In government, nothing is an accident

June 19, 2015
Written by: Michael Taylor
62 Replies

Listen carefully and you might hear a wind farm (image from gleninnesexaminer.com.au)

I worked in government long enough to know how they operate.

Nothing is an accident.

Everything is planned or stage-managed.

It is especially so before a new, and particularly controversial initiative is to be announced. It’s always good for the government to get a ‘feel’ of how the announcement will be received. Conversely, if there are indications that the announcement would be in the face of public disapproval then it’s just as good for the government to say and do nothing. “It was just all speculation”. “It will blow over and soon be forgotten”.

And so it was when yesterday we learned that:

A national wind farm commissioner to investigate complaints about wind turbines will be appointed by the Abbott government as anti-wind energy senators move to curb the industry’s growth.

This government knows just who to turn to.

Talk around the water cooler suggests that most people see this as a swift response inspired by Tony Abbott’s much public complaint to Alan Jones that wind farms could represent health risks, and of course, his much-lampooned comment about them being noisy:

“Well Alan look, I do take your point about the potential health impact of these things,” Mr Abbott said.

“When I’ve been up close to these wind farms, there’s no doubt, not only are they visually awful, they make a lot of noise.

I beg to differ to the water cooler consensus. Experience in government tells me it was the other way around.

The government wants to appoint a national wind farm commissioner and was dangling its toe in the pool of public opinion first.

That’s where Alan Jones steps in – who else?

It was all stage-managed.

Conveniently Jones wanted to talk about wind farms and instead of being met with Tony Abbott’s customary responses that are littered with hesitant words the Prime Minister spoke quite fluently. It was not the Tony Abbott who is always lost for words when confronted with an off-the-cuff question.

Everything fell into place. Let’s run through them:

The government wants to appoint a national wind farm commissioner. It is a controversial decision given the world’s move towards cleaner energy.
The government ’employs’ Alan Jones to interview the Prime Minister about – among other things – wind farms.
The Prime Minister puts it out there that there are potential health concerns with wind farms, and of course they look ugly and are noisy.
The Murdoch media publish stories that support the Prime Minister. Public support has been mustered.
Bingo, government announces (conveniently through a leaked letter) that it wants to appoint a national wind farm commissioner.

The wind farm debate was no accident.

There are times when Tony Abbott knows exactly what he is doing.

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juliefarthingJune 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm

Who would believe anything that comes out of Abbott’s mouth. Just more lies to add to the weight of his hypocrisy

paul walterJune 19, 2015 at 8:25 pm

Yes, all planned. That was why Credlin was so incensed at the pics taken of her- removed attention away from where Credlin want it focussed which is to say the ambush of the Opposition Leader, something of a non issue unless Bill was actually pocketing money intended as donations, for himself.

Andreas BimbaJune 19, 2015 at 8:29 pm

Such a farce. I blame the complicit mass media more than I blame the Minerals Council’s puppet Tony Abbott.

4 legs good, 2 legs bad! Baahahahaaah!

silkwormJune 19, 2015 at 8:37 pm

Yes, an orchestrated brain fart, designed to draw attention away from the cabinet revolt over giving Dutton power over citizenship, and from the scandal of paying US$ to people smugglers.

darrel nayJune 19, 2015 at 8:48 pm

Thanks Michael Taylor,

A wind farm nazi – yeah that’s just what we need. We had the septic nazi levying our community last week -what’s next? These endless unproductive beurocrats seem to fit the definition of a racket:

A fraudulent or otherwise illegal business practice. For example, a Ponzi scheme is a racket because no service is offered: new investors simply pay old investors.

Cheers

HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 8:49 pm

Considering that constructing wind farms is a waste of precious fossil fuel energy, I’m with Tony Abbott on this one.
And before you all go off half cocked, prove to me otherwise. I’ll bet my goolies, since I don’t use them much anymore, that you can’t. EROEI mates, EROEI. The laws of physics is on my side.

Harquebus?

darrel nayJune 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm

distraction from the illegal TPP maybe

paul walterJune 19, 2015 at 9:08 pm

Painful if you use them for door-stops, Harkobus.

John LordJune 19, 2015 at 9:08 pm

I live near Hazelwood. Can we please have a Coal Commisioner.

HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 9:10 pm

@paul walter
Really? Thanks for the tip. I’ll be sure not to try.

@John Lord.
I believe I owe you an apology. I sincerely do apologize.

Michael TaylorJune 19, 2015 at 9:35 pm

Following what was happening in Britain, the Gillard Government introduced something similar. She had her departments set up blog sites where ‘ideas’ were put out there to see what the public reaction was like. Epic fails, as no one read government department’s blogs.

People were then employed to go onto more popular sites to put ideas into the public domain.

No, I wasn’t one of those people, but I was aware of the ‘policy’.

bobraftoJune 19, 2015 at 9:52 pm

I think I read somewhere some time ago that Abbott claimed he could beat Shorten and he wasn’t hedging his bets when he called a RC into the unions.

Now Abbott is beating the ISIS crap over Shorten’s head.

One SMH story headline was: Will Shorten lead the coalition to victory?

If there is adverse findings against Shorten and he is already on the back foot, a snap double dissolution is coming, my opinion.

Should Bill step down and be replaced by Tanya? That would be my choice, how many leaders have voluntarily given up their power? I don’t think there are many, most will cling on till they are stabbed in the back.

mark delmegeJune 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm

Its amazing really … the coal industry is on its last legs and even the oil industry is having trouble – and its not irrelevant to the argument that the Saudi’s crashed the oil price – hoping to put off the burgeoning clean and competing energy sources for as long as possible.

Florence nee FedupJune 19, 2015 at 10:07 pm

I suspect Abbott knows what he is doing, with every word he utters. Well Turnbull instead turn back might not have been planned.

He has two phrases he uses over and over. Ones he intends to take into the next campaign, well maybe the one he is on now.

I stopped the boats and cut the carbon tax. Both are in danger blowing up in his face.

It is becoming clear, as any thinking person would have expected, the boats have not stopped. What’s more, our relations with Indonesia and rest of the globe is deteriorating because of thus policy.

The second, Cutting that tax doesn’t look so clever now. People are turning back to taking on board, that carbon emissions have to be cut. Many see that CST suite of bills was working, that was contributing more to the economy than taking from it.

There are a couple of other sleepers, that could raise their ugly heads for Abbott. NBNCo is not delivering. The cuts they made since coming to power, are now being noticed on every front. NGO and community based services are now closing down.

Paris, now especially since the Pope is falling into behind a clean renewal energy future, is minefield for Abbott, whether he has the guts to attend or not.
Time is not on Abbott’s side. Is on Labor’s.

The dominoes are not falling into place, as Abbott planned., Especially if Shortens relaxed attitude to TURC is as it appears. I have watch these proceedings.. They are stacked against the unions. Cross examination is hindered.

Behaviour of employers not allow to be bought into proceedings.

From what I have seen, they will allow Shorten to give his view in July, Some cross examination will take place. It will then be adjourned to later in the year, maybe closer to a election called by Abbott. They will then spend time, bringing in witnesses that have it in for Shorten. Doesn’t matter if they are proven liars or not, they will used that testimony to cross examine Shorten later in the year.

That is what is happening now with AWU, TWU and CFMEU. Playing one off against the other.

I bet Shepherd will not be called. Suspect Shorten would have trouble using him as a witness. That is not the way this RC works.

Stolger has hand over questioning to a woman. Not sure of her name. Other solicitors seem to have given up, trying to intervene in proceedings, Like the Opposition in QT with Bishop, doesn’t no good.

Shorten is going have to be good to pull it off. He doesn’t have the public standing that Gillard had.
Rocky times ahead.

Shorten has known this was coming from day one.

Shorten did survive the rape allegations, but even there, there a barristers waiting to begin private proceedings on behalf of the victim. Not sure why. after saying they would, they have not done anything yet.

JexpatJune 19, 2015 at 10:09 pm

They’re also quite adept at getting the rest of the media outlets to jump to the tune- topped off with the publication of astroturf “letters to the editor.”

The Murdoch media is not the only problem here- just as it’s not in the US (though at least the most backward of right wing extremist US states isn’t stupid enough to jump off- much less derail this gravy train.

Nope. Australia thanks in large part to its feckless media (from top down and bottom up) has become exceptional (and exceptionally stupid) in this regard.

JexpatJune 19, 2015 at 10:15 pm

bobrafto:

Not to worry about ISIS.

I had the recent misfortune to see Jurrasic (product placement) World in the theatre. Several scenes clearly telegraphed the sequel (complete with the evil genius making off with the embyos on a military black ops helicopter).

ISIS and their supporters (and maybe the Abbott & Bush sorts and supporters, too) will be taken out by heaps of genetically modified “smart dinosaurs.” I’m guessing the script has already been written.

HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 11:03 pm

This article contains a flaw. Wind and solar energy generators can not be made without fossil fuels.

“It has become impossible to ignore the systemic financial risks inherent in the production of coal, oil and other fossil fuels.”
“Companies like Exxon and Chevron are betting that the next 100 years will look a lot like the last 100 years, even though the facts suggest otherwise. Investors, analysts, and even the Pope can see the writing on the wall”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mindylubber/2015/06/18/day-of-reckoning-for-fossil-fuel-industry/

stephentardrewJune 19, 2015 at 11:15 pm

Agreed Michael they stage plan and run everything past focus groups even if they are covered in prejudice. The interesting thing is that this is all deflection from the economy. Hockey and Coreman have escaped tight scrutiny as the budget has gradually been exposed as a non-stimulatory and includes further redistribution of wealth. The upcoming TPP vote will have enormous implications for our sovereignty and I fear Labor is too close to the L-NP on this issue. However if it gets public derision Labor may change tack.

The question always to ask is what the hell are they hiding. They know well the economy is is a mess while shorten is immersed in small item issues the are constrained by the constitution and High Court as he tries to step around refugees and invasion of privacy. Abbott is trying to cover his lying promises by directing attention to emotional fear based single item issues.

Labor is being sidelined as Shorten now pays for his low profile pseudo bipartisanship while he ignored the issues of pensions to try and hedge the Greens and now has egg on his face.

What a vacillating insecure lot they are.

HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 11:20 pm

There are many theories about the Saudi’s oil production. My favorite is that they are getting as much as they can as fast as they can before the global credit economy falls in a heap and their business model collapses.

mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 12:47 am

If we all rang TABbot on his mobile phone we might fry his brain before he can call a snap election.

mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 1:15 am

Harkobus you cant ignore price sensitivity when in comes to new technology

ItsazoosueJune 20, 2015 at 1:23 am

Harkobus, your comment contains a flaw. As much as you love to hark upon the fact that “wind and solar energy generators cannot be made without fossil fuel”, the above article did not negate that position. Nor did it even mention it. You brought it up. Again (Are Wind Farms Noisy?).

Anyone for the bleeding obvious? At present, of course, that is the case. Are you suggesting that a switch to renewable energy should or could occur in an instant? Horse-drawn carts probably pulled parts for the first automobiles too but it did nothing to stave off their obsolescence.

Yes, there are gaps in the new sector technology but why not start bridging them now, while non-renewable energy sources are still available? If not now, when?

Let us say that I have the option of installing solar power, a wind turbine or a petrol generator at my property. All are currently produced using fossil fuels yet only the latter continues to impact upon our carbon footprint and non-renewable fuel sources. Petrol costs money. Sunshine and wind do not. Why wouldn’t I choose renewable energy?

I believe in anthropogenic global warming and that we need to adopt clean, renewable energy sources as soon as possible. Why? Science aside, if it turns out that I am wrong, I will be able to live with myself.

Annie BJune 20, 2015 at 2:12 am

The current government in this country, turn their blind eyes to everything that can be good – and we are all meant to feel degraded, hopeless and in fear, because of their diversionary tactics, exaggerations, inflammatory remarks and secrecy. …

But, agree with Michael – there are times that T A knows exactly what he is doing. … Damn right he does – it’s called being cunning ( among other things ).

It is fear mongering, that is rotten. … Another fear put out for us to digest, dangerous audible noise to humans from wind turbines …. the current gov’mint is ( TA says ) setting up a ‘wind farm commissioner’ to investigate this noise impact. He’s saying this in a vain and desperate attempt to justify the ridiculous anti-RET statements he’s made, and the fact that he obviously wants to keep his precious coal ( and the crap it spews ). …

If it weren’t so potentially serious ( for our economy under this government ), it would be laughable that China is backing off the coal import thing, and looking seriously at all forms of renewable energy.

“There is much to praise about China’s enthusiasm for renewable energy.
To the extent that it substitutes for fossil fuels, renewable energy helps to slow
the growth of China’s greenhouse gas emissions while alleviating its notorious
air pollution more generally. Renewable energy also promises to improve
China’s energy security, both by diversifying its sources of supply and by
reducing its need to import supplies. ” … from :

https://crawford.anu.edu.au/files/uploads/crawford01_cap_anu_edu_au/2013-10/chinas_search_for_renewable_energy.pdf …. a 22 page read, if anyone wants
to wade through it. !

While the abbott is about it, perhaps he should line up many more ‘commissioners to look into’ – domestic violence, the use of insecticides and pesticides on our foods, the suffering ( at his hands ) of legitimate refugees, the impact of illegal drugs, [ especially ‘ice’ ], the road toll, paedophilia, street violence, the probability of hand guns being more and more available, public transport — you can all add a lot to this list.

A new ‘ commissioner ‘ eh ? … all another big con by the greatest con artists this country ( perhaps the world ?) has ever seen.

mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 2:45 am

next will be an attack on rooftop solar…oh wait

Terry2June 20, 2015 at 7:05 am

I heard Greg Hunt on ABC Drive talking about this Wind Farm commissioner. Hunt emphasised that this is a ‘non statutory’ position and won’t cost any money; he failed to mention that this appointment will have no powers or authority over the states who actually have the jurisdiction over wind farms.

He also failed to mention that this was a sop to the Independents so that they will agree to include the burning of forest/sawmill waste (i.e. wood) in the Renewable Energy Target.

When will this nightmare go away?

As you say , Michael, nothing in government happens by accident but this government is itself a massive train smash and a total embarrassment to this nation.

Yesterday, on the same program, I heard Greg Sheridan from The Australian saying that if the payments made to people smugglers by the Abbott government were made to ASIS then it was all OK as they have an overriding statutory obligation to maintain national security.

No, No, No, a thousand times No ! We cannot allow ourselves to be drawn into delusional Abbott-land to say that payments funnelled through the Dept of Immigration suddenly become legitimate when paid out by spooks : two wrongs will never make a right.

This is Abbott’s Watergate and we need our own Woodward and Bernstein to reveal that this emperor is naked and mus go.

Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 7:53 am

Refugees seeking asylum in wooden boats have nothing to do with security, Have nothing to do with Intelligence. They have legal tight, even under our law to come. Sheridan is wrong.

hughwebster2014June 20, 2015 at 7:57 am

Abbott should just listen to the Pope !

TurnLeft2016June 20, 2015 at 9:31 am

next well get the headlies that “Bill Shorten is weak on stopping the windmills”

AnomanderJune 20, 2015 at 10:29 am

Yes Michael – Abbott does know exactly what he is doing, and we are being forced to supply our own KY gel.

mars08June 20, 2015 at 11:51 am

Anomander:

…Abbott does know exactly what he is doing…

That’s sarcasm, right?

No doubt there are those lobbying the Coalition who know what’s going on… and there are those in the Abbott’s office who know what they’re doing…

But I seriously doubt that the fear-mongering, knuckle-dragging, bumbling “man” himself has any idea on how to SET an agenda…

brickbobJune 20, 2015 at 12:03 pm

Any one who voted for this Govt last time and intends to do the same next time should seriously consider the state of their mental health.

DanDarkJune 20, 2015 at 12:24 pm

Brickbob I live in a town full of Lib Nats voters, just yesterday in the hardware store, old Des was winging that this year has been bad, worse than last year, no one is spending money at his shop, and he is a discount tools joint, I said back “its this gov we have they have slammed the country into reverse” he said back ” the last Lab gov were worse,”
Well holy shit he shouldn’t of said that LOL because I saw red and gave him a mouthful back with ” don’t ever compare :Labor to these mongrels, its the only come back you lib voters have, and Labor were meek compared to this lot of idiots, they are divisive, you got your 20 grand tax break whilst others are losing money so don’t be winging, you voted for the idiots Des”
The kids were with me and I said as we were leaving ” This will be the last time we step into this shop and we wont be putting his advertising flyers out for him anymore” another Lib bites the dust.
I was a loyal customer up until yesterday, but idiots like Des will vote for LNP again because its a habit, and a bad habit at that…

Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:02 pm

No mars08, not sarcasm. He has a plan from many years ago, and he is sticking to his script.

Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:04 pm

Big rise in application fees for divorce. Are they milking divorce for money, or is it simply ideological, not believing in divorce.

Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:08 pm

They are now demanding Shorten’s first wife appears at TURC to discuss what shareholding he had, when they married. Why? The have the power to subpoena his financial records. Doesn’t wash.

Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:10 pm

I wonder if they have been recording Shorten’s phone as it appears they have done with recent witnesses?

banistersmindJune 20, 2015 at 1:46 pm

And here I was thinking that the LNP were the party of small government.

diannaartJune 20, 2015 at 3:16 pm

When asked in interview (ABC), why we didn’t also have Coal, Fracking, Barrier Reef Commissioners (fill in already known health hazard of your choice), Greg Hunt mumbled we already had good people doing just that.

I was so disappointed he was not asked to name names.

I did ponder whether these ‘commissioners’ were in fact combined into one entire Environmental Minister (there being no Minister FOR the Environment), and Greg was feeling more than a tad overwhelmed – I am sure he could use the advice of, say, the newly independent Climate Council or even the knowledge of a Minister For Science (if we had one).

Michael is most likely right – the entire wind-farm commissioner thingy was staged – however Greg might have been feeling he just had too much of a workload to deal with the issue of wind-farms and begged Tony to be let off from dealing with the unproven health effects of wind-farms – too busy with the known knowns.

lawrencewinderJune 20, 2015 at 3:17 pm

It’s terrifying to think that all this is planned…(well the detail at least in the last 5 minutes) from the “Coots-With-Queer-Ideas-From-a-parallel-Universe” (IPA) Handbook. I remember writing some 2 years ago that this rabble’s election and their following “The Coot’s” Policy thought-bubbles would result in the demise of “Civil-Society”.
Well the rabble got elected and, Voila!

darrel nayJune 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm

reply for diannaart,

That ‘known knowns’ Rumsfeld quote is classic – but it has given me a mild case of cerebral indigestion.

Peace

totaramJune 20, 2015 at 4:32 pm

They always know what they are doing, to the extent that they know what they have been told to do. Whether they actually understand what they are doing, is something they don’t really care about too much, as long as the money rolls in. That’s why we have all the gaffs when they are asked a slightly penetrating question whose answer depends on understanding what they are doing.

HarkobusJune 20, 2015 at 8:03 pm

@Itsazoosue
I don’t advocate renewable energy generators at all. They are a complete waste of fossil fuel energy.
My solution, as always, is population reduction and the end to consumerism and to contract the economy. We can not shop our way to sustainability.
Horse-drawn carts will replace the automobile and any forward thinking person would get themselves one.
Sunshine and wind are free but, the collectors of their energy are not. These sources need to be collected from large areas or over a long period of time. Think how long it took for nature to concentrate and store solar energy in the form of fossil fuels which, I also do not advocate.
Clean, renewable energy does not exit. Not in the form that most of us think of anyway.
If you are wrong about future scientific discoveries, you will not be living with yourself, you will be dead, along with the rest of us.

“There is no renewables revolution in China. So, as always, I recommend that people spend some time with data sources such as the BP Statistical Review of World Energy and less time reading pundits and the instant experts of Twitter.”

There is no renewables revolution in China. Here are the numbers that show this

Annie BJune 20, 2015 at 8:56 pm

Harky is back – harping on all kinds of nasty stuff that promotes the end of civilisation. …

Which frankly, from his comment ( June 20, 2015 at 8:03 pm ) is fatalistic and appears to come a lot from the ‘dark side’.

“My solution, as always, is population reduction and the end to consumerism and to contract the economy. We can not shop our way to sustainability.”

So – you want folks to stop having children all over the world, let the population die off ( which it will do as people age ) ? and for organisations to stop servicing and protecting customers ( that’s what consumerism is, and what you want to put a stop to !! ). … Maybe we cannot ‘shop our way’ to sustainability, but there are a myriad of other ways we can sustain ourselves – if we look and we try. …

and you WISH for a contraction of the economy …. ??? … That actually is a downward trend … and you want it ?

Our own survival and ways of retaining sustainability, is not a plan that would be too much in your corner – methinks ?

……..

mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 9:10 pm

I’ll grant you one thing Harkobus last we added 40 millions mouths at the table and clearly this is unsustainable. And we certainly buy too much shit. Growth rates take no account of the triple bottom line and we are on the road to armageddon but not as it is usually meant though that could happen too. Boiling frogs and all that. We can’t keep doing what we are doing and expect any other outcome – but you try telling that to people…

Annie BJune 20, 2015 at 9:22 pm

@ Harkobus again – – –

Sure there would be a lot of currently resourced energy initially used in the building of say, wind farms, and hopefully more hydro-electric ( the best performer for renewable energy, apparently with high yield ) … solar capture etc. …. yep – lotsa coal fueled energy needed to begin with. …. it’s called ‘transition’ from one thing to another – and it must be done. And it CAN be done.

The ‘ long range forecast ‘ however, is a) the use of natural resources GROWING, in order to exclude the very thing that helped them to happen in the first place ( fossil fuels ) – a win in my opinion … and b) the ever present and ongoing research into technology and mechanical devices, that do NOT need for instance, generators continually operated by fossil fuels. ….. There is much going on in the scientific, technical and mechanical world to have the wind turbines become self sufficient in supplying their own needs – in terms of say, generators. …. There is also much endeavour to find a way ( and they are so close to it being ) to have wind turbines react to the smallest of winds. ( when it all began, a high velocity wind was required to operate the jolly things ) ….

I cannot at present find the links to this information – but I will try if anyone is interested.

You Harky – would NOT be interested ….. you are way too set in your ways of thinking – which I frankly don’t think is healthy for you. So – I will not rummage in my computer history for you, specifically.

And yes, I know about the millions of years it took for the planet to use and ‘metabolise’ ancient microbes and animal matter to produce what we now see as a lump of coal. …. I got that. … I don’t think however, that had much to do with solar energy as we now know it. …. of course the sun played a part in the breaking down processes, but it was so many eons ago, we only see the results of that now – – – – – in fossil fuel which this government wants to dig up, exploit, export ( good luck with that guys ) … and continue to use. …. Solar energy today is a direct situation from the rays of the sun – used.

The chart shown on that link is like many ‘charts’ … shows a disparate relationship between what was, and what now is. …. Renewable energy is comparatively new – which is all the chart shows. ? Ye Gods !!

It is easy to copy and paste from a site, as you did in your last paragraph above ( before the link ) … from a single person expressing an opinion. It is altogether another situation to actually READ what they advise to link to. … the BP Statistical Report for 2014. … Yep – things may have changed in up to 12 months, but the consensus of that report – shows overall consumption of fossil fuels has fallen. …. And you – nobody – could tell me that China will not be trying their damndest to catch up and match up, the general trend into non-fossil fuel use. … It is totally in their interest, economically and environmentally, to do so.

( ah forget it – you are not listening anyway ).

,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Kindly stop kidding yourself. …..

paul walterJune 20, 2015 at 10:46 pm

Yes, the hard right has had “plans” for decades, slowly they are implemented. It is a curious juxtaposition that reactionaries can be both insane and capable of detailed planning and implementation of such plans. When one soldier falls (say, Howard in 2007, on miscalculations concerning industrial relations) another zealot, say like Abbott, will step forward to continue the class warfare…they are like Daleks.

HarkobusJune 20, 2015 at 10:46 pm

Annie B.

For a start, I do not promote the end of civilisation, I am trying to avoid it. Some here just will not comprehend our situation.

I do want people to stop having children all over the world and to let the population reduce through natural attrition. At least I did. It is too late for that now.

“there are a myriad of other ways we can sustain ourselves”. Care to name a few? The latest I have heard is harvesting insects.
“Right now cricket flour is still something of a novelty, but we’re about to move into the next stage when insects become readily available as a food ingredient and we’ll see far more diversity in terms of products.”
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/R-D/Tiny-Farms-Edible-insects-will-be-be-mainstream-in-future
Call this progress?

It is only corporate greed that requires economic growth. How much more of our world do you want to destroy in this mad pursuit. Money is made via fractional reserve banking. That is money is borrowed into existence. Growth is required to reduce the proportion of debt to GDP and is why governments and banks pursue it with zeal. They are attempting to grow their way out of debt.

If as you say, we use fossil fuels to build wind and solar, thereafter, the number of wind and solar energy collectors will begin to diminish as they are not able to replicate themselves due to the law of diminishing energy returns.

I am keenly interested in what you have got to say. I soon I can get you to understand fully the relationship between energy, productivity and the economy, you will be a great asset to me.

The link I posted because, I have recently come across it and someone here mentioned China’s renewables. I just put it up for for general interest and information and as a talking point.

I could say that you are kidding yourself but, I won’t.

Don’t stop. Bring it on please. I need people like you who fail in their logic to highlight the absurdities that you promote.

You might like this one. The author thinks that renewables can replicate but, fails to mention the law of diminishing energy returns.
“the all-renewable industrial economy of the future will be less mobile and will produce fewer and more expensive goods.”

Renewable Energy Will Not Support Economic Growth

Annie BJune 21, 2015 at 1:11 am

Harquebus –

” For a start, I do not promote the end of civilisation, I am trying to avoid it.”

You ( singularly ) are trying to avoid the end of civilisation ? … how ? .. And who do you really think you are to be able to do such a thing ? … if it ends, matey, it ends. …. and the way the powers in this world appear to think and blab at times, it could well have nothing whatsoever to do with renewable energies, growing vegies in the back garden, worrying about climate change, saving water, or any other darned thing. … It could end ( perhaps – nothing is written in stone yet ) … with a cataclysmic clash of nuclear powers.

http://www.landlearnnsw.org.au/sustainability/what-is-sustainability
http://www.sustainabilitydictionary.com/category/v/
and from : http://www.epa.gov/sustainability/basicinfo.htm

“Sustainability is based on a simple principle: Everything that we need for our survival and well-being depends, either directly or indirectly, on our natural environment.� Sustainability creates and maintains the conditions under which humans and nature can exist in productive harmony, that permit fulfilling the social, economic and other requirements of present and future generations.

Sustainability is important to making sure that we have and will continue to have, �the water, materials, and resources to protect human health and our environment.”

This is true – we have to strive to live in harmony with one another, and with the planet we live on. … there are many who are attempting that, including myself in a tiny way. … Tiny, in-so-far-as, I am one person who can only do what I do – I cannot sweep the world with my intentions.

People like the leader of our country do not want to entertain that idea. THAT is the problem we face here, and others face elsewhere in the world. … If all else fails, Mother Nature will move to teach us all a very very big lesson. …. She is beginning to do so now.

You bring in the subject ( by link ) about ‘cricket flour’ ??? …. You seem grossed out about that. … Wanting to maintain the status quo ? while saying it is all ‘too late’ ? … Yes – using crickets to make flour is a stretch – a big one, but why bother to use that example to further your argument ? …. Insect eating is already common in many countries. ….. I am not going to list the number of ways humans can sustain their lives and living – do your own homework – if you dare to.

Wind and solar cannot replicate themselves ? …. Right on Macduff. … However – fossil fuels ultimately are mined out – never to be touched again, cos ‘ there ain’t no more from whence it came ‘. … That too, ultimately cannot be replicated.

But what CAN replicate itself, is humanity. …. I believe in humanity, human-ness, human abilities, experience and knowledge, and the ability of humans to survive. … And at this time, global society is endeavouring to find ways to do just that ( with one exception – the LNP here ) …. Survival instinct is paramount, and will remain so – unless some idiot presses the red button that blows us all to eternity.

” you will be a great asset to me.” AND ” I need people like you who fail in their logic to highlight the absurdities that you promote. “ …. Pardon ?

Just who the heck do you really think you are ? …. I would not want to be any form of asset to you in any way whatsoever, therefore, will not ‘bring it on’ … just to have you try and slam me down for expressing an opinion. We have one already in this country who tries desperately to dumb down the populace, with inane and scare tactic mutterings. …. His ambitions are higher than yours on that score. !!

This then is an end to all of this conversation – by my choice. … But I have a sneaking suspicion, you wouldn’t be too upset about that ! ….

Annie BJune 21, 2015 at 1:23 am

To Michael Taylor —

My sincere apologies for being party to “running off topic” on your excellent article.

Just had to reply to some of the comments given – couldn’t help myself.

I will try not to let it happen again ! …. 🙂

brickbobJune 21, 2015 at 8:46 am

I congratulate you Dan on the stand you and your family have taken,should be more of it.

josephinewadlowJune 21, 2015 at 12:10 pm

An answer to Terry2 above in relation to Greg Hunt citing the fact that the body set up by this Government will operate as an ‘independent statutory authority’ – during the Howard era a report was made investigating the role of ‘independent statutory authorities’ and it came up with this http://www.finance.gov.au/sites/default/files/Uhrig-Report.pd – now archived – but still is of importance especially in its reference herewith and in today’s present ‘climate’ –

‘That government can engage in conduct through statutory authorities is a long and well-established concept. It follows that government, through Ministers, is accountable for statutory authorities. The accountability of specific Ministers is recognised through the Administrative Arrangements Order (AAO), issued from time to time by the Governor-General, which specifies the legislation administered by Ministers, including the enabling legislation of statutory authorities. Constitutionally, Ministers have a governance role and responsibility in respect of statutory authorities within their portfolios’…………………………

Perhaps the fact that it is well known that Minister’s under whose portfolios ‘statutory authorities’ and or ‘regulatory authorities’ will ‘interfere’ and have been known to ‘interfere’ and indeed orchestrate their own wishes through these seemingly ‘independent’ bodies leads us within the Public Arena to be more than skeptical when Greg Hunt cites the setting up of an ‘independent statutory authority’ especially when the people employed by his department will most certainly come under severe scrutiny by their ‘peers’ and we the Public…

Josephine

DanDarkJune 21, 2015 at 12:29 pm

brickbob I have been taking a stand since sept 7 2013
Last year I told the local pastor from some local church, its their own religion I think LOL
Its a Christian Community Church a married couple run it, she is a school teacher and he is a carpenter by day
So for about 6 years I have been putting their church flyers out about every 3 months, I charged them mates rates, so they were getting a cheap deal, when Phony Tony started attacking Muslim women for their head wear it happened to coincide with a delivery for them,
Janice rang in the morning to ask me to do flyers I said yea, if you get them here today they will start to go out tis arvo,
well one word led to another and I worked out she was on Phony Tonys Team,

I thought I let her know not to bother dropping their flyers off, but nooooo these fools didn’t get the message.
So Pastor Peter turns up on his push bike that arvo, I went out and asked if he agreed with his wife , he said he found women in niqabs confronting, I said back I find old men in budgie smugglers confronting, His reply was wait for it, “Tony cant help being filmed or photographed in his smugglers” I said he is an idiot, he wants everyone to see him half naked it boosts his male ego, Pastor Peter agreed with Tonys overkill on terrorists, He compared us with other countries when it came to this issue, and how lucky wew were blah blah blah

I said “geeezuz you have been brainwashed well and truly Peter” more was said I cant remember exactly now but as I handed his flyers back that he handed me when he got here, I said “so did you and Janice vote for the libs” He slowly very slowly said back “yes Janice and I made a pact to vote for Liberal when we got married”, they have been married 28 years or something,….
So then I just had to say “So now you can piss off with your Christian shit and don’t come back okay”
as I handed him his stack of flyers, He just sat there like a stunned mullet,
we went inside, and my 20 year old son said as we left the pastor stunned on front lawn LOL
“Mum I knew you were going to give it to him” I said “how son” he said “it was your eyes”
I said you know me well son better than that idiot Pastor” 🙂
we were just talking about the pastors last night after the Des episode,
oh no stuff them I let them know around here, I buy a lot of wool from the wool shop, I went in one day and Phony Tony came up,
they were laughing though at what I was saying about Phony Tony…
but I will not be silenced by anyone theses days, not even the Yocal Locals….:)

Ps and the Pastors are the worst paying clients, never pay on time and when I rang a couple of weeks after doing the job for them, Janice said oh can you ring me and remind me again, holy shit I just did ring you and remind you to pay me, dumb as dog doo doooo

brickbobJune 21, 2015 at 12:52 pm

That’s a great story and you really practise what you preach,i have also had run in’s with people like that on a smaller scale here in Brisbane and like yoy stand my ground. We kicked Newman out of Govt which is good of course,,but the new Labor mob are still going ahead with CSG and fracking and i and others will do battle with any Govt and their supporters to stop them,if we all do our bit as a collective we can stop these bastards from wrecking the joint.”””””

DanDarkJune 21, 2015 at 1:23 pm

Yeah its easy to talk the walk, but I walk the walk, I have 6 kids all wanted and loved and well educated, law abiding citizens, who I worry about especially my youngest who is only 9, I am 52 and I am afraid of the world she will be left to live in, because of my age etc I wont be around to protect her forever if ya get my gist, so I am teaching them how to survive without me I suppose, and to be clear who you are and what you will stand for and what you wont stand for,
Integrity, morals, values, compassion, empathy,honesty, patience and commonsense are what I instill in all my kids,
because if you cant stand up for what you know is right or wrong, then you are stuffed, be proud of being a lefty I say,
my 2 youngest are making macramed and beaded bracelets for our homeless at the moment, we are not well off but there is always someone worse off than us, and they are loving it, its a team effort, I knit stuff and they make the bracelets, monkey see monkey do,
so I am an example to my kids and I will teach them everything I know about life and how to survive Govs and people like we have now,
who are greedy bigots with no empathy only full of righteousness……
When someone asks me how much it costs to do this, I say back how much is a human life worth to you, um usually no answer from them,
geeez if I worried about what people said about me and to me,
I would of lied down and gave up years ago…. but noooo I am still here to shit them folks…. 🙂

mark delmegeJune 21, 2015 at 1:34 pm

brickbob I was told by an engineer during the week that methane is 80x worse than co2 as a climate changer and that as fracking and the like leak to the max they are effectively as bad as burning coal.

HarkobusJune 21, 2015 at 5:04 pm

Annie B.
Let’s pick this up again on a more appropriate page. I need some time to read your links and other comments.
I didn’t say anything about saving civilization all by myself although, sometimes it does feel that way.
Looking forward to continuing our stoush. Oh, and bring some friends. You’ll need some help.

brickbobJune 21, 2015 at 5:24 pm

You are right Mark,everybody is talking about the dangers of CO2 which is correct of course but methane is just as dangerous and there are some very dangerous places in the world where if the world keeps warming it will make CO2 look like a minor car accident.””””

HarquebusJune 21, 2015 at 7:18 pm

Arctic methane and CO2 is my greatest fear. If the clathrate gun fires, we will most definitely be toast. We will not survive it.

RoswellJune 21, 2015 at 8:03 pm

What the hell has that got to do with the topic?

Annie BJune 21, 2015 at 9:00 pm

Good question Roswell … this topic got off the rails – ( partly my fault – I own that ) … and need not be considered here any further.

I think it started with a verbal punch-up over RET and wind farms. !!!

……..

Good onya DanDark … for raising your children to appreciate, learn, and to be considerate and open.

Be great if 100% of parents did that — sadly, it does not happen !

Being of the ‘older generation’ … I am appalled at the lack of manners, sensibility, and discrimination – even after high level education – that abounds today. … But then, is that our / my own generations’ fault – by giving them way way more than they think they need ?

” we must have, so give it up ” is the mantra that comes from many kids of today. …. Keeping up with the Joneses’ is alive and well and living in society. …. It is horrid to observe.

JohnnydaddaJune 22, 2015 at 12:20 pm

A wind farm commission, but the National Privacy Commissioner has just quit.

Florence nee FedupJune 22, 2015 at 3:08 pm

Was that announcement deliberate education green paper deliberate this morning I wonder. Pyne and Hockey quick off the mark to close it down.

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juliefarthingJune 19, 2015 at 8:09 pm

Who would believe anything that comes out of Abbott’s mouth. Just more lies to add to the weight of his hypocrisy
paul walterJune 19, 2015 at 8:25 pm

Yes, all planned. That was why Credlin was so incensed at the pics taken of her- removed attention away from where Credlin want it focussed which is to say the ambush of the Opposition Leader, something of a non issue unless Bill was actually pocketing money intended as donations, for himself.
Andreas BimbaJune 19, 2015 at 8:29 pm

Such a farce. I blame the complicit mass media more than I blame the Minerals Council’s puppet Tony Abbott.

4 legs good, 2 legs bad! Baahahahaaah!
silkwormJune 19, 2015 at 8:37 pm

Yes, an orchestrated brain fart, designed to draw attention away from the cabinet revolt over giving Dutton power over citizenship, and from the scandal of paying US$ to people smugglers.
darrel nayJune 19, 2015 at 8:48 pm

Thanks Michael Taylor,

A wind farm nazi – yeah that’s just what we need. We had the septic nazi levying our community last week -what’s next? These endless unproductive beurocrats seem to fit the definition of a racket:

A fraudulent or otherwise illegal business practice. For example, a Ponzi scheme is a racket because no service is offered: new investors simply pay old investors.

Cheers
HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 8:49 pm

Considering that constructing wind farms is a waste of precious fossil fuel energy, I’m with Tony Abbott on this one.
And before you all go off half cocked, prove to me otherwise. I’ll bet my goolies, since I don’t use them much anymore, that you can’t. EROEI mates, EROEI. The laws of physics is on my side.

Harquebus?
darrel nayJune 19, 2015 at 8:52 pm

distraction from the illegal TPP maybe
paul walterJune 19, 2015 at 9:08 pm

Painful if you use them for door-stops, Harkobus.
John LordJune 19, 2015 at 9:08 pm

I live near Hazelwood. Can we please have a Coal Commisioner.
HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 9:10 pm

@paul walter
Really? Thanks for the tip. I’ll be sure not to try.

@John Lord.
I believe I owe you an apology. I sincerely do apologize.
Michael TaylorJune 19, 2015 at 9:35 pm

Following what was happening in Britain, the Gillard Government introduced something similar. She had her departments set up blog sites where ‘ideas’ were put out there to see what the public reaction was like. Epic fails, as no one read government department’s blogs.

People were then employed to go onto more popular sites to put ideas into the public domain.

No, I wasn’t one of those people, but I was aware of the ‘policy’.
bobraftoJune 19, 2015 at 9:52 pm

I think I read somewhere some time ago that Abbott claimed he could beat Shorten and he wasn’t hedging his bets when he called a RC into the unions.

Now Abbott is beating the ISIS crap over Shorten’s head.

One SMH story headline was: Will Shorten lead the coalition to victory?

If there is adverse findings against Shorten and he is already on the back foot, a snap double dissolution is coming, my opinion.

Should Bill step down and be replaced by Tanya? That would be my choice, how many leaders have voluntarily given up their power? I don’t think there are many, most will cling on till they are stabbed in the back.
mark delmegeJune 19, 2015 at 9:58 pm

Its amazing really … the coal industry is on its last legs and even the oil industry is having trouble – and its not irrelevant to the argument that the Saudi’s crashed the oil price – hoping to put off the burgeoning clean and competing energy sources for as long as possible.
Florence nee FedupJune 19, 2015 at 10:07 pm

I suspect Abbott knows what he is doing, with every word he utters. Well Turnbull instead turn back might not have been planned.

He has two phrases he uses over and over. Ones he intends to take into the next campaign, well maybe the one he is on now.

I stopped the boats and cut the carbon tax. Both are in danger blowing up in his face.

It is becoming clear, as any thinking person would have expected, the boats have not stopped. What’s more, our relations with Indonesia and rest of the globe is deteriorating because of thus policy.

The second, Cutting that tax doesn’t look so clever now. People are turning back to taking on board, that carbon emissions have to be cut. Many see that CST suite of bills was working, that was contributing more to the economy than taking from it.

There are a couple of other sleepers, that could raise their ugly heads for Abbott. NBNCo is not delivering. The cuts they made since coming to power, are now being noticed on every front. NGO and community based services are now closing down.

Paris, now especially since the Pope is falling into behind a clean renewal energy future, is minefield for Abbott, whether he has the guts to attend or not.
Time is not on Abbott’s side. Is on Labor’s.

The dominoes are not falling into place, as Abbott planned., Especially if Shortens relaxed attitude to TURC is as it appears. I have watch these proceedings.. They are stacked against the unions. Cross examination is hindered.

Behaviour of employers not allow to be bought into proceedings.

From what I have seen, they will allow Shorten to give his view in July, Some cross examination will take place. It will then be adjourned to later in the year, maybe closer to a election called by Abbott. They will then spend time, bringing in witnesses that have it in for Shorten. Doesn’t matter if they are proven liars or not, they will used that testimony to cross examine Shorten later in the year.

That is what is happening now with AWU, TWU and CFMEU. Playing one off against the other.

I bet Shepherd will not be called. Suspect Shorten would have trouble using him as a witness. That is not the way this RC works.

Stolger has hand over questioning to a woman. Not sure of her name. Other solicitors seem to have given up, trying to intervene in proceedings, Like the Opposition in QT with Bishop, doesn’t no good.

Shorten is going have to be good to pull it off. He doesn’t have the public standing that Gillard had.
Rocky times ahead.

Shorten has known this was coming from day one.

Shorten did survive the rape allegations, but even there, there a barristers waiting to begin private proceedings on behalf of the victim. Not sure why. after saying they would, they have not done anything yet.
JexpatJune 19, 2015 at 10:09 pm

They’re also quite adept at getting the rest of the media outlets to jump to the tune- topped off with the publication of astroturf “letters to the editor.”

The Murdoch media is not the only problem here- just as it’s not in the US (though at least the most backward of right wing extremist US states isn’t stupid enough to jump off- much less derail this gravy train.

Nope. Australia thanks in large part to its feckless media (from top down and bottom up) has become exceptional (and exceptionally stupid) in this regard.
JexpatJune 19, 2015 at 10:15 pm

bobrafto:

Not to worry about ISIS.

I had the recent misfortune to see Jurrasic (product placement) World in the theatre. Several scenes clearly telegraphed the sequel (complete with the evil genius making off with the embyos on a military black ops helicopter).

ISIS and their supporters (and maybe the Abbott & Bush sorts and supporters, too) will be taken out by heaps of genetically modified “smart dinosaurs.” I’m guessing the script has already been written.
HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 11:03 pm

This article contains a flaw. Wind and solar energy generators can not be made without fossil fuels.

“It has become impossible to ignore the systemic financial risks inherent in the production of coal, oil and other fossil fuels.”
“Companies like Exxon and Chevron are betting that the next 100 years will look a lot like the last 100 years, even though the facts suggest otherwise. Investors, analysts, and even the Pope can see the writing on the wall”
http://www.forbes.com/sites/mindylubber/2015/06/18/day-of-reckoning-for-fossil-fuel-industry/
stephentardrewJune 19, 2015 at 11:15 pm

Agreed Michael they stage plan and run everything past focus groups even if they are covered in prejudice. The interesting thing is that this is all deflection from the economy. Hockey and Coreman have escaped tight scrutiny as the budget has gradually been exposed as a non-stimulatory and includes further redistribution of wealth. The upcoming TPP vote will have enormous implications for our sovereignty and I fear Labor is too close to the L-NP on this issue. However if it gets public derision Labor may change tack.

The question always to ask is what the hell are they hiding. They know well the economy is is a mess while shorten is immersed in small item issues the are constrained by the constitution and High Court as he tries to step around refugees and invasion of privacy. Abbott is trying to cover his lying promises by directing attention to emotional fear based single item issues.

Labor is being sidelined as Shorten now pays for his low profile pseudo bipartisanship while he ignored the issues of pensions to try and hedge the Greens and now has egg on his face.

What a vacillating insecure lot they are.
HarkobusJune 19, 2015 at 11:20 pm

There are many theories about the Saudi’s oil production. My favorite is that they are getting as much as they can as fast as they can before the global credit economy falls in a heap and their business model collapses.
mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 12:47 am

If we all rang TABbot on his mobile phone we might fry his brain before he can call a snap election.
mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 1:15 am

Harkobus you cant ignore price sensitivity when in comes to new technology
ItsazoosueJune 20, 2015 at 1:23 am

Harkobus, your comment contains a flaw. As much as you love to hark upon the fact that “wind and solar energy generators cannot be made without fossil fuel”, the above article did not negate that position. Nor did it even mention it. You brought it up. Again (Are Wind Farms Noisy?).

Anyone for the bleeding obvious? At present, of course, that is the case. Are you suggesting that a switch to renewable energy should or could occur in an instant? Horse-drawn carts probably pulled parts for the first automobiles too but it did nothing to stave off their obsolescence.

Yes, there are gaps in the new sector technology but why not start bridging them now, while non-renewable energy sources are still available? If not now, when?

Let us say that I have the option of installing solar power, a wind turbine or a petrol generator at my property. All are currently produced using fossil fuels yet only the latter continues to impact upon our carbon footprint and non-renewable fuel sources. Petrol costs money. Sunshine and wind do not. Why wouldn’t I choose renewable energy?

I believe in anthropogenic global warming and that we need to adopt clean, renewable energy sources as soon as possible. Why? Science aside, if it turns out that I am wrong, I will be able to live with myself.
Annie BJune 20, 2015 at 2:12 am

The current government in this country, turn their blind eyes to everything that can be good – and we are all meant to feel degraded, hopeless and in fear, because of their diversionary tactics, exaggerations, inflammatory remarks and secrecy. …

But, agree with Michael – there are times that T A knows exactly what he is doing. … Damn right he does – it’s called being cunning ( among other things ).

It is fear mongering, that is rotten. … Another fear put out for us to digest, dangerous audible noise to humans from wind turbines …. the current gov’mint is ( TA says ) setting up a ‘wind farm commissioner’ to investigate this noise impact. He’s saying this in a vain and desperate attempt to justify the ridiculous anti-RET statements he’s made, and the fact that he obviously wants to keep his precious coal ( and the crap it spews ). …

If it weren’t so potentially serious ( for our economy under this government ), it would be laughable that China is backing off the coal import thing, and looking seriously at all forms of renewable energy.

“There is much to praise about China’s enthusiasm for renewable energy.
To the extent that it substitutes for fossil fuels, renewable energy helps to slow
the growth of China’s greenhouse gas emissions while alleviating its notorious
air pollution more generally. Renewable energy also promises to improve
China’s energy security, both by diversifying its sources of supply and by
reducing its need to import supplies. ” … from :

https://crawford.anu.edu.au/files/uploads/crawford01_cap_anu_edu_au/2013-10/chinas_search_for_renewable_energy.pdf …. a 22 page read, if anyone wants
to wade through it. !

While the abbott is about it, perhaps he should line up many more ‘commissioners to look into’ – domestic violence, the use of insecticides and pesticides on our foods, the suffering ( at his hands ) of legitimate refugees, the impact of illegal drugs, [ especially ‘ice’ ], the road toll, paedophilia, street violence, the probability of hand guns being more and more available, public transport — you can all add a lot to this list.

A new ‘ commissioner ‘ eh ? … all another big con by the greatest con artists this country ( perhaps the world ?) has ever seen.
mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 2:45 am

next will be an attack on rooftop solar…oh wait
Terry2June 20, 2015 at 7:05 am

I heard Greg Hunt on ABC Drive talking about this Wind Farm commissioner. Hunt emphasised that this is a ‘non statutory’ position and won’t cost any money; he failed to mention that this appointment will have no powers or authority over the states who actually have the jurisdiction over wind farms.

He also failed to mention that this was a sop to the Independents so that they will agree to include the burning of forest/sawmill waste (i.e. wood) in the Renewable Energy Target.

When will this nightmare go away?

As you say , Michael, nothing in government happens by accident but this government is itself a massive train smash and a total embarrassment to this nation.

Yesterday, on the same program, I heard Greg Sheridan from The Australian saying that if the payments made to people smugglers by the Abbott government were made to ASIS then it was all OK as they have an overriding statutory obligation to maintain national security.

No, No, No, a thousand times No ! We cannot allow ourselves to be drawn into delusional Abbott-land to say that payments funnelled through the Dept of Immigration suddenly become legitimate when paid out by spooks : two wrongs will never make a right.

This is Abbott’s Watergate and we need our own Woodward and Bernstein to reveal that this emperor is naked and mus go.
Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 7:53 am

Refugees seeking asylum in wooden boats have nothing to do with security, Have nothing to do with Intelligence. They have legal tight, even under our law to come. Sheridan is wrong.
hughwebster2014June 20, 2015 at 7:57 am

Abbott should just listen to the Pope !
TurnLeft2016June 20, 2015 at 9:31 am

next well get the headlies that “Bill Shorten is weak on stopping the windmills”
AnomanderJune 20, 2015 at 10:29 am

Yes Michael – Abbott does know exactly what he is doing, and we are being forced to supply our own KY gel.
mars08June 20, 2015 at 11:51 am

Anomander:

…Abbott does know exactly what he is doing…

That’s sarcasm, right?

No doubt there are those lobbying the Coalition who know what’s going on… and there are those in the Abbott’s office who know what they’re doing…

But I seriously doubt that the fear-mongering, knuckle-dragging, bumbling “man” himself has any idea on how to SET an agenda…
brickbobJune 20, 2015 at 12:03 pm

Any one who voted for this Govt last time and intends to do the same next time should seriously consider the state of their mental health.
DanDarkJune 20, 2015 at 12:24 pm

Brickbob I live in a town full of Lib Nats voters, just yesterday in the hardware store, old Des was winging that this year has been bad, worse than last year, no one is spending money at his shop, and he is a discount tools joint, I said back “its this gov we have they have slammed the country into reverse” he said back ” the last Lab gov were worse,”
Well holy shit he shouldn’t of said that LOL because I saw red and gave him a mouthful back with ” don’t ever compare :Labor to these mongrels, its the only come back you lib voters have, and Labor were meek compared to this lot of idiots, they are divisive, you got your 20 grand tax break whilst others are losing money so don’t be winging, you voted for the idiots Des”
The kids were with me and I said as we were leaving ” This will be the last time we step into this shop and we wont be putting his advertising flyers out for him anymore” another Lib bites the dust.
I was a loyal customer up until yesterday, but idiots like Des will vote for LNP again because its a habit, and a bad habit at that…
Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:02 pm

No mars08, not sarcasm. He has a plan from many years ago, and he is sticking to his script.
Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:04 pm

Big rise in application fees for divorce. Are they milking divorce for money, or is it simply ideological, not believing in divorce.
Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:08 pm

They are now demanding Shorten’s first wife appears at TURC to discuss what shareholding he had, when they married. Why? The have the power to subpoena his financial records. Doesn’t wash.
Florence nee FedupJune 20, 2015 at 1:10 pm

I wonder if they have been recording Shorten’s phone as it appears they have done with recent witnesses?
banistersmindJune 20, 2015 at 1:46 pm

And here I was thinking that the LNP were the party of small government.
diannaartJune 20, 2015 at 3:16 pm

When asked in interview (ABC), why we didn’t also have Coal, Fracking, Barrier Reef Commissioners (fill in already known health hazard of your choice), Greg Hunt mumbled we already had good people doing just that.

I was so disappointed he was not asked to name names.

I did ponder whether these ‘commissioners’ were in fact combined into one entire Environmental Minister (there being no Minister FOR the Environment), and Greg was feeling more than a tad overwhelmed – I am sure he could use the advice of, say, the newly independent Climate Council or even the knowledge of a Minister For Science (if we had one).

Michael is most likely right – the entire wind-farm commissioner thingy was staged – however Greg might have been feeling he just had too much of a workload to deal with the issue of wind-farms and begged Tony to be let off from dealing with the unproven health effects of wind-farms – too busy with the known knowns.
lawrencewinderJune 20, 2015 at 3:17 pm

It’s terrifying to think that all this is planned…(well the detail at least in the last 5 minutes) from the “Coots-With-Queer-Ideas-From-a-parallel-Universe” (IPA) Handbook. I remember writing some 2 years ago that this rabble’s election and their following “The Coot’s” Policy thought-bubbles would result in the demise of “Civil-Society”.
Well the rabble got elected and, Voila!
darrel nayJune 20, 2015 at 4:07 pm

reply for diannaart,

That ‘known knowns’ Rumsfeld quote is classic – but it has given me a mild case of cerebral indigestion.

Peace
totaramJune 20, 2015 at 4:32 pm

They always know what they are doing, to the extent that they know what they have been told to do. Whether they actually understand what they are doing, is something they don’t really care about too much, as long as the money rolls in. That’s why we have all the gaffs when they are asked a slightly penetrating question whose answer depends on understanding what they are doing.
HarkobusJune 20, 2015 at 8:03 pm

@Itsazoosue
I don’t advocate renewable energy generators at all. They are a complete waste of fossil fuel energy.
My solution, as always, is population reduction and the end to consumerism and to contract the economy. We can not shop our way to sustainability.
Horse-drawn carts will replace the automobile and any forward thinking person would get themselves one.
Sunshine and wind are free but, the collectors of their energy are not. These sources need to be collected from large areas or over a long period of time. Think how long it took for nature to concentrate and store solar energy in the form of fossil fuels which, I also do not advocate.
Clean, renewable energy does not exit. Not in the form that most of us think of anyway.
If you are wrong about future scientific discoveries, you will not be living with yourself, you will be dead, along with the rest of us.

“There is no renewables revolution in China. So, as always, I recommend that people spend some time with data sources such as the BP Statistical Review of World Energy and less time reading pundits and the instant experts of Twitter.”

There is no renewables revolution in China. Here are the numbers that show this
Annie BJune 20, 2015 at 8:56 pm

Harky is back – harping on all kinds of nasty stuff that promotes the end of civilisation. …

Which frankly, from his comment ( June 20, 2015 at 8:03 pm ) is fatalistic and appears to come a lot from the ‘dark side’.

“My solution, as always, is population reduction and the end to consumerism and to contract the economy. We can not shop our way to sustainability.”

So – you want folks to stop having children all over the world, let the population die off ( which it will do as people age ) ? and for organisations to stop servicing and protecting customers ( that’s what consumerism is, and what you want to put a stop to !! ). … Maybe we cannot ‘shop our way’ to sustainability, but there are a myriad of other ways we can sustain ourselves – if we look and we try. …

and you WISH for a contraction of the economy …. ??? … That actually is a downward trend … and you want it ?

Our own survival and ways of retaining sustainability, is not a plan that would be too much in your corner – methinks ?

……..
mark delmegeJune 20, 2015 at 9:10 pm

I’ll grant you one thing Harkobus last we added 40 millions mouths at the table and clearly this is unsustainable. And we certainly buy too much shit. Growth rates take no account of the triple bottom line and we are on the road to armageddon but not as it is usually meant though that could happen too. Boiling frogs and all that. We can’t keep doing what we are doing and expect any other outcome – but you try telling that to people…
Annie BJune 20, 2015 at 9:22 pm

@ Harkobus again – – –

Sure there would be a lot of currently resourced energy initially used in the building of say, wind farms, and hopefully more hydro-electric ( the best performer for renewable energy, apparently with high yield ) … solar capture etc. …. yep – lotsa coal fueled energy needed to begin with. …. it’s called ‘transition’ from one thing to another – and it must be done. And it CAN be done.

The ‘ long range forecast ‘ however, is a) the use of natural resources GROWING, in order to exclude the very thing that helped them to happen in the first place ( fossil fuels ) – a win in my opinion … and b) the ever present and ongoing research into technology and mechanical devices, that do NOT need for instance, generators continually operated by fossil fuels. ….. There is much going on in the scientific, technical and mechanical world to have the wind turbines become self sufficient in supplying their own needs – in terms of say, generators. …. There is also much endeavour to find a way ( and they are so close to it being ) to have wind turbines react to the smallest of winds. ( when it all began, a high velocity wind was required to operate the jolly things ) ….

I cannot at present find the links to this information – but I will try if anyone is interested.

You Harky – would NOT be interested ….. you are way too set in your ways of thinking – which I frankly don’t think is healthy for you. So – I will not rummage in my computer history for you, specifically.

And yes, I know about the millions of years it took for the planet to use and ‘metabolise’ ancient microbes and animal matter to produce what we now see as a lump of coal. …. I got that. … I don’t think however, that had much to do with solar energy as we now know it. …. of course the sun played a part in the breaking down processes, but it was so many eons ago, we only see the results of that now – – – – – in fossil fuel which this government wants to dig up, exploit, export ( good luck with that guys ) … and continue to use. …. Solar energy today is a direct situation from the rays of the sun – used.

The chart shown on that link is like many ‘charts’ … shows a disparate relationship between what was, and what now is. …. Renewable energy is comparatively new – which is all the chart shows. ? Ye Gods !!

It is easy to copy and paste from a site, as you did in your last paragraph above ( before the link ) … from a single person expressing an opinion. It is altogether another situation to actually READ what they advise to link to. … the BP Statistical Report for 2014. … Yep – things may have changed in up to 12 months, but the consensus of that report – shows overall consumption of fossil fuels has fallen. …. And you – nobody – could tell me that China will not be trying their damndest to catch up and match up, the general trend into non-fossil fuel use. … It is totally in their interest, economically and environmentally, to do so.

( ah forget it – you are not listening anyway ).

,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Kindly stop kidding yourself. …..
paul walterJune 20, 2015 at 10:46 pm

Yes, the hard right has had “plans” for decades, slowly they are implemented. It is a curious juxtaposition that reactionaries can be both insane and capable of detailed planning and implementation of such plans. When one soldier falls (say, Howard in 2007, on miscalculations concerning industrial relations) another zealot, say like Abbott, will step forward to continue the class warfare…they are like Daleks.
HarkobusJune 20, 2015 at 10:46 pm

Annie B.

For a start, I do not promote the end of civilisation, I am trying to avoid it. Some here just will not comprehend our situation.

I do want people to stop having children all over the world and to let the population reduce through natural attrition. At least I did. It is too late for that now.

“there are a myriad of other ways we can sustain ourselves”. Care to name a few? The latest I have heard is harvesting insects.
“Right now cricket flour is still something of a novelty, but we’re about to move into the next stage when insects become readily available as a food ingredient and we’ll see far more diversity in terms of products.”
http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/R-D/Tiny-Farms-Edible-insects-will-be-be-mainstream-in-future
Call this progress?

It is only corporate greed that requires economic growth. How much more of our world do you want to destroy in this mad pursuit. Money is made via fractional reserve banking. That is money is borrowed into existence. Growth is required to reduce the proportion of debt to GDP and is why governments and banks pursue it with zeal. They are attempting to grow their way out of debt.

If as you say, we use fossil fuels to build wind and solar, thereafter, the number of wind and solar energy collectors will begin to diminish as they are not able to replicate themselves due to the law of diminishing energy returns.

I am keenly interested in what you have got to say. I soon I can get you to understand fully the relationship between energy, productivity and the economy, you will be a great asset to me.

The link I posted because, I have recently come across it and someone here mentioned China’s renewables. I just put it up for for general interest and information and as a talking point.

I could say that you are kidding yourself but, I won’t.

Don’t stop. Bring it on please. I need people like you who fail in their logic to highlight the absurdities that you promote.

You might like this one. The author thinks that renewables can replicate but, fails to mention the law of diminishing energy returns.
“the all-renewable industrial economy of the future will be less mobile and will produce fewer and more expensive goods.”

Renewable Energy Will Not Support Economic Growth
Annie BJune 21, 2015 at 1:11 am

Harquebus –

” For a start, I do not promote the end of civilisation, I am trying to avoid it.”

You ( singularly ) are trying to avoid the end of civilisation ? … how ? .. And who do you really think you are to be able to do such a thing ? … if it ends, matey, it ends. …. and the way the powers in this world appear to think and blab at times, it could well have nothing whatsoever to do with renewable energies, growing vegies in the back garden, worrying about climate change, saving water, or any other darned thing. … It could end ( perhaps – nothing is written in stone yet ) … with a cataclysmic clash of nuclear powers.

http://www.landlearnnsw.org.au/sustainability/what-is-sustainability
http://www.sustainabilitydictionary.com/category/v/
and from : http://www.epa.gov/sustainability/basicinfo.htm

“Sustainability is based on a simple principle: Everything that we need for our survival and well-being depends, either directly or indirectly, on our natural environment.� Sustainability creates and maintains the conditions under which humans and nature can exist in productive harmony, that permit fulfilling the social, economic and other requirements of present and future generations.

Sustainability is important to making sure that we have and will continue to have, �the water, materials, and resources to protect human health and our environment.”

This is true – we have to strive to live in harmony with one another, and with the planet we live on. … there are many who are attempting that, including myself in a tiny way. … Tiny, in-so-far-as, I am one person who can only do what I do – I cannot sweep the world with my intentions.

People like the leader of our country do not want to entertain that idea. THAT is the problem we face here, and others face elsewhere in the world. … If all else fails, Mother Nature will move to teach us all a very very big lesson. …. She is beginning to do so now.

You bring in the subject ( by link ) about ‘cricket flour’ ??? …. You seem grossed out about that. … Wanting to maintain the status quo ? while saying it is all ‘too late’ ? … Yes – using crickets to make flour is a stretch – a big one, but why bother to use that example to further your argument ? …. Insect eating is already common in many countries. ….. I am not going to list the number of ways humans can sustain their lives and living – do your own homework – if you dare to.

Wind and solar cannot replicate themselves ? …. Right on Macduff. … However – fossil fuels ultimately are mined out – never to be touched again, cos ‘ there ain’t no more from whence it came ‘. … That too, ultimately cannot be replicated.

But what CAN replicate itself, is humanity. …. I believe in humanity, human-ness, human abilities, experience and knowledge, and the ability of humans to survive. … And at this time, global society is endeavouring to find ways to do just that ( with one exception – the LNP here ) …. Survival instinct is paramount, and will remain so – unless some idiot presses the red button that blows us all to eternity.

” you will be a great asset to me.” AND ” I need people like you who fail in their logic to highlight the absurdities that you promote. “ …. Pardon ?

Just who the heck do you really think you are ? …. I would not want to be any form of asset to you in any way whatsoever, therefore, will not ‘bring it on’ … just to have you try and slam me down for expressing an opinion. We have one already in this country who tries desperately to dumb down the populace, with inane and scare tactic mutterings. …. His ambitions are higher than yours on that score. !!

This then is an end to all of this conversation – by my choice. … But I have a sneaking suspicion, you wouldn’t be too upset about that ! ….
Annie BJune 21, 2015 at 1:23 am

To Michael Taylor —

My sincere apologies for being party to “running off topic” on your excellent article.

Just had to reply to some of the comments given – couldn’t help myself.

I will try not to let it happen again ! …. 🙂
brickbobJune 21, 2015 at 8:46 am

I congratulate you Dan on the stand you and your family have taken,should be more of it.
josephinewadlowJune 21, 2015 at 12:10 pm

An answer to Terry2 above in relation to Greg Hunt citing the fact that the body set up by this Government will operate as an ‘independent statutory authority’ – during the Howard era a report was made investigating the role of ‘independent statutory authorities’ and it came up with this http://www.finance.gov.au/sites/default/files/Uhrig-Report.pd – now archived – but still is of importance especially in its reference herewith and in today’s present ‘climate’ –

‘That government can engage in conduct through statutory authorities is a long and well-established concept. It follows that government, through Ministers, is accountable for statutory authorities. The accountability of specific Ministers is recognised through the Administrative Arrangements Order (AAO), issued from time to time by the Governor-General, which specifies the legislation administered by Ministers, including the enabling legislation of statutory authorities. Constitutionally, Ministers have a governance role and responsibility in respect of statutory authorities within their portfolios’…………………………

Perhaps the fact that it is well known that Minister’s under whose portfolios ‘statutory authorities’ and or ‘regulatory authorities’ will ‘interfere’ and have been known to ‘interfere’ and indeed orchestrate their own wishes through these seemingly ‘independent’ bodies leads us within the Public Arena to be more than skeptical when Greg Hunt cites the setting up of an ‘independent statutory authority’ especially when the people employed by his department will most certainly come under severe scrutiny by their ‘peers’ and we the Public…

Josephine
DanDarkJune 21, 2015 at 12:29 pm

brickbob I have been taking a stand since sept 7 2013
Last year I told the local pastor from some local church, its their own religion I think LOL
Its a Christian Community Church a married couple run it, she is a school teacher and he is a carpenter by day
So for about 6 years I have been putting their church flyers out about every 3 months, I charged them mates rates, so they were getting a cheap deal, when Phony Tony started attacking Muslim women for their head wear it happened to coincide with a delivery for them,
Janice rang in the morning to ask me to do flyers I said yea, if you get them here today they will start to go out tis arvo,
well one word led to another and I worked out she was on Phony Tonys Team,

I thought I let her know not to bother dropping their flyers off, but nooooo these fools didn’t get the message.
So Pastor Peter turns up on his push bike that arvo, I went out and asked if he agreed with his wife , he said he found women in niqabs confronting, I said back I find old men in budgie smugglers confronting, His reply was wait for it, “Tony cant help being filmed or photographed in his smugglers” I said he is an idiot, he wants everyone to see him half naked it boosts his male ego, Pastor Peter agreed with Tonys overkill on terrorists, He compared us with other countries when it came to this issue, and how lucky wew were blah blah blah

I said “geeezuz you have been brainwashed well and truly Peter” more was said I cant remember exactly now but as I handed his flyers back that he handed me when he got here, I said “so did you and Janice vote for the libs” He slowly very slowly said back “yes Janice and I made a pact to vote for Liberal when we got married”, they have been married 28 years or something,….
So then I just had to say “So now you can piss off with your Christian shit and don’t come back okay”
as I handed him his stack of flyers, He just sat there like a stunned mullet,
we went inside, and my 20 year old son said as we left the pastor stunned on front lawn LOL
“Mum I knew you were going to give it to him” I said “how son” he said “it was your eyes”
I said you know me well son better than that idiot Pastor” 🙂
we were just talking about the pastors last night after the Des episode,
oh no stuff them I let them know around here, I buy a lot of wool from the wool shop, I went in one day and Phony Tony came up,
they were laughing though at what I was saying about Phony Tony…
but I will not be silenced by anyone theses days, not even the Yocal Locals….:)

Ps and the Pastors are the worst paying clients, never pay on time and when I rang a couple of weeks after doing the job for them, Janice said oh can you ring me and remind me again, holy shit I just did ring you and remind you to pay me, dumb as dog doo doooo
brickbobJune 21, 2015 at 12:52 pm

That’s a great story and you really practise what you preach,i have also had run in’s with people like that on a smaller scale here in Brisbane and like yoy stand my ground. We kicked Newman out of Govt which is good of course,,but the new Labor mob are still going ahead with CSG and fracking and i and others will do battle with any Govt and their supporters to stop them,if we all do our bit as a collective we can stop these bastards from wrecking the joint.”””””
DanDarkJune 21, 2015 at 1:23 pm

Yeah its easy to talk the walk, but I walk the walk, I have 6 kids all wanted and loved and well educated, law abiding citizens, who I worry about especially my youngest who is only 9, I am 52 and I am afraid of the world she will be left to live in, because of my age etc I wont be around to protect her forever if ya get my gist, so I am teaching them how to survive without me I suppose, and to be clear who you are and what you will stand for and what you wont stand for,
Integrity, morals, values, compassion, empathy,honesty, patience and commonsense are what I instill in all my kids,
because if you cant stand up for what you know is right or wrong, then you are stuffed, be proud of being a lefty I say,
my 2 youngest are making macramed and beaded bracelets for our homeless at the moment, we are not well off but there is always someone worse off than us, and they are loving it, its a team effort, I knit stuff and they make the bracelets, monkey see monkey do,
so I am an example to my kids and I will teach them everything I know about life and how to survive Govs and people like we have now,
who are greedy bigots with no empathy only full of righteousness……
When someone asks me how much it costs to do this, I say back how much is a human life worth to you, um usually no answer from them,
geeez if I worried about what people said about me and to me,
I would of lied down and gave up years ago…. but noooo I am still here to shit them folks…. 🙂
mark delmegeJune 21, 2015 at 1:34 pm

brickbob I was told by an engineer during the week that methane is 80x worse than co2 as a climate changer and that as fracking and the like leak to the max they are effectively as bad as burning coal.
HarkobusJune 21, 2015 at 5:04 pm

Annie B.
Let’s pick this up again on a more appropriate page. I need some time to read your links and other comments.
I didn’t say anything about saving civilization all by myself although, sometimes it does feel that way.
Looking forward to continuing our stoush. Oh, and bring some friends. You’ll need some help.
brickbobJune 21, 2015 at 5:24 pm

You are right Mark,everybody is talking about the dangers of CO2 which is correct of course but methane is just as dangerous and there are some very dangerous places in the world where if the world keeps warming it will make CO2 look like a minor car accident.””””
HarquebusJune 21, 2015 at 7:18 pm

Arctic methane and CO2 is my greatest fear. If the clathrate gun fires, we will most definitely be toast. We will not survive it.
RoswellJune 21, 2015 at 8:03 pm

What the hell has that got to do with the topic?
Annie BJune 21, 2015 at 9:00 pm

Good question Roswell … this topic got off the rails – ( partly my fault – I own that ) … and need not be considered here any further.

I think it started with a verbal punch-up over RET and wind farms. !!!

……..

Good onya DanDark … for raising your children to appreciate, learn, and to be considerate and open.

Be great if 100% of parents did that — sadly, it does not happen !

Being of the ‘older generation’ … I am appalled at the lack of manners, sensibility, and discrimination – even after high level education – that abounds today. … But then, is that our / my own generations’ fault – by giving them way way more than they think they need ?

” we must have, so give it up ” is the mantra that comes from many kids of today. …. Keeping up with the Joneses’ is alive and well and living in society. …. It is horrid to observe.
JohnnydaddaJune 22, 2015 at 12:20 pm

A wind farm commission, but the National Privacy Commissioner has just quit.
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