody alleles!
Not minimising at all, but here’s Loudon Wainwright from 1971…
… and from 1986
Canguro,
Cheers..
The 86 song resonated sympathetically, but the 71 number hurt a bit (because personal).
I also have thank you for flicking me the R Flanagan recommendation, I’ve been bingeing
Further on citizen scientists,
I would note that, from past comments, leefe ‘the precious’ voluntarily participates in flora/fauna surveys to assist with conservation efforts.
For that alone he/she/they have my sincere respect and gratitude.