Contrarians

31 Comments

1. She is barely a blip on the radar of any scientist I suspect,and that would be more than her opinion is worth.

   Unfortunately she is dangerous, as the vast swathes of those with a similar level of education can be easily influenced by such foolish gibberish. These are probably some of the same folk who believe that 9/11 was a CIA operation, that the Holocaust didn’t happen and maybe even that the earth is flat and Noah deliberately left the unicorns behind.

   Hopefully, like the dinosaurs they are, they too will die out.

2. Pauline probably researched the science by watching the Jurassic Park movies.

3. Pauline gets her climate change advice from Malcolm Roberts.

   “The objective is global control through global socialist governance by international bankers hiding control behind environmentalism” says Roberts.

   In 2013, Roberts wrote a document titled CSIROh! – Climate of Deception or First Step to Freedom, sent it to everyone he could think of, and challenged them to respond, stating a failure to do so would be taken as endorsement.

   This is the beginning of the response from Ben Cubby, the environment editor at the Sydney Morning Herald

   Malcolm-Ieuan,

   In considering your request that I identify errors in the report you sent to me – CSIROh! Climate of Deception? Or First Step to Freedom? – I find myself confronting an unusual problem: how does one critically analyse a pile of horse shit?

   Meet Malcolm Roberts, Pauline Hanson’s “expert” on climate change.

   He is number one on the Queensland One Nation Senate (packapoo)ticket

4. Dear Keith,
   Pauline and I, we are simpletons and 100% of scientists agree that climate change is ongoing and natural.
   So stick your epochs and analogs and tell us what you are talking about. Global warming? Climate change?

5. wam,

   As I have tried to explain to you before, global warming causes climate change. Burning fossil fuels increases global warming thus exacerbating climate change. One hopes that is simple enough for you this time.

6. The MSM is running their own series of Fear Campaigns, to help Scotty out.
   The favourite meme they like to run is “Your home value is falling because of Labor”.

7. whatever,

   They also are running with “how much does your climate change plan cost” and “help they are stealing my franking credits”. I am truly astonished by the greed of my generation who don’t seem to give a toss about anything except their personal wealth.

8. Wam

   Thank you for your comment : “So stick your epochs and analogs and tell us what you are talking about. Global warming? Climate change?”

   It angers me when people presume to know more than Professional people with a PhD, who have studied climate science over around 10 years, to gain accreditation. Politicians such as Hanson need to gain information from those with appropriate qualifications, rather than disparage experts.
   The Earth is warming when taking into account the aggregate of global temperatures … global warming.
   Higher temperature trigger all sorts of extreme conditions, providing climate change to be an appropriate term.

   Climate has changed in the past, man has given it a real fillip through burning fossil fuels. Currently, global temperatures should be slightly decreasing.

   To be valid science needs to have the ability to be replicated.

9. Keith raises a question on a multitude of lips just now.

   Here are the perplexed Katharine Murphy’s musings from today’s Grauniad:

   https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/may/01/the-coalition-is-normalising-the-far-right-with-its-one-nation-and-palmer-deals

   But I will not comment further after being beaten into a corner senseless at the presentations concerning such issues on various outlets at the ABC.

   Truly, stunned, dismayed..

10. Seems that almost anything of value is translated and expressed in monetary terms these days. And most ‘objectors’ don’t seem to realise they are often a willing part part of the problem. One example – citizens become taxpayers (and vice versa) – and their role in society, government and like is accepted as being interchangeable (and without question – let alone analysis).

    Perhaps we should recognise the problem – it is us.

11. Also, the ABC Vote Compass website seems to me an exercise in “Push Polling”. They ask about your thoughts on the “Immigration Issue”, for example. Its not an issue for me.

12. Keith, It was presumptuous of me to answer wam’s question to you. I am not a climate scientist but an avid reader of what they are telling us. It must be unbelievably frustrating for you experts to still be trying to convince us to act,

    Once again, I apologise for jumping in, but I cannot understand why it isn’t our highest priority. Remove the emotion even and do cost-benefit… it’s criminally negligent to not act now.

13. whatever,

    I get polled continually. They ask who do you think is better on border security. I say it isn’t an issue. They make me pick an answer so I say the Greens cause they are less likely to piss off some other country. It’s just silly.

14. Kaye Lee, if wam wasn’t able to answer for wamself, which is quite possible on past history, then you must not reprimand yourself for an act of generosity of spirit in providing the poster with the answer he/she actually would have offered if in their right mind.

    But I appreciate your predicament. If you were remotely like me, for example, you would probably find it hard enough work thinking for yourself without having to carry the load for others less capable.

    As to the upcoming election, my theory is that it is a depressing task, seeking to sort the bad from worse to the worst before election day in an information vacuum generated by tabloidia,.

    It will go away soon but pray to god the worst does not come to the worst. If it does today’s problems will seem as nothing against what the future may have in store..

15. What we really need for this thread is some stuff from Neil of Sydney, et al.

16. @Kate Lee:

    1) Burning fossil fuels like coal, natural gas, and carbon based materials including petroleum and all its derivatives creates atmospheric CO2 as the product of the burning process.

    2) Fossil fuel consumption has increased, continues to increase, and has now past “Peak Oil” exploration.

    3) Increasing fossil fuel consumption naturally increases CO2 production.

    4) Climate changes, such as increases in maximum temperatures, storm frequency & severity, tidal surges, drought frequency & duration, are all related statistically to these increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.

    5) There may be other local factors in specific circumstances, but the correlation to climate change is independently reproducible at the different locations round the world by different research groups acting independently.

    6) Therefore a skeptic could reasonably form the logical conclusion that the over-arching cause of these numerous changes over time and over vast geographic distances between locations is world wide climate change caused by a single environmental factor that geologists, paleo-botanists, geographers plus other thinking lay people and professionals can demonstrate is increased atmospheric CO2 levels.

    QED

    OK, I should probably disclose that I have studied Biology and so have a professional knowledge of these topics.

17. @Paul Walter: I too am dismayed by the Far Right wing political bias expounded by “MY ABC”. I expect “my” employees to treat all material in a balanced manner.

    However, I understand that under the present neo-Fascist regime of Murdoch-mediocrity manipulating Far Right Neo-Fascist political parties in the Australian Parliament, many of the excellent journalists at the ABC have been intimidated or possibly even directed on pain of dismissal to toe the neo-Fascist line in all their publications.

    Bring on the election so that thinking Australians may eject this Lazy Nasty People misgovernment of sociopaths from the Treasury benches rather than democratically install another Fascist regime as occurred in Germany in 1933.

18. Kaye

    No need to apologise, when the right answer is provided, it does not matter who provides it. The answer is reinforced when other people’s comments provide the same or similar answer. The denial industry is huge, and fits neatly into conservative political philosophy where regulation is taboo. Google and Youtube do lead to many contrarian sites or films. There are very few climate scientists; mainly elderly it would seem, who still argue that anthropogenic climate change is not happening or hardly happening.

    My background is in social science; but, have spent far more time and energy researching climate science than for the degree I hold. In my work I had contact with many Professionals from a number of disciplines, and have experienced how less than a handful were caught up in breaches of ethics in the area where I worked. Hence I get quite cranky when the reputations of scientists are treated in a cavalier manner. They do not get credit for the very specialised work that they are involved in.

    Retirement has provided many hours for reading and research. Not only do I try and follow science as best I can, there being so much, I go down the rabbit holes that deniers provide with the few references they provide.

19. I know it’s been said before but it bears repeating.

    Let’s assume that climate change and global warming is a Leftie conspiracy promulgated by the ABC and of course AIMN as suggested by the conservative right.

    Let’s assume none the less that we embark on a global program of reducing carbon emissions, that we embrace renewable energy and power, that we phase out the extraction and burning of fossil fuels.

    What’s the worst that can happen ?

    Seems to me that the most dire consequence could be that we clean up our atmosphere and our waterways, that we make the air breathable and the water drinkable and that we end up with a healthier planet to pass on to future generations.

    I can live with that – as can future generations of plants and animals.

20. Terence

    Each year millions of people die from the emissions of fossil fuels particularly in Asia, mine workers can develop black lung disease. A few weeks ago, there was an article about how coal dust was hitting an area in Siberia hard terrible health problems. Snow was coated black from coal dust.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/siberia-toxic-black-snow-reveals-toll-coal-mining-180971525/

21. The optimist in me says that we should see a change in attitude soon.Th realist says that propaganda works. I live in hope, having already voted.

22. A few local observations on the changes: a couple of months ago here on the Sunshine Coast we were hit by a combination of monster high tides and a monster swell, at the peak of this breaking waves were hitting the dune that many expensive houses are built on (the north end of sunshine beach, Seaview terrace, pat rafter recently sold his house their for $15 million). For waves to be bashing this dune means that they have exceeded by a couple of hundred metres anything I or many others have ever witnessed and overtopped a smaller dune and gully to get there. On Noosa main beach sandbags were deployed in an attempt to stop the ocean travelling over the boardwalk through several businesses and into Hastings Street. Many tons of sand taken, leaving a 2-3 metre drop from boardwalk to beach.

    So, call it what you will, changing or warming or f#cking well whatever, we need to get our heads out of our arses and demand action. Yes, we are criminally negligent.

23. If I may suggest a simple answer to those who say “climate has always changed”: It has never changed at this speed except when caused by a catastrophic event such as a meteor-strike. The current rate of climate change is thousands of times faster than it changed in the past. This can be attributed to the increase in atmospheric CO2 by simple physics. A rough calculation of this effect was made by the scientist Arrhenius and published at the end of the 19th century. Anyone can look these things up if they so choose.

    On the other hand, the great self-appointed climate scientist, Maurice Newman, is still warning us to be prepared for global cooling. No doubt the warming being witnessed is entirely a result of the BOM fudging the figures. Of course they have to be in cahoots with the BOMs in every other country to also fudge the figures along the same lines. Why do they do this? Because they are all being slipped brown paper bags by that cabal of international financiers, whose identity has been sprung by Malcolm Roberts, the investigative journalist par excellence! (It would never do for the BOM employees to have money going into their bank accounts, would it? That would expose the whole scheme. So brown paper bags it is, and piles of cash under the mattress.)

24. A few days ago I forwarded a few questions to all candidates for the Victorian electorate of Monash: Seems that PHON candidates do have a real problem:although they actually answered, which is more than some other candidates, and incumbents, have done.

    monash@onenation.com.au
    Tue, Apr 30, 4:39 PM (2 days ago)
    to me

    “Dear David

    I have a question for you:

    Suppose that tomorrow Australia shuts down every coal-fired power station, closes every airport, turns off every train, truck, car, motor bike, tractor and marine vessel – in other words, reduces our emissions from the burning of fossil fuels to zero:

    Can you tell me in which aspects you believe that Climate Change will slow, stop or even reverse; and how soon will this occur?

    Will the temperature of the planet change? Rainfall patterns? Extreme weather events? Coral Bleaching? Sea Levels? Glaciers? Polar Ice Caps? And how long will it take before these changes can be measured? A week? A year? A decade? A century? Longer?

    I mean, you would have to have a fair idea of exactly how the climate would change before committing to such a comprehensive change in how we live our lives, wouldn’t you?

    The only thing the planet needs saving from is rabid enviro-NAZI’s who masquerade as caring about the environment but are actually closet totalitarians who want to be able to control other people’s lives by impoverishing them with ridiculously high energy prices.

    The climate has always changed and it always will. We’re better off learning to adapt as our ancestors did.

    Our Climate Policy is here: https://www.onenation.org.au/policies/climate-change/

    Sincerely

    Jeff Waddell

    Candidate for Monash

    Pauline Hanson’s One Nation”

25. “The climate has always changed and it always will. We’re better off learning to adapt as our ancestors did.”

    Our ancestors never had to adapt to a climate changing as rapidly as this.
    The simplest way to adapt is to reduce our production of Greenhouse gases. Any other ideas are most welcome.

26. One way our ancestors adapted was to move inland as the water rose. Are they suggesting we up stakes and abandon the coast? Do they think that will be cheaper than moving to renewable energy?

27. How strange, the respondent writes “Dear David, I have a question for you”: then asks me fifteen questions. That’s probably about the betting odds for him, 15 to 1.

28. Actually he’s paying $51

29. NEC never thought doubted you. Your posts demonstrate that you are way too smart to be fooled by Tory propaganda at the IPA’s ABC.

    Kaye Lee, this is a red later day..scintillating form you are in!

30. David

    One Nation references don’t bear any scrutiny:

    TheAustralian is completely unreliable on climate change.
    Jenny Marohasy is not a Meteorologist, BoM uses homogenisation as does the US, it has proven to work.
    Climate Gate has been investigated a number of times … even by the British Parliament. PHON are sharing a conspiracy theory.
    Marohasy again
    P2K provides the gold standard reference in relation the last 2,000 years. I didn’t go to the PHON reference as result.
    Milankovitch cycles, nobody argues against them.
    Professor Richard Alley has talked about Earth’s tilt to US, nothing controversial, it is well known.
    Malcolm Roberts … honestly?
    President Obama had a very hostile Republican Congress and House of Reps.
    .Obfuscation of the highest order … what happens in Europe won’t necessarily happen in Australia … scare campaign.
    Per capita Australian’s have a huge carbon footprint. The coal exported comes back to bite us through greenhouse gases.
    IPCC uses thousands of science studies published in the couple of years prior to the Report being made up. Temperature measured by different International Agencies such as JAXA, NASA, Cowtan & Way, HADCRUT4 and Berkeley all agree with one another about temperature measure.
    Marohahasy again.
    Nobody that has any sense of concern about humanity would offer the IPA as a reference. They are extreme odious conservatives who do not believe in climate change, recycling opinions debunked numerous time.

    And so it goes on with nonsense from PHON.

31. The points made above were just a little to bald so have written a little on temperature measure.
    The Bureau of Meteorology has been said to be manipulating temperature data falsely by Marohasy and others, through the process of homogenisation. The process of homogenisation is used world wide. Marohasy is/has been a member of the extreme conservative IPA.

    A little history, Anthony Watts, from WUWT made a fuss about temperature homogenisation in the USA, stating a number of weather stations were giving false information with the implication fraud was taking place. The environment around weather stations can change over a period of decades by trees being grown or cut down, buildings being built in the vicinity, and asphalt being laid etc. As a result of changes which alter temperature readings, the process of homogenisation takes place to take into account changes made. The temperature readings of weather stations nominated by Watts were taken, and compared with stations that were seen to be fine by Watts. Surprise, the aggregate temperature from both sets of temperature matched. Afterwards, the US placed some weather stations in places where change was unlikely to happen as datum points.

    Professor Richard Muller, was a skeptic of anthropogenic climate change, he gained funding from the Koch brothers (fossil fuel entrepreneurs) to appraise data in relation to official temperature readings. Professor Muller found that official temperature measures were completely legitimate.
    Watts had stated he would abide by the findings of Professor Muller, he hasn’t.
    Watts provides laughable comments about the Arctic Ocean sea ice rebounding periodically.

    Resulting from Professor Muller’s appraisal, Berkeley Earth was created.

    Temperature does not necessarily have to be measured by thermometer, changes in the environment through growing seasons changing, glaciers melting, and habitats changing; give an indication of temperature change.

    References provided can be quite crappy to underpin an opinion, displayed by PHON.