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What do we do now?

So it’s over; the Coalition has triumphed in the contest of ideas and will (eventually, one hopes) form a government.

Tony Abbott has been described as the most effective opposition leader in a generation. This may or may not be accurate, but it cannot be argued that he has achieved his goals with a combination of balls-to-the-wall confrontation and maintaining a small target on his weakest points. The question now becomes what kind of a Prime Minister he will make, and what his collection of Howard-era ministers will do now they’ve reached power in the 21st century.

The first thing we need to understand is that what the Coalition government will do, now it’s in power, is not what they said they would do while they were in opposition.

To some in the electorate, this may come as a surprise. They may actually think the Coalition fully intends to do the things they talked about during the campaign. But things promised during the campaign were not real; they were props, to support Tony Abbott’s approach to the job of opposition. They continued on from the years preceding the election, from the very moment of Abbott’s elevation to the position of Leader of the Opposition.

“The job of an opposition is to oppose”, and that’s what the Coalition did – regardless of whether they agreed with the policies on offer or not.

Prior to Tony Abbott, worthy policies had a chance of bipartisan support. Abbott himself in years gone by argued for the imposition of a carbon tax; Malcolm Turnbull was ready to sign on to support Labor’s policy in this area.

It was on this very matter that Abbott was able to replace Turnbull as the leader, and he never looked back. Even in those areas where there is “bipartisan support”, it is conditional; according to Tony Abbott, the Coalition wouldn’t be doing its job if it didn’t find aspects to criticise in even the best policy.

The Coalition’s stated intention since 2010 has been to oppose the government on any and all fronts. Opposing requires you to have an alternative solution to point to. It doesn’t have to be fully fleshed, or even achievable; nobody will look at it too closely whilst it’s just an alternative. But you can’t oppose a successful or important piece of policy or legislation without pointing people to an alternative; it shows that the thing you’re opposing is not inevitable.

So the Coalition threw its weight behind a bunch of pointless, useless or impractical ideas – not as real policies, but as props for its position of opposition. NBN-lite, Direct Action, the easy bits of Gonski; these helped it to point to Labor’s NBN, the carbon price, and the full package of Gonski and say “we don’t agree with these, and we don’t need them.” Despite the fact that experts universally panned the alternatives on offer, showed that they were impractical and expensive and simply couldn’t do what the Coalition was claiming, the opposition stuck to its guns knowing that the electorate didn’t care about details and didn’t care about feasibility. Pandering to a voter’s fears is eighty percent of the job, but the other twenty percent is to quiet that little part of their subconscious that says “what do we do instead”?

But now the time of opposition is over, and Tony Abbott and the Coalition have made a rod for their own back. They’ve sworn not to do deals. They’ve sworn to stick to their guns and get their promises delivered. They’ve sworn to be a no-nonsense government that says what it means and does what it says. And now it’s achieved government saying all of these impractical and counterproductive things that it is going to be required to do.

There are always get-out-of-jail clauses; every incoming Coalition government goes down the same path. The “budget position is so much worse than we knew that we can’t do the things we promised” route. Will the Australian people stand for it this time? For the first time, there was a PEFO, as thorough a retelling of the budget standing as possible, to ensure there are no surprises for an incoming government. Despite this, the amazing invisible Joe Hockey has been reported as saying that the Coalition would need an independent, external audit of the finances before they knew the true budget standing, so it seems obvious that they’re going to try this well-travelled road again.

And if the “not enough money” issue isn’t going to serve – for instance, in repealing taxes that you’ve sworn black and blue are losing money, or replacing a nation-building effort with something cheaper and nastier – then you can delay. Thus, the NBN will undergo “three separate reviews and a forensic audit” before the Coalition will even know what to do with it. Who wants to bet that these won’t take up most of the Coalition’s first term of government and be ready with propositions by the time the next election comes around? (Labor took a very similar approach to a series of policy areas in 2007, so it’s certainly not without precedent).

But eventually a government has to be judged on what it did, not what it said it would do. Sometimes, the promises that a government has made to get elected can come back to bite them. Thus Labor’s rounds of tax cuts, promised at the 2007 election in answer to the Coalition’s same promises, had to be delivered in subsequent years as the budget situation worsened and they became progressively more unaffordable. Those tax cuts may even have contributed to Labor’s more recent budget woes and its need to find new sources of revenue. Kevin Rudd, in those days, was desperate to keep all of his promises, just as Tony Abbott is now. Julia Gillard found out the hard way the results of being publicly excoriated over reneging on a promise (even though Gillard’s was a matter of semantics rather than intent). So will Tony Abbott back off his promises on NBN, on direct action, on PPL, on returning to budget surplus?

Those with memories of past conservative governments fear what this one might do when the promising is over and the sharp teeth of conservative policy are revealed. In any number of areas, in the last days of the election campaign, Tony Abbott and his senior staff were careful to put caveats on their promises. Undertakings which had previously been unequivocal – promises in blood, you might say – became subject to conditions. If the Direct Action plan on climate change fails to reach agreed emissions targets, the Coalition will renege rather than spend more money. The boats will be turned around – presuming it is safe to do so, which it never will be. (And incidentally, we won’t hear about it one way or another, because boats arriving is a politically damaging sight.) The NBN will be killed, with the exception of contracts already signed, because you can’t break contracts.

The big test for the Coalition is still to come. Will it stick to its guns? Will it attempt to implement damaging and ineffective policies that it doesn’t believe in itself? Will it revert on policy to ideas that are more useful, that might actually work, at the expense of going back on their word? And if so, what tricks will they pull to prove that what they said before the election was not a lie, but simply a position that had to be changed as circumstances changed?

And will the Australian people remember how well that particular approach worked for Julia Gillard?


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  1. kayelee1

    From what I can gather they won’t do ANYTHING now other than commission reviews and audits and white papers and green papers and try to undo anything that Labor achieved during its term in office.

  2. OzFenric

    The commissions, reviews and audits are all in order to *avoid* having to undo anything that Labor achieved. After all, if they undo Labor achievements they’ll have to come up with some of their own to replace them with that actually work.

  3. Roswell

    The big test! Will be an epic fail.

  4. kayelee1

    I cannot find one article in support of Direct Action but there are hundreds of them from all different sectors condemning it. It will cost billions and not achieve the bipartisan goal of reducing emissions and increasing renewable energy.

    Regarding the PPL scheme, the productivity commission stated that it would have little effect on increasing workplace participation and that ongoing childcare was a far more important factor in achieving this goal. Once again, billions wasted for little result.

    Mr Turnbull is calling for “Three separate reviews and a forensic audit of NBN Co ” even though he assured us during the campaign that this had already been done and it would cost 94 billion. This will require a new and published business plan coupled with analysis, which will be used to renegotiate the Telstra/NBN deal to arrange copper access and compensation in the fibre-to-the-node footprint as well as redesigning the rollout. It will also mean holding discussions with Optus and other industry players as well as contractors. Billions wasted on outdated technology which will connect about 22% of Australians rather than 93%.

    The Coalition plan to use our navy to “stop the boats” and to pursue offshore detention will also waste an enormous amount of money and does nothing to help the plight of asylum seekers or the problem for our neighbours in transit countries.

    The Coalition are claiming a mandate for all their policies regardless of the fact that the majority of Australians want FttP NBN, action on climate change, marriage equality and funding reform for education.

    All Tony appears to want to do is organise photo shoots. Did anyone else notice how uncomfortable our heads of defence looked the other day as they were forced to sit around a table while Tony posed for the photographers?

  5. Fed up

    “gather they won’t do ANYTHING”

    Seems to be spot on, if this week is anything to go by.

    It appears we are going to have a PM, cocooned in cotton wool, and staged managed at all times.

    Yes it is the Opposition’s job to oppose. It is also their jb to tell us how they will do it better.

    It is not the job of the Opposition, to set out to destroy people, or even legislation that has been put in place.

    It is not the Opposition’s job to talk down the economy.

    It is not the Opposition’s job, to take the position, they will do all in their power to destroy action taken by the government.

    Example, the PNG solution to the refugee problem. Yes, criticize, come up with something better, but not undermine.

    I suspect much will come back to haunt Abbott. Yes and he will have to crawl out of that cotton wool cocoon, they have around him.

    Procrastination will be the name of the GAME.

  6. Fed up

    I believe we have three events coming up, that Abbott cannot ignore. The first is APEC, where he will have to talk to the Indonesian PM. The second is the the costings, that are released after thirty days, from election. Then the G20, where Abbott will meet with Obama in November.

    The fourth will be the calling of parliament, it is said, will occur in November.

    All should show us, if Abbott does indeed have any mettle.

  7. Fed up

    Yes, even the stage managed appearance are being found wanting. The one handing over the keys was a beauty.

    Daughters staying home until married. Yes, is spite of one moving in with the boyfriend. Not that I judge her for that. Shows at least one of the family has some sense.

    Even when the media is kept arms length, he is blowing it.

    Looked uncomfortable as well. Could be because he has not intention of moving in.

  8. Fed up

    Wonder who they gave lined up for GG. suspect they will not procrastinate on that decision.

    Maybe Sophie, or even Pell would like the job.

  9. Fed up

    The one problem the Labor Opposition will not have, is genuine criticism of Abbott’s legislation.

    His government will have great trouble defending most, if not all.

  10. Adam Smith

    The Abbott direct action plan if implemented will be a failure. Even if governments in other nations implement a direct action plan, it will be a failure. Polluters of the earth’s environment cannot contain the damage they do. The damage affects every part of Earth. Anyone with a grain of intelligence knows this. But the LNP have great difficulty changing the way we have to think about our earth’s environment. For all these reasons, an effective plan for solving the climate crisis must include aggressive remedies for our erroneous reliance on deceptive market signals in carbon-based energy-signals that are both structurally flawed and intentionally manipulated by politicians corrupted by vested interests.

  11. hemingway13

    “So it’s over; the Coalition has triumphed in the contest of ideas and will (eventually, one hopes) form a government.”

    It’s exasperating to read yet another article which would only make the slightest bit of sense if the media playing field here was within a country mile of being level. The contest which Mr. Abbott and his minions won was due to an avalanche of propaganda from Murdoch, most Fairfax’s pundits (e.g. that prissy Tory Peter Hartcher in league with their phalanx of right-wing opinion columnists), and the ABC’s gormless copycat journos whipped into a Labor-hating imbalance by a former right-wing political candidate, Chris Uhlman).

    We witnessed not only the chairman of News Corp/Skynews tweeting and unleashing that diabolical hatchet man from his New York tabloids, but also the chairman of Fairfax attacking Labor’s leadership a few days before the election during a Lateline interview in which he and the ABC’s Ms. Albericci conspired to fraudulently spruik him as a disinterested member of the Federal Reserve Board while hiding his long- term stalwart membership of the Liberal party at that time and throughout the next day in ABC News bulletins.

    Anyone who watched FoxNews perpetrating eight years of enthusiastic cheerleading for President George W. Bush (while constantly berating his critics as being unpatriotic Americans who were not showing proper respect to the office of the presidency) will have seen a foreshadowing of the current egregious flip-flop in our mainstream media as its political journos morph from the attack dogs we’ve seen throughout the last six years into PM Abbott’s lapdogs.

    I find it bizarre that a writer contributing to the AIMN could possibly fail to understand that anyone who takes the time to read their commentaries already possesses a clear political position and vastly deeper understanding of the real issues and differences among the major parties than PM Abbott’s “swinging” voters who pay scant attention to serious news and who consider compulsory voting a pain in the proverbial.

    My partner and I are in the unusual situation of being financially secure retired people who never had children. Accordingly, when a whole generation of carpet bombing propaganda stuffed full with Labor-vilification and Coalition-flattery continues to escalate, we will not have to feel guilty that all other Australians’ grandchildren and great-grandchildren will cop the inevitable degradation of a Thatcherite economy and face the tragic future of a planet doomed to irreversible global warming. Poor fellow, our country. Poor fellow, our human species.

  12. OzFenric

    Sorry, maybe I should have put a smiley face on the first paragraph. I thought that “Coalition” and “contest of ideas” might have been enough of a dissonance to make the sarcasm clear. 🙂

    My point here was more about the policies that the Coalition is now shotgun-wedded to and wondering how they’ll go about either implementing them (and watching them fail), holding them off with reviews and white papers until the public forgets about them, or reneging on them – and if the latter, a reminder to the Australian people that we should hold them as much to account for breaking their promises as they have done to Labor for the last six years.

  13. Bob Evans

    @ Adam

    The Abbott direct action plan if implemented will be a failure. Even if governments in other nations implement a direct action plan, it will be a failure.

    I reckon that’s the point. Abbotts direct inaction policy, will do as you say, fail. So the next step will be to cancel the whole policy and commission a study by Ian Plimer and Bob Carter to see if we should do anything.

  14. Adam Smith

    Bob, Funny thing about that man Plimer, he was looking, as I recall it, for remnants of an ancient boat on top a mountain. But during the aftermath of the Chernobyl Nuclear Reactor failure, REAL scientists carried out a survey of the Black Sea in order to establish radiation impacts. They found archeological remains dated back to the previous prehistoric flood.

  15. OzFenric

    Ian Plimer used to be a real scientist; he studied, and published real work in the field of geology. I’m not aware of him doing anything of note in recent decades. It is more than sad, it is bewildering to see a noted and effective scientist publish claptrap riddled with fundamental scientific errors (not even errors of understanding, just statements of fact that are baldly wrong) which is what his most recent ‘novels’ have amounted to. It’s like he’s two different persons. Or it could be just that hyperbole is easier than science – and eminently more profitable.

  16. Fed up

    Abbott knows what he is doing. How do I know. Abbott keeps telling us, his government will be methodically,calm etc. Every word if similar meaning is used by them.

    Yes, we have to believe what Tony tells us.

    We have to do this, as we have not sighted that government elect.

    Why the cheap lodgings. Is this to cover up the fact, the wife does not intend to spend time in Canberra.

    What has been his lodgings been up to now, when he was just a ordinary MP, over the last couple of decades or more.

    Insiders. Different arrangements if wife in Canberra. Wonder when the announcement is going to be, when he moves into Kirribilli?

  17. Fed up

    Love the questions that Cassidy is asking of Joel Fitzgibbons. Yes, would the polls been so bad for Gillard, if she was not undermined for most of her term.

  18. Fed up

    Sorry, I believe I might have used the wrong word. “orison”

  19. tony

    seeing as this is the first time Indonesia has directly apposed any proposition from an Australian govt , I cannot imagine where we will go from here !! strange thing I have no post on my face book from anyone saying they voted for him and are looking forward to life under his / Howards rule !!!

  20. Fed up

    Even our trolls deny they support Abbott. Well, that is what they have been saying for so long. Maybe they did vote for him.

    Labor learnt, that truth did not matter, that it is all abut perception.

    Many out there, working overtime, to convince us, what a wonderful man, Abbott really is. Why the need for them to be saying anything.

    Maybe it is not only Labor that is on the nose, but both parties.

  21. SamB

    the only reason he was an ‘effective’ opposition leader is because we have an ineffective media (yes.. you too Fairfax).

    meanwhile so many LNP supporters have been tweeting and facebooking from day one their desire that Turnbull takeover, surely an unprecedented event.
    Will they too become disenchanted ?

  22. brickbob

    I think if Tony Abbott murdered his whole family in cold blood the Media would spin it as Tony just having a daggy Dad moment and nothing to see here folks so just move on.
    The main danger is not the fact Murdoch and co put him there but they will allow them to get away with anything they dam well please and they have already started by not reporting on new boat arrivals and the almost non reporting of Credlins let off on drink driving charges and I saw the reading and she was not just tipsy, she was pissed to the eyeballs and she could have killed someone and even if she did Brandis would just write a letter and she would be as right as rain, no, this is serious scary stuff and it should scare the crap out of everyone of us and all this before they have even been sworn in, and I said before the election that the Barbarians were at the gate, well now they have smashed it down and have entered the City so if the price of freedom is eternal vigilance then we should all be on our guard.

  23. Adam Smith

    We live in a democracy which by its very nature is a form of political organisation inherently suspicious of authority. I have a relative who lives in the NSW Federal electorate of Robertson where the ALP lost (-0.414%) national average, and where the LNP lost by (-0.217%). The Liberals only won the seat on preferences. My proposition being that the incumbent lost because the electorate got sick of the way they behaved as politicians and the Liberals lost because many in the public suggested that they tell lies. So trust, suspicion seem to me to be at the heart of the people thinking as many voted for one independent (6,800 votes). Even the Greens received a negative vote. Of course in our styled democracy it is, I believe, taken for granted that no government is perfect, no ruling doctrine (Despite the despotic styled religious ideas being espoused by some high ups in the RC Church) or ideology unquestionably valid. So the valid Question”What do we do now?” is very important, given that no one understood the Abbott (Murdoch, Jones et al) advertised policies. Do you or any one reading this understand what his policies in fact actually will do to our Australian way of life?

  24. Adam Smith

    @Tony, with respect to Indonesian Government, warning PM elect Tony Abbott MP. “Blind-non-thinking-Freddy” can understand that the Australian people under the government led by Tony Abbott as PM, and occupying the elected office of Security Council of the World (voted in by 147 nations) in The United Nations; now apprehending people seeking refuge in boats sailing in international waters and seeking to place them upon Indonesian sovereign land, seemingly breaks all the conventions one can imagine relating to our responsibility as a member of the United Nations. I think that if Mr Abbott persists with his elected plan, the Australian people who voted for him, may have voted for a “pig … ” styled government. Furthermore, they have adopted a “cruel” policy, voting to sack 12000+ Australian people from well-educated-highly experienced-informed public service jobs. How low can you go? But it does mimic the uncaring human failings which exists in the materialist minds of many. What do you think?

  25. Bob Evans

    Here I was mentioning Ian Plimer and Bob Carter and their use by the Coalition ( Murdoch is their media arm) to undermine climate change.

    And using the Daily Mail as a reference? Unbelievable. The next IPCC report is out in a week or so. Prepare for the carpet bombing of misinformation from Murdoch , Fairfax and other MSM, who need to save Coalition face.

  26. Kaye Lee

    “Professor” Andrew Dolt said in an article yesterday:

    “… the leaked report makes the extraordinary concession that the world has been warming at only just over half the rate claimed by the IPCC in its last assessment, published in 2007.

    Back then, it said that the planet was warming at a rate of 0.2C every decade – a figure it claimed was in line with the forecasts made by computer climate models.

    But the new report says the true figure since 1951 has been only 0.12C per decade – a rate far below even the lowest computer prediction.”

    and then we have what the 2007 report ACTUALLY said:

    “The linear warming trend over the 50 years from 1956 to 2005 (0.13 [0.10 to 0.16]°C per decade) is nearly twice that for the 100 years from 1906 to 2005.”

    but let’s not let truth get in the way of a good denial story!

    Climate Leak Bombshell or Numeric Dyslexia. We report. You Decide.

  27. Adam Smith

    Some people may agree with me, that the main stream media continues undermining scientists reported concerns about climate change. We’ve seen in this recent election cycle how oil and coal interests were among the largest contributors to the LNP. Most Australians watch commercial TV about 5 hours per day as well as listen to commercial radio. They are bombarded with cleverly designed advertisements at an unprecedented rate. By the volumes of manufactured waste product delivered to tips and recycling depots we can easily see that society is engaged in an orgy of excessive consumption. The commercial media interests are responsible for this as they profit in the $billions. Our political model is captive to this voracious consumption burning fossils at an unprecedented rate polluting our atmosphere, oceans and destroying the natural drivers which maintain our food chains and so on. These people living amongst us are treating planet earth as if it were a business in liquidation. Western society as we know it is heading far south and will eventually destroy itself consumed by greed and the destruction of man-kinds environment. In the end it will be mankind that will disappear, but the Earth will renew itself.

  28. Wayne

    More comes out about Gillards criminal behaviour while in politics, now it’s revealed she lent a tax payer funded car to her gay boyfriend so he could go out and sell shampoo THEN TIRED TO COVER IT UP.
    LETS hope this Liberal Goverment can do what the previous Labor Government couldn’t, stop its ministers from stealing from the tax payers and union members.

  29. kayelee1

    Let’s see…did that say Julia Gillard paid a “personal cheque” to cover the payment 6 years ago? When Tony was busted catching planes and using com cars to promote his book he at first deniied it, then disputed the amount, then let his publisher pay his bill which was over $9,400. Who’s the criminal?

    My My Wayne…you AND the Australian are getting desparate to find something aren’t you. The usual Liberal deflection tactics when things go bad…like Tony fulfilling Julia Gillard’s prediction that women would not have a voice in his Ministry. Or are you trying to make us forget all Julie Bishop’s foreign affairs gaffes that just keep on coming.

    Could I remind you of Peter Reith?

  30. Wayne

    Yes Kaylee1 close your eyes and pretend that Gillard was competent and honest, not the first time she did dodgy deals with boyfriends, $50,000 in union money to renovate a house ring a bell? Why did Rudd get sacked again? Oh that’s right, Murdoch made Labor sack him. Why did Gillard get sacked again? Oh that’s right Murdoch made Labor sack her. The Australian people have endured 6 years of the most inept Government we have ever seen, we didn’t even know who would be PM week to week when Labor were in powering, why did we the people boot them out, oh Murdoch again. When clowns like you refuse to believe the obvious, Labor were incompetent and spent Australia’s wealth like drunken sailors which is why they got the boot, but instead of opening your eyes you look for a scape goat, Murdoch. Didn’t hear you bitching in 07 when he showed Kevin in a good light and not Howard.
    We now have the first coherent Government since 2007, Liberals didn’t back Labors policies BECAUSE THEY WERE DUMB POLICIES, and who says you have to have an alternative policy to oppose a bad one….thats dumb,,Labor policy was generally made on the run with no thought of their outcome or effect e.g pink batt, Automotive FBT increases, 2007 border protection changes, school halls,
    Say Kaylee1, how much though and investigation did Rudd put into the vehicle FBT increase, he was only PM for a week before he increased that tax, is that enough time to assess the effects of a tax increase? Results of the tax, kills local car manufacturing, 100 umeployed at McMillan Shakespeare.

  31. Adam Smith

    @Wayne, I agree that the Federal ALP Parliamentary Membership became disenchanted with itself as they moved for a series of “spills” un-electing party leader Mr Rudd PM, and electing Ms Gillard PM able to form a government twice; and re-electing Mr Rudd PM to form a government. That’s democracy at work. But one can also go back to the days of Liberal Party Members Mr Menzies, Mr Gorton, Mr Sneddon, Mr Peacock, Mr Howard, Mr Peacock and Mr Howard et-al, as they conducted their party “spills” electing different leaders. Again democracy at work. When it comes to corruption, well what can I say, a corrupt person elected to make law in public office is a serious breach of trust and with our separation of powers, the police investigate individuals, they charge the person and the Australian Courts deliver justice. This was was the case in Queensland when a Federal Court Judge delivered justice concerning a former Speaker of The House of Representatives. Not well received by some members of the Liberal Party of Australia. Wayne, you may reflect upon peoples individual integrity, no doubt that’s your democratic right. But I think that you know, in your own heart how good or how bad you really are, and as I read your words, I also know how good you really are.

  32. OzFenric

    David Suzuki has an article in Fairfax today regarding climate change. He is not alone in thinking that climate change is an existential issue, the one thing most likely to cause the extinction of the human species in the short term, and one that we have an outside chance of addressing before it’s too late. Whether you agree, or think that David Suzuki is just another hard-case commie hippie, climate change is a good example of my point. “Who says you have to have an alternative policy to oppose a bad one?” Common wisdom does.

    The Direct Action plan was never expected to work, was never intended to work, was probably not even intended to be fully implemented. It exists solely to take the climate change issue off the table; it allowed the demonisation of the carbon price (which has been, on the whole, good for the Australian economy, and will just become more critical in the future as the global carbon market continues). On this, and paid parental leave (“over my dead body”), and any of a dozen other areas, the Coalition put forward policies simply to tick the boxes, not because they actually wanted to accomplish them.

    You can disagree with Labor’s policies if you like. I don’t think they were DUMB POLICIES, and neither do most of the world’s economists, scientists, educators, health workers or politicians, but you are entitled to your opinion. But an opposition ought to do the electorate the courtesy of having policies they believe in and wish to implement for the good of the country, not for the good of the Liberal party’s electoral chances.

  33. Adam Smith

    @OzFenric, I agree with your article, the LNP is only confirming what all ‘tory’ reactionaries do when elected to govern.

  34. OzFenric

    @Adam, my response was intended @Wayne, but you beat me to it!

  35. kayelee1

    Wayne I am not sure where you get your information from (though I could hazard a guess) but let’s deal with facts rather than crap shall we.

    You obviously do not understand FBT for starters. There has been NO increase in FBT. The only change was asking people to keep a logbook for 3 months once every five years to justify their claim of business use for their cars. This is surely not an onerous task and just in keeping with all other record keeping required when making a tax claim. Apparently from the outcry this caused there have been many people rorting the system by illegally claiming business use when it was not the case. Cracking down on tax rorting is something we need to do more of as people like Gina and Rupert hide their income in off-shore tax havens to avoid paying their fair share of taxation.

    Regarding the pink batts and school halls, these programs were an outstanding success. Not only did they stimulate the economy keeping many thousands in work and helping us avoid a recession, they provided over a million homes with insulation (saving on power bills) and thousands of schools with much needed facilities. There are countless reports proving the benefits of these two programs.

    Your claim that Liberals didn’t back Labor policies is not factual. They opposed the NDIS until they realised the people wanted it so they did a quick turnaround. They opposed education funding reform until they realised the people wanted it. Abbott appointed Turnbull to destroy the NBN calling it a “white elephant” until they realised the people wanted it. They opposed paid parental leave until Tony realised he needed something to win back women’s votes and so came up with a ridiculous PPL scheme that he did not run by the party or the productivity commission, nor did he do any form of cost-benefit analysis. The majority of people want action on climate change so Tony had to come up with something but his Direct Action Plan has been discredited by all the experts (and many of his party) as it will be very expensive and not achieve the desired results.

    This election was hijacked by a party who has no hesitation in lying to the people they represent and Murdoch most definitely helped by publishing those lies. They lied about the effects of the carbon pricing scheme. They refused to work in a bipartisan way towards addressing the refugee problem and hyped it up out of all proportion to make it a vote getter – something no other Opposition has ever done. They lied about a “budget emergency” which has apparently now disappeared.

    Tony Abbott is a manipulative populist whose only goal was to wear the crown and I cringe at the thought of having him and Julie Bishop representing this country to the rest of the world.

  36. Adam Smith

    @Kayelee1, Tony ABBOTT PM, will have, hopefully, read the GREEN BOOK presented to him by the Head (A PUBLIC SERVANT) of the Department of PM. As I understand it, the Dept of PM employs around 2000 highly educated experienced public servants. He’s already campaigned to sack some of them. As the global depression recedes, many nations will be, and are already competing for capital investment, including Australia. As you know, it takes about $3million invested, to create a permanent average income job. The debt that Tony Abbott campaigned to cut will have to be replaced by private international capital, sloshing around the global markets. Some of the Billionaires who supported Abbott may now be called upon to actually loosen their stored capital to help him. After all, if he reduces real wages he may only be a oncer one term PM. Mr Abbott PM has ‘farted’ a lot of hot air in the last three odd years. And whilst his side loves the smell of it, it fundamentally doesn’t count for anything in the world’s corporate boardrooms, as they open their many windows, windows that he hasn’t even yet discovered exist. He will now have to govern. He may employ the dullard Costello to Audit his Green Book, but it will be an Audit into his own management, and his applied economic management, based upon his flimsy mandate, will be witnessed for all of us to experience. Forget Wayne, people like him are simpleton’s in the extreme, as are many in the LNP.

  37. Wayne

    Adam Smith, it seems your the simpleton to the extreme, please explain how 6 men removing a PM democratically elected by all Australians is democracy? If that happened in Fiji it would be a coup. Could you ever imaging half a dozen men deciding Obama should no longer be President and removing him?

    OzFenric, are you for real, you think a tax has been good for the economy? No really? Let me see, a tax takes money away from people which reduces their ability to spend on other goods and services. To stimulate the economy during the GFC Rudd gave people money to spend on goods and services. Apparently putting money into the economy stimulates it so then shouldn’t taking money out of the economy do the opposite? So while we were still feeling the effects of the GFC Gillard introduces a tax undoing what the stimulus package was designed to do, again policy on the run solely to please the Greens and hold power without any thought on its impact.

    Oh Kayelee1, it seems you have been misinformed about Rudds FBT changes. Ford has blamed them for their shut down, Holdens publicly stated that because Rudds FBT changes they will decide after the election whether to keep manufacturing in Australia. Have a read about the effects
    Even the Salvation Army, have you heard of them and the charitable work they do? Rudds FBT changes slugged them $4 Million dollars.

    This is why the outgoing Labor party are seen as the most inept Governments to ever run our Country, it’s why WE THE PEOPLE voted them out, policy on the run with no consultation or consideration of its effects on people or the economy is the reason we voted LNP not Murdoch but we do thank him for printing these truths to inform us. Perhaps you should get out of these pro Labor pages where there are no standards or accountability and read more MSM who do have enforceable standards and accountability. .

  38. Wayne

    Oh, Kayelee1, you also think the FBT changes effect companies, WRONG, Most employers allow salary sacrifice of a motor vehicle through a Novated Lease to employees, for those employees it’s the only way they will ever be able to afford to buy a new car and figures point to 70% of all new car sales being Novated Leases. Rudd has made it impossible for them to now afford a new car, many of them being Holdens and Fords (I got a Holden) so bye bye Holden and Ford and what, 30,000 jobs with them and component suppliers? Mr Policy Ontherun at work.

    Ha ha ha, I forgot to answer your million homes with pink batts, they had to be removed because they were dangerous installs, many of them millions of homes they were not even installed but the Government was billed as there was no accountability in the scheme. It was basically $2 billion dollars pissed down the drain. It also wiped out legitimate businesses by allowing dodgy installers to do the job. You also forget the GFC occurred during the height of the mining boom, that money didn’t need to be wasted and even Labor considered Rudd failed us during the GFC, that’s why they sacked him.

  39. Möbius Ecko

    You certainly have economics twisted around Wayne, that’s for sure.

    Tell us outside of the Liberals, the right wing media and their mindless supporters who saw the Labor government as one of the most inept ever Wayne? I just hate these throwaway meaningless statements from right wingers supposed stated as an indisputable fact but with nothing of substance to back them up.

    Abbott in one week and he stuffed up and then within 10 days couldn’t even get one of the most basic jobs of an incoming government right, which was made worse by the fact that over the last three years he said he was ready to govern at a moments notice, but obviously wasn’t.

    I would like your thoughts on this Wayne, which is what Abbot is heading towards.

    The new government wants to minimise the flow of bad news to the community to allow confidence to recover; it wants to differentiate itself from the frenetic nature of the Labor years. Rising confidence, rising house prices, rising share prices are part of what is called the “wealth effect” and the thinking goes that with all three turning up, consumers will be encouraged to save less and spend more, as they did in the Howard years, by either running down their high savings or taking on more debt.

    That thinking, by the way, ignores the negatives: that more spending could see bank deposits start falling, forcing the banks to borrow more from the wholesale funds, thereby increasing their riskiness, not to mention the impact on inflation of increased demand, which will force interest rates up.

    Remember it was Costello who said that Howard’s policy of the “wealth effect”, you know the “you’ve never had it so good”, was unsustainable, something backed up by just about every economist at the time, yet here we have Abbott wanting to go back to loading the private and business sector with unsustainable debt and the high interest rates and inflation that ensue from that.

  40. rossleighbrisbane

    According to Wayne, Ford is blaming the FBT changes for their decision to close.

    “Oh Kayelee1, it seems you have been misinformed about Rudds FBT changes. Ford has blamed them for their shut down”

    This remarkable as Ford announced their intention to shutdown in May, before Rudd was even returned to role of PM.

    So Wayne, how do you explain that??? Oh, by abuse and asserting that you’re right and EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID!
    Or possibly you’ll just ignore it like all the other times people have USED facts to counteract your rantings.
    Get a life, mate.

  41. kayelee1

    Wayne I am most definitely NOT misinformed about the FBT changes. It is not a new tax, it is not an increased tax, it is purely enforcing the rules about the tax and if people have been rorting then it needs to stop. When the govt brought in the 20% option it was to reduce paperwork, NOT to allow people to lie about business usage though it appears that is what happened, If people have been abusing the system then it needs to change.

    You also seem to ignore the fact that the tax free threshold was raised as part of the compensation for the carbon tax ands that lower income households were actually better off. In fact you don’t seem to understand taxation or economics at all so I will leave you to read your newspapers and blather on but you should know that your ignorance is glaring to anyone with even a rudimentary understanding of finances and politics.

    In short wayne, you don’t have a clue what you are talking about and responding to you is an absolute waste of time – one I won’t bother with in future.

  42. Möbius Ecko

    Ha ha ha, I forgot to answer your million homes with pink batts, they had to be removed because they were dangerous installs, many of them millions of homes they were not even installed but the Government was billed as there was no accountability in the scheme. It was basically $2 billion dollars pissed down the drain. It also wiped out legitimate businesses by allowing dodgy installers to do the job. You also forget the GFC occurred during the height of the mining boom, that money didn’t need to be wasted and even Labor considered Rudd failed us during the GFC, that’s why they sacked him.

    Utter bullshit Wayne and unless you can show the data for those claims you as usual are just blowing it out you’re arse.

    What is it with right wingers that they feel they need to grossly exaggerate or misrepresent the facts to make a point.

  43. rossleighbrisbane

    Wayne makes me think of the quote from Mark Twain.

    “It’s better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than open it and remove all doubt”

  44. Wayne

    LOOK OUT, here we go again, GFC2 is on its way

    How did Rudd leave our economy, $280 BILLION IN DEBT, we avoided the GFC1 in 2007 mostly because Howard left Dudd $70 BILLION IN SURPLUS, Thanks to Labor the effects of this one will be over 5 times worse than the last. THANKYOU Labor Voters for what you have done and the outcome for what is about to happen, I’m hoping you lose everything this time. How lucky are we to now have a strong Government who won’t panic like Rudd and sell our future down the drain, expect 3 years of hardship though instead of the 10-15 that would be created by Rudd.

  45. rossleighbrisbane

    I notice that Wayne is ignoring the fact that he got the Ford closure spectacularly wrong. Typical.

  46. Adam Smith

    @ Wayne, As a devout Abbott PM LNP admirer, I’d reckon you may well be identified as a conservative, waving your little flag-man pushing your barrow a long hill. Even that well known Statesman, Benjamin Disraeli PM, once told the Members assembled in the British House of Commons, that, quote, “A Conservative Government is an organised hypocrisy”. How very right and observant he was.

  47. Wayne

    Möbius Ecko
    September 18, 2013 • 3:30 pm……..the Labor Government themselves saw the Rudd / Gillard governments the most inept EVER. Proof of this is they SACKED Rudd, the serving PM in 2010 and the Gillard, the serving PM in 2013. An interesting fact is prior to 2010, for a rounds 110 years, NO SERVING PM HAD EVER BEEN SACKED and Labor did it twice in 3 years. Stupid people think its democratic for 6 men to sit in a room and decide to sack a democratically elected countries leader (Adam Smith thinks that’s democracy in action)


    ROSSLEIGHBRISBANE please show me where i was spectacularly wrong? No be a man, or woman, and admit is was spectacularly RIGHT.

  48. Wayne

    I notice ROSSLEIGHBRISBANE is ignoring the fact that WAYNE got the Ford closure spectacularly RIGHT. Typical.

  49. Wayne

    I thought so, that will be the last we hear from ROSSLEIGHBRISBANE on this subject, no balls.

  50. kayelee1

    What part don’t you understand wayne. The closures were announced in May, Rudd took over in June, the FBT changes were announced in July. Try to keep up petal.

  51. rossleighbrisbane

    That will be the last we hear from me on the subject?
    Not only is the man wrong, he’s delusional.

  52. rossleighbrisbane

    Just to repeat my earlier quote about Wayne.

    “According to Wayne, Ford is blaming the FBT changes for their decision to close.

    “Oh Kayelee1, it seems you have been misinformed about Rudds FBT changes. Ford has blamed them for their shut down”

    This remarkable as Ford announced their intention to shutdown in May, before Rudd was even returned to role of PM.

    So Wayne, how do you explain that??? Oh, by abuse and asserting that you’re right and EVERYONE ELSE IS STUPID!
    Or possibly you’ll just ignore it like all the other times people have USED facts to counteract your rantings.
    Get a life, mate.

    Wayne responds by ignoring the fact that Ford announced the closure earlier than the FBT stuff, and suggesting that I have no balls.

    Wayne, Ford closed because morons like you bought Holdens. Makes about as much sense as you do.

  53. rossleighbrisbane

    As for Wayne’s assertion: “An interesting fact is prior to 2010, for a rounds 110 years, NO SERVING PM HAD EVER BEEN SACKED and Labor did it twice in 3 years”

    I can name Gorton and Hawke off the top of my head.
    Oh, and Holt. He was sacked for not turning up to work.

  54. rossleighbrisbane

    I remember once telling someone I refuse to enter a battle of wit with an unarmed man.
    Wayne makes me nostalgic for someone like Dirk Rossey, who at least had the advantage of reading what I wrote.

  55. kayelee1

    I wonder how Holden is feeling now that Tony has won and will be ripping 500 million in subsidy from the car industry.

  56. Adam Smith

    The overriding issue facing all of us will revolve around Abbott’s economic management. He’s already lost the “Stop the Boats” campaign as well as the Education campaign. But on the proverbial list of top ten reasons for Abbott’s un-costed policies, his sense of reality will be truly tested. He cannot pray himself out of the fact that he failed to make a case for balancing the budget in this economic cycle. If he can get $500 billions from the asset sales like medicare etc, His other plan, may be, is to convince Australians tax-payers that the Goods and Services Tax must be increased to between 15-17.5% including all food and services. So lets see what smart tax reform Abbott & Hockey will cook up in their kitchen and serve us up to eat. To date, the LNP’s black-hole un-costed policies will keep the punters guessing. But I suspect that Murdocracy is already designing propaganda to keep the voters entertained, as they sit like proverbial frogs in water not realising that it will begin to boils as the value of their incomes shrink. In any event, it has always been a fact that tory LNP styled governments betray the very people they’ve made promises to. After all, by making more workers poorer they make few owners who pay for their campaigns, richer.

  57. Wayne

    Refer to my previous post Kayelee1, I notice you ignore the proof when it’s presented to you, let me cut and paste what FORD said about the FBT changes

    Ford warns of more shutdowns if sales slide and FBT changes are not reversed
    Struggling car maker Ford has foreshadowed more production shutdowns as the Rudd Government’s changes to Fringe Benefits Tax puts the brakes on Falcon sales. Ford factory workers began the first of 12 “down days” today and tomorrow as the company admitted forward orders for the Falcon sedan slumped in the fortnight immediately after the FBT changes were announced.
    We can confirm today is the first of extra down days in August and September as a direct result of the proposed changes to FBT,” said Ford Australia spokeswoman Sinead Phipps. “We saw lower sales in the last two weeks of July and our dealers have told us they expect Falcon sales to dip in August and September. We will see what happens after the election to decide if we need to schedule more (production) down days.”

    What part of that don’t you understand, the FBT has directly cost jobs NOW not in 2016 maybe.

    I assume you don’t work at Fords, shame the Rudd Government has caused their wages to be cut, they don’t get paid on the days the factory is closed you know!

  58. kayelee1

    No need to paste what I had already read Wayne. I don’t consider the Australian and the SMH as reliable sources.

    The FBT may have had a small effect on Ford but the fact of the matter is that the closures were announced pre those changes. That excerpt talks about down days, not sackings.

    “Ford president Bob Graziano said approximately 1,200 workers would lose their jobs when the Broadmeadows and Geelong plants were shut down.

    He made the announcement in Melbourne this morning after announcing that the company had lost $141 million over the last financial year – taking losses over the past five years to more than $600 million.”

    Perhaps that may have a little more to do with it than the FBT changes.

  59. rossleighbrisbane

    But, Wayne, Abbott’s in power, now.
    Surely, he’s reversed this.

  60. rossleighbrisbane

    And I’m pretty sure that nobody works at “Fords”, Wayne.

  61. kayelee1

    You will note they have been losing an average of 140 million a year including BEFORE the carbon tax and mining tax. You need to investigate the problems caused by the high Aussie dollar, high wages, and Ford’s lack of foresight.

  62. Wayne

    ROSSLEIGHBRISBANE …John Gorton was never sacked, he was challenged but won, so your saying only Labor operate democratically and sack Prime Ministers elected by the people.
    It’s the hight of delusional behaviour to ignore WHAT FORD HAS SAID about their closing down production. I won’t bother replying to your lingered comments any more, you truly have a few kangaroos loose in the top paddock and you appear to have been brainwashed by pro-Labor propaganda.

    KAYELEE1…… I think Holden breathed a sigh of relief that Abbott won, sure they might not get $500 million.but they now will be able to sell cars.

  63. Wayne

    KAYELEE1 doesn’t believe The Australian or The Age, or Carsguide to be reliable sources DISPITE them being governed by a Code of Ethics from their Professional Assosiation BUT DOES believe what’s written in this publication DISPITE the hobby journalist having no such requirements. ……….you poor delusional dear, now go put you alfoil hat on and have a lie down, it must be so stressful having aliens trying to scan your brain waves all day.

  64. kayelee1

    Wayne you can bluster all you want. You can call names if it makes you feel like a winner. You can read whatever you choose to. But you cannot change the facts.

  65. kayelee1

    And as far as Gorton was concerned…the vote was tied…he had the option to cast the deciding vote but chose not to…u nlike our current PM who was jumping up and down saying pick me pick me. Gorton felt that he had lost because he did not have the confidence of the majority of the caucus. Tony Abbott grabbed that opportunity with both hands and then said ok make me look like I can do this thang.

  66. cornlegend

    Now there you have it.
    Poor deluded Wayne.
    Thats why you have a LNP government.
    A paddock full of Waynes.
    Wayne, don’t respond.
    I don’t answer dip sticks

  67. Adam Smith

    @Wayne you have failed your history test. John Gorton was sacked by himself. Secondly, Ford Australia has been losing market share caused by Toyota and Mazda eta al. The tightening of the tax requirements to prove that one is actually using a car for business purposes has nothing to do with it. Your economic argument is stupid and any economist, even a student in High School studying economics, will tell you this. As usual you’ve been captive to the absolute bullshit pedalled by the likes of Abbott & Hockey et al before they took an oath of office earlier today, promising to be absolutely honest with the Australian people.

  68. Wayne

    KAYELEE1, please read what your write, it makes you sound stupid to right thinking individuals. You just associated Gorton having a tied vote with Abbott, when did Abbott jump up and down saying Pick Me Pick Me? Abbot had a majority, not a tie. Do you notice how Abbott and Turnbull actually can now work together as a u tied team, does it remind you of Rudd / Gillard? Lets fae it, Labor are an incoherent rabble.

  69. kayelee1

    Just thinking about “Operation Sovereign Borders”.

    Firstly, I wonder how our defence leaders felt about Tony choosing to name the operation, a duty/privilege that has always been up to the military in the past. I also wonder how they felt about having to endure a photo shoot….Tony’s new brigade (can I drive a tank…pretty please).

    One thing that amuses me is that they obviously drew the line at having Tony’s pet “turn back the boats expert”, Jim Molan, thrust upon them as the man in charge, even though Tony had promised him the job and Lord knows he did enough interviews to score the gig.

    I also wonder why the media has made so little of 7 boats carrying over 500 people arriving so far on “Tony’s watch”.

    I also wonder how much this operation is going to cost. How many naval vessels will be deployed? How many naval personnel will be part of this operation?

    I also wonder why Julie Bishop continues to say “We won’t be asking for Indonesia’s permission or co-operation about this policy. We will be informing them of what we intend to do.” (death stare)

    I wonder how Tony Abbott will go when he travels to Indonesia and they tell him “to his face” that he may not buy Indonesian fishing vessels and that he may not tow boats back to Indonesia and that he must help by taking our fair share of refugees.

    I have this vision of Tony wearing a captain’s hat and pushing boats around a bathtub saying “abaft me hearties”.

  70. kayelee1

    Tony Abbott won by one vote 42-41 (tell me he didn’t vote for himself). Fran Bailey, a supporter of Turnbull, was in hospital and so absent for the vote, and there was one vote of “no”, which was recorded as informal. You call that a majority?

  71. Wayne

    Ok, no 42 to 41 is not a majority…….pffft

  72. Wayne

    Tony got sworn in by the GG today, how could those 7 boats possibly been on his watch? Please explain it to me? Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t we still operating under Dudds policy, how’s that working out?

  73. kayelee1

    Gorton could have voted for himself and had that same majority and done so without forcing the vote when one member was unavailable. You need to remember how Tony got the job.

    Mr Turnbull questioned the integrity of Senator Minchin, Mr Abbott and last week’s leadership challenger Kevin Andrews for previously supporting an ETS and now opposing Labor’s scheme.

    “They are destroying the Liberal Party,” he said.

    “There is a recklessness and a wilfulness in these men which is going to destroy the Liberal Party.”

    The negotiated emissions trading deal had to be passed this week, the Liberal leader insisted.

    “I will win on Tuesday.

    “I am not interested in becoming a mouthpiece, or a patsy, or a tool for people whose views are completely wrong and are contrary to the best interests of our nation, our planet and indeed the Liberal Party.”

    Read more:

    I note Minchin has been rewarded by Tony giving him Steve Brack’s job. And so the paybacks begin.

  74. Wayne

    Give it up Kayelee, your beginning to sound dumber and dumber and keep on digging a bigger hole for yourself.

  75. Wayne

    Who is Steve Bracks and why did he get the job offer in the first place, could it have been his political back ground. We are all aware of Labors history of appointing top level retired Labor ministers and Union Chiefs into senior bureaucratic positions.

  76. Wayne

    KAYELEE, please answer my question on how 7 boat arrivals could be during Abbots watch if he hasn’t been sworn in as PM?

  77. kayelee1

    Tony Abbott chose to delay his swearing in just as he has chosen to delay the resumption of Parliament. No-one else was in a position to do anything about it.

    I agree it’s a stretch to blame him, just like him blaming everyone else for 6 years has been BS.

    Now could you answer all the points I raised about “Operation Sovereign Borders” (coughwhatawank)

  78. rossleighbrisbane

    Using Wayne’s logic – Gorton wasn’t sacked, he resigned when he failed to achieve a majority when a spill was called – Rudd CLEARLY wasn’t sacked, as it didn’t even go to a vote in 2010.
    He resigned.
    So therefore, the whole premise that Wayne started with is incorrect.
    But there’s no point in the argument because Wayne’s argument will be:
    “You are just stuppid. You don’t no wot you are talking about. Rud was sacked becos he culdn’t get the numbars. Whereas Gorton choose to resign because he culd see that Fraser was a much better pm.”
    And when you point out that it was Billy McMahon who took over, he will say what a great pm he was and then give you a link to something which has nothing to do with what he’s talking about.

  79. Wayne

    ROSSLEIGHBRISBANE thankyou for proving my point, it’s always nice when someone like you or KAYELEE come along to demonstrate how retarded Labor Voters are. Rudd wasn’t sacked in 2010, good one. Next you will be telling me that he resigned because he did such a great job during the GFC that he thought his job was done.Are you the most intelligent Labor Supporter that they can come up with, sad really as it appears your losing grip on reality.
    P/s sorry for providing links to prove you were wrong but some people have experienced 6 years of Labor brainwashing and are unable to decipher fact from the bullshit fed them by Labor.

    KAYELEE, must be hard to admit YOU WERE WRONG, even then you blame Abbott, you have a real psychological problem there. Abbott did not delay the swearing in, these things are arrange in a certain time frame. On a bright note you didn’t blame Murdoch for it to take just over a week for Abbott to be sworn in, now look, you burned your dinner….Murdoch again I suppose.

  80. Bacchus

    Go Wayne! You’re doing excellent job here. Thousands of readers are well able to judge the calibre of coalition supporters from your confused, inaccurate and deluded rants.

    Presented with facts, you flamboyantly proclaim, “NO! your (sic) wrong. I’m right!” One can only assume, from your asinine musings, that the sum total of your political information is sourced from the Murdoch press, specifically the likes of Bolt and Pies Akerman.

    Keep it up mate – you’re an excellent asset to the Labor cause 😉

  81. kayelee1

    There is no certain time frame you silly sausage. In 1972 the election was on Dec 2nd. As soon as the result was certain Gough Whitlam went to the GG (Dec 5th) and was sworn in.

  82. Bacchus

    I would be interested in Wayne’s analysis of the latest from the Indonesian government on Tony Abbott’s policies…

    This is after the President AND the foreign minister have said the policy risks the relationship between Australia and Indonesia…

  83. Michael Taylor

    Bacchus, Wayne doesn’t really come across as an intellectual giant.

    Neither an intellectual minnow, for that matter. He’s not that bright.

  84. Wayne

    Comment deleted. Racist remarks will not be tolerated. Commenter put into moderation.

    Michael Taylor.

  85. Adam Smith

    Unfortunately, people like Wayne, out of sheer ignorance or a hatred for social justice, they will always vote for the “Dark-Side”, sharing values with many people who are usually scared because they know not what they do, so they cannot conceive society’s enlightenment to save the planet earth from their own greed and destruction. They are ‘little-minded’ and serve only one purpose and some of us know what it is.

  86. Möbius Ecko

    So Wayne proved I was right and he was just making up numbers when instead of answering my request @3:35 pm for data and facts on a specific point he had raised, he instead obfuscated and went off about Rudd being sacked.

    Wayne is typical of right wingers who shoot themselves in the foot but the pain of having done so hasn’t reached their tiny brain.

  87. Adam Smith

    John Gorton’s government was accused by his fellow Liberal Party Member, Jefferson Bate MP (Husband of Dame Zara Bate, formerly married to Harold Holt PM) as “unconstitutional and illegal”. Bates accused Gorton of secrecy, running a ‘one-man’ government. Note: The same kind of accusation was made against Kevin Rudd PM by ALP Members of Parliament when they had a party spill and elected, unopposed, Julia Gillard. Nevertheless, as Liberal Party history records, on Wednesday, March 10, 1971 elected Liberal Party Members were asked to decide their leaders fate moved by John Gorton. The vote taken resulted in a 33 tie. Gorton ruled that he had a casting vote as chairman. He cast it in favour of “no confidence” thereby sacking himself out of Liberal Party Leadership and of course the Office of Prime Minister.

  88. Wayne

    Adam Smith, so you are saying Gorton had the courage to do what Dudd couldn’t, well we would expect that, Gorton had class and Dudd was a snivelling coward who slivered off under a rock and plotted against Gillard. Typical Labor behaviour really. Möbius, what a tosser, by social justice you obviously mean Labor likes penalising hard workers by raising taxes to support people who don’t like to work or who have made lifestyle choices that they can’t afford (e.g having kids and wanting tax payers to pay for child care)

  89. Wayne

    Actually, it says a lot for the people who voted for Dudd doesn’t it, brain dead morons who actively support low life snakes. You just know what type of people they are don’t you.

  90. rossleighbrisbane

    Wayne, I could write a thousand words condemning Kevin Rudd, but that’s not the point.
    You said Gorton wasn’t sacked because he resigned when he didn’t get a majority.
    All I did was point out that Rudd – using your definition – wasn’t sacked either.
    But thanks, for responding in such a calm and rational manner, completely refuting my suggestion that you’d resort to abuse when losing an argument.

    Evidence such as, “brain dead morons” and making racist comments clearly raise the level of debate.
    BTW I hear that Holden are planning to shut down by Christmas if the Abbott Government don’t respond to their extortion. How do you think your mate should respond do that one???

  91. rossleighbrisbane

    Yeah, yeah I know it’s the changes to the FBT.

    … a battle of wits with an unarmed man…

    Makes Andrew Bolt look like a mental giant. Just resorts to abuse.

    I try to argue. I’d never just attack the man.

    Hypocrisy seems to be the order of the day. Hey, you just gotta love the Liberal defence of Geoff Shaw.
    Due process. LOL
    (I think he SHOULD be accorded due process, but after Thompppson and Slipper – who was another Liberal who rorted the system)

  92. Bacchus

    Yes Michael – you were obviously correct @ 12:30 am 😉

  93. Pingback: Random Pariah | What do we do instead?

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