Senator Payman, Billy Elliot and Other Random Thoughts…
Most people I know loved the film “Billy Elliot” but I must confess that I found it all a bit twee…
Look, I love art and dancing and someone pursuing their own fucking path and all that jazz. I mean, if you knew my life story which I’m quite prepared to tell anyone over a dozen drinks or so but…
Anyway, there’s this scene where the father is heading towards the factory even though the miners are on strike. His friends run after him and stop him, but he explains that his son needs the money for dancing lessons and so they don’t beat him to death and understand…
Ok, it’s a while since I watched it and all I remember is the total disbelief I had about the scene which I can express with the following dialogue which didn’t happen in the film but it’s what I inferred:
“Dancing lessons? Oh, eh, well that’s something important… Our kids just want shoes and food and a roof over their heads but dancing lessons, well… it’s ok to be a scab for that!”
Which, of course, brings me to the fundamental problem of the moment.
Labor has historically been a party of the union movement and, as such, has a very hostile view to those breaking ranks and crossing the floor. Labor has, historically, been a party of the left. Labor has been…
Let’s try and talk about the present for a moment and think ahead…
But first let me establish my credentials as a Labor person…
… Yep, after considerable thought, I have none. I have absolutely no qualifications to speak on the internal machinations of the Labor Party, which makes me wonder why I wasn’t asked to be a guest on “Insiders” this week. I mean, surely Sam Maiden is entitled to long service leave or something…
On a side note, has anyone in the media actually pointed out that while the Liberals are saying the John Setka is telling Labor what to do, Albanese actually compaigned to have Setka expelled leading to the union boss resigning from Labor? No, how strange… Look, I’m not trying to be an apologist for Labor here… I never realised that I’d end up being considered left wing because Labor moved further to right than I did but that’s the way the world works…
So, with my lack of expertise in mind, I’d like to comment on Senator Payman’s decision to cross the floor.
Historically speaking, she’s made a choice that will lead to her expulsion…
Anyway, I keep getting back to this idea that left will decimate themselves if their opponents just keep throwing the right distraction out there… Of course when I say “right distraction” I meant it in terms of correct rather than as a political side, but it works both ways….
I suddenly have this feeling of deja vu, like I’ve written this before but I’ll move on…
While some will argue that Senator Payman should be applauded for taking a principled stance, others will argue that she should be expelled for crossing the floor because that’s the precedent and if we allow that hard and fast rule to be broken with no consequences then what’s to stop it being constantly broken in the future.
Whichever side you land on, you can see that it’s been a great distraction and whichever way Albanese goes, he’ll have some saying that he did the wrong thing. We’ll also have Peter Dutton arguing either that the PM is weak for not taking the sort of strong action that he doesn’t take every time Bridget Archer crosses the floor OR the PM is weak for giving in to the factions and expelling Senator Payman.
Perhaps the only way that Labor can get out of this one is by doing something so outrageous that everyone moves on to the next Big Thing and the media leave this alone to be a problem resolved by Labor without the glare of everyone being asked about it in every interview. After all that seemed to work for the Coalition over the past few years… and by past few years, I mean since Harold Holt went missing which stopped whatever else was in the news for the next few days.
I mean, Labor could say maybe we’ve been a little too hasty to dismiss Dutton’s nuclear idea so we’re appointing Ziggy Switkowski to investigate the economics of nuclear like he did a few years back, and to ask John Howard exactly why he banned it in the first place. That should take up a few thousand columns of Dutton expressing his outrage that anyone should actually investigate the feasibility of an idea that he developed on the back of a drink coaster…
But it doesn’t solve the Payman question and I guess that’s because there is no easy answer. Going against the tradition of caucus solidarity would be difficult for some Labor MPs, but expecting Payman not to cross the floor would be absurd. However, expelling her for crossing the floor when she was actually voting for something that’s Labor policy has a Catch-22 quality about it.
Whatever else, while I found the whole Billy Elliot crossing the picket line moment lacking in plausibility, I must say that when it comes to Senator Payman, she’s not talking about dancing lessons!
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Bert
Return to home pageThe whole question of the Senator crossing the floor became laughable when Senator Penny Wong compared her voting with the Party line on Same Sex Marriage and Senator Payman crossing the floor to vote along her strongly held Religious beliefs and what is right.
While Wong may have been voting against her personal opinion, is same sex marriage in the same category of Genocide? Apparently not, as Senator Wong didn’t feel strongly enough to cross the floor or maybe I’m thinking a bit of self interest in political ambition was a stronger motivation.
Myself also like the author of this opinion piece have limited qualifications to speak as to the inner machinations of the Labor party, (Union Member off & on since the age of 17, at times site representative, & contrarily Liberal Branch Vice President [a balanced view?])
I hold no high opinion of the Islamic religion, like all religions it has good and bad points. But, for an adherent to the Islamic religion I can’t honestly expect Senator Payman to vote any other way than what she did. I will always admire someone that stands up for their own beliefs at a potential personal cost & sorry Senator Wong, you didn’t have that strength of character.
I applaud her for standing up for her beliefs. Respect! The world would be a lot better place if more politicians stood by their words, when they occasionally bless us with their versions of the truth of course. I am sickened by the way ‘white’ governments are supporting the barbarian Netanyahu and his murderous IDF storm troopers. Australia’s attitude towards this genocide seems to be similar to the way we looked at the Indigenous Australian problem decades ago, ignore it and hope it goes away or dies out. Are we still too worried about upsetting the jews 80 years after their own genocide and now allow them to act every bit as bad as the nazis who tried to wipe them out?
Albo is very gently being taught a lesson here, and if he chooses to ignore it then he is the lesser person.
I see no reason for expelling Senator Payman. There is a war going on, no more than a war, there is a genocidal attack on an virtually imprisoned group id Palestinians, this is not even religious, it is the Israelis attacking and starving, holding to a virtual siege over 2 million people in Gaza and while no one is looking forcing Palestinians on The West Bank off their lands in while illegal settlements are being constructed. Senator Payman’s stance is a humanitarian stance and is to be applauded. I wish the ALP would show the same commitment to humanitarianism.
It was nice to see Farrell and Wong finally united, with this stand against the villainous Payman.
Denialism over Gaza plus Payman’s Assange-like persecution plus AUKUS has me in search of someone new to vote for next election.
I’ve spent fifty years waiting for them to stick to their promises, then fall over on integrity issues.
I wouldn’t vote Tory, so why vote Labor?
As to Wong and gay legislation, not quite the same just being gay, to having your family murdered in Gaza.
I may need some assistance in understanding the Senator Payman issue.
The Greens put forward a Motion in the Senate to the effect that the Australian Government ‘recognise the State of Palestine’. Simple and to the point but as one commentator noted, it’s like saying to a man who is being hit over the head by his neighbour, ‘ would it help if I recognised your right to a sovereign state’, and the response might well be ‘ well that’s all very well but could you first stop my neighbour hitting me over the head’.
The Greens motion was not supported by either major party but Labor did put forward an amendment which they considered would be constructive. They added the words “as part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace”.
To the average observer that placed the motion into context and would have gone through as it would have received Labor support together with a number of the independents and hopefully the Greens. But the Greens and the coalition opposed the amendment and the original motion was put and as anticipated it failed, but it did bring about the current brouhaha as WA Labor senator Payman decided to cross the floor and vote with the Greens. This in turn led to her being indefinitely suspended from Labor caucus meetings but not being ejected from the Labor party as the Greens and the coalition would have preferred.
Instantly the ever helpful leader of the opposition,Peter Dutton, called for Payman’s removal from the ALP and reminded us that this was Labor convention when a parliamentary member failed to toe the party line. The Greens also expected Payman to be sacked from the Labor party and they hoped that she would join them thus boosting their numbers in the senate.
But none of that happened, Payman stayed true to Labor and the motion in support of peace in Palestine didn’t, as anticipated, progress any further.
Is somebody in the Greens playing silly buggers ?
Labor has been in contradiction with itself ever since they drank the neoliberal Koolaid.It seems an anachronism to be pulling this caucus solidarity bullshit in 2024,and just another reason for people to be looking elsewhere in future.Boofhead is as popular as a turd in a spa,so Independents and Greens will almost certainly add to their growing numbers.Yeah,I know,it’s a broken record.
With the USA failing to ratify the Rome Statute, and several other treaties of the UN, has its exceptionalism coming back to haunt them at a time when they are heading towards their own failure as a democratic state. The same can be said of the UK, and needless to say the pariah status of Putin’s Russia.
Needless to say that the guile of those states from the late 19th through 20thC has brought them, along with Israel, Palestine and the balance of the Arab and Muslim world into a disastrous entanglement. By their wielding of self-interested power and dominion, they have drawn their relos in the remaining ‘West’ into an almost impassable imbroglio they are all faced with, as the rest of the world looks on agog, and with great trepidation. Can anyone afford the ‘West’ to collapse into an globally enervating mayhem?
The current Oz govt’s two-state solution is well understood across the globe, as well as its staunch criticism of Hamas and the Netanyahu / Likud / IDF m.o. But to think that bypassing that policy to an immediate Palestinian State recognition policy serves any immediately affective purpose, is questionable.
Politics never runs well autocratically, it builds resentments and resistance, it is always served best through the art of continuous compromise leading towards universal betterment. There could be no objection to young Payman aspiring to achieve her principles, but falling for the divisive squawk of The Greens seeking populist absolutist votes seems to have brought her disservice, especially in light of Labor’s proposed amendment; “as part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace”, appears autocratic and naive, ignoring Labor’s essential caucus process.
She understandably complained of the 40,000 Palestinian deaths, and said it required immediate action, although she appeared to have ignored Adam Bandt’s statement, “Recognition alone won’t stop the invasion or end the occupation …”. That Bandt continued on to say, ” ….but it will be a big step towards ensuring that Palestinians have the same rights as Israelis to live in peace and security with full rights under international law.” appears to be a concealed but tacit acceptance of the stance Labor has taken.
It’s all a bloody mess, and seemingly impossible to unwind given the roll-on entanglement of threats and ultimatums. Ultimatums behind closed doors, but threats and dramas reserved for plain sight to affect those that might be swayed. Much to be dealt with, including for Senator Payman on how now to bring affect to her voice.
I stand with Senator Faytima Payman!!
While Albanese is busy selling out Australian sovereignty for the USUKA subs debacle, there is at least one Australian politician who understands morality. (Coming from a voter represented by Beetrooter the self confessed adulterer, non-practicing alcoholic misogynist that may sound a little strange).
Penny Wong has made a rare mistake in this matter and should return overseas with all possible haste to solve the Palestine question.
@ Terry Mills: The Greens are always ”playing silly buggers” to catch the attention of the Murdoch Media Monopoly in the vain hope that Australian voters will not see through their self-serving desire for an autocratic state under Fourher Bandt.
Dutton has been trying to stir a racial divide in Australia. Dutton has pugnaciously sided with hard right Jewish groups in Australia and has been overtly anti Palestinian. Albanese has worked hard to keep things civil. Violence has rightly been condemned by all sides. The greens have been on the edge of aggressive protest against Labor – oddly not against Dutton and co even though he has been so supportive of Israel’s genocidal war against Palestinians.
Albanese has suspended Senator Payman, not expelled her as the Labor party rules say apparently.
Greens and the coalition under Dutton are trying to make political mileage from the Israel – Palestinian war, Albo is working to keep Australia a civil and peaceful society.
The Labor party’s National platform on Israel and Palestine, as ratified at their 2023 conference is as follows :
Israel and Palestine
1. The National Conference:
a. Supports the recognition and right of Israel and Palestine to exist as two states
within secure and recognised borders;
b. Calls on the Australian Government to recognise Palestine as a state; and
c. Expects that this issue will be an important priority for the Australian Government.
The current issue seems very much to be about who announces the Labor government’s platform and brings it into a formal policy position. The Greens want to be seen as leading the government on this issue whereas the government claim the right to take leadership : it’s a pissing contest, in fact we are all in agreement on this, it’s just the timing and the politics.
https://www.alp.org.au/media/3569/2023-alp-national-platform.pdf
“Blame the Greens” has almost become the current flavor of “blame Labor”.
Just the Greens playing ” silly buggers”,
Or a deep concern at ethnic cleansing in Gaza, the horrifics of what has gone on, the suffering for no reason.
We are getting to the Assange level, the denialism and “messaging” is farcical. She no more than stated the obvious and no one can tell me that the government isn’t lying over Gaza, this against genuine working class solidarity and the provocation the lying must engender in people like Sen Payman.
To employ “solidarity” as an excuse is morally bankrupt and represents the triumph of the Surveillance State.over in an over genuine working class solidarity, not just the people of Gaza, but also, for making us accessory to barbarism and murder.
Paul
The UN Security Council passed a resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire for the month of Ramadan [11 Mar 2024 – Tue, 9 Apr 2024], the immediate and unconditional release of hostages and the urgent need to expand the flow of aid into Gaza – there were 14 votes in favour with the United States abstaining – Israel ignored this demand.
The International Court of Justice recognised that the Palestinian people had a right to protection from genocide inflicted by the IDF – Israel denied that genocide was occurring
In May we were told that a basis for a ceasefire had been put forward by Egypt and Qatar and would come in three stages that would see an initial halt in the fighting leading to lasting peace and the withdrawal of Israeli troops from Palestinian territory. The proposed agreement, which Hamas agreed to but Netanyahu never acknowledged, despite the US saying that Israel approved, would also ensure the release of Israeli captives in Gaza as well as an unspecified number of Palestinians held in Israeli jails – there has been no progress due largely to Israel’s intransigence and the slaughter continues.
Last week in the senate in Canberra the Greens introduced a motion to the effect that the Australian Government ‘recognise the State of Palestine’. Labor added the words “as part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace”.
So the revised motion would read “the Australian Government recognise the State of Palestine as part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace”.
The Greens (with the coalition and a hapless senator Payman) refused to support the amendment even though they knew that their motion lacked substance and would fail.
I share your frustration but how can we progress our position when, by any measure, it seems that the Greens are playing games with no tangible contribution to the peace process in Gaza ?
Paul, do you really believe that the Greens motion could act to stop the genocide occurring in Gaza? Senator Payman crossed the floor, breaking a well known Labor rule, to side with the Greens for what real purpose?
All it has achieved is more ammunition for Dutton’s coalition and the Greens attempts to stir up racial divide and even violent protest.
Honestly, are folk driving me to drink?
The Greens motion, a last ditch effort to get Labor to come to break free of denial and acknowledge the REAL truth?
Anon.E.Rodent please reread my post and think more closely on my reasoning on this.
I am not against the rule, but its disgusting misuse by trying to ensure a policy so against any Labor notion of REAL soliidarity, in this case with the forty thousand working class people destroyed in this dreadful way and two million more survivng in a smashed rubble without food, medical or water.
The Spud must have been polishing his cannonball head when a message apeared in moving print across his forehead:
“Albooo…Albooo is not going to Washington.”
Gasp, he’s going to call an election! thought the Spud.
“Yeess…yeess, start campaigning now. This message has been brought to you by the Gina Rinehart Psychic Lead Skull Service.”
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/albanese-scraps-washington-visit-amid-cost-of-living-pressures-20240702-p5jqbc.html
It is sad that religious people are quick to ease their conscience.
The abuse of trust and honesty by the muslim nutter senator, is a prime case of god interfering with the principles that make Labor a democratic party.
She should have argued her case in caucus and found a solution to her god or resigned.
ps The bandit must be laughing his tits off. As a further cut to labor he has let SHY out.
Anyone, who thinks the loonies are not seat winners first and foremost, is a simpleton.(why should the bandit not dream of a national party style ministry)
Have a look at the comments from the ‘lakemba mosque’ sending Sunnis into a frenzy of ‘teal’ proportions.
Then have a look at sunni 16, shia 18 and jewish 15 schools in sydney..
Then look at the catholic schools in sydney 150
Not even christ knows how many protestant schools,
FFS, imagine the cash going to these religious outlets.
pps
I guess it is obvious why dutton and dandt wouldn’t have this problem
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/article/2024/jul/02/former-dissenting-labor-mp-backs-fatima-payman-and-says-party-needs-to-reconsider-rules
Tucker Carlson on his Aussie tour called journos ‘castarated robots’. This also could be applied to Labor politicians who, by voting on Party lines and not according to what is in their heart, are puppets displaying a lack of conscience. We either have the use of conscience votes or we have a robot society.
Paul
Thanks for the Guardian article and what it seems to be saying is that the ALP convention on solidarity may need refinement but I note that they already allow their senators and members freedom to vote on matters of conscience. What the ALP seem to be trying to avoid is their members crossing the floor to vote with other parties : Payman could have abstained of course.
It appears that the Greens will reintroduce their motion but not with the Labor amendment so it would seem to me that their concern is not about a ceasefire or an enduring peace in Gaza but more about base politics.
I stand with Fatima Payman. Unlike the Albanese Labor government, Fatima Payman stands for Labor values of justice, fairness; a fair go for all, equality and above all dignity through human rights. Tom Uren would roll over in his grave seeing the spinelessness of the Albanese Labor government. Many Labor true believers are looking to take their vote else where. AUKUS was the beginning of the end but Labors weak and pathetic stance on the rogue pariah state of Israel, that has broken international law, the Geneva Convention and law of common decency, was the last straw for many Labor voters .
The Israel experiment has proven to be a terrible mistake and a gross failure.
Not only have Zionists stolen Palestinian land but the Zionists stole the Jewish religion to do it. Zionists have forever shamed the Jewish religion.
The Zionists genocidal war on Palestinians is not just a war on Palestinians. It is a Zionist war on humanity, Christian values, international law, common decency, freedom and the Jewish religion itself.
The manufactured and contrived outrage by Zionists use of anti sematism to censor debate is the last refuge of the demented scoundrels. The cynica, contrivedl and contemptuous use of antisemitism by the Zionist propagandist demeans and devalues the pain and suffering experienced by those of the Jewish faith at the hands of German Nazis. How is it the responsibility of the Palestinian people to right the wrongs of the atrocities of Nazi Germans upon the Jewish people.
sucinct posting from ajogrady.
It is a sad irony that whilst the world is trying to achieve a lasting peace in Gaza and recognition of Palestine and on a day when we can expect another motion from the Greens in our Senate, Netanyahu has stolen more land in the occupied West Bank.
This from today’s New York Times :
“Israel last week approved the largest seizure of land in the occupied West Bank in three decades, according to Peace Now, an Israeli group that monitors settler activity in the territory. On June 25, the Israeli authorities announced the appropriation of around five square miles of land in the Jordan Valley; Peace Now said it was the largest such seizure since the Oslo Accords in 1993. Israel has now seized roughly nine square miles of the territory this year, making 2024 by far the peak year for appropriations, according to Peace Now. Building or expanding Israeli settlements in the seized areas is a key aim of far-right members of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s governing coalition. Bezalel Smotrich, a longtime settler activist and influential government minister, announced Wednesday that around 5,000 housing units in Israeli settlements in the West Bank would be advanced in coming days.”
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/03/world/israel-gaza-war-hamas#the-un-says-4-out-of-5-gazans-are-displaced-and-other-news
ajogrady I agree with the recognition of Palestine, and am angry at the genocide occurring at the hands of the Israeli government. The war against Palestinians will go down in history as genocide by the Israeli govt.
While I may agree with the sentiment behind Senator Payman’s action, I think it is a political play by other parties and she is a pawn in a bigger scheme.
Like Cory Bernardi and Jacquie Lambie, Fatima Payman has quit the party she stood for in the senate election and seems destined to form her own party representing narrow Islamic interests and in particular Gaza.
Bernardi and Lambie adopted a similar position and in the former case it didn’t work out and Cory Bernardi ended up leaving politics and after a brief and unremarkable stint as a SKY after Dark host he disappeared from sight.
Jacquie Lambie set up her own network but, significantly, she continued to work for the people of Tasmania where she remains a popular Senator.
Fatima Payman found the Labor Party unpalatable and now it seems that she will continue from the cross bench to promote the Islamic and Gaza cause when she should actually be representing the people of WA who elected her to do just that. It probably won’t work out too well for her in the long run but, as she still has another four years in her senate term who knows what she will achieve on behalf of Palestine.
Personally I am opposed to politicians jumping ship after having been elected on a party ticket and I believe that senator Payman should resign from the senate if she feels that she cannot adequately represent the people of Western Australia broadly. There is some comment in the media that she is very much being pushed by her husband and his political leanings and that the WA senate is just a vehicle for establishing a political platform.
I think the young senator is too polite to point out that Albo, and his ministers, find it essential to not be critical of Israel, otherwise he could be hit by the dreaded antisemitic position.
Caucus knows this, and complies.
Anyone who has taken a interest in UK politics will recall that Jeremy Corbin was not sufficiently grateful to the pro Israel lobby, and he was quickly given his marching orders.
It does mean that whatever nasty crimes come out of the Zionist state, we are required to grant them immunity from criticism, otherwise a change of leader is an immediate consequence, and left or right is immaterial.
drivel, dougie, Albo has not only criticised the zionist attacks in palestine but has supported a two state solution in the un.
The religious nutter has sipped the cup of power and is drunk.
wam, you said earlier “She should have argued her case in caucus and found a solution to her god or resigned.”
That’s a reasonable argument.
“The abuse of trust and honesty by the muslim nutter…The religious nutter has sipped the cup of power and is drunk.”
That’s not a reasonable argument.
In fact, it’s pathetic.
But it does give a valuable insight into your character.
I heard Payman speaking to ABC RN this morning – I am now totally confused !
She says that she opposes the Labor policy of a two state solution (I.e. Palestine and Israel) yet she crossed the floor to vote with a Greens motion to create a Palestinian state ( i.e. alongside Israel). So that is two states which is the UN policy and Australia’s policy.
She says that she wants to continue to represent the people of WA as an independent senator but she also says that she may set up her own party which may be an Islamic party so how does that represent the people of WA.
I’m confused !
well said, Steve,
Argument or observation or opinion or thought or prejudice? whatever, I do write trite oops tripe.
I am saddened and angry to see children and young women dressed to hide their hair because men showing it makes them guilty of inciting men.
My character is disturbed by my long held opinions, especially involving the power of women, the blindness of religion and the intent of the loonies under the bandit.
ps
valuable’? My first is not?
TM,
If an aspirant senator felt obligated to put a pasta colander on their noggin every time they went out in public, I would begin to question their ability to represent anyone who didn’t cleave to belief in the Flying Spaghetti Monster.
“My first is not?”
Of course it is wam.
Valuable, because it shows that you’re capable of logical thought.
Precious capabilities like that should not be misused.
I also have reservations about certain beliefs, but it’s rarely useful to be judgemental.
I can scarcely believe the pile on over a young woman’s decision to follow her conscience.For Labor,it’s a hanging offence, for the racist Dutton,it’s the first move in a Muslim takeover bid,for the usual suspects in the Muckstream media,they are falling over one another to invent the most ridiculous and outrageous theories.Neither Labor nor the other unrepentant cretins are worthy of government,and it will become more stark at the next election. The duopoly are looking at their demise,and their reactions suggest that they know it.Payman is the scapegoat du jour.
Senator Payman’s family are refugees from Gaza, settled in Australia and she has stood up for her people, calling for the Palestinians to be recognised through a two state arrangement, something Labor has asked to worked towards in a peace settlement of the current crisis.
It is insensitive of Labor to not support her in this. Her people have suffered since 1948 as they have been denied basic human rights and collectively punished at the slightest provocation.
The October 7 bloodbath which cost around 2000 Israeli lives has been answered with a death toll of almost 40,000 people and an almost total devastation of the Gaza strip, home to 2.3 million people, but now uninhabitable and while attention is on Gaza, Palestinians on the West Bank are being pushed aside for more illegal (Under international law) settlements are being constructed.
Senator Payman’s appeals within Caucus and her crossing the floor to show support for her people should be respected by the Labor Party.
I have been reading about the Warsaw Ghetto and the Jewish resistance during that time.
Poland’s Jews were corralled into a small space and systematically slaughtered, sent off to either labour camps or the death camps, their dwellings, such as they were razes to the ground.
I can see that being re-enacted on a larger scale in Gaza by descendants of survivors of the holocaust which included the Warsaw Ghetto.
Why can we not recognised Palestinian’s right to a homeland, why can we not join so many other nations and recognise that as a basic human right?
How can we punish Senator Payman for demanding that for her people
What I am reading now suggests that there is denial concerning the elephant in the room.
Her family is from Afghanistan, and she has a faith , and she chooses that headgear.
Above and beyond that she simply asks this country to recognize Palestine, as it recognizes Israel.
Why does the the labour government baulk at this?
Maybe because it is critical of Israel who deny the existence of Palestine/
I know its a bloody big eliphant, and ignoring it makes us all delusional.
Bert, Fatima Payman is not from Palestine! For goodness sakes, how difficult is it to a little bit of simple research before rushing to express a thought or opinion and then hitting the Post Comment button?
Facts matter, as always, and untruths simply muddy the water as well as diminishing the credibility of the purveyor of those wrong statements.
Bert
Payman’s family came from Afghanistan.
Nobody argues that she should not follow her conscience, the confusion here has been created by her crossing the floor for no apparent reason other than to harm the Labor party.
The Greens proposed a motion : that “the Australian Government recognise the State of Palestine”.
Labor put up an amendment to add the words “as part of a peace process in support of a two-state solution and a just and enduring peace”.
The confusion arose when she refused to accept this sensible amendment that gave the motion context, the Greens also refused the amendment and of course the coalition voted against it as they always do. There was no need for her to cross the floor and vote with the Greens and the coalition, it made no sense and certainly didn’t assist the Palestinian cause.
TM,
I know its a scary thought but the “Two State solution” may not be a practical outcome, as has been written about ad nausium.
I am a fan of Anthony Lowenstein who has the “one State solution” in mind, and when you do some in depth thought he could be right.
A useful tool to get started is to recognise both parties, And thats what I think the Senator had in mind.
Douglas
I hear what you say.
By the way, folks somebody is creating mischief about section 44 citizenship issues for Payman and it’s not the ALP.
Payman went through the ALP screening process and did all that was possible to renounce her Afghan citizenship and the ALP have acknowledged that.
It is most unlikely that the HIgh Court (court of disputed returns) would step in, as they didn’t on Josh Frydenberg where it was found that by leaving Hungary his family had effectively renounced that citizenship as there was no other formal procedure available to them.
Similarly the act of leaving Afghanistan would be sufficient recognition of renouncement of citizenship as the Taliban provide no other avenue to do so.
I thought I’d mention this now as there are those who are spreading misinformation and attributing it to the ALP.
The Labor amendment containing the words “as part of a two-state solution” for a ceasefire is a policy that has been rejected by Israel a number of times so how could Payman vote for something that she knows [and Labor knows] is impractical and unattainable because of the zionists’ intransigence? They know the zionists won’t let them vote for recognition of Palestine and so they play with words to defeat any attempt to do so.
I’m now totally anti-semantic!
Thanks for the giggle,Captain.I can’t imagine Labor gaslighting us,of course we know those on the other side never do that,eh Boofhead?
Excellent article in the Guardian about this kerfuffle by Sisonke Msimang,which should give pause for thought to the Labor apologists.Some other pertinent reports as well.
I apologise for my error in Payman’s nationality.
Have spent some time recently with expat Palestinians and am a little overwhelmed by the kerfuffle.