Tony Abbott’s ‘Scottish’ gaffe wraps up what has been another gaffe-ridden week from a gaffe-ridden government, writes Vivien Fleming.
In a week when we all thought no one could top Treasurer Joe Hockey’s comments about the poor not having cars, or not driving them too far, our “Esteemed Leader” Tony Abbott has now infuriated supporters of Scottish independence. Whilst Sloppy Joe was putting his foot even deeper into his mouth and clearly exhibiting the depth of his ideological disdain for all but the top 1% of society, Sir Pository was escaping the storm of the previous weeks’ Septimana Horribilis in Europe. Under the delusion that he is a respected “World Leader”, Sir Pository found time during his tax payer funded junket to grace the shores of the Old Dart.
Whilst in the London Sir Pository spoke to The Times and told reporter Giles Whittell that:
“As a friend of Britain, as an observer from afar, it’s hard to see how the world would be helped by an independent Scotland.
“I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect… are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”
The criticism of this unsolicited diatribe was swift with the Scottish First Minister, Alex Salmond, responding on BBC Scotland that:
“Mr Abbott’s comments are hypocritical because independence does not seem to have done Australia any harm.
“They are foolish, actually, because of the way he said it. To say the people of Scotland who supported independence weren’t friends of freedom or justice, I mean, the independence process is about freedom and justice.”
Nine News has further reported that Mr Salmond stated on the BBC on Saturday that:
“He’s previously insulted the indigenous people of Australia, he’s insulted women in Australia, now he’s insulting Scots Australians – I don’t know if there’ll be anybody left for Mr Abbott to insult.”
Clearly Mr Salmond is more conversant with Australian politics than our English born Prime Minister is of the Scottish Independence debate. Sir Pository, who chose only to take out Australian citizenship at the age of 23 to receive a Rhodes Scholarship, caused outrage and offense to indigenous Australians in July when he supported the legal fiction that Australia was Terra Nullius (Latin: Land belonging to no one) at the time of British occupation:
“As a general principle we support foreign investment. Always have and always will. …Our country is unimaginable without foreign investment. I guess our country owes its existence to a form of foreign investment by the British government in the then unsettled or, um, scarcely settled, Great South Land.”
Sir Pository is infamous for his insults to women. In his 20-member Cabinet, only one woman was sufficiently meritorious to warrant a place in its hallowed halls. Abbott was quick to defend his position by stating:
”There are some very good and talented women knocking on the door of the cabinet and there are lots of good and talented women knocking on the door of the ministry.”
Perhaps the most famous of Abbott’s anti-women quotes is from the beginning of his journey into politics. As a member of Sydney University’s Student Representative Council in 1979 Sir Pository stated:
“It think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons”.
Not surprisingly YES Scotland has pilloried Sir Pository’s interference. A comical Tweet presents a faux announcement from the Australian High Commission London under the hand of Sir Les Patterson. Naturally, Sir Les is pictured on a toilet seat with his pants down.
The Australian public waits with bated breath for news on the latest victims of the Foot in Mouth Epidemic currently sweeping through COALition ranks.
This article was first posted on The Abbott Proof Fence and has been republished with permission.
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Re: the quote ”There are some very good and talented women knocking on the door of the cabinet and there are lots of good and talented women knocking on the door of the ministry.”
If i’m remembering correctly, it was Mia Freedman on an episode of Q&A earlier this year that said ‘he needs to understand they’re not there to sell avon’.
I thought it was a fantastic comment and just summed up this dinosaur beautifully.
Effing Sassanach
Re: the quote ”There are some very good and talented women knocking on the door of the cabinet and there are lots of good and talented women knocking on the door of the ministry.”
It was me who said, “And we say come on because we’re ready for you to serve the tea and coffee now”!
Either that or the ironings piling up.
iNCOMPETENT aDULTS IN CHARGE!
Keystone Cops?
Various ministers playing the 3 stooges?
Bolt,Jones, Hadlee and Pickering the impressario’s of the iNCOMPETENT aDULTS IN CHARGE.?
Tragicomedy?
High Farce?
Perhaps, a little bit sad?
To add further to Joe’s woes, he was filmed and aired on Channel 9 hogging a disabled parking spot and when questioned about taking up the spot, he said that ‘The Age of enfeeblement is over.. Okay, I borrowed the last line, but it did happen and the pic can be seen here https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203339661304769&set=gm.729900650416564&type=1&theater
and the video on CH9 website.
A cartoon from the SMH on assessing women for cabinet on the basis of their sex appeal – http://images.smh.com.au/2013/09/16/4753029/art-353-cartoon-20pm-300×0.jpg
” as an observer from afar ” ….. ???
Observer – correct. From afar – correct. – – – – – He should mind his own bloody business.
“They are foolish, actually, because of the way he said it. ” ……. ‘we’ didn’t say it and most likely don’t think it – most of us that is.
HE said it – the bloody fool that he is. ( ref. the Scots and how they should do a, b, c, …. according to the ‘esteemed’ Prime Minister of our land ???? But when he opens his big gob, WE share the blame ….. by association. ….. &#$%@#$% hell …. and then some.
AND he said :
“It think it would be folly to expect that women will ever dominate or even approach equal representation in a large number of areas simply because their aptitudes, abilities and interests are different for physiological reasons”.
He said that in 1979 … but nothing has changed in his attitudes – in reality. Nothing. “Physiological reasons” ? … What an arrogant piece of work he is.
It amazes me that he was able to have a family franklly. God responds in strange ways … ( if you are a believer ) …. and he ended up with a wife ( who seems to be a very very nice person, but looks harrowed to the enth degree ) and TWO daughters. Oh horror. One who ended up getting a scholarship to a prestigious university, under dubious conditions. AND he has to deal with a sister who is homosexual. He must be up to his ears in it. !!!! Poor poor man …. ( sarcasm ).
As for the quote on talented women etc.etc. yada yada ….. he simply hasn’t the foggiest clue. It has nothing to do with gender … it has to do with capability for a job. You bloody idiot.
When – and how – can we rid ourselves of this pariah. That’s what he has made of himself – a social [ and political ] outcast of the worst kind.
He should keep his trap shut, things are not going very well at home.
I’m not usually one to judge a person on physical appearances, but just look at this mug…. Is that creepy, or what?! https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Prime_Minister_Tony_Abbott.jpg
“Observer – correct. From afar – correct. – – – – – He should mind his own bloody business.”
He was *asked* his opinion. He did not offer an “unsolicited” opinion anymore than Barack Obama and 17 other world leaders who were asked about it did. Economically, Scotland’s independence has global economic ramifications. It’s not just their business.
Abbott’s only crime in this is that he’s incapable of expressing himself like a person who is not blindedly partisan – or who isn’t a stupid cockhead. His view on Scottish independence isn’t remotely unique.
This article is a gaffe, to be candid.
Sorry, I regret that last post. There are much more important things to criticise rather than taking the low road and bagging someone’s face (although, I maintain I don’t think I’ve seen a sincere smile out of him).
Bob…. It may have repercussions for the rest of the world but that doesn’t negate Scotland’s right to hold a democratic referendum but then have leaders of other countries that have already decided to choose independence tell them that supporters of such a notion are ‘enemies of freedom and justice’. That’s just insulting.
Garth,
I’m not saying Abbott’s remarks weren’t bizarre. They were. I don’t even understand them, and I defy anyone to sensibly interpret them. But more than one world leader is against Scottish independence and we’ve not told them they have no right to an opinion. I think the problem here is Abbott’s known penchant for – whatever the opposite of diplomatic language is. He’s a boofhead. He smiles like a boof. Not sure that means it isn’t genuione in some way. He’s just too much of a pinhead ot be PM. But what does that say about Australians who voted Liberal?
Bob, my apologies. Couldn’t agree more.
@Garth,
It’s full ok lad. Abbott’s a strange one, with turns of phrase that he best unlearn if he can. Symbolically, romantically and ideally I’d love to see Scottish independence, but only if they improve their freakin’ whiskey.
Bob F,
As I remarked to you on another thread, the problem does not lie with Mr Abbott expressing a view on his preference for the outcome of the referendum, it lies in him denigrating and vilifying proponents and supporters of Scottish independence, and making vague threats of diplomatic reprisals for other nations expressing support for the notion. This goes way beyond the views expressed by other national leaders.
It goes beyond Abbott being a pin or boof head, it is about an inappropriately belligerent approach to politics and diplomacy.
Domestically, Mr Abbott refers to negotiations with the Greens as ‘dealing with the devil’.
With his theological training, this means he believes and states that over 1 in 10 Australian voters vote for the party of Satan, agent and instigator of all that is evil and perverse. An irrational and offensive statement, and one that hurts our national cohesion.
He is unable to speak in a way that does not cause insult, offense and division.
He is unable to even visit the border of the Koreas without getting into a chest-puff death-stare pissing contest with a North Korean border guard.
He is an unstable compound trying to manufacture a spark.
Btw, to the “editor” – the original author of this piece did not use the word” gaffe” once in her article. I suggest it’s a problem that you used it thrice – wrongly – in your intro of it. Saying something you think is politically stupid is not a gaffe.
<
Right wing Paul Sheehan over at Fairfax Media has written an article that actually tells the truth about Noel Pearson.
Another Abbott fcuk up that is finally biting him on the arse.
corvus boreus,
I may or may not agree with you about Abbott’s “Scotland” comments. I don’t know how to interpret them. I agree on face value they are more meaningful than other comments by world leaders, but then I haven’t seen the full text of those leaders’ comments, so I don’t know.
Basically, I’m not prepared to judge the statements of Abbott against others without proper knowledge of those other etc etc etc….
I’m not prepared to judge Abbott more harshly on this just because we know he’s a ?????????
I’d like to know the precise nature of Tony Abbott’s thoughts on Scottish independence but I suppose we won’t get that till someone tells Abbott what they are. Could take a while.
Bob Farnside. I’m the author of this article and I’m sorry that you consider it to be a “gaffe”. By your own admission you’ve acknowledged that Abbott has difficulties speaking diplomatically. Whilst he may (or may not) have been asked a question about Scottish independence by The Times reporter, the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond, certainly infers that the comments by Abbott are neither solicited nor appreciated.
I feel that Corvus Boreous has best articulated the article’s intent. It’s not that Abbott publicly expressed a view on Scottish independence, but rather that vilified proponents of independence as not being friends of justice and freedom. What absolute hogwash! I guess we can just be glad that he didn’t accuse them of being terrorists or sought to draw some bizarre parallel between the Scottish Independence movement and the IRA in Northern Ireland.
Cheers
Vivien.
<
@twistie1
Bloody lucky Abbott didn't treat the Scotland the same way he did Russia.
The way things are going Australia will be right up there with Israel as one of the most hated countries on planet Earth.
Well said John!
Well, technically it’ll only be a gaffe if you recant, so it won’t be that so much as trash writing. But it’s crowd appealing trash, so that’s always a good thing.
He has more than a difficulty, he has an incapacity; poor man.
With respect, people who can’t tell the difference between implication and inference should never write publicly. That aside, world leaders, including Barack Obama, were asked their opinion. The stupidity of Abbott’s response, although entirely and sadly predictable, was not unsolicited.
On the face of it, his statement – what we saw of it – was weird as hell, but I don’t actually know what he meant. I don’t believe you do, either. Do you?
Or that his dick is 666 inches long.
<
S.e.m.a.n.t.i.c.s.
Except for ….. "his dick is 666 inches long" ….. I can believe this , how else would Abbott be such a huge wanker.
Sadly …. for Abbott …. 665 inches of it are up his rectum and of no use to man or animal.
@ Corvus … you have succinctly applied logic to it all again …. well done.
*****
@ Bob Fanside ….. If, by your own admission, ” I don’t even understand them, and I defy anyone to sensibly interpret them ” perhaps you could keep your opinions to yourself – on this matter anyway. You quoted a couple of my sentences at one stage – and then talked about Abbotts comments not being ‘unsolicited’. Well, I’ll be damned – from a person who doesn’t understand what Abbott’s words meant ?
I thought they were pretty clear myself. What he said was ( to refresh your memory ) :
“I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect … are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”
It is very very clear to me, exactly what he was saying and meant. It doesn’t matter whether he was being interviewed or not, asked or not … it’s the WAY a person responds, especially as the leader of country as Abbott is supposed to be …. that matters. Yes, he’s a boofhead, and has no way with words whatsoever. I would have thought by now he’d realise that, especially after the drubbing he has received in the press recently. Yet on he goes – opening his large mouth and insulting all – near and far, because a) he believe it is his inalienable right to do so, and b) because he simply – can.
As for calling this article a ‘gaffe’ …. how wrong you are. I would ask you respectfully, to mind your manners.
<
Lots of interesting appearances at ICAC this week.
For me … this is the interesting one :
John Hart – chairman of the North Sydney Forum, a fund-raising entity attached to the Liberal Party federal electoral conference in Australian Treasurer Hockey's seat of North Sydney and, CEO of Restaurant and Catering Australia, the national lobby group for the hospitality industry.
Thursday 21 August.
I wonder if Brian Loughnane will get another mention ?
John, don’t use the word “semantics” when you don’t know what it means.
Anne,
So, what did he mean? I really don’t know.
<
@Bob Fanside
Sorry mate.
I thought i was speaking to someone with a basic understanding of the English language.
Finished with you now !
the dogs bark but the caravan moves on
@John Fraser
That’s cool. Don’t want to engage with the resident troll whom no-one will recognise as being that.
@ Bob Fanside. Wouldn’t be hard to think that you are doing a bit of a trolling yourself here ? Stirring in other words. Perhaps you don’t know what that means either.
If you seriously do NOT know the meaning of the phrases Abbott used to lambast Scotland for wanting independancy from Great Britain …. which incidentally has been on the agenda for decades – – on again, off again – have had other referendums etc. ( or didn’t you know that either ) …. then I am not wasting any more of my time typing the whole thing out for you. Scotland was originally an independent country – way back when, btw.
I would now suggest you take each word “friends”, “freedom “, ” justice”, “prospect” etc…. and look them all up in your on-line Funk and Wagnall. You might get a better idea then.
Anne,
Your attempt at explaining Abbott’s words are appreciated, but not especially helpful as you didn’t actually explain them. Thanks anyway.
Bob F,
sigh.
Anne did not offer or attempt to elucidate or explain the meaning of those simple words to you(I believe she concluded that couldn’t be arsed).
She suggested you look them up for your own education and comprehension so you could infer their implications and draw a conclusion.
There is semantics and there is pedantic sophistry.
One is meaningfully useful, the other is, I conclude, a quibbling waste of time and effort.
<
@Bob Fanside
"That’s cool. Don’t want to engage with the resident troll whom no-one will recognise as being that."
https://theaimn.com/lnp-dirty-tricks/
Wipe your face.
Its getting to be a real embarrassment.
I treat most things I say like they are going to change the world, even though they probably wont, yet this mob and certain complimentary MSM speak apparently oblivious to potential consequence, even though there probably will be; they need a reality check.
It is not a ‘gaffe’ to state your political opinion – however blatantly stupid and reactionary.
In fact this gangsters’ Government has a helpful propensity to flagrant assertions of the inequitable – more helpful to progressive politics than any attempts of Labor to gain traction with the rotten Media.
The MSM are working overtime to normalise these weird, nasty blockheads; as if just another Government prone to ‘gaffes’.
They are not gaffes. They are pronouncements. In Government they now broaden their references of contempt and wishes to harm – to include just about anyone not a tax-free billionaire or any of their countless flunkies.
For example it is not a gaffe for Joyce to offer sympathy to the gunman who shot until dead the Conservation officer. It is his judgement, no slip of the tongue. It is the judgement of a twisted piece of crap representative of the Cabinet the mug electorate have put in power, because they were told to. Also, no gaffe. Nothing accidental.
What does Abbott really think? You can hear it most days, the resentment and revenge-bent enmity for equity. That is his thought; the extent of it. Except that he is clumsy-coy about how he couches his extreme intolerance for anything but established power. But you get the idea. No point waiting for the clarification. It is clear enough.
It is not ‘foot-in-the-mouth’. It is mouth dreaming of ordering another boot to the head. It is mouth assuming it can get away with just about anything after the triumphant defamation of Gillard and Labor. Endorsed by the sports-lovin’ populace, who love the spectacle of a good beating, particularly if it is unfair. Get tough with them Russians now Tones.
These beasts are still in the schoolyard, running intimidations, scams and reprisals.
Why deplore their ‘gaffes’ if they are the best hope for some future return to a semblance of a progressive governing? The comments by these odious dills keep the Media’s Public paying some attention; as surely this Public has shown conclusively that it does not have the mental capacity to attend to the details of policy, however relevant to their welfare.
Uor Prym Monista, has been perfeckly intewn with daavidd cameroon in declairing the Uknighted Kingdumb Sacrosantatis.
These boys of londinium proudly sing an impending disaster if scotland leaves the UK.
Ow od, these pommie pollies have neither a need of nor respect for the scots.
Why did the PMs go from ridiculous to serious and both make such a nasty statement?
From Australian perspective, it was just another rabbottian gaffe but from a Scottish point of view it will make certain of a stack of pro-Scotland votes.
Why???
Perhaps they believe the two references to Scotland in the UK national anthem?
‘May he sedition hush and like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the King.’
‘confound their politics, Frustrate their knavish tricks…’.
Most english people are frightened by the intensity of northern friendship, the skirl of the pipes and the Scots accent. So support for separation is high amongst the english and the two men are firmly of that ilk with the rabbott, once again, clearly demonstrating the power of birthplace.
What crap I write:
he is so ignorant as to lumber the scots with our senator Cameron and he and his mentor Cameron believe Westminster may remain conservative without the Scots.
Corvus,
I am not dealing in semantics. I quite literally don’t know what the hell Abbott was getting at. Naturally I understand the words he used, and placed together in a different context they might have made sense; but I can’t make them work in the context of a Scottish referendum on independence. They read like off the cuff gibberish to me, like Abbott just threw out whatever words came to mind. Whose/what freedom? Whose/what “justice”?
You seem to know exactly what he meant. Can’t you just explain it to this apparent dimwit?
Oh, duh. He’s talking about nations that he believes just want to see the West become more fractured for the hell of it, right? And those nations – mostly Muslim, probably – are not friends of freedom and justice? Is that it? If that’s not it, I’m stumped.
<
@Bob Fanside
"Troll", "semantics" "trash writing" "Oh,duh"
I notice you still haven't gotten around to wiping your face .
Starting to look comical with a smattering of loser around your posts.
“I quite literally don’t know what the hell Abbott was getting at”.
But you have attacked everyone here.
Bob Fanside
Your drivel has no rime or reason other than to express the voice of ignorance and incoherence. It may help to read a book on propositional logic before you start assuming incoherence from Abbott’s clear insult to the people of Scotland regardless of political persuasion. The guy is an ignoramus and fool stupefied by delusions of grandeur and egocentric narcissism. Takes a fool to justify and rationalize a fool. Your vain attempts to appear to be sitting on the fence are transparent to all who read your waffle. Your attacks upon respected bloggers on this site are seen for what they are ignorant and deluded.
Do us a favour and piss off.
@stephentardrew – Hear, hear!
<
@stephentardrew
According to Bob Fanside I have no idea what you meant in your first paragraph.
But I fully understand your last paragraph and heartily agree.
Stephen,
I’m not sitting on any fence. Anyone who has read my posts in this thread could see that clearly. If Abbott’s meaning – and supposed insult to Scotland is so blindingly obvious (and distinct from all the other world leaders, including the Pope, who have come out against Scottish independence) why has not a single person in this thread been able to express it? I’m being genuinely honest about my unclear understanding of what Abbott was on about and you call me a fool? I don’t understand that at all.
Abbott is virtually incapable of saying anything intelligent, so I’m trying to be careful not to project any intelligent meaning onto his words. Why can’t a single one of you simply say what you think he meant? In what way were his statements more of an insult to Scotland than what has been said by multiple world leaders?
I understand perfectly well what a manipulative, exploitative and opportunistic trollop Abbott is. I’m simply trying to interpret him correctly. Why is that such a crime?
Bob F,
What he meant was to (irrationally) sledge people who disagreed with his perspective against Scottish independence. He is a lying, cheating, sledging hatemonger by lifelong pattern, and regularly draws absolute lines of conflict between himself and others of differing viewpoints.
As to which other countries he referred to, I draw a blank as well. I am not in touch with my inner reptilian nutjob/conman.
P.s the difference between his statements and those of others has been pointed out repeatedly by myself and others; the derogatory and inflammatory language used.
I disagree with you.
You hate freedom.
Two different messages.
Bob Fanside.
You can never interpret another person statements correctly unless you are in their head. Philosophical problem of other minds. look it up. There is a language common to all and the meaning is obvious and clear. You are not the thought police so give it a miss and let others express their opinions without this rambling dogmatic drivel.
The rabbott thinks senator Cameron represents the scots. Therefore Australia would be better off if he went home taking his scots union bosses with him and England would be better without Scottish politics and knavish tricks. Remember there is only x5 million scots Westminster won’t miss em.
Corvus,
“As to which other countries he referred to, I draw a blank as well.”
That’s basically the point of my lack of clarity. I don’t know who he’s referring to, and why. It seems to me he was referring to nations who for nefarious reasons would be happy to see the UK split apart, not independence minded Scots themselves.
I don’t know. I’m not sure anyone does, which is why I question how up in arms everyone is. No-one seems to know for sure yet everyone’s all pissed off about it. It’s a little bit surreal.
Abbott always has to go that step too far. No other world leader has said anything remotely like what Abbott said. His comments were indeed insulting.
“I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect… are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.”
I can feel another “act of contrition” coming up – oh wait….we only say sorry to people who will take our refugees and even then he can’t say the s-s-s word.
Well Bob, stick with what you can understand, and look at his comments directed at the citizens of Scotland(and those who support them in principle)who want their independence by democratic means.
They, by his words, are no friends of the concepts of freedom and justice.
If you do not comprehend how this offends, then you really do have a cognitive problem.
Stephen,
High horse, much? I’m in no way inhibiting anyone’s ability to express their opinion. Nor am I being in any way “dogmatic” That assertion is quite mad. I’m expressing my ignorance as to what Abbott actually meant. So far, no-one has been able to fill that gap and yet everyone’s up in arms about it and asserting Abbott insulted Scots. How?
What did Abbott mean? Give me your version.
Ok, Bob Fanside, I am done with your repetitive blindness.
Beyond pedantic sophistry and into the realm of the willfully incomprehensive.
Bob I can sort of see where your coming from however I know exactly where Abbott is coming from. No deep interpretation required for an idiot that thinks he is God’s gift to humanity. London is one of the axes of corruption underscored by endless deregulation, hypothication, financial malfeasance and gross inequality. Where have all the North Sea oil profits gone? Certainly not to Scotland.
Abbott is a conceited royalist, bully, troglodyte and oligarch. Ergo there is only one interpretation possible for his demeaning and divisive interference in Scottish politics. God save the Queen but who the hell is going to save us from this rabid ignoramus.
Stephentardrew, You are making the rash assumption that intent of behaviors can be inferred through a consistent pattern of past behaviors, and juxtaposed with clear and extreme statements of viewpoint.
You should be a goldfish, permanently surprised by predictable patterns.
“I think that the people who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom are not the friends of justice, the friends of freedom, and the countries that would cheer at the prospect… are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.
Um, Mr Bob, you are not the friend of justice or the friend of freedom and your friends are scum, you just don’t size up to fit my twisted ideological view and Abbott coulda added arsehole, insulted enough?
Corvus I defer to your unending wisdom.
Dear Peta,
(https://theaimn.com/dear-peta/)
My suggested strategy worked brilliantly! Why did you let Tony open his mouth?
When Brooksie gets down there we’ll replace him with Malcolm within the month!
Yours
Rupert.
I wonder how much the North Sea oil has to do with this. There are also issues about currency and membership of the EU. Concentrating on why Abbott says what he does and what he actually means is enough to drive anyone crazy but the insult is unambiguous. Abbott says what he thinks the puppet masters want him to say…but, as he has made us aware, in the heat of debate sometimes one goes too far – unless he is working from a script he should not be let off the leash. It is humiliating to have Credlin sitting at the table of every security briefing and trade negotiation and talks with foreign leaders – who the hell does she think she is. Sit in the back row with a pad if you must but piss the hell off and let the experts sit at the table to listen, answer and advise.
@Kaye Lee
I suspect North Sea oil has a lot to do with it. As well as the nuclear bomb-thingies needing a home. (It’s worth noting that the pursuit of Neoliberalism resulted in a squandering in the riches provided by North Sea oil in recent years http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/04/thatcher-and-north-sea-oil-%E2%80%93-failure-invest-britain%E2%80%99s-future)
@Bob Fanside made some good points. I note he shares Dan Rowden’s fetish regarding the use of imply / infer. It’s a pity people didn’t actually read what Bob wrote more carefully. Abbott’s comments were truly bizarre.
<
Dear Rupert,
My humblest apologies, you know how the moron gets when he visits the "old country".
I currently have him grovelling on behalf of that Palestinian traitor Hockey, and he doesn't like it, I told him to suck it up and keep his mouth shut about everything else.
newman's following that order as well and I've got to say he may well be the biggest simpleton you have ever put in government but he knows which side his bread is buttered.
Might have to remind Tony that he is only here for a short while and his mortgage is big …. I will also add that Slippers lawyers are expensive, that is certain to get him shitting bricks.
Got Hockey on ice can't afford any more from him …. on the bright side I can now start putting pressure on him to piss off ….. might offer him a Trade position in Gaza.
Dear Rupert could I just say that your man in "The Australia" is doing a brilliant job of ripping into the Press Council.
Wish you were here
From the Office of the Prime Minister
Peta Credlin
I agree with this guy:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-18/wellings-scotland/5678090
@ Stephen your comment ( 18th August 6.35 pm ) …. Well said …. Well, well said !
@ Corvus …. I think we ( even tho we are not goldfish ) ARE indeed, continually surprised by predictable patterns.
But – we shouldn’t be.
The world, homo sapiens, and all living creatures, of all genres, are in a continuous state of flux …. and nothing whatsoever should ever be surprising – to any of us thinking human beings.
@ Bob Fanside …
You sure have had your 15 minutes of fame here – haven’t you ?
Playing both sides against the middle ?? That’s the way of a good troll.
None-the-less …..I will …………BITE ….
And below here Bob, is your explanation ( as though you bloody needed one !! ). But first, to make sure you understand :
A) I am protective of my rights, and the rights of others to speak – which naturally, includes you.
B) Below here is a reply to your lame complaints that you ( seriously ?? ) do not understand the implications of Abbott’s gaffe ( oops sorry – … mistake ? ) of offending many people of proud Scottish heritage, desire and inclination.
First … in the interests of decency, your first sentence has been deleted on the comments published. It was a rather nasty oath ( which you well know about ) … saying ” ***k you and the horse you rode in on “ … most who receive updates would have seen that. But what does a bit of bad language matter … in this day and age, possibly nothing ? ( all due respect to the editor / moderator I might add, he has a proper and decent job to do – and does it very very well ).
And then – you keep drawing blanks ??? Like HELL you do. !! And you ARE being dogmatic … quite deliberately. Doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out ! But I am glad to see you say “ what a manipulative, exploitative and opportunistic trollop Abbott is. “ ( your words ) That says a great deal !
Ok – here ya go … and let this be an end to it …. For gosh sakes !! I will add comments throughout …………….
“I think that the people “ ( that covers a lot of ground and can mean anyone involved – or not involved – ye Gods !! )
“ who would like to see the break-up of the United Kingdom “ ( the status quo of Great Britain changed … forever )
“ are not the friends of justice “, ( they – these people no matter who they are or what they perceive as desirable ) – are not amenable to staying with the justice system enjoyed – to whatever degree – that abides in Great Britain / the United Kingdom, today. The United Kingdom’s justice system is as fair as any other on this earth – and indeed is probably much fairer by contrast to many other countries / states / and systems.
“ the friends of freedom “ …. ( to date the United Kingdom is still a free country. …. Some say not so, because of the influx of immigration to that land – all over, but that’s another matter.) The meaning of the word ‘freedom’ is “ the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants. “ Last time I looked, that was still the cornerstone of the United Kingdom’s democracy “
“ and the countries that would cheer at the prospect “ ( cannot comment too much, considering Abbott’s penchant for waffling and adding on … BUT can only think he is pushing his own ideas and ideals on those who might listen …..about OTHER political leaders of countries, who have considered Scottish independence a no-no …. ) I do not have a list of those countries to hand. !! He is ( I believe ) having yet another go at world opinion. He seems to think it is his right – as an almighty king-dick leader of the modern world ?????
… are not the countries whose company one would like to keep.” ( in other words – Abbott does not want to have anything whatsoever to do with anybody / any country / any people’s who would want to STOP Scotland from seeking independance, from Sovereignty – in and of the United Kingdom. ) NICE !!
It is Scotland’s RIGHT to seek whatever they want for the perceived good of their beautiful land – and its not anyone else’s business to try and put the kibosh on that. ( including the Pope – – – – and the Abbott !! ) ….
Whichever way you cut it …. Abbott was insulting the integrity and the rights of the Scottish people to decide FOR THEMSELVES, what they want to do in the future. Simple as that.
September will show whether they want their independance or not.
This all was simply Abbott’s heinous dictatorial attitude coming to the fore …. yet again. !! The big fizz shouting to all who won’t listen. hmmm.
I think at this point in time, you should remember that Scotland was originally a country in it’s own right. Many many ages ago. That is a big part of Scotlands’ history. Look it up.
I personally have no preference as to what they do – stay or go. Good luck to them, whichever way the pie cuts.
Can this now be an END to this ruddy ‘debate’ ? Puleeze. !!!! I sure as hell hope this answers your ‘queries’ !!!!!!!
An article on Abbott and Co.’s reckless reactionary comments has been turned mostly into a useless stream of zero benefit to any development of means to combat this Government and get it out of power.
Again, the word ‘troll’ appears, almost inevitably, as if right for anyone who offers a different opinion, even on the most trivial of points. And it is a very trivial point here.
Any indiscriminate use of this term spells aggressive insularity..Nothing more, nothing less.
I assume people with differing opinions are still allowed to post here? If not, then this site will learn nothing – because now and then people with other opinions actually have facts and background lacking among majority opinion.
This means there must be some tolerance of people who may have a differing approach that is insubstantial and even pretty useless. It does not need a whole gang to gather around to throw rocks. You can ignore the insistent opinion that has no substance. The person targeted here has been attacked quite uselessly.
Any independent site is as good as its comments. So many here are just wasting their time, for the sake of some petty fight.
For there to be such susceptibilities to ‘trolls’ there has to be not just alleged ‘trollers’ but a bunch of ‘trollees’ ready for a fight.
If you want an example of what can happen to a site that tolerates no actual substantial debate because it tolerates no principles of open discussion, go to the archives of IA, on the day Craig Thomson was convicted of misuse of Union funds. Look for a poster called Sue who dared to question the Party line played out there, of Craig as Working Class Hero. Dueling banjos should be the soundtrack.
@ randalstella …. You assume correctly …. people with differing opinions are still ‘allowed’ … and they DO post here.
And I definitely take your point.
However, a person who consistently pleads complete confusion on a subject, and keeps badgering away at it, ad infinitum – as a plea of ignorance and non-understanding – is usually doing so for one of two reasons :
To elicit sympathy for his / her plight, or is deliberately badgering to get a reaction. BUT he / she has every right to express himself / herself in any way they wish. No-one here would dispute that ( I believe ).
You object to the use of the word ” Troll ” … I can understand that. Have seen enough of other posts on other forums or allowable comments to know what is, and what is not a ‘troll’. ( A nasty word in many ways – a word made up to suit the Internet and it’s millions of users of clicks, and posts ). It is indeed an aggressive term , so ….. Let’s call these people ‘agitators’ or ‘agent provocateurs … if you like.
So very often the comments of a person who posts specific and continuous negative reaction are infuriating – as the comments are designed to be. Fact of Internet life.
I could be accused of being one myself – and so could you. All depends on how a reader, reads a subject / comment or anything else posted. Some posts are outrageous and extremely insulting. Most though are enlightening, and give good ‘ food for thought ‘. That’s how I mostly see it. Being human, however, I ( along with others ) have my limits – and occasionally they are reached and overtaken. That’s when I react, often emotionally and / or adversely. Others do too. Some don’t – they just [ wisely ] flick the agitator off … pffft.
We have a CHOICE … to either engage in debate with everyone – or to leave it all the hell alone.
Take the good with the bad, because that’s what one gets on any site that allows comments.
Trust you understand the reason for my reply …..
Anne and Randalstella:
Agree with both of you and that is what intelligent debate is about. However there seems to be some deference for nonsense when that nonsense deflects from the very serious undermining of moral and philosophical standards based upon right and goodness – right and goodness founded upon the causal contributors to many peoples lives over which they have no control. A pointed attack is not a denigration of another person it is an attempt too set things in perspective in a time of urgent need for logic and rationality. However logic and rationality demand both an empirical foundation for knowledge and an emotion and ethical component. Natural selection and the fundamental laws that underpin the universe are much more forgiving and tolerant than any set of dogmatic ideological prescriptions however one must willingly apply oneself to understanding them. Love and compassion for our fellow beings can rise naturally and effectively form both the foundations of science and rationality and a comprehension of the metaphysical implications of the apparent dynamic pull between a causally consistent determinate universe, paradox, counterintuitives, uncertainty, incompleteness as well as conceptual and mathematical infinity. This is not the metaphysics of religion but of recognition of the limitations of a finite mind imprinted in an apparently web of infinite universe. The fact that block time is a natural consequence of relativity and Minkowski space and that our universe does not conform to the finite closure of De-sitter space, but is rather open and accelerating, points to a deep foundation of truth that is, at the moment, far beyond our understanding.
So we must be critical of claims to free will and free speech when so much is imposed upon us by a causally consistent universe constrained by fundamental laws and constants. We do not choose our place of birth, hereditary propensities, familial circumstances, geographic location, political conditioning, ideological indoctrination and so on. Rather we have nominal choice based upon unit volume complexity and it is how we utilize this limited choice that can reshape how we think and act. As an upshot if we accept our limitations yet recognize that many peoples lives are conditioned by factors beyond their control we can have both sensible appeals to empirical facts and acceptance of the choice to freedom from inequality and suffering. In this respect religion and atheism foreclose upon some profound mysteries and unknowns we are not yet capable of resolving rationally.
So I agree with both of you yet I also choose a universe of love, compassion, justice and equity inevitably finding myself battling with the forces of greed and ignorance. In evolutionary terms we only have a limited time to set things right or we will propel the vast majority of people on this planet towards untold suffering and hardship as if that is not, to some degree, the case already. Polemics are of little use while Rome burns.
For me this site is a breath of fresh air however the need to get to the point is urgent. Though, due to time constraints, I cannot blog regularly I keep an eye upon AIMN and am heartened by the level of debate and the quality of the presenters. Bit long but better infrequent raves rather than limited sound bites.
Love the way Kaye never takes any post for granted using her cutting reasoning to critically challenge the facts.
Thanks team and all bloggers for a great read.
Bob thanks for the link. I also agree.
Cheers randalstella (and all).
Much liquid time and effort, and a bit of bile to boot, can be wasted being poured through a colander.
Distracting and unproductive.
Sometimes cathartic, though.
The confirmation of a massive oil discovery in Scottish waters means the push to keep Scotland part of the UK will only continue.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9535-rumours-of-massive-oil-find-follow-camerons-secret-shetland-visit
The BBC bias in it’s reporting of the coming referendum is well documented. Abbott is merely adding to the British governments push for failure.
Stephen,
“Bob thanks for the link. I also agree.”
Thanks for the reading the Drum article. I feel completely vindicated by it. And apologies for suggesting carnal knowledge of yourself and your mode of transport. I get a little annoyed at being called a troll – for no reason – and being told to piss off, also, for no reason.
Och aye the yes.
A dram of 12 year old Shredded Sporran, the bonnie wee lassies, the skirl of the pipes.
Makes ye want to grab yon claymore and slay the filthy English.
@corvus boreus
“He is an unstable compound trying to manufacture a spark.”
Love it!! (Terrifyingly accurate)
May I use this?
Wonderful.
abbienoiraude,
Feel free to throw any verbal morsel I manufacture, or recycle, into the world(without acknowledgement) if it seems situationally appropriate(so long as it’s not one of my periodic outbreaks of jibberish).
Thanks for the compliment.