An Open Letter to Tony Abbott

February 9, 2013
Written by: Dr Victoria Fielding

Dear Tony Abbott

I notice that you’ve been getting a free run in the mainstream media over your whole career and it occurred to me that you are out of practice in responding to scrutiny. So I thought I’d do you a favour and scrutinise your supposed vision for our country, on the off chance that this experience might come in useful one day. Like, just say, if you become Prime Minister of Australia and someone dares to ask you what on earth you might actually do during your time in the top job. Assuming anyone cares.

Now bear with me as I examine your policies, as I do understand that you are very keen not to reveal these until the last minute before the election. So I’m just going to have to go by ideas that you’ve floated and talking points that your colleagues have mistakenly inserted in between the barrage of harassment, verbal abuse, smear and stunts that is your unique brand of Opposition conduct.

Let’s start with an important policy – the Carbon Price. We haven’t missed that you don’t like this policy. You resigned from Turnbull’s Shadow Ministry in 2009 in protest against his support of Rudd’s Emissions Trading policy. You won the Liberal leadership by one vote (probably Peter Slipper’s) by promising to attack this policy. You won the support of your fossilized front bench by mounting a mission to destroy the Carbon Price. And most importantly, you won the support of Gina Rinehart, someone who appears to hate the Carbon Price more than you do, by promising to ‘axe the tax’. This strategy has literally paid dividends to your party. So I can see, from your point of view, your opposition to this policy is a winner. But this is where I have a slight problem. It’s the whole ‘your point of view’ thing. You see, Tony, when I look at your policies, all I can see is that they are going to benefit you. You personally. When your policies also coincidentally benefit some of your rich mates like Rinehart, the end result is that these rich mates pay your party money to continue your quest to help them. Their support personally benefits you. You’ve made it very clear that you’re an ambitious person and you obviously desperately want to be PM. Tony Windsor has a voice mail from you that outlines this desperation succinctly. But here’s the rub. I feel you’ve also made it blatantly clear with your behaviour and ideas over your time as Leader of the Opposition that you are more interested in short term personal gain for yourself, than long term, difficult but ultimately beneficial reform for Australia.

Your Direct Action Policy is obviously bullshit and won’t go anywhere near meeting the emissions reduction target agreed to by your party. You don’t seem to mind that you’re attacking market based mechanisms (Carbon Pricing and the ETS), which is odd because your party is very fond of letting the market run free. Instead, you are advocating a centrally controlled, government funded scheme that will cost tax payers $30 billion dollars and would definitely be labeled ‘Communism’ by your friends from the Tea Party. $30 billion dollars, Tony, is a lot of electricity bills. And worst of all, you don’t seem to give a crap about the environment and the effect that Climate Change will have on my generation and future generations of Australians. (Notice how I used the word crap).

The Carbon Price was a difficult reform for the minority Labor government to implement. Good reforms are often challenging political battles to win. Successfully implementing the policy, of course, was made a lot harder by your anti-Carbon Price circus, but thankfully the Labor government prevailed, the sky didn’t fall down and Whyalla hasn’t been wiped off the map. In fact, emissions are already reducing. Good result! But rather than applaud this policy success, and acknowledge the good that it will do for reducing Australia’s emissions, and also the importance of acting as a responsible global citizen, you are basing an election campaign on a promise to kill this crucial, once in a lifetime reform. To deliver what exactly? Slightly cheaper electricity bills. So you’re appealing to the electorate’s lowest common denominator – their hip pockets – today – rather than being a leader and making the necessary tough decisions to ensure the safety and economic security of our nation’s future.

What about the National Broadband Network? Your so-called mate Turnbull is trumpeting this reform around town as a waste of money. Like a used car salesman trying to undercut a dealer down the road, Turnbull is offering a cheaper, lesser quality broadband network, in the place of the one that experts in the technology sector say is the only viable option for sufficiently increasing broadband speeds Australia wide. Getting the National Broadband Network right the first time, rather than paying less and installing a lemon, is, in my view, very important for the future efficiency and productivity of Australia’s economy. Your party likes to talk about increasing productivity doesn’t it? But again, you take the easy road to policy popularity and mislead the Australian public into thinking that you can wave a magic wand and fix everything with your supposedly bottomless pit of revenue. It’s clear that experts and you don’t see eye to eye. But I can tell you, the electorate is going to be rightly pissed off if you rip apart a high quality, revenue generating broadband network, and replace it with one that keeps Telstra in the arrangement, relies on rotting copper and will result not only in lower speeds but in tens of thousands of ugly fridge-like cabinets churning away on suburban streets and sucking power. That’s right, the NBNCo cabinets currently being installed around the country are small and don’t require power. The fibre being installed currently is waterproof, so it won’t cut out when an area floods (due to Climate Change) and will provide the fastest possible signal to most of the country. But you plan to replace this technically superior product with a dodgy ‘solution’ that will require a new coal fired power station just to run it, and will keep Telstra happily maintaining copper that is way past its used by date. In fact most experts are now questioning whether Turnbull’s Fibre-To-The-Node solution will end up costing more than the current NBN. It’s interesting to note that you don’t seem to give much thought to what might happen on the other side of September 14. There’s only one thing you care about. You and you being in power, right now.

I noticed that one of your policies (or so called ‘Discussion Papers’) about a northern Australian economic zone accidentally got leaked to the media this week. I see you have been busy denying that this plan will ever be put into practice, but excuse me if I don’t believe you. You see, we know how much Rinehart means to you (your pocket) and your future plans for your career. We know how important getting rid of the mining super profits tax is to Rinehart. Funny that you and your colleagues have been calling on Wayne Swan to resign because the Mining Tax so far hasn’t brought in enough revenue. Don’t you think this attitude is pretty rich coming from the party who has promised to get rid of the tax, and it’s resulting government revenue, altogether? No doubt you think you can get away with such hypocrisy since the mainstream media never call you out on anything. But we all know how much you would like to support Rinehart in her quest to pay little or no tax at all. So we can see that you’re working behind the scenes to bring Rinehart’s plan for this country to fruition. It’s really not a good look that you’d prefer to support Rinehart’s ever growing multi-billion dollar fortune, rather than sharing the benefits from the sale of mineral resources with all Australians. I think the electorate would think this was a pretty bad look too if the mainstream media bothered to make as big a deal out of it as they would if they had any professional integrity and journalistic skill.

The more I scrutinise the bare bones of un-costed ideas that claim to count as political policy, the better I get to know you Tony. You’re that five year old who takes the one marshmallow now, instead of deferring gratification in order to wait for two in the future. You’re offering the Australian people a magic pudding economy of higher government spending, lower taxes, a better economy, lower cost of living and no concerns about Climate Change, that anyone with half a brain can see that you have no hope of delivering. Yet you are so blinkered by blind ambition and selfish yearnings for personal success that it’s clear that you don’t give a shit about Australia. And this is why I think you don’t deserve to be captain of a CFS unit, let alone Prime Minister of this country.

Yours Sincerely
Victoria Rollison

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246 comments

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AngelaFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:24 am

Excellently written victoria – 5 stars to you 🙂

Ray BoultonFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:45 am

About Climate change, it has amused me since the debate began thet educated people will run off to Scientific research to save then from cancer heart disease Diabetec etc but when a scientist comes up with climate change they run off to Larry Pickering Alan Jones etc oh well it might be me.

John LordFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:54 am

In addition there is of course Gonski and the NDIS . What is his intention with these.

steven jamesFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:48 am

keep up the good work victoria, and i will keep sharing it… : )

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:50 am

Victoria, excellent. I just wish that someone/anyone would call Abbott out on his so-called Direct Action Plan. It seems that no matter how expensive, no matter how unworkable that Tony’s ideas receive nothing more than nodding heads from Australia’s media.

DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm

Well done Victoria. You have said what people who look past what the MSM feed them and looked at what is really happening. I’d expect a stream of hate comming at you from the Coalition zealots in their usual Holden vs Ford religious devotion. I will be glad when things like the NBN break the mainstream media and give everyone easy access to less politically biased news reporting. I know they have always had a bias, but the last few years it has gone to extremes. One can only assume there are some people who really don’t like a woman running this country. I am not saying she is the worlds best PM but her and Labor seem to be honestly trying to do some good for the country. The alternative of Abbott, a sociopath whose whole end goal is power, who hasn’t even thought past winning the election, well no thanks. People such as him, and as I am finding out, Malcolm Turnbull, with their flexible honesty, are not looking for what’s good for Australia, they are looking at what is good for them.

KelvinFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm

Great work, I wanted more!!

sulphurcrestedFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:14 pm

Excellent article, Victoria. Bang on the nose.
This loser cannot be allowed to get near the levers of power and “wreck the joint” (thank you Paul Keating) which is his only modus operandi. What a worse than worthless piece of junk is Tony Abbott.

el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:14 pm

‘To deliver what exactly?’

He’s on record as saying human induced global warming is ‘crap’, so he will dismantle the edifice.

To bring this about the Coalition may be revolutionary in their approach to CC, using the latest data to show global warming has stopped and CO2 has no part to play.

Its risky strategy, but necessary if they are to win both houses.

Geoff Of EppingFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:21 pm

Victoria. You are a goddess. I pity Tony. He may well win this next election due to his adoring and uninformed sycophants. But mark my words. One year after a disastrous Abbott Prime Ministership, with Bronwyn Bishop (has been), Julie Bishop (out of her depth), Sophie Mirabella (a cross between Lady Macbeth and Medusa) Joe Hockey (stupider than a rock), George Brandis (he’s guilty I say) Chrissy Pyne (a mincing dilettante with a sewer for a mouth), Peter Dutton (inspector plod) Eric Abetz (poor old fool) Andrew Robb (who?) Barnaby Joyce (clueless Mary from the dairy) and the rest of his adoring cheering clueless acolytes; voters will be clamouring for anything but what they willingly voted for. All led, of course, by Tony’s right hand “woman”, Peta Credlin….she of the frozen IVF medications in Tony’s fridge. Isn’t he such a considerate SNAG?
The arrogance, nastiness and complete moral vacuum that these slugs operate in will implode and Australians will be mopping the mess left for decades to come.
Well I for one am resigned to the Reign of Terror about to be unleashed on us…but I’m not so sure about the willing followers of this band of hopelessly inept polished turds.

Adam TaylorFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:43 pm

Fantastic piece, you’re an artist!

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm

Bravo!! From the heart! Our media is shameful..run by old men in the pocket of Murdoch’s billionaire mates..Tony does not give a toski about the Australian working class..We have to get out there and re-educate the Murdoch media victims lied to about facts, because Tony Abbott can NEVER be Prime Minister of Australia, he cares NOTHING about the future of our children or the environment, he’s in it for himself only and he is an embarrassment to us on the world stage…In ya guts you know he’s nuts!!

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 12:05 pm

Ray Boulton – It’s not just you..many of us would agree with that…the likes of Jones Bolt and Pickering are a stain on civilized society..Anyone else not in big paid shock jock land spouting the garbage they do would be thrown in to the nearest psych facility.

Paul BoundyFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:15 pm

Straight to the point. Thanks.
I’m thinking how to get messages about Tony and Liberal/Nationals to those that need to hear them and I think that the Unions would be very helpful. Any better ideas for connecting with swinging voters?

cmskinnerFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:15 pm

Spot on, Victoria. Well written, now do ensure you email it to Tony, every day for 2 weeks.

LauraFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:51 pm

+10 internets for you Victoria.

Graz WFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:09 pm

A good article. But unfortunately, as was in the Howard era, they don’t care. They don’t believe / don’t want to believe in climate change. They have absolutely no care for people who come to us for help (and yet they go to church). They don’t care that thousands of Australian children will never receive a proper education. They don’t care about their fellow Australian workers rights. In other words, they think they are better than the rest of us. And they don’t seem to think they need to be honest with us. They have an unbelievably low opinion of democracy, but have no hesitation to send soldiers to their death in the name of it. When will Australia wake up to this fraud?

Reece HFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm

If only all Australians were as switched on as you. It wouldn’t even be at the point where we’d be worried this muppet and his fossils would even be considered a vote. We all know the reason why the media is so biased, *cough* Murdoch *cough*

Julian StevensonFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:37 pm

Brilliant, I’m sharing it.

Victoria RollisonFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Good question about swing voters. I really don’t know how to connect to them as I don’t think they are engaged with independent media etc. Most of the people I meet who say they hate Gillard and the Carbon Price was a lie etc are just Liberals who have always voted Liberal, whether they’re willing to admit to it or not. I personally can’t see why anyone who voted for Gillard in 2010 wouldn’t also support her in 2013, but hey, I am biased.

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Victoria, nicely put 😀 Let’s hope he gets to read it?

Mischmash1, “In your guts you know he’s nuts” 😀

In your guts you know he’s nuts
The Abbott’s more than a political clutz
His mouth springs open
While his brain just shuts
If the Abbott played golf he’d play
No drive… bad putts
🙄

It’s really sad the Abbott’s mad
His economic creds are just plain bad
On foreign policy
He’s a bit of a lad
And his attitude to Women
Is rough… just a tad
😯

He’s politically lazy but he’s also crazy
His policy platform’s kinda hazy
His ears might be cauliflower
But his brain’s pure daisy
And his temperament he struggles with
Cos his anger’s… quite.. blazey

Though lacking hearts, his team play their parts
With very few finishes, despite plenty of starts
Avoiding talk on policy
Yet defending Abbotts brain farts
While their lies, spin and dishonesty
Are rating…. off the charts
:Razz:

Chrissy Pyne thinks he’s just fine
But the mincing poodle’s full of whine
Bishops class, is just a farce
As she’s always talking through her arse
Sloppy Joe Hockey is always cocky
Though to say the least.. his maths are rocky
🙁

Barnaby lets his mouth run free
But he can’t see the wood, cos it’s hidden in the tree
Turnbulls creds are all in shreds
As he’s aligned himself with the farting heads
And the whole front bench, has an awful stench
Like a rotting carcase beaten.. with a monkey wrench

And it’s really sad that they’re all quite mad
Pushing ideas that are old and bad
And they’re all quite lazy and completely crazy
With a policy platform that’s incredibly hazy
And everyone with him is a political clutz
And in your guts.. you know they’re ALL.. bloody… nuts
😀

http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/in-your-guts-you-know-
hes-nuts/

and plenty more on my blog 😀

Cheers 🙂 😀 😆

Johnny rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:48 pm

A lot of crap SORRY

DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:48 pm

I am a swinging voter. There is no way I will vote for Abbott however. Over the years I have probably voted for the Liberals more often than not. I vote on merrits however, and the current Coalition MPs are just people I don’t want to see in charge or anything, they are low life lying scum, I’d prefer them not even to live in this country. Every time I take a good look at what Tony says is a Labor disaster the more I see what he calls a disaster has been a very good thing for Australia.

DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm

“A lot of crap SORRY” How can the truth be crap? Do you suckle the Murdoch teat?

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm

“In addition there is of course Gonski and the NDIS . What is his intention with these”

I believe we are being told, we cannot afford them.

He has once again missed the point. The truth is we cannot afford not to bring them into being.

it is an important part of growing the pie.

bushfirebillFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:11 pm

Sometimes I think it’s pointless to try to analyze Abbott policies.

My take is that he has an agenda of leaving so many punters unsure about so many of his policies that no-one (probably including Abbott) knows just whathis policies are.

I had a conversation with two “tradies” this morning at a domestic construction site near where I live.

One of them was cursing his iPhone for dropping out in the middle of downloads. The other had a different service provider and was able to log onto his firm’s web site to get the location of the next job.

We got talking (as people do) and I asked them what they thought of Gillard.

“Bitch!”, “Dickhead!” they replied almost in unison.

What did they think of Abbott?

“F**kwit!”, “Fake!” came the answers.

Did they think their problems would be solved by the NBN?

“Yes”, “No”

Why “No”… because the NBN is broadband not wireless replied the one who said “No”.

“Yeah but it’ll make things faster” said the other.

DId they think Abbott was going to let it be finished?

“Yes”, “No” again.

One thought he’d build it but was just bullshitting about knocking it down. The other thought he was being honest saying it’d go.

They probably intend to vote for Abbott but both have diametrically opposed views on what one of his core policies is.

You get that a lot around town. Hardly anyone believes he can turn the boats around, but they WANT to believe it.

No-one wants services depleted simply to force a surplus in the first year, but they would LIKE that to be the case. Half believe Abbott is going for a surplus and the other half don’t.

Abbott has been very successful in being all things to all people. whatever policy pronouncement he makes, there’s a Bizarro World mirror image of it somewhere that is completely arse-about to the other version.

No-one trusts him, either. But plenty – say 5%-10%… ENOUGH – THINK they know what the con is,and THINK they can outsmart him, cherry-picking the best bits and turfing the rest.

Abbott is better than a chameleon: a chameleon can only change its appearances one at a time. Abbott can be simultaneously Climate Friendly and Climate Antagonistic. Love the NBN and hate it. Be for better superannuation and agin it. Want to build up the Tropical North and dismiss that idea as dreaming.

The aim is to create confusion and dilemma.To bamboozle the public into thinking he’ll do the right thing, if only they can figure out what the “right thing” is. The “right thing” is what they BELIEVE he has promised, but nobody knows for sure.

They’ve been conditioned into thinking that the correct way to approach national elections is with baseball bats. They’re after revenge for something or other. Their votes are the mechanism of that revenge.

Their votes have been trivialized by the plethora of voting opportunities they now have. Voting on opinion polls (or reading about other who do), voting on TV shows, voting with their loose chage with on-line betting agencies.Gambling is a sort fo vote too.

When it comes to the Big One – the national election – the aim is to fool the people into thinking this is just another poll, a bet, a reversible investment.

That is Abbott’s plan: trivialize the important, keep the punters angry, be all things to all men, and get into powerno matter what.

Until the battlers realize this they are just setting themselves up for victimhood, fools easily parted not with their money, but with their precious franchise which Abbott has taught them to devalue.

The best way to avoid being conned is to walk away. Don’t try to outsmart the scammer. That is what they RELY on. You can never do it.

This is why I say trying to make sense of Abbott’s policy positions is a pointless task. He HAD no policy positions beyond basic brain fart status.

Better to attack the man and the scam he is running than to try to make sense of what he is saying. You can’t. It’s supposed to be that way.

THAT is Abbott’s technique.

DashaFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm

How is Labor going to pay for grandiose ideas of Gonski and NDIS ?
Perhaps borrow more money, who cares about $ 20 millions a day interest repayment. Or money just grows from trees.

Mining tax put job security and national investments at great risk but virtually raised no money ( after implementation and administration costs ).

Only this dumb Gillard/ swan Labor government could achieve this fiasco. What a bunch of laughing stock.

Australians are prepared to give Abbott coalition a go. They are sick of this Labor’s economic vandalism and rotten- to- core corruption.

Gillard has to go. Everything she did or does is only for her own survival. Sorry to say this: she has singlehandedly destroyed a once mighty Labor party.

Victoria, you are entitled to express you opinion for your political alliance. But I found the use of Australian”Independent” media network is deceptive and unlawful.

bushfirebillFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:24 pm

I found the use of Australian”Independent” media network is deceptive and unlawful.

Well, you’re posting here aren’t you Dasha? How is that deceptive and unlawful? It seems like even clowns such as yourself are allowed to express an opinion here.

Sounds pretty independent to me.

Labor’s “economic vandalism” has caused Australia’s dollar to become one of the world reserve currencies. It’s caused all three ratings agencies to give it AAA status. It’s kept unemployment to under 5.5%, in a world where other governments would go to war to achieve that. It’s kept interest rates at absolute record lows.

You have a weird definition of “vandalism”.

shanepotterblokeFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm

Well written Victoria 🙂 thankyou!

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Mr. Abbott’s email, so one can forwarded the letter on. Fun, even all it achieves is choking his mail box.

Tony.Abbott.MP@aph.gov.au

DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Dasha, your comments have nothing to do with the article. The article was that all Abbott’s policies and what he says is purely based on self interest. Since you didn’t defend him any way I will take that for agreement.
“you are entitled to express you opinion for your political alliance”
What has it go to do with political alliance? I usually vote liberal but it’s obvious what Vectoria says is the truth.
“Gillard has to go” I do not like aspects of her behaviour either, too reactionary to popular opinion. I do see her growing and making some hard choices. However I could never vote for Abbott, the guy is scum.

DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:26 pm

”
I found the use of Australian”Independent” media network is deceptive and unlawful.”
LOL, like asylum seekers coming to our country is illegal. You as big a liar as Abbott.

BMacFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm

I’m afraid your lack of understanding makes it look more like YOU are a ‘bunch of laughing stock’ Dasha.

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:41 pm

Oh, & here comes el trollo with his usual anti-science bulldust. Physics, Chemistry & the temperature record tell a very different story to what you & your Lunar Right mates are claiming, el trollo. Here’s a question, though, if Abbott believes climate change is “crap” (as he does), then why is he prepared to spend more than $30 billion of tax-payers money in order to deal with it? Of course his “plan” sounds like nothing more than fleecing hard-working lower income Australians in order to lavish the wealthy with welfare-much like their superannuation “plan”. Of course this is all part of a pathetic attempt to appease the dinosaurs of the fossil fuel industry & the lunar-Right members of the Tin-foil hat brigade. You appear to be a card carrying member of the latter group, el trollo.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:52 pm

Puzzled. Unlawful. How?

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:06 pm

Great work Victoria. Should be written on the eyelids of the msm journalists who refuse to see!

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:11 pm

Just to ensure some balance-

” Let’s start with an important policy – the Carbon Price.”

…and let’s look at Gillard, the policy she has implemented is nothing like the policy she took to the election. So does the current policy framework reflect well on Gillard?

” What about the National Broadband Network?

How about we have a look at the ALP approach. An NBN program that is over 5 times per capita as the world’s next most expensive. A cost of about $8,000 for every family. $2000for every pensioner in the country.

An expensive political fix significantly because the it is being rolled out into regions where it makes no economic sense.

” so called ‘Discussion Papers’

Is it OK if we call future ALP discussion papers “policies”?

” you don’t deserve to be captain of a CFS unit

Would you mind identifying a single voluntary community organisation Gillard participates in?

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm

Just brilliant, Victoria.

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:18 pm

One of the most biased attacks against Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party I have had the unfortunate opportunity to read. One sided bias attack but what would we expect from the author. No mention of the deceitful acts and lies from Juliar Gillard that the people of Australia have experienced since her rise to the top job.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:25 pm

Tom, you do realise that much of what you see as negatives, others see as positives.

As for being biased, anymore than those do not see the lies the Mr. Abbott espouses every day. For every word that comes from his mouth, one can find an example where he said the opposite. One version has to be a lie.

Mr.Abbott believes in telling what ever audience he is addressing, what he believes they want to hear.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:28 pm

Tom, I believe that Mr. Abbott has attended two fires in 8 years.

Can you inform us, of how many brigade meetings he turns up too.

You do realise, his brigade was not called to the south coast.

Would you mind identifying a single voluntary community organisation Howard or Costello participates in?

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:34 pm

Dasha, I don’t know what Australia that you live in, but it’s certainly not the one that the rest of us live in, that has an economy the envy of the rest of the developed world! 😯

Wake up 🙁 🙄 🙁

The worst thing is that you don’t even have any idea what Abbott and his band of corrupt cronies stand for, cos even they don’t! , except power at any cost, for which idiots like you, who vote for him, will ultimately pay along with our kids and the rest of the populous…. unless you’re mega rich of course!

Sad, very sad 🙁 😥

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:38 pm

On an independent political blog site, I think it is reasonable to subject leaders of the major parties to similar levels of scrutiny, and I’d expect that to be accepted as long as the comments are non abusive and rational.

Please let me know if you have any problems with this approach!

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:39 pm

Dashas definition of vandalism = painting over the graffiti, fixing up the fences and making the house the envy of the neighbourhood. 😆

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:41 pm

Fair enough, ToM. I invite you to send a post to me with a balancing view. I’d be more than happy to post it on your behalf.

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:42 pm

Ah Dasher, the thing about investing money in the *people* of this nation-& it’s infrastructure-is that it has a way of paying back far, far more than the original investment over time. An NDIS means that more working aged people can re-enter the workforce-meaning increased tax receipts in the long-term. School reform means a better skilled & educated population-resulting in higher average wages &, again, increased tax-receipts. Now, lets compare that to the Howard era, where he pumped *billions* of dollars into propping up the massively inefficient health insurance & child care industries, gave up billions of dollars of revenue due to tax-cuts for the wealthy & spent hundreds of millions of dollars on partisan political advertising! I know which I’d prefer!

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:45 pm

“No mention of the deceitful acts and lies from Juliar Gillard that the people of Australia have experienced since her rise to the top job.”

Yeah right, Mark, what a load of codswallop. Your use of the term “Juliar” immediately exposes you as one of the paid-up members of Menzies House, who troll Center-Left political blogs spreading bull-crap. Care to provide an actual instance of the “deceitful acts” & “lies” you’ve mentioned? I doubt you will, Mark, because you sound like a “hit & run” troll to me!

el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:49 pm

Migs as I mentioned at the cafe, its simply wrongheaded to be openly biased.

The idea of the AIMN is sound, but I get this overwhelming impression that its an ‘editors club’ composed of rusted ons.

How about giving Treeman a guest post … 5 short pars and one link?

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:52 pm

Can we have a dislike button?

Would love to see posts from out visitors.

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:53 pm

“and let’s look at Gillard, the policy she has implemented is nothing like the policy she took to the election”.

Really, Tom? Care to present us with the policy Gillard presented to the public at the election, & show us where it differs from what actually got implemented? Even if there were differences, what else would you expect under a HUNG PARLIAMENT?

“How about we have a look at the ALP approach. An NBN program that is over 5 times per capita as the world’s next most expensive.”

Again, got any *evidence* to back that claim up? I bet you haven’t. Far from being a “political fix”, the NBN represents a vital investment in critical infrastructure that was left to rot by a Government more interested in propping up inefficient industries like Private Health Insurance & Privatized Child Care, or splashing around tax-cuts to buy votes. Pity the Limited News readers like yourself can’t see that obvious fact!

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:55 pm

Why, el trollo? Trollman simply talks crap & spends most of his time idolizing frauds like Larry Pickering. Give someone like him 5 paragraphs, & he’ll spend most of it saying “Labor sucks, Coalition rulez” for at least 4 of them, because that’s the only argument members of the Lunar Right seem capable of coming up with.

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:58 pm

btw, el trollo & dasher, this is * independent*-namely independent of Murdoch, Reinhart, Palmer & other powerful vested interests. Just because the so-called “rusted ons” are the only people who are capable of constructing a decent argument is hardly their fault, or the fault of the editors. The frequent, pointless contributions of the Abbott Adorers Society-here & at Cafe Whispers-are proof positive of why they have no business getting published as a by-line.

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:00 pm

Marcus just to show you that I am not a “hit and run” troll as you falsely accuse me to be. Here is just a few examples of many:

I will not introduce a carbon tax. What do we currently have ETS. Lie number ONE.

Labor led by JG withdrawl of support for gambling/poker machine reform. Why did she walk away from the reform? Simple answer – backlash from labor heartland voter. Deceitful act number ONE.

Sacking of long servicing Labor senator of 15 years. Why ? Another simple answer because the incumbent had the wrong colour skin. Discrimination at its best. Deceitful act number TWO.

The list goes on…and why? Simple answer – Power

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:05 pm

Mark, is that the best you can do.

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:10 pm

Catching up, they are the facts and there are many more examples of lies and deceit.

BacchusFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:12 pm

Mark, that looks like it was lifted direct from a Bolt blog. Haven’t you got an original thought in your head that you’d like to share? 😉

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:13 pm

No, tjhey are your versions of the fact, and far from the truth.

el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:16 pm

‘How about Treeman start his own site?’

Leftard Editors Only Need Apply

Victoria seems popular.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:18 pm

For Marcsu – there’s plenty of material about the HUGE cost of our NBN if you care to look.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/nbn-most-extreme-broadband-plan-eiu-20111010-1lh7i.html

“At the far end of this range of intervention is Australia, which has both the highest level of total public funds pledged, $27.1 billion, and the highest level of public spending per household, due to the government’s plan to create, own and operate an ultra-fast fibre network in virtually all parts of the country,” the EIU said.

But my mistake, apparently Qatar and Greece have ones that are expensive too. Ours is only around 50% to twice as expensive as those ones.

But …”For the US and UK the cost per household was estimated at $159 and $57, respectively” …compared to ours at over $3000!!

…and Marcus, the policy framework Gillard took to the election was –
• A program over 3 years to build community consensus
• A representative forum involving lay members of the electorate to build community consensus
• No change in current polccy until 30 June 2013 at the earliest
• No carbon tax

Could you advise which of those public commitments she fulfilled?

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:18 pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCjQyj0CEAAfGDW.jpg:large

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:22 pm

Bacchus – typical catchcry response when presented with the facts

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:31 pm

Catchin up

So you are tellng me and everyone else:

Norther Territory Labor senator did not get the sack/releived of her position by the PM she held for 15 years. If you dont believe me ask Senator Crossin.

Poker reforms not watered down. If you dont believe me ask Senator Wilkie.

No carbon tax. Ask the PM she wont denying saying.

Not versions of the facts….just fact

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:32 pm

ToM, please feel free to write an open letter to Julia Gillard if you have issues with her.

Here we are talking about Tony Abbott.

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:36 pm

Mark, one can only write from one’s own perspective. If you believe that there are errors of fact, please feel free to itemise these.

CaroleFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:42 pm

Thank you Victoria. All the little trolls came trip-trapping to add their inane comments. Check out this YouTube video about one of TA’s ‘besties’.

“The ballad of Gina Rinehart”

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:43 pm

Mark, 😥 Try Dolts blog 👿

Scroll jammed= Moot point 🙁 Moot point 🙁 pathetic 🙁 moot point but
There are many selfless volunteers who do great work for their communities (Abbott not being one of them IMHO), but i’ve not met one that should be running the country necessarily (Abbott included/especially)

Companies don’t call for volunteers to be CEO, the army doesn’t call for volunteers to run a battle, etc etc 😯

Cheers 😀

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:43 pm

For over a decade, Labor has trying to get an indigenous person into that post. Last time, the Senator won by one vote.

There are many that see this as an injustice.,

Many see the PM fixing a wrong. The good senator fought last time, and was unlikely to come to the party this time.

One is elected for a term. One does not have the right to expect, once in the job, one is there for life.

There are similar, very nasty fights going on in the Coalition. Slippers seat and one on the Central Coast NSW for starters.

Police called in, and ended up in court, for the latter one.,

There was a vote taken in the Territory, most fell in behind the PM.

What you are complaining about is the rough and tumble of politics, that many from the right, say that they PM needs to toughen up and get on with the job.

It seems she has taken their advice.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:44 pm

As for the Poker reforms, at least the PM did manage to get some through. Not what some wanted, but what was feasible.

One can do no more than that.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:49 pm

Yes, no carbon tax. It is also a shame that she said in the same paragraph that she would be bringing a price on carbon emission.

This was said in the context of the time, where there discussion was about a straight carbon tax, which Abbott had raised, and an ETS, or price on carbon emissions.

Yes, the media and Opposition have been very sneaky in their presentations of what was said.

We have a fixed price on carbon emissions, that will end up as a market based cost on carbon emissions in the near future.

it is not a tax..

sulphurcrestedFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:50 pm

Don’t feed the trolls. They are a waste of time and energy. If they are fed, they love it and trying to reason with them still hijacks the threads. That’s why they are doing it. They are parasites and energy leeches, as well as all the other nasty , pointless things that they are.
I’d prefer to see their crap deleted rather than remain posted. There’s enough of that BS in MSM and in the minds of people who can’t think for themselves.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:51 pm

I notice Chris Berg (IPA) made a negative comment about the http://www.independentaustralia.net/ yesterday and here today there are LNP trolls trying to distract from the point. That’s what they do. DISTRACT with RED HERRINGS.
The point? Abbott is a liar and wrecking ball. So is the LNP.
It’s obvious they are giving Tone a couple of months, with a lot of help, to make the grade and if he doesn’t swing around the voter’s perception .. Hockey is the next cab off the rank.
Meanwhile they’ll whinge about the government (anything to distract from abbot as much as possible), distract from their lack of policies and generally run and hide.
As for the trolls .. they are doing a job. I reckon ignore them completely so their boss checks their figures (or penetration), sees none .. and sacks them.

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:55 pm

El gordo, then you would be wrong..same as at Cafe Whispers, anyone who submits a topic will be published as long as the article complies with legal standards regarding defamation and copyright.

jaFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:57 pm

Tony Abbott said in his NPC speech that he always believed in anthropomorphic climate change. So the ‘truth’ is whatever he wants to say at the time even if it means rewriting history, because he’ll deny it. The planned chaos is less successful now thanks to the net and fully demonstrates his constant changes.

He has policies in the same way I look through a magazine and decide to change a room, without any plan, just a possible idea until I have the next one. He and Joe Hockey contradict one another – Joe Hockey even forgets what he has just said, as he did yesterday about superannuation.

I understand that some people will vote LNP because they always have and so are not interested in policies. What I can’t fathom is why low-paid workers or ‘battlers’ support LNP. They will take away the schoolkids’ bonus but put in their expensive maternity leave provisions and maintain high salaried women. Tony Abbott’s understanding of ‘poverty’ is ‘struggling to maintain a $750,000 mortgage and was illustrated by his puerile version of carbon tax, where we’d pay and then at the end of the year claim it all back. As though ‘battlers’ can wait – and as though that wouldn’t have cost an enormous amount in adminstration, just another room-change idea.

You’re wrong Dasha. This Australian reaches near hysteria at the thought of this dishonest, ignorant and poorly prepared person representing us as Prime Minister, with his support of unprincipled people like Mal Brough as elected members. I wouldn’t use the term ‘corrupt’ if I were you unless you have actual proof.

I’ve never seen evidence of The PM putting herself before Australia. Tony Abbott does it every time he talks down the economy or starts some scare campaign or other. He did it from the minute he insisted there had to be another election and he’s doing it now with his blithe promise of a double dissolution and promises to destroy major legislation an elected government developed – not one person, a government and a policy that seems to be working. He lies when he says it would ‘quickly’ bring down electricity prices and would be lucky to get it repealed before the transition to an ETS (the Howard-preferred plan)

I also noted how nobody has actually stuck up for Tony Abbott’s policies with any sort of credible argument.

Thank you Victoria for a clear and interesting article.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:58 pm

It was Abbott that raised the issue of a carbon tax at the time. The PM was responding to his statement.

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:59 pm

Might be the rough and tumble of politics as you say. As someone who currently employs a number of staff I can just imagine the flogging I would receive from the unions via FWA if I was to sack someone simply because I thought there time was up. The PM claims it was the “capitan’s” choice, but if I or anyone else was to sack an employee for no reason unions would throw the book at me. Once again catching up – A Fact

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:02 pm

How about giving Treeman a guest post … 5 short pars and one link?

How about Treeman start his own site?

NellMFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:04 pm

Brilliant piece Victoria, have shared it on FB. Keep up the great work.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:05 pm

This is my last reply. You choose to ignore, that the PM did nothing, that goes on from time to time in politics.

The PM did it because, one, she has the power to do so. , Two, because if was the correct thing to do.

The senator was not sacked. She is still in the senate. Her term runs out soon.

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:05 pm

TS, and here is a link to the article, written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan and titled:

Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm

Interesting is the troll-tactic of labelling a blog “unfair and unbalanced”..while at the same time being awarded the freedom to express their own opinion.

katieFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:34 pm

how the hell did I get on the so one sided page!

I guess you were lucky (Miglo).

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm

Katie that exactly what I thought when I read it..one sided indeed..100% bias

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:42 pm

I know it’s an issue ALP supporters such as Min and Catching Up don’t enjoy being reminded of…but the fact is that Gillard provided on unequivocal written commitment on the nature of the poker machine reform.

The best that can be said of this is that it was a commitment she wasn’t entitled to provide, because she was in no position to guarantee delivery of it. Some people may see her shirking as a breach of the very undertaking that put her in the Lodge.

This was no normal written commitment, and Gillard was unable to even deliver her own party to support it.

If her agreement had included a proviso that it was subject to the composition of the HoR (or something), then some of the excuses might have a point.

el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:44 pm

Comment deleted – totally irrelevant to the topic (Miglo).

BacchusFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:48 pm

Mark, the point you choose to ignore in your wilful ignorance, is that Sen Crossin is not employed by Ms Gillard. Your analogy with your employees is just rubbish.

Ms Crossin was endorsed by her party to stand for election as a Senator for the NT. This endorsement has now been withdrawn.

If she so desires, she can stand as a candidate for the senate in the next election – there’s nothing stopping her. Whether she is employed or not is up to the voters…

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:52 pm

“how the hell did I get on the so one sided page!”

Because it is the view from the left. I find the same thing when I go to sites, that give the view from the right.

Might learn something new, if you hang about.

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:52 pm

The full transcript is “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but lets be absolutely clear. I am determined to price carbon”

Abbott would have also agreed to implementing a price on carbon to get his grubby mits on the keys to the lodge, but the Indies knew that the lying bastard couldn’t be trusted to run full term 👿

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Bacchus, her term of six years is coming to an end. Every politician has to complete to be re-endorsed.

No sacking.

In the end, it was the party that made the decision.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:59 pm

Tom., it was not Labor that did not support the poker bill. It was the Independents. They are not of the PM’s party.

Mr. Wilkie, himself, could not get the numbers.

Tom, you know that, as much as I do.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:01 pm

…and just ensure the correct context around Gillard’s commitment to having indigenous members of parliament.

Gillard intervened in a preselection to prevent an indigenous person becoming a senator. Prominent indigenous leader and former ALP National President Warren Mundine was to be appointed to fill the NSW casual vacancy, but Gillard intervened to stop this and appointed Carr. Her lack of commitment lead to Mundine resigning his membership.

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:03 pm

Mark, please excuse the impatience here at times because it does get somewhat frustrating attempting to provide factual information to people who read no further than the headlines at the Courier Mail or the Daily ‘graph.

All informed people would advise you of the same thing, that the poker machine legislation had the support of neither Windsor nor Oakeshott as especially Windsor expressed his concern about the impact on the revenue of country clubs. The government could therefore get the legislation through the Senate due to the support of the Greens, but could not get it through the House of Reps as it needed the vote of both Windsor and Oakeshott.

But of course the whole thing could now be law if Tony Abbott had chosen to support it.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:09 pm

Catching Up, have you read the full text of the agreement? I don’t believe it is possible to argue Gillard did what she promised.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:12 pm

Would everyone stop replying to this tom of melbourne rubbish. He just keeps repeating and making stuff up and it keeps coming through to my emails!

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:16 pm

Tom, what do you believe the PM should have done. Introduce leglistaion to the parliament, knowing it would be defeated.

Now that I must say, makes sense.

Not too sure, where defeated legislation stands on the books. if Abbott did succeed in bringing the PM down, and took over.

Could even be the beginnings of a DD bill.

The PM would have went ahead, if Mr. Wilkie delivered the numbers. He could not.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:18 pm

Tom, you not liking what the PM does, does not make the PM wrong.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:35 pm

Catching Up, Gillard won the support of Wilkie to become Prime Minister because of the written commitment she made to him. The agreement didn’t rely on Wilkie delivering anything.

It required the government to meet undertakings, and Gillard overstretched (to put it most kindly) in making commitments she could not deliver.

The written agreement committed the government to ‘acting unilaterally’. Gillard did not even attempt this.

Like it or not, Gillard broke the agreement that allowed her to form government.

…and I’ll leave it at that (for now)

That’s good, ToM. You’ve bashed the Wilkie issue to death (Miglo).

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:42 pm

In fairness to the issue of balance here, Miglo did offer to post something I wrote. Which is certainly very generous, and demonstrates a willingness to publish a range of opinions.

But I’ll decline at the moment, because it would involve too much care with facts and expression.

andyrobFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm

So you dont think MSM is biased in how the report political issues.

When do you see them positively reporting for the incumbent party. AAA rating financially, Lowest unemployment for HOW long, Lowest interest rates in HOW long. They may report the news but then go on to take the PM or government down. What the?

Between the LNP, super rich and the MSN, all I see happening is a case of DIVIDE AND RULE

Elements of this technique involve:

– creating or encouraging divisions among the subjects to prevent alliances that could challenge the sovereign
– aiding and promoting those who are willing to cooperate with the sovereign
fostering distrust and enmity between local rulers
– encouraging meaningless expenditures that reduce the capability for political and military spending

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

GlennFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:49 pm

As soon as I saw the choice of photo It told me this was going to be an extremely biased article.Look at the labour party scandals and broken promise’s at the moment.

All else in this article pales into insignificance and I dont vote liberal !

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:53 pm

I would say that Mr.Abbott has opened his mail. He has now sent his army out to defend him. Poor job they are doing.

Shock, horror, that a left wing site might put forward the views and opinions of the left wing.

Ken BrownFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:54 pm

Great work Victoria….spot on. Pity the bulk of Australians won’t get to read the view that doesn’t comply with that of Rinehart, Murdoch and the other vested interests. Tom, you are clueless as to the benefits of the NBN, especially for regional Australia, but for our Country’s future generally with technology and communications. Long term optical fibre to the home will be vital to the community and would be far further advanced without Howard’s sellout of Telstra. The cost of the NBN as budgeted to date is less than what the Howard Government stole from the telephone subscribers, so that his Government could finance Federal Government politicians and public servants superannuation.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:59 pm

reb, you certainly do not believe that we are here to push the views of the right,.

reb, I am sure you will point out if we moved from the facts.

All we are interested in is challenging the lies and misrepresentations from the right.

Where is the harm in that.

Yes, many do believe that the PM has done more good than bad. Of course, the PM like all other humans. is not perfect.

I do not believe we are bias. Just that we see things from a different angle.

That I believe is good for democracy.

JasonFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:04 pm

Glenn,
“Look at the labour party scandals and broken promise’s at the moment.”

If you wish to hang shit on LABOR at least get the spelling right Glen Glyn Glenn or however you spell it!

DashaFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:05 pm

Nothing wrong at all with a Labor supporting blog site like this.
But what Is deceptive is the title of Australian ” independent” media network.

Calling people with different views ” clowns”, ” idiots” etc just proves this point.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:21 pm

” I have edited a number of the comments for those who wish to view them.”

Which causes me to suggest that if you would prefer to see less of the opposing point of view you might encourage Catching Up to desist from suggesting that it was up to Wilkie to deliver anything – other than his vote to allow the ALP to form minority government.

He met his obligations under the written agreement and despite the baseless assertions to the contrary, Gillard didn’t meet hers.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm

Min. I have a very thick hide.

dafid1dFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:25 pm

katie my dear old thing, if you dont like it, you know where the door is, do close it behind you.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:29 pm

After all this post did challenge Mr. Abbott. One would have hoped that they used facts to defend him.

At least we are in no doubt of what we are up against.

Attacks which refuse to show the PM no leniency.

What I do not understand, is what they hope to achieve.

Cannot help but think, their problems are more than the differing politics.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:31 pm

“how the hell did I get on the so one sided page!”

That’s what I was thinking.

When I first came across the Australian Independent Media Network, I had great hopes that it might provide a relatively unbiased and objective view of politics as well as a relatively lucid forum for discussion of current affairs.

Clearly I mistook “independent” with “objective.”

The author of this post is perfectly entitled to express her views, regardless of how blatantly partisan they may be.

Done (Miglo).

It’s interesting to read through the comments above and to witness the level of vitriol directed towards anyone who either raises an issue with the partisan nature of the post or expresses an opposing view.

It’s ironic that the site professes to be “independent” but has effectively become an even nastier mirror image of the msm.

With this in mind, Migs, I think it’s probably best if you remove me as an author from the team.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:34 pm

“Because it is the view from the left. I find the same thing when I go to sites, that give the view from the right.

Thanks for clearing that up CU.

I had some crazy notion that AIMN might have been attempting to be a relatively unbiased, objective observation of politics.

Silly me.

Reb, if it’s to do with the topic, an alternate view is always welcome (Migs).

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:35 pm

Min, it seems I need it.

Tom, are you really demanding I not be allow to disagree with you.,

What I say. still stands.

The PM did what she could to get the votes.

Please tell me, how the PM could have got the Independent to change their minds.

If you can explain that to me, maybe I am wrong.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:37 pm

Attempted to post?

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:38 pm

“The agreement didn’t rely on Wilkie delivering anything.”

Correct. Although we’ve explained this to CU before, so there’s little point in explaining it again.

Some people only see what they want to see, and in this situation (like many others), the prevailing view is that “Julia Gillard should never be criticised”

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:46 pm

Reb you sure have, When is it going to get through your skull, I do not agree with you, as is my right.

Point out to me, how the PM could have got the legislation through.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Catching Up, this isn’t a difference of opinion. You are simply choosing to ignore the facts.

Gillard probably couldn’t deliver the independents. But that’s not the issue because – she committed to delivering the parliament or acting unilaterally.

She might have thought the issue would gain the momentum to press the independents or the Liberals. But it didn’t.

So Gillard made an agreement she wasn’t entitled to. As a result, she became Prime Minister.

…and don’t bother to say ‘she did all she could’…because that is not what the written commitment required of her.

JasonFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Reb,
Why does the PM have to agree with gay marriage? I’ve never understood the connection! The hard right of the coalition also disagree yet it’s only the PM who incurs your wrath!

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm

Tom and reb, I am not ignoring facts. Would it matter if I was,

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:51 pm

The PM incurs the wrath of some for one reason, and one reason only, The PM happens to be a woman.,

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:52 pm

ToM, I remember with respect your input on Migs’ topics concerning indigenous issues. I for one would welcome you as an author when time might allow.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:57 pm

I have edited a number of the comments for those who wish to view them.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:57 pm

There is only one fact of any importance, No matter what the PM did, the Wilkie legislation was not going to pass.

Mr. Wilkie did eventually support the amended legislation, which became law.

One cannot have their own facts, as you say.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:59 pm

One piece of legislation, out of how many hundreds the PM did manage to bring into law.

A little petty, one would think,

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:03 pm

Well reb, you may as well be one of his squad. No, I am not into tactics. I just write what I believe in. Try to ignore the hate that consumes some..

MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:04 pm

Sad isn’t it..one puts forward an opinion differing from group think MSM and what follows is the scream of “bias”. As stated previously, I speak from my own point of view but what does get my dander up is people who repeat what they’ve read on a Bolt blog and without question, take it as factual information. Here I give credit to Catching Up, her knowledge, her perseverance in attempting to provide factual information while confronted with quite substantial personal put downs is truly to be admired.

fredFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:04 pm

I can’t believe you are so naive to believe in the Global warming lie!!!

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:09 pm

”Why are all our topics being turned into discussions on Andrew Wilkie?”

It’s a simple explanation – Catching Up continually posts a comment that is factually incorrect and refuses to recognize that Gillard broke her word.

Catching Up continually blames Wilkie, when he did exactly what he committed to. Gillard didn’t.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:11 pm

Dasha, you came in here on the attack. You could have joined in the debate without denigrating the author.

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:13 pm

Bacchus once again we have to read grubby words like “ignorance” and “rubbish”‘ from left wing labor supporters becuase they have difficulty with anybody else that may have an opposing view. Crossin was sacked and there is no other way to describe her removal.

bushfirebillFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:21 pm

Amazing how right wing commenters expect left leaning sites to be fair and balanced, but don’t apply the same restrictions to their own sites.

Oh well, it was a good conversation until the trolls moved in to wreck it.

That’s what they do, of course.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:30 pm

Reb/ToM/Mark,

I’m sorry you don’t like it here. Please feel free to leave if that’s the case.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:33 pm

“At least we are in no doubt of what we are up against.”

Victimisation/persecution complex much?

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:36 pm

Just to provide a “veneer of balance” I’ve attempted to post some pointed criticism about Julia Gillard’s stance on marriage equality, asylum seekers, and her betrayal of Andrew Wilkie.

These are facts that stand alone and speak for themselves.

But apparently that’s not sufficiently anti-Abbott enough.

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:36 pm

Miglo not intention of leaving..someone needs to publish the actual facts and ensure there is a balanced discussion rather than bias commentary that has dominated the article right from the start.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:39 pm

So my crime is, I will not do as reb directs, believe what he tells me too.

I have a suggestion reb, go back and reread what you have written.,

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:41 pm

How many times do we have to explain it to you CU?

I have explained Gillard’s betrayal of Andrew Wilkie to you on at least two occasions in the past.

Tom has as well.

You just don’t like the FACTS when presented to you in detailed chronological order that Gillard lied to Wilkie and accordingly can’t be trusted. Her “word” means nothing.

But as usual, you seem incapable of comprehending a details that suggest that Gillard can’t be trusted, and backed up with support from the cheer squad here, you all cry “but what about Tony Abbott…!”

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Miglo, I’ve not said I don’t like it. I’ve said several times that I think this is a great endeavour.

But I also think it is inaccurate to suggest that the discussion is derailed by people who are simply seeking to point out the facts, and other contributors actually deny those facts.

On a balanced site some will point out the significant range of deficiencies in the Liberal Party and Abbott. I think each of the threads so far does this. Other contributors will identify some problems with the ALP and its leadership.

That’s balance.

Refraining from derogatory name calling is also helpful. Reference to opposing views as “trolls” just illustrates limited intellect.

You might consider correcting the name calling occasionally.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:47 pm

Mark, that’s fine. We just want the authors to be shown the decency of staying on topic.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:52 pm

“I do not agree with you, as is my right.”

For sure. You’re perfectly entitled to your own opinion CU.

You’re just not entitled to your own facts.

Sue B.February 9, 2013 at 9:53 pm

Agreed, Mark. Bias media is concerning.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:53 pm

“I am not ignoring facts. Would it matter if I was”

Obviously not to you.

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 8:55 pm

The PM’s personal views on marriage are her own, all of us have a right to our own ‘opinion’ regarding personal views, she did not stop her Party members voting on gay marriage, Abbott did/does! The asylum seekers issue is a huge beat up by Abbott and Murdoch dog whistling the lowest forms of life in society, racists! Any poker machine policy to help aussies from gambling their lives away was screwed by the Clubs vicious campaign to incite addicted patrons into thinking clubs actually cared about them, and to hate on the PM for caring, but in reality it was all about them and their billion dollar cash flow industry from ruining lives.. Wilkie rejected it all over one option being left out..the one dollar bet restriction..rather that start something to help those he ‘so called’ cared about, which could have lead to more help, (policy does not happen over night as Abbott tries to tell you) so he went running to the newz hounds crying foul to get his face on the news. All beat ups..nothing credible. It’s like listening to an ancient broken 78 record with Abbott’s cheer squad.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:56 pm

“The PM incurs the wrath of some for one reason, and one reason only, The PM happens to be a woman.,”

Link..?

Citation…?

Any remote skerrick of evidence to suggest that I’ve attacked Julia Gillard because she’s a woman…???

Or is this just another CU “look over there” tactic…

PaulFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Yes Dasha
It’s a bit like the Institute of Public Affairs. Apparently some of us are public and some of us are not -namely those who disagree with their political agenda. kind of ironic isn’t it?

MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Miglo show where I have gone off topic…

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:00 pm

“It’s like listening to an ancient broken 78 record with Abbott’s cheer squad.”

So I’m part of “Abbott’s cheer squad” now am I…?

This is what’s so predictable about the Gillard apologists from TPS and since this post from Victoria on this site; any criticism of Gillard must mean that therefore you are an Abbott supporter.

Sorry to break the news, but the world isn’t that simplistic.

But I guess some minds might struggle with that concept.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:05 pm

Why are all our topics being turned into discussions on Andrew Wilkie? Or should I say derailed, not turned?

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 9:10 pm

I take it Reb didn’t read the sexist hate filled rants I posted, taken from those charming Gillard Juliar FB HATE pages, those charmers.posting the same tired stories laced with hatred and sexism..Just as Abbott denies sexism in his party, so to do his supporters..even when you shove the evidence right in their faces they refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong!. Me..who me?? I don’t hate women..I just hate that bitch witch ranga big nose dyke destroying my country! Blinkers must be on sale at Bunnings.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:11 pm

Well like I said before, I had the impression that this was going to a be a site that at least attempted a semblance of “balance.”

But it’s clear from the TPS rent-a-crowd and CU’s unchallenged declaration that it’s a left-wing blog that I was clearly mis-guided.

Pity really.

I hate Abbott just as much as the next reasonably intelligent person, however what I’m not prepared to do is simply overlook Gillard’s duplicity, like so many here are prepared to do.

And yet Min talks about “groupthink” …

Remarkable.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:13 pm

“I take it Reb didn’t read the sexist hate filled rants I posted.”

Correct. And by the sounds of things it doesn’t sound like I missed much.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:13 pm

FFS The barbarians have taken over the place. As they do. The loudmouths, the arguers, the whingers, the distractors and red herring agenda setters. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Why listen? Will the moderator give them what the big children need – the a, the big A, and make us all feel better.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:13 pm

“Catching Up continually posts a comment that is factually incorrect and refuses to recognize that Gillard broke her word.”

Bingo.

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 9:29 pm

Nasty fictional character trolls are all over the PM’s page..The PM allows them to stay, only when they become violent they get banned but will come back within minutes under another fake account, with a vindictive handle and a photo of the PM with a moustache or an ugly photo of a woman. They even take people’s identity profiles plus their photo and post vile comments under the stolen identities name..On Abbott’s FB page you only have to ask him a question about his policies and admin has you banned..the whole page is filled with adoring sycophants only..if you don’t idolize him you get booted.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:29 pm

So is this place meant to be Cafe Whispers II or The Political Sword II, or a combination of the two…??

(Just wondering)

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:35 pm

Gee, Fred, I can’t believe you’re so ignorant as to doubt more than 150 years of scientific research & instead believe a bunch of vested interests who claim Global Warming isn’t happening, simply because dealing with it will hurt the profits of those who put money in their pockets (like Monckton, Bolt, Murdoch, the IPA-or did you really believe they make these comments for free?) Hope you’ve got your tin-foil hat handy.

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:36 pm

I’ve long suspected that reb was nothing but a closet Abbott Adorer. Dislike Gillard & Labor all you like, but please at least give us *one* thing in that letter to Abbott that was *factually incorrect*. I doubt you’ll be able to, as you Lunar Right folks are all talk, zero facts!

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:43 pm

Hi Victoria. Great comeback to ToM.

I apologise that some people have been intent into derailing your topic topic to suit their own agenda. I would be more than happy to have their future comments blocked.

MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:43 pm

“Catching Up continually blames Wilkie, when he did exactly what he committed to. Gillard didn’t.” Actually Tom, according to Tony Windsor, Wilkie did absolutely *nothing*, & sat on his bum letting Gillard & her government do all the hard work in relation to the Gambling Reform Legislation. At the end of the day, though, the other Independents refused to support the Wilkie Bill in it’s entirety, instead demanding the trial that was suggested in the Productivity Commission Report (as you’d know, if you weren’t a mealy mouthed Abbott Apologist). Yet Wilkie made *no* attempt to try & win the other Independents over to his way of thinking on the issue of poker machine reform. Meanwhile, though, Abbott & his cohort have made it very clear that there will be *no* changes to poker machines on their watch, because they get a lot of their funding from the Gambling Industry.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:44 pm

“I’m sorry you don’t like it here. Please feel free to leave if that’s the case.”

I’m just trying to figure out what is meant by the title Migs: “Australian Independant Media Network”….?

When I heard you were setting this place up, I was interested to be a part because I thought it would be balanced and provide an alternative to the right-wing partisan MSM.

However it seems (as evidenced by the comments on this thread) that it is purely a Gillard/Labor government loyal partisan site.

For the benefit of others, I think you really ought to state so in the “About Us” section or Disclaimer, just so that other people don’t get the wrong idea that this is a balanced site.

And to respond to your statement that “I can leave if I don’t like it,” – I did like it here when I thought it would be “balanced” however it’s clear that it’s anything but.

(Just saying)

mummsyFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:48 pm

Do any of you remember the interview where Abbott admitted to the public not to believe anything he says..as he will say exactly what you want to here whether he believes it all not..he admitted that he lies on public TV interview…my be he thinks this would win him votes by being honest…well he’s meaning of the word honest…I will never vote for a weak person especially when he decided to drag his wife out as a puppet to repeat what he had already said. But this back fired as all you had to do was look at her face and eyes to know she didn’t believe a word she was saying…I think what should happen is a televised interview with both parties talking to an independent therapist.. Then make a decision on the therapist impressions

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:50 pm

Reb/ToM, authors have been free to write about any topic they want. There is nothing to stop them write about something that is a right-wing view.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

I don’t see this site as innately ALP, it is simply that there are a number of people here who disdain legitimate criticism of the government.

Avoidance of insults and name calling helps keep things orderly, but some are happy just to dumb it down- unable to reply rationally.
======
Thanks for the reply Victoria. I think the purpose of a political blog is to test positions, policies and ideas.

That’s my approach anyway.

I’m not sure why this makes it necessary for me (specifically) to stop blogging as Tom of Melbourne.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:55 pm

“There is nothing to stop them write about something that is a right-wing view.”

That’s a nice idea in theory Migs, but somehow I doubt you’ll see many takers…

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:57 pm

Besides, my politics haven’t changed. I’ve always been centre-left (which amuses me when people here suggest I’m part of the “Abbott cheer squad”).

It’s Gillard who’s moved to the right.

To suggest that Labor is still a “left-wing” party is frankly laughable.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:57 pm

@Miglo I don’t see the reasoning in allowing the trolls in to derail the topic. Their agenda is only distraction and distortion. Their nasty chiding is designed to have an effect on the author and others who want to make comments.
Democracy has rules to protect itself from the barbarians.
regards

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Indeed Sue and Mark….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:00 pm

By the way .. well said Marcus .. facts win every time.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:05 pm

Marcus, you appear not to have you read the agreement Gillard and Wilkie signed. Wilkie met his written commitments.

It seems that some people prefer to talk about the commitments that (perhaps) should have been exchanged, rather than the ones that actually were.

Now – I’m entirely willing to leave the discussion on Wilkie at that, unless someone shows an interest in continuing.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:06 pm

Hi Miglo. Well said and you’re dead right. Victoria is writing too well to be held back by immature 15 year olds.
regards 😉

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:13 pm

Though Miglo this story by Victoria deserves a lot more respect. Can’t you just block them and their silly hijacking nonsense? I mean who’s gonna miss it? It’s just trolls and their verbal meanderings … I’d call it diarrhea if I could spell it.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:15 pm

@teddysea…

I rest my case.. 🙄

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:19 pm

reb, the problem is that your bias against PMJG is perfectly fine, balanced and justified, but any bias in favour of PMJG is misplaced and irrelevant.

You are every bit as biased as you accuse others of being.

The truth is that if Abbott had fooled the Indies into letting him take the reins of government, he would have reneged on every deal that didn’t suit him and tried to force a DD, which is BTW what he intends to do if he wins the next election and can’t get his way.

And for those who have conveniently forgotten, he deposed/stabbed Turnbull so that he could renege on the deal made with Rudd, in his nobel (?) pursuit of personal ambition.

Then went on to destroy the man who’s vote was instrumental in him gaining LOTO, the man he called friend 😆

Independent does not necessarily mean walking the middle ground, as there have been many references to right leaning independents in the makeup of this minority Government, so my understanding of Independent in the title of this site relates to being independent of the right wing moguls who dictate what we should and shouldn’t be told ie; facts, truth etc. 😀

Independent does not preclude a right or left leaning 😯

Just sayin’

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:20 pm

Teddysea, why block them while they’re making fools of themselves?

It may come as a surprise to you, but reb has his own blog where he can blow off. I don’t see anybody from here running over to tell him how to run it or what to post about.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:25 pm

True Miglo true. They are making fools of themselves. Over and over. Repetitive foolishness. And reb has his own blog?! Hmmmph. I guess he’s not getting enough attention over there lol!

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:27 pm

So true mischmash. WOMD! The LNP should wear that mantle with shame.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:27 pm

What continually amazes me it that people with strong political opinions don’t want them debated.

Back in the days when I took a more active interest, it was always the challenge and debate that was stimulating.

I don’t get people -who say they’re interested in politics, and comment on it, but don’t enjoy or appreciate politial challenge.

Odd indeed.

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:28 pm

Teddysea, I just went and had a look at his blog. He’s having a wow of a time running this place and some of our contributors down. To me this confirms that his only intention to come here was definitely to disrupt.

JasonFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:29 pm

Miglo,
Doyou know which one of his multiple personality’s is doing the posting tonight?

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:30 pm

“If you don’t like it you can leave”

Sounds like a meeting of the Young Liberals don’t it…?”

LOL! 🙂

Victoria RollisonFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:33 pm

ToM, I would welcome a post in response to my letter. And you can put your full name at the bottom of it. Like someone who’s proud to tell the world who they really are.

Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:40 pm

Maybe we can get back to the very good post. I do hope not too many have been frightened away.

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:45 pm

Silly bugger with his cheap and nasties. In the absence of a couple of big maori fellas to escort them down the stairs I’d just block the troublemakers at the front door Miglo. 😉

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:46 pm

“I’ve long suspected that reb was nothing but a closet Abbott Adorer”

An Abbott “adorer” now is it…?

Let me add that to the list… 🙄

Based on what exactly?

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:48 pm

It’s clear from the comments on this thread that this site is a closed shop for Gillard worshippers and anyone else with a slightly alternative view is not welcome…

teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:48 pm

Miglo you’re doing a great job! And well written Victoria. 🙂
… and I’m hitting the sack.

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:49 pm

Victoria, before they could put a full name on it they would have to decide which ToM was going to write it! 😀
I would venture to suggest that the election would be over before that would happen 😀

Keep up the good work 😎

Cheers 😀

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

Come on reb, give it a break.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

Am I wrong…….??

MargFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:58 pm

Well said Victoria – and here is why I don’t I like Tony Abbott. Let me count the ways! Because he cares nothing for the Australian people only for his own ego; because he would stoop to anything to become PM; because he has no integrity, admitting that much of what he says is not ‘gospel truth’; because he puts his wealthy party-donor mates ahead of the needs of working people; because he claims to be a christian but his actions are most un-christian, especially towards asylum seekers; because he refuses to answer questions at interviews, he merely trots out statements prepared by Peta Credlin; because he lies about the impact of the carbon tax; because he talks down one of the best performing economies in the world to gain some mileage for himself; because he lies about his knowledge of the Ashby conspiracy against Slipper -‘no specific knowledge??’; because he wastes time in Parliament throwing mud at the PM instead of getting on with debating legislation; because he spends his time performing stunts for the media instead of working for his constituents; and because it doesn’t matter how many daughters he has he is still a chauvinist and can’t accept the fact that he was ‘beaten by a girl’.

And why is it that the anti Gillard people such as those on the “Gillard is the worst PM’ site can only write vulgar obcenities and abuse? They put up no rational argument about policy at all. They all sound very uneducated and ignorant. Fortunately they are simply a loud minority.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:00 pm

“Hi Victoria. Great comeback to ToM.”

Bias showing much Migs….?

MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:00 pm

Hi teddysea, I guess it’s best to just ignore them, as I will now do. I’m convinced their only intention is to disrupt, however, their continual squealing only makes themselves look childish.

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:04 pm

“ontinual squealing”

Is that what we call differing opinions these days?

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:06 pm

It appears that the only dissenting points that are valid and should be allowed are those of the right, sounds like a variation on Abbotts born to rule mentality…. They are right and the rest, including experts don’t know what they’re talking about 🙁

Very balanced 😯

rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:09 pm

Meh, what I find fascinating is that this site has quickly become a mirror image of everything they hate about the msm…

Lies, distortion of the truth, and unapologetic loyalty to the party of their choice…

Not to mention, the palpable hatred towards anyone who dare disagree..!

The irony and the hypocrisy is simply extraordinary…

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 11:18 pm

They keep going on about the PM lying..This is a load of Alan Jones shock jock slander to help the neo cons deceive their way in to power..Alan will do anything for the Lib/Cons..anything! ..The big lie campaign is a joke. The carbon tax hysteria has already been proven a joke, the channel gina 10 youtube of the PM saying there will be no blah blah..was CUT by them, faling to leave out what the PM said in the next sentence, that she would have an ETS if she was PM, they fraudulently cut out the ending and kept playing it over and over again till the minions were brainwashed with a lie from them, NOT the PM!.Howard wanted a carbon tax, Tony wanted a carbon tax, both on record..the PM has given us as she said she would..an ETS! What dirty players channel gina are!…Tony is a liar..and the biggest most obscene LIE by a PM was Howards LIE about WOMD!! Bush even gave the little man a medal for sticking to the script and sending us to an illegal war! There’s NO comparison to that big LIE, that big lie cost the lives of thousands of innocent people….and he got away with it scott free..Children overboard anyone?

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:29 pm

Migs, and would it do us any good if we tried? 😀

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:35 pm

Migs, so he’s taken his bat and ball and gone home…..what a shame 😀

Did that come across as insincere? 😳

Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:54 pm

The irony and the hypocrisy is simply extraordinary… and now it’s gone back where it belongs 😀

Night all 🙂 😀 😆

mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 11:55 pm

The original very good post by Victoria made my day,..now I’m off to watch Gorillas in the Mist….gorillas make way more sense to me than Tony or any of his boys ever have or ever will..Again..thank you Victoria for a great letter expressing exactly what so many of us feel…One letter from a concerned woman gets so much dummy spitting from the big sooks, yet every day of the week we have to listen/read the worst slanderous biased media this counrty has ever seen. I have a new name for them..’Sooks Are Us’.

Cap'n TimFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:05 am

Excellent article Victoria. Leave the ‘troll’ replies in… I love it when they give themselves away.
They can rarely spell properly.
The grammar is generally dreadful.
They invariably spell ‘Labor’ party as Labour.
Their facebook pages usually indicate they stopped thei education at Year 9 or 10. They seem to like pit bull bogs, neo nazi sites, and disturbingly, seem to love the existing Australian flag.
But the dead giveaway is their ‘trump card’ Juliar. this is really the best they can do. Thank Alan Jones for this old chestnut. (If they really had any idea what Mr. Jones really got up to in his private life they would be very, very angry)
Malcolm Turnbull, by the way, evidently has shares in a telecommunications Company in France. They are installing fibre to the home, the very technology he appears to oppose.

el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:38 am

Victoria’s article is clearly biased (not that there is anything wrong with that) but what you need is a post by Reb or Treeman to get a different perspective.

This idea has merit because it offers the crowd from TPS and Cafe a chance to criticise the author and force them to defend their position. This should solve the problem.

el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:28 am

I haven’t given up on Migs, but if he continues to only have blatant leftwing biased posts then the site is no better than the Bolter’s rightwing diatribe.

What is required is a balance of posts so that the blog is robust and attracts a huge audience. A place where ordinary people, who have no particular interest in the politics, need to hear people arguing the toss so that they can form an opinion of their own.

Failing to grasp this simple concept is a fair indication that AIMN is going nowhere fast.

Truth SeekerFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:03 am

el dildo, do keep up, reb took his bat and ball and went home 😥

Cheers 😀

el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 9:37 am

Its all one way traffic, so people with alternative views are ‘trolls’. Now if Treeman could put up a guest post the world would turn upside down.

The 5th Estate cannot hope to emulate the MSM in news, but they can certainly outflank them with opinion.

‘I would consider that this could be considered a personal attack. As such, personal attacks are specifically not tolerated on this blog.’

Unless its mindless leftards doing the abusing.

MinFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:43 am

El gordo, how can anyone write anything except from one’s own perspective. In a mature debate you accept that the other person or persons have a different opinion, point out errors of fact and any erroneous conclusions drawn due to these errors of fact. However, to accuse an author of “bias” just because of expressing an opinion differing from one’s own is wrong, and I would consider that this could be considered a personal attack. As such, personal attacks are specifically not tolerated on this blog.

andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:00 am

Blah blah blah. You just dont know when to to give up el gorgo, what min said and others is exactly right.

If you want to rebut, do it with some facts to back up your claims not just outright attacks. Most here, if not all, would love to hear your factual claims and that has been said countless times but you are just not listening.

and yes Turnbull has bought shares in a FTTH project in France http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/23/turnbull-in-conflict-of-interest-investment/

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:11 am

The threads here start with well written, thought provoking leads that have a pro ALP (as distinct from ‘left’) orientation. I think that’s fine – Miglo has said he is open to publishing other perspectives too.

I think problems occur when-
*Contributors call those that take issue with the author- ‘trolls’, and rarely bother to propose any rational analysis of the issue.
*Blog owners implore contributors to ignore alternative perspectives
*People simply argue on a partisan basis -particularly when contrary to actual, documented facts and events.

I always say that those that resort to name calling simply provide evidence that they have lost the debate.

This deserves to be a diverse and successful blog, the quality of the writers should help. But some of the indulgent comments won’t.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:32 am

Maybe Miglo, but (personally) I think I’ve been called a ‘troll’ here about a dozen or more times.

Those that use the term have not even attempted to reply with any rationality. It is actually those people who come here with the specific intention to disrupt the (reasonably) orderly political discourse that would otherwise occur.

Because they tend to be ALP supporters, they don’t appear to attract any opprobrium from authors or owners.

el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:40 am

‘…all I’ve noticed is that you condem/complain about the sites that don’t follow your ideals.’

Reb’s left of centre and I’ve always been further left than that, so I gravitate to left wing blogs.

My criticisms of the cafe are well founded, its a chat room.

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:18 am

El gordo, in the two years I’ve seen you around the Internet all I’ve noticed is that you condem/complain about the sites that don’t follow your ideals. You do your best to run down those sites before running back to reb’s site to brag about your behaviour. You there complain that all the sites you condemn are “all the same” yet it is you that is turning them into sites like that.

Please stick to the sites you like, such as those that are anti-Labor, anti-progress, or those in complete denial of the possibility of climate change.

If your only intention for coming here is to vent the same old complaints, then don’t bother.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 11:19 am

Miglo, I don’t read every comment on this site, so I can only base my opinion on those directed to me, and I think there are several ALP oriented people (quite distinct from “left”) who have the sole intention of disrupting reasonable exchanges.

I don’t know whether their behaviour is better or worse than el gorrdo’s, but I can’t really figure out why el gordo would be specifically singled out.

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:23 am

ToM, I would like to see the term “troll” absent as well, however, it is difficult when people such as el gordo only exhibit trollish behaviour. Perhaps we’d be better off if both the term and the behaviour were avoided.

The behaviour comes before the response. The action comes before the reaction.

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:34 am

ToM, do you condone el gordo’s behaviour?

730reportlandFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:42 am

” What is required is a balance of posts so that the blog is robust and attracts a huge audience. A place where ordinary people, who have no particular interest in the politics, need to hear people arguing the toss so that they can form an opinion of their own. “
You`re so full of bullshit gordo. When right-wing teabags last spouted this type of crap at reb`s (several-posts-back) l asked the teabags `Where their blog is?` to see if they had anything substantial to say, instead of interjecting with their snippets of bullshit. You would guess correctly Miglo, if you thought they died in the arse and went silent on the matter.

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:50 am

Thank you 7:30. It’s good to know I’m not alone.

I’ve seen enough of el gordo’s behaviour to know exactly what her intentions are. I’ve now decided that all of her comments will be held in moderation from this point on. If she is not willing to intelligently debate the topic, then her comments won’t pass moderation.

andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 12:15 pm

I have to agree mig, I just had a quick run back over the original post and can honestly say that el gordo came in commenting about none of the content, just came in with fists flying with comments about “Julia” or “Gillard” etc but completely missed any of the points that were raised (and brilliantly raised I say, MSM take note PLEASE).

Now as for the accusations of lyes etc, The GST was introduced and we are living and surviving well now with it. But those guys seem to forget one of the biggest lyes ever made, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixn9fFatdcs . So we are to believe anything the current LOTO says as gospel. He has no policies at all, just empty retorick and untruths that the MSM pick up on and plaster all over the front pages and on TV commentary. Throw enough mud and it will stick seems to be the only policy they have.

All I ask is they also follow the line of Truth in Politics that Turnbull espouses http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=2673

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 11:23 am

El gordo has history, ToM. Surely you’ve noticed it.

daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm

why dont you do your homework a Labor supporter i suppose you would not know the truth if it hit you in the face. I believe Policies will be revealed in due course and not when you rednecks want them to be so you can steal them. i cannot wait for the truth to come out about all the scandals involved with this government.

andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:11 pm

Truth!!! Ha #ashbygate, WOMD, GST, babies overboard, FTTN is a better way to go (Turnbull et al), global warming is crap to name a few.

Truth is, and well documented, Lowest interest rates in how long, lowest unemployment in how long, best economy in the world, tripling of the tax free threshold (I presume you dont want that) therefore lower TAXES, pensioners finally getting a better pay.

Defecit, well sometimes that is how one has to live. If you have a mortgage,car, boat, second car etc and you are paying them off, that is also a deficit. can you afford to pay them off, well yes other wise you wouldn’t have them. will you pay them off, absolutely, that is the goal. that is the goal of any goverment but it should not be to the determent of the masses, which it appears will happen if LNP get in.

We are managing quite comfortably obviously, other wise we woudn’t have the conditions mentioned in the second para above.

Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:26 pm

“El gordo has history, ToM. Surely you’ve noticed it.”

I think it’s fair to say that there are a few people with “history”, and (in my opinion and experience) such characterisations are usually very flawed.

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm

Daphne, do you honestly believe that the Coalition are holding back on their policies so Labor won’t steal them?

Have you not noticed the hundreds of pieces of legislation that have been passed during the term of this Parliament?

It is my own guess that the Opposition have yet to come up with any policies, other than to destroy what has already been built.

zwetschgenFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:57 pm

as a first time visitor to this blog, one is sadened that the escence of Victoria’s post has been lost midst an insult battle of opposing experts. perhaps time to stand back and read the article for its facts, imagined or otherwise, give it some open minded thought and then post sensible considered comments. It’s ok to have an opposing opinion, but no need for a battle to post the most ridiculous commentry

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 3:22 pm

Well said, zwetschgen.

daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm

yes i do believe that the coalition will reveal their policies when we get close to the election. Go back to when the Government first took power they were two billion in the black comes the global crash thank god we were in the black this so called Treasurer rushed through school bats where a couple of people died i think it was run by by Garrett, computers to everybody in schools which was abondoned $8oo given to single people i banked mine . School renovations which were dodgy Medicare Chronic Dental sc heme (mcdds) closed down. The new labor (cdhp) will be inferior to the existing scheme i can name many more stuff ups and as far as us pensioners are concerned we are worse off now than we were with the Coalition they also took the $500 off us so we really are receiving a pittance why not give to our own people instead trying to be big wigs overseas. You might be living quite well but i can assure you i am not and i do not drink or smoke. Sure they have got pieces of legislation through which ones are good . If we ever get connected to the new cable i will n ot be able to afford it so there goes my only pleasure. I believe that this Treasurer could not run a pig sty, he cannot even get close to his budget estimates so how could you say what reform you are going to make until you see the figures. O and so sorry if the spelling is not 100% we cant be smart like some people as they seem to think when you belittle people for not being able to spell you are the pits.

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 6:46 pm

Funny thing. Since that dental scheme has closed down. I have still has access top necessary treatment.

This is one pensioner that is definitely better off.

The computerisation of schools was much more than laptops. Suggest you visit a local classroom. Start with kindergarten.

Ask the teacher in the room, what they consider waste.

Yes, the laptops are coming to an end. Now we have the school kids bonus, which is one of the first thing on Abbott’s cut list.

teddyseaFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:27 pm

By a careful calculation of the phrasing .. and recognition of repetitive sentences and ideas .. I have deducted the el gordo is reb is tom of melbourne.
Even if he’s not .. what a waste your time.

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:35 pm

misch, mine was at Wyong Hospital. Would have love to have got back to Westmead, which I have attended over the years. Nothing but praise.

Did used that expensive scheme. Susrpise that I was eligible, as I have no ongoing disease.

The trouble was they were only able to remove one of my few teeth I have left and a minor filling. Took one sitting. Welll at least, I had clean teeth.

They refuse to take on what I really needed, a new plate. This is because I have a severe cleft palate,

That is why I wanted to get back to Westmead. Thirty years ago, they made me one of the best fitting plates I ever had. No suck luck with private dentist.

Yes, back to the dental hospital for the essential new plate.

Yes, got a good one, then was stupid enought to lose over forty kilos, leading to my new plate no longer fitting. Relined a few days before Christmas. The problem is not as goos a fit. I have a choice3. Put the weight back on, or put up with a loose plare. Afraid I will be putting up with this palte.

That is life.

Also, my son, out of work, managed to get dental treatment at short notice.

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:39 pm

As for the cost of linking up to NBN, have not seen any price list that are beyond most today. On this one, I would check, before believing everything that is said in the MSM or by the Opposition. Generally found to be incorrect.

daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:07 pm

how dare you say that i listen to Alan Jones i am quite capable of making up my own mind i have not only worked for Sir Arthur Fadden but also i worked for the Waterside Workers Union Office and Chooky Oliver was the Secretary I do not know if he is related to David Oliver of the A.C.T.U I can only say that this Union treated me like a lady not like the Federated Clerks Union who i think your Senate Rep was in charge at the time. Sadly i am not in the know like many of you on this panel who just want to push your labor agenda i am afraid i could not vote for this disfunctional government and after all the sordid affairs which have come out with Obeid, Thomson, Slipper etc i do not know how anybody could defend them. I watch Q uestion time in the Parliament and the Government never answer a question but defile people in the Opposition. I have handled wages you name it and the Unions will not give Employers a fair go they continually come onto the job site and disrupt the workings of the employers. For our country to survive we need to have small business as well as large working for us all we have is coal, gas and iron ore and if you are so smart tell me how many companies have gone bust since this Government came into power. If you are doing well on the pension please tell me how you do it are you living on love.

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:13 pm

daphne, are you trying to create an argument. If not, why so defensive, there is no need to be so on these sites.

As for spelling mistakes, most here do not judge.

Relaxed and I believe your opinions will be respected, if not agreed with.

Hope you have a happy stay.

mischmash1February 10, 2013 at 7:19 pm

Me too catching up..I’ve had great free dental treatment at Westmead..more than ever! Since Julia stopped Howards hand out to his rich mates on his ridiculous dental plan for rich people at the expense of us! I hope my treatment all gets finished before the election in case Mr Rich gets lifted on to his throne by his billionaire mates..He’ll wipe everything out for pensioners..Bronny Bishop said on Gina 10 that the pensioners rise, the biggest one ever by the great Labor Gvt will be clawed back by Abbott..He’ll take it all back and pay back his rich mates with the tax cuts they want..just like Johnny did.:( Terrifying prospect for the working class and pensioners..Daphne is saying all the lying stuff Alan Jones says..Oh dear…that’s sad…she has no idea what Abbott will do to her..no idea..Jones is such a consumate fear monger.:(

DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm

daphne, Peter Slipper was a Liberal MP who went independant, not a member of the Labor party. The case was thrown out of court by the Judge who saw no evidence of sexual harassment and decided it was a blatent case of using the court system to try and ruin Slipper’s career and brind down the government. Why hasn’t the MSM questioned TA on his letter to Ashby saying that Ashby “wouldn’t be out of pocket” in persuing the Slipper harasment? Sounds obvious to me, but why has no one questioned him?
You can seriously say you listen to question time and not notice every question from the Coalition is some form of attack on the Prime minister? How many months did virtually all questions relate to the AWU? In opposition, most parties put foward their own policies and with a bit of give and take between parties some of these go through? What has Tony done but say no to everything and not bring anything to the table himself?
As for not listening to Jones, you are doing a marvelous job of parroting the likes of him and Bolte. How could you look at the facts and come up with their arguments when theirs are such obvious distortions on the facts?

daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:24 pm

you think i am not being respectful go back and have a look at the remarks and there was a remark made about spelling and english catching up i dont care if you respect my opinions or not. i am not judging but stating the truth and its alright for you labor supporters to defile so if my remarks are not printed what does that say you dont have to respond

DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm

I think before stating “the truth” you should do more research to find “the truth”. The statements made by you are what has be presented as “the truth” byt Abbott, Jones, Bolte and their ilk. I letter further searching shows most of those “truths” to be distortions if not outright lies.

mischmash1February 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm

Hey Daphne – the chronic dental scheme for genuine low income working people and pensioners is running well..The only part closed down was the Howard dental scheme for the rich which stopped thousands of aussies getting treatment because it was costing millions a month to give rich people free dental…you really need to turn off Jones..that man is a shocking liar..and he’s also been arrested for sex offences loitering around a men’s toilet looking for gratification..he got nabbed by a plain clothes cop..Hardly a beacon of light and truth when he’s also paid by billionaires to scare the pants off you and tell shocking lies…NOT working for the working aussies, just his bank balance.. turn him off..you are talking rubbish when you parrot lies from alan jones the toilet loiterer..

DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:31 pm

How did these comments ever get so far off the topic of the article?
The article is about Tony Abbott and how most of what he does and says seems to have one goal, getting elected, and very little to do with improving things for this country other than making the already rich, richer.
It does not mention Gillard, or the Labor party, it is a letter to Abbott, about Abbott.

daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:35 pm

Hi Darren i realise that Peter Slipper was a member for the Coalition but he has not been for a long time i believe there is more to come o n the Ashby case as well as the Cab Charge and the P.M. put him in as Speaker to shore up her nos in Parliament and i also think there is a lot more to come about with the A.W.U. and the P.M. you cannot watch the same question time that i do as i just wish the Government would answer the question and if you recorded the speeches it would be quite evident who casts vile remarks as i have said i do not listen to Tony Jones, Bolt or whoever but i do read. I would love to see a new party take off who could manage the country well give us more faith in politicans and i do believe that if the Labor party gets back in we will be a banana republic hope not.

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:48 pm

daphne, I am sorry that has happened.

Our problem is that we are becoming a little sick of people coming here for one reason only to attack.

I do not doubt, what you say, you believe to be the truth. The problem is that others. including myself do not see what you say ion the same light.

You have come across as a little aggressive and defensive. I am just trying to see if we can get past that, and make your stay enjoyable, even if you disagree with most of what we say.

I, for one, do like hearing what all have to say, and their reasons for believing so.

It is not them and us. We all live in the same community. The problem is that we all want different things.

Yes. I do live comfortably on the pension. This is I believe is because I own my very modest home. It is definitely not because I am a good money manager. The opposite is true.

I am also lucky to enjoy good health. I am not rolling in money, do live week to week, but then I have always lived this way, getting through one way or another.

Lets try to exchange thoughts, not insults. I would advise others to at least wait until the insults start flying.

Lets leave the attack dog mode as a last resort. Lets listen, so we can attempt to find out why so many appear to hate this PM and government. I, for one rally want to know the answer to that.

I am curious was the public perception of politics today, has nothing to do with the reality of our daily lives.

Why so many believe this government is the worse in history, while we reside in one of the best economies in the western world.

So much seems to be disconnect and simply does not compute.

I for one, would like to listen to daphne, to see if she can give us some insights from were she is coming from.

DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:50 pm

Peter Slipper was also recommended by the Coalition also and was a close personal friend of Abbott’s. Hey, he may have had some cab charge rortes, I have no idea. As for the “more to come” on Ashby, that is word for word from The Australian. Why is Labor souly responsible for anything he has done? I wonder how vaige “more to come” lines outweighs the Judge on the case?
A lot more about AWU… nothing more for Abbott to answer on the one nation slush fund he had nothing to do with then admitted he did? My my, what selective picking of subject matter. And given the article is about Abbott quite the strawman. Gillard could be Jack the ripper and it doesn’t make any difference to what was said in the article. If Gillard is bad does that make Abbott good?
I would like to see a new party too, I think the entire bunch of MP and their parties as having too many vested interest other than what they should be doing, that is the best they can for the country as a whole whether they are in the current government or opposition. People elected them to represent THEM, not play political games.
You have your views on Labor. I for one normally vote Liberal, but I can’t this year, not with Abbott as leader. It is not just what I have read (outside the MSM, as they don’t cover anything bad about him) but every word he utters. I am a listener, I sit back and watch and listen and see what people say and their body language and look beyond the words and “personna” they try to project. Every fibre of my being says self interested, narcotistic, sociopath when I listen to Abbott.
With Gillard, hey I am not a fan, she should be stronger, she is getting their but bows to popular opinion too much. I respected Howard in that respect, a bit of a fuddy duddy, a tight wad, let Australian infrastructure run down, but I respected him for sticking to his guns against popular opinion. Keating too, I respect what he says of Abbott. If he gets in “God help us”, because I don’t feel he gives a toss about the average Australian, he cares about himself and that’s all.

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:51 pm

Yes, daphne, I would love to hear some of your answers to issues raised in the letter.

BacchusFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm

daphne should recheck her pension figures too! $500 taken off you? It was $500 that wasn’t part of any pension scheme – it was purely largess handed out each year by little Johnny, hoping for exactly the result he’s got from you – mindless gratitude 🙄

Meanwhile the Labor government introduced the first real increase in pensions for many years.

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/our-responsibilities/seniors/benefits-payments/australian-pensions-have-changed

teddyseaFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:59 pm

Fellas I know you are just playing with the troll but really I think daphne has other sites to try to disrupt. Let him go.

Crash SkepticFebruary 10, 2013 at 9:37 pm

CU wrote: “Our problem is that we are becoming a little sick of people coming here for one reason only to attack.”

Who is “We”? I thought this was the “independent” media network?

But we both know:
– Every. Single. Article. Here. Is. From. The. Left.
– And so are 90% of the commenters.
– And there is a subset of commenters who regard “the expressing of a conservative or right-wing opinion” as automatically being illegitmate.

So are we tacitly acknowledging that is a just another Tony Abbott hatefest? (like a hundred sites before it.)

PS – I do recall the other day you made extremely personal and unsubstantiated allegations that Tony Abbott forced a girlfriend to adopt a child out and abandoned her (in complete contradiction to all statements the woman has ever made publicly). And then you got the date of him entering a seminary wrong by… oh just 7 years.

So with respect, whilst accusing other possters of an aggressive style (and you may be right), but you could do with a little self-reflection yourself on what is fair-play in debate.

“Why so many believe this government is the worse in history, while we reside in one of the best economies in the western world.

So much seems to be disconnect and simply does not compute.

No disconnect, CU. It’s just enough of the population has a long-term memory and knows that the “best economy” was created by the previous administrations and has absolutely nothing to do with Gillard and Rudd (and yes, I give due credit to the reformist years of Bob Hawke).

I give no more credit to Gillard “inheriting a good economy”, that I suspect you would to Gina Rinehart for “inheriting a mining fortune.”

(Although I would note Rinehart took a $75 million inheritance and turned into $20 billion. While Rudd/Gillard took 12 surpluses in a row, and turned it into 5 deficits in a row, and in the process tripled our national government debt.)

Click on this graph from the IMF to demonstrate exactly how much they’ve spent over the last 5 years:
http://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=k3s92bru78li6_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ggxwdg_ngdp&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=world&idim=country%3AAU&ifdim=world&tstart=756478800000&tend=1356094800000&hl=en&ind=false

Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Sorry crash, I keep forgetting that one must not say we, but I or some of us, Sorry for my mistake. I did really think that all of us would want the insults to stop. How arrogant of me.

Am I forgiven. I am now in trouble for trying to keep the peace. We, sorry some of us cannot have that.

As for the rest. I cannot even be bothered reading.

Independent means, I believe, not connected to the MSM media, which seem to be controlled by one man.

There are independents productions from all sides of the political; fence,

Independence from my point of view has nothing to do with being either left or right wing,

I have seen no evidence that you have been prevented from voicing your view.

it appears that it is only those from the left, that do not have this right.

No one has stopped you from challenging left wing views. What is your gripe.

Listening to QW and A the other night, many of the young contributors seem to believe there is. I definitely do.

Because you say so, does not make it so. It only brings home to me, you are one that the disconnect assist.

There is nothing wrong with my long term memory. It goes back much further than yours.

I believe, along with many of the present fay economist, that labor inherit an economy from Mr. Costello with many structural budget faults. I believe is was only a matter of time, that Howard’s mistakes came home to roost.

I believe we have survived the GFC, the worse since the great depression. A GFC that most of the western world still has not recovered by. I do not believe that Howard was a great PM. He inherited an economy that was on the mend. I judge Howard by the economy he left Hawke and Keating. During his stint as treasurer, we manage to have stagnation. Not a bad effort.

No, I do not believe this is the worse government ever. Maybe not the best, but far from the worse.

Funny thing about Labor PM. Portrayed and perceived as being bad while in power, and written up in a good light by history. The opposite appear true for those from the right.

This is particularly true for Whitlam and Keating. I suspect this PM will be seen in the same light down the track.

History will not be able to write out the GFC, as many on the right are trying do.

Waiting for the next round of put downs, which will surely come.

andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:20 pm

Geees migs I think you should shut this one down for comments. the whole point of the post is has gone. all this banter has nothing to do with the content of the post. It has desintergrated into, what apears to be, a standard day in parliament.

Stop it please.

730reportlandFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:16 pm

But we all know:
– Every. Single. Teabag. Here. Don`t. Have. Their. Own. Blog.
– And there is a subset of commenter`s who know
the expressing of teabag bullshit is automatically bullshit

So we are tacitly acknowledging that Mr-Rabbit
has non-core promises and no chance.

PS – I do recall the other day you made extremely hopeful
and unsubstantiated allegations that Mr-Rabbit cares.

MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:51 pm

Hi andyrob, even though I didn’t write the post, I’m sure that Victoria won’t mind given the direction some of the comments have tried to lead us. Victoria rightly supports the view that people are free to offer alternate opinions on her topics, however, there have been several attempts to derail it. Personally, I would like to see her treated with more respect, as do you.

I’ll close the topic for comments as a new post will be up shortly anyway.

Cheers,

Migs.

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AngelaFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:24 am

Excellently written victoria – 5 stars to you 🙂
Ray BoultonFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:45 am

About Climate change, it has amused me since the debate began thet educated people will run off to Scientific research to save then from cancer heart disease Diabetec etc but when a scientist comes up with climate change they run off to Larry Pickering Alan Jones etc oh well it might be me.
John LordFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:54 am

In addition there is of course Gonski and the NDIS . What is his intention with these.
steven jamesFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:48 am

keep up the good work victoria, and i will keep sharing it… : )
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:50 am

Victoria, excellent. I just wish that someone/anyone would call Abbott out on his so-called Direct Action Plan. It seems that no matter how expensive, no matter how unworkable that Tony’s ideas receive nothing more than nodding heads from Australia’s media.
DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm

Well done Victoria. You have said what people who look past what the MSM feed them and looked at what is really happening. I’d expect a stream of hate comming at you from the Coalition zealots in their usual Holden vs Ford religious devotion. I will be glad when things like the NBN break the mainstream media and give everyone easy access to less politically biased news reporting. I know they have always had a bias, but the last few years it has gone to extremes. One can only assume there are some people who really don’t like a woman running this country. I am not saying she is the worlds best PM but her and Labor seem to be honestly trying to do some good for the country. The alternative of Abbott, a sociopath whose whole end goal is power, who hasn’t even thought past winning the election, well no thanks. People such as him, and as I am finding out, Malcolm Turnbull, with their flexible honesty, are not looking for what’s good for Australia, they are looking at what is good for them.
KelvinFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:02 pm

Great work, I wanted more!!
sulphurcrestedFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:14 pm

Excellent article, Victoria. Bang on the nose.
This loser cannot be allowed to get near the levers of power and “wreck the joint” (thank you Paul Keating) which is his only modus operandi. What a worse than worthless piece of junk is Tony Abbott.
el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:14 pm

‘To deliver what exactly?’

He’s on record as saying human induced global warming is ‘crap’, so he will dismantle the edifice.

To bring this about the Coalition may be revolutionary in their approach to CC, using the latest data to show global warming has stopped and CO2 has no part to play.

Its risky strategy, but necessary if they are to win both houses.
Geoff Of EppingFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:21 pm

Victoria. You are a goddess. I pity Tony. He may well win this next election due to his adoring and uninformed sycophants. But mark my words. One year after a disastrous Abbott Prime Ministership, with Bronwyn Bishop (has been), Julie Bishop (out of her depth), Sophie Mirabella (a cross between Lady Macbeth and Medusa) Joe Hockey (stupider than a rock), George Brandis (he’s guilty I say) Chrissy Pyne (a mincing dilettante with a sewer for a mouth), Peter Dutton (inspector plod) Eric Abetz (poor old fool) Andrew Robb (who?) Barnaby Joyce (clueless Mary from the dairy) and the rest of his adoring cheering clueless acolytes; voters will be clamouring for anything but what they willingly voted for. All led, of course, by Tony’s right hand “woman”, Peta Credlin….she of the frozen IVF medications in Tony’s fridge. Isn’t he such a considerate SNAG?
The arrogance, nastiness and complete moral vacuum that these slugs operate in will implode and Australians will be mopping the mess left for decades to come.
Well I for one am resigned to the Reign of Terror about to be unleashed on us…but I’m not so sure about the willing followers of this band of hopelessly inept polished turds.
Adam TaylorFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:43 pm

Fantastic piece, you’re an artist!
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 12:01 pm

Bravo!! From the heart! Our media is shameful..run by old men in the pocket of Murdoch’s billionaire mates..Tony does not give a toski about the Australian working class..We have to get out there and re-educate the Murdoch media victims lied to about facts, because Tony Abbott can NEVER be Prime Minister of Australia, he cares NOTHING about the future of our children or the environment, he’s in it for himself only and he is an embarrassment to us on the world stage…In ya guts you know he’s nuts!!
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 12:05 pm

Ray Boulton – It’s not just you..many of us would agree with that…the likes of Jones Bolt and Pickering are a stain on civilized society..Anyone else not in big paid shock jock land spouting the garbage they do would be thrown in to the nearest psych facility.
Paul BoundyFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:15 pm

Straight to the point. Thanks.
I’m thinking how to get messages about Tony and Liberal/Nationals to those that need to hear them and I think that the Unions would be very helpful. Any better ideas for connecting with swinging voters?
cmskinnerFebruary 9, 2013 at 12:15 pm

Spot on, Victoria. Well written, now do ensure you email it to Tony, every day for 2 weeks.
LauraFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:51 pm

+10 internets for you Victoria.
Graz WFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:09 pm

A good article. But unfortunately, as was in the Howard era, they don’t care. They don’t believe / don’t want to believe in climate change. They have absolutely no care for people who come to us for help (and yet they go to church). They don’t care that thousands of Australian children will never receive a proper education. They don’t care about their fellow Australian workers rights. In other words, they think they are better than the rest of us. And they don’t seem to think they need to be honest with us. They have an unbelievably low opinion of democracy, but have no hesitation to send soldiers to their death in the name of it. When will Australia wake up to this fraud?
Reece HFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm

If only all Australians were as switched on as you. It wouldn’t even be at the point where we’d be worried this muppet and his fossils would even be considered a vote. We all know the reason why the media is so biased, *cough* Murdoch *cough*
Julian StevensonFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:37 pm

Brilliant, I’m sharing it.
Victoria RollisonFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Good question about swing voters. I really don’t know how to connect to them as I don’t think they are engaged with independent media etc. Most of the people I meet who say they hate Gillard and the Carbon Price was a lie etc are just Liberals who have always voted Liberal, whether they’re willing to admit to it or not. I personally can’t see why anyone who voted for Gillard in 2010 wouldn’t also support her in 2013, but hey, I am biased.
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 1:47 pm

Victoria, nicely put 😀 Let’s hope he gets to read it?

Mischmash1, “In your guts you know he’s nuts” 😀

In your guts you know he’s nuts
The Abbott’s more than a political clutz
His mouth springs open
While his brain just shuts
If the Abbott played golf he’d play
No drive… bad putts
🙄

It’s really sad the Abbott’s mad
His economic creds are just plain bad
On foreign policy
He’s a bit of a lad
And his attitude to Women
Is rough… just a tad
😯

He’s politically lazy but he’s also crazy
His policy platform’s kinda hazy
His ears might be cauliflower
But his brain’s pure daisy
And his temperament he struggles with
Cos his anger’s… quite.. blazey

Though lacking hearts, his team play their parts
With very few finishes, despite plenty of starts
Avoiding talk on policy
Yet defending Abbotts brain farts
While their lies, spin and dishonesty
Are rating…. off the charts
:Razz:

Chrissy Pyne thinks he’s just fine
But the mincing poodle’s full of whine
Bishops class, is just a farce
As she’s always talking through her arse
Sloppy Joe Hockey is always cocky
Though to say the least.. his maths are rocky
🙁

Barnaby lets his mouth run free
But he can’t see the wood, cos it’s hidden in the tree
Turnbulls creds are all in shreds
As he’s aligned himself with the farting heads
And the whole front bench, has an awful stench
Like a rotting carcase beaten.. with a monkey wrench

And it’s really sad that they’re all quite mad
Pushing ideas that are old and bad
And they’re all quite lazy and completely crazy
With a policy platform that’s incredibly hazy
And everyone with him is a political clutz
And in your guts.. you know they’re ALL.. bloody… nuts
😀

http://truthseekersmusings.wordpress.com/2013/01/01/in-your-guts-you-know-
hes-nuts/

and plenty more on my blog 😀

Cheers 🙂 😀 😆
Johnny rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:48 pm

A lot of crap SORRY
DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:48 pm

I am a swinging voter. There is no way I will vote for Abbott however. Over the years I have probably voted for the Liberals more often than not. I vote on merrits however, and the current Coalition MPs are just people I don’t want to see in charge or anything, they are low life lying scum, I’d prefer them not even to live in this country. Every time I take a good look at what Tony says is a Labor disaster the more I see what he calls a disaster has been a very good thing for Australia.
DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:50 pm

“A lot of crap SORRY” How can the truth be crap? Do you suckle the Murdoch teat?
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:53 pm

“In addition there is of course Gonski and the NDIS . What is his intention with these”

I believe we are being told, we cannot afford them.

He has once again missed the point. The truth is we cannot afford not to bring them into being.

it is an important part of growing the pie.
bushfirebillFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:11 pm

Sometimes I think it’s pointless to try to analyze Abbott policies.

My take is that he has an agenda of leaving so many punters unsure about so many of his policies that no-one (probably including Abbott) knows just whathis policies are.

I had a conversation with two “tradies” this morning at a domestic construction site near where I live.

One of them was cursing his iPhone for dropping out in the middle of downloads. The other had a different service provider and was able to log onto his firm’s web site to get the location of the next job.

We got talking (as people do) and I asked them what they thought of Gillard.

“Bitch!”, “Dickhead!” they replied almost in unison.

What did they think of Abbott?

“F**kwit!”, “Fake!” came the answers.

Did they think their problems would be solved by the NBN?

“Yes”, “No”

Why “No”… because the NBN is broadband not wireless replied the one who said “No”.

“Yeah but it’ll make things faster” said the other.

DId they think Abbott was going to let it be finished?

“Yes”, “No” again.

One thought he’d build it but was just bullshitting about knocking it down. The other thought he was being honest saying it’d go.

They probably intend to vote for Abbott but both have diametrically opposed views on what one of his core policies is.

You get that a lot around town. Hardly anyone believes he can turn the boats around, but they WANT to believe it.

No-one wants services depleted simply to force a surplus in the first year, but they would LIKE that to be the case. Half believe Abbott is going for a surplus and the other half don’t.

Abbott has been very successful in being all things to all people. whatever policy pronouncement he makes, there’s a Bizarro World mirror image of it somewhere that is completely arse-about to the other version.

No-one trusts him, either. But plenty – say 5%-10%… ENOUGH – THINK they know what the con is,and THINK they can outsmart him, cherry-picking the best bits and turfing the rest.

Abbott is better than a chameleon: a chameleon can only change its appearances one at a time. Abbott can be simultaneously Climate Friendly and Climate Antagonistic. Love the NBN and hate it. Be for better superannuation and agin it. Want to build up the Tropical North and dismiss that idea as dreaming.

The aim is to create confusion and dilemma.To bamboozle the public into thinking he’ll do the right thing, if only they can figure out what the “right thing” is. The “right thing” is what they BELIEVE he has promised, but nobody knows for sure.

They’ve been conditioned into thinking that the correct way to approach national elections is with baseball bats. They’re after revenge for something or other. Their votes are the mechanism of that revenge.

Their votes have been trivialized by the plethora of voting opportunities they now have. Voting on opinion polls (or reading about other who do), voting on TV shows, voting with their loose chage with on-line betting agencies.Gambling is a sort fo vote too.

When it comes to the Big One – the national election – the aim is to fool the people into thinking this is just another poll, a bet, a reversible investment.

That is Abbott’s plan: trivialize the important, keep the punters angry, be all things to all men, and get into powerno matter what.

Until the battlers realize this they are just setting themselves up for victimhood, fools easily parted not with their money, but with their precious franchise which Abbott has taught them to devalue.

The best way to avoid being conned is to walk away. Don’t try to outsmart the scammer. That is what they RELY on. You can never do it.

This is why I say trying to make sense of Abbott’s policy positions is a pointless task. He HAD no policy positions beyond basic brain fart status.

Better to attack the man and the scam he is running than to try to make sense of what he is saying. You can’t. It’s supposed to be that way.

THAT is Abbott’s technique.
DashaFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm

How is Labor going to pay for grandiose ideas of Gonski and NDIS ?
Perhaps borrow more money, who cares about $ 20 millions a day interest repayment. Or money just grows from trees.

Mining tax put job security and national investments at great risk but virtually raised no money ( after implementation and administration costs ).

Only this dumb Gillard/ swan Labor government could achieve this fiasco. What a bunch of laughing stock.

Australians are prepared to give Abbott coalition a go. They are sick of this Labor’s economic vandalism and rotten- to- core corruption.

Gillard has to go. Everything she did or does is only for her own survival. Sorry to say this: she has singlehandedly destroyed a once mighty Labor party.

Victoria, you are entitled to express you opinion for your political alliance. But I found the use of Australian”Independent” media network is deceptive and unlawful.
bushfirebillFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:24 pm

I found the use of Australian”Independent” media network is deceptive and unlawful.

Well, you’re posting here aren’t you Dasha? How is that deceptive and unlawful? It seems like even clowns such as yourself are allowed to express an opinion here.

Sounds pretty independent to me.

Labor’s “economic vandalism” has caused Australia’s dollar to become one of the world reserve currencies. It’s caused all three ratings agencies to give it AAA status. It’s kept unemployment to under 5.5%, in a world where other governments would go to war to achieve that. It’s kept interest rates at absolute record lows.

You have a weird definition of “vandalism”.
shanepotterblokeFebruary 9, 2013 at 2:25 pm

Well written Victoria 🙂 thankyou!
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Mr. Abbott’s email, so one can forwarded the letter on. Fun, even all it achieves is choking his mail box.

Tony.Abbott.MP@aph.gov.au
DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:25 pm

Dasha, your comments have nothing to do with the article. The article was that all Abbott’s policies and what he says is purely based on self interest. Since you didn’t defend him any way I will take that for agreement.
“you are entitled to express you opinion for your political alliance”
What has it go to do with political alliance? I usually vote liberal but it’s obvious what Vectoria says is the truth.
“Gillard has to go” I do not like aspects of her behaviour either, too reactionary to popular opinion. I do see her growing and making some hard choices. However I could never vote for Abbott, the guy is scum.
DarrenFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:26 pm

”
I found the use of Australian”Independent” media network is deceptive and unlawful.”
LOL, like asylum seekers coming to our country is illegal. You as big a liar as Abbott.
BMacFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm

I’m afraid your lack of understanding makes it look more like YOU are a ‘bunch of laughing stock’ Dasha.
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:41 pm

Oh, & here comes el trollo with his usual anti-science bulldust. Physics, Chemistry & the temperature record tell a very different story to what you & your Lunar Right mates are claiming, el trollo. Here’s a question, though, if Abbott believes climate change is “crap” (as he does), then why is he prepared to spend more than $30 billion of tax-payers money in order to deal with it? Of course his “plan” sounds like nothing more than fleecing hard-working lower income Australians in order to lavish the wealthy with welfare-much like their superannuation “plan”. Of course this is all part of a pathetic attempt to appease the dinosaurs of the fossil fuel industry & the lunar-Right members of the Tin-foil hat brigade. You appear to be a card carrying member of the latter group, el trollo.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:52 pm

Puzzled. Unlawful. How?
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:06 pm

Great work Victoria. Should be written on the eyelids of the msm journalists who refuse to see!
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:11 pm

Just to ensure some balance-

” Let’s start with an important policy – the Carbon Price.”

…and let’s look at Gillard, the policy she has implemented is nothing like the policy she took to the election. So does the current policy framework reflect well on Gillard?

” What about the National Broadband Network?

How about we have a look at the ALP approach. An NBN program that is over 5 times per capita as the world’s next most expensive. A cost of about $8,000 for every family. $2000for every pensioner in the country.

An expensive political fix significantly because the it is being rolled out into regions where it makes no economic sense.

” so called ‘Discussion Papers’

Is it OK if we call future ALP discussion papers “policies”?

” you don’t deserve to be captain of a CFS unit

Would you mind identifying a single voluntary community organisation Gillard participates in?
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:13 pm

Just brilliant, Victoria.
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:18 pm

One of the most biased attacks against Tony Abbott and the Liberal Party I have had the unfortunate opportunity to read. One sided bias attack but what would we expect from the author. No mention of the deceitful acts and lies from Juliar Gillard that the people of Australia have experienced since her rise to the top job.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:25 pm

Tom, you do realise that much of what you see as negatives, others see as positives.

As for being biased, anymore than those do not see the lies the Mr. Abbott espouses every day. For every word that comes from his mouth, one can find an example where he said the opposite. One version has to be a lie.

Mr.Abbott believes in telling what ever audience he is addressing, what he believes they want to hear.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:28 pm

Tom, I believe that Mr. Abbott has attended two fires in 8 years.

Can you inform us, of how many brigade meetings he turns up too.

You do realise, his brigade was not called to the south coast.

Would you mind identifying a single voluntary community organisation Howard or Costello participates in?
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:34 pm

Dasha, I don’t know what Australia that you live in, but it’s certainly not the one that the rest of us live in, that has an economy the envy of the rest of the developed world! 😯

Wake up 🙁 🙄 🙁

The worst thing is that you don’t even have any idea what Abbott and his band of corrupt cronies stand for, cos even they don’t! , except power at any cost, for which idiots like you, who vote for him, will ultimately pay along with our kids and the rest of the populous…. unless you’re mega rich of course!

Sad, very sad 🙁 😥
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:38 pm

On an independent political blog site, I think it is reasonable to subject leaders of the major parties to similar levels of scrutiny, and I’d expect that to be accepted as long as the comments are non abusive and rational.

Please let me know if you have any problems with this approach!
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 3:39 pm

Dashas definition of vandalism = painting over the graffiti, fixing up the fences and making the house the envy of the neighbourhood. 😆
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:41 pm

Fair enough, ToM. I invite you to send a post to me with a balancing view. I’d be more than happy to post it on your behalf.
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:42 pm

Ah Dasher, the thing about investing money in the *people* of this nation-& it’s infrastructure-is that it has a way of paying back far, far more than the original investment over time. An NDIS means that more working aged people can re-enter the workforce-meaning increased tax receipts in the long-term. School reform means a better skilled & educated population-resulting in higher average wages &, again, increased tax-receipts. Now, lets compare that to the Howard era, where he pumped *billions* of dollars into propping up the massively inefficient health insurance & child care industries, gave up billions of dollars of revenue due to tax-cuts for the wealthy & spent hundreds of millions of dollars on partisan political advertising! I know which I’d prefer!
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:45 pm

“No mention of the deceitful acts and lies from Juliar Gillard that the people of Australia have experienced since her rise to the top job.”

Yeah right, Mark, what a load of codswallop. Your use of the term “Juliar” immediately exposes you as one of the paid-up members of Menzies House, who troll Center-Left political blogs spreading bull-crap. Care to provide an actual instance of the “deceitful acts” & “lies” you’ve mentioned? I doubt you will, Mark, because you sound like a “hit & run” troll to me!
el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:49 pm

Migs as I mentioned at the cafe, its simply wrongheaded to be openly biased.

The idea of the AIMN is sound, but I get this overwhelming impression that its an ‘editors club’ composed of rusted ons.

How about giving Treeman a guest post … 5 short pars and one link?
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:52 pm

Can we have a dislike button?

Would love to see posts from out visitors.
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:53 pm

“and let’s look at Gillard, the policy she has implemented is nothing like the policy she took to the election”.

Really, Tom? Care to present us with the policy Gillard presented to the public at the election, & show us where it differs from what actually got implemented? Even if there were differences, what else would you expect under a HUNG PARLIAMENT?

“How about we have a look at the ALP approach. An NBN program that is over 5 times per capita as the world’s next most expensive.”

Again, got any *evidence* to back that claim up? I bet you haven’t. Far from being a “political fix”, the NBN represents a vital investment in critical infrastructure that was left to rot by a Government more interested in propping up inefficient industries like Private Health Insurance & Privatized Child Care, or splashing around tax-cuts to buy votes. Pity the Limited News readers like yourself can’t see that obvious fact!
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:55 pm

Why, el trollo? Trollman simply talks crap & spends most of his time idolizing frauds like Larry Pickering. Give someone like him 5 paragraphs, & he’ll spend most of it saying “Labor sucks, Coalition rulez” for at least 4 of them, because that’s the only argument members of the Lunar Right seem capable of coming up with.
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:58 pm

btw, el trollo & dasher, this is * independent*-namely independent of Murdoch, Reinhart, Palmer & other powerful vested interests. Just because the so-called “rusted ons” are the only people who are capable of constructing a decent argument is hardly their fault, or the fault of the editors. The frequent, pointless contributions of the Abbott Adorers Society-here & at Cafe Whispers-are proof positive of why they have no business getting published as a by-line.
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:00 pm

Marcus just to show you that I am not a “hit and run” troll as you falsely accuse me to be. Here is just a few examples of many:

I will not introduce a carbon tax. What do we currently have ETS. Lie number ONE.

Labor led by JG withdrawl of support for gambling/poker machine reform. Why did she walk away from the reform? Simple answer – backlash from labor heartland voter. Deceitful act number ONE.

Sacking of long servicing Labor senator of 15 years. Why ? Another simple answer because the incumbent had the wrong colour skin. Discrimination at its best. Deceitful act number TWO.

The list goes on…and why? Simple answer – Power
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:05 pm

Mark, is that the best you can do.
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:10 pm

Catching up, they are the facts and there are many more examples of lies and deceit.
BacchusFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:12 pm

Mark, that looks like it was lifted direct from a Bolt blog. Haven’t you got an original thought in your head that you’d like to share? 😉
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:13 pm

No, tjhey are your versions of the fact, and far from the truth.
el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:16 pm

‘How about Treeman start his own site?’

Leftard Editors Only Need Apply

Victoria seems popular.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:18 pm

For Marcsu – there’s plenty of material about the HUGE cost of our NBN if you care to look.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/nbn-most-extreme-broadband-plan-eiu-20111010-1lh7i.html

“At the far end of this range of intervention is Australia, which has both the highest level of total public funds pledged, $27.1 billion, and the highest level of public spending per household, due to the government’s plan to create, own and operate an ultra-fast fibre network in virtually all parts of the country,” the EIU said.

But my mistake, apparently Qatar and Greece have ones that are expensive too. Ours is only around 50% to twice as expensive as those ones.

But …”For the US and UK the cost per household was estimated at $159 and $57, respectively” …compared to ours at over $3000!!

…and Marcus, the policy framework Gillard took to the election was –
• A program over 3 years to build community consensus
• A representative forum involving lay members of the electorate to build community consensus
• No change in current polccy until 30 June 2013 at the earliest
• No carbon tax

Could you advise which of those public commitments she fulfilled?
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:18 pm

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BCjQyj0CEAAfGDW.jpg:large
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:22 pm

Bacchus – typical catchcry response when presented with the facts
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:31 pm

Catchin up

So you are tellng me and everyone else:

Norther Territory Labor senator did not get the sack/releived of her position by the PM she held for 15 years. If you dont believe me ask Senator Crossin.

Poker reforms not watered down. If you dont believe me ask Senator Wilkie.

No carbon tax. Ask the PM she wont denying saying.

Not versions of the facts….just fact
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:32 pm

ToM, please feel free to write an open letter to Julia Gillard if you have issues with her.

Here we are talking about Tony Abbott.
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:36 pm

Mark, one can only write from one’s own perspective. If you believe that there are errors of fact, please feel free to itemise these.
CaroleFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:42 pm

Thank you Victoria. All the little trolls came trip-trapping to add their inane comments. Check out this YouTube video about one of TA’s ‘besties’.

“The ballad of Gina Rinehart”
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:43 pm

Mark, 😥 Try Dolts blog 👿

Scroll jammed= Moot point 🙁 Moot point 🙁 pathetic 🙁 moot point but
There are many selfless volunteers who do great work for their communities (Abbott not being one of them IMHO), but i’ve not met one that should be running the country necessarily (Abbott included/especially)

Companies don’t call for volunteers to be CEO, the army doesn’t call for volunteers to run a battle, etc etc 😯

Cheers 😀
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:43 pm

For over a decade, Labor has trying to get an indigenous person into that post. Last time, the Senator won by one vote.

There are many that see this as an injustice.,

Many see the PM fixing a wrong. The good senator fought last time, and was unlikely to come to the party this time.

One is elected for a term. One does not have the right to expect, once in the job, one is there for life.

There are similar, very nasty fights going on in the Coalition. Slippers seat and one on the Central Coast NSW for starters.

Police called in, and ended up in court, for the latter one.,

There was a vote taken in the Territory, most fell in behind the PM.

What you are complaining about is the rough and tumble of politics, that many from the right, say that they PM needs to toughen up and get on with the job.

It seems she has taken their advice.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:44 pm

As for the Poker reforms, at least the PM did manage to get some through. Not what some wanted, but what was feasible.

One can do no more than that.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:49 pm

Yes, no carbon tax. It is also a shame that she said in the same paragraph that she would be bringing a price on carbon emission.

This was said in the context of the time, where there discussion was about a straight carbon tax, which Abbott had raised, and an ETS, or price on carbon emissions.

Yes, the media and Opposition have been very sneaky in their presentations of what was said.

We have a fixed price on carbon emissions, that will end up as a market based cost on carbon emissions in the near future.

it is not a tax..
sulphurcrestedFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:50 pm

Don’t feed the trolls. They are a waste of time and energy. If they are fed, they love it and trying to reason with them still hijacks the threads. That’s why they are doing it. They are parasites and energy leeches, as well as all the other nasty , pointless things that they are.
I’d prefer to see their crap deleted rather than remain posted. There’s enough of that BS in MSM and in the minds of people who can’t think for themselves.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:51 pm

I notice Chris Berg (IPA) made a negative comment about the http://www.independentaustralia.net/ yesterday and here today there are LNP trolls trying to distract from the point. That’s what they do. DISTRACT with RED HERRINGS.
The point? Abbott is a liar and wrecking ball. So is the LNP.
It’s obvious they are giving Tone a couple of months, with a lot of help, to make the grade and if he doesn’t swing around the voter’s perception .. Hockey is the next cab off the rank.
Meanwhile they’ll whinge about the government (anything to distract from abbot as much as possible), distract from their lack of policies and generally run and hide.
As for the trolls .. they are doing a job. I reckon ignore them completely so their boss checks their figures (or penetration), sees none .. and sacks them.
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 4:55 pm

El gordo, then you would be wrong..same as at Cafe Whispers, anyone who submits a topic will be published as long as the article complies with legal standards regarding defamation and copyright.
jaFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:57 pm

Tony Abbott said in his NPC speech that he always believed in anthropomorphic climate change. So the ‘truth’ is whatever he wants to say at the time even if it means rewriting history, because he’ll deny it. The planned chaos is less successful now thanks to the net and fully demonstrates his constant changes.

He has policies in the same way I look through a magazine and decide to change a room, without any plan, just a possible idea until I have the next one. He and Joe Hockey contradict one another – Joe Hockey even forgets what he has just said, as he did yesterday about superannuation.

I understand that some people will vote LNP because they always have and so are not interested in policies. What I can’t fathom is why low-paid workers or ‘battlers’ support LNP. They will take away the schoolkids’ bonus but put in their expensive maternity leave provisions and maintain high salaried women. Tony Abbott’s understanding of ‘poverty’ is ‘struggling to maintain a $750,000 mortgage and was illustrated by his puerile version of carbon tax, where we’d pay and then at the end of the year claim it all back. As though ‘battlers’ can wait – and as though that wouldn’t have cost an enormous amount in adminstration, just another room-change idea.

You’re wrong Dasha. This Australian reaches near hysteria at the thought of this dishonest, ignorant and poorly prepared person representing us as Prime Minister, with his support of unprincipled people like Mal Brough as elected members. I wouldn’t use the term ‘corrupt’ if I were you unless you have actual proof.

I’ve never seen evidence of The PM putting herself before Australia. Tony Abbott does it every time he talks down the economy or starts some scare campaign or other. He did it from the minute he insisted there had to be another election and he’s doing it now with his blithe promise of a double dissolution and promises to destroy major legislation an elected government developed – not one person, a government and a policy that seems to be working. He lies when he says it would ‘quickly’ bring down electricity prices and would be lucky to get it repealed before the transition to an ETS (the Howard-preferred plan)

I also noted how nobody has actually stuck up for Tony Abbott’s policies with any sort of credible argument.

Thank you Victoria for a clear and interesting article.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:58 pm

It was Abbott that raised the issue of a carbon tax at the time. The PM was responding to his statement.
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:59 pm

Might be the rough and tumble of politics as you say. As someone who currently employs a number of staff I can just imagine the flogging I would receive from the unions via FWA if I was to sack someone simply because I thought there time was up. The PM claims it was the “capitan’s” choice, but if I or anyone else was to sack an employee for no reason unions would throw the book at me. Once again catching up – A Fact
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:02 pm

How about giving Treeman a guest post … 5 short pars and one link?

How about Treeman start his own site?
NellMFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:04 pm

Brilliant piece Victoria, have shared it on FB. Keep up the great work.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:05 pm

This is my last reply. You choose to ignore, that the PM did nothing, that goes on from time to time in politics.

The PM did it because, one, she has the power to do so. , Two, because if was the correct thing to do.

The senator was not sacked. She is still in the senate. Her term runs out soon.
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:05 pm

TS, and here is a link to the article, written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan and titled:

Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-fn59niix-1225907522983
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:10 pm

Interesting is the troll-tactic of labelling a blog “unfair and unbalanced”..while at the same time being awarded the freedom to express their own opinion.
katieFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:34 pm

how the hell did I get on the so one sided page!

I guess you were lucky (Miglo).
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:36 pm

Katie that exactly what I thought when I read it..one sided indeed..100% bias
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:42 pm

I know it’s an issue ALP supporters such as Min and Catching Up don’t enjoy being reminded of…but the fact is that Gillard provided on unequivocal written commitment on the nature of the poker machine reform.

The best that can be said of this is that it was a commitment she wasn’t entitled to provide, because she was in no position to guarantee delivery of it. Some people may see her shirking as a breach of the very undertaking that put her in the Lodge.

This was no normal written commitment, and Gillard was unable to even deliver her own party to support it.

If her agreement had included a proviso that it was subject to the composition of the HoR (or something), then some of the excuses might have a point.
el gordoFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:44 pm

Comment deleted – totally irrelevant to the topic (Miglo).
BacchusFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:48 pm

Mark, the point you choose to ignore in your wilful ignorance, is that Sen Crossin is not employed by Ms Gillard. Your analogy with your employees is just rubbish.

Ms Crossin was endorsed by her party to stand for election as a Senator for the NT. This endorsement has now been withdrawn.

If she so desires, she can stand as a candidate for the senate in the next election – there’s nothing stopping her. Whether she is employed or not is up to the voters…
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:52 pm

“how the hell did I get on the so one sided page!”

Because it is the view from the left. I find the same thing when I go to sites, that give the view from the right.

Might learn something new, if you hang about.
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 5:52 pm

The full transcript is “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead, but lets be absolutely clear. I am determined to price carbon”

Abbott would have also agreed to implementing a price on carbon to get his grubby mits on the keys to the lodge, but the Indies knew that the lying bastard couldn’t be trusted to run full term 👿
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:57 pm

Bacchus, her term of six years is coming to an end. Every politician has to complete to be re-endorsed.

No sacking.

In the end, it was the party that made the decision.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:59 pm

Tom., it was not Labor that did not support the poker bill. It was the Independents. They are not of the PM’s party.

Mr. Wilkie, himself, could not get the numbers.

Tom, you know that, as much as I do.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:01 pm

…and just ensure the correct context around Gillard’s commitment to having indigenous members of parliament.

Gillard intervened in a preselection to prevent an indigenous person becoming a senator. Prominent indigenous leader and former ALP National President Warren Mundine was to be appointed to fill the NSW casual vacancy, but Gillard intervened to stop this and appointed Carr. Her lack of commitment lead to Mundine resigning his membership.
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 6:03 pm

Mark, please excuse the impatience here at times because it does get somewhat frustrating attempting to provide factual information to people who read no further than the headlines at the Courier Mail or the Daily ‘graph.

All informed people would advise you of the same thing, that the poker machine legislation had the support of neither Windsor nor Oakeshott as especially Windsor expressed his concern about the impact on the revenue of country clubs. The government could therefore get the legislation through the Senate due to the support of the Greens, but could not get it through the House of Reps as it needed the vote of both Windsor and Oakeshott.

But of course the whole thing could now be law if Tony Abbott had chosen to support it.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:09 pm

Catching Up, have you read the full text of the agreement? I don’t believe it is possible to argue Gillard did what she promised.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:12 pm

Would everyone stop replying to this tom of melbourne rubbish. He just keeps repeating and making stuff up and it keeps coming through to my emails!
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:16 pm

Tom, what do you believe the PM should have done. Introduce leglistaion to the parliament, knowing it would be defeated.

Now that I must say, makes sense.

Not too sure, where defeated legislation stands on the books. if Abbott did succeed in bringing the PM down, and took over.

Could even be the beginnings of a DD bill.

The PM would have went ahead, if Mr. Wilkie delivered the numbers. He could not.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:18 pm

Tom, you not liking what the PM does, does not make the PM wrong.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:35 pm

Catching Up, Gillard won the support of Wilkie to become Prime Minister because of the written commitment she made to him. The agreement didn’t rely on Wilkie delivering anything.

It required the government to meet undertakings, and Gillard overstretched (to put it most kindly) in making commitments she could not deliver.

The written agreement committed the government to ‘acting unilaterally’. Gillard did not even attempt this.

Like it or not, Gillard broke the agreement that allowed her to form government.

…and I’ll leave it at that (for now)

That’s good, ToM. You’ve bashed the Wilkie issue to death (Miglo).
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:42 pm

In fairness to the issue of balance here, Miglo did offer to post something I wrote. Which is certainly very generous, and demonstrates a willingness to publish a range of opinions.

But I’ll decline at the moment, because it would involve too much care with facts and expression.
andyrobFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:45 pm

So you dont think MSM is biased in how the report political issues.

When do you see them positively reporting for the incumbent party. AAA rating financially, Lowest unemployment for HOW long, Lowest interest rates in HOW long. They may report the news but then go on to take the PM or government down. What the?

Between the LNP, super rich and the MSN, all I see happening is a case of DIVIDE AND RULE

Elements of this technique involve:

– creating or encouraging divisions among the subjects to prevent alliances that could challenge the sovereign
– aiding and promoting those who are willing to cooperate with the sovereign
fostering distrust and enmity between local rulers
– encouraging meaningless expenditures that reduce the capability for political and military spending

Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule
GlennFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:49 pm

As soon as I saw the choice of photo It told me this was going to be an extremely biased article.Look at the labour party scandals and broken promise’s at the moment.

All else in this article pales into insignificance and I dont vote liberal !
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:53 pm

I would say that Mr.Abbott has opened his mail. He has now sent his army out to defend him. Poor job they are doing.

Shock, horror, that a left wing site might put forward the views and opinions of the left wing.
Ken BrownFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:54 pm

Great work Victoria….spot on. Pity the bulk of Australians won’t get to read the view that doesn’t comply with that of Rinehart, Murdoch and the other vested interests. Tom, you are clueless as to the benefits of the NBN, especially for regional Australia, but for our Country’s future generally with technology and communications. Long term optical fibre to the home will be vital to the community and would be far further advanced without Howard’s sellout of Telstra. The cost of the NBN as budgeted to date is less than what the Howard Government stole from the telephone subscribers, so that his Government could finance Federal Government politicians and public servants superannuation.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:59 pm

reb, you certainly do not believe that we are here to push the views of the right,.

reb, I am sure you will point out if we moved from the facts.

All we are interested in is challenging the lies and misrepresentations from the right.

Where is the harm in that.

Yes, many do believe that the PM has done more good than bad. Of course, the PM like all other humans. is not perfect.

I do not believe we are bias. Just that we see things from a different angle.

That I believe is good for democracy.
JasonFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:04 pm

Glenn,
“Look at the labour party scandals and broken promise’s at the moment.”

If you wish to hang shit on LABOR at least get the spelling right Glen Glyn Glenn or however you spell it!
DashaFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:05 pm

Nothing wrong at all with a Labor supporting blog site like this.
But what Is deceptive is the title of Australian ” independent” media network.

Calling people with different views ” clowns”, ” idiots” etc just proves this point.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:21 pm

” I have edited a number of the comments for those who wish to view them.”

Which causes me to suggest that if you would prefer to see less of the opposing point of view you might encourage Catching Up to desist from suggesting that it was up to Wilkie to deliver anything – other than his vote to allow the ALP to form minority government.

He met his obligations under the written agreement and despite the baseless assertions to the contrary, Gillard didn’t meet hers.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:24 pm

Min. I have a very thick hide.
dafid1dFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:25 pm

katie my dear old thing, if you dont like it, you know where the door is, do close it behind you.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:29 pm

After all this post did challenge Mr. Abbott. One would have hoped that they used facts to defend him.

At least we are in no doubt of what we are up against.

Attacks which refuse to show the PM no leniency.

What I do not understand, is what they hope to achieve.

Cannot help but think, their problems are more than the differing politics.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:31 pm

“how the hell did I get on the so one sided page!”

That’s what I was thinking.

When I first came across the Australian Independent Media Network, I had great hopes that it might provide a relatively unbiased and objective view of politics as well as a relatively lucid forum for discussion of current affairs.

Clearly I mistook “independent” with “objective.”

The author of this post is perfectly entitled to express her views, regardless of how blatantly partisan they may be.

Done (Miglo).

It’s interesting to read through the comments above and to witness the level of vitriol directed towards anyone who either raises an issue with the partisan nature of the post or expresses an opposing view.

It’s ironic that the site professes to be “independent” but has effectively become an even nastier mirror image of the msm.

With this in mind, Migs, I think it’s probably best if you remove me as an author from the team.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:34 pm

“Because it is the view from the left. I find the same thing when I go to sites, that give the view from the right.

Thanks for clearing that up CU.

I had some crazy notion that AIMN might have been attempting to be a relatively unbiased, objective observation of politics.

Silly me.

Reb, if it’s to do with the topic, an alternate view is always welcome (Migs).
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:35 pm

Min, it seems I need it.

Tom, are you really demanding I not be allow to disagree with you.,

What I say. still stands.

The PM did what she could to get the votes.

Please tell me, how the PM could have got the Independent to change their minds.

If you can explain that to me, maybe I am wrong.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:37 pm

Attempted to post?
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:38 pm

“The agreement didn’t rely on Wilkie delivering anything.”

Correct. Although we’ve explained this to CU before, so there’s little point in explaining it again.

Some people only see what they want to see, and in this situation (like many others), the prevailing view is that “Julia Gillard should never be criticised”
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:46 pm

Reb you sure have, When is it going to get through your skull, I do not agree with you, as is my right.

Point out to me, how the PM could have got the legislation through.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Catching Up, this isn’t a difference of opinion. You are simply choosing to ignore the facts.

Gillard probably couldn’t deliver the independents. But that’s not the issue because – she committed to delivering the parliament or acting unilaterally.

She might have thought the issue would gain the momentum to press the independents or the Liberals. But it didn’t.

So Gillard made an agreement she wasn’t entitled to. As a result, she became Prime Minister.

…and don’t bother to say ‘she did all she could’…because that is not what the written commitment required of her.
JasonFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:47 pm

Reb,
Why does the PM have to agree with gay marriage? I’ve never understood the connection! The hard right of the coalition also disagree yet it’s only the PM who incurs your wrath!
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:49 pm

Tom and reb, I am not ignoring facts. Would it matter if I was,
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:51 pm

The PM incurs the wrath of some for one reason, and one reason only, The PM happens to be a woman.,
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:52 pm

ToM, I remember with respect your input on Migs’ topics concerning indigenous issues. I for one would welcome you as an author when time might allow.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 7:57 pm

I have edited a number of the comments for those who wish to view them.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:57 pm

There is only one fact of any importance, No matter what the PM did, the Wilkie legislation was not going to pass.

Mr. Wilkie did eventually support the amended legislation, which became law.

One cannot have their own facts, as you say.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:59 pm

One piece of legislation, out of how many hundreds the PM did manage to bring into law.

A little petty, one would think,
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:03 pm

Well reb, you may as well be one of his squad. No, I am not into tactics. I just write what I believe in. Try to ignore the hate that consumes some..
MinFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:04 pm

Sad isn’t it..one puts forward an opinion differing from group think MSM and what follows is the scream of “bias”. As stated previously, I speak from my own point of view but what does get my dander up is people who repeat what they’ve read on a Bolt blog and without question, take it as factual information. Here I give credit to Catching Up, her knowledge, her perseverance in attempting to provide factual information while confronted with quite substantial personal put downs is truly to be admired.
fredFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:04 pm

I can’t believe you are so naive to believe in the Global warming lie!!!
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:09 pm

”Why are all our topics being turned into discussions on Andrew Wilkie?”

It’s a simple explanation – Catching Up continually posts a comment that is factually incorrect and refuses to recognize that Gillard broke her word.

Catching Up continually blames Wilkie, when he did exactly what he committed to. Gillard didn’t.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:11 pm

Dasha, you came in here on the attack. You could have joined in the debate without denigrating the author.
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:13 pm

Bacchus once again we have to read grubby words like “ignorance” and “rubbish”‘ from left wing labor supporters becuase they have difficulty with anybody else that may have an opposing view. Crossin was sacked and there is no other way to describe her removal.
bushfirebillFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:21 pm

Amazing how right wing commenters expect left leaning sites to be fair and balanced, but don’t apply the same restrictions to their own sites.

Oh well, it was a good conversation until the trolls moved in to wreck it.

That’s what they do, of course.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:30 pm

Reb/ToM/Mark,

I’m sorry you don’t like it here. Please feel free to leave if that’s the case.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:33 pm

“At least we are in no doubt of what we are up against.”

Victimisation/persecution complex much?
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:36 pm

Just to provide a “veneer of balance” I’ve attempted to post some pointed criticism about Julia Gillard’s stance on marriage equality, asylum seekers, and her betrayal of Andrew Wilkie.

These are facts that stand alone and speak for themselves.

But apparently that’s not sufficiently anti-Abbott enough.
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:36 pm

Miglo not intention of leaving..someone needs to publish the actual facts and ensure there is a balanced discussion rather than bias commentary that has dominated the article right from the start.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:39 pm

So my crime is, I will not do as reb directs, believe what he tells me too.

I have a suggestion reb, go back and reread what you have written.,
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:41 pm

How many times do we have to explain it to you CU?

I have explained Gillard’s betrayal of Andrew Wilkie to you on at least two occasions in the past.

Tom has as well.

You just don’t like the FACTS when presented to you in detailed chronological order that Gillard lied to Wilkie and accordingly can’t be trusted. Her “word” means nothing.

But as usual, you seem incapable of comprehending a details that suggest that Gillard can’t be trusted, and backed up with support from the cheer squad here, you all cry “but what about Tony Abbott…!”
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:45 pm

Miglo, I’ve not said I don’t like it. I’ve said several times that I think this is a great endeavour.

But I also think it is inaccurate to suggest that the discussion is derailed by people who are simply seeking to point out the facts, and other contributors actually deny those facts.

On a balanced site some will point out the significant range of deficiencies in the Liberal Party and Abbott. I think each of the threads so far does this. Other contributors will identify some problems with the ALP and its leadership.

That’s balance.

Refraining from derogatory name calling is also helpful. Reference to opposing views as “trolls” just illustrates limited intellect.

You might consider correcting the name calling occasionally.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:47 pm

Mark, that’s fine. We just want the authors to be shown the decency of staying on topic.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:52 pm

“I do not agree with you, as is my right.”

For sure. You’re perfectly entitled to your own opinion CU.

You’re just not entitled to your own facts.
Sue B.February 9, 2013 at 9:53 pm

Agreed, Mark. Bias media is concerning.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:53 pm

“I am not ignoring facts. Would it matter if I was”

Obviously not to you.
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 8:55 pm

The PM’s personal views on marriage are her own, all of us have a right to our own ‘opinion’ regarding personal views, she did not stop her Party members voting on gay marriage, Abbott did/does! The asylum seekers issue is a huge beat up by Abbott and Murdoch dog whistling the lowest forms of life in society, racists! Any poker machine policy to help aussies from gambling their lives away was screwed by the Clubs vicious campaign to incite addicted patrons into thinking clubs actually cared about them, and to hate on the PM for caring, but in reality it was all about them and their billion dollar cash flow industry from ruining lives.. Wilkie rejected it all over one option being left out..the one dollar bet restriction..rather that start something to help those he ‘so called’ cared about, which could have lead to more help, (policy does not happen over night as Abbott tries to tell you) so he went running to the newz hounds crying foul to get his face on the news. All beat ups..nothing credible. It’s like listening to an ancient broken 78 record with Abbott’s cheer squad.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 8:56 pm

“The PM incurs the wrath of some for one reason, and one reason only, The PM happens to be a woman.,”

Link..?

Citation…?

Any remote skerrick of evidence to suggest that I’ve attacked Julia Gillard because she’s a woman…???

Or is this just another CU “look over there” tactic…
PaulFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Yes Dasha
It’s a bit like the Institute of Public Affairs. Apparently some of us are public and some of us are not -namely those who disagree with their political agenda. kind of ironic isn’t it?
MarkFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:00 pm

Miglo show where I have gone off topic…
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:00 pm

“It’s like listening to an ancient broken 78 record with Abbott’s cheer squad.”

So I’m part of “Abbott’s cheer squad” now am I…?

This is what’s so predictable about the Gillard apologists from TPS and since this post from Victoria on this site; any criticism of Gillard must mean that therefore you are an Abbott supporter.

Sorry to break the news, but the world isn’t that simplistic.

But I guess some minds might struggle with that concept.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:05 pm

Why are all our topics being turned into discussions on Andrew Wilkie? Or should I say derailed, not turned?
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 9:10 pm

I take it Reb didn’t read the sexist hate filled rants I posted, taken from those charming Gillard Juliar FB HATE pages, those charmers.posting the same tired stories laced with hatred and sexism..Just as Abbott denies sexism in his party, so to do his supporters..even when you shove the evidence right in their faces they refuse to acknowledge anything is wrong!. Me..who me?? I don’t hate women..I just hate that bitch witch ranga big nose dyke destroying my country! Blinkers must be on sale at Bunnings.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:11 pm

Well like I said before, I had the impression that this was going to a be a site that at least attempted a semblance of “balance.”

But it’s clear from the TPS rent-a-crowd and CU’s unchallenged declaration that it’s a left-wing blog that I was clearly mis-guided.

Pity really.

I hate Abbott just as much as the next reasonably intelligent person, however what I’m not prepared to do is simply overlook Gillard’s duplicity, like so many here are prepared to do.

And yet Min talks about “groupthink” …

Remarkable.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:13 pm

“I take it Reb didn’t read the sexist hate filled rants I posted.”

Correct. And by the sounds of things it doesn’t sound like I missed much.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:13 pm

FFS The barbarians have taken over the place. As they do. The loudmouths, the arguers, the whingers, the distractors and red herring agenda setters. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Why listen? Will the moderator give them what the big children need – the a, the big A, and make us all feel better.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:13 pm

“Catching Up continually posts a comment that is factually incorrect and refuses to recognize that Gillard broke her word.”

Bingo.
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 9:29 pm

Nasty fictional character trolls are all over the PM’s page..The PM allows them to stay, only when they become violent they get banned but will come back within minutes under another fake account, with a vindictive handle and a photo of the PM with a moustache or an ugly photo of a woman. They even take people’s identity profiles plus their photo and post vile comments under the stolen identities name..On Abbott’s FB page you only have to ask him a question about his policies and admin has you banned..the whole page is filled with adoring sycophants only..if you don’t idolize him you get booted.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:29 pm

So is this place meant to be Cafe Whispers II or The Political Sword II, or a combination of the two…??

(Just wondering)
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:35 pm

Gee, Fred, I can’t believe you’re so ignorant as to doubt more than 150 years of scientific research & instead believe a bunch of vested interests who claim Global Warming isn’t happening, simply because dealing with it will hurt the profits of those who put money in their pockets (like Monckton, Bolt, Murdoch, the IPA-or did you really believe they make these comments for free?) Hope you’ve got your tin-foil hat handy.
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:36 pm

I’ve long suspected that reb was nothing but a closet Abbott Adorer. Dislike Gillard & Labor all you like, but please at least give us *one* thing in that letter to Abbott that was *factually incorrect*. I doubt you’ll be able to, as you Lunar Right folks are all talk, zero facts!
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:43 pm

Hi Victoria. Great comeback to ToM.

I apologise that some people have been intent into derailing your topic topic to suit their own agenda. I would be more than happy to have their future comments blocked.
MarcusFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:43 pm

“Catching Up continually blames Wilkie, when he did exactly what he committed to. Gillard didn’t.” Actually Tom, according to Tony Windsor, Wilkie did absolutely *nothing*, & sat on his bum letting Gillard & her government do all the hard work in relation to the Gambling Reform Legislation. At the end of the day, though, the other Independents refused to support the Wilkie Bill in it’s entirety, instead demanding the trial that was suggested in the Productivity Commission Report (as you’d know, if you weren’t a mealy mouthed Abbott Apologist). Yet Wilkie made *no* attempt to try & win the other Independents over to his way of thinking on the issue of poker machine reform. Meanwhile, though, Abbott & his cohort have made it very clear that there will be *no* changes to poker machines on their watch, because they get a lot of their funding from the Gambling Industry.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:44 pm

“I’m sorry you don’t like it here. Please feel free to leave if that’s the case.”

I’m just trying to figure out what is meant by the title Migs: “Australian Independant Media Network”….?

When I heard you were setting this place up, I was interested to be a part because I thought it would be balanced and provide an alternative to the right-wing partisan MSM.

However it seems (as evidenced by the comments on this thread) that it is purely a Gillard/Labor government loyal partisan site.

For the benefit of others, I think you really ought to state so in the “About Us” section or Disclaimer, just so that other people don’t get the wrong idea that this is a balanced site.

And to respond to your statement that “I can leave if I don’t like it,” – I did like it here when I thought it would be “balanced” however it’s clear that it’s anything but.

(Just saying)
mummsyFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:48 pm

Do any of you remember the interview where Abbott admitted to the public not to believe anything he says..as he will say exactly what you want to here whether he believes it all not..he admitted that he lies on public TV interview…my be he thinks this would win him votes by being honest…well he’s meaning of the word honest…I will never vote for a weak person especially when he decided to drag his wife out as a puppet to repeat what he had already said. But this back fired as all you had to do was look at her face and eyes to know she didn’t believe a word she was saying…I think what should happen is a televised interview with both parties talking to an independent therapist.. Then make a decision on the therapist impressions
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:50 pm

Reb/ToM, authors have been free to write about any topic they want. There is nothing to stop them write about something that is a right-wing view.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

I don’t see this site as innately ALP, it is simply that there are a number of people here who disdain legitimate criticism of the government.

Avoidance of insults and name calling helps keep things orderly, but some are happy just to dumb it down- unable to reply rationally.
======
Thanks for the reply Victoria. I think the purpose of a political blog is to test positions, policies and ideas.

That’s my approach anyway.

I’m not sure why this makes it necessary for me (specifically) to stop blogging as Tom of Melbourne.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:55 pm

“There is nothing to stop them write about something that is a right-wing view.”

That’s a nice idea in theory Migs, but somehow I doubt you’ll see many takers…
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:57 pm

Besides, my politics haven’t changed. I’ve always been centre-left (which amuses me when people here suggest I’m part of the “Abbott cheer squad”).

It’s Gillard who’s moved to the right.

To suggest that Labor is still a “left-wing” party is frankly laughable.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:57 pm

@Miglo I don’t see the reasoning in allowing the trolls in to derail the topic. Their agenda is only distraction and distortion. Their nasty chiding is designed to have an effect on the author and others who want to make comments.
Democracy has rules to protect itself from the barbarians.
regards
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 9:59 pm

Indeed Sue and Mark….

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:00 pm

By the way .. well said Marcus .. facts win every time.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:05 pm

Marcus, you appear not to have you read the agreement Gillard and Wilkie signed. Wilkie met his written commitments.

It seems that some people prefer to talk about the commitments that (perhaps) should have been exchanged, rather than the ones that actually were.

Now – I’m entirely willing to leave the discussion on Wilkie at that, unless someone shows an interest in continuing.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:06 pm

Hi Miglo. Well said and you’re dead right. Victoria is writing too well to be held back by immature 15 year olds.
regards 😉
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:13 pm

Though Miglo this story by Victoria deserves a lot more respect. Can’t you just block them and their silly hijacking nonsense? I mean who’s gonna miss it? It’s just trolls and their verbal meanderings … I’d call it diarrhea if I could spell it.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:15 pm

@teddysea…

I rest my case.. 🙄
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:19 pm

reb, the problem is that your bias against PMJG is perfectly fine, balanced and justified, but any bias in favour of PMJG is misplaced and irrelevant.

You are every bit as biased as you accuse others of being.

The truth is that if Abbott had fooled the Indies into letting him take the reins of government, he would have reneged on every deal that didn’t suit him and tried to force a DD, which is BTW what he intends to do if he wins the next election and can’t get his way.

And for those who have conveniently forgotten, he deposed/stabbed Turnbull so that he could renege on the deal made with Rudd, in his nobel (?) pursuit of personal ambition.

Then went on to destroy the man who’s vote was instrumental in him gaining LOTO, the man he called friend 😆

Independent does not necessarily mean walking the middle ground, as there have been many references to right leaning independents in the makeup of this minority Government, so my understanding of Independent in the title of this site relates to being independent of the right wing moguls who dictate what we should and shouldn’t be told ie; facts, truth etc. 😀

Independent does not preclude a right or left leaning 😯

Just sayin’
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:20 pm

Teddysea, why block them while they’re making fools of themselves?

It may come as a surprise to you, but reb has his own blog where he can blow off. I don’t see anybody from here running over to tell him how to run it or what to post about.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:25 pm

True Miglo true. They are making fools of themselves. Over and over. Repetitive foolishness. And reb has his own blog?! Hmmmph. I guess he’s not getting enough attention over there lol!
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:27 pm

So true mischmash. WOMD! The LNP should wear that mantle with shame.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:27 pm

What continually amazes me it that people with strong political opinions don’t want them debated.

Back in the days when I took a more active interest, it was always the challenge and debate that was stimulating.

I don’t get people -who say they’re interested in politics, and comment on it, but don’t enjoy or appreciate politial challenge.

Odd indeed.
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:28 pm

Teddysea, I just went and had a look at his blog. He’s having a wow of a time running this place and some of our contributors down. To me this confirms that his only intention to come here was definitely to disrupt.
JasonFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:29 pm

Miglo,
Doyou know which one of his multiple personality’s is doing the posting tonight?
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:30 pm

“If you don’t like it you can leave”

Sounds like a meeting of the Young Liberals don’t it…?”

LOL! 🙂
Victoria RollisonFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:33 pm

ToM, I would welcome a post in response to my letter. And you can put your full name at the bottom of it. Like someone who’s proud to tell the world who they really are.
Catching upFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:40 pm

Maybe we can get back to the very good post. I do hope not too many have been frightened away.
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:45 pm

Silly bugger with his cheap and nasties. In the absence of a couple of big maori fellas to escort them down the stairs I’d just block the troublemakers at the front door Miglo. 😉
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:46 pm

“I’ve long suspected that reb was nothing but a closet Abbott Adorer”

An Abbott “adorer” now is it…?

Let me add that to the list… 🙄

Based on what exactly?
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:48 pm

It’s clear from the comments on this thread that this site is a closed shop for Gillard worshippers and anyone else with a slightly alternative view is not welcome…
teddyseaFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:48 pm

Miglo you’re doing a great job! And well written Victoria. 🙂
… and I’m hitting the sack.
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:49 pm

Victoria, before they could put a full name on it they would have to decide which ToM was going to write it! 😀
I would venture to suggest that the election would be over before that would happen 😀

Keep up the good work 😎

Cheers 😀
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

Come on reb, give it a break.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 10:55 pm

Am I wrong…….??
MargFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:58 pm

Well said Victoria – and here is why I don’t I like Tony Abbott. Let me count the ways! Because he cares nothing for the Australian people only for his own ego; because he would stoop to anything to become PM; because he has no integrity, admitting that much of what he says is not ‘gospel truth’; because he puts his wealthy party-donor mates ahead of the needs of working people; because he claims to be a christian but his actions are most un-christian, especially towards asylum seekers; because he refuses to answer questions at interviews, he merely trots out statements prepared by Peta Credlin; because he lies about the impact of the carbon tax; because he talks down one of the best performing economies in the world to gain some mileage for himself; because he lies about his knowledge of the Ashby conspiracy against Slipper -‘no specific knowledge??’; because he wastes time in Parliament throwing mud at the PM instead of getting on with debating legislation; because he spends his time performing stunts for the media instead of working for his constituents; and because it doesn’t matter how many daughters he has he is still a chauvinist and can’t accept the fact that he was ‘beaten by a girl’.

And why is it that the anti Gillard people such as those on the “Gillard is the worst PM’ site can only write vulgar obcenities and abuse? They put up no rational argument about policy at all. They all sound very uneducated and ignorant. Fortunately they are simply a loud minority.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:00 pm

“Hi Victoria. Great comeback to ToM.”

Bias showing much Migs….?
MigloFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:00 pm

Hi teddysea, I guess it’s best to just ignore them, as I will now do. I’m convinced their only intention is to disrupt, however, their continual squealing only makes themselves look childish.
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:04 pm

“ontinual squealing”

Is that what we call differing opinions these days?
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:06 pm

It appears that the only dissenting points that are valid and should be allowed are those of the right, sounds like a variation on Abbotts born to rule mentality…. They are right and the rest, including experts don’t know what they’re talking about 🙁

Very balanced 😯
rebFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:09 pm

Meh, what I find fascinating is that this site has quickly become a mirror image of everything they hate about the msm…

Lies, distortion of the truth, and unapologetic loyalty to the party of their choice…

Not to mention, the palpable hatred towards anyone who dare disagree..!

The irony and the hypocrisy is simply extraordinary…
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 11:18 pm

They keep going on about the PM lying..This is a load of Alan Jones shock jock slander to help the neo cons deceive their way in to power..Alan will do anything for the Lib/Cons..anything! ..The big lie campaign is a joke. The carbon tax hysteria has already been proven a joke, the channel gina 10 youtube of the PM saying there will be no blah blah..was CUT by them, faling to leave out what the PM said in the next sentence, that she would have an ETS if she was PM, they fraudulently cut out the ending and kept playing it over and over again till the minions were brainwashed with a lie from them, NOT the PM!.Howard wanted a carbon tax, Tony wanted a carbon tax, both on record..the PM has given us as she said she would..an ETS! What dirty players channel gina are!…Tony is a liar..and the biggest most obscene LIE by a PM was Howards LIE about WOMD!! Bush even gave the little man a medal for sticking to the script and sending us to an illegal war! There’s NO comparison to that big LIE, that big lie cost the lives of thousands of innocent people….and he got away with it scott free..Children overboard anyone?
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:29 pm

Migs, and would it do us any good if we tried? 😀
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:35 pm

Migs, so he’s taken his bat and ball and gone home…..what a shame 😀

Did that come across as insincere? 😳
Truth SeekerFebruary 9, 2013 at 11:54 pm

The irony and the hypocrisy is simply extraordinary… and now it’s gone back where it belongs 😀

Night all 🙂 😀 😆
mischmash1February 9, 2013 at 11:55 pm

The original very good post by Victoria made my day,..now I’m off to watch Gorillas in the Mist….gorillas make way more sense to me than Tony or any of his boys ever have or ever will..Again..thank you Victoria for a great letter expressing exactly what so many of us feel…One letter from a concerned woman gets so much dummy spitting from the big sooks, yet every day of the week we have to listen/read the worst slanderous biased media this counrty has ever seen. I have a new name for them..’Sooks Are Us’.
Cap'n TimFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:05 am

Excellent article Victoria. Leave the ‘troll’ replies in… I love it when they give themselves away.
They can rarely spell properly.
The grammar is generally dreadful.
They invariably spell ‘Labor’ party as Labour.
Their facebook pages usually indicate they stopped thei education at Year 9 or 10. They seem to like pit bull bogs, neo nazi sites, and disturbingly, seem to love the existing Australian flag.
But the dead giveaway is their ‘trump card’ Juliar. this is really the best they can do. Thank Alan Jones for this old chestnut. (If they really had any idea what Mr. Jones really got up to in his private life they would be very, very angry)
Malcolm Turnbull, by the way, evidently has shares in a telecommunications Company in France. They are installing fibre to the home, the very technology he appears to oppose.
el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:38 am

Victoria’s article is clearly biased (not that there is anything wrong with that) but what you need is a post by Reb or Treeman to get a different perspective.

This idea has merit because it offers the crowd from TPS and Cafe a chance to criticise the author and force them to defend their position. This should solve the problem.
el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:28 am

I haven’t given up on Migs, but if he continues to only have blatant leftwing biased posts then the site is no better than the Bolter’s rightwing diatribe.

What is required is a balance of posts so that the blog is robust and attracts a huge audience. A place where ordinary people, who have no particular interest in the politics, need to hear people arguing the toss so that they can form an opinion of their own.

Failing to grasp this simple concept is a fair indication that AIMN is going nowhere fast.
Truth SeekerFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:03 am

el dildo, do keep up, reb took his bat and ball and went home 😥

Cheers 😀
el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 9:37 am

Its all one way traffic, so people with alternative views are ‘trolls’. Now if Treeman could put up a guest post the world would turn upside down.

The 5th Estate cannot hope to emulate the MSM in news, but they can certainly outflank them with opinion.

‘I would consider that this could be considered a personal attack. As such, personal attacks are specifically not tolerated on this blog.’

Unless its mindless leftards doing the abusing.
MinFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:43 am

El gordo, how can anyone write anything except from one’s own perspective. In a mature debate you accept that the other person or persons have a different opinion, point out errors of fact and any erroneous conclusions drawn due to these errors of fact. However, to accuse an author of “bias” just because of expressing an opinion differing from one’s own is wrong, and I would consider that this could be considered a personal attack. As such, personal attacks are specifically not tolerated on this blog.
andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:00 am

Blah blah blah. You just dont know when to to give up el gorgo, what min said and others is exactly right.

If you want to rebut, do it with some facts to back up your claims not just outright attacks. Most here, if not all, would love to hear your factual claims and that has been said countless times but you are just not listening.

and yes Turnbull has bought shares in a FTTH project in France http://delimiter.com.au/2012/08/23/turnbull-in-conflict-of-interest-investment/
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:11 am

The threads here start with well written, thought provoking leads that have a pro ALP (as distinct from ‘left’) orientation. I think that’s fine – Miglo has said he is open to publishing other perspectives too.

I think problems occur when-
*Contributors call those that take issue with the author- ‘trolls’, and rarely bother to propose any rational analysis of the issue.
*Blog owners implore contributors to ignore alternative perspectives
*People simply argue on a partisan basis -particularly when contrary to actual, documented facts and events.

I always say that those that resort to name calling simply provide evidence that they have lost the debate.

This deserves to be a diverse and successful blog, the quality of the writers should help. But some of the indulgent comments won’t.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:32 am

Maybe Miglo, but (personally) I think I’ve been called a ‘troll’ here about a dozen or more times.

Those that use the term have not even attempted to reply with any rationality. It is actually those people who come here with the specific intention to disrupt the (reasonably) orderly political discourse that would otherwise occur.

Because they tend to be ALP supporters, they don’t appear to attract any opprobrium from authors or owners.
el gordoFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:40 am

‘…all I’ve noticed is that you condem/complain about the sites that don’t follow your ideals.’

Reb’s left of centre and I’ve always been further left than that, so I gravitate to left wing blogs.

My criticisms of the cafe are well founded, its a chat room.
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:18 am

El gordo, in the two years I’ve seen you around the Internet all I’ve noticed is that you condem/complain about the sites that don’t follow your ideals. You do your best to run down those sites before running back to reb’s site to brag about your behaviour. You there complain that all the sites you condemn are “all the same” yet it is you that is turning them into sites like that.

Please stick to the sites you like, such as those that are anti-Labor, anti-progress, or those in complete denial of the possibility of climate change.

If your only intention for coming here is to vent the same old complaints, then don’t bother.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 11:19 am

Miglo, I don’t read every comment on this site, so I can only base my opinion on those directed to me, and I think there are several ALP oriented people (quite distinct from “left”) who have the sole intention of disrupting reasonable exchanges.

I don’t know whether their behaviour is better or worse than el gorrdo’s, but I can’t really figure out why el gordo would be specifically singled out.
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:23 am

ToM, I would like to see the term “troll” absent as well, however, it is difficult when people such as el gordo only exhibit trollish behaviour. Perhaps we’d be better off if both the term and the behaviour were avoided.

The behaviour comes before the response. The action comes before the reaction.
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:34 am

ToM, do you condone el gordo’s behaviour?
730reportlandFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:42 am

” What is required is a balance of posts so that the blog is robust and attracts a huge audience. A place where ordinary people, who have no particular interest in the politics, need to hear people arguing the toss so that they can form an opinion of their own. “
You`re so full of bullshit gordo. When right-wing teabags last spouted this type of crap at reb`s (several-posts-back) l asked the teabags `Where their blog is?` to see if they had anything substantial to say, instead of interjecting with their snippets of bullshit. You would guess correctly Miglo, if you thought they died in the arse and went silent on the matter.
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:50 am

Thank you 7:30. It’s good to know I’m not alone.

I’ve seen enough of el gordo’s behaviour to know exactly what her intentions are. I’ve now decided that all of her comments will be held in moderation from this point on. If she is not willing to intelligently debate the topic, then her comments won’t pass moderation.
andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 12:15 pm

I have to agree mig, I just had a quick run back over the original post and can honestly say that el gordo came in commenting about none of the content, just came in with fists flying with comments about “Julia” or “Gillard” etc but completely missed any of the points that were raised (and brilliantly raised I say, MSM take note PLEASE).

Now as for the accusations of lyes etc, The GST was introduced and we are living and surviving well now with it. But those guys seem to forget one of the biggest lyes ever made, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixn9fFatdcs . So we are to believe anything the current LOTO says as gospel. He has no policies at all, just empty retorick and untruths that the MSM pick up on and plaster all over the front pages and on TV commentary. Throw enough mud and it will stick seems to be the only policy they have.

All I ask is they also follow the line of Truth in Politics that Turnbull espouses http://sortius-is-a-geek.com/?p=2673
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 11:23 am

El gordo has history, ToM. Surely you’ve noticed it.
daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 1:08 pm

why dont you do your homework a Labor supporter i suppose you would not know the truth if it hit you in the face. I believe Policies will be revealed in due course and not when you rednecks want them to be so you can steal them. i cannot wait for the truth to come out about all the scandals involved with this government.
andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:11 pm

Truth!!! Ha #ashbygate, WOMD, GST, babies overboard, FTTN is a better way to go (Turnbull et al), global warming is crap to name a few.

Truth is, and well documented, Lowest interest rates in how long, lowest unemployment in how long, best economy in the world, tripling of the tax free threshold (I presume you dont want that) therefore lower TAXES, pensioners finally getting a better pay.

Defecit, well sometimes that is how one has to live. If you have a mortgage,car, boat, second car etc and you are paying them off, that is also a deficit. can you afford to pay them off, well yes other wise you wouldn’t have them. will you pay them off, absolutely, that is the goal. that is the goal of any goverment but it should not be to the determent of the masses, which it appears will happen if LNP get in.

We are managing quite comfortably obviously, other wise we woudn’t have the conditions mentioned in the second para above.
Tom of MelbourneFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:26 pm

“El gordo has history, ToM. Surely you’ve noticed it.”

I think it’s fair to say that there are a few people with “history”, and (in my opinion and experience) such characterisations are usually very flawed.
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 1:53 pm

Daphne, do you honestly believe that the Coalition are holding back on their policies so Labor won’t steal them?

Have you not noticed the hundreds of pieces of legislation that have been passed during the term of this Parliament?

It is my own guess that the Opposition have yet to come up with any policies, other than to destroy what has already been built.
zwetschgenFebruary 10, 2013 at 2:57 pm

as a first time visitor to this blog, one is sadened that the escence of Victoria’s post has been lost midst an insult battle of opposing experts. perhaps time to stand back and read the article for its facts, imagined or otherwise, give it some open minded thought and then post sensible considered comments. It’s ok to have an opposing opinion, but no need for a battle to post the most ridiculous commentry
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 3:22 pm

Well said, zwetschgen.
daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 6:36 pm

yes i do believe that the coalition will reveal their policies when we get close to the election. Go back to when the Government first took power they were two billion in the black comes the global crash thank god we were in the black this so called Treasurer rushed through school bats where a couple of people died i think it was run by by Garrett, computers to everybody in schools which was abondoned $8oo given to single people i banked mine . School renovations which were dodgy Medicare Chronic Dental sc heme (mcdds) closed down. The new labor (cdhp) will be inferior to the existing scheme i can name many more stuff ups and as far as us pensioners are concerned we are worse off now than we were with the Coalition they also took the $500 off us so we really are receiving a pittance why not give to our own people instead trying to be big wigs overseas. You might be living quite well but i can assure you i am not and i do not drink or smoke. Sure they have got pieces of legislation through which ones are good . If we ever get connected to the new cable i will n ot be able to afford it so there goes my only pleasure. I believe that this Treasurer could not run a pig sty, he cannot even get close to his budget estimates so how could you say what reform you are going to make until you see the figures. O and so sorry if the spelling is not 100% we cant be smart like some people as they seem to think when you belittle people for not being able to spell you are the pits.
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 6:46 pm

Funny thing. Since that dental scheme has closed down. I have still has access top necessary treatment.

This is one pensioner that is definitely better off.

The computerisation of schools was much more than laptops. Suggest you visit a local classroom. Start with kindergarten.

Ask the teacher in the room, what they consider waste.

Yes, the laptops are coming to an end. Now we have the school kids bonus, which is one of the first thing on Abbott’s cut list.
teddyseaFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:27 pm

By a careful calculation of the phrasing .. and recognition of repetitive sentences and ideas .. I have deducted the el gordo is reb is tom of melbourne.
Even if he’s not .. what a waste your time.
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:35 pm

misch, mine was at Wyong Hospital. Would have love to have got back to Westmead, which I have attended over the years. Nothing but praise.

Did used that expensive scheme. Susrpise that I was eligible, as I have no ongoing disease.

The trouble was they were only able to remove one of my few teeth I have left and a minor filling. Took one sitting. Welll at least, I had clean teeth.

They refuse to take on what I really needed, a new plate. This is because I have a severe cleft palate,

That is why I wanted to get back to Westmead. Thirty years ago, they made me one of the best fitting plates I ever had. No suck luck with private dentist.

Yes, back to the dental hospital for the essential new plate.

Yes, got a good one, then was stupid enought to lose over forty kilos, leading to my new plate no longer fitting. Relined a few days before Christmas. The problem is not as goos a fit. I have a choice3. Put the weight back on, or put up with a loose plare. Afraid I will be putting up with this palte.

That is life.

Also, my son, out of work, managed to get dental treatment at short notice.
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:39 pm

As for the cost of linking up to NBN, have not seen any price list that are beyond most today. On this one, I would check, before believing everything that is said in the MSM or by the Opposition. Generally found to be incorrect.
daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:07 pm

how dare you say that i listen to Alan Jones i am quite capable of making up my own mind i have not only worked for Sir Arthur Fadden but also i worked for the Waterside Workers Union Office and Chooky Oliver was the Secretary I do not know if he is related to David Oliver of the A.C.T.U I can only say that this Union treated me like a lady not like the Federated Clerks Union who i think your Senate Rep was in charge at the time. Sadly i am not in the know like many of you on this panel who just want to push your labor agenda i am afraid i could not vote for this disfunctional government and after all the sordid affairs which have come out with Obeid, Thomson, Slipper etc i do not know how anybody could defend them. I watch Q uestion time in the Parliament and the Government never answer a question but defile people in the Opposition. I have handled wages you name it and the Unions will not give Employers a fair go they continually come onto the job site and disrupt the workings of the employers. For our country to survive we need to have small business as well as large working for us all we have is coal, gas and iron ore and if you are so smart tell me how many companies have gone bust since this Government came into power. If you are doing well on the pension please tell me how you do it are you living on love.
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:13 pm

daphne, are you trying to create an argument. If not, why so defensive, there is no need to be so on these sites.

As for spelling mistakes, most here do not judge.

Relaxed and I believe your opinions will be respected, if not agreed with.

Hope you have a happy stay.
mischmash1February 10, 2013 at 7:19 pm

Me too catching up..I’ve had great free dental treatment at Westmead..more than ever! Since Julia stopped Howards hand out to his rich mates on his ridiculous dental plan for rich people at the expense of us! I hope my treatment all gets finished before the election in case Mr Rich gets lifted on to his throne by his billionaire mates..He’ll wipe everything out for pensioners..Bronny Bishop said on Gina 10 that the pensioners rise, the biggest one ever by the great Labor Gvt will be clawed back by Abbott..He’ll take it all back and pay back his rich mates with the tax cuts they want..just like Johnny did.:( Terrifying prospect for the working class and pensioners..Daphne is saying all the lying stuff Alan Jones says..Oh dear…that’s sad…she has no idea what Abbott will do to her..no idea..Jones is such a consumate fear monger.:(
DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:23 pm

daphne, Peter Slipper was a Liberal MP who went independant, not a member of the Labor party. The case was thrown out of court by the Judge who saw no evidence of sexual harassment and decided it was a blatent case of using the court system to try and ruin Slipper’s career and brind down the government. Why hasn’t the MSM questioned TA on his letter to Ashby saying that Ashby “wouldn’t be out of pocket” in persuing the Slipper harasment? Sounds obvious to me, but why has no one questioned him?
You can seriously say you listen to question time and not notice every question from the Coalition is some form of attack on the Prime minister? How many months did virtually all questions relate to the AWU? In opposition, most parties put foward their own policies and with a bit of give and take between parties some of these go through? What has Tony done but say no to everything and not bring anything to the table himself?
As for not listening to Jones, you are doing a marvelous job of parroting the likes of him and Bolte. How could you look at the facts and come up with their arguments when theirs are such obvious distortions on the facts?
daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:24 pm

you think i am not being respectful go back and have a look at the remarks and there was a remark made about spelling and english catching up i dont care if you respect my opinions or not. i am not judging but stating the truth and its alright for you labor supporters to defile so if my remarks are not printed what does that say you dont have to respond
DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:27 pm

I think before stating “the truth” you should do more research to find “the truth”. The statements made by you are what has be presented as “the truth” byt Abbott, Jones, Bolte and their ilk. I letter further searching shows most of those “truths” to be distortions if not outright lies.
mischmash1February 10, 2013 at 7:28 pm

Hey Daphne – the chronic dental scheme for genuine low income working people and pensioners is running well..The only part closed down was the Howard dental scheme for the rich which stopped thousands of aussies getting treatment because it was costing millions a month to give rich people free dental…you really need to turn off Jones..that man is a shocking liar..and he’s also been arrested for sex offences loitering around a men’s toilet looking for gratification..he got nabbed by a plain clothes cop..Hardly a beacon of light and truth when he’s also paid by billionaires to scare the pants off you and tell shocking lies…NOT working for the working aussies, just his bank balance.. turn him off..you are talking rubbish when you parrot lies from alan jones the toilet loiterer..
DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:31 pm

How did these comments ever get so far off the topic of the article?
The article is about Tony Abbott and how most of what he does and says seems to have one goal, getting elected, and very little to do with improving things for this country other than making the already rich, richer.
It does not mention Gillard, or the Labor party, it is a letter to Abbott, about Abbott.
daphneFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:35 pm

Hi Darren i realise that Peter Slipper was a member for the Coalition but he has not been for a long time i believe there is more to come o n the Ashby case as well as the Cab Charge and the P.M. put him in as Speaker to shore up her nos in Parliament and i also think there is a lot more to come about with the A.W.U. and the P.M. you cannot watch the same question time that i do as i just wish the Government would answer the question and if you recorded the speeches it would be quite evident who casts vile remarks as i have said i do not listen to Tony Jones, Bolt or whoever but i do read. I would love to see a new party take off who could manage the country well give us more faith in politicans and i do believe that if the Labor party gets back in we will be a banana republic hope not.
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:48 pm

daphne, I am sorry that has happened.

Our problem is that we are becoming a little sick of people coming here for one reason only to attack.

I do not doubt, what you say, you believe to be the truth. The problem is that others. including myself do not see what you say ion the same light.

You have come across as a little aggressive and defensive. I am just trying to see if we can get past that, and make your stay enjoyable, even if you disagree with most of what we say.

I, for one, do like hearing what all have to say, and their reasons for believing so.

It is not them and us. We all live in the same community. The problem is that we all want different things.

Yes. I do live comfortably on the pension. This is I believe is because I own my very modest home. It is definitely not because I am a good money manager. The opposite is true.

I am also lucky to enjoy good health. I am not rolling in money, do live week to week, but then I have always lived this way, getting through one way or another.

Lets try to exchange thoughts, not insults. I would advise others to at least wait until the insults start flying.

Lets leave the attack dog mode as a last resort. Lets listen, so we can attempt to find out why so many appear to hate this PM and government. I, for one rally want to know the answer to that.

I am curious was the public perception of politics today, has nothing to do with the reality of our daily lives.

Why so many believe this government is the worse in history, while we reside in one of the best economies in the western world.

So much seems to be disconnect and simply does not compute.

I for one, would like to listen to daphne, to see if she can give us some insights from were she is coming from.

.
DarrenFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:50 pm

Peter Slipper was also recommended by the Coalition also and was a close personal friend of Abbott’s. Hey, he may have had some cab charge rortes, I have no idea. As for the “more to come” on Ashby, that is word for word from The Australian. Why is Labor souly responsible for anything he has done? I wonder how vaige “more to come” lines outweighs the Judge on the case?
A lot more about AWU… nothing more for Abbott to answer on the one nation slush fund he had nothing to do with then admitted he did? My my, what selective picking of subject matter. And given the article is about Abbott quite the strawman. Gillard could be Jack the ripper and it doesn’t make any difference to what was said in the article. If Gillard is bad does that make Abbott good?
I would like to see a new party too, I think the entire bunch of MP and their parties as having too many vested interest other than what they should be doing, that is the best they can for the country as a whole whether they are in the current government or opposition. People elected them to represent THEM, not play political games.
You have your views on Labor. I for one normally vote Liberal, but I can’t this year, not with Abbott as leader. It is not just what I have read (outside the MSM, as they don’t cover anything bad about him) but every word he utters. I am a listener, I sit back and watch and listen and see what people say and their body language and look beyond the words and “personna” they try to project. Every fibre of my being says self interested, narcotistic, sociopath when I listen to Abbott.
With Gillard, hey I am not a fan, she should be stronger, she is getting their but bows to popular opinion too much. I respected Howard in that respect, a bit of a fuddy duddy, a tight wad, let Australian infrastructure run down, but I respected him for sticking to his guns against popular opinion. Keating too, I respect what he says of Abbott. If he gets in “God help us”, because I don’t feel he gives a toss about the average Australian, he cares about himself and that’s all.
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:51 pm

Yes, daphne, I would love to hear some of your answers to issues raised in the letter.
BacchusFebruary 10, 2013 at 7:53 pm

daphne should recheck her pension figures too! $500 taken off you? It was $500 that wasn’t part of any pension scheme – it was purely largess handed out each year by little Johnny, hoping for exactly the result he’s got from you – mindless gratitude 🙄

Meanwhile the Labor government introduced the first real increase in pensions for many years.

http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/our-responsibilities/seniors/benefits-payments/australian-pensions-have-changed
teddyseaFebruary 10, 2013 at 8:59 pm

Fellas I know you are just playing with the troll but really I think daphne has other sites to try to disrupt. Let him go.
Crash SkepticFebruary 10, 2013 at 9:37 pm

CU wrote: “Our problem is that we are becoming a little sick of people coming here for one reason only to attack.”

Who is “We”? I thought this was the “independent” media network?

But we both know:
– Every. Single. Article. Here. Is. From. The. Left.
– And so are 90% of the commenters.
– And there is a subset of commenters who regard “the expressing of a conservative or right-wing opinion” as automatically being illegitmate.

So are we tacitly acknowledging that is a just another Tony Abbott hatefest? (like a hundred sites before it.)

PS – I do recall the other day you made extremely personal and unsubstantiated allegations that Tony Abbott forced a girlfriend to adopt a child out and abandoned her (in complete contradiction to all statements the woman has ever made publicly). And then you got the date of him entering a seminary wrong by… oh just 7 years.

So with respect, whilst accusing other possters of an aggressive style (and you may be right), but you could do with a little self-reflection yourself on what is fair-play in debate.

“Why so many believe this government is the worse in history, while we reside in one of the best economies in the western world.

So much seems to be disconnect and simply does not compute.

No disconnect, CU. It’s just enough of the population has a long-term memory and knows that the “best economy” was created by the previous administrations and has absolutely nothing to do with Gillard and Rudd (and yes, I give due credit to the reformist years of Bob Hawke).

I give no more credit to Gillard “inheriting a good economy”, that I suspect you would to Gina Rinehart for “inheriting a mining fortune.”

(Although I would note Rinehart took a $75 million inheritance and turned into $20 billion. While Rudd/Gillard took 12 surpluses in a row, and turned it into 5 deficits in a row, and in the process tripled our national government debt.)

Click on this graph from the IMF to demonstrate exactly how much they’ve spent over the last 5 years:
http://www.google.com.au/publicdata/explore?ds=k3s92bru78li6_&ctype=l&strail=false&bcs=d&nselm=h&met_y=ggxwdg_ngdp&scale_y=lin&ind_y=false&rdim=world&idim=country%3AAU&ifdim=world&tstart=756478800000&tend=1356094800000&hl=en&ind=false
Catching upFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:04 pm

Sorry crash, I keep forgetting that one must not say we, but I or some of us, Sorry for my mistake. I did really think that all of us would want the insults to stop. How arrogant of me.

Am I forgiven. I am now in trouble for trying to keep the peace. We, sorry some of us cannot have that.

As for the rest. I cannot even be bothered reading.

Independent means, I believe, not connected to the MSM media, which seem to be controlled by one man.

There are independents productions from all sides of the political; fence,

Independence from my point of view has nothing to do with being either left or right wing,

I have seen no evidence that you have been prevented from voicing your view.

it appears that it is only those from the left, that do not have this right.

No one has stopped you from challenging left wing views. What is your gripe.

Listening to QW and A the other night, many of the young contributors seem to believe there is. I definitely do.

Because you say so, does not make it so. It only brings home to me, you are one that the disconnect assist.

There is nothing wrong with my long term memory. It goes back much further than yours.

I believe, along with many of the present fay economist, that labor inherit an economy from Mr. Costello with many structural budget faults. I believe is was only a matter of time, that Howard’s mistakes came home to roost.

I believe we have survived the GFC, the worse since the great depression. A GFC that most of the western world still has not recovered by. I do not believe that Howard was a great PM. He inherited an economy that was on the mend. I judge Howard by the economy he left Hawke and Keating. During his stint as treasurer, we manage to have stagnation. Not a bad effort.

No, I do not believe this is the worse government ever. Maybe not the best, but far from the worse.

Funny thing about Labor PM. Portrayed and perceived as being bad while in power, and written up in a good light by history. The opposite appear true for those from the right.

This is particularly true for Whitlam and Keating. I suspect this PM will be seen in the same light down the track.

History will not be able to write out the GFC, as many on the right are trying do.

Waiting for the next round of put downs, which will surely come.
andyrobFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:20 pm

Geees migs I think you should shut this one down for comments. the whole point of the post is has gone. all this banter has nothing to do with the content of the post. It has desintergrated into, what apears to be, a standard day in parliament.

Stop it please.
730reportlandFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:16 pm

But we all know:
– Every. Single. Teabag. Here. Don`t. Have. Their. Own. Blog.
– And there is a subset of commenter`s who know
the expressing of teabag bullshit is automatically bullshit

So we are tacitly acknowledging that Mr-Rabbit
has non-core promises and no chance.

PS – I do recall the other day you made extremely hopeful
and unsubstantiated allegations that Mr-Rabbit cares.
MigloFebruary 10, 2013 at 10:51 pm

Hi andyrob, even though I didn’t write the post, I’m sure that Victoria won’t mind given the direction some of the comments have tried to lead us. Victoria rightly supports the view that people are free to offer alternate opinions on her topics, however, there have been several attempts to derail it. Personally, I would like to see her treated with more respect, as do you.

I’ll close the topic for comments as a new post will be up shortly anyway.

Cheers,

Migs.

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