Regular readers will know the saga I have been dealing with as a result of living in a marginal seat which had FttN thrust upon us very early in the Coalition’s tenure.
In March 2016, a porting mistake by our telco at work saw us lose all telecommunications. Due to there being a cease sales order in our area (meaning it was NBN ready so any new connections must be to the NBN), it was impossible for the fault to be rectified so we signed up for the NBN but it took them two months to connect it during which time we were without EFTPOS, fax and security causing us significant financial loss. After literally hundreds of hours on the phone to the Ombudsman, Telstra eventually offered us a small compensation which I accepted – sometimes you have to cut your losses and move on.
At home, we decided to sign up for the NBN early so we didn’t go through the same problems, and we were connected via FttN in June 2016 with a plan that offered 100/40 Mbps.
We have never achieved speeds approaching what we are paying for and experienced daily dropouts which also take out the phone landline. As we live in a mobile blackspot, this leaves us totally incommunicado.
Once again, Telstra has offered a very small amount of compensation, admitting that it cannot deliver the speeds we have been paying for but still completely misrepresenting the possible attainable speeds.
“you are paying for speeds of up to 100 Mbps download and 40 Mbps upload, when in fact, the fastest speeds you can actually receive are 94.582 Mbps download and 33.628 Mbps upload.”
A speed test carried out at 1:30pm today showed 19.7/15.3 Mbps.
Once again, after many hours on the phone, Telstra have finally admitted that the REAL speed we can achieve is, at best, 35/16 Mbps.
“Why the discrepancy?” I asked.
“Co-existence” they eventually, after many phone calls, replied.
“What’s that?”
“It means your speeds are slower.”
“I know that. I am asking why.”
The man in India seemed unable or unwilling to explain so I went to online forums to find out.
“Co-existence is the interference of different types of DSL technology applied on the same copper cable. It will be solved when all ADSL connections have transferred over to NBN which should be no later than 18 months after NBN was first available in the area.”
In my next phone call with the man in India, I pointed out that it was over 18 months since we signed up so why was this still an issue. In his most apologetic way, he told me that NBN said the problem will not be fixed this year (2018).
So my assumption is, and don’t quote me because getting truthful information from this crowd is impossible, that they have abandoned deadlines for people to sign up so those of us who did will face slow unreliable services for the foreseeable future.
In April last year, the ACCC issued a press release.
“The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has welcomed the Federal Government’s announcement today that it will fund a new broadband performance monitoring program to provide Australian consumers with accurate and independent information about broadband speeds.
After appointing a qualified testing provider, the ACCC will commence the program in May 2017, and will provide comparative information for consumers during the second half of the year.”
Great idea except they still haven’t started.
On November 30 last year, the SMH reported that “the ACCC had not yet appointed a broadband monitoring program provider, nor had it commenced the program or released comparative provider information for consumers.”
A visit to the ACCC website shows them asking for volunteer households to join the monitoring program, which will cost $7 million, with applications closing on 31 January 2018.
Meanwhile, a monthly ranking by the Speedtest Global Index placed Australia at number 55 for fixed broadband speeds in the world for December 2017, with an average download speed of 25.88 Megabits per second (Mbps).
In first place was Singapore with a lightning-quick download speed of 161.21 Mbps. The global average was 40.71 Mbps.
I have now formed the opinion that the government really don’t want the proof of what an absolute failure they have made of what could and should have been a crucial nation-building enterprise.
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We should not be surprised – the moment TA became PM and set about dismantling anything that had been started by the Gillard government, our goose was cooked.
Kaye, this mob don’t make mistakes, therefore there is no reason for them to get data, as the data would only prove their mistakes and lies, which of course they never do. Oh this circular argument can go on forever. Just remember the Ruddock hearings into Religious freedoms that are behind closed doors and with submissions that will never be released, starting today. They already now the result so why publicise it.
More examples are available, including the NSW Liberal Gov’t eg: Windsor Bridge replacement program, a new bridge higher but with no increased traffic flows.
My area has recently been pronounced NBN ready. At the xmas street party it was discussed by neighbours. Very few have taken it up, for much the same reasons we haven’t. It ultimately boils down to waiting … waiting for as long as possible … for something to happen that will make it a subscription to a worthwhile service, not voluntarily signing up to participate in a criminal fraud.
This mixed mode Coalition NBN is a farce. There was a lot of activity in our street 6 months ago clearing blockages in the phone line conduits and actually pulling fibre through those conduits right past our door so they could connect the next node in the chain. We were then told the FTTN NBN would be turned on on the 22nd December. That prompted a great rush of ISPs tripping over themselves to have us sign a 24 month contract so that we could have “superfast broadband” for Christmas. But I kept noting that there were still no electronics in the node cabinet down the street and the NBN subcontractors had disappeared. A check of the NBN rollout site in early December then revealed that we could expect “progressive connection” from July 2018 – no reference or explanation to the previous notice of 22nd December 2017. What a bloody shambles this mob has created. Throw them out!
The “co-existence” phenomenon is correct but is usually referred to as “mid-point injection”.
Imagine a street cable of say 300 pairs of wires all pulsing away at the frequency of ADSL. Now insert one pair at the different NBN frequency and it is typically subjected to cross-talk interference, which in turn may mean the need to constantly re-transmit corrupted data, hence slowing down the effective data rate.
As the numbers of NBN services overtake ADSL on that cable, the interference is reduced and effective speed is increased for all NBN users. I think the 18 month window for full migration is more hoped-for than planned in most areas.
It’s not rocket surgery but would have been avoided if they went for the full fibre option, not to mention the chaotic implementation of migrating existing connections on the same copper wires.
One tragedy is that for those NBN FTTN users who are currently satisfied with their service, it’s probably as good as it will ever get.
There’s always the option of emigrating to Kazakhstan for a higher speed.
On a National level it’s yet another nation-building opportunity wasted and sacrificed on the altar of short-term political opportunism.
Been down all these tracks during 2017, talking to MP’s, attending public meetings concerning NBN issues, paying for speeds we do not get, no landline phone, frequent drop-outs etc. A near full page story in the local newspaper titled Houston we have an NBN problem (I was unable to take part in a live broadcast from my southern optical observatory to NASA JPL in the USA, too many drop outs and too slow to upload video in real time. The following day, three NBN techs worked at our premises over three days to at least repair the faults in the old existing cables. We are connected via our old in ground copper cable to a micronode (not even a proper full scale cabinet) way down the road. We cannot have fibre even if we offered to pay in excess of $60,000. Our co-existence phase is supposed to end in May-what then? this fibre-copper wires mix will never work as Turnbull promised. His mis-management of a once in a lifetime major infrastructure roll-out Australia wide, has cost this country billions of dollars in lost productivity from all the businesses who rely on a decent reliable Internet connection. Our previous ADSL 2 system was far superior and we still had a phone line even when we lost the Internet. Vote accordingly at the next federal election.
I am SO not looking forward to being forced onto the NBN. A total failure of Turnbull, who has the gall a year or so ago to list it as one of his ACHIEVEMENTS! Fixing Labors mistake/mess etc. I remember his presser speech September 2015 on vanquishing Abbott, when he promised to treat Australians as intelligent. That was his 1st Prime Ministerial lie. So many more have followed. Just this week, we find he lied endlessly about Labors negative policy, entirely against the advice of the Treasury report. Then attempting to “delay” the announcement of their new GST allocations to States (which theyve realised the Treasurer has the power to change, after all!) until AFTER the South Australian elections in March. SA stands to lose well over $500 million alone. All states allocation will be cut, with WA receiving that money – to shore up their prospects in WA state elections next time. Labor policy is to address the WA financial problems with a $1.6 billion grant for infrastructure, and leaving the allocation of GST the same. Sorry, got carried away here but it all points to the complete disaster this government is. Not only inept, incompetent, but dishonest and deceitful in the extreme. AND I believe the ABC has discontinued Anthony Green’s blog! And archived his previous ones! Full commiserations to Kaye and all in the grip of Turnbulls NBN.
Clayton,
I do understand that co-existence is a real thing but I understood that the period of interference would be finite. Apparently it has been put off to the never never.
As for the list of check things, I have no idea how to do any of that and if that is required for the product to work then the provider should send out an installer.
I have no way of knowing if Telstra have purchased sufficient bandwidth.
I live in Croydon North, Victoria, where the programmed date for the arrival of the NBN is late 2019. Currently we are on cable internet and receiving on average 35mbps. This is fine for us and I am dreading the NBN unless Labor are voted into office and fix this mess by reverting to FttH.
So, Standard Installation (which is free from NBNCo) should include testing, if they do a test and it comes back as stable then its out of their hands.
For all the copper related stuff, you need to get a communications electrician to check. Telstra won’t touch it because they aren’t responsible for that type of work. Telstra and NBNCo are only responsible to the boundary Point of the network on your home. (Usually a small grey box on the outside of your home). In regards to the modem router, i assume you have the Telstra Modem Router, to which you can get support from them to make those checks. If you think you are confident to do it yourself, make sure your device is connected to the modem router and pop into chrome and just type 10.1.1.1 or 192.168.0.1 or 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.20.1 this will allow you to access the backend of the modem router and usually if there is a firmware update there will be a warning on the home screen as you login. Login usually for telstra devices is either username: admin password: admin or username: admin password: password.
To your last point, Telstra has publicly said they don’t have enough bandwidth.
Here’s the explanation provided by Anne Hurley, the immediate past chair of Internet Australia and a former CEO of the Communications Alliance.
Slow learners. And they are not alone.
Hmmm my NBN speeds are 15.6/4.9. And I’m told that’s the best I’ll ever achieve.
I have been designated “Status 10” so no new NBN connections are available in the area for an unknown reason for an unknown period of time.
This ruling rabble is the most incompetent and corrupt cabal to ever have gained power…. their IPA policy framework is destroying what was once a fine country.
Clayton,
I was told that the connection was “unstable”. They said they would send a technician out but that he would not have to come to our premises. Presumably he was to work on the node. They told me that fixing the unstable connection would result in lower speeds. Instead of the internet dropping out several times every day (and taking my phone with it which REALLY pisses me off) it now drops out a few times a week which is, I suppose, an improvement.
I just want them to tell me the truth. How can I decide what plan to buy if they continue lying? And why the hell continue to lie when they send an email to supposedly fess up? Am I supposed to say thanks, I’ll take a few dollars and forget we have a problem?
Speed test done at 4:44 pm…. 16.8 download which is a far cry from the 94.5 they said in the email they sent me.
In Hobart, we were one of the lucky ones that had FTTP rolled out early through our suburb. Even at the lowest and cheapest plan, we can stream 2 videos simultaneously any time of the day or night. We chucked the TV because it is not useful any more. The only downside is that I work from home and often have to connect to the office in Sydney for meetings. Unfortunately, the Sydney office connection is so slow, I still can’t do skype video with them and have to instead conduct the meetings through text messages or hold them at absurd hours when the traffic is low with audio on and video off.
Sadly, Turnbull’s sabotage of the NBN is costing everyone in Australia business opportunities whether they have FTTP or not until a future government start again with the original plan for Everyone to have FTTP.
Speed test at 4.07 PM Brisbane time. Optus cable to the house. Download 99.8. Up load 1.4.
Cost $63.21 last month including local calls. Not on the NBN yet. Something to look forward to – NOT
Is “co-existence” code for it should have all been FTTP, but it’s a stuff-up because of so many different methods of delivery
.
Apart from the inherent problems and limitations of FTTN, why do people default to choosing Telstra as their NBN provider? (A hopeless provider that has a record of screwing its customers over).
I have been with iiNet for over a decade. Our small town only had ADSL1 with a speed of 5Mbps. On the NBN I now get about 28 Mbps down and 6 Mbps up. There have been a few short dropouts but otherwise its been a good step up. Mind you FTTP should and probably will end up being retrofitted. FTTP would have had a slower rollout but without the level of problems and dissatisfaction.
There is a real opportunity for Labor if they promise to “fix Turnbull’s fraudband.
There is an excellent saying, “Do it once-do it right”, so perhaps staying with the original plan ‘may’ have taken a little longer, when done it would be working as intended. Now, it is not even being rolled out, due to so many technical problems they have to find answers to before they can continue-a real dogs breakfast.
Kaye, demand all your money back from Telstra and shift to another provider.
I’m in Cairns and count myself lucky that Warren E (local Fed MP) lived up the road, so we got fibre to the house. The roll out has made many installers (the owners of the businesses) millionaires, while they paid $25 ph casual to me and others to haul cable in the heat up here, while also hiring 457s for the technical stuff (without advertising)… familiar story.
Distrustful of the big companies, we got onto Exetel, only to sack them months later when we didn’t get the speeds… Seems most of them buy bandwidth from Telstra or Optus, but they don’t buy enough, or enough is not there to service all the people who want bandwidth at peak times.
Now with Aussie Broadband, who has build their own fibre network across Australia and we are finally okay with things. I know it’s an I’m alright Jack story, but ask your ISP how they can guarantee the speeds at peak times. If the answer is Optus or Telstra, keep looking.
Seems to me if you are on a 25MBS service, you should get at least that all the blogging time, or you shouldn’t have to pay.
I agree with others, put the LNP and Labor last when you next vote. Both are only working for the money that they trouser via ‘donations’ and it ain’t our money
Kaye I thought I was one of the lucky ones as we were connected fiber to the premises back in Feb 2014. But alas the 50 megs i was promised is IMPOSSIBLE.. After further investigation it was revealed that all internet traffic must go via the Lying Nazi Parties DATA SCREENING servers in Melbourne before it can flow on to the intended destination whether that be in Australia or Overseas. So in short while the LNP remain in power we as a nation are SCREWED….
Kaye,
While the ACCC’s speed monitoring system hasn’t started despite the promises, Choice Magazine is doing a long term survey at the moment (I have a supplied box plugged into my modem). For the record on a Speedtest at 5.12pm Brisbane time today I’m getting 47,4 down and 4.78 up on a 50/20 plan
Harry. FTTP would have arrived earlier. The NBN roll out came to a complete stop for around12 months when Abbott came to power while they worked out how they would make their incompatible technologies work. they also needed to purchase the new cabinets and more copper wire so they could get their tainted network started.
We could maybe go back further and blame the mess on the Howard government. it was they who sold off Telstra leaving the Nation without a government controlled entity that would have undoubtedly been constantly updating their technology. Would have been no need to start NBN Co.
We are on a 25/5 plan throttled back to 12/1 by the NBN during the Co-existence phase, our ISP said that on a 25/5 plan anything above 15 is considered acceptable. We are on a micronode down the road and then on 50 year old direct buried (no conduit) copper cables to and into the house. No upgrade path not even if we offered to pay for fibre. I hope that voters remember all this at the next election..
Same experience for me. Constant dropouts all around the clock, horrible speeds, people that have absolutely no idea what to do… I’m with NuSkope now and, oh my I haven’t had much of a problem for quite some months. AN absolutely pathetic shambles is what the NBN is.
If Fizza gave two hoots about the NBN he would have done something about it when he became PM. It is definitely true they do not want consumers to tell them how bad their NBN is because they already know. I would really like to know why there are no consequences for wasting $56 billion of taxpayer dollars on a massive pile of shit that will probably require at least half that again for a further upgrade to a full FTTP network which is what we should have had in the first place. Add to that the billions lost to our digital economy, and the lost opportunities in the future that we will be unable to develop because of piss poor infrastructure (those opportunities that will be snatched by those who can)? All the Lieberals involved (Abbott, Turnbull, Fifield, etc) should be in jail for massive waste of public money, treasonous behaviour and the destruction of our digital economy.
The address I use to look at the stats for my Telstra router is:
http://10.0.0.138/
I also have another little store-bought wireless router which, unlike the Telstra one, its wireless isn’t encrypted. This is useful for when I have visitors so they can access the net without needing the WPA security password. I live out in the country and the nearest neighbor is on the other side of the valley so there’s no chance of someone “stealing” bandwidth. The address I use to log into that little device to change its settings is:
http://192.168.1.1/
LNP sold the gold sold the gas sold us out a dud NBN etc.etc…. LNP costing Australians HEAPS CASH https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/15/peter-costellos-five-most-profligate-decisions-as-treasurer-cost-the-budget-56bn-a-year
Pete Petrass: “If Fizza gave two hoots about the NBN he would have done something about it when he became PM.”
I think you are a bit confused. He is the person who stuffed up the NBN on the orders of Abbott/IPA/Murdoch. He launched his “alternative” scheme of FTTN from Foxtel Studios. Who do you think helped him design his “alternative” but the engineers at Foxtel? Do you think he has the faintest idea about this technology? They of course engineered it so that it would not cause a loss of profitability to Foxtel through streaming by the likes of Netflix. Why would Turnbull undo that? He does give two hoots. It’s doing exactly what he wanted it to do.
totaram: I am not confused, I did say “IF Fizza gave two hoots…”. I am fully aware he does not which is also why he negotiated contracts to buy the Telstra and Optus HFC networks for such a large amount (also with no prior inspection of its condition) with a caveat that the taxpayer now has to pay for the maintenance and upkeep of those networks for as long as Murdoch and Foxtel want to use it. This is now despite the fact that the HFC networks are now not suitable for use in the MTM and a complete and utter waste of money. But we will continue to pay for upkeep and maintenance for as long as he wants to use it.
FTTP was the best, Turnbull, Mr Hotmail.com effed it up. His alleged savings that were shouted from the highest rooftops have never materialised as costs have been exceeded. Sorry Clayton your and info is yesterdays news. The copper wire or overhead bundle is n’t as good as any claims made by any IP or telco or NBN. Some suburbs will be better off and some folks will be in raptures. FOR EG: Potts Point NSW. Turnbull the Prince of potts point has his NBN speed at full capacity and he also has his solar panels and batteries.. nice when you have mates in the right place wanting favours down the track. Copper wire to the node is fraught with problems. My copper wire is a mess and my overhead bundle aka optus or foxytel is as well.. basically so is most of the country that hasn’t been quarantined . malcolm turnbull the best we have right now and getting worse by the day and the liberal party the worst we had..EVER
If there’s an advantage to having Telstra as your NBN Service Provider it’s the fact that Telstra still own and maintain most of the copper cabling used for FTTN and they already have wide bandwidth fibre interconnection connection in place. Many service providers simply lease and resell part of Telstra’s bandwidth so you could be buying the same thing but at an apparent discount – but there is a trade-off.
Service providers who eagerly offer “unlimited” downloads do so because they run their links at full capacity and that invariably results in slower speeds.
In my FTTN area, NBN are now supposed to technically “own” the copper cable but they have decided to leave it to Telstra to maintain because they simply don’t have the necessary support staff and because already Telstra possess all the cable database information.
If you have another service provider and experience a cable fault, the “chain” goes from your service provider who passes it onto NBN who then pass it in turn onto Telstra, and the reporting flows back the same way. Since Telstra has also outsourced most of its field support staff to Contractors so there’s an even more complicated path to have faults resolved.
No matter how you look at it, the implementation and support have been a shambles. Ironically if the original full fibre proposal went ahead as intended, everybody would be complaining about the slowness of connection rather than the slowness of speeds.
Why do they continue to issue these stupid excuses when we all know that the copper that they introduced into the fibre system is the only reason that the system is slow.
My problems with the NBN fibre to the node are similar to many others here slow speeds sudden drop outs no way I can see for me to stress test the connection to see what the maximum speed I might obtain all things actually working. Take a mid level plan and hope things get put right down the line when someone else takes over.
ADSL was slower but didn’t drop out, NBN is maybe four or five time faster at the fastest and if working.
I am wondering how this clown posse will manage Snowy 2 if they ever actually try to do it and not just talk it up for the TV sound bites.
I am in the West so will not be directly affected, but they mention power price increases if it’s not done but the cost will have to be added to everyone’s bills anyway. We can expect massive cost blowouts helping to enrich their business mates, delayed completion dates, and leaving you with either no stop gap measures because of the miracle to come and power cuts or restrictions. All the time other technologies will be improving, not that Snowy 2 is a bad idea at all, it’s just the dogs breakfast this lot will make of it scares me.
townsvilleblog, have you ever seen Monty Python’s dead parrot skit?
That is why the LNP continue to say the NBN is working even though everybody knows it isn’t.
In my recent and ongoing dealings with NBN and Telstra I have established that all customer support services for the former are handled out of call centres in the Philippines and with Telstra in Bangalore, India : I have specifically asked the question and whilst the response is sometimes evasive I’m pretty sure that is correct.
I have also noted, particularly with NBN, that the call-centre staff are very efficient and will text you – from a no reply number unfortunately – to tell you that a technician will be at your premises between 8 am and Noon on a given day and to ensure that an adult is home. I have also noted that these technicians who are independent contractors not employees of NBN rarely turn up and it’s impossible to find out why. So you waste half a day waiting for these phantoms.
We are currently awaiting a call from Telstra in Bangalore to sort out a billing stuff-up which the local Telstra shop cannot resolve !!
Beneath the surface this whole telecommunications network is in a mess and everybody in the government are
arse-covering.
Telstra needs to be split up and the hardware side nationalised. The other half concerned with selling services would compete with all the other companies on the nationally owned hardware infrastructure.
All communications should be with Telstra staff in Australia, not overseas call centers. If there are not enough staff to take the calls then more people should be employed. Telstra as a private company won’t do this, despite obscene profits. As a nationalised service there would be no difficulty employing more people here. People want jobs anyway. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
The NBN should be scrapped. It would be a hell of a big waste, but this government of dickheads can be fully blamed for that. We should have an open inquiry into what would be the best way to proceed, with the whole thing taken away from politicians — they’re incompetent when it comes to science and technology anyway, making them the very worst people to make such decisions. It should be put into the hands of scientists and engineers. Then whatever they choose should be done, the way we would design and build a radiotelescope. And it should be done by the nationalised hardware part of what was Telstra, not contracted out to big business mates to pad profit margins.
Incidentally, I think a similar process should be applied to all other national hardware infrastructure. Electricity, water, roads, etc. Private companies have shown over and over again that they can’t be trusted. Capitalism has wonderful capabilities, but it’s a bit like a banana — bananas taste great and are nourishing, but if you try to use them as hammers you just end up with a sticky mess that’s annoying to have to clean up.
Kaye Lee, it would seem Telstra has responded to the tsunami of complaints and dissatisfaction by creating an Executive Customer Contact Team which reports directly to Telstra CEO Andrew Penn. Telstra being Telstra they don’t advertise it and few know it exists. After my NBN transition debacle I wrote an old fashioned letter to Mr Penn directly, not expecting any sort of reply. A polite letter merely pointing out what a shambles the transition process is for us Telstra customers but lo and behold a very nice reply letter, signed by Mr Penn, showed up in my letter box a couple of days later.
I was contacted by a member of his Executive Customer Contact Team for further discussions re my unsatisfactory almost laughable experience which apparently is what most people get from Telstra.
The upshot was not very much. I had a monthly bill wavered, a FTTN running at 22Mb/sec upload and after me tinkering with the computer WIFI settings a somewhat stable connection only slightly better than the previous ADSL2. And I do mean only slightly better.
Here in rural Gippsland Telstra FTTN is sadly the best we can get. If something better was on offer you would be trampled in the stampede to exit Telstra such is the low standing in the community.
I would be interested in what Labor’s solution to the whole NBN shambles is going to be because somebody is going to have to fix the mess that TURNBULL & CO will soon leave us.
Either they knew that the copper system would be a failure, or they did not. No matter which, they are responsible for this complete disaster. Only Rupert can be happy with this.
Hmmmmm….from Telstra’s own page
“Telstra is required to switch off our copper network within 18 months of the nbn network being available in an area (a requirement overseen by the ACCC).”
https://www.telstra.com.au/support/category/broadband/nbn/do-I-have-to-switch-to-the-nbn-network
I signed up over 18 months ago and they have told me that the co-existence issue will not be fixed this year so that will be over 30 months with no date given for when it will happen.
Malcolm is right, Malcolm has always been right, Malcolm will always be right because Malcolm can never be wrong – the rest is all just errors of perception on the part of everyone else
Very costly farce this…
Here’s a little different look at what Foxtel is doing to customers who haven’t switched to satellite +iQ3.
They create a service fault so you call in to report, then you are advised you have to upgrade to satellite & iQ3…free upgrade…so you say ok…they say a techie will be there at such & such…you say ok, but can you fix my service now…they say sorry…goodbye…in an hour your Foxtel resets itself & all is good…techie arrives 3 weeks later to install satellite.
Interesting way to hold onto business.
BTW NBN will not be available here till 2020, & satellite unable to communicate due to the leaves in the trees!
I have FTTP, just ran another Ookla test, 94.28 down/36.52 up. Blame Abbott the idiot for your substandard FTTN.