Green-Groups Bird-Dogging Labor is a Dog Act
This is one of the most important elections in our history. Bird-Dogging the alternative, progressive Government as a political strategy is a dog act. It risks punishing us with another term of conservative rule. Pushing a single issue agenda with the aim to suffocate the message of the Australian Labor Party is dangerous, classist, selfish idiocy. This is not good for the less privileged.
Bird-Dogging
Bird-Dogging is the political activist form of heckling. The intent of Bird-Dogging is to absolutely suffocate the message of the politician or party holding the event. Bird-Dogging is covert and coordinated. The idea is to get as many people as possible, sympathetic to your cause. The aim is to hijack a politician or a candidate speaking to the media or hijack a party event.
The idea is to covertly plant as many activists as possible in attendance at an event and push to ask as many questions as possible or make as many statements as possible about the activist issue. Activists achieve success if the politician spends a lot of time answering activists’ questions. This means the Bird-Dogging activists have suffocated the candidate’s message. They have drawn all the attention to the Bird-Dogger’s message.
It has come to light that Labor is the target. Greens aligned groups, such as the Australian Youth Climate Coalition and Stop Adani will participate in Bird-Dogging. They are not targeting the Liberals or One Nation. Their aim is to attack Labor using Bird-Dogging.
There is even a detailed Bird-Dogging Labor guide. This outlines the questions, responses and behaviour for Greens-aligned activists to attack Labor. (More on the Bird-Dogging Labor 2019 guidelines later).
Bird-Dogging up Close is Pretty Horrid
I witnessed Bird-Dogging in person from the Greens last year, before I knew what Bird-Dogging was. This was at a Labor held Banking Inquiry Information session event, held by Shadow Assistant Treasurer, Andrew Leigh.
The behaviour of the Greens in attendance that night was verbally aggressive, demanding the floor and interrupting questions and answers. For example, they would scream out that the Labor Party has destroyed Industrial Relations. Flailing about yelling how the Greens were “The Original Unionists”. (I know right *rolls eyes).
The Greens’ demanded attention to ask questions. When answering, they wasted time making very long-winded statements about the Adani mine, other Greens driven issues, or taking credit for things Labor had done over the last 100 years. It was seriously bizarre.
Many people that night did not get to ask a question on a serious issue, because of the Greens Bird-Dogging strategy. Many in attendance were most likely very concerned about being ripped off by Banks – or had been ripped off by banks. Andrew Leigh did stay after the event and spoke to people one to one, but the benefit of the entire room hearing the question and the answer was lost. Some, may not have had the self-efficacy to go up to a politician and ask a question or may have thought they were a bother. That is not good for our democracy.
The night ended up with a couple of men having to intervene when one of the Greens men was arguing inches away from a woman union delegate’s face screaming about how terrible Labor is. It was very upsetting and I started shaking, even watching it.
Bird-Dogging Labor 2019
Last week, I came across the Bird-Dogging Labor 2019 Guidelines posted on Twitter. The person who posted the guide appears to be involved in various activist groups. However, they obviously think that this particular tactic targeting Labor is dangerous and stupid, considering we have had five years of conservative rule and the country is going down the toilet.
Activists received the Bird-Dogging Labor 2019 guidelines at a Stop Adani meeting in Brisbane. The Australian Youth Climate Coalition developed the guide. These guidelines detail questions and responses and behaviour towards Labor Politicians and candidates, working hard to try to win seats off the LNP in Queensland.
We can predict what some of Labor’s responses will be to bird-dogging and want to be prepared with factual & sassy answers ready to go! The way this is written is to have a few responses to predictable answers so we can keep MPs or candidates on point & answering our questions when we go bird-dogging! (Bird-Dogging Labor Guidelines AYCC).
A Slap in the Face by a Privileged Hand
The AYCC and Stop Adani intend to do everything they can to suffocate Labor’s key messages for this crucial election campaign. The ONLY other result if Labor does not win, is another term of the Liberal-National Coalition Government. These groups campaign for the Greens.
This campaign strategy is a slap in the face to the workers and the disadvantaged who deserve to have the courtesy of hearing about crucial progressive policy which will affect them. Not just affect them, but there are some policies Labor will be discussing, that will literally change people’s lives. This is a slap in the face to the working class, by a very privileged hand.
However, the AYCC states in their guidelines, that Labor (as detailed by Tony Burke) has a valid point in why Labor can’t stop Adani.
“Why is this our ask?
Labor actually has a valid point when they say they can’t commit to stopping Adani for legal reasons. This is because if Labor gets into government and then stops Adani by revoking their approval to build the mine (having committed to stopping it prior to the election), Adani could
then sue the Labor Govt claiming that a genuine review did not happen and therefore it was wrongfully revoked. Therefore, while we are still pushing them to Stop Adani, the specific ask (for bird dogging, MP meetings and conversations) is for them to commit to reviewing Adani’s approval and act.” (Bird Dogging Labor Guidelines – AYCC)
Bird Dogging Guidelines
The AYCC state in their document that:
“This document is created in reference to the principal objects of the Australian Youth Climate Coalition as stated in the constitution (p.3).”
The Bird-Dogging Labor 2019 – Messages and Response Guide details:
“We can predict what some of Labor’s responses will be to bird-dogging and want to be prepared with factual & sassy answers ready to go! The way this is written is to have a few responses to predictable answers so we can keep MPs or candidates on point & answering our questions when we go bird-dogging!”
The guidelines detail answers as well as suggested behaviour. Some examples are below:
Sassy
“Our position is clear” + “we’re committed to Adani not receiving any public money”
(sassy) Which position is that?
So in the above example, not only do the guidelines state what to say, but the behaviour to deliver it. Which is to be Sassy – which is defined as “Rude with no Respect”. This shows that they are not interested in a serious answer, but their own ‘show’.
Leave Brittany The Liberals Alone!
“Why aren’t you going after the Government?”
If you want to be the next Government, you need to be serious about climate action which means stopping Adani. When will you commit to a review of Adani’s approval?
In the example above, Stop Adani, Greens members (and possibly candidates or politicians) and the AYCC who will all be active “Bird-Doggers” already agree that Labor is being truthful that there are legal implications of why they cannot stop Adani. However, their excuse for not attacking the Liberal Party, or One Nation, is that the Labor Party wants to be the next Government. Well, heads up purists wreckers! The Liberal Party and One Nation also want to be the next Government too!
According to this failed logic of these dangerous ideological purists, it is best to attack and suffocate the message of the Progressive Labor Party, than to hold the Liberal, National and One Nation Parties to account. It is also best to do their very best to derail the Labor Party’s campaign, so Labor does not get heard and do not win the election when Labor is the Party most likely to work with and not against Greens Groups.
Vomit on them
“We’re not in the business of ripping up contracts”
Vomit on them***
In the example above, the AYCC is instructing Bird-Doggers to what? Vomit on the Labor politician or candidate? Disgraceful behaviour aside, once again, the contradiction is that the AYCC has already accepted and detailed in the guidelines. They agree that Labor has a valid point regarding legal implications with regards to Stopping Adani. Bird-Doggers agree that Labor is reasonable here. However, vomiting on the candidate is the solution?
Is Richard DiNatale going to accept campaign assistance from Stop Adani and the AYCC, when this type of abhorrent behaviour is a suggested behaviour towards candidates or politicians in the Labor Party? Maybe he could file it in his “To Do List” right under, “Do something about sexism and misogyny in the Greens”
Yell This at Bill Shorten!
When Bill Shorten tries to run away- yell this at him
(if they require shaming for inaction) Is your personal political ambition is more important than a safe climate future for young Australians?
When Bill Shorten tries to run away- yell this at him
(if they get angry/unreasonable with you) All I’m asking for is for you to review Adani’s environmental approval.
I find this suggestion quite bizarre. Its almost as if these Greens groups only read the Greens Newsletter. It is as if they swallow whole every low-base Bandt Rant about how awful Bill Shorten is. They appear to have absolutely no idea about the politician that they are planning to attack.
I think readers will agree with me that Shorten does not run away from questions. He has hosted 75 town halls across Australia. Bill Shorten fields many questions from the general public. He always asks the media if they have any other questions. The only time we see Bill Shorten running is long distance running, because well….. it’s basically his sport!
They also appear very confused about who is who. Bill Shorten does not display anger or unreasonable behaviour. That is Richard DiNatale when confronted about the sexist behaviour towards women by men in the Greens and asked what will he do about it. Sorry, my bad. That’s not right, the behaviour from Richard is more passive and indifferent on that issue. But the Liberals and Nationals and PHON, the parties who are exempt from Bird-Dogging…well they have lots of angry and unreasonable people.
An Assault on the Working Class
This election is one of the most important elections in our history. There are absolutely critical Industrial Relations reforms that need a Labor Government so they become an actual reality. Only a Labor Government can change the rules and give workers back, fairness, safety, protection and dignity.
These Greens groups will respond and say how innocent, cute and sassy, Bird-Dogging is and it isn’t aggressive at all. However, I have witnessed Bird-Dogging first hand. The rest of the country has witnessed Greens groups crashing Labor events en-masse. They are far from protesting respectfully.
Attacking the Proles while the Bourgeoisie are literally pushing people to suicide through Robo-Debt and literally pushing workers to their deaths with the ABCC, is a privileged, classist attack on the working class.
As Daniel Andrews (SMH 2012) said:
According to the Greens, everyone must compromise except them. They would rather protect their ideals than search for the common ground that might just protect the most vulnerable. Even with the purest of motives, a refusal to bend while launching endless criticism at those who are prepared to work for real outcomes is arrogant and self-indulgent.
An Insidious, Cancerous Parasite in Our Social Fabric
With all the debate this week about who is more dangerous, PHON or the Greens, the question should be for whom? I think we can all agree that a party that pushes a racist and divisive agenda such as One Nation is an insidious, cancerous parasite in our social fabric.
However, if the purism of the Greens and their associated activist groups, are successful in their aims to suffocate the message of Labor on every issue and the only issue people hear about is about a mine that has not been able to start for six years and signed off by the LNP Newman Government; then there is a very good chance the consequence will be that Labor will not win Government. Another consequence could be an increased presence of Liberals, Nationals, PHON and other right-wing Independents in the chamber.
I think we can all agree that the behaviour of Greens purists, which may result in the return of the worst Government and worst Prime Minister in our history, plus a few extra nutters like PHON winning seats, through “Greens-aligned Groups’ successful activism against Labor” is also an insidious, cancerous parasite in our social fabric.
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paul walter
Return to home pageThere’s one factoid about the Greens. They’re not green. They’re there because there is money, jobs, and power in politics at the Fed level. And most of them wouldn’t get the sort of pay they can achieve by selling out Australia and the environment like they have.
They’ve supported the LNP in the most recent govt and have cheered on the big Australia, the growth machine which has been our immigration program.
Tree hugging, dog whistling and attacking others does not make one an environmentalist. Thank you, Trish
Greens Volunteer Says He Knows It’s Like Bad To Say This But Immigrants Only Vote Conservatively Because They Aren’t That Well Educated
In all the newspaper ‘tests’ that tell you where your political sympathies are (in case you are unsure), I come out as a typical Green voter. Yet I would not, and will not, vote Green.
I don’t know the calibre of the Green movements overseas, but my view of the Australian version is that they are just natural Libersl voters who live in bijou inner-city developments who want to retain nearby parks where they take their dogs to shit.
They gave us Tony Abbott, and devote most of their energies to winning Labor seats.
Sorry Trish, but you really need to take a rest or a holiday or something as this article of yours is really a huge exaggeration of the reality on the ground. Groups like the Stop Adani movement are not fronts for the Greens, even if many of their supporters will vote for the Greens, but they have genuine concerns about coal mining and humanity descending into climate Armageddon. These groups devote the vast bulk of their efforts to defeating candidates of the conservative parties and especially the hard right members of those parties.
The Greens are the most progressive political party apart from a few micro parties and are a LEGITIMATE political competitor to the other parties and independents and have a right to present their case as best they can with the very limited financial resources at their disposal.
For the many doubters here how about actually reading the Greens policies before blurting out knee jerk responses based on ignorance.
https://greens.org.au/policies
The Australian people want political choices especially when in our history the two main party blocs have let them down so often.
It is also good to see Labor adopting so many policies that the Greens incorporated into their policy platform years ago.
As a member of the Greens I really want Bill Shorten and the Labor Party to win in a landslide victory in the coming federal election as the conservative parties have been a total disaster and are our shared ideological enemies, not just opponents.
Most of all I want the Greens to gain seats in parliament and in proportion to their share of total votes which is why I support a proportional representation voting system like Tasmania’s and the ACT’s Hare-Clarke system.
Same here Wat Tyler, according to all the online surveys i am as green as Kermit but am totally gobsmacked by Dick Digit and his trainwreck band of trolls, garden gnomes, intellectual pygmies and selfish navel gazers. I used to think that no one can collectively maintain hateful bile like scorned young Liberals or aggrieved NSW right wing Labor (first hand experience of both) until i saw the Gruens in action. These vile cretins would deliberately destroy the planet to point score even against their own. Untrustworthy vermin.
Trish
Young people, and older for that matter, tackle Labor on the basis that the LNP is not considered to be a worthwhile entity. The LNP being considered to be an arm of mining interests. Some Labor spokespeople are saying they would create a sovereign risk should they try to tackle Adani head on, and so are playing the long game. Others Labor members appear to be supportive of Adani . I’m taking sovereign risk to mean that a Free Trade Agreement with India forged by the LNP inhibits corporations such as Adani being tackled head on. Profit transcends everything else.
Should Adani go ahead it would open up the Carmichael Basin to other corporations waitng in the wings. The science suggests that should Adani go ahead, then any policy relating to climate change is worthless. While accounting might suggest that any coal exported has nothing to do with Australian emissions, that accounting does not take into account that the greenhouse gases created elsewhere come back and bite us, through changes in climate.
The impact of fossil fuels creating a hostile climate has been known for many many decades. Science created for fossil fuel corporations in the 1970s indicated damage would occur. Management chose to ignore the science and funded various denier groups to undermine the science. There is no conjecture here, the science of decades ago has been obtained through investigative journalism and legal means.
Dust from coal kills as does the emissions created from burning it. Coal is a death sentence for millions of people through health issues created. A recent report suggested 800,000 in the EU, and millions in Asian countries each year.
Something Labor has not stated when questioned about the cost of their climate policy, is the costs created through extreme events such as drought, bushfires, and flooding. While climate change cannot be blamed for natural events such as droughts etc, it does provide a circumstance for very major events to become extreme. Billions of dollars in damages can be created by one event, that has been the experience in the USA.
As a young bloke, I can remember heckling Fraser at a Town Hall Meeting during an election campaign, that was through disagreeing with policies. It is different for young people today, they believe they are fighting for their future, lives even. They believe they are being sold out by politicians and adults generally. The belief is that the planet will not sustain life if a business as usual approach is taken. Adani going ahead is tantamount to a business as usual approach.
Ice cores show how climate can change very abruptly in the space of a decade ( Dr Richard Alley).
Same here, all quizzes & surveys tell me I’m greener than Green. Nope.
In all the talk of party leaders/PMs being serially knifed for a decade now, Di Natale gets a free pass. Remember distinctly ABC Radio announcing entirely out of the blue, the Greens had a new leader … normal broadcasting will now resume.
I agree that those political types of a progressive nature need to stop pissing around taking swipes at each other and focus on the real enemy. I would however point out that in part it’s Labor’s own fault! In order to placate the many neoconservatives in their own ranks about 20 yrs ago they stopped trying to work with green groups and started attacking them. I guess so all those all those focus group people could distinguish the Labor BRAND! So maybe the Labor Party could get their shit together and start working with “Green” type groups again?!
If there was ANY political group worth infiltrating and turning into a sock-puppet political agenda machine to drive a wedge into the policies of the LNP’s most threatening opponents it would HAVE to be The Greens. Strange how they suddenly become most vociferous against Labor policies when the two majors are debating social policy where Labor has the conscientious upper hand. The city-centered prestige of The Greens gives them access to the honest intent but still innocently politically naive youth vote. Personally, I never have trusted any man who would wear a turtle-neck skivvi as a dress-shirt!
AND..I still think they ought to have placed SHY as leader…SHE at least exhudes honest intent…perhaps that is why…
No surprises here, Trish. These are the same meatballs who torpedoed Labor’s ETS back in 2008. They recognize and believe that the only way for their party to be relevant is to to somehow steal Labor voters or wreck Labor’s message. I’ve never had any sympathy with them before and none whatsoever after the black polo shirted ‘Dr’ Natale took over. As for Sarah Hanson Young, just wave a handkerchief under her nose and she’ll start bawling with huge big tears rolling down her pink cheeks, whatever the issue. I would put them last on my ballot paper except for one neuron Pauline Hanson. Is any greenie person reading this ? Go stick your head somewhere suitable.
At the next election we will have either a LNP government or a Labor one, from my point of view it would be a catastrophe if the LNP get across the line, Labor with a good majority, and quite a large cross bench would be great in my opinion. We do not need a LNP which is at war with itself and seeks to promote the big end of town. In relation to what the LNP offer in relation to climate is Abbott Mark2; in other words, nothing.
The so called moderates are leaving the LNP; when I was young, there were “wets” and “drys”, the “wets” holding more liberal views. The LNP current “moderates” would have been seen as “drys” ie right wing decades ago I believe.
There must be an election coming.
Trish is back with her usual white anting about the horrible Greens.
As to ‘stealing Labor’s vote and policies’…..
I was a Labour voter for 40 years, until the Shorten -led overthrow of Rudd by Gillard. I was not impressed that the Labor power brokers overturned the most popular PM in decades, although Julia seems to have assumed that mantle since ( at least in the eyes of the Labor rusted ons.)
My vote was ‘not stolen’…..
I looked for a party that had policies I believed in and put my vote there. I actually read the Green policies, compared them to where Labor was heading and made a choice.
Isn’t that what democracy is supposed to be?
I, too, hope that Labor wins with a landslide but I see the need for a third party to keep the bastards honest and I don’t want that party to be PHON or the re-born Shooters and Fishers and Farmers.
Is there a link to those guidelines?
I am with you trish and wat.
The tassie greens of the sixties and the sydney unions with mundey were admirable and, to my eyes seen through my pechy’s bay big sister, apolitical.
When they sided, with the worst opposition leader in our history, to sink action on carbon, the loonies became a practical political party. The extent of their political ambition clearly shown by the formation of the diludbransimkims as the force. Further evidence of ‘ends justify the means’ mentality these boys have developed. They have lost their principals and are politically ambitious enough to accept a coalition government as long as they have the balance in the senate, in an attempt to force a coalition with labor..
Dear Wat,
I wrote to guru(not)green complaining that I am typed as a green/labor when my friend is not a lib nat or a nat lib. The answer was their ids a difference between labor policies and green policies but there is no difference between the coalition. I have considered the loonies slimes since xmas 2009 and, though I only saw a little of rishworth her words were descriptive of this political party. A party for which I have lost respect. Although some individuals seem to have principles and deserve support. I hope labor follows amanda and targets brandt.
ps thanks for the giggle Andreas
Take off your rouge coloured contact lenses comrades as some of your derogatory portrayals of Richard Di Natale are quite frankly baseless bullshit. Have any of you met or spoken to the man or even listened to much of what he has said throughout his political career?
Richard is more progressive on all issues, not just environmental issues than anyone currently in a leadership position in the Labor Party. Don’t rely on the mainstream media for a fair portrayal, you should all realise that very well.
The Greens vote helps the Labor Party you nongs as it increases the total progressive vote. There are many seats the Labor Party would not win without the preferences from Green voters. Don’t assume these people would have just voted Labor if the Greens were kind enough to just die as most of you apparently want. The Greens by presenting their case win over voters not just from the ALP but middle of the spectrum voters, moderate Liberals and especially the younger demographic that is rightly very concerned about their future and about the current neoliberal disaster that both the hard right of the LNP and nominally progressive ALP have dumped on all of us over the last 30+ years like a massive cowpat. Many of the younger demographic may not have registered to vote without some party like the Greens offering a policy platform that is highly relevant to them and indeed to all Australians.
It would be really great if Labor again started searching for the light on the hill instead of being complicit in pissing on it nearly as much as the LNP. How has the working class been treated by the workers party during the neoliberal era comrades? Has it been working for you? Is it all really the fault of the LNP and Uncle Rupert?? Who needs to relearn their history?
However I do think we have a reasonable chance with a Bill Shorten led ALP federal government that they will at least in part relearn which direction they should be pissing and best of luck to them.
The Greens are not going to disappear and will always fight for a better path whoever is in government and our current political circumstances desperately need this.
And yes Henry, some Greenie persons are reading this.
Have always voted Labor (effectively) – these days via The Greens’ route. Seems to me that The Greens keep Labor on the progressive track. Check out the number of times a Green’s policy soon becomes ALP policy. And yes at times The Greens have over-=reached.
And what Andreas Bimba said @ 10:05 am.
Shorten’s comments to the extent that the ALP supports further coal and gas mining proposals may as well have been a declaration of war on the planet, our common habitus, and needs to be seen in a very clear light. The working class isn’t at war with capital; it’s more like an unhappy marriage that sticks together for financial reasons. Never mind, the physical material reality will be back next summer – hotter than ever.
MN..: ” Check out the number of times a Green’s policy soon becomes ALP policy”…
It’s called “leap-frogging politics”…the strategy group watches and when a policy is even just talked about in a public media interview, they analyse and re-construct it to SEEM like it is a Green initiative..They can do this because not having a snowball’s chance in hell of ever having to comit to implementing it, they can go WAY out into left-field with it and when Labor has spent many days debating it inter-alia with other considerations and delivers a well considered policy. they immediately claim THEY thought of it first and Labor’s policy doesn’t go far enough!….
Then they scream “bird-dogging”!
You’re in ‘good’ company Trish, with the IPA.
Last night on QandA, John Roskam reverted to form (after surprising everyone by saying Newstart needs to be increased) and pointed out that the Greens are worse than One Notion. Déjà vu Teena McQueen.
Which prompts the question what are Labor’s preferences going to be?
Scummo has been birddogged about this. Stands to reason to ask, would Bill place the Greens below One Notion on the how to vote? Although he has recommended ON be placed last, however, given Labor’s enmity, the Greens should be even more last, right?
Labor, the Libs and IPA united against the Greens. You know this makes sense 🤪
I don’t find any political party (or politician) perfect and I think both the Greens and Labor have been guilty of wasting time and energy attacking each other.
I see the Greens as aspirational – they are our conscience. I see Labor as the alternate government who is most likely (and most able) to move towards those aspirations.
Joseph,
Marriage equality was a Greens policy when Labor were still voting against it. As was a Federal ICAC. They were calling for more renewables and greater emissions cuts a long time ago. Everyone is slowly realising they were right. I think they were silly to vote against getting a system started which could have been improved, however. There are many other examples. Increasing Newstart for example has been a Greens policy for a long time and the Labor government will have to do it.
I have been a Labor/Green voter since Bob Hawke promised to stop the Franklin Dam, and he did.
The most inspirational Green leaders who stuck to their abiding principles through their whole term were Bob of course and Christine.
Do yourselves a favour and look up Green Politics in Tas. We invented it. Ecology, Social Justice, Participatory Democracy and Peace are the cornerstones. Tasmania has always been at the front – we had a working Labor Green government for a brief shining moment. It can be like that again, when MPs start working together for the good of the country, recognising the shared values.
Labor and the Greens can only hope to defeat the LNP by working together, not by putting each other down.
I go further Kaye, I think Labor could not win a federal election without the efforts of the Greens and I don’t mean a simple addition of Greens and Labor House of Reps seats but more importantly winning over voters to the progressive side of politics.
To the Labor critics of the Greens, do you really think you could defeat the Liberals, Nationals, LNP, One Nation, the Shooters and all the minor right wing parties based ONLY ON THE EFFORTS OF THE LABOR PARTY and its supporters?
……….
You have a point Joseph but the Greens certainly do debate their policies and consider them suitable as is for implementation by government, not just a marketing ploy. The Greens are also well aware of the bind the ALP are in regarding winning over the swinging voters in the swinging seats which by necessity slants the policy options for the ALP, with an electorate that has been bombarded by neoliberal propaganda, lies and half truths by the mainstream media for over 40 years.
The Greens and Labor need each other but they must also compete with each other for the greater good and to provide a genuine and meaningful choice for the electorate who are not fools, just misinformed in the main.
Kaye Lee..Many of such “Bleedin’ obvious” policies have to be “eased” into a reticent public consciousness BEFORE a major party can place it on an official platform…Sure..any cockamaimie outfit can promise the world…but delivering it may just be a bridge too far for some outfits with only a “draw-poker game” number of sitting members.
C’mon!..let’s get serious…are we talking a political party or a Bridge party!?
One more point, if we had a proportional representation voting system like the Hare-Clarke system the LNP would not have won the last federal election and many other state and federal elections due to the current systemic over representation given to the Nationals in parliament by the current single member seat majority with preferences electoral system.
If you want to stay in government then Hare-Clark or something similar to the NZ or German electoral system needs careful consideration to be put to a referendum at the appropriate point in time.
I am disappointed in you, Trish. I support Stop Adani and do not believe they are some front for the Greens. Look at the position of parties on Adani: The LNP support it, the Greens oppose it and the ALP sit on the fence. Stop Adani and others like them realise it’s no use trying to influence the regime and quite properly try to force the ALP to come off the fence. Your “Greens under the beds” is crap.
As an aged, infirm, non-partisan watcher of politics, I can only say that commentary such as yours, Trish, is one of the abiding reasons why I am perpetually disappointed by the rank and file supporters of the ALP.
Blinkered, poorly informed tribalism.
I am not a Greens supporter as many have claimed me to be on other websites, though many of their policies run close to my conception of how the world could and should be run.
It should certianly not be administered by people who display the kind of corrupt and devious inclination which you demonstrate in this essay.
You do the ALP no benefit in this diatribe.
” As an aged, infirm,. . . ” …..What’s with all this “too much information” about personal medical / psychological / whatever details on a political blog?…You see it on Twitter too..a pleading for recognition of one’s personal medical shortcomings….Ok…some of us are carrying injuries…I get it..but is it necessary to list such as a kind of “authority to make judgement” on another’s post?….is it?…Perhaps I could start my more contentious posts with ..: “Look, as a person who has suffered through the pain of (list of options..salacious or otherwise)..I just want to say my opinion about space travel…
I can sympathise with the aged, Nigel, but hey!..fair go..
Sigh…. Knowing someone’s circumstances can give context to their comments.
Perhaps, Joseph, you have some difficulty in reading deeper into the written word; just as you have considerable difficulty in sorting out the difference between your established dogma and the activities of the real world of humanity.
Understanding the fundamentals behind someone’s political opinions appears to be somewhat beyond your capabilities.
Tasmania also invented permaculture. Just saying.
Tasmanians also invented the black box flight recorders and the humidicrib for premature babies….but I digress.
Tasmanians have been inspirational in environmental battles.
The Bird Doggin’ Greens do need to remember who the enemy is, for sure – but they’re not the worst band in the world. These guys are:
Terry Wrist and the Hand Shandies: https://www.geezerspot.com/single-post/2018/12/17/Is-this-the-Worst-Band-in-the-World
Kaye…but they elect the likes of Erica Betts to the Senate and a mob supporting the pokies and other gambling industrial parasites to their State legislatures!
“Cats, like people, are curious mixtures; they don’t like books without any pictures.” (Alice in Wonderland.)
If one has “fundamentals” relevent to the post one is making an opinion about, fair enough..but when one lists imfirmaries irrelevent to the discussion, how does it add to the discussion…?
The AIMN : ” The AIMN is a platform for public interest journalists and bloggers to write and engage in an independent media environment.”
THAT is on the header “About the AIMN” above..A noble ambition..but I can see there are some would like to claim the site as a platform for THEIR OWN private parlour where, like a Gertrude Stein set piece, we “outsiders” come to pay homage to the cogniscenti resident in some sort of self-elected comfort-zone of opinion and judgement…
With Michael’s apology listed there on the side panel, I can detect some complaints have perhaps been sent “behind the scenes” of these pages of fair comment…That there is a coterie of “insiders” so confident in their secure positions, we saw with the slandering of the anti-vaxers a while back..also against a refugee who put up a short article some time ago….Trish Corry, Roger Hawcroft, myself and several others have been singled out when we have crossed some sort of “line of infringement” with these blogging dilettantes..You have noticed, I presume, the now lack of articles from the once very enthusiastic Mr. Theodoridis…
At the risk of overstepping my boundaries..yet again!…I would suggest some reflection be done on just where and how much self-opinionated expertise ought to be exercised.
The current crop of Greens are their own worse enemies.
DrakeN, every single pokie in Tasmania controlled by a greedy bunch of bastards that don’t even live here –
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/no-risk-the-family-who-owns-tasmanias-gambling-industry-20180202-h0slct.html
So it’s no wonder that the LNP gubmint here is at their beck and call.
Joseph, how about a little self control from you, do you realise that your continual going on and on about class can be really annoying.
I live in NSW and I refuse to accept responsibility for Mark Latham, Fred Nile, David Leyonjhelm, Brian Burston, Jim Molan or any of the many miscreants that make it into our halls of power.
We are, indeed, a curious mixture.
The preference flows from Greens to Labor is something like 80%, Labor does need them.
I believe in the end should Labor win the next election the Greens need to be very careful about what they want to reject in relation to climate policy. Labor is restarting a process that should have begun decades ago, it must not be derailed.
The LNP might squeak about Labor climate policy, but it must be remembered they offer nothing.
The Greens have a more robust policy than Labor on climate, but we do not want a repeat of what has happened in the past.
Now for a cheery thought, but realistic one, Arctic sea ice is very thin and has very little multi year ice to provide strength. The Arctic controls weather elsewhere, along with Oceans. Oceans have been shown to be warming more than expected.
Should weather conditions happen over a Northern Hemisphere summer, similar to those of 2012, then we are potentially facing an ice free Arctic Ocean. I wouldn’t bet on that being the case in the next few summers, but it is a very real possibility in the next 10+ years.
https://images.theconversation.com/files/266736/original/file-20190401-177178-ctdvdy.jpg
https://theconversation.com/labors-climate-policy-a-decent-menu-but-missing-the-main-course-114606
The Greens have what Labor is omitting:
Seems to me Labor and the Greens need each other.
We do not have time to pander to egocentric politics. https://skepticalscience.com/2019-SkS-Weekly-Digest_13.html
https://skepticalscience.com//pics/D21VlSrWsAAXRIQ.png
In NSW Gladys has just abolished the Office of Environment and Heritage,
.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/planning-king-as-nsw-enviro-dept-ditched
Yep, gives the LNP in NSW a whole new level of potential corruption.
Well Keith I wouldn’t be too sure about what the greens might do. Twice in the last 10 years they voted with the lnp against a labour climate policy because, in their view it didn’t go far enough. Presumably they pefer nothing, which is exactly what we’ve got. I don’t disagree with where the greens want to head, but they will never form government and so they might think about revising their strategy, if they want have meaningful influence in positive change. So darn frustrating.
The Greens, when they were dealing with the Rudd/Gillard government, were like a man who staggered out of the desert and refused a drink of water because it didn’t have ice in it.
And their bloodymindedness gave us the Abbott government, with a PM and henchmen who, rather than offer a drink, would more likely kick the bucket over.
I will never vote Green, although I’d like to.
1: Stupidity is irreligious and apolitical.
2: green is not a hat one size fits all.
3: before the greens were born there was green labor and the suits from Sussex st destroyed their own baby over a couple of seats at the Hobart Casino knees up.
4: The Greens Political Party grew from grassroots groups under the over arching philosophy of Camp Concern.
5: voting Liberal is a sign of Mental illness.
6.voting Liberal is a sign of Mental illness.
7.voting Liberal is a sign of Mental illness.
8.voting Liberal is a sign of Mental illness.
9.voting Liberal is a sign of Mental illness.
10.voting Liberal is a sign of Mental illness.
Well delivered Trish… a good read full of facts.
Ms Kaye Lee should perhaps keep her comment to the article in a single address and not go off subject by attacking other peoples comments to this well researched article.
Perhaps you can point out where I attacked other people’s comments Catir?
The dilubransimkims can say or do whatever the boys want because they have a fixed group of loonies.
The cash, for the boys, comes from these local self funding candidates, mostly, and through extremely dedicated volunteers putting their own money and effort into a $150 seats to garnish the 10% for the party to spent on the senate.
They are the modern dlp to labor in that the perception of the greens, perpetuated by using the pejorative that is consistent with the way the loonies act, on any occasions that has a whiff of a chance to lure votes from labor.
I abhor the decision to destroy they womg/trumball deal and subsequenylt yje rabbott’s era Australia’s chance on a petulant belief of their ownership of climate change is the way to the furure or f#ck you labor and the did.
I wonder if anyone thinks the green boys words on shorten’s labor 2019 climate policy suggests they will repeat the xmas 2009 action and re-f#ck labor.?
Food for thought. Thanks Trish. I’d voted greens for as long as I can remember but this election is too important for principles. Time to start communicating a few home truths to the greens it seems.
Re:
The mind boggles. One wonders what will now become the basis for this unprincipled decision-making?
Who said that? The Coalition is actually supremely UN-principled. It has never disputed any, even back in the days when we are led to believe they were better people than they are today – which is damning with faint praise – that is, the Fraser era, they displayed, to a man, the complete lack of ethics, morals and principles that we accuse them of today. I remember the scumbags that the old Country Party comprised: Anthony, Sinclair, McKewan. And the Libs had Howard, Snedden ( the man who came before he went) and various unconvicted criminals in the Senate. It’s in their DNA. If they find someone about whom nobody can say a good word, they pre-select them.
I can’t find any either, Kaye.
How many times can one writer use the words bird dogging in a single article? Assuming that we the readers accept this awful use of the language in the first place.
It is Labor who has been suffocating the Greens for decades. There is a misconception amongst powerful people and their supporters that they can be “bullied” by minorities. This is a lie. Making labor into a “victim” is disingenuous Trish Corry.
KIndly old Labor is being hurt by nasty teeny tiny Greens oooh didums!
Labor has had 100 years to get its head around responsibility for the environment and to educate Union members on how to change careers from Coal to renewables. Now major “coal” unions are stopping labor from endorsing meaningful change. Particularly regarding Adani. That the government might have to pay Adani is even more indicative of labor’s ineptitude on our environment.
Theoretically both Labor and the greens are Left why not use that to their mutual advantage as the Libs and Nats do? I would support that coalition. But at every opportunity Labor goes out of its way to throw shade on the Greens and have said repeatedly they will not preference the Greens.
Climate action is supported by the Greens but not controlled by them as anyone who is actually involved in any of the protests could tell you Trish. Clearly you don’t have a clue.
I went to the Adani protests locally and it was not the Greens who organised it or who were behind it. Our local Mayor came along to support and he is not a Green.
I don’t think the Greens are pure but they sure as hell are not as corrupt and deceitful as the two major parties. I hope Labor gets in on the lesser evil principle but this kind of journalism is only divisive and detrimental to the long overdue changes we need as a country.
If you repeat a lie often enough doesn’t make it true.
‘The Greens lost us the 2013 federal election!’
Note the above is the lie in question.
What utter bul…. nonsense. Labor lost the 2013 election to that degenerate Catholic because of themselves and of course a massive campaign of lies from Uncle Rupert and the rest of the kleptocracy and a cunning and contemptible campaign by our feudal overlord coalition.
The electorate can also excel in stupidity and self inflicted pain at times.
We know the democratic game is heavily stacked against Labor, the Greens and the micro parties but nevertheless Labor could easily have won the last two federal elections if they didn’t make some key mistakes. I can think of a few in no particular order, but others could write a few pages no doubt.
(a) The grossly unfair and electorally damaging dumping of Julia Gillard.
(b) Rudd abandoning his original strong mandate to tackle climate change and failing to build support in the electorate, something he was actually really good at (coal unions anyone?)
https://amp.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-day-the-rudd-government-lost-its-way-on-climate-change-20140509-zr7fm.html.
(c) Rudd’s stupid 2020? talkfest summit of community experts, and too much of Rudd being Rudd.
(d) Letting the car industry slowly die and be relentlessly demonised by the neoliberal attack dogs for daring to receive budgetary assistance. Rudd cut the non FTA tariff from an inadequate 10% to a meaningless 5%. This set the groundwork for Australia’s most incompetent Prime Minister ever – Tony Abbott and his fat lover boy Joe Hockey who thought he was a treasurer, to deliver the final and fatal thrust of the knife into an industry that could by now have been manufacturing New Energy Vehicles locally. All in accordance with Gina and friends sponsored IPA list of things to do and coal lifts you out of poverty.
(e) Pandering to the bigots over refugees arriving by boat.
(f) Administering the home insulation scheme with the administrative competence of a musician. Sorry Peter, not all your fault.
(g) Savagely cutting benefits to those evil single mothers.
(h) Stupidly scoring an own goal on fiscal policy by trying to turn back too rapidly to a surplus after running a highly successful and extremely important stimulatory deficit just after the GFC. This rapid policy switch back to surplus made the economy tank and the surplus then became a huge deficit due to a collapse in tax revenue and an increase in social support costs. Better learn macroeconomics Wayne (and Chris).
(i) Labor being Labor, you know obediently delivering just enough neoliberalism to keep the greasy fat parasites in the kleptocracy off their backs and to hell with the unemployed and underemployed and dispossessed, their not swinging voters anyway.
(j) Martin Ferguson, say no more but I will anyway, resources minister and minister for giving away our natural resources to foreign petrochemical giants for free. Love those profits Chevron and those tax payments. What none of either? So where did all those billions go? Martins post career salary wasn’t that big was it? A great time to be a corporation.
(k) Gee the mining tax went well.
…. and just to repeat the message ‘the Greens lost us the 2013 federal election’.
Let us see what finally happens with A) dole increases
B) Adani and old-growth logging,C) housing, education and refunding of public broadcasting, should the ALP win government.
Just for a start.
I have always one who believes that the neolib infested ALP of this decade needs to get back to Labor values and it necessitates picking up on the best of Greens thinking and outlook.