Merry Christmas, Gina and Rupert

December 18, 2014
Written by: Kaye Lee
172 Replies

If you go to Tony Abbott’s Facebook page, at time of writing, you will find six threads about the Martin Place siege and one about the slaughter of innocent children in Pakistan. Four days after its release, you will not find any comment about Hockey’s MYEFO. That in itself should be cause for concern.

Tony Abbott has admitted he has little interest in the “dismal science” of economics and it appears he is hoping that applies to the rest of us. He is sticking to his forte – death cults and shirt-fronting.

Despite telling us all to carry on our lives as normal, he seems determined to class the acts of one deranged individual as a terrorist attack on home soil.

When Australians responded by showing solidarity with the Muslim community through the “I’ll ride with you” campaign, the odious Miranda Devine found a new target.

“Thus it was that on Monday, while real people were suffering at the hands of an Islamic State-inspired terrorist in Martin Place, hashtag activists sprang to the defence of theoretical victims of an Islamophobia that wasn’t occurring.

The meaningless, narcissistic, one-sided nature of this “near silent encounter” perfectly symbolises the leftist approach to Islamist terrorism.

Denial, deflection, projection. They see themselves as morally superior to the rest of Australia, which they imagine as a sea of ignorant rednecks. In their eyes the threat is not terrorism but Islamophobia.”

This view was endorsed by LNP member for Dawson, George Christensen who tweeted:

“#illridewithyou is a typical pathetic left wing black arm band brigade campaign, casting Aussies as racists who will endanger Muslims.”

The colourful characters who frequent Andrew Bolt‘s blog joined in with a barrage of hate.

Whilst Abbott, Devine, Bolt and Christensen continue to pander to the minority of xenophobic racist rednecks, others have been commenting on the policy direction of this government and none of it is good.

Firstly, Joe Hockey has cost us $28.6 billion in foregone revenue over the forward estimates through his own decisions.

Carbon Tax $12.8 billion

MRRT $3.4 billion

FBT on cars $1.8 billion

Tax on super earnings $313 million

Work-related self-education $266.7 million

Closing corporate tax avoidance $775 million

RBA $8.8 billion (classed as foregone dividends)

Add to that his spending on Direct Action, the “war on terror” at home and abroad, and the extra spending on Operation Sovereign Borders and PPL and we would go close to wiping out his deficit of over $40 billion.

So when you hear the girlinator Cormann talking about Layboor’s debt and deficit disaster, understand you are being sold snake oil by a con man.

Speaking of con men, the G20 leaders must be wondering about our commitment to join the war on corporate tax avoidance which has been shown to be yet another example of Joe “over my dead body” Hockey’s ‘tell em what they wanna hear’.

The head of the Australian Tax Office, Chris Jordan, has described a tax lurk for multinational companies that is being retained by the Abbott government as having been “abused” by foreign corporations at a cost of “hundreds of millions of dollars” a year to the Commonwealth but Hockey, following consultation with the big four accountancy firms and the Corporate Tax Association, which represents the biggest listed companies, decided not to tinker with section 25-90 of the act. And they had the hide to criticise Gillard and Swan for caving in on the mining tax though that was one time I found myself in agreement.

And they will have more pressure coming as the world insists that we take action on climate change.

During an appearance before a British parliamentary committee meeting held early Wednesday morning Australian time, British Prime Minister David Cameron was asked by an MP whether there was hope Australia would do more because “the new Australian government is in denial” on the issue.

Mr Cameron did not disagree and told the hearing there was hope Australia would step up its efforts.

“Australia will respond to international pressure and do more on climate change because it will not want to be seen as the ‘back marker’.”

The new revised GP co-payment has also been blasted.

The Australian Medical Association (AMA) has expressed its formal opposition to the Federal Government’s new co-payment model, labelling it a “wrecking ball”.

“That this should be instituted and ready to go by January 19 is, I think, absurd,” Associate Professor Owler said. “Particularly when there has been absolutely no consultation on this issue.”

The OECD was also not impressed with Hockeynomics slamming his budget measures and stating that ‘close monitoring’ was required mentioning everything from changes to Newstart and pensions through to Direct Action, deregulation of uni fees, and choice of infrastructure spending. They were particularly critical of superannuation tax concessions. The overall implication was “you haven’t thought these measures through.”

And as Abbott has his photo taken in front of lots of Christmas trees, presents are being delivered around the country.

Up to 100 ABC journalists have been told they will become redundant and ADF personnel will face rent increases as well as other charges for live in accommodation and meals.

Australia has transformed into the global Scrooge just in time for Christmas, with spending on foreign aid set to plunge compared to other wealthy industrial countries.

An analysis of Treasurer Joe Hockey’s $3.7 billion cut to the aid budget announced on Monday – on top of the $7.6 billion cut in May – reveals that Australia’s generosity towards the world’s poor will fall to an all-time low.

Australia will soon devote a paltry 22¢ cents in every $100 of national income to foreign aid – less than half the amount spent by the Coalition government more than 40 years ago.

This is the news Tony Abbott and his band of elves don’t want you to discuss as they take from the poorest in the world to give generously to wealthy corporations and mining companies. Gina and Rupert should be well pleased.

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LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:04 am

It’s too bad that idiots like Christensen and Devine don’t understand irony. The entire LNP is making victims out of the entire nation at the hands of terrorism when quite clearly we are not victims.

There is also the failure to recognise that moderate Muslims were already being targeted by Australian bigots before the siege.

Comments on Christensen’s Farcebook page pointing out his failure to condemn all Christians for the horrific actions of one or a few are being deleted. Surprise, surprise!

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:17 am

Frank Drenth, executive director of the Corporate Tax Association, said the anti-avoidance provision and Labor’s pledge to abolish section 25-90 was “policy overreach”.

Robert Jeremenko, a senior tax counsel at the Tax Institute, said it found the proposed changes would “significantly increase complexity and compliance costs” for businesses.

Apparently the “complexity and compliance costs” for doctors to implement their own pay cut in a month’s time is irrelevant as are the “complexity and compliance costs” for Direct Action and PPL.

KerriDecember 18, 2014 at 11:27 am

While Hockey continues to simplistically liken the nations finances to the management of a household budget, has he considered that cutting off your guaranteed income before rolling out expenditures is not good housekeeping? His recent declaration to “spend,spend,spend” will see very few whose jobs are at risk, courtesy of his wisdom, make the same mistakes with their household income that he is making with the nations budget.
Slow Joe is way out of his depth any we should be scared. Very scared.
Unless, of course, your surname is Rinehart, Forrest or Murdoch!
Another good article Kaye Lee!

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:40 am

Wonder why I get the feeling that pressure is being put on Abbott to walk. seems to have lost all his bested friends. No one smiles near him. Most look relieved when they walk away. Maybe we will manage to have a good Christmas.

June M Bullivant OAMDecember 18, 2014 at 11:42 am

Hockey has an idea to kill the little bloke, Kill the Goose that lays the Golden egg comes to mind, does he realise that if the little bloke is not well, does not have a job and cannot afford to spend, then he will be out of a job.

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:42 am

Listening to Brandis ABC. even he does not seem to be speaking same language as Abbott. We have it this morning, that he was hung over in the interview with Kochie.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:42 am

Speaking of looking relieved when you TRY to walk away….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGMeXeFfZRw

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:46 am

GP saying they are expected to cope with freeze on rebates for six years. Yes, and PS wages to continue to fall. So will revenue from declining incomes. Cuts to welfare, including pensioners. recipe for disaster.

DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 11:50 am

Nigel no friends at the footy……..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXndiKJyO0

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 11:57 am

Apparently everyone in the Abbott gang holds a License to shoot the poor, shoot the sick and shoot the unemployed.

These "Licenses" do not to exist on the N.S.W. Register …. but the AFP are looking into it.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 12:00 pm

Some more figures from MYEFO….

Debt is now expected to reach $499 billion by 2023‑24.

Tax receipts have been revised down $31.6 billion over the forward estimates ($6.2 billion in 2014‑15), and government payments have increased.

the weaker outlook for wages growth is expected to lead to lower taxes on individuals of $2.3 billion in 2014‑15 and $8.6 billion over the forward estimates.

Since the 2014‑15 Budget, economic parameters have also resulted in increased payments over the forward estimates. In particular:

•payments related to Family Tax Benefits are expected to increase by $3.2 billion over the forward estimates, largely reflecting the impact of lower than expected wage growth which is driving up average payment rates and recipient numbers;

•increased income support payments (an increase of $966 million over the forward estimates) reflecting updated benefit recipient numbers and average payments rates.

•Child Care Rebate and Benefit payments, which are demand driven, are expected to increase by $2.4 billion over the forward estimates, largely reflecting higher than expected utilisation of child care services, both in terms of the number of children in childcare and hours claimed, and higher than expected fees;

Hockey states “Were the Government to immediately react to offset these automatic variations in taxes and payments, largely arising from weaker national income growth, it would risk exacerbating the impact of these changes on the economy. The path of fiscal consolidation and policy settings will be considered comprehensively as part of the normal annual Budget process.”

Does he not realise these reduced receipts and increased payments are happening as unemployment increases and more people sink below the poverty line? Time for a rethink Joe!

DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 12:04 pm

I had my local doctors office ring me this morning out of the blue, wanting me to make an appointment for a Pap test for me because I aint had one in 5 years I said,” no why would I want to do that, according to dead beat Dutton we go to the docs eleven times a year, which was a lie as we know, if they want a price signal they have got one, its a sad day when our banks, our doctors and our universities are allowed to screw the people and the Gov allows them too, here’s my signal back to them all, no thanks I am right”,
she said back, “so you don’t want an appointment to see the doctor”,
I said nooooo thanks, the doc can go looking elsewhere for his medicare rebate before he loses it in January,
he can thank the Nazi Party in charge of the country for that little Xmas present they are giving the doctors oky” end of conversation..

And then a couple of hours later theres the OWL on TV saying the docs arnt happy with the new copayments,
well piss off Owler a little bit too little tooo late mate….

KeithDecember 18, 2014 at 12:26 pm

Straight after Labor’s win in Victoria Premier Elect Andrews was contacted by Abbott and he tried to get Premier Andrews to break a promise in relation to the East West link. Premier Andrews has released details about the project which show that a very poor cost benefit analysis/or lack of, was completed. The actual costs of the project were very scant.

Quote: The documents released by the Premier, Daniel Andrews, show the dangers and the rank stupidity of taking an uncritical approach to multi-billion dollar infrastructure investment decisions. Unquote

from: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2014/12/17/what-can-we-learn-from-the-east-west-link-debacle/

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 12:28 pm

@Kaye Lee

You ain't seen nothing yet.

Queensland releases its own MYEFO today.

Sackings got to the post first though ….. update soon.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 12:31 pm

The report from the OECD said

“While supporting of the government’s plan to spend more on infrastructure, it said the projects approved must be backed with robust and transparent cost-benefit analysis, to ensure economic use of the existing stock and appropriate selection of new infrastructure projects.”

It also said….

“A Howard government decision to make most superannuation payouts tax free meant sizeable sums of public money were implicitly being spent in a way that largely benefited middle and upper income earners.”

townsvilleblogDecember 18, 2014 at 1:12 pm

Kaye, put simply their policies have been disastrous for the Australian AAA rated economy that they inherited we have rising unemployment and falling consumer confidence and we are riding the falling domino’s down to the lowest common denominator we need to rid ourselves of these disastrous policies State by State until we can topple the federal string pullers.

RoswellDecember 18, 2014 at 1:13 pm

Florence, you could have fooled me. I thought he was still drunk!

DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 1:15 pm

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 1:20 pm

Queenslands MYEFO

"Unemployment, currently the highest in mainland Australia, continues to plague the government and it seems unlikely it will reach its "stretch target" of 4 per cent by 2018, with unemployment for this financial year up a quarter to 6.15 per cent from the budget estimate."

Note that "stretch target" …… that is the new "aspire".

newman promised to get unemployment down to 4% ……. trouble is, just like his election promise to "lower the cost of living" ….. its is going in the opposite direction.

And thats after 3 years of being in government.

More to come :

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queenslands-deficit-higher-and-growth-lower-than-predicted-20141218-129qmv.html

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 1:30 pm

“Kaye, put simply their policies have been disastrous for the Australian AAA rated economy “

We lost our AAA rating under hake/keating. We got our AAA rating back under Howard/Costello.

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 1:36 pm

More than that John Fraser it is after three years in government with the largest majority on record and no upper house to restrict it. Everything that’s happening in Queensland politically and under government control or influence is purely of Newman’s own making.

I contend that the only thing stopping Abbott going down the same failed path, or worse, is that Abbott has got a handbrake of sorts in those who oppose his madness and are able to do something to slow or stop the plunge downwards.

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 1:40 pm

Ignore the troll please, he will take you down the same old many times beaten path as a distraction on Abbott’s and other Liberal leader’s considerable failures.

Never fails. Whenever they are going woefully, which is so very often, the troll will step in with deliberate old rehashed distractions to derail the discussion. Don’t indulge him.

DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 1:40 pm

The knuckle dragging Neil is back, must be time to go and tend to my vegie garden and paint the house, mow the lawns, anything but put up with Neil the Neanderthal, harping back to the past, its the future we are focused on, and Neil just dosnt get that…..

The Libs need a diversion, so in come the clowns to troll AIMN and make a nuisance of themselves…..typical.
He is soooooo draining, like a broken record going round and round saying the same crap.
The wheels are falling off the LNP machine and everyone knows it, except Neil the dead beat from down under….

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 1:43 pm

The wheels are falling off the LNP machine and everyone knows it, except Neil…

Oh he knows they’re falling off big time, it’s why he’s suddenly here again after a hiatus. It’s the only time he shows up and there’s no surer sign of a Liberal party or conservative leader abysmally failing than Neil coming into a discussion to rehash the same stuff over again.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 1:49 pm

“Kaye, put simply their policies have been disastrous for the Australian AAA”

No, we lost our AAA rating under Hawke/Keating in the late 1980’s. Govt debt tripled under Hawke/Keating. It was not until Howard/Costello got govt debt below 5% of GDP that we got our AAA rating back.

That is something the ALP could never do

“The knuckle dragging Neil is back”

No. i have tried to post many times but i was banned. So i changed my email address a little bit so it looks like i am back. I guess Michael will try and ban my altered email address which is not my real email address.

DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 1:51 pm

“Where women glow and men plunder”

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 1:59 pm

@Neil of Sydney

Once again you are showing your complete lack of knowledge of technology.

Then again you are stupid ….. so no one here expects any better from you.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 2:02 pm

Neil,

I also have the power to remove any comment you make. If you have nothing of value to add then don’t bother. If you would like to discuss the points brought up in this article then I would welcome your opinion of the deficit blowout, the decision not to pursue corporate tax evasion, Direct Action, PPL, the GP co-payment, superannuation tax concessions etc.

AnomanderDecember 18, 2014 at 2:03 pm

Illridewithyou exists because normal people, rational with a conscience and brain function, are able to think and extrapolate effects from causality, unlike the short-termist sociopaths in the government and their cheer squad, who speak and act without thought of any consequences.

This is borne-out by the dishonourable member for stupidity George Christensen whose digestive tract works in reverse – he opens his mouth and shit pours out. I’d hate to see him eating.

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 2:13 pm

Lol Anomander.

Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 2:16 pm

Get the message, Neil. You are not welcome here.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 2:22 pm

I got the message since you banned me from posting.

But i cannot stand falsehoods without comment.

Like Townsvilleblog made

It took 6 surplus budget by Costello till we got our AAA rating back which we lost under the AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 2:33 pm

For goodness sake. Neil cannot stand falsehoods yet he allows hundreds of major ones go by against Labor by the MSM and the Liberals yet constantly and grindingly picks up on one that’s been rehashed so many times a brick wall would give up and collapse with the onslaught.

The only supposed falsehoods Neil can’t stand are those alleged ones against the Liberals and their woeful leaders, but he has no problems with major lies and deceits both against Labor and perpetrated by the Liberals.

He’s a hypocrite of the first order only here to derail the thread because Abbott and the State Libs, who are massively failing because of their lies and deceits, are being exposed, so he needs to come in and distract, which is what he’s always done and will always do.

As people seem unable to ignore him and he gets away with his gross hypocrisy, please just delete his posts the moment they appear.

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 2:35 pm

And John Howard’s father and grandfather were complicit in dodgy dealings in PNG 😉

Yes Neil, that’s right, it’s ancient history, like your crap. You wanna see how to lose (meaningless) AAA ratings – just leave the current mob in place for another term – they may even achieve it before the end of their current term.

TrevorDecember 18, 2014 at 2:46 pm

The tennis club I am a member of has a cabal of fairly right wing staunch liberal supporters. During the last few years I have had to put up with them bagging labor and specifically Julia in fairly harsh terms and they were over the moon when the government changed. This week during the normal after tennis beers, this group were all agreed that Tony can not win the next election and has to go because he is hopeless. They are now quite open in criticising Tony and his approach, their concern is who will replace him. If this is the discussion within this group I would be surprised if it is not the same topic across the board within liberal ranks. Not very scientific I know, but gives one a gut feel of how the Torys are thinking.

No wonder Tony is looking increasingly frantic.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 2:51 pm

“Yes Neil, that’s right, it’s ancient history, like your crap. You wanna see how to lose (meaningless) AAA ratings – just leave the current mob in place for another term – they may even achieve it before the end of their current term.”

I am surprised we havn’t already lost it. We are already at the debt levels (thanks to Rudd/Gillard) that we lost our AAA rating under Hawke/keating.

But you lot do not care. We have a sovereign currency so debt does not matter so we can live in leftie laa laa land and drink and be merry. Because we can always print money to get out of trouble.

By the way the person called townsvilleblog makes me sick.

cartoonmickDecember 18, 2014 at 2:56 pm

It has been a disastrous year or more for all the reasons mentioned here, and there is much more bad news to come.

Australia now seems devoid of any reasonable and statesman like pollies on either side. Tony Windsor was our last quality pollie.

I haven’t time to comment on all aspects covered here, but would just like to say their Direct Action plan is not a plan which will benefit our environment. It is designed to benefit Big Biz and not our environment.

Real specific details of effective action within this plan are hard to find, probably because they don’t exist.

And if your having trouble trying to understand their direct action plan, then this cartoon will give you a damn good clue . . . .

Editorial / Political

Cheers
Mick

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 2:56 pm

Hmm, so the meaningless credit rating is solely dependent on the level of debt Neil? Could you explain how that works? With examples from the real world? What is the supposed effect of lowered credit ratings? When will Joe lose our AAA ratings?

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 2:57 pm

Trevor I have a very staunch right wing boss who also bagged Gillard and detested Rudd, yet in his most atrocious utterances against them I have not heard anything worse than what he says about Abbott. His usual response whenever the topic of Abbott is raised is, “effing Abbott.”

Like your appraisal of the group you associate with if my boss, whose family has a long history of actively supporting and being members of the Liberal party, are openly lambasting Abbott then indeed he has reason to be frantic.

Gregory TDecember 18, 2014 at 2:59 pm

Such revolutionary logic, you would almost think that…. Ah Libspeak 101

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 3:00 pm

And yet again the same old deliberate distraction from Neil, almost word for word from ones he’s posted dozens of times before, and for the same reason, a lame diversion, nothing more.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 3:02 pm

“When will Joe lose our AAA ratings?”

Well i guess it will happen pretty soon. But according to what i read on this blog, debt does not matter so why do you care??

lindaDecember 18, 2014 at 3:17 pm

Shush everyone……The Lying Libs…..(The ones in the white coats) are on the way to collect Neil baby and take him back to the parallel universe he occasionally escapes from….never mind Neil it’ll be over very soon

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:22 pm

Answer the question Neil – What is the effect of losing those AAA ratings? Please explain 😀

eli nesDecember 18, 2014 at 3:24 pm

nothing wrong with trolls, as they give you a chance to laugh at their simple minded belief. Howard selling gold is worth a laugh and his lying has them shuffling or walking away but if there is some resilience.(not as rare as I thought because their belief is so ingrained) it is usually worthwhile to talk about wasted resources, excessive spending and the most profligate Australian prime minister in history john winston howard. A little laugh at costello bargain asset selling and his ‘please let me be pm’ whinging’ is worth it when he enters the fray.

SalstaratDecember 18, 2014 at 3:26 pm

The loathsome red neck, Z-rated hack, Miranda Devine, has been right on only ONE issue in her short thoroughly obnoxious career as a highly offensive, misinformed and thoroughly discredited journalist: yes, indeed, the concerned “lefties”, who defy the xenophobic racist bullshit that she and other NO-TALENT hacks in the garbage wrap Murdoch rags are, most definitely, infinitely SUPERIOR in every way to the flag waving, uneducated red neck BOGANS who are the last remaining Neanderthals who purchase the filthy Murdoch garbage wrap that cater specifically to their paranoia who, invariably, are massive DUMBED DOWN supporters of the despicable Abbott! Yes, I’m a LEFTIE and you bet, I’m proud of it! Miranda Devine, Bolt the Dolt, Alan Jones and the whole disgusting, internationally condemned and despised cabinet of the worst, most hated FASCIST government in our history, keep trying (and keep failing) to use ramped up terror, xenophobic racism, hatred, division and fear as a weak and criminal excuse to foster and encourage ongoing vilification, persecution, de-humanisation of vulnerable minorities which include moderate Muslims within our community, defenceless asylum seekers, the poor, the unemployed, the homeless, the mentally ill and the disabled. Miranda Devine is so consumed by intolerance and hate, it is a wonder this disgusting bitch can even stand to look at herself in the mirror!

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 3:29 pm

“Answer the question Neil – What is the effect of losing those AAA ratings?”

Well i guess we are about to find out.

The problem with Australian debt is that unlike other OECD countries we have to fund most of our debt from overseas.

Our interest bill at the moment is $1B/month and $700M of that (70%) goes to overseas investors.

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm

Please Bacchus don’t ask Neil to answer anything, you will just get the run around of the same non-answers he always gives. You are playing right into his diversion.

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm

You are always banging on about AAA credit ratings – it’s how you entered this thread. Please explain what it means if our credit ratings are downgraded. What effect does this have on the government or us?

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:35 pm

Bear with me Mö – let’s see if he will actually answer anything or as you say, continue with his obfuscation 😉

Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 3:38 pm

You could ask him if debt is so bad then why did Hockey more than double it to pay it off, adding $350 million to the interest bill. And why did he ask for an unlimited debt ceiling. If it were that serious he could have lowered the ceiling and thus forced the country to have less debt. After all Hockey attacked Swan when Swan lifted the ceiling.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 3:40 pm

It means we will be paying a higher interest rate on our debt and we are already paying the highest interest rates in the world. It means more money will be leaving the country. It will lead to a loss in investor confidence leading to higher unemployment.

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:51 pm

How do the credit ratings agencies rate Japan? The US? What are their debt levels like? What are their interest rates like? What happened to our interest rates as the Howard government reduced our gross debt and racked up surplus after surplus? What happened to our interest rates in 2008-09 during the GFC as debt went up? What’s happening to interest rates now that Joe has doubled our debt?

Maybe, just maybe Neil, you’ve been lied to over and over and over again by your heroes? Why would they do that to someone as loyal as you? 😆

stephentardrewDecember 18, 2014 at 3:58 pm

Makes ya proud to be an Australian Tea Party.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 4:02 pm

Bacchus

Those countries you mentioned can fund the majority of their debt from their own people. Furthermore they have vast overseas assets to cover their overseas debt (Toyota, Ford, Rolls Royce).

Even furthermore the interest rates on their debts are close to zero. Our debt is at approx 3% interest, way above everybody else.

And even furthermore we have to fund the majority of our debt from overseas investors (70%) unlike the countries you mentioned.

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm

@Neil of dumbsville

Santa wont leave you are present ….. if you don't piss off.

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 4:29 pm

You’re obfuscating again Neil 😉

You’ve just proved your assertion that “we will be paying a higher interest rate on our debt” wrong. What else are they lying to you about? Actually an easier question would be what are they not lying to you about 😆

Seeing as you like history so much – remember the “boom years” of the 50s, 60s and 70s? Mostly under Menzies, but all under the Liberals, we ran deficits from 1950 to 1971? (Labor had a surplus under Chifley in 1949 – the next surplus was in 1972 under Whitlam). How come those were “boom years” if we ran nothing but deficit budgets? If deficits are such a bad thing, how can this be, and how come Joe Hockey removed the debt ceiling, doubled the debt, and is now increasing the deficit year on year?

Why did interest rates increase so much while Howard/Costello were running surplus budgets?

Are your eyes starting to open yet?

cartoonmickDecember 18, 2014 at 4:48 pm

Loving this clean interaction between the Loan Ranger (Neil) and those who find his arguments hollow.

ps. don’t mention the climate change . . . . .

stephentardrewDecember 18, 2014 at 4:54 pm

Now Bacchus you are doing it again. You know that logic history thing. Empirical evidence? Now that is not worth a snivel.
Causal connectivity? What the hell is that I mean why, when you can make it all up and impose your unsupportable opinion onto facts, would there be a problem.

Neil is an ideologue no more need be said.

Rigid, inflexible, dogmatist.

Yawn.

Andre PoublonDecember 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm

The good thing about Abbot is that he will ensure that the myth that the Liberals are better economic managers will be well and truly scuppered. The beauty of it is that they will find it hard to change their leader because they lambasted the other side for not being able to govern themselves. Talk about being hoist by your own retard.
I will also admit to a bit of schadenfreude at watching the right wing commentariat eat itself.

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 5:19 pm

😆 @ stephentardrew 4:54 pm

BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 5:23 pm

Interesting that the new political party, “Australian Progressives” seem to be embracing MMT. Two posts on facebook so far today.

guestDecember 18, 2014 at 5:24 pm

Neil of Sydney follows a certain pattern, which is to cherry-pick points of argument but ignore the context.

So we yet the argument from the Right that there is no AGW because the IPCC did not predict a “pause” in global warming, for which the IPCC has plausible explanations but the deniers do not.

Or that Gillard “lied” when she said there would be no Carbon Tax – but she would put a price on carbon (ie, Labor policy).

They say that Labor was “wasteful” and “incompetent” and caused a “great big debt”, ignoring the fact that Labor maintained AAA ratings from 3 agencies (no matter which government gained them before Labor came to power) and had the 3rd lowest debt among OECD countries – and the “Great Big Debt”, if it occurs, is still 10 years away.

Meanwhile, the Coalition has added considerably to the debt and seems to have no coherent plan to achieve a surplus any time soon.
.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 5:26 pm

Just wondering how Neil feels about us using public money to subsidise foreign owned mining companies who send more than 80% of their profits overseas.

I have also given you four hours to say something that is in any way related to this article Neil. If you cannot drag yourself out of the past and into the present then you will be consigned to history here.

LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 5:28 pm

“Interesting that the new political party, “Australian Progressives” seem to be embracing MMT. Two posts on facebook so far today.”

It is refreshing to see. I’m watching them with great interest.

Jennifer GrayDecember 18, 2014 at 5:48 pm

Something very dreadful must have happened to Miranda Divine as a child. She was nasty in her 20s, bitter and mean in her 30s and a true hater in her 40s.

RoswellDecember 18, 2014 at 6:12 pm

It’s dissppointing to see Neil of Sydney has returned. I hope admin dispenses with him soon.

atkenosDecember 18, 2014 at 6:25 pm

Abbott and Hockey are economic traitors to our nation

DragonboneTorDecember 18, 2014 at 6:25 pm

Why do we have to fund debt from overseas? Is it because we don’t have a manufacturing industry. It’s a genuine question and I would like to know how it works and what’s different about other OECD countries.

Matters NotDecember 18, 2014 at 6:38 pm

Quiggan on MMT. Read the comments section as well.

MMT and Russia

” sum up, while MMT provides a different and sometimes useful way of looking at the interaction between monetary and fiscal policy, it doesn’t change the basic equation that, in the long run, public expenditure is paid for by taxes.”

At least there is a discussion under way.

SalstaratDecember 18, 2014 at 6:53 pm

Neil, do you really want to know which government the IMF identified as the worst, most wasteful spendthrift government in Australia’s history? Probably not because it was the useless Lying Rodent, John Howard’s government! This is an absolute FACT … and, yes, I know that the three things that terrify DUMBED DOWN obsequious Murdoch manipulated BOGANS like you are: TRUTH, COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC!

The disreputable Howard government holds the notorious dubious “honour” of being the MOST SPENDTHRIFT, WASTEFUL GOVERNMENT IN OUR HISTORY! It is on record that up until now, JOHN HOWARD was recognised as the most spendthrift, wasteful PM who pissed away countless BILLIONS of Australian taxpayer funds, at the beginning of a mining boom, on the senseless Iraqi war that was a direct cause of the current ISIL tragedy! Neither Howard nor Abbott have EVER been made to account for the TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY the senseless Iraqi war has cost us and which is STILL COSTING US!

Now we have two of the biggest idiots to have ever disgraced our front cabinet, Abbott and Hockey, spending money like DRUNKEN SAILORS … BILLIONS and BILLIONS of hard earned taxpayer dollars on nonsensical commissions, needless Inquiries targeting anyone and everyone that oppose their fascist, neoliberal views or threatens to expose the LNPs relentless, nefarious corruption. In addition, the funds that the vindictive despicable Abbott is throwing away on vile campaigns of RAMPED UP TERROR, racist paranoia and needless xenophobic hysteria in order to divert attention away from the LNPs total failure as a credible government, is absolutely unforgivable!

Obviously Howard and Abbott fell out of the STUPID TREE and hit every bloody branch on the way down! Under the hopelessly inept, moronic Hockey, whose tenure as the WORST Treasurer in our history has been confirmed by respected international bodies like the IMF and Nobel prize winning economists, Australia’s debt has DOUBLED … yes, DOUBLED … and that is a fact! Hockey’s pathetic EPIC FAILURE of a mean spirited, penny pinching budget combined with the LNPs disgraceful wasteful extravagance, is regressive and has caused Australia’s business confidence to drop, unemployment in the 18-27 age group to double. Our economy is now falling faster than Gina Rinehart can drop without a parachute!

Everyone talks about the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars this depraved government is spending WITHOUT realising just HOW MUCH a BILLION DOLLARS is! It’s a HELL of a lot of money. Enough to feed and clothe an African nation, enough to provide our children and grandchildren with government subsidised tertiary education for DECADES, enough to cover YEARS of research by scientists into finding a vaccine for the Ebola crisis that this heartless government haven’t got the GUTS to address when every other country in the western world is doing so!

Howard’s megalomaniacal narcissism never ceases. This dreadful political pariah who history will judge as the most ruthless war criminal in Australia’s history, is STILL costing Australian taxpayers TWICE AS MUCH as any other RETIRED PM in Australia’s history. This vile little parasite is sucking up as much Australian taxpayers on his self entitled retirement as he can get … just like Abbott, Howard is up to his red neck in self seeking entitlement until the day he drops dead! I only hope they NEVER give this criminal a State funeral because I will be there to spit on his coffin … he is a disgusting loathsome neoliberal fascist, just like his father. Howard’s father was a signed up member of the lunatic fringe dwelling notorious fascist group, the New Guard who sought to bring down the democratically elected State Labor government under Jack Lang! As we all know, the acorn NEVER falls far from the tree, so it was NEVER going to turn out well under the fascist Howard and Howard is the discredited mentor to the crawling, obsequious arse licker, Abbott!

The totally unconscionable Abbott/Hockey/Cormann are tossing away BILLIONS of hard earned taxpayer dollars on their own self interest. Spending OUR money without a moment’s thought for our children’s future! Vandalising our environment, forcing Australian citizens to face massive pollution by fostering a filthy, toxic COAL INDUSTRY that the rest of the world DESPISES. Head-in-the-sand attitudes to the inevitability of horrific climate change and absolutely destroying Australia’s once fine international reputation! Under Abbott’s psychopathic mismanagement, this country has now become a pig ignorant, selfish, mean spirited, racist, complacent, polluting backwater … internationally scorned and condemned. How far we have fallen since the enlightened Whitlam. The real tragedy is that despite all the loathsome LIES, the broken promises, the lack of transparency, the blatant corruption undertaken on a daily basis by the WORST government in our history, there are STILL intellectual midgets out there like Neil who are so manipulated, so stupid, they STILL try (and fail) to defend the indefensible. Dumbed down to catatonic idiocy! You just want to grab them and SHAKE some sense into them … but you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear!

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 8:35 pm

“RBA $8.8 billion (classed as foregone dividends)”

Actually this loan to the Reserve Bank has not cost the country anything. Since the money was borrowed we will have to pay interest on the loan. But the money was given to the Reserve Bank. They will most probably put it in the bank and earn interest on the money.

Interest on loan = interest on the deposited money

Net cost to Australia= zero.

However if the RBA uses the money they may make some money or they may lose some money.

Erotic MoustacheDecember 18, 2014 at 8:39 pm

Neil,

Please re-read your post but take some anti-head explosion pills beforehand. I mean, what the hell was that?

LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 8:40 pm

Quiggin states that proponents of MMT believe taxation is not needed to finance public expenditure. This isn’t true. Income tax is not needed. Other forms of tax (e.g. GST) are used to finance public expenditure. I think that’s really sloppy for a person in his position.

One of the commenters posted:
“People could easily accrue tax obligations as negative values in their account or ledger before positive values are credited. That is to say, taxation could start before government spending. The New Pacifica government might decide (somewhat unwisely perhaps) to have a poll tax or a window tax and levy it up front at the start of each financial year. Thus they could levy this tax first in year zero and negatively credit every potential taxpayer’s account. Now New Pacifica has positive numbers on its government budget balance sheet and can start spending. You could do it either way, it doesn’t matter.”

MMT states that income has to be received before income tax is payable. A poll tax or a window tax is not income tax. These taxes are no different to, say, our emergency services levy. It’s the same for everyone regardless of income.

If the government relies on income tax for funding public expenditure, why are they slashing 1200 or so staff from the taxation office and doing nothing about making the wealthiest people in the nation pay their fair share of tax? They’re obsessed with getting that budget into a surplus asap. There’s no way they would be ignoring all that revenue if it really did pay for something, regardless of who their mates are. It’s more important for them to remain in government.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 8:56 pm

I was trying to make a post related to the article since that is what i was told.

The $8.8B loan to the RBA was mentioned in the article.

This loan costs the budget $300M/year in interest but costs the country nothing since the RBA will put the money in the bank and most probably get $300M/year in interest.

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 9:18 pm

Uh oh !

Neil of stupidsville is having a fight with the pornographic "Miniscule Erotic Moustache".

2 nuts at 20 paces ……. and absolutely nothing between them.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 9:51 pm

Neil,

Hockey berated Wayne Swan for taking out $500 million in dividends from the RBA and that was his excuse for topping them up with $9 billion. He then proceeded to take out $1.2 billion in dividends himself.

The ONLY reason he gave that money to the RBA was to make the deficit look as big as he could and then hope that the Aussie dollar went down. It was a cynical exercise in political manipulation of figures and a gamble with our money on the forex.

And thank you for at least having a go at talking about THIS government.

BTW we don’t borrow money – we issue bonds that investors want to buy.

I bet Hockey wishes he had that $8.8 billion back again. I assume he will take it in dividends and expect us not to notice. A year after giving it to them he has already taken 13.6% of it back again. He really must think we are stupid.

John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 10:07 pm

I bet Hockey wishes he had another job.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 10:15 pm

I bet his wish comes true 🙂

Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 10:19 pm

Who else would have him?

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 10:21 pm

“The ONLY reason he gave that money to the RBA was to make the deficit look as big as he could “

Well that is what you want to believe. Swan was asked not to take out any RBA dividends but he did it anyway

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/mckibbin-accuses-swan-of-economic-vandalism/5044474

“Warwick McKibbin fired the broadside at Mr Swan, accusing the former treasurer of being reckless with the central bank’s reserve fund………………..The treasurer was requested not to extract that from the balance sheet of the bank.

“He ignored that request and took $500 million so that he could reach the budget surplus in 2012-13.

“That to me is economic vandalism. It wasn’t that he may not have been asked to put more money in, but he was certainly asked not to take money out……………….RBA governor Glenn Stevens appeared before an inquiry earlier this year. He confirmed he wrote to Mr Swan asking that all the bank’s profit be retained to replenish the fund.

“My preference was, and this was expressed, that I’d like to retain the whole 1,096 (million dollars) to build up the Reserve Bank reserve fund, but he did not agree with that,” Mr Stevens told the inquiry..”

DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 10:24 pm

“Who else would have him?”
The Zoo would be the only place left, he would fit in with all the other flying monkeys
and the kids could throw him peanuts, mmmmmm Karma 🙂

Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 10:32 pm

Oh do shut up, Neil.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 11:11 pm

Michael

Merry Christmas to you as well.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:11 pm

So how do you feel about Hockey taking out $1.2 billion in dividends?

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:13 pm

I must say, Neil is brave putting his head up at this time.

As for tis government being obsessed with getting the budget into surplus could not be further from the truth. They have no interest in the economy

They are about cutting government services and lowering personal and company taxes.

Yes small or none existing government and as little tax as possible. For industry and wealthy that is.

They have no problem with levy etc. Are into user pay.

Matters NotDecember 18, 2014 at 11:18 pm

Lee December 18, 2014 at 8:40 pm asserted:

Quiggin states that proponents of MMT believe taxation is not needed to finance public expenditure. This isn’t true. Income tax is not needed. Other forms of tax (e.g. GST) are used to finance public expenditure. I think that’s really sloppy for a person in his position.

While I think that MMT has much to offer, I’m not convinced that those who adhere to the MMT view of the world have ‘clinched’ the argument in any absolute sense. But I’m not surprised. Indeed if they argued otherwise, then I would be surprised. And disappointed

If I can step back a little and raise questions re ‘epistemological’ truth. Briefly, given our (cultural) ‘common sense’, ‘truth’ (in any absolute sense) is actually confined to ‘logic’ or ‘mathematics’. ‘Science’ doesn’t claim to be ‘truthful’. On a good day, science advances arguments based on ‘probabilities’, accompanied by ‘degrees of confidence’. BTW, I am not dismissing the importance of same.

Nevertheless, when it comes to the ‘social sciences’, and for good or bad, economics, including MMT, must fall into the category where ‘degrees of confidence’ are much more speculative.

To cite a ‘theory’ as a ‘proof’ when it’s the ‘theory’ itself that’s under question, might not be the best way to proceed.

But perhaps not?

Be interested in any responses to my ‘theory’.

Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 11:22 pm

Merry Christmas to you too, Neil. Now go away.

Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 11:28 pm

“So how do you feel about Hockey taking out $1.2 billion in dividends?”

Assuming what you say is correct, i guess it is not a problem anymore. RBA reserves had been depleted to $2B under Swan. The RBA like to have them at $10B. With the $8.8B loan the reserves are back to normal levels.

The RBA makes money so their reserves would still be at $10B where they would like them.

“I must say, Neil is brave putting his head up at this time.”

Actually i have tried to post many times but i was banned. I made a single letter change to my email address and it looks like i can make comments.

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:31 pm

Slow wage growth is adding to childcare blowout.

Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 11:32 pm

No, you weren’t banned, Neil. Your comments were set to ‘moderation’, however we have had huge problems with the system which meant that your comments couldn’t be released.

But any more crap out of you . . .

LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:34 pm

“To cite a ‘theory’ as a ‘proof’ when it’s the ‘theory’ itself that’s under question, might not be the best way to proceed.”

I think that criticising something by constructing a straw man might not be the best way to proceed either. 😉 (Not you, but the link you shared)

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:35 pm

I think it was Gittens, that said Hockey’s action 8.8 billion was a con. A nasty one at that.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:41 pm

Economics is a matter of priorities. Our Governments have no trouble finding money to fund their priorities. After that it’s up to the accountants to present the figures in the way that makes you look good and the other guy look bad.

Tony has the money to pay for Direct Action and OSB and PPL and security forces and gifts to Cadbury, Manly Sea Eagles (in his electorate) and Murdoch’s Broncos. He has the money for jet fighters and submarines and drones and bomb proof cars and bigger VIP jets for his entourage. He has the money to pay Tim Wilson and Sophie Mirabella and Maurice Newman and Amanda Vanstone and Dick Warburton. He has the money to spend $150,000 to move a table. He has the money to live at Kirribilli House and commute to his place of work in Canberra.

Whatever theory you want to call it, both sides find money for what they want. One side spends it on wars and mining, the other on health, education and the environment.

Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:56 pm

Neil. you are clever. Tip. If you want to remain, take a look at your behaviour. Otherwise I suspect you will disappear again.

Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:59 pm

I hate myself for this but….here’s one for Neil

Under the Howard Coalition government, the RBA paid a total of $20.2 billion in dividends. This was $1.83 billion a year. In today’s dollar terms, the total amount paid by the RBA was in excess of $30 billion or almost $3 billion per annum.

Under Labor, the RBA paid a total of $7.9 billion in dividends or around $1.3 billion a year, on average. In today’s dollar terms, this total approximately $9 billion or an average of around $1.5 billion per annum. In the last three Labor budgets, the average dividend was a tiny $410 million a year.

In other words, Treasurer Peter Costello ‘raided’ the RBA, using Hockey’s language, to the tune of $3 billion a year in today’s dollar terms for every year in 11 years, while Treasurer Swan (and then briefly Chis Bowen) ‘raided’ $1.5 billion per year for six years.

Had Costello trimmed his demand for RBA cash by even $1 billion a year in today’s terms, the amount of reserves at the RBA would have been extremely high right now and would have remained elevated during the global financial crisis.

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 12:31 am

Even if you are correct it most probably was not a problem.

But you people as usual are being deceitful. You continually claim and give references that the RBA did not need the loan and did not ask for it. Even if true the RBA DID ask that no money be taken out.

SABRA LANE: The last two treasurers say the RBA never asked them to boost the bank’s reserve fund. Mr Swan says if the request had been made to him, it would have been granted.

WARWICK MCKIBBIN: This, to me, is really a very bizarre statement, because when I was on the board, 2011 – I finished July, 2011 – we made a very large loss because of the very high Australian dollar. The following year after I’d left, there was a small profit of over a billion. The Treasurer was requested not to extract that from the balance sheet of the bank. He ignored that request and took half a billion dollars so that he could reach the budget surplus in ’12-’13. Now that, to me, is economic vandalism. It wasn’t that he may not have been asked to put more money in, but he was certainly asked not to take money out…………

SABRA LANE: The governor confirmed he wrote to Mr Swan asking that all the bank’s profits be retained to replenish the fund.

GLENN STEVENS (Feb. 22): My preference was, and this was expressed, that I’d like to retain the whole $1,096, I think it was, to build up the Reserve Bank reserve fund, but he did not agree with that.

You govern for the times. The RBA asked Swan not to take money out.

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 12:43 am

Yoo Hoo Neil we have a despicable government willing to make its poorest citizens suffer, ignores science, which only a fool would do, denies global warming and you just want to waffle on about the past. Nothing will save us unless we kick this mob of scientific and economic illiterates out. Debt is increasing while revenues decline. Are you so naive as to be blind to the facts. Lets blame Swan. Seen the polls lately? The people don’t believe you.

Do us a favor and go away.

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 1:04 am

You must be talking about the Rudd/Gillard govt which created all this mess.

It is hard to put humpty dumpty back together.

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 1:25 am

Do catch up Neil. Joe already let the cat out of the bag – there is no mess. That was just BS rhetoric to get elected.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/26/hockey-tells-kiwis-there-no-economic-crisis-australia

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 1:28 am

Have you worked out yet why Liberal governments running deficit budgets for 21 years straight was a good thing? 😉

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 8:36 am

“You govern for the times. ”

Yes Neil. So now will you acknowledge that when the GFC hit the most important thing was to keep people employed. This is a lesson that Hockey has not learned which is why we are going backwards at a fearsome rate. Refusing to help the manufacturing industry that was suffering because of the high dollar caused by the mining industry, slashing the public service, reducing the disposable income for low income earners, cutting government spending – these are all false savings as revenue falls and welfare payments increase. Are you any closer to understanding the benefits of stimulus spending?

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 9:37 am

“Do catch up Neil. Joe already let the cat out of the bag – there is no mess.”

Comments like that are so wrong.

Firstly as Treasurer Hockey has to be careful what he says. He has to be diplomatic.

Secondly he is correct. The economy is OK. Not great but OK. But the budget is trashed and a trashed budget will eventually lead to a trashed economy.

You fix the hole in the roof before it rains not after it starts raining.

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 9:39 am

“Are you any closer to understanding the benefits of stimulus spending?”

Obviously not! 🙄

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 9:42 am

Let’s fix the hole in the roof by stopping superannuation tax concessions (MYEFO shows that this year alone the concessions are worth $36.25 billion) and fossil fuel subsidies. Let’s bring back the carbon price and the MRRT.

There……done.

PS If they had the balls to tackle corporate tax avoidance we would have plenty of money for frivolities like health, education, pensions and foreign aid.

PPS Still NO mention of MYEFO on Abbott’s facebook page. So much for “selling the message.”

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 9:44 am

If the budget is trashed, why is Hockey doing everything to make it worse? As Florence nee Fedup mentioned elsewhere, it’s pure unadulterated ideology with absolutely no thought of “governing for the times.”

The reverse Robin Hood ideology of these dolts leads to recession, greater deficits, more social dislocation, small business failures, suicides. What they’re trashing isn’t just the budget, it’s OUR society!

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 10:06 am

It would be a very interesting exercise to see what the budget bottom line would be now if we had continued with Labor policies. The $28.6 billion in foregone revenue is just the tip of the iceberg. Can we PLEASE cancel those 58 extra fighter jets?

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 10:08 am

Neil that has to be your most desperate attempt yet.

Diplomacy bullshit.

What moron would contradict himself in such a blatant and obvious manner. Heard of diplomatic ties whereby thoughts are made evident to other nations through safe channels. Diplomacy is not blabbing the truth out to the media. You really do think we are fools.

The guy is a thundering idiot and your argument the last gasp of a dying and discredited ideologue.

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 10:13 am

The Kouk did the numbers from a spending perspective. As you say Kaye, it would be interesting to add foregone revenue to the equation.

John FraserDecember 19, 2014 at 10:20 am

" The poorest people either don't have cars or actually don't drive very far in many cases". … Hockey.

On one of his journeys to insult "Neil of stupidsville" and his ilk.

But as has been displayed here on countless occasions (this one included) "Neil of stupidsville" cannot be insulted.

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 10:32 am

HT to Australian Progressives for this one.

A Big Safety Net and Strong Job Market Can Coexist. Just Ask Scandinavia.

Some of the highest employment rates in the advanced world are in places with the highest taxes and most generous welfare systems, namely Scandinavian countries. The United States and many other nations with relatively low taxes and a smaller social safety net actually have substantially lower rates of employment.

Exactly the opposite of what Joe Hockey is attempting to do here. Why is unemployment and your debt & deficit increasing Joe?

Michael TaylorDecember 19, 2014 at 10:46 am

Neil, I see you’re testing everyone’s patience.

SalstaratDecember 19, 2014 at 10:50 am

Neil, I don’t know how many times LNP minions need to be told that the Rudd/Gillard government managed to steer Australia through one of the biggest international economic downturns in history .. the GFC. As a result, Wayne Swan received international awards and praise as the world’s greatest treasurer due to his highly successful Stimulus Package which did something that Hockey is completely incapable of doing, instilling confidence and encouraging growth and public spending back into the economy. How many times do you LNP sycophants need to be told that AUSTERITY BUDGETS do NOT work. They have NEVER worked and will NEVER work … Austerity Budgets have failed spectacularly around the world and they are doomed to fail again. Sadly, the complete idiots at the helm of the LNP (that would be Hockey and Cormann) are CLUELESS and totally incapable of learning from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others! When you keep repeating the same old mistakes, Neil, guess what happens? You get the same old FAILED results.

What do we have now under Slow Joe in-the-hock Hockey? Debt has increased by 13.7% over Labor’s levels. … and Hockey had more than doubled the projected budget deficits over Labor’s levels. Small businesses are shutting down at a startling rate; unemployment (particularly in the 18-26 year group) has risen alarmingly and long-term unemployment is a growing problem for Australia with about 500,000 people receiving Newstart Allowance for more than a year, a figure that has almost doubled since the global financial crisis. Young people CANNOT hope to find jobs when there are NO JOBS to be found .. Hockey just doesn’t get it! When you have a penny pinching, austerity budget this is what happens, Neil:

ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN = people get worried/scared = people lose confidence = people stop spending = small businesses close down = more people lose jobs = economy keeps slowing down = people reduce their spending further = down, down, down = RECESSION

I know most LNP minions are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but even someone with the most rudimentary understanding of economics can understand the devastating long-term social consequences of austerity budgets and Joe Hockey’s catastrophic budget will spell D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R for our economy. The horrific consequences Hockey’s budget will have on the future of our children will take decades to repair. No wonder the IMF have stated that Hockey is the WORST Treasurer in Australia’s history!

Get it? 🙄

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 11:10 am

“Austerity Budgets have failed spectacularly around the world and they are doomed to fail again”

You got that the wrong way around.

Socialist govts around the world have trashed budgets and economies. People then elect Conservatives to clean up the mess.

Best to not trash the budget in the first place then austerity would not be needed.

What happened under Rudd/Gillard was always going to happen. All the GFC did was speed up the inevitable journey to the trashed budget which always happens under the ALP.

It always happens because ALP supporters think that debt is not a problem and money grows on trees.

LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 11:26 am

Bwahahaha Neil!

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=29678

Read it and weep.

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 12:22 pm

Thanks Lee great post. Bill does it again.

SalstaratDecember 19, 2014 at 1:04 pm

The DEBT IS NOT THE PROBLEM, Neil …. the SOURCE OF FUNDING IS THE PROBLEM! Every time the LNP has come to power, Australia’s economy has SLUMPED … have you ever wondered why? It is because AUSTERITY kills incentive, confidence and economic stimulation … it just isn’t possible you can be so stupid as not to understand that, Neil, is it? Mmmmm, I guess anything is possible. Are you completely DEAF, DUMB and BLIND as to what is going on around you? The economy is now in TATTERS, Neil … have a good-long-look. You don’t make any comment about the fact that the deficit has DOUBLED under Hockey, UNEMPLOYMENT has doubled, CONFIDENCE has DROPPED and our economy is slowing down to a level not seen since the last LNP government stuffed everything up!

Like most LNP sycophants, you are ONLY concerned by debt and deficit and NOT about the future educational opportunities of our children, nor the fact that Christopher Pyne is STILL pushing to put tertiary education out of reach of working class Australians, not the slightest bit concerned about the horrific torture and even murder of innocent defenceless asylum seekers under the malevolent callous disregard of the psychopath, Scott Murderson; you are prepared to overlook and condone the non-stop LIE after LIE after LIE of the unconscionable Abbott regime yet still point a finger at ONE statement made by Julia Gillard which was NOT a lie at the time she said it; you are prepared to forgive and forget Abbott’s endless and growing list of BROKEN PROMISES and the fact that he has not achieved ONE SINGLE THING in 14 months of catastrophic rule … NOT .. ONE .. SINGLE .. THING that benefits ANYONE outside of billionaire corporate predators and self seeking mining magnets!

OK, you have pinned your star to the worst fascist government to have EVER crawled across the electoral line on a staggering platform of deceit. This makes you an absolute FOOL, Neil! A mindless, manipulated fool willing to believe EVERY bald faced lie spoon fed to you by the worst corporate predator in the world, that would be Murdoch! Even the most conservative people I know who originally were stupid enough to vote for the LNP have NOW REALISED that the neoliberal, ultra right wing fascists, Abbott and Hockey are just to stupid and far too dangerous to be left out and about without supervision. Only the most dumbed down, gormless, red neck crawling morons are cheering Abbott and Hockey on now; Only the most mindless, ill informed sycophants cheer on the “Duh Duh Duh T-t-t-teeeeam Austrayleeeya” now – would that be YOU, Neil? Are you really a signed up screaming sycophant to the meaningless three word slogans?

The SOURCE of funding is the PROBLEM! Instead of vilifying the poor, the unemployed and hitting the most vulnerable people in the pocket over and over and over again …. BRING BACK THE MINING TAX AND DOUBLE IT! The miners are going from billionaires to TRILLIONAIRES and not one cent of it is staying in this country, get it? The mining industry only employs less than 1.8% of the total working population of Australia yet is taking the MASSIVE SHARE of profits. Profits and jobs are now going to be sent over to China when Abbot’s dumbed down pact with China comes into effect. Mining companies need to pay at least 40% of their profits BACK INTO AUSTRALIA because the RESOURCES belong to ALL OF US … get it? ALL OF US! The miners MUST face the consequence of their endless rapacity — their horrific pollution of our rivers, the soil erosion to so many farmers’lands, the devastating environmental damage to our world heritage listed sites like the dumping of soil waste on our GREAT BARRIER REEF … how does THAT sit with your sensibilities, Neil? Oh, I forgot, you people don’t worry about other people or our environment … it is ALL about the debt and the deficit, eh? Whitlam got the balance right …. a GOOD government rules FOR the people (NOT for billionaire miners and corporate predators); a GOOD government CARES about its most vulnerable citizens; a GOOD government is only as GOOD as how it treats and respects its poorest citizens; a GOOD government places high priority on our children’s future NOT on the unending rapacity of huge multinational corporations who seek to rape and plunder our land without consequence!

The SOURCE of funding is the PROBLEM! If the budget was in such DIRE straights as Hockey will want you to believe, why did they allow the marauding Murdoch get away with a $900 Million tax refund gift, Neil … WHY???? Why are people on the lowest incomes expected to FUND MURDOCH? WHY??? Why are billionaire multinational companies NOT PAYING THEIR WAY. The top 1% are Abbott’s protected CRONIES and the rest of Australia are going to pay and pay and pay. Does that seem fair to you, Neil? Are you earning in excess of $300,000 per annum? No? Then, guess what, YOU (yes YOU) are right in the centre of Abbott and Hockey’s TARGET because, as far as Hockey is concerned, ANYONE not earning more than $1 Million per annum is a worthless, non performing, LEANER! The sneering condescending SCORN that this despised, malevolent pack of sociopaths has for ordinary Australians is absolutely disgusting. Their reprehensible personal self entitlement and ongoing corruption is beyond evil. Malcolm Fraser was so RIGHT about one thing: Abbott is the most dangerous PM Australia has EVER had! There is a TSUNAMI of hatred out there for the Abbott/Hockey government, Neil … watching them losing State elections is like watching a deck of cards going down – this puts people like YOU in the overwhelming MINORITY, Neil. Thank God for that!

LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 1:15 pm

The budget is rooted. The wealthiest people in the country are not paying any income tax, yet the Abbott government wants to rid the taxation office of 1200+ employees. That fact alone should tell Neil that the government is lying.

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 1:24 pm

Neil is the sort that would sell the house to pay off the mortgage and then sell your business to pay the monthly accounts and then sell all your assets to buy the month’s groceries.

We have no debt but we also have nowhere to live, no income, and after a month, no food.

In March, Rinehart’s mining group, Hancock Prospecting, signed off on a $US7.2 billion debt package for her highly anticipated Roy Hill iron ore project in Western Australia’s Pilbara region.

Why would she do that?

Government spending is an investment in the future Neil, unless of course it is wasted on wars and weapons and orange life rafts and offshore concentration camps and bribes to corrupt officials and polluters and lavish dinners for billionaires and tax concessions for the wealthy.

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 2:23 pm

“You got that the wrong way around.”

Austerity?
Austerity has been an utter disaster for the eurozone
The Complete Failure Of Austerity, In 1 Chart
IMF: Austerity is much worse for the economy than we thought
Austerity doesn’t work: New IMF report details the damage

You really are an economics lightweight aren’t you Neil – perhaps if you kept up to date with current events instead of continually living in the past, you may learn something for a change 🙄

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 2:30 pm

Bacchus

I stand by what i said. I believe it was reckless spending that got countries into trouble.

Austerity has been used as a medicine to try and solve a countries debt problem. Now you may be right- austerity may make the problem worse. But it was not austerity that caused the problem.

It was socialist policies that caused the problem. You have got it the wrong way around.

What is your solution?? More debt and deficit??

DanDarkDecember 19, 2014 at 2:47 pm

Why do people bother with Neil, its like arguing with an ex-husband or wife its just futile
an absolutely waste of energy, we are not learning anything, or sharing anything that might be useful
now its just rejecting Neils futile arguments and falsehoods and have been for a couple of days

There are two types of people in the world contributors and contaminators, givers and takers
and Neil dosnt contribute common sense arguments and talks shit basically
Its all about Neil and only him and what he wants
and if Neil and this Gov get their way we will all just stop eating, because food is out of the reach of the poor, we live in on streets
and die because we cant afford a doctor……. that will keep him happy and his Messiah Tones
Back to painting the house till Neil pisses off……

Michael TaylorDecember 19, 2014 at 3:17 pm

“Why do people bother with Neil”.

He’s like an annoying mosquito. You just have to swat it.

If Neil was a dog, I’m sure he’d spend his day barking at cars.

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 4:35 pm

“It was socialist policies that caused the problem. ”

What a load of crap. The GFC was caused by private debt not public spending. And you may remember, under Howard private debt skyrocketed.

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 4:42 pm

“What is your solution?? More debt and deficit??”

The size of the debt or deficit is completely irrelevant. Let’s make this simple. If you can borrow money at 3% and invest it in something that brings you a higher return would you consider that wise?

We need to boost employment. We need to invest in health, education and research. We need to provide affordable housing and childcare. We need to invest in targeted infrastructure, not a road your mates want to build but game changers like the NBN and high speed rail.

Rather than “burdening our children and grandchildren with debt”, we are stealing their future for a very short term temporary profit now. This is despicable.

mars08December 19, 2014 at 4:57 pm

#SirNeeeeelOfStupidity…

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

And for those of you who insist on giving him oxygen….

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.”

BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 5:27 pm

Yes, Neil can be annoying, but at least he’s sticking broadly to the topic since Kaye warned him to stay on topic yesterday at 2:02 pm.

I’ve just been having a similar “discussion” with mindless right-whingers on facebook – basically on Campbell Newman’s asset ~~sales~~ leases. The plan is to sell assets to to pay down debt and to save $1.7 billion in interest payments – problem is, those assets currently return $3.7 billion to the Qld economy. These dolts think that’s good economics 🙄

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 6:19 pm

“The GFC was caused by private debt not public spending”

Well at least you admitted it was not austerity that caused any problems.

I also think it was reckless spending that caused the problems some European countries are experiencing.

LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 6:25 pm

“Well at least you admitted it was not austerity that caused any problems.”

What do you think contributes to private debt?

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 6:30 pm

I admitted no such thing. Austerity has been a failed attempt at a solution to a problem cause by corporate greed and ballooning private debt. The examples of austerity failing are endless. We need job growth NOW. Jobs come from increased demand so we want people to have more disposable income. Jobs also come from innovation so we want increased investment in research and education. We also want to improve productivity as this increases profit. Health is important in increasing productivity as is education and research (again). We want to stop wars and refugees so foreign aid is crucial. We must act now to slow climate change down. Every direction this government is taking is just wrong.

Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 6:36 pm

I suspect austerity was found to be a failure back in the days of the great depression. I believe Jack Lang thought so. Wanted to spend money in NSW instead of paying off debt, mainly to mother England. Even after losing office, manage to build much infrastructure from Harbour Bridge to Electrifying the railway. Yes, was kicked out. Ones sees his name on numerous foundation stones in Western Sydney.

No austerity did not help. 2nd world war seemed to have done the trick

There is much in common with those years today. Can be frightening when one starts making comparison.

Simple understanding of my uneducated father. A wheat cocky use to say. . Money was made to go around. Each times it circles, it creates wealth on the way. One worries when it stops going around. He believe you could never waste money while it was circulating.

Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 7:20 pm

“Austerity has been a failed attempt at a solution to a problem cause by corporate greed and ballooning private debt. “

Exactly. Austerity is an attempt at a solution. But it did not create the problem.

Best not to create the problem in the first place.

SalstaratDecember 19, 2014 at 7:27 pm

Neil, you are so dumbed down, so inflexible, so THICK .. you make a crate of cement look liquid. You seriously need counselling, mate ….. seriously! Now, my advice to everyone is to just ignore Neil … he is either DUMBER than a sack of oats or he is the most incorrigible Troll since Reddit’s Violentacrez! Unfortunately, you cannot legislate against STUPIDITY ….. if you could, Neil would get the death penalty!

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 7:29 pm

Micheal please squash the annoying title buzzy thing before the rigor-mortise of boredom sets in.

The AIM NetworkDecember 19, 2014 at 7:36 pm

Stephen, Salstarat has the best advice. Ignore Neil – skip past him – he doesn’t exist.

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 7:46 pm

Poof, gone, finished, void, annihilated, voice muffled sucked up into the the nether regions, or more explicitly, fundamental orifice of dear leader.

Silence is golden

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 7:47 pm

Damn someone hold me down I can’t stop.

Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 7:54 pm

Why is spending always seen as debt. Spending can lessen debt.

Spending can also be seen as investment in the country’s future. Yes, investment that pays off debt. That creates new wealth.

Austerity does not do this. Does not make space for private industry, Just does not seem to happen. Austerity can lead to greater debt. Does lead to greater debt.

Saying that, this government is not interested in the economy. Nothing in the budget addresses the structural imbalance within. This government is focussed and obsessed with putting in place neoliberalism ideology. As far as they are concerned, the economy will look after itself.

I have this funny idea, that capitalism needs boom and bust to carry on. Yes bust, with new economies growing out of the ashes. Has to be this way, as it relies on continuous growth, that common-sense tells us cannot be.

Pure capitalism cannot create a fair, civil and jsu6t society. Therefor cannot meet the needs of the people.

Neil, Abbott has to keep people concentrated on the myth of Labor’s spending and waste, to put their toxic economic policies and ideology in place.

None in the world are extreme as this mob.

RoswellDecember 19, 2014 at 7:55 pm

stephentardrew, I’ve seen Neil around the traps for about five years now, and he hasn’t changed. He will get a great deal of satisfaction in the knowledge that he has got under your skin. Best to not only ignore him, but to not even mention his name. Hopefully though, he’ll eithet go away or someone will give him the flick fairly soon. I hope.

Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:02 pm

Neil, my solution is more spending and investment. In the long run, will save money. NBNCo to the premises. Only fibre., Gonski reforms, where education starts before school, levelling the playing field for all kids. Universal health insurance scheme, that keeps people healthy. Yes, and move ro renewal energy, that is the power of the future. One that does not rely on fossil fuels. One that is more efficient, along with cleaner. Investment in research that leads to cheaper, cleaner more efficient steel and aluminium mills. The list is endless.

And the most important, a highly dedicated and skilled workforce. All the things Gillard was spending money on, and this idiot has demolished. Putting nothing in its place.

Yes, Neil, Abbott wastes money with his austerity programme. Only austerity for those at the bottom by the way.

Yes spending, which is not debt for the future. One invest, to get future profit. That is how the world works.

Unemployment is the most wasteful thing a country can under go. Costs with no returns.,

Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:10 pm

Neil, the more Abbott cuts, the more the deficit or as you say, the debt grows. We have childcare blowing out. Know why? Wage growth is slow, meaning that more are entitled to childcare rebates, Also taxation receipts has slow down, leading to revenue shortfalls. Cuts means people have less income to spend. Yes, can only manage established debts. GET IT. All pensions that are paid are generally spent immediately, buying goods, paying GST and keeping people in work. Most ends up back in the hands of the government. Yes, and the process begins again.

Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:28 pm

Roswell, and he is still cutting and pasting the same comments. Still using the stale old lines, Nothing new, that fits in with todays situation or environment.

Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:31 pm

Neil will move through his listed arguments, one by one. Not a word will be altered.

stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 9:01 pm

Roswell not under my skin just being a bit naughty.

Made ya look ya dirty chook.

Will now hold my tongue literally. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……………………………………………………..

Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 9:39 pm

When governments stop spending private debt increases. Governments don’t default. Private companies and individuals do.

And I acknowledge the fact that Neil hasn’t mentioned Howard for a goodly while. A hopeful sign.

John FraserDecember 19, 2014 at 10:04 pm

I think "Neil" might be Joe Hockey on a learning curve.

Or would that be a "leaning" curve ?

Neil of SydneyDecember 20, 2014 at 9:30 am

“Every time the LNP has come to power, Australia’s economy has SLUMPED … have you ever wondered why? ”

This is not true. In fact it is generally the other way around. One thing Labor govts have never been successful with is unemployment.

Gough was handed unemployment at 2% and promptly double it to 4%. Hawke/Keating was handed unemployment at 8% in 1983 and it was 8% in 1996 with records high levels during this time. Rudd/Gillard was handed unemployment at 4.3% in 2007 and left it at 5.8% in 2013. A huge increase in unemployment.

This was the unemployment rate during Keatings recession

“Sept-Dec 1991- 10.1, 10.0, 10.2, 10.4
Jan-Dec 1992- 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 11.2
Jan-Dec1993- 10.9, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 10.8, 11.0, 10.8, 11.0, 10.7, 10.9, 10.8, 10.6
Jan-April 1994- 10.4, 10.3, 10.3, 10.1”

Several years of DD unemployment. Nothing like it since the great depression. Keating won the election in 1993 with unemployment raging at 11%.

Labor will never be successful with lowering unemployment because their policies do not work.

LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 9:36 am

Neil what drugs are you on? Unemployment has increased since the LNP came to power. Even brain dead morons know that.

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 9:48 am

Dragging Neil back into the present….

Australia’s unemployment rate is the highest it’s been in twelve years, and the government forecasts it will rise to 6.5% by June next year. The rate is expected to have a six in front of it until late 2017, well beyond the next election.

Growth is slow, unemployment is rising, and inflation is low. At the same time, house prices have been increasing from an already uncomfortably high level, lifting household debt levels and raising questions about the health of the financial system if those prices were to fall.

The Australian Westpac-Melbourne Institute Consumer Sentiment Index fell 5.7 percent to 91.1 in December from 96.6 in November. It is its lowest level since August 2011. Consumer Confidence in Australia averaged 101.82 from 1974 until 2014.

Business Confidence in Australia decreased to 1 in November of 2014 from 5 in October of 2014. Business Confidence in Australia averaged 5.85 from 1997 until 2014

Gross debt has increased by almost $70 billion since the election and the deficit has blown out by $12 billion in the 7 months since the May budget.

Tell me you are happy with the way this government has turned things around….

Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:12 am

Neil you have really lost it. Look again, deficit, debt and unemployment growing. Howard managed stagnation. High unemployment and inflation. Same with interest rates would always be lower under LNP. Went up how many times under Costello. Saying something, no matter how many times does not make it real.

Neil of SydneyDecember 20, 2014 at 10:15 am

“The rate is expected to have a six in front of it until late 2017”

And that is where is was during the Hawke/keating disaster.

I was just commenting on Salstarat saying that the economy has slumped every time the LNP is in power. This is not true.

It is generally true that the economy slumps every time the ALP is in power.

The Coalition is having trouble putting humpty dumpty back together but i suspect the ALP has started a runaway debt train that no govt can stop.

Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:18 am

I seem to recall unemployment being nearer to 1% under Whitlam. Under Menzies I seem to recall stop go economy and employment. Along with headlines of Horror budgets.

Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:21 am

One could say Abbott shares another thing with Menzies. Yes, Menzies push to sell pig iron to Japan no matter the cost, resembles Abbott effort to sell coal, no matter the harm is causes.

Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:23 am

Neil, it has been explained to you before, figures and graphs taken out of context means nothing. Do not say what you believe.

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 10:24 am

The Coalition is having trouble justifying their blatant support for the wealthy end of town Neil. Cutting spending while refusing to look at raising revenue hits services and costs to lower income earners while they actively protect and encourage tax avoidance by the wealthy.

Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 10:34 am

Why has this government more than doubled debt off their own back, debt that has no relationship to the debt left by the previous government?

As Kaye also points out if the debt is such a huge problem then why isn’t this government seeking revenue from those areas that will simply and significantly ease the debt without crashing the economy, yet it seeks to make cuts that will crash the economy?

These are things you won’t see answered by the RWNJ as obfuscation and diversion is the only thing they know.

As I’ve stated so many times before there is no more certain a sign a Liberal government or leader are failing miserably than to see the RWNJ coming in out of the blue attacking past Labor and unable to lucidly defend current Liberal.

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 10:34 am

Right on cue, Richard Denniss sums it up well…..

“When the economy was booming, John Howard and Kevin Rudd said they could afford to significantly cut taxes for the rich. Now that the economy is slowing, they say they have no choice but to cut spending on the poor. Welcome to Team Australia.

The economic survey of Australia, released by the OECD this week, shed stark light on the biased commentary dominating the debate about our nation’s finances. The OECD made clear that Australia is a low-taxing country spending far less than average on essential social services.

OECD data highlights that Australia’s rate of corporate tax is below average, our superannuation tax concessions are incredibly expensive and ineffective, and our unemployment benefits are incredibly stingy.

Of course, you wouldn’t know it from the media coverage of the OECD report, which somehow focused instead on the apparent need to cut income taxes on the wealthy and increase the GST.

There are alternatives. If the Abbott government collected the average taxes levied by other OECD countries, it would have an incredible $139 billion more revenue this year. If it only collected the average taxes levied by the Howard government, it would have collected an additional $22 billion. Instead, the government says Team Australia has a spending problem. The “fiscally responsible” thing to do, we are told, is to charge sick people to visit the doctor and cut investment in universities while charging students more to attend.

The argument for increasing the GST hasn’t got many friends but those in favour of it are loud and powerful. Business lobbyists love the GST for the simple reason that businesses don’t pay it. Owners of foreign companies love it because, by definition, their shareholders consume primarily outside of Australia.

While poor people paying more tax on food is considered fiscally responsible, asking rich people to pay more tax on their premium services is apparently not.

The best way to judge a politician is by their actions, not their words. Joe Hockey says he would do anything to reduce the budget deficit. Anything, that is, except collect more revenue. The Abbott Government doesn’t want to reduce the deficit. Like the Howard government before it, they just want to reduce taxes.

And when the cost of tax cuts takes its toll down the track? Team Australia just declares a “budget emergency” and cuts some spending on the poor.”

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/team-australias-mantra-in-times-of-trouble-tax-the-poor-20141219-12aggc.html

Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 10:37 am

A post of mine just disappeared.

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 10:56 am

I think I fixed it ME. It was caught in the spam filter for some reason

Michael TaylorDecember 20, 2014 at 11:13 am

I should have read Kaye’s comment before I went looking for it. Duh. 😳

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:18 am

Sorry Michael. That foray into the world of spam filter gives me some idea of how hard your job is :-S

John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:27 am

@Kaye Lee

Shouldn't …. Team Australia …. be "Team Australia" ?

After all it is an attribution of speech.

I hope "Neil" picks up on this and learns.

I think I'm getting the knack of this :

http://independentaustralia.net/wordpress-opt/wp-content/2013/03/My_work_here_is_done.jpg

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:34 am

John….the REAL Team Australia was trotted out in April. The rest of us are just spectators while running the sand bucket for them to kick goals

Tony Abbott paid a visit to China last April, accompanied by a record number of over 700 businessmen who together represented over half the value of the Australian stock exchange. Few realise that this was the first ‘outing’ of the REAL ‘Team Australia”.

“Five state premiers, along with 700 business leaders, including three billionaires are with the prime minister. The government has dubbed it “team Australia“.”

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-11/tony-abbott-arrives-in-shanghai-for-talks-with-chinese-president/5382584

John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:39 am

@Kaye Lee

So the reality is that commoners are only the "B Team Australia" …. or would that be the "Z Team Australia" ?

Is it possible to get a "Scholarship" to an "Academy" to help me lift my "game".

I trust "Neil" is taking in all these " ".

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:43 am

John,

Not sure about Academies but their are plenty of Forums that will most definitely advance your chance for selection – the North Sydney Forum, the Wentworth Forum, the Millenium Forum, the Warringah 1000 Forum

Speaking of the Warringah forum….

http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/tony-abbotts-election-campaign-funding.html

John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:52 am

@Kaye Lee

Shame on you !

You left out the "Uriah Heep" Sydney Institute.

Where nepotism appears to be one of the Institutes highest attributes.

Tax evasion appears to be on the curriculum as well ….. a handy thing for anyone who “aspires” to be on “Team Australia”.

Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:59 am

Institutes open up a whole new level. Why not start at the top with the IPA….add in some ANDEV for insurance.

John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 12:14 pm

@Kaye Lee

Being one of "Z Team Australia" I could only dream of aspiring to a "scholarship" to that august "Institution" the IPA.

The heights that that alumni have reached must make a gambler cheer.

I see the “revolutionary passerby” has arrived so I shall now have to go and read what he/she has to say ….. or hit the whiskey or gin bottle, decisions, decisions !

Neil of SydneyDecember 20, 2014 at 2:31 pm

“Neil you have really lost it. Look again, deficit, debt and unemployment growing.”

You just described the Rudd/Gillard govt

.”I seem to recall unemployment being nearer to 1% under Whitlam”

I guess ALP supporters believe what they want to believe. But Gough doubled the unemployment rate from 2% under the Coalition to 4% in no time flat. 4% may seem low but back in those days a unemployment rate of 4% was regarded as high.

It was Whitlam who set us on the road to high spending govt

When in power the ALP has never had any success in reducing the unemployment rate. It has never been lower at the end of their time in govt than what they were handed.

LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 3:14 pm

Looks like many don’t share your opinion Neil.

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/joe-hockey-the-worst-treasurer-in-40-years-opinion-poll-finds/story-fn59nsif-1227162450061?sv=70e0a967184cf7b5997ab16fe82f7a44#.VJTLDvb307Q.facebook

SalstaratDecember 20, 2014 at 7:23 pm

Neil, the HUGE difference between the myopic, gormless, mean spirited LNP and Labor under the inspirational leadership of Gough Whitlam was that Gough Whitlam returned the taxes and funds paid by Australians back TO ordinary Australians whereas the loathsome, fascist LNP take-take-take from ordinary people and only give it back to the top 1% of wealthiest corporate giants and billionaire miners in the country! You just don’t get it, do you Neil. My God, you are dumber than a box of rocks!

Neil, sadly, it is apparent that you are a typical member of the screaming lunatic fringe of Phony Abbott’s LYING, deceitful LNP, the most discredited, disgraced, internationally despised, condemned and scorned government in our history! Did you notice the loud, never ending BOOING of Abbott and the war mongering pariah, John Howard, by thousands and thousands of people outside The Town Hall at Whitlam’s memorial? Shows how much these despicable, inarticulate little rodents are HATED and LOATHED, not only throughout Australia but right around the world! Julia has been VINDICATED – received HUGE applause and a standing ovation!

Gough Whitlam was the greatest PM in our history and history has judged him so … he will be loved, admired and remembered in a way that NO LNP prime minister EVER will … especially the crawling political leper, Abbott! The smug, arrogant, swaggering baboon, Abbott, will go down in history as a vile little shit stain on the underpants of our political history! There has NEVER EVER been an LNP prime minister worth spitting on WHEREAS Labor is overflowing with highly respected prime ministers, academics and intellectuals. I won’t mention Kevin Rudd, because he is the one EXCEPTION – a nasty, ill tempered little right wing back stabber who did untold damage to the Labor Party … his vicious vindictiveness has more in common with the likes of the offensive effete Christopher Pyne! However, (notwithstanding Rudd) the Labor Party has been blessed with intelligent, compassionate leaders with great foresight like Billy Hughes, Ben Chifley, Bob Hawke, Paul Keating, Gough Whitlam and, yes, Julia Gillard who introduced more policies in a month than the ineffective, useless neoliberal, Abbott, managed in 14 months of disastrous, catastrophic mismanagement!

You will seriously regret your appalling lack of judgement at the last election, Neil, when you have to fork out $150,000 PLUS for your child’s university/tertiary fees, pay the 20% GST hike, fork out a fortune for massively increased oil, gas and electrical prices (where Abbott’s myopic tearing back of the sensible carbon pricing system has had ZERO impact outside rewarding the biggest, most avaricious POLLUTERS in our country). You will, one day, turn around and realise that the LNP have sold off EVERY SINGLE asset that Australian taxpayers once owned … all profits and jobs going overseas. The slowing down of our economy, the DOUBLING of our country’s DEFICIT under the hopelessly ineffective Sloppy Joe Hockey’s discredited EPIC FAILURE of an unfair, penny pinching budget, the inevitable disastrous rise in unemployment (especially among our X-Y Generation) and the ongoing ramped up terror campaigns this deceitful government are using as a distraction against the fascist undemocratic policies they are pushing through in the background! The horrific increase in government sponsored xenophobic racism and intolerance (under the psychopathic Scott Morrison and George Brandis), the introduction of the American biased TPP and Abbott’s realisation of the dreadful, inequitable neoliberal dream of Murdoch’s IPA … all these ghastly, destructive and regressive policies that Abbott has forced upon us!

Whitlam was a born LEADER, an instigator of policies that benefited Australians from all walks of life over many generations, intelligent, charismatic, creative, positive and constructive! Whitlam had a deep love for Australia and Australians WHEREAS … Abbott is a fricking WRECKING BALL – tearing things apart, de-funding, de-listing, annihilating! Abbott creates NOTHING, manufactures NOTHING, initiates NOTHING … will leave no legacy but destruction, pollution and chaos. Abbott doesn’t care about ANYTHING or ANYONE unless it has a big dollar parked in front of it! Profit, money and greed are the ONLY things that motivate, control and manipulate Abbott and his avaricious, morally bankrupt cabinet. The LNP are ready, willing and able to sacrifice EVERYTHING to feed their relentless rapacity! Abbott hasn’t achieved a single thing since he crawled across the electoral line on a platform of reprehensible LIES and broken promises! He is a mindless, gormless DESTROYER of everything we hold dear! Abbott is a British born, snivelling little elitist whose obsequious subservience to British snobbery and imperialism is evident in everything he says and does. He and his un-Australian cabinet have an offensive arrogant and sneering condescension for ordinary Australians and despise our egalitarian lifestyle.

The damage the knuckle dragging cretinous Troglodyte (Abbott) and his misanthropic, totally inept FASCIST government have done to Australia’s international reputation, our environment, our democracy, our egalitarian society, our free speech, our health and education systems (which were brilliantly innovated by Gough Whitlam), and our children’s future – will take DECADES to repair!

.. and THIS is the intellectual midget YOU voted in, Neil .. thanks for NOTHING! STUPID IS WHAT STUPID DOES!

Rob031December 21, 2014 at 5:15 am

@Salstarat. Now now. Don’t hold back. Say what you really think 🙂
Marevellous rant and well done – I’m not being sarcastic either!

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LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:04 am

It’s too bad that idiots like Christensen and Devine don’t understand irony. The entire LNP is making victims out of the entire nation at the hands of terrorism when quite clearly we are not victims.

There is also the failure to recognise that moderate Muslims were already being targeted by Australian bigots before the siege.

Comments on Christensen’s Farcebook page pointing out his failure to condemn all Christians for the horrific actions of one or a few are being deleted. Surprise, surprise!
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:17 am

Frank Drenth, executive director of the Corporate Tax Association, said the anti-avoidance provision and Labor’s pledge to abolish section 25-90 was “policy overreach”.

Robert Jeremenko, a senior tax counsel at the Tax Institute, said it found the proposed changes would “significantly increase complexity and compliance costs” for businesses.

Apparently the “complexity and compliance costs” for doctors to implement their own pay cut in a month’s time is irrelevant as are the “complexity and compliance costs” for Direct Action and PPL.
KerriDecember 18, 2014 at 11:27 am

While Hockey continues to simplistically liken the nations finances to the management of a household budget, has he considered that cutting off your guaranteed income before rolling out expenditures is not good housekeeping? His recent declaration to “spend,spend,spend” will see very few whose jobs are at risk, courtesy of his wisdom, make the same mistakes with their household income that he is making with the nations budget.
Slow Joe is way out of his depth any we should be scared. Very scared.
Unless, of course, your surname is Rinehart, Forrest or Murdoch!
Another good article Kaye Lee!
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:40 am

Wonder why I get the feeling that pressure is being put on Abbott to walk. seems to have lost all his bested friends. No one smiles near him. Most look relieved when they walk away. Maybe we will manage to have a good Christmas.
June M Bullivant OAMDecember 18, 2014 at 11:42 am

Hockey has an idea to kill the little bloke, Kill the Goose that lays the Golden egg comes to mind, does he realise that if the little bloke is not well, does not have a job and cannot afford to spend, then he will be out of a job.
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:42 am

Listening to Brandis ABC. even he does not seem to be speaking same language as Abbott. We have it this morning, that he was hung over in the interview with Kochie.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:42 am

Speaking of looking relieved when you TRY to walk away….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGMeXeFfZRw
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:46 am

GP saying they are expected to cope with freeze on rebates for six years. Yes, and PS wages to continue to fall. So will revenue from declining incomes. Cuts to welfare, including pensioners. recipe for disaster.
DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 11:50 am

Nigel no friends at the footy……..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mXndiKJyO0
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 11:57 am

<

Apparently everyone in the Abbott gang holds a License to shoot the poor, shoot the sick and shoot the unemployed.

These "Licenses" do not to exist on the N.S.W. Register …. but the AFP are looking into it.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 12:00 pm

Some more figures from MYEFO….

Debt is now expected to reach $499 billion by 2023‑24.

Tax receipts have been revised down $31.6 billion over the forward estimates ($6.2 billion in 2014‑15), and government payments have increased.

the weaker outlook for wages growth is expected to lead to lower taxes on individuals of $2.3 billion in 2014‑15 and $8.6 billion over the forward estimates.

Since the 2014‑15 Budget, economic parameters have also resulted in increased payments over the forward estimates. In particular:

•payments related to Family Tax Benefits are expected to increase by $3.2 billion over the forward estimates, largely reflecting the impact of lower than expected wage growth which is driving up average payment rates and recipient numbers;

•increased income support payments (an increase of $966 million over the forward estimates) reflecting updated benefit recipient numbers and average payments rates.

•Child Care Rebate and Benefit payments, which are demand driven, are expected to increase by $2.4 billion over the forward estimates, largely reflecting higher than expected utilisation of child care services, both in terms of the number of children in childcare and hours claimed, and higher than expected fees;

Hockey states “Were the Government to immediately react to offset these automatic variations in taxes and payments, largely arising from weaker national income growth, it would risk exacerbating the impact of these changes on the economy. The path of fiscal consolidation and policy settings will be considered comprehensively as part of the normal annual Budget process.”

Does he not realise these reduced receipts and increased payments are happening as unemployment increases and more people sink below the poverty line? Time for a rethink Joe!
DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 12:04 pm

I had my local doctors office ring me this morning out of the blue, wanting me to make an appointment for a Pap test for me because I aint had one in 5 years I said,” no why would I want to do that, according to dead beat Dutton we go to the docs eleven times a year, which was a lie as we know, if they want a price signal they have got one, its a sad day when our banks, our doctors and our universities are allowed to screw the people and the Gov allows them too, here’s my signal back to them all, no thanks I am right”,
she said back, “so you don’t want an appointment to see the doctor”,
I said nooooo thanks, the doc can go looking elsewhere for his medicare rebate before he loses it in January,
he can thank the Nazi Party in charge of the country for that little Xmas present they are giving the doctors oky” end of conversation..

And then a couple of hours later theres the OWL on TV saying the docs arnt happy with the new copayments,
well piss off Owler a little bit too little tooo late mate….
KeithDecember 18, 2014 at 12:26 pm

Straight after Labor’s win in Victoria Premier Elect Andrews was contacted by Abbott and he tried to get Premier Andrews to break a promise in relation to the East West link. Premier Andrews has released details about the project which show that a very poor cost benefit analysis/or lack of, was completed. The actual costs of the project were very scant.

Quote: The documents released by the Premier, Daniel Andrews, show the dangers and the rank stupidity of taking an uncritical approach to multi-billion dollar infrastructure investment decisions. Unquote

from: http://blogs.crikey.com.au/theurbanist/2014/12/17/what-can-we-learn-from-the-east-west-link-debacle/
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 12:28 pm

<

@Kaye Lee

You ain't seen nothing yet.

Queensland releases its own MYEFO today.

Sackings got to the post first though ….. update soon.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 12:31 pm

The report from the OECD said

“While supporting of the government’s plan to spend more on infrastructure, it said the projects approved must be backed with robust and transparent cost-benefit analysis, to ensure economic use of the existing stock and appropriate selection of new infrastructure projects.”

It also said….

“A Howard government decision to make most superannuation payouts tax free meant sizeable sums of public money were implicitly being spent in a way that largely benefited middle and upper income earners.”
townsvilleblogDecember 18, 2014 at 1:12 pm

Kaye, put simply their policies have been disastrous for the Australian AAA rated economy that they inherited we have rising unemployment and falling consumer confidence and we are riding the falling domino’s down to the lowest common denominator we need to rid ourselves of these disastrous policies State by State until we can topple the federal string pullers.
RoswellDecember 18, 2014 at 1:13 pm

Florence, you could have fooled me. I thought he was still drunk!
DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 1:15 pm
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 1:20 pm

<

Queenslands MYEFO

"Unemployment, currently the highest in mainland Australia, continues to plague the government and it seems unlikely it will reach its "stretch target" of 4 per cent by 2018, with unemployment for this financial year up a quarter to 6.15 per cent from the budget estimate."

Note that "stretch target" …… that is the new "aspire".

newman promised to get unemployment down to 4% ……. trouble is, just like his election promise to "lower the cost of living" ….. its is going in the opposite direction.

And thats after 3 years of being in government.

More to come :

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/queenslands-deficit-higher-and-growth-lower-than-predicted-20141218-129qmv.html
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 1:30 pm

“Kaye, put simply their policies have been disastrous for the Australian AAA rated economy “

We lost our AAA rating under hake/keating. We got our AAA rating back under Howard/Costello.
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 1:36 pm

More than that John Fraser it is after three years in government with the largest majority on record and no upper house to restrict it. Everything that’s happening in Queensland politically and under government control or influence is purely of Newman’s own making.

I contend that the only thing stopping Abbott going down the same failed path, or worse, is that Abbott has got a handbrake of sorts in those who oppose his madness and are able to do something to slow or stop the plunge downwards.
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 1:40 pm

Ignore the troll please, he will take you down the same old many times beaten path as a distraction on Abbott’s and other Liberal leader’s considerable failures.

Never fails. Whenever they are going woefully, which is so very often, the troll will step in with deliberate old rehashed distractions to derail the discussion. Don’t indulge him.
DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 1:40 pm

The knuckle dragging Neil is back, must be time to go and tend to my vegie garden and paint the house, mow the lawns, anything but put up with Neil the Neanderthal, harping back to the past, its the future we are focused on, and Neil just dosnt get that…..

The Libs need a diversion, so in come the clowns to troll AIMN and make a nuisance of themselves…..typical.
He is soooooo draining, like a broken record going round and round saying the same crap.
The wheels are falling off the LNP machine and everyone knows it, except Neil the dead beat from down under….
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 1:43 pm

The wheels are falling off the LNP machine and everyone knows it, except Neil…

Oh he knows they’re falling off big time, it’s why he’s suddenly here again after a hiatus. It’s the only time he shows up and there’s no surer sign of a Liberal party or conservative leader abysmally failing than Neil coming into a discussion to rehash the same stuff over again.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 1:49 pm

“Kaye, put simply their policies have been disastrous for the Australian AAA”

No, we lost our AAA rating under Hawke/Keating in the late 1980’s. Govt debt tripled under Hawke/Keating. It was not until Howard/Costello got govt debt below 5% of GDP that we got our AAA rating back.

That is something the ALP could never do

“The knuckle dragging Neil is back”

No. i have tried to post many times but i was banned. So i changed my email address a little bit so it looks like i am back. I guess Michael will try and ban my altered email address which is not my real email address.
DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 1:51 pm

“Where women glow and men plunder”
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 1:59 pm

<

@Neil of Sydney

Once again you are showing your complete lack of knowledge of technology.

Then again you are stupid ….. so no one here expects any better from you.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 2:02 pm

Neil,

I also have the power to remove any comment you make. If you have nothing of value to add then don’t bother. If you would like to discuss the points brought up in this article then I would welcome your opinion of the deficit blowout, the decision not to pursue corporate tax evasion, Direct Action, PPL, the GP co-payment, superannuation tax concessions etc.
AnomanderDecember 18, 2014 at 2:03 pm

Illridewithyou exists because normal people, rational with a conscience and brain function, are able to think and extrapolate effects from causality, unlike the short-termist sociopaths in the government and their cheer squad, who speak and act without thought of any consequences.

This is borne-out by the dishonourable member for stupidity George Christensen whose digestive tract works in reverse – he opens his mouth and shit pours out. I’d hate to see him eating.
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 2:13 pm

Lol Anomander.
Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 2:16 pm

Get the message, Neil. You are not welcome here.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 2:22 pm

I got the message since you banned me from posting.

But i cannot stand falsehoods without comment.

Like Townsvilleblog made

It took 6 surplus budget by Costello till we got our AAA rating back which we lost under the AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 2:33 pm

For goodness sake. Neil cannot stand falsehoods yet he allows hundreds of major ones go by against Labor by the MSM and the Liberals yet constantly and grindingly picks up on one that’s been rehashed so many times a brick wall would give up and collapse with the onslaught.

The only supposed falsehoods Neil can’t stand are those alleged ones against the Liberals and their woeful leaders, but he has no problems with major lies and deceits both against Labor and perpetrated by the Liberals.

He’s a hypocrite of the first order only here to derail the thread because Abbott and the State Libs, who are massively failing because of their lies and deceits, are being exposed, so he needs to come in and distract, which is what he’s always done and will always do.

As people seem unable to ignore him and he gets away with his gross hypocrisy, please just delete his posts the moment they appear.
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 2:35 pm

And John Howard’s father and grandfather were complicit in dodgy dealings in PNG 😉

Yes Neil, that’s right, it’s ancient history, like your crap. You wanna see how to lose (meaningless) AAA ratings – just leave the current mob in place for another term – they may even achieve it before the end of their current term.
TrevorDecember 18, 2014 at 2:46 pm

The tennis club I am a member of has a cabal of fairly right wing staunch liberal supporters. During the last few years I have had to put up with them bagging labor and specifically Julia in fairly harsh terms and they were over the moon when the government changed. This week during the normal after tennis beers, this group were all agreed that Tony can not win the next election and has to go because he is hopeless. They are now quite open in criticising Tony and his approach, their concern is who will replace him. If this is the discussion within this group I would be surprised if it is not the same topic across the board within liberal ranks. Not very scientific I know, but gives one a gut feel of how the Torys are thinking.

No wonder Tony is looking increasingly frantic.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 2:51 pm

“Yes Neil, that’s right, it’s ancient history, like your crap. You wanna see how to lose (meaningless) AAA ratings – just leave the current mob in place for another term – they may even achieve it before the end of their current term.”

I am surprised we havn’t already lost it. We are already at the debt levels (thanks to Rudd/Gillard) that we lost our AAA rating under Hawke/keating.

But you lot do not care. We have a sovereign currency so debt does not matter so we can live in leftie laa laa land and drink and be merry. Because we can always print money to get out of trouble.

By the way the person called townsvilleblog makes me sick.
cartoonmickDecember 18, 2014 at 2:56 pm

It has been a disastrous year or more for all the reasons mentioned here, and there is much more bad news to come.

Australia now seems devoid of any reasonable and statesman like pollies on either side. Tony Windsor was our last quality pollie.

I haven’t time to comment on all aspects covered here, but would just like to say their Direct Action plan is not a plan which will benefit our environment. It is designed to benefit Big Biz and not our environment.

Real specific details of effective action within this plan are hard to find, probably because they don’t exist.

And if your having trouble trying to understand their direct action plan, then this cartoon will give you a damn good clue . . . .

Editorial / Political

Cheers
Mick
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 2:56 pm

Hmm, so the meaningless credit rating is solely dependent on the level of debt Neil? Could you explain how that works? With examples from the real world? What is the supposed effect of lowered credit ratings? When will Joe lose our AAA ratings?
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 2:57 pm

Trevor I have a very staunch right wing boss who also bagged Gillard and detested Rudd, yet in his most atrocious utterances against them I have not heard anything worse than what he says about Abbott. His usual response whenever the topic of Abbott is raised is, “effing Abbott.”

Like your appraisal of the group you associate with if my boss, whose family has a long history of actively supporting and being members of the Liberal party, are openly lambasting Abbott then indeed he has reason to be frantic.
Gregory TDecember 18, 2014 at 2:59 pm

Such revolutionary logic, you would almost think that…. Ah Libspeak 101
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 3:00 pm

And yet again the same old deliberate distraction from Neil, almost word for word from ones he’s posted dozens of times before, and for the same reason, a lame diversion, nothing more.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 3:02 pm

“When will Joe lose our AAA ratings?”

Well i guess it will happen pretty soon. But according to what i read on this blog, debt does not matter so why do you care??
lindaDecember 18, 2014 at 3:17 pm

Shush everyone……The Lying Libs…..(The ones in the white coats) are on the way to collect Neil baby and take him back to the parallel universe he occasionally escapes from….never mind Neil it’ll be over very soon
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:22 pm

Answer the question Neil – What is the effect of losing those AAA ratings? Please explain 😀
eli nesDecember 18, 2014 at 3:24 pm

nothing wrong with trolls, as they give you a chance to laugh at their simple minded belief. Howard selling gold is worth a laugh and his lying has them shuffling or walking away but if there is some resilience.(not as rare as I thought because their belief is so ingrained) it is usually worthwhile to talk about wasted resources, excessive spending and the most profligate Australian prime minister in history john winston howard. A little laugh at costello bargain asset selling and his ‘please let me be pm’ whinging’ is worth it when he enters the fray.
SalstaratDecember 18, 2014 at 3:26 pm

The loathsome red neck, Z-rated hack, Miranda Devine, has been right on only ONE issue in her short thoroughly obnoxious career as a highly offensive, misinformed and thoroughly discredited journalist: yes, indeed, the concerned “lefties”, who defy the xenophobic racist bullshit that she and other NO-TALENT hacks in the garbage wrap Murdoch rags are, most definitely, infinitely SUPERIOR in every way to the flag waving, uneducated red neck BOGANS who are the last remaining Neanderthals who purchase the filthy Murdoch garbage wrap that cater specifically to their paranoia who, invariably, are massive DUMBED DOWN supporters of the despicable Abbott! Yes, I’m a LEFTIE and you bet, I’m proud of it! Miranda Devine, Bolt the Dolt, Alan Jones and the whole disgusting, internationally condemned and despised cabinet of the worst, most hated FASCIST government in our history, keep trying (and keep failing) to use ramped up terror, xenophobic racism, hatred, division and fear as a weak and criminal excuse to foster and encourage ongoing vilification, persecution, de-humanisation of vulnerable minorities which include moderate Muslims within our community, defenceless asylum seekers, the poor, the unemployed, the homeless, the mentally ill and the disabled. Miranda Devine is so consumed by intolerance and hate, it is a wonder this disgusting bitch can even stand to look at herself in the mirror!
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 3:29 pm

“Answer the question Neil – What is the effect of losing those AAA ratings?”

Well i guess we are about to find out.

The problem with Australian debt is that unlike other OECD countries we have to fund most of our debt from overseas.

Our interest bill at the moment is $1B/month and $700M of that (70%) goes to overseas investors.
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm

Please Bacchus don’t ask Neil to answer anything, you will just get the run around of the same non-answers he always gives. You are playing right into his diversion.
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:33 pm

You are always banging on about AAA credit ratings – it’s how you entered this thread. Please explain what it means if our credit ratings are downgraded. What effect does this have on the government or us?
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:35 pm

Bear with me Mö – let’s see if he will actually answer anything or as you say, continue with his obfuscation 😉
Möbius EckoDecember 18, 2014 at 3:38 pm

You could ask him if debt is so bad then why did Hockey more than double it to pay it off, adding $350 million to the interest bill. And why did he ask for an unlimited debt ceiling. If it were that serious he could have lowered the ceiling and thus forced the country to have less debt. After all Hockey attacked Swan when Swan lifted the ceiling.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 3:40 pm

It means we will be paying a higher interest rate on our debt and we are already paying the highest interest rates in the world. It means more money will be leaving the country. It will lead to a loss in investor confidence leading to higher unemployment.
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 3:51 pm

How do the credit ratings agencies rate Japan? The US? What are their debt levels like? What are their interest rates like? What happened to our interest rates as the Howard government reduced our gross debt and racked up surplus after surplus? What happened to our interest rates in 2008-09 during the GFC as debt went up? What’s happening to interest rates now that Joe has doubled our debt?

Maybe, just maybe Neil, you’ve been lied to over and over and over again by your heroes? Why would they do that to someone as loyal as you? 😆
stephentardrewDecember 18, 2014 at 3:58 pm

Makes ya proud to be an Australian Tea Party.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 4:02 pm

Bacchus

Those countries you mentioned can fund the majority of their debt from their own people. Furthermore they have vast overseas assets to cover their overseas debt (Toyota, Ford, Rolls Royce).

Even furthermore the interest rates on their debts are close to zero. Our debt is at approx 3% interest, way above everybody else.

And even furthermore we have to fund the majority of our debt from overseas investors (70%) unlike the countries you mentioned.
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 4:24 pm

<

@Neil of dumbsville

Santa wont leave you are present ….. if you don't piss off.
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 4:29 pm

You’re obfuscating again Neil 😉

You’ve just proved your assertion that “we will be paying a higher interest rate on our debt” wrong. What else are they lying to you about? Actually an easier question would be what are they not lying to you about 😆

Seeing as you like history so much – remember the “boom years” of the 50s, 60s and 70s? Mostly under Menzies, but all under the Liberals, we ran deficits from 1950 to 1971? (Labor had a surplus under Chifley in 1949 – the next surplus was in 1972 under Whitlam). How come those were “boom years” if we ran nothing but deficit budgets? If deficits are such a bad thing, how can this be, and how come Joe Hockey removed the debt ceiling, doubled the debt, and is now increasing the deficit year on year?

Why did interest rates increase so much while Howard/Costello were running surplus budgets?

Are your eyes starting to open yet?
cartoonmickDecember 18, 2014 at 4:48 pm

Loving this clean interaction between the Loan Ranger (Neil) and those who find his arguments hollow.

ps. don’t mention the climate change . . . . .
stephentardrewDecember 18, 2014 at 4:54 pm

Now Bacchus you are doing it again. You know that logic history thing. Empirical evidence? Now that is not worth a snivel.
Causal connectivity? What the hell is that I mean why, when you can make it all up and impose your unsupportable opinion onto facts, would there be a problem.

Neil is an ideologue no more need be said.

Rigid, inflexible, dogmatist.

Yawn.
Andre PoublonDecember 18, 2014 at 5:11 pm

The good thing about Abbot is that he will ensure that the myth that the Liberals are better economic managers will be well and truly scuppered. The beauty of it is that they will find it hard to change their leader because they lambasted the other side for not being able to govern themselves. Talk about being hoist by your own retard.
I will also admit to a bit of schadenfreude at watching the right wing commentariat eat itself.
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 5:19 pm

😆 @ stephentardrew 4:54 pm
BacchusDecember 18, 2014 at 5:23 pm

Interesting that the new political party, “Australian Progressives” seem to be embracing MMT. Two posts on facebook so far today.
guestDecember 18, 2014 at 5:24 pm

Neil of Sydney follows a certain pattern, which is to cherry-pick points of argument but ignore the context.

So we yet the argument from the Right that there is no AGW because the IPCC did not predict a “pause” in global warming, for which the IPCC has plausible explanations but the deniers do not.

Or that Gillard “lied” when she said there would be no Carbon Tax – but she would put a price on carbon (ie, Labor policy).

They say that Labor was “wasteful” and “incompetent” and caused a “great big debt”, ignoring the fact that Labor maintained AAA ratings from 3 agencies (no matter which government gained them before Labor came to power) and had the 3rd lowest debt among OECD countries – and the “Great Big Debt”, if it occurs, is still 10 years away.

Meanwhile, the Coalition has added considerably to the debt and seems to have no coherent plan to achieve a surplus any time soon.
.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 5:26 pm

Just wondering how Neil feels about us using public money to subsidise foreign owned mining companies who send more than 80% of their profits overseas.

I have also given you four hours to say something that is in any way related to this article Neil. If you cannot drag yourself out of the past and into the present then you will be consigned to history here.
LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 5:28 pm

“Interesting that the new political party, “Australian Progressives” seem to be embracing MMT. Two posts on facebook so far today.”

It is refreshing to see. I’m watching them with great interest.
Jennifer GrayDecember 18, 2014 at 5:48 pm

Something very dreadful must have happened to Miranda Divine as a child. She was nasty in her 20s, bitter and mean in her 30s and a true hater in her 40s.
RoswellDecember 18, 2014 at 6:12 pm

It’s dissppointing to see Neil of Sydney has returned. I hope admin dispenses with him soon.
atkenosDecember 18, 2014 at 6:25 pm

Abbott and Hockey are economic traitors to our nation
DragonboneTorDecember 18, 2014 at 6:25 pm

Why do we have to fund debt from overseas? Is it because we don’t have a manufacturing industry. It’s a genuine question and I would like to know how it works and what’s different about other OECD countries.
Matters NotDecember 18, 2014 at 6:38 pm

Quiggan on MMT. Read the comments section as well.

MMT and Russia

” sum up, while MMT provides a different and sometimes useful way of looking at the interaction between monetary and fiscal policy, it doesn’t change the basic equation that, in the long run, public expenditure is paid for by taxes.”

At least there is a discussion under way.
SalstaratDecember 18, 2014 at 6:53 pm

Neil, do you really want to know which government the IMF identified as the worst, most wasteful spendthrift government in Australia’s history? Probably not because it was the useless Lying Rodent, John Howard’s government! This is an absolute FACT … and, yes, I know that the three things that terrify DUMBED DOWN obsequious Murdoch manipulated BOGANS like you are: TRUTH, COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC!

The disreputable Howard government holds the notorious dubious “honour” of being the MOST SPENDTHRIFT, WASTEFUL GOVERNMENT IN OUR HISTORY! It is on record that up until now, JOHN HOWARD was recognised as the most spendthrift, wasteful PM who pissed away countless BILLIONS of Australian taxpayer funds, at the beginning of a mining boom, on the senseless Iraqi war that was a direct cause of the current ISIL tragedy! Neither Howard nor Abbott have EVER been made to account for the TOTAL AMOUNT OF MONEY the senseless Iraqi war has cost us and which is STILL COSTING US!

Now we have two of the biggest idiots to have ever disgraced our front cabinet, Abbott and Hockey, spending money like DRUNKEN SAILORS … BILLIONS and BILLIONS of hard earned taxpayer dollars on nonsensical commissions, needless Inquiries targeting anyone and everyone that oppose their fascist, neoliberal views or threatens to expose the LNPs relentless, nefarious corruption. In addition, the funds that the vindictive despicable Abbott is throwing away on vile campaigns of RAMPED UP TERROR, racist paranoia and needless xenophobic hysteria in order to divert attention away from the LNPs total failure as a credible government, is absolutely unforgivable!

Obviously Howard and Abbott fell out of the STUPID TREE and hit every bloody branch on the way down! Under the hopelessly inept, moronic Hockey, whose tenure as the WORST Treasurer in our history has been confirmed by respected international bodies like the IMF and Nobel prize winning economists, Australia’s debt has DOUBLED … yes, DOUBLED … and that is a fact! Hockey’s pathetic EPIC FAILURE of a mean spirited, penny pinching budget combined with the LNPs disgraceful wasteful extravagance, is regressive and has caused Australia’s business confidence to drop, unemployment in the 18-27 age group to double. Our economy is now falling faster than Gina Rinehart can drop without a parachute!

Everyone talks about the BILLIONS and BILLIONS of dollars this depraved government is spending WITHOUT realising just HOW MUCH a BILLION DOLLARS is! It’s a HELL of a lot of money. Enough to feed and clothe an African nation, enough to provide our children and grandchildren with government subsidised tertiary education for DECADES, enough to cover YEARS of research by scientists into finding a vaccine for the Ebola crisis that this heartless government haven’t got the GUTS to address when every other country in the western world is doing so!

Howard’s megalomaniacal narcissism never ceases. This dreadful political pariah who history will judge as the most ruthless war criminal in Australia’s history, is STILL costing Australian taxpayers TWICE AS MUCH as any other RETIRED PM in Australia’s history. This vile little parasite is sucking up as much Australian taxpayers on his self entitled retirement as he can get … just like Abbott, Howard is up to his red neck in self seeking entitlement until the day he drops dead! I only hope they NEVER give this criminal a State funeral because I will be there to spit on his coffin … he is a disgusting loathsome neoliberal fascist, just like his father. Howard’s father was a signed up member of the lunatic fringe dwelling notorious fascist group, the New Guard who sought to bring down the democratically elected State Labor government under Jack Lang! As we all know, the acorn NEVER falls far from the tree, so it was NEVER going to turn out well under the fascist Howard and Howard is the discredited mentor to the crawling, obsequious arse licker, Abbott!

The totally unconscionable Abbott/Hockey/Cormann are tossing away BILLIONS of hard earned taxpayer dollars on their own self interest. Spending OUR money without a moment’s thought for our children’s future! Vandalising our environment, forcing Australian citizens to face massive pollution by fostering a filthy, toxic COAL INDUSTRY that the rest of the world DESPISES. Head-in-the-sand attitudes to the inevitability of horrific climate change and absolutely destroying Australia’s once fine international reputation! Under Abbott’s psychopathic mismanagement, this country has now become a pig ignorant, selfish, mean spirited, racist, complacent, polluting backwater … internationally scorned and condemned. How far we have fallen since the enlightened Whitlam. The real tragedy is that despite all the loathsome LIES, the broken promises, the lack of transparency, the blatant corruption undertaken on a daily basis by the WORST government in our history, there are STILL intellectual midgets out there like Neil who are so manipulated, so stupid, they STILL try (and fail) to defend the indefensible. Dumbed down to catatonic idiocy! You just want to grab them and SHAKE some sense into them … but you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear!
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 8:35 pm

“RBA $8.8 billion (classed as foregone dividends)”

Actually this loan to the Reserve Bank has not cost the country anything. Since the money was borrowed we will have to pay interest on the loan. But the money was given to the Reserve Bank. They will most probably put it in the bank and earn interest on the money.

Interest on loan = interest on the deposited money

Net cost to Australia= zero.

However if the RBA uses the money they may make some money or they may lose some money.
Erotic MoustacheDecember 18, 2014 at 8:39 pm

Neil,

Please re-read your post but take some anti-head explosion pills beforehand. I mean, what the hell was that?
LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 8:40 pm

Quiggin states that proponents of MMT believe taxation is not needed to finance public expenditure. This isn’t true. Income tax is not needed. Other forms of tax (e.g. GST) are used to finance public expenditure. I think that’s really sloppy for a person in his position.

One of the commenters posted:
“People could easily accrue tax obligations as negative values in their account or ledger before positive values are credited. That is to say, taxation could start before government spending. The New Pacifica government might decide (somewhat unwisely perhaps) to have a poll tax or a window tax and levy it up front at the start of each financial year. Thus they could levy this tax first in year zero and negatively credit every potential taxpayer’s account. Now New Pacifica has positive numbers on its government budget balance sheet and can start spending. You could do it either way, it doesn’t matter.”

MMT states that income has to be received before income tax is payable. A poll tax or a window tax is not income tax. These taxes are no different to, say, our emergency services levy. It’s the same for everyone regardless of income.

If the government relies on income tax for funding public expenditure, why are they slashing 1200 or so staff from the taxation office and doing nothing about making the wealthiest people in the nation pay their fair share of tax? They’re obsessed with getting that budget into a surplus asap. There’s no way they would be ignoring all that revenue if it really did pay for something, regardless of who their mates are. It’s more important for them to remain in government.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 8:56 pm

I was trying to make a post related to the article since that is what i was told.

The $8.8B loan to the RBA was mentioned in the article.

This loan costs the budget $300M/year in interest but costs the country nothing since the RBA will put the money in the bank and most probably get $300M/year in interest.
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 9:18 pm

<

Uh oh !

Neil of stupidsville is having a fight with the pornographic "Miniscule Erotic Moustache".

2 nuts at 20 paces ……. and absolutely nothing between them.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 9:51 pm

Neil,

Hockey berated Wayne Swan for taking out $500 million in dividends from the RBA and that was his excuse for topping them up with $9 billion. He then proceeded to take out $1.2 billion in dividends himself.

The ONLY reason he gave that money to the RBA was to make the deficit look as big as he could and then hope that the Aussie dollar went down. It was a cynical exercise in political manipulation of figures and a gamble with our money on the forex.

And thank you for at least having a go at talking about THIS government.

BTW we don’t borrow money – we issue bonds that investors want to buy.

I bet Hockey wishes he had that $8.8 billion back again. I assume he will take it in dividends and expect us not to notice. A year after giving it to them he has already taken 13.6% of it back again. He really must think we are stupid.
John FraserDecember 18, 2014 at 10:07 pm

<

I bet Hockey wishes he had another job.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 10:15 pm

I bet his wish comes true 🙂
Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 10:19 pm

Who else would have him?
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 10:21 pm

“The ONLY reason he gave that money to the RBA was to make the deficit look as big as he could “

Well that is what you want to believe. Swan was asked not to take out any RBA dividends but he did it anyway

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-10-24/mckibbin-accuses-swan-of-economic-vandalism/5044474

“Warwick McKibbin fired the broadside at Mr Swan, accusing the former treasurer of being reckless with the central bank’s reserve fund………………..The treasurer was requested not to extract that from the balance sheet of the bank.

“He ignored that request and took $500 million so that he could reach the budget surplus in 2012-13.

“That to me is economic vandalism. It wasn’t that he may not have been asked to put more money in, but he was certainly asked not to take money out……………….RBA governor Glenn Stevens appeared before an inquiry earlier this year. He confirmed he wrote to Mr Swan asking that all the bank’s profit be retained to replenish the fund.

“My preference was, and this was expressed, that I’d like to retain the whole 1,096 (million dollars) to build up the Reserve Bank reserve fund, but he did not agree with that,” Mr Stevens told the inquiry..”
DanDarkDecember 18, 2014 at 10:24 pm

“Who else would have him?”
The Zoo would be the only place left, he would fit in with all the other flying monkeys
and the kids could throw him peanuts, mmmmmm Karma 🙂
Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 10:32 pm

Oh do shut up, Neil.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 11:11 pm

Michael

Merry Christmas to you as well.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:11 pm

So how do you feel about Hockey taking out $1.2 billion in dividends?
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:13 pm

I must say, Neil is brave putting his head up at this time.

As for tis government being obsessed with getting the budget into surplus could not be further from the truth. They have no interest in the economy

They are about cutting government services and lowering personal and company taxes.

Yes small or none existing government and as little tax as possible. For industry and wealthy that is.

They have no problem with levy etc. Are into user pay.
Matters NotDecember 18, 2014 at 11:18 pm

Lee December 18, 2014 at 8:40 pm asserted:

Quiggin states that proponents of MMT believe taxation is not needed to finance public expenditure. This isn’t true. Income tax is not needed. Other forms of tax (e.g. GST) are used to finance public expenditure. I think that’s really sloppy for a person in his position.

While I think that MMT has much to offer, I’m not convinced that those who adhere to the MMT view of the world have ‘clinched’ the argument in any absolute sense. But I’m not surprised. Indeed if they argued otherwise, then I would be surprised. And disappointed

If I can step back a little and raise questions re ‘epistemological’ truth. Briefly, given our (cultural) ‘common sense’, ‘truth’ (in any absolute sense) is actually confined to ‘logic’ or ‘mathematics’. ‘Science’ doesn’t claim to be ‘truthful’. On a good day, science advances arguments based on ‘probabilities’, accompanied by ‘degrees of confidence’. BTW, I am not dismissing the importance of same.

Nevertheless, when it comes to the ‘social sciences’, and for good or bad, economics, including MMT, must fall into the category where ‘degrees of confidence’ are much more speculative.

To cite a ‘theory’ as a ‘proof’ when it’s the ‘theory’ itself that’s under question, might not be the best way to proceed.

But perhaps not?

Be interested in any responses to my ‘theory’.
Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 11:22 pm

Merry Christmas to you too, Neil. Now go away.
Neil of SydneyDecember 18, 2014 at 11:28 pm

“So how do you feel about Hockey taking out $1.2 billion in dividends?”

Assuming what you say is correct, i guess it is not a problem anymore. RBA reserves had been depleted to $2B under Swan. The RBA like to have them at $10B. With the $8.8B loan the reserves are back to normal levels.

The RBA makes money so their reserves would still be at $10B where they would like them.

“I must say, Neil is brave putting his head up at this time.”

Actually i have tried to post many times but i was banned. I made a single letter change to my email address and it looks like i can make comments.
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:31 pm

Slow wage growth is adding to childcare blowout.
Michael TaylorDecember 18, 2014 at 11:32 pm

No, you weren’t banned, Neil. Your comments were set to ‘moderation’, however we have had huge problems with the system which meant that your comments couldn’t be released.

But any more crap out of you . . .
LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:34 pm

“To cite a ‘theory’ as a ‘proof’ when it’s the ‘theory’ itself that’s under question, might not be the best way to proceed.”

I think that criticising something by constructing a straw man might not be the best way to proceed either. 😉 (Not you, but the link you shared)
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:35 pm

I think it was Gittens, that said Hockey’s action 8.8 billion was a con. A nasty one at that.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:41 pm

Economics is a matter of priorities. Our Governments have no trouble finding money to fund their priorities. After that it’s up to the accountants to present the figures in the way that makes you look good and the other guy look bad.

Tony has the money to pay for Direct Action and OSB and PPL and security forces and gifts to Cadbury, Manly Sea Eagles (in his electorate) and Murdoch’s Broncos. He has the money for jet fighters and submarines and drones and bomb proof cars and bigger VIP jets for his entourage. He has the money to pay Tim Wilson and Sophie Mirabella and Maurice Newman and Amanda Vanstone and Dick Warburton. He has the money to spend $150,000 to move a table. He has the money to live at Kirribilli House and commute to his place of work in Canberra.

Whatever theory you want to call it, both sides find money for what they want. One side spends it on wars and mining, the other on health, education and the environment.
Florence nee FedupDecember 18, 2014 at 11:56 pm

Neil. you are clever. Tip. If you want to remain, take a look at your behaviour. Otherwise I suspect you will disappear again.
Kaye LeeDecember 18, 2014 at 11:59 pm

I hate myself for this but….here’s one for Neil

Under the Howard Coalition government, the RBA paid a total of $20.2 billion in dividends. This was $1.83 billion a year. In today’s dollar terms, the total amount paid by the RBA was in excess of $30 billion or almost $3 billion per annum.

Under Labor, the RBA paid a total of $7.9 billion in dividends or around $1.3 billion a year, on average. In today’s dollar terms, this total approximately $9 billion or an average of around $1.5 billion per annum. In the last three Labor budgets, the average dividend was a tiny $410 million a year.

In other words, Treasurer Peter Costello ‘raided’ the RBA, using Hockey’s language, to the tune of $3 billion a year in today’s dollar terms for every year in 11 years, while Treasurer Swan (and then briefly Chis Bowen) ‘raided’ $1.5 billion per year for six years.

Had Costello trimmed his demand for RBA cash by even $1 billion a year in today’s terms, the amount of reserves at the RBA would have been extremely high right now and would have remained elevated during the global financial crisis.
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 12:31 am

Even if you are correct it most probably was not a problem.

But you people as usual are being deceitful. You continually claim and give references that the RBA did not need the loan and did not ask for it. Even if true the RBA DID ask that no money be taken out.

SABRA LANE: The last two treasurers say the RBA never asked them to boost the bank’s reserve fund. Mr Swan says if the request had been made to him, it would have been granted.

WARWICK MCKIBBIN: This, to me, is really a very bizarre statement, because when I was on the board, 2011 – I finished July, 2011 – we made a very large loss because of the very high Australian dollar. The following year after I’d left, there was a small profit of over a billion. The Treasurer was requested not to extract that from the balance sheet of the bank. He ignored that request and took half a billion dollars so that he could reach the budget surplus in ’12-’13. Now that, to me, is economic vandalism. It wasn’t that he may not have been asked to put more money in, but he was certainly asked not to take money out…………

SABRA LANE: The governor confirmed he wrote to Mr Swan asking that all the bank’s profits be retained to replenish the fund.

GLENN STEVENS (Feb. 22): My preference was, and this was expressed, that I’d like to retain the whole $1,096, I think it was, to build up the Reserve Bank reserve fund, but he did not agree with that.

You govern for the times. The RBA asked Swan not to take money out.
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 12:43 am

Yoo Hoo Neil we have a despicable government willing to make its poorest citizens suffer, ignores science, which only a fool would do, denies global warming and you just want to waffle on about the past. Nothing will save us unless we kick this mob of scientific and economic illiterates out. Debt is increasing while revenues decline. Are you so naive as to be blind to the facts. Lets blame Swan. Seen the polls lately? The people don’t believe you.

Do us a favor and go away.
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 1:04 am

You must be talking about the Rudd/Gillard govt which created all this mess.

It is hard to put humpty dumpty back together.
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 1:25 am

Do catch up Neil. Joe already let the cat out of the bag – there is no mess. That was just BS rhetoric to get elected.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/26/hockey-tells-kiwis-there-no-economic-crisis-australia
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 1:28 am

Have you worked out yet why Liberal governments running deficit budgets for 21 years straight was a good thing? 😉
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 8:36 am

“You govern for the times. ”

Yes Neil. So now will you acknowledge that when the GFC hit the most important thing was to keep people employed. This is a lesson that Hockey has not learned which is why we are going backwards at a fearsome rate. Refusing to help the manufacturing industry that was suffering because of the high dollar caused by the mining industry, slashing the public service, reducing the disposable income for low income earners, cutting government spending – these are all false savings as revenue falls and welfare payments increase. Are you any closer to understanding the benefits of stimulus spending?
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 9:37 am

“Do catch up Neil. Joe already let the cat out of the bag – there is no mess.”

Comments like that are so wrong.

Firstly as Treasurer Hockey has to be careful what he says. He has to be diplomatic.

Secondly he is correct. The economy is OK. Not great but OK. But the budget is trashed and a trashed budget will eventually lead to a trashed economy.

You fix the hole in the roof before it rains not after it starts raining.
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 9:39 am

“Are you any closer to understanding the benefits of stimulus spending?”

Obviously not! 🙄
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 9:42 am

Let’s fix the hole in the roof by stopping superannuation tax concessions (MYEFO shows that this year alone the concessions are worth $36.25 billion) and fossil fuel subsidies. Let’s bring back the carbon price and the MRRT.

There……done.

PS If they had the balls to tackle corporate tax avoidance we would have plenty of money for frivolities like health, education, pensions and foreign aid.

PPS Still NO mention of MYEFO on Abbott’s facebook page. So much for “selling the message.”
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 9:44 am

If the budget is trashed, why is Hockey doing everything to make it worse? As Florence nee Fedup mentioned elsewhere, it’s pure unadulterated ideology with absolutely no thought of “governing for the times.”

The reverse Robin Hood ideology of these dolts leads to recession, greater deficits, more social dislocation, small business failures, suicides. What they’re trashing isn’t just the budget, it’s OUR society!
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 10:06 am

It would be a very interesting exercise to see what the budget bottom line would be now if we had continued with Labor policies. The $28.6 billion in foregone revenue is just the tip of the iceberg. Can we PLEASE cancel those 58 extra fighter jets?
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 10:08 am

Neil that has to be your most desperate attempt yet.

Diplomacy bullshit.

What moron would contradict himself in such a blatant and obvious manner. Heard of diplomatic ties whereby thoughts are made evident to other nations through safe channels. Diplomacy is not blabbing the truth out to the media. You really do think we are fools.

The guy is a thundering idiot and your argument the last gasp of a dying and discredited ideologue.
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 10:13 am

The Kouk did the numbers from a spending perspective. As you say Kaye, it would be interesting to add foregone revenue to the equation.
John FraserDecember 19, 2014 at 10:20 am

<

" The poorest people either don't have cars or actually don't drive very far in many cases". … Hockey.

On one of his journeys to insult "Neil of stupidsville" and his ilk.

But as has been displayed here on countless occasions (this one included) "Neil of stupidsville" cannot be insulted.
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 10:32 am

HT to Australian Progressives for this one.

A Big Safety Net and Strong Job Market Can Coexist. Just Ask Scandinavia.

Some of the highest employment rates in the advanced world are in places with the highest taxes and most generous welfare systems, namely Scandinavian countries. The United States and many other nations with relatively low taxes and a smaller social safety net actually have substantially lower rates of employment.

Exactly the opposite of what Joe Hockey is attempting to do here. Why is unemployment and your debt & deficit increasing Joe?
Michael TaylorDecember 19, 2014 at 10:46 am

Neil, I see you’re testing everyone’s patience.
SalstaratDecember 19, 2014 at 10:50 am

Neil, I don’t know how many times LNP minions need to be told that the Rudd/Gillard government managed to steer Australia through one of the biggest international economic downturns in history .. the GFC. As a result, Wayne Swan received international awards and praise as the world’s greatest treasurer due to his highly successful Stimulus Package which did something that Hockey is completely incapable of doing, instilling confidence and encouraging growth and public spending back into the economy. How many times do you LNP sycophants need to be told that AUSTERITY BUDGETS do NOT work. They have NEVER worked and will NEVER work … Austerity Budgets have failed spectacularly around the world and they are doomed to fail again. Sadly, the complete idiots at the helm of the LNP (that would be Hockey and Cormann) are CLUELESS and totally incapable of learning from their own mistakes and the mistakes of others! When you keep repeating the same old mistakes, Neil, guess what happens? You get the same old FAILED results.

What do we have now under Slow Joe in-the-hock Hockey? Debt has increased by 13.7% over Labor’s levels. … and Hockey had more than doubled the projected budget deficits over Labor’s levels. Small businesses are shutting down at a startling rate; unemployment (particularly in the 18-26 year group) has risen alarmingly and long-term unemployment is a growing problem for Australia with about 500,000 people receiving Newstart Allowance for more than a year, a figure that has almost doubled since the global financial crisis. Young people CANNOT hope to find jobs when there are NO JOBS to be found .. Hockey just doesn’t get it! When you have a penny pinching, austerity budget this is what happens, Neil:

ECONOMY SLOWS DOWN = people get worried/scared = people lose confidence = people stop spending = small businesses close down = more people lose jobs = economy keeps slowing down = people reduce their spending further = down, down, down = RECESSION

I know most LNP minions are not the sharpest tools in the shed, but even someone with the most rudimentary understanding of economics can understand the devastating long-term social consequences of austerity budgets and Joe Hockey’s catastrophic budget will spell D-I-S-A-S-T-E-R for our economy. The horrific consequences Hockey’s budget will have on the future of our children will take decades to repair. No wonder the IMF have stated that Hockey is the WORST Treasurer in Australia’s history!

Get it? 🙄
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 11:10 am

“Austerity Budgets have failed spectacularly around the world and they are doomed to fail again”

You got that the wrong way around.

Socialist govts around the world have trashed budgets and economies. People then elect Conservatives to clean up the mess.

Best to not trash the budget in the first place then austerity would not be needed.

What happened under Rudd/Gillard was always going to happen. All the GFC did was speed up the inevitable journey to the trashed budget which always happens under the ALP.

It always happens because ALP supporters think that debt is not a problem and money grows on trees.
LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 11:26 am

Bwahahaha Neil!

http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=29678

Read it and weep.
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 12:22 pm

Thanks Lee great post. Bill does it again.
SalstaratDecember 19, 2014 at 1:04 pm

The DEBT IS NOT THE PROBLEM, Neil …. the SOURCE OF FUNDING IS THE PROBLEM! Every time the LNP has come to power, Australia’s economy has SLUMPED … have you ever wondered why? It is because AUSTERITY kills incentive, confidence and economic stimulation … it just isn’t possible you can be so stupid as not to understand that, Neil, is it? Mmmmm, I guess anything is possible. Are you completely DEAF, DUMB and BLIND as to what is going on around you? The economy is now in TATTERS, Neil … have a good-long-look. You don’t make any comment about the fact that the deficit has DOUBLED under Hockey, UNEMPLOYMENT has doubled, CONFIDENCE has DROPPED and our economy is slowing down to a level not seen since the last LNP government stuffed everything up!

Like most LNP sycophants, you are ONLY concerned by debt and deficit and NOT about the future educational opportunities of our children, nor the fact that Christopher Pyne is STILL pushing to put tertiary education out of reach of working class Australians, not the slightest bit concerned about the horrific torture and even murder of innocent defenceless asylum seekers under the malevolent callous disregard of the psychopath, Scott Murderson; you are prepared to overlook and condone the non-stop LIE after LIE after LIE of the unconscionable Abbott regime yet still point a finger at ONE statement made by Julia Gillard which was NOT a lie at the time she said it; you are prepared to forgive and forget Abbott’s endless and growing list of BROKEN PROMISES and the fact that he has not achieved ONE SINGLE THING in 14 months of catastrophic rule … NOT .. ONE .. SINGLE .. THING that benefits ANYONE outside of billionaire corporate predators and self seeking mining magnets!

OK, you have pinned your star to the worst fascist government to have EVER crawled across the electoral line on a staggering platform of deceit. This makes you an absolute FOOL, Neil! A mindless, manipulated fool willing to believe EVERY bald faced lie spoon fed to you by the worst corporate predator in the world, that would be Murdoch! Even the most conservative people I know who originally were stupid enough to vote for the LNP have NOW REALISED that the neoliberal, ultra right wing fascists, Abbott and Hockey are just to stupid and far too dangerous to be left out and about without supervision. Only the most dumbed down, gormless, red neck crawling morons are cheering Abbott and Hockey on now; Only the most mindless, ill informed sycophants cheer on the “Duh Duh Duh T-t-t-teeeeam Austrayleeeya” now – would that be YOU, Neil? Are you really a signed up screaming sycophant to the meaningless three word slogans?

The SOURCE of funding is the PROBLEM! Instead of vilifying the poor, the unemployed and hitting the most vulnerable people in the pocket over and over and over again …. BRING BACK THE MINING TAX AND DOUBLE IT! The miners are going from billionaires to TRILLIONAIRES and not one cent of it is staying in this country, get it? The mining industry only employs less than 1.8% of the total working population of Australia yet is taking the MASSIVE SHARE of profits. Profits and jobs are now going to be sent over to China when Abbot’s dumbed down pact with China comes into effect. Mining companies need to pay at least 40% of their profits BACK INTO AUSTRALIA because the RESOURCES belong to ALL OF US … get it? ALL OF US! The miners MUST face the consequence of their endless rapacity — their horrific pollution of our rivers, the soil erosion to so many farmers’lands, the devastating environmental damage to our world heritage listed sites like the dumping of soil waste on our GREAT BARRIER REEF … how does THAT sit with your sensibilities, Neil? Oh, I forgot, you people don’t worry about other people or our environment … it is ALL about the debt and the deficit, eh? Whitlam got the balance right …. a GOOD government rules FOR the people (NOT for billionaire miners and corporate predators); a GOOD government CARES about its most vulnerable citizens; a GOOD government is only as GOOD as how it treats and respects its poorest citizens; a GOOD government places high priority on our children’s future NOT on the unending rapacity of huge multinational corporations who seek to rape and plunder our land without consequence!

The SOURCE of funding is the PROBLEM! If the budget was in such DIRE straights as Hockey will want you to believe, why did they allow the marauding Murdoch get away with a $900 Million tax refund gift, Neil … WHY???? Why are people on the lowest incomes expected to FUND MURDOCH? WHY??? Why are billionaire multinational companies NOT PAYING THEIR WAY. The top 1% are Abbott’s protected CRONIES and the rest of Australia are going to pay and pay and pay. Does that seem fair to you, Neil? Are you earning in excess of $300,000 per annum? No? Then, guess what, YOU (yes YOU) are right in the centre of Abbott and Hockey’s TARGET because, as far as Hockey is concerned, ANYONE not earning more than $1 Million per annum is a worthless, non performing, LEANER! The sneering condescending SCORN that this despised, malevolent pack of sociopaths has for ordinary Australians is absolutely disgusting. Their reprehensible personal self entitlement and ongoing corruption is beyond evil. Malcolm Fraser was so RIGHT about one thing: Abbott is the most dangerous PM Australia has EVER had! There is a TSUNAMI of hatred out there for the Abbott/Hockey government, Neil … watching them losing State elections is like watching a deck of cards going down – this puts people like YOU in the overwhelming MINORITY, Neil. Thank God for that!
LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 1:15 pm

The budget is rooted. The wealthiest people in the country are not paying any income tax, yet the Abbott government wants to rid the taxation office of 1200+ employees. That fact alone should tell Neil that the government is lying.
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 1:24 pm

Neil is the sort that would sell the house to pay off the mortgage and then sell your business to pay the monthly accounts and then sell all your assets to buy the month’s groceries.

We have no debt but we also have nowhere to live, no income, and after a month, no food.

In March, Rinehart’s mining group, Hancock Prospecting, signed off on a $US7.2 billion debt package for her highly anticipated Roy Hill iron ore project in Western Australia’s Pilbara region.

Why would she do that?

Government spending is an investment in the future Neil, unless of course it is wasted on wars and weapons and orange life rafts and offshore concentration camps and bribes to corrupt officials and polluters and lavish dinners for billionaires and tax concessions for the wealthy.
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 2:23 pm

“You got that the wrong way around.”

Austerity?
Austerity has been an utter disaster for the eurozone
The Complete Failure Of Austerity, In 1 Chart
IMF: Austerity is much worse for the economy than we thought
Austerity doesn’t work: New IMF report details the damage

You really are an economics lightweight aren’t you Neil – perhaps if you kept up to date with current events instead of continually living in the past, you may learn something for a change 🙄
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 2:30 pm

Bacchus

I stand by what i said. I believe it was reckless spending that got countries into trouble.

Austerity has been used as a medicine to try and solve a countries debt problem. Now you may be right- austerity may make the problem worse. But it was not austerity that caused the problem.

It was socialist policies that caused the problem. You have got it the wrong way around.

What is your solution?? More debt and deficit??
DanDarkDecember 19, 2014 at 2:47 pm

Why do people bother with Neil, its like arguing with an ex-husband or wife its just futile
an absolutely waste of energy, we are not learning anything, or sharing anything that might be useful
now its just rejecting Neils futile arguments and falsehoods and have been for a couple of days

There are two types of people in the world contributors and contaminators, givers and takers
and Neil dosnt contribute common sense arguments and talks shit basically
Its all about Neil and only him and what he wants
and if Neil and this Gov get their way we will all just stop eating, because food is out of the reach of the poor, we live in on streets
and die because we cant afford a doctor……. that will keep him happy and his Messiah Tones
Back to painting the house till Neil pisses off……
Michael TaylorDecember 19, 2014 at 3:17 pm

“Why do people bother with Neil”.

He’s like an annoying mosquito. You just have to swat it.

If Neil was a dog, I’m sure he’d spend his day barking at cars.
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 4:35 pm

“It was socialist policies that caused the problem. ”

What a load of crap. The GFC was caused by private debt not public spending. And you may remember, under Howard private debt skyrocketed.
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 4:42 pm

“What is your solution?? More debt and deficit??”

The size of the debt or deficit is completely irrelevant. Let’s make this simple. If you can borrow money at 3% and invest it in something that brings you a higher return would you consider that wise?

We need to boost employment. We need to invest in health, education and research. We need to provide affordable housing and childcare. We need to invest in targeted infrastructure, not a road your mates want to build but game changers like the NBN and high speed rail.

Rather than “burdening our children and grandchildren with debt”, we are stealing their future for a very short term temporary profit now. This is despicable.
mars08December 19, 2014 at 4:57 pm

#SirNeeeeelOfStupidity…

“You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant.”

And for those of you who insist on giving him oxygen….

“Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.”
BacchusDecember 19, 2014 at 5:27 pm

Yes, Neil can be annoying, but at least he’s sticking broadly to the topic since Kaye warned him to stay on topic yesterday at 2:02 pm.

I’ve just been having a similar “discussion” with mindless right-whingers on facebook – basically on Campbell Newman’s asset ~~sales~~ leases. The plan is to sell assets to to pay down debt and to save $1.7 billion in interest payments – problem is, those assets currently return $3.7 billion to the Qld economy. These dolts think that’s good economics 🙄
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 6:19 pm

“The GFC was caused by private debt not public spending”

Well at least you admitted it was not austerity that caused any problems.

I also think it was reckless spending that caused the problems some European countries are experiencing.
LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 6:25 pm

“Well at least you admitted it was not austerity that caused any problems.”

What do you think contributes to private debt?
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 6:30 pm

I admitted no such thing. Austerity has been a failed attempt at a solution to a problem cause by corporate greed and ballooning private debt. The examples of austerity failing are endless. We need job growth NOW. Jobs come from increased demand so we want people to have more disposable income. Jobs also come from innovation so we want increased investment in research and education. We also want to improve productivity as this increases profit. Health is important in increasing productivity as is education and research (again). We want to stop wars and refugees so foreign aid is crucial. We must act now to slow climate change down. Every direction this government is taking is just wrong.
Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 6:36 pm

I suspect austerity was found to be a failure back in the days of the great depression. I believe Jack Lang thought so. Wanted to spend money in NSW instead of paying off debt, mainly to mother England. Even after losing office, manage to build much infrastructure from Harbour Bridge to Electrifying the railway. Yes, was kicked out. Ones sees his name on numerous foundation stones in Western Sydney.

No austerity did not help. 2nd world war seemed to have done the trick

There is much in common with those years today. Can be frightening when one starts making comparison.

Simple understanding of my uneducated father. A wheat cocky use to say. . Money was made to go around. Each times it circles, it creates wealth on the way. One worries when it stops going around. He believe you could never waste money while it was circulating.
Neil of SydneyDecember 19, 2014 at 7:20 pm

“Austerity has been a failed attempt at a solution to a problem cause by corporate greed and ballooning private debt. “

Exactly. Austerity is an attempt at a solution. But it did not create the problem.

Best not to create the problem in the first place.
SalstaratDecember 19, 2014 at 7:27 pm

Neil, you are so dumbed down, so inflexible, so THICK .. you make a crate of cement look liquid. You seriously need counselling, mate ….. seriously! Now, my advice to everyone is to just ignore Neil … he is either DUMBER than a sack of oats or he is the most incorrigible Troll since Reddit’s Violentacrez! Unfortunately, you cannot legislate against STUPIDITY ….. if you could, Neil would get the death penalty!
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 7:29 pm

Micheal please squash the annoying title buzzy thing before the rigor-mortise of boredom sets in.
The AIM NetworkDecember 19, 2014 at 7:36 pm

Stephen, Salstarat has the best advice. Ignore Neil – skip past him – he doesn’t exist.
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 7:46 pm

Poof, gone, finished, void, annihilated, voice muffled sucked up into the the nether regions, or more explicitly, fundamental orifice of dear leader.

Silence is golden
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 7:47 pm

Damn someone hold me down I can’t stop.
Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 7:54 pm

Why is spending always seen as debt. Spending can lessen debt.

Spending can also be seen as investment in the country’s future. Yes, investment that pays off debt. That creates new wealth.

Austerity does not do this. Does not make space for private industry, Just does not seem to happen. Austerity can lead to greater debt. Does lead to greater debt.

Saying that, this government is not interested in the economy. Nothing in the budget addresses the structural imbalance within. This government is focussed and obsessed with putting in place neoliberalism ideology. As far as they are concerned, the economy will look after itself.

I have this funny idea, that capitalism needs boom and bust to carry on. Yes bust, with new economies growing out of the ashes. Has to be this way, as it relies on continuous growth, that common-sense tells us cannot be.

Pure capitalism cannot create a fair, civil and jsu6t society. Therefor cannot meet the needs of the people.

Neil, Abbott has to keep people concentrated on the myth of Labor’s spending and waste, to put their toxic economic policies and ideology in place.

None in the world are extreme as this mob.
RoswellDecember 19, 2014 at 7:55 pm

stephentardrew, I’ve seen Neil around the traps for about five years now, and he hasn’t changed. He will get a great deal of satisfaction in the knowledge that he has got under your skin. Best to not only ignore him, but to not even mention his name. Hopefully though, he’ll eithet go away or someone will give him the flick fairly soon. I hope.
Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:02 pm

Neil, my solution is more spending and investment. In the long run, will save money. NBNCo to the premises. Only fibre., Gonski reforms, where education starts before school, levelling the playing field for all kids. Universal health insurance scheme, that keeps people healthy. Yes, and move ro renewal energy, that is the power of the future. One that does not rely on fossil fuels. One that is more efficient, along with cleaner. Investment in research that leads to cheaper, cleaner more efficient steel and aluminium mills. The list is endless.

And the most important, a highly dedicated and skilled workforce. All the things Gillard was spending money on, and this idiot has demolished. Putting nothing in its place.

Yes, Neil, Abbott wastes money with his austerity programme. Only austerity for those at the bottom by the way.

Yes spending, which is not debt for the future. One invest, to get future profit. That is how the world works.

Unemployment is the most wasteful thing a country can under go. Costs with no returns.,
Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:10 pm

Neil, the more Abbott cuts, the more the deficit or as you say, the debt grows. We have childcare blowing out. Know why? Wage growth is slow, meaning that more are entitled to childcare rebates, Also taxation receipts has slow down, leading to revenue shortfalls. Cuts means people have less income to spend. Yes, can only manage established debts. GET IT. All pensions that are paid are generally spent immediately, buying goods, paying GST and keeping people in work. Most ends up back in the hands of the government. Yes, and the process begins again.
Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:28 pm

Roswell, and he is still cutting and pasting the same comments. Still using the stale old lines, Nothing new, that fits in with todays situation or environment.
Florence nee FedupDecember 19, 2014 at 8:31 pm

Neil will move through his listed arguments, one by one. Not a word will be altered.
stephentardrewDecember 19, 2014 at 9:01 pm

Roswell not under my skin just being a bit naughty.

Made ya look ya dirty chook.

Will now hold my tongue literally. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……………………………………………………..
Kaye LeeDecember 19, 2014 at 9:39 pm

When governments stop spending private debt increases. Governments don’t default. Private companies and individuals do.

And I acknowledge the fact that Neil hasn’t mentioned Howard for a goodly while. A hopeful sign.
John FraserDecember 19, 2014 at 10:04 pm

<

I think "Neil" might be Joe Hockey on a learning curve.

Or would that be a "leaning" curve ?
Neil of SydneyDecember 20, 2014 at 9:30 am

“Every time the LNP has come to power, Australia’s economy has SLUMPED … have you ever wondered why? ”

This is not true. In fact it is generally the other way around. One thing Labor govts have never been successful with is unemployment.

Gough was handed unemployment at 2% and promptly double it to 4%. Hawke/Keating was handed unemployment at 8% in 1983 and it was 8% in 1996 with records high levels during this time. Rudd/Gillard was handed unemployment at 4.3% in 2007 and left it at 5.8% in 2013. A huge increase in unemployment.

This was the unemployment rate during Keatings recession

“Sept-Dec 1991- 10.1, 10.0, 10.2, 10.4
Jan-Dec 1992- 10.3, 10.4, 10.5, 10.6, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 11.0, 11.0, 11.2
Jan-Dec1993- 10.9, 11.0, 10.8, 10.7, 10.8, 11.0, 10.8, 11.0, 10.7, 10.9, 10.8, 10.6
Jan-April 1994- 10.4, 10.3, 10.3, 10.1”

Several years of DD unemployment. Nothing like it since the great depression. Keating won the election in 1993 with unemployment raging at 11%.

Labor will never be successful with lowering unemployment because their policies do not work.
LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 9:36 am

Neil what drugs are you on? Unemployment has increased since the LNP came to power. Even brain dead morons know that.
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 9:48 am

Dragging Neil back into the present….

Australia’s unemployment rate is the highest it’s been in twelve years, and the government forecasts it will rise to 6.5% by June next year. The rate is expected to have a six in front of it until late 2017, well beyond the next election.

Growth is slow, unemployment is rising, and inflation is low. At the same time, house prices have been increasing from an already uncomfortably high level, lifting household debt levels and raising questions about the health of the financial system if those prices were to fall.

The Australian Westpac-Melbourne Institute Consumer Sentiment Index fell 5.7 percent to 91.1 in December from 96.6 in November. It is its lowest level since August 2011. Consumer Confidence in Australia averaged 101.82 from 1974 until 2014.

Business Confidence in Australia decreased to 1 in November of 2014 from 5 in October of 2014. Business Confidence in Australia averaged 5.85 from 1997 until 2014

Gross debt has increased by almost $70 billion since the election and the deficit has blown out by $12 billion in the 7 months since the May budget.

Tell me you are happy with the way this government has turned things around….
Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:12 am

Neil you have really lost it. Look again, deficit, debt and unemployment growing. Howard managed stagnation. High unemployment and inflation. Same with interest rates would always be lower under LNP. Went up how many times under Costello. Saying something, no matter how many times does not make it real.
Neil of SydneyDecember 20, 2014 at 10:15 am

“The rate is expected to have a six in front of it until late 2017”

And that is where is was during the Hawke/keating disaster.

I was just commenting on Salstarat saying that the economy has slumped every time the LNP is in power. This is not true.

It is generally true that the economy slumps every time the ALP is in power.

The Coalition is having trouble putting humpty dumpty back together but i suspect the ALP has started a runaway debt train that no govt can stop.
Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:18 am

I seem to recall unemployment being nearer to 1% under Whitlam. Under Menzies I seem to recall stop go economy and employment. Along with headlines of Horror budgets.
Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:21 am

One could say Abbott shares another thing with Menzies. Yes, Menzies push to sell pig iron to Japan no matter the cost, resembles Abbott effort to sell coal, no matter the harm is causes.
Florence nee FedupDecember 20, 2014 at 10:23 am

Neil, it has been explained to you before, figures and graphs taken out of context means nothing. Do not say what you believe.
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 10:24 am

The Coalition is having trouble justifying their blatant support for the wealthy end of town Neil. Cutting spending while refusing to look at raising revenue hits services and costs to lower income earners while they actively protect and encourage tax avoidance by the wealthy.
Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 10:34 am

Why has this government more than doubled debt off their own back, debt that has no relationship to the debt left by the previous government?

As Kaye also points out if the debt is such a huge problem then why isn’t this government seeking revenue from those areas that will simply and significantly ease the debt without crashing the economy, yet it seeks to make cuts that will crash the economy?

These are things you won’t see answered by the RWNJ as obfuscation and diversion is the only thing they know.

As I’ve stated so many times before there is no more certain a sign a Liberal government or leader are failing miserably than to see the RWNJ coming in out of the blue attacking past Labor and unable to lucidly defend current Liberal.
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 10:34 am

Right on cue, Richard Denniss sums it up well…..

“When the economy was booming, John Howard and Kevin Rudd said they could afford to significantly cut taxes for the rich. Now that the economy is slowing, they say they have no choice but to cut spending on the poor. Welcome to Team Australia.

The economic survey of Australia, released by the OECD this week, shed stark light on the biased commentary dominating the debate about our nation’s finances. The OECD made clear that Australia is a low-taxing country spending far less than average on essential social services.

OECD data highlights that Australia’s rate of corporate tax is below average, our superannuation tax concessions are incredibly expensive and ineffective, and our unemployment benefits are incredibly stingy.

Of course, you wouldn’t know it from the media coverage of the OECD report, which somehow focused instead on the apparent need to cut income taxes on the wealthy and increase the GST.

There are alternatives. If the Abbott government collected the average taxes levied by other OECD countries, it would have an incredible $139 billion more revenue this year. If it only collected the average taxes levied by the Howard government, it would have collected an additional $22 billion. Instead, the government says Team Australia has a spending problem. The “fiscally responsible” thing to do, we are told, is to charge sick people to visit the doctor and cut investment in universities while charging students more to attend.

The argument for increasing the GST hasn’t got many friends but those in favour of it are loud and powerful. Business lobbyists love the GST for the simple reason that businesses don’t pay it. Owners of foreign companies love it because, by definition, their shareholders consume primarily outside of Australia.

While poor people paying more tax on food is considered fiscally responsible, asking rich people to pay more tax on their premium services is apparently not.

The best way to judge a politician is by their actions, not their words. Joe Hockey says he would do anything to reduce the budget deficit. Anything, that is, except collect more revenue. The Abbott Government doesn’t want to reduce the deficit. Like the Howard government before it, they just want to reduce taxes.

And when the cost of tax cuts takes its toll down the track? Team Australia just declares a “budget emergency” and cuts some spending on the poor.”

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/team-australias-mantra-in-times-of-trouble-tax-the-poor-20141219-12aggc.html
Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 10:37 am

A post of mine just disappeared.
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 10:56 am

I think I fixed it ME. It was caught in the spam filter for some reason
Michael TaylorDecember 20, 2014 at 11:13 am

I should have read Kaye’s comment before I went looking for it. Duh. 😳
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:18 am

Sorry Michael. That foray into the world of spam filter gives me some idea of how hard your job is :-S
John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:27 am

<

@Kaye Lee

Shouldn't …. Team Australia …. be "Team Australia" ?

After all it is an attribution of speech.

I hope "Neil" picks up on this and learns.

I think I'm getting the knack of this :

http://independentaustralia.net/wordpress-opt/wp-content/2013/03/My_work_here_is_done.jpg
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:34 am

John….the REAL Team Australia was trotted out in April. The rest of us are just spectators while running the sand bucket for them to kick goals

Tony Abbott paid a visit to China last April, accompanied by a record number of over 700 businessmen who together represented over half the value of the Australian stock exchange. Few realise that this was the first ‘outing’ of the REAL ‘Team Australia”.

“Five state premiers, along with 700 business leaders, including three billionaires are with the prime minister. The government has dubbed it “team Australia“.”

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-11/tony-abbott-arrives-in-shanghai-for-talks-with-chinese-president/5382584
John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:39 am

<

@Kaye Lee

So the reality is that commoners are only the "B Team Australia" …. or would that be the "Z Team Australia" ?

Is it possible to get a "Scholarship" to an "Academy" to help me lift my "game".

I trust "Neil" is taking in all these " ".
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:43 am

John,

Not sure about Academies but their are plenty of Forums that will most definitely advance your chance for selection – the North Sydney Forum, the Wentworth Forum, the Millenium Forum, the Warringah 1000 Forum

Speaking of the Warringah forum….

http://northcoastvoices.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/tony-abbotts-election-campaign-funding.html
John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:52 am

<

@Kaye Lee

Shame on you !

You left out the "Uriah Heep" Sydney Institute.

Where nepotism appears to be one of the Institutes highest attributes.

Tax evasion appears to be on the curriculum as well ….. a handy thing for anyone who “aspires” to be on “Team Australia”.
Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:59 am

Institutes open up a whole new level. Why not start at the top with the IPA….add in some ANDEV for insurance.
John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 12:14 pm

<

@Kaye Lee

Being one of "Z Team Australia" I could only dream of aspiring to a "scholarship" to that august "Institution" the IPA.

The heights that that alumni have reached must make a gambler cheer.

I see the “revolutionary passerby” has arrived so I shall now have to go and read what he/she has to say ….. or hit the whiskey or gin bottle, decisions, decisions !
Neil of SydneyDecember 20, 2014 at 2:31 pm

“Neil you have really lost it. Look again, deficit, debt and unemployment growing.”

You just described the Rudd/Gillard govt

.”I seem to recall unemployment being nearer to 1% under Whitlam”

I guess ALP supporters believe what they want to believe. But Gough doubled the unemployment rate from 2% under the Coalition to 4% in no time flat. 4% may seem low but back in those days a unemployment rate of 4% was regarded as high.

It was Whitlam who set us on the road to high spending govt

When in power the ALP has never had any success in reducing the unemployment rate. It has never been lower at the end of their time in govt than what they were handed.
LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 3:14 pm

Looks like many don’t share your opinion Neil.

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/treasury/joe-hockey-the-worst-treasurer-in-40-years-opinion-poll-finds/story-fn59nsif-1227162450061?sv=70e0a967184cf7b5997ab16fe82f7a44#.VJTLDvb307Q.facebook
SalstaratDecember 20, 2014 at 7:23 pm

Neil, the HUGE difference between the myopic, gormless, mean spirited LNP and Labor under the inspirational leadership of Gough Whitlam was that Gough Whitlam returned the taxes and funds paid by Australians back TO ordinary Australians whereas the loathsome, fascist LNP take-take-take from ordinary people and only give it back to the top 1% of wealthiest corporate giants and billionaire miners in the country! You just don’t get it, do you Neil. My God, you are dumber than a box of rocks!

Neil, sadly, it is apparent that you are a typical member of the screaming lunatic fringe of Phony Abbott’s LYING, deceitful LNP, the most discredited, disgraced, internationally despised, condemned and scorned government in our history! Did you notice the loud, never ending BOOING of Abbott and the war mongering pariah, John Howard, by thousands and thousands of people outside The Town Hall at Whitlam’s memorial? Shows how much these despicable, inarticulate little rodents are HATED and LOATHED, not only throughout Australia but right around the world! Julia has been VINDICATED – received HUGE applause and a standing ovation!

Gough Whitlam was the greatest PM in our history and history has judged him so … he will be loved, admired and remembered in a way that NO LNP prime minister EVER will … especially the crawling political leper, Abbott! The smug, arrogant, swaggering baboon, Abbott, will go down in history as a vile little shit stain on the underpants of our political history! There has NEVER EVER been an LNP prime minister worth spitting on WHEREAS Labor is overflowing with highly respected prime ministers, academics and intellectuals. I won’t mention Kevin Rudd, because he is the one EXCEPTION – a nasty, ill tempered little right wing back stabber who did untold damage to the Labor Party … his vicious vindictiveness has more in common with the likes of the offensive effete Christopher Pyne! However, (notwithstanding Rudd) the Labor Party has been blessed with intelligent, compassionate leaders with great foresight like Billy Hughes, Ben Chifley, Bob Hawke, Paul Keating, Gough Whitlam and, yes, Julia Gillard who introduced more policies in a month than the ineffective, useless neoliberal, Abbott, managed in 14 months of disastrous, catastrophic mismanagement!

You will seriously regret your appalling lack of judgement at the last election, Neil, when you have to fork out $150,000 PLUS for your child’s university/tertiary fees, pay the 20% GST hike, fork out a fortune for massively increased oil, gas and electrical prices (where Abbott’s myopic tearing back of the sensible carbon pricing system has had ZERO impact outside rewarding the biggest, most avaricious POLLUTERS in our country). You will, one day, turn around and realise that the LNP have sold off EVERY SINGLE asset that Australian taxpayers once owned … all profits and jobs going overseas. The slowing down of our economy, the DOUBLING of our country’s DEFICIT under the hopelessly ineffective Sloppy Joe Hockey’s discredited EPIC FAILURE of an unfair, penny pinching budget, the inevitable disastrous rise in unemployment (especially among our X-Y Generation) and the ongoing ramped up terror campaigns this deceitful government are using as a distraction against the fascist undemocratic policies they are pushing through in the background! The horrific increase in government sponsored xenophobic racism and intolerance (under the psychopathic Scott Morrison and George Brandis), the introduction of the American biased TPP and Abbott’s realisation of the dreadful, inequitable neoliberal dream of Murdoch’s IPA … all these ghastly, destructive and regressive policies that Abbott has forced upon us!

Whitlam was a born LEADER, an instigator of policies that benefited Australians from all walks of life over many generations, intelligent, charismatic, creative, positive and constructive! Whitlam had a deep love for Australia and Australians WHEREAS … Abbott is a fricking WRECKING BALL – tearing things apart, de-funding, de-listing, annihilating! Abbott creates NOTHING, manufactures NOTHING, initiates NOTHING … will leave no legacy but destruction, pollution and chaos. Abbott doesn’t care about ANYTHING or ANYONE unless it has a big dollar parked in front of it! Profit, money and greed are the ONLY things that motivate, control and manipulate Abbott and his avaricious, morally bankrupt cabinet. The LNP are ready, willing and able to sacrifice EVERYTHING to feed their relentless rapacity! Abbott hasn’t achieved a single thing since he crawled across the electoral line on a platform of reprehensible LIES and broken promises! He is a mindless, gormless DESTROYER of everything we hold dear! Abbott is a British born, snivelling little elitist whose obsequious subservience to British snobbery and imperialism is evident in everything he says and does. He and his un-Australian cabinet have an offensive arrogant and sneering condescension for ordinary Australians and despise our egalitarian lifestyle.

The damage the knuckle dragging cretinous Troglodyte (Abbott) and his misanthropic, totally inept FASCIST government have done to Australia’s international reputation, our environment, our democracy, our egalitarian society, our free speech, our health and education systems (which were brilliantly innovated by Gough Whitlam), and our children’s future – will take DECADES to repair!

.. and THIS is the intellectual midget YOU voted in, Neil .. thanks for NOTHING! STUPID IS WHAT STUPID DOES!
Rob031December 21, 2014 at 5:15 am

@Salstarat. Now now. Don’t hold back. Say what you really think 🙂
Marevellous rant and well done – I’m not being sarcastic either!

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