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Will Tony Abbott have the courage to accept some blame for the Victorian loss?

Federal politicians have always been quick to point out that party losses at the State level have been, and always will be, because of State issues. Federal politics and personalities play no part whatsoever in the election and the subsequent result; it’s fought on State turf.

Yet … federal politicians have also been quick to point out that victories at the State level – for their party – were delivered as a protest vote against the ruling federal party, should of course, they themselves be in opposition at the time.

Or they could go completely overboard – such as Tony Abbott did after Labor’s loss in the Tasmanian State election – and announce that they single-handedly won the election for their State counterparts.

(Mind you, when the South Australian State election didn’t go the way Abbott had hoped, he went to great pains not to comment on suggestions his involvement in the campaign had a negative impact on the Liberals’ result).

News is now in that the Napthine Government has been kicked out after only one term. Already members of Abbott’s Government have distanced themselves from the result. Head on over to Twitter and look at the ‘it wasn’t us’ tweets.

I live in Victoria and this is the first Victorian State election I’ve voted in. However, I haven’t been here long enough to have much of an idea about State issues and what issues the parties have campaigned on. So I went against my ‘norm’ and registered a protest vote against the Federal Government, and in particular Tony Abbott.

I wasn’t alone. Speaking to polling-booth volunteers, the message was the same: people weren’t voting against Napthine – they were voting against Abbott (or his government/Hockey’s budget). In the word of one voter, just to “watch him squirm”. Again, head on over to Twitter but this time look for the ‘it was them’ tweets. They dominate Twitter.

Pre-election it was forecast that Abbott could be the factor that will lose the election for Napthine. It looks to be the way.

But will he squirm? I doubt it.

Either he won’t have the courage or he is so full of hubris that he is blind to the simple fact that he’s totally on the nose. In 2016 he will join Napthine as the leader of a ‘one-term’ government.

Nonetheless, I look forward to what he has to say about the Victorian election result.

Is he in hiding?

 

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235 comments

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  1. DanDark

    “Naptime has been kicked to the kerb, The ABC are calling it a win for Labor, Mary Woolridge still has her head in the sand like a typical lib ostrich 🙂

  2. pollysibyl

    The desperation of flying in Julie Bishop to hug some kids over the last few days says it all, really. Was hilarious!

  3. Michael Taylor

    Watching videos on ABC online I see that the message was the same: people were voting against Abbott.

  4. John Fraser

    <

    Abbott Abbotts a bully …. and bullies don't like taking their own medicine.

    Lets hope Queenslanders do the same to newman next year.

    And follow up with a 3 word slogan ….. "One Term Tony".

  5. paul walter

    The one thing I think noteworthy, as a peripheral issue, would be, how iwas it that the swing wasn’t even larger, given the astounding and crankish behaviour of the Federal Government

  6. Chris Ellis

    No.

  7. John Fraser

    <

    @Paul Walter

    Still almost 1 million postal votes to be counted.

    That could be an even bigger kick in the nuts for Abbott Abbott.

  8. Carol Taylor

    Kevin Andrews has commented that it’s all about State issues..of course, issues such as health and education..so clearly not a scrap to do with the Federal government. 😯

  9. joni

    I just hope the rest of Australia wakes up to Abbott at the next Federal Election.

    (joni waves to all from London)

  10. Gilly

    Abbott and responsibility, HAHAHAHA. remember he is doing a sterling job, never mind what even Jones, Bolt or Albrechtsen might say he is Pope and PM all powerful and infallible. Gee he doesn’t even have to talk to or consult with anyone, this is what he was born for.

  11. Michael Taylor

    The outgoing Victorian Treasurer has blamed Joe Hockey.

  12. Salstarat

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! This is a day for the TRUE BELIEVERS! Napthine has been unceremoniously kicked to the kerb and the stench of the federal LNP played a HUGE part in his downfall. Abbott and his vile cabinet of psychopaths are about as popular as a castor oil enema so the convincing win by Victoria’s State Labor Party comes as no surprise. It was as inevitable as daylight but you can bet that the myopic, dumbed down Abbott and his cohorts will REFUSE to acknowledge any responsibility in the downfall of Victoria’s State LNP! It is laughable really as the unending corruption, the LIES, LIES LIES, broken promises, the swaggering offensive arrogance of Abbott and his steadfast REFUSAL to listen to the electorate has ensured the only appropriate outcome in Victoria. The federal government are INCAPABLE of learning from their mistakes … so be it! Let’s hope that the One Term Napthine result will extend to the ONE TERM TONY … the clock is ticking and Abbott is becoming more and more detestable, more arrogant, more corrupt to the point he is absolutely remorselessly unconscionable. His demise will be celebrated throughout the world.

    Congratulations to the people of Victoria for sending Abbott a STRONG message that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! It gives Australians a real glimmer of hope that things WILL change and that once we get rid of the most malignant government in our history, then … and only then … will we have hope for our children’s future and the future of our environment which is being plundered and raped by the LNP at State and Federal levels.

  13. Florence nee Fedup

    Tony will not even understand, that he could be to blame,. Abbott does not realise that may care not about repealing MRRT/CEF or stopping boats. Has not affected their lives.

    Does not understand how badly his toxic budget affects their ability to keep their heads above water.

    Carbon emissions is still a problem with many, So is the closing own of all work sites, especially unionise ones,

  14. DanDark

    Carol I saw Andrews dribbling on, it’s so pathetic and their excuses are more pathetic, but enjoying to watch them all squirming like the eels they are very slippery and slimy 🙂

  15. Carol Taylor

    Joni, in spite of a massive scare campaign about ‘union thugs’ and millions poured in at the last minute, it seems that owning a publicity machine aka the msm doesn’t always win you an election – next stop Tony gets booted. Waves from Victoria. 🙂

  16. DanDark

    Thanks Salstarat, being from Vic I am proud of my state tonight, and yes a clear message to all Libs ” Enough is enough” don’t take the people on and think you will win 🙂

  17. Terry2

    Clearly the issues were Health, education and Jobs : three things that the Abbott government have done their best to undermine and damage – and of course the pork barrel over the East west Link funding which was an insult to the state of Victoria : Tony it’s not your money !!!

    One term governments can and will be thrown out, Mr Abbott.

  18. Roswell

    Any word from Abbott yet?

    Oh, and hello Joni.

  19. Roswell

    Message to the federal Liberals: if a prime minister can have such a negative effect in a state election, just imagine what he could do to the federal one.

  20. DanDark

    Roswell, that’s if Tones lasts the distance, I bet he won’t………..

  21. John Kelly

    I have never had an issue with Denis Napthine. He is a decent man, if not a touch too soft on the hustings. He was not the reason for the Liberal loss tonight. That honour goes squarely to Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey. The groundswell of distrust, deception and disregard for the democratic process in Canberra was first and foremost in the minds of those who changed their vote. For Abbott and co, things will only get worse.

  22. Christel Nathan

    John Kelly I am with you on this one this is sending a clear message to Abbott

  23. John Fraser

    <

    @John Kelly

    There might be some out there that disagree with you.

    Even from the little reported there appears to be some question marks against Napthine in relation to horses $ business etc

    In fact there are so many questions in relation to developers there should be an ICAC style Inquiry.

  24. DanDark

    John K there were local issues, I am for one sick of seeing the coloured writing all over our ambulances protesting Naptime and their treatment of them, the cuts to our firies recently, they have short memories after Black Saturday back in 2009
    My kids and I lived through those fires, something I don’t want to live through again if can be prevented, Abbott was a factor, but there were plenty of local issues too…

  25. DanDark

    Yep was a huge backlash on Gov over the death of the horse at Melbourne cup, he is in thick with Victorian racing club,

  26. Carol Taylor

    John F and even recently, as in the past few days, a suggestion of $300,000 for a road to suit a horse/business friend.

    Then there’s..

    “As soon as they came to office the Napthine/Baillieu Government abandoned Labor’s Victorian Schools Plan to renovate, rebuild or modernise every Victorian government school.

    And instead cut funding. Napthine did however recently promise a 3D printer for every secondary school..thanks heaps, a block of fully functioning toilets might have been a better sales pitch.

  27. John Fraser

    <

    @Carol Taylor

    Because I love Australia's architectural heritage so much I get really pissed when I see it being destroyed.

    And the ones who do the most to destroy it are the Liberals.

    Education cuts are right across the board with Tafes as well.

  28. John Fraser

    <

    @Erotic Moron

    Best if you go back and read your comment.

    Just in case you are having trouble doing that , as a community service i will copy and paste it here :

    "If people voted against the Liberal Government in Victoria to “protest” the Abbott Government it merely speaks to how completely f*cked in the head voters are. To applaud such idiocy, in any way whatever, is to likewise be f*cked in the head. I sincerely hope none of that is happening." Erotic Moustache

    I, and it would appear others here have done precisely that.

    So thanks for defining us in such a succinct way.

    And then you went on to say …. "And yes, anyone who protest votes against a Federal Government in a State election is a moron."

    Once again thanks for your definition.

    Perhaps you have had a long day after the storms the other day and haven't quite collected your thoughts.

    Humbly suggest you get some rest and try again later …. much later.

    Perhaps after educating yourself on how best to maximise a vote.

  29. John Fraser

    <

    @Erotic Moustache

    Are you saying that State Aussies should not vote …. in a State election …. against a Federal government that is fcuking up another part of Australia ?

    Is that what you are saying ?

  30. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser:

    I’m saying people who can’t tell the difference between State and Federal issues are morons. And yes, anyone who protest votes against a Federal Government in a State election is a moron.

  31. Michael Taylor

    So, EM, would you suggest then that Abbott is a moron for taking credit in the Tasmanian election?

  32. DanDark

    Touché Michael 🙂
    Politicians are quick enough to take credit, but fall short when it comes to wearing some blame in defeat…..

  33. John Fraser

    <

    Well you can kiss your arse and wave to the Great barrier Reef.

    Kiss your arse and wave goodbye to National Parks.

    Kiss your arse and wave goodbye to Australia's building heritage.

    Kiss your arse and wave and open your arms to the American "dream" and substandard way of living.

    Now tell everyone what a moron you are when you go to vote.

  34. Erotic Moustache

    M Taylor,

    Yes, as is any federal politician who does that sort of thing. Politicians are the worst offenders in terms of muddying the waters of electoral jurisdiction.

  35. DanDark

    Clive’s titanic has sunk in Vic, commentators say he is not even worth mentioning that much ” even though he spent a lot of money on campaign here”, the Pups are sunk 🙂

  36. Michael Taylor

    EM, I am one of the guilty ones for letting federal issues cloud my vote. I am then one of the morons you refer to. I’ve explained my position.

  37. Erotic Moustache

    Pup will feature in the Qld election because Queenslanders are notoriously stupid, politically. You can sort of glean that from the craziness of what they did last time.

  38. John Fraser

    <

    @EM

    Without doubt you are one MFing moron.

    You talk about State issues but have absolutely no idea about what is happening in ….. well Qld for starters.

    What State are you in ?

    Why don't you elucidate about that State so that we can all see what a moron you are in relation to your State issues.

  39. Erotic Moustache

    M Taylor,

    I suspect you voted along philosophical lines, based on your article. I have no issue with that. I vote that way myself. But, seriously, you must know that “protest” voting is meaningless other than in a personal context because no-one will ever know why you voted as you did. Oh, I suppose unless Newscorp does a phone survey asking if people protest voted.

  40. John Kelly

    Happy to be a moron, in your eyes, EM

  41. DanDark

    Not according to Laurie a Oaks, he said, “Clive will lose Fairfax next election and he is only going to be a one term wonder”,……. Clive isn’t a politician he is a fat cat miner pretending he is a politician to suit his own needs being lots of money…

  42. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser,

    Shove your stupid trolling up your backside. I vote Labor and live in Qld. I know the politics of this State – your State – quite well. PUP will do better than I’d like, Labor worse than I’d like, but the LNP will be placed in a position of peril for the next election. They will also almost certainly need a new leader.

    The Victorian result is very welcome and will certainly make Abbott more nervous than he’s been in some time. Nevertheless I reject State/Federal protest voting as an abuse of an important privilege. I can understand it in Mr Taylor’s circumstance, but I’d hate for it to become a trend of any sort.

  43. Erotic Moustache

    John Kelly,

    Right, so you voted against a Government that you didn’t actually have the capacity to vote against and you think that’s a sane thing, politically, to do. Or, are you suggesting that helping oust the Liberals at a State level will politically affect the state of play for them Federally? If so, I’m sort of willing to meet you half way on that but I can’t shake the feeling that it muddies the waters of State/Federal distinction and adds to an overall ignorance of political understanding in this country.

  44. John Fraser

    <

    @EM

    "Moron" ….. isn't that how you started your trolling comment ?

    You have shown everyone here exactly how much you know about voting and they have responded accordingly.

    Go and have a look in a mirror to see what a moron looks like.

  45. DanDark

    Laurie Oaks also said “if Tony Abbott dosnt take notice of this loss for Naptime and change like a lot of his own side is telling him, he will also be a one term Gov”

  46. DanDark

    Why and who people vote for is a personal choice, no body should tell anyone how to vote and why they should vote that way, a vote is a vote, and if its a protest vote to warn this Fed Gov so be it 🙂

  47. jusme

    Not only will Abbott take no responsibility but he’ll probably deny that his party just lost!
    He’s probably unaware of the result, too busy going over mondays list of excuses.

  48. Matters Not

    I have never had an issue with Denis Napthine. He is a decent man

    Probably a ‘decent’ man, but really, how relevant is that re the political/ideological contest that we are engaged in?

    Then there’s this:

    not the reason for the Liberal loss tonight. That honour goes squarely to Tony Abbott and Joe Hockey.

    Up to a point but generally, I must disagree. The problem, in the final analysis, isn’t the Abbotts or Hockeys of this world. They are but messengers. The fundamental problems is the ‘ideology’ they promote.

    Let’s be clear. While Abbott, Hockey and the like can (and perhaps) soon will be replaced, that doesn’t solve the ‘problem’.

    In short, let’s leave the ‘personalities in the background and concentrating on rejecting the ‘axiology’ that they are advancing.

  49. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser,

    I expressed my candid view on protest voting re: State/ Federal elections. That is not trolling. I did not direct it at any particular individual. I’d like to think I’m entitled to my view. You are free to disagree and I’m happy for you to also do so, candidly, which appears to be your style anyway. Do you disagree with my assessment with the likely outcome of the next Qld State election? If so I’d be interested to hear why. Newman appears to be in the middle of a very expensive propaganda and outright lie campaign.

  50. John Fraser

    <

    @Erotic Moustache

    Looks like I have been "trolling" on this site for a long time.

    Why Tony Abbott doesn’t understand

    Or else you are wrong again.

    Perhaps the Title of this Article should be changed from …. "Will Tony Abbott have the courage to accept some blame for the Victorian loss?"

    To ……. "Will Erotic Moustache have the courage to accept that his original comment was wrong and moronic". ?

  51. Erotic Moustache

    DanDark:

    Why and who people vote for is a personal choice, no body should tell anyone how to vote and why they should vote that way, a vote is a vote, and if its a protest vote to warn this Fed Gov so be it.

    How is it to be established that you voted to warn another Government? Did you leave a note on your ballot paper?

  52. Roswell

    Well there must be a lot of ‘morons’ out there. According to the Herald Sun, 46% of voters voted because of federal issues. I’d say that a lot of people are pissed off with Abbott. Are they morons? Nope.

  53. DanDark

    Erotic Moustache, shut the door on your way out….thanks 🙂

  54. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser:

    This shit is fun! WordPress blogs are way cool. Anyway:

    To ……. “Will Erotic Moustache have the courage to accept that his original comment was wrong and moronic”. ?

    My view is based on a principled stance. I am therefore not going to concede error without an argument. I have a funny feeling, however, you’re more likely to offer something else.

  55. Erotic Moustache

    Political pundits seem so mendacious and tedious to me; perhaps the fault is in my perception. If this were the other way round, politically, you’d all be denying the claim that the election had any Federal implications, as will Abbott and co.

    How about a single one of you answer the question of how it is to be established that your protest vote against another Government is the reason you voted as you did. Answer that satisfactorily and I’ll concede my error and hauteur.

  56. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser:

    Oh ! …. and thanks for showing your true colours.

    There’s something deeply ironic about that statement.

  57. stephentardrew

    Neurotic Moustache:

    Beddy by times for naughty foul mouth little boys.

    Now in the morning try to act like a big grown up could you.

    I thought we lived in a democracy allowing others to have their opinions. No people do not have to think like you because diversity is critical to democracy. Go waffle on with your like minded mates.

    An angry shrills who sounds a bit like Hockey and Abbott. A bit of self-reflection would not go astray.

    Abuse is for those who cannot mount a coherent well thought out argument.

    Your ranting scribbles and dribbles will be ignored from now on.

  58. Erotic Moustache

    Stephen,

    Changing a person’s username when replying to therm, even if it’s intended to be theatrical, is hardly a sign of maturity. You said, in a comically hypocritical vain, given the tone and temper of this blog:

    I thought we lived in a democracy allowing others to have their opinions. No people do not have to think like you because diversity is critical to democracy.

    I didn’t say otherwise. I expressed an opinion about those people as you do about your political enemies each and every day, in the most candid and venomous fashion imaginable.

    Jesus, are you people conscious or what?

  59. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser,

    “uriah Heep” Henderson and Moustache Erotica have much in common.

    I challenge you to name one way. Just one.

  60. John Fraser

    <

    @Moustache Erotica

    Everyone was conscious until you arrived.

    Now we are moribund.

    Your job is done ….. go and join Abbott Abbott.

  61. John Fraser

    <

    @Miniscule Erotic Moustache

    You are a cringing, slavering sycophant ….. Hendersons is just a sycophant.

  62. Erotic Moustache

    A sycophant to whom, the Labor party that I vote for? Are you nuts or what?

  63. DanDark

    Tones flew in on his broom and threatened voters if we didn’t tow the “Team Strayya” line and vote for Naptime he would pull the 3 billion dollars he had promised for a road that goes from East to west in Melbourne, it wont go on anything else just roads. Tones made himself front and center for a short time to say that crap, so hence we have a protest vote against him, he dug his own grave in Vic

    “Even the hotly contested issue of the East West Link has been mired in the federal sphere with much of the money coming from Canberra and Tony Abbott letting it be known that the billions committed would not be available for re-deployment on public transport if Labor were to win”

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-sweats-as-victorian-voters-cast-harsh-judgment-20141129-11wsgd.html

  64. stephentardrew

    DanDark I would not try reasoning with the unreasonable

  65. John Fraser

    <

    @MEM

    Your about as believable as ……….. "No cuts to the ABC or SBS".

    No need to try and convince me who you vote for ….. its plain to see in your comment above.

    Or was that a lie …. too ?

    Golly it must be difficult being a liar and defending a liar.

  66. DanDark

    lol yea I know Stephen, but I got nothing else to do right now, but gleam with happiness that Libs were booted out today in MY state, it has given me a little bit of hope now in my fellow Aussie 🙂

  67. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser,

    You are the sort of sick, partisan dumbass that makes me embarrassed to be a Labor supporter. Your presumptions are stupid; you are stupid. You clearly haven’t read any of my other posts. You are clearly too intellectually lazy to bother making any kind of argument to support your personal abuse and libel.

    My comment above gives you no reason whatever to believe I vote other than Labor. I suggest to you that you put down your cone or bottle of cheap cognac and have a good night. Otherwise I can do this shit all night, because I don’t care that this site’s “recent comment” section is now being filled with this bullshit, but I would have thought you do. But, maybe not.

  68. Rob031

    @Erotic Moustache. I’ve come in late after watching the Victorian election in the spa bath with a couple of bottles of fizzy white plonk. I’ve read your remarks and the responses to them.

    If I’ve got it right you’re annoyed that there is no definitive way of ascertaining how much of the vote to the ALP was for them and their policies and how much was a negative ‘signal’ to the federal Abbott Government. I think you also think that if you are voting in a state election it’s best to stick to state government stuff. Have I got these things correct?

    If so I take your point. But do try to appreciate, as in understand, that a hell of a lot of people in Victoria (and elsewhere) are so scared of and angry with Abbott & Co (and what they represent) that there will be a natural blurring as to what they’re voting for and against in the feeling contours of their minds. Also, that ‘the intensely angry ones’ are bursting to use the only opportunity they feel they have (election vote) to express their extreme displeasure – a form of ‘leakage’ if you like – and don’t wish to waste it.

    To insist or demand that the two (state Vs Federal) feelings can be neatly delineated and specified to your personal satisfaction is a tall order I think. It’d be great if such differences could be measured and used in such matters – of course. To insist or demand that the Victorians, who have the shits with the feds, put aside the latter and vote purely on the former issues is a good idea. To think that most who don’t or can’t do this are stupid or whatever is naive. Perhaps you are some kind of totally rational being or think you are. Most people are a tad more human.

    To finish off EM I read this blog a lot and have come to have a feel for where most people here are coming from. They care about people; and they resist attempts by people like Abbott, Murdoch and others to pervert our society. Sure they jump up and down like hell and swear and write emotionally at times. But if you take the trouble to cut us a bit of slack you’ll find that most articles posted here, and the comments they elicit, are intelligent and thoughtful. Perhaps you can, from now on, contribute in a similar vein as that would be most welcome.

    It’s not about us all agreeing with each other. It’s about pursuing lines of thought.

  69. Rob031

    About Napthine’s concession speech:

    I thought it was, overall, pretty okay. He strikes me as a pretty decent human being. Furthermore, I thought his references to the NDIS and Gonsky was a subtle sideswipe at the federal Coalition?

  70. June M Bullivant OAM

    It is not just Abbott, it is every LNP politician in every State, they all think alike, they are looking after themselves and not the people they represent.

  71. Colin

    If the past few days have taught us anything it is that Australians are great at coming together when terrible things happen. Someone here mentioned the 2009 bushfires, and there are many other examples. Do why do we have a PM who is so hell bent on dividing us?

  72. John Fraser

    <

    One idiot certainly hasn't ruined my delight at Labors knocking off a first term government in 60 years.

    But its overdue for Labor to address this :

    "Labor's decision to give preferences to the Country Alliance ahead of the Greens in Northern Victoria could prove costly for the new government, as it means it will need the support of more than the Greens to pass any legislation the Coalition opposes."

    Link : http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victoria-state-election-2014/micro-parties-to-control-victorian-upper-house-with-shooters-party-likely-winners-20141129-11wx66.html

    There's a conga line of "Liberals" who can't/won't negotiate ….. and its rare for a Julia Gillard to appear twice in a decade of politics.

  73. Lee

    @ Erotic Moustache – They all share the same ideology, whether at state or national level.

  74. Lee

    No the Feds just don’t get it. Yesterday SMH reported that Julie Bishop is attempting to reignite the nuclear energy debate. We have an abundance of uranium so let’s use it. We also have an abundance of sunlight and wind too, that do not pose the risk of a disaster in a nuclear power station. To be raising this issue on the eve of the Victorian election shows how clueless Bishop is.

  75. John Fraser

    <

    @Lee

    Desperately trying to obfuscate.

    Can't have Aussies saying …. "well look at what the Victorians have done in a State election".

    All Liberals painted with the Abbott Abbott brush and all just as likely to be thrown out of politics …. and that’s why The Greens are looking so good ….. Labor had better wake up to that.

  76. Terry2

    Lee

    This is a classical ” Don’t look here, look over there” moment from Julie Bishop.

    Certainly, if we have a national discussion on our future energy needs, nuclear will be part of that discourse but this is just a diversion to take some focus off a very bad federal government who will have to accept some responsibility for what has happened in Victoria.

  77. Lee

    Yeah but what a choice of topic to use for the exercise! Japan has still not recovered from their nuclear disaster a few years ago and we all know we have an abundance of sun and wind that we can use instead.

  78. corvus boreus

    Subjects three.

    It was stated that people using a state vote to slap federal incumbents are…not exercising full thoughtful consideration and wisdom of judgement(or words to that effect).
    This is true in that there is no clarity of expression to the reasons behind the message given by marking a rival candidate as number 1, but that is true of all votes, whether based on the best informed wisdom or the roll of a dice.
    Although there is a differentiation of powers between state and federal governments, the functions of the two are not completely separate. With the example of Queensland, the hazards posed to the populace and environment by the individual follies of the Abbott and Newman ‘governments’ is compounded when the two combine to collude and conspire to subvert and sabotage our safeguards.
    So a vote in a state election partially intended to punish or limit the powers of the federal incumbent is not necessarily an act of idiocy, but a practical way to refute and help defeat the Abbott agenda.

    The ‘level of decency’ of the outgoing premier Napthine is a subjective matter, relative to broader conduct and values.
    Against the current benchmark of integrity and decency in behavior defined by Anthony Abbott, I find myself remembering the conduct of John Winston Howard with diluted distaste(non-core promises and all).

    Lastly, it makes sense for the foreign minister to use the subject of yellow-cake peddling and domestic nuclear use as a distracting point and shout topic.
    As a former filibuster lawyer representing asbestos merchants, defending the practice of dealing in poisonous death is bread and butter to Julie Bishop.

  79. Möbius Ecko

    Shorter Josh Frydenberg on ABC News Breakfast.

    Nothing to do with Abbott, he’s doing a great job and has done more than being credited for.

    Reel of a list of Federal Liberal ministers and iterate what a great job they are doing.

    Napthine is a great leader and has done a wonderful job. Failed to sell what a great leader he is and the fantastic work he’s done for Victorians.

    Victoria now in deep shit and is doomed until Liberals win next election. Unions (boo!) will destroy the State and productivity will go backwards. Unions are running Victoria now, not Labor.

    A union campaign won the Victorian election.

    I’m seeing the same responses from the gutted Lib supporters on social media. It boils down to; “unions boo!”. Also raised a lot is the $1.1b Labor has apparently thrown away, which is their fault as the contract has been signed. Frydenberg also raised this point.

    Not one of them are blaming Napthine for signing the contract in a caretaker government just before an election and deliberately negotiating a remarkably high penalty cause.

  80. John Fraser

    <

    @corvus boreus

    A rictus smile while she sells her deadly product/ideology.

    Another Abbott Abbott liar, who sticks close by him.

  81. John Fraser

    <

    @Möbius Ecko

    Looks like Victorians prefer John Setka to Abbott Abbott.

    ROFLMAO

  82. Möbius Ecko

    What has struck me John Fraser are the senior Liberals who keep saying their polling woes are because they can’t sell the message. Not one will admit that no amount of spin and lies will sell spin and lies.

  83. John Fraser

    <

    @Möbius Ecko

    Best one I have seen …. "Liberal commentators faces are all looking like a cats bum".

  84. Terry2

    The Abbott government have tried to tie state grants to their preferred infrastructure projects, mainly roads as it fits with Tony’s ‘Infrastructure Prime Minister ‘ mantra.

    In Victoria it’s $3 billion for the East-west Link or nothing, in other states like NSW and Queensland it’s $1 billion only to build roads and only if they sell publicly owned assets such as electricity and port infrastructure.

    In this new paradigm you can no longer separate state from federal influences as states are not being given the freedom to nominate their priorities for federal co-funding : under the Abbott regime it’s roads, tunnels and freeways but emphatically not public transport – it’s an ideological divide and inevitably influences state election outcomes.

    There should be Constitutional safeguards taking political ideologies out of federal/ state funding but as the federal government have most of the revenue collection powers it is in the hands of an authoritarian regime to try and use this power to influence state political outcomes – it didn’t work out this time because Australians don’t like to be told how to vote.

  85. Michael Taylor

    9NEWS Political Editor Laurie Oakes has had the final say on the Victorian state election, blaming Prime Minister Tony Abbott for Coalition Premier Denis Napthine’s defeat.

    During final discussions on the 9NEWS election panel, Mr Oakes said “federal issues, federal personalities were a factor” and that “Tony Abbott and his government were a millstone around Denis Napthine’s neck”.

    “Victorian Liberals say it privately, they’re furious about the hug, when Tony Abbott hugged Denis Napthine he earned the enmity of virtually the entire state Liberal party,” he said.

    http://www.news.com.au/national/victorian-election-daniel-andrews-and-labor-win-victorian-state-election/story-fncynjr2-1227139023353

  86. Blanik

    What a wonderful day. And my vote hasn’t even been counted yet.

  87. John Fraser

    <

    @Blanik

    Yes … yes and yes.

    Almost 1 million postal votes …. apparently for John Setka and the CFMEU … still to be counted

  88. Erotic Moustache

    Rob031,

    If I’ve got it right you’re annoyed that there is no definitive way of ascertaining how much of the vote to the ALP was for them and their policies and how much was a negative ‘signal’ to the federal Abbott Government. I think you also think that if you are voting in a state election it’s best to stick to state government stuff. Have I got these things correct?

    That’s a touch simplistic, but for the sake of discussion, it’s about right. My issue is with the sanity of protest voting. I think it’s a moronic thing to do and can be symptomatic of a dangerous form of political ignorance (obviously that latter observation doesn’t apply to persons at this site). However, I’m open to having my opinion on that changed by cogent argument. Accusations of being some sort of Tory sycophant on the basis of having expressed a negative opinion on something doesn’t constitute an argument, as you would appreciate.

    What disposition do you think we would have had in the case of a conservative commentator advocating protest votes against Gillard in state elections? I feel that’s the real test. I’m pretty sure it actually happened.

    I also appreciate voting along ideological lines regardless of the specific issues that might face an electorate and have no problem with that. I predominately vote ideologically myself. But that’s not the same thing as issuing a protest against a federal parliament in a state election. I cannot, for the life of me, see how any reasonable person could think it a meaningful thing to do, especially given the fact that no-one knows why you vote the way you do and the ease with which, and inevitability of any federal government denying a political connection between them and any state result.

    Yes, I get that folk are really aggrieved by this federal government and I totally understand why, but allowing those feelings to divorce ourselves from reality is not a sensible thing to do, in my judgement.

    Perhaps you can, from now on, contribute in a similar vein as that would be most welcome.

    I will contribute as my conscience demands. I don’t do group-think. I get what you said about the contributors here and have no general disagreement with what you said. I know they care. I do too, but it’s also true that passion can sometimes mess with a person’s rational engagement with an issue and I always find that disconcerting.

    Thanks for the polite and considered reply.

  89. John Fraser

    <

    A "contribution" from someone who thinks that people who don't vote the way he says are "morons".

    A Liberal who relishes every utterance of Abbott and tries by not so subtle means.

    In exactly the same way that Abbott Abbott said Victorians would not get the $3 billion for East West Link if they didn't vote Liberal.

    Give it up "Miniscule Erotic Moustache" your a pathetic Tea Party type apologist.

    Thanks for the bullshit …. I certainly don't appreciate it.

    When I am celebrating a significant victory over Abbott Abbott.

  90. Erotic Moustache

    Hello again, John,

    Answer me this: had Alan Jones advocated that electors in NSW lodged a protest vote against Gillard’s Government in that State election (for all I know he actually did), what would you have said about it? Please answer honestly.

    Oh, and do you think people who would vote for Abbott are morons?

  91. John Fraser

    <

    @Miniscule Erotic Moustache

    Giving a rats arse about Jones would be like saying I had read anything that Bolt wrote.

    People who vote for the moron Abbott are getting everything they deserve.

    And the Gina Rinehart's of Australia are getting more than they deserve.

    End of conversation "moron".

    Got too much celebrating to do …… unlike you I know how to enjoy the moment.

  92. Erotic Moustache

    John,

    I fully expected you to dodge the questions, so way to go on being predictable. Enjoy the celebrations. Hopefully the result will make changes to the GST less likely.

  93. John Fraser

    <

    MEM

    Half wit.

    Your trolling is tiresome.

  94. Erotic Moustache

    Oh, hello again, John,

    So, that’s your idea of “end of conversation”? You’re funny. You should tour.

  95. Möbius Ecko

    Can you two either kiss and make up or go away for a bit to cool down?

    You’re both sounding like Liberal commentators at the moment.

  96. Erotic Moustache

    I don’t think John would want to kiss and make up, given the places my Mo has been. 😉

  97. Lee

    “Lastly, it makes sense for the foreign minister to use the subject of yellow-cake peddling and domestic nuclear use as a distracting point and shout topic.
    As a former filibuster lawyer representing asbestos merchants, defending the practice of dealing in poisonous death is bread and butter to Julie Bishop.”

    Bwahaha! The real reason Bishop doesn’t have any young is because she has eaten them.

  98. revolutionarycitizen

    Did Julia Gillard or Kevin Rudd feel courageous enough to admit they were responsible for the historic losses in NSW and QLD? Or everywhere else they got trounced during their horrible experiment we were all forced to live through?

    The left really does write some infantile nonsense these days.

    This electoral win has more to do with the new electoral boundaries than it does Tony Abbott, in-fact it has a lot more to do with changing demographics in Victoria than it does Tony Abbott.

    It says a lot more about how unpopular the ALP were in Victoria to lose to the Liberals in the first instance than it does about Tony Abbott.

  99. paul walter

    oh-oh, is my last wedged in the system?

  100. iggy648

    So at exit polls 46% quoted federal issues as influencing their vote? Great to see that Andrew Robb has his head stuck firmly up his fundamental, because this means the drongos will learn nothing from the result!

  101. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Queensland had a woman (Anna Bligh) as Premier.

    So the usual sexism and misoginistic behaviour that is so rampant in the LNP applied at the last election.

    And then there is the fact the Murdoch almost entirely controls the print media in Queensland.

    No need to die wondering how that applied …. just Google Operation Weeting.

    And lets not forget the “debt debt” mantra in lockstep with Abbott Abbott.

  102. paul walter

    Ok..What I think people have missed is:

    The sheer monumental arrogance and sinister nature of Abbott’s refusal to help fund more efficient infrastructure at half the price by state governments on the basis that it is not privately initiated infrastructure.

    With public transport there are $billions involved and also environmental and efficiency issues with the private plan, favoured by the Business Council, but do these people really care if infrastructure works for the community, once they have their money?

    Do I catch the foetid waft of FTA’s, or is it just the usual neolib dogma and alibiing for pilfer with dumb-down Tony’s coercive dictatorship?

  103. Matters Not

    electoral win has more to do with the new electoral boundaries

    Wrong! The new electoral boundaries favoured the LNP.

    So one can truthfully say that Labor won despite the new boundaries. Somewhat of a ‘revolution’ wasn’t it?

    Newspoll, Fairfax-Ipsos and ReachTEL: 52-48 to Labor in Victoria

  104. John Fraser

    <

    @Matters Not

    Yes !

    And look at what is described as the “sand belt seats” …. all of them went Liberal at the last election.

    And this time they all went Labor.

  105. Erotic Moustache

    Political pundits writing for The Australian were predicting a Labor win in Victoria as far back as June. Electoral boundaries? I don’t think so.

  106. Kaye Lee

    Buying into the state/federal argument….

    As Tony has been at pains to point out, he cannot raise the regressive GST without the agreement of all states so voting in a Labor government in the states makes that a bit harder. There is also the public transport vs roads argument. I don’t think Abbott has the right to dictate what infrastructure will be built – it is a state issue but with co-funding from the federal government. There are these sort of overlaps where federal policies are relevant to state voting.

  107. Lois Lane

    Australians are not fond of being lied to and this is now reflected at State level with some wonderful results and the counting if not yet over. The Foreign Minister seems to be the only capable minister doing her job and as such perhaps she should replace Murdoch’s puppet asap. Hockey, Turnbull and Pyne should also walk the plank!

  108. revolutionarycitizen

    What rot John, Anna Bligh was the first woman to ever be elected in her own right to Premier in Australia, which just goes to show you how unenlightened the rest of Australia happens to be. It also shows how little you know about Queensland. Anna Bligh also lead the ALP to the worst election loss in Queensland history, on the back of just how incredibly toxic the Federal Government was at the time. Same in NSW where the Liberal Party took victory with a record swing. Only South Australia would remain as the lone ALP hold-out, so should Gillard and Rudd be courageous and admit they were to blame? Or should we all just quietly remember them both as the two worst Prime Ministers we’ve ever had, given that Tony Abbott is still able to get more primary votes than they did, given Rudd’s worst ALP primary vote result in a century…

    Abbott has a long way to go before he’s as toxic and unpopular as those two darlings of the left…

  109. Kaye Lee

    Reading through rc’s open letter, I find myself in agreement with some of what he says.

    “Sir, I implore you on behalf of a great many Australians to do one thing, to make one simple gesture, and that is, stop. The loathing of Tony Abbott will never be over-come.

    Mr Prime Minister you must understand that you are alone. Prime Minister you stand alone against public institutions such as the HRC, you stand alone against the education institutions.

    [You] will, given the opportunity, bring about a new Australia, one free of liberty, one rife with social division and perpetual class warfare, an Australia where government becomes the arbiter of everything, the provider of everything, the doers of nothing and the consumers of all.

    Mr Prime Minister you need to accept that often silence is golden. The first step is to stop giving our common enemy ammunition.” (Is this a reference to his arming the corrupt Sri Lankan government and then handing children over to them to be immediately arrested? Or is it a reference to our air drops of weapons that ended up in the hands of Islamic State fighters? Or does he mean fossil fuel subsidies to polluters who are killing our planet? Or is it an admission that every time Tony opens his mouth he says something unbelievably stupid?)

  110. revolutionarycitizen

    Kaye, to pick through some of your more glaringly obvious mistakes…

    Firstly, there was never any intention by our government to have anything air-dropped to ISIS/ISIL (organisations who the left have been most vocal about supporting Australian Muslims having the right to leave to join and then return to Australia without penalty). I suggest you consider that dropping anything from an aircraft is not always as simple as it looks. Secondly, only one person on the most recent vessel that was intercepted was shown to be a refugee, and will be held in detention, the rest were sent home to apply for legal visas and wait like the many thousands of Sri Lankans trying to get to Australia the legitimate way are forced to. We can not fall into the trap of enabling law breaking in foreign countries because we don’t happen to like the law. Thirdly, we’ve been over the DFER before, The Department of Treasury is clear on it not being a subsidy, and even the exploration allowance is nothing compared to the immense subsidies now being paid to “green energy” in Australia.

    Finally, if you think socialism works, perhaps live in Europe where they already have it, or just have a look at just how well the very same policies that the left here advocate for have turned out for them.

  111. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Funny that …… I just saw and spoke to Anna Bligh a week ago and she was certainly more popular than newman who was also there.

    Abbott Abbott has gone nuclear in his toxicity …… as Bishop (the younger) is now pointing out.

    Oh !

    And I also agree with Kaye Lee when she says she is in agreement with some of the "Open Letter".

    When you learn something about Queensland join up with the Miniscule Erotic Moustache and let everyone know.

    Educate the Readership of The AIMN.

    lol

  112. corvus boreus

    Thanks, Erotic Moustache.
    The link clarifies and confirms my initial impression.
    Apparently, the PM should cure his image problems by “ignoring the left”, remaining publicly silent about his legislative attention and only speaking to the friendly Murdoch press.
    Obviously not a big fan of political transparency, diversity of media opinion, nor, given his favouring of the Newscorp press, factual reporting.

  113. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Ever thought about joining Australia's SAS and getting a Diplomatic passport to go to Abbott Abbotts John Howard war part 2 in the Middle East.

    Fancy Aussie troops having to apply for a Visa to go to war.

    What will be the next stuff up from Abbott Abbott ?

  114. Kaye Lee

    If you cannot control who will get the weapons you drop out of a plane then could I suggest it is a damn stupid idea. Secondly, can you explain to me how you can assess someone’s claim for asylum in a couple of hours at sea? The “rest”, including six children, have all been arrested and incarcerated. And could I remind you that we have a duty to condemn the human rights abuses that continue in Sri Lanka. Thirdly, if you don’t want to call fossil fuel subsidies subsidies, then lets call them what they really are…..corporate welfare on steroids. I thought you guys were against giving public money to businesses, particularly businesses that are making billions already.

    Finally, I thought you said you “refuse to engage or communicate” with those on the political left. The truth is that it is the only place you will get a sensible discussion of facts which is probably why you are here 🙂

  115. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser opined:

    When you learn something about Queensland join up with the Miniscule Erotic Moustache and let everyone know.

    Dude, when are you going to quit embarrassing yourself? Do you get off on it or what?

  116. revolutionarycitizen

    John, I am sure Anna is very popular in the places you’d be likely to frequent, but in reality Newman will win the next Queensland election quite easily. The ALP will win seats, but considering they only have 7 now, that was always going to be the case. Abbott is still getting a primary vote ahead of the ALP, something Gillard and Rudd would have killed for the reverse of, well, Rudd did kill for, something like 4,000 people in-fact and a couple of Queenslanders…

    Corvus, my letter to the Prime Minister only echoes much of what exists in other public forums, that is, stop providing your enemy the ammunition it needs. There is no point he or anyone else of the non-left appearing on the ABC or in Fairfax because we already know how they’re going to be treated, and how it will be received, so they should just give it a rest, the more the non-left try to break into these institutions the more it is resisted.

    The government can quite easily print its own gazettes stating government business if transparency is your concern, but having to go to the ALP’s propaganda outlets to front the public is absurd and something the non-left should avoid doing.

  117. John Fraser

    <

    ha ha ha …. only a wanker uses dude.

    Or is it G.W.Bush.

  118. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser,

    Yeah, gotta point about “dude”. Small idiomatic lapse on my part. But, just once, can you speak to my points? I have made them, you know.

  119. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Thats not what the polling is saying.

    But as you are a Murdoch aficionado I guess you must be speaking from a lower position than I am.

    Some real clunkers coming out …. with Seney's "hundreds not billion" for Adani's rail line.

    And Larry the Health Minister being helped by Murdoch's Queensland paper "The Idiots Mail" deleting the 'waiting list to get on the waiting list" that has gone up 27% since march 2012.

    Keep the laughs coming ….. its such a marvellous weekend for progs.

    But a sad, sad, sad weekend for con deniers.

  120. John Fraser

    <

    @Miniscule Erotic Moustache (MEM)

    Thats not what you were saying about your original post last night.

    Didn't you say ……"My view is based on a principled stance."

    Don't tell me that was a lie.

    Like this one ….. ". I vote Labor and live in Qld. I know the politics of this State"

    Sad little fellow MEM.

  121. revolutionarycitizen

    John, those entering Iraq now may require a visa because they’re not going as combatants (entry of combatants being under status of forces agreement) and may be arriving as part of an entirely different program. Nothing too unusual. And, no, I won’t be volunteering, as I’d rather be hanged for treason than ever have to take orders from the likes of Bill Shorten.

    Kaye, I’d rather we didn’t air-drop weapons to anyone, we should be conscripting soldiers to fight ISIS/ISIL and the rest of the asylum these inmates crawled out of. This fighting wars as a token gesture has not only gotten some very fine Australians killed and wounded for very little, it has actually destroyed the ADF as an institution. Secondly, there exists a set of criterion for which potential refugees are bench marked against, and Sri Lankans in general don’t qualify as refugees and most Tamils no longer qualify either. Sure, there are abuses in Sri Lanka, but if we changed those criterion to suit it would potentially allow over a billion Chinese to claim refugee status here in Australia. Some win, some lose under the current system, but remember, there are still 30,000 out of the 50,000 that were allowed ashore under the previous government yet to be processed. By adding to the inflow only assures everyone waits longer.

    Lastly, the left only debate anything rationally when they all agree on the topic and get around to their Abbott666 chants…

  122. Kaye Lee

    Do you ever work with the truth rc?

    Could I point out to you that at the 2013 federal election Labor got 33.4% of the primary vote and the Liberal Party got 32.0% of the primary vote…and as you are well aware, things have only gone rapidly downhill from there. if you want to engage on this site then you need to brush up on your facts.

  123. John Fraser

    <

    @DanDark

    The camera catches the toxic smirk of Abbott Abbott.

    So reminiscent of Costello.

    No wonder Victorians loathe him.

  124. DanDark

  125. corvus boreus

    rc,
    I can handle bias in the media(I would dispute your assertion of clear and consistent ‘lefty’ bias in Faifax or the ABC) , but what I really despise is bullshit.
    A slanted viewpoint can be adjusted to, promoting falsehoods makes a source worthless.
    Newscorp papers top the ACMA lists for factual inaccuracies, both numerically and proportionally.
    This makes them either the most incompetent or dishonest of the domestic media players.
    As a wider organisation, Newscorp has an international record of of inaccuracy and falsehood, and corrupt and criminal conduct.
    Newscorp is also, in my view, the most clearly and consistently biased of all the media.
    If you think the PM should ignore the wider press and only talk to the hacks and liars, you are entitled to that viewpoint, but don’t expect me to show support for such a blatantly biased boycott.
    Ps pro-conscription, too? Wow.

  126. DanDark

    John Fraser,
    yes and yesterday proved how much he is despised and loathed in Vic
    The northern states call us Mexicans lol because we are at the bottom, but we are at the top when it comes to our contempt for Tones and the rest of his low life ministers, Morrison is the face of cruelty in this country, that rocks me to the bone, we are the most multicultural state, and the most tolerant towards Moslems and we are the largest voting state, Tony is a goner that is for sure 🙂
    Your turn will come to kick Can’t do Cambell to the kerb……….:)

  127. John Fraser

    <

    @ revolutionarycitizen

    No killing the Abbott Abbott "death cult" then.

    Gee and here was the whole world thinking what a "warrior" Abbott Abbott is ….. when really he is just a nasty toxic person.

    The ALP doesn't go for conscription so the likelihood of any Labor Prime Minister ordering you into a war that Australia should not be involved is as remote as parents throwing their children overboard.

    But you knew that didn't you …. all knowing fascist.

  128. revolutionarycitizen

    Kaye, the LNP is the Liberal Party in Queensland, meaning even on primaries the Liberal Party beat the ALP by a million plus votes, the Coalition beating the ALP by nearer two million votes. If you gave the Greens votes to the ALP it looks better, until you of-course give the 700,000+ votes Palmer got to the Coalition. Not only that, Abbott beat Rudd by a greater margin than Rudd beat Howard. So in six years the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd experiment (it wasn’t a government) took the ALP from one of its best election victories ever, to them getting their lowest primary vote in 100 years…

    Corvus, if you read my letter you’ll see that I didn’t say only talk to News Corp, I did mention here that government can print its own gazettes, it’s of little effort in that regard. You may asset that Fairfax or the ABC isn’t as prone to bias as others see it, that’s fair, it is a subjective call, people don’t think Pravda has a bias either I suppose. But for the main part the ABC has an institutional bias, and that’s fine, as long as it isn’t on the public dime. To expand, the ABC is killing Fairfax, the left won’t pay Fairfax for what it can get from the ABC for free, the left if nothing else are quite frugal with their own money, I and many other only wish they were as frugal with everyone else’s…

  129. Kaye Lee

    Without the ABC where would Gerard Henderson and Anne Henderson and Chris Berg and Tim Wilson and the rest of the IPA be given such airtime on news shows with such a devoted audience? What would Nicky Savva do on a Sunday morning? Where would Janet Albrechtsen get a tv gig? Who would listen to Rowan Deane? (Ok I have to fess up, I don’t listen to Rowan Deane even when I hear him speaking…what a moron).

  130. revolutionarycitizen

    John, your assertion that I am a fascist only proves that you along with much of the left have not a clue what fascism is, only that it sounds trendy when you hashtag it on Twitter…

  131. DanDark

    RC…..shut the door on your way out ………..thanks. 🙂

  132. revolutionarycitizen

    Kaye, who cares where they get the air time? In all likelihood those with some right-lean to them could find a slot on The Bolt Report and those on the left can get some time on The Project or whatever it is called these days. In that regard the ABC is rather irrelevant. It is however destroying the online business model of Fairfax, so maybe could keep the ABC around for a while until Fairfax is declared insolvent and we can watch them all do the walk of shame as the doors are bolted behind them…

  133. DanDark

    Kaye Lee
    I often wonder that, don’t much see them on channel nine, nor on channel seven
    I don’t even bother with insiders outsiders on Sunday morning now
    I don’t watch The drum anymore, and depending which coalition cretin is on Q&A, that’s a good one to miss these days tooooo 🙂
    Noel Perason the other week was just vomit material, my stomach can’t take the shit the minions spew forth these days…..

  134. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Here try this :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq0px38Cwo4

    about 2 minutes 35 seconds the narrator says …. "They got rid of the Trade Unions and burned books".

    What was the Abbott Abbott mantra last Wednesday and Thursday in Australia's Federal parliament ?

    Oh my dog ….. it was Trade Unions Trade Unions.

    Morrison and Abbott Abbott proud of locking up refugees and children.

    And you're in their "Team Australiar" strutting about spruiking their lies.

    Ah ! …. bugger it I will be polite.

    You’re a neo fascist.

  135. Kaye Lee

    “What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

    “This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.”

    http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

  136. revolutionarycitizen

    Fascism, or more importantly to be a fascist one must accept the supremacy of the State or wish to further the control of the state, in that regard, by passing so much legislation and drastically increasing the role of the state and its power and influence in Australia one Julia Gillard would be far more a fascist than I.

    The simplistic notion that fascists are mere ultra-nationalists who come from the right is contested among academics, however, even if you take that simple definition, that being, an ultra-nationalist government equating to fascism, then, we would see an end to immigration, multiculturalism and like in Nazi Germany an end to religion in order for national identity through the state to reign supreme.

    So, no, neither I, nor Abbott, nor virtually anyone these days is a fascist in the simple or even absolute historical context of the ideology is a fascist.

  137. Kaye Lee

    Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?

    “To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it—please try to believe me—unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

  138. corvus boreus

    rc,
    Your lack of consistancy and adherence to principles of universal standards are demonstrated by you, in one sentence, disavowing to personally enlist, stating that you would prefer execution for treason to serving under an ideology you disagree with, then espousing the virtue of conscripting others for foreign wars in the very next sentence.
    You would happily condemn others to that which you are unwilling to do yourself.
    I suspect I understand why you do not seem to value consistent truth in recount as a journalistic quality.

  139. John Fraser

    <

    It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion.
    Joseph Goebbels

    Think of the press as a great keyboard on which the government can play.
    Joseph Goebbels

    Abbott and Murdoch in lockstep with religious instruction from Pell.

    And revolutionarycitizen their local mouthpiece.

    And before anyone gets onto Godwins law …. I know exactly what it is.

    The Abbott Abbott gang have gone so far right that there is no other way to describe them

    Fascists !

  140. John Fraser

    <

    @DanDark

    Good one.

    Barny smelling the scorched earth policy that farmers are leaving him as he tries to get the Leadership of the Nats.

  141. revolutionarycitizen

    “It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion. Joseph Goebbels” Especially over the ABC where they employ a single nominal conservative for one radio show a week… (for one hour on a Monday)

    “Abbott and Murdoch in lockstep with religious instruction from Pell.” Except for the pesky fact that Kevin Rudd went to church (and still does) more than Abbott does, and made a point of hosting post-church interviews, and Julia Gillard, the lesbian atheist who voted against same-sex-marriage because the Catholic Faction (the only truly religious faction of any major political party in Australia) of the ALP told her to…

  142. revolutionarycitizen

    No inconsistency Corvus, I fully support the eradication of ISIS/ISIL by any means, even conscription, which would include me. But seeing as the left are completely sub servant to people who happen to share the same religion as ISIS/ISIL because they control key Western Sydney electorates and some more marginal Victorian ones, I need not fear ever having to be conscripted by the likes of Bill Shorten…

  143. Kaye Lee

    Forget politics, forget the economy….there are some unarguable truths.

    It is indefensible to lock up children indefinitely because their parents have sought asylum. It is unconscionable to hand them over to the military forces of the country from which they fled when you know they will be arrested and incarcerated. To do it for political reasons is criminal.

    Refusing to participate in global action on climate change is madness. It is the action of selfish little pissants who are incapable of “thinking 16 years on”.

    Cutting funding to health, education, and research is, once again, not giving a stuff about future productivity and innovation. They just made redundant a CSIRO professor who was in line for a Nobel Prize for his work on polymers.

    And the death of world class NBN is unbelievably short-sighted. We all know Tony employs people to use computers for him, and that he thinks the rest of us just use them for games and downloading videos. he seems incapable of understanding the enormous benefits to business, education, tourism, health, agriculture, employment, decentralisation…everything. But we aren’t looking 16 years ahead.

    Tony loves to make the running of the country analogous to running a household. A household that is only planning for tomorrow is struggling.

  144. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Don't let facts get in your way of parroting the fascist line about the ABC.

    Pell ….. take your pick of these :

    http://www.smh.com.au/national/royal-commission-child-abuse

    Perhaps you will want to go with the one where Pell looks after Ridsdale.

    Here's one of Abbott Abbotts litany :

    http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-national/abbott-insisted-on-nestor-reference-20130217-2eksx.html

    By the way Abbott Abbotts sister is a Lesbian so you had better watch it … and so where is your proof for that allegation ?

    Don't tell me …. it was in a notebook that got lost or burnt in a fire.

    People might start thinking of you as Kathy Jackson.

    You remember her ….. Abbott Abbott described her as … “a lion of the Union movement” …. sad that she appears to have stolen about $1.3 million.

    Makes Craig Thompson look like a choir boy taking 2 wafers instead of one.

  145. revolutionarycitizen

    Kaye,

    Firstly, the number of children in detention has steadily decreased under this government, where-as it was going up under the previous. We do no make the laws in Sri Lanka nor are we obliged to enforce them or encourage or participate in anyone breaking them. At present very few people in Sri Lanka are determined to be refugees, simply accepting them as refugees because it is against the law in Sri Lanka to leave the country without permission would only encourage more people to do so, and get more people killed, as we saw over the last six years.

    Secondly, Obama can’t legislate any action on Climate Change, and the agreement with China sees China peaking out-put in 16 years, so China increasing CO2 emissions for another 16 years is somehow them taking the lead? Sorry to break it to you and the rest of the left but you’ve all been conned. China is likely to increase its emissions in the next 16 years to such extent that any cut from there would be pointless gesturing, they’re still today and plan to well into the future building a coal fired power station every single week.

    Except there is no cuts being made, Abbott is spending 25% of GDP compared to that profligate spending Howard who was spending at only 21% of GDP, in-fact the biggest cut being made was having growth in spending going from 9% year on year after three years come down to 6% growth year on year when it came to health and education. I think it only prudent of the left to actually read a budget before claiming to know what cuts where in it, even the ABC’s fact checker called those supposed cuts a nonsense.

    The ALP only funded less than half of the NBN and was even on modest estimates years behind schedule and in all likelihoods would never have been completed. You should consider yourself luck it will now be completed by the time our grandchildren retire. Also, as an NBN customer I can tell you that having 100mbs speed this end doesn’t save you from slow server or internet speed at the other end, so unless the entire world decides to build a FTTH network the “miracle of fibre” is as much bullshit as anything else.

  146. mars08

    @Kaye Lee…. we’ve already allowed ourselves been taken too far down a dark and treacherous road…

    “And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed.

    Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

  147. revolutionarycitizen

    John, Julia Gillard refers to herself as a lesbian in her own freely available student election material from her younger days. It’s not a national secret, try google.com once in a while.

    Williamson was the ALP President… and look what happened to him! Your “they’re bad too” is a nonsense that will get you nowhere because we all know the depths of depravity has had within its ranks…

  148. corvus boreus

    rc,
    You respond with unsubstantiated assertions and generalisations as counterattack(the ABC IS TOO biased!), but avoid addressing many criticisms of your own viewpoint(no mention of the abysmal record of Newscorp when it comes to factuality or bias).
    You cannot even see the dichotomy of expressing support for general conscription juxtaposed with stating a personal intention to ‘conscientiously’ object on political grounds.
    ‘Lesbian’ atheist?
    Not a fascist by definition, but I do see enough evidence of political extremism, personal hypocrisy and possible bigotry to quantify the value of your input.
    I am done with you.

  149. John Fraser

    <

    Oh ! ……….. Hallelujah !

    This extreme right wing christian government …" the number of children in detention has steadily decreased under this government"

    And thats what this denial spokesperson is proud of.

    Children locked up in detention centres behind razor wire …. innocent of any crime.

    And Morrison is currently taking Court action against a baby who was born in Brisbane's Mater hospital …. in an attempt to deny a baby Australian citizenship …. a baby ! …. born in Australia.

    Sweet cheesus you must be so proud of your Fuhrer and his gang.

    Moved over to economics now I see …. try 201 days since Hockey presented his stinkin Budget to the Australian public.

    You can easily see some of that in the pyrrhic remains of yesterdays Victorian election.

  150. revolutionarycitizen

    Corvus, not once here or anywhere else for that matter have I suggested or alluded to the idea that anyone read any Murdoch publication, I don’t as a personal choice. The ABC is too biased, it has one single conservative host in that rampaging voice of the right Amanda Vanstone who gets a one hour Radio National slot a week. That’s not just my opinion, that is just the way it is, if the ABC were a private firm I wouldn’t care, but they are a public firm using public money to agenda peddle, and we should all care and disapprove of that. And we should also disapprove greatly of the corrupt dealings between the ABC and the ALP that saw the ABC keep the Australia Network even after failing the tender process, twice.

    Juilia Gillard is a self-described lesbian and atheist, not that either matter to me, the were here words to self-identify with, her performance as Prime Minister and how she got there was where the story was and where most people decided they didn’t like her.

    Bigotry is only the belief that one’s ideals are superior than an others, thus refusing to rationally accept the views of others. Maybe you should look that up in the dictionary before making a hypocrite of yourself…

  151. Michael Taylor

    Kaye,

    Firstly, the number of children in detention has steadily decreased under this government, where-as it was going up under the previous.

    RC, I think you’ll find that Kaye – along with most people here – would rather see NO children in detention, and were critical of the previous government for the same thing.

  152. Michael Taylor

    Juilia Gillard is a self-described lesbian

    And where is your evidence?

  153. revolutionarycitizen

    Kaye, under Australia law the children born to tourists or 457 visa holders aren’t considered Australians either, citizenship is not given to any child who isn’t born to parents who are citizens of Australia, in the same way being born in the US of A, Russia, China, India, France or anywhere else doesn’t automatically make you a citizen if the parents aren’t citizens.

    So the government is doing its job in applying the law, a law that prevents people using children as a means of gaining citizenship when they would other-wise not be entitled.

    As for detention, there’d be not a soul in detention had Kevin Rudd not decided to import voters for marginal seats. Send all future complaints to him.

    Almost all of the budget has passed both houses with not much hassle, only largely coincidental stuff sits in the senate, like the revenue neutral co-payment, and the changes to the RET which aren’t funding matters anyway, plus it will save plenty over forward estimates because of falling immigration costs to off-set any deals it makes anyway. Really, Bill Shorten rolled over and played puppy…

  154. revolutionarycitizen

    MT, and once Operation Sovereign Borders concludes there won’t be any children in detention and I am sure not one thank you note will be sent to Mr Morrison for fixing Kevin Rudd’s lethal border protection failures by anyone on the left. Why? Because in large they don’t care a hoot for the children, only for battering their enemies with the “children behind razor wire” nonsense, which was Keating’s idea in the first place…

    Again, it is in her own election material, it isn’t a secret, though the chatter that she is once more engaged in a romantic living arrangement with another woman still remains chatter, because no-one really cares. Fact is, her dalliance with women is not a secret, nor has it ever been, same as her atheism, she’s never hidden these things. Maybe people on the left should perhaps do a quick background check on the saints they canonize…

  155. Michael Taylor

    Maybe people on the left should perhaps do a quick background check

    You made the claim here – you provide the evidence.

  156. Erotic Moustache

    John Fraser,

    You are really are a piece of work, aren’t you. I will not be intimidated my dipshits like you. I made a candid point about protest voting; I do not resile from my point or the candour with which I expressed it. Candour of expression seems to be the mode du jour here so I can only suspect a double standard on your part. It was a non-partisan political observation. i.e. in simple terms so you can understand – I hold that view about voting dynamics whatever the side of politics. It is an “in principle” view.

    If you disagree I’m open to hearing why, but you seem determined to be a dick.

  157. John Fraser

    <

    @MEM

    Thanks I really appreciate your admiration of me.

    If you require a "dick" why don't you see a reconstructive specialist.

    See if Abbott Abbotts nuts are there while you are at it.

    Appears all of them copped a kicking by the Victorian electorate.

    By the way ….. don't forget the …."I vote Labor" part of your comment, that will always be funny.

  158. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Check into a hospital immediately, your meds aren't working and you're hallucinating.

    Mind you, you do have the audiences attention and in between laughing they are asking for more.

    But do consider the hospital suggestion because unlike you, we here at The AIMN consider no man to be an island … etc. by John Donne.

  159. Bacchus

    And where is your evidence?

    This RWNJ make it up as he goes along Michael. 🙄

    Howard who was spending at only 21% of GDP

    Howard government spending averaged 24.1% with a low of 23.1 in the 2007-08 budget.

    Claiming that the Queensland and NSW Labor governments lost because of Rudd/Gillard shows an appalling lack of knowledge of the state of political play in those states at the time – Qld had the Bligh government’s asset sales and NSW Labor had been toxic for years – the only reason the Liberals hadn’t managed a win there previously is because they were perceived as worse.

    Bottom line – take whatever this nutter says with a tonne of salt.

  160. Erotic Moustache

    I’m curious as to why no-one here says anything to John Fraser about his behavior. You get he’s a dipshit, right?

  161. John Fraser

    <

    @MEM

    To date people here have only had something to say about your comment.

    Remember this ……. "My view is based on a principled stance"

    Surely you're not now asking those whom you called "morons" to come to your rescue ?

    Stick with your principles and stop crying like "a girly man".

  162. Möbius Ecko

    Shorter revolutionarycitizen.

    Quick look over there at Labor, anywhere but at this woeful failing government.

  163. John Fraser

    <

    Looks like MEM has just received the news of the latest Reachtel poll in relation to newman LNP here in Qld.

    Labor is ….. still …. leading.

    After "we are listening" newman and "boring newman" we now have the latest campaign strategy from the newman LNP …. "we are going to keep going with our Reforms".

    Brillant …. you couldn't pay a spin merchant enough money to write this shit for newman to parrot.

    Queenslanders have had a total gutfull of the newman LNP 'reforms" …. and they are promising more !

    No wonder MEM feels the urge to call for help.

  164. DanDark

    I wonder how much Tones is paying Citizen to deflect the fallout from Vics election
    The old look over there at the neighbours while their own chook shed in the backyard is burning to the ground
    where’s Fireman Tones when you need him…..oh ” witness protection ” that’s where he is,
    For a bloke with such a big offensive gob who takes any chance to insult everyone he can whenever he can
    He is awfully quiet today, but his paid trolls are out in force to defend the useless Tones, what’s new 🙂

  165. paul walter

    The most potent of quotes from Mars 08 so contrasts and highlights the sad level of demented gibber coming from reactionarycitizen and its vile silliness. One person thinks, the other drools..

  166. Michael Taylor

    Bacchus, he probably read it on something like the Pickering blog. 😉

  167. stephentardrew

    Erotic Moustache: We just go with the flow. We all have choices and I have made mine Sale vie.

    Hint: Try not to be the school madam.

  168. John Fraser

    <

    @stephentardrew

    Classic.

    The rich people in the front stalls are rattling their jewelry…… John Lennon.

    ! minute in :

  169. stephentardrew

    Hey Johno such memories. Saw them live in Adelaide. One noisy bloody concert but great fun.

  170. revolutionarycitizen

    Dan, why would there be any fallout from Victorian Labor managing a narrow win in a state where Labor has its strongest voter base? The fact that Labor had to fight just to get that and will still need the Greens to pass legislation is damning. The fact Andrews didn’t manage to thump the Coalition into submission in Labor’s heartland says more about how little Andrews is liked and how far the Labor Party needs to go before it regains its former glory.

    No surprises that Tasmania will return to its ALP/Greens Coalition roots next election so it can continue its slide into bankruptcy without further delay. SA will stay solidly ALP and remain Australia’s worst performing state. Queensland will be close, maybe not so close when Queensland gets to finally see who the ALP fronts as candidates, given that it only has 7 sitting members it currently creates a very small target to aim at. If Clive Palmer’s dalliance into politics fizzles as is predicted many of those voters are likely to drift back to the Coalition making for a better contest, especially in WA and federally. Which I predict will be a great close contest once Bill Shorten is removed as ALP leader sometime next year.

    Mobius, Tony Abbott is highly likely to lead the Coalition to a narrow victory either late 2016 or mid 2017 depending on how unemployment is tracking, or if he can pass significant tax cuts before then. Once people realise that the sky hasn’t fallen in after the next budget is passed the polls will be telling more for Mr Shorten rather than Mr Abbott.

    Bacchus, and we should ignore the woeful do nothing Napthine government and the Shaw debacle in order to blame Tony Abbott for Victoria, the ALP’s strongest state returning to the ALP? What complete nonsense, the federal ALP disaster destroyed any chance of the Queensland ALP coming even close to even contesting the state election and was responsible for the ALP brand being so toxic it limited Anna Bligh’s party to a mere 7 seats in Queensland.

  171. Lee

    I’ll have what he’s having.

  172. Bacchus

    This nutter is a history revisionist too! Ms Bligh even had Qld unions campaigning against her government! And by any account by a rational person, the Gillard government was one of the most productive and positive governments we’ve seen in decades. Perfect? Of course not, but the length of the straight ahead of what we’re lumbered with now. A disaster is what we’re facing now.

    Oh and btw, there are nine sitting Labor MPs in Qld.

    Step one – stop reading Pickering, Michael Smith and other such discredited web sites.
    Step two – keep BOTH hands above the table when posting here – you make everyone feel dirty just reading your crap 😀

  173. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    Looks like you have taken my advice and taken your meds and are now over your hallucinations ?

    And are you using Tarot Cards or have you got a Ouija board and are conversing with Ming the merciless ?

    Keep the laughs coming …. nothing much on tv.

  174. Bacchus

    Still making $#!t up!

    Tony Abbott is highly likely to lead the Coalition to a narrow victory either late 2016 or mid 2017

    The next federal election must be held on or before 14 January 2017.

    Facts seem to be an optional extra with the nutter 🙄

  175. Bacchus

    Sorry Lee – I’d feel as dirty as if I clicked on a Bolt link or Pickering or…

  176. revolutionarycitizen

    Bacchus, if Andrews squeaking home in Victoria is some how a raised middle finger to Abbott, then what would you call the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd experiment losing all but one state in 6 years? And two of those states by record margins? Honestly, you’re the revisionist, Gillard was almost universally unpopular, she couldn’t even get love from her own party and her primary vote and approval rating lagged somewhere between ebola and the plague. It took Kevin Rudd to get the ALP up to its worst primary vote in a century, those numbers don’t lie and no matter how much spin you and the left put on it, her government stank and its only saving grace being that Whitlam got to die without being our worst ever PM, Gillard having taken one for the team.

    Having ten straight record deficits under Swan/Bowen would have been a real disaster, with their inability to count the AUD$1Trillion debt mark would have come and gone a whole lot quicker than people imagine.

  177. John Fraser

    <

    Gee ! …. I could get disappointed if revolutionarycitizen is ignoring me.

    And to think he's gone back to his economics dribble with Hockeys 201 day old Budget stinkin up the place.

    C'mon revolutionarycitizen be my BFF.

    Whoops !…. there's another one of those "rhetorical flourishes".

    That bloody Thompson and his canoes is catching.

  178. revolutionarycitizen

    Bacchus, I used a general date, so what? It just makes it easier, it’ll be after the budget is passed, not before, between finals football and Christmas, closer to Christmas to keep the voters distracted. And it won’t be Abbott v Shorten.

  179. DanDark

    Citizen I couldnt give a rats arse about what YOU think, I have bigger fish to fry lol 🙂
    But you are entertaining the masses on AIMN so don’t let me stop you, go ahead keep the audience laughing LOL
    A message to Phony Tony from Victoria……..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_py6WbMV1k

  180. revolutionarycitizen

    Sorry John, much of the Budget has already been passed, the spending bills largely anyway, it appears you man Shorten just doesn’t have the spine for it all. Whilst all of you have been distracted over $7 everything else sailed through, and whilst the left were busy denying every woman in the country the exact same maternity leave entitlements as those enjoyed at the ABC, in the public service, MPs and political party staff the ALP quietly went about its business ensuring other vital bills were also passed.

    And I stand by Thompson’s statement about the ASC, I’d go further than he did, but not in polite company…

  181. revolutionarycitizen

    Dan, regardless of what you may think about Tony Abbott, just remember this, he rose through life to the highest office in the land, he’ll accomplish more tomorrow than you will your entire life, and all you can do is sit at your computer and piss and moan about it. Just who do you think is winning?

  182. DanDark

    Well we can take a stab at who will be opposing Bill Shorten because we all know it wont be Toxic Tony, maybe Asbestos Bishop, or geee who else hasn’t made a total tool of themselves in the LNP,,, nup cant think of one that hasn’t shot themselves in the foot 🙂

  183. revolutionarycitizen

    Poor Dan, Mr Shorten won’t be leading the ALP that much longer, Tanya has ambition and the right gender to appease the aggrieved factions still smarting over what happened to Saint Gillard.

  184. DanDark

    Lol Citizen you are a comedian, “rise” , Tones cant rise out of his own shit he is sitting in…. at his own making,
    this will be my last comment to you Citizen, I don’t handle fools like you well, I will leave it up to John F
    He has eaten you alive all day, but you come back for more…. tooo funny LOL

  185. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    "Much of the Budgets been passed" ….. that not what the Abbott Abbott stuck pig is screaming.

    As usual I always look for the silver lining ……. and I am so pleased you think Shorten is not being an arsehole like Dr. No Abbott Abbott was when he was LOTO.

    revolutionarycitizen keep up the praise of the ALP and even I might vote for them.

  186. DanDark

    Laura Tingle said”20 to 30 billion of savings in the budget are going nowhere, they havnt been passed, and it dosn’t look like they will be passed” and she said, “at a time when they should be preparing for next years budget they still havnt got this budget through” its a shamozzle alright John F……
    the Libs have lost the paddle, the canoe and are lost in the wilderness….:) what a good year the Libs have had…… Not…

  187. revolutionarycitizen

    Dan, one day, post-puberty, you’ll realise there are winners and losers, and Tony Abbott is a winner, you on the other hand, will still be here moaning about it at AIMN…

    John, you and I go way back, and I often enjoy your retorts, but not even I would wish upon you the misfortune of voting for the ALP! Tony desperately wants his co-payment passed (I don’t know why, it is revenue neutral and makes no difference to the budget outcome what-so-ever, it makes less sense than PPL, in-fact PPL is a real costed and funded policy that in time people would appreciate!) and he wants changes to the RET, again, I don’t know why because what he is asking for is a minor re-adjustment to account for declining power use which would make even on modest estimates any savings to business he is after quite modest, if any. Essentially he has decided to pick a fight he doesn’t need to have over items that aren’t really important in order to distract the public away from the victory he had over Shorten getting everything else passed.

    I will give you and the left one thing, Credlin needs to go, along with a few other key staff…

  188. revolutionarycitizen

    These are the 90+ bills before the Senate, very few budget items, plenty of nonsense from the Greens though!

    http://www.aph.gov.au/Parliamentary_Business/Bills_Legislation/Bills_before_the_Senate?page=1&drt=2&drv=7&drvH=7&pnu=44&pnuH=44&f=12%2f11%2f2013&to=30%2f11%2f2014&ps=10&ito=1&q=&bs=1&pbh=1&bhor=1&pmb=1&g=1&st=2

    $20-$30Billion in saving still awaiting passage, I don’t see it, not unless those Uni Students come through with some major coin!

  189. John Fraser

    <

    @revolutionarycitizen

    God you're stupid.

    My vote goes to the ALP as a secondary count.

    Doubly stupid … because you use this ad nauseum …. "that in time people would appreciate" …. if youre going to make up shit try to be a bit more original from time to time.

    Now your saying Abbott Abbott wants changes to RET …… unbelievable !

    You really don't have any idea what you post.

    If your getting paid for this do the honourable thing and give the money back to your employer.

    Then give up politics and join a Buddhist retreat.

    Or go back to the Ouija Board …. you had a tiny bit of success there.

  190. John Fraser

    <

    @ revolutionarycitizen

    You really are tedious company.

    I'm going to do some political activist activities now.

    See if you can find me.

  191. revolutionarycitizen

    Bu it still goes to the ALP doesn’t it John? Because we all know that you’d rather insert a brown snake into your eye socket than vote for the Liberal Party.

    So, you missed the public fight over the proposed changes to the RET? That must be some rock you reside under! I would have thought you’d be the one to keep themselves better informed…

    Poor Dan, when Putin left the G20 he actually gave Abbott what in Russian parlance is quite an endorsement, and Putin certainly responded far more warmly to Abbott than he did to Cameron, whom Putin apparently gave quite a stern talking too. Maybe you should leave the conversation to the adults in future!

  192. stephentardrew

    Thick.

  193. stephentardrew

    Seems to me that only immature developmentally delayed conservatives think anybody but they are adults.

    News for you mate.

    Abbott’s lying and dystopian future is the last thing you would expect form a mature and ethical adult or anyone who supports this fool.

    You just don’t know an own goal when you see it do you Backwardcitizen?

    Hey comrade join the collective.

  194. DanDark

    Citizen….shut the door behind you as you leave, you are an idiot on a grand scale, typical Liarbil just full of shit and prepared to defend a liar and fraud, watch the stairs as you leave, they can be dangerous and could cause you an injury 🙂
    ..winners are Grinners and Victoria is a winner this weekend, and Tones the biggest loser, as the media keeps reminding us now and how Tones made it hard for Naptime to win,,,it was the ” hug ” according to Laurie Oaks last night,,,, how long can you keep a turd afloat, ask Jones And Bolt, not very long by the looks of it,,,,,Lol

  195. revolutionarycitizen

    Stephen, dystopian you say? Why not enlighten us all on how you think the Prime Minister sees the future and how you believe things will turn out? I’ve got some time to kill.

    As for ethics, I’d never take ethics lessons from anyone of the left or believes in killing babies.

  196. revolutionarycitizen

    I posted the Parliament House information about every single one of the 90+ bills before the senate, I even went through the task of seeing which were budget related, and unfortunately for you, virtually none were. And further to your lack of fortune it is quite apparent by your failed use of wit and comedic dangerous stairs shtick that indeed intellectual if not actual puberty may be some time off for you.

    You know what winning is? Leaving your enemy with as many seats as your family people mover, that’s winning. You know what is losing? Having to rely on the Greens to pass legislation in the state your party gets its strongest support. And don’t worry, Tony Abbott tonight will sleep quite soundly tonight as Prime Minister, something no ALP member will do for some years to come!

  197. stephentardrew

    I am working and my time is too precious to warrant your attention.

  198. Bacchus

    This imbecile doesn’t deserve the oxygen it’s receiving for the sole purpose of derailing the thread with its inanities. Its diversions are best ignored.

  199. revolutionarycitizen

    Stephen, you have a job? Kudos to you, hopefully not a public servant, because we’ve got way too many of those!

  200. DanDark

    Geee I would prefer Neil from a Sydney, this troll is a drag that’s for sure…
    He is the worlds greatest authority on nothing, but an expert on Abbott by the looks, geee what a loser 🙂

  201. DanDark

    Yep Bacchus, moving on, he will go away if we ignore it 🙂

  202. Matters Not

    RC, you really are naïve. And at so many levels.

    As I understand it, you wrote to the current Prime Minister and provided ‘advice’, re ‘strategy’ and the like, Hilarious.

    No doubt, given your ‘insight’, you would be aware that the chance of Abbott actually reading your ‘advice’, or ‘correspondence’, is miniscule, to say the least. Abbott is known as a ‘non reader’ writ large.

    But here’s a suggestion so that in the future you don’t become a continual butt of jokes in the PM’s Office among those whose task it is to actually read your nonsense.

    For a start, study, and actually understand the difference ‘educated’ people give to words such as ‘led’ and ‘lead’. You are sadly lacking in that area.

    Having done that, you might investigate the meanings that most people give to ‘reign’ and ‘rein’ (you apparently are the exception to the rule). Or perhaps your advice to Abbott to ‘reign’ over his party was intentional, given his known monarchical orientation.

    But I suspect not.

    As to your stated, and implied criticisms, of ‘education systems’ I can understand your frustration.

    You are a classic example of those who failed to learn.

    Care to accept responsibility?.

    Sorry to rain on your ‘tea party’.

  203. DanDark

    John F
    At first I thought it was a record of the Abbotts heart rate last night every time a Liberal seat bit the dust lol
    But the I realized it was about how much of a moran the Abbott is……thanks for the link…..

  204. Rob031

    Just come in to see the huge increase in comments. Struth. There is a new character who is taking up a lot of attention it seems. One that calls itself revolutionarycitizen.

    So, eventually I went to his own site/blog via http://revolutionarycitizen.wordpress.com/2014/11/30/an-open-letter-to-the-prime-minister/

    (I’m reminded here of Bolt’s advice to the Coalition and Abbott in particular.)

    I have no clear idea what to make of this ‘person’. In the above link he appears to have some kind of messianic complex. In some posts he seems well up on the minutia of various political things; and in others totally bat-shit crazy.

    Perhaps he’s an ‘intelligent’ silicon-based ‘life’-form, like a robot with a really sophisticated set of Artificial Intelligence instructions programmed into him. His Memory Address Register (MAR) is fine. His Stack Pointer (SP) and Instruction Register (IR) are functioning as they should. All his AND, OR, NAND, NOR and NOT gates are doing as they were designed to do. So too with his Arithmetic Logic Unit (ALU). Memory decoders, Flip Flops and Multiplexors are in tip-top shape.

    It may well be the case that we are interacting with a semi-convincingly clever computer program that has been written by some clever set of boffins employed by the LNP spin-doctor team. Why not! They trawl various blog sites and respond in a seemingly intelligent manner. The program looks through a vast database of keywords and generates a set of responses. Perhaps what is called “revolutionarycitizen’ is a vastly superior version of “Eliza”. If so, it’s all about the “Fetch – Decode – Execute” cycle.

    Sigh… I suppose, in reality, he’s just a carbon-based featherless biped. Probably one blessed with an encyclopedic memory, an ability to manipulate facts, plus a whole set of prejudices and preconceptions of which he is totally unaware. A person who, perhaps, feels it is his mission to educate all, including us and Abbott, about what he appears to believe are the insights that currently dominate his cerebral cortex.

    Ahh.. the plasticity of the brain. A remarkable phenomenon. So, revolutionarycitizen, if you are not a silicon-based robot but a carbon-based one, may I suggest that you have a chat with your friendly GP after paying your $7.00 GP fee. You’ll need to spend some multiple of $7.00 after that, depending on the number of psychiatrists you’re referred to.

  205. mars08

    The humane thing to do is to band together and find rc a manager. Obviously he’s been handling himself far too long…

  206. Kaye Lee

    At the risk of giving rc some sort of credence (which I don’t) just a couple of comments…

    He said “Your “they’re bad too” is a nonsense that will get you nowhere” and proceeded to talk incessantly about the previous government and the Greens. Why is it that Abbott supporters never want to talk about THIS government?

    “Julia Gillard refers to herself as a lesbian in her own freely available student election material from her younger days”

    Well I looked up her student election material and that is bullshit. One wonders why you would make the comment in the first place.

    SORRY TO DISAPPOINT, GILLARD WAS/IS STRAIGHT
    Those well-informed observers also tell VEXNEWS that feisty feminist Gillard might have been supportive of everyone’s equality, she didn’t “bat for the other side” whatever the insinuations of the nearly thirty-year old publication.

    http://www.vexnews.com/2010/08/wagging-tongues-julia-gillard-once-embraced-lesbian-lifestyle-as-student-leader/

    And considering rc’s disparaging comments about Labor negotiating with the Greens, I wonder how he felt when Hockey went begging to the Greens to lift the debt ceiling to $500 billion and then to remove it altogether. How does he feel about the Coalition making concessions to Clive Palmer?

  207. Möbius Ecko

    And indeed the Nationals Kaye Lee. Why are they always left out whenever any disparagement of coalitions is bought up by the right.

  208. Rod Rand

    let us all hope that Queensland show Newman the door as emphatically as the victorians have shown the Libs. Australians are showing these jackboot bullies on the extreme right that they are not welcome

  209. mars08

    Rob Rand:

    Australians are showing these jackboot bullies on the extreme right that they are not welcome

    As long as it specifically impacts on (or threatens to disadvantage) them or their families. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves and think that everyone has suddenly become all warm and fuzzy…

  210. Kaye Lee

    The groups that it hasn’t impacted or disadvantaged are getting fewer and fewer. The 1% have a loud voice but we have the numbers and there are a lot of pissed off people.

  211. randalstella

    If you voted in the State election in South Australia in protest against Abbott, and thereby voted for the Labor Party, you voted for one of the most right-wing, dirty-dealing regimes in the State’s history.
    They are so bad that members of the Liberal Party – in Opposition, where such sentiments are easier – sound like traditional Labor; defending public amenity and the common wealth against deals that are paid for and guaranteed by the taxpayer; while the public resources are thus being alienated; for private gain; for business mates in ‘confidential’ deals.
    The Liberals have joined the Greens in forcing an inquiry into fracking in the South East – against the brazen insults of a so-called Labor Government.
    The saga of ‘Part-time Pat’ is an absurdity of ultimate unaccountability. It would have toppled any regime 20 years ago, but was just treated as a curiosity,as if the worst thing was that the long-term Min. of Planning spent the end of his Parliamentary career working part time for a private law firm while getting full-time backbencher’s salary. That he was working privately to facilitate large deals for private interests was not seen as the ludicrously flagrant misuse of public office; no more for the fact that he had been Planning Minister for many years, for a Government which has shown a relish for alienating and destroying public lands and functions for private profit.

    Very fitting that a right-wing former Leader of the Liberal Opposition has left his Party to join the Labor Government. They had Pat’s old portfolio waiting for him.

  212. mars08

    @Kaye Lee… true enough. Major-General DumDum was far too eager to get his sponsor’s schemes rolled out. People started to notice.

  213. Bacchus

    Seeing as the lily-livered nutter was never prepared to back anything it had to say with evidence or facts, for the record, this is probably what he was referring to when he said, “Julia Gillard refers to herself as a lesbian in her own freely available student election material

    http://www.hoax-slayer.com/gillard-lesbian-relationship-hoax.shtml

    Note even Andrew Bolt warned against passing on the doctored version…

  214. Möbius Ecko

    And it can very well be grounds for legal action against those who make the false accusation. Just ask those successfully indicted recently for making false accusations on Facebook against a businessman.

  215. Michael Taylor

    I notice he went from “self confessed lesbian” to “chatter” about it. Seems to me he accepted chatter as the downright truth.

  216. Roswell

    It’d be interesting to see if he made those claims on his own web site. Or does he just go to other sites to make them?

  217. corvus boreus

    rc,
    I acknowledge that you did not explicitly endorse Newscorp(merely disendorsed all rival agencies), in the same way that stating that someone should refrain from eating any meat or other animal products is not an endorsement of vegetarianism(you can always starve or eat dirt).

    Your parroting of a proven fabrication published about the sexual orientation of a former PM reinforces my words about examining the credibility of your sources.

    Your ‘bigotry’ definition, whilst not strictly incorrect, is about as precise as defining mammals as ‘flesh around bones’.
    ‘The often irrational contempt or dislike of others based upon preconceptions and prejudices’ would be my amalgam of the Oxford, Webster and wiki definitions.
    A pertinent example would be arbitrarily dividing people into ‘left’ and ‘non-left’, and making sweeping statements about those on the ‘left’ being automatically unethical, of foolishly invalid opinion or “killing babies”(wtf?).
    The use of such broad derogatives, as with employment of contra terms like ‘fascist’ or ‘lib-tard’, reinforces internal prejudices and chokes off the mental faculties of rational examination of differing viewpoints.
    You show some(albeit inconsistent) mental acumen, but would have better balance of vision and comprehension had you not gouged out your own left eye.
    As for hypocrisy, I have stood in the ranks of the ADF, and think those who would lobby to send the unwilling to die in foreign wars, whilst qualifying their own willingness to serve dutifully, are utterly hypocritical.
    If you feel that a military crusade is essential, and have scryed through eldrich means that the unacceptable ‘commander’ B Shorten will not be the next PM(I am actually with you on that one), that removes your stated possible objection and there is no excuse for you not to walk the walk and enlist to fight rather than delegating the sacrifice to other souls.

  218. Möbius Ecko

    Well they didn’t hide Abbott, he came out to face 45 minutes of questions aping Gillard in what he called a stunt when she did it. He made it known in a choreographed soundbite that my the questions were coming thick and fast. Also channelling Gillard he copied her method and control in selecting journalists for a question.

    Of course he obfuscated about lying and then channelled Howard in emphatically saying the buck stops with him and he accepts the blame. Like Howard he’s doing no such thing otherwise he would have stood down or called an election.

  219. corvus boreus

    randalstella,
    Thank you for the relevant example of what you can when you purely vote with a motive of abstract punitive intent.
    It is easy to decide what you intend to vote against, but at some stage there should be a thorough examination of what you are actually voting for.

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