44 comments

1. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 11:06 am

   It seems to me that if someone can get through a whole teaching degree without at least ending up in the top 30% for maths and English then perhaps they need to reassess their course rather than the students.

2. gangey1959September 19, 2015 at 11:26 am

   Very interesting reading once again Kaye Lee.
   Apart from people who wish to teach new migrants ‘Straylyan as a 2nd language’ for which a Cert1 in getting out of bed is the only prerequisite, I would have thought that gaining entrance to a tertiary course to become a teacher would require the necessary skills of writing, wreading and writhmatic.
   The current minister for education (and use of the C word in Parliament) is as much of a joke as our thankfully former pm.
   Your last sentence really hit the nail on the head. We need, or indeed HAVE to be qualified to do almost everything that generates us an income. Driving, teaching, crossing guard, babysitting etc. We now even have to qualify for being unemployed, especially if we are young(ish).
   The only position(s) for which no qualifications AT ALL are required is politician. At any level. And for the privilege of being in the position of being able to dictate to the populace what we must think, eat, drink, breath and pay for, a politician becomes counter-productive and massively overpaid, even to the point of a pension which may outstrip their years of service, does not have to take any future earnings into consideration, and includes extras like travel and accommodation.
   What a load of shite.
   Mr pyne should piss off to the back-benches and sit beside his ex.

3. guestSeptember 19, 2015 at 11:45 am

   The usual conservative “back to basics” claim. At what level of schooling do students go beyond basics? Phonics? It was never entirely successful ever. Pyne might like to demonstrate the phonics of the word ‘yacht’. Aborigines and the Chinese cease to exist. Of course there is an FTA with China and some confusion about the role of Chinese workers in Oz, but any sign of threat will justify a $70Bn increase in spending on naval upgrades. As for History, remember how it was the conservative claim that History was essential knowledge and could not be watered down with the presence of other subjects, as in Studies of Society and Environment ? Now Geography can be joined with History in an integrated subject (just as Science can be a meld of Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Botany…OK?).

   If there is anything which gets up the noses of teachers it is this perpetual reinventing of the wheel. And surprise, surprise, after all the conservative complaints about a centralised curriculum out of Canberra, along comes Mr Pyne – from Canberra.

   So we are to assume there were no complaints from the States?

4. Carol TaylorSeptember 19, 2015 at 11:45 am

   On the changes would bring teaching closer in line with professions such as engineering and medicine...then doubtless teachers will also be looking forward to receiving the same salary as doctors and engineers..

5. JeanetteSeptember 19, 2015 at 11:58 am

   Haha! lol could not agree more last statement, yes any dumb ass can be a politician and those with intelligence and integrity better run as independent as anyone tied to a party will soon be gobbled up by the madness of the party.

   Sadly it seems some voters have swallowed Marvel Man Malcolm’s 300 word mutterings. Still better than Mad Monk’s 3 word slogans.

   However I feel no better, this government is determined to set Australia back 20 years.

   Harmony Day is really needed to help achieve some real reflection and empathy for those in conflict etc. and even just for the person sitting next to us. Primary school is where it all starts by high school too late for some.

   Pimple Pyne should be put out to pasture. I’ll vomit if he gets Defense what a twat!

6. babyjewels10September 19, 2015 at 12:00 pm

   Disgusting. These morons still haven’t clicked that the majority of Australians don’t want our history tampered with nor do we want the majority of the legislation they’ve pushed onto us.
   Especially swapping reality for their religion. Labor better pick up their game.

7. corvus boreusSeptember 19, 2015 at 12:01 pm

   Phonic spelling.
   I could sound a rough cough when I bow to the bow whittled from a bough I bought whilst walking a windy road on a windy day.
   All very logical.

   Now for some scriptures.

8. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 12:03 pm

   “Those that can, do…those that can’t, teach.”

   “They only work from 9 to 3 and they get twelve weeks holiday a year.”

   “You don’t even have to pass your HSC to get into teaching.”

   The excuses I have heard over the years to keep teachers lowly paid. Teachers bear an enormous responsibility. Every child goes to school. Every child is influenced by the teachers they have through their lives in both positive and negative ways. The future well being of our society is largely in teachers’ hands as they help our children on their way to adulthood.

   Any rise in teachers’ pay will be fought by their employer who does not recognise the investment we make with quality teaching.

   Having said that, the best teachers I know didn’t do it for the money. They are very talented people who had the choice of many career paths. They chose teaching because it is a calling. It’s a pity we don’t listen to them more when the bureaucrats decide what is important in a classroom.

   Teacher mentoring has been shown to bring great results even with larger classes. Having two teachers in the room can be of enormous help to inexperienced teachers.

9. corvus boreusSeptember 19, 2015 at 12:16 pm

   As demonstrated by Pyne’s announcement, teachers also tend to have the programmes they follow and methods they employ, thus the results they achieve, incessantly tampered with by politicians and bureaucrats wanting to imprint their unqualified ideological opinions.

10. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 12:29 pm

    did not agree to make STEM (now STEMM by the way) subjects compulsory in high school, partly because they do not have the teachers to do it.

    Been a shortage of (specialist) Maths and Science teachers for as long as I can remember. While the reasons can be many and varied, two are ‘stand outs’. First, teachers with these particular qualifications have skills that are in greater demand in the wider economy. For ‘them’ there is the option of ‘separating’ (when times get tough) and doing so for increased financial rewards. Second, teachers in these disciplines (sometimes) do not have the ability to ‘communicate’ (broadly defined) as effectively as teachers in other areas. There is extensive research on that issue that looks at the way ‘text books’ are used, their preference for ‘symbolic’ interaction (rather than ‘verbal’ forms) and the like.

    Certainly, teachers of maths and science are over represented in the ‘teacher at risk’ category. (The labelling of same accelerates the separating rate.)

11. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 12:52 pm

    Matters Not,

    Whilst I broadly agree with your comment I do remember one end of term when my maths class rolled in on the last day and I said get out your books. They looked at me and said “Are you serious?” I replied “Of course. Holidays don’t start till 3pm and it would be remiss of me to waste your valuable time.” To which they said “Thank God, we have watched 4 videos so far today.”

12. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 12:54 pm

    heard over the years to keep teachers lowly paid

    Yes they are not well paid, particularly the ‘experienced’ teachers. In terms of the State Budgets there’s so many of them. Even a small pay rise when multiplied by 40 or 50 thousand (or more) really mounts up. Same with nurses. The Education budget is only second to the Health budget and together they make up approximately half of State Budgets.

    Second both nursing and teaching are dominated by women. While union membership for teachers is in the order of 95%, this does not mean that all are active members. The brutal reality is that for many women it’s a ‘second’ income that can be earned while still actively engaged in child rearing. Militancy does not sit easily.

13. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 1:07 pm

    They can be riled up when necessary. I remember a lot of strike days in my early teaching years. They try not to because they know how it inconveniences everyone who regard us as reliable babysitters. Many of us would register as being on strike meaning we got no pay but still go to school to supervise kids that turned up . Schools still have Fed reps who attend regular union meetings and hold school meetings. Push them too hard and they will push back. I agree having part-time and casual staff may lessen resolve but peer group pressure plays a part when the cause is just. It’s not the militancy that doesn’t sit easily with nurses and teachers….it’s that they take their responsibility so seriously – they know people are relying on them.

14. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 1:13 pm

    a pity we don’t listen to them more when the bureaucrats decide what is important in a classroom

    I think we do. Two points. The bureaucrats in Education Departments, apart from those in Corporate Services, come overwhelmingly from an education background. They’ve been there, done that. They also keep in touch with all levels through frequent meetings with Principals, Subject Associations, Unions and the like.

    Second, the ‘curriculum frameworks’ are usually (almost always) written by teachers. Sometimes such teachers are on ‘secondment’ or working ‘part-time’. It’s not Departments that have curriculum responsibilities but independent Statutory bodies, operated in the main by practitioners.

    Having said that, really ‘stupid’ decisions can invariably be traced to ‘Politicians’ who believe they know better. Pyne is a classic example.

15. VickiSeptember 19, 2015 at 1:18 pm

    People who really want to be teachers, I believe, do so from a calling within them to teach the truth. While this may not apply to strictly everybody, it is my firm belief that for most, it is at the core. Therefore, I find it sad that the very ridiculous mr pyne (capitals not used intentionally) would aspire to the elite view to edit or disregard the truth of history and rewrite it by deletion and ignorance. This notion aspires very firmly to what the New World Order wants our children to learn. More robots to feed the machine, free of imagination and individuality. Please drop off a cliff mr pyne, and leave the education of our children and the proper treatment of our teachers to those who really have a clue.

16. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 1:30 pm

    I am most concerned about the push for Direct Instruction. This may work with some children but, as all good teachers know, we all learn differently and this does not in any way allow for that fact. It also stifles creativity and innovation where a child is bound by their teacher’s limits. Teachers should be a conduit for a child to what they need to develop their talents, not a dictator of what should be learned and how it should be learned. The system should be flexible enough to cater to individuals with a variety of approaches.

    You may think we maths teachers just taught from the textbook, and I admit we couldn’t survive without one, but I always said to the kids that if they didn’t understand it was because my explanation was bad and I would persevere until I found the link for that particular kid to want to learn, the explanation that they could relate to, the application that made it relevant for them.

17. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 1:44 pm

    push for Direct Instruction

    When Abbott was on TI and other islands he also visited the ‘Cape’ and went to the state school at Bamaga. He lauded the children and the school in general praising the ‘outcomes’ of Direct Instruction (championed by Noel Pearson).

    When he departed, the President of the P&C (husband of the current Principal) ‘rained on his tea party’ as it were, by pointing out that at Bamaga, ‘Direct Instruction’ was never used and explained why.

    As far as I know the MSM didn’t run with it but the local paper certainly did. Torres News is widely read in that area.

18. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 2:21 pm

    They reported it on the ABC Matters Not.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-28/tony-abbott-didnt-do-homework-on-remote-school/6731542

19. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 2:27 pm

    do so from a calling within them to teach the truth

    Interesting to look at the rise of public education in England and Scotland (circa mid 19th century). The kids overwhelmingly came from poor backgrounds. Certain questions required resolution. What to teach? Who should be the teachers? What should be the teachers ‘motivating force’?

    First, the main goal (curriculum) was teaching them to read because it was continuous Bible reading that would make them ‘good’. Writing was not considered desirable initially because it could lead to spreading ‘dangerous’ ideas. It was only when businesses became large and required skilled labour beyond family members that writing was thought necessary. Same with other subjects.

    Second, the teachers. It was unthinkable that the offspring of the ‘well-to-do’ would undertake the teaching of the poor. Way below their station. The only choice was to recruit from the ‘lower classes’. But that was risky because instead of transmitting the status quo the teachers might teach ‘rebellion’, given their own class location. Which leads to the ‘motivating’ ideology.

    Religion was big in those days and being in the business of rescuing the poor from ‘evil’ (broadly defined) was of high priority. Thus was born the ‘missionary ideology’ which still influences teachers today. Teachers are like Missionaries rescuing their students from evil in all its forms including ‘ignorance’, ‘error’ and the like. It’s an ideology that works well. Keeps them in their place. And it’s cheap.

20. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 2:38 pm

    “Teachers are like Missionaries rescuing their students from evil in all its forms including ‘ignorance’, ‘error’ and the like. It’s an ideology that works well. Keeps them in their place.”

    I so disagree. Teachers lead their students to question, to research, to analyse, to debate, hopefully to love learning. Very few do propaganda. (state schools…I mean. plenty in religious and elitist schools)

21. GoranSeptember 19, 2015 at 2:51 pm

    Teaching is the only profession where absolutely every member of the public feels entitled to give their “expert” opinion. Whether it be the curriculum, behaviour management, teacher capabilities, pay, how and what they should teach etc. etc. No other profession would allow that amount of interference by any Tom, Dick or Harry who feels like it.

    Matters Not,
    If you do a little research you will find that those bureaucrats in ED you speak of are overwhelmingly people who could not hack it as teachers and would have very limited classroom experience. Hence some very stupid decisions made by Departments.
    On your second point. Again, if you dig a little deeper you will find that many of the decision-makers, when it comes to the curriculum, are University lecturers and professors who push their own agendas and views (not necessarily particularly good for primary or high schools).

    I find it incredible that in 2015 we are not talking about how archaic and ineffective our education system is. Simply put the system that might have worked 30 or 40 years ago is not working anymore. There are many reasons for that. But instead of talking about reforming the whole system (pre-school, primary, secondary, tertiary) not just parts of it, we have dimwits like Pyne trying to push us back to the beginning of last century. Everyone is “concerned” about how our students are falling behind internationally when it comes to literacy, numeracy and science yet not many have the courage to look at the systemic causes of the problem. It’s always easier to blame the ‘incompetent” teachers (not saying that there’s not a number of those around).

    It will take a brave, intelligent, forward-looking government to take the necessary steps.

    P.S. In case anyone is wondering, yes I am a teacher.

22. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 3:00 pm

    Kaye, I had a bit of ‘tongue-in-cheek’ when I wrote some of that. Perhaps ‘were’ (Past Tense) is more suitable than ‘are’, but there are still remnants re motivation. One wonders how many ‘professions’ go the extra mile without payment for overtime for example? Not that I’ve heard of any teachers being paid for overtime.

    But how you define ‘teaching’ is certainly not how Pyne et al want it defined.

23. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 3:32 pm

    My nephew is currently on a rugby tour of England. It’s school holidays but some good soul has volunteered to go (mind you the world cup may have made that a less onerous task than usual). My daughter went to Cambodia on a charity mission when she was at school. Once again, teachers gave up their holidays. I have taken groups away on a week long excursion – they were astonished to realise, when I got shitty with them at 2am, that I wasn’t getting paid any extra to be there.

    I know many teachers that have paid for and attended courses in their holidays to upgrade their qualifications. One language teacher knew she would have to teach Japanese the next year so she spent her 6 weeks Xmas break doing an intensive course to learn it first. I have been forced at times to teach outside my subject area. It’s tough. But that’s what the job can entail. I remember when they introduced navigation into a maths course. I spent a day out on a boat learning how to plot courses and steer by navigation markers before I had to teach the kids.

    It is hard for people to realise how much extra teachers have to do to be good at their job. Constant ideological course changes don’t help.

24. eli nesSeptember 19, 2015 at 3:45 pm

    There needs to be an entrance assessment for university currently pretty well 100% of QLD TEACHING STUDENTS and a majority in every state have NEVER sat for any exam in any subject(other than year 9 NAPLAN). This layman suggests 80% of teaching degree students are gathering debt that they can never repay and the debt is compounding to 700000 by the time they are 60 and a million on retirement. I have been bombarding labor with these stats since the rabbutt anointed institutes(his daughter was ‘scholarshipped’ by a friend in one such institute who, once provided students with laptops on ‘signature’ these were the most try to hock items in cash converters by dropouts now these excited business give discounts to advertisers and agents, as well) with access to the public purse via school leavers and the poorest paid workers who can be scammed by ‘educaters’ for up to $90000
    this was pyne’s chance, any idiot would be confident that canning would not be lost and the rabbott being so on the nose plus death sympathy anything lees than 10% loss would be good but turmcopper has a good chance of gaining a swing.
    Armed with those odds, pyne took the plunge and what a success. if the idIot religious crank wins easily the subs go to SA plus another spate of slogans and DEBT CRISIS LIES before a NOV ELECTION which will return this dangerous mob with a majority in both houses.
    What legacy for the kiss the ring jewelling jesuits.
    One humiliated by opening his mouth the other for not. One finished his dirty work the other ploughing on.

25. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 3:58 pm

    Goran, it’s always good to get a ‘resonse’, to find someone who will engage. You open with:

    entitled to give their “expert” opinion

    Indeed! Everyone went to school and therefore everyone is an ‘expert’. It follows that because I’ve flown many miles then I can pilot a plane and because I’ve crossed many bridges I can … As for doctors … Re Tom, Dick and Harry (and if you do a bit of research) you might find that Jan, Fran and Dianne have strong views as well. Sometimes even stronger because the children concerned have been with them for some considerable time.

    In my experience those who can’t hack it as teachers ‘get out’, but I do concede the ‘belief’ that bureaucrats are teachers who can’t ‘hack it’ is alive and well. And it’s not confined to Education Departments but other areas of government as well. Universities are populated along similar lines.

    Perhaps it belongs in the same category as ‘Those who can’t – teach’? I’ll do some research.

    As for ‘curriculum development’ I do concede that those who have academic expertise in particular areas do exert considerable (content) influence but is there any other way? Some would argue that ‘unions’ should not be represented in the curriculum development process. Nor teachers for that matter because their expertise lies outside the ‘content’; anyway when compared with the learned ‘professor’. Not that I am of that view.

    incredible that in 2015 we are not talking about how archaic and ineffective our education system is

    Can only agree. But I do note also that our current schooling system (different from education) serves an unequal society very well because it facilitates the integration of the younger generation into the logic of the present system and brings about conformity to it. On the other hand education should …

    Good to hear from you.

26. JexpatSeptember 19, 2015 at 4:18 pm

    The scuttlebutt seems to be that Pyne goes to defence -but that doesn’t mean LNP education policy changes one iota.

    It just become “quieter.”

27. win jeavonsSeptember 19, 2015 at 4:23 pm

    Because they went to school many people think they know what a teacher does and see fit to comment. As a (retired) science/maths teacher I loved the work, but had to keep studying to keep up to date and keep challenging my students. No extra pay for higher qualifications, no overtime or time off in lieu for running camps or attending out of hours sessions and sometimes little respect . If we want good teachers we have to look at how we treat and encourage them. When HECS first came in neither teachers or nurses had to pay. We are SO SHORT-SIGHTED!

28. SoozSeptember 19, 2015 at 4:50 pm

    In defence of less educated politicians, the much-mocked Ricky Muir has so far proven to be a far better democratic representative than university educated politicians such as Pyne, Hockey and Abbott…

29. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 5:03 pm

    I agree Ricky Muir is trying but he is susceptible to pressure such as ScoMo exerted when he got the kids on Nauru to ring Muir. He doesn’t know enough to realise that TPVs are a real problem. If he was a little more politically aware he would know the controversy surrounding them.

    Jacqui Lambie no doubt has good intentions too but when asked about the carbon tax she said she thought it should be 3 or 4% which showed she had absolutely no idea what the carbon tax was.

    Trying, as an independent, to get your head around all the legislation that comes your way is an onerous task that should not be given to those who are incapable of it or they will always be prey to their ‘advisers’.

30. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 5:08 pm

    doesn’t mean LNP education policy changes one iota

    Not sure that they have one, if coherence is to be a hallmark. Pyne was into slogans. “Teacher Quality”. “Robust Curriculum”. “Parental Involvement”. “Back to the Basics” and when he became deep and meaningful he spoke about “Subsidiarity” defined in terms of:

    an organizing principle that matters ought to be handled by the smallest, lowest or least centralized competent authority. Political decisions should be taken at a local level if possible, rather than by a central authority

    .
    While he’s not alone with that view, it does fit nicely with his religion of choice which after the First Vatican Council espoused such an organising principle.

    In public education, Dr David Kemp was a very strong advocate when he was the Federal Minister. Kemp hasn’t disappeared from the scene, because along with Andrew Norton, he’s still heavily involved in the higher education debate. And I won’t mention the IPA.

31. John LordSeptember 19, 2015 at 6:00 pm

    My jaw dropped at your reference to the top 30%. How on earth are they approved for the course in the first place.

32. diannaartSeptember 19, 2015 at 6:57 pm

    There is to be a greater focus on Western civilisation and our Christian heritage.

    Because we aren’t aware enough, already. Really?

    Not exactly representative of a multicultural nation is it Mr Pyne?

33. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 6:58 pm

    My daughter is sitting for the test next week so I will have a better idea what it is like then. She hasn’t graduated yet but they can, as a kind of one-off introductory thing, sit for it for free this year. Next year (her final year) they will have to pay so she is getting in early. She did a practice paper for maths and said it was simple.

34. RossleighSeptember 19, 2015 at 7:09 pm

    When it comes to western civilisation, I’m in favour of it, and the sooner it can be done the better!

35. Kaye LeeSeptember 19, 2015 at 7:21 pm

    Perhaps studying western civilisation will give us a chance to realise all the mistakes we made. What flabbergasts me is that we are happy to throw away the knowledge of our First People. They are to be consigned to “history” and occasionally looked at for their “art”. How bloody patronising. We won’t look at social and legal problems that may have been caused by our treatment of the traditional owners of the land. We won’t discuss better ways of closing the gap. We will have lessons about our Christian heritage and how business built a country that had been sustainably populated for tens of thousands of years before we came along. We will employ more truancy officers because that will make school worth going to. We will fine parents who don’t send their children to school. Force and punishment are such wonderful ways to garner co-operation.

36. RossleighSeptember 19, 2015 at 8:34 pm

    Yep, you’re probably right, trying to civilise the west is probably just contrary to their nature…

37. eli nesSeptember 19, 2015 at 10:32 pm

    dear kaye,
    Your 11.08 post is ancient history where maths and english were prerequisites now in name only. Over the last 9 years, my grandchildren have been traipsing through primary school. The last two of zero population growth, four, had naplan 3/5 this year.
    My wife taught English lit and American history and I taught maths, science plus many ‘bits’ as asked beginning when high schools had exams 10, 11 and 12 and universities took the top 10%.
    High school teachers were ALL able to teach english literature, maths and science up to grade 10 exams. Primary teachers were trained at a teacher’s college with one or two men from each cohort taking a university subject for career purposes as such ‘high flying’ was unnecessary for teaching(and perhaps not worth wasting on women who lost permanency or left on marriage) There was a sliding scale of pay, general, craft, PE, primary and infant teachers. Teaching was a profession and the gap between teacher and taught was usually great enough to ‘Teachers lead their students to question, to research, to analyse, to debate, hopefully to love learning’.excuse the background.
    In my journey, with the grandchildren, I have NOT met a teacher who had studied maths, science or english literature at a level advanced enough to pass any year 10 exam. This represents a considerable drop in educational standards.
    On retirement, I popped into relief teaching at primary(including community schools) and middle schools. Those few skerries confirmed the lack of literature, maths and science qualified teachers, revealing staff rooms full of lovely people who would not excel at NAPLAN maths and who could not teach any of the old 1A class subjects and who, if they tried the ‘question with a question’ developing techniques would be burnt out in a term.
    Your 7.21 post was a perfect cutting assessment of WASP/WASC education ministers and their captain’s pick CEOs.
    Sad that possessions are the basis for law and ‘throwing away’ is the basis for modern life,
    Even sadder it that education has never looked at “the knowledge of our First People” so cannot throw it away. 30 years ago I made an arse of myself at the clp government taking millions from fraser and hawke for bilingual education which to the pollies meant Aborigines are the bilingual and the whites english. dumb – the bottom line is school is a waste of money, time and effort until the Aborigines can benefit from school and that will happen when the terrific education outside of schools is accepted as worthy inside of school by both the community and the department.

38. Matters NotSeptember 19, 2015 at 10:34 pm

    they pass a test ranking them in the top 30 per cent of the population for literacy and numeracy

    One wonders what such a test would look like? Are we to rely on John Hattie’s understanding (and underlying definition) of what the population’s ‘literacy and numeracy’ standards look like? If so, is it just possible there’s a ‘conflict of interest’ re Hattie and his failure to declare same, given there’s a fee involved? (Here’s a clue – follow the money and how he’s now in the money.)

    Put simply the number of questions/assumptions far outweigh the number of answers.

    Not sure if I fit into the top 30%.

39. TerrySeptember 20, 2015 at 6:53 am

    When did this all happen ? Have all the states signed up for it ? I thought each state had to agree – as we found with NSW holding out because they found the new curriculum wasn’t academically taxing enough ?
    We have already introduced a number of new curriculums over the past couple of years – with others coming in over the next couple. Are these now defunct ?
    I am now starting to question John Hattie’s motivation and intention as well. He has been lauded as the top of Educational field – but seems to be going along with the “Pine Tree” approach.
    Many questions and a little confused over this announcement.

40. Pingback: Haven’t they sacked Pyne yet? – » The Australian Independent Media Network | olddogthoughts

41. Douglas EvansSeptember 20, 2015 at 9:37 am

    The US is our rightfully acknowledged model for everything excellent about the future. We’ve known that for over half a century now. Pyne is only trying to lead children down the path that they took years ago in the Land of the brave and the Home of the free. You know the path that leads you to Donald Trump as the runaway public favorite to become the presidential nomination of a mainstream political party. The same path which takes you to the point where you denounce public health measures that offer you better quality and more affordable health care, but threaten to restrict the profitability of private health insurers, as a wicked socialist plot. We all want a future like that don’t we? So just stop whingeing and give poor Christopher a break. The dangerous socialists who inhabit this site (who obviously haven’t benefited from the sort of education Minister Pyne has in mind) like to portray him as a prissy, prancing buffoon. Far from it. Anyone who has benefited from the sort of education he wishes to bequeathe us can see Christopher is really a towering beacon, lighting the dark twisting path through the slough of despond to the straight and narrow road leading to the place of deliverance. So there.

42. Paddy ForsayethSeptember 20, 2015 at 10:20 am

    I agree with Goran..’the system is somewhat archaic’. 30 odd years as a Maths Science teacher showed me that the class system works much less than optimum. The chalk and talk way of doing things works for a few students. From my studies of learning I have come to the belief that the core of successful learning is motivation and willingness and the desire to know something, or a topic or a subject. The mixed classes we use will not cater for differences in motivation and differing learning styles. I had the opportunity to teach senior sciences in a small school. My senior classes had 5/6 students and the achievement of these students was very high. In larger schools the absolute number of students achieving high levels remained much the same but there were many in the classes who were mediocre and some unmotivated. It is a complex issue given the diversity of motivation, prior learning skills and learning styles of the students and the teaching styles and interaction of the teacher. I wish this generation of teachers the very best in a complex task which is more social than academic.

43. Kaye LeeSeptember 22, 2015 at 8:29 pm

    From someone far more erudite and in touch than me…..

    http://www.aare.edu.au/blog/?p=1234

44. Matters NotSeptember 22, 2015 at 10:14 pm

    KL, you might notice, that included in your link, is a response from ‘The Kevin’ himself.

    Mention his name anywhere on the ‘net’ and he soon ‘knows’ about it. And often responds.

    On the upside, this knowledge keeps him ‘off the streets’ and therefore lessens the potential damage he does to ‘progressive education’.

    He’d be mortified at the flick of Pyne and irate that Andrews is no longer there. (He worked for Andrews in Canberra). And for a whole range of reasons.

    Hi Kevin. And goodnight.