90 comments

1. MarilynJuly 8, 2014 at 8:57 am

   Tony Abbott has Aspergers, no empathy poor social skills, an awkward gait and that habit of sticking his tongue out, his mashing of the language, all these indicate possible AS or perhaps he has frontal lobe damage from too many knocks to the head. When Hans Asperger wrote his paper on this he described it as psychopathic autism because they are high functioning but can be cruel and spiteful because they lack empathy.

2. Michael SchoenJuly 8, 2014 at 9:19 am

   No Aspie would behave like TA, it’s definitely the blows to the head

3. PeterFJuly 8, 2014 at 9:29 am

   Have you noticed that he often says: ‘ I would like to promise . . . . . ‘ rather than ‘I promise . . . .’. There IS a difference.

4. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 9:46 am

   Oh God, more amateur armchair psychology. Give me strength.

5. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 9:56 am

   In fact, those wishing to link Abbott to Asperger Syndrome should be ashamed of themselves, not the least because there’s no basis for doing so. Weaponising a disorder so as to find yet another way to criticise and minimise Tony Abbott has the effect of minimising those with that particular disorder. Abbott’s Thatcherite, deeply conservative Catholic socio-political worldview is more than sufficient to explain every aspect of his political identity.

6. keerti dalleyJuly 8, 2014 at 10:38 am

   Whist I would agree with you Dan, I, would hasten to add that Abbott’s Thatcherite, deeply conservative, Catholic world view could only arise with one condition, “he is screwed in the head”.

7. James ellisJuly 8, 2014 at 10:47 am

   What ever he has or is, he is certainly not suitable to be where he is.

8. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 10:47 am

   keerti,

   I prefer to think of it as “differently mentally organised”. That recognises that it’s a worldview that is both internally consistent and buggered. 😉

9. Blackbird Art&Design (@BlackbirdArtDes)July 8, 2014 at 10:52 am

   His views aren’t enough to explain the whole person, I know some lovely pro-Thatcherites. Something is missing from Abbott. There is a gaping hole where an otherwise functioning unit ought to be. It’s like he’s not really there, there is nothing to spiritually grab hold of. Maybe I’m wrong and rivers of soul-feeling flow beneath his surface but I think in his own mind he is a blank slate. I would very much like to see him sit the psychopath test, brain scan and all.

10. MarilynJuly 8, 2014 at 10:55 am

    Oh dear, that went well for my first post to this site, sorry Dan I am an amateur in that I am not formally trained, but have just spent the past 5yrs of my life learning about this condition first from a therapist and then through my own exploration, and yep some aspies do behave like Abbott, not that it matters much he has no empathy, is often in danger of a meltdown, but he has learned a bit of control although he nods his head with the effort.
    Sorry if I have offended anyone with this, but it seems obvious to me, As is a spectrum disorder so you get all kinds, and he will have no idea nor would he accept it, As has only been diagnosed since 1993. Having lived for 15yrs with an undiagnosed aspie I can tell you it’s no fun and they can be very spiteful indeed, even before Abbott was elected he looked and sounded like that to me, but in the end it doesn’t matter I knew he would be a bastard of a PM and I can bet he would be one to live with as well.

    Ah well perhaps my first and last post. 🙂

11. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 10:57 am

    James,

    What ever he has or is, he is certainly not suitable to be where he is.

    And yet, there he is. His incumbency may not make him “suitable”, from a “leftist” point of view (or perhaps even moderate liberal) but the fact of it makes him capable and that capacity is ultimately what makes him dangerous. Fortunately for us I think his capability is what will be his undoing in the sense that those things of which he is, in fact, capable, will be the very same things that bring him down.

    It’s just a question of how much shite we’ll have to endure before that happens, and that will depend somewhat on who wins the battle to lead the social narrative.

12. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 11:18 am

    Marilyn,

    My sympathies for your personal battle with an undiagnosed AS sufferer. You’re right, of course, that AS is a spectrum disorder and for that reason is actually not easy to diagnose. The problem is with the fact that Abbott does not display any more aspects of AS than loads of people who are not on that spectrum, would. It is also a fairly large logical failure to observe that some Aspies behave like Abbott. That may be so, but it does not follow that this makes Abbott an Aspie, nor does it begin to suggest it.

    The most significant issue with respect to the pretense of being able to diagnose Abbott with some malady or syndrome or disorder, aside from the fact that it requires specialised knowledge to do so, is that you can’t undertake such an analysis in the limited and distorting context of politics. By its very nature politics makes people look odd, even anti-social and even psychopathic. Pretty much everyone on Abbott’s front bench expresses characteristics of psychopathy and certain schizoid personality disorders, but that’s the politics, by and large. One cannot make anything remotely like a diagnosis from such a context.

    You should not feel that my reply to your post was unwelcoming. This issue of us pretending to be able to diagnose people just gets up my nose. Over the years I’ve seen lots of people harmed by that pretense. Please continue posting.

13. Michael SchoenJuly 8, 2014 at 11:22 am

    You haven’t offended me Marilyn, I’ve got 2 boys on the spectrum and in many ways your so right complimented by the blows to the head, Can’t wait for the knockout blow. Nice post 😉

14. Matthew OborneJuly 8, 2014 at 11:31 am

    We are in an awful situation where our government gives material aid to a war criminal government (Sri Lanka) they have taken that one step further now by handing people back to that war criminal government.

    If this government has a conscience towards these things it is silent.

    This is just one of the prices this government will pay to keep racist voters happy.

    The most frightening thing is this is what the Liberal party now consider politics.

    Handing people over to be imprisoned, tortured and murdered to get votes from racists.
    This is Australia.

15. OzFenricJuly 8, 2014 at 11:47 am

    I would have been satisfied that Abbott is merely an edge case of a hard-line conservative, unable to lend credence to alternative views because that would entail admitting error, but for a few specific concerns. Particularly his spectacular brain-freeze whilst being interviewed by Mark Riley. I don’t know wth that was but it doesn’t seem like normal operation to me. At the risk of making internet diagnoses, could have been a full-on panic attack I suppose…
    More than anything else, though, when I see Abbott these days I just see a doddery old man; your stereotypical lecherous uncle nobody wants to be cornered by at parties.

16. Florence nee FedupJuly 8, 2014 at 11:55 am

    I am not going to diagnose any compliant.

    I am happy to stay with the impression I have, that he is simply just a self-centred and nasty man, with no interest in the needs of others.

    The man is little more than an arrogant lying bully.

17. silkwormJuly 8, 2014 at 12:20 pm

    John Kenneth Galbraith said, “The modern conservative is engaged in one of man’s oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.” But this is exactly what the sociopath does. To a large degree, then, conservatives are sociopaths.

18. Möbius EckoJuly 8, 2014 at 12:52 pm

    “Particularly his spectacular brain-freeze whilst being interviewed by Mark Riley.”

    OzFenric that was by no means his first brain freeze of that length along with several shorter ones he’s displayed in the past.

    The one I remember most outside of the Mark Riley piece was Abbott as Health Minister on a Lateline interview with Kerry O’Brien that also had the Shadow Health Minister in it. Won’t bore you with the details as it would make a longish post, but Abbott was confronted on a blatant piece of projection and on denying it, O’Brien said he would replay the footage proving Abbott has been dissimulative. Abbott went into the brain freeze of similar length to the Riley piece, and would have continued staring slack jawed and head nodding if O’Brien hadn’t saved him by changing topic and asking Abbott another question entirely.

    I believe it’s linked to his fight or flight response. When he can do neither he brain freezes. Nowadays his minders ensure he can always run away, as we have seen so often in his pressers when the questioning gets too difficult for him even thought they are mostly simple ones.

19. abbienoiraudeJuly 8, 2014 at 1:01 pm

    Abbott does display sociopath tendencies. I just see him as a very very dull person. Dull in the true sense.
    He is a bear of little brain, a person without curiosity, innate intelligence, empathy nor a need to continue to educate himself about, well, anything. I have never seen him read except a couple of speeches where he wore glasses. He does not appear to read at any other time, he would rather be told or ‘instructed’ or guided by someone else ( I think). He does not seem comfortable with people in private or public ( cf with Rudd and Gillard, Plibersek and Albanese). When he is in a group setting (like having a cup of tea with aged people) he seems more aware of the camera than the person he is supposedly interacting with.

    He does not appear to like women. If women interview him, or ask him questions you can see his jaw set and his eyes harden.
    He is not comfortable with touching. He is gormless when it comes to babies, women, young people, old people. He only seems at all ‘comfortable’ with men of his own ‘kind’. He is not relaxed with our indigenous peoples, with our emigrant populations. He seems like a ‘duck out of water’.
    He appears only to be comfortable in interaction with people when he is on his feet, leaning forward and being rude, impolite, yelling and laughing in Parliament. That is the ONLY time I see he is his true ‘self’ publicly. The only other time he is ‘comfortable’ is on a bike. Bike riding means no communication, no talking, no looking in the eye of the other, no interaction. It is a lone activity.

    He does not appear to have any sense of loyalty. It seems to be missing from his character. No loyalty to Australia, Australians, those he is in charge of, those whose life he has control over, let alone his fellow party members.

    I see a man who is small minded, tight lipped, ungenerous, quick to anger, slow to control his bully instincts and has a sense of self that excludes all others ( even his wife…you can see he does not with ease, with love, with comfort hold her hand, gather her to his side).
    He has no true sense of humour, to the point of his being humourless in the extreme. No sense of the ridiculous nor an ounce of joyous abandonment when in a group or in public.

    His sense of entitlement pulls at his clothes.

    If this is the kind of human you want to ‘lead’ you then I would look to yourself to find out what is missing in your understanding of what makes a good and honourable person.

    (That expose was exhausting for me. It depletes me to examine him that closely. Even this is overwhelming to do by someone like me who feels every frisson of fizz that surrounds a person.)

20. NolaJuly 8, 2014 at 1:06 pm

    He’s got tirretz i think

21. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 1:55 pm

    OzFenric,

    Particularly his spectacular brain-freeze whilst being interviewed by Mark Riley.

    It was pretty spectacular, and attracted everything from bemusement to astonishment even from conservatives, but it could be interpreted in a number of ways and I don’t know which way is accurate. I suspect we’ll never know till he writes his memoirs and only then if he actually knows himself.

    I’m perhaps a little more sympathetic than some in my interpretation. It looked to me like he became momentarily paralysed by a sense of moral outrage that he knew he couldn’t express authentically and lacked the skill to express diplomatically. I’m sure he was utterly pissed off at having his sloppy remark being charcaterised the way it was. I think he had cause to feel that way.

    I think a lot of the character traits he exhibits can be chalked up to his upbringing, which of course is not his fault. We’re all the product of our causes. Abbott, to some extent, is the product of his parents’ aggrandised view of their son’s destiny. Pump that sort of thing into a young man in an atmosphere of privileged, class-think, classical Liberalism, combine it with a general lack of intellectual sophistication, which Abbott clearly has, a conservative tendency to think in black and white terms about most things, and it’s not hard to see why Abbott is who he is.

22. Michael TaylorJuly 8, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    I have AS. I am as far removed from Tony Abbott as could possibly be. People with AS have a heightened sense of justice. Abbott clearly doesn’t.

23. Kaye LeeJuly 8, 2014 at 2:15 pm

    Tony has always travelled in a pack. This was the case at university and appears to still be the case. I remember him and his pack of bovver boys strutting around causing havoc. He needs an audience, he needs back up. He does not do well when alone ever. His self-confessed reliance on a script points to how shallow he is. he doesn’t bother putting in the hard yards to understand policy – he’s just there to be, in his own words, a headkicker. When he doesn’t have an adversary to intimidate, whether verbally or physically, he doesn’t know what to do.

24. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 2:35 pm

    Fascinating little article, speaking about some equally fascinating social research:

    The age of entitlement: how wealth breeds narcissism

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/08/the-age-of-entitlement-how-wealth-breeds-narcissism

25. abbienoiraudeJuly 8, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    @Dan Rowden
    Of course it was his upbringing, however…a big HOWEVER;
    We are all products of our upbringing, but there comes a time, usually around our 20’s for most ( earlier for those aware) that you can not any longer be excused from who you are how you are, your character by saying ‘mummy and daddy made me do it’. There comes a maturing, a time when as a ‘grownup’ you say to yourself; It is now time for me to find out who I am and what my value systems are and to take ahold of them and live by them.

    For example;
    I was raised by racists…but there came a time ( I was round 19) when I thought, nope I have to find out more about this and why I am like this. It stopped with me. I was determined that our children would not think the same as how I was brought up, raised.
    I told them throughout their lives; find your own values and be true to them. As you grow you will experience things differently to me, that is when you need to examine your own self and find your own truth.

    If we do not have a ‘grownup’ (is THAT why he used that term pre election?) as PM then what does that say about us?

26. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 3:20 pm

    abbienoiraude,

    Maturation is a very personal thing. Certainly there are individual young people who “break free”, if you like, and more or less discover themselves. Some are aided in that process by parents who recognise the importance of that. They are the fortunate ones. But there are just as many that hardly ever achieve that freedom from their parental indoctrination. I think it’s more likely to be that way in conservative households, and more especially in those where the parents have the sort of aggrandised view of their children that seems to have been the case with Abbott.

    Of course, noting that our upbringing is not our fault does not mitigate the actions we take as adults. It’s merely an observation pointing to possible reasons for a person being who they are.

27. corvus boreusJuly 8, 2014 at 5:11 pm

    Dunno about psych evaluations, I am not qualified (and I fear Dan’s wrath).
    I can only comment on demonstrated behaviors.
    Tony is a consistent liar(climate change is crap, I’ve always believed in climate change).
    Tony doesn’t mind causing physical and emotional pain, indeed, he seems to relish brutality. His choice to use the “died of shame” phrase during Ms Gillard’s bereavement, following the dunny-grub’s comments, stands out as borderline sadistic.
    Tony also doesn’t get fair conduct in codes. He thinks king-hitting in scrums(illegal) is ‘best and fairest’ conduct. When photo-opping with teenage netballers, he remarks “nothing wrong with a bit of body contact”, ignoring that not only is contact a foul in their sport, but flirtatious contact with pubescent girls is inappropriate in an over 50 ‘statesman”.
    He may not have any diagnosed mental disorders, but he is a lying, hurtful, cheating creep, unfit to be an elected official, let alone a national leader.
    Ps, regarding the Mark Riley ‘interview’, a simple “I was talking to soldiers, they aren’t as precious as the press” would have explained his previous remarks better than the silent, malevolent reptile quake/nod that he chose to communicate with, that just looked disturbing and deranged.

    .

28. DanDarkJuly 8, 2014 at 5:39 pm

    This video sums up “Dumb Dumb Tony”, he is a lot of things, his intellect really shows here…. NOT

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBZwu5bAEdo

29. virtualnonsenseJuly 8, 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Please, please, please, can we just Stop The Tone! That’s all I ask. 🙁

30. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 5:57 pm

    corvus boreus,

    He may not have any diagnosed mental disorders, but he is a lying, hurtful, cheating creep, unfit to be an elected official, let alone a national leader.

    More likely to argue the colour of your hackle feathers than this point, which is surely indisputable.

31. corvus boreusJuly 8, 2014 at 6:03 pm

    My hackles are dyed green, but apparently the red shows through at their bases.

32. Claudia De MariaJuly 8, 2014 at 6:08 pm

    You are all wrong……..Jacky the Pup new senator said he is a pshycotic not a sociopath……

33. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 6:36 pm

    Claudia,

    She called him a “political psychopath”. No-one in psychology makes any real distinction between psychopathy and sociopathy.

34. Kaye MakovecJuly 8, 2014 at 8:06 pm

    Seems simple to me. There are no medical excuses or reasons. He has a classic case of the Hubris Syndrome. http://www.clinmed.rcpjournal.org/content/8/4/428.full.pdf

35. Kaye LeeJuly 8, 2014 at 8:09 pm

    I am not sure what to say after reading this

    http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/jacqui-lambie-how-i-found-clive-palmer-lost-40kg-and-now-could-derail-the-federal-budget/story-fni0cx12-1226978876840

36. Matters NotJuly 8, 2014 at 8:36 pm

    Well Kaye, here’s few thoughts after reading your link.

    I lost my faith before I walked out in front of a car. And I realised that’s the last thing you’ve got left. I sincerely believe God has given me a second chance at life … (later in reference to Abbott) … I don’t think God would have allowed that to happen

    Is religious! So from my point of view she is attracted to ‘magically interpretations’ of reality.

    wouldn’t take his crap. I didn’t punch him hard enough. I just threw a punch at him, only just connected with him

    I hope she gets on the piss with Pyne and makes a really strong connection. And does so multiple times. What a ‘cat fight’ that would be.

    Her political heroes are Margaret Thatcher and Labor’s Penny Wong

    She ‘ideologically’ flexible which is another way of saying she doesn’t understand there’s an ideological conflict underway here (always is).

    As I said elsewhere she ‘representative’. So sad.

37. Des Carne (@descarne)July 8, 2014 at 8:42 pm

    Sociopath is a deprecated term – it is no longer a psychological category. Abbott exhibits enough of the characteristic behaviors of a psychopath to be so designated, even if it sounds more pernicious than sociopath. Anyone can see that he has always had a narcissistic obsession with power at all costs, will say whatever he needs to say (is, lie and dissemble) to obtain power, ever since he entered politics -you may not find him charming precisely because his psychopathic behavior is so obvious and obnoxious, but enough found him charming enough to elect him national leader.

38. Kaye LeeJuly 8, 2014 at 9:34 pm

    According to Jacqui they are instructed to vote Liberal when in the military.

    http://media.smh.com.au/news/national-news/jacqui-lambie-my-politics-5335753.html

39. Matters NotJuly 8, 2014 at 9:57 pm

    Research suggests that the ‘services’ tend to vote conservative and it’s probably the case that the military ‘common sense’ is to do just that. However I would be very surprised if any ‘instruction’, of the written variety, could ever be found.

    That’s not to say that individual officers haven’t over stepped the line, and perhaps on numerous occasions, but not at senior levels.

    Jacqui will be a handful, in the political sense, and it may all end in tears. No doubt the ‘dirt diggers’ are hard at work and have a thick file(s). In past times, Abbott was a specialist in this area. Just ask Pauline Hanson.

40. Florence nee FedupJuly 8, 2014 at 10:25 pm

    It is amazing how many of Abbott’s rat pack, come from his university days, both at Sydney and Oxford. Others come from his school days. What is more amazing, it seems that the values and ideologies they formed then, are the same today, The decades of change in between have not changed them one iota, Still the values of the far right, of the fifties and sixties.

    Sorry, Abbott brings back memories of Frank Sinata, who unlike most, I could not stand.

41. Dan RowdenJuly 8, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    Vale a compassionate and charitable nation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4ZipKdI1sY … More reason to sob to that song.

42. Slytherin NagaJuly 9, 2014 at 6:19 am

    Tony Abbott has lied and cheated to get into the top job, Rossleigh. If you can’t see that then you are a stupid person, look around on YouTube and you’ll how stupid you’re beloved Tony oops Anthony “Tony” Abbott is and yes Anthony is his real name, not to mention he was born England and didn’t citizenship until he was 24 years of age. So what does that say about him and his family

43. corvus boreusJuly 9, 2014 at 6:43 am

    Slytherin,
    Reread Rossleigh’s article and check the nuances of his phraseology. You will find he is not a particularly enthusiastic supporter of Antony Abbott MP. He would no doubt agree with your summation of Tony’s ethics, he just disagrees with unsubstantiated claims of sociopathy.
    Also, you should refrain from juxtaposing the word ‘stupid’ with a incorrect use of ‘you’re’. It looks silly.
    You’re; you are, abbreviated.
    Your; possessed by you.
    Yore; of days gone by.
    Yaw; of non-equalibrious lateral balance.

44. AnomanderJuly 9, 2014 at 9:16 am

    Abbott ticks too many sociopathic boxes. Looks like a duck. Quacks like a duck….

    Tony knows his longevity at the top politics is limited and growing more limited by the day with his government has enacting such divisive and destructive policies.

    he cares nothing about the nation and the people for which he governs. His long-term plan is now to set himself up for the future by doing the bidding of those businesses and people who will look after him and ensure he has plenty of directorship opportunities when he is finally tossed-out on his ear in a few years time.

45. CMMCJuly 9, 2014 at 9:43 am

    It is the Party of Mad Uncles, as Turnbull quite aptly described one of the current LNP team.

46. Dan RowdenJuly 9, 2014 at 9:50 am

    Anomander,

    Abbott ticks too many sociopathic boxes. Looks like a duck. Quacks like a duck….

    That’s easy to say but I suspect a bit harder to actually defend. I’d be curious to see your defense of it.

47. Florence nee FedupJuly 9, 2014 at 11:34 am

    It appears the government is not holding those forty odd kids plus adults on the boat under migration. Have not said under what legalisation they are holding them on.

    Why did not Abbott know this morning, what is going on, on Christmas Island. If the reports are true, Mr Abbott, they are not threatening to take their own lives. They have attempted to. Mr Abbott, you as PM say you are not aware of the fact, if true, that ten women have tried. Yes, tried, not threatened.

48. Florence nee FedupJuly 9, 2014 at 11:53 am

    Well I must say. Rob told the farmers what he taught of them today. Blamed them for the fact, that Labor was unable to get the agreement with Japan through., Talk the farmers, if they wanted all or nothing, it is to bad they got nothing.

    All the goodies for Japan is immediate. All for Australia, mostly farmers, is well down the track. Years in facrt. Then only half of what Japan gets.

    Another annoying speech listened to. Senator Abets, blaming all the jobs moving offshore, to the carbon tax. Ignoring the fact, it has been happening for years, and is due to the high dollar, this country has had to endure. The figures he was using, blaming on the so called carbon tax have ]been well and truly discredited, but does not worry them, to continue using them.
    Well at least, the new senate is not allowing the government to over ride the senate. They are demanding that legalisation be debated. Government not doing to good in this regard. Are losing voter after vote.

49. Florence nee FedupJuly 9, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Yes, all over the ABC. What is wonderful, Alberici disgusting questions are not getting an hearing, only the answers. Enjoyed watching her this morning.

50. Florence nee FedupJuly 9, 2014 at 11:58 am

    Senate not allowing itself to be bullied by Abets and the government. Are debating fully the repeal bills on the so called carbon tax. Government not happy.

51. paul walterJuly 9, 2014 at 2:51 pm

    Nice to read it through and be able to breathe a sigh of releif, until that article I had beleived he was a sociopath also. Very much enjoyed Marilyn’s comments.

52. Möbius EckoJuly 9, 2014 at 3:09 pm

    Abbott’s citizenship being challenged across Facebook. Even friends I would never guess as being anti-Abbott have been questioning his citizenship.
53. Florence nee FedupJuly 9, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    If he has not formally renounced his British citizenship, he is in trouble.

54. RoswellJuly 9, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    I don’t think we’ve heard the last of this.

55. Kaye LeeJuly 9, 2014 at 4:58 pm

    Roswell, apparently people have been investigating this for a while. I would imagine that if the document existed it would have been produced ere this. The fact that it hasn’t, and the suggestion that the PM’s office is involved, make it an interesting question – one I actually wouldn’t give a shit about if I wasn’t fighting for my children’s lives. I will use a technicality if that is what it takes.

56. BacchusJuly 9, 2014 at 5:01 pm

    It would be a good, clean way for the Lieberals to get rid of Abbott when the time is right, should that be their wish – cleaner than ‘knifing’ him and doing exactly what they lambasted Labor for. If they planned it correctly, they could blame Labor for it as well! Only if you’re into conspiracy theories though 😉

57. MIssPamelaJuly 9, 2014 at 5:09 pm

    I have been doing some writing of my thesis (which is on Autism and which I seem to find many opportunities like this to avoid) and have just read the article and posts. I have given my opinion on Tony and Asperger’ s in the past so won’t reiterate. What I find particularly disturbing, Florence, is that the entire “Abbott Team” seem to not only have the same values and ideologies but also seem to share the same psychiatric disorder – what ever it is. I think we could debate this ad infinitum – there are a multitude of possibilities.

58. Dan RowdenJuly 10, 2014 at 10:46 am

    I’ve written to the PM’s office requesting clarification of the issue (and thus far received no reply), but if FOIs have already been undertaken and gleaned nothing, then it’s an interesting matter. But I return to the point of why has Labor, nor any journalist – in the MSM or new media – pursued the matter? Why have Labor not made a political issue of it if indeed Abbott cannot demonstrate that the action was taken? It may come across as a cheap smear but that case is harder to make regarding matters Constitutional.

    My other problem with it is this: why the hell do we want to get rid of Abbott when he is arguably our best chance of getting rid of this Government come the next election? In our fanatical zeal to see the back of the man, have we perhaps gone a little bit mad?

59. Florence nee FedupJuly 10, 2014 at 11:07 am

    No AS, just a spoilt brat of a kid, that has never grown up.

60. Florence nee FedupJuly 10, 2014 at 11:49 am

    The senate I must say, is a place of methodical, steady clear……….action. Guillotine and gag leading to filibuster by government members. Third edition of amendment put up. Chaotic and incompetent is the words that come to my mind. Cormann returning to his filibuster. Sounds desperate Yes, a government, not in control.

61. AbigailJuly 13, 2014 at 11:47 pm

    Let’s take a peek at what Wikipedia has to say (in part) about antisocial behaviour, shall we?

    “…The first version of the DSM in 1952 listed sociopathic personality disturbance. Individuals to be placed in this category were said to be “…ill primarily in terms of society and of conformity with the prevailing milieu, and not only in terms of personal discomfort and relations with other individuals”.

    There were four subtypes, referred to as “reactions”; antisocial, dyssocial, sexual and addiction. The antisocial reaction was said to include people who were “always in trouble” and not learning from it, maintaining “no loyalties”, frequently callous and lacking responsibility, with an ability to “rationalize” their behavior. …” (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder)

    Interesting.

    Always in trouble and not learning from it? Check.
    Maintaining no loyalties? Check
    Frequently callous? Check
    Lacking responsibility? Check
    Ability to rationalize his behaviour? Check.

62. Rex Alfie LeeJuly 14, 2014 at 11:57 am

    Abbott is a sociopath & I’ve been saying it on Facebook for over a year. I work with these people & he lies constantly, shows no remorse whatsoever, probably shunted something to become the Rhodes Scholar crap & is a bully. It’s all about Tone & he’s just scum…

63. PetaCredlinsPetTalkbackMonkeyJuly 14, 2014 at 9:19 pm

    I was told a story by ex staff at Riverview where Tony attended wherein the boys for the first rowing eight are traditionally selected by height and build in Y7. When Tony being relatively short (his father is tiny) was passed over for the squad Tony was ready at the master’s door the next morning insisting that he should be eligible for the squad. When he was refused he turned up the next day with a note from his father pleading his inclusion. Apparently this went on for weeks until the sportsmaster finally relented and allowed Tony to train with the second eight. Tony through his school years never made the first eight who were narrowly beaten in his final year head of the river when Tony did lead the seconds to victory. Abbott’s response was apparently that if he had have been in the firsts they would have won.

    Abbott was clearly encouraged by his family to believe that normal codes and rules didn’t necessarily apply to him and that he was some sort of exception, a belief I think he will never escape as without any clearly exceptional talents he has relied on the manipulation of influence and patronage to gain clearly significant advantages and advancement through the conservative institutions of the private school system, the catholic church and Liberal Party. Abbott’s repayment of this advancement was obviously slavish total obedience to these institutions most conservative and militant ideologies.

    Confronted at last with a final utter abject and defining failure and rejection I fear Abbott is a very dangerous character indeed.

64. True AutisticAugust 24, 2014 at 11:27 am

    Wow, a self diagnosed Aspie has said that their own research has shown that Tony Abbot has Asperger’s … as someone who IS diagnosed and has spent a large amount of time amongst other autistic people, including self diagnosed I can tell you I have NEVER come across any aspie that acts like TA. The very fact that you can’t tell the difference between autism and sociopaths shows that you don’t actually understand autism.

    Research has actually shown that AS people experience equal and sometimes more empathy than the average person, but they fail terribly at expressing that empathy, speaking for myself I can say this is true, speaking for my family I can say it’s true. [http://seventhvoice.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/new-study-finds-that-individuals-with-aspergers-syndrome-dont-lack-empathy-in-fact-if-anything-they-empathize-too-much/]

    Sociopaths are manipulators, though I have met a few manipulators in the AS community they often display many other characteristics that either suggests a mis-diagnoses or other disorders that conflict (and autism is not a disorder, it’s the difficulties that tend to accompany it that are such as anxiety, or depression) … the vast majority of spectrumites are followers by nature, perhaps reluctant leaders. Again I’ve come across a few leaders by nature, but they are rare. Most hold no desire for dominance or rule or greed which are all sociopathic qualities.

    Sociopaths do not experience anxiety, (or rarely do) this is the opposite of autism. Sociopaths are chronic liars, this is also the opposite of autism. They are fake to the very core, whereas autism people can’t (or struggle) to hide their real nature, making them stand out. Sociopaths lack guilt, whereas when ASD person generally does something wrong they are riddled with it: also opposite. Most autistic people are not impulsive; they are highly regular, they plan everything in advanced. I like to think I’m impulsive but they only impulsive thing I do is suddenly decided to go to the cinemas on a whim, outside that panic insures. Sociopaths are highly impulsive and run for cheap thrills. Also opposite. Sociopaths are also highly likely to inflict physical harm onto others and animals as children for the enjoyment of it, ASD does not. Both can be described as destructive when younger, but the motives are completely different.

    The most common employment areas for sociopaths are politics and law: autism is engineering and sciences.

    Also there is a misconception that autistic people are more likely to be serial killers/mass murders. Every time someone goes on a killing spree the “Asperger’s” word is thrown around and the hate begins again. But studies have shown that most murders diagnosed or categorised with autism are in fact not, and that when the percentages of mass murders with genuine autistic characteristics are considered they represent a lower than normal percentage for their numbers in society. Showing that even amongst specialist people are causally saying they are something when they are not.

    Down to the bare basics: you can’t get more opposite of each other than autism and sociopaths. If you can’t help linking them together you are either confusing the facts, missing the true facts, and/or miss understanding your own nature. I suggest you go out and do “real research” and stop being an internet information warrior.

65. niallbradley11October 15, 2014 at 5:36 am

    Abbott’s blatantly a psychopath. Interesting that an ‘independent’ media site is rushing to his defence. The author’s glib responses to selective characteristics of psychopaths are telling. The main thing people need to keep in mind is that psychopaths have no conscience. http://www.ponerology.com/

66. Florence nee FedupOctober 15, 2014 at 4:15 pm

    Mostly those who suffer from autism are brutally honest in m experience.

67. Luigi MartinMarch 18, 2015 at 11:40 am

    He’s a Psychopath.

68. DavidMarch 27, 2015 at 7:36 pm

    It’s easy being a critic isn’t it. On all these forums it’s just so easy to post bile, hatred and negativity and doing it completely anonymously.
    Imagine how you’d go if you had a stab at running the country and developing policy and you had a pack of people running around trying to bring you down from day one and defaming you every single day.

    Some of the worst policy comes from well-meaning people who have no idea of the consequences of their ‘big ideas’ either through ignorance or because it’s just damn hard to predict what is the best of a series of difficult or poor choices (e.g., do we fight against ISIS or do we ignore what is a horrid cancer?). Here’s a thought why don;t you all start writing down your ideas for a better Australia and identify some better leaders and try to make Australia better. All I hear is people tearing the place and each other down, it’s pathetic and counter-productive.

    Hey Luigi, you know Mr Abbott? Have you been at his surf club or volunteer fire fighting, do you do any community work yourself or do you just sit on your rock making judgements?

    Hey Niall, have you ever experienced a psychopath first hand, methinks you’re not such a nice person for labelling our PM a psychopath. I do not agree with his policies in most cases and I don’t think biting into a raw onion or bringing back knighthoods are fairly smart but a psychopath this does not make.

69. silkwormMarch 28, 2015 at 1:48 am

    One of my brothers is a psychopath – he has no conscience – and he adores Tony Abbott, because he sees in him a man like himself. Yes, Tony Abbott IS a psychopath, and it’s not just the onion-eating. It’s everything else. Abbott’s misogyny alone makes him a psychopath. Abbott’s disdain for traditional owners makes him a racist, and therefore a psychopath. Abbott’s onion-eating is something that on ly someone who has practised this can do. It’s like he has practised this for a challenge at the back of the football sheds. It’s a proof to everyone around him that he has no feelings, and that in itself is a sign that he is a psychopath.

70. Florence nee FedupMarch 28, 2015 at 3:16 am

    silkworm, one could say we are kind when we say he is a psychopath. One cannot help that. I suspect that he is just a nasty, immature and selfish man. One who has not moved on from his teen years,

    We heard Fraser’s granddaughter describe her grand dad as a man, who kept on evolving all his life. I suspect Abbott sees himself as being in Frasers liege. Nixon describe Fraser and Whitlam as tough men. who played it hard. I think some of Nixon’s eulogy was aimed at Abbott. He rushed into that church, why I would not know. Would have love to see his face when he came out.

    No, I am afraid Abbott is, is nothing more than a self centred incompetent fool and bully.

71. DavidMarch 28, 2015 at 9:13 pm

    You;ve played the race card, the misogyny card and the psychopath card. I think you;re also calling half the electorate of this country idiots for not spotting what you in all your infinite wisdom have spotted. Your rantings might actually carry more weight if you tried to explain exactly how Mr Abbott’s behaviour deserves these three tags? I thick the only thing on display here is your intense hatred.

    Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.

    Abbott’s disdain for traditional owners? Disdain: the feeling that someone or something is unworthy of one’s consideration or respect. Mr Abbott’s words ‘lifestyle choice’ are extremely unfortunate, I think he’d agree, however, it is a legitimate question as to whether the tax-payer should fund tiny remote communities that require funding, in the same way it is a legitimate question to ask if certain people who make appalling lifestyle choices (e.g.: lifetime smoking) should have taxpayer funded healthcare, but by all means play the race card when you disagree with a policy or a poor choice of words or if you detect disdain.

    As for your wonderful and insightful analysis of the onion eating incident, your standard of proof for your analysis would not stack up anywhere, you’ve just shown yourself for who you are, blinkered by your hatred.

    I suggest you try to examine your own biases (we all have them)) and try to understand your own anger, is it because no-one listens to you, is it that your own voice is not terribly erudite, nay confused. It’s easy to have an opinion, much harder to overcome your own biases and see things as far more nuanced and to try and contribute in a positive way to discourse.

    I agree Abbott can be lacking in empathy at times or seem stiff and I do think his conservative views are just that conservative. Save the R, M and other nasty words for the people that deserve those monikers.

72. MarkMarch 28, 2015 at 10:01 pm

    ‘Misogyny is the hatred or dislike of women or girls. Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination, denigration of women, violence against women, and sexual objectification of women.’

    Misogyny – Thy name is Islam, not Abbott. The amount of hatred and hate speech on this site directed at one man is disgraceful and hypocritical coming from people who claim to be motivated by compassion.

73. Kaye LeeMarch 28, 2015 at 10:43 pm

    Misogyny can be manifested in numerous ways, including sexual discrimination (one female minister in original cabinet), denigration of women (vitriolic attack against Gillian Triggs), violence against women (punching the wall next to Barbara Ramjan’s head), and sexual objectification of women (when asked about Fiona Scott’s qualifications for the job he said she had sex appeal).

    •“While I think men and women are equal, they are also different and I think it’s inevitable and I don’t think it’s a bad thing at all that we always have, say, more women doing things like physiotherapy and an enormous number of women simply doing housework.” 2010

    •“The problem with the Australian practice of abortion is that an objectively grave matter has been reduced to a question of the mother’s convenience.” March 17th 2004

    ‘Bad bosses, like bad fathers and husbands, should be tolerated because they do more good than harm’

    When president of the SRC in 1979, Tony described university subjects on feminism and the political exploitation of women as “trivial extravagance” and “so much nonsense”.

74. Matters NotMarch 28, 2015 at 11:43 pm

    It would seem that David and Mark do a very nice ‘line’ on irony.

    So much so, I am tempted to write that while every village has one, and every circus needs one, a double act at the same time is somewhat egregious.

    But I will resist that temptation. Possibly?

75. MarkMarch 28, 2015 at 11:57 pm

    Can misandry be manifested in various ways? What are your thoughts?
    The Liberals tend to appoint people on merit, not on an artificial and flawed quota system.
    Vitriolic attack on Triggs? Hardly. More like an honest expose of an embedded Labor apparatchik.
    Punched a wall next to a woman’s head. Alleged, never proved.
    Said a woman had sex appeal. What a crime. Baited the left and the feminists and they took it, hook, line and sinker.
    “While I think men and women are equal,….”. He stated a fact, but then the facts don’t sit well with ‘progressives’.
    Abortion – he expressed an opinion. How often are the fathers consulted when a woman is considering killing his baby?
    Emily’s List policy on full term abortions?
    Should we not tolerate bad mothers and wives?
    “university subjects on feminism and the political exploitation of women as “trivial extravagance” and “so much nonsense”.
    An opinion that many people including a lot of women who don’t see themselves as natural born victims would agree with.

76. MarkMarch 29, 2015 at 12:05 am

    Matters Not. Hell you got that right. Your pithy insult matters not. Try harder. Decorating it with what you think is erudition doesn’t cut it.

77. RoswellMarch 29, 2015 at 12:07 am

    I quite like Matters Not’s wit.

78. silkwormMarch 29, 2015 at 12:14 am

    Mark is a Cathoilic Liberal-voting sicko.

79. MarkMarch 29, 2015 at 12:21 am

    You call that wit? So do I, with a capital F.

    Silkworm, please define Cathoilic. You say one of your brothers is a psychopath. Does it run in the family?

80. Matters NotMarch 29, 2015 at 12:23 am

    Keep it up Mark. Not that I think you need a ‘hand’ from anyone else. You seems well practised or should that be well practiced?

    No doubt you will have a ‘good night’.

    All by yourself, in all senses of the term.

81. MarkMarch 29, 2015 at 12:31 am

    Matters Not, I said try harder. Have you been drinking? I thought contributors to this site prided themselves on their intellect.

82. Kaye LeeMarch 29, 2015 at 8:41 am

    “Can misandry be manifested in various ways? What are your thoughts?”

    Yes – the Wikipedia definition given by David is the same. What is your point?

    “The Liberals tend to appoint people on merit, not on an artificial and flawed quota system.”

    That’s odd as both the corporate world and the government have stated policies to improve gender balance. “The Australian Government is committed to achieving a target of at least 40 per cent women and 40 per cent men on Australian Government boards by 2015.”

    “More like an honest expose of an embedded Labor apparatchik.”

    So what about the wrongful dismissal of the Save the Children staff, the UN report, the torture report, and the Moss Review, all of which backed up the report from the HRC. Women and children are being raped while Morrison, Abbott and Brandis attack the messengers.

    “Alleged, never proved.”

    There are stat decs from witnesses and the newspaper had to pay a settlement to Ms Ramjan for calling her a liar. I was at Sydney Uni at the time and knew Tony Abbott. He wandered around with his band of bovver boys hurling abuse at gays and feminists. He has always had an inflated opinion of his own ability.

    “Said a woman had sex appeal. What a crime.”

    Actually sexual harassment in the workplace is against the law. That is no way to speak about your colleagues and it was given as an example of the objectification of women. Would he say the same thing about Mike Baird?

    I will not dignify your comments on housework and abortion with an answer but I will say that the fear of an organisation formed to support progressive women candidates seeking election to political office is telling.

    “Should we not tolerate bad mothers and wives?”

    Perhaps you are unaware of the domestic violence epidemic in this country?

    As far as “natural born victims” is concerned, the majority of women I know could chew you up and spit you out in a heartbeat sunshine. You seem very threatened by any suggestion of women being powerful or fighting for women’s rights. You think feminism equates to misandry. Actually, I take that back. You don’t think at all. You regurgitate the same lines spewed forth by people like Larry Pickering in a list that is so predictable it resembles the Liberal Party talking points mantra. More fool me for engaging with you.

83. MarkMarch 29, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    Dear KL,

    ‘Yes – the Wikipedia definition given by David is the same. What is your point?’

    My point is that the public discourse is unbalanced. The word misandry is not given an equal amount of public debate as misogyny, virtually zero public money is spent on addressing the problem, a problem which is just as destructive as male aggression. Domestic Violence has become synonymous with male aggression whereas female aggression and perfidy is rarely if ever spoken about, but is swept under the carpet. This is incongruous in a society that promotes equality.

    ‘That’s odd as both the corporate world and the government have stated policies to improve gender balance.’

    The whole political paradigm has shifted to the left over the last three or four decades. Nevertheless this fact does not negate the ‘merit superior to quota’ argument.

    ‘So what about the wrongful dismissal of the Save the Children staff, the UN report, the torture report, and the Moss Review, all of which backed up the report from the HRC. Women and children are being raped while Morrison, Abbott and Brandis attack the messengers.’

    “Mr Morrison was asked on Sunday whether he conceded he had got his comments wrong.
    He said the allegations had been presented to him in a formal report at the time and he referred them to the Moss review to be investigated along with other sexual assault allegations.
    “It was my action, on seeing all of those allegations, not to draw any conclusions on them at all, as I said at the time, and to refer them off to an independent review,” Mr Morrison said.
    “So I’m pleased the independent review has been taken that the Government has received it and the Government has responded to all of the recommendations in a positive way.”
    When specifically asked if he would apologise to Save the Children, he replied “I made no allegations, I referred allegations for a proper inquiry”. ”

    Scott Morrison initiated the inquiry and no doubt there will be investigations and if any allegations of criminality against guards can be proved they will be dealt with under the law, as they should be.

    Moss detailed allegations that at least three women had been raped inside the centre. Who were the perps and should they be brought to Australia to be tried?

    You see, Labor, the Greens and the left in general would love to break Morrison’s successful border protection policy and they will use any means to achieve this. After all they stated boldly before the last election that an Abbott government couldn’t stop the boats. But they did. Accept it and move on. None of this would’ve happened if Rudd had not have thrown open the borders. Another monumental mess of astronomical proportions created by Labor.

    ‘There are stat decs from witnesses and the newspaper had to pay a settlement to Ms Ramjan for calling her a liar.’

    Stat decs are evidence to be weighed, not proof. The Australian opted to apologise and to pay a settlement to Ramjan for an article it published written by Michael Kroger in which he called Ramjan a serial liar. Kroger stands by what he said and has not apologised.

    ‘Actually sexual harassment in the workplace is against the law.’

    As I said, Tony Abbott baited the usual suspects, and in their haste to vilify, they took it hook, line and sinker. You failed to address that point. Would he say the same about Mike Baird? I guess he could, objectively, and no doubt a lot of women would agree with him.

    ‘I will not dignify your comments on housework and abortion with an answer but I will say that the fear of an organisation formed to support progressive women candidates seeking election to political office is telling.’

    This is the Gillard response akin to ‘I find your views abhorrent, etc, etc’, a cop out. You say that I have a fear of progressive women candidates. I fear the damage they can inflict on society as a collective with a divisive agenda. There are many women in public and private life whom I admire and respect, based on their strength of character and achievements. Sadly I don’t see such women in groups such as Emily’s List. What are your views on full term abortion and the right of the father to have a say on what happens to his child?

    ‘As far as “natural born victims” victims is concerned, the majority of women I know could chew you up and spit you out in a heartbeat sunshine.’

    Ha, the Parthian Shot, as inevitable as the sunrise. You don’t know me but I would probably hold the door open for the majority of women you know, not because they are women but because I’m a gentleman.

    ‘You seem very threatened by any suggestion of women being powerful or fighting for women’s rights.

    I may seem threatened to you but I don’t feel threatened. A case of wishful thinking on your part I think. It affirms your self comforting belief that any man who questions the modern feminist agenda is an inadequate, woman hating troglodyte. As for Pickering’s site. It hasn’t been stopped yet. Perhaps a government of progressive women one day can implement a Tanya Cohen Policy. Pickering is open to all comers and amongst the motley crew there there are some wise and erudite contributors who would put some of the posters here to shame.

    As a final note, last night’s election result in NSW shows there is still hope for this country.

84. Kaye LeeMarch 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm

    “The word misandry is not given an equal amount of public debate as misogyny”

    Possibly because we live in a patriarchal society?

    “Domestic Violence has become synonymous with male aggression whereas female aggression and perfidy is rarely if ever spoken about, but is swept under the carpet. This is incongruous in a society that promotes equality.”

    The vast majority of dangerous, abusive and violent behaviour that occurs in the privacy of people’s homes is committed by men against women. The majority of violence against men is committed by other men. Women who are violent towards men should also be subject to the law but to speak of equality in this context is ludicrous.

    As for Scott Morrison, he said “They are employed to do a job, not to be political activists. Making false claims, and worse allegedly coaching self-harm and using children in protests is unacceptable, whatever their political views or agendas,” and then sacked the workers. If Hockey thinks he is entitled to $1 million damages for the paper correctly claiming that access to the treasurer would be provided in return for thousands of dollars membership of his North Sydney Forum then I would suggest his words and actions towards these people far more damaging and there has been no evidence found to substantiate Morrison’s claims. As it turns out he was relying on a report by the very security firm whose employees are accused of sexual abuse and harassment. And btw, the boats haven’t stopped as revealed in Senate hearings.

    “It affirms your self comforting belief that any man who questions the modern feminist agenda is an inadequate, woman hating troglodyte.”

    The feminist agenda is to advocate social, political, legal, and economic rights for women. Why would anyone question that? And do not presume to tell me what I believe. I have great respect for the men in my life, not because they are men, and certainly not because of anything to do with doors, but because they are decent caring human beings.

85. silkwormMarch 29, 2015 at 1:20 pm

    There are so many things wrong with Mark’s post, but I’ll focus on just this one bit:

    “What are your views on full term abortion and the right of the father to have a say on what happens to his child?”

    No man has the right to impose his will on a woman, especially on her pregnant body. A woman’s body is sovereign. Mark’s views on abortion identify him as a retrograde Catholic.

    Mark, you’ll never get a woman if you treat them with such disrespect — unless, of course, they are of the religious submissive type. I think that’s how Mark prefers his women.

86. MarkMarch 29, 2015 at 1:55 pm

    Silky,
    a: No, I’m not Catholic. You’re wrong.
    b: You missed the point. Do you feel comfortable living in a society that permits a fully formed baby to be murdered?
    ‘A woman’s body is sovereign.’ Is a baby’s body not sovereign?
    c: I never treat women with disrespect. By your comment you assume I can’t ‘get a woman’. Wrong again. The religious submissive type? No, I’m not Moslem either.

87. silkwormMarch 29, 2015 at 3:25 pm

    The misogynistic anti-abortion stance is a staple of the Catholic Church, and persists even under this “modern” pope. To a lesser extent it is shared by the Baptists, and other right-wing Christian denominations. It is also a staple of US Tea Party politics.

88. Kaye LeeMarch 29, 2015 at 4:24 pm

    Could I suggest that with the overpopulation problems facing us in the near future, we should be seriously looking into contraception, abortion, and euthanasia.

    As for late term abortion, the majority of Australians approve under certain circumstances. Abortions after 20 weeks account for less than 1 per cent of all abortions in Australia. Public hospitals almost exclusively carry out late term abortions for reasons of foetal abnormality. The one private clinic in Victoria that carries out late term abortions for psychosocial reasons will do so up to 24 weeks. So if a woman in crisis cannot afford private health care or cannot access that particular clinic or if that clinic is at capacity or if she is over 24 weeks pregnant – she will be forced to give birth regardless of her circumstances. I agree if there is an ongoing relationship with the father he should be consulted but the decision cannot be his because he is not the one who is putting his health at risk, his career on hold, and facing the emotional and physical rollercoaster of childbirth.

89. Matters NotMarch 29, 2015 at 11:22 pm

    Mark @ 1:55 pm said:

    I’m not Moslem either

    Obviously not. As will become obvious, I hope.

    The choice of ‘Moslem’ rather than ‘Muslim’ reveals (perhaps) more than you realise.

    There are at least two possibilities worthy of consideration re you choice of ‘label’.

    First, you might be some ‘silly old bugger’ (I can relate to that) who has always used the ‘Moslem’ descriptor when identifying the followers of Islam, unaware of the implications of using that word. Therefore, your use of ‘Moslem’, rather than ‘Muslim’, can best be explained by ‘ignorance’, implying that you have failed to keep up with modern scholarship.

    Second, there is the possibility that you know that the word ‘Muslim’ in Arabic means ‘one who gives himself to God’ while the word ‘Moslem’ (in contrast) in Arabic means ‘one who is evil and unjust’ when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, ‘Mozlem’ with a z.

    And therefore you deliberately choose to be offensive.

    If it’s the second option, then you will be in the company of Rupert Murdoch.

    For further insights may I suggest that you Google “Muslim versus Moslem”.

    But only if you haven’t been drinking.

90. MarkMarch 30, 2015 at 11:14 pm

    It matters not. I am aware of the Moslem/Muslim distinction on both points. I choose to use the term Moslem for both the reasons you suggested. I am a conservative and chose to use the older, correct English form, as does the American Moslem Society. I am also aware of the ‘one who is evil and unjust’ meaning. I use it because Mohammed was evil and unjust. If you don’t believe me, have a look at the Sunna, the sayings of Mohammed and the Hadiths, biographies of Mohammed written by his contemporaries. Read them and tell me he was not evil and unjust. ISIS and others are emulating Mohammed which I find offensive. On the question of ignorance – I would hazard a guess that I am one of the most Islamically aware posters on this site. I don’t need Google to educate me on such basics. I haven’t been drinking today but I do enjoy red wine.