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Customer Service is dead, at least at Optus

Customer Service is now Customer Obfuscation. I moved residence very early in January. During the week prior to the move I rang Optus to organise an internet connection. The internet is vital to my work and my study. I was told 18 days and that no technician would need to come to my home. I thought 18 days was an inordinately long time to wait for an internet connection in this day and age but I was sort of stuck – my mobile is with Optus: about the cheapest I could get was by bundling internet with my mobile. Apparently the delay is due to Telstra needing to do something technical in a box outside the premises. Why that takes so long is also beyond me.

Optus use Toll to deliver the modem. There was a saga with that as well, but I will not go into the details today – suffice to say it was added stress.

I called when I had not seen or heard of any modem, or any internet account details. I was assured I would have internet “after 7 pm tonight, just wait until 7 pm”. That’s lovely, I said, but I do not have a modem yet.That was on Thursday, January 19. I finally received my modem, left at the door unattended, on Friday, January 20. There was no internet, however. I called again, only to be advised that a technician needed to come out to connect the premises.

You may remember I was specifically told by Sales this would not be necessary. Of course this couldn’t happen on a Friday evening – no after hours availability. I demanded to speak to a supervisor and that was initially refused. This is important, because it is almost impossible to lodge a complaint with Optus – but more on that later. By the time I did speak to one I was quite stressed. This saga had gone on long enough and in my view Optus should have been bending over backwards to keep the customer satisfied. I was rather cross I’d been told no install technician was needed, only to discover at the last minute that one was indeed required.

That, I was told, was the fault of Sales. I should ring them and given them feedback, it was suggested. No, I countered, you call them and give the feedback. The next bit stunned me. The supervisor advised Support could not call Sales to provide feedback. What? Optus is a telecommunications company but can’t “telecommunicate” internally? No because the phones are for the customers, I was told. I can understand the Level 1 technicians not being able to call Sales, but a supervisor should be able to.

All this time Optus were gleefully charging me $10 a gigabyte for tethering my devices to my mobile data – thankfully that weekend a very kind neighbour allowed me to connect to her wi-fi.

On Saturday I tried contacting Optus via their Twitter account, rather than ring the Support number again. Eventually, after lengthy discussions, I booked a technician for Tuesday afternoon, January 24. I was specifically told the technician needed the whole half day – as it turns out he needs all of ten minutes. I had really wanted to go to another provider by this stage, but it seemed as if I was so close now: I couldn’t face starting the whole process with a different provider. Oddly, Optus sold me ADSL2+ whereas the Telstra website advises cable is available for my address. I haven’t followed up that apparent anomaly either.

The technician told me he had just learnt a trick a few days prior – when the user goes to the default router URL for the first time, the user needs to log in. The default username at initial connection is




Silly me, I expected a proper username from Optus. “No”, said the technician, “just leave it as it is and type in password as the password, all lower case. I only learnt that the other day – then it will bring everything down the line for you.”

I have a reasonable amount of IT experience and this sounded very odd to me, but OK, whatever. I just wanted the internet. It worked. For about two hours. I’ve since reasoned that john_citizen is probably a test username for troubleshooting purposes by technicians, set to time out after a specified period – my guess from my experience is about two hours.

So I call Support. I go through the whole Level 1 troubleshooting script including a factory reset of the modem. At one stage I was transferred out of Optus to a third party service (but was not told it was an outside provider) that wanted to charge me $90 to “fix” my computer, then transferred back to Optus when the external party decided it was definitely an Optus issue (by now there was a red light on the modem, you see). Back through the menu and recorded messages, again. I may well have confused the issue as I had tried setting up a Home Group at the exact time that the internet dropped out so initially I thought that MAY have been the problem. Far from it, as it turns out, but Support should have been able to determine that without transferring me out.

After about an hour I happened to mention the install technician had signed me in as john_citizen. What were my login details, the technician asked. No-one had given me any. 1 hour, 14 minutes and 29 seconds after my initial call, I had a username of my own and a temporary password that lasts 7 days. We tried unsuccessfully to log me into the Optus site that would allow me to change the temporary password to a permanent password, but I kept getting the error “Oops! Your account is not active. Please call Customer Care”. The technician I was speaking to could not fix that problem (he didn’t have the required access rights), but promised he would get the issue fixed and get back to me Wednesday evening. He tried, but my phone did not ring once – I got about five voicemail messages all at once delivered at nearly 10 pm. The Optus mobile service clearly wasn’t working very well either that day. In one message he left a “direct” number for me, but in the confusion with so many messages, I deleted the wrong one – the one with the number. So I waited hoping he would try again perhaps on Friday (Thursday was Australia Day). No further contact.

I really loathe calling the Support number. Once I get through the menu system to the option I need, I then have to listen to a recorded message that says something along the lines of ” Do you know that most broadband issues can be resolved by turning your modem off for 3 seconds then turning it back on. If that has solved your problem and you no longer need to speak to us, you may hang up now.” That message plays THREE times before you actually get a place in the queue. THREE TIMES! I wonder how many people actually hang up and never get through! Customer Obfuscation! So I waited, hoping for the call.

My temporary password was scheduled to run out tomorrow, so by today I decided I’d better get it resolved. I tried Twitter again. Notice it says “LIVE SERVICE” below.


Below is part of our conversation. Note the Optus representative clearly states “we are not a live chat service”. So the web site says it is but the operator says it isn’t?



Note also what is stated about the optuszoo link: “is our old self service and is only used for a small number …” Not according to the Support technicians – that is exactly where they take you to attempt to change the internet password. Customer Obfuscation!

I bit the bullet and called the Support number. Held on through the menu and the dreaded “switch off your modem” message THREE times. Explained the whole story yet again. The Support technician tested a few things, took control of my PC, then decided I needed to speak to Customer Service. On hold again. Customer Service painstakingly explain the “My Account” is different to the modem/internet login. Yes, I know this, however the only place I can change my internet password, according to the technicians, is from the Member Services area (which, if you remember, I was told on Twitter isn’t used any more). Customer Service did make some changes to my My Account, then I went to Member Services.

Surprise, surprise!!! The username showing there is the username from my OLD internet service, disconnected in February 2016. The internet username attached to this new service was nowhere to be found. The Customer Service representative tried to take control of my PC by couldn’t, then advised me she could not solve the problem, it was a problem for the Technical Support team and so I was transferred back. Different person, of course, so explain the whole thing all over again. Control of my PC taken over again. Finally, after I waited for ages for this technician to speak to her manager, it was decided an IT ticket needed to be raised. This phone call was 1 hour, 23 minutes and 55 seconds.



The above time totals nearly three and a half hours of my time. That doesn’t include the initial time to buy the service in the first place, the time taken for the conversations on Twitter and Optus Live Chat or the calls to Toll re the modem delivery.

Trying to complain to Optus is impossible. When a customer such as myself finally finds the complaint page, the number is the same number as everything else and as far as I could tell there was no Complaints menu option!



I’d tried asking for a supervisor once before – wasn’t going that route again. The Telecommunications Industry Ombudsman was my only option.

Each individual front line staff member did their best. It is not the front line staff I have a problem with. Optus really need to improve their systems, processes and procedures. I am a customer paying for a service, yet Optus seem to think they are doing me a favour by letting me spend my money on their service.

Once I have logged a problem, I want to be able to talk to the ONE person until such time as my issue is resolved. I don’t want to be transferred endlessly within and outside of Optus. I don’t want to spend hours of my time going in circles and being told contradictory information by different people. My time costs as much money as anyone else’s!

Sady, it isn’t just Optus. This is just one example of terrible customer service. I am sure readers can all share their own experiences in the comments.

Why is it so hard to provide decent customer service? Why do we all put up with the bad service?

Edited to add: While my medical conditions are not the responsibility of Optus, I am under medical instructions to reduce stress. Situations such as described here are extremely stressful and did result in a flare, so a day of considerable pain. I am sure I am not the only one in our community with similar issues.


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  1. Ginny Lowndes

    I quit Optus after I was left for several days without any internet service – again. After being repeatedly cut off from the phone service I had to go to an internet cafe to try to get someone at Optus to take my complaint. Again. They couldn’t care less.

  2. James Mason

    Lucky you weren’t with Telstra Robyn .. they’re far worse, and all the same type of reasons/excuses/lies you have been through .. I’ve chucked them in after 12 years and have gone over to Virgin .. fingers crossed .. something MUST be done about this/these problem/s .. Best of luck to you from here on in ..

  3. Noel

    Robyn, I know how you feel.
    I am with iiNet, which uses Optus phones.
    I relocated on December 19, having given iiNet five days notice.
    My phone was not connected until December 23.
    On January 13 the landline and internet went dead. On Jan 14 I rang iiNet and was told the line would restored on Monday,Jan 16. It wasn’t. That afternoon I rang iiNet Support to repeat that my phone line was down. I was told that the matter was being investigated and somebody would contact me at 7-00pm the next day to explain. they didn’t.
    I rang iinet Support again on Jan 18. Still no phone connection.
    I rang again on Friday, Jan 20 and was told the delay was due to the matter not being reported until Jan 18. Hello? What happened to my reports on Jan 14 and 16?
    The phone and internet were reconnected on Jan 24…11 days after they went down. Nobody at iiNet seemed to concerned or botherred to get back to me with an explanation.
    On another matter, my mobile use for Dec/Jan was recorded as being $619.20. This is way above my normal usage. My online iiNet invoice for the billing period shows $11.81. The invoice they sent me shows $691.20.
    I complained to iiNet about this, only to find that my mobile calls to iiNet support are charged at the standard rate. I had over $80 worth of mobile calls to iiNet Support. In the good old days of iiNet Support calls were always the cost of a local call.
    As I could find no evidence on my online account fo any other costly calls, I rang iiNet Support to again query the size of my bill. The iiNet Support person agreed that my bill was way higher than usual.
    I asked him to give me the phone numbers I had allegedly called to rack up such a huge(for me)bill. He gave me some numbers which he said I had called for periods of 45 and 57 minute at a cost overall of $131.80. This did not include the expensive calls to iiNet Support for which I had to use my mobile because my landline was dead.
    I subsequently called two of the numbers that he gave me. One was Aussie Loans and the other was Voicemail Australia.
    I did not call either of these numbers(twice in the one day) and can think of no reason why I would speak to Voicemail for 53 minutes.
    I have written an ordinary letter and sent it via snail mail ti iiNet’s Customer Services Manager. I hope that they have one and i shall be very interested to read his reply.

  4. Robyn Dunphy

    I was with Telstra for nearly 40 years, James. They just got ridiculously expensive in the end so I moved. All I can say is no wonder we have a TIO!

  5. Robyn Dunphy

    Noel, that is awful – and awfully similar.I hope you get it sorted.

  6. Robyn Dunphy

    The complaint process is non-existent Ginny. When you call the TIO they ask of you have a complaint reference number from the provider. My response was it is almost impossible to log a complaint, so no, I don’t have a reference number.

  7. Dave

    Could have been worse,……….Try telstra!

  8. Peter F

    Sorry that you have had such a runaround with Optus. My experience is the complete opposite. In all of my recent dealings, Optus has been much better than Telstra. I suppose I must be lucky.

  9. 2353

    Robyn & Noel

    I also moved in January. I rang iiNet in mid- December to change the account to the new address. The new house is in an area serviced by the NBN so apparently I can’t just swap my line over. iiNet book a NBN tech to come out and connect the ‘new’ service 4 days before I move in. I ring them than tell them again the house settles three days after the tech’s visit (it being probably illegal to connect a service before I own the property).

    It takes 3 days for iiNet to change the appointment – the best they could get was 3 days after I move in. The NBNCO tech turns up, provides the modem, powers it up and the internet is working about 15 minutes later. Pity the phone isn’t. I ring iiNet and after a long wait for a return call, I get told the phone will work when the VOIP light is a steady green on the router that iiNet supply (apparently I have to use their router as I’m on the HFC system – basically re-purposed Telstra cable TV equipment). 48 hours later the light goes green.

    Half a day later, the VOIP light starts flashing again. Despite ringing iiNet twice a day for the next 5 days, the light continues to flash. I found the Complaint Escalation Process on iiNet’s website and after trying (and failing) to speak to a Customer Service Manager, I send an email to the Customer Relations team as suggested by the Complaint section of their webiste. After waiting another day or so for a response – despite the website promise that Customer Relations would respond quickly, I filed an on-line complaint with the TIO. I didn’t need a ‘complaint number’ to do so and I also emailed iiNet that I had done so. The VOIP light went steady green about 3 hours later and has (touch wood) worked since then. Someone from iiNet rang me to discuss the complaint and I discussed my experience. He (from South Africa) then sends me a confirmatory email that ignores all of the issues I discussed except that he was going to improve iiNet’s customer service.

    When the contract with iiNet is up, I will be moving to a small Australian ISP when they don’t treat their customers like mugs – something AAPT used to do before iiNet bought them out, and iiNet used to be pretty good at it as well. I’m still waiting for ‘customer experience’ to contact me.

    Best of luck and hope you get a resolution.

  10. Mic

    Where on Callufrax did you get the idea that you’re dealing with a SERVICE provider? They’re called Internet Access Providers for a reason. There’s no such thing as service, and ACCESS doesn’t work. Tough schite.

  11. Miriam English

    Ah yes. The delights of market forces.

    Makes you long for the old days when Telstra was owned by us as a socialist organisation. It didn’t have the “efficiency” of market-driven systems, so gave everybody a low-cost connection delivered with the minimum of hassle, with many free services, such as directory assistance, the time, and the weather, as well as some others. Yes, thank goodness we don’t have that anymore.

  12. Michael Taylor

    Do not get me started on internet issues, especially the NBN. One can only tolerate so much incompetence.

  13. MichaelW

    Michael Taylor, I have heard so many horror stories about the NBN, My local mechanic three weeks without internet or phone while trying to run a business, this is one of dozens, my son just switched over to the NBN, useless, in fact adsl worked fine with Netflix all he gets now is buffering.
    I am hanging out, six months to go before I have to change over to Malcolm’s useless internet. Unfortunately we have no choice.

    I don’t think the service providers are at fault it’s just an absolute coalition debacle, like most of their policies.

  14. havanaliedown

    After being told it would be at least a year away (July 2017), Optus called me not long after saying it was ready any time. I had NBN within the week but four days later mysteriously no internet. The technician disconnected me whilst connecting a neighbour. Since it was restored, dropouts have been minimal.

    Michael, measure your download speeds so you know how the NBN compares once it’s active: and

    30 Mbps is my peak speed, dropping to about 15Mbps in the evenings. This is up from 3mbps on the old ADSL. Observing NBN at the site you do notice a more “gentle” acceleration, but an overall faster download speed. Telstra, as ever with it’s marketing ahead of fulfillment, raised unrealistic expectations with the their TV ads featuring the family strapping on their space helmets.

  15. Kaye Lee

    The mix of various technologies means they don’t get economies of scale. They were getting much quicker at FttP with practice but that was all thrown out. They then rushed out FttN in some marginal seats. My business was without EFTPOS for two months. I am still pursuing a business loss claim. Now my home phone and internet drop out often – just for a short while usually but often enough to be really annoying. And it is slow.

    Mobile phone reception is intermittent at best and non-existent in some spots despite my local member promising to fix it at the last two elections.

    Other than that…..

  16. Carlton

    We recently enjoyed (please read in sarcasm font) the experience of moving from ADSL 2 to NBN FTTN with Telstra… In the end it took a total of 5 weeks of being stuffed around & having a service turned off (ADSL) without confirming that the NBN service was actually working.. apparently that’s just how Telstra roll… not their fault apparently, just the way their process works… but, not flawed. Their solution.. go to a telstra shop & buy a mobile dongle & then we’ll put some credit on it for you… Well.. fortunately I already had one but, when the small amount of data was used up they didn’t want to give us more… no no this is just an interim service.. you can’t expect us to provide you with the service your paying for via mobile broadband.. badluck that your wife & child are studying at university & need the internet connectivity inorder to study & pass their course… After 5 weeks.. 10 minute visit by the technician & we are connected but… no phone… Back onto Telstra ‘oh… you wanted a phone with that.. well you should have said so…’ ummm.. we were bundled WTF do you think I wanted.. We will be leaving Telstra shortly.. and not be going back ever… hopefully the NBN (even though it’s not what it should be – thanks Malcolm) will be the end of Telstra’s monopoly of telecommunications & internet service & result in the downfall of that enormous cluster f… k company. We will be moving to a little guy ISP where customer service is important because it means more business…

  17. Marto

    In February of 2016 I ordered a service with Optus. I’m still waiting. It’s not 2016 anymore.

  18. wam

    What a fabulous description of ‘OBFUSCATION’!!!
    It brought tears to my eyes when I thought of the poor people dealing with CENTRELINK.
    Some times you can be lucky, we met a young woman in telstra who took two oldies in hand and wow what service. Fantastic CHEAP
    After 6 months my darling went to get a new iphone and giving me her old phone and ipad.
    Bang all tied sweetly in a bow.
    My grandson came over and in 4 days used 85% of my month’s download. She restored it.

  19. @RosemaryJ36

    I use iinet as my ISP (and for my incoming only calls landline) but, because they link to Optus which gives poor service in my area, I use Telstra for my mobile. NBN is as yet a distant possibility in my area. I have been fortunate to have had efficient and prompt service and support all round. Fingers crossed for the future!

  20. Pilot

    Trust your local LNP representative, they know and will fix everything! This is the free market! The LNP loves the free market! Guys you must remember that Malcom Turnbull invented the internet, according to Tony Abbott, you remember that oh so honest former PM, the guy that doesn’t lie. Yeah, we’re all better off now, things are running as they were designed…. And don’t forget that we had 100Mbs ripped away from us on the original design to be given 25Mbs by the guys who know what we need, and they guy who invented the internet whatsyjigger.

    My last interaction with Telstra over internet problems, well before broadband was in the pipework, each and every operator tried to divert attention. In the end I had 5 of their staff in tears and blubbering like babies, including 2 so called supervisors. Went to Exetel, and you guessed it, same deal, but at least they have a forum, and boy oh boy don’t I give them hell on that, but on Exetel we are speaking to foreigners, so I don’t give a rat’s @rse how abusive I get, but we get results. It should NOT be like this. I should NOT have to abuse people to get decent service and stop the lies and “obfuscation”.

    Ironic isn’t it? We have the bloke who allegedly invented the internet running the show and still we have this avoidable situation.

    Yes, I know MALcontent didn’t invent the internet, because me and me mates invented it over a few beers years ago………hahaha

  21. Brian

    The problem of getting a complaint lodged has a number of solutions. Email the TIO and cc your local MP and Senator in to every conversation. Secondly, if you can’t get a complaint reference, create your own. Contact the telco via Chat and screen capture the conversation. It will also have a time and date stamp. Email that to the TIO as your reference and it is a hard copy of your written communications with the Telco. Tip – always be polite.

  22. Kaye Lee

    Brian, I lodged my complaint with the TIO last March. I ring every now and then to be told nothing will happen quickly with my complaint. I have to give the telcos time to respond. During this time,every person I have dealt with at both telcos and the TIO have moved on – “sorry we didn’t get your last email, Mark no longer works for us”.

    It took two months for them to get my business reconnected and we are up to 10 months and counting to resolve my business loss claim. The TIO is overwhelmed with complaints. Every NBN technician (most of them contractors) told me the rollout is a nightmare. The guy in NBN sales told me he had his own complaint in with the TIO regarding his home service. The whole thing is a debacle.

    And it could have been so good.

  23. bobrafto

    I was with Optus for over 20 years, had a few spats in those years and the Optus people were over accommodating with credits and apologies. I only left becos I now get free wifi as part of the rent deal.

    I find getting on the live chats brings faster results.

  24. Robyn Dunphy

    Reading all the experiences, I am astounded the telcos are still in business!

    Kaye, I agree the mix of technologies isn’t helpful – nor is the infrastructure situation (much owned by Telstra, hence the supposed-to-be-transparent-to-the-end-user inter-telco transactions). But over all, apart from the few positive stories above of wam, bobrafto and RosemaryJ36 particularly (encouraging) the experience is one of trial and tribulation.

    This is my third complaint over the years to the TIO. One involved Telstra, which is not bad given I was with them for so long, the other two both relate to Optus.

    I am not surprised the TIO is overwhelmed with complaints. If the customers billed the telcos for the hours involved, they’d go out of business. But of course, we can’t do that.

    I am yet to experience the joys of the NBN. Maybe I never will!

  25. Genius on Demand™

    It should have been easy to undelete your voice message. Oh wait – that requires visual voicemail which is only a feature of iOS and only available through Telstra and Vodafone. I guess your mobile is probably with Optus too, right?

    Unfortunately, for many users, the problems you describe are the nature of the beast.
    Highly experienced and valuable support staff do not man the phones and those who do are often hamstrung by our feeble explanations, frustrations and limited understanding.

    In my business I often deal with issues like these on behalf of my clients. I’d like to say it takes less time with an experienced helper at this end of the equation, but at the very least I can reduce the tension for all parties as the issues are worked through.

  26. jimhaz

    My internet drops out every time it rains for a few days. If a weekend I have to restart so many times. i know it will be rather troublesome and expensive to get this fixed, so I have not bothered.

    “I feel it is a little ridiculous that I will need to lodge a complaint with the TIO to get anything done everytime it rains for a problem that is clearly to do with the pit filling with water. The one outside my house is clearly damaged. I can see and feel holes in the crappy plastic seal. I live in an estate that is just over 6 years old. This really shouldn’t be an issue.”

    With Turnbull’s NBN fire to node we can expect a lot more of this sort or problem. Perhaps the above is actually NBN related in that they have no intention of servicing old nodes – therefore water problems are becoming more pronounced.

  27. king1394

    I have ‘stay with Telstra’ virtually tattooed on my forehead. Every other company is worse than they are. Yes Telstra can be frustrating but they usually work out problems quite quickly. When I decided to get the NBN it was a simple matter, dealt with by my son in about 20 minutes. There were a couple of teething problems with the modem dropping out but (touch wood) we have not had any real problems. It is still slow but this is a country town and we are on the copper wires with a green NBN box about 200 metres from the house.

  28. LOVO

    In my area we are still waiting to get Adsl 1/2…mobile broadband is all we have 🙁

  29. Harquebus

    Here is a web site that I visit every day. Perhaps some can find solutions to their NBN problems here and if not, can join and ask. (Scroll down to discussion forum) I’ve been a member for years.


  30. win jeavons

    Ain’t technology wonderful! Dodo has driven my son and myself to fury with their failures. When you ring ,it is some young person in another country and EVERY time you have to tell them the problem -why , with modern technology can’t they bring up YOUR file and address the problem smartly. Perhaps it would cost too much to do this and train persons to a minimum of competence. No wonder there are so many unemployed in Aus. The net was down most of yesterday, not unusual.

  31. LOVO

    Ah, Privatisation. …half the service for twice the price…..gee I miss the PMG…the CES………….the real NBN……but what I do so miss is government ‘backin’ the people in’, as it were.

  32. Clean livin

    If you have a problem with Telstra, go to the CEO. The office has a team to deal with these issues.

    I received great, step by step service.

    When I switched to NBN, my service was down for less than 55 minutes.

  33. townsvilleblog

    With so many Australian ISPs I’ll never know why Australians give their business to Singapore Telecom in other words Optus?

  34. townsvilleblog

    Just for the record we are with Westnet/iinet and so far have had very few problems.

  35. Genius on Demand™

    There aren’t that many ISPs. For example,the following are all really TPG-

    Adam Internet
    AAPT Limited
    Agile Communications
    Chime Communications
    PIPE Networks

  36. Annie B

    Robyn ( and all others who have had problems ) …. I sympathise.

    Have never entertained the idea of Telstra ( Bigpond ), or Optus.

    Have been with my ISP for 16 years ( iPrimus ) … and they are usually very good, however, they have taken away their 24/7 service which was so useful – especially at 3 a.m. when a tech was all too ready to talk and fix things, to relieve his boredom. They have cut their service !! .. First sign of a downgrading of service ? I hope not.

    Had a call from one of their co-opted marketing mobs the other day ( an Indian lass, I could only barely understand ) … who was offering me unlimited Gb download for $20.00 MORE per month, than I already pay, ( which is for 200 Gb – of which I would only ever use about 30 Gigs p/m max.). Again, I suspect they might be going the way of all flesh, in telecommunications. … I hope not.

    There is no way I would ever bundle all devices with the one operator. I have internet connection with iPrimus, and my Huawai Smartphone with Vodaphone, at limited data download, by choice. I also will never connect my Smart TV via Wi-Fi ( which runs my computer and my Smartphone now ). Seems to me that technology has outsmarted itself, and I see in my minds eye, a catastrophic tangle of ‘spaghetti’, with so many ISP’s and other providers, ALL using Telstra owned wires, cables, screws, needles, pins and dunny paper, with the resultant mish-mash, and mis-match of telecommunication ‘stuff’.

    As a result of a mis-handled iPhone, using / via Telstra … the iPad I used ( gifted and registered to another person who hates it and all technology ) now no longer works. I had listed myself as secondary user of the iPad. For months all worked beautifully – super stuff. Then the original owner pressed a wrong option on his iPhone, which apparently requested alignment and connection to – the iPad. … Apple techs. very kindly and more than willingly spent 2+ hours on the phone with me, calling me back on my own smartphone, so that cost would not be incurred by me – to try and fix the ridiculous situation. They accessed my screen only ( with my permission ) … led me to many many ways of fixing the problem – but to no avail. Turns out the activation block was Gmails’ fault ( along with Telstra – can’t explain that ), and I have not been able to resolve it. The original owners’ Gmail account and password ( which I’d had to register, along with my own ) has forever disappeared into tech. heaven – and the iPad is stuffed. My own Gmail account is ok.

    It was so damned useful too. !! 🙁 grrr. I dread contacting Google Australia in Sydney, as I believe they would require an up front payment to ‘look at things’ before they will attempt to answer even a question. ( stand to be corrected on that one ). Certainly contacting Google in America to fix a problem, calls for up front payment ( around AU$120 ) !! No amount of google activation on-line, has resolved this situation via my PC.

    So much for the ease and efficiency we were promised in the beginning, of great access to so much information, email, research etc. Now we have all this other added stuff, which must be sooo very complex now, it is reaching the almost impossible stage.

    I dread the thought of NBN on its’ way. … Aaarrrgggh !!

  37. Miriam English

    Annie, it doesn’t have to be complicated. I have a friend who grew up in Zambia. She goes back there to be with family and friends from time to time. She’s explained how confusing phones are over here compared to in Zambia, where they just work. She is a bit of a technophobe and while she has lots of trouble with her phone and computer in Australia she has no such problems over there.

    I would never advise anybody to get an Apple computer. I’ve helped too many people with their ridiculously expensive fashionista toys when they have trouble with them. I stick to the cheapie devices. I always buy the cheapest desktop computer I can find and specify no operating system be included in the machine — I install Linux on it myself, which is free and easy to fix. I have a couple of extremely cheap Android tablets (one 10″ and one 7″). They are very reliable and extremely easy to use. And if these cheap machines get broken or die I’ve lost very little. I love technology, but have no desire to be dependent upon it.

  38. Annie B

    Miriam ….

    A bit late replying – but want to thank you for your helpful advice here. Will look at the Android tablets myself, and see what I can start up – all over again. The Apple can go in the trash bin. Still have to work out the problem with Gmail for Neil – as he will want to use it in the near future, which is a big pain in the butt …..

    Anyway, thanks again – the Linux sounds more than interesting. Just wondering how it would go with all my years of saved stuff from Windows. – photos, M/S office etc. And the mail ? Will go to Linux and have a good look at all their recommendations, how it works etc.

    Many thanks again.

  39. Miriam English

    All your data can be used in Linux. Pictures can be edited with Gimp, which is free. Microsoft Office files (Word documents, Excel spreadsheets, etc) can be edited in OpenOffice or LibreOffice, both of which are free. There are many email programs for Linux. I use the Mozilla email program which is part of the Seamonkey suite. It is pretty-much identical to the standalone email program Thunderbird. Seamonkey and Thunderbird run exactly the same way on a Microsoft Windows machine as they do on a Linux machine. If you use Microsoft Outlook for email, I believe the email can be imported into Mozilla’s email programs. If you use Gmail in a web browser then you can access it exactly the same way — in a web browser — on MSWindows or Linux (or Android).

    No worries, Annie. If you have any troubles please feel free to contact me through my blog, or here, or I can give you my email address or my phone number..

  40. Annie B


    thank you for the excellent advice you’ve given here. Have taken a c and p of it all, and will have a look at all that you have suggested by name. Have never heard of Seamonkey or Thunderbird. I use Google Chrome which no longer supports this and that. But have so much saved there !! 🙁

    Will contact you again via your own blog – when I get around to doing a lot of this. So busy at the moment, too old for all this rush, rush stuff.


    Michael ….

    My Avast anti-virus popped up as soon as I opened this article to reply to Miriam. Blocked something or other – and showed it as malware. Thought I’d best let you know about that. The A-V would not have been mistaken. Although it did not then close down the site.


  41. peter brewster

    disgusting service install left in a mess customer service didnt give a shit all they do is shop you from dept to dept untill you get bored and hang up

  42. Patrick Dilibent

    Just had this experience. Suddenly their (imposed) cable modem + wifi decided to DNS half resolve resulting in pages partially rendered, strangely, only for wifi. Restarting the modem several times did not fix it.

    First call : went thru the first line support (patiented up to the “you may hang up now” but persevered, at least got a human to talk to. After explaining what DNS is, the guy finally says with the expert tone: “you have to factory reset your modem”. I said, “What? No, no, that is not a good answer, you have to tell me the steps to fix this WITHOUT factory reset!” – and after worthless loops (as you know, those guys are programmed to repeat the same sentence again and again wthout listening to you), ending up being transferred to the “Premium Home Service”. After listening to my complaint… the new guy wants to put me on hold to research the question, but in fact, I am back to the initial phone menu. Optus, a communication company, is unable to operate its internal phone equipment. Back to square one.

    Second call: different person. Explaining again. Then she makes me to enter two magic DNS server addresses thru the Mac’s Network (advanced!) configuration. The page suddenly renders Ok. She says fixed. “What? What about all the devices in the house? The modem is supposed to provide the DNS servers to connected devices”. Answer from the support person: “I don’t know”. I said, the proper fix is to tell me how to setup properly the modem. Answer, again: “I don’t know”. Then : “so, what about someone who knows about it?”. Answer: “I put you thru the Premium Home Service”. Cut again (obviously, she did not know how to operate a transfer).

    Third time: (yet another support person), This time I don’t waste IT, I ask straight: please transfer me directly to “Premium Home Services, and by the way, give me their number”. Guess what? Cut again.

    In the mean time, being IT resourceful (and being myself a support engineer, with a company with 99% software satisfaction, we are proud of it), I went thru the modem admin interface, and found a “renew release” which seemed to reset the modem connection out there, and it worked!

    Punchline: Optus does not have any support, it is just a facade. They do not know anything more about networking than the ordinary person, in fact far less. They are a waste of time and money, and I am going to switch tomorrow. Enough with the crap.

  43. La Lorraine

    How do they get away with it is what I want to know? So many people complaining about what, to me, seem like issues that should be simple enough to fix. I wouldn’t use any of them if I could live without my internet! They’re all the same in my view. I’m with Telstra and I hate having to contact them – getting passed from pillar to post, speaking to people who can’t understand me and whom I can’t understand either… Give me strength!

  44. free91806Bill

    Sadly Robyn your experience mirrors many Optus and indeed Telstra clients s. With a move to the NBN these once carriers are now just resellers with huge overheads. The NBN has highlighted just how much the Australian public is being sidelined by all in the Comunicatiobns industry. The tax payer paid for a 100MBPS network only to now see Optus and others carve up the speed into quartered lots, essentially we build a highway- they close all lanes except the ones you have to pay extra for. Customer service is now non existent to cover this rort. The only way you can complain is to write (in this day and age) a letter or suffer endless looping phone answering layers to eventually end up nowhere.Same with their so called Chat function, their online feedback form which rarely works. Its all part of the ploy to avoid the issue, hoping most will just give up. Pretty Bad form when a so called communications provider just cant and wont communicate.
    luckily there are other resellers (see My Republic) some who will at least provide a fair deal but many however follow Optus rip off lead.

    The Ombudsman also will do nothing to help its all part of the “customer avoidance plan” one can only lay at the feet of the Minister for communications. he must know about it all or perhaps is just plain incompetent.

  45. TED

    A quick comment regarding my optus experience. My mum received a letter in the mail regarding the nbn migration. She is pretty old and I am her carer, so I tried processing the migration request. I found out the service was in my dads name and I had to process a change of lessee into my mums name and have myself nominated as a authorised rep. So I had to go down to a optus store with my mum and the required documents. The manager at the Burwood Westfield store was wonderful, he processed the faxed the documents to the back of house area. He advised that it usually takes approx. 48 hours to process, but to give it a week. I called back yesterday after 10 days.After 2 and a half hours on the phone I was told by a operator in Philippines he did not know what was happening. I was told If a migration order was not processed it would result in the service being disconnected. So I asked the operator to note on my account that I have tried to do this but optus seems to send me around in circles. I then contacted the TIO and raised a complaint. I received a call today from optus’s complaints resolution team. I was pretty much railroaded to shut up and listen. Every time I tried to raise a concern I was told “I AM NOT GOING TO TO SIT HERE AND LET YOU ATTACK ME” also “DO YOU WANT ME TO HELP YOU OR NOT” This was one of the resolution’s officer standard line. I was told a change of lessee could take a month to complete. I was also shut down with lines like, there are no records on your account. we did not receive it, I am not responsible for what some other operator has told you. I suppose all this operator tried to do was push me past the point and then write off the complaint as a abusive caller/subscriber. I called The TIO again and explained, I was advised that optus had until a certain date to resolve the issue, But I received a automated call from optus this afternoon,again sending me in circles. I also received a letter stating I had to migrate, or the service would be disconnected. It feels like the TIO has no powers and optus gets away with whatever. I think our politicians need to make changes that makes companies like optus more accountable. This has been such a frustrating experience.

  46. Anniebee

    Ted … … Personally, I am dreading the introduction of the NBN via my own ISP – although they have always been very helpful over many years. ( iPrimus ). I am off contract at present, and cannot do anything about listing myself for NBN until I take out another contract [ with them ] – which I am happy to do – sometime in the near future.

    I believe ( have been advised ) that people have 18 months to sort out what they want to do about NBN … e.g. change ISP’s, go with a new bundle on current ISP, wait and see if the whole debacle is sorted ( the latter comment I doubt will happen – especially with the current monster government at the helm ).

    You did not specify how long your Mum has on contract which was in your Dads’ name. This smacks to me of being out of contract. IF your Mum / in Dad’s name / you as rep. are still out of contract, even though you have signed forms as to who is representing your mother —– I would give Optus the biggest kick to the kerb possible. And I wouldn’t go near Telstra either. There are plenty of ISP’s available, who are doing the right thing to attract a bigger share of the goods at this time, and are most likely – because they are in ‘selling mode’ … more reliable. I don’t speak to anyone off-shore if I can help it. …. All I say is “I cannot understand what you are saying” ….. which is NOT a lie – 99% of the time, I haven’t a clue what other cultures are speaking to me. I have a hearing problem, and explain that at the time, although I doubt they understand anything about it !!!! I always ask to be patched back to an Australian operator, and most times they will do that.

    If I cop abuse from an off-shore ( or on-shore ) respondent, I hang up – and report the incident to whatever company ( bank, insurance company, whatever ) via email, or letter.

    Believe me, I can understand your frustration … and while the ombudsman is dealing with it, you are not liable for any incurred expense ( so I believe ). Have a chat to another ISP about the situation – that might help. And check that your Mum / Dad previously — are now OUT of contract.

    Good luck ……….

  47. jimmy

    Dead optus customer service, it has cost me 5 hours waiting and they keep transfer you to finance department, technical department, billing department, and they just play this again and again. now it is still going on and on.
    the worst thing is that optus breaching the contract and overcharging me $25/m more than sales person agreed price.
    leave optus and never connected with optus again.

  48. jimmy

    terrible optus service, anyone has the similar experience and we can take collection legal action to stop optus to rip off customers

  49. Anniebee

    What should be simple, and was some years back, has become a monster. I don’t think now that any ISP’s are without their problems. Technology going way too fast.

    Currently, there has been a huge virus glitch in the Adobe Flash Player, which Kaspersky has recommended disabling altogether. Mozilla won’t touch it – refuse to play anything that requires Flash Player. However, many sites ( including Facebook ) put up a warning ( and so does AIM site here, right now – because I use Google to access it ) …. that “Adobe F P was blocked because it is out of date” ( which it isn’t on my computer ). It then gives two options [ update plugin ] which is an exercise in futility, or [ Run this time ], presumably because the site has adequate a-v and other goodies, to stop the virus spread. Or perhaps there is some other technological bizzo that allows Flash Player to be used on ‘run this time’.

    Jimmy I think your current problems with Optus should be referred to the ombudsman. I figure that department would be up to the ceiling with complaints … however, it is worth a try.

    Miriam .. btw, the iPad problem I had earlier in the year, is now resolved. Took some doing but came down to ( for the umpteenth time ) creating new passwords. Sounds simple, but it wasn’t. All up and going well now, and so much convenience using the iPad. Less $$ too – not having to get a new Android or any other tablet.

  50. Miriam English

    Annie, here is a video about selecting passwords (actually, passphrases) that I heartily recommend. It made a big change in my thinking:

    Brute-forcing your Box – Password Security

  51. Min

    Really dead customer services. I am not sure it is the management or tech system problem or because the customer services are offshore. I have been being Optus’s cusstomer for more than a year, it is always direct debit payment to pay my bill. Normally, the bill was deducted from my credit card every month automatically.
    Things happened since I changed my credit card number. In October this year, I changed my credit card number for direct debit. The due date of the bill in October was 31st. On 26th of october, I called up the customer services and told them that my new credit card number, and my old card was cancelled. and I asked them to charge my bills to the new card. I though everything was fine, because I did same things – call up other companies for the change of the card number, other companies were going well. They have no issues at all. On 15th of November, I got a text message from Optus which stated that I need to pay the bills, and the amount was more than double amount of regular monthly payment. I called them them immediately to check if there was something wrong. Customer service said the deduction could not go through. I said of course it would not go through if you still used my old card number. Again, I provided my new credit card number for the direct debit account, and changed the extra late payment charges which I should not be charged. I called up them again in 10 minutes later to confirm if they put on a notes, and asked them providing me with a receipt referece number and their name, they said everything was fine. up to this stage, I called up them 3 times to make sure everything was fine. If you think that the problem was solved,(I thought so as well) then you (I was) are wrong. On 7th of December, suddenly I got a call from their debt collection department team. They said I was put in a debt collection because I did not pay my bill, and asked if I have set up a direct debit account with them. I have been being with than almost 2 years now, I set up a direct debit with them since the beginning. Now I still have no idea what is wrong with them. I told them 3 times of changing my credit card, but they still cannot get it!!! If it is management system messy, the direct debit account technology problem, it seems nobody is really working, the services staff have no idea what they are doing. They do not make any senses. It is exhausted to talk to them. So I agree the Optus customer services are dead.

  52. Phil

    I just had Optus workers turn up to my place unannounced and started cutting cables. They entered my property without permission . They had the previous owners name from 8 years ago.
    I have spent 1.5 hours trying to contact complaints head office with no success. Very poor customer service. I will be contacting the Ombudsman.

  53. Anniebee

    Phil…. A tad late replying – apologies for that, and I hope you have resolved something of this situation.

    It is my belief that no-one can enter your property and begin to do anything at all on it, without your permission, or without previous written advice ( e.g. – letters are sent here [ Victoria ] advising residents of electrical outages while a contract company cuts back dangerous foliage near wires, prior to summer ). If they were cutting cables ON your property, the police should have been informed at least – and THEY should have been informed that you had done that. Probably a bit late now with this information, but by hell they wouldn’t get past me to do anything on my property.

    I do think that sometimes, ( without any discrimination from me here ) … various employees who are from other countries, simply do NOT understand the rights and wrongs … and if they are told to ‘do a job’ they do it, regardless of laws. This is not altogether their fault – it is the fault of the company employing them. Then again, some are cheeky, aggressive and intrusive, and think they can dictate whatever they want.

    This kind of garbage has to stop.

  54. Marcus Garrett

    This absolutely describes our experience. We are in the middle of a remarkably similar experience with Optus – repeated service failures and shunted around between ‘tech help’ consultants, hours in phone queues, running so-called trouble shooting tests over and over, being promised call-backs from ‘CRTs’ (Customer Response Teamss) and ‘CMTs’ (Case Management Teams) which are never made… on and on and on, over weeks… and still no resolution. This is the third time in 8 months this kind of lengthy saga has occurred, each time the same experience. We now have three modems (none of which are faulty – it is and always has been a dodgy line that Optus seem unwilling to fix with a real live technician), and to add insult to injury, when they sent that last new modem they had the hide to recontract us for an additional 24 months under a ‘new plan’ (I had no idea that by agreeing to have a new modem sent to troubleshoot the problem, that I was agreeing to a new contract). I have also lodged a formal complaint to the Ombudsman because – surprise surprise – when I call to cancel my service, the ‘cancellation’ phone option is ‘experiencing technical issues and we can’t answer your call’!! Unbelievable. I am starting to wonder whether I am in a bizarre social experiment to see how far a customer can be pushed before he/she goes postal. Optus are beyond bad for customer service.

  55. Annie B

    To Marcus Garrett —

    Caveat Emptor … “let the buyer beware” … I have been caught more times than I care to admit, by not reading the fine print ( read miniscule print ) attached to contracts, or … in contracts over the phone, in not stopping them and asking what this, that, the other – means, before accepting… while writing it down.

    I so empathise with your current situation. As said before, iPrimus has always done right by me – even if slowly at times, and at least 90% of the time, I speak to someone I can actually understand, with them. Have nothing against Indian peoples, they are nice folk – but so very difficult to understand at times. I have no suggestions as to solutions with your problems with Optus – except to know ( from others’ experiences ) I wouldn’t touch them ……. but that is of absolutely NO help to you.

    I so hope you can resolve this situation, and do so by using the appropriate Ombudsman. That office must be up to its ears and beyond, dealing with complaints, but it is worth the wait while they get around to your specific issue …. and – once a complaint is in the ombudsmans hands, all transactions are frozen ( at least I believe that to be so – but I stand to be corrected on that ).

    Good luck in the future … and once off the forced Optus contract – do some shopping for a properly reliable ISP.

    Cheers … ~~

  56. D Miles

    I am in the middle of a month long dispute with Optus which cut my landline after switching me to NBN. Reported to TIO after 16 days of daily calls and hour long waits on hold and explaining the problem over and over. Optus issued a new reference number as soon as TIO contacted it which meant the tech support mysteriously had no record of the history. Repeatedly got no call backs, but got multiple txts after each call saying my problem was fixed, and asking how I would rate Optus (minus a gazillion?) and would I recommend Optus to friends and family (ha ha ha ha….). Hours and hours spent in the ridiculous “help line” Kafkaesque menu: press 2, press 3 press 5, press 7, press 2 again and listen to terrible on hold music. And still get nowhere.
    Optus store staff when I went there to ask for help told me there is no number in Australia to call as all “customer service” is offshore now and told me to go to Telstra even though it’s just as bad!
    Repeated assurances from the so called tech support (who couldn’t fix anything and just read a script – have you plugged the modem in, have you turned the phone on, have you reset the modem, have you done the bleeding obvious….) that my bill would be refunded, and then I was charged the full amount yesterday. Rang again and tried to get speak to anyone in billing without having to repeat the entire history of the issue again and again and again. No such thing as a billing section. When I said TIO had given Optus until the 16th Feb to resolve my issue Optus hung up.
    We need a Royal Commission into the telcos.

  57. Glen Wilkinson

    Feb 2018 changed to Optus Unlimited data plan and promised everthing would take effect on 1st March , end of March still on old plan, countless phone calls and false promises to fix it have all amounted to nothing.

    Go to Hell Optus!!!!!!!!!!!!

  58. Mari Kaukura

    I have had the same stressful experience. I should have been on the phone again today but I just didn’t want the headache of being frustrated and like you said my time is precious too.I didn’t want to be stuck on the phone for god knows how long. I’ve already spoken to more than 10 service operators whose first language is clearly not English in 8wks about incorrect personal details, non delivery of product, wrong product and the final insult a over due bill that was being posted to some random address which I was asked who’s address it was? When I demanded to be transferred to the complaints dept I got silence. I repeated myself and got we don’t have that we don’t have it. Unbelievable. I ended that tragic 58min conversation with $20 taken off the overdue Bill that has my name on it with someone elses address and 8 days to pay $437. This has been the most disgusting customer service I have ever encountered. I should have hung up on the optus sales rep who randomly rang me to offer this fantastic package deal with Optus. I have only been a optus customer for 3 months. If I don’t get a fair and resoniable result from the inconvenient inefficient and neglectful service Optus has provided me then I will be taking my business to another provider and they can take me to court for their $437. Maybe then I’ll be able to sit back and put the kettle on.

  59. NIcole

    Simply a sausage factory!
    No time taken to hear of your concerns. Just a quick fix and then you need to follow up as your bill is still incorrect.
    I have been going through this since January 2018
    My internet was disconnected. Optus advised me that they had received a proof of occupancy for my residence and that I didn’t live there any more.
    It took me two months to sort that out. They stated they had made an error.
    They then wanted me to go on a new plan as it was a new connection.
    This took me another two months to sort that out.
    My bills are still being overcharged and am now trying to sort that out.
    The TIO have mediated throughout this whole ordeal. Without them I would still have no internet.
    Unfortunately I don’t be have a choice. I can only have Optus internet.
    My mobiles will be changed over to another service provider. Understand that there probably isn’t one good service provider and can only hope that the next royal commission is on telecommunications.
    Why don’t the CEOs and bodies care about their existing customers and the appalling customer service that is received. I’m baffled and disgusted that due to an error Optus madebi am the one trying to sort this out for five months.

  60. Kristian

    As of today, 9th June 2018, I am going through pretty much the exact same thing. I’m still trying to resolve the issue after 2 months and I’m still getting the run around!!! More than a year after this article has been written and Optus still can’t sort it out. It’s about time government stepped in to make these these telco’s accountable!!! It really is a disgrace that this can be such a common problem with Optus and other providers.

  61. Tom

    December 2018. Guess what….. Nothing has changed. Put the fear into the call centre by placing a complaint to the telco Onbudsman. Optus called back tge same day and after a week of no internet, voila! Internet. Follow up call from support that evening. Wanting to close the case. I sayd no. Had internet for a whole day! Wow impressive!(not) Given I don’t have a direct contact number for the support person that called me and gave me their avatar name, I have to wait again with no internet for their comfy call. I forgot to mention the support person offered a free bump up in my connection speed. When I tested, it came in at 10 Mega bits on my 12 megabit plan. My mobile via Kogan gets 21. Go figure how wireless is now faster than wired!
    I can see another chat with the Onbudsman.
    Have a nice day people.

  62. Malcolm Wright

    Nothing has changed! Late 2017 (sic) I requested connection to NBN when available. Told it was imminent. 3 Boxes arrived from Toll with ‘instructions’ to connect them. Mercifully I didnt even try – just stayed with existing installation. Told in December that NBN would be ‘arriving’ on 11 Jan 2019 (that’s 15 months later and boxes still unopened on a chair). I hurried home from a FIFO contract in WA to be there. Nope – a van arrived and hung a coil of wire on the wall of the house. Then nothing. 2 weeks ago several text messages saying they had tried to call me many times and they needed to install NBN. Called a call center – which judging by the noise and accents was in the Philippines or maybe a kids party someplace. 66 minutes later we finally got a date and time. 3 more boxes came from Toll. now 6 in all. On the day the tech arrived but regretted that he was unable to connect the peripheral modem, TV or phone lines – not his job. Nevertheless he gave helpful information but didnt like to risk it. His time here was interrupted by countless phone calls from his office. Nice guy but under pressure. Then another tech called saying he was on his way but as the first tech was still there we told him not to come! Optus give an option to have a tech come and install the stuff in the home so I called to get an appointment. VERY reluctant to offer any onsite service – advice to go to live chat or call and get ‘walked through the process’. No – i want the service I requested and am prepared to pay for. Finally agreed and appointment made. The next day a call from NBN (not Optus) wearily explaining that is not their job. Seems Optsu just dumped my request on them representing it as a fault. As of now in limbo. If I connect it up and get it wrong I’ll lose the good service I actually have and may not be able to get back. I do need a fax for my job and although NBN told me it was ok and could be installed the NBN people say no. So right now after hours of daft phone calls to anything ranging from robo-chat to trying-to-be helpful techs I still have 5 boxes (one was the NBN terminal and has been installed and has some lights on it.) And no idea what to do next. The Optus staff simply cant understand that I dont live my life on a mobile phone like some high school kid. At worst they were inept and at best patronizing ‘ Yesterday reproachful text messages from Optus saying I still hadn’t activated my NBN. I asked for an onsite installation in an accessible inner-city area and it hasn’t happened

  63. Nie Wu

    Optus drive me crazy, a guy called John said he will fix the phone line problem and also will fix account issue where I don’t have to pay for the bills as there are no connection. While John put me for hold and so far I was with this call for 2 hours and 41 minutes, another lady picked up the line and know nothing about my case, and told me the line just transferred to her. I was crying as I spent nearly 3 hours for nothing again. Which is happened to me many times for last 4 month. I said thanks God all I said being recorded. How bad is Optus Service. I am totally mad! Please any efficient way to complain Optus?

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