Is the Bible the same as the Koran?
By Bob Rafto
The Paris terrorist attacks were horrific and like any other terrorist attack they leave a trail of grief for the victims’ families to which I send my sincere condolences.
Like everyone else, I did feel revulsion but was further repulsed by the Muslin haters with Tony Abbott in the forefront sowing seeds of division against Muslims and refugees.
One thing that stuck in my craw was Abbott saying they are coming to get us: us being the infidels, the unbelievers. This led to a train of thought that since I was already aware of beheadings and stonings and other murderous teachings appear both in the Bible and the Koran, what I didn’t know was whether death to the unbeliever appeared in the Bible.
Google didn’t disappoint:
Kill All Unbelievers
“And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God …” (Deuteronomy 13: 5).
“If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers …” (Deuteronomy 13: 6).
“Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people” (Deuteronomy 13:8-9).
“Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword” (Deuteronomy 13:15).
So there it was, another similarity which led to my conclusion that the Koran is the same as the Bible and that the Koran was a plagiarization of the Bible but I needed confirmation and I duly asked Google whether the Bible and the Koran was the same.
The first entry was Pope Francis To Followers: “Koran And Holy Bible Are The Same“. I couldn’t get luckier than that, as this excerpt shows:
During his hour-long speech, a smiling Pope Francis was quoted telling the Vatican’s guests that the Koran, and the spiritual teachings contained therein, are just as valid as the Holy Bible.
“Jesus Christ, Jehovah, Allah. These are all names employed to describe an entity that is distinctly the same across the world. For centuries, blood has been needlessly shed because of the desire to segregate our faiths. This, however, should be the very concept which unites us as people, as nations, and as a world bound by faith. Together, we can bring about an unprecedented age of peace, all we need to achieve such a state is respect each other’s beliefs, for we are all children of God regardless of the name we choose to address him by. We can accomplish miraculous things in the world by merging our faiths, and the time for such a movement is now. No longer shall we slaughter our neighbors over differences in reference to their God”.
Of course there is debate whether plagiarism is involved and some stories diverge in the Koran, but the murderous teachings are the same.
Perhaps it comes down to branding something like Pepsi and Coke as the same drink but with a different name, though both in existence to purely make a profit. Muslim and Christians are all but capitalists in their own right too, by tithing followers in exchange for a product called ‘Solace from God’ and the more followers the greater the profit. (One only has to look at the Vatican where Cardinal Pell found a very lazy 3 billion dollars that wasn’t accounted for).
And so it goes: America (for example – and the best one) starts wars and we become hostile when the folk who have had American bombs rained on them turn around and inflict carnage in our cities, and since the Iraq war we are seeing the second coming of exodus but for these refugees there is no promised land, the borders are closed and refugee haters, Howard, Rudd, Gillard, Shorten, Abbott and Turnbull have ensured our borders are closed but the government will determine who comes here and under what circumstances … and as long as they are Christian.
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Friday
Return to home pageThe Muslims, Christians and Judaists all trace their origins back to Abraham and many of the Old Testament books are shared!
So we’re going to stick to the official line that the murderers in Paris acted to punish non-believers? We remain convinced that religion was the main (only) motivation?
Well this promises to be a useful discussion.
/sarcasm
The Koran isn’t the bible and Muhammad wasn’t Jesus. Muslims are people who follow the faith of Islam, but they aren’t Islam which is a dogma.
Islam’s dogma is submission to Allah voiced in the Koran as Suras delivered through Muhammad, the ideal man and Allah’s final prophet.
The living example of Islam’s ideal man, Mohammad is described in the Sunnah as Haddiths. Therefore what the Koran says and what the prophet said and did is Islam.
The Koran’s Suras aren’t in chronological order rather by length shortest to longest however by abrogation though all perfect latter is an improvement on former. By those rules the 2nd last Sura, number 9, of 129 verses is followed by last Sura, number 110 of only 3 verses.
Go read Sura 9, it is a vicious call to global totalitarianism. Polytheists and atheists must convert or die Jews and Christians must convert or submit to dhimmitude.
As mirrored in the Koran Muhammad’s career as prophet has two halves the original peaceful but unsuccessful Meccan half and the vicious and totalitarian but wildly successful latter Median half.
By the time Muhammad returned from exile in Medina to Mecca to convert the Khabba from a polytheistic fertility shrine he had become a theocratic warlord commanding an army of jihardists. Muhammad had taken a child bride, engaged in mass slaughter and the taking of slaves for sex, trade or labor and had killed or had killed anyone who mocked his claimed relationship with God.
So no, Jesus who made a lot of metaphysical threats but only ever violently turned over the temple money chargers tables isn’t Muhammad and the Bible isn’t like the Koran.
We can spin, ignore or lie all we want but the leader of ISIS who has a PhD of Islamic studies from Baghdad knows the above.
Thank whatever you like that the vast majority of Muslim’s don’t practice what Muhammad did and preached.
Frankly I think all religions are nonsense and only serve to incite violence at worst and one upmanship at best.
Someone on facebook said “Grown men talking about their invisible friend” says it all really!
All 3 religions share the same Old Testament.
However, Christianity was the result of a New Testament commissioned by Constantine to get all versions of Christianity (and there were several sects fighting among themselves for domination at the time) to come up with a single version they could all agree on.
Judaeism does not recognise Jesus as their Messiah (who is yet to arrive) and their unique beliefs stem from an additional extension called the Torah.
Islam recognises Jesus as a Prophet but base their additional beliefs on the story of Mohammed via an additional interpretation called the Haddith.
Christianity has had a series of additional prophets since Jesus (including Joseph Smith, who founded Mormonism). There are about 10,000 religions calling themselves “Christian”.
When it comes to hateful statements, these also appear frequently in the Torah, which considers non-Jews as “cattle” (goyim) and sub-human. While it may be a capital offence to murder on non-Jew it is not considered a mortal sin.
A significant part of the New Testament is a series of statements and stories borrowed and adapted from other religions to make it “all things to all people”.
As for “child brides” it was historically common for men of that era to marry very young girls but not consumate the marriage until they reached a certain age.
Jesus’ mother Mary would have been about 13 when she married Joseph and is alleged to have still been a virgin – a matter conveniently overlooked.
What they all share is periods of of mutual intolerance, disdain and violence, which is basically the function of all tribal societies.
It is interesting to see how we can pluck out quotations from the Bible or the Koran to “confirm” whatever we want to say. We have the vengeful, smiting God of the Old Testament and the God of love in the New Testament; “an eye for an eye” in the OT and “turn the other cheek” in the NT. So we have the promise after the Flood of the Fire next time, the Apocalypse and the Battle of Armageddon, the promise of a physical resurrection and a heaven for some and not for others One really has to believe with unquestioning faith in order to accommodate these teachings promulgated and compiled so long ago.
So how does it work in practice? On one side of the country we have people being welcomed with open arms, while on islands off the coast on the other side we have people imprisoned for years in a hell-hole because they dared to come by boat.
Such contradiction and hypocrisy beggars belief.
Religion- the biggest con on the human race ever and, most likely unbeatable as far as cons go.Catholics pushed their “god” on us all to every corner of the earth.
What the three religious groups have in common is the books of the Old Testament which is essentially the history of the Jews who were descended from Abraham.
There were other tribes – like the Samaritans – who resulted from intermarriage between Jews and other tribes while in exile in Babylon as well as numerous other semitic people
The Jews and the Samaritans share some of the same holy books but not all..
The new Testament is concerned with the life of Jesus in the four gospels and then the work of his disciples and of Paul – who was converted by a vision on the road to Damascus.
The Koran is largely the teachings of Muhammed, whom the Muslims regard as the greatest prophet and who recognised Jesus as a prophet.
That is a very sketchy outline but the main point is that all three groups believed in one god and in a life hereafter.
There have certain been times when there was no hate by the Muslims of the infidels who believed that Christ was more important than Muhammed.
Like the Christian faith which has numerous sects, with very strong animosity between some of them, so also there are many sects in Islam and similar animosities.
Personally I couldn’t give a toss about religion, think about it, As parents and a first born is expected,you wonder if you’re getting pink or blue, you have no choice, however technology is changing that, Death is similar if one believes in Heaven and Hell and a lot of good folk arrange their lives to go to heaven but there’s no guarantee or money back policy and technology has not advanced that far.
It’s generally acknowledged that there is a Highway to Hell and a stairway to heaven. That says it all doesn’t it? the traffic is on the highway, maybe it’s a herd instinct.
But on a serious note and regardless whether you’re a believer or an infidel, Pope Francis in part of his speech said, “Together, we can bring about an unprecedented age of peace, all we need to achieve such a state is respect each other’s beliefs, for we are all children of God regardless of the name we choose to address him by.”
‘unprecedented age of peace’ ‘we are all children of God’ he said, words that should inspire our world leaders, but no, back to business with killings and more killings, which raises the question, “Is the Pope relevant anymore?
Even Cardinal Pell showed disrespect with his climate denial stance and for Abbott the Pope is another body in his way when he speaks the word of God.
And a word on the side, I saw a posting on Fb quoting the Texan governor I think, who said something like this “We can’t have refugees here, guns are too readily available.
This website is essentially a database of moral confusion. To empathise with ISIS terrorists is lower than anything I expected to find here. Would relish in news of the author being killed by one of these attacks.
So, Brett, you seem to be supporting the terrorists there.
Brett,
Your comment is both intellectually bereft in suggesting that the post in any way expressed empathy with the murderous daesh, and morally repugnant, ending in a salivating glee at the thought-wish of the death of another human being.
Hey Brett
Your wish could come true, follow this link https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10206461215061662&set=a.1209658834111.33400.1007919909&type=3&theater and may I ask what sort of relish is it that you use that arouses you to ponder murderous pursuits?
and may I conclude that the Pope’s dream ‘unprecedented age of peace’ is only a pipedream becos of folks like you that relish in murder.
Brett will not be able to answer. He has been blocked from making further comment.
I beg to disagree, but I don’t have the call.
Bob, you should be able to post something here without someone coming on to say they hope you die. It won’t be tolerated.
The interpretation of the bible-like books only vary by the power of men.
Currently, Muslim men take no cognisance of women and treat them honestly and openly as to their masculine interpretative belief.
Christianity, whilst not affording women equality, has moved to give women some say in some areas of religious worship.
It is unforunate that most women are indoctrinated to defer to men in every bible based religion.
The blasphemy laws are designed to prevent discussion that might lead to questioning of faith.
If women could allow themselves to question men, at least about interpretations that are vagina centric, the motive for murder in all three religions could disappear, taking child mutilation and dietary restriction with it.
Michael we all going to die eventually whether Brett wishes it or not and I would relish to put him down as nicely as possible if he did choose to respond.
It wasn’t Michael.
It doesn’t matter, I wasn’t going to make an issue of it. smiley face.
Could it be than many commit evil deeds DESPITE religion rather than because of it.?
Good call The AIM Network. Good call.
Disagreement – Yes. Wishing somebody dead – No.
I am not religious but I believe in Christian ways when it comes to how I interact with other people, it is a pity that most people who go to church every Sunday don’t practise what was preached to them. Whenever I think of religion I think of Bob Marley and his devotion to Rastafarianism and wonder if he was drawn in to the cult because of the philosophy or because they smoked lots of really good dope? A similar question could be asked of people who follow other religions, are they devoted to the philosophy, involved because to keep up an image or are they obsessed?
Wisdom Weed
The “sacrament” of Rastafarianism is ganja (marijuana), called the “wisdom weed.” Leaders urge adherents to smoke marijuana as a religious ritual. Supposedly, marijuana was found growing on Solomon’s grave, and it is claimed that there is biblical support for the spiritual use of “pot” – in scripture texts such as Exodus 10:12; Psalms 104:14, which suggest that “herbs” were created for man.
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/868-what-is-rastafarianism-who-was-bob-marley
Getting stoned pacifies people, it may be extreme but much better than brooding terrorists.
Brett November 19, 2015 at 6:53 pm said:
.
Indeed it is Ethics and like are always ‘confused’. For some it’s about ‘right’ and ‘wrong’ while for others it’s about the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’.
For some it’s about the ‘intention’, (usually the right and wrong brigade) while for others it’s about the ‘outcomes’ (the good and bad postulators). In many ways, such arguments, are ‘polar opposites’ (perhaps).
But there’s a third way (of sorts), make your judgements (knowing the arguments alluded to above – but certainly not explored in detail) based on a particular situation at a particular time.
@Zathras… the New Testatment is quite clear in numerous verse’s that the Old Testament teachings are NOT to be ignored but practiced also…
Both the Old and New Testament are considered by all mainstream branches of Christianity to be“ just as inspired as the New Testament.” The New Testament itself affirms the accuracy of the Old Testament:
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
More importantly, as Catholic.com says: “Scripture — all of Scripture — is inspired by God (2 Tim. 3:16). This means that the Old Testament is just as inspired as the New Testament and thus an expression of the will of Christ.” And thereby relevant in modern Christianity.
.
@IAO PRISM The Qu’ran expressly and unambiguously prohibits the use of coercion in faith because coercion would violate a fundamental human right—the right to a free conscience. A different belief system is not deemed a legitimate cause for violence or war under Islamic law. The Quran is categorical on this: “There shall be no compulsion in religion” (2:256); “Say to the disbelievers [that is, atheists, or polytheists, namely those who reject God] “To you, your beliefs, to me, mine” (109:1-6)”
In 628 C.E. Prophet Muhammad (s) granted a Charter of Privileges to the monks of St. Catherine Monastery in Mt. Sinai. It consisted of several clauses covering all aspects of human rights including such topics as the protection of Christians, freedom of worship and movement, freedom to appoint their own judges and to own and maintain their property, exemption from military service, and the right to protection in war.
An English translation of that document is presented below.
This is a message from Muhammad ibn Abdullah, as a covenant to those who adopt Christianity, near and far, we are with them.
Verily I, the servants, the helpers, and my followers defend them, because Christians are my citizens; and by Allah! I hold out against anything that displeases them.
No compulsion is to be on them.
Neither are their judges to be removed from their jobs nor their monks from their monasteries.
No one is to destroy a house of their religion, to damage it, or to carry anything from it to the Muslims’ houses.
Should anyone take any of these, he would spoil God’s covenant and disobey His Prophet. Verily, they are my allies and have my secure charter against all that they hate.
No one is to force them to travel or to oblige them to fight.
The Muslims are to fight for them.
If a female Christian is married to a Muslim, it is not to take place without her approval. She is not to be prevented from visiting her church to pray.
Their churches are to be respected. They are neither to be prevented from repairing them nor the sacredness of their covenants.
No one of the nation (Muslims) is to disobey the covenant till the Last Day (end of the world).
http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/charter1.html
In seventh-century Arabia, adulthood was defined as the onset of puberty (which is also how it is defined in the bible, by the way). (This much is true, and was also the case in Europe: five centuries after Muhammad’s marriage to Aisha, 33-year-old King John of England married 12-year-old Isabella of Angoulême.) Interestingly, of the many criticisms of Muhammad made at the time by his opponents, none focused on Aisha’s age at marriage.
According to this perspective, Aisha may have been young, but she was not younger than was the norm at the time.
(In fact girls could legally marry at the age of 12 in Australia right up until 1961. In 1961 law, marriageable age was set at 16 for females and 18 for males, but the age was equalised in 1991 by the Sex Discrimination Amendment Act 1991[4] which raised the marriageable age of females to 18.)
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/belief/2012/sep/17/muhammad-aisha-truth
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-david-liepert/islamic-pedophelia_b_814332.html
http://www.fountainmagazine.com/Issue/detail/At-What-Age-Did-Aisha-Marry-the-Prophet
http://www.dawn.com/news/696084/of-aishas-age-at-marriage
@Friday Yet… Islam in the sixth century gave women the power to vote, trade, seek knowledge, own property, maintain their name after marriage and to divorce if they so willed (during a time when women were viewed as mere objects of possession by the patriarchs of western society).
Muslim countries laws do not always reflect what the Qu’ran and the Islam religion says…
http://www.islamswomen.com/articles/do_muslim_women_have_rights.php
I wish you could upvote things here. Any chance that could be coming soon ? It would save my typing shit with bad, sore hands….I could probably even work on a donation….(ask the boss, I mean).
; )
JeffJL To be pedantic on “Disagreement – Yes. Wishing somebody dead – No.”
Wishing is probably quite fine if you stick to the rules of keeping wishes secret and don’t act to see them come true…….but I entirely see what you mean and that is a big red line to cross in this case.
I think there is also a case for hyperbole….as in the commonly seen or heard “Just drop dead..”
Kingswood Country would have had no jokes if it weren’t for hyperbole…. (I just wanted an excuse to bring up Kingswood Country te he)
So, have we worked out which faith is the most bloody minded? Because that’s where the ruling class wants to focus our attention!
Now, for those who suspect that religion is NOT the primary reason for this horrible state of affairs:
http://www.juancole.com/2015/01/terrorist-radicalized-torture.html
there seems to be an overriding confusion here that the problem is which religion is correct. Let’s face it, they are all the product of “man” unable to face the fact of aloneness. Man has made god in his own image and then hypnotised himself to believe his own fairy story.
The cause of war, whatever war” comes down to greed. Greed for money/resources, greed for power and/or greed for more adherents to the participants particular fairy story.
‘The ability of thinking human beings to blindly embrace what they are being told without referring to evaluation and the consideration of scientific fact, truth and reason,never ceases to amaze me. It is tantamount to the rejection of rational explanation’
@John Lord… aahhhh… Like trickle-down economics, right?
All branches of the (somewhat fractured) abrahamic family have common root beliefs.
God is entirely singular, and people with penises are the reflective image of this male deity.
The skies and stars, the earth and all life thereon, were all made for the dominion and convenience of homo sapiens with external genitalia (that includes women).
God hates intellectual curiousity and ethical learning, and tolerates no worship of rivals.
He enjoys the blood-sacrifice of young meat (including a fetish for foreskins), but has dietary taboos (also not so fond of salads).
He frequently sanctions slaughter and conquest in return for symbolic adherence to his dictates.
He periodically purges the planet, and predeterminately intends to end all earthly existence through ultimate.apocalypse.
I think that generational indoctrination in ‘He’ worship is one of the central pillars propping up some of the biggest problems facing us.
Ps, re; “external genitalia (that includes women)”
I realise that human female do not protrude down below.
I meant to refer to doctrinal sexism in man-god monotheism, but managed to mangle the structure of my sentence.
Chris TGD. Bringing up a reference to Kingswood Country is always allowed. 🙂
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Good one Corvus, had a laugh about protruding, but ‘santioned slaughter’?? Maybe the devil is a human invention and god arranges the ‘slaughter’ to test our faith??
As for gentitalia god and his men may stretch your point to women having two distinct areas of soft core up above to complement the two hard core areas down below
All perfectly placed to deflect any interest in the female brain!!!