“Abbot Point adds nothing to Australia’s carbon dioxide emissions. To state the bleeding obvious the coal is being exported out of Abbott point coal terminal it’s not being burnt at Abbott point, it’s being burnt by another country – India. We’re not responsible for Australian goods that are exported overseas and that are then used to produce carbon dioxide emissions.”
After reading the above quote from George Christensen I decided to pop over to his Facebook page to see what he was actually telling his constituents. It proved revealing, and disturbing.
When I asked if he had been misquoted, he replied
“Well, apart from being factual, what they left out of my statement was that the coal was needed in Indian (sic) and would come from somewhere so ultimately sending it from Australia doesn’t add to emissions.”
An interesting view.
When I pointed out that the government report on the Abbott Point expansion showed that it would only create “between 82 and 164 FTE positions, comprising 39 to 78 direct FTEs and 43 to 86 indirect FTEs, during the less than one year construction phase” (mainly going to construction workers who were already employed and finishing current projects) and that “After the construction phase, operational employment benefits would manifest for approximately five years in the order of one FTE,” and asked why we would put at risk the tourism revenue and jobs created by the Reef, George called me a liar.
“George Christensen: I think Dave Westman has proven you a liar or uninformed. Take your pick.”
I was rather taken aback by this aggressive response to what I considered a reasonable question but I quickly found out this is George’s approach.
When asked about 457 visa workers being brought in George said
“George Christensen: More green lies. No 457 will be allowed to work on the project unless an Australian can’t do the job and, let me tell you, we have plenty of Aussies in places like Mackay, the Whitsundays, Bowen, the Burdekin and Townsville ready to do the job.”
I wonder then about Gina Rinehart bringing in 1700 457 visa workers to work on her Roy Hill mine. Are there no Australians who were willing to work on that job or did they just want a compliant workforce who could be forced to work long hours for less than the minimum wage?
When someone suggested that George should stop blaming the Greens for bringing court actions due to the Minister’s stuff up, he replied
“George Christensen: Good on ya, Ron. The greens are the ones who take job-creating project after job-creating project to court to needlessly hold it up and they aren’t to blame? With that logic, the drunk driver isn’t to blame for his crash but the bar man who served him and the car manufacturer are! That, I have to say, makes you look really stupid.”
Another person suggested “Perhaps it’s time for the State/Fed Govts to implement renewables technology and take responsibility for those affected and retrain these people, and give them a future.”
George’s response: “Yeah. We can take all those jobs on wind farms and solar farms. Wait … There aren’t any!”
Perhaps unsurprisingly, the poster replied “Well if we had forward thinking elected reps in govt with something called a brain … Wait … That’s right there ain’t any.”
George has decided to oppose cuts to penalty rates. When asked “What do you think”, one poster replied “My view is why does this government seem to have it in for the poor? Every tax change they want to do always seems to target those that can least afford it. With direct regard to penalty rates most people do the overtime because there struggling to make ends meet Not because they want too.”
George’s response: “You’re wrong, Trevor. This government has no plans or policy to change penalty rates as I said. It doesn’t have it in for the poor.”
Yeah … right.
When asked about the 12,000 Syrian refugees, Christensen said “As many people on my facebook page would know, I have been quite critical of the intake of 12,000 refugees and have actively dissauded the government from having any resettled in the Dawson electorate.”
Way to help out there George.
He then went on to suggest that environmentalists against the mines in the Galilee Basin were motivated by racism.
“I knew you extreme greens were inspired by racism when it comes to Adani.”
He linked to an article he had written.
“EXTREME green groups are guilty of veiled racism in their relentless and targeted campaign against Indian company Adani and its “brown-skinned executives”.
They want to hark back to issues in other jurisdictions, but I’m wondering why they haven’t come out with stories of breaches by Australian, American or British-owned mining companies?
There are a plethora of these white-faced mining companies who have blotted their copy book in terms of environmental management of mines in other countries.
Why is it that the extreme green groups have only gone after a company that is headed by people with brown faces?
Why is it that these extreme green groups have only attacked a mining executive who has a brown face?
The extreme green racism needs to stop!”
But George’s bigotry towards Muslims is no problem apparently.
After trying to inject some truth in reporting on George’s page I was bombarded with abuse from his loyal followers which went along the lines of the following:
Bob McDowell: If you are a real person as YOU say, Kaye Lee, you probably need ongoing help with your substance abuse. There are some really good government schemes now which you would qualify for as you obviously don’t work or pay taxes. Good luck.
For someone like George Christensen to be employed outside the family business is in itself surprising. To think that he influences opinion and actually helps make decisions about our lives is truly frightening.
The thing I find most frightening of all is that the requisite number of voters are so ignorant that they believe George’s clear hypocrisy on just about everything he utters? He is the epitome of a greedy pig!
As a serving soldier I can tell you that the views of George are more In line with the Australian public than the views of this disgusting site that publishes the views of traitorous scum.
Kaye
the difficulty is that you are using scientific fact based on empirical evidence and that is always going to annoy the far right nut jobs who will retaliate with abuse and sarcasm – but never any facts.
I see Maurice Newman is at it again in the Australian :
‘Newman blasted the final Paris agreement, which aims to hold global temperatures to a maximum rise of 1.5C above pre-industrial levels, saying there was “no empirical scientific evidence” to support the policy.
He lamented that “without a Tony Abbott in Canberra or a Stephen Harper in Ottawa, no world leader utters a peep in protest”.
A noted climate change sceptic, Newman has accused western capitalist societies of giving up on rational thinking.
“They embrace junk science and junk economics and adopt wealth-destroying postmodern pseudo-economics, which teaches that taxpayer subsidies can produce desirable ‘economic transformation’ and faster growth,” Newman wrote in the Australian.’
Extracted from the Guardian.
Now all we need is Sir Lynton Crosby to come back and start spruiking “coal is good for humanity” and we’re off again on a loony tunes extravaganza.
As Maurice says, without bomb chuckers like Abbott and Harper we could be doomed to bequeathing to future generations a pristine atmosphere and breathable clean air ; doesn’t bear thinking about !
In between the rare moments when I’m not wanting to punch this utter twat repeatedly in the face (this would just break my screen) I just wonder in amazement how a moron like this actually got elected to such a position. He is a sociopath and a psychopath. Stupid, scary, and very dangerous. Learn to vote better, people.
Luke,
As a serving soldier, I thank you and your family for your service and sacrifice. Having said that, what gives you the right to speak for “the Australian public”? By all means express your own view, preferably supported by factual evidence, but you and I speak for no-one but ourselves.
PS My niece and her husband are both in the army and I can assure you, you do NOT speak for them.
By ‘serving soldier’ I am pretty sure ‘Luke’ means a computer game he plays in his parent’s basement where he’s currently living. The military don’t conscript anyone with an IQ of under fifty points. Bless, we all need a little fantasy to get us through the day.
Luke,
As a Veteran Defence Force Member, I am saddened to think that some people have your views on these matters, assuming you being a “soldier” would add weight to the matter.
Please don’t forward the crap you preach under the guise of “serving soldier”!
It gives neither you or the Defence Force any credibility.
Luke seems a tad confused… The vast majority of people on this forum are not chest-thumping American buffoons… the words of “a serving soldier” do not automatically make them any more valid than another comment. Try again Luke.
George Christensen is just the latest in a long line of Queensland ‘nutters’ who were elected (sometimes time after time -sometimes fortuitously) via ‘populism’. A simple formula based on exploiting the hopes and fears (particularly the fears) as a means to ensure political ascendency. Demagoguery if you like.
He treads the path well-worn by State members such as Tom Aikens, Russ Hinze, Joh Bjelke-Petersen and Vince Lester, to name but a few. And Federal members such as Pauline Hanson, Bob Katter, Barnaby Joyce, Clive Palmer, Albert Patrick Field.
At the local government level, the list is even greater. Yes Queenslanders are ‘different’.
PS, I think that Luke demonstrates that ‘common sense’ isn’t as ‘common as most believe. And isn’t even sensible at times.
I don’t blame George for being impatient with you. There’s (according to some) tens of thousands of jobs potentially available from expanding the Abbott Point loader capacity and developing the Galilee Basin coal reserves and you’re raising the issue of a much smaller (but not quantified) number of tourism jobs.
Whether he has a case about racism in your approach is another issue. I recall my days working in the Bowen Basin coal fields in the 80s when the industry leader (Utah) was the bete noir of the leftists, which I ascribed then to anti-Americanism. I think it’s just the standard leftist antipathy to overseas investment.
The anger and vitriole displayed by Christensen supporters is truly disturbing. Any question is met with name-calling abuse. Facts are ignored. That they are so scared as to label us as a “disgusting site that publishes the views of traitorous scum” would be funny except that people like Christensen and his followers feel empowered to spout their rot and accept what they are told without question. I truly worry about a constituency that could elect this man. It is perhaps unsurprising that Reclaim Australia has some traction in his electorate but the fact that he hasn’t been pulled into line speaks volumes about the inefficacy of the Nats leadership and their relationship with a PM who sold his principles for support for his ascension.
Brett Patterson,
“There’s (according to some) tens of thousands of jobs potentially available from expanding the Abbott Point loader capacity and developing the Galilee Basin coal reserves and you’re raising the issue of a much smaller (but not quantified) number of tourism jobs.”
Sigh. How many times must I repeat the government’s own modelling shows that the ongoing employment from the expansion of Abbott Point is ONE job (after the less than one year of construction). The number of tourism jobs was very clearly quantified in this report as in many others.
http://www.gbrmpa.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/66417/Economic-contribution-of-the-Great-Barrier-Reef-2013.pdf
Do you people never read anything?
Have you looked at the comments on this report, Kaye? There’s some pretty formidable anger and vitriol here, too. Among others is that long white kid who wants to punch George in the face. Is he a regular?
No, Brett, he is not a regular. Promoting violence is not what we endorse.
Hey, hey, hey. I’m getting some inappropriate anger from you, Kaye. The whole “don’t you people read” thing. Yes, I do read. What I was referring to was employment across the Galilee Basin when the loader is at full capacity. Would you please read my comment and address it, not a strawman of your own construction. I’d be happy if you are able to share an alternative perspective.
I’m not Kaye. I’m an admin here.
The biggest shame is, there are very few good schemes available for substance or any other abuse. Just says how little some know. Especially those who are quick to make judgments, handing out fallacious advice to others.
Maybe George’s family have too much respect for their businesses to let him near any of them.
I wasn’t going to reply to your utterly stupid initial comments about ‘standard leftist antipathy to overseas investment.’ Well we have plenty of that as well as plenty of coal mines. so how’s that working out? Not too well for our economy apparently. Someone who actually *thinks* considers possibilities like, say, ‘maybe after all this time, THAT is not working. Perhaps, just perhaps – we should try a different approach.’ Maybe they could try paying not just their fair share of taxes, but ANY taxes. Dude, you’re a blowhard and a troll. Go lick George Christenson’s boots, sounds like something you’d get off on. He’ll let you for a dozen pies.
Kaye Lee mentions “Do you people never read anything?” Apparently not as I refer to my screen when I talk about punching. Do not be dramatic and a shit stirrer. I guess that’s what you’re here for, though, Brett. People like you live for coming to sites like this and stirring up trouble. Run along, now.
More than happy to address your questions Brett. Adani’s own expert told the court that the mine would provide 1400 new jobs during the construction phase. The government report on the railway says it will provide •Up to 2017 (construction) •Up to 369 (operational). I have already quoted the figures from the government report regarding the port expansion. I have also linked to the revenue and jobs created by Reef tourism.
Railway http://statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/assessments-and-approvals/north-galilee-basin-rail-project.html
Port http://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/resources/project/abbot-point-apx/abbot-pt-eis-appendix-s-economic-impact-assessment.pdf
Mine http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/adani-carmichael-mine-to-create-1464-jobs-not-10000-20150427-1mumbg.html
I am not angry. I am very surprised by the lack of knowledge displayed by George and his followers because it is very important that we all know the truth.
Hey Luke, good opening gambit : always good to be provocative in your opening statement, it gets folk’s attention.
Not sure about calling your audience traitorous scum though or the relevance of your being a serving soldier but no doubt you will expand on this as you develop your thesis.
Look forward to it : over to you, mate.
longwhitekid,
Please keep the conversation civil. I don’t regard Brett as a troll. He is entitled to his opinion but I hope he is willing to back it up as I have done.
If Luke’s opinion are those of the Armed forces, it really is time to despair for our/my country.
I don’t want You, Luke, representing me in any way and if you don’t like my or Kaye Lees’ opinions I suggest you bugger off.
Kaye, the very topic of George Christensen negates all civility to begin with.
Kaye Lee
Maurice Newman is another who places ideology over facts:
“But then climate change is not about credible scientific evidence,” he wrote.
“It has its roots in Marxism, and ultimately the Green Fund is presided over by the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change, run by Costa Rican Marxist Christiana Figueres.”
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2015/dec/28/climate-sceptic-maurice-newman-says-world-leaders-embracing-junk-science
These white men would be laughable if not for the very real fact they get to state their nonsense nationally.
People like Christensen are something out of a totalitarian nightmare – only his way or no way, sheesh.
They are very scary people.
I was asking about the employment opportunities for the whole coal basin.
Long white kid, you’re very clearly the troll here. I’m not going to match abuse with you (it’d be that classic case of a battle of wits with an unarmed man, or, as you quite tellingly describe yourself, kid). Your childish rantings might be satisfying for you, but they do lower the tone of this page. You’ll see that the administrator is also unimpressed. It’s the vitriol and anger that Kaye refers to and, in fact, what most thinking people give short shrift to. Now go away and grow up.
Excuse me Brett but the lies posted by Christensen make a lot of people angry. I note you have not contested any of the facts I have provided so please stop attacking individual posters and present the proof to back up your argument as I have done
Thank goodness for Kaye ? Thank you once again
I also watch with interest to the response to any of the three links provided above, which I might add are now fairly well accepted almost everywhere, including in the MSM.
The likelihood of Adani proceeding beyond the ‘talk’ stage is extremely unlikely. Finance is a real problem with 11 banks refusing to ‘advance’ and Adani being ‘broke’.
Christensen’s latest thread….
“The lefties over at AIM are a tad upset with my views and yours! Classic! I hope you’re all enjoying the Christmas break. Regular posts will be back in the New Year.”
Reading the comments which follow shows that talking facts to Christensen and his followers is a pointless waste of time. He completely ignores the government reports as he pops around abusing anyone who asks a question.
I am flabbergasted by the childish response from a man who is paid a great deal to listen to experts and make informed decisions.
Luke, being a serving soldier doesn’t entitle you to speak on behalf of the rest of the community, it’s totally irrelevant. Reading your comments I feel it’s a bit of a worry that people like you can get into the ADF.
My question was about employment in the whole Galilee Basin coal fields that will follow from this expansion of the coal loader capacity. I don’t question your estimate of one job permanently created at the loader itself, but that isn’t the issue.
You’ve provided a Fairfax press report that disputes a 10,000 estimate and suggests that 1500 jobs will be created at one mine. There are press reports estimating 25,000 new jobs across the GB coal fields, making it comparable to the Bowen Basin. I expect that your estimate will be less than 25,000 but more than 1500 (and more than one!).
Look, I think I did all of us a favour in dealing with that kid. I had to give him a serve (he had a couple of cracks at me first). Hopefully, we won’t hear from him again.
If you are able to provide lies from George, sure, report on them here. I thought you were just upset with his brusque manner and his suggestion that you are racist. I’ve gone back and reread the report. You’ve written that he’s a bigot, but I haven’t seen that substantiated.
Brett,
George willingly, eagerly in fact, spoke at a Reclaim Australia rally. He has campaigned against halal food and the choice some women make to wear a veil. He has refused to help refugees – “we don’t want them in Dawson”. He has said that the Abbott Point expansion will be a huge employer for the area. As you have conceded, ongoing employment for one person is NOT a boon to the electorate.
George is not important enough to upset me personally but I get very angry when he misleads people by telling them the Abbott Point expansion will provide jobs.
I have provided you with the official estimates of job creation. They didn’t come from Fairfax, they came from Adani’s own expert witness and the Queensland government who are in favour of the proposal so I doubt they would underestimate the possible job creation.
You seem a reasonable man. Does truth count?
Wow longwhitekid calm down. My facebook page has heaps of lukes who believe it is not the septic or isis guns that kill or the swords that behead. It is the people who wield the weapons.
He understands that training is aimed at removing the normality of people and replacing it with indoctrinated order. I doubt if he can even care, much less discuss, where the weapons and ammunition used against him come from or whether that is worth considering.
It is frightening to remember what my dad stood for during his life after WW2 but, like Kayes relatives, it was certainly not george and with ‘disgusting site’ ‘traitorous scum’ luke is closer to the people my dear old dad fought against.
It should be easy to tire george out and then ply him with liquor whilst explaining the use of 457 visas, the China FTA that allows unlimited visas for Chinese workers including these trades (without any qualification checking) Automotive Electrician Cabinetmaker Carpenter Carpenter and Joiner, Diesel Motor Mechanic Electrician (General) Electrician (Special Class) Joiner Motor Mechanic (General) Motorcycle Mechanic
Luke, I do hope for this country’s sake, you and your comments are wrong. I like to believe Australians are made of better stuff than what you and your ilk are.
It really is frightening to know that somehow this brainless waste of oxygen managed to end up in the parliament. I surely hope that at the next election the people of Australia who voted for this and the rest of the LNP scum wake up to themselves. If this was just affecting the electorates that voted for the likes of Christensen and the rest I wouldn’t care, but unfortunately it affects the whole country and they have already done more than enough damage in the last two years.
Where we differ, Kaye, is that I view a loading facility as just a loading facility. If expansion of its capacity will result in an increase in coalfield employment (whether it’s 25000 well paying jobs of the type I held in the 80s, or just 1500), then that sole lonely extra boom operator at the coal loader itself is not the issue. That’s it in a nutshell and we don’t have to go back and fro any more. We can put our feet up, content that we agree to disagree. To be very clear: I view the increased employment at the loader itself (by one) as utterly irrelevant.
I’m still not sure George is a bigot. Your biggest issue there, raised in both your report and your comment, is that George says his electorate doesn’t want refugees in Dawson. Do you know that they do? Anyway, George has said that’s how he will represent them and they will have the choice on whether they agree with him on that and the employment issue soon.
I have a life to live now. I’ll leave you with the last word.
I don’t want to com e between the love fest which is the AIM and George Christensen. I just wanted to pick you up on one item in the story. You said that Gina Reinhardt employed 1700 457 workers on Roy Hill. That is incorrect. To get finance to commence th construction phase of the mine, she had to prove she could get the workforce in place. Labor approved the use of 457’s if locals could not be found, paving the way for the mine to go ahead. There were very few (less than 50 I think) 457’s actually employed on the project. Now you can go back to bagging George for getting people in his electorate jobs.
There is a difference between serving your country and serving a political party or the like of the ADL.
If you really are a soldier you serve for all australians not just the white ones.
“An afternoon with George Christensen”
Do we have to? I’d rather spend an afternoon with my in-laws.
Ewan, could you provide me with your source for that information because it is totally at odds with every other report from the government and media?
Also, Gina got her finance from the States by promising to use their steel and equipment. That bank has since been shut down.
“Mining heiress Ms Rinehart’s Hancock Prospecting last year secured a $US694 million loan from Ex-Im, in return for the Roy Hill project purchasing mining and rail equipment from US companies.{”
http://www.afr.com/news/world/north-america/us-exportimport-bank-that-finances-gina-rinehart-rio-tinto-shuts-down-20150630-gi20kv#ixzz3vbNBxzVp
And could you also provide me with information about the jobs George has got for the people in his electorate? I can’t find any.
Brett in most seats there is around 50% who are not in agreement with MP elected, regardless of party or Independent. Why do those on the right believe they are superior to anyone that happens to have differing views.
Up to recent times, parties agree with most, than having completely opposing views.
Most legislation was improved when proper debate occurred in at least Upper House, the senate.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/09/21/comment-george-christensen-makes-me-embarrassed-be-queenslander
http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/taxpayers-fund-george-christensens-books-climate-d/2502531/
“Love fest which is the AIM”. Oh FFS what is it with right-wingers? If the left agree on anything it’s called a love fest or group think. Yet if the right agree on anything they proudly boast to have a consensus. Laughable.
George Christensen is a bigot and a clown.
If poor old Georgey Porgey had a brain, he would be dangerous. I mean, there is not one redeeming feature about this man. The poor sod has charisma in spades, not. He looks like a bag of shit tied in the middle and he is about as articulate as a well pissed up sailor, who has been at sea for six months. How the likes of Christensen and his ilk get into parliament should be one of the compulsory units in the curriculum of any decent university for a degree in Psychology. I would think a student in his first month of study would come to the only conclusion possible about Christensen. He is barking mad, bonkers. When one considers the Federal government in total, Christianson is just one of the many half wits that grace the halls of parliament house. The election of some of the members, i.e. Dutton, Pyne, Morrison to name but a few, will have political pundits confused for a hundred years. Come back from the grave Billy McMahon I was wrong about you.
An Afternoon With George Christensen,hosted by Andrew Bolt,1.30 PM Sunday on Channel 10,dont miss it, Andrew will be asking George why coal is good for humanity,followed by a 5 minute prayer session to pray for the millions of poor suffering souls in India who are praying to their God for the coal to arrive from Australia.
Now that scenario sounds pretty silly,but i believe that the way things are going it might not be too far away,and dont forget,Bolt has a show on ABC coming soon to talk about indigenous issues’, and who would have thought that possible even a couple of months ago.’?
You cannot talk facts or logic with these people as they dont believe in either,and George will go to his grave believing he is right,all we can do is to try and stop good but gullible uninformed people from voting for George and his ilk.”
Ewan,
An industry report stated
“The company employed 1,715 foreign workers on 457 visas for its $9.5 billion Roy Hill iron ore project in Western Australia’s Pilbara region.”
http://www.prepareforaustralia.com.au/employment-australia/industry-reports/mining-oil-gas.aspx
I am waiting for your proof that “less than 50” 457 visa workers were employed.
Is George Christensen a bigot?
Only if you define bigotry as consistent expressions of fear/contempt/loathing based upon irrational prejudice.
George says of women; “the truth is women are stupid and that’s that”.
George reckons fellow Australians are ‘terrorists” for opposing ill-conceived proposals, even if by entirely legal means.
George happily stands with militant extremists like the ADL and UPF (we-claim straya).
By his defamatory and divisive statements and extremist associations, George Christensen shows himself to be an odious, ignorant and bigoted character, and the good people of Dawson electorate should consider themselves very poorly represented.
What happens to the coal loading facilities, if no one wants to buy coal anymore?
George’s comments about the greens being racist are ridiculous. The greens consistently take on corporate entities of all persuasions. Barrick Gold, Rio Tinto, Exxon, etc. It is fluff. But it sells. He has taken over the reigns from Deanne Kelly, a notorious fluffer. It is no wonder he is in his position in Dawson, an electorate I used to live in.
KL, let’s imagine your argument(s) and others here win in the ‘logic stakes’ and you’re right to confront what is clearly wrong re ‘facts’ and the like. Your intentions being above reproach. But what about the outcomes of debates such as these?
Joh Bjelke-Petersen rejoiced when the ‘elite’ questioned him and used ‘big’ words, ideas, concepts and the like somewhat above and apart from everyday discourse (same with Pauline Hansen, Bob Katter and others). To be ‘articulate’ as well and not ‘stumble’ was an added bonus. It allowed these types of players to get ‘down and dirty’ (identify) with their constituents and prove that ‘I am just like you’. It’s me and you against the world.
Therefore, we should entertain the notion that George Christensen is the real winner in debates such as these. He loves them because they reinforce the notion in the electorate that ‘he’s one of us’ and not ‘one of them’. Again it’s me and you against the world
The ‘them’ being ‘educated’ people who know how to express themselves logically, employ facts, differentiate between sense and nonsense and are confident in so doing and the like.
Thus the irony might be that while intentions are good the outcomes might be bad.
Christensen routinely blocks constituents who have the audacity to press him for further clarity. In my experience he relies on the small town mindset of dawson that almost guarantees a short fall in the critical thinking department.
Are people really that ignorant to believe anything this idiot of a man says. Makes me wonder about my fellow Australian.
Yep! But his electorate is not alone. (See above).
The education system and other institutions in the ‘superstructure’ such as church, MSM and the like fail as.
But that’s how it’s supposed to work. Who is surprised?
“Never fight with a pig. You’ll both get dirty, but the pig enjoys it.”
(A condensed version of comment by Matters Not at 9:25 pm)
“I don’t blame George for being impatient with you. There’s (according to some) tens of thousands of jobs potentially available from expanding the Abbott Point loader capacity and developing the Galilee Basin coal reserves and you’re raising the issue of a much smaller (but not quantified) number of tourism jobs.”
Then let him make that point rationally and politely like numerous other politicians do, instead of insulting people.
Matters Not,
I understand what you are saying. To prove your point…..
When one commenter was asked if he thought lefties were better educated he replied
“Andy Watts: Not at all, university attending, good for nothing unwashed scum”
I must say, trying to converse with these people is giving me a headache. I do realise they thrive on conflict but there have also been quite a few people who have read the links I have provided and commented on same. It’s hard to know what to do but I will stick with the teacher instinct of trying to inform people of the truth and taking pleasure when you see a glimmer of interest and understanding.
Christensen’s ignorance and misinformation is dangerous so I will do what I can to give information to his constituents so they can make informed decisions. If some choose to abuse me for doing so, so be it.
As I posted on George’s page, “Let’s be very clear here. Unlike George, I am not a member of any political party. Unlike George, I have no vested interest other than as a citizen. I do not want or expect anyone here to take my word for anything which is why I provide links to information from government and industry sources, once again, unlike George. If anyone can show me, with evidence, that anything I have said is wrong I would truly appreciate it. All I am concerned about is the truth, unlike George”
Yes KL, there’s no simple solutions. I note that:
Perhaps you could point out that George went to a ‘University’. Won’t mention name of same, so there won’t be shame.
As for ‘conflict’, I think that’s how society ‘works’. To remove same, suggests that one side has won and another side has lost. And I think I know whose side usually wins
Matters Not, you’ve just explained a quote which, though I found hilarious, I could never understand what he was thinking:
Thank you.
I think that ‘condensed versions’ might be part of the ‘problem’ as well. ‘Slogans’ are condensed ‘versions’ that evoke ‘biases’, ‘prejudices’ and the like (meanings). They are crafted to appeal to base motives. And as we know, they work.
When Whitlam et al developed It’s Time, it was more than a three word slogan. The words were:
It’s Time
It’s time for freedom,
It’s time for moving, It’s time to begin,
Yes It’s time
It’s time Australia,
It’s time for moving, It’s time for proving,
Yes It’s time
It’s time for all folk,
It’s time for moving, It’s time to give,
Yes It’s time
It’s time for children,
It’s time to show them, Time to look ahead,
Yes It’s time
Time for freedom,
Time for moving, Time to be clear,
Yes It’s time
Time Australia,
Time for moving, It’s time for proving,
Yes It’s time
Time for better,
Come together, It’s time to move,
Yes It’s time
Time to stand up,
Time to shout it, Time, Time, Time,
Yes It’s time
Time to move on,
Time to stand up, time to say ‘yes’,
Yes It’s time
Whitlam’s ‘slogan’ had ‘meat’. His intentions were relatively clear. Today’s slogans allow for any ‘meaning’ to be given. And that’s why they are (ironically) so effective.
The ‘education’ system has much to be accountable for. LOL. Just jokin
Miriam English, I once dealt with a delegation from the Exclusive Brethren (they have significant political power) who wanted their children excluded from classes that dealt with computers (and other modern technologies). As I recall, there were about 6 of the male variety who requested parking spaces for their very modern vehicles which they occupied at the agreed times.
They then entered computer controlled elevators to rise 20 plus Floors to explain why their offspring’s education shouldn’t be contaminated by computers and the like. I listened, and nodded at the appropriate times and then pointed out that the vehicles they arrived in had X numbers of ‘computers’ embedded, the lifts that elevated them and so on …
They declined my offer that they descend the 20 plus Floors via the fire escape so they could be ‘pure’.
BTW, the kids were not excluded from such classes. Their request was stored in the ‘circular file’. Otherwise known as a rubbish bin.
Previously I was accountable for their maths tuition. Now I am spreading my net wider. I must say, I did better when I stuck to teaching maths but I refuse to give up.
Matters Not, I taught kids who were Plymouth Brethren. Not only were computers considered a tool of the devil, videos were out too. Any discussion of geology and evolution was out, and we even had to set a different English text for them. I also got a very pointed letter from them when I went on strike for smaller class sizes. Apparently I should have been honouring politicians rather than questioning them.
Great! So do I. But while maths (and logic) has ‘truth’ on its side (given certain assumptions), the social, moral and other endeavours have to be forged on the political anvil.
It’s not for the faint hearted.
KL, I could tell more stories re Exclusive Brethren but that’s for another day or night.
And Australians vote idiot like this in to represent the electorate.
Why? Doesn’t ‘education’ have an obligation (moral imperative) to give kids an opportunity to escape the limitations of their own backgrounds?
Who decided that a ‘different English text’ was the way to go? And why?
Yes, I realise that ‘pragmatism’ might be necessary at times but sometimes a stance is necessary and desirable.
Granted it’s much easier when you are higher up the totem.
If only I had my time again .. I could have saved the world just jokin
I looked at George’s FB page.
It’s perfectly clear how he got into parliament – he was elected by his peers.
Frightening doesn’t begin to describe it.
Education begins at home and it is sometimes impossible to undo the damage that results from parents repeating the mistakes of their own parents.
Luke
As a serving soldier I can tell you that the views of George are more In line with the Australian public than the views of this disgusting site that publishes the views of traitorous scum.
What an offensive serve.
I was of the opinion that soldiers served to protect our way of life of being bigots, racists, and rednecks which you and George epitomize and other respectable moderate folks like ourselves on this site.
The only traitors in Australia are the LNP and their rabid rusted on supporters who are selling out the people to big business and Luke it will be your kids that will suffer.
Neither George nor his followers are particularly enamoured of the truth. It doesn’t suit George’s agenda & his loyal followers swallow whole every thing he tells them. They have no logical, fact backed arguments & so, without fail, resort to abuse as a typical response. George constantly shows his immaturity with his many insulting, gloating comments & is forever patting himself on the back in congratulations for his “achievements”. However, just do a web search for that & you will find that even Google crosses out the word achievements, simply because there are none! His Facebook posts are full of half-truths & outright lies. His Twitter rants are ludicrous. He accuses others of bigotry whilst parading his own & doesn’t see the hypocrisy. His love-fest with Guatam Adani & Co is just cringe making. I live in Mackay! Do you have any idea how embarrassing that is with this raving lunatic as our “representative”? Kaye, it’s a pity you didn’t think to question him on just how Adani proposes to power the Carmichael Mine, should it go ahead. There are no power sources out there in the Galilee Basin, they will have to build a power plant (it’s part of their proposal) & you can’t tell me that they will buy coal from somewhere else to burn in it. Which completely blows apart his argument of this coal not being burnt in Australia. He only says it won’t be burnt at Abott Point, which is totally true, but he never mentions the mine itself in that regard. I somehow don’t think the biggest coal mining catastrophe in the world is going to be run on solar, do you?
TS,
I did mention the power plant briefly in the context of them trying to extinguish native title:
Queensland’s coordinator-general is proposing to extinguish native title over a leasehold property held by the Indian mining giant Adani, which would allow the company to begin building infrastructure for its $16 billion Carmichael coal mine.
Adani bought the pastoral lease for Moray Downs in 2012. But the company now wants part of the property converted to freehold so it can build an airport, power station and accommodation for its mine in central Queensland.
Adani has been negotiating with the Wangan and Jagalingou people for three years over a proposed Indigenous Land Use Agreement in an effort to have native title over Moray Downs removed, but no agreement has been reached. If the acquisition goes ahead, native title claimants would be free to claim compensation. It is believed that it would be the first time native title has been extinguished against the wishes of traditional owners for the sake of a private sector infrastructure project.
“It’s only ever used by the Government for very large projects for obvious reasons, because it’s a fairly draconian power,” Professor Jonathan Fulcher of the University of Queensland Centre for International Minerals and Energy Law said.
“The controversy here is the exercise of that power without consent, and that is a controversial thing to do, particularly in relation to native title land.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-27/proposal-to-extinguish-native-title-over-key-adani-mine-property/6979998
The funny part is that the port is supposedly going to be powered by renewable energy
“In order to mitigate the effects of port operation on climate change, Adani proposes that it powers up with renewable energy: “Adani recognises that measures to reduce [greenhouse gas] emissions through energy efficiency and the use of renewable energy technologies or low emissions materials make good business sense. Consequently Adani will commit to reducing GHG emissions through its procurement and operations practices.”
The irony of a coal port being powered by solar aside, should we interpret this statement as meaning that we shouldn’t worry about the 700 million tonnes of CO2 facilitated by this project because Adani will be buying recycled paper?”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-11/phillips-abbot-point/5150338
On ya, KL.
Reading through this blog reminded me of a CEO I worked for in a past life who came up from the shop floor to head a major heavy engineering group.
If he had a question at a Board (or any) meeting he would regard the question as an annoying end sticking out of a ball of wool which perhaps should not be there and kept asking questions until either the piece had an end or the ball would completely unravel.
Needless to say, all reports and presentations were accurate and explainable lest the author be left “hanging” at the table.
Me thinks there is an analogy here and a way forward for contributors – there is power in asking questions – balls of wool eventually unravel …….
This appears to be an impartial overview of the inflated employment figures being spruiked by supporters of the Adani Australian Adventure :
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2015/8/31/policy-politics/fact-check-will-adanis-coal-mine-really-boost-employment-10000
This comment sums up how people like Christenson help to spread false and misleading information:
“Christensen’s largely incorrect claims raise another issue. Not only do economic consultants produce entirely misleading and contradictory results, but the people who use the results go on to misuse them, quoting selectively and presenting them without context.
The modellers and their clients know that journalists and public servants lack the time or expertise to adequately scrutinise economic assessments. Or as Christensen might put it – the modellers and their clients are helped by a biased and/or lazy media and bureaucracy.”
all about the dollars and Christensen just another pawn on the adani payroll . even with common sense that abbott point dredging will destroy parts of the reef , it makes no difference . only one god George and u walking on it and that’s a bloody shame
and kaye sorry for ever doubting u, can see u will never be brought. u just writing harder , your a very good person and writer . maintain the rage
the 457 issue raised by Ewen, well what can I say other than the Union looked into Gina’s 457 issues.http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-04-04/cfmeu-alleges-457-visa-workers-exploited-by-roy-hill/5367816
200 are white collar so Ewans point fell apart very easily, as do most troll allegations
Latest from The Drum:
.
I suppose it’s just the usual ABC bias.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-29/verrender-a-turning-point-in-the-future-of-coal/7057474
Getup is calling for donations to mount yet another legal challenge to the Adani mega mine.
They may be regarded as ‘lefty loony nutters’ and ‘traitorous scum’ by the likes of George and his chorus of reclaimers, but while the reclaimers rant and rave and demonstrate their aggression, Getup is continuing with its calm, positive approach to the Adani raiders and their LNP apologists.
GetUp members have a strong history of taking on huge targets in court, and winning. In 2010, GetUp launched a High Court challenge that helped get 100,000 more people enrolled to vote. In 2013, 14,000 GetUp members chipped in to fight off Greg Hunt’s Abbot Point coal teminal approval, twice.
Let’s do it again: https://www.getup.org.au/abbotpoint
A message for George!
George Christensen and the LNP in general have reached the point where they actually believe the bullshit that they speak. If you keep telling yourself the same thing over and over eventually you end up believing it and no matter what people with an open mind say they cannot easily undo the self generated brainwashing.
Ewen, if you’re the Ewen Jones the electors of Herbert have the misfortune to have as an MHR, don’t you think you owe Kaye, and by extension the rest of us an answer?
Or are you worried it might come back to bite you come campaign time?
It looks as though Adani are fitting in to the Australian corporate taxation system.
Among companies with earnings over $100 million in 2013/14 was Adani Abbot Point Terminal Holdings Pty Ltd. with income for that year stated at $ 268,376,014 .
No prizes for guessing how much tax was paid but it starts with Z…….
David,
It is indeed Ewan Jones MP for Herbert. I am astonished at the ignorance of these people who are being paid to make decisions about our country. To say that Gina Rinehart only had 50 457 visa workers at Roy Hill is a downright lie.
Notice how Kaye Lee and the admin are willing to address one of their members who seems to have gone too far in getting their point across? This is obviously a person of a similar viewpoint to themselves but they are not protecting them in any way.
Compare that to Brett Pattinson who is quite eager to call out an AIM member when they go too far but is just as eager to ignore the likes of Luke who you’d assume if not exactly mirroring the same viewpoints of Brett, he’d be closer to Brett’s thoughts than that of the average Aim member. Fairs fair Brett, if you call out longwhitekid for going too far with an opposing view, you should call out Luke for exactly the same. Also you were eager to believe longwhitekid wanted to physically beat up George which is what started all this(because he was your big example of the horrible people on this site)and when it was pointed out that he meant punching the screen you failed to mention this.
You seem intelligent enough Brett, even if you have an opposing viewpoint and if you want to stay around and debate things, that’s great! However if you want things to be called down the middle(which is a reasonable thing) you should be as equally willing to call out people on your side of the debate as you are the people on the other side of the debate. Perhaps admitting to longwhitekid that you misread things to might be a good start to a long future on here as well(even if you still find longwhitekid on the nose, surely you’d still want to be the better man and address the error you made?).
Now that I have that off my chest, back to Luke.
You guys would be suprised how many soldiers do think like that(even if they may express themselves better than Luke did). Our former MP Mike Kelly is ex-army who got ousted at the last election because of a likely local protest vote against Labor(he is standing again in next years election and will likely win regardless of the overall national vote because he himself is popular and nobody seems to care for the non-entity that is the Liberal member that we have now). There are so many right wing trolls that heckle Mike on facebook who more often than not turn out to be current serving, or ex-soldiers themselves.
Edit:-According to the email I just recieved, I accidently made this post in reply to someone, rather than a post on its own, so apologies to that person for them being bothered haha.
Too funny.
That defender of free speech, George Christensen, has blocked me from any further comment on his page. Too many people were asking questions. We can’t have that now can we.
If someone could be bothered I would appreciate it if you could just mention on his facebook page that I have been blocked because I was actually in the middle of a discussion and I would like to explain that I am not ignoring their questions. I do feel that linking to my article and then denying me right of reply is a tad unfair George.
I would hope that “serving soldier”, Luke shows a bit more tenacity and commitment defending the nation than he does defending his words!
Done, Kaye.
Will I be blocked too?
Although in my case, I won’t be going back anyway.
I see Brough and Briggs have both slipped a notch. But no alternatives are promising 🙁
Thanks margcal. And you won’t be missing anything by not going back. The teacher in me wants to get people asking questions and that is what happened so I guess my job is done anyway. I just find it amusing that George bleats about free speech but cannot handle it when it is directed towards questioning him rather than vilifying Muslims. 🙂
I wonder will Ian MacFarlane get a recall?
Kay.
With the icke article you were supportive of laws on censorship for people you dont agree with.
Obviously christianson didnt agree with you views. So now how do you feel about laws on censorship and who enacts those laws?
From what I have read, you tried intelligent debate and then they blocked you to silence your view.
Yes, there are many lefties out here, who are willing to put their money where their mouth is, in backing Getup. Yes handing over money for campaigns and court cases. having wins as well.
Yes us Lefties do more than whinge.
Ewan Jones is making a habit of standing up for his colleagues, whether they are worthy of support or not.
Queensland MP Ewen Jones, who describes Briggs as a man of “immense talent”, says: “I have the upmost faith he will come back”.
Everyone else has described Jamie as an arrogant idiot who can’t handle his grog. But Ewan is entitled to his own version.
Does a serving soldier know who (s)he is serving or why? I wonder if it means we all have to think a bit more deeply about service, sacrifice and the like are actually about.
By all means acknowledge acts of guts, say involving the nurses force marched to death through Borneo in ww2, ot some VC winner who died protecting eight others. From this we get to ask why do people disagree so on other examples, say the Aborginal hero Jandamara, ot perhaps less safely the recent examples of people fighting for causes for often good intentions whilst evoking either sneaking approval or loud condemnation depending on a person’s politics.
I suppose it becomes to fair to ask why some people fall for unscrupulous tossers like “Lord” Monckton, Maurice Newman or Rupert Murdoch and others, beyond that things become more a matter of judgement, god willing at least to the awareness of consequences lurking in the back ground.
The closest us common folk get to power is the 4 minutes it takes to complete ballot paper thrice every 3-4 years – in between times suck it up and think of England – (human construct) – GetUp is the next best thing (so far) for the in between times.
Power is not taught as a subject (also a human construct)
Katy, re George blocking you. Don’t worry, you’re in good company. He blocks many people who disagree with him or simply refute his lies with facts. Free speech is something he’s only in favour of if you agree with him. It’s sad that he’s so insecure that he needs the constant adoration of his supporters to feed his ego. He blocks rational discussion, but is happy to let his supporters spew vitriol over those whose opinions differ from his, no matter how rude & nasty they get. A childish, narcissistic, egomaniac who sincerely believes that only he holds all the answers. You would never have been allowed to finish your discussion with him, you had too much truth & too many facts behind you. Two things he & his supporters simply cannot handle. Take it as a compliment that you so easily caused him to have a temper tantrum.
Oops, sorry about calling you Katy. Typo from being up too early.
Jeffrey,
What I said about Icke was I had no problem with him coming here as a tourist but I saw no reason to give him a working visa. I really do not see why we should give a platform to an anti-Semite who thinks we are being ruled by lizard people. That does not constitute an alternate point of view so much as an alternate universe.
TS,
Arrogance combined with stupidity put in a position of power. An ugly combination. I also sense a great deal of insecurity behind the bravado.
Have you confirmed him as anti semite? From what I saw he was anti zionist.
Jeffrey,
For your sake I did some reading (and let me tell you, it wasn’t easy to read his rubbish) and I will concede that anti-Semite is not a correct description.
This is probably the best article I found on the matter.
“However to summarise this issue: we can point out that Icke believes that the jews are not actually a problem as they are a people who have been mislead by the jewish-reptile cross-breeds among their elite who have then directed them to follow ludicrous laws and believe in their own inherent superiority over gentiles so that they can be persecuted in order to create a fascist jewish state and further that the jews aren’t really a people anyway, but rather have been made to believe they are by the evil reptilians.
I am afraid such ideas aren’t anti-Semitic, but they are lunatic!”
http://semiticcontroversies.blogspot.com.au/2012/12/is-david-icke-anti-semitic.html
Right.
So the zionist are very much like the LNP. Hiding behind the smokescreen of religion whilst vying for financial power to control.
As I said ‘I dont believe him to be dangerous’, whilst I also dont agree with all of his ideas, the original poster asked that themselves and others be allowed to hear him speak.
They can hear him speak on his many weird and wonderful videos or his interviews where he claimed to be the Son of God (later revised to son of the godhead) or in his many books. This is a guy who has rolled every conspiracy theory into one and topped it off by blaming the lizard people and then turned it into a business for exploiting the gullible.
And as for the Zionist bankers world domination theory, if you replaced that by uber-capitalists I would agree. Religion does not enter into their greed.
I see.
So we remove control of censorship from dutton and the lnp and hand it to you?
Keep reading!
Icke has not been censored in any way. He has just been denied a working visa. And am I to be included now in your world domination theories?
Think of it like this.
If an idea is so outrageous that majority refuse to entertain it.
Then that is far less dangerous than the subtle manipulation of information for eg the climate change debate enacted by the lnp.
I am sure if Icke wanted to come here and have a chat with people he would be allowed. He has been here before. But you see he won’t come unless he can make a buck out of it.
Ok kay.
Obviously you dont see the tactic of delay and chaotic paperwork as a subversive means to deny entry and employ censorship.
Several entertaining hypnotist have come to mess with minds and make a buck, fleece the nation as it were, but I didnt hear your protests then.
Don’t ascribe beliefs to my person. If you have questions to ask. Then ask.
“Don’t ascribe beliefs to my person.”
What’s that mean?
As for calling out other charlatans, I have written at length about Monckton and others.
Name calling when they don’t get their own way is the MO for the Right Wingers. A sad shame then, when, that is the posture of those in the highest positions in the land. Wonderful role models such as this Neolithic throw back . Not.
It is in reference to your comment claiming I have a ‘world domination theory’.
Fair point re Monckton.
Ps
Most of what you have written that I have read over the past 18 months I am in agreement with. I dont want you to think I have any personal animosity towards you.
I recognise the value of thoughtful debate.
Jeffrey,
I am always happy to discuss things when people are civil as you have been 🙂 and there is validity in what you say about let him come and allow people to make up their own minds. I just get so angry about how these people have made a living out of talking crap. Icke is too weird to be any sort of threat but people like Jo Nova and her husband David Evans really make my blood boil with their ‘paid for’ misinformation campaign about climate change hidden behind a veneer of pseudo-science.
I hope I haven’t offended you as it was not my intention.
Nah not really offended.
As I say, I enjoy debate as it is the best way to enlighten others (and myself).
I have a few anger issues that can be amplified by the insanity of recent Australian politics.
But I try to stay calm.
@Jeffrey
You are not alone in having your anger quotient amplified by recent Australian politics… nor is this insanity exclusive to Australia…neo-cons worldwide fear change and, globally, we have unprecedented change arriving environmentally, technically, culturally etc, whether we are ready or not.
@Kaye Lee
You are among a rare breed – always consistent, lately your writing has gone from good to terrific – your learning curve is ours, we are so much richer.
Yeah, I consider the policiticians of western democracies fear a loss of control – in regard to the internet.
They have recently recognised the power of the electronic global village and of course, they want to control it.
Massive change from the traditional controls they’ve had over energy and communications (to name two) are waning.
Would love to see brandis’ email on the prism hardrive. They prob still dont have a clue.
diannaart:
Unless they are driving it!
Indeed, but only in circles they get confused by gears for progression and sustainable…
Georgy boy is a fat turd, so conservative, a crawler to big business, and a hatred for working people and their representatives.
That defender of free speech, George Christensen, has blocked me from any further comment on his page
Tell me about it. i am not allowed to comment on this blog. Apparently i am too repetitive.
Ewan Jones seems to be making a habit of defending the indefensible.
Liberal National Party MP Ewan Jones appeared confident that Briggs would make a return to politics.
‘@BriggsJamie will be back. Cream always rises. A good man and a better bloke. Tough day for a man doing a good job.’
So Mr Jones, you consider sexual harassment ok?
Cream may always rise, but not all turds float.
Neil of Sydney
“Apparently i am too repetitive”
Why do I have trouble finding that hard to believe?
George; you are a science denier and a totally useless Australian. You’re not even a good bogan, just a windbag. What are you intending to do about this?
http://wxshift.com/news/record-heat-climate-chart-of-the-year?utm_content=buffera6c42&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Kaye, I don’t agree with George deleting your contribution to his FB page. I don’t agree with your whole approach to regional employment (we’ve canvassed that ground already and I did promise I would not revisit it) and I am critical of your view (as you are of mine). I took the chance to criticise the AIMN commentary because it was just so very nasty. Yes, I did take long slim kid to task for the brutality of his commentary (and, Sam, I concede that his violent fantasies towards George concerned smashing the image of George’s face rather George’s face itself). I can’t apologize, as Sam requests, to lsg because I’m still offended by his trashy comments directed to me. Maybe it’s just my ego.
Anyway, the vitriol directed to George here, in this discussion, is what most upset me and formed a significant part of my criticism. The inaccurate characterizations are one thing (bigoted, odious, ignorant, etc), but much worse are the pretty unbecoming attacks on George’s physical appearance – by people who hide their own human frailties behind avatars: fat turd, Georgie Porgie, etc. I’m sure this is enough for the delightful lsk to again characterize me as licking George’s boots ‘for meat pies’ (!?).
While it’s certainly unfair for George to delete anyone’s contribution to his FB page (and I wouldn’t like it, either), I don’t agree with your characterisation of this as an attack on free speech. The left has a particular definition of free speech that is passing odd for libertarians like me (who, more than anyone, arguably, value a society’s right to freedom of speech). There’s plenty of sources for definitions, but I’ll just provide that of dictionary.com: the right of people to express their opinions publicly without governmental interference, subject to the laws against libel, incitement to violence or rebellion, etc. It doesn’t follow that a politician has to retain your contribution on his personal FB page (again, I don’t agree with his action here).
It is of no consequence to me. I prefer to spend my time learning facts – something that won’t happen on George’s page. And you can’t seriously compare the commentary here to the hate spewed on George’s page? I admit to calling George bigoted, odious and ignorant which I still feel to be true. I agree with you about references to physical appearance – they add nothing to sensible discussion.
My main beef with what you wrote on George’s page was something about me refusing to address anything you brought up or to answer your questions or something like that. That wasn’t true. I don’t expect you to laud my journalistic expertise or to agree with what I say but civil debate or actual discussing facts becomes impossible on conservative pages. All I was trying to tell them was the real figures about employment generated by the expansion of Abbott Point. George called me a liar. He was wrong.
He isn’t important enough to concern me and quite frankly, he is a liability to the government in my opinion – others no doubt would disagree but I fail to see any positive contribution from him at all.
I think George is like a test case for how much will the public take. He is by no means a thoughtful articulate well informed person concerned with actual real world issues and based on facts.
Freedom of speech does not extend to hate speech one thing the right seem to be not well understanding.
Kaye: well, you didn’t concede my point that employment at the loader is pretty well irrelevant when you’re looking at opening up a whole coal basin. You didn’t even discuss that point – and I repeated it several times in different ways. That’s OK, you can reject my point and there’s no reason why you need to even acknowledge it. I do the same all the time. It was frustrating for me, though, and I thought it undermined your insistence that your motivation in contacting George was to openly discuss the issue, so I mentioned it in my FB comment.
But perhaps you do think employment at the loader is the sole issue and it is really only me that disagrees. Well, I did mention the echo chamber thing … and it’s something I’ve noticed on a second issue.
I concede that George might also be converting his FB page into an echo chamber by deleting your contributions. Can’t agree with him there.
OK, on that encouraging note, I’ve got a sea that I need to slip into.
Brett
After your dip, while towelling off, could you please consider what evidence you have that George Christensen is NOT a bigoted or a hypocritical man of massive proportions.
Thank you.
PS
I already posses plenty of evidence to support the contrary position.
There you go fibbing again. I went through the employment projections for the port expansion, the railway and the mine in both direct and indirect jobs, during construction and ongoing. I also mentioned the employment created in the area by tourism due to the reef.
Stop saying I just talked about the header because it just isn’t true. And if we are talking about the rail and the mine then they aren’t jobs in George’s electorate are they. 50% of those jobs are projected to be FIFO workers who I suppose could come from his electorate but he certainly isn’t mentioning that, he is saying how many jobs the expansion of the point will create in his electorate which is not many.
Diannaart, ah, that request for proof that George isn’t a bigot or hypocrite is sounding a bit like that familiar old conundrum about whether a negative can be proved. The consensus of most philosophers is that it can’t be. Still, I’ll respond sincerely – not least because you were very clearly expressing a view on the Briggs issue that I believe was the 2nd least tainted by bigotry and hypocrisy (yes, i judge my dead cat contribution – relating to alleged rapist, W. Shorten – to have been least tainted).
I’ve seen George accused of bigotry on this page because he (reported here) says his electorate is opposed to Syrian immigration. Is that consistent with your position? I responded earlier here by suggesting that he might actually be accurately putting forward the electorate view. Interestingly for me, that might also constitute evidence of non-hypocrisy (?) too if he’s one of those politicians who says he represents his electorate’s views (inasmuch that if he then ignores them, he’s a hypocrite, God forgive ‘im!). But we’d have to have information on his electorate’s views and I was just making the valid point that in the absence on that information we should be careful in judging George to be a bigot – that is, someone intolerant of those with different opinions to him. It gets especially untenable to cast such a slur if the caster is themselves ignoring the views of George’s electorate in doing so. Or if the caster (I don’t mean you or Kaye) demonstrates intolerance of alternative views quite openly in this discussion.
OK, getting back to hypocrisy. As I say, I need the issue identified if I am to address the claim. Is it protection of the sugar industry? Or protection of locals in regional employment? If it is either, you may well find me criticizing George. In fact, I took a very strong position against George on that latter issue in his FB page when he was leading a push against FIFO employment in the local mining industry. My consistent view is that where you have cosy deals that protect local industries, whether employers or employees or both, you don’t have to dig too far to find hypocrisy – variations on the theme of “we’re looking after people, but only if they’re our mates!”).
Anyway, DA, you have the dirt files on this chap. Share them with the rest of us and we might avoid going down the wrong rabbit holes.
Yes, Kaye, you did cover more than employment at the loader in the links you provided in your comment. My apologies. But you’ll recall that I responded to that comment noting that the effect on employment at more than one mine (not ‘the mine’) was the critical outcome of building capacity at the loader. I did request that you examine the effect on employment across the coal basin. I was frustrated when you didn’t respond.
There were a lot of people to respond to Brett. I was doing my best and then I got blocked.
There are wildly varying figures for that.
“•The proposed mining projects within the basin have the potential to attract investment of between $3.8 and $4.8 billion and could provide about 1,200 jobs per year”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-15/mining-companies-still-upbeat-about-the-future-of-galilee-coal/6316880
I presume they mean ongoing rather than during construction but even so, it is questionable as mines don’t employ many people during production phase.
Whatever the number, it doesn’t come anywhere near the jobs provided by the reef so to risk it due to global warming caused by fossil fuel burning or a shipping accident is madness.
I would also point out that it is the legal system’s job, and therefore a politician’s job, to protect minorities’ rights. Not everything is majority rule here. Discrimination is illegal even if George thinks most of us would agree with him.
Thank you, Kaye. That’s good – appreciated.
I think you need to exercise some caution about employment across the two phases. I would say employment would be greater during production than construction. That’s just an opinion. I worked at a coal mine in the Bowen Basin, west of Mackay, for 5 years in the 80s. OK, that was entirely during its production phase, so I can’t really claim to have an informed view. During production only a small minority of jobs relate to digging and hauling coal. Far greater numbers are involved in technical and office support, coal processing plant operation, overburden preparation and digging. My recollection was that about 10 times as much overburden (rock above the coal seam) was removed as coal, and that ratio increased every year as the seam deepened. And the mine ran 24/7, whereas construction would have been more like 8/6. I just relate that to indicate the complexity and scale of production employment; I probably don’t know any more about relative employment than you do.
Oh one useful indicator: during the construction phase at my mine, less than 100 or so contractors lived in barracks near the mine BUT while I was there (production) we would have had more than that at the Singles Quarters and many more than THAT living in town accommodation (thousand plus?). I’d more readily support a ratio of more than 10 rather than the less than 1 that you might be estimating. But this is old, vague data for one mine and I could be wrong …
I know nothing about mining beyond what I read which, as I said, varies wildly.
It says for the Adani mine : •Up to 1075 (construction) •Up to 3800 (operational) so looks like you may be right about the employment but I will believe it when I see it. I really don’t think they’ll get the finance.
http://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/assessments-and-approvals/carmichael-coal-mine-and-rail-project.html
Judging by the rate of coal company bankruptcies in USA lately I doubt that even if they get finance they’ll stay afloat for long anyway. India has said they’ll be closing the borders to coal imports in 2 or 3 years. China (the other big coal market) is backing away from coal as fast as they can and is pushing on with more appropriate energy technology (solar and wind). Just where does Adani think they’ll sell the damn stuff? The price is already so low it would be difficult if not impossible to turn a profit.
My bet is that after our idiots in government pay piles of money to them, Adani will decide it’s not profitable after all and will walk away, pocketing billions in Australian taxpayer funds.
And those poor Indians that we were saving by bringing them power, it appears they don’t want it.
“A Power Plant Would Just Destroy Our Life”, Chhattisgarh Villagers Protest Adani’s Move
The Adani Group’s 600-MW power plant in Surguja district of Chhattisgarh has hit a roadblock after residents of nearly ten villages, whose land will have to be surrendered for the thermal plant, decided to oppose the project and brought about a deferment of the public hearing on the same.
http://www.youthkiawaaz.com/2015/12/chhattisgarh-protest-adani-power-plan/
Brett Pattinson
I have worked in most industries including mining and there are very few that employ the numbers they did back in the 1960’s. We live in a throw away world, often it is cheaper to replace than repair. Also tax laws allow much quicker depreciation than the old days. Once it was better for miners to repair and claim the costs in that financial year than claim depreciation on a new item over 4-6 years. In 6 years time the mine could be closed but at the moment purchases up to $20k can be written off immediately.
What was, what is and what will be a 4 totally different things.
I have been blocked from commenting on Christensen’s wall on a couple of occasions to say the least. Each time I was blocked I was presenting facts backed by links to credible sources, unlike his abusive followers. Ironically it’s those abusive followers who are allowed to continue posting and vilifying others.
Seems facts are considered ‘terms of abuse’ by right-wingnuts.
That they then complain when they are banned from sites such as AIM for being abusive or deliberately trying to derailing discussion – oh the outrage, the snivelling, the whining – ‘why was I treated soooooo badly by the lefties?’
That Kaye Lee was not abusive and merely expressing her opinion to these tossers – well, they have the right to be bigots…. according to George, that’s the exclusive right of the terminally tyrannical.
Brett P,
I would give more credence to your confected outrage at the use (by me) of terms like ‘bigoted’ (for making sexist statements), ‘ignorant’ (for making and repeating provably false claims), and ‘odious’ (for the previously cited behaviours, and other unsavoury displays) to describe Mr Christensen, if you were to also acknowledge that an MP calling fellow Australians ‘green grubs’ and falsely accusing them of ‘terrorism’, ‘racism’ and ‘lying’ constitutes below-par/unacceptable behavior for a parliamentarian.
Or do your standards of decency in discourse not apply to politicians?
Thanks Wally. It was the 80s (not 60s), but I agree that it is (as I wrote) old data.
Corvus Boreus: “confected outrage”? I simply described your claims as inaccurate characterizations. How is my description confected? Or outrage? I’m amused by the irony here … but not outraged.
And by describing your claims as inaccurate characterizations (and I went no further), I made no reference to standards of decency. What I consider indecent, and I covered this in the same comment as much worse, “are the pretty unbecoming attacks on George’s physical appearance – by people who hide their own human frailties behind avatars: fat turd, Georgie Porgie, etc”. Perhaps you might join me in describing such behavior as odious …
@Brett P
Apologies for replying not sooner – CB reminded you asked for proof of GC’s bigotry…. gawd, where to begin, George offers such a plethora of hypocritical behaviour – not the least his action towards Kaye Lee….
Because life is short, I have given you a place to start. If you are sincere in your quest to delve into the behaviour of George Christensen, you may wish start here:
The above includes links to George’s campaign against Halal and, frankly, I do believe you have sufficient intelligence to work it out for yourself.
Regards
Dianna
Brett P,
I have no hesitation in honestly saying that I disown, and disapprove of, some of the more derogatory remarks made about Mr Christensens appearance, and the making of allegations beyond evidential justification.
Now, would you care to comment on (and preferably condemn) some of the completely false and deeply offensive remarks made by Mr Christensen(eg; grubs, terrorists, racists, liars)?
Could I add “dangerous” to the adjectives used to describe George.
This is the latest thread on his facebook page:
“We are told we must forsake industrial and mining jobs to appease the green gods lest we make the planet’s temperature rise. The story has been that so-called climate scientists, akin to the high priests of this religion, have declared via consensus that global warming is real and it’s man made and its destroying the planet.
However, a new survey has found that only 36 percent of geoscientists and engineers believe that humans are creating a global warming crisis, and that the vast majority believe that “nature is the primary cause of recent global warming and/or that future global warming will not be a very serious problem.”
He then links to an article in Forbes that you have to turn off your ad blocker to access. I chose not to.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/George-Christensen/738620372859560
Someone who is not banned from George’s page may like to ask him if he would consult a mechanic if he had a blocked heart valve.
Seems George is doing nothing more than recycling the deniers constantly regurgitated and recycled false memes attacking AGW. In that lot Kaye Lee quotes he manages three:
1. It’s a religion. (On any cursory inspection of the arguments it’s easy to see the denier attacks and falsities are more akin to faith).
2. It’s natural. Climate has always changed and this is nothing new. (What has occurred since the industrial revolution in relation to the rate of a warming trend has no global historic precedent outside some massive catastrophic event).
3. There is no consensus, bringing out the discredited list of supposed scientists who deny AGW. There may not be a 100% consensus of specialists in field but there is such a significant number of proponents it’s close enough to be one.
Number 3 leads into their other favourite recycled meme, it’s a massive global conspiracy by the left (and/or UN) to take over the world. The sheer ludicrousness of this lame proposition goes beyond any defence they attempt to make for it.
George must have been reading that other highly renowned climate expert George Pell:
“Some of the hysteric and extreme claims about global warming are also a symptom of pagan emptiness, of Western fear when confronted by the immense and basically uncontrollable forces of nature. Belief in a benign God who is master of the universe has a steadying psychological effect, although it is no guarantee of Utopia, no guarantee that the continuing climate and geographic changes will be benign. In the past pagans sacrificed animals and even humans in vain attempts to placate capricious and cruel gods. Today they demand a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.”
Or one of my favourites from Pell….
“Radical environmentalists are more than up to the task of moralising their own agenda and imposing it on people through fear. They don’t need church leaders to help them with this, although it is a very effective way of further muting Christian witness. Church leaders in particular should be allergic to nonsense….. I am certainly sceptical about extravagant claims of impending man-made climatic catastrophes. Uncertainties on climate change abound … my task as a Christian leader is to engage with reality, to contribute to debate on important issues, to open people’s minds, and to point out when the emperor is wearing few or no clothes.”
Engage with reality? SRSLY?
Talking of Pell Kaye Lee I note that there’s chatter around the interwebs that Pell very soon after claiming to be too ill to come to Australia to face the Royal Commission into Institutionalised Child Abuse was seen giving personal tours around the Vatican.
Brett Pattinson
Sorry 1960 was a typo (was typing in the dark) I was referring to 1980.
I worked at Nobles Nob mine in Tennant Creek at the end of 1980 and early 1981.
Good to hear from you again, Wally. Well, it looks like you were at Nobles Nob (!) at the same time as I was drilling and blasting at Tom Price in WA, which might place us in the same vintage. I hope that after a lifetime of working in a variety of jobs, including as a NT miner in the 80s, you’re enjoying life in a cooler, gentler environment these days.
My time in mining was quite brief (I’d had enough of it by the time I was 30) and I didn’t have an especially easy time of it, but it was an experience that I’m fortunate to have had. Maybe it was, as you noted earlier, a time that has passed. I visited a coal operation in NSW in 2009 (well, salaries were extraordinary then) and was surprised to find how much the culture had changed overy 30 years. Seemed like the fun had somehow been sucked out of it – to the point where I couldn’t see any difference from my public service admin job …
But I digress. This is a political forum and the people following the Christensen affair don’t want to derailed by a couple of old miners comparing notes …
Brett Pattinson
Back in the day being an electrician I found the work easy but play time took a lot of keeping up with.
Back on topic you stated – “I visited a coal operation in NSW in 2009 (well, salaries were extraordinary then) and was surprised to find how much the culture had changed over 30 years”
They would not let me start work the condition I was in many mornings and comparing the cost of housing, living and travel wages compare to what we were earning in the day. What doesn’t compare is the minimum wage, it has fallen so far behind what can be considered a reasonable income. The politicians cite the incomes of CEO’s and miners as a reason to continually increase their salary but they want to remove penalty rates and whenever pensioners income or the minimum wage is suggested to be increased the LNP say we can’t afford it.
The only reason they want more coal mines is so they can import cheap Labor to drop the cost of coal exported overseas. The grand plan along with Gina’s endeavour is to undermine Australian workers so they can export more minerals. They don’t want to put money back into Australia or pay any tax they just want to rip what we sit on out from under us and pay bigger all for it.
If it is good enough for miners to be drug tested every day surely our MP’s should be tested before they sit in parliament.
If it is OK for a CEO to earn $10 mil PA ($200k a week) surely the pension should be $500 a week, $400 for the dole and $900 minimum wage. At these rates the pension is only 0.25% of the CEO’s salary, miniscule by comparison.
Why should the average person care about the state of the country when the fat cats who tell us to tighten the belt continue to avoid paying tax, earn more in a year than 10 – 20 people can earn in a life time and have utter disregard for anyone but themselves,
Surprise, surprise – the “peer reviewed survey” doesn’t say what Mr Christensen claims it does. It was a survey taken by the Association of Professional Engineers, Geologists, and Geophysicists of Alberta (Alberta is the centre of the oil, tar sands and coal shale industries in Canada).
So this “survey” is mainly of professionals working in the petroleum industry – the report is about how they go about “framing” their attitudes to AGW.
http://oss.sagepub.com/content/33/11/1477.full
The author of the Forbes article (James Taylor from the Heartland Institute) is pretty soundly lambasted in the comments for totally misrepresenting what the report actually said. Many on Mr Christensen’s page have also pointed this out…
One of the shorter ones: Alex Knapp , Forbes Staff 3 years ago
@Bacchus
Are you suggesting George is making claims based on false data?
People who behave this way are frequently referred to as hypocrites.
diannaart
I think the claims are being made by James Taylor – George is just blindly accepting an article that agrees with his warped POV 😉
The difference between wilful ignorance and straight out hypocrisy is a tricky one.
I think I’ll pen a letter to send to Malcolm and Warren to ask them if Mr Christensen is accurately representing the Coalition view before we have to decide who to vote for.
If George truly believes the guff he writes then he obviously does not have the intelligence to be making such important decisions. And his responses to people who question his narrative (polite word for rot) would indicate he does not have the emotional intelligence to be a representative of anyone. He’ll just start calling you a fool or a liar if you don’t accept as gospel his words of….errrr….wisdom? This man is wide open for manipulation without the ability to discern truth from bs. That makes him dangerous.
“I think I’ll pen a letter to send to Malcolm and Warren to ask them if Mr Christensen is accurately representing the Coalition view before we have to decide who to vote for.”
Excellent idea, Kaye. I hope I find Pyne campaigning somewhere. I’d love to ask him that question in front of an audience.