Who are the terrorists?
“Pregnant women will give birth to terrorists; the children when they grow up will be terrorists.” (Phalangist involved in the Sabra and Shantila massacre, when questioned by an Israeli tank crew, West Beirut. 17 September 1982. Robert Fisk; Pity the Nation, p359).
“We know, it’s not to our liking, and don’t interfere.” (Message from and Israeli army battalion commander to his men, on learning that Palestinians were being massacred. 17 September 1982. Robert Fisk; Pity the Nation, p3590.
It is hard to see any semblance of humanity in a war zone.
In the escalation of the crisis in the Middle East, the focus yesterday was on a spot on the map of Lebanon called Ain al-Hilweh. It is a refugee camp near the city of Sidon in Southern Lebanon, quite near the border with Israel. There are several refugee camps, although to call them camps makes them sound like places of transience, where people stop for a while and then move on, as refugees, the move on would hopefully be to a place of permanence. But Ain al-Hilweh has been a refugee camp since 1948 when Palestinians were expelled from Israel. The current population of Ain al Hiwel is over 70,000 Palestinian refugees but that number has grown with refugees from Syria.
Lebanon hosted many of the 750,000 Palestinians exiled during the period of the Nakbah, from 1948 as Israel consolidated its hold on the UN mandated shared Israel/Palestine.
Another such refugee camp was the Shatila refugee camp, south of Beirut which in 1982 was the site of a massacre, the slaughtering of over 4,000 men, women and children by a militia controlled by the Israeli Defence Force. The Shatila Refugee‘s current population is almost 10,000 registered Palestinian refugees and another 10,000 Syrian refugees escaping the horrors of their civil war and the devastation that ruined cities such as Aleppo, which still looks a bit like Gaza does today, essentially levelled and uninhabitable.
Since 1948, the status of Palestinian refugees in Lebanon has denied them any entitlement to citizenship under Lebanese law, effectively rendering them as stateless and as such denied the opportunity to earn a living or access to health services.
“It is a tragedy of both our people. How can I explain in my poor English? I think Arabs have the same rights as the Jews and I think it is a tragedy of history that a people are refugees make new refugees. I have nothing against Arabs… They are the same as us. I don’t know that we Jews did this tragedy – but it happened.” (Shlomo Green, Jewish refugee from the Nazis, on learning that his home in Israel was taken from a Palestinian family in 1948. Robert Fisk; Pity the Nation, P. 12).
Shlomo Green was a refugee from Romania and settled in a house taken from David Damiani, an exiled Palestinian businessman. In Robert Fisk’s book, Pity the Nation, both men are cited in the second chapter, one was a refugee, a survivor of the Holocaust who had lost many relatives at Auschwitz, the other, forced from his home and the country of his birth.
Hamas and Hezbolla are ‘terrorist’ organisations, born out of the dispossession and dehumanisation of Palestinians who have been denied basic human rights since 1948.
The family whose home was taken for Shlomo Green’s family to occupy were among the 750,000 people shunted north to Lebanon, to live in a refugee camp, seemingly for ever with no rights, no recognition, just discarded people: Crammed into the confines of a restricted area such as Shantil or Ain al-Hawel. For over 75 years, those expelled and their off spring, now four generations have been left receiving handouts through Red Cross and UNHCR for survival. A breeding ground for discontent and even, dare it be expressed, anger at the treatment meted out for being who they are, stateless people, effectively nobodies.
Is it any wonder that the discontent can lead to the occasional bit of rebellion, the occasional outburst of anger, and when religion gets involved, that the dispossession is seen through the lens of discrimination which has been a hallmark of the region since the birth of religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam? People occupying the land because God said it was theirs.
“And the Lord spake unto Moses in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying,
Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan ind into the land of Canaan;
Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you, and destroy all their pictures,and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down their high places;
And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it…
ye will not drive out the inhabitants of the land before you; then it shall come to pass, that those which ye let remain of them shall be pricks in your eyes, and thorns in your sides, and shall vex you in the land wherein ye dwell.” (The Bible, Numbers 33: 50-55).
Is it any wonder why casualties are so disproportionately high on the Palestinian side of the conflict?
Israeli excuses for the high rate of civilian deaths and injury is because Hamas and Hezbollah use the people as human shields. I guess that must be true, since humans lived in the several multi-storied apartment blocks which was demolished to assassinate the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, apparently using a US supplied ‘bunker buster’ bomb, or in targeting Hamas militants in Gaza to bomb the areas which dropped leaflets had told the people to the safe areas on the maps provided, or to bomb hospitals and schools since that is the most obvious place the ‘terrorists’ will hide.
The long long history of violence, dispossession, religion continues unabated, the rivers of blood flow endlessly and it seems that the only non terrorist is… mmmm.
Robert Fisk was a respected journalist for The Independent and various other respected newspapers and journals. He lived in Beirut until his death in October 2020.
An Israeli journalist who lives in Ramallah in the West Bank, but from1993 to 1997 lived in Gaza is Amira Hass. For over 30 years she has written for the Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz. In 1996 she wrote Drinking the sea at Gaza; Days and nights in a land under siege, and explains why she chose to live in ‘Yassir Arafat’s garbage strewn statelet’.
“In the end, my desire to live in Gaza stemmed neither from adventurism nor from insanity, but from that dread of being a bystander, from my need to understand, down to the last detail, a world that is, to the best of my political and historical comprehension, a profoundly Israeli creation. To me Gaza embodies the entire saga Israeli-Palestinian conflict, it represents the central contradiction the State of Israel – democracy for some, dispossession for others; it is our exposed nerve. I needed to know the people whose lives have been forever altered by my society and my history, whose parents and grandparents, refugees, were forced from their villages in 1948.” (Amira Hass. Drinking the sea at Gaza, P 7).
Amira Hass is the daughter of Holocaust survivors who arrived in Israel in 1948.
Yes, Shlomo Green, both Israelis and Palestinians have a right to live, and to live in peace.
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22 comments
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Terence Mills -
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leefe -
Bert -
Hazan -
Bert -
Canguro -
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GL -
Phil Pryor -
John C -
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Baby Jewels -
Terence Mills -
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Bert
Return to home pageWho are the Terrorists ? It’s a big question
A week ago Netanyahu took the stage at the UN General Assembly and quoted the Christian Bible : “there is a time for peace and there is a time for war and this is a time for war” he told the world. He then initiated the invasion of Lebanon, a sovereign country. This after targeted assassinations of Hezbollah and Hamas leaders including the killing of a Hamas leader who was a guest of the government of Iran in Teheran.
When delegates to the UN turned their backs or walked out on him he denounced the UN General Assembly as ‘swamp of antisemitic bile’ !
Are we all terrorists now ?
Appears to be the case Terrence, if you are not a Zionist, you are deemed a potential terrorist at least. 12 months into the Palestinian genocide, does anyone need to ask the question? Isn’t it obvious what the Zionists want? They want to pizz off the Islamic world, which includes all countries with a sizable Islamic population, eg. Australia? Remember, all wars are bankers wars. I wouldn’t be surprised if Christian churches this Christmas are a light to the world, in much the same way that a bushfire is a light to the hills. Australia should divorce itself from Israel until its government is held accountable for war crimes.
And now Iran has fired miissiles at Israel … fuck you, Netanyahu for making this world so much uglier and unsafe.
Hazan, we are 75 years into the Palestinian genocide.
Bert, you are right. When it comes to things political, I’m a slow learner, I never had much interest.
It took me some time to stumble over the Balfour declaration and British mandate for Palestine.
Zionists at the extreme end are terrorists.
Hazan, The important question is ‘why?’, and one part of the answer lies in the biblical quote from Numbers in the article, the other is the centuries long discrimination Jews have suffered.
I try not to take sides, instead I hope, wish for peace.
But like so many things, there are two sides to that, the optimist which hopes for peace, works for it, and the pessimist who fears that there will be no peace…. and to put a religious slant to that, ‘until the messiah comes’. ( Jews have been waiting for that a longer time than Christians for the return of Jesus, but both are prepared to kill until their particular saviour comes.)
Bert & Hazan, I refer you both back to the essay posted in Substack by Avigail Abarbanel, which I copied and pasted into an earlier post of Bert’s; [as linked], she’s a Jewish psychotherapist and I think she clearly outlines the pathology of the Jewish mindset that sits behind the current round of carnage we’re witnessing in the Middle East. It’s the post at the foot of the comments section. You might find it worth the effort to digest.
Thank you Canguro. an interesting question raised is one of identity, that the individual identity is subsumed into the national identity. The Socratic style of questioning, who am I and who will I be is far too deep for such a mindset.
As in most orthodoxies, the individual is repressed so that the orthodox becomes the identity, any one who dares to step outside that is ostracised.
Socrates was force to drink hemlock for daring to encourage young people to think for themselves, how dangerous it is to question the orthodoxy.
I guess that is why so many journalists have been targeted in Gaza, why Al Jazeera offices have been closed. Please do not let anything but ‘my’ truth be spoken.
Sigh, how very unexpected:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-02/prime-minister-anthony-albanese-sydney-palestinian-protest/104421182
Netanmurderyou? Netanupyou? Netankillyou? There is no civilised, decent end to the zionist position of being a chosen race, anointed and blessed, a special people seeking to dominate some promised land ( a heap of shitty gravel) and thus a law above law. We must be Socratic and risk elimination for truth telling, that there is no god, not out of Jerusalem, Mecca, Delhi, Rome, Beijing, the Pentagon, Trump’s arse, Canterbury Cathedral, Nowhere. The rotten old myths and lies are dangerous.
The only true terrorists are the zionist jews who stole another country from it’s people and for the last 70 odd years has been anniihalating those same people with impunity thanks to the Septic Tanks supplying them with every conceivable weapon of horror they make and giving them carte blanche to behave exactly as badly as their only sponsor in the world.
It is so tragic that nearly the whole planet is against them but because the Seppos have the strongest military and half their country is controlled by jewish money, they will continue to defy the rest of their ‘allies’ just so they don’t upset those that own half the wealth in their country. STOP PROTECTING GENOCIDAL MANIACS!
Australian ABC news has just annouced a bipartisan agreement between our government and opposition to denouce the missle attacks by Iran on israel but one year on neither of them have said any such thing about all the death, destruction and genocidal attacks by israel on it’s neighbours. How f..ked up is our government, they haven’t reached bipartisanship on anything in the last 30-40 years but both want to protect the zionist scum just like the Divided States. We are no better than them… Ashamed to be Australian.
Judging by comments on social media, large numbers are incandescent with rage at Albanese, Wong et al. He will never be forgiven and will go down on the wrong side of history. But it’s almost our entire parliament that’s supporting this brutal genocide. All we can do is vote them out, put them where they put us, as they put a target on our backs. Do not vote for the least bad, vote only for those who do not support genocide. While we still can, as we’re losing our democracy in strides, day after day.
Baby Jewels
I can’t quite see how voting out the present government in favour of an LNP government under P Dutton will assist the tragedy unfolding in the Middle East.
In recent days Australia has joined with United States, Canada, European Union, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates, the United Kingdom, Qatar, New Zealand and others for an immediate 21 day ceasefire across the Lebanon-Israel border’ to provide space for diplomacy towards the conclusion of a diplomatic settlement consistent with UNSCR 1701, and the implementation of UNSCR 2735 regarding a ceasefire in Gaza and release of hostages
The US are calling on all parties, including the Governments of Israel and Lebanon, to endorse the temporary ceasefire immediately consistent with UNSCR 1701 during this period, and to give a real chance to a diplomatic settlement.
The parties including Australia are prepared to fully support all diplomatic efforts to conclude an agreement between Lebanon and Israel within this [21 day] period, building on efforts over the last months, that ends this crisis altogether.
Resolution 1701 also provided for 15,000 UN security forces to maintain the peace between Lebanon and Israel following the complete withdrawal of Israeli troops.
So far the biggest stumbling block has been Netanyahu’s intransigence.
What exactly do you want Australia to do ?
Baby jewels, your are being illogical. As unpalatable as Albo may seem to you on this issue, Dutton mutton will be infinite worse. Voting against Albo, is by definition voting for Dutton.
The issues in the middle east will be solved by the people on the ground. No amount of advice seems to satisfy either side.
The Israelis will hang on their own petard. The foolish notion that they can buy defense indefinitely by reducing the Palestinians to rubble. They have gone down the rabbit hole and no god can help them.
I have warned for ages that assuming the other side doesn’t develop different tactics was a ride over the cliff. Peace was always going to be a cheaper alternative, but the Israeli sense of entitlement has overtaken any form of intelligent analysis.
Like no amount of destruction imposed on the Palestinians will ever buy Israel the moral high ground. No amount of destruction, apart from total annihilation, will stop the sense of dispossession Palestinians feel.
A High tech advantage is great if the expense can be sustained. Cheap Iranian missiles are stored in mass and will be used in mass. Israel will be overwhelmed with the few high tech defense missiles they have in store. From what we have seen with our own eyes, a 30% break through over 200 odd “iron dome misslies” will be useless when the number delivered is doubled. Can Israel sustain the amount it will cost in the next few weeks, let alone the next few years. Ukraine’s defense has opened pandoras box here.
Destroying Iran will only make MORE and STRONGER enemies. Sure Israeli planes can bomb the crap out of Iran, but they cant roll in the tanks…..the logistics are insurmountable. HOW does this deliver peace to Israel? Many innocent Iranians will be turned to the dark side. Its a total strategic failure.
As I already stated, peace and reconciliation with the Palestinians 50yrs ago would have saved us all a lot of grief. Israel has grown too big to turn around. Biblically, you sow what you reap. It totally pisses me off that we have allowed this BS to continue for so long.
A56, not to take away from the gist of your comments, but a laugh out loud moment… “Biblically, you sow what you reap”…. nice inversion. I see your thoughts outrun your fingers.
Canguro, its a talent to twist words around…lol. When i saw it , i thought, mmmm…… leave it. It’s funny.
Further, listening to all the experts, Iran misfired and showed their weakness. I dont see it that way, the hubris in the media is fucking scary. Again, Iranians are given no respect………..This could end very badly for everyone.
How secure are all those oil fields in Saudi arabia?
I got here late and you guys have said it all.
Bibi the ZION@ZI Butcher is leading the amoral ZION@ZI IDF in the deliberate genocide of Indigenous Palestinian mainly women & kids with the deliberate intention of displacing and dispossessing those same Palestinians so that European, Middle East and American carpet-baggers can clear away the rubble and rebuild residential housing for the benefit of fresh ZION@ZI colonist settlers escaping the Russian conscription, American chaos or European disinterest.
Regardless a vote against the Albanese LABOR government that has failed to rise up to voter expectations in too many matters, is the wrong strategy. Boofhead Duddo & cronies would be even worse …. think $us$san LeyZee, Simon Burr-under-the-saddle the LIARBRAL$ morning drone.
Andrew 56.
‘Voting against Albo is by definition voting for Dutton.’
It doesn’t matter how bad Dutton is. His disgustingness is not an excuse for endorsing the disgusting and contemptable policies of Albanese. Every vote against Albanese is an indication to him how unacceptable his political leanings are. There is no obligation to endorse Dutton while rejecting Albanese. Even an informal vote is better than a forced endorsement due to the stupid compulsory requirement to cast preferences. The call to endorse Albanese because Dutton is worse is a call to surrender to vile, evil behaviour. At least people are prepared to oppose Dutton. You would have us welcome Albanese. There is a value to negativity in matters like this.
Try voting for the Greens. Give them the fair representation in Parliament that they and their supporters deserve if you give a damn about true democracy. Just stop asking us to choose this evil we know.
Penny Wong addressed the UN General Assembly and has been loudly condemned by the coalition in particular Simon Birmingham.
What Wong was calling for was that the UN should set “a clear timeline for the international declaration of Palestinian statehood”
Wong also told the general assembly that “every country in this room” must abide by the rules of war, and Israel “must comply with the binding orders of the international court of justice”.
The ICJ had mandated Israel to end its occupation, dismantle its settlements, provide full reparations to Palestinian victims and facilitate the return of displaced people.The International Court said Israel should stop settlement activity in the occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem and end its “illegal” occupation of those areas and the Gaza Strip.
Those who say Australia should be doing more need to understand what we, and many others in the international community, are actually doing within the constraints of international diplomacy.
Given Israel is the Us’s outpost / suzerain, just like the US did with Assange – ignored its own laws, ignored the UN, and EU etc, press ganged other govts, particularly Britain and set about Assange’s elimination. So it is in these actions by Israel carrying out a proxy war for the US.
Can’t imagine who are the transnational oppressors and terrorists.
Why must we call one side of a conflict terrorists and somehow the other side as having a claim to legitimacy?
Why can we not see both Israelis and Palestinians as people.
I thought the quote from Shlomo Green in the posted article pertinent, a refugee coming to a new homeland, displacing a resident, so they became a refugee.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation because it seeks security for Palestinians. Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation because it seeks dignity for Palestinians living in refugee camps in Lebanon, since 1948.
Can we not find a place for both Israelis and Palestinians? That was the original intent of the UN, essentially a two state solution.
Can we not seek a humanitarian solution or will Isreali supporters not be satisfied until every Palestinian is dead?
Is Iran’s involvement any worse than the US and other nations supporting Israel with billions of dollars worth of bombs and armements, suchn as the bunker busting bomb used in Beirut a couple of days ago?
When will we ever learn, when will we ever learn?????