191 comments

1. John LordDecember 20, 2014 at 9:34 am

   Not sure that I enjoyed your piece John.

2. John KellyDecember 20, 2014 at 9:45 am

   Understandably, John.

3. Kevin V RussellDecember 20, 2014 at 9:48 am

   Credit card debt is NOT at record levels. Debt servicing levels in Australia are NOT at historic highs. If you are going to make a point, try to not lie when you do it.

4. GarthDecember 20, 2014 at 9:55 am

   John, if your prediction comes true on the LNP’s watch then we will indeed be well and truly stuffed. Their rigid neolib ideology just won’t allow them to see any options beyond austerity. Although, as has been pointed out, we have Joe urging us all to spend up big for Santa so they seem to understand the concept of stimulus for an economy, but they just can’t extend that to the government having a role when stimulus is needed.

5. john o'callaghanDecember 20, 2014 at 10:02 am

   Well thanks a lot John,here i am on a beautiful Saturday morning in Brisbane reading all my news on the net and waiting for the cricket to start,and then you throw all this doom and gloom at me which has left me a shell of my former self.
   There is one only one positive thing that might be in my favour before i start stocking up on canned food and bottled water and withdrawing all my money from the bank and completing my under ground bunker,and that is the knowledge that our Federal Govt is on hand to guide us all through these dark days with their vast knowledge and skill regarding social and finacial problems,with Tony Abbott and the gang on hand to guide us through these terrible times we dont have a thing to worry about. Oh and dont forget ASIO and the AFP will be working hand in hand with the Feds,so what could possibly go wrong? ”’ Well i have to go now and have my breakfast and get ready for an enjoyable day of cricket,and once again i can relax and bathe in the warm glow knowing my Government and their assorted agencies have my best interest at heart.””’
   Phew”” you had me worried there for a minute.

6. Matt JamesDecember 20, 2014 at 10:03 am

   Kevin V Russell, yes he’s just a bank basher isn’t he? Now Mr. Wingnut give us a link from Beat the Unions or whatever master economist neo think tank site while U do the usual zombie line which doesn’t mean anything. Yes we will know the culprit will be welfare but just do it as part of the act. BTW U R a natural for the rising star of Health Insurance, Bupa. Why don’t U give them a ring? Screwing innocent people will be like taking ice cream off a baby & they will love you.

7. John KellyDecember 20, 2014 at 10:08 am

   Kevin V Russell, I am not meaning to lie but amounts vary from site to site. My source is: http://www.finder.com.au/press-release-australias-credit-card-debt-set-to-tip-52-billion-by-end-of-2014
   There is also this one which is similar: http://australia.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/australia-credit-card-debit-card-statistics-international.php
   Either way, the ballooning credit card debt will be a telling factor for households should things go pear-shaped.

8. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 10:30 am

   Great article John it’s about time someone told it as it is. No conspiracy just facts.

   I am afraid to say it but all of the indicators point to just that scenario. By Obama keeping Summers, Geitner and Bernaki and shoring up the banks he undermined the natural attrition of the banks thus building this artificial ponzy scheme for the 1% too big to fail monster banks.

   Saudi Arabia as usual is playing the double edged sword flooding the markets with oil to undermine competition. They ignored OPEC recommendations and went their own way. How much they and the US are complicit is not known but it seems to reflect a direct financial attack upon Russia. It may well damage US fraking interests as well. The BRIC’s are setting up their own development bank with the goal to develop a currency competitor to the US dollar. The US does not want to lose the role of currency hegemony and will do anything to keep the US dollar as the only viable international currency. South America is also looking at decoupling from the US dollar however these are long term goals requiring substantial planning.

   CITI BANk Diamond and the lobbyists just took out Dod/Frank protections allowing financial sector to use depositors funds to bail them out. It stinks of preparation for the next collapse. Too big to fail will fail and the consequences will be devastating. Mick Hanaure predicted pitchforks if the 1% didn’t wake up. It appears we are on the cusp of disaster.

   The gross inequality and funneling of wealth to the 1% since the GFC has led to massive instability and as you point out artificial growth in markets while the job markets fail and part time low paid work becomes the norm.

   We seem to be forceful about the corruption of Abbott yet we ignore the huge distortion of world markets by the US as Obama turned out to be Wall Street’s lackey. Obama is the smiling assassin and we have given him much too much leeway while focusing upon Abbott.

   I am not anti US or anti Russian however I am anti-exploitation and manipulation of markets sending the marginalized and poor into abject poverty. US derivatives bought down the world markets while Austerity is imposed upon those who were used by the markets to peddle toxic assets.

   The media has failed us as Fox News propels the lying fabrications of the 1% across the world undermining rational discourse with lies, brutal vilification of opponents, and peddling fear of the wrong people – progressives.

   In the long run it may work itself out but sadly a lot of people will sufferer in the interim. Why should the Russian people suffer for what are ethnic rivalries in Ukraine. Oil and gas seem to be one of the prime motivators. Still no final coherent knockout report on MH17. MH17 is deflection form the main game of corporate take over of national governance which is exactly what Abbott wants.

   The Supreme Court in the US is corrupt as they give corporations the rights of individual people. We in this country are asleep. The need to get rid of Abbot is extremely urgent however the media won’t tie the pieces together because it will make their master look like the economic vandals they are.

   I don’t know the solution but more of the same is going to lead to disaster.

9. mikestasseDecember 20, 2014 at 10:36 am

   Good to see the AIMN catching up…….. read THIS piece….

   Paul Craig Roberts Stunning 2015 Predictions – At Any Time The West Can Collapse

10. mikestasseDecember 20, 2014 at 10:37 am

    History likes to repeat itself…
    http://thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com.au/2014/12/deja-vu-all-over-again.html

11. Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 10:48 am

    And Labor will be elected when it does go south as they always are. The Liberals are only put into power when things are on the improve or going well.

    For example the economy was improving and looking good when Howard took the reigns, something he acknowledged in his first budget speech.

    For example Peter Costello intimates the economy heading south and a looming financial crisis, then his government promptly gets kicked out.

    For example Labor as internationally acknowledged, successfully gets us the through the crisis Costello warned about and the economy is on the improve, the Liberals get elected on a campaign of gross lies and deceits.

12. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:18 am

    <

    @John Kelly

    I haven't been following the reasons for the slump in oil prices but what little I have gleaned has been that (1) there is currently an oil glut and (2) this is a pre-emptive strike by oil producers against LNG/CSG producers, who need high oil prices to be competitive.

    If (2) is correct it will have very serious repercussions here in Qld where the newman LNP gang are now pinning their hopes on LNG/CSG taking up the slack from their (Russian ?) coal nightmare.

    Look forward to all responses to this comment.

13. RoswellDecember 20, 2014 at 11:51 am

    A bit off topic, but I think we’re going to see a panic attack from Abbott. Just as Rudd appeared to panic when he made Garrett the fall guy over the negative publicity the HIP received, Abbott’s going to look for his own fall guys, thinking it’ll do the trick. There will be blood.

14. mark delmegeDecember 20, 2014 at 11:55 am

    US economic attacks (and isolation) on Russia will push Europe into recession or worse.

15. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:57 am

    <

    @Roswell

    The spin is already in :

16. mikestasseDecember 20, 2014 at 12:05 pm

    @John Fraser…….. there is NO glut of oil, only demand destruction from global economic malaise. In the US, the number of passenger miles driven is down to what was normal in 1995!! It may even be worse now, I haven’t seen more recent numbers for the past 12~18 months…

17. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 12:07 pm

    There is another GFC coming, not sure if oil prices will trigger it, wouldn’t be surprised if it did, but, remember, when it does come, the government’s can’t save us, they’re already broke… (Good work Mr Swan!)

    Mark, Europe is already in recession, it never really exited the last one.

    (I can’t believe I am saying this, but) John, you’re right on the money, there is a glut and the oil price reflects the Saudi dominated OPEC position of trying to bankrupt its competitors in Canada, US of A and Australia.

    Mobiius, poor Mobius… enough said.

18. Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 12:11 pm

    revolutionarycitizen, poor revolutionarycitzen, so wrong so often across the boards, enough said.

    See that’s a lame game, but one you play so often.

19. Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 12:12 pm

    Meanwhile…..

    China offered enhanced economic ties with Russia at a regional summit this week as its northern neighbor struggled to contain a currency crisis.

    Any rescue package for Russia would give China the opportunity of exercising the kind of great-power leadership the U.S. has demonstrated for a century — sustaining other economies with its superior financial resources. President Xi Jinping last month called for China to adopt “big-country diplomacy” as he laid out goals for elevating his nation’s status.

    One-time Cold War ally China already proved a help to its neighbor embroiled in tensions with the U.S. and European Union earlier this year, signing a three-decade, $400 billion deal to buy Russian gas.

    While emerging markets facing such situations typically can turn to the International Monetary Fund for help, Russia’s impasse with Group of Seven nations over the situation in Ukraine may make it difficult to find loan conditions agreeable to all member countries, given that the U.S. and European nations dominate the Washington-based lender.

    China has used $25 billion of its foreign-exchange reserves to support oil supply from a Sino-Russian pipeline, and another $67.3 billion to boost the supply of crude oil from Russia, according to a statement on the central Chinese government’s website posted this week.

    China’s reserves — the world’s largest — stood at $3.89 trillion at the end of September. Russia had $373.7 billion at the end of last month.

    Russia’s currency-swap deal with China is one potential avenue of help, said Arthur Kroeber, Beijing-based managing director of economic research firm Gavekal Dragonomics. The agreement on a three-year 150 billion yuan ($24 billion) local-currency swap was one of the accords reached between Putin and Xi in October.

    “China values Russia as a strategic counterweight to the U.S. and so has no interest in a Russia implosion,” Kroeber wrote in an e-mailed response to questions. Kroeber said that low risk of a Russia collapse means that “Chinese assistance other than maybe a bit of discreet buying of ruble assets” is “not that necessary.”

    China, the world’s largest oil importer, has emerged as one of the biggest winners from the slump in the fuel’s price that has hammered its northern neighbor. A 30 percent drop in the price of oil alone could add 0.3 to 0.5 percentage point to China’s growth, says Mizuho Bank Ltd.

20. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 12:23 pm

    Yes Mobius, when there is another recession the US Government and its European allies are going to be able to spend their way out of it like the last one… oh wait… scratch that, they’re already out of money, the Germans refuse to print money (echoes of the 30s) and the EU remains stagnant even after many trillions of debt funded spending. The US is reaching US$18 Trillion in debt and is losing appetite for borrowing more, seeing as its $400+ Billion annual interest bill is now becoming a serious crimp on its ability to borrow and spend.

    Maybe they all would have been better off not following the US Depression example, which was, borrow a huge amount of money, slide into a massive secondary recession, have your GDP return to its starting point almost a decade later thanks largely to a a global outbreak of hostilities…

21. John KellyDecember 20, 2014 at 12:51 pm

    @john Fraser, demand for oil has been tapering off resulting from a number of efficiency measures as well as a decline in gasoline sales in the US and Europe. Add to this the successful development of shale oil and extraction from oil sands in the US and Canada. The US alone has added 4 million barrels a day to a 75 million barrels per day demand from these sources. In the face of all this OPEC countries wanted to decrease production but Saudi Arabia decided to maintain current levels. The reasons are unclear. It may be a conspiracy with the US to hurt Russia but it will also impact negatively on their shale oil and oil sands production. This story is still playing out, but Mikestasse is right; there is no glut.

22. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 1:04 pm

    <

    @John Kelly

    Plenty out there saying "oil glut" as well as the misnomer "abundance".

    https://www.google.com.au/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHWA_enAU608AU608&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=is%20there%20an%20oil%20glut

    The shale oil and oil sands production is still expensive to produce and puts them in the same category as CSG/LNG.

23. mikestasseDecember 20, 2014 at 1:24 pm

    The Shale oil/gas bubble is about to burst…… they are unprofitable at less than $80/bbl. There is no oil glut, because production of real oil is today lower than it was in 2006, when Peak Oil occurred. The reason oil went up and up after that is because producing all that crap oil to compensate costs so much. As a result, when oil hit $147, GFC MkI arrived, causing massive demand destruction.

    Even though less oil is produced today, notwithstanding the fact the US now produce 4 extra million barrels a day, people speak of a glut, when the real issue is that economies everywhere are broke, and people just can’t afford to buy as much fuel as they used to. Even we buy less fuel than we used to…… just cannot afford to drive everywhere like in the good old days.

    There is one more thing you’ll never read about that is critical to all this…… SURPLUS ENERGY. Because the unconventional oil sources have a very poor Energy Return on Energy Invested (about 10% of what conventional oil gave us 80 years ago, often less…) much of the good oil is used in the production of the crap oil…. BUT, and this is critical, the production of both are added up, even though some of one is used to create the other…….. the result is that whilst there may be more barrels of oil floating around, there is in fact less energy available to ‘do stuff’ with. Of course, world economies are measured in DOLLARS, not MEGAJOULES….. so as long as what you are producing shows dollars for the effort, it still looks like growth, even if in real terms we’re all actully going backwards.

    Furthermore, as oil greases the wheels of growth, this crisis will stall growth substantially……. just watch how many people go to the wall.

24. Michael TaylorDecember 20, 2014 at 1:39 pm

    America’s interest bill will be approaching $1trillion annually by 2020. Dark clouds are on the horizon. And they’ll be in deeper poo if the Saudis decide – for whatever reason – that they want to be paid in Euros for their oil instead of US dollars. Well, that’s what I’ve hear – don’t ask me how it works.

25. DanDarkDecember 20, 2014 at 1:40 pm

    John K, has read the Runes and he is dead right, 2015 will be a year that the shit hits the fan, and I am ready have been since Tones won the election, everybody knows the Liberals cock everything up, because they play the politics and the man, they have tiny brains and no vision except when it comes to their rich mates and bankers..
    The new backwater of Asia is Australia…

26. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 1:58 pm

    MT, right on the money.

    Dan, did you blame Keating for the world recession in the 90s that saw Australia with the same unemployment rate we have in the late 1930s? Or because he was ALP he gets a free pass? Costello managed a single quarter retraction greater than Swan was faced with, and an off-shore recession that hammered global markets. He managed to retain the dryness in his trousers, which is more than can be said for Swan.

    Also Dan, since Berlin is closer to Beijing than Canberra is, will you be saying that Germany is the backwater of Asia when the EU implodes in spectacular fashion? Or is it just some self-loathing trip you’re on?

27. corvus boreusDecember 20, 2014 at 2:11 pm

    International marketeers seem to grumble more and more about being tied to the US dollar each time the Tea Party shuts down governance.
    I occasionally wonder about the continued unity of the states of (north)America.

28. apocalypsoDecember 20, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    I suspect the Saudi’s are lowering prices at the behest of the United States in order to protect the Petro Dollar.

    There are a few articles around which explain the dynamics of the political system and the following webpage offers quite a credible explanation to me at least:
    http://www.cpa.org.au/guardian/2014/1653/08-my-moneys-on-putin.html

29. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 3:02 pm

    For interest sake I suggest that people go to Google earth and look at the Crimea and Sevastopol. It is the only suitable deep port that provides access to the Mediterranean through Istanbul Turkey and Greece. The US wants to strangle Russia through blockading Sevastopol. Crimea is predominantly ethnically Russian and was gifted to Ukraine by the old USSR. Poor foresight on their part but that’s what happens.

    Strategically it would choke off the only major port available to Southern Russia so it was inevitable that Putin secure access to the Mediterranean. Regardless of the ethnic Ukrainian conflicts, and a totally dysfunctional governments whether EU centric or Russia centric, Russia could not afford to lose one of the most strategic pieces of real estate in their nation. The UN, US and EU could have agreed to a referendum in Crimea to solve the problem amicably however the chance to choke off Russia’s Mediterranean access was just too tempting.

    I am not wishing to take sides however it is important to note that the West has demonstrated a distinct aversion to diplomacy when dealing with Crimea. Russia is full of people who are going to suffer immeasurably because of sanctions brought on by hard headed chest beating by the US. Thus far Putin has remained fairly circumspect and has not threatened or abused the Western Alliance.

    All I want to do is demonstrate there are always two sides to a story. How is corruption in the Russia any less despicable than corruption in the US. The whole of Europe is still in a state of crises due to US banks while suffering the blows of austerity. We need to ask the right questions and come up with intelligent and informed solutions. Blindly following the US is not going to save us from the steamroller of too big to fail banks. We actually have our eyes on the wrong ball game.

    Putin came and behaved appropriately at the G20. He is not an evil demon nor is he a saint. Same can be said for US political power though sometimes I think it is a toss up trying to choose.

30. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 3:05 pm

    there is no glut.

    If there is no ‘glut’, defined in terms of supply being in excess of demand, then why is the price of oil falling?

    I should add that oil was less than $50 a barrel in 2009 and is now at $70. An increase of some 40%. In 2005 it was $40 a barrel.

    http://www.vox.com/2014/11/28/7302827/oil-prices-opec

    Methinks there’s a some Chicken Little in this piece.

31. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    This is straight out market manipulation. OPEC has controlled supply for years to reflect demand however oil reserves are inevitably being depleted. If we project out oil supplies into the future there never is a true glut. There is controlled local supply and demand never a real and enduring glut. The Saudis are playing a giant game of market manipulation for their own self interest. Watch them switch off the taps and increase the price when they feel like it.

32. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 3:28 pm

    John Kelly said:

    In the face of all this OPEC countries wanted to decrease production but Saudi Arabia decided to maintain current levels

    Not quite true. OPEC members in 4014 are Algeria, Angola, Ecuador, the Islamic Republic of Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Libya, Nigeria, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates and Venezuela. They, as a group, have decided not to cut production. Certainly Saudi Arabia led the charge but it was the OECD as a group which made the decision.

33. KeithDecember 20, 2014 at 3:30 pm

    With the billions of dollars in costs already created by climate change through drought, extreme downpours creating floods, wildfires, or excessive snow falls; much strain will be placed on economies should similar events happen in 2015 as happened this year.
    From a climate change point of view a world wide recession may be a positive in relation to reducing emissions; but, at a huge cost to humanity. A business as usual policy will see bigger costs accruing to humanity through lack of mitigation and adaptive processes and plans.

    Should we get to a sixth extinction through taking no action, it really doesn’t matter whether you’re a billionaire or a pauper; whether economies are in the black or in recession. So, we need to have solid plans created in Paris in 2015 in relation to climate change; otherwise climate tipping points can lead us to bad places.

    Clearly, we do not want to see either a recession or rampant climate change; the question is are multinational companies, world leaders, and people up to creating a safe environment.

34. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    stephentardrew

    there never is a true glut

    Yes, but we are talking about the current situation. There is a current ‘glut’, that’s why the price is falling. Or is there another explanation that escapes me.

    Re Saudi Arabia, I’ll cite the article above:

    For one, officials in Saudi Arabia remember what happened in the 1980s, when prices fell and the country tried to cut back on production to prop them up. The result was that prices kept declining anyway and Saudi Arabia simply lost market share. What’s more, the Saudis have signalled that they can live with lower prices around $80 per barrel in the short term

    .

    The world and how it operates is very complex, but history helps with some insights.

    Should be 2014 above.

35. corvus boreusDecember 20, 2014 at 3:41 pm

    Re the 3:28 post by Matters Not
    When you look at the line-up of OPEC nations, it suddenly strikes you just how politically and socially fup-duck most of the major oil extracting nations are.
    A bit of a roll-call of corrupt, militarized dystopias linked by a mutual reliance upon the destructive extraction of carcinogenic combustible matter.

36. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 3:43 pm

    Point taken Matters Not did not know that. Thanks.

    It is complex so how do you encompass all variables?

37. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 3:52 pm

    stephentardrew said:

    how do you encompass all variables?

    I don’t believe you can in any type of absolute, accurate manner. Far too many variables, conjectures and the like.

    But that shouldn’t be taken to mean we should all give up with our theorising, sit on a beach or sleep under a palm tree and forget about the world in which we live. LOL.

38. townsvilleblogDecember 20, 2014 at 3:55 pm

    Once again we have been lead by the ear by the yanks into expenditure we have not been able to afford i.e. $500 million per annum war, still no hint of taxing the rich or multinational companies so yes we are off to hell in a hand basket, it seems that tories never learn.

39. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 3:56 pm

    Now that sitting on the beach under a palm tree doesn’t sound too bad to me.

40. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 4:03 pm

    “still no hint of taxing the rich” except for the part where to top 15% pay the majority of taxes, right? That’s not taxing the rich…

    The problem is the other 85% and the majority of Australians who will go their whole lives without ever contributing a dollar more in taxes than the value of taxes spent on them…

    Tax the rich, change the record!

41. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 4:11 pm

    corvus boreus:

    A bit of a roll-call of corrupt, militarized dystopias linked by a mutual reliance

    Can only agree. You of course will note that Australia has sent ‘forces’ to protect some of these States from the threat of ISIL. ISIL executes by ‘beheading’ as does Saudi Arabia which in many ways was so important to the rise of ISIL.

    The irony of it all.

42. MaureenDecember 20, 2014 at 4:20 pm

    Thanks for your article John. It is depressing reading though. There is a lot of discussion online about what is really going on in the world and the shadow world government that is pulling the strings. The global elite has a neo feudal corporate agenda to increase their wealth and power by creating a worldwide recession and turning everyone, who is not one of them, into the new serfdom. They expect the global population to continue to sleep walk through life so they can introduce their new world order without opposition. However there is evidence that grass roots global resistance is increasing so I try to remain hopeful. The worst thing we can do is vote for corporate Liberal governments, who we’ve seen clearly with the Abbott government, put corporate interests first and put people last.

    This is how they do it – “In the Rockefeller File, Gary Allen wrote:

    “By the late nineteenth century, the inner sanctums of Wall Street understood that the most efficient way to gain a monopoly was to say it was for the ‘public good’ and ‘public interest.’ “

    “The True Story of the Bilderberg Group” and What They May Be Planning Now

    http://www.greedylyingbastards.com/

43. corvus boreusDecember 20, 2014 at 4:43 pm

    Matters Not,
    Our sweet friends in Saudi Arabia.
    A nation under opaque, autocratic rule supported by a corrupt, misogynistic and nepotistic legislative body.
    A theocratic, brutal and intrusive police force and ‘judicial’ court system, featuring state sanctioned floggings, amputations, stonings, firing squads, beheadings and crucifixions.
    Also the majority national source of the folk and funds for the murderous terrorist atrocities that occurred in New York City on 11/9/2001.
    Ain’t geopolitical pragmatics grand?

44. John KellyDecember 20, 2014 at 4:50 pm

    @revolutionarycitizen, yes, the top 15% pay the most tax because they earn the most. If you have 10 people paying tax and nine earn $20,000, they pay $341.81 tax. The remaining one earns $200,000 and pays $63,547. That leaves those on $20,000 just $19658.19 disposable income per annum. The one on $200,000 has $136,453 in disposable income. Are you saying we should feel sorry for the one on $200,000?

45. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 5:00 pm

    John Kelly you are being too kind. As you would be aware, the figures which you cite refer only to tax paid on income. If you add the GST, the ‘inequality’ becomes much more stark.

    One might also consider how the ‘rich’ are more likely to benefit from negative gearing and superannuation, to name but two others.

46. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 5:21 pm

    <

    Its looking like some consensus on "oil glut".

    But does … "(2) this is a pre-emptive strike by oil producers against LNG/CSG producers, who need high oil prices to be competitive."

    Stand up to scrutiny ?

    And if oil prices stay low will it affect Queensland and the newman LNP gangs LNG/CSG dream ?

    Low coal prices have gone from being "good for humanity" to the LNPs worst nightmare.

47. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 5:50 pm

    And if oil prices stay low will it affect Queensland and the newman LNP gangs LNG/CSG dream

    It would seem so. Royalty in Queensland is at 10% of the price at the ‘well head’.

    It’s having an increasing impact already in the US.

    LNG prices tend to drop if oil prices drop. (Some LNG prices are linked to oil prices, but even those that are not directly linked are likely to be affected by the lower demand for energy products.) At these lower prices, the financial incentive to export LNG becomes much less. Even fluctuating LNG prices become a problem for those considering investment in infrastructure such as ships to transport LNG.

    More here. http://ourfiniteworld.com/2014/12/07/ten-reasons-why-a-severe-drop-in-oil-prices-is-a-problem/

48. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 6:34 pm

    JK, the point I made was having the more than half your working population effectively paying not tax throughout their entire lifetime whilst demanding that a small group of people pay an ever increasing share of the burden is entirely unsustainable.

    The “tax the rich” mantra is chanted loudest by the intellectually lazy, the greedy or a coalition of the two.

    As I have pointed out previously here (and elsewhere) tax isn’t the problem in this instance, it’s spending. Government increased spending by 50% whilst revenues grew at 20%, even the current lot are still growing spending faster than revenues. And revenues have been growing much faster than GDP, meaning, revenue isn’t the problem here.

    Paying some form of welfare to 85% or more of the population isn’t sustainable, period and it needs to stop.

    I wholeheartedly support a reconfiguration of the taxation system, and constitutional mandates on taxation and spending. What I don’t support is the socialist mantra of wealth redistribution because all it has ever achieved is make everyone equally poor.

    Matters, if you ever get a GST bill for a Bentley you’ll understand why it was introduced. It is a wealth tax made palatable because it was introduced by the Liberal Party.

49. DanDarkDecember 20, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    Rectal Citizen, hows go get effed sound, what a moron you are, really if you had a brain it would be lonely
    and when you go down, cos you will don’t whinge about it now will you,
    what a useless Liarbil troll you are, go back to the cave where you crawled from
    and spruik your doctrine of death somewhere else, I am so over you trolls, you are subhuman imbeciles
    Shut the door on your way out …..thanks 🙂

50. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 7:00 pm

    if you ever get a GST bill for a Bentley you’ll understand why it was introduced

    Not likely. But I do get a GST ‘bill’ on the ‘bread and butter’ things (otherwise known as the necessities of life) which might be of some significance to me but of little or no consequence to the Bentley buyer, given it could be a tax deduction as a business expense or might be actually owned by the ‘company’ who give it to the ‘driver’ for an unlimited time, ‘fully maintained’. (Just ask Clive about that).

    An option that is not available to me.

    GST is a wealth tax? Please. Grow up.

    BTW, with choosing the Bentley example, you reveal much about your thinking. And where you’re coming from.

    Keep contributing!

51. John KellyDecember 20, 2014 at 7:07 pm

    @RC, No, spending is NOT the problem. Revenues, or lack of them, are the problem. So are subsidies, particularly in the mining and superannuation areas, which if discontinued, would deliver a balanced or surplus budget, this year. Not that I advocate a balanced budget, I don’t. They do nothing for growth.

52. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 7:11 pm

    Dan, nice to see your mastery of economics is in-line with your mastery of Her Majesty’s English, somewhere between toddler and garden gnome. Perhaps you should take your own advice, the adults are talking.

    Matters, I think you forget that the rich also pay the GST on their bread and butter also. Yes, there are ways of off-setting GST outlays open to those that know how to exploit them. However, handing over $75,000 in GST when buying a car makes handing over the $0.30c for your bread appear rather silly.

    And that is why the GST was conceived and introduced, the revenue comes from the higher end of town, not from the struggling masses. The GST hits those that consume the most of the highest value the most. Clive Palmer has probably paid more in GST than you or I could ever conceive of.

53. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 7:19 pm

    “@RC, No, spending is NOT the problem. Revenues, or lack of them, are the problem. So are subsidies, particularly in the mining and superannuation areas, which if discontinued, would deliver a balanced or surplus budget, this year. Not that I advocate a balanced budget, I don’t. They do nothing for growth.”

    Nonsense, complete nonsense, revenues grew at twice the rate of GDP under Swan, the greatest revenue up-surge in Australian history, and it still wasn’t enough. Of-course, for the left it is never enough, it isn’t enough until the wealth confiscation and asset seizure starts.

    Secondly, even Treasury admits closing the supposed superannuation concessions will have no effect on the budget, simply, those that can will move that money to negatively geared or return deferred assets, which could actually cost the budget even more money.

    Thirdly, DFR is not a subsidy, it is the correct application of the tax as it was initially designed. Adding to that, business taxes are profit based, not income, meaning even without the DFR the government won’t benefit from its removal as the cost outlay to the business can be recouped later anyway. This has been explained more than once.

    Deficits also do nothing for growth, if that were true Swan would have had the best GDP figures in the world, he didn’t, the US of A would have GDP growth in the double digits, it doesn’t and the EU wouldn’t be in recession, which it is.

    The government has a spending problem. It legislated a whole lot of expensive spending whilst it was in deficit hoping the never never would some day pay for it, which it won’t.

54. Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 7:31 pm

    nice try rc,

    I can guarantee that wealthy people will not pay the GST on their Bentley because it will be bought through their business and so they can claim the GST back.

    And then, if their domestic business looks like making a profit, get their international business to issue them a loan at exorbitant rates – that’s quite a money spinner…just ask Rupert.

    Rich people do not drive markets (unless you are selling luxury cars, yachts, and planes)…there aren’t enough of them. If you ACTUALLY want the economy to grow then you increase the disposable income of those who will spend every cent of it. One million people spending $1 on GST makes the government a pot load more than the 1%ers who have accountants ensure they never pay tax. Everything is a deduction when you are rich.

55. Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 7:33 pm

    BTW rc, bread does not attract GST currently, not that you would know. Another interesting example…condoms are GST free, tampons are not. That’s the Howard government thinking for you.

56. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 7:42 pm

    Kaye, I did point out that there are ways around it, though, I know plenty prestige cares are purchased privately, and prestige vehicles are quite a lucrative market. The only reason GST type taxes exist is to tax consumption, the rich consume more in total value, there-fore they pay more. I am well aware of what is and isn’t in the GST bracket, I used someone else’s analogy.

    I would certainly be in favour of limiting the base of the GST, by applying it to everything but above a certain monetary value, which would ensure it applied in keeping with the notions of being a consumption tax.

57. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    <

    Gee whiz 'rc" …. you've really put your foot in it.

    If you know nothing about GST don't worry …. it is in keeping with the rest of your knowledge of economics.

58. Kaye LeeDecember 20, 2014 at 7:48 pm

    Income inequity (read excessive wealth) is a drain on economic growth. It takes money out of circulation. Poor people circulate every cent they get. Let’s increase Newstart by $50 a week and see who is right.

59. cuppaDecember 20, 2014 at 7:54 pm

    Beautiful writing, John Kelly. Awesome, actually.

60. donwrefordDecember 20, 2014 at 7:56 pm

    I mentioned to my energy supplier when I paid my account over the phone, and said that I am paying a hike in energy costs as a result of export energy cost being competitive to domestic supplies, the energy suppliers of oil, gas, have never been so inexpensive for years, this has no effect on my increased energy costs, why?

61. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 7:59 pm

    “Income inequity (read excessive wealth) is a drain on economic growth. It takes money out of circulation. Poor people circulate every cent they get. Let’s increase Newstart by $50 a week and see who is right.”

    On the first point you are right, more right in the American example than you are right in the Australian one. Stagnation of capital flows causes recessions. However, that can apply to the lower end of the spectrum too, too much money circulating in a large sub-population of poor will cause recessions also, again, very true in the American experience of late.

    On the second point you’re wrong, even though I support it, what Australia is suffering from is debt paralysis, that being so much capital is now only unproductive throughput largely in the finance sector in the form of debts and interest that it has acted as a means to remove far too much money from the market, in a similar way that the rich are holding too much capital in the US of A. The poor more often than not pay much of their income in housing, or in another way, they pay most of their income to a bank, money that is never recirculated in the production base or consumer economies. Simply giving them more money isn’t going to solve the economic situation we’re all now in, but it will help them fend of starvation.

    The above is made worse when you consider just how much the average poorer household is handing over in three separate layers of direct and indirect taxation to government.

    There are days I wonder why there aren’t poor people lined up to torch government buildings, I really do.

62. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 8:22 pm

    RC said:

    revenues grew at twice the rate of GDP under Swan, the greatest revenue up-surge in Australian history, and it still wasn’t enough

    Really. The wonders of economic ‘growth’ Here’s a clue RC, when the economy expands, one can expect that revenue will increase and expenditure will increase as well. Very, very basic.

    Now for a more sophisticated measure. Try government expenditure as a percentage of GDP. What do we find. (What follows is but a summary, you can find the detail here.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-12-16/koukoulas-myefo-warning-fails-to-curb-spending-spree/5969364

    The claims that the Coalition frames economic policy around a low government spending, low tax model are wrong.

    Having been in control of the budget for 15 months, the MYEFO reveals that the Abbott Government has boosted government spending to stunningly high 25.9 per cent of GDP in 2014-15.

    Quite extraordinarily, this is just 0.1 per cent of GDP below the 2009-10 level of government spending that incorporated the massive fiscal stimulus measures from the Rudd government, which were implemented to counter the global financial crisis.

    What is also extraordinary is that the forward estimates for the budget out to 2017-18 confirm government spending remaining above 25 per cent of GDP in each and every year. To put this spending spree in context, in Labor’s last three full budgets, government spending was under 25 per cent of GDP in each year.

    Mr Hockey’s MYEFO is projecting a surge of money into the Treasury coffers. From a recent low of 19.9 per cent of GDP in 2010-11, the level of tax will have risen to 22.0 per cent in 2014-15 and is forecast to rise to 23.1 per cent in 2017-18. This is back to the long-run historical average and suggests that the failure to move the budget back to surplus is a spending issue, not so much of a revenue shortage..

    To be sure, the Abbott Government has imposed a range of spending cuts, especially in pensions, education and health over the forward estimates. But rather than using the savings to feed into the bottom line of the budget, the money has been “recycled” into other areas of spending.

    With budget deficits set to remain for the next five years, the level of net government debt is forecast to rise to 17.2 per cent of GDP, just below the post-war peak of 18.1 per cent of GDP in the aftermath of the early 1990s recession.

    The good news is that this remains low on any historical comparison and is a level that confirms Australia’s still fundamentally excellent fiscal position. That said, the MYEFO is highlighting that there does in fact need to be some remedial fiscal policy changes and not what the Abbott Government has so far delivered, which is spending cuts in one corner of the economy and ramped up spending in the other corner.

    While tax to GDP levels will be approaching all time highs under the current policy mix of the Abbott Government, there remains an urgent need for changes to tax policy, including tax expenditures for superannuants and the business sector.

    With policies that slowly but steadily pare back spending to the levels seen in the last three budgets from former treasurer Wayne Swan and that hold revenue at levels more or less expected in MYEFO, the budget will be on a glide path to surplus.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with big government, but if it comes at the expense of persistent budget deficits and reckless, largely unproductive spending, there are structural problems in government finances.

    The fiscal decisions taken by the Abbott Government have exacerbated these structural problems, not fixed them as they promised to do.

    Get that: This is back to the long-run historical average and suggests that the failure to move the budget back to surplus is a spending issue, not so much of a revenue shortage.

    And, guess what he actually provides the maths to back up same.

63. DanDarkDecember 20, 2014 at 8:37 pm

    Rear vision Citizen, if I wanted to be talked to like I am an idiot I would be on msn, but I come on AIMN because there are no right wing extremist who want push your Hockonomics onto the masses, and believe your shit as the Gospel and the only way, you are a paid troll by the lying LNPs to deflect from the issues now and how Phony Tony is a disaster for this country and its people, not to mention the planet we inhabit, yes watch Mother Nature turn, it’s starting already
    we were once such a proud country, but now we are condemned by the world and are looking like we live in the dark ages, soooooo I won’t be subject to your shit, have the floor it’s all yours, break a leg 🙂
    I avoid right wing neoliberals like you, you are a knuckle dragging Neanderthal, so go for it, knock yourself out trying to convince folk on here, but I will go where the trolls aren’t, because you are a drain and a fool to boot…..

64. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 8:58 pm

    “Really. The wonders of economic ‘growth’ Here’s a clue RC, when the economy expands, one can expect that revenue will increase and expenditure will increase as well. Very, very basic.”

    I pointed out the metric previous, that being, revenue grew by 20% under Swan (the best revenue growth figures ever, at TWICE the rate of GDP growth) and government spending grew by 50% in the same period. So, yes, it was, is, and is always going to be a spending problem. (which the article goes on to agree with anyway)

    More mangled Queen’s Own English from Dan, when you buy a dictionary Dan I’ll bother to read your tripe, but not before hand.

65. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 9:02 pm

    RC: It is not your job to be the literacy police. Each to his own. As for the rest of your immoral rubbish I don’t want to hear it.

66. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 9:14 pm

    <

    @RC

    When you move on from Economics 101 then perhaps more people will bother reading your tripe.

67. Möbius EckoDecember 20, 2014 at 9:15 pm

    Poor revolutionarycitizen, proven so wrong, shot down, enough said.

68. Annie BDecember 20, 2014 at 9:49 pm

    Well … um … thank you John Kelly … I think !!! ……… however, I have to ( disagreeably ) agree with most of what you have written. Good article, bad news.

    ………..

    @stephentardrew ….. ( comment – December 20, 2014 at 3:28 pm )

    I agree with you. I only understand a little of this situation, but it doesn’t take Einstein to realise the Saudi’s are up to something – for their own benefits.

    This might be interesting ( or not ) ……. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-19/oil-rebounds-from-5-year-low-as-market-most-volatile-since-2011.html

    I kind of think ( only kind of !!) that the Saudi’s have circumvented the OPEC rules and regs. — somehow — – and by inference alone, has driven oil prices down – because they know panic merchants will believe them, ( and believe a lot of other hoo-hah – bandied about by Governments ).

    There’s something very odd going on ……

    And GOD FORBID – the Abbott Government dare take one syllable of self-back-slapping — because of it. It is only my instinct that says that ….. mainly because this Federal mess of a Government, makes every post a winner – by fair means or foul………even on the international stage.

    ………….

    Please – someone – correct me if I am wrong.

69. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 9:57 pm

    Steph, why on Earth would I want to read or even take advice from someone who writes worse than a 4th grader? I am sure Dan in his own way adds some value to society, but not here with his incoherent rantings about this or that.

    John, what I said was fact, demonstrably so, but we all know why you’re here, so continue on.

    I see Poor Mobius is still poor. Again, prove me wrong, or as they say in more educated company than here, piss or get off the pot.

70. LOVODecember 20, 2014 at 10:01 pm

    Come the revolution….lets eat the trolls….. better start running RC 😛

71. Wun FarlungDecember 20, 2014 at 10:06 pm

    When I attended school the kind Sisters of The Good Samaritan Order gave me many memorable gems of wisdom most memorably “if you are not Catholic you will suffer in hell “- “get up of that cold concrete it will give you piles”- “get that pencil out of your mouth an aboriginal may have touched it” and applicable to revolutionarycitizen “be kind and tolerant to the mentally infirmed”

72. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 10:10 pm

    Bring it on LOVO…

    Just remember Wun, the only people who don’t know they’re retarded are the retarded… so, are you retarded?

73. Wun FarlungDecember 20, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    Hang on mate I’m flogging myself with the Rosary beads

74. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 10:27 pm

    I suspect that RC hasn’t acquainted himself (and I use the male pronoun advisedly) with the Dunning–Kruger effect.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

    When it comes to ‘evidence’ as opposed to ‘assertion’, RC is in a league of his own.

    He’s hilarious.

75. Wun FarlungDecember 20, 2014 at 10:33 pm

    reolutionarycitizen
    Is that narni narni nar nar or sticks and stones ?
    I always strike trouble trying to understand political/economic pea brains.

76. BacchusDecember 20, 2014 at 10:37 pm

    Why does “lies, damned lies, and statistics” come to mind when I read the spin from rc?

    Perhaps he’d like to educate us lesser beings as to why comparing growth in GDP to revenue growth is a more valid statistic than revenue as a % of GDP over time.

    The drop in revenue is very obvious in “STATEMENT 10: HISTORICAL AUSTRALIAN GOVERNMENT DATA” of the budget papers.

    Please explain 🙄

77. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 10:39 pm

    <

    @rc

    "John, what I said was fact, demonstrably so, but we all know why you’re here, so continue on."

    Am I wrong in assuming that "John" is me ? ….. (gee I hope I don't get that hoary old "never assume …." predictability).

    If I am correct why don't you elucidate …. but please not in the same way that you explain your incomprehensible economic/fiscal theories.

    " if you ever get a GST bill for a Bentley you’ll understand why it was introduced" ….. "revolutionarycitizen" (1998 – )

    A classic.

78. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 10:42 pm

    <

    "Hang on mate I’m flogging myself with the Rosary beads" ….. Reply to "revolutionarycitizen"

    ROFLMAO

    Well done Wun Farlung

79. Wun FarlungDecember 20, 2014 at 10:43 pm

    You know how it goes Bacchus.
    It’s all Labor’s fault, aided and abetted by the lefty luvvies and the union thugs.

80. BacchusDecember 20, 2014 at 10:57 pm

    I reckon it’ s more a case of “baffle ’em with bullshit” Wun Farlung. 😆

81. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    Bacchus said:

    reckon it’ s more a case of “baffle ‘em with bullshit

    Wrong! It’s just an ‘attempt’ (unsuccessful) to do same.

    Just sayin …

82. revolutionarycitizenDecember 20, 2014 at 11:04 pm

    No Wun, such a taunt would still be above your level of education, obviously.

    John, you know I love you John, but you need new material, or a Rolls Royce like Clive’s, life is a lot better in a Rolls Royce.

    Matters, your projections in regard to your self-diagnosis, whilst comical and humerous add little, so if you’d kindly, piss or get off the pot.

    Bacchus, my dear boy, the answer is simple, the metric I used (as does everyone else who knows how to read a bank statement) more accurately depicts the trend in government finances as they apply in reality. That reality being the government has been increasing its spending at twice the rate of its ability to increase revenue, even when that revenue was growing at twice the rate the economy did. Which is illustrative of a spending problem, not a revenue problem.

    It also makes a mockery of the “Liberal Party Austerity Measures” meme the economically illiterate of the left cry when they dampen their trousers, because in the budget ol Smokin Joe increased government spending yet again, and again much faster than revenue growth. This is Greek economics at work right here in Australia, so I hope you guys are ready to torch some buses in the capitol when it all goes bad in a few years time.

    Also, the % of revenue to GDP is largely a moot point, given that GDP is continuing to grow. (Faster under Joe than Swan, but that was to be expected, Swan was too busy to clean up the puddle in his office to ever run an economy)

83. helvityniDecember 20, 2014 at 11:08 pm

    I have been very pleased to see that the bookshops in my little town have been doing a roaring business. They have been very busy, whilst dress shops, businesses trading electronic gadgets, shoe shops, kitchenware etc hardly have had a customer. So something positive in a sea of disappointments…

84. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 11:15 pm

    John these links are directly applicable to your article. These are not conspiracy theorist but legitimate commentators. Bit to read but well worthwhile.

    Russian Roulette: Taxpayers Could Be on the Hook for Trillions in Oil Derivatives by Ellen Brown

    Russian Roulette: Taxpayers Could Be on the Hook for Trillions in Oil Derivatives by Ellen Brown

    Paul Craig Roberts – Russia To Unleash Ultimate Black Swan Against The West

    Paul Craig Roberts – Russia To Unleash Ultimate Black Swan Against The West

    America’s Big Five Are Plunging the World Into Another Banking Crisis

    http://sputniknews.com/radio_burning_point/20141218/1016001652.html

    The War Against Putin

    The War Against Putin

85. Wun FarlungDecember 20, 2014 at 11:15 pm

    Education doesn’t reflect intelligence.
    Rhodes Scholar Tony Abbot proves that…continuously.

86. BacchusDecember 20, 2014 at 11:18 pm

    “Wrong! It’s just an ‘attempt’ (unsuccessful) to do same.”

    Yep MN, the next reply confirmes that. Bottom line – rc is FOS.

87. stephentardrewDecember 20, 2014 at 11:22 pm

    RC: Me thinks this is a self fulfilling prophesy.

    “Just remember RC, the only people who don’t know they’re retarded are the retarded… so, are you retarded?”

88. Annie BDecember 20, 2014 at 11:23 pm

    @ revolutionary-citizen ….

    You are being picky, puerile and pernickety. ?

    Why ?

89. John FraserDecember 20, 2014 at 11:24 pm

    <

    @rc

    You've got a bank statement ?

    Oh fair suck of the sauce bottle.

    ” if you ever get a GST bill for a Bentley you’ll understand why it was introduced” ….. “revolutionarycitizen” (1998 – )

    Classic.

90. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 11:29 pm

    so if you’d kindly, piss or get off the pot

    Cleary you’re feeling somewhat ‘wet’ RC and want relief from the downpour. The way I see it, you haven’t had a win all night. But I suspect that failure is an ongoing ‘reality’ for you.

    Rising damp seems to be just one of your ongoing problems. LOL.

91. Wun FarlungDecember 20, 2014 at 11:36 pm

    Any way back to the subject.
    One issue I am not finding much info on but mentioned in the links from stephetardrew
    What is stopping Russia from turning the taps off and starving Europe of gas?

92. Matters NotDecember 20, 2014 at 11:43 pm

    What is stopping Russia from turning the taps off and starving Europe of gas?

    Revenue. They need it. Desperately. Further, they are desperate to maintain ‘market share’

    There’s a link I provided at 3:05 pm which provides some insights..

93. Dipso FactoDecember 21, 2014 at 12:31 am

    The one thing which strikes me here is the complete economic illiteracy, or is it just deluded right wing revisionism, of revolutionary citizen. You can read an article nearly every day about the revenue problem, the ‘structural problem’ with the dreaded deficit. People are waking up. I suggest revcit and just about everybody on this thread go and buy a copy of the Saturday Paper and read the front page article about Howard’s booby trap for Abbott. Howard and Costello frittered away the long mining boom on tax cuts which favoured the rich. The last one was matched by Rudd after the 2010 election; a lure based on greed.There is no political will or way to reverse those cuts, and the cost is $30bn per year in lost revenue. Even Hewson calls the deficit ‘crisis’ a fake. It IS a revenue problem, NOT a spending problem. But fools like revcit will always think the taxes are wasted on the idlers who drag the chain, no matter what facts you put before them.

94. CommonADecember 21, 2014 at 1:15 am

    On the bright side, with the fall in oil prices it will cost less to run the gas-based turbines to balance out all the irregularities in the green energy sources… will that make the green energy cheaper?… Or we could run diesel generators to sell as “solar” power to the grid at night (it’s been done people)… lol

    As for all the; “tax the rich (more)”… why do you think people are paid more in the first place? I mean you know that the price of oil fell simply because supply outstripped demand… apply the same thing to labour. You want a certain person, you have to pay a certain price…. those people feel like they are “worth more” than someone else (or at least their time, expertise, advice is)… and whoever employs them seems to agree (not all wealthy people are self-employed running a company you know.. eg bank executives). The thing is, those people will measure their needs (worth) in after-tax dollars… so the more you tax them, the higher wages they must demand so that their take home pay matches their expectations of disposable income…. and where does that money come from? Cost of goods/services offered by the company, and some lowly paper shuffler who just got fired.

    Now I’m not saying that I understand what someone does or knows that means they get paid 1mil+… but that’s the point… I have no idea what they do… if I did, I might be able to command that sort of money too…. If you ask me… if you really want equality, simply tax everyone a flat 20% (for example), with perhaps a lower limit (don’t tax pocket money), with no refunds, or tax exemptions…. (the tax-return accountants might be out of a job)… Then perhaps you would have more companies taking the Harvey Norman approach and capping executive/management salaries…. if the tax rate were truly flattened then perhaps the pay rates would be too….

    Human greed, pride, and envy have a lot to do with economics (as in the suspect motives for driving down the price of oil)… it’s better to just not ask how much someone else makes, it opens up all sorts of comparisons, judgements, and strife. (and just stockpile oil while it’s “cheap”?)

    Now I know, that you on this site will howl me out (the first one to name call is the first to run out of ideas)… but seriously, what explanation do you give for the highly paid salaries vs the low ones? Do you really think you can change it by taxing them more?

95. Neil of SydneyDecember 21, 2014 at 5:18 am

    I see people are blaming Howard/Costello tax cuts for our problems. I wonder what people think of Swan tax cuts. This is a comment from Wayne Swans last budget (2013-14)

    http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

    “The Government has delivered $47 billion of tax cuts in our first four years since coming to office. In addition, we have provided further tax cuts as assistance for the cost of living impact of the carbon price from 2012‑13. Even after accounting for the small increase in the Medicare levy in 2014‑15 we will be delivering total tax cuts of around $20 billion a year over the next four years compared to the 2007‑08 tax scales.”

    The last column in the Table shows how much bigger are the Swan tax cuts compared to the Costello tax cuts.

96. Fred DerfDecember 21, 2014 at 7:32 am

    It seems the U.S. is determined to undermine Russia’s economy. Their end game is not clear although it’s clear they see Putin as a major threat.
    Check this out, it blew my mind-

    http://www.salon.com/2014/12/11/these_are_lies_the_new_york_times_wants_you_to_believe_about_russia/

    “My jaw hit the corner of my desk when I read last week that Ukraine’s new finance minister, one Natalie Jaresko, is 1) an American citizen, granted a Ukraine passport simultaneously with her cabinet appointment, 2) a former State Department officer, 3) recipient of hundreds of millions of dollars in that $5 billion Victoria Nuland famously bragged of spending in State’s effort to yank Ukraine westward and 4) a participant in apparently extensive insider dealing via the investment management company she co-founded after leaving State.”

97. mikestasseDecember 21, 2014 at 8:24 am

    There has been much debate whether the crude price implosion has been due to excess supply or not enough demand. Here, courtesy of the oil minister at the world’s largest crude supplier, is the answer:

    NAIMI SAYS DEMAND FOR OIL SLOWED MORE THAN EXPECTED: SPA
    NAIMI SAYS GLOBAL ECONOMY SLOWDOWN LARGELY BEHIND MKT PROBLEM

    Which, of course, to anyone with even the most rudimentary logic and charting skills, should not come as any surprise.

    CHART @ http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-18/oil-implosion-supply-or-demand-driven-here-very-simple-answer-thanks-saudi-arabia

98. John FraserDecember 21, 2014 at 8:47 am

    <

    @"Neil" of stupidsville

    "I see people are blaming Howard/Costello tax cuts for our problems."

    Some "people" have put their names to this :

    https://www.thesaturdaypaper.com.au/news/politics/2014/12/20/how-john-howards-tax-cuts-undid-his-protege-tony-abbott/14189940001389#.VJXtuULYKA

    Everyone gets a mention.

99. Möbius EckoDecember 21, 2014 at 10:13 am

    Neil’s answer to everything is Labor past. No matter what facts are bought against the Liberals, Neil always ignores them and brings up Labor.

    His question on Swan’s cuts is a good example. A very legitimate question but in this case it has nothing to do with highlighting a Treasure’s failure but everything to do with avoiding the previous Treasurer’s failure. So in one post you have him attack Swan for things Costello did, but he would never criticise Costello or any Liberal in the same way.

    In the distant past when Neil has been right I acknowledged it, and on two occasions when I had my facts wrong and he pulled me up, I immediately retracted and apologised. But never ever expect the same in return from Neil. When he’s proven wrong, which is almost constantly, he just completely ignores those posts highlighting his error and changes tact by attacking Labor in another area.

    Then Neil has the hide to accuse those on the Left of never criticising Labor when going back to the early days of Dunlop’s blog he was given example after example of the Left doing exactly that. There were no greater critics of the late NSW Labor government than those on the Left, but don’t ever expect Neil to reciprocate on the corruption and failures of the Liberals at all levels of government, it won’t happen.

    Neil has always been and will always be about obfuscation and diversion. He is a hypocrite and disingenuous in the extreme.

100. cuppaDecember 21, 2014 at 10:43 am

     Neil is a ‘True Believer’ – in bullshit.

101. KyranDecember 21, 2014 at 12:04 pm

     Great read, as always. At the risk of returning to the point of the article, it seems to me the global economy was presented with an opportunity post GFC to address the financial inequities inherent in the international financial system. If I recall correctly, governments across the globe bailed out those institutions “too big to fail” with the promise they would only need to do it once. As soon as the mess was cleared up, they would regulate financial markets to ensure none were “too big to fail” in the future. The Australian government of the day provided a guarantee for the big banks on the basis that, once the crisis was over, they would issue tighter controls to negate the need for any such guarantee’s in the future. G20 and similar “groups” were meant to introduce new global strategies and regulation for the financial sector (including taxation) to insure against the risk of future global financial malfunctions.
     Well, the story went quite and conservative governments were installed across the globe, so nothing was done. I agree with the premise, Mr Kelly, that the global share markets and their manipulation are the new sub prime catastrophe waiting to happen. Hopefully, the next catastrophe will see a genuine global attempt to address what is inherently a global problem. Being this close to Christmas, I can even make a Christmas wish. May the 1%’ers disappear up their own chimneys. Take care

102. John KellyDecember 21, 2014 at 12:58 pm

     Neil of Sydney, it wasn’t so much the tax cuts by either Costello or Swan that were the real problem. It was the successive surpluses that Costello engineered. Those surpluses took money out of the economy that was replaced by massive private sector debt particularly household credit card debt that still paralyses sections of our economy today.

103. Matters NotDecember 21, 2014 at 1:19 pm

     Yes John Fraser, Mike Seccombe’s ‘explanation’ is the best I’ve read on how Howard and Costello set the ball rolling. It’s now in Abbott and Hockey’s court.

     The chickens have come home to roost.

     Hockey’s own personal chickens were the least of them, notwithstanding his repeated promise before the election: “We will achieve a surplus in our first year in office and we will achieve a surplus for every year of our first term.” That promise was long ago rendered non-core. May’s budget forecast was a deficit of more than $29 billion. For that, Hockey blamed the previous Labor government.

     Things have grown vastly worse in the six months since then, though. Monday’s Mid-Year Economic and Fiscal Outlook (MYEFO) numbers showed the budget deficit had ballooned a further $10.6 billion to more than $40 billion. Now the promise is for the budget to get back in the black five years hence, and that is based on some pretty optimistic assumptions. Thus Hockey looks likely to emulate his Labor predecessor, Wayne Swan, and never deliver a surplus.

     The budget, with its raft of grossly regressive savings measures, can be seen as just one part of a long and concerted effort to redistribute income upwards. That effort began more than a decade ago when John Howard and Hockey’s predecessor, Peter Costello, ran the most profligate government in Australian history. Profligate is not our word. It was the word used by the International Monetary Fund in a major report it released early last year, that examined 200 years of government financial records across 55 major economies, identifying periods of government prudence and profligacy in spending

     John Hewson, former Liberal leader, economist and now professor with the Crawford School of Public Policy at the Australian National University, underlines the point: “The tax cuts Howard and Costello gave are now costing [the budget] about $30 billion a year, and the deficit’s $40 billion.” Without those cuts and the $9 billion Hockey gave – unasked for and against the will of treasury – to the Reserve Bank, says Hewson, “the deficit problem wouldn’t exist”.
     And that’s without including some $40 billion in tax concessions for superannuation, which accrue overwhelmingly to the wealthiest 20 per cent of taxpayers. “You can easily add it up to show that the deficit that exists today is a fake number,” says Hewson. “They’ve basically imposed it on themselves.”

     I should mention that Rudd and Swan don’t escape criticism

104. mikestasseDecember 21, 2014 at 1:49 pm

     Kyran said “it seems to me the global economy was presented with an opportunity post GFC to address the financial inequities inherent in the international financial system.”

     What ACTUALLY happened is that whist the economy had to grow exponentially (at 3 to 4% p.a.) in the early 2000’s to continue servicing debt, the production of ALL (well, nearly all) resources, particularly oil, could not. As a result, the economy switched from making things to doing things, manufacturing to services. One of those services was finance. People had to borrow to start new service sector businesses enterprises. The financial sector is now by far the biggest sector of our economy (because like the economy, it’s measured in dollars rather than bricks and mortar or thousands of rail kilometres), and much of the other OECD countries. The result was a finance bubble, still going on today, for which not much of real value is produced. Instead of being productive like we used to, we now flip each other’s hamburgers, or clean each other’s houses, or look after each other’s children while we do those other things…..

     But to service debts, you have to do or make something worthwhile, and when wages became the product of the economy rather than ‘stuff’, wages became the target of cost cuttings…. even if by stealth, like not keeping up with inflation. The rich got richer, and we the plebs…….. well you know what happened.

     Our debt levels now globally are up to 150 TRILLION DOLLARS. With a T. There is no way known they will ever be repaid, there are not enough resources left in the ground to build enough stuff to generate that amount of money. The world is BANKRUPT. There will be NO “opportunities post GFC to address the financial inequities inherent in the international financial system.” That’s why the Matrix will collapse……. there can be no other outcome.

105. stephentardrewDecember 21, 2014 at 2:34 pm

     Dennis Kucinich: There Isn’t Much Difference Between the Clintons and the Bushes

     This goes to the very heart of dysfunction in the US. We need to keep well and truly away from US interests. Get out of the Middle East for a start. Also discusses Ukraine and US intervention.

     http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/dennis_kucinich_there_isnt_much_difference_between_the_clintons_and_the_bus#14190525225491&action=collapse_widget&id=242634

106. stephentardrewDecember 21, 2014 at 2:54 pm

     As an upshot we must be more honestly critical of the USA because that is where Abbott and his LNP troglodytes formulate their Tea Party nonsense. We have to remove our rose coloured glasses and start thinking logically about international affairs. Kaye is right about the ridiculous expenditure on these high tech jets which will just lead to more complicity with the US interventions in other nations. And they cost us an arm and a leg – literally.

107. mars08December 21, 2014 at 2:56 pm

     stephentardrew:

     Dennis Kucinich: There Isn’t Much Difference Between the Clintons and the Bushes

     As the young folk used to say… uh derrr

     The whizz-kids… Blair and Clinton ARE not progressives. Never were…

108. stephentardrewDecember 21, 2014 at 4:22 pm

     Morrison has Social Services.

     From the devil to the deep blue sea – a death warrant for the poor.

     Bully boy is going to show his stripes and go down in a flood of bullshit.

     Doomsday anyone.

109. mars08December 21, 2014 at 4:30 pm

     I know nothing about the”prestige” of different government positions… is Social Services a promotion?

110. LOVODecember 21, 2014 at 5:03 pm

     Irrigators’ Ley as Health Minister 😯 … looks like Health is going the way of the Darling River 😥
     Put hers and Morriscum’s RWNJ portfolio’s together …Talk about Doomsday, you wouldn’t want to be someone whom is unable to afford Private Health Care :/

111. LeeDecember 21, 2014 at 5:30 pm

     ““still no hint of taxing the rich” except for the part where to top 15% pay the majority of taxes, right? That’s not taxing the rich…

     The problem is the other 85% and the majority of Australians who will go their whole lives without ever contributing a dollar more in taxes than the value of taxes spent on them…”

     Revolutionary arse wipe, you obviously had an extra bowl of stupid for breakfast.

     http://www.smh.com.au/comment/budget-pain-not-for-millionaires-who-pay-no-tax-20140513-zr9o3.html

     I earn $70,000 pa and I pay more income tax than the 75 wealthiest Australians combined. Gina, Jamie and Co are the ultimate leaners.

112. LOVODecember 21, 2014 at 5:31 pm

     NoS is here too 😯 *waves* … still going round and round, I see….. Please get over it Neil, Howard WAS an shit PM and WAS the worst Treasurer of all time 😛 ….. those are FACTS NoS…. you do still remember FACTS don’t you 😕 Keating built the ‘golden yars’ only to have your best bud Johnny stuff things up like he did in ’83 and that info is becoming more mainstream by the minute, umm, NoS
     (One wonders if’n one of Howards middle names or mayhap his nick-name was…… Neil… 😆 )
     Wot say ewe NoS ? …or should I call you Johnny 😉

113. stephentardrewDecember 21, 2014 at 5:39 pm

     Mars8: How to get rid of the competition yes.

114. BacchusDecember 21, 2014 at 8:27 pm

     😆 Love your work LOVO 😆

115. Neil of SydneyDecember 21, 2014 at 8:37 pm

     So you love mindless abuse?
     
     “Mike Seccombe’s ‘explanation’ is the best I’ve read on how Howard and Costello set the ball rolling.”

     Most political parties promise tax cuts. i can remember Keatings “LAW” tax cuts. Swan/Gillard had the numbers to pass anything through parliament. If they realised there was a problem with the budget why didn’t they raise income tax?

     I am sure The Greens would have gone for an income tax increase.

     Fact is i doubt many people know Swan had income tax cuts every year. SWan even publish a Table showing how much people got from his tax cuts compared to Costello

     http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/content/overview/html/overview_41.htm

116. Möbius EckoDecember 21, 2014 at 8:59 pm

     NoS Labor past.

     A mind so narrow, so closed and unable to openly address the Liberal`s gross failings all it knows to do is wallow in Labor past. It has always been thus.

117. Michael TaylorDecember 21, 2014 at 9:01 pm

     Mobius, I’m thinking of calling Neil “the archeologist”. He’s always digging up the past.

118. LeeDecember 21, 2014 at 9:06 pm

     “Mobius, I’m thinking of calling Neil “the archeologist”. He’s always digging up the past.”

     Neil is doing what conservatives do best – living in the past. They have no plans for future progress.

119. Möbius EckoDecember 21, 2014 at 9:07 pm

     A very specialised one, only seeks the same stuff over and over.

120. Kaye LeeDecember 21, 2014 at 9:34 pm

     ““still no hint of taxing the rich” except for the part where to top 15% pay the majority of taxes, right?”

     In 2010-11 the top 1 per cent of earners took home 9.2 per cent of Australian income. When we include the 2%medicare levy and the temporary high income earners levy of 2%, these people pay 39% of their income in tax if they have no deductions (in which case they need a new accountant). This average tax rate is 10% below their marginal rate of tax.

     According to the ABS, the wealthiest 20% of Australian households, with an average net worth of A$2.2 million per household in 2011-12, accounted for 61% of total household net worth. The poorest 20% of households accounted for 1% of total household net worth, and had an average net worth of $31,000 per household.

     This means that the wealthiest 20% of Australian households had net worth that was 68 times as high as the least wealthy 20%.

     The pillars of egalitarianism in Australia were high wages, high home ownership and low unemployment. If we want to regain this position, we need to ensure that unemployment remains low and that low-income earners are able to buy into affordable housing. I see no signs of this government doing anything to address these issues.

121. LOVODecember 21, 2014 at 10:50 pm

     NoS said ” So you love mindless abuse?” …… fair suck of the sauce bottle..mate…… 😯
     Please do remember NoS that I have witnessed your ’round ‘n round’ ….. time ‘n time again, cobba, you have been p*wned by…………… (wait for it)………………………. FACTS, …. and *@yawn* you have ignored ‘said’ and then regurgitated as per……. 🙄
     But hey NoS, lets not get to negative…. it’s Xmas after all 🙂 I hope you and yours have a good’n……. we ARE all Australians after all. 🙂
     ( Howards still a bit of a shit but, ay….. just sayin’ 😉 😛 )

122. BacchusDecember 21, 2014 at 11:00 pm

     The last thing anyone can call LOVO is “mindless” Neil. That moniker sits very comfortably on your shoulders though 😉 Mindlessly regurgitating Liberal talking points for almost eight years makes you very well qualified!

123. LOVODecember 21, 2014 at 11:05 pm

     “The last thing anyone can call LOVO is “mindless” Neil.” …. ah.., but the night is still young Baccs. 😉

124. RoswellDecember 21, 2014 at 11:12 pm

     Don’t tempt me, LOVO. (mrgreen)

125. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 7:05 am

     Wow, lots of mindless comments.

     If the budget is in trouble why didn’t ALP/Greens raise income tax in their last term in govt?? Why go all the way back to the 2007 Costello tax cuts and blame Costello. The alleged problem would have been more obvious in 2012 than in 2007.

     ALP/Greens had the numbers to pass any legislation.

     Perhaps Hockey should get up and say he has read Secombe and will do what he suggests. He will increase income tax back to 2007 levels.

126. Kaye LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 7:22 am

     Neil said “Why go all the way back to the 2007 Costello tax cuts and blame Costello.” I spat my coffee.

127. John FraserDecember 22, 2014 at 8:14 am

     <

     "Neil" of stupidsville is funny.

     Dumb as pig shit ….. but funny.

128. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 8:50 am

     Neil, Keating had the sense to renege on a tax cut, when it was shown not to be prudent. Suffered much for this remember if you are old enough, the backlash he suffered over L.A.W tax cuts. He did keep his promise to the voter when he gave the same amount in super contributions. Much more valuable in the long run.

129. Kaye LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 8:54 am

     And Swan backed a way from a scheduled increase in the tax free threshold and cuts to company tax.

130. Damo451December 22, 2014 at 8:58 am

     I would just like to give a bit of advice to DanDark and those involved in attacking RC.
     The guy is a fool who cannot grasp the meaning of society or the purpose of government , and come to think of it the meaning of fairness.
     In particular his comments about the GST being a tax on the rich ,shows he is either a liar or ,to stupid to even bother conversing with.
     I come to this site to be informed about current issues and have an occasional laugh at the comments ,thanks Kaye Lee and John Kelly in particular as well as others.
     Now an intellectual midget ,and/or liar , like RC ,should be given all the respect he deserves when posting here….IGNORE HIM !!
     He is nothing more than an IPA drone ,an insect if you will ,and the best response to this fool is to deprive him of a response.
     Let him converse with himself to his hearts content ,secure in the knowledge ,that once his hand is remove from his pants ,he will have contributed all he can to the conversation.

131. stephentardrewDecember 22, 2014 at 9:01 am

     I am interested in alternative and progressive ideas given that we need flexibility and open discussion. Neil has been given more than enough opportunity to be flexible but his dogged rigidity is just deflecting from open and creative discussion. He has been given free voice now its time to give it miss.

     We are talking about massive suffering, injustice and inequality while he repeats the immoral fossilized crap of failed nonconservative rubbish.

     Forty years and we are facing another recession and maybe a global depression.

     That went really well didn’t it ?

     There are more important things to do than talk with the living dead.

132. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 9:03 am

     Abbott. working at getting more women into parliament. if we get more women into parliament, we will have more women on front bench, Then more in cabinet. Why is this only a LNP problem, not Labor.

133. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 10:48 am

     “Neil, Keating had the sense to renege on a tax cut, when it was shown not to be prudent.”

     Maybe Swan should have done the same but he didn’t. In fact he gloated about his tax cuts and even published a Table in his last budget showing how much better off we were with his tax cuts compared to Costello’s.

134. LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 10:53 am

     Don’t forget Howard’s middle class welfare.

135. Kaye LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 11:17 am

     check one two, one two…is this thing working? Neil, please read my above comment about Swan backing away from increasing the tax free threshold and the cut to company tax. You ignore anything that doesn’t fit into your script.

     Damo you are right about rc and Neil but they also provide an opportunity to demonstrate how vacuous their arguments are. They represent the people the put us in this mess and we have to convince about 30,000 of them to change their minds. Luckily, the youth of Australia have been stirred from their apathy and I am confident that they will boot this mob, Neil and rc with them, to the curb.

136. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 11:21 am

     Did what Swan do work? With you lot the ALP has only to do something or even just think about doing something and that is enough for the ALP rusted ons.

     Whether it works or not does not appear to matter
     
     “They represent the people the put us in this mess”

     That is just so wrong. The mess was caused by the previous govt.

137. Kaye LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 11:27 am

     So tell me Neil, what has THIS government done to improve “the mess”. The debt is higher, the deficit is higher, unemployment is higher. And I can assure you, unlike you, I am not rusted on to anything except the truth.

138. John FraserDecember 22, 2014 at 11:32 am

     <

     "Neil" of stupidsville must be making a motza with the Abbott government running the country.

     Because "Neil" of stupidsville is always posting about how good he is in the fiscal department.

139. Kaye LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 11:35 am

     The “mess” was caused by unthinking voters who made Tony Abbott the Prime Minister of Australia much to the bemusement and amusement of the rest of the world. YOU are responsible for this Neil.

140. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 11:35 am

     “The debt is higher, the deficit is higher, unemployment is higher.”

     And Labor would have made a difference? Those three things you mentioned would be higher if the ALP was in power.

     You lot continually tell me debt and deficit do not matter. As if a people who believe that would make a difference to debt and deficit.

141. Kaye LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 11:40 am

     So I take it from your answer that you agree this government has done NOTHING to improve the situation? And could I refer you to PEFO to find out what the difference would be if Labor was still in power. We would have $28.6 billion more in revenue for starters – carbon tax, mining tax, FBT on cars, tax on annual superannuation payouts over 100,000 etc

142. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 11:57 am

     And i refer you to the 2010 PEFO

     http://www.treasury.gov.au/PublicationsAndMedia/Publications/2010/PEFO-2010/Report/Overview
     
     “The underlying cash and fiscal balances are projected to remain in deficit in 2010-11 and 2011-12, returning to surplus from 2012-13”

     Why should i believe anything Treasury publishes?

143. whatisnmoreDecember 22, 2014 at 12:54 pm

     More news on the crisis with the Russian rubble this morning , Monday 22 December.

144. John FraserDecember 22, 2014 at 1:17 pm

     <

     Why should "Neil" of stupidsville believe anything ?

     A question that will "tax" some of the greatest minds in the Universe.

145. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 1:24 pm

     Interesting to see the unemployment rate predicted in the 2010 PEFO. It was supposed to be 5% in 2013 when in reality it was 5.8% when Labor lost office.

     http://www.treasury.gov.au/PublicationsAndMedia/Publications/2010/PEFO-2010/Report/Economic-Outlook

     I am not sure why the PEFO should be highly regarded.

146. Möbius EckoDecember 22, 2014 at 1:26 pm

     I note Kaye that Neil didn’t answer your question, but obfuscated again by referring to Labor.

     Don’t expect an answer either. Neil only knows one answer to anything negative against the Liberals no matter how evidential or valid, and that’s Labor. Largely Labor past at that, and he will go back as far as possible if need be to divert away from the Liberal’s substantial failures. Yet transposed when it comes to pointing out a Liberal’s bankruptcy, especially on Howard and more especially on Howard as Treasurer, we are supposed to only look ahead, that was then, this is now.

     Hypocrite extremis.

147. Möbius EckoDecember 22, 2014 at 1:29 pm

     Neil, instead of lambasting Labor how about for once you point out the significant failures in Hockey’s MYEFOs, they make the insignificant deviations predicted in PEFO look like a superficial scratch compared to Hockey’s gaping neck to crotch open wound.

     Is it a baby step too far to ask you to address the Liberals policies and relapses without referring to Labor?

148. Damo451December 22, 2014 at 2:18 pm

     while i grealy admire your tenacity Kaye Lee ,and am impressed with your political and economical knowledge ,i really do think you are going to be banging your head against a wall with those two.
     They are either both trolls ( highly likely ) or to stupid to understand anything more than ” stop the boats ” ” Labors debt and deficit ” etc.
     Come to think of it ,the last one may be the cause of all the confusion and angst ,perhaps the problems lie with it being a 4 word slogan ,instead of the usual 3.
     Anyway ,given the latest opinion polls Labor ,57.5% and LNP 42.5% ,i think trying to persuade the 42.5% of stupid ,greedy corrupt people they are wrong is starting to become a moot point.
     I rather do hope you are right regarding the young and their apathy towards voting ,after all ,it is their future that is most at risk.

149. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 2:32 pm

     No, Kay Lee has always tried to make out the PEFO is above reproach.

     Just have a look at what the PEFO predicted in 2010 when Gillard was running for govt

     http://www.treasury.gov.au/PublicationsAndMedia/Publications/2010/PEFO-2010/Report/Economic-Outlook

     PEFO predicted a surplus of $3.5B in 2013/13

150. John KellyDecember 22, 2014 at 2:37 pm

     Observe if you will an interesting comparison. While we at AIMN are happy to argue a point with those who disagree, e.g. Neil of Sydney and Revolutionary Citizen, and even acknowledge when they are right, it is quite a different story over at Andrew Bolt’s blog. I have lost count the number of times I have posted comments on political subjects with him this year but never see them in print. In addition, while reading some of his supporters comments I am struck by the utter absurdities, the moronic ineptitude and sheer ignorance demonstrated by the things they say. I wonder if NoS and RC have noticed this too and that’s why they have come here. While the quality of their comments leave a lot to be desired, I think we are helping to improve their outlook.

151. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 2:39 pm

     surplus of $3.5B in 2012/13

     http://www.treasury.gov.au/PublicationsAndMedia/Publications/2010/PEFO-2010/Report/Fiscal-Outlook

152. CommonADecember 22, 2014 at 2:58 pm

     John, I can’t speak for NoS and RC, but having spent some time on the Bolt blog, it did nothing to help me… as you all know the writing style is designed to create angst, and mostly leaves you with a sense of hopelessness (at least if you agree with anything he is campaigning for at the time). It is not entirely dissimilar here – just with the total opposite political view… but for the most part I am enjoying the difference, and the kind posters have helped me to understand where you are coming from.

     I think there are many things we agree on, but seem to disagree most about the mechanisms to achieve the ends.

     For all those comparing Labor to Liberal… I think you are missing the point…. in the end the same stuff keeps happening, no matter who is in power… when the next social change comes up, it seems to be a matter of picking which group you want to implement it… I mean both had a policy for PPL, so that was next on the list of things to implement for both sides… just who had the better one… well that’s still up for debate, hopefully they can negotiate and come up with something we can all live with.

153. stephentardrewDecember 22, 2014 at 3:04 pm

     John I love and admire your positive attitude however the brain dead are not going to change this government and that is what we must do.

     The list of strait out lies and misinformation from these two is legion and I don’t think we need more of the same. Far be it for me to intervene because I respect AIMN’s policies however when is enough enough.

     Do we have to have a liars list for RC ans Neil before the light sparks for a mere millisecond then goes out or are we just bored shitless.

154. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 3:13 pm

     “I wonder if NoS and RC have noticed this too and that’s why they have come here.”

     I have been posting with Adrian/mobius, Min, Michael since 2007. We met on Dunlops blog just before the 2007 election.

155. mars08December 22, 2014 at 3:31 pm

     John Fraser:

     “Neil” of stupidsville must be making a motza with the Abbott government running the country…

     Ah, I certainly hope so. Otherwise, like so many cretinous Coalition voters, he is voting against HIS best interests.

156. John FraserDecember 22, 2014 at 3:38 pm

     <

     "Neil" of stupidsville might be stupid but he isn't a coward like "revolutionarycitizen".

157. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 3:44 pm

     “it is quite a different story over at Andrew Bolt’s blog. I have lost count the number of times I have posted comments on political subjects with him this year but never see them in print”

     Me too shithead.

     In case you deadbeats have forgotten you took Bolt to court and totally destroyed his blog. It has to be totally moderated so there is no chance of discussion since it takes hours for a comment to be posted, if at all.

     Like all lefties John Kelly you totally destroy anything that is good.

158. stephentardrewDecember 22, 2014 at 3:50 pm

     Now Neil I know that logic is not your strong point but that is just utter right wing whinny garbage.

159. John KellyDecember 22, 2014 at 4:20 pm

     @ Neil, “Me too shithead.” ???

     Yes, but I was contributing something intelligent.

160. John FraserDecember 22, 2014 at 4:23 pm

     <

     @"Neil" of stupidsville

     I've never even opened Bolts page.

     So it must be you that's Bolts problem.

161. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 4:32 pm

     “Yes, but I was contributing something intelligent.”

     I was angry because people like you destroyed Bolts blog.

     Because of the threat of legal action Bolts blog has to be now totally moderated. It now takes hours for a comment to be posted if at all.

     Bols blog has been totally destroyed which was most probably your aim.

162. Damo451December 22, 2014 at 4:34 pm

     Sorry Neil of Sydney ,i forgot about you when i mentioned RC before.
     So you believe Bolts blog is good do you ?
     That moron has tried to cause division and chaos through his stupidly uninformed and paid for opinion for years.
     He is nothing more than Reinharts mouthpiece bought and paid for.
     Your above comment speaks volumes about the sort of intellectual midget you are.
     Bolt ,Hadley and Jones pander to the stupid and ill informed ,which is how these amateurs got into government.
     Now the difference between lefties and right wing nuts ,is that lefties understand society and the benefits and responibilities that go with it ,and the wingnuts want to destroy and keep everything for themselves while plundering society.
     And before you parrot the age old right wing nut line about “other peoples money” , let me tell you that i resent my hard earned going to prop up a fat and greedy sloth like Reinhart or that little insect Twiggy Forrest and his company ,which hasnt paid any company tax ,and yet still benefits from ” other peoples money “. These are the REAL welfare bludgers who should be standing on their own 2 feet without bludging of my hard work.
     Now common sense and only a modicum of intelligence would show the real bludgers and leaners in our society are the corporates and the extremely wealthy who through tax minimization strategies and dodgy tax returns ,pay no or minimal tax at best.
     Now of you go back to Bolt land NoF ,where 2+2 = 3 and Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is reality.

163. Michael TaylorDecember 22, 2014 at 4:37 pm

     Nope, wasn’t me. I don’t go to Bolt’s blog either.

164. stephentardrewDecember 22, 2014 at 4:42 pm

     Mission accomplished then Neil. Couldn’t happen to a bigger dick head.

     Just made the world a better place.

165. BacchusDecember 22, 2014 at 4:53 pm

     What Neil fails to grasp is that the ruling against Bolt did nothing to “totally destroy his blog.” The findings said, “Bolt had breached the act because the articles were not written in good faith and contained factual errors.” In other words, don’t make shit up and publish it.

     Oh hang on – perhaps you’re right Neil – that’s all Bolt’s blog consists of, isn’t it? 😉 😆

166. Neil of SydneyDecember 22, 2014 at 5:00 pm

     No Bacchus

     His employers are worried they will be taken to court.

     Bolts blog is now a disaster because it takes hours for a comment to be published if at all.

     The natural totalitarians of the ALP/Greens have won.

     Factual errors?? Give me a break. As if i want to be lectured by dishonest people like yourself on what is or is not a fact.

167. stephentardrewDecember 22, 2014 at 5:06 pm

     Nasty, nasty Neil there are rules to the game and if you screw up then guess who is to blame. Little sooky fits are not going to make the lawful requirements against vilification change. You know the law is to be respected no matter whether framed judicially or legislatively.

     He broke the law and paid. No more need be said.

     Sour grapes mate because he lost and that is just the way the game is played.

     Sort of poetic justice for those who claim rule of law comes first.

     Hit a nerve hey?

168. LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 5:10 pm

     “His employers are worried they will be taken to court.”

     If he was honest there would be nothing to worry about.

169. BacchusDecember 22, 2014 at 5:22 pm

     ‘If he was honest there would be nothing to worry about.”

     😆 @ Lee – that’s much too deep for Neil 😆

170. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 6:07 pm

     Neil all you mention were slowly and surely trending downwards under Labor. Labor listened to experts, made adjustments as needed. Size of PS included. No, never got to surplus but each deficit was lower. Hockey has reverse trend.

171. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 6:11 pm

     All governments are at the mercury of prevailing economies. Can only tinker at the edge, making things easier where necessary. All governments have to cut their cloth to the economic conditions of the time.

172. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 6:16 pm

     The cry when Howard went out was that interest rates would always be lower under LNP.. This was after I think about 13 interest rises in a row. then seen over the term of not one but two Labor governments interest rates consistently at low levels.

173. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 6:26 pm

     Bolt would not have a show if it was not for Gina. Wonder what happens if they are taken over,

174. corvus boreusDecember 22, 2014 at 7:18 pm

     My heart pumps purple pity-piss on behalf of Anders Blot and his acolytes.
     Apparently there is a slow-down of his bigot-blog due to the necessity of moderation, probably checking the diatribes for offensive/libelous/criminal content. This may have something to do with Blots conviction for racial discrimination, and a desire not to be bitch-slapped again by the reality of legal consequence for intemperate claims and accusations.
     The main legal problem Blot faced was that his bigotry was backed up with inaccurate bullshit(a recurrent theme to his work). If one chooses to transgress the stated laws of society by throwing around false claims with ill-intent, do not squeal pitifully when you are legally sanctioned and whinge pathetically when subsequent restrictions are placed upon priorly flaunted freedoms.
     If you really want to vent your bile on the blog-page of a lying racist, a little patient waiting for your rants to appear in print is probably a very small sacrifice in the overall scheme of things.

175. Michael TaylorDecember 22, 2014 at 7:33 pm

     An interesting comment from Neil in January 2011:

     If you people found out who i was I am sure someone would like to kill me.

     (Comment made 5/1/2011 at 12:57am).

     So, who is he I wonder.

     Inequality and The Soul

176. LeeDecember 22, 2014 at 7:53 pm

     “So, who is he I wonder.”

     Neil of Sydney
     “Since you brought up the subject of morality I will tell you what I learn’t about the ALP from the Hawke/Keating govt.

     It is O.K. to stay married to your wife for political purposes (get an extra 3% of the vote) but to rid of them when you are no longer in govt.”

     Looks like Tony has learned that lesson too. 😉

177. BacchusDecember 22, 2014 at 8:15 pm

     “So, who is he I wonder.”

     That’s easy – he’s a cleaner at the University of New South Wales. He cleans up after the Russian scientists in the laboratories

178. John FraserDecember 22, 2014 at 8:23 pm

     <

     "Neil" of stupidsville is just plain stupid …. and he has proven that time and time again over years of comment.

179. stephentardrewDecember 22, 2014 at 8:36 pm

     Michael you are Neil. He He! gotcha.

180. Florence nee FedupDecember 22, 2014 at 11:05 pm

     The people, not us, who sued Bolt, could have done so for libel, or is it slander, I get the words mixed up. Would have been easier, and they would have collected a handy sum. Yes, Bolt pocket would be much lighter.

     He is lucky they choose to sue under the racial discrimination act, I think I have that right. No money compensation there.

     Bolt has been spreading is venom and hate for years. They wanted that to ceased.

181. Annie BDecember 23, 2014 at 12:05 am

     @Neil

     Your endless defense of the indefensible is drying up rapidly. But then, you have as much right to ‘freedom of speech’ as any of us …….

     and before anyone jumps down my throat about that…..

     i am leading in to a comment made at the time of Bolt being found guilty of ( basically ) racial vilification in 2011, noted by Federal Court Justice Mordecai Bromberg in the following final summation ( in part ) ” I have found a contravention of the Racial Discrimination Act because of the manner in which that subject matter was dealt with.” …….. and so Bolt copped it.

     Interesting though, that Tony Abbott – who was then Leader of the Opposition, came out in a carefully ( for once ) phrased support of his best friend Bolt with the following as reported :

     ” After the verdict, Opposition Leader Tony Abbott warned against restricting “the sacred principle of free speech”.

     “Free speech means the right of people to say what you don’t like, not just the right of people to say what you do like,” he said.

     In principle he was correct ….. but I am certain that’s not why he said it. ….. It was a slap at the court decision – it couid have been nothing else.

     ………

     So – Neil of Sydney ……… it really IS about time ……. you WOKE UP TO YOURSELF, and to what is really going on, in, around, with, and from this current Government.

     I CHALLENGE you to compare ( honestly that is ) …… the performance of the previous Labor Government, in seeing so very much legislation through to law – – – – to the pathetic attempts THIS Government has made, because it is unable to sell – to the Senate OR the people, it’s draconian and destructive ideologies. …. and while you are about it – have a good look at the popularity ( by polls ) of the Liberals at this time …… down the gurgler.

     As for your repeated comments about moderators. ……. For your information, ALL — that is ALL blogs have a moderator – and very often more than just one moderator. Depends on how big the blog becomes, or whether it is written for and at the request of another entity – e.g. Bolt for the H & WT.

     All blogs MUST have moderators ……. even the tiniest blog is watched carefully by the creator of that blog. I have an actual website, and have had to watch ( and delete ) a few nasties in the only area for comment – which is the guest book there.

     There now – that’s something new you have learned.

182. Michael TaylorDecember 23, 2014 at 3:08 am

     Neil is doing all the right things to get blocked from commenting again.

183. Kaye LeeDecember 23, 2014 at 7:48 am

     Not to worry Neil. 2UE and 2GB have just combined so you can ring in and spew your venom in person. As for Bolt’s blog, it is about time that hotbeds of racism like that were shut down. He attracts a very unsavoury group of followers. Bolt has very strong opinions about things but has never let facts get in the way of a racist spray. He was rightly called out as an ignorant slanderer, a man who has built his career on being deliberately unpleasant and flouting the law.

     In June 2003, Bolt published an article criticising Andrew Wilkie in which he quoted from a classified intelligence document written by Wilkie as an intelligence analyst for the Office of National Assessments. It was claimed, but never proven, that someone in Foreign Minister Alexander Downer’s office had leaked the document to Bolt.

     On the Stolen Generation, Bolt claims there were no large-scale removals of children “for purely racist reasons”

     In 2002, magistrate Jelena Popovic was awarded $246,000 damages for defamation after suing Bolt and the publishers of the Herald Sun over a 13 December 2000 column in which he claimed that she had “hugged two drug traffickers she let walk free”. Popovic stated that she had in fact shaken their hands to congratulate them on having completed a rehabilitation program. The jury found that what Bolt wrote was untrue, unfair and inaccurate. The Court of Appeal upheld the defamation finding, describing Bolt’s conduct as “at worst, dishonest and misleading and at best, grossly careless”.

     In September 2010, nine individuals commenced legal proceedings in the Federal Court against Bolt and the Herald Sun over two posts on Bolt’s blog. The nine sued over posts titled “It’s so hip to be black”, “White is the New Black” and “White Fellas in the Black”. The articles suggested it was fashionable for “fair-skinned people” of diverse ancestry to choose Aboriginal racial identity for the purposes of political and career clout. The applicants claimed the posts breached the Racial Discrimination Act. They sought an apology, legal costs, and a gag on republishing the articles and blogs, and “other relief as the court deems fit”. They did not seek damages.

     Bolt’s continuing problems have been of his own making as are Neil’s.

184. Möbius EckoDecember 23, 2014 at 8:27 am

     More than anything Kaye Bolt is a dog whistler. Apart from the couple of forays you mention and a small handful he has gotten away with, Bolt never directly defames or calls for attack as Jones did to incite the Cronulla riots.

     Bolt through intimation and indirect accusations incites his core readers to join the blatantly obvious dots to write and state what he cannot or is afraid to. In other words Bolt like most hard line right wingers is a coward, getting others to do his dirty work.

185. Neil of SydneyDecember 24, 2014 at 11:23 am

     “As for Bolt’s blog, it is about time that hotbeds of racism like that were shut down”

     Yes- the natural totalitarians are out in force. You people really do enjoy banning anybody you people disagree with.

     Furthermore the rest of your post was too long and boring so i fell asleep.
     
     Annie B

     You need to take a Bex and lie down.

186. Michael TaylorDecember 24, 2014 at 11:27 am

     Neil, we all fall asleep reading your comments.

     You’re a sleeping pill and a laxative all in one.

187. RoswellDecember 24, 2014 at 11:52 am

     Too long, Neil?

     I think it’s your attention span. Anything over four sentences makes your brain go wobbly.

188. Kaye LeeDecember 24, 2014 at 12:05 pm

     Sorry Neil. I should have realised that you don’t bother reading facts. And I will ALWAYS stand up against racism and discrimination Neil regardless of what any laws might say. Spreading hate and misinformation is an attack on the society in which I live and I will continue to denounce idiots like Bolt who put us all at risk not just through his racism but through his ill-informed views on pretty much everything. The Coalition climate change denying cabal must be feeling increasingly stupid. The code of conduct for the Daily Telegraph states that “Facts must be reported impartially, accurately and with integrity.” Bolt is in continual breach of this code and should consequently be shut down by his employers.

189. Annie BDecember 24, 2014 at 2:16 pm

     Neil – you haven’t taken up my challenge, I notice. ? …….. Hardly surprising.

     Your advice to me was really funny ……..

     And the only way you COULD reply, knowing your penchant for side-stepping all incontrovertible evidences – especially when it comes to your beloved Liberals, and their current behaviour.

     Perhaps I hit a nerve ? ……..

     Ah – maybe that was it ?

190. PockSuppetDecember 24, 2014 at 5:38 pm

     NoS was a high school teacher. (Scary thought hey.)
     His address is [ deleted ] and he taught at [ deleted ] school in [ deleted ].

191. Kaye LeeDecember 24, 2014 at 5:46 pm

     I would have sent a letter demanding to have my child removed from his class