The Coalition has an economic plan - it just isn't a good one - » The Australian Independent Media Network

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wamJune 28, 2016 at 9:48 am

funny that the only people who say the liberals are economic managers are the libs the only people who say labor are not economic managers are the libs whilst the world praises labor they called little johnnie profligate.
The sad thing is that the libs include the murdoch press, ch9, ch7 and, by design to avoid bias, the abc.
Wonder if Labor realise the AAA is theirs?
ps
the free trade with china will kill the unions and put the minimum wage into septic country.
Ruth LJune 28, 2016 at 9:58 am

Worthy of a front page in the Financial Review
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 10:19 am

Well said, Kaye.

The counter-intuitive stupidity of this filthy neoliberal LNP Degenerate regime has my blood boiling. Pigs in suits.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 10:22 am

A priority for the New Alliance Government on 3 July is to tear up all of Murdoch’s media licences and tightening licensing laws for MSM, including ABC.

If CEO’s can’t live up to full accountability to the public, FINITO! Not looking good for Michelle Guthrie.
cornlegendJune 28, 2016 at 10:57 am

Yeaterday during my stint at pre polling I gave a woman {50ish} on a walking frame {DSP} she informed me and her disabled some {20ish} a lift home because it was bloody freezing,
On the trip home she informed me they voted LNP because they were better at the Economy and Malcolm Turnbull was rich and would know how to keep the Economy strong a he did with his own dough.
I said nothing as she had already voted .
Now that got me thinking 😀
This election will either be won by Labor or the LNP,
Plenty on here are saying “Why vote for the big bad 2”
My answer is, One of them will govern
But, after all that, why should I care about “the greater good’ when it seems not to many others do
I personally would gain advantage from some LNP policies, and could get into things like negative gearing and could double the current investment properties, turn over say to day management to a Property Management company although this would mean lagre rental increases to current tenants as Property Management will only handle stock at “market value”
If the LNP win, I don’t intend to hang around and will go on a 26 month break,
I’ll just make sure my employees have decent private health cover, ample super and adequate housing and vehicle access as part of their employment contracts
I don’t think I’ll bother campaigning anymore before election and me and the missus will head of to Star City for a few days and just come back to scrutineer.
I’m at the stage, as are quite a few on the AIMN of not being too concerned about the outcome from a personal perspective
The ‘Greater Good” will have to be fought by those dependant on it.
No more politics for me this week, I’m over it and will be content with whatever the result
Not much I can do about it
See you in the wash up
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 11:02 am

cornlegend,

can I work for you? 🙂
Michael TaylorJune 28, 2016 at 11:03 am

You couldn’t say they were ‘informed voters’, Corny.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 11:10 am

That is the sad part Michael. People should be able to trust politicians to tell the truth and the media to inform them of facts.
StephenJune 28, 2016 at 11:14 am

Liberal voters remind me of that scene in The matrix
“You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.”
We can all pretty much guess which one they selected.
Sadly so does the Labor Party a lot of times.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 11:16 am

Thankfully not everyone is as clueless as the woman that Cornlegend helped. I still don’t see her ignorance as justification to vote for second worst though.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 11:23 am

Athena,

I do empathise with your view but mine is a bit different. First step is to get the Coalition out which can only be achieved by voting for a Labor majority in the HoR (I hope we could also keep the Independents). Then, at the next election, Labor will be the incumbents so a hung parliament is a much better scenario then.
helvityniJune 28, 2016 at 11:25 am

On last night’s Q&A I expected Cormann to talk about the Coalition economic plan, all I understood from his waffle was, Labor this, Labor that, Labor everything, even the Plebiscite was somehow connected to Labor…zzz, hubby was snoring before the show was over. In which cave do the Liberals find those cormans, duttons, muttons… God help Australia.
FreethinkerJune 28, 2016 at 11:30 am

I guess that for us the progressive people our only hope is to campaign to make the young aware of political issues, options and make sure that in future elections they participate voting with an educated opinion.
IMO when the young start getting involved things will change for the better.
Here, in Tasmania I do not see students organizing street meetings discussing issues like the cost of education and other issues that can be important for them.
A social and peaceful revolution have to start soon.
cornlegendJune 28, 2016 at 11:39 am

Athena
“Thankfully not everyone is as clueless as the woman that Cornlegend helped.”
Having been out and about for weeks, talking to 40-50 prepoll workers across 3 electorates and personally having visited 30 odd Electorates it is far more common than you would even hazard to guess.People coming back going around the pre poll workers looking for “TonyAbbotts Partys Ticket” asking how to vote for Pauline Hanson as PM, a pregnant unemployed woman voting LNP to get “$75,000 PPL that Abbott got in because it is better than Centrelink payments”, “Not voting for Shorten cause Turnbull smiles more and is happier”
Geez, I could write a book !!

Michael TaylorJune 28, 2016 at 11:03 am

You couldn’t say they were ‘informed voters’, Corny.
You are right Michael ,
Bu what do you do?
“I read it in the Tele, Alan Jones said, Bolt said” are way way too common responses
If Shorten can drag back 12 he will have done a good job
KlausJune 28, 2016 at 11:41 am

The ignorance of many Australian voters is more than frustrating. That is how the LNP has a chance, nothing else. Murdoch does keep them in a state of ignorant bliss.
cornlegendJune 28, 2016 at 11:43 am

Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 11:10 am

That is the sad part Michael. People should be able to trust politicians to tell the truth and the media to inform them of facts.
And the vast majority get their “facts” from MSM . as mentioned above to Michael.
The thing that did come as a bit of shock in Grayndler, Sydney and Warringah is those who quoted Larry Pickering and his site FFS
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 11:43 am

Freethinker,

I heartily agree. That is why education is SO important. There should be a civic awareness aspect to school education.

I don’t think Bill answers the questions put to him about the benefits of education well. They want numbers – there is an OECD report stating that “if Australia was to improve its performance on the PISA tests by 25 points, GDP would expand by 7.2 per cent; equivalent to $4.8 trillion by 2095.”

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/oecd-education-rankings-show-australia-slipping-asian-countries-in-the-lead-20150525-gh94eu.html#ixzz4CplcOadb

The Grattan Institute found that….

“An increase in teacher effectiveness of 10% would lift Australia’s education systems into the highest performing group of countries in the world. In the longer-term, this improves the productivity of Australian workers, which increases long-run economic growth by $90 billion by 2050, making Australians 12% richer by the turn of the century. This is in addition to the other benefits to individual wellbeing and society of better education.

Improving teacher effectiveness also has substantial economic benefits for individuals. Young people who stay in school and invest in further education can expect to earn an additional 8-10% per year for each additional year of education they undertake.”
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 11:52 am

Getup wants volunteers to call the homes of constituents of Bass, Dickson and Mayo which are the seats of Nikolic, Dutton and Briggs and which wouldn’t take much to win. If you want to chip away at the filthy Liberal Party’s neoliberal clutch on power, help Getup get them.

See http://field.getup.org.au/calling_from_home_info
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 11:55 am

“First step is to get the Coalition out which can only be achieved by voting for Labor in the HoR. ”

Kaye, we could all vote Green in the HoR since they have a candidate in every seat. That would also get rid of the Coalition.
Ian JoynerJune 28, 2016 at 12:04 pm

The Liberals do this every election. “We have to make big cuts now for the future”.
Well the future is now. Where are the results of their previous elections?
No they just want to cut and be mean for the sake of it, and give our taxpayer dollars away to big business, so they fund the Liberal’s next election campaign. It is a corrupt cycle.
They make out they are making tough decisions – well tough decisions aren’t necessarily good decisions. The Liberals make bad decisions – they are bad economic managers.
jimJune 28, 2016 at 12:12 pm

I find it shame that on Q&A there was no mention of the huge cuts the Libs did to the first peoples or the bulldozing of the lifestyle settlements in WA.funny that.

But of course they don’t talk of the Liberals history when they got the Labor party to destroy.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 12:12 pm

“The ignorance of many Australian voters is more than frustrating. That is how the LNP has a chance, nothing else. Murdoch does keep them in a state of ignorant bliss.”

This is true, however the Liberal Party is so much better at promoting themselves than the ALP too. Yesterday I received a postcard from Christopher Pyne. What does the opposition think of Christopher Pyne? It features three quotes from Nick Xenophon in 2010, Jay Weatherill (SA Premier – ALP) and Tom Koutsantonis (SA pollie – ALP) all praising Pyne. Burn! That’s extremely clever marketing and the ALP just doesn’t come close when marketing their product. The ALP has also been disappointing in their use of social media. They can and should be using it to get around Murdoch’s spin.
FreethinkerJune 28, 2016 at 12:14 pm

Kaye, and it is not only the formal education that I am referring also educate them to be aware of social and political issues.
Back in my mother country at high school age I remember well when thousands of us when to see and hearing what Ernesto Che Guevara have to say.
I pull my hair when I see here boys and girls over 16 having not idea of current affairs and not be able to have their own educated opinion about topics that concern their future.
If we do not change this situation there will be no hope.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 12:15 pm

I should add that while people like Sales and Henderson grill Bill about proof of the economic benefits of investing in education, they show a lot less zeal in asking Turnbull for proof that company tax cuts provide any economic benefit.

Treasury expects that cutting corporate tax rates to 25% will only increase the incomes of Australians – GNI – by 0.8%.

If company taxes are lower, other taxes have to be higher, all other things being equal. If the shortfall is made up from increased personal income tax Treasury estimates that GNI will increase by just 0.6% in 25 years time, or roughly $10 billion a year in today’s dollars.

Treasury modelling also finds that the level of employment in 20 or 30 years’ time will be just 0.1 per cent higher than otherwise.
If you wanted to create jobs, cutting the tax on foreign investors isn’t the way to do it.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 12:17 pm

“The Liberals do this every election. “We have to make big cuts now for the future”. ”

@Ian, unfortunately the ALP has used the same lie on the electorate. This is the problem with lies. It backs them into a corner and then they have great difficulty combating the lie when it is told by the Liberal Party. If the ALP was honest, informed the electorate that those cuts are not necessary and that the deficit isn’t evil, then the LNP’s spin wouldn’t be so effective.
Keitha GranvilleJune 28, 2016 at 12:18 pm

The fact that Labor got us the AAA was mentioned this morning on Sky, with Kroger dribbling on and on about how hopeless the Labor party has always been at management. ” Bill Shorten has never run any company so he couldn’t possibly run a country ” Um, what about TA then ?? Why did they choose him ??? They already dumped Malcolm once, how come he is suddenly the best thing since sliced bread ??
I sadly fear those uninformed in the electorate who will just swallow the guff being fed to them by the LNP. And I totally agree that there needs to be much more education in senior schools about politics – although I am gratified that my youngest child’s cohort are ALL voting and ALL voting Labor. They DO think.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 12:19 pm

Athena,

Even you can’t believe that the Greens could win 76 seats in the HoR this election.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 12:28 pm

Vote Greens #1 and Labor #2. Labor still wins but with respect and reference to the Greens.

Best result for representative government and LNP loses!
Michael TaylorJune 28, 2016 at 12:31 pm

Kaye, have you been hiding under a rock? The LNP do have a plan, and it’s a good one. It’s called “Jobs and Growth”, and in three words it answers every question anybody has on the economy. ?
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 12:41 pm

So it would seem Michael. As Scott Morrison said when asked why the change in rhetoric about debt and deficit disaster, “You’re asking me about politics.”
cornlegendJune 28, 2016 at 12:44 pm

Jennifer, just before I go,
The Greens preferences leak to the LNP at a pretty high rate .
I’ll leave it to my old sparring partner Doug Evans for the last word on that .
Doug and I don’t see eye to eye on much but he earns my respect for standing proud as a Green , not fudging and trying to be closet or “secret Greens”
From Doug

“The Greens’ probably somewhat larger ‘right leaning’ protest vote comprises people whose basic political position is somewhere to the right of Greens policy but who have voted for the Greens because of individual policies. Figures produced by ABC election analyst Anthony Green support this view. They reveal that between 20% and 25% of Greens votes have always allocated second preference to the Liberal Party. These voters might be (for example) conservative gay people who would like to be able to marry their partner or, in particular, ‘small-l-Liberals’ who can’t abide the cruel inhumane asylum seeker policies of their preferred party.”
Douglas Evans 18 September 2013, 1:07pm
jantoniusJune 28, 2016 at 12:47 pm

Even I could see what Athena meant.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 12:47 pm

“Even you can’t believe that the Greens could win 76 seats in the HoR this election.”

Neither will the ALP, Kaye. The ALP probably won’t even come second in Sturt. A vote for the ALP in Sturt is wasted if one wants to use it to get rid of the Liberal Party. I’m tired of this nonsense that the only way to stop the Coalition is to vote ALP. You say that the politicians and media should be honest with us and then you promote this lie. If the ALP was worth voting for you wouldn’t need to continually tell us this. You need to accept that many people have had enough of the major two parties and don’t want them any more. It defeats the purpose of having an election if we’re only going to use it to vote for the second worst party. We’re approaching an era where it be increasingly unlikely that any party will be able to rule in its own right, without some form of alliance. There’s nothing wrong with that. If you’re in favour of a democracy then stop telling everyone that their only hope is to vote ALP – and that goes for everyone else who wants a democracy but is pushing everyone to vote ALP.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 12:48 pm

cornlegend,

that’s why I specify #1 Greens and #2 Labor.

That’s how the Greens htv’s are shown for McMillan. If any Greens htv’s preference the Libs over Labor, then yes I agree, cornlegend, the voters would need to override that situation and ensure the 2nd preference goes to Labor NOT the filthy Libs.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 12:57 pm

“you promote this lie”

Saying that the next government will either be Coalition or Labor is NOT a lie.

“accept that many people have had enough of the major two parties”

I have never disputed this and personally, I would like to see parties abolished and finite terms for politicians.

“We’re approaching an era where it be increasingly unlikely that any party will be able to rule in its own right, without some form of alliance.”

I sincerely hope so. We aren’t there yet.

“stop telling everyone that their only hope is to vote ALP”

What I have said is that if Labor do not win 76 seats in the HoR we will have a Coalition government for another three years.

As I tried to point out, my opinion is that the next election is the time to vote for more variety because I believe that we would have a much greater chance of negotiation and collaboration with an incumbent minority Labor government than with the Coalition.
jantoniusJune 28, 2016 at 12:57 pm

Then they would not be voting Labor anyway, would they cornlegend?
It’s not really a point against the Greens – but a bit of a small point for them; as it diminishes Lib first pref. votes.
It is certainly no point against the whole raft of Greens policies.
Some jerks vote Labor also.
jimJune 28, 2016 at 1:15 pm

Labor policy;…Offering certainty for jobs and investors in our renewable energy industry, where Australia should be seizing our natural and competitive advantages. What the Liberal party has done to renewable energy IMO is akin to treason,……………more….https://theconversation.com/factcheck-did-carbon-emissions-fall-faster-before-the-carbon-price-36504……

So labor had a very good emission reduction scheme but the Liberals destroyed it with the full backing of their donors the Big mining companies, pushed along by the media. put LNP Last.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 1:16 pm

There’s a little bit of jerk in all of us. If we were less tribal and more tolerant and open to learning we would all be better off. I am as guilty as anyone of pushing my POV but I am also always aiming to improve at being a listener. If I am going to complain about something then I like to at least have some realistic ideas on how to fix it.
Neil of SydneyJune 28, 2016 at 1:21 pm

The fact that Labor got us the AAA was mentioned this morning on Sky

And that is one reason the next election is a good one to lose. We will certainly lose our AAA rating soon because neither party wants to cut spending and run surplus budgets.

That comment about the AAA is rubbish by the way. We got our AAA back in Feb 2003 when Costello reduced govt debt from 18% of GDP to 5%. To give Labor credit for something they could never do ie reduce debt is shameless.

For the first time in my life i will not be putting the Libs No 1 because my Liberal local member voted for Turnbull. I will put this person No 2 so will eventually get my vote. In the Senate i will vote for various Conservative candidates. I will put Nats in front of Libs however i do not know if that is possible and put ALP/Greens near the bottom
jantoniusJune 28, 2016 at 1:23 pm

Then there’s the Johnny-one-notes.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 1:32 pm

S&P’s foreign long-term rating for Australia has been AAA since February 2003. Moody’s has rated Australia AAA since October 2002. Fitch was the last to upgrade Australia’s rating to AAA in November 2011.

Whitlam had AAA rating from two of the agencies as well in 1975 just before Fraser blocked supply. The AAA rating from both Moody’s and Standard and Poor’s continued until September 1986 when Moody’s downgraded its rating to AA1. Standard and Poor’s downgraded its rating to AA+ in December 1986. Moody’s further downgraded its rating to AA2 in August 1989. In October 1989, Standard and Poor’s downgraded its rating to AA.

The credit ratings by these two agencies remained at these levels until May 1999 when Standard and Poor’s upgraded Australia’s rating to AA+. Moody’s restored Australia to an AAA rating on 21 October 2002.

In February 2003, Standard and Poor’s also restored Australia to an AAA rating.

However, it wasn’t until 2011 when Fitch upgraded its rating to AAA that all three agencies were in agreement
Neil of SydneyJune 28, 2016 at 1:51 pm

S&P’s foreign long-term rating for Australia has been AAA since February 2003. Moody’s has rated Australia AAA since October 2002. Fitch was the last to upgrade Australia’s rating to AAA in November 2011.

Yep and you get a AAA when the two major agencies give you AAA at the same time. That happened in Feb 2003. From that point we were regard as AAA and able to pay the lowest interest rate on borrowed money.

Why did Fitch wait untill 2011 to give us AAA? Why did they not do it in 2003 when the 2 majors did. Why did they not do it in 2007 when debt was zero? Who knows. I suspect they just forgot about us because we are an insignificant country and Fitch is an insignificant ratings agency. Fitch did not even exist when were lost our AAA under Hawke.

But boy, havn’t you lefties gone to town about getting that third AAA.

Anyway what is the point? Our debt is now back at 18% of GDP where it was in 1996. All that effort getting our AAA back all wasted.

We will lose it after the next election. I hope you believers in MMT are right that debt does not matter. We are about to find out.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 2:33 pm

Government spending isn’t a problem provided you choose the right things to spend it on. Spending $20 billion a year on defence materiel on top of an annual defence budget that is rapidly approaching $50 billion a year is a ridiculous waste of money that will bring no return. A proper NBN on the other hand, or affordable childcare, or investing in education at all levels would all bring a far greater return than buying squadrons of jet fighters.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 2:54 pm

If the ALP members are too pigheaded to accept that
a) Many people have had enough of the them, and
b) They are unlikely to win with a clear majority and govern on their own,
then that’s their problem. It’s not up to the electorate to save them from themselves. Until now the people voting for someone other than the major two parties have not been in significant enough numbers to make the ALP sit up and take notice. If the result of this election (votes to NXT) doesn’t give them a jolt then nothing will. The Liberal Party is not under any illusion that it will get the numbers to govern on its own.
At every election the time to go for more variety is always the next election. The next election is like tomorrow. It never comes.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 3:05 pm

Athena you seem to be completely avoiding the point about incumbency. Even if the Coalition form a minority government, they will be the ones writing the budget and the best that variety will offer is for the Senate to continue to block them. That isn’t progress. We need Labor to be the incumbent forming a minority government the next time – they are much more likely to negotiate amendments. They can’t form a minority government this time because none of the Independents will agree so the Coalition would remain.
FreethinkerJune 28, 2016 at 3:53 pm

today press conference with Scott Morison
Q: Can I follow up on the earlier question about dunny blocks, at the end of the campaign a lot of [the savings] turns out to be funded by a welfare crackdown. What is your message to disadvantaged Australians who might end up losing welfare benefits in order to fund projects in marginal seats?

Scott Morrison:

I think the way you have characterised it is very untrue. What we are doing in the welfare system is strengthening it. Noone’s payments are being reduced. No-one’s support is being changed. What we are doing is ensuring that those who need that support will get that support.

Which come to my memory, quote from Malcolm Turnbull

What political parties will say they will support and oppose, one time is not necessarily, ultimately what they will do.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 4:05 pm

“Athena you seem to be completely avoiding the point about incumbency.”

As in, the Liberal Party will remain in government if the ALP cannot form a government with the other members?

Then it’s up to the ALP to lift its game. Be a party worth voting for.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 5:31 pm

So you would prefer to teach them a lesson by keeping a Coalition government for another three years?
Neil of SydneyJune 28, 2016 at 5:41 pm

Government spending isn’t a problem provided you choose the right things to spend it on. Spending $20 billion a year on defence materiel on top of an annual defence budget that is rapidly approaching $50 billion a year is a ridiculous waste of money that will bring no return. A proper NBN on the other hand, or affordable childcare, or investing in education at all levels would all bring a far greater return than buying squadrons of jet fighters.

And i get accused of being repetitive. Trouble is govts do not spend money wisely i guess because it is not their money. That is why private enterprise does so many things better. The NBN would be built faster if Telstra was building it. By the way the NBN is off budget meaning the expenses do not effect the budget deficit. But one day i suspect it will be included in the budget.

I think this coming election is a good one to lose. WE will lose our AAA soon and the mud will stick to whoever is in power.

If Labor wins they can leave the NBN as it is and do the rest FTTP. And then we can sit back and have a laugh at the cost and how slow it takes to get connected
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 5:42 pm

It’s not a matter of being vindictive, Kaye. What’s the point of having a democratic election if I’m not allowed to vote for the party that best represents my views? Why should I elect a bunch of self-serving, corrupted twunts to keep out another bunch of self-serving, corrupted twunts? No wonder we have so many disengaged citizens who don’t vote. I have no doubt that in 20 years time you’ll still be disillusioned with the ALP, still voting for them and still saying that the time to tell them what we actually want is at the next election.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 5:51 pm

“That is why private enterprise does so many things better. The NBN would be built faster if Telstra was building it. ”

Doesn’t private enterprise do that better? Wouldn’t private enterprise be trying to build the NBN as fast as possible because time is money? I have a friend who worked for NBN Co for a while. He’s a former Telstra tech. He said NBN Co were taking shortcuts all over the place and some of his co-workers were very rough with their standard of work. Perhaps the shortcuts are false economy. It wouldn’t be the first time that we’ve observed that from private contractors.
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 6:08 pm

Athena, you seem to be under the misapprehension that I am a Labor supporter.
wamJune 28, 2016 at 6:09 pm

just heard son of a small car say that for 3 years the have overpaid welfare recipients billions but now 4 days from the election they are going to save those billions. funny that they have overpaid the many multinationals multi-billions but no worries there.
Think scott was on the scotch again and telling porkies??
NBN is not copper NDIS is not negotiable MEDICARE is not for sale. the rabbott confessed he lied and proved himself a liar after winning. turnball has proved himself a liar. will he still win???
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 6:22 pm

“Athena, you seem to be under the misapprehension that I am a Labor supporter.”

Not at all, Kaye. You’ve said you align more with Greens policies. Well if you and everyone else who prefers Greens policies actually voted for them, then perhaps the ALP would get the message that we don’t like many of their policies. Reinforcement of a behaviour increases the likelihood of that behaviour being repeated. It’s included in Psychology 101 and I know it is taught to teachers as well. If you keep voting for what you don’t actually want then you’re telling the ALP that you approve of their actions.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 6:41 pm

No disrespect, Kaye, but Athena speaks the truth.
jimJune 28, 2016 at 6:44 pm

It’s not a plan but don’t forget when it comes to the runners in this election while Labor called for a RC to look into institutional responses to scum Pedo’s the Liberal party tries to protect the scum pedos giving sealed PM toni rabbit. references to the scum.
jimJune 28, 2016 at 6:53 pm

Who’s side are you on…. who’s side are you on …….err..em…. Liberal party ……who’s side are you on. ?
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 7:12 pm

This just came through my Facebook feed from a group called Progressive Politics & Policy.

If you plan to vote 1. Labor, 2. Greens, because you have progressive values, and think your anti-LNP vote must go to Labor because only Labor can win; then why not consider voting 1. Greens, 2. Labor since your vote will pass to Labor with full value if the Greens’ candidate is not elected. This will make a much bigger difference in influencing Labor’s policies to be more progressive, than simply reinforcing support for their entire policy platform including right-wing Neoliberal policies. (If the Greens candidate is elected you know they will be willing to work with Labor in exchange for some ‘progressive influence’ on policy. So that’s a win-win!)
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 7:30 pm

That group called Progressive Politics & Policy are people after my own heart. Great minds think alike! 🙂
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 8:06 pm

Helen Razer Is Wrong: Why Leftists Should Vote For The Greens
nurses1968June 28, 2016 at 8:17 pm

Arhena I am about to become a member of the ALP and I query this statement “This will make a much bigger difference in influencing Labor’s policies to be more progressive,” How will somebody voting for a Green who doesn’t get elected result in that?
“If the Greens candidate is elected you know they will be willing to work with Labor” how do you know?
Labor have made it clear there will be no deals and somehow you seem to have some strange idea the Greens have a right to impose their wish on ALP policy.Let them stand on their own 2 feet.
You vote for the Greens that is your right, even though last week you were a Xenophon fan.
The Greens won’t influence Labor and they will not be in any power sharing deals with Labor as Labor has made that very clear.
I wish you luck in voting Green and if you happen to get one or two candidates elected I hope that 1.5% of the H of R can hold Turnbull accountable.
And finally why would Labor listen to an avowed enemy of the party as you are? You have made it patently clear you would never vote for them.
I’m quite pleased the ALP leaders made it quite clear before the election there would be no deals.That way people can choose who they vote for with a clear understanding and have no fear that outside influences would play a role in formation of Government if the Labor Party happen to win, even though that seems very unlikely
Kaye LeeJune 28, 2016 at 8:41 pm

I don’t think allowing the Coalition another three years in office is a choice I could possibly make.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 8:53 pm

“How will somebody voting for a Green who doesn’t get elected result in that?”

Reinforcement of a behaviour increases the likelihood of that behaviour being repeated. Therefore a first preference vote for the ALP tells them that you approve of their policies. If they’re only getting your vote as a second preference it is giving them the message that you’re not entirely happy with them and at the same time not giving the vote to the Liberal Party.

“If the Greens candidate is elected you know they will be willing to work with Labor” how do you know?
Labor have made it clear there will be no deals and somehow you seem to have some strange idea the Greens have a right to impose their wish on ALP policy.Let them stand on their own 2 feet.”

The Greens have said they are willing to work with the ALP. In the event of a hung parliament, if the ALP does not wish to work with the Greens that is their choice. They can remain in opposition for another three years instead. If you think that the ALP will pass up the opportunity to govern rather than deal with the Greens then I have some land in Antarctica that I’d like to sell to you.

“You vote for the Greens that is your right, even though last week you were a Xenophon fan.”

I posted a quote from a Facebook page for those people who prefer the Greens policies but are concerned that if they don’t vote ALP then the Liberals will get back in. There are certainly people here who meet that criteria. If that doesn’t apply to you then put your big girl panties on and ignore it.

“The Greens won’t influence Labor”

It’s not about the Greens influencing Labor. It’s about the voters influencing Labor.

“And finally why would Labor listen to an avowed enemy of the party as you are? ”

If enough people don’t vote for them as a first preference they will have to listen if they want to govern. They are bleeding votes to the Greens and NXT.

What you should be asking is why does anyone think that the ALP will listen when people keep voting for them even though they don’t like some or many of their policies? I’ve asked numerous times now and none of the people who are telling me I should be voting ALP to keep the Libs out can actually give me any good reasons why I should be voting for something I don’t actually want.

“I’m quite pleased the ALP leaders made it quite clear before the election there would be no deals.That way people can choose who they vote for with a clear understanding and have no fear that outside influences would play a role in formation of Government if the Labor Party happen to win, even though that seems very unlikely.”

Any party that does not have control of both houses does deals to get their bills passed through the Senate, including your precious ALP. If you think that they don’t then prepare to be disappointed.
nurses1968June 28, 2016 at 8:53 pm

The Daily Telegraph headlines shows quite clearly who the Coalition will target
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmBvuxlWgAUaxGC.jpg:large
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 9:05 pm

The Coalition has been targeting social security recipients for years. The only people who don’t seem to know that are the social security recipients who vote for them.
Matters NotJune 28, 2016 at 9:07 pm

I just shake my head at some of the nonsense sprouted above. According to one self acclaimed ‘insider’ (also above), the ALP recommended that the second preference ought to be allocated to the Greens in WA. And that happened. A wise decision. And also a ‘deal’.

But they still run around saying ‘there will be no deals’.

Absolutely no understanding as to how ‘politics’ works. As Prince Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck, Duke of Lauenburg, noted all those years ago. Politics is the art of the possible.

Without Green preferences, there are so many ALP members and candidates who would be looking for new avenues of employment post July 2. They know it, but many are still in denial. Not game to admit that reality.
nurses1968June 28, 2016 at 9:14 pm

Athena I don’t know where you got the idea I was somehow trying to force you to vote Labor as I wouldn’t and can’t anyway
What I did say was if you chose to vote for Greens or Xenophon fine but live with it don’t blame others and their parties for the parties you choose failing to live up to voter expectations hence their miserable vote after so many years.
I want the Coalition gone. For 20+ years I worked in the Health system where Liberals would strip it down then Labor patch it up only to have it go again like a merry go round.I have quit that now and changed career paths and nothing would help me celebrate my new career more than a change of government

“Without Green preferences, ” without ALP preferences would there be ANY Greens?
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 9:15 pm

I agree with Cornlegend’s earlier comment

“I’m at the stage, as are quite a few on the AIMN of not being too concerned about the outcome from a personal perspective
The ‘Greater Good” will have to be fought by those dependant on it.”

There are so many people who do not pay any attention to politics except during an election campaign, and they cannot critically evaluate any of the spin that is fed to us. If people are going to keep voting for the LNP against their best interests, then they will just have to do something to help themselves for a change. I’ll be interested to see how many farmers will still vote for the Libs or the Nats even though both have been screwing them.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 9:28 pm

I didn’t bother to read nurses or bighead. I’m encouraged by MN that Labor and Greens are natural allies which paves the way for an identifiable Alliance to take to the People for their support.

I was on the barricades today and it works.
Matters NotJune 28, 2016 at 9:35 pm

nurses1968

without ALP preferences would there be ANY Greens?

If your ‘yardstick’ is the election of Green MPs, the answer is probably no. But if you are referring to the existence of The Greens as a political organisation, then the answer is a resounding ‘yes’.

And the ALP knows, that without The Greens and the way they allocate preferences, many, many current and ‘hopeful’ members would be confined to the political scrapheap.

But that ‘understanding’ relies on the ability to ‘count’.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 9:39 pm

“Athena I don’t know where you got the idea I was somehow trying to force you to vote Labor as I wouldn’t and can’t anyway”

Several weeks ago you told me that if I don’t vote ALP then it will be my fault if the LNP wins.

If the LNP wins, it will be the fault of everyone who voted for them.

“What I did say was if you chose to vote for Greens or Xenophon fine but live with it don’t blame others and their parties for the parties you choose failing to live up to voter expectations hence their miserable vote after so many years.”

I have never blamed anyone else for the Greens or Xenophon failing to live up to voter expectations. The thought never even crossed my mind.

What I’ve said is that it makes no sense for people to vote for something they don’t want. What is the point of having a democratic election where people are going to disregard the party with the policies they agree with and vote instead for the party whose policies they don’t agree with? That’s just freaking insane.

“I want the Coalition gone. For 20+ years I worked in the Health system where Liberals would strip it down then Labor patch it up only to have it go again like a merry go round.”

I’ve been working in the public health system for 29 years. With the exception of Medicare, the ALP is no better. They’ve got health system reform in SA at the moment that they call Transforming Health. Many of us working there know it as Trashing Health. What we’ve been seeing for several years now is a dismantling of the health system with the intention to privatise it and in the last 3 years that has escalated more rapidly. Keeping Medicare won’t make any difference to that. Actually Medicare will be cheaper to run because there will be less services in public hospitals.

“without ALP preferences would there be ANY Greens?”

Who do you think Greens voters voted for before the Greens? A lot of them are former ALP voters.
Neil of SydneyJune 28, 2016 at 9:47 pm

I don’t think allowing the Coalition another three years in office is a choice I could possibly make.

Good. What are you going to do when the boats start coming again? ALP locked up 8,469 children last time. What will ALP do for an encore?

Actually for the first time in my life i am not voting Libs No1. The person in my electorate was one of the 53 traitors who installed Turnbull. Turnbull is smart but he loves himself more than Australia. With him you basically get Labor anyway.

Better for Australia if Labor wins, we will lose our AAA, deficits will continue to get worse and then perhaps Australia will wake up to how bad the ALP is.
Michael TaylorJune 28, 2016 at 9:51 pm

“ALP locked up 8,469 children . . .”

And you’ve mentioned that 8,469 times.

Yawn.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 9:53 pm

Yes Athena,

Labor talks big but thinks small. Hence Gonski, as a neoliberalist answer to a worse neoliberalist Education system that everybody sends their kids into.

Hold firm against the Labor backlash to your brave defiance that “near enough is NOT good enough’.

I want Billy Boy to win on Saturdee ONLY if he acknowledges these shortcomings and the Greens and Xenophon’s input into Labor’s success.

If that can’t happen, they’re a pack of morons worse than the LNP.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 9:55 pm

neil of sydney,

despite what you try to argue, your views are expunged by higher intellects. Go home and enjoy your security. Don’t try to influence anyone here.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 9:56 pm

“I’m encouraged by MN that Labor and Greens are natural allies which paves the way for an identifiable Alliance to take to the People for their support.”

JMS, it will come eventually. NXT is polling over 20% in SA in its first election. The Libs and ALP are shitting themselves. Pyne has sent 5 letters to me in this election campaign so far. The latest is telling me that Sturt is one of just 14 seats that could deliver Bill Shorten as PM under a hung parliament (sources Newspoll, Ipsos, ReachTEL). See, even the Liberals don’t believe the ALP when they say there will be no alliance! One and a half weeks ago Murdoch was telling us that Pyne had Sturt safely in the bag. This suggests that things have changed somewhat. They have a few other seats in SA that are under threat by NXT too.

The times they are a changing. The ALP will soon find itself forced to make alliances or go the way of the Democrats. It’s under attack from Murdoch in the MSM and under attack from progressives on social media.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 10:07 pm

I’ve also noticed Malcolm Muck refer to the Labor/Greens Alliance in a desperate attempt to downgrade its effect. Sadly for Malcolm Muck, it makes him look more desperate.

Stupid Labor does not see its strength with the Greens.
Matters NotJune 28, 2016 at 10:07 pm

soon find itself forced to make alliances

Mainstream political parties are already characterised by ‘alliances’, ‘factions’, ‘cliques’ or whatever pejorative descriptor one chooses to give. While it’s always been so, the fault lines are now ‘stark’.

No ‘compromises’ then no ‘future’. The ‘hard heads’ know that but they don’t want to tell the ‘foot soldiers’.

Keep them in the dark and feed them bullshit. Works a treat.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 10:11 pm

The Libs are also telling everyone that Xenophon wants to take their penalty rates – as if the Libs don’t!

Xenophon has changed his mind on penalty rates when he realised how it would adversely affect the workers. The official position of NXT is the same as the ALP – they will go with the Fair Work Commission.
AthenaJune 28, 2016 at 10:13 pm

“Mainstream political parties are already characterised by ‘alliances’, ‘factions’, ‘cliques’ or whatever pejorative descriptor one chooses to give. While it’s always been so, the fault lines are now ‘stark’.”

Yes, however I meant with other parties in order to govern, as the Libs do with the Nats.
Matters NotJune 28, 2016 at 10:18 pm

as the Libs do with the Nats.

Here in QLD, the distinction is no longer. At least, in regard to their public face. Truth is, the Libs hate the Nats and that sentiment is returned in spades. There for all to see.
Jennifer Meyer-SmithJune 28, 2016 at 10:47 pm

So, in other words, Labor can relax and confess to an abiding mutually beneficial agreement with the Greens that will be seen by the voters as a wholesome Alliance which far exceeds the reality of the Lib/Nats hateful relationship.
Matters NotJune 28, 2016 at 11:02 pm

ALP locked up 8,469 children

Indeed they did. Much to their everlasting shame.

Nevertheless, people should understand that these children just woke up one morning and decided to go an ‘adventure’ of sorts. Leave their beds, toys, houses, markets, friends and relatives (won’t mention culture or religion) and take a trip to Australia on a ‘whim’. And quite rightly we decided that these children ought to be taught a few facts of life re whimsical decision making. So we set about ‘punishing’ them in the most cruel ways we could think of.

As to who caused these children to make such a ‘fanciful’ decision. Well that’s something we don’t want to talk about.

We don’t want to talk about who decided to destroy the ‘beds’, the ‘toys’, the ‘houses’, the ‘friends and relatives’ and so on. And while we don’t want to talk about what we did, we most certainly won’t even consider why we engaged in those criminal acts. Instead we want to apportion blame on the basis of who ‘locked up’ more or less children.

Maybe we have the ‘metrics’ wrong?
Möbius EckoJune 29, 2016 at 7:13 am

“ALP locked up 8,469 children . . .”

Yes NoS and we’ve condemned it multiple times, which you deliberately ignore. On the other hand you never condemn the Liberal party, indeed you often defend their failings and malfeasances. It’s that unconcealed hypocrisy that renders most of what you so oft repeat meaningless and nothing more than wasteful blog falderol.

So come on Neil how about for once instead of constantly attacking Labor with the same long repeated posts you address the considerable Liberal Party failings, especially Howard’s, who’s mostly the reason we’re in the current mess, especially that of the boat people where he attacked them in their homeland and then again when they fled that attack.
KronomexJune 29, 2016 at 8:53 am

I just had a weird image pop up at the mention of war toys; Rasputin Abbott as defence minister dressed in his budgie smugglers frolicking in Sydney Harbour with the new submarines tickling them under their chins (I know subs don’t have chins but the image is just too good to ignore) and feeding them fish. Oh, what a happy minister he will be.
Of course the LNP are good grscpi j5ewf609-e5w6p 9uthvsji Gah, one of the cats is helping me type. Of course the LNP are good economic managers. All their finance ministers can use a calculator, with big buttons, after they’ve run out of fingers and toes to count on. They tried to teach Cigar Joe how to use an abacus but it was just too complicated for him.
On a side note; can you imagine the fun and games if we wind up with a hung (we can dream) parliament?