If you want evidence-based decision making then you need to actually consider the evidence

April 19, 2017
Written by: Kaye Lee
42 Replies

Why is the government considering giving Adani a billion dollars? According to Richard Denniss, it’s a muscle-flexing exercise for Barnaby’s boys.

“Subsidising the world’s largest export coal mine at a time of declining world demand for coal…has become a way to prove the Nats can get things built and to show their rivals in the Coalition that the junior partner has some real power.”

Barnaby concedes that they might cop “some flak” from environmentalists whilst completely ignoring the concerns from other coal producers.

Glencore’s head of Australian coal said in 2015 that “bringing on additional tonnes with the aid of taxpayer money would materially increase the risk to existing coal operations”.

Even the former Coalition resources minister, Ian Macfarlane, now the head of the Queensland Minerals Council, admits that some mining companies are opposed to Adani’s subsidies, stating “it’s a competitive world and some of our members see it as giving an advantage to one of their competitors”.

Thankfully, the decision on whether to give Adani the money is not up to Barnaby or his former staffer and cheerleader for coal, Matt Canavan. In order to be eligible for a ‘loan’ from the Northern Australia Investment Facility, the project must be uncommercial. NAIF’s rules require it to only lend to projects that “would not otherwise have received sufficient financing from other financiers”.

But the man running the Carmichael project for Adani, Jeyakumar Janakaraj, told a CEDA function a few weeks ago that they have plenty of financing options including selling off 49% of the Abbott Point port.

“There is a lot of sources of funds which are available to Adani and we will use these shareholder options as and when required. This project will get funded, this project will see execution this year.”

This reinforced what Adani spokesman Ron Watson said late last year when speaking about Adani’s application to NAIF for funding for the railway.

“It’s not critical. We have obviously applied for it because it’s available,” he told Fairfax Media. “This is something that governments of all political persuasions have done in the past and I assume will do in the future. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’s make or break for the project.”

So how to get subsidies for a project that claims it doesn’t need them? Richard Denniss revealed Barnaby’s cunning idea.

Joyce’s solution is to argue that while the mine will be profitable, the monopoly railway line that would connect the coal mine to the port will not be commercial and, in turn, that the railway line will be eligible for a NAIF subsidy. Perhaps a court will have to decide if the monopoly railway between a profitable mine and a healthy world market could ever be considered “uncommercial”.

Adani’s political support, at state and federal level, is driven by the supposed number of jobs that will be created by the project.

Adani claims that 8291 jobs will be created in construction, while there will be 11,834 operational jobs, which is in stark contrast to the testimony given by their own economic advisers ACIL Allen who caused a stir in 2015 when they told Queensland’s Land Court that just 1464 direct and indirect jobs would be created with only 483 of those jobs in the Local MIW Region.

Adani has insisted that those comments were in relation to the mine only, not the other parts of the project like the railway and the port, but the report clearly states that they are modelling “the economic impacts of the Carmichael coal mine and rail project (the Project) proposed by Adani Mining Pty Ltd (Adani).”

“The Carmichael mine is to be located in the Galilee Basin, in Queensland, with the coal to be transported by rail to the Port of Abbot Point. This report does not consider the economic impact of any expansion of the port at Abbot Point. My understanding is that this is a separate project subject to different commercial considerations from the Carmichael Project.”

According to the EIS for the Abbott Point port expansion, it will create between 82 and 164 direct and indirect jobs for less than a year of construction with ongoing employment of 1 direct job and 1.1 indirect jobs into the future.

Since those reports were produced, Adani have significantly scaled back the first phase of the mine.

“The first phase obviously will be very small, we have a 25-million-tonne open-pit mine to run,” Janakaraj said.

Carmichael’s smaller scale will reduce the power challenges in the near term, with the first stage small enough to be powered by diesel generators.

This might put a dint in Clive Palmer’s hunt for public money from the Clean Energy Finance Corporation to fund a $1.25 billion coal-fired power station and carbon capture and storage facility linked to his Galilee Basin China First project, which has not yet started.

Also relevant to the discussion is the fact that Indian coal imports fell 22 per cent in January 2017 year on year. This is now the second financial year in a row of decline and the rate is accelerating.

When asked what he hoped Adani would deliver for Queensland, the state’s Natural Resources Minister Anthony Lynham suggested jobs were a bigger priority than royalty flows.

“The main thing is obviously the jobs it will deliver to the state, both in construction and in long-term development of the Galillee Basin, there is no doubt about that, it is the jobs we are focused on,” he said.

Perhaps he is unaware of Janakaraj’s boasting to shareholders about his true intentions.

“We will be utilizing at least fourty-five 400-tonne driverless trucks. All the vehicles will be capable of automation. When we ramp up the mine, everything will be autonomous from mine to port. In our eyes, this is the mine of the future.”

When Malcolm Turnbull challenged for the leadership, he said “There must be an end to policy on the run and captain’s calls. We need to be truly consultative with colleagues, members of Parliament, senators and the wider public. We need an open government, an open government that recognises that there is an enormous sum of wisdom both within our colleagues in this building and, of course, further afield.”

If Gina’s boy Barnaby wins this one, we will know that evidence-based decision making is well and truly dead in Australia and that the man who said in 2010 “A zero emission future … is absolutely essential if we are to leave a safe planet to our children and the generations that come after them” is now totally impotent.

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David BruceApril 19, 2017 at 10:41 am

I think the evidence is in, the inmates are running the asylum!

KronomexApril 19, 2017 at 10:44 am

The evidence is that the more money you give the LNP the less oversight there is going to be and the more often you’ll get what you want.

Peter FApril 19, 2017 at 11:06 am

At least one Coalition minister has said that ‘once it is up and running’ others will come on board. Gina? Of course. If you want to know who is really meant to benefit, look no further.

diannaartApril 19, 2017 at 11:07 am

1. Adani’s fossil fuel investment is only eligible for the $ if project is not financial? Nothing about the future for coal, its just about raising the cash?

NAIF’s rules require it to only lend to projects that “would not otherwise have received sufficient financing from other financiers

2. But, this is not a problem because there is plenty of investment funding around to make the project financially viable?

“There is a lot of sources of funds which are available to Adani and we will use these shareholder options as and when required. This project will get funded, this project will see execution this year.”

Did the greedy have a bypass on value for money? I have often pondered this short term thinking of those who claim to be conservative. If one is cautious (conservative) should not there be a lot more consideration of evidence than knee-jerk grabs for short term gain?

Explains why so-called conservative governments tend towards destruction rather than building; faster results but doesn’t explain how this behaviour still claims to be under the umbrella of “conservative”.

Dear Barnaby, in future, please refer to yourself and your cronies what you truly are; greedy, self-obsessed fascists.

Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 11:44 am

There is some breaking of the Coalition ranks on this issue (as there seems to be on everything)

Sarah Henderson, who holds the marginal Victorian seat of Corangamite, has become the second Liberal MP to raise concern about Adani receiving a public loan, after Queenslander Bert van Manen said the rail line should not be in the hands of one company.

Following a meeting with representatives from GetUp, Ms Henderson wrote to the activist group outlining her concerns and saying she had contacted Mr Canavan over them.

“I too share your concerns on commercial grounds,” she wrote.

“I am advised that the project has now been significantly scaled back and involves just an open-cut mine, and no underground collieries … Due to the scale back, total investment has been reduced significantly as have the number of new jobs forecast.

“I note the NAIF’s Investment Mandate Direction 2016, which provides a number of important investment safeguards. Notwithstanding, I am concerned about the commercial risk involved in the government providing such a significant loan to Adani under these circumstances.”

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/barnaby-joyces-duck-pond-claims-under-fire-as-adani-coal-row-deepens-20170413-gvkfgk.html

Good to see Henderson doing something other than screeching finger-pointing behind the dispatch box.

Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 12:56 pm

Another interesting point brought up in the ACIL Allen report…..

“The Carmichael mine will produce two coal products: Product 1, a low ash/moderate to energy product which will be most suitable for Asian premium export markets, and Product 2, a high ash/lower energy product which will be most suitable for nonpremium markets, in particular India.”

David Thurtell from the Australian government’s Office of the Chief Economist said that Galilee Basin coals typically had a lower calorific value than those mined in the Hunter Valley region of NSW, which means you need to burn more of them to achieve the same level of combustion in power stations.

Wood Mackenzie estimated that the average product from the Carmichael mine would have a calorific value around 4820 kilocalories with ash content around 21.7 per cent.

The benchmark thermal coal from the Hunter Valley has a calorific value of 6000 kilocalories and an ash content around 15 per cent.

http://www.afr.com/business/mining/eyes-on-carmichael-as-turnbull-meets-with-modi-20170407-gvfvxp#ixzz4eeo16OJ6

Also in the ACIL Allen report….

as only a small proportion of the returns to the Project (including royalties and taxes) will accrue to local residents, a significant portion of the wealth generated by the economic activity is transferred outside of the Local MIW Region (primarily to overseas shareholders).

the exports from the Project will cause a small appreciation of the exchange rate which will have a negative effect on trade-exposed industries, such as in the manufacturing sector

Frank SmithApril 19, 2017 at 1:05 pm

Financing this Railway link to the Galilee Basin has some very confusing aspects that need to be flushed out. Adani’s Carmicheal Mine is just one of a number of mammoth mining projects “waiting to happen” in the Galilee Basin. Another Indian family mining magnate, GVK Reddy has a joint venture with Gina in GVK Hancock which has the huge Alpha and Kevin’s Corner mine leases in the southern section of the Galilee Basin – in fact a small pit has already been dug in the Alpha mine area. And our now ex-PUP, larger than life pollie, Clive Palmer has two very large lease areas in the southern Galilee Basin through his company Waratah Coal. I have heard a couple of the Coalition pollies claim that a reason that the North Australia Infrastructure Fund should be used for this rail link is that the line will then serve all mining ventures in the Galilee Basin rather than have each developer build their own rail links. Now, if Adani were to receive funding through the NAIF it would seem unlikely that he would want to enable his competitors to also use that rail link, particularly as there would then be an avalanche of coal coming onto a suppressed market. Further if Adani were to be given, or claim, exclusive rights to the line, Barnaby’s best friend Gina, GVK Reddy and the old sparring partner Clive would be none to pleased, particularly as the coal needs to go out through Adani’s Abbott Point terminal. There is a lot the public is not being told about all of these developments. But the Coalition and, most regrettably, the Queensland Labor Government seem hell bent on opening up as many of these megamines in the Galilee Basin as possible. Money and political expediency trump the poor Planet and all its dependant creatures!

guestApril 19, 2017 at 3:03 pm

Thank you, Frank Smith. The facts are staggering. We know of 40 coal mines existing in Qid. When we realise there are more waiting in the wings, more than just Adani, then we know there must be greater transparency about the business plans for all mines – and the truth, please.

Once upon a time there was the half joke that we are turning Oz into a giant quarry. We know now it is no joke.

There are even laws against protesting such developments. Yet it is hard not to protest when we know what Climate Change is about and we see its effects (while Murdoch lets at least one of his scribblers refer to climate “fruitcakes” this week), we know coal is in decline, we know that some “facts” about the Carmichael mine are false, we know that there are questions to be asked about Adani and its operations…The whole matter is set up for a huge failure and rivers of tears.

Are our political “leaders” so ignorant that they are fooled by this suspect scheme – and we are expected to sit back and let it all happen? We only have to look at the failures of the present Federal government (think NBN, think backflips, think policy vacuum) and they have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted.

Some legal action seems to me to be most appropriate, especially if our worst fears are realised – and surely they will not take long to happen, bigtime.

Goodbye, Great barrier Reef. Goodbye, money. Goodbye, jobs. Goodbye, Truffles and Bananaby and all those deceived.

Frank SmithApril 19, 2017 at 3:34 pm

As a Queenslander I am in a dilemna as to where to put my vote for the upcoming State Election. As far as our environment is concerned the LNP, Labor, Katter’s cowboys and more than likely Poorleen’s rabble are pushing for this rail link and development of these megamines in the Galilee Basin. The Greens are the only alternative but haven’t a hope of ever stopping these vandals. I enjoyed the Miriam English AIMN article “Please let me know the truth about Adani” on March 28 and had put a similar question to our Premier and Minister Lyneham last month whilst the Premier was being “courted” by Adani as I cannot understand where they are coming from, particularly as there have been a number of excellent renewable energy projects stalled in Queensland whilst the Feds trashed the renewable energy target. No response at all, but I hope that lack of communication is only because the State Government has been overwhelmed by Cyclone Debbie and its aftermath.

RoswellApril 19, 2017 at 3:45 pm

Frank, I’m not a Queenslander (saints be praised) so I’m no expert on the matter, but it’s my humble guess that voters will savage the State Govt over Adani.

diannaartApril 19, 2017 at 3:52 pm

Roswell

If you are right, then who will the Queenslanders vote for?

A successful smear campaign on the Greens remains a stumbling block for prospective voters. Also, “jobs” – who will expose the truth regarding future jobs to those whose background is in mining, who have no reason to feel welcome in changing careers because state and federal governments have not placed a jot of sincere interest in helping people change careers to match evolving industries?

The State government should be flayed slowly over a burning coal pit for their short term thinking.

Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 4:08 pm

Adani spokesman Ron Watson said

The name Ron Watson rings a bell. In times gone, by he was a ‘presser’ working for Premier Peter Beattie. Google the two names to see some links, usually at the bottom of a press release. He then transferred to the Queensland Public Service. Moved from agency to agency as he climbed the ladder. Received a good promotion in Corrective Services.

A search of Ministerial Diaries in the Newman years sees Ron emerge as Group Manager Corporate Communications, Energex. Now he fronts for Adani. Nothing wrong with that. Besides one of his close colleagues in his ‘staffer’ years was none other that Annastacia Palaszczuk. They were good ‘friends’ then (for a while at least) and apparently now as well.

It’s a small world.

BTW the Labor Government won’t be savaged over Adani. Indeed they would be wiped out in certain parts of the State if they rejected Adani. This is not to say they will win the next election. All governments, regardless of location, are in trouble.

RoswellApril 19, 2017 at 4:36 pm

Damn. That’s a point I overlooked, Dianna.

diannaartApril 19, 2017 at 5:18 pm

Roswell

The only possible, but nowhere near soon enough, solution is for the Greens and Independents and small parties of similar ideologies to join together in an awareness campaign – don’t know where they’ll find the $. Any wealthy philanthropists out there who care for the future rather than immediate gain?

The public really need to hear of valid alternatives to coal, fracking and other insults to the Australian environment.

At present, we have a federal government where many of its members believe the Libs are too far to the left! This needs addressing at a public level. Wishing I could just disappear terms like ‘left’ and ‘right’ and talk in terms of viable futures for our children. We are running out of time.

The global seaborne coal market is in structural decline. There is a glut. Thermal coal futures prices are well below the spot price – and even at present spot prices, this is hardly a viable financial proposition.

https://theconversation.com/australias-energy-debates-need-to-move-beyond-political-tribalism-76309

Frank SmithApril 19, 2017 at 5:48 pm

I have been a great supporter of the Palasuzcuk Government – was thrilled when they snuck over the line against Newman’s mob. But on this issue they have totally lost me – the strength of their support for this issue in spite of all the negative consequences is irrational and leaves me floundering – poor old Henry Palasuzcuk must be turning in his grave. The claim is that it is all about jobs, but all the evidence indicates that the actual number of jobs available has been vastly overstated. So, if these people are capable of responding to logical arguments we need to come up with alternative job generators. I put forward some ideas in a post to an article in The Guardian a few days ago so will post it here again for discussion in this forum.

********

I am somewhat surprised that I have not seen the Kennedy Energy Park raised in discussions about the disastrous Carmicheal Mine. It seems that a major reason the LNP and ALP are so actively promoting the Adani venture is jobs for North and Central Queensland in spite of the fact that the number of jobs available is being clearly overstated – perhaps around 1450 according to sworn testimony in court, but probably fewer still as mining becomes more automated and robotic. Yes, there is a clear need to promote real jobs in north Queensland and building a major high capacity renewable energy project would not only provide direct jobs in it construction, operation and maintenance, but also attract many other types of industries into the region. It seems to me that the Kennedy Energy Park is just the type of project that is needed and should be fast-tracked in lieu of the very contentious Carmicheal Mine project.

The Kennedy Energy Park proposal has been around for some years, but was unable to proceed whilst our useless pollies killed investment by having a war on the renewable energy target. The full development would see construction of 600 MW of solar PV plus 600 MW of wind energy and some battery backup built near Hughenden, 290 km southwest of Townsville. The development is designed by Windlab, a spin-off company from CSIRO research. The beauty about this project is that Windlab have identified a region where atmospheric conditions enable solar PV and wind turbines to complement each other, so reducing the intermittent nature of renewable energy. In October 2016 ARENA agreed to fund a first stage of the project (19 MW solar + 21 MW wind + 2MW battery storage) to be completed in 2018. Windlab have partnered with Eurus Energy (a partnership between Toyota Tsusho and Tokyo Electric Power) in this stage of the project that will supply power to a local area out to Julia Creek.

http://www.kennedyenergypark.com.au/

ARENA backs Queensland solar, wind and battery project

The second stage of the project, Big Kennedy, is presently constrained by the need to upgrade the transmission line to connect it into the grid. So, here is another major job creator and a far better use of the Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund than financing a railway link to the Galilee Basin. And whilst we are about suggesting major job creation and infrastructure projects for the Queensland and Federal Governments to consider, there are huge bodies of water in the Burdekin Falls Dam, the Tinaroo Dam on the Atherton Tableland, the Fairbairn Dam near Emerald and other storages that provide great potential for pumped-hydro developments. This proven technology is already used in Queensland as the 500MW Wivenhoe Pumped-Hydro power station has operated successfully since 1984. Water from the Wivenhow Dam just west of Brisbane is pumped up to a higher level dam built into a saddle in the adjacent mountains at Splityard Creek during times of low electricity demand and then, during periods of peak demand, released back into Wivenhoe through the turbines of two 250 MW generators. A very clever and simple massive storage battery that can be used as a proven model for similar developments on other dams that will further reduce the intermittent nature of renewable energy. And of course the pumps need to be powered by renewable energy rather than polluting coal.

http://www.csenergy.com.au/content-(168)-wivenhoe.htm

These are just a few of many major infrastructure projects for Northern Australia that our less-than-illustrious pollies should be considering instead of throwing all the eggs into the outdated basket of digging holes and exporting coal. And my guess is that such projects are more capable of providing far more local jobs and new industries than the Carmicheal Mine will ever provide – some training and reskilling may be required, but lets urge our pollies to get on with it!

DISCLAIMER. I have no connection whatever with either the Kennedy Energy Park or CS Energy other than appreciating the application of good science and engineering solutions to significant environmental, social and economic problems. CS Energy is actually one of two Queensland Government owned Energy Providers

Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 10:25 pm

Interesting post Frank Smith. Just a point or two before my response. You say:

poor old Henry Palasuzcuk must be turning in his grave.

Not quite. While Henry is ‘old’, he is somewhat younger than me. Further, Henry is still alive and kicking and I am reliably informed he is extremely proud of his daughter’s achievements. But to matters more relevant.

There’s much talk about Adani and the number of jobs that may or may not be provided. While I think the lower number is much more likely (if it does proceed and I remain sceptical about that prospect) I don’t rely on mining for a living. I don’t ‘live’ in a mining town. In short, I must confess I don’t have ‘skin in the (immediate, short term) game’. I don’t choose to ‘believe’. I have that luxury.

Living in a mining town has a whole host of sociological implications that go far beyond current employment or future job prospects – crucial as they maybe. Living in a mining town involves a whole host of complex social relationships that not only includes the ‘miner’ but also his/her partner. It also involves children, friends, relatives, acquaintances, rivals and so on. Important relationships because they define who they are. And I won’t mention ‘home’, club, church and the like.

While it’s relatively easy for me to sit back and pontificate about what ‘ought’ to happen, I have sympathy for those who choose to ‘believe’ that Adani will be the saviour. After all, it’s what ‘religion’ is all about. And there’s a whole host of believers.

They hope their lifestyle won’t be destroyed.

Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 10:42 pm

There are also a whole host of people who are going to have to change careers in the not too distant future.

While the miners made a lot of money for a period, their good fortune contributed in part to the death of the car industry and other manufacturing in Australia due to our stubbornly high dollar.

They would be better employed doing mine reclamation and clean up than pinning their hopes on Adani. Or building a high speed railway. Or solar and wind farms and pumped hydro and interconnectors.

Or training as robotic technicians and designers.

Or small scale sustainable farming.

Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 10:52 pm

No doubt KL they want more of your ‘preaching’.

But maybe not.

Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 11:12 pm

I am not preaching to anyone at all. No-one is compelled to read what I write. I am trying to make sensible suggestions. I am sure there are better ones.

Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 11:15 pm

a whole host of people who are going to have to change careers in the not too distant future.

Yet there is the belief that with the arrival of Adani that won’t happen. There is the belief that they won’t have to do mine reclamation, or train as robotic technicians and designers (give me a break – they have absolutely no prospect of going down that track).

As for high speed rail .. KL I know you can do the maths. But then again, so can I.

KL, I am trying to get the point across from their POV. Adani is their (false) saviour.

Politics is about ‘belief’. And they believe.

burniebobthe_b_April 19, 2017 at 11:28 pm

diannaart “don’t know where they’ll find the $.”
The Greens do quite well thank you from the taxpayer and they have perfected the strategy of running candidates in every seat at every election with little or zero expectation of winning the seat but with every hope of claiming the taxpayer dollars in election funding
I think they were also the beneficiaries of the biggest single donation in Australian political history from some wealthy business owner

Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 11:39 pm

KL re ‘preaching’. That’s how many of the residents of these mining towns see the world when an ‘outsider’ hits them with an absolute dire prediction, particularly when there are diametrically opposed views advanced by political power brokers.

If you live in Moranbah, for example, with (usually) your wife and kids and your house and a whole network of relationships that define who you are and you read that your world is about to end – then, from their point of view, it’s preaching. It’s not welcome because it’s ‘false’. It must be. The reality is too bleak to entertain.

Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 6:57 am

I am not the enemy. All I try to do is pass on information and toss around ideas. I fully understand the fear for the future as people see their jobs disappearing. And this phenomenon is only going to increase – it is not confined to mining.

I hate these confected divides between city and country. I hate the disparaging terms, usually used by those in the bush, that dismiss the concern from the elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left. Rural and regional Australia are vastly over-represented in the government compared to population so it is not like they don’t have a voice.

We now have Fiona Nash making every department head waste time either planning to move from Canberra to regional areas or making a case for why they shouldn’t. Surely it would be easier to just ask if any departments felt it would be advantageous to move. You talk of the families and lives of the miners – what about the public servants that Barnaby and Fiona are pushing around like bits on a chess board? Or the 18,000 public service jobs that have already been cut.

In order to make sensible decisions we need to hear the truth, not vote for someone who tells you the lies you want to hear.

Frank SmithApril 20, 2017 at 8:05 am

Let us not forget that many in the modern mining industry don’t live in the mining towns or contribute to the communities in those towns – they are fly-in/fly-out (FIFO) workers who are accommodated in mining camps and can become a burden on the townships through their medical needs etc. And with automated mining, the major part of the workforce is likely to be in a capital city – whilst in the Pilbara a year or so back I saw a demonstration of how 400 ton dump trucks could be operated from Perth and even the iron ore trains could be driverless. No doubt Adani, GVK Reddy and Gina would be using this sort of technology in their Galilee Basin ventures.

Helen BatesApril 20, 2017 at 8:49 am

Kaye Lee “I hate the disparaging terms, usually used by those in the bush, that dismiss the concern from the elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left”
I hate the “elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left” trying to tell those from the bush and regional and rural Australia that the only answer is theirs.
SORRY, we have a vote and a say as well as the “elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left”
It works both ways, you have your elitist … we have our local concerns

Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 8:56 am

Thanks for making my point Helen. Perhaps instead of the name-calling you could discuss the article or make some suggestions of your own? And just for your information, I was born in a small country town and I now live in a regional area with high unemployment and ‘local concerns’.

KyranApril 20, 2017 at 9:22 am

Having a title including the words “evidence based” and a picture of bananas is cause for concern.
This is the fool that decided relocation of the APVMA required no evidence, economic or otherwise, nor did it require any consultation with stakeholders.
He now has his junior, gnash, advocating the same ‘process’ be adopted for every single solitary government agency (announced at a Press Club luncheon, which allowed her to advocate the ‘superior NBN’ of her government that would enable such bold foresight – without a single question from the ‘press’ asking how a defective NBN could facilitate such a vision).
With regard to Adani, putting aside the environmental impact, putting aside the employment opportunities, putting aside the prospect of increasing coal production while the demand is contracting, putting aside the curious relationship of Gautam Adani and Narendra Modi since 2002, putting aside the frequent visits by our politicians begging the grate man for his further indulgence.
Forget all that. Even forget all of the claims levelled against Adani and his companies.
http://adanifiles.com.au/
That is a biased site, for sure. But you get the gist.
Put all of that aside. Most articles refer to ‘Adani’ as a corporate enterprise in a singular sense, which is erroneous. Stephen Long at the ABC has published several articles about the myriad of companies involved, some public, some private, some incorporated here, some incorporated in India. And some incorporated in the Cayman’s.
It’s not difficult to find them. Most of the articles detail a relationship between the companies that will leave the debt and liability resting with governments and shareholders and the Adani family sailing off into the sunset with bags of cash.
Of particular note was one of his articles in March.

“An “overarching royalty deed” gives a shell company rights to receive a $2-a-tonne payment, rising yearly by the inflation rate, beyond the first 400,000 tonnes mined in each production year for two decades.
The company with this entitlement is ultimately owned by Atulya Resources Limited, a secretive entity registered in the Cayman Islands, and controlled by the Adani family.”

The history of the ‘royalty deed’, if true, is cause for investigation.

“In 2010, Adani Mining Pty Ltd bought the coal tenement that is set to become the Carmichael mine from the now defunct Linc Energy.
Part of the sale involved Adani Mining giving Linc Energy an “overriding royalty deed” which entitled it to receive $2-a-tonne for all coal mined beyond the first 400,000 tonnes in any production year.
Linc Energy informed investors at the time could be worth “over $120 million per annum” and up to $3 billion over the course of the royalty right.
But in August 2014, in dire financial straits, Linc Energy agreed to sell the royalty deed back to Adani at a fire sale price: just $150 million.
The obvious course would have been to extinguish the royalty deed, because it represented a multi-billion-dollar liability for the mine which is ultimately owned by Adani Enterprises Ltd, the Bombay-stock exchange listed company.
Instead, the royalty deed “was assigned by Linc Energy Limited to Carmichael Rail Network Pty Ltd as trustee for Carmichael Rail Network Trust,” notes in financial reports of Adani Mining Pty Ltd say.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-14/adani-carmichael-coalmine-to-shift-millions-to-cayman-islands/8350704
Shouldn’t this one aspect alone be grounds for ASIC or the AFP to have a little look?
On a different note, the inclusion of words such as ‘preach’, ‘belief’, ‘saviour’, in the later comments invoke a religious overtone. My understanding is that a religious belief is one that encourages acceptance without question. My understanding is that democracy requires you question everything with a desire to provide for the public good.
Matters Not (@11.15) stated ‘Politics is about ‘belief’. And they believe.’
To me, that sums up the current malaise. Politicians seem to have this view of themselves as preachers and saviours, needing to convert those (previously known as voters) non-believers to their beliefs.
They no longer see a need for evidence based anything. They merely need more believers.
Thank you Ms Lee and commenters. Take care

helvityniApril 20, 2017 at 9:27 am

I’m not an elitist, but I have always loved avocado (thinly sliced with some vinegar, plus pepper) on my brekkie toast (rye)..

About ten years ago I was having a quick bite for lunch when shopping in town. A smartly dressed lady and her privileged looking daughter sat at the next table. They studied the menu, the daughter shrieked: Mum ,what on earth is ‘avotcado’?

I got the feeling that mum didn’t know either…

I have lived many years in inner-city, also in the country, and I’m a leftie ,but I certainly never liked Chardonnay… 🙂

Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 9:28 am

Oi there’s nothing wrong with a nice chardy!

Alan BairdApril 20, 2017 at 9:55 am

Yeah, I’m a chardonnay, sauvignon blanc… name your poison… sipper. Perhaps quaffer would be more accurate. I also hold chattering classes as described by bastions of the right, and am a member of the same. The alcohol helps the chatter. Oh, and I’ve been told on so many occasions and in so many words that I’m a member of the elite and that can’t be bad. No wonder I look down upon politicians and newspaper proprietors.

Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 10:33 am

It is a scary world when “intellectual” is spat out as a derogatory term. It abrogates those making the decisions from accountability. We are constantly told that the people in the pub aren’t interested in modelling or cost benefit analyses or any evidence at all it would seem. Barnaby says it is cold in Canberra so global warming can’t be true. Pauline says some people have told her that wind farms make them sick so we must ban them. Ignorance is bliss apparently.

HarquebusApril 20, 2017 at 11:39 am

“words are meaningless if you keep digging up more carbon and selling it to people to burn” This excerpt is in relation to Canada’s tar sands.
“Which is a fine thing to say – or would be, if your government wasn’t backing plans for the largest coal mine on Earth. That single mine, in a country of 24 million people, will produce 362% of the annual carbon emissions that everyone in the Philippines produces in the course of a year. It is obviously, mathematically and morally absurd.” This one refers to us.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/17/stop-swooning-justin-trudeau-man-disaster-planet

Cheers.

diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 1:17 pm

Relating facts is not preaching.

Would a reasonable person ignore warnings of an impending flood by arguing, “what do others know, they don’t live here?”

The Earth’s atmosphere is changing due to the increasing level of green house gases such as carbon and methane.

To put the problem in perspective, here are some of the key numbers.

Humans have emitted 1,540 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide gas since the industrial revolution. To put it another way, that’s equivalent to burning enough coal to form a square tower 22 metres wide that reaches from Earth to the Moon.

Half of these emissions have remained in the atmosphere, causing a rise of CO₂ levels that is at least 10 times faster than any known natural increase during Earth’s long history. Most of the other half has dissolved into the ocean, causing acidification with its own detrimental impacts.

Although nature does remove CO₂, for example through growth and burial of plants and algae, we emit it at least 100 times faster than it’s eliminated. We can’t rely on natural mechanisms to handle this problem: people will need to help as well.

https://theconversation.com/we-need-to-get-rid-of-carbon-in-the-atmosphere-not-just-reduce-emissions-72573

The above link to Conversation article is not preaching it is a warning.

We can sit back, continue mining until Australia is just one big empty quarry, until PPM of carbon dioxide gas reaches levels where any action we take will be futile, justify wrecking a environmentally based industry (that’s tourism and related jobs) for the jobs of FIFO workers…. OK do that, but don’t whine when our climate changes irrevocably, when there are no more mining jobs, or tourism jobs or even viable agriculture because the climate changed faster than we did.

diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 1:28 pm

@ bbt_b_

The Greens do quite well thank you…

Riiiiiight…. The Greens a have leader who can toss a spare $1 million into the party coffers?… no wait that was Malcontent. The Greens have a single wealthy benefactor? Yes…and that’s wrong?

Finally, nation media campaigns cost far more that the Greens and related groups can manage. If you are going to express an opinion, it helps to base it on relevant facts.

Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 3:58 pm

The Greens collected $6 337 258.36 from the last federal election. Pauline Hanson’s One Nation Party collected $1 623 827.11 Even Derryn Hinch’s Justice Party collected $544 420.99. It’s quite a money spinner even for people who don’t win. Windsor and Oakeshott both got over $70,000 for the last election. Perhaps they invested much more than that. The money that is wasted on elections is staggering. The electoral commission paid out over $60 million to candidates after last election. Any person or party who gets over 4% of the first preference vote gets about $2.63 per vote.

diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 6:01 pm

Kaye Lee and any other interested AIMers

Below is a graph showing total spent on advertising for the 2016 election campaign.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-24/election-campaign-advertising/7400826

Too much spending – I would think so… likelihood of change to more austere party promotion? Unlikely.

What was the point again?

I was trying to point out the urgent need for Australian public to understand the facts, issues and consequences regarding climate and what we can to to mitigate further changes before tipping point. I believe expecting the LNP or even Labor to consider reality in their quest for governance to be a waste of time.

https://theconversation.com/what-climate-tipping-points-should-we-be-looking-out-for-27108

RhondaApril 20, 2017 at 6:27 pm

Hey Roswell, I am a Queenslander (but I don’t praise saints). The next election will put us in such a quandary – how to savage the current mob without being mauled by the other mongrels? That is the question.

Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 6:35 pm

Tough call Rhonda I agree. A Green revolution?

Interesting diannaart. Imagine if they just used the national broadcaster for free.

I agree action on climate change is a priority that is not receiving the attention it must have.

burniebobthe_b_April 20, 2017 at 7:18 pm

diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 1:28 pm

@ bbt_b_

“The Greens do quite well thank you…}
As Kaye Lee pointed out “The Greens collected $6 337 258.36 from the last federal election.” plus they collected from every State election and in NSW that amounted to $2.7 million
Throw in all the other states and that is hardly chump change is it?
“The Greens have a single wealthy benefactor? Yes…and that’s wrong?”
no but considering they want to abolish or restrict donations to political parties it is a little bit rich to complain when other parties get smaller donations than they did you think?
As for a “A Green revolution?”
The next test is Queensland and the Greens are a non event in that state so can’t see the revolution starting yet but more just how the One Nation crowd will go

LOVOApril 20, 2017 at 10:47 pm

Kaye, I don’t think I’m getting my two dollars sixty three cents worth….. 😯
It certainly puts a new slant on “Government Business ” ?

diannaartApril 21, 2017 at 11:35 am

bbt_b_

The fact the Australian public needs to hear facts regarding saving the environment not your concern?

You want to argue about the Greens rather than our future?

Politics is made up of hypocrites – we have to do the best we can with what we have and I’d rather be supporting environmentally aware politicians than the likes of the LNP.

You did make one point with which I sadly agree – One Nation nutters will clean up in QLD elections – which is why we need a better informed public… so it goes…

Kaye LeeApril 21, 2017 at 11:42 am

LOVO,

We should demand a refund!

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David BruceApril 19, 2017 at 10:41 am

I think the evidence is in, the inmates are running the asylum!
KronomexApril 19, 2017 at 10:44 am

The evidence is that the more money you give the LNP the less oversight there is going to be and the more often you’ll get what you want.
Peter FApril 19, 2017 at 11:06 am

At least one Coalition minister has said that ‘once it is up and running’ others will come on board. Gina? Of course. If you want to know who is really meant to benefit, look no further.
diannaartApril 19, 2017 at 11:07 am

1. Adani’s fossil fuel investment is only eligible for the $ if project is not financial? Nothing about the future for coal, its just about raising the cash?

NAIF’s rules require it to only lend to projects that “would not otherwise have received sufficient financing from other financiers

2. But, this is not a problem because there is plenty of investment funding around to make the project financially viable?

“There is a lot of sources of funds which are available to Adani and we will use these shareholder options as and when required. This project will get funded, this project will see execution this year.”

Did the greedy have a bypass on value for money? I have often pondered this short term thinking of those who claim to be conservative. If one is cautious (conservative) should not there be a lot more consideration of evidence than knee-jerk grabs for short term gain?

Explains why so-called conservative governments tend towards destruction rather than building; faster results but doesn’t explain how this behaviour still claims to be under the umbrella of “conservative”.

Dear Barnaby, in future, please refer to yourself and your cronies what you truly are; greedy, self-obsessed fascists.
Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 11:44 am

There is some breaking of the Coalition ranks on this issue (as there seems to be on everything)

Sarah Henderson, who holds the marginal Victorian seat of Corangamite, has become the second Liberal MP to raise concern about Adani receiving a public loan, after Queenslander Bert van Manen said the rail line should not be in the hands of one company.

Following a meeting with representatives from GetUp, Ms Henderson wrote to the activist group outlining her concerns and saying she had contacted Mr Canavan over them.

“I too share your concerns on commercial grounds,” she wrote.

“I am advised that the project has now been significantly scaled back and involves just an open-cut mine, and no underground collieries … Due to the scale back, total investment has been reduced significantly as have the number of new jobs forecast.

“I note the NAIF’s Investment Mandate Direction 2016, which provides a number of important investment safeguards. Notwithstanding, I am concerned about the commercial risk involved in the government providing such a significant loan to Adani under these circumstances.”

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/barnaby-joyces-duck-pond-claims-under-fire-as-adani-coal-row-deepens-20170413-gvkfgk.html

Good to see Henderson doing something other than screeching finger-pointing behind the dispatch box.
Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 12:56 pm

Another interesting point brought up in the ACIL Allen report…..

“The Carmichael mine will produce two coal products: Product 1, a low ash/moderate to energy product which will be most suitable for Asian premium export markets, and Product 2, a high ash/lower energy product which will be most suitable for nonpremium markets, in particular India.”

David Thurtell from the Australian government’s Office of the Chief Economist said that Galilee Basin coals typically had a lower calorific value than those mined in the Hunter Valley region of NSW, which means you need to burn more of them to achieve the same level of combustion in power stations.

Wood Mackenzie estimated that the average product from the Carmichael mine would have a calorific value around 4820 kilocalories with ash content around 21.7 per cent.

The benchmark thermal coal from the Hunter Valley has a calorific value of 6000 kilocalories and an ash content around 15 per cent.

http://www.afr.com/business/mining/eyes-on-carmichael-as-turnbull-meets-with-modi-20170407-gvfvxp#ixzz4eeo16OJ6

Also in the ACIL Allen report….

as only a small proportion of the returns to the Project (including royalties and taxes) will accrue to local residents, a significant portion of the wealth generated by the economic activity is transferred outside of the Local MIW Region (primarily to overseas shareholders).

the exports from the Project will cause a small appreciation of the exchange rate which will have a negative effect on trade-exposed industries, such as in the manufacturing sector
Frank SmithApril 19, 2017 at 1:05 pm

Financing this Railway link to the Galilee Basin has some very confusing aspects that need to be flushed out. Adani’s Carmicheal Mine is just one of a number of mammoth mining projects “waiting to happen” in the Galilee Basin. Another Indian family mining magnate, GVK Reddy has a joint venture with Gina in GVK Hancock which has the huge Alpha and Kevin’s Corner mine leases in the southern section of the Galilee Basin – in fact a small pit has already been dug in the Alpha mine area. And our now ex-PUP, larger than life pollie, Clive Palmer has two very large lease areas in the southern Galilee Basin through his company Waratah Coal. I have heard a couple of the Coalition pollies claim that a reason that the North Australia Infrastructure Fund should be used for this rail link is that the line will then serve all mining ventures in the Galilee Basin rather than have each developer build their own rail links. Now, if Adani were to receive funding through the NAIF it would seem unlikely that he would want to enable his competitors to also use that rail link, particularly as there would then be an avalanche of coal coming onto a suppressed market. Further if Adani were to be given, or claim, exclusive rights to the line, Barnaby’s best friend Gina, GVK Reddy and the old sparring partner Clive would be none to pleased, particularly as the coal needs to go out through Adani’s Abbott Point terminal. There is a lot the public is not being told about all of these developments. But the Coalition and, most regrettably, the Queensland Labor Government seem hell bent on opening up as many of these megamines in the Galilee Basin as possible. Money and political expediency trump the poor Planet and all its dependant creatures!
guestApril 19, 2017 at 3:03 pm

Thank you, Frank Smith. The facts are staggering. We know of 40 coal mines existing in Qid. When we realise there are more waiting in the wings, more than just Adani, then we know there must be greater transparency about the business plans for all mines – and the truth, please.

Once upon a time there was the half joke that we are turning Oz into a giant quarry. We know now it is no joke.

There are even laws against protesting such developments. Yet it is hard not to protest when we know what Climate Change is about and we see its effects (while Murdoch lets at least one of his scribblers refer to climate “fruitcakes” this week), we know coal is in decline, we know that some “facts” about the Carmichael mine are false, we know that there are questions to be asked about Adani and its operations…The whole matter is set up for a huge failure and rivers of tears.

Are our political “leaders” so ignorant that they are fooled by this suspect scheme – and we are expected to sit back and let it all happen? We only have to look at the failures of the present Federal government (think NBN, think backflips, think policy vacuum) and they have demonstrated that they cannot be trusted.

Some legal action seems to me to be most appropriate, especially if our worst fears are realised – and surely they will not take long to happen, bigtime.

Goodbye, Great barrier Reef. Goodbye, money. Goodbye, jobs. Goodbye, Truffles and Bananaby and all those deceived.
Frank SmithApril 19, 2017 at 3:34 pm

As a Queenslander I am in a dilemna as to where to put my vote for the upcoming State Election. As far as our environment is concerned the LNP, Labor, Katter’s cowboys and more than likely Poorleen’s rabble are pushing for this rail link and development of these megamines in the Galilee Basin. The Greens are the only alternative but haven’t a hope of ever stopping these vandals. I enjoyed the Miriam English AIMN article “Please let me know the truth about Adani” on March 28 and had put a similar question to our Premier and Minister Lyneham last month whilst the Premier was being “courted” by Adani as I cannot understand where they are coming from, particularly as there have been a number of excellent renewable energy projects stalled in Queensland whilst the Feds trashed the renewable energy target. No response at all, but I hope that lack of communication is only because the State Government has been overwhelmed by Cyclone Debbie and its aftermath.
RoswellApril 19, 2017 at 3:45 pm

Frank, I’m not a Queenslander (saints be praised) so I’m no expert on the matter, but it’s my humble guess that voters will savage the State Govt over Adani.
diannaartApril 19, 2017 at 3:52 pm

Roswell

If you are right, then who will the Queenslanders vote for?

A successful smear campaign on the Greens remains a stumbling block for prospective voters. Also, “jobs” – who will expose the truth regarding future jobs to those whose background is in mining, who have no reason to feel welcome in changing careers because state and federal governments have not placed a jot of sincere interest in helping people change careers to match evolving industries?

The State government should be flayed slowly over a burning coal pit for their short term thinking.
Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 4:08 pm

Adani spokesman Ron Watson said

The name Ron Watson rings a bell. In times gone, by he was a ‘presser’ working for Premier Peter Beattie. Google the two names to see some links, usually at the bottom of a press release. He then transferred to the Queensland Public Service. Moved from agency to agency as he climbed the ladder. Received a good promotion in Corrective Services.

A search of Ministerial Diaries in the Newman years sees Ron emerge as Group Manager Corporate Communications, Energex. Now he fronts for Adani. Nothing wrong with that. Besides one of his close colleagues in his ‘staffer’ years was none other that Annastacia Palaszczuk. They were good ‘friends’ then (for a while at least) and apparently now as well.

It’s a small world.

BTW the Labor Government won’t be savaged over Adani. Indeed they would be wiped out in certain parts of the State if they rejected Adani. This is not to say they will win the next election. All governments, regardless of location, are in trouble.
RoswellApril 19, 2017 at 4:36 pm

Damn. That’s a point I overlooked, Dianna.
diannaartApril 19, 2017 at 5:18 pm

Roswell

The only possible, but nowhere near soon enough, solution is for the Greens and Independents and small parties of similar ideologies to join together in an awareness campaign – don’t know where they’ll find the $. Any wealthy philanthropists out there who care for the future rather than immediate gain?

The public really need to hear of valid alternatives to coal, fracking and other insults to the Australian environment.

At present, we have a federal government where many of its members believe the Libs are too far to the left! This needs addressing at a public level. Wishing I could just disappear terms like ‘left’ and ‘right’ and talk in terms of viable futures for our children. We are running out of time.

The global seaborne coal market is in structural decline. There is a glut. Thermal coal futures prices are well below the spot price – and even at present spot prices, this is hardly a viable financial proposition.

https://theconversation.com/australias-energy-debates-need-to-move-beyond-political-tribalism-76309
Frank SmithApril 19, 2017 at 5:48 pm

I have been a great supporter of the Palasuzcuk Government – was thrilled when they snuck over the line against Newman’s mob. But on this issue they have totally lost me – the strength of their support for this issue in spite of all the negative consequences is irrational and leaves me floundering – poor old Henry Palasuzcuk must be turning in his grave. The claim is that it is all about jobs, but all the evidence indicates that the actual number of jobs available has been vastly overstated. So, if these people are capable of responding to logical arguments we need to come up with alternative job generators. I put forward some ideas in a post to an article in The Guardian a few days ago so will post it here again for discussion in this forum.

********

I am somewhat surprised that I have not seen the Kennedy Energy Park raised in discussions about the disastrous Carmicheal Mine. It seems that a major reason the LNP and ALP are so actively promoting the Adani venture is jobs for North and Central Queensland in spite of the fact that the number of jobs available is being clearly overstated – perhaps around 1450 according to sworn testimony in court, but probably fewer still as mining becomes more automated and robotic. Yes, there is a clear need to promote real jobs in north Queensland and building a major high capacity renewable energy project would not only provide direct jobs in it construction, operation and maintenance, but also attract many other types of industries into the region. It seems to me that the Kennedy Energy Park is just the type of project that is needed and should be fast-tracked in lieu of the very contentious Carmicheal Mine project.

The Kennedy Energy Park proposal has been around for some years, but was unable to proceed whilst our useless pollies killed investment by having a war on the renewable energy target. The full development would see construction of 600 MW of solar PV plus 600 MW of wind energy and some battery backup built near Hughenden, 290 km southwest of Townsville. The development is designed by Windlab, a spin-off company from CSIRO research. The beauty about this project is that Windlab have identified a region where atmospheric conditions enable solar PV and wind turbines to complement each other, so reducing the intermittent nature of renewable energy. In October 2016 ARENA agreed to fund a first stage of the project (19 MW solar + 21 MW wind + 2MW battery storage) to be completed in 2018. Windlab have partnered with Eurus Energy (a partnership between Toyota Tsusho and Tokyo Electric Power) in this stage of the project that will supply power to a local area out to Julia Creek.

http://www.kennedyenergypark.com.au/

ARENA backs Queensland solar, wind and battery project

The second stage of the project, Big Kennedy, is presently constrained by the need to upgrade the transmission line to connect it into the grid. So, here is another major job creator and a far better use of the Northern Australia Infrastructure Fund than financing a railway link to the Galilee Basin. And whilst we are about suggesting major job creation and infrastructure projects for the Queensland and Federal Governments to consider, there are huge bodies of water in the Burdekin Falls Dam, the Tinaroo Dam on the Atherton Tableland, the Fairbairn Dam near Emerald and other storages that provide great potential for pumped-hydro developments. This proven technology is already used in Queensland as the 500MW Wivenhoe Pumped-Hydro power station has operated successfully since 1984. Water from the Wivenhow Dam just west of Brisbane is pumped up to a higher level dam built into a saddle in the adjacent mountains at Splityard Creek during times of low electricity demand and then, during periods of peak demand, released back into Wivenhoe through the turbines of two 250 MW generators. A very clever and simple massive storage battery that can be used as a proven model for similar developments on other dams that will further reduce the intermittent nature of renewable energy. And of course the pumps need to be powered by renewable energy rather than polluting coal.

http://www.csenergy.com.au/content-(168)-wivenhoe.htm

These are just a few of many major infrastructure projects for Northern Australia that our less-than-illustrious pollies should be considering instead of throwing all the eggs into the outdated basket of digging holes and exporting coal. And my guess is that such projects are more capable of providing far more local jobs and new industries than the Carmicheal Mine will ever provide – some training and reskilling may be required, but lets urge our pollies to get on with it!

DISCLAIMER. I have no connection whatever with either the Kennedy Energy Park or CS Energy other than appreciating the application of good science and engineering solutions to significant environmental, social and economic problems. CS Energy is actually one of two Queensland Government owned Energy Providers
Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 10:25 pm

Interesting post Frank Smith. Just a point or two before my response. You say:

poor old Henry Palasuzcuk must be turning in his grave.

Not quite. While Henry is ‘old’, he is somewhat younger than me. Further, Henry is still alive and kicking and I am reliably informed he is extremely proud of his daughter’s achievements. But to matters more relevant.

There’s much talk about Adani and the number of jobs that may or may not be provided. While I think the lower number is much more likely (if it does proceed and I remain sceptical about that prospect) I don’t rely on mining for a living. I don’t ‘live’ in a mining town. In short, I must confess I don’t have ‘skin in the (immediate, short term) game’. I don’t choose to ‘believe’. I have that luxury.

Living in a mining town has a whole host of sociological implications that go far beyond current employment or future job prospects – crucial as they maybe. Living in a mining town involves a whole host of complex social relationships that not only includes the ‘miner’ but also his/her partner. It also involves children, friends, relatives, acquaintances, rivals and so on. Important relationships because they define who they are. And I won’t mention ‘home’, club, church and the like.

While it’s relatively easy for me to sit back and pontificate about what ‘ought’ to happen, I have sympathy for those who choose to ‘believe’ that Adani will be the saviour. After all, it’s what ‘religion’ is all about. And there’s a whole host of believers.

They hope their lifestyle won’t be destroyed.
Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 10:42 pm

There are also a whole host of people who are going to have to change careers in the not too distant future.

While the miners made a lot of money for a period, their good fortune contributed in part to the death of the car industry and other manufacturing in Australia due to our stubbornly high dollar.

They would be better employed doing mine reclamation and clean up than pinning their hopes on Adani. Or building a high speed railway. Or solar and wind farms and pumped hydro and interconnectors.

Or training as robotic technicians and designers.

Or small scale sustainable farming.
Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 10:52 pm

No doubt KL they want more of your ‘preaching’.

But maybe not.
Kaye LeeApril 19, 2017 at 11:12 pm

I am not preaching to anyone at all. No-one is compelled to read what I write. I am trying to make sensible suggestions. I am sure there are better ones.
Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 11:15 pm

a whole host of people who are going to have to change careers in the not too distant future.

Yet there is the belief that with the arrival of Adani that won’t happen. There is the belief that they won’t have to do mine reclamation, or train as robotic technicians and designers (give me a break – they have absolutely no prospect of going down that track).

As for high speed rail .. KL I know you can do the maths. But then again, so can I.

KL, I am trying to get the point across from their POV. Adani is their (false) saviour.

Politics is about ‘belief’. And they believe.
burniebobthe_b_April 19, 2017 at 11:28 pm

diannaart “don’t know where they’ll find the $.”
The Greens do quite well thank you from the taxpayer and they have perfected the strategy of running candidates in every seat at every election with little or zero expectation of winning the seat but with every hope of claiming the taxpayer dollars in election funding
I think they were also the beneficiaries of the biggest single donation in Australian political history from some wealthy business owner
Matters NotApril 19, 2017 at 11:39 pm

KL re ‘preaching’. That’s how many of the residents of these mining towns see the world when an ‘outsider’ hits them with an absolute dire prediction, particularly when there are diametrically opposed views advanced by political power brokers.

If you live in Moranbah, for example, with (usually) your wife and kids and your house and a whole network of relationships that define who you are and you read that your world is about to end – then, from their point of view, it’s preaching. It’s not welcome because it’s ‘false’. It must be. The reality is too bleak to entertain.
Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 6:57 am

I am not the enemy. All I try to do is pass on information and toss around ideas. I fully understand the fear for the future as people see their jobs disappearing. And this phenomenon is only going to increase – it is not confined to mining.

I hate these confected divides between city and country. I hate the disparaging terms, usually used by those in the bush, that dismiss the concern from the elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left. Rural and regional Australia are vastly over-represented in the government compared to population so it is not like they don’t have a voice.

We now have Fiona Nash making every department head waste time either planning to move from Canberra to regional areas or making a case for why they shouldn’t. Surely it would be easier to just ask if any departments felt it would be advantageous to move. You talk of the families and lives of the miners – what about the public servants that Barnaby and Fiona are pushing around like bits on a chess board? Or the 18,000 public service jobs that have already been cut.

In order to make sensible decisions we need to hear the truth, not vote for someone who tells you the lies you want to hear.
Frank SmithApril 20, 2017 at 8:05 am

Let us not forget that many in the modern mining industry don’t live in the mining towns or contribute to the communities in those towns – they are fly-in/fly-out (FIFO) workers who are accommodated in mining camps and can become a burden on the townships through their medical needs etc. And with automated mining, the major part of the workforce is likely to be in a capital city – whilst in the Pilbara a year or so back I saw a demonstration of how 400 ton dump trucks could be operated from Perth and even the iron ore trains could be driverless. No doubt Adani, GVK Reddy and Gina would be using this sort of technology in their Galilee Basin ventures.
Helen BatesApril 20, 2017 at 8:49 am

Kaye Lee “I hate the disparaging terms, usually used by those in the bush, that dismiss the concern from the elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left”
I hate the “elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left” trying to tell those from the bush and regional and rural Australia that the only answer is theirs.
SORRY, we have a vote and a say as well as the “elitist latte sipping smashed avocado inner-city lunatic left”
It works both ways, you have your elitist … we have our local concerns
Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 8:56 am

Thanks for making my point Helen. Perhaps instead of the name-calling you could discuss the article or make some suggestions of your own? And just for your information, I was born in a small country town and I now live in a regional area with high unemployment and ‘local concerns’.
KyranApril 20, 2017 at 9:22 am

Having a title including the words “evidence based” and a picture of bananas is cause for concern.
This is the fool that decided relocation of the APVMA required no evidence, economic or otherwise, nor did it require any consultation with stakeholders.
He now has his junior, gnash, advocating the same ‘process’ be adopted for every single solitary government agency (announced at a Press Club luncheon, which allowed her to advocate the ‘superior NBN’ of her government that would enable such bold foresight – without a single question from the ‘press’ asking how a defective NBN could facilitate such a vision).
With regard to Adani, putting aside the environmental impact, putting aside the employment opportunities, putting aside the prospect of increasing coal production while the demand is contracting, putting aside the curious relationship of Gautam Adani and Narendra Modi since 2002, putting aside the frequent visits by our politicians begging the grate man for his further indulgence.
Forget all that. Even forget all of the claims levelled against Adani and his companies.
http://adanifiles.com.au/
That is a biased site, for sure. But you get the gist.
Put all of that aside. Most articles refer to ‘Adani’ as a corporate enterprise in a singular sense, which is erroneous. Stephen Long at the ABC has published several articles about the myriad of companies involved, some public, some private, some incorporated here, some incorporated in India. And some incorporated in the Cayman’s.
It’s not difficult to find them. Most of the articles detail a relationship between the companies that will leave the debt and liability resting with governments and shareholders and the Adani family sailing off into the sunset with bags of cash.
Of particular note was one of his articles in March.

“An “overarching royalty deed” gives a shell company rights to receive a $2-a-tonne payment, rising yearly by the inflation rate, beyond the first 400,000 tonnes mined in each production year for two decades.
The company with this entitlement is ultimately owned by Atulya Resources Limited, a secretive entity registered in the Cayman Islands, and controlled by the Adani family.”

The history of the ‘royalty deed’, if true, is cause for investigation.

“In 2010, Adani Mining Pty Ltd bought the coal tenement that is set to become the Carmichael mine from the now defunct Linc Energy.
Part of the sale involved Adani Mining giving Linc Energy an “overriding royalty deed” which entitled it to receive $2-a-tonne for all coal mined beyond the first 400,000 tonnes in any production year.
Linc Energy informed investors at the time could be worth “over $120 million per annum” and up to $3 billion over the course of the royalty right.
But in August 2014, in dire financial straits, Linc Energy agreed to sell the royalty deed back to Adani at a fire sale price: just $150 million.
The obvious course would have been to extinguish the royalty deed, because it represented a multi-billion-dollar liability for the mine which is ultimately owned by Adani Enterprises Ltd, the Bombay-stock exchange listed company.
Instead, the royalty deed “was assigned by Linc Energy Limited to Carmichael Rail Network Pty Ltd as trustee for Carmichael Rail Network Trust,” notes in financial reports of Adani Mining Pty Ltd say.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-14/adani-carmichael-coalmine-to-shift-millions-to-cayman-islands/8350704
Shouldn’t this one aspect alone be grounds for ASIC or the AFP to have a little look?
On a different note, the inclusion of words such as ‘preach’, ‘belief’, ‘saviour’, in the later comments invoke a religious overtone. My understanding is that a religious belief is one that encourages acceptance without question. My understanding is that democracy requires you question everything with a desire to provide for the public good.
Matters Not (@11.15) stated ‘Politics is about ‘belief’. And they believe.’
To me, that sums up the current malaise. Politicians seem to have this view of themselves as preachers and saviours, needing to convert those (previously known as voters) non-believers to their beliefs.
They no longer see a need for evidence based anything. They merely need more believers.
Thank you Ms Lee and commenters. Take care
helvityniApril 20, 2017 at 9:27 am

I’m not an elitist, but I have always loved avocado (thinly sliced with some vinegar, plus pepper) on my brekkie toast (rye)..

About ten years ago I was having a quick bite for lunch when shopping in town. A smartly dressed lady and her privileged looking daughter sat at the next table. They studied the menu, the daughter shrieked: Mum ,what on earth is ‘avotcado’?

I got the feeling that mum didn’t know either…

I have lived many years in inner-city, also in the country, and I’m a leftie ,but I certainly never liked Chardonnay… 🙂
Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 9:28 am

Oi there’s nothing wrong with a nice chardy!
Alan BairdApril 20, 2017 at 9:55 am

Yeah, I’m a chardonnay, sauvignon blanc… name your poison… sipper. Perhaps quaffer would be more accurate. I also hold chattering classes as described by bastions of the right, and am a member of the same. The alcohol helps the chatter. Oh, and I’ve been told on so many occasions and in so many words that I’m a member of the elite and that can’t be bad. No wonder I look down upon politicians and newspaper proprietors.
Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 10:33 am

It is a scary world when “intellectual” is spat out as a derogatory term. It abrogates those making the decisions from accountability. We are constantly told that the people in the pub aren’t interested in modelling or cost benefit analyses or any evidence at all it would seem. Barnaby says it is cold in Canberra so global warming can’t be true. Pauline says some people have told her that wind farms make them sick so we must ban them. Ignorance is bliss apparently.
HarquebusApril 20, 2017 at 11:39 am

“words are meaningless if you keep digging up more carbon and selling it to people to burn” This excerpt is in relation to Canada’s tar sands.
“Which is a fine thing to say – or would be, if your government wasn’t backing plans for the largest coal mine on Earth. That single mine, in a country of 24 million people, will produce 362% of the annual carbon emissions that everyone in the Philippines produces in the course of a year. It is obviously, mathematically and morally absurd.” This one refers to us.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/17/stop-swooning-justin-trudeau-man-disaster-planet

Cheers.
diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 1:17 pm

Relating facts is not preaching.

Would a reasonable person ignore warnings of an impending flood by arguing, “what do others know, they don’t live here?”

The Earth’s atmosphere is changing due to the increasing level of green house gases such as carbon and methane.

To put the problem in perspective, here are some of the key numbers.

Humans have emitted 1,540 billion tonnes of carbon dioxide gas since the industrial revolution. To put it another way, that’s equivalent to burning enough coal to form a square tower 22 metres wide that reaches from Earth to the Moon.

Half of these emissions have remained in the atmosphere, causing a rise of CO₂ levels that is at least 10 times faster than any known natural increase during Earth’s long history. Most of the other half has dissolved into the ocean, causing acidification with its own detrimental impacts.

Although nature does remove CO₂, for example through growth and burial of plants and algae, we emit it at least 100 times faster than it’s eliminated. We can’t rely on natural mechanisms to handle this problem: people will need to help as well.

https://theconversation.com/we-need-to-get-rid-of-carbon-in-the-atmosphere-not-just-reduce-emissions-72573

The above link to Conversation article is not preaching it is a warning.

We can sit back, continue mining until Australia is just one big empty quarry, until PPM of carbon dioxide gas reaches levels where any action we take will be futile, justify wrecking a environmentally based industry (that’s tourism and related jobs) for the jobs of FIFO workers…. OK do that, but don’t whine when our climate changes irrevocably, when there are no more mining jobs, or tourism jobs or even viable agriculture because the climate changed faster than we did.
diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 1:28 pm

@ bbt_b_

The Greens do quite well thank you…

Riiiiiight…. The Greens a have leader who can toss a spare $1 million into the party coffers?… no wait that was Malcontent. The Greens have a single wealthy benefactor? Yes…and that’s wrong?

Finally, nation media campaigns cost far more that the Greens and related groups can manage. If you are going to express an opinion, it helps to base it on relevant facts.
Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 3:58 pm

The Greens collected $6 337 258.36 from the last federal election. Pauline Hanson’s One Nation Party collected $1 623 827.11 Even Derryn Hinch’s Justice Party collected $544 420.99. It’s quite a money spinner even for people who don’t win. Windsor and Oakeshott both got over $70,000 for the last election. Perhaps they invested much more than that. The money that is wasted on elections is staggering. The electoral commission paid out over $60 million to candidates after last election. Any person or party who gets over 4% of the first preference vote gets about $2.63 per vote.
diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 6:01 pm

Kaye Lee and any other interested AIMers

Below is a graph showing total spent on advertising for the 2016 election campaign.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-24/election-campaign-advertising/7400826

Too much spending – I would think so… likelihood of change to more austere party promotion? Unlikely.

What was the point again?

I was trying to point out the urgent need for Australian public to understand the facts, issues and consequences regarding climate and what we can to to mitigate further changes before tipping point. I believe expecting the LNP or even Labor to consider reality in their quest for governance to be a waste of time.

https://theconversation.com/what-climate-tipping-points-should-we-be-looking-out-for-27108
RhondaApril 20, 2017 at 6:27 pm

Hey Roswell, I am a Queenslander (but I don’t praise saints). The next election will put us in such a quandary – how to savage the current mob without being mauled by the other mongrels? That is the question.
Kaye LeeApril 20, 2017 at 6:35 pm

Tough call Rhonda I agree. A Green revolution?

Interesting diannaart. Imagine if they just used the national broadcaster for free.

I agree action on climate change is a priority that is not receiving the attention it must have.
burniebobthe_b_April 20, 2017 at 7:18 pm

diannaartApril 20, 2017 at 1:28 pm

@ bbt_b_

“The Greens do quite well thank you…}
As Kaye Lee pointed out “The Greens collected $6 337 258.36 from the last federal election.” plus they collected from every State election and in NSW that amounted to $2.7 million
Throw in all the other states and that is hardly chump change is it?
“The Greens have a single wealthy benefactor? Yes…and that’s wrong?”
no but considering they want to abolish or restrict donations to political parties it is a little bit rich to complain when other parties get smaller donations than they did you think?
As for a “A Green revolution?”
The next test is Queensland and the Greens are a non event in that state so can’t see the revolution starting yet but more just how the One Nation crowd will go
LOVOApril 20, 2017 at 10:47 pm

Kaye, I don’t think I’m getting my two dollars sixty three cents worth….. 😯
It certainly puts a new slant on “Government Business ” ?
diannaartApril 21, 2017 at 11:35 am

bbt_b_

The fact the Australian public needs to hear facts regarding saving the environment not your concern?

You want to argue about the Greens rather than our future?

Politics is made up of hypocrites – we have to do the best we can with what we have and I’d rather be supporting environmentally aware politicians than the likes of the LNP.

You did make one point with which I sadly agree – One Nation nutters will clean up in QLD elections – which is why we need a better informed public… so it goes…
Kaye LeeApril 21, 2017 at 11:42 am

LOVO,

We should demand a refund!

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