By Binoy Kampmark
“I think it is a horrible deal, a disgusting deal that I would never have made. It is an embarrassment to the United States of America and you can say it just the way I said it.” (Donald J. Trump to Malcolm Turnbull, Jan 28, 2017).
It acts as a Rorschach test on policy making in the United States, upon which we can project a range of quizzed perceptions and feather headed notions. And it took a conversation between Donald Trump of the United States and Malcolm Turnbull of Australia to realise how cruelty can become sovereign in the age of the reality television mogul.
The first part of the January chat was the sort of terrain Trump felt most comfortable on. There were the congratulations, and then the personal touches. “And I guess our friend Greg Norman, he is doing very well?”
Then the temperature begins to rise, approaching boiling point, notably on the proposed Obama-Turnbull refugee swap between the US and Australia. “Really it looks like 2,000 people that Australia does not want and I do not blame you by the way, but the United States has become like a dumping ground.”
The crucified here, as they have been for a good decade in these matters, were refugees. Trump was in a banning mood and throwing food to the anti-immigration lobby. Ban Muslims from travelling; strike countries off the list of suitable providers for arrivals to the US. “We have allowed so many people into our country that should not be here.”
Trump’s interest, as ever, was why the US should abide by arrangement to begin with. He insisted on calling it “rotten”, “stupid” and “ridiculous”. By going through with such an arrangement, “I will be seen as a weak and ineffective leader in my first week by these people. This is a killer.”
There were also points of bafflement for the new arrival to the White House. What was, inquired Trump, this mania about boat arrivals? “Why do you discriminate against boats?” Presumably it was the regions producing such refugees. “No, I know, they come from certain regions. I get it.”
Turnbull ventured his reasons, ones that have become the blood-dry rationale for a ruthless policy that, in its application, is erroneous and dangerous. “The problem with boats is that you are basically outsourcing your immigration program to people smugglers and also you get thousands of people drowning at sea.”
“Suppose,” inquired Trump on a phone call that has now been minted in infamy, “I vet them closely and I do not take any?” Turnbull then clarifies the posturing element in the show: “That is the point I have been trying to make.” It would not matter if they were not accepted into the United States, as long as it was understood that Australia could never have them. “The obligation,” explained Turnbull, “is only to go through the process.”
What of the quality of the people in question? “It is not because [the refugees] are bad people. It is because in order to stop people smugglers we had to deprive them of the product.” This supreme commodification, this reduction of the historical legacy of shuffling and moving desperate human “cargo” across borders to flee desperate conditions, is one of the more striking points in the conversation. Damn the ethics and the rights, and observe the transaction. Forget the credentials.
Indeed, even if there was a “Nobel Prize-winning genius” who arrived by boat, he would not find home in Australia. This point by Turnbull is near staggering, suggesting more than a minor case of philistinism. (A future advertisement: Nobel Prize-winner fleeing persecution heading to Australia by boat never to settle in the country).
In what can only be described as a perverse turn, Trump then praises Turnbull and Australia’s refugee policy. To deny even the most gifted because of the means they travel to a country was sound stuff. “That’s a good idea. We should do that too. You are worse than I am.”
Turnbull’s own picture of the refugee situation remains as formed as any reactionary. Rather than being tormented and tortured in what Trump himself called prisons (Nauru and Manus Island), these “are basically economic refugees from Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan.”
The impression here is that they would have been let in if appropriately matched to the refugee criteria. But the point is clear enough: the form of arrival determines everything. “If they had arrived by airplane and with a tourist visa they would be here.” Almost obscenely, Turnbull suggests that economic migrants are permitted to stay in Australia, provided they take the plane.
The prime minister attempted, at points, to be suitably obsequious, insisting that a generous exchange was being offered. Surely the United States had its own share of the unwanted which Australia might assist in processing? “We will take more. We will take anyone that you want us to take.” Just, of course, keep in mind that iron-clad caveat: “The only people that we do not take are people who come by boat.”
Some in the Australian press corps have claimed that Turnbull came out better in this scuffle. That’s hardly saying much. One leader was transactional, procedural and indifferent to international law; the other was indifferent to the very fact that his administration was bound by anything that had been done by the Obama administration. Ultimately, both leaders were obsessed by the same thing: appearances are everything.
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Dr Binoy Kampmark is a senior lecturer in the School of Global, Urban and Social Studies, RMIT University. He was a Commonwealth Scholar at Selwyn College, University of Cambridge. He is a contributing editor to CounterPunch and can be followed on Twitter at @bkampmark.
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The appearance of agreements is all that matters!!! – this, has been confirmed, by our, do-nothing, Prime-minister
A Pretend government, doing pretend governance in all aspects of things, policies, social welfare and social justice, the economy, looking out for Australian ‘best’ interests (NOT) and running this country into the ground
Relentlessly, doing bottomless harm to asylum seekers, and whittling away ‘Human Rights’ at a rate of knots
Then expecting to have a seat in the United Nations!!
How far can spin, dereliction of duty, and lying, go?
[Ultimately, both leaders were obsessed by the same thing: appearances are everything]
As was the ALP under Gillard with the Malaysian solution, or Rudd with the Carbon tax before that.
Both sides really need to get rid of their large advisory support personnel and get back to basics – it would seem to me they enhance the idea that politics is a mere game of competition to be played, as opposed to providing management service for us.
Tinyballs came across as a obsequious grovelling little creep.
Now we have him crawling like the frightened little scumbag he is with his bullshit excuses to Australians after the transcripts appeared –
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/04/turnbull-was-standing-by-terms-of-us-refugee-deal-in-trump-call-frydenberg-says
Turnbull also described them as “economic refugees” when there is no such thing.
The legal definition under the Refugee Convention is that a refugee (who these people have been checked and found to be) is “a person who faces a well-found fear of persecution on the grounds of race, religion, nationality, membership of a social group or political opinion. Economic hardship is NOT a criterion for refugee status”.
Obligations under the convention are not mentioned at any time during the conversation – only the political needs of each leader.
Amazing. Just here from the Guardian and Katharine Murphy’s droll thoughts on the same issue. Sad stuff, all round.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/04/turnbulls-call-with-trump-pulls-back-the-curtain-and-its-not-a-pretty-sight#comment-103150261
PW
It is sad stuff – I remain at the speechless stage, having heard nothing inspirational from Amanda Vanstone when interviewed by Ali Moore on ABC 774 (MEL).
Vanstone leapt into partisan mode, stating the (entire) phone call was but part of a larger conversation – we were only getting what the POTUS and the PM of Australia were saying – which was entirely “out of context”.
Really? If an entire conservation between world leaders is out of context, I have to wonder what the context was. I know what it wasn’t, there is not and continues to be not a shred of empathy or concern about the refugees whose only fault is to be placed on Manus & Nauru at this place in time and the boat connection of course!
This is how refugees are regarded, how then are the rest of us regarded by the self-important, yet slimy pieces of excrement that happen to be in power?
kristapet, your comment here, gets my post-of the-day award, totally agree with you. How low have sank.
I actually agree with Trump in one respect and that is to do with his question of Turnbull as to why the refugees hadn’t eventually been integrated and Turnbull’s recitation of the smuggler guff was Stepford in the extreme.
He believes this tired old bullshit? Surely not in the late part of the second decade of the twenty first century.
They cling to it like drowning people clutching at straws and it is a sad- that word again- reflection of how bereft of any real justification the LNP have for being in government. They only bring pain to their scapegoat victims whose lives pay for a fragile ideological construct and they are only really about the looting of the nation.
Thing I don’t get with this government, when some thing is wrong, a normal person tries to fix it.
Yet this government always deliberately and perversely compounds its criminality on many subjects. Here is another example.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/aug/04/centrelink-accused-of-threatening-people-using-letters-with-police-logo
For crying out loud, JUST CLOSE THE DETENTION CENTRES AND BRING ALL THE ASYLUM SEEKERS HERE!!
I wonder if Turnbull is aware that the 1921 winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics, Albert Einstein, came to the USA by boat in 1933 on a lecture tour. Whilst there Hitler came to power in Germany and Einstein who was Jewish, fled Germany and applied to stay in the USA.
“… both leaders were obsessed by the same thing: appearances are everything.”
I did not expect anything from Trump, and as he so rightly said: why isn’t Australia taking them… I never believed he would take anyone in…
I stupidly believed and hoped that Turnbull would be a better leader than Abbott…, I’m ashamed for having been so naïve
This exchange has lowered their ‘appearances’ beyond repair. They both seem to suffer from empathy deficit….
You’re not alone, helvityni. I too believed he’d be the answer we were looking for. I’m not ashamed though: rather, I believe now that I held false hopes.
I never intended voting for him, I simply thought he’d move his party closer to the centre.
“I never intended voting for him…” God no, that would be a step too far…
But I forgave Fraser for his ‘sins’ for allowing over 20 000 Vietnamese refugees in, and I can think of two moderate Liberal politicians Dr Hewson and the Greek bloke, Petro Georgiou…. Not many .. 🙂 Today’s pickings would be even leaner, no one…
Turnbull just stuck with the agreed party line when he spoke to Trump.If you come by boat you aren’t getting in, so really he was just telling it as it is
Never mind the humanity of your actions, as long you stuck with the party line, sacrificed your integrity for it.
Was Abbott sticking to the party line when he awarded Prince Phillip…?
Party lines have been crossed in the past by humane , compassionate party members for the sake of higher good…
People coming here by air ,having special visas have committed murders, as have our own Aussie boys, I don’t know of murders by refugees, yet some of them have been killed in detention ( the Iranian Architect student, Reza….)
What’s the obsession with boats, if you were lucky ,and did not drown ,you ought to be punished… Weird.
They were told in 2001
JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: We will decide who comes to this country and the circumstances in which they come.
So if they still chose to pay people smugglers when they had no chance of landing here more fool them.
Howard was doing what the majority of people wanted so was Abbott and Turnbull just kept the policy going
The message was clear .If you come by boat you aren’t getting in, so they should have gone elsewhere.A muslim country perhaps
This conversation gives us a glimpse into the real world of politics … not least that the leaders thereof are compulsive lying narcissists who are concerned only with appearances, not with facts, ethics or anything remotely of that order.
Even after he was unmasked, trumble still insists that he was standing up for ‘straya !!!
I am the world’s greatest person, and you’re worse than I am. LOLOLOLOL.
What is it with the LNP that they pile lie upon lie, yet would have believe it’s being patriotic?
So according to Turnbull and every L-NP MP interviewed since yesterday, he’s an Australian hero sticking up for our country over that of the USA. The fact that the released transcript shows he lied to us about what he said to Trump at the time, and that now he was very willing to engage in a deception to save his and Trump’s skin matters not, it’s being a patriot.
This morning, a Labor MP attempting to highlight Turnbull’s lies and essayed deception over this was ignored by the ABC presenter, who accepted a Liberal MP’s patriotic bunk without question.
Mal to Don:
“…The obligation is for the United States to look and examine and take up to and only if they so choose – 1,250 to 2,000. Every individual is subject to your vetting. You can decide to take them or to not take them after vetting. You can decide to take 1,000 or 100. It is entirely up to you. The obligation is to only go through the process….”
What happened to the Central Americans we were supposed to take; was it just another fairy tale, a tale told one day and never mentioned after that…
helvityni, Turnbull goes on to say he will take anyone Trump sends him.
That part is not being taken up by the media. Here is the supposed patriot who time and again states that the safety of Australians is his highest priority, saying he would accept anybody Trump sent him, criminals, history of violence, mentally unstable, etc. How is that keeping us safe and being a patriot? Why isn’t the media highlighting this part of the conversation?
…and there’s talk ( in MSM) about who is the winner and who’s the loser in this exchange…In my way of thinking they are both losers, but of course the biggest losers are the asylum seekers, the pawns in this detestable political game. Haven’t they already suffered enough….
Michael helvityni I knew exactly who Turnbull was after his attempts at being Republic. I could see he was a puffed up wanker back then.My instincts are very good.There is zero substance in the man.
So, Julie Bishop reckons we are a shoo-in (or is it shoe-in) for a seat on the UN Human Rights Council. Evidently after the French pulled out only Australia and Spain are still bidding for the two seats available and will be elected automatically.
Julie Bishop noted with a straight face that : “The support for Australia’s candidacy demonstrates the values and principles that underpin Australia’s international engagement.,”
Based on these criteria it is suggested that Peter Dutton is odds-on for the Nobel Prize for services to humanity in recognition of his tireless and tenaceous efforts on behalf of refugees.
What a topsy-turvy world we live in !
Helen Bates..: ” So if they still chose to pay people smugglers when they had no chance of landing here more fool them.”
There are moments of desperation in a famlily’s fate, where a clear, rational decision is not taken, but rather a gamble of all or nothing takes precedence over the certainty of slow death by a thousand cuts. You, yourself, Helen Bates are in the same situation now as those refugees, you both see the future as dependent upon making a decision to act on the best knowledge available to yourself..them, for their and their family’s very future survival, yourself, for a delusion that YOUR and your family’s survival depends on bring down “those lefties” that will “socialist” the country.
Unfortunately for the refugee, they have no place to shelter and will pay the price as individuals (sometimes ; death, or rape, or dispersal or all the above) for any unforeseen act of tragic folly…BUT YOUR unforgiving lot, cowards that you are, can hide in that soft, comfortable, all-embracing, pap-fed, milk-sopped cocoon of “public-opinion”…bottle / spoon-fed to low intellect insecure blow-backs like yourself. It is why so many Right-wing juntas can operate kill-squads like “Operation Condor” we read about on another article here, and why people like yourself can bath yourselves in the milk-like innocence of loud-mouthed opinion.
But I’d bet London to a brick…LONDON – TO – A – BRICK if we go back several generations with a surname like “Bates” (the sort of surname for a fishmongers fish-gutter), we’d soon find a relative who did no more than any one of those refugees to save their family..ie; traded their dignity and / or their family treasures for a slim chance to escape fear or poverty.
What I can’t stand about the likes of your kind is the shallow pool of human sympathy you show toward a fellow life traveler..We have many of us been caught in that moment of making a decision that could make or break our hearts or minds..yet you seem to have been granted a clear. trouble-free road through life so that such a decision has never darkened your door, of if it has, I would say YOU made the wrong decision and are defending the sorry outcome of that decision with a hard heart..
Perhaps you need to watch that movie : “Sophie’s Choice” one more time…not just for the sentimentality..and this time, for once in your life, place yourself in Sophie’s situation.
The occupants of Manus and Nauru are now stating the bleeding obvious. ‘Just kill us’.
It is inescapable that the duck and talcum have no intention of ‘solving a problem’ that they created. talcum has assured the duck he only has to pretend to observe the agreement, and we have already accepted the refugee’s from central America.
talcum, dutton and bishop have knowingly misled the Australian people. So what? Just another day in our non governance.
Those in our care are going to die. So what? Just another day in our non governance.
Whilst Jocelyn represents my belief, the important thing to know is that talcum and the duck will find the source of this leak. It’s important to know the priorities for our ‘leaders’.
That people will die is nothing more than a distraction for the spin doctors. At least they didn’t die on a boat trying to get here.
I think I’m going to be sick. Again. Just another day in our non governance.
Thank you Dr Kampmark and commenters. Take care
*Kyran
The priorities for our world leaders are not about those Trumble & Trump claim to represent but the whine of spoilt brats who worry they will lose power.
Not once, in the entire telephone conversation was a suggestion of human well being – not that I cam claiming to be shocked, just that my worst suspicions are confirmed.
As for leaks, clearly some one or some people in or connected to the White-house do not trust the Trump government – more power to them, say I.
Is Scott Pruitt coming to Australia to lecture us on the evils of SSM?
Indeed, diannaart.
“Not once, in the entire telephone conversation was a suggestion of human well being…”
Take care
‘helvityni’ – thank you very much – I am very pissed off about this government’s treatment of this asylum seeker, issue – it seems to me when you:
De-humanise, depersonalize people, or make them a statistic, compassion, philanthropy, human decency, fellow feeling goes by the wayside.This unyielding position by this government seems more bloody minded as it continues on – since they spin so well, I am amazed they can’t spin a way of relenting and saving face at the same time.I am dumfounded that they cannot see how perverse and cruel the world perceives them, when “appearances” is all that matters to them.Their justification of their actions to the voting public is so ingenuous, it defies, beggars belief – nothing they are doing surprises me – getting away with it, is another matter – it seems, in everything they do, there are no consequences, when you think, that, other prime ministers, ministers, and parties have fallen, by comparison, on less, deviant behaviour
At least we now know that the POTUS, the worlds greatest person has local milk with his covfefe.