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Wednesday was a weird day

Angus Campbell isn’t a bad man. The vast majority of Australian men aren’t ‘bad’ men. But they still seem to think it is a woman’s fault if she gets raped.

Don’t be out after midnight. Don’t drink. Don’t be alone. Don’t look attractive. Or you risk becoming ‘prey’?

Do men feel that way? If a man goes out with his mates and gets pissed, does that make him a likely target for anal rape?

When Fraser Anning introduced a bill for governments to legalise and promote the carrying of pepper spray, mace and tasers by women for “political protection”, Sarah Hanson-Young made the point that the onus should not be on women to protect themselves but rather on men to change their behaviour. David Leyjonhelm, bless his cotton socks, told her if that was the way she felt, she should stop shagging men because we all know the rumours about her promiscuity. The High Court threw out his appeal against the ruling that said he had defamed SHY.

Australian of the Year, Grace Tame, addressed the National Press Club asking for us all to listen, learn, and change.

In a lesson to Scott Morrison on getting it real, she said you don’t need to be a father to have a conscience and being a father doesn’t mean you have one.

When asked if Morrison’s rhetoric about listening to sexual assault survivors matched his actions, she replied “Clearly not”.

And then Christian Porter gave his press conference.

It could have gone like this…

‘It is not fair that my Cabinet colleagues are subject to speculation. It is me that has been named in an allegation of a serious crime.

I can confirm that I knew the complainant when we were teenagers, and I can understand the anguish felt by her family and friends at her premature death, but I know what I have been accused of didn’t happen.

I do not want to add to their pain and I will co-operate fully with any investigation that others feel appropriate.’

But it didn’t.

Christian spent 45 minutes speaking about himself being the victim and the mental toll it was taking on him.

When Linda Reynolds cancelled her planned National Press Club address as she had booked herself into hospital due to the stress of reporting of how she handled a rape that happened in her office, well wishes poured in. Get well, Linda. It’s been tough for you.

The alleged rapist has also booked himself into hospital.

Will we listen to our Australian of the Year, and the many other women who are crying out trying to help men to understand how things are and how they must change?

It was 1975 when I won a public speaking award where the headline in the local paper said “Schoolgirl pours scorn on sex bias.”

We make haste slowly.

But we cannot give up.

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  1. Keitha Granville

    I have a better idea. When men go out they must leave their dicks at home. Problem solved.

  2. Old bloke

    ‘Angus Houston isn’t a bad man’??? Do you mean Angus Campbell? Houston was CDF as Campbell is now. Neither are bad men.

  3. Graham

    Although this is a US clip and it refers specifically to workplace sexual harassment there are some strong messages in it about how all we men should behave.

    And if you have not seen the tea video watch it and pass it on to your kids:

  4. Margot Korbell

    Breaking news from The Australian.

    Defence Minister Linda Reynolds called Brittany Higgins a ‘lying cow
    MARCH 3, 2021
    Defence Minister Linda Reynolds referred to Brittany Higgins as a “lying cow” in front of staff members, after her former media adviser went public about an alleged rape in Parliament House.
    Senator Reynolds made the comment in the open part of her office on February 15 and it was heard by several staff members, some of whom are public servants on secondment from the Department of Defence.
    The allegation will put renewed pressure on Senator Reynolds, who is on medical leave until next week, as some of her parliamentary colleagues and defence industry figures question whether she should remain in her portfolio.

  5. Michael Taylor

    Margot, that is repulsive. But typical of this disgraceful mob of pigs.

  6. B Sullivan

    As a private citizen Christian Porter is entitled to the presumption of innocence in the absence of proof of guilt. Since the accusations against him wont be tested in a court of law he can not be cleared of suspicion. The holder of the public office of Attorney General has to be above suspicion. If Porter refuses to resign, Scott Morrison has a public duty to remove him, regrettably perhaps, but necessary for the sake of public trust in a legal system that appears to be powerless to resolve the issue.

    Here’s a thought. Isn’t it the Attorney General’s power to decide whether or not a prosecution against Christian Porter proceeds? I guess it’s up to Michaelia Cash now. But isn’t she suspected of tipping off the media about a police raid on the ACTU?

  7. New England Cocky

    Have you noticed that the two ”victim” Liarbal Ministers get very weepy when they are required to justify their actions that could quite reasonably terminate their political careers?

    Reynolds sobbed and pleaded for a grace period before abandoning her civic role for a nice safe hospital bed, and ”miraculously” recovered after the passing of the luncheon where she would face a barrage of unsympathetic Australian journalists’ questions.

    Porter sobbed on camera and did not deny the rape allegation (as I heard the television broadcast).

    Now this common reaction in my too long experience in schoolyards is the same as the First XV Captain getting busted smoking & drinking in the change rooms after a match. He did it ….. and suddenly it dawns that his cherished career as captain is over, gone,
    finished ….. and he is crying for his own loss, not the loss for the team.

    As one lawyer has already noted, ”If I was to suggest that something did not happen because my client does not remember, I would be reminded by the bench that saying so supports the prosecution case.”

    When you have members of the legal fraternity rejecting the responses of the Federal Attorney General then their tenure has effectively ended ….. except when Scummo of the iPA would lose his one seat working majority in the Australian Parliament.

    A fish rots from the head.

  8. Kaye Lee

    Thank you for correcting my Anguses.

  9. Terence Mills

    Interesting to note how today significant government resources are all going into shutting down the Porter issue when so many questions remain unanswered.

    The police have shut down inquiries without interviewing Porter.

    Even The Conversation has shut down comment on three articles dealing with the Porter issue : https://theconversation.com/au

    We are now seeing how all that money going into media advisers and manipulators within this government is flexing its muscle.

  10. Michael Taylor

    Speaking of Anguses, if one more person asks me if I’m related to Angus Taylor I will scream.

  11. Kaye Lee

    This idea that the police are the appropriate people to investigate, that the person has a right to the presumption of innocence, that the denial means the matter is over and done with, that it would be unfair to destroy someone’s career because of allegations, didn’t seem to apply with Peter Slipper and Julia Gillard.

  12. Rossleigh

    Yes, Kaye Lee, and why weren’t the police appropriate to investigate Julia Gillard? Why did she need to front a Royal Commission to answer questions? And further back we had Carmen Lawrence fronting a Royal Commission.
    In fact the Liberals talking point that it’s the police and only the police who ever investigate any potential crime over at the slightest scrutiny. Imagine if it were the police investigating all the corruption in Queensland that the Fitzgerald Inquiry discovered?

  13. Harry Lime

    Keitha,that’s what my wife of 54 years said to me 55 years ago.Anyway, what about if you need to pee?

  14. Terence Mills

    I heard on SKY last night that if there was to be an enquiry into the Porter issue then it should include the Bill Shorten allegations (which incidentally were fully investigated by the police including interviews with Shorten before the allegation was dismissed).

  15. Michael Taylor

    Keitha, too many damn men think their brains are in their dicks.

    (Autocorrect tried to change it to ducks 😳)

  16. Michael Taylor

    Terry, the govt tried the “Look over there!” (about Shorten) the other day and it fell flat.

    That Sky brought up the same “Look over there!” is because they can’t find anything that compares to Porter’s alleged crime. I’m sure they’ve spent the week trying to dig up anything from their Dirt File but came up zilch. Regardless, I wouldn’t be surprised if Shorten is their main talking point over the coming weeks.

  17. Graham


    As one of the panelists on last night’s The Drum pointed out – most rapes are not committed by strangers abducting you in the street in the middle of the night and dragging you into some fetid alley (as Angus seems to think) but by men you know and in your home.

  18. Kaye Lee

    There was an interesting line of questioning in the press conference…..

    Reporter: Have you ever been the subject of any other complaints of this nature? Are you aware of any other women in your past who could make similar allegations?

    Mr Porter: No. No to both of those questions.

    Reporter: Have you or anyone on your behalf ever asked someone to sign a non-disclosure agreement?

    Mr Porter: No.

    Ima guessing those questions didn’t come from nowhere.

  19. Joanna Parish

    Are we all noting the demise of this national government’s majority, and their dilemma of choosing when to hold an election? A Cabinet re-shuffle will appear as a defeat of the patriarchal attitudes held and a leadership spill could realign the power within the coalition or divert attention? In a fortnight when the Parliament resumes could an alignment of Independents with one Green MHR and Labor vote to bring the Coalition down?
    Would the current Governor-General then ask Labor to form Government?

    Or could the Liberal and National politicians, our national government, seek to reform their attitudes on rape, propose the amendments put forward by their appointed Sex Discrimination Commissioner to parliament, and hold a public review into sexually predatory behaviour within Parliament House, to aim to develop a code of practice?

  20. wam

    Thanks, kaye, for such a summary that puts the lie to ‘porter’s pain’ manufactured to avoid or mitigate the 4 corners experience, the memory of Margot and the suspicion that he is a liar. What about the other boys in on the ironing have they been interviewed?? ps Keitha, when men young and old go out the first thing packed is the dick. Some men and women are brought up to believe there are women to marry and women to fuck. Confusion rules but the majority of us are taught to respect all women not just some. When out drinking and a chance arrives the first move is in the dick. Heard of blue balls or lover’s balls(epididymal hypertension)? Mental and physical fixation of sperm dumping is natural. The large number of old men and young breeding brides is obvious and highly visible. 65 years ago the bottom line was fear but times have changed and fear, if it ever was viable is no longer an option. The task of educating the educators is formidable. Where and how to begin the education process is the question. Frydenberg is talking about other rape cases with no call to step down. Conveniently forgetting how 4 corners exposed porter’s attitude to women and margot showed porter’s attitude to himself.

  21. Kaye Lee


    Reporter: So Mr Porter, what do you know about efforts to remove details of your debating trip in 1988 from Wikipedia?

    Mr Porter: I have never heard of such a thing. I did not know that debating trips were on Wikipedia. Can I just say these conspiracy theories that are just everywhere, including about the circumstances of this poor girl’s death, I mean it’s just absolutely wild.

    It’s no conspiracy theory mate. I was watching all mention of it being erased. The things I read in the morning disappeared. I saw it happen – wikipedia, school magazine etc.

  22. Rossleigh

    As I wrote on Twitter: Would you be happy if a patient or a student made a complaint to the police but died before a formal statement, would you expect the medical board or the principal to say that the police are the only people who can investigate so the person should be presumed innocent and able to continue their normal duties without any investigation?

  23. Henry Rodrigues

    And just think, that this guy is the nation’s highest law enforcement officer. If this is not bizarre, what is..

  24. Florence Howarth

    I wonder if the evidence would be admissible in a civil court procedure.

  25. Michael Taylor

    I totally dislike the victim’s dead so let’s all move on attitude. This could set so many precedents.

    Kaye, my jaw dropped when he denied any knowledge of the Wikipedia edits. It may as well have been a press conference with Sergeant Schultz.

  26. Harry Lime

    To add insult to injury,the original lying bastard,.John Winston Howard aka ‘The Lying Rodent’ has enthusiastically endorsed the current major lying bastard as well as Porkies Porter’s excellent handling of ‘a difficult situation’.Who needs enemies when you have friends like little Johnnie?I wonder if he consulted the penguin first…………?

  27. Michael Taylor

    Good question, Florence. It possibly could be, but I’m not sure how it would work with ‘posthumous evidence’.

  28. Dave G.

    I have heard that our gaols are full of people who “didn’t do it.”

  29. Michael Taylor

    Harry, with Howard it’s all about ‘playing politics’. Forget the alleged crime, let’s just judge the man on how he handled the allegations.

  30. Kronomex

    Porter: ““My guess is that if I were to resign, and that set a new standard, well, there wouldn’t be much need for an attorney-general anyway, because there would be no rule of law left to protect in this country. So I will not be part of letting that happen.””


    What he meant to say at this part, “…no rule of law…” was “…no rule of Liberal…”
    His, and the rest of the LNP’s (Yes, I include the National’s by way of association because otherwise they would just be a fringe party federally if thay had not joined the Libs.) monolithic arrogance and born-to-rule thinking is a sight to behold. Will we see them gone at the next election? As an answer all I will say is, “We are completely screwed.”

  31. Kaye Lee

    Just wondering, if I asked someone to sign a non-disclosure agreement and then publicly stated that I hadn’t, would it release that person from the agreement?

  32. Margot

    It’s all the ABC’s fault!!

    There has ‘never been a worse time’ to get into politics
    Sky News Political Editor Andrew Clennell says there has “never been a worse time” to get into politics.

    Morrison stands by his man.

    PoliticsNow: Scott Morrison calls for ‘rule of law’ over Christian Porter claims
    MARCH 4, 2021
    Mr Morrison said he was pleased Mr Porter was taking leave to seek professional treatment for his mental health.
    “He’s getting that support, as well as the support of his colleagues, as he takes that time. I’m looking forward to him returning to his duties once that period of leave is completed,” he said.

    Just like all the support victims get, eh Morrison?

    If you didn’t watch The Drum last night I would highly recommend you watch it on catch up.

    We had some deep discussions about the big stories of recent days. Hear more from Amy and the rest of our panel in the full episode: https://bit.ly/3bc6Pua.
    ABC The Drum @ABCthedrum

  33. Kaye Lee

    Angus Campbell has released a statement.

    “I am aware that my comments have been interpreted by some in a way that I did not intend.
    There is never an excuse for perpetrating sexual assault or sexual harassment and the perpetrator is always to blame.”

    Hopefully we are slowly getting through that words matter.

  34. Michael Taylor

    Kaye at 11:27, I can’t see it happening, but if a Stat Dec was signed then it might be looked at. It could also be argued that the non-disclosure agreement was signed under pressure, or forced in to signing it. Then they could have a case.

    Don’t take my word though; I’m only looking at it logically. But sometimes logic and the law are incompatible.

    But I can’t see you doing that. You’re too nice. 😀

  35. DrakeN

    Kaye, there is much in what you say, but as wam points out, it is in the biology of the human ape for males to be sexually aggressive, both toward females and towards those percieved as being in competition for the ‘favours’ of a particular woman.
    To pretend that such behaviour can be totally suppressed is fallacious; a bit like telling women that they must not menstruate.
    It has long been my contention that human biological evolution is many millenia in arrears of our technical progress and that it is not homologous within society; some folk are significantly more evolved than others.

    “If a man goes out with his mates and gets pissed, does that make him a likely target for anal rape?”
    It is not unheard of: “Rum, Bum and ‘Baccy” were staples in the days of ‘tall ships’, likewise young ‘Cabin boys’.
    There is also the matter of “men of the cloth” whose unnatural celebacy creates conflicts in the human beast leading to horrible outcomes: The same could be said of the forced monogamy with which the same religious influences have indoctrinated our society.
    We like to persuade ourselves that we are of an entirely order to the “beasts of the field” but that really is arrogant self delusion.
    Male sexual aggressiveness in the species homo sapiens sapiens is unlikely to devolve in my lifetime.

    On a lighter note:
    “Thank you for correcting my Anguses.”
    Nothing to beef about there 😉

  36. Kaye Lee

    Sexual attraction may be difficult to control. Sexual aggression is not. It’s about consent. Respecting that your partner must be willing and able to give that consent. Luckily, ejaculation can be achieved without having to force anyone else to be involved.

    To compare it to menstruation is ridiculous. I can’t choose whether to menstruate or not. It isn’t a behaviour I can control. Sexual aggression is something that CAN and MUST be controlled.

  37. Kronomex

    “On a lighter note:
    “Thank you for correcting my Anguses.”
    Nothing to beef about there 😉”

    Do you steak your reputation on that?

  38. jamie

    Hey Kaye Lee: didja screenshoot that wiki page before and after?? has anybody? sleuth sleuth!! these chumps aint that ‘bright’ just vile!!! they will fall big time!!

  39. Margot

    What I have learned from Liberal politicians and the media about the Porter and the rape allegations about him.

    Porter is gutsy.

    Dutton praises Porter’s ‘gutsy’ appearance
    Mr Dutton described Mr Porter’s public appearance as “gutsy.”
    “To watch him stand up there and go through that vilification even with some of those journalists in the room who were just baying for blood, I thought his performance was quite remarkable,” Mr Dutton told 2GB radio

    Complainant is mentally ill so of course you can’t take her accusations seriously!

    Andrew Bolt
    A mentally ill woman accused Attorney General Christian Porter of raping her 33 years ago,  and then killed herself.
    (Paywalled article)

    Quentin Dempster @QuentinDempster
    “Mentally ill woman made rape allegation against Porter then killed herself”. @DailyTelegraph’s Andrew Bolt. Regret to observe elements of NewsC now attacking complainant’s credibility. Rupert will turn this into “woke orthodoxy” to protect his government. Trial by media indeed.

    Body language “expert” says Porter’s body language shows his anguish is genuine.

    ‘Heavy toll’: What Porter’s body language revealed

    Christian Porter’s body language during his media conference showed his mental anguish over the rape allegations, expert say.
    Zoe Smith
    Christian Porter’s emotional denial over claims of the alleged rape of a young woman in 1988 showed that he was genuinely pained, body language experts say……
    “Here was a man barely holding himself together and yet more pleading than defensive in his approach.

    There is now a threat of trial by social media becoming the new norm. Of course it is only an issue if one of their own is involved.

    Christian Porter denies historic rape allegation against him
    James Morrow
    An emotional and at times nearly tearful Christian Porter warned that a “new normal” of trial by social media was a threat to fairness and due process in Australia as he strenuously denied historical rape allegations against him.

    Watch out, watch out if you require Liberal ministers to be accountable then you are threatening liberal democracies.

    Squizz @SquizzSTK
    Morrison is off on a tangent when asked simple questions about an inquiry into the Christian Porter matter.
    By the end liberal democracies were under threat, before he staggering off towards a wood/dirt pile.
    Watch the reaction in the background at 1:03.

    And of course if your behaviour is to be scrutinised why on earth would you want to enter politics.

    There has ‘never been a worse time’ to get into politics
    Sky News Political Editor Andrew Clennell says there has “never been a worse time” to get into politics.

    And that my friend is only some of the stuff that is going around the traps today.

  40. leefe


    Funny how so many men can control themselves when there are witnesses, but are somehow overcome by their desire when presented with a vulnerable target.

    “Biology made me do it” is garbage. If you can not rape someone when there are people around who might stop you, you can also not rape when they aren’t there.

    And if not … well, the problem is the rapists, not the victims so, given that the vast majority of rapes are committed by men, it’s time to make sure they are rendered harmless. Are you going to be amongst the first to volunteer for the cattle prod in your jocks?

  41. Ian

    I believe the wikipedia of porter is blocked for alterations until Sept 2021, is this until after the next election so ” “important” factual information cannot be updated before people vote

  42. DrakeN

    leefe, I did not say that “Biology made…” anyone do anything. Likewise I am not blaming the victim. I am merely pointing out that male sexual aggression is biologically imprinted in a lot of men. Kaye, to say that sexual aggression can be controlled is true – for most men, it can be controlled but doing so runs against the laws of nature. So much of what humanity does is contrary to nature’s intention, take industrial pollution, climate change, flying in aircraft etc. likewise the biolologic imperative for a male to spread his DNA as far and as wide as he is able. Aggression of all kinds needs controlling in a civilised society, which we make claim to living in, but you cannot eliminate the human propensity for aggressiveness whether male or female. You can of course control menstuation by chemical means and/or sterilisation but that has consequences of its own, and in any case I was merely pointing out the biology, not the morality nor its desirability. As a woman you can have no concept of the intensity of masculine desire so you are eminently unqualified to pontificate on that subject, but aside from that I agree that controlling its effects are necessary in the kind of society that we live in. Like all things in life, it is not all black and white, simple, nor easily addressed and to assert that it is so is nonsensical. PS. I have never been sexually demanding of anyone, always being a believer in mutual consent. It would have been a lot easier for me if my wife had not sought medical treatment in order to concieve, without my consent or knowledge, a third and fourth child – though the fourth did not ultimately eventuate.

  43. DrakeN

    The paragrphing in this last posting disappeared in the editing.

  44. David Evans

    Give it up morrison, your bluff, bluster,bullshit and billions isn’t working, get rid of porter, reynolds, coleman then follow ’em out the door. Not hard, even for the worst misleader in Australias history. Just name the date, It’s Over. ….What do you think jen?

  45. Henry Rodrigues

    “Its not the right time to enter politics”

    The comments by the right wing asreholes are just what one expects but doesn’t it occur to these suckholes that its Never Ever the Right time to rape someone ?

    Dutton, Bolt, Morrow Clenell Zoe Smith should pay someone to fuck them and then see how it feels.

  46. jamie

    Michael Corleone : Take her upstairs. Get her a doctor.

    [Michael’s bodyguards grab Connie and pull her out of the office]

    Michael Corleone : [to Kay] She’s hysterical.

    Kay Adams : Is it true?

    Michael Corleone : Don’t ask me about my business, Kay.

    Kay Adams : Is it true?

    Michael Corleone : Don’t ask me about my business…

    Kay Adams : No…

    Michael Corleone : [slams the desk] ENOUGH!

    Und das:

    have a nice day and . . .

    always blame the victim . . . the one that can’t talk anymore . . . how convenient CP?

  47. leefe


    Of course I have no idea of the “intensity of masculine desire” … not from the inside, that is. From the outside, as a female human, I have been made aware all too often. I have never tried to say I do understand it; I’m saying I don’t care. I’m saying it’s irrelevant.
    Sexual assault almost never occurs in front of potentially disapproving witnesses. That shows that control is possible in virtually all humans.
    Assault is a choice. Force is a choice. Compulsion is a choice. Coercion is a choice. And if there weren’t always voices trying to minimise or deflect instead of holding people to account, those choices would be made far less frequently.

  48. Kaye Lee

    ” As a woman you can have no concept of the intensity of masculine desire so you are eminently unqualified to pontificate on that subject,”

    I am not pontificating on what men desire. I am saying they have no right to fulfill their desires by aggressively inflicting themselves on unwilling participants.

    And if we want to talk chemicals to control menstruation, a bodily function that involves no-one else, I believe there are also chemicals that can be used to control sexual desire. If a man can’t understand that women and children are not theirs to use to fulfill their desire, then they need help.

    leefe’s point is very valid.

  49. Vikingduk

    Yes, as simple as that — choice. No one needs to be told don’t look attractive, don’t be out too late, don’t have a drink. Men, people, just simply need to show some responsibility, to not view women as prey, show some respect. Man’s role is not that of the conqueror, to not use physical or emotional strength to dominate, to subjugate but rather as a protector, to use that force in a positive manner. Know right from wrong. Protect the children, not rape and abuse, protect the women, not rape and abuse, protect each other. Simple, really. Now the real conversation needs to start, what sort of society do we desire, respect women as people, respect different colours, different religions. Equality is what is demanded.

  50. Kaye Lee


    I should add, I respect your opinion on things and appreciate your regular input. On this, I vehemently disagree. But I am reading and considering what you are writing. I hope you are doing likewise. We need to make change.

  51. Jon Chesterson


    These men are frauds and liars, as we already know. What’s worse, Porter is an alleged rapist who expects to get off ‘Scott free’ (yup pun and motive intended) because his alleged victim is already dead. Worse than that, he is the top legal executive in the country – The Attorney General. Under no circumstances should he be permitted to remain in office.

    He, above all should realise what is required here in the absence of a criminal investigation, which does not mean he is innocent, whether presumption of such is rule of law or not. There is civil law, public trust and a political process, due process too. He and Morrison would know that anyone else in the country (you and I) would be stood down and suspended while their employer, HR investigates the matter. Under such circumstances proof of guilt is not required. All that is determined when the facts are established and evaluated is the balance of probability.

    So we ask ourselves why does Morrison and Porter himself think he is immune to investigation, from stepping aside and why do they both try to coerce us into thinking he is innocent and above the law and regular civil procedures? The only answers to explain that – Porter’s secret guilt, lack of trust over due process and the belief that men in power like these two arrogant Liberals are entitled to interpret the law themselves or are above it, that for them rape is a matter of opinion not fact or moral responsibility, either that or part of the secondary victimisation cycle.

    No doubt in my mind, Porter has form (Four Corner’s), and both men have always got what they wanted, no matter how abusive or corrupt. Why do men like this always think they can get away with it, the world over. And what do they give us -‘presumption of innocence’, till found guilty, in the knowledge there won’t even be an investigation!

    Well hello, this is Australia not Russia, America, Myanmar, North Korea or Belarus. We have a rule of law and it is not up to Morrison or Porter to interpret it or determine when and where it does not apply, especially when they are the subject of the allegations and in conflict of interest by such close association and opportunity to gain, and clearly judgment, impartiality utterly compromised. Wouldn’t be permitted anywhere else in the country, so why in the highest house in the land?

  52. DrakeN

    Indeed, Kaye, much change is needed, especially in the manner in which the general population is mislead and indoctrinated by the religious, commercial and political interests which have distorted the concept of humanity and societies over millenia.
    It goes much, much deeper than the simple everyday behaviours which people exhibit.
    Remember too, that mens’ desires are a product of hormonal activities within their bodies as much as within the female reproductive processes. We are all ‘victims’ of nature’s whims.

  53. DrakeN

    No, Vikingduk, it is not simply a matter of choice, no more than choosing the colour of one’s eyes. But it is easy to observe physical attributes, but rather more difficult to see into the emotions and mental states of people. One of the problems in discussing these matters is the very trap that you have fallen into in categorising men as if they are identical clones of each other: They are not, even my two domestic cats display distinctive personal and physical individual characteristics. Likewise women; I have known many fine and worthy women just as a few have demonstated characteristics which can only be described as psychopathic and fundamentally evil.

  54. Kaye Lee

    I completely disagree. The colour of ones eyes is controlled by your genotype. Your sexual behaviour IS a choice, controlled by YOU.

    Do you look at your mother or your sister or your daughter and feel uncontrollable sexual urges? If not, why not? Because you CAN condition yourself to see women as something other than an object of sexual desire.

    Of course individuals are different. But that is not what you have been arguing. You have talked about men collectively and their seemingly uncontrollable desires when we are having a discussion about unwanted sexual contact.

    And yes, there are good and bad men and women. That’s also not what we are discussing when we are talking about the necessity of confirming consent before any sexual interaction.

  55. Michael Taylor

    If ever there was a week when we needed to walk in the shoes of those who have suffered more than us, then this is surely the week. True, we should have done it a hundred years ago, but we didn’t so the onus has been thrust onto us. Now.

    I’m putting on those shoes.

  56. paul walter

    And while we are talking about media scum, what might we think of a female cabinet minister who calls a rape victim a “lying cow”?

  57. leefe


    Can you not distinguish between what one feels and what one does? The first is not a choice, the other is.

    Or do you genuinely have so low an opinion of men that you consider them to be nothing more than slavering beasts, always at the mercy of their most basic impulses?

  58. Vikingduk

    DrakeN, well mate, I don’t agree. I’ve known mongrel bastards, worked with mongrel bastards and been a mongrel bastard and everything comes down to choice. Well aware no two people are the same but am of the opinion some people (many people?) know what’s right in their hearts. A person can choose to dominate, to take or not. Yep, many cases where women have aided men in the abuse of other people. Psychopaths, sociopaths, damaged by their own experiences of abuse, pure evil?

    Cruelty becomes the norm in this decadent, dysfunctional society we have created, we have very little to be proud of as a race, choosing greed, choosing abuse, choosing viciousness, choosing hate.

    We must learn to live in equality, to respect each other. Currently, not only do we trash each other, we are doing a damn fine job trashing the planet. If we can’t learn to work cooperatively, if we don’t choose a very different path, we will achieve our aim of destruction of our home, the only planet we have. What do you choose?

  59. DrakeN

    “Cruelty becomes the norm in this decadent, dysfunctional society we have created, we have very little to be proud of as a race, choosing greed, choosing abuse, choosing viciousness, choosing hate.”

    In the main, Vikingduk, I heartily agree with you, but there are always exceptions to every generality – many of whom go unrecognised unfortunately.
    Those who “…know what’s right in their hearts.” and take action on that knowledge are relatively few.

    “We must learn to live in equality, to respect each other.” That would be nice should it happen, but there is no evidence, historically nor current that that is communally generalised behaviour.

    “What do you choose?” Well, I chose to “do the right thing” wherever I can, generally the diametric opposite of the commercial, political and religious activities of the society which you described above. It makes me a bit of a pariah at times when I speak up against what I see as injustice, deviousness, lack of caring and selfishness. My local Federal MHR refuses to acknowledge my communications!
    It also means that I have become semi-reclusive, since the stress of suppressed anger is overwhelming at times.

  60. DrakeN

    @ Paul Walter,
    …being a nasty, fundamentally evil bastard/bitch is a prerequisite for selection cabinet minister in this government.
    Taking ‘mental health’ leave should be permanent status for this crowd of sociopathic psychopaths.

    The “Cruelty becomes the norm in this decadent, dysfunctional society we have created, we have very little to be proud of as a race, choosing greed, choosing abuse, choosing viciousness, choosing hate.” to which Vikingduk refers is a fundamental qualification for right-wing politics.

  61. DrakeN

    Michael Taylor @March 4, 2021 at 10:56 pm

    A fine sentiment, Michael, but not one universally shared.

    Robbing the poor, sick and injured seems to be a more general choice across all strata of society.

  62. DrakeN

    Kaye Lee @ March 4, 2021 at 9:26 pm

    Kaye, I am not going to debate this topic further with you for, if you believe that I am saying that, then you internal biases are not reconcilable with rational debate on this topic.
    Such a knee-jerk response does you no credit in my view.
    This is a complex issue of human evolution which does not revolve solely around a matter of choice.

  63. DrakeN

    leefe @ March 5, 2021 at 7:08 am

    I have a very realistic approach to the reality that humans are merely slightly more developed apes.
    That development is not homogenous across the species – individuals vary greatly, but in the main we are driven by very primitive motives.
    The failure to accept that reality is a fundamental flaw in most debate on societal matters resulting in superficial arguments such as this.

  64. leefe


    Again, you cannot control or choose to whom you are attracted. You CAN control whether you act on that attraction.

    You can’t have it both ways.
    Either men are, in general, predators who require external measures of control, or they are able to control themselves. If they can control themselves, we have to insist that they do so, not blather on with Social Darwinist excuses for their behaviour..

  65. Margot

    Sammy J explains it all.

    Sammy plays a round of political limbo | Sammy J (S4 Ep3)
    Mar 4, 2021

  66. DrakeN

    @ leefe: “You CAN control whether you act on that attraction.”

    Indeed, I can – and do, but many cannot.
    Mental institutions are filled with the extreme cases of that truth.
    It seems that you believe that the whole of humanity is similar to yourself – it most certainly is not.

  67. DrakeN

    Margot – that really is beautiful 😉

  68. Consume Less

    Never seen Sammy before. Thanks Margot, that was a clever piece.

  69. leefe

    And there you go throwing mentally ill people under the bus.

    No Drake, I don’t think everyone else is like me and it would be best if you didn’t make assumptions about what I do think because the odds of you getting anywhere near the mark are so remote they’re virtually in another galaxy.

    Mental illness does not make you a rapist. Thinking that what you want is more important than another person is what does it. Deciding to rape someone is what does it.

    Why is it so hard for you to accept that rape is a deliberate decision made by people? Not just sometimes, but always. Can you even accept the sometimes? You are so insistent with this “men can’t control it” line that (to me at least) you sound desperate.

  70. Zathras

    The question remains about Porter being a “fit and proper person” to act as a representative in Parliament until he can be cleared by some sort of formal inquiry.

    The rule of law applies to everyone regardless but the traditions of the Westminster System are more stringent and have resulted in Ministers standing aside for far lesser accusations, not to mention the endless braying of the current Government when on the Opposition benches.

    I suppose he should be thankful that he didn’t buy watches for members of his staff to enrage the PM.

    Otherwise, this stance confirms the moral and financial corruption of this rabble seems limitless.

  71. Kaye Lee

    For me, this has gone beyond the sordid disclosures of the last few weeks. It’s not as if these are isolated incidents. We women live them daily.


    You rightly tell me that I cannot understand how a man feels. You then tell me that my “internal biases are not reconcilable with rational debate on this topic.” Does that mean I must be quiet whilst a man explains men’s desires to me but when I try to talk about a woman’s perspective about having that desire thrust upon her unwillingly, aggressively, it’s a ” knee-jerk reaction”?


    That shouldn’t be a “debate”!

  72. Matters Not

    Re Porter, Trump et al and all that’s happened of recent times. Once upon a time, government(s) operated according to a set of well defined rules PLUS a whole host of conventions (defined in terms of unwritten understandings, universally understood but not legally enforceable – because there was no need – everyone knew what proper behavior looked like and acted accordingly). But that was yesterday!

    In the US, Trump proceeded on the basis of whatever he could get away with. – forever pushing not only the legal boundaries, but also disregarding the sacred principles of good government manifest via checks and balances, separation of powers etc and, importantly, also the conventions. In so doing, he exposed some basic weaknesses in the much venerated US Constitution.

    In Australia, and elsewhere including the US, politics has been reduced to a numbers game. If you have the numbers, then it’s a case of winner take all. Politically, with the numbers, you can do what you like. Trump was impeached (in the House) because he didn’t have the numbers (twice) but he escaped conviction (twice) because he did have the numbers where it mattered. Clearly, there was no deep philosophic discussion involving ethical evaluation of right versus wrong or good versus bad let alone legal arguments. No, it became a matter of simple arithmetic. Either you have the numbers or you don’t.

    It’s also the numbers that permit Porter to retain his AG position. Conventions of ministerial responsibility etc are now in the historical dustbin. The Conservatives are now the Radicals. The irony of it all. And it’s all down to simple arithmetic.

  73. Matters Not

    Let’s fact it, men are animals – particularly when defined in terms of a multicellular body, specialized sense organs, voluntary movement, responses to factors in the environment and the ability to acquire and digest food. But then again – so are females.

    Nevertheless, both men and women (sometimes known as humans) can be much more than animals. Yes people make choices but sometimes remain unaware that they had a viable choice (realistic or otherwise). That’s where education should come in. But often doesn’t.

    It’s sometimes argued that humans (as distinct from other animals) can imagine or foresee the consequences of their actions. Can put themselves in the position of the other. Can even imagine their own death. When they’re no longer here. It’s perhaps why we can talk of morality.

  74. Kaye Lee

    Malcolm Farr:

    “Linking Christian Porter’s fate to the global survival of liberal democracy might have been a stretch.”

  75. leefe

    ” … men are animals … so are females …”

    Female whats? Female men? Female humans? … if only there was a word for “female human” …

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