Ok, I’m going to stick by my principles here, because if you don’t stick by your principles, what are you? In the end, you’re just another Malcolm Turnbull…
All right, I know that some of you are going to point out that Malcolm’s principles have always been pretty fluid, but that’s part of my point.
George Pell is innocent until proven guilty…
We need to remember that.
Yes, I know that some of you will be ready to condemn him simply because you’d like it to be true because you hate the man, but like everyone, he’s entitled to be considered innocent until the evidence has been considered by a court of law and a jury of his peers has considered it and found him guilty. And if there isn’t enough evidence then he won’t even have to face trial.
And yes, I know that some of you will think that it’s a big conspiracy if he doesn’t go to trial, but Pell should be treated like anybody else, with the same right to a fair trial.
After all, the man himself said that the allegations were “wrong and untrue”… Which sort of confuses me a bit, because I’m trying to consider a way in which the allegations could be “right and untrue” or “wrong but true”.
Now, having said all that, I can’t help but wonder about his complaint that the ABC was conducting a “smear campaign” against him. They’ve reported the charges. Maybe it could be argued that they shouldn’t have been given the information that Pell was under investigation by the police – assuming that it was the police, which the ABC deny – but what should a media organisation do when given such information about a public figure? After confirming its accuracy, surely they’d think that the public has a right to know. If the ABC were to go down the other path, and not report it, surely they could be accused of taking part in a cover-up. I mean, how would our new senator, Derryn Hinch react if he were to hear of possible charges that hadn’t been made public? Given his propensity to get into trouble for contempt of court, can you imagine what Hinch might say under parliamentary privilege.
Of course, the suggestion that if there were any substance to the allegations, then they would have been aired at the Royal Commission is wrong, for the simple reason that the focus of the Commission was looking at the role of institutions in the abuse of children. There is no suggestion that this was anything other than the actions of one individual. But again, I emphasise. Pell is entitled to due process.
So, to me, it’s all quite clear.
Unfortunately it doesn’t seem so clear to some of George’s mates. While George is being the subject of a witch-hunt and we should all have a good lie down, it seems that it’s quite clear that the ABC and the police are guilty of wrong-doing. Take Greg Craven, Vice-Chancellor at the Australian Catholic University. He tells us:
“It’s a big story about the chronic abuse of state power from the Victoria Police and the willing abetting of the abuse of that power, very sadly by our national broadcaster the ABC!”
Yep, it seems that Victoria Police can be found guilty before even an investigation, let alone a trial, while the ABC is an accomplice aiding and abetting that abuse of state power. It’s not clear whether Mr Craven thinks it was the leak or the investigation that was the “abuse of power”. After all, a leak could have come from one officer, so it’s hard to hold the entire Victorian Police Force responsible. In fact, the leak may have even come from one of the victims… or rather, alleged victims. It seems therefore strange to call it “a chronic abuse of state power”. But then maybe Mr Craven is upset at the way the idea of investigating Pell, who after all, is a priest and if you can’t trust a priest, then…
And apparently, Andrew Bolt too, believes that only George Pell should have the presumption of innocence, because it was clearly leaked :
“This strikes me as a grotesque abuse of power by the Victoria Police particularly, exploiting the bloated, biased and over-mighty ABC. This is state power used to crush Catholics.
“The ABC claims police were not the source of the story, but it beggars belief that the information could have got out without police releasing it to an intermediary.”
I don’t remember such concern from Mr Bolt when there were reports about the investigations into Julia Gillard’s actions as a young lawyer sometime during the previous century. I don’t remember any suggestions that these were a smear or an abuse of power, long before they were the subject of questions at a Royal Commission
So, you need to ask yourself the question that neither Craven or Bolt seemed to have asked themselves: Do I believe in due process all the time, or only when I like the person being accused?
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Oh the sheer hypocrisy of Bolt who received a secret report from Downer’s office. A crime under the secrets act that has a penalty of up to 20 years jail
Pell is clearly a ‘martyr’. He should rejoice. A large step along the way to ‘beatification’ and subsequent ‘canonization’. While we have Saint Christopher, the patron Saint of ‘travellers’, we could have a new St George, not so much the slayer of dragons, but the ‘creator of dragons’ in the minds of so many abused children.
But who knows?
As I understand it, there’s a Supreme Being up there who ‘knows’ but refuses to speak apparently.
I hear he recently visited Poland, how did he travel there and back? by road, rail air??
Given the current allegations, Pell wants a probe. Indeed, Pell needs a probe. Do one to others as they they have done to you. Amen.
Pell never does himself favours. The response to msm coverage is par for the course and only confirms the sense of many that he is not actually dinkum about the truth, as a person representing that religion should be.
Yet even Pell’s mistakes are not in the class of the conscious dishonesty of of an Australian universty Vice Chancellor, Greg Craven, whose remarks make not only a travesty of Catholicism, but constitute a medievalist assault on the foundational principles of academia as exemplified through the Syllogism and basic logic..
His contempt is prior to investigation grandstanding and he is as a big a disgrace to his calling as Pell is his.
Pell was investigated back in 2002 in the Southwell inquiry. During that inquiry, the Herald Sun published details about the accuser, whose anonymity had been preserved in previous media coverage, doing the full character assassination thing. Wonder who leaked to them?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwell_inquiry
In February 2016, it was reported that Pell had been under investigation for the past year by Victoria Police over multiple child molestation allegations. It was reported that Detectives in Victoria wanted to fly to the Vatican to interview Pell regarding the allegations, which were of the sexual abuse of “up to 10 minors between 1978 and 2001”, and were waiting for “senior figures to ‘give them the go-ahead”.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3456596/Cardinal-George-Pell-pictured-walking-friend-Vatican.html
An outraged Pell is now insisting on an investigation into the Victorian police and the ABC as to who leaked???? All they had to do was read the paper or Wikipedia.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3454307/Cardinal-George-Pell-investigated-child-abuse-allegations.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Pell
Interestingly, when I heard the Victorian police commissioner being interviewed yesterday, he said the ABC story came from the “victims”. I didn’t hear the word ‘alleged’.
In 2002, Dr Pell told his audience of World Youth Day delegates that “abortion is a worse moral scandal than priests sexually abusing young people”.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/07/28/1027818485171.html
Legally, he is innocent till proven guilty. Morally, smoke … fire. And there appears to be a lot of smoke. The man’s record for truthfulness and probity is not good; why should anyone believe him now? I predict that unless the Pope sends him back, he will never darken Australia’s coasts again. He will however, face a higher court in time, one he cannot evade.
When meeting George for the first time (not in flesh), I remember thinking, here’s a hard man; not an iota of godliness, empathy or kindness in this man of church.
There he was all to too sick and old to come to court to face the abused; now he’s all full of oomph.
I have a dear friend called George, I’m telling him to change his name, as it also belongs to men like Pell, Brandis and Christensen….
So, the ABC are guilty of reporting and the police are guilty of… policing… where will it end?
@Tamaniensis – I have given much deep thought to your also deep thoughts, and I suspect I have the perfect probe for this Martyr for all time.
http://www.listaholic.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/pear.jpg
I would also point out, (if you’ll excuse the expression), that it was invented by the Holy Roman Catholic Church, for use among the unbeliebers.
Have nice day vicar.
Everyone is out to “Get Him”.
Seems an awful lot of people.
He will never be done for anything. And so much for the morals of the Roman Catholic Church.
My husband was sent to a Catholic boarding school when he was 11. After watching the 7:30 report we sat on the verandah with a glass of wine. He was quiet for a while and then said “I wonder how Mum is feeling right now.” As he spoke about trying to tell his mother about the physical and sexual abuse that was going on at the school, he started crying. “She didn’t believe me. She said they are religious men and they would never do that.”
And that is how they got away with it for so long. So many parents did not believe their children, some even punishing kids for daring to suggest such a thing. The damage that did was irreparable for some. So many lives lost.
1000 places You don’t want to be as a teenager
https://1000placesudontwanttobe.wordpress.com/?s=australia
4 Christian schools, 1 Ag High School & Navy Cadets – one must bear in mind that not many people would be aware of the site. I was not until just now.
I’m a fan of boot camps, but never those run for christian brainwashing. They feature a lot in this list.
From Lakoff’s Trump article
“The Moral Hierarchy
The strict father logic extends further. The basic idea is that authority is justified by morality (the strict father version), and that, in a well-ordered world, there should be (and traditionally has been) a moral hierarchy in which those who have traditionally dominated should dominate. The hierarchy is: God above Man, Man above Nature, The Disciplined (Strong) above the Undisciplined (Weak), The Rich above the Poor, Employers above Employees, Adults above Children, Western culture above other cultures, Our Country above other countries. The hierarchy extends to: Men above women, Whites above Nonwhites, Christians above nonChristians, Straights above Gays.”
Helvityni- what great insight you have just by looking at him on the television. You should be a lawyer . He did appear in person to the inquest on three seperate occassions. The last time he was allowed to appear via video link ( just like many others) due to medical reasons. He wasnt accused of any actual action but just that he should have known. Something that the royal commission has rejected. Now he is acused of something that the police have investigated and dismissed.
Wasn’t Pell photographed eating a sumptuous meal with wine at an expensive restaurant at the time he was too ill to come to Australia?
Craven by name, craven by nature.
“Now he is acused of something that the police have investigated and dismissed.”
You better let the police know that mark because I heard the commissioner say it is very much a live investigation that may well result in charges being laid. It has been handed over to the OPP which indicates the police feel there is a case.
“Victoria Police’s Taskforce SANO, which investigates complaints coming out of the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse, has been examining the allegations by complainants from Ballarat, Torquay and Melbourne for more than a year.
7.30 understands that the Pell case has been referred by Victoria Police to the Office of Public Prosecutions for advice.
Victoria Police Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton has confirmed to the program it is “very much a live investigation”.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-27/victoria-police-investigating-george-pell-over-abuse-complaints/7664674
Pell is of british descent.mark
Give me a call when the charges get layed KayLee. Until then it is unproven allegations.
As opposed to “dismissed”? When you make a statement that is demonstrably wrong mark, it would be good if you had the decency to admit it.
Pell has a lot of influence in the Coalition government. It will be interesting to see if it is enough to override the police investigation.
Dan Rowden at 12:51 pm
http://tinyurl.com/jqsnxmt
Correction it was beer, not wine.
True, but it was not a good look to be sitting at a table with steak, chips and beer immediately after saying you couldn’t fly to Australia.
The only reason it is “live” is because the DPP hasnt made a determination on the evidence . The police have finished with the investigation and handed over the paperwork. Once again -give me a call when charges are layed.
Once again, you are incapable of admitting you were WRONG in stating that the allegations had been investigated and dismissed. Why should we listen to a word you say when you refuse to admit when you are wrong? You can say whatever crap you like mark …..and then there is the truth.
Mr Ashton confirmed an investigation was ongoing.
“The matters raised last night are being investigated among other matters,” he said.
He also said the issue was currently before the Office of Public Prosecutions and did not rule out sending officers overseas to interview Cardinal Pell.
“Anything is possible at this stage,” he said.
Read more at http://www.9news.com.au/national/2016/07/28/09/56/police-reject-pell-call-for-investigation#UvDkM7qqkAysKpBX.99
What HAS been dismissed is Pell’s accusations against the police
Does mark have a dog in this fight? Surely he wouldn’t want child rapists let off scot free just because they wear black robes?
To be fair, the only allegations I have heard against Pell are more the fondling and exposure category. That is not written as a defence…purely in the sake of known information. Of course I have no idea of what the ongoing police investigation entails.
Child rapist -do you have evidnce you need to lodge paulwalter.
The police investigate charges and then present it to the DPP to see if there is merit in them . The police would have already interviewed Pell if they thought it was appropriate.
Would seen *Mark* with attitude, could possibly be one of those wo believe *Priests* and those of the *Cloth* wouldn’t, couldn’t do such things to *The Innocents* of Christs Flock. Me thinks he doth protest too much! aka probably one of them. Remember Christs parable of the Good Shepherd? Wolves beware!
One for mark. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1738079423076242&set=a.1514469992103854.1073741828.100006226035160&type=3&theater
Mark….your defence of Pell speaks volumes about you…..and none of it is nice.