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Can Shorten Win?

When Malcolm Turnbull made his pitch to the media the day he successfully challenged Tony Abbott for the Liberal Party leadership, he warned of the possibility of Bill Shorten becoming Prime Minister.

The latest Essential Poll released this week has Turnbull leading 44-22 as the preferred PM. That’s a pretty handy lead for Malcolm, sufficient for him to think his continued popularity will be enough for the Coalition to win the upcoming election.

The problem, however, is that 34% are undecided, and Malcolm’s lead has been whittled back from 54-15 before last Christmas. At that time 31% were undecided. While that tells us Shorten has picked up only 7% and Malcolm has lost 10%, it also tells us that more people are unsure about who they would prefer.

For Shorten, the trajectory is heading in the right direction and so are the two party preferred polls with the very important qualification that there is still a long way to go. So what is the likelihood Bill Shorten could pull off a surprise victory?

While only 22% of voters think he would be a better PM than Turnbull, last August, a majority thought he would be a better PM than Tony Abbott.

tonyabbott This tells us he can win if the circumstances at the time are favourable to him. He was preferred over Abbott because Abbott was a disaster and everyone knew it. Turnbull is not a disaster but after six months in the job he has dropped his colours is now being seen as having lost some of his charisma.

No one would accuse Bill Shorten of being charismatic, but Tony Abbott wasn’t either. On that score they were equal. Over the past three months though, something has changed. Increasingly, Turnbull is being seen as weak, while Shorten has improved his delivery, dropped the zingers, announced popular policies and has looked more prime ministerial in front of the camera.

It would seem, therefore, that charisma, which is nothing more than form, has been forsaken in favour of substance (policy initiatives), at least with some of the undecided voters in the latest poll. And there are still 34% yet to make up their minds. This puts Shorten in the game.

But being in the game should bring greater scrutiny.

A national leader is, and should be, subjected to a fair degree of scrutiny. Both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott were put through an exhaustive media scrutiny. Bill Shorten has been put through the wringer several times over. His period as a trade union leader has been, and still is, under media scrutiny. Not much of it, however, has come to anything.

Malcolm Turnbull has enjoyed a highly successful business career, some of it in banking. So given the intense scrutiny Bill Shorten experienced as a trade union leader, why is Turnbull’s time as CEO of Goldman Sachs not being scrutinised as well?

We know of some of the deals Shorten did, quite legally, with employers when he was boss of the AWU. So, why don’t we know more about some of the quite legal deals done at Goldman Sachs while Turnbull was Australian chairman and managing director?

baird One can rightly argue this is gutter politics, but have you noticed that a lot of former investment bankers seem to find their way into politics? Mike Baird, premier of NSW and John Key, PM of New Zealand, in addition to Malcolm Turnbull, come quickly to mind.

There is no suggestion here that there is anything sinister, unlawful or illegal going on, but when one also notices that many former investment bankers hold important government positions in the US and Europe as well, is it not reasonable to ask if Turnbull’s entry into politics is more than simple ambition?

Or is it just a reflection of the high regard governments have for bankers and the experience they bring with them. Perhaps.

Much information about Australian companies and individuals is going to surface shortly as we learn more about the various tax avoidance schemes exposed in the Panama Papers.

It will, no doubt, fill newspapers, blogs and current affairs programs for some time. When it’s finished, we will all know more about what goes on in this murky world.

But in the meantime, Bill Shorten has been the victim of some pretty foul character assassination plots over the past two years. It has been so intense in some cases, people have paid more attention to it than they have government. A nice distraction, so to speak.

Government is about governing for the common good. It’s about policies. It’s about management. It’s about responsibility.

6967810-3x2-940x627 At the moment, Labor, via Shorten, have been putting out realistic, reasonable policy initiatives while the Coalition, via Turnbull, have dithered, flip-flopped and given the appearance of being so internally at odds with each other, they can’t get anything on the scoreboard.

One would have thought that this is what a concerned electorate would be looking for, hence we should not be surprised that Shorten has recorded an improvement in his polling and that Turnbull’s polling is in decline.

If it continues this way, Bill Shorten can win.

115 comments

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  1. Diane

    I wonder who is putting the funds up for the survey question “Who is your preferred Prime Minister?” as surely if recent experience has taught us nothing else, it should have taught us that – whichever party you vote for – who leads that party is something you as a voter have no say in, and it’s certainly not set in stone and could change – literally – overnight!

    The true poll question should be “Who do you think is more competent and trustworthy? The team behind Shorten (Plibersek, Albanese etc) or the team behind Turnbull (Dutton, Morrison, Pyne etc)?”

  2. blair

    Shorten Can Win!……there I fixed it for you

  3. Jexpat

    “…why is Turnbull’s time as CEO of Goldman Sachs not being scrutinised as well?”

    Tick Tock.

  4. townsvilleblog

    Of course Shorten can win, with the LNP failing to even address changes to corporate taxation laws from the scandal last December when the public discovered that nearly 40% or 579 corporate companies paid ‘no’ tax since the LNP won government in 2013 (or longer) and hundreds more paid 5% or less we were very angry but nothing has changed? Lowly paid workers such as retail are suffering, their families struggling to make ends meet, pensioners and low income people having to pay for blood tests, X-Rays and Pap smear tests is completely wrong, and hopefully an incoming Labor government would reverse that LNP decision. Just today I read that after all this time the LNP have realized that solar panels and storage could lower emissions (well who would have thought) we need to return to a progressive government rather than hold on to a conservative government, the planet may rely upon our decision. Hurting the poor to make the rich even richer will bring this government down, because their ‘unfair’ policies just hurt too many people, in the name of ‘fairness’ we need to change the government on 2nd of July.

  5. bobrafto

    lest you folks forget, I predicted Shorten as PM and Abbott as opp. leader.

    Simple logic really. Who is the Lnp going to vote for leader when they lose the election? Who has form as the best opp. leader?

  6. Bernard

    “Both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott were put through an exhaustive media scrutiny”?
    Boy what I would have done to have see Abbott being scrutinised, one that escaped me somehow ?

  7. PopsieJ

    Diane.
    Dont forget in the team behind Turnbull you have the village idiot Tony a Butt, the captain. Just waiting to push them all out of the way so he can be in front again.

  8. Terry2

    The budget is going to be the decider when it comes down on 2 May with the probability of a DD election on 2 July.

    Already we are seeing Morrison start talking about removing tax concessions in Superannuation and they seem also to be taking on Labor’s tobacco tax increase but they are saying it has to be ‘Revenue Neutral’ which appears to mean that they want to hand back any revenue increases in tax reductions to corporations : that won’t go down well with the electorate.

    They are already being criticised by Moodies and the IMF for not focusing on debt reduction.

    If we lose our triple star rating then it’s Labor’s to lose.

  9. jimhaz

    [Both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott were put through an exhaustive media scrutiny]

    Yes, but as we all know, in the case of Gillard it was Murdoch related democratic corruption.

    [There is no suggestion here that there is anything sinister..going on]

    I for one make no bones about there being “something sinister going on”. It is the clearly the “lets fill up the policy areas with Yesmen people” pathway that occurred in the USA from Greenspans time, where a plethora of bankers obtained leading positions that affect policy.

    None of these people should have been allowed to get within a virgins pants of affecting policy directly. Clinton and Obama ARE both corrupt in my opinion, and you can take it for granted that the Bush’s were. The only difference is that Clinton and Obama tried to work for the greater good within this “Hurray, I got to be a sort of president” paradigm.

    Instead of an RC into banks, why not have an RC into political appointments! You’d get the banks in the same RC, providing the lead RC judge is honourable (which is always a question of doubt – though laws may seem reasonable, judges use the QC heavy precedent system to favour the rich. QC’s were like business consultants are to execs who want the facade of independence to do whatever they want. What judge would be able to find Tim Wilson’s appointment as not being primarily a vested interest based scenario?

  10. James

    Im predicting a hung parliament and labor more likely to form government. I think State factors will come into play particulalrly in NSW (my home state) where Baird is on the nose.

  11. Douglas Evans

    It is remarkable the way that the stars have aligned to bring Labor back into this election and save Bill Shorten’s bacon. The election is Turnbull’s to lose (and he just might) rather than Labor’s to win (but they just might anyway). Much depends on whether the polls continue to tighten or plateau at current levels. One of the more trustworthy interpreters of such matters William Bowes at Crikey still has the Coalition with its nose in front 50.7% to 49.3% and Coalition winning 82 seats to Labor 63. State by State, according to Bowes Labor is only ahead in the seat count in Victoria and in ‘The Territories’. Everywhere else they still trail the Coalition. The tea-leaf readers at the ABC more or less agree so it looks as though the trend to Labor must continue a while longer for them to be in a winning position. I think I heard Barrie Cassidy say that the bookies had Labor as an $8 bet (what’s that 16/1?) so they don’t yet think Labor is going to win either. One of the more fascinating aspects of this election is the way in which changing circumstances have (temporarily at least) jolted Labor out of tailoring policy to fit their perceptions of what will play in the marginals to advocating for a world view refreshingly reminiscent of the Party’s social democratic roots. Waleed Aly wrote a very interesting piece on that which appeared in Fairfax yesterday. Long may it last. It is interesting also that the polls are showing that almost 1 in 4 voters don’t intend to vote for either ALP or Coalition. Bowes has the Greens’ vote on 12.1%, PUP fading to nothing (0.7%) and ‘Others’ (Nick Xenophon Team?) on 10.9%.

  12. z

    compare two major parties, Labor’s policy mostly in favour of working class whose were majority of the voters, look after local job and local livelihood, poll was been played by media, that just sort of rubbish, election will reflect public opinion, top end of the town merely a few minority

  13. Douglas Evans

    z
    Not sure if your comment was a response to me but I’ll respond anyhow. From my perspective Labor policy has for decades had a split right down the middle. Yes they retain their commitment to Health, Education and Welfare policies that despite their slide to the right (also in these areas) still reflects an underlying commitment to social justice. On the other hand since the 1980s they have adopted neo-liberal economic policies that have actively promoted the growth in inequality we have seen over that time. So with the one hand you exacerbate a problem that you attempt to patch up with the other. To take another example; Labor, under Gillard, with considerable urging from the cross benches, implemented a progressive suite of climate change policies, the benefits of which were completely undone by the energy policies driven through by Martin Ferguson. With the one hand you embrace the change we cannot avoid. With the other you protect the commercial interests trying, at great environmental cost to squeeze the last few bucks out of the old economy. Don’t know about you but I can’t give my first preference to that mess. What I find encouraging at the moment is that Labor seems prepared to take baby steps towards winding back its neo-liberal obsessions.

  14. cornlegend

    I had a bet on the LNP to win and nothing has changed that perception {at this stage} though, at the time I did have a smaller bet on Labor at 12/1
    Currently Sportsbet have Coalition $1.30 Labor $3.50
    The problem facing Labor is they need a uniform swing of around 5% in 21 Seats, just to get square and from what I have read all the polls are based on voting patterns from 2013 as far as preferencing goes, to achieve the 2 party result
    Indications are there is even a chance Xenophon could get in front of Labor in S.A. {Galaxy have the Xenophon party on 24% of the primaries at this stage}
    After the kerfuffle on Senate voting and 30 or more Independents and Micros getting together to run candidates against the Greens the preference flow from Greens to Labor could be dicey and with almost half the H.O.R taking the retirement option, new candidates face a bit of time getting known .
    All I’m hoping is the DD doesn’t happen and the election is held at the correct time.
    That will give the LNP more time to stuff up, further enhancing Labors slim hope

  15. ImagiNation

    Conspiracy – An agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
    Theory – A proposed explanation based on research whose status is not yet accepted.
    Conspiracy Theory – The belief that a certain event or economic or social trend could be the product of a plot largely unknown to the general public.

    According to a new report from the Jubilee Debt Campaign, there are currently 24 countries in the world that are facing a full-blown debt crisis…
    Armenia, Belize, Costa Rica, Croatia, Cyprus, Dominican Republic, El Salvador, The Gambia, Greece, Grenada, Ireland, Jamaica, Lebanon, Macedonia, Marshall Islands, Montenegro, Portugal, Spain, Sri Lanka, St Vincent and the Grenadines, Tunisia, Ukraine, Sudan and Zimbabwe.
    And there are another 14 nations that are right on the verge of one…
    Bhutan, Cape Verde, Dominica, Ethiopia, Ghana, Laos, Mauritania, Mongolia, Mozambique, Samoa, Sao Tome e Principe, Senegal, Tanzania, Uganda.
    And three more that could tip either way…
    USA, UK and Australia.
    It is general knowledge that in all of the above countries, their situation is a direct result of escalating debt to the IMF. On default of payment, the IMF imposes draconian austerity measures then loots the country of it’s resources and assets. Time after time.
    Now that Australins is in it’s post mining boom crisis, Australia needs to be extremity vigilant.

    http://jubileedebt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/The-new-debt-trap_07.15.pdf

  16. Linda Baggio

    I agree. It’s a long road to victory. Just loving sitting back and watching the Govt implode.
    Labor needs a reverse Tampa moment.

    Glad to see the revival of the Street Corner meetings. Govt is about listening to what the people want.

  17. Jaquix

    To everyone’s surprise, there were massive swings away from the Newman led LNP in Queensland last election. In some cases 19%. And Labor went from having only 9 seats (and an untried woman leader)to a majority (just) to take government. Yet all the polls showed LNP to win, and Murdoch press flogging the LNP line. So it CAN be done.

  18. Gangey1959

    We have all been hearing all of the carry-on about billy shortarse’s union connections being bad for the country from the current disaster of an ‘opposition ion power’ pseudo government, and we have heard some degree of counter crap from the alp about the lnp(ipa)’s inability toi achieve anything at all for anyone except themselves or the 1%ers. (Just as a point of interest, considering how much bullshit has been talked and money spent on patch- holder motorcycle club members being declared persona non grata, 1%ers are the baddest of the bad).
    Shortarse doesn’t seem to have the charisma to become PM. Pure and simple. And he is framing his campaign around the unions versus big business as in top hats V hard hats.
    WRONG
    If the alp want to pick up the undecided voters, the ones who are REALLY being hit by everything that is coming and going they need to focus on the NON UNION workers. I’ve just started 2 weeks ago doing 2 days a week at a place in eastern Melboune. No names. Its non union, and pushing that barrow is not a good idea. They are a good, friendly company and all, but they just don’t need to pay very much, because unskilled labour is too easy to get.
    I get about $24 as a casual. The full timers are on just under $25. Minus tax. We’d all love to be on a union site, wearing a hard hat, earning $30+ hr.
    Just a thought mr shortarse, but how about framing the campaign at stuffed shirts V safety shirts. We ALL wear them. Its just those of us doing things really hard are the ones without the pretty embroidery and stickers on our hats etc etc.
    Do something for us, like set a $30hr minimum wage for 457 visa holders and tourist workers, and make our OT un-taxed or normal tax. Just a couple of ideas, but it’ll get you our votes.
    Meanwhile, I’m just NOT going to vote lnp. Mr shortarse still has to convince me to vote FOR his party.

    RAGE ON

  19. Douglas Evans

    Jaquix
    Yes fingers crossed. Here’s hoping!

  20. 2353

    Shorten seems to be following a similar strategy to Andrews in Victoria and Palaszczuk in Queensland and demonstrably it is successful. If he does win, I would be thinking that Bishop the younger or Kevin Andrews will be Opposition Leader. The Coalition however need to have a purge of the hangers on and the fundamentalists to come back towards the Centre. While Bishop might go there, Andrews will drive them into irrelevance.

    It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the ALP will be the ‘conservative’ party and the Greens playing the ‘progressive’ role in the next 20 or so years.

  21. diannaart

    I agree, Diane, with your suggestion at April 15, 2016 at 2:24 pm, that a better question is:

    “Which team do you trust to govern for all Australians?”

    Followed up by pictures of Pyne compared to Tania Plibersek, Mathias Cormann compared to Albo, Hunt compared to Penny Wong and so on.

    Turnbull may still have some shiny charisma left, but the Team itself is not very impressive, in fact, more a liability.

  22. paul walter

    What a superb person you are, Linda Baggio.

    One amusing facet has been the msm this week going “lifestyle” to suffocate a civil society revival through refusal of news.

  23. John Kelly

    ImagiNation, I don’t know what your sources are on those debt bubbles but I can assure you Australia is in no way indebted to the IMF. I assume you are talking about government debt, but if not, while private debt in Australia is living on the edge at 120% of GDP, that also is in no way linked to the IMF.

  24. John Kelly

    2353, the prospect of Kevin Andrews as Opposition leader would be a delicious idea. He would be Tony Abbott Mk 2.

  25. z

    if LNP still in Gover’t after election, 15% GST hike most likely would comeback

  26. Graeme Henchel

    John I normally agree with everything you say. But “Turnbull is not a disaster” has me questioning. His one great achievement is to remove the Thug. Other than that ???????. He will prove to be a disaster for the coalition but in defeat a benefit for the country. Malcolm could have been a contender but his ego unfortunately has trumped his principles ( assuming he actually had some at one stage )

    A new poem for your enjoyment.

    Mr. Fraudband ( to the tune of Mr Sandman)

    Mr. Fraudband you’ve screwed our dream
    Made the biggest mess that we’ve ever seen
    You lied with Abbott to get elected
    Made sure that Murdochs pay TV was protected

    Fraud man you’re Abbott’s clone
    Don’t have a vision to call your own
    What you’ve done is quite obscene
    Mr Fraudband you’ve screwed our dream

    Mr Fraudband you’ve screwed our dream
    Made the biggest mess that we’ve ever seen
    We wanted fibre right into the home
    We’ve got a nightmare from the twilight zone

    Mr Fraudband now you’re in charge
    You’ll screw your party and the country at large
    You only care about the top end of town
    You are no better than the clown you took down

    Mr. Fraudband you’ve been exposed
    A snake oil man with political prose
    Your lying makes me want to scream
    Mr. Fraudband screwed us (it’s so exciting)
    Mr. Fraudband screwed up our dream

  27. wam

    bobrafto i pissed myself at your words
    “lest you folks forget, I predicted Shorten as PM and Abbott as opp. leader.
    Simple logic really. Who is the Lnp going to vote for as leader when they win the election? Who has form as the best opp. leader?”

    Labor can win!!!!! with turnball and the loony boys showing their threadbare bums and when the CANDIDATES and members work the bbq, school fete and local government circuits.

  28. John Kelly

    Graeme, always amazed at your creativity. Compile your poems into a book and self publish. It will sell.

  29. Bacchus

    I agree John – excellent work Graeme!

  30. mark

    who’d want the job of fixing 20 years of liberalism.Not me.mark

  31. Jack

    Beware of the House of Cards Man Tony Abbott he never sleeps. He ain’t no Francis Underwood though he’s still in the game.

  32. Jack

    I don’t think Shorten has got the smarts to win. He’s too conservative and he’s not quick enough on his feet.

  33. Douglas Evans

    Whoever forms government the cross bench in the HOR is likely to be influential after the coming election. In Victoria three Labor seats (Wills, Batman and Melbourne Ports) are rated possible Greens gains. Assuming Adam Bandt holds Melbourne, if any of these change hands it unfortunately makes the mountain a little higher for the ALP. Whether any of these change hands or not, the chance that it might occur means that the ALP must direct scarce resources to campaigning in seats they have historically taken for granted. One Liberal seat, Kelly O’Dwyer’s seat of Higgins is rated a chance of going Green with the high profile gay former AFL footballer Jason Ball standing for the Greens. Personally I think this is very unlikely as it depends on the ALP directing preferences to the Greens. In South Australia the Nick Xenophon team is a chance to grab one or two HOR seats. It’s not impossible that the next cross bench might hold the balance of power and comprise two Greens, two NXT and Andrew Wilkie who looks a good chance to retain Dennison in Tasmania. Even if the ALP falls short such a cross bench would be a good bulwark against neo-conservative ratbaggery.

  34. Terry2

    There is another telling factor which could benefit Labor and that is the quite evident split with the Liberal Party between the far-right led by Tony Abbott and the moderates who want to return the party to the centre, led by Turnbull.

    When Turnbull told the Party that they were not driven by factions he was roundly jeered and it is now clear that the “faceless men” who do the pre-selections hold the power so what happens in Mackellar today will be quite instructive.

    It seems that the Abbott camp are confident in getting their man up (Walter Villatora) and the moderates are keen to see Bronwyn get another run even though they acknowledge that she is a spent force and has nothing to contribute (to the bum-fight – sorry ).

    The question is, how long the electorate will tolerate this manipulation before they (we) take back control of our of the democracy.

    Anybody in Mackellar out there who can give us a heads-up on how the electorate are thinking ?

  35. Salstar

    I think it is OVER TIME that people start concentrating on the POLICIES and not the leader. Admittedly, the fascist Abbott was such a diabolical and epic failure, it was almost impossible to ignore his catastrophic mismanagement as the worst, most internationally condemned PM in our history. However, Labor should now change tactics and present a UNITED FRONT as an EFFECTIVE TEAM. Unlike Turnbull who has a cabinet overflowing with ineffectual, hopelessly regressive, bible thumping hypocrites and inept, draconian wowsers standing behind him, Shorten is blessed with some very talented, articulate and effective team members, eg the articulate and impressive Tony Burke, the passionate Doug Cameron who is the working-class man’s best friend, an excellent array of intelligent female MPs such as Tanya Plibersek, Penny Wong, Kate Ellis, Catherine King and Jenny Macklin, fantastic talents like Chris Bowen, Anthony Albanese and many others!

    The strength of the ALP is in their TEAM MEMBERS compared to the hopeless array of corrupt, self serving, rorters and screaming harridans like Bronwyn Bishop (enough said!), the hysterical Michaela Cash (good God!), Arthur Sinodinas (whose staggering corruption is STILL under investigation); the swaggering self important idiot, Barnaby Joyce who keeps putting his Size 15 foot in his mouth and making an international fool of himself; the notorious fascist, Eric Abetz – a notorious ultra conservative member of Abbott’s screaming lunatic fringe; the self righteous Kevin Andrews; the whining and truly offensive Christopher Pyne who is so despised in his own electorate, he probably won’t win his seat back at the next election anyway; the sneering condescending Mathias Cormann; the frothing-at-the-mouth lunatic, Corey Bernardi; the unspeakable callously inhumane Scott Morrison and the lacklustre, boring pen pusher, Dutton and , finally, the smug, supercilious elitist, Malcolm Turnbull who turned out to be the BIGGEST disappointment since his toxic predecessor! Could they get worse?

    The ALP TEAM is the BEST WEAPON they have against the collection of screaming, bible thumping, self entitled LIARS and thieves in the LNP who have betrayed EVERY Australian who was foolish enough to vote for them! The LNP are NOT a team, they are a pack of self-promoting individuals who are backstabbing each other to get to the top. Their ONLY priority is to the TOP 0.01% of the obscenely rich mining and banking “royalty” whom the LNP have now turned into a rare and protected species who do not contribute ONE CENT of tax to the country yet are bleeding us DRY!

    The ALP TEAM need to place a FOCUS on the horrendous disunity of the LNP. The LNP’s abject failure to present as a professional, progressive cabinet is clear and evident and only the most gormless, Murdoch manipulated idiot would even consider voting these fascists back into power AGAIN! Already, we have Mike Baird passing policies to make democratic protesting ILLEGAL … what’s next? The LNP are stomping on free speech, selling our land off to the Chinese for a song, allowing huge multinational predators free reign to vandalise our environment, bringing in cheap labour from overseas, defunding our children’s education, defunding medical research, sacking EVERY scientist in the CSIRO whose integral work on climate change research is now lost, defunding health, desperately trying to privatise our valued and world renowned Medicare system! The LNP have DESTROYED everything we love about this country … squashed our belief in an egalitarian society, have betrayed their rural heartland by introducing horrendous CSG fracking and, worse, signed us up to the TPP which will destroy thousands of jobs and put Australia’s interest way behind that of the big players, ie the USA, China and Japan!

    If the LNP win the next election, the oligarchical neoliberal monsters in the LNP will turn this country into the 51st State of the USA. God help us!

  36. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Salstar (or Salstarat?),

    once again a comprehensive description of the fraudster LNPees and a reasonable overview of what Labor can offer the electorate if it pursues a progressive agenda in reversing, and then vastly improving, every damaging, destructive political decision the Degenerates have imposed in the last 2 1/2 years.

    Labor must make some extra friends in the Greens, sane Independents on the Crossbenches like Lazarus, Muir, Lambie, Wilkie, and any upcoming Progressive Parties that are fielding candidates. Labor must show the electorate that it is forming this Alliance so that the voters are confident that Labor values good, diverse policies that represent diverse demographics in the Australian electorates. This will help raise the percentage required for Labor to snatch victory on 2 July 2016.

    Then from Day 1 of the new Government, work for the enshrinement of the Alliance must happen, so these valuable principles and relationships are consummated.

  37. cornlegend

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith
    Labor has already had deep and meaningfuls with the Micros and Indies after their meetings in Sydney and Melbourne and from my understanding discussions on preferences are well in hand.
    Again, from info obtained there have been some Parties left out of discussions particularly in Feeney Albo, and Pliberseks seats and Fremantle

  38. Rezblah

    All too tragically true salstar 🙁

    I fear our frog is almost boiled. The Howard government demonstrated how much you can getaway with with no fear of reprisal and this has set the scene for abbots aggressive leaps forward with the RWNJ agenda. For it all to be so clearly and blatantly out on the open with STILL no reaction from the population simply beggars belief.

    I think we’re way past the point of a peaceful solution to it all too. It’ll ultimately come down to revolution, anything else will simply be ignored like it had been for decades. Occupy Wall Street? Nice try but no cigar.

    The East Germans condemned 3 generations to life under the iron curtain before they finally woke up. How many generations are we about to stand by and condemn to poverty and corporate enslavement?

    There are only 1% of them, they are outnumbered by 99 to 1. It’s complete bluff and falls in a heap the second the people wake up and realize and decide enough is enough.

    The clock is ticking

  39. Salstar

    Rezblah, that is exactly true. People of Australia should always remember:
    THE POWER OF PEOPLE IS FAR GREATER THAN THE PEOPLE IN POWER ….

  40. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Thanks cornlegend.

    Labor should take every opportunity to show that such discussions and agreements are occurring between themselves and the Progressive micro-parties and sane Independents. That instills greater belief in the voters that Labor is capable of engaging with change-makers who represent alternative politics and policy values for the 99% and the environment.

  41. Rezblah

    You know this newish “1%” terminology seems all skewed towards the perceived power of the “1%” – it is exactly that, 1% – that are outnumbered by the other 99%!!! Is that seriously all that stands between us and taking control of our own democracy? 1 frigging incredibly measly %? Why on earth are the vast majority so easily beholden to so few? and what a truly pathetic few they are too. What a walk over it should be to create a nation by the people for the people. If a million people walked into Parliament House tomorrow and dragged that sad sorry lot out by their ears and booted them to the sidewalk it would be all over just like that for them. I know whose side id rather be on.

    Just saying!

    A barbarian response? Yes, but I really don’t think anything else will work at this point, the time for civilized pleasantries has passed, the TPP is a clear indicator of that just for starters. Now that the 1% have well and truly taken the gloves off and are brazenly, openly waging war on the 99% no holds barred like never before (and like they have been for quite some time), the only thing that will stop it now is a bigger stick.

    I hope I’m wrong but I fear I’m not

  42. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Rezblah,

    you’re right of course. Actions, not words. But actions based on well planned and negotiations between diverse representative groups.

  43. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Mobius,

    you’re right to remind me and us of Shorten’s credit 10 years ago. But I want him to show that same compassion and full-sighted advocacy for ALL vulnerable Australians, Refugees and the Environment.

  44. Olivia Manor

    Wait for the Murdoch press to go full steam ahead, on Shorten’s alleged rape charges, should the ALP continue to rise in the polls. That, coupled with Shorten’s “corrupt union affiliation” will make some ugly and very personal front page headlines just prior to the election. And then there could always be that convenient terrorist plot just a few days before we vote. Just saying!

  45. Bighead1883

    Will Federal Labor follow their Queensland counterparts who at great odds against pulled off the “accordingly impossible” as to all MSM

    The ABC`s Chris Uhlmann was a sight to behold frantically calling an LNP victory when all was lost

    John where you wrote of the personal character attacks on Bill Shorten over the last two years even though he`s come through quite squeaky clean even presenters like Barrie Cassidy open many a topic with “Bill Shorten sustained lots of damage over the TURC”
    Where of course the opposite is well known

    The part which will interest me the most will be if Federal Labor will follow Queensland and say “No Deal;Greens”

    Some rumours escaping Canberra last week said that the LNP was backing out of the 1-6 or 1-12 below the line voting and they wanted it left as is-which is the original Shambolic electoral reform

    This week in Canberra will be probably the most crucial for Australia`s sanity since “The Dismissal”

  46. randalstella

    All of the words below come from Bighead1883. The first is from the post on AIMN, just above. The rest are from Independent Australia.

    Bighead1883, 17/4/16 @12;24 am
    “… the personal character attacks on Bill Shorten…”

    Bighead1883 • 2 years ago

    Look bihp Shorten is the bane of all Labor`s pain.
    He said just the other day that Labor should never have abandoned “Howard`s Pacific Solution” in 2008 and he wanted to assure all that although he would like to see less cruelty from the LNP,his support for offshore detention is bi-partisan,WTF Ball Scrotum
    He`s obviously busy with the CIA discussing options in case there is a DD and he`ll want to know from the USA as how should he govern Australia for them when the LNP are turfed.
    Really he should be making not only a meal of this incompetent lot,it should be a banquet.

    The simplistic answer is that Shorten and his “Conservative Dozen” of Labor Unity and SDA are steering Labor to be a Right Wing Political Party,ala the US Democrats which are corporate owned.
    That is it and they all used the unions [whom they now want to distance themselves from] to get to where they are “politically”..
    For those who can`t see that,well,take off your rose coloured Labor glasses and take a dose of reality.

    If the traitorous Labor Unity, Shorten`s faction and Gillard`s as well had not been so when Rudd was trying to curtail Murdoch by forcing him to divest the percentage media control he has in Australia this may well have never been.
    We can be sure with Abbott&Co and the Right Wing Labor Party under Shorten will assist more of this

    Self praise is no recommendation and Abbott is to the right of Thatcher and only slightly Left of Mussolini.
    Shorten is as you say,a RWNJ who belongs on the Liberal`s backbench.

    The LNP has a problem with the Greens as well because they don`t want them to exist just like the Labor Right so as all elections are just 2 party and this is not good for Democracy.

    “Team Australia” Shorten the first Conservative Leader of the ALP.

    I have copped shit from idiots who have been Shorten supporters since 2009,now they are called out and I argue my point,so COME ON DOWN,you know who you all are.
    I`ve told you this right from the start Diss.

    No masking,no cloaks,no hey it`s Labor,because it`s not.
    Shorten is the problem not the cure.
    Spread this because I`d rather die on my feet fighting than grovel to Oligarchy.

    All good Diss and you go about things within your comfort zone.
    I`ve started on Twitter and it won`t stop until he`s gone.
    They`re slowly coming to reality because so many H8 Abbott that they forgot to look at Shorty.
    He makes these I`m Labor Power Point presentations and then curls up again as his bosses tell him.
    Hey Shorty your fan clubs pissed off you better do the PJ Proby and split your pink flairs again.

    Can I let you in on the biggest open secret in Australia JB?
    Bill Shorten began destabilising the Rudd government from the moment it formed.
    He catapulted Julia into the PMship in order that Abbott wins in 2010 because that was the backroom deal done by those ready to strip all Australia and Australians bare.
    But the electorate denied them and you saw the amazement of Abbott&Co at their comeuppence with Rupervert attacking with re-newed vigour non stop until,8/9/`13.
    The right faction spin army works Twitter as well and I`m unmasking some and they`re running.
    My story has not changed concerning Shorty since 2009 when I saw his and Arbib`s hands

  47. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    For good or for bad, Shorten is Labor leader at this point of time and for ALL of us who demand a change of government on 2 July 2016, we should be working together to make that happen.

    That is why it is essential that Labor and the Greens plus the Progressive parties and sane Independents should be seen clearly and widely that they are working together to make the change of government happen.

    The reality is Shorten would be the new PM but I would advise Shorten not to rest on his laurels for having won the PM’s crown.

    It will be a crown of thorns, if he does not honour the negotiations that should be happening right now between the parties of the Alliance.

    Working towards inclusive, alternative, progressive policies and procedures that meet the needs of diverse Australians is the way forward for Shorten’s Labor and their friends in the Alliance.

  48. randalstella

    And there’s plenty more where that came from; and it is not confined to Bighead1883.

  49. randalstella

    Jennifer,
    The point of my post was perfectly obvious. The purpose of my post was not an attack on Shorten.
    It was about the matter of trust that we have discussed briefly in the past.

  50. Bighead1883

    randalstellaApril 17, 2016 at 10:04 am

    Thank you for that well written piece randallstella, OH I wrote it
    Now to paraphrase my own words ending that comment my story on Shorten and what has changed

    Firstly he`s turned left,especially ALPNatCon2014 more especially in 2015 and this year has seen a return to many values we once had before
    Now with the 2016 ALP Conference 2016 held in NSW Bill Shorten came of age and the only dislike I have,being anti war is our involvement in Syria/Iraq as well as the South China Sea [US Foreign Policy dictates]

    Secondly he`s part of the whole political spectrum who`ve gained Party leadership under controversial circumstances

    Thirdly his chance of attaining government and being PM are real and likely,unlike di Natale

    I`m still a Ruddite and support his Sec Gen UN aspirations

    I also believe you Greens will be decimated in the DD Shambolic electoral reform

    And I also believe you`re trolling me,but trolling by Greens of Labor supporters is allowed here so it must be alright
    But the Story for Greens is hypocritical no end as SHY yesterday came out openly with Malay/Indo AS offshore processing policy [WHICH Greens had in a similar vane concerning Malaysia when they denied Gillard`s Labor it`s Malaysian solution}

    I`ll play tit for tat with trolls,no problem

  51. Bighead1883

    randalstella April 17, 2016 at 10:35 am
    “And there’s plenty more where that came from; and it is not confined to Bighead1883”

    Unlike Greens,we in Labor not only discuss our differences we form Democratic groups for change
    Öur ALP
    Open Labor
    and Grey Power Labor are three,but there are lots more

    Peter Wicks writes quite a deal on the troubles of Sussex Street and the clean out of Labor in QLD after Rudd1 and then Rudd 2 seeing Newman go shows what can be achieved with new blood

    Andrews in Victoria is the biggest breath of fresh air in Australia even with the first parliamentary act the Aqua/Greens did was vote with the LNP in the Leg Council for a LNP President
    Decriminalising medicinal cannabis there will see a flow on effect

    Now randalstella Labor went leaps and bounds further when it listened to R&F and supporters and started up it`s own media again “Labor Herald” you can look in there where I also tear of the odd piece from politicians who I think deserve it

    In saying all this all I can see from you rsndallstella are veiled threats and trolling to me

    Yesterday I had the AIM Network tell me the do`s and don`ts so I`ll adhere to this,we`ll see if you do?

  52. randalstella

    Bighead. You have as much tit to tat with as you have wit. You have been completely exposed. It was not hard. You have zero credibility. You demean this site.

    ‘You Greens’. This dysfunction actually thinks it’s campaigning for Labor. I am concerned that this raving could be taken as representative of the Labor Party my family worked for.

    When he is not calling people ‘Greens’ – for a concern for the facts on record – he’s calling posters ‘filth’ and ‘criminals’. ‘Kill the Greens and spill their blood’
    People have been banned from this site for very much less. Very, very much less.

  53. Michael Taylor

    But – getting back to the question – can Shorten win? I’m starting to believe he can.

    One thing I think Labor is doing wrong is that the little posters they’re starting to get out there. They don’t do anything for me, and I assume, many others. For example, they have things on them like “Labor will increase hospital funding”. They’re not saying how it differs from what the government is doing or more importantly what the public will benefit from Labor’s policy.

    In the public service, when addressing selection criteria in a job application you’d do say by covering three things: what you know, what you did it, and what the end benefits were. In other words you were selling yourself. Labor clearly isn’t doing this good enough.

  54. Bighead1883

    Michael Taylor April 17, 2016 at 11:24 am

    There you have it then Michael

  55. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Good point, Michael. (This comment relevant to both your last posts!)

  56. Alpo

    Of course the ALP is heading for victory, but they won’t control the Senate. There we will see all what Shorten has learned as a Union leader in terms of negotiating skills, now directed to Greens and probably Xenophon. Labor have done very well at focusing on developing sound policies. Most of them go in exactly the correct Social Democratic direction, although there is still some residual Neoliberalism in there in the thoughts of the economic team (Chris Bowen, Andrew Leigh). But at this point in time I don’t lose my sleep over it as I see the process of departure from Neoliberalism as an Evolution, rather than a Revolution. However, I strongly urge Labor to be more ambitious and start thinking about how to give shape to a more comprehensive Social Democratic view that can then be translated into policies across the board. This new view must not only include the classic concerns of Social Democracy: economic development and social fairness, but also add the issue of environmental sustainability. With regard to the economic approach more specifically, the team must inform themselves about the new alternatives to Neoliberalism (I am currently trying to understand in greater detail what Modern Monetary Theory is about) and use the first term to polish their position so that at the following election they can be even clearer to the People about the direction they want to take the country to.

  57. Bighead1883

    Michael Taylor

    The small soundbites electioneering done in grabshots is a dictate of the conservative owned MSM

    I agree it`s no different to sloganeering but how does Labor get its messaging across MSM?

    We waited the other day for a presser done with the ABC in tow on first Bowen in his reply to ScoMo-it never showed,at all

    Then have a look at Albo and Pyne on Today,if and when Albo gets a word in he buries Pyne`s crap where it belongs

  58. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Hear, hear Alpo.

  59. Backyard Bob

    The signs are increasingly positive for Labor. More and more people are adopting this optimistic view.

    https://leftinlimbodotcom.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/yes-labor-can-win-an-election-in-2016/

    The Coalition effectively placed the Government in caretaker mode when Turnbull was elected. Other than contrived and tokenistic waffle regarding the various things spoken of at length, they’ve done nothing. Whilst some in the Government might see this as “playing it safe”, I think ultimately it’s having the opposite effect. A seemingly impotent and inert Turnbull is about as electorally attractive as a pushy-peddling pencil-dick like Abbott.

    And I’ve never had an issue with tit for tat. I mean, if all a bloke has to do is a bit of lacework to get some….ok, anyhow …

  60. Michael Taylor

    I agree that the MSM is doing nothing to help Labor, but Labor is doing nothing to help the social media. For the last two years social media has done more for Labor than Labor has.

  61. Michael Taylor

    Bob, you might not have problems with tit for tat, but you try writing an article here and see it degenerate into fights between posters, often starting out with tit for tat but often degenerating into abuse. You wouldn’t like it.

    On top of that, 99% of our readers are sick of the tit for tat.

    Our authors and those 90% come first here. Not those who have no problem with tit for tat.

  62. paul walter

    Great comment from Michael Taylor.

    I think the ALP will form government on a very skinny majority. The the real question is, why not a landslide?
    Whether it goes any further than a term is another question, given the sometimes entrenched and hidebound thinking within its upper echelons.

    Nonetheless, it may be the default.

    The thought of what Turncoat and co will do if returned defies contemplation.

  63. Bighead1883

    Michael Taylor April 17, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    Supporters of Labor on social media have led the charge as you point out
    Yes on the whole your point is correct up until the AEC reforms going through the Senate

    Young Labor is active after being unsighted on social media [Facebook but not Tweeting]
    A number of pollies tweet regularly with even Dreyfus opening and tweeting for the first time a month or so ago
    Dastyari is the most switched on and Feeney will always have the latest war toys up on display
    {He must have the hots for Joe`s job in the future}
    Albo has used social media for years and Terri Butler is quite the Lady about the Web

    King and Albanese would be the best [Labor MP} users of social media IMHO

  64. diannaart

    I believe Labor have a chance – although that is not the reason I am voting for Labor for the first time in decades, I fear a further term of a deranged and Liberal party – whoever winds up leading it (and the thought of a resurrected Abbott is the stuff of nightmares).

    Possibly, in a future when Australian politics achieves an alliance of progressive parties & independents, someone will locate my words and try to confect a claim of hypocrisy against me; ‘human being changes mind and gives reasons’ – like that has never happened before.

    FYI

    Anyone thinks I am supporting someone here who predictably disses the Greens at any and every opportunity – I am not.

    PS

    Michael I do hope my comments do not fan the embers of the ‘tit 4 tat’ wars, not my intention.

  65. Backyard Bob

    Bob, you might not have problems with tit for tat

    Jesus, Michael, I was making a tit joke! Do you people have a sense of humour or what?

  66. Backyard Bob

    Paul,

    The the real question is, why not a landslide?

    I think the answer to that is simple enough: because it’s Turnbull, not Abbott. If it were still Abbott I think a “landslide”, of sorts, might have been possible. I suspect many in the Coalition know it too.

  67. Michael Taylor

    Diannaart, I’ve never known you to instigate or take part in any of that.

  68. Backyard Bob

    No sweat Michael. Don’t forget you do have formal posting rules you could cite now and then. Not sure how many people have ever visited the “Disclaimer” page to read them.

  69. diannaart

    Thank you, Michael, sometimes we start over analysing everything, when a thread goes pear-shaped.

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  72. Jaquix

    Apart from enjoying the wonderful quality and content of articles provided by TheAIM, Ive always enjoyed the quality of the comments, and lack of trolling.

  73. Michael Taylor

    Thank you, Jaquix. We appreciate that.

  74. Douglas Evans

    I’m with Michael and completely understand his exasperation. These days I am an infrequent visitor to this site and an even more infrequent contributor to comments streams. But now I’m here again I’ll have my two bob’s worth. I’m surprised by the vitriol that has shown up on this stream. In the past I have been crunched by both Randalstella and Bighead for my comments. They helped to remind me that I have better ways to spend my time. For that I thank them. Although in my comments I try to present reasons for assertions, I’m guilty of getting grumpy under pressure (you out there Cornlegend?) When this occurred it was a sure sign that it was time to take a break from my computer. It helped me. Perhaps it would help others also.

    Paul writes: ‘The real question is, why not a landslide.’ Backyard Bob points to the difference between public perceptions of Abbott and Turnbull. Fair enough but I reckon there are a couple of larger reasons that a landslide won’t happen. The simple truth is that Labor’s primary vote has been decaying steadily for over half a century. This started with the long boom in post war prosperity. It was a severe setback for the Labor vote when the DLP split off and it didn’t help their cause when the Greens claimed the Social Democratic space Labor had ignored for a couple of decades. The two party system is breaking down. This won’t reverse. At the moment about one in four Australians do not vote for either Coalition or Labor. This will only increase.

    The progressive dilemma is that soon enough government will only be possible if Labor and the Greens form a coalition or make some similar arrangement. This is because for every seat that the Greens take from the coalition (and this has already occurred at a State level) they will take two or three from Labor. This is unfortunate for the progressive vote but as I wrote above the voting trajectory in currently three inner Melbourne seats is unmistakable. It might not happen this election or even the one following, but it is coming. Victorian Liberal power broker Michael Kroger recognizes this. He has already seen the possibility of doing some serious damage to Labor by directing preferences to the Greens and I guess it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that in NSW the same might occur at some stage. This is the downside of mandatory distribution of preferences. Labor could have a piece of this pie. If they decided to direct preferences to the Greens in Higgins it could be that Kelly O’Dwyer could be shoved out the door. But no-one should expect this. Never underestimate Labor’s unreasoning, visceral hatred of the Greens prior to an election. Of course depending on circumstances as we have seen a couple of times this can be forgotten after an election.

    Of course as plenty of others have noted the decay of the two party system is not only happening on the left. Similar splits are evident on the right but we don’t yet know what this will lead to. Here’s hoping for complete chaos.

  75. randalstella

    Thanks for the moral equivalence Doug. Much appreciated. I remember you as more acute than that.
    It was an anti-Union thing you were on about, that brought my response. I don’t like the Greens going anti-Union, on such a contrivance as that Hayden RC. Of course there is Union corruption. I have fought it. This is not a pleasant society. There is corruption around most corners. Singling out the Unions carries very anti-progressive connotations, unless you are careful.
    The RC was bound to come up with Union rorts. But the thing about the curate’s egg is that while it is ‘goodly in parts’, it is wholly inedible. The RC was a corrupt use of power, and an abuse of process, through and through; as the rehearsal provided Kathy Jackson showed
    It disappointed me that someone with your ability to gather facts and argue a point progressively would harp on. There is enough anti-Green scuttlebutt about. I was concerned you were giving them ammunition.

    Funnily enough, I was about to suggest that this site ‘dig you up’ – as the saying goes – to offer you space for an article or two. I would look forward to reading them,as I have your posts elsewhere.
    It might be an idea. If Doug is willing, how about it Michael?

  76. Michael Taylor

    Randastella, everybody is welcome to submit an article.

  77. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Good to see I’m not the only one, who sees the need for the Alliance to start working!

    Labor alone cannot sustain the defence against the attack of regressive politics on its own. The LNP are imploding without Labor’s assistance. Sustained removal of the LNP as Government takes much more.

    Labor needs the Greens for the reasons given above. Labor also needs the real, alternative and innovative Progressives from the numerous upcoming parties on the Left and the Centre. Some sane and smart Independents from the Crossbenches are the icing on the cake.

    Shorten for the Short Term of the New Government. Then, the Alliance must start operating as the blend of Left and Centre parties that put social-democratic values for all socio-demographic people and the Environment first and foremost and where the Economy works accordingly for these values.

  78. Bighead1883

    Jennifer Meyer-SmithApril 17, 2016 at 5:13 pm
    “Good to see I’m not the only one, who sees the need for the Alliance to start working!”

    Is there some other planet where this alliance is?
    Greens asking for Liberal specifically targeting Labor inner city seats
    Is it that alliance?
    Or is it the one in NSW where they`re making deals with LNP targeting Labor seats?

    WHAT ALLIANCE=NO DEAL GREENS

    Liberal tensions soar over talk of a ‘loose arrangement’ with the Greens

    Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/liberal-tensions-soar-over-talk-of-a-loose-arrangement-with-the-greens-20160416-go7w6m.html#ixzz464Hg1Q00
    Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

  79. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Bighead1883,

    maybe you need to change your glasses from being a Labor bean-counter to a Labor luminary!

    Then Luminaries would see the sense of taking this action as opposed to awaiting their extinction.

    By the way Bighead, I would say the same to any Greens bean-counter who refuses to mould with the Alliance.

    NO ONE party can do it alone these days and neither SHOULD they be allowed by the Australian people.

    It takes much negotiation of values and actions to make things work for the greatest goals for the greatest number of people.

  80. Bighead1883

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith April 17, 2016 at 6:12 pm

    You aspirations are admirable and I had the same ones up until August 2009

    My eyes were opened and I see

    I`m one of thousands pushing for NO Labor preferences to Greens in the Senate this #AusVotes2016

    Thank you and have a nice Sunday evening

  81. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Bighead1883,

    don’t attempt to shut off the discussion of an effective, working Alliance between the Greens, Labor, Progressives and sane Indies!

    We’ve all been around the block a few times and we all have a right to speak out for what we see as best for our voting public.

    Have a nice Sunday night yourself.

  82. Bighead1883

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith April 17, 2016 at 6:36 pm

    I`ll partake in intelligent debate,but I won`t partake in whatever false accusation you make

    Dream up your proposal as you wish but the same push that Annastacia Palaszczuk took in Queensland we want taken Federally

    The end of next week will tell us so much more

    My debate is over and you`re welcome to the last words

    goodnight
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CgNzT_-UAAACtX3.jpg

  83. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Bighead1883,

    if we were all in the same room right now, we would join each other in a group hug which means Community.

    Your support of proper Labor is commendable. Current Labor needs to step up to what you expect it to be.

    Don’t give up hope of our Common Ground.

    The Alliance is happening regardless of the losers misguiding right now.

    PS I have expressed my thoughts on the Truck Contractor discussion already. My thoughts are that Malcolm & his LNP malcontents support only the better resourced over-arching owners NOT the contractors even IF they own their trucks!

    Malcolm is the supreme BULLSHIT ARTIST

  84. Miriam English

    I came a bit late to this article. Lots of food for thought, as usual, John Kelly.

    What I love more than anything is that there is so much good sense in the discussion the article provoked. I’m so very often impressed with the audience of AIMN. Great articles, and superb comments. Jennifer Meyer-Smith, we can always get sane, thoughtful comments from you. Douglas Evans, wonderfully insightful comments! Rezblah, Graeme Henchel, Diannaart, Salstar, Michael Taylor holding it all together. So much coolness here.

    AIMN is such an amazing place.

  85. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Good on you Miriam for your intelligent and smoothing hands and thoughts.

  86. paul walter

    I am glad Doug Evans enlarged on the topic and for Randalstellas add.

  87. Bighead1883

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith April 17, 2016 at 7:43 pm

    Just finished a lovely dinner of Beef&Black Bean with Jasmine rice yum

    I`m ever so sorry Jennifer I don`t buy any of it because Greens are busily making deals with the LNP and continue tomorrow

    So please do understand that Socialists in Labor want nothing to do with the Greens and the Centre Right certainly don`t

    Why does Labor want to deal with those who support the Tory

  88. Roswell

    Miriam, I hope you don’t mind but I removed a bit of your comment. With the fighting we’ve seen here the last couple of days it would probably be best to avoid pointing any fingers. I’m sure you’ll understand. Michael has asked me to moderate again for a while, so I’m just following orders. ?

  89. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Bighead1883,

    unfortunately I don’t see you as a Socialist.

    You and your kind are divorcing any contact from any collegiate bodies especially the Greens, Progressive Parties and sane Indies.

  90. Douglas Evans

    Jennifer Meyer-Smith
    As you see, when it comes to their natural allies the Greens, Labor’s enormous sense of entitlement will prevent any rational exploration of the possibilities for collaboration. This blindness goes far up the pecking order. I recently heard that someone whose integrity and intelligence I have had high regard for, Labor elder, former Deputy PM Brian Howe shares Bighead’s views.

  91. Roswell

    Jennifer, I’ve removed some of your comment too. Let’s not provoke people or inflame the situation. Please.

  92. Miriam English

    Roswell, fair enough. Perfectly understandable. I was wrong to do so. My comment is much better after your edit. I’m grateful.

  93. Roswell

    Thank you, Miriam. I’m aware that this site appreciates and encourages differing opinions, but some like to make it personal. You’re clearly not one of them.

  94. Miriam English

    Bighead1883, I’m puzzled. You ask, “Why does Labor want to deal with those who support the Tory”. Yet Labor make deals with the LNP far more than the Greens do. The Greens have stood against the LNP far more often than Labor have.

    Labor and the Greens should realise they are natural allies. Both parties want more or less the same things, centering around social justice. Together they can beat the LNP. Alone, it will be a dicey proposition. The LNP would love for the Greens and Labor to become enemies because when they’re separated the LNP have a much better chance at winning the election.

  95. Douglas Evans

    Just for the record and to add a little balance to what is being spread around in this comments stream about preference swaps this is what The Greens have to say about this matter.

    “There is no preference deal with the Liberal Party or any other party. It is disappointing that Anthony Albanese and the Labor Party are spreading lies to scare progressive voters. Unlike the Labor Party, the Greens make decisions around preferences, policy and candidates with our membership. We disagree with the Liberal Party on almost everything. It’s the Labor Party that have a long history of swapping preferences with the Liberals.

    The Greens are the only party standing up to the Liberal Party, and that’s why Labor is scared. The Labor Party has voted with the Liberal Party six times more than the Greens have. If they are scared they will lose votes in progressive seats like Grayndler the answer is not to make up lies about the Greens, it is for the Labor Party to work out what they stand for and start standing up to the Liberal Party.

    Unlike the other parties, our preferences are determined by the membership — not factional powerbrokers. Our members believe in welcoming people who seek asylum, strong action on global warming and tackling inequality. The Greens believe that people should vote 1 Greens and then preference how they want. People, not parties, should determine preferences. This has been the case since Bob Brown was leader.”

    To those who respond to this with …”they would say that wouldn’t they” … I can only remind you that Labor regularly swaps preferences with the Liberals when it suits them and (as I recall) election after election two of three Greens voters preference Labor 2.

  96. @mars.08

    Miriam English:

    Bighead1883, I’m puzzled. You ask, “Why does Labor want to deal with those who support the Tory” Yet Labor make deals with the LNP far more than the Greens do…

    Oh, wait a minute! That’s frightfully unfair… bringing facts into it…

  97. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Roswell,

    I’d like to know what I did wrong re: Bighead’s comments, to have some of my comment removed.

    This purification process is starting to look onerously like the elitist or bureaucratic processes that most of us detest

  98. Roswell

    Jennifer, it’s not so much what you said but the shit fight that would no doubt occur in response to it. I really don’t want to be up all night having to deal with it.

  99. Roswell

    If you have any complaints about me take them up with the owners.

  100. Miriam English

    Jennifer, I think Roswell is just trying to stop feuds before they start.
    I might even be partly responsible. I lost my temper a bit in the comments to another article and descended to… ummm… bitchiness. I was wrong to do so (the other person was more wrong 🙂 ). Nothing was solved and both I and my opponent came away looking like fools. I think Roswell is just trying to help by doing the job of aspirin: gently keeping inflammation down while facilitating normal activity.

  101. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Douglas Evans,

    the kind people of AIM Network have let us have our democratic say for 2 1/2 years while the LNP Degenerates have been in power but now that Labor might resume power, I’m detecting a change of mood of tolerance.

    I think the moderators need to be less scared of those who would incite confusion or contraversy rather than close down free speech amongst its loyal followers of whom I profess to be one.

    Thanks Miriam

  102. Backyard Bob

    I wonder if Voltaren make a product that can be applied to Internet blogs ….

  103. Miriam English

    Oh my god… has it been that long? I just scrolled down my email notifications and was astonished that it has. I must have joined after you Jennifer. I’ve been frequenting these halls for 2 years. Time flies.

  104. Roswell

    Jennifer, that’s easy to say if you’re not a moderator.

  105. randalstella

    Doug Evans, @ 9:46 pm 17/4/16
    You provide a quote from Greens HQ on a comparison between Labor and the Greens.
    I know you were just giving a brief response as a comment.
    Such material might make the basis of an interesting article.
    How about some analysis of claims by the Greens leadership?

    For example, bare numbers on the times the ALP supported the Coalition Government legislation versus the Greens support does not tell the story of what legislation when, and how – and by which amendments.
    There is a reason why a Party provides such bare comparisons. But it would be useless if you were simply to trot out the Party line.

    This does not mean that I expect you to denigrate Greens policy and legislative approach, or concede on it. But it is no interest to me if you show no critical capacity towards your Party.
    An analysis might make an even stronger case for the Greens – and it may not. But it is surely the facts that are important to us, not advertorial, or just partisan promotion.

    Expressing any reservations about Greens policy and stances would not make you disloyal. In fact it would show a distinct advantage over attitudes expressed hereabouts from professed Labor supporters.
    It is assumed by many that an uncritical approach to the Party they support is to the Party’s strength. For my interest in politics it is a weakness – morally and intellectually. And from there a danger to the nation.
    It is part of what turns off the kids.

    This is something of a social-political chat site, with an edge of an examining and debating of issues. I was hoping that you might be able to give that a bit of a boost, from a Greens perspective.

    You do understand what I mean? I am not picking on you. But I address this to you in the hope that you comprehend what others do not – that political support should not be like barracking for a footy team, supporting their players right or wrong. Because I disagreed with you over your comments on that crooked RC on Unions does not make me your enemy.

  106. Jennifer Meyer-Smith

    Thanks to the Moderators of AIM Network,

    for giving us all a voice to express our views. Sorry if I can be a handful at times.

    Thanks also to all the commenters, who take the time to express their views and make a real effort to engage in thoughtful and considerate ways with other commenters.

    This is a valuable opportunity for us all to find common ground in bringing Australia back away from the neo-liberalism we’ve all been suffering for 4 decades.

    2 July 2016 is just around the corner and we need to work together through sane debate, negotiation and planning to work out how we can bring down the LNP and all the institutions that support them insidiously through society. My worst nightmare is that if we are not vigilant, we might topple the fools in the LNP but that is only a bandaid fix if neo-liberalism values are allowed to live on in the new government.

    That is why I continually call for The Alliance because I see it as the answer to ridding us of: the scourge of the LNP; the talons of Big Biz in policy making; inequitable funding rorts to suspect programs while more representative programs get closed down; under-funding of public transport projects while more and more environment is gulped up by filthy road building; desecration of clean energy industries while filthy coal mining like Adani is given the green light; and the list goes on.

    We need to be vigilant and stand together to turn around all of these damaging developments.

  107. Michael Taylor

    Thank you, Jennifer. I/we truly appreciate that.

    In regards to the ALP/Greens bickering, I would really like to see these two parties work together a lot better than they’re currently doing. But the biggest problem is the fighting amongst their supporters. Maybe if we were able to set a better example then it might work itself upwards into the parties themselves.

  108. paul walter

    Sorry to butt in Michael, but isn’t it the upper echelons of these parties who create these frustrations in supporters?

  109. diannaart

    When economic conditions are difficult, people tend to be less generous and protect themselves; the question of solidarity doesn’t mean much to them at that time.

    Kofi Annan

  110. Michael Taylor

    I can’t disagree with that, Paul. I’m just hoping it’s the supporters who take the initiative to change it.

  111. Pingback: Can Shorten Win? | THE VIEW FROM MY GARDEN

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