39 comments

1. Kaye LeeJuly 17, 2017 at 8:05 am

   Any discussion about mitigation should include the need to stop mining and burning fossil fuels.

2. wamJuly 17, 2017 at 8:10 am

   Sorry, Trish and Kaye, nice try but, in the words of the esteemed rabbott, “It is a lifestyle choice!’

3. Möbius EckoJuly 17, 2017 at 8:12 am

   He’s now also attacking Queensland by having the Energy watchdog do an enquiry into why their energy costs are so high. He’s not signalled out any other State, just Queensland.

   And in another attack against the States, plus a thinly veiled attempt at boosting his lagging poll numbers, today he’s introducing a policy to use the Australian military in terrorist incidents like the Lindt cafe. Now I don’t know what happens when there’s a siege involving a single white person in a domestic situation, bikie related or right wing extremist, I guess then the State police are perfectly apt at handling it. But if it can be in any way linked to Islam, then Malcolm will make sure the Army goes in and he’s immediately front and centre in the headlines.

   Who wants to make a bet there’s terrorist related raids and maybe even an incident leading up to the next election?

4. Trish CorryJuly 17, 2017 at 8:12 am

   Oh so QLD can just get stuffed can we Kaye? Natural disasters are now a reason to bleat the Eco warrior band wagon? If you think mining is the cause of everything you are delusional.

5. David BruceJuly 17, 2017 at 8:17 am

   why not include methane from livestock while you are at it?

6. Kaye LeeJuly 17, 2017 at 8:18 am

   Why so aggressive Trish?

   You state “I think everyone agrees that preventing death, destruction and massive blows to the local economy are all in the national interest.”

   I agree wholeheartedly. We will certainly have to use adaptation measures also but we must address the cause of the problem as well. It is not delusional to blame greenhouse gases – it is what the scientists tell us is increasing the frequency and intensity of disasters.

   David, it would certainly be preferable if we ate less meat and dairy. Methane is more intense than CO2 but it also dissipates more quickly. CO2 hangs around for hundreds of years.

7. HarquebusJuly 17, 2017 at 8:31 am

   Trish Corry
   It has only just started. Bleating will not change the laws of physics which, is what we are up against.
   If our society is not able to afford the consequences of industrial civilization now, what kind of future do we have in the face of increasing extreme weather events?

8. corvus boreusJuly 17, 2017 at 8:35 am

   Kaye Lee,
   Apparently, in linking the prevalent scientific theory that the burning of fossil fuels is driving increasing global climate change which is causing increased severity in extreme weather events, with the increase in frequency and severity of extreme weather events in Queensland, and suggesting that means of mitigation might also include addressing underlying causes (eg the mining and burning of fossil fuels), you are not only delusional, but totally anti-QLD.

9. Joseph CarliJuly 17, 2017 at 8:43 am

   Just the “crime” of inflicting Joh on the nation with his “Joh as PM” and the “Senator Fields Affair”, let alone “Kevin ’07 from heaven” is enough to place Qld.in a sack-cloth and ashes “holding pen of contrition” for a thousand years, and to suffer the wrath of many “acts of God” therefor..with neither pity nor remission!

   And I won’t even mention Russ Hinze amongst a veritable LEGION of other strange hatters, Katters and PHON-onomen!

10. Trish CorryJuly 17, 2017 at 8:49 am

    Not aggressive at all Kaye. My reaction is to the absolute absence of empathy or concern for human beings in these disasters and the lack of concern to the Government wiping their hands of any responsibility. Just ignore all that and go straight to talking about climate change and we know that will lead to Adani being discussed instead of this serious issue. Yeh I will be honest it gets on my nerves. My post is about people and community, and the lack of compassion by the government. I’m sure there are a million threads you can enjoy a conversation about adani and climate change with others. It might be your favourite topic, but there are other things in the world to show concern about – like people.

11. Kaye LeeJuly 17, 2017 at 8:50 am

    cb,

    I think Trish approaches my comments with anticipated tension.

12. Kaye LeeJuly 17, 2017 at 8:57 am

    Trish, I am not sure how I demonstrated a lack of empathy or concern. It seems impossible to detach an article about the increasing frequency and severity of natural disasters, and the devastating consequences that has on the community, from climate change and whether we should build new coal fired power stations or more renewables.

    But a higher levy/levee is probably a good idea to cope short term and the federal government should help.

13. Mick ByronJuly 17, 2017 at 9:28 am

    Trish Corry I accept that humans contribute to Climate change and accept the findings of the bulk of Scientific opinion but I also see a problem where developed nations try to force regulation on developing countries
    The facts are
    Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty — less than $1.25 a day. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty.
    About 29,000 children under the age of five – 21 each minute – die every day, mainly from preventable causes
    I don’t imagine they give too much thought to the method of electricity generation or the fossil fuels used in food production and could imagine climate change would not be high on their agenda when their ultimate effort is to live until tomorrow.
    All the while coal can be exported cheaply to devloping countries I don’t see it slowing down.
    There is a future for cheap clean energy but when would it get to those who desperately need it most.
    I am reminded of the effort some years ago of NGOs supplying solar cookers to nomadic tribes in a couple of countries to try to lessen wood burning cooking.Unfortunately the NGOs thought they knew best and did the donations without consultation.
    All to no avail of cours as the nomadic tribes cook and eat after dark because of stifling heat.

    “but there are other things in the world to show concern about – like people”
    that is my first priority
    Sometimes decisions in one country, although not popular, do lead to the advancement and security of those most in need in developing countries

14. FreethinkerJuly 17, 2017 at 9:29 am

    I guess that we cannot mix the two issues, climate change and natural disasters in the way that the topic was brought up by Trish, otherwise someone will say, “serve them right for the deforestation made by their farmers” or any other silly comment.
    The natural disasters affect a lot of innocent people that have done nothing or very little to cause global warming, further more if we are going to go on with the global warming causes and responsibilities the people that live in the bigger cities with their life style and consumerism are more responsible of the cause of climate change than those in regional Australia.
    I agree with Trish and share her concerns and frustration.

15. Marcus ChampJuly 17, 2017 at 9:31 am

    Another aspect not being appreciated is it’s not like the Federal Government doe not have the money for emergency relief, infrastructure spending, research investment, emergency support funding, improved health-care, or anything needed to improve well being and economic capacity.

    As a sovereign state with fiat currency the Government literally CREATES the money supply. As such it could easily direct the RBA to direct funds into state accounts to cover such events through key-strokes as easily as you would do internet banking. In fact even easier as it’s not like it has to borrow from anyone to do it.

    The only barrier to this REALITY is our representatives DO NOT understand economics and choose not to use the power of being the issuer of the currency. As an aside, some of you will be thinking…wait just “printing money” does that create hyperinflation like Zimbabwe or Weimar Germany? Simple answer, NO.

    Hyperinflation very rare and hard to create, and requires very specific circumstances and so this myth can easily be de-bunked. Others will say ” but taxes pay for Gov spending” so we have to make hard choices to let people suffer. Again, NOT true.

    Taxes DO NOT pay for Govt services…in a sovereign state with fiat currency never has, never will. Taxation creates “space” to enable Gov spending. Now, a State such as QLD is like a household, does need to spend within its means, and taxes ARE used for spending. So it is encumbent on the Federal Government to use its sovereign power to help people.

    Just transfer the funds and stop the useless, pointless and petty politicking.

    Marcus

16. KeithJuly 17, 2017 at 9:39 am

    Trish, I imagine that many reading your article would not know how hard Rockhampton has been hit by extreme weather, I certainly was not aware. While disasters are measured in monetary costs; the costs to communities, families and individuals are not taken into account. I can imagine that each time bad weather is expected that anxiety levels increase through the whole community.
    As you say the Federal government needs to provide assistance, full stop.

    You most likely have heard of the analogy of people being washed over a waterfall with Ambulances based at the bottom of the waterfall to provide medical aid. The analogy suggests that action needs to continue at the base of the waterfall; but action needs to happen at the top of the falls also, to stop people from being swept to the bottom. So, Kaye Lee is right as well.

    The really important part is that the Federal Government provides assistance including making provision for rebuilding of infra-structure, and any other necessities including financing of counselling services should local services not be able to cope. Anybody with a predisposition for mental health disorders from children through to adults are at risk taking into account what you have stated.

17. Joseph CarliJuly 17, 2017 at 9:41 am

    Seriously though..What is it with you benders and gropers that there seems to be this parochial ; “Them ‘n us” mentality about Qld’ and WA.?..Is it some sort of awry “agrophobic event” where the body corporate of the population is want to venture outside their psychologically security state boundaries, but the rest of the country get afflicted with the kind of “Beverly Hillbilly Politicians” you send into the “wilderness” of federal politics to inflict gross disorder on the rest of us and then claim the “victim card” when we tell you to “fck off and keep your brat kids at home!”…
    No bullshit..I have found on this and other sites when ever I have posted something accidently / remotely :”anti Qld / anti WA'”, there is a veritable HOWL…a HOWL of protest against the “unfair slander”, accompanied in almost the next sentence by a self-agrandising rundown of the natural beauty and sunshine benefits of the “best little state this side of God’s luxury suites in Heaven..you betcha!”
    Please..we all chipped in to Julia Gillards Yasi appeal to the tune of millions…and even though these bastards in the LNP are dealing Qld’ and WA a dead-hand this time around, don’t blame the rest of us and PLEASE..PLEASE start voting for some one else rather than that platoon of idiots and fckwits in the LNP that you keep sending to Canberra just to make the rest of the nation miserable!

18. HarquebusJuly 17, 2017 at 10:18 am

    How much will it cost to replace the GBR?
    Fiat currencies can be created ex nihilo, that which they have destroyed can not.

    “”The reef is in strife, and to say otherwise is bullshit,” he tells me at Rivendell. “Half the place is dead already. It won’t be here in 15 years.” Contrary to public opinion, he says, runoff from nearby farms is not nearly as big a threat to the reef as climate change, embodied most recently in the proposed Carmichael coal mine, in north central Queensland.”
    “We are being led by idiots,” Veron says. Former federal environment minister Greg Hunt is “the most stupid man you could ever hope to meet”. Tony Abbott is a “moron”
    “No one ever listens to me, I’m just a marine scientist”
    “There will be immense social disruption, mass starvation, resource wars, cyclones the likes of which we’ve never experienced.”
    “There is a quite high rate of depression among scientists. We see it ourselves. We have been trying to get the message out for 30 years. We are going over a precipice, and there’s nothing we can do about it.”
    http://www.theage.com.au/good-weekend/charlie-veron-the-dire-environmental-prognosis-we-cannot-ignore-20170711-gx8tqr.html

    “The Great Barrier Reef is unlikely to survive as more than a small, sad remnant of its past glory.
    The reason is straightforward. It is well known in climate science that, even if we stopped harmful emissions tomorrow, global warming would not peak for another several decades. By then, most of the Reef will be long gone.”
    “So can we still save the Reef? That’s what this article is really about. If you remember what so few seem to be aware of, that warming for the next few decades is already “in the pipeline”, then the prospects looks grim.”
    https://independentaustralia.net/environment/environment-display/the-great-barrier-reef-is-doomed,10501

19. FreethinkerJuly 17, 2017 at 11:11 am

    Harquebus in many ways I agree with you, but it will not made any harm for everybody do their bit to even slow down the process.
    IMO the main problem is selfishness, the majority of the people are in agreement that global warming/climate change is a reality but no one would like to do the first step and become a minimalist by reducing their consuming habits.
    Nearly all of them do not to accept that by stop consuming in the way that they are doing they will send broke those companies that damage the environment.
    In another issue, the same applies to the media that is controlled by few including Murdoch. If people do not look their TV channels, listen to the radio and stop buying newspapers Murdoch will be irrelevant.
    The solution is people power and until they do not use it nothing will happens.

20. NeededagoodlaughJuly 17, 2017 at 12:01 pm

    You can continue to argue the relationship between natural disasters and climate change but the immediate issue is the mitigation of preventable disasters like local flooding etc.. Its a false economy to only rebuild what previously existed and not invest in new and or improved mitigation measures. The two items are not a binary choice, one is a long term discussion to develop mitigation strategies and the other is a tactical response while the powers that be come to realise that former is a causal factor in the later. Today its Rocky who gets the big NO, tomorrow it might be Lismore…
    Hopefully the people of Rocky will make their feelings known at the next election, be it State or Federal.

21. jimhazJuly 17, 2017 at 12:47 pm

    You’d have to think levee building in Rocky would now be “high priority infrastructure” – though I see it as ENTIRELY a State matter, so that cretin Palaszczuk should be paying for this (50%) and other such levee banks instead of possibly gifting 1b to the most untrustworthy Adani crowd.

    There needs to be a penalty locally to limit future councils approving inappropriate land use – so Rocky council should pay the remaining 50%.

22. Trish CorryJuly 17, 2017 at 12:59 pm

    Labor is paying 50%. They requested 50% from Feds. It’s how the cat D funding works. QLD Labor has not given a loan to Adani. The federal Libs are the ones considering that, not that funding anything has to do with this issue because the buckets of money are unrelated. What inappropriate land use has RCC used recently. Most of flood areas are in old parts of town, including the airport. The council is putting up money for the levee. How you see this as not a national responsibility is very disappointing.

23. Kaye LeeJuly 17, 2017 at 1:31 pm

    In 2014, Joe Hockey had the Productivity Commission do a report on natural disaster funding arrangements.

    They recommended that Australian Government post-disaster support to state and territory governments should be reduced, and support for mitigation increased to $200 million a year and be matched by the states. The idea was to help pay for preventative measures but to also make the state and local governments think more critically about land use as they would foot more of the repair bill.

    http://www.pc.gov.au/inquiries/completed/disaster-funding/report/disaster-funding-volume1.pdf

    They never seem to accept the advice they commission

24. JaquixJuly 17, 2017 at 1:51 pm

    Bottom line is that Turnbull hates the Labor States. And takes every opportunity to give them a whack. For a man in his perilous position, this is probably not a great idea. Queensland is going to the polls within the next year, and they wont forget this. Landry ditto. He did something similar during the election campaign in 2016, promising the Gold Coast on a flying visit, that he would provide a few million dollars for the 3-laning of another section of the M1 (part of the main highway which goes around Australia). Trouble was, that amount only came to 20% of the funding needed for that project, not 50% which apparently is the normal ratio. Of course, we got not one dollar, and they dont care because the Gold Coast for some unknown reason always returns Liberals.

25. SGBJuly 17, 2017 at 3:28 pm

    There is of course a reason behind the current governments reluctance to spend money – the need to get that elusive surplus.

    Which really gets my goat because the fact is that the Federal government, as the currecy issuer, can create money from nothing and does so by spending into excistance (see Part V of the RBA Act 1959) whereas the States and Territories are currency issuer’s and thus must earn their money first before spending it.

    John Kelly (and I to a lessor extent) have been trying to get people to understand what it means when the Federal government is a currency issuer, and that currency is not convertible and that currency must be used for citizens to pay their taxes.

    The reason is because once we get the public to understand this absolute fact of economic truth it changes absolutely everything. Welfare, pensions, government services, surplus, deficit, debt, education, health care, unemployent under employment, human rights, poverty, EVERYTHING.

    The government, corporations, banks, could no longer lie and control our rights to a standard of living and human dignity,

    Everyhing in article 25 of the Declaration of Human Rights becomes possible and everything else in there too!

26. SGBJuly 17, 2017 at 3:42 pm

    Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR)
    Article 25
    1. Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and
    well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing
    and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security
    in the event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or
    other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control.
    2. Motherhood and childhood are entitled to special care and assistance. All
    children, whether born in or out of wedlock, shall enjoy the same social
    protection.

27. FreethinkerJuly 17, 2017 at 4:04 pm

    SGB, forget about that, Julie Bishop expects Australia to win UN human rights council seat after France drops out.
    Quote:
    “I have been personally delighted with the level of support that Australia has received from around the world for our bid to serve on the UN human rights council,” she said. “We certainly will have a very vocal voice on the issue of human rights and we’ll bring to it the pragmatic, principled approach that we bring to all our international relations and engagements.”

    To add to the insult one of the present members is South Arabia.

28. Trish CorryJuly 17, 2017 at 5:00 pm

    I nearly choked on my toast when she said that.

29. didisaythataloudJuly 17, 2017 at 5:10 pm

    wow! the number of people here who think that a response to an immediate crisis, where people are suffering NOW, is to give a speech about climate change. Er, yes. Climate change exists. Who said otherwise? Action must be taken. Indeed. But in the meantime…. good grief.

30. corvus boreusJuly 17, 2017 at 5:33 pm

    I guess discussion of the validity of allocating money to Rockhampton for funding mitigation works against future natural disasters (particularly storms and floods) based upon their evident increase in both incidence and costs (both human and financial) can be undertaken without any reference to climate change, but I do not agree that it should be.
    That would rule out science-based inputs that predict such severe coastal weather events as very likely to continue to increase in both severity and frequency,, or that projected acceleration in the rate of global sea-rise will likely drastically increase the impacts of coastal floods and storm-surges.
    Apart from believing that ignoring prevalent scientific theory is not particularly clever, I also reckon that dismissing factors of climate change somewhat weakens the case for funding such regional infrastructure against likely future disasters.

31. Trish CorryJuly 17, 2017 at 5:42 pm

    Do you really think if we keep talking about climate change and “stop Adani” and use our own bags at Woolworths, that it won’t flood in two years time. Elderly people won’t be stranded? Families with little ones won’t be sweltering with no electricity? Diseases from the flood won’t happen? I think a levee mitigating as much stress as possible on people would be the first thought to anyone with a compassionate bone in their body.

32. diannaartJuly 17, 2017 at 7:37 pm

    What happens in Queensland does have implication for the rest of Australia in how we manage natural disasters AND climate pollution (not calling it ‘change’ any more).

    Good that Trish is passionate about QLD, a shame that if QLD does not start to invest into sustainable modes of production – the ripple effect could mean the loss of good arable land in the Murray-Darling basin, more coal mines for Victoria and so it goes…

    Good that Kaye Lee understands that everything is interconnected and sustainability is not just about Queensland.

33. Trish CorryJuly 17, 2017 at 7:51 pm

    Well at least I now know who is compassionate and who is not. Who puts ideological pursuits before people and who has real empathy and not just faux outrage. And that it is more important for some to “prove” their ideology is so “correct and that’s more important than everything else, including people. At least some of the comments on here will make a lot more sense from now on. This is such a disappointing thread. Especially with the inclusion of the videos so people didn’t have to “imagine” what it’s like.

34. corvus boreusJuly 21, 2017 at 7:43 am

    Trish Corry,
    Do you think that if we ignore the science on climate change, or trivialise any mention of its influence on the severity of coastal storms into ‘Stop Adani and use canvas shopping bags’, its effects on people will abate or disappear?
    As shown elsewhere, already declining global Ice coverage has drastically plummeted in the last couple of years, and much of this extra melt has come from land based ice (esp Greenland and Antarctica), which means a serious acceleration in the rate of sea rise.
    If you reckon that such science should not be considered in disaster-mitigation funding submissions and planning for the (already frequently pummeled and inundated) city of Rockhampton (average elevation 11 metres) then you are even more environmentally/ecologically ignorant than I had previously surmised.

35. Trish CorryJuly 21, 2017 at 9:13 am

    Corveous the problem is you misrepresent me. I am not ant climate change. I am pro worker. I believe we can look after both if workers are not ignored. See my response to Keith. Also I published an article this week about disaster funding for the Rockhampton region. A bit of a stretch to accuse me of ignorance. The comments on that post were arguing about whether the discussion should be about climate change, instead of people also. So no awareness of the importance of mitigation funding to protect people was achieved on that one it seems either.

36. corvus boreusJuly 21, 2017 at 4:04 pm

    Trish,
    This is the comment thread on your article on emergency disaster mitigation funding for the Rockhampton area, in my view an entirely justifiable proposal.

    Obviously, the ongoing harm and hardship of people is the worst consequence of storms and floods getting worse and worse.

    The main political machinations around this are far beyond my electoral influence, but, although Christensen seems less the villain in this case, he remains a misogynist, a bigoted extremist and a science-spurning, anti-environmentalist clown.

    My main point is that predicted and prevalent climate change (ie worseing storms, rising seas) is not only relevant to the topic, but actually provides scientific evidence that literally strengthens the case for regional emergency mitigation funding,.
    However, the science and ramifications of increasingly manifest climate change are a subject you often seem reluctant to consider within discussions, hence my accusation of (eco/enviro specific) ignorance.

    Ps, I had mentioned nothing of emission reductions, fossil fuels, mining or Adani, nor even, to my shame, jobs and the humble worker. I do reckon using emergency levies to fund protective levees would probably provide some opportunities for meaningful employment up in your region, but that’s probably a topic for another thread..

37. Trish CorryJuly 21, 2017 at 4:14 pm

    I’m not sure how when I use the words “transition to a post coal world” people confuse that with a post coal stance. Don’t you think advocating really strongly for alternative jobs and highlighting the plight of displaced workers in the inevitable, only strengthens the CC advocates argument if jobs are the main argument for coal? The reason I sound pro Adani is I refuse to accept more unemployment and more economic loss and suffering when no one gives a damn if anything is in its place. No one is bothered to ensure something replaces mining in these regions. It’s all pie in the sky so far. From both activists and politicians. These regions can’t wait another ten years as people do nothing more but celebrate stopping Adani, if they are successful in doing so. I am not pro coal, I’m pro jobs.

38. corvus boreusJuly 21, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    I’m not exactly sure what your reasons for sounding supportive of Adani’s Carmichael River mines project have that to do with the case for emergency federal funding to help alleviate the suffering people experience from the effects of the increasingly frequent and serious storms and floods in and around Rockhampton.

39. Trish CorryJuly 21, 2017 at 4:36 pm

    Oh sorry I’m a bit confused jumping between threads. I thought you said earlier I was ignorant of climate change causing disasters and something about me supporting Adani/ coal mining in another thread. It’s been a long day. Just ignore me.