If there is one thing about Tony Abbott he loves a good fight. He reminisces proudly of his boxing days and of his ‘sledging’ days of his youth; citing this as his only ability as a cricketer. “I couldn’t bat, I couldn’t bowl, I couldn’t field, but I could sledge….”
He has a long history of attacking the Rudd and Gillard Governments as opposition leader. He has forever ingrained in history a record of attacking Julia Gillard as a person and as a woman to the point Gillard felt compelled to give her famous misogyny speech.
For this inherent trait of his ability to attack, degrade, sledge and harm he is hailed as a great leader by those who are loyal to the destructive cause, I will refer to for the purpose of this article as, “The Liberal National Coalition Government”.
Born in England, it is obvious that his heart and head rest snugly within the bosom of the Motherland. Since becoming Prime Minister he has made a number of ‘Captain’s Calls.‘ He has brought back the outdated practice of awarding Knights and Dames and he has awarded Prince Philip a Knighthood (probably one of the most bizarre moments in our history).
Abbott also ‘ignoramus-splained‘ Sydney to English Prime Minister David Cameron, by describing the history of Sydney as “nothing but bush” before British invasion and called pre-colonisation civilisation “extraordinarily basic and raw”.
In addition, leading up to his Prime Minister-ship he has left behind an “England-Loving” rhetoric permeated within his speeches:
“Contemporary Australia has well and truly – and rightly – left behind the old cult of forgetfulness about our indigenous heritage. Alas, there is a new version of the great Australian silence – this time about the Western canon, the literature, the poetry, the music, the history and above all the faith without which our culture and our civilisation are unimaginable” (Tony Abbott, 2013 on promising to repeal S18c of the Racial Discrimination Act.)
And
“This is what the poet Tennyson meant when he described England as “a land of just and old renown, a land of settled government where freedom broadens slowly down from precedent to precedent”. At least in the English speaking tradition, liberalism and conservatism, love of freedom and respect for due process, have been easy allies.” (Tony Abbott 2013 on his thoughts on Freedom when he becomes Prime Minister).
It could be argued that as he touched down on our shores from England all those years ago, he looked down his nose at the uncouth Aussie yokels playing around the streets and his English brain interpreted “Ava-go-ya-mug” in quite a literal sense. From that day forth, he has made ‘ava-go-ya-mug’ his main aim. Not to put in an effort as the Australian colloquialism suggests, but his literal interpretation to “Have a Go”. From this day forth he has been shadow-boxing, and sledging and ‘having a go’ at almost anyone and anything. However, he is quite resourceful. He cannot physically do this all on his own; so he has lit little fires all over the place, to ensure Australians are at war with each other. Let’s recap on this short 19 month history of squawking and leading through divide, conquer and stigmatisation.
. . . and today, let’s take a look through the round window shall we . . .
Stay at Home Mothers vs. Working Mothers
Mothers have had to endure this war of work or stay at home, since mothers participated in the exchange of real money for their labour. (I know, it is astounding for some that the labour of mothers can actually have monetary value when they do so much for free!) In 2013, Abbott had put SAHM’s on a pedestal, promising them better incentives than the existing Labor Policy through the coalition’s Paid Parental Leave scheme. He described the PPL as “A pro-child, pro-family, pro-growth policy.” He also cited the PPL as the panacea for the discrimination that women do not experience in Australia.
“I don’t think women suffer legal discrimination and I don’t think anyone these days sets out to do the wrong thing but it is very difficult for women to combine work and family if they don’t have a fair dinkum paid parental leave scheme and that’s going to change very soon under the Coalition.” (Tony Abbott, 3AW September, 2013).
Abbott has now dumped the PPL and favours working women, rather than stay at home women. Pitting these warring mothers against each other of who is the most deserving of Government support.
The Unemployed vs. The Ignorant
The Abbott Government has had an absolute field day with their agenda of stigmatisation of the unemployed. From implying they are lay-a-bout drug taking bludgers who must be tested, to proudly advocating that these lazy good for nothing loafers should #Starve4AMonth (previously known as #Starve4SixMonths). This has created a public derogatory rhetoric from the ignorant who are convinced by this agenda of stigmatisation. Online we see a war where Jobseekers try to defend themselves from the barrage of insults fuelled by the Abbott Government’s narrative and policy agenda.
The Bigots vs. Muslims / The Bigots vs. The Left
The Abbott Government’s ‘War on Terror’ narrative and policy decisions have created quite a visual and vocal war between bigots and Muslims and bigots and the Left, with the Patriot movements now calling to ‘crush the left’ as well as vilify Muslims. The leaders of these movements have even taken to supplying followers with free distance education into ‘Who the enemy is – The Left’ and About the Left (Please watch these videos so you are enlightened by the absolute misunderstanding and confusion of political ideology as used in Australia, a general embarrassing stab at the underlying sociological constructs of the Left and some other weird conspiracy tidbits including the misuse of the Freemason’s symbol and a fat snowman-like capitalist).
Muslim women have been attacked in public and there has been a rise of the far right movements such as Reclaim Australia, United Patriots Australia etc. These groups are egged on by the silence from the Government against the rise of these movements. There have been violent clashes in the streets and more are to come.
The Government is purposely ignorant if it does not see how their narrative on national security inflames these movements. The theme of the Abbott Government is Nationalism purported through ‘secret border security measures’ participating in abhorrent and inhumane treatment of asylum seekers and now the argument to cancel dual citizenship at the whim of a Minister’s discretion. Why should these movements not believe they are above the law when the Government believes they are too?
These movement are extreme movements. They now are widening their ‘target group’ from Muslims expanding to include anyone associated with ‘the Left’. This is a serious concern as not only are their arguments against Muslims very unsound; their attacks on people associated with the left (as you can see from videos posted above) are also fraught with extreme confusion of even the most basic political ideology. The next step will be to broaden the attack on more groups of people. We have already seen beginnings of this with Indigenous people being attacked and derided. Yes, we have seen this all before, somewhere around the time of the fall of the Weimar republic; yet Abbott appears to be enjoying this war as it gives voice to his Nationalism rhetoric of fear and disharmony.
First Australians vs. People who arrived later
Despite being the self-proclaimed “Minister for Indigenous People” Abbott has also lit fires through his discourse relating to Aboriginal people. He has cut funding to Aboriginal legal aid and other Indigenous organisations and proposing a ‘special Work for the Dole scheme 50 hours a fortnight, five days a week, 12 months of the year for remote Aboriginal communities. He supports the closure of remote Indigenous settlements and has infamously stated that ‘living in a remote community is a lifestyle choice.’ Through his actions and discourse, the conversation between Australians is not a positive one. It is one where a war rages between Indigenous people, those who stand with Indigenous people and against those who believe through Abbott’s narrative that ‘Australia simply cannot afford the Nation’s First People’ and that Indigenous people are a burden to the taxpayer.
Men vs. Women
Yes, there is a war raging between men and women. This war is not a general war, but it is specific to the issue of domestic violence. Tony Abbott has given so many women a glimpse of hope that finally, yes finally in Australia women fleeing in terror from their partners will have some decent support and the expectation of a safe environment. However, the glimpse was nothing more than that. This quickly turned into lip service as Abbott has continuously shut down debate and pulled funding from domestic violence and preventative services. This has in turn seen a war rage between men and women as more and more women are voicing their stories and protesting online. Some men are quite indignant that they suffer domestic violence in the same manner and at the same prevalence or even more than women. Male victims too are feeling ignored and not supported and the victims, both men and women are fighting each other instead of the Government.
Tony Abbott fuels this war by giving a glimmer of hope and then taking it away. He has fuelled this war by not investing in research, not investing in preventative services, not ensuring positive debate is heard from both men and women and not investing in safe and supportive services for victims of domestic violence; which has left so many who were given a voice for just one moment, screaming out for help.
It’s Time for the Warring Galah of Warringah to F . . . fly away
These are just a few examples of how the Warring Galah of Warringah is squawking his message of divisiveness and disharmony to the nation. These are just a few examples of how he uses sledging to stigmatise minorities and how he uses policy and narrative to appeal to the emotions of those driven by fear and to entrench a Nationalistic psyche in the war on terrorism; and those who fear using their tax dollars to assist even the most desperate groups of people in society.
These are just a few examples of how the Warring Galah of Warringah starts wars between Australians. Gough Whitlam used the phrase ‘It’s Time’ after a long period of stagnant conservatism within Australia. Yet, here we are just 19 months post election and we can see it is once again Time.
It’s Time to bring back the Fair Go. It’s Time to bring back the hand up. Its Time to bring back togetherness and standing up for a mate. It’s Time for tolerance and friendship and It’s Time for uniting Australians as one and most of all It’s time for leadership with heart.
Originally published on Polyfeministix
An excellent summary of what is going on. This should be widely distributed. I do not think that Abbott is a loyal Briton either as he shows total disregard for what made Britain so important, namely the concepts stated in Magna Carta and the constitutional settlement of the Glorious Revolution of 1688. He has shown by his demand that a politician should have the right to impose exile upon free persons on the basis of suspicion, without due judicial process, as a supporter of untrammeled executive authority a la Charles I and his nasty old daddy. The days of divine right monarchy are dead and he should not be allowed revive them. Such a slide is surely treason according to the 1689 Bill of Rights.
Thank you. Very important points. Thanks for raising them.
Trish, you’ve caught us in “Monday Night” mode- currently for example QA is on and well into at least some of the issues you have raised, such as arbitrary removal of citizenship, gender politics and consent manufacture. Don’t despair, more people will comment as the evening draws on.
Not everyone will comment, because, like some of the folk on QA, they are not as well educated as yourself and lack the native intelligence to recognise the connections and the bigger picture that someone like yourself identifies, as is plain in your writing.
Bear with us.
We WILL return ( when our tempers have settled ).
Paul, I shall take that as a compliment. Thank you. I hope people enjoy the read.
Back sooner than thought.. just watched the Labor rep (yes, Labor!!) endorse the secretive TPP in the teeth of withering and coherent excoriation of it from another panelist and members of the audience and no, my temper is more unsettled than just previously, not less.
You could expect Tories to support a TPP because it is an element of total class war against the 99% world wide, but what do you do when the supposed “workers party”, Labor, sits there and endorses it ?
TV is OFF, am off for a walk in the cold night air… go ‘WAY, teh stupids!!
I may be wrong Trish, but I don’t think the Australian public generally (a majority), are going to buy this current barrage of terrorist, national security clap trap, especially coming from a person such as Abbott. I think most of us now are in a position to make objective judgements about Abbott’s prorities and objectives. The next few opinion polls will tell us either way.
I hope you are right John. I read and analyse a lot of social media discourse and it isn’t sitting well with me at present.
Good news that Dick Smith is going to stand against Abbott in Waringah!
Howard lost his seat so there is a precedent!
Let’s hear it for Dick Smith. Then let’s go after the citizenship issue. I am not a naturally angry person, but I want revenge here because this arsehole claims on the world stage to represent me and you. I also look forward to the full Wikileaks posting of the TPP papers. We have to stop this slide into totalitarianism
Hear Hear!
@ Trish … while much of your article is well written and correct – e.g. the specific horrors this government is ‘attempting’ to inflict ( hasn’t been too successful up to date – the Senate rejects most of it ) …. I do NOT and cannot go along with the idea of ‘war’ between Australians. …. that conjures up a vision of total anarchy and riot on a continuing and daily basis.
The so called ( originally ) “Reclaim Australia” fell in a big hole, so it re-invented itself into “United Patriots Front” ( bah humbug ) … which also will fall in a big hole. …. These ideologies might seem a great idea for an enth of time – but tomorrow brings new thoughts to a huge % of Aussies. ….Australians move on to living their lives. ,,,, THAT is our strength.
I would hope that a very large majority of Australians ( no matter their ethnicity or political persuasions ) are a total wake up to media beat up. …. From many discussions I have been involved in, they are indeed a wake up to it. …. It doesn’t really matter if A channel is pro right, or B channel is pro left. … We watch, or we turn off, and often we laugh. …. Some of us cry. … and a small few get a bit nasty about it.
The previous days’ tv newscasts of riots and horses with facial protection, and bods belting one another, police wielding batons or whatever, fade into the non-existence that they deserve. … which is precisely why these factions keep on re-inventing themselves ……… until they finally give in and collapse.
“War” is not prevalent in our society … not by any means. … It could happen if this gov’mint remains in power for a lot lot longer and continues on its current path. … But I doubt it. …. Australians are a very laid back people. … Just because we see more accidents on our roads, more uproars between police and protesters, more incidences of road rage, more incidences of violence – on our screens – does not give an overall picture of the average day to day life of the average Australian – from low to high income bods.
We are shocked at the time, and perhaps ( dangerously ) somewhat de-sensitised to it all. … we get so much of this crap on our daily screens – AND at a time when many children are around, absorbing it ( another subject for another time ).
…………….
p.s. …. I also agree with John Kellys’ comments on this article. …. He said it in many fewer words than I have. !
Good lord if Labor supports the TPP we are in big trouble.
No matter which way you look at it it is completely undemocratic.
The effort to re-frame democracy in the guise of corptocracy is frightening.
Is this why Labor is remaining silent.
I just don’t get it.
This is really pissing me of.
Further to Trish ~ ~ ~
As for the sub-heading “Men vs. Women”……. Domestic violence is an abominable situation – no question on that. …. However, it has been going on for centuries ( not an excuse by any means ) …. I only question that, as it is ages old. … Can we NOW do something pro-active about it —- absolutely YES. … Is it going to happen quickly – NO ( unfortunately ). …
Another thing ,,,,,,,,
“Despite being the self-proclaimed “Minister for Indigenous People”
Abbott has also lit fires through his discourse relating to Aboriginal people.”
While the abbot has indeed lit fires, insulted and at times utterly degraded indigenous people, he did not make himself “Minister for Indigenous People” … he did proclaim himself “Minister for Women” ( which is an insult ) …. but invented the ” Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council. ” …. to placate indigenous and others outrage at his treatment of them, without having any input whatosever from himself, in any ministerial role. …. Typical ?
…………….
The Warringah Galah should have his wings clipped right down – and be segregated from the flock. …..
Annie, thank you for your comments. However, I feel you are taking the word “War” in the literal sense of bombs, guns, anarchy. The term warring and ‘at war with each other’ also mean intense conflict, argument, profound disagreement. A husband and wife can be engaged in ‘warring.’ This is what the word means within this article. To say that this is not happening in our society is simply not true.
If you read any forum of any newspaper, facebook posts, twitter conversations; you will see this ‘warring’ occurring between the groups as I have discussed. I haven’t just plucked these scenarios out of thin air. I have analysed conversations over a period of time and also have a theme of narrative in many of my blog posts, particularly to do with the stigmatisation of those on welfare. I recently worked on the QLD election campaign and I spoke to a wide variety of people who also shared the same sentiments as many online. Australians may be laid back people, but there are also very vocal and prominent sectors of our society who are quite racist, bigoted and have very derogatory views of those on welfare. I am gathering from your comments that you do not believe social media gives a true representation of public opinion (I’m not sure what you mean by on our screens – does not give an overall picture of the average day to day life of the average Australian – from low to high income bods). The literature in this area is divided; however consensus is that SM does represent a wide cross section of people in society. However, when researching, it is important to seek out a variety of demographics online, which I do. For example, if I just read Labor friendly commentary, I would not get the best possible picture of what people are saying.
As a qualitative researcher, I strongly believe narrative to be a powerful tool and that narrative can and does shape society. For example, can you imagine the public narrative if Abbott lead with a positive voice. Enabling people rather than the derogatory terminology and commentary he and his party engaged in about the disadvantaged? If you watched Qanda tonight; I hope you can see the difference between the discourse used by Dr. Cornel West and the narrative Tony Abbott uses.
I truly believe Abbott’s agenda is to stigmatise and divide. Essentially he is enabling a class war.
I have very sincere concerns about the ‘Reclaim Australia movement’ They are not as small as you appear to believe. They are quite active and their language is getting more and more aggressive towards the “Left” who now appear to be their main target group. They believe that anyone who stands up for equality or against discrimination of Muslim people hates the country. Which as discussed on Qanda tonight by Dr. Cornel West is flawed logic. They talk of ‘crushing the left’ and ‘winning Melbourne” (whatever that means). They are organising mass rallies with assistance and possible funding to gather people far and wide to make their voice known. They say that the left do not understand their cause, but you cannot listen to their videos or read their posts without cause for concern. Many extreme radical groups begin as fringe groups. As a true leftist; I firmly believe in a person’s right to protest. I also firmly believe people should align themselves with whatever political group they wish to engage in. But do it with a full understanding of that political party and do it with conviction. For example, if the ideology is ingrained in bigotry – own that and say why you own that. Don’t shy away from it and say you are not bigoted. However, I do not believe in a person’s right to protest with the aim to harm, inflaming violence through aggressive terms such as ‘crushing’ and ‘beat them’ and then posting video after video of very flawed understanding of basic political ideologies; to create mass hatred against a group and label this group as a target. That is not protesting. That is a targetted assault on a group of people. I think if you looked a little deeper, you will see this movement growing quite rapidly and to me it is a concern.
@stephen tardrew …
I absolutely empathise with your frustration. …. I feel it daily, myself.
Something however, niggles constantly at me. … Bill Shorten, while a charming, smiling and open / honest looking character with a face to match, is let down by his rather whiny type voice. …. it does not sit well with most … like listening to a soprano singing 1/4 of a note off key.
On that score he needs some elocution lessons. .. Yet get him delivering a speech, he never wavers – and rarely has to refer to notes. ….. Pity most of the general public don’t get to see it.
The man did not get where he is, without being a tough nut. … His background is ‘union’ – tough stuff. He has been involved in two shifts of power within the Labor party … not something to be admired, by any means. One could say dishonorable, in fact. ( but who in politics is honorable ? )
So – we have a kind of dishonorable bod at the helm of the ALP, from his history. …and at the same time, we have this quietly spoken, charming in his manner, deliverer of good speeches to nobody ( the LNP leave en masse when he is speaking ) … and well, nothing much more so far.
What … I have to ask, is he sitting on – waiting for. …. I will bet big, that he’s playing cat and mouse. ,,,, Just waiting for the mouse to make the biggest wrong move. Then pounce. … The mouse has made many wrong moves to date, but has not yet quite crossed over the line, politically speaking. ,… He’s crossed it many times in peoples’ opinions, but perhaps not strictly politically…
the p m utters – then retracts. …. It’s like watching a game of all in poker for the highest stakes. Just hope the quiet one wins – in the long run.
Remember ? …. it’s the quiet ones you have to watch out for. !! 😉
Great blog as usual Trish .P Walter,mentions Q+A tonight,I am also more upset than usual after trying to sit through same,The real horror of coming face 2 face with a couple of real one eyed rusted on Lnp supporters.One being the Anti Triggs member of the audience,the other being the rabid catholic Anti Equal Marriage persons.Don’t they believe in separation of State and Religion?I have no truck with any RADICAL religion,but I respect their right to their belief,I personally would not enter any same sex relationship or marriage.Having said that,I also believe democracy is majority rule,so sometimes my preferences are voted down e.g. this mockery of a government,In my case I have by law I have to wait until an election,Where as the anti same-sex will not be subject to or obliged to change their religious view.
In an aside question,Does any one else see the irony of Magna Carta celebrations being held at this time,with this most undemocratic Government in Australia.Also,if rabbid so intent o removing citisenship of others he should show proof of having renounced his english citisenship ,requirred for election as Member of Parliament,real legal proof,not on his word,which we all so sadly is NOT worth any thing…………….
Annie, I stand corrected – He didn’t make himself Minister for Indigenous People; but he did self-proclaim:
“…for It is my hope that I could be, not just a prime minister, but a prime minister for Aboriginal Affairs. The first I imagine that we have ever had.”
Thanks Michael. I have concern with religion when it is used to inflict harm on others. Any type of extreme or radical religion which uses fundamentalism as the basis is a cause for concern. We can see how this is evident in politicians such as Cory Bernardi, Fred Nile and Kevin Andrews. As a woman who is attracted to men (on a scale from classic nerd to rugged footballer) I too would not personally engage in a same sex marriage; however I cannot fathom how anyone could stand in the way of legitimising though marriage the same love they have for their partner as I do for my husband. With regard to the Magna Carta – considering the current political issues at present, it will make for very interesting Qanda viewing indeed. And yes! He need to clarify if he currently holds dual citizenship. (My personal thought is I would be shocked if someone who has so desperately wanted to be the PM would not have their t’s crossed and i’s dotted. However, in saying that I have a suspicion that this may not have been done prior to him taking his seat as an elected member or when the ruling came in whichever was first. So he probably is not now; but there may be a period in history where he was an MP and carried dual citizenship. (That is my theory anyway).
A closer read of Trish Corry, expresses largely my view point. Annie B, you are too generous with them (the gov). The same game was played during the Howard years and also on multiple fronts, there is no doubt the Abbott game is to create as much strife between the various sub groups of Australians to turn them against each other and distract them from a series of totalitarian policies involving economics and pol econonomics- the demolition of habeas corpus, an end to transperancy/openess with (small) government at the beck and call of globalising, financialised capitalism, dumbing down of media and education and the reintroduction of feudalistic macro and micro existential conditions.
Amplified by the Murdoch Media, unopposed by a now muted public and broadsheet press/media sector, out of this chaos he steps forward as the Man of Destiny, arms folded (khaki shirt) to set about restoring order like a caped crusader, via arbitrary detention, unlimited surveillance, scapegoating of a whole carousel of minorites from asylum seekers through gays to the unemployed, and many others- Trish gave a myriad suite of examples down to an information free education system and msm.
Very glad am getting older, but very, very sorry for humanity, as the likes of Orwell, Huxley (or Atwood more recently) must have felt as to what drove various dystopic classics.
Trish quickly mentions the ramping up of internet battles on gender issues, asylum seekers and race and similar issues. I’ve noticed the same thing and agree that it because people who are now waking up to the fact that the reactionary agenda is no joke are now scrapping to avoid being the mug who misses out during the latest bout of musical chairs.
But wait, another comment..michaelfromtoowoomba. Yes, the first few questioners were fearful..the old bigot on citizenship, that fearsome Albrechtsen clone on gay marriage and catholicism and another rattling off Tea Party guff about being able to sack gays. And so right, we are ruled by a foreigner who think he is Longshanks or Billy the Conquerer.
Trish ….
Thank you for your reply, and in most instances I take your points. …. I will try to be concise, but in doing so, please do not be offended … it will be points a – b – c etc.
a) … bombs, guns, anarchy. …. Bombs and guns – no. Anarchy however, is a possibility here. .. Guns and bombs do happen, and we see those happenings in all their glory on our newscasts. Overall, however, it is small – at this time. Revolution might be a better word for me to use at this time, which can lead to outright anarchy, and is a distinct possibilty.
b) … Don’t see a husband and wife donnybrook as ‘war’ ( in its strictest meaning ) …. a skirmish, an argument, a battle over a domestic issue. … Small potatoes hopefully – and very VERY different to domestic violence.
c) … No way do I think you pluck scenarios out of thin air. … I know it takes painstaking research to put together a good honest article. I am in the midst of writing a novel – and the research I have to do, is awesome ( and tiring ).
d) … We are % wise, mostly a laid back mob – ( too much so ? ) …. but I know bigots, racists, – in fact they reside in my own family – and I am disgusted with that. … I have not overlooked that at all.
e) … ‘on our screens’ ! … to answer your query. The MSM live on the old mantra ‘if it bleeds, it leads’. … and so we get a daily dose of factual nasties, that we must not be sheltered from. … But – It is horridly sad when a person dies from a disease that sweeps a nursing home ( personal experience )… terrible for a family ( who are often then asked ridiculous questions by the media as to how they feel about it, which did not happen to us ). I strongly object to these intrusions – but there’s nothing one can do about it except tell the media to go to bloody hell. …. If they’d approached me, that’s exactly what I would have said – only worse. !
Likewise, a traffic accident. …. reported by the media … This is a terrible thing that happens to one family, not to the overall population en masse, or a sad death from serious medical neglect or incompetence – these events do not discriminate between low, middle or high income families …….. That is what I meant.
f) … Social media invites every corner of humanity, one way or another. … there are those who post only good – positive thoughts, others who break out with bad, sad and negative stories … and there’s political comment. … Most commenters to political content on SM do a lot of venting. …. Most say how they feel, but at the same time drill the boots in, no matter which party is being discussed. …So there is a cross section e.g. Labor vs. Liberal … and an argument breaks out which can go on for ages. … Verbal ‘war’ then does indeed happen, and I doubt there is much value in any of it. …. It drifts off eventually, like yesterdays newspaper.
g) … I am a very firm believer in communication. … I wouldn’t be here if I thought otherwise. Communication is often spontaneous, in the case of say, an unexpected phone call. … Narrative is very important, but is a considered writing, text, email or phone call, with a specific aim. Narrative tells a story. Narrative can come into communication – depends on the people involved.
h) … “I do not believe in a person’s right to protest with the aim to harm, inflaming violence through aggressive terms such as ‘crushing’ and ‘beat them’ … etc. “ …. Neither do I Trish, neither do I.
31st May 2015 – ABC News – in Richmond, Victoria …. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-05-31/violent-rally-in-richmond/6510230 …. not worth visiting the link, as it only shows a photograph and the words I have put into parenthesis here. ( Around 70 members of a Reclaim Australia splinter group clashed with 300 anti-racism protesters. ). It was tending violent ….
Splinter groups are a worry, although they are depleted in number, and therefore weaker. …. but if they continue, there could and would be more frequent uproars in smaller groups – intent on disruption and disturbance. …. However, in the above instance, the anti-protesters outnumbered them hugely x 4 – and that surely must be a deterrent – and very deflating to the ‘reclaimers’ or ‘patriots’.
However, in this unstable political climate, if the ‘reclaims’ do disintegrate, there will be some group to take their place. Unfortunately, I believe we will see more and more of this kind of event – and all kinds of people taking up the cudgels for whatever their fancy is – at the time. …. This kind of thing spreads like a disease.
So yes, I agree with you there – it is of concern – great concern in fact.
i) … ” if Abbott lead with a positive voice. ” …. the narrative would be decidedly different – yes, but sorry Trish, it will never happen …. he is incapable of leading in such a way. ….
And no – I did not watch Q & A – but can later, on my computer.
………..
To your other comment ….. interesting the last line there. Does not surprise me that the p m might like to be master over all — ( Aboriginal peoples as well ). … The main thrust is he’d be the ‘first’ to ever be in that position. …. Far more important to him to ‘win’ – be ‘first’, than the actual position. !!
Hi Annie, thanks again for your comments. I am not annoyed. Rude and arrogant or abusive people are probably the only type of comments which annoy me; but then you can just move past those anyway. I don’t get annoyed at readers who actually read the article, whether they agree or not. I appreciate they have taken the time to read and also engage.
A & B) With the term warring – I can’t change the definition of the word. In this instance it means as per what I clarified previously. It does not mean war or even revolution. However, warring is certainly an underlying construct of revolution. As per my article, I believe we need an “It’s Time” revolution.
C) Just clarifying because some bloggers do just write opinion. I always complete research for mine. Congrats on writing your novel. I am part of an online writing community webook. You may enjoy this group. They have regular monthly competitions as well and is a small community.
D) If we allow bigots and racists to be a dominant voice, it will shape society. This is the passion behind a lot of what I write about.
E) Ok.
F & G) I disagree here. I think the narrative whether expressed at backyard BBQ’s, in workplaces or supermarket checkouts or comments made online can and does shape opinion and society. Particularly now a lot of our communication when we discuss social and political issues is online. Narrative and discourse analysis are accepted research methods. Any academic research I have published previously is qualitative. There are pros and cons for all research methods. However, some quantitative researchers may disagree with that.
H) The video I linked was just to demonstrate violent clashes. If you take a look at their videos, including the latest group of videos; they patriot groups are all now ‘uniting’ and the main target is not ‘the Left’. They have stated in a recent video that they have outnumbered counter protesters in all cities except Melbourne.
I). See responses to F & G
Thanks again for your comments.
Taking time to digest both Trish’s excellent analysis and thoughtful and honest comments from the AIMers.
I will be back (hopefully).
Wow. Thanks Trish for pointing me to Blair Cottrell’s sadly confused and muddled talks about the Left being the big evil menace to Australia (and the world). I am unable to load his youtube page, but was able to view the videos. Very sad and disturbing. There as a link to the facebook page of NDPAU on what part of the page I could see. That was even more scary. The things they say there could have easily been lifted from Hitler’s speeches. They go on about the importance of Nationalism, the family, christianity, and vilify other religions, left-leaning sentiments, and support of the weak. I wrote a response to them, though I know it will never be shown. People with those kinds of convictions will not tolerate anything that might give pause in their pursuit of hate. Here is what I wrote:
The thing I find most upsetting is the way Tony Abbott is enabling this by spouting his own hateful, anti-science, anti-history diatribe. I really don’t think Tony Abbott has a plan in this; I don’t think he is that smart. I do think the IPA has a plan, but its “thinkers” are not smart enough to see the long-term effects of their actions. They are focussed on near-term goals, like freeing up the “free market” from anything that might restrain it. If they were truly smart they would have seen how unrestrained markets malfunction and how some restrictions are needed to ensure a few powerfully bad apples don’t wreck the market for everybody. We are being set on a trajectory by morons who think they are smart — people who think intuition is a good substitute for genuine information. And they are being enabled by the biggest moron of all: a man who makes George W Bush look almost reasonable.
We need to find ways to loosen Murdoch’s corrupt hold on our media, after all, he is largely to blame for all this, and we need to oust Abbott, stupid, nasty twerp that he is, and get back to making Australia the lucky country again.
Thank you Trish.
Scary stuff methinks.
@AnnieB. Lighten up, kid. We may not be at war with one another in the traditional sense, but when we are affronted by so many different sources at once it is impossible to know who to trust, and therefore we all get defensive about our own positions, even when we all think exactly the same thing.
abbott and his ilk are just embarrassing. To have him/them as my representatives to the world makes me so angry, and frustrated.
Our pm hiding his own dual citizenship behind the laws of the land is wrong. It is a put -up or piss off situation, and if he had what we are asking for he would flaunt it in our faces. (Manus is where “illegal” immigrants get sent I believe. He can share a room with murdoch)
“Mr Smith also called for an end to the “pathetic political strutting” in Canberra, urging MPs to pass laws to legalise same-sex marriage.
The aviator, conservationist and philanthropist has lambasted all sides of politics for bickering over who or which party should have “ownership” of gay-marriage legislation, and says Prime Minister Tony Abbott should show some leadership on the issue.”
http://www.afr.com/news/politics/national/dick-smith-v-tony-abbott-famous-aussie-considers-tilt-at-pms-seat-20150608-ghiuam
Miriam and Trish …
I have seen a lot of miserable garbage on YouTube before – but Cottrells’ puerile ravings takes the cake. …. contradictions, and so many holes in his ‘presentation’ – it’s like a sieve. …. Doesn’t hold water, ( as the saying goes ) – and is useful only for grinding down into tiny particles.
If there was anything to be pleased about, it was the number of views it has attracted !! … 287 on the first, and 108 on the second – less than 400 ( which includes those of us here, who have opened the links ).
This flawed individual has got hundreds of thousands more ‘views’ to catch, before ‘he’ catches on. … It is sad to see one so young, with such warped ideas. …. however, as several have noted, here and elsewhere – it takes a fringe group to morph into a swell. …. On the other hand, being so obviously undermanned, it is also quite likely to die a natural.
At least we can hope that happens. …. otherwise, it IS scary stuff. … Particularly alarming to think that anyone would or could, take the slightest bit of notice. …. But a few surely will.
There will always be nutters out there who do this kind of thing – fact of life – and long before computers – even going back to communication on papyrus ( !! ). Behoves us to remember ( how could we forget ) that the main instigator of this current rebellious kind of thinking is the spokesperson for the gov’mint – ( AND his mealy mouthed mates in the cabinet ).
That oh so mature creature at the head of things. … the bloke who should have remained in the seminary to complete his holy ambitions.
https://redflag.org.au/article/federal-budget-exacerbates-poverty
DanDark, thanks for the pointer to an interesting article.
It’s a great pity that we seem to be following in the footsteps of the developed world’s most damaged society, the USA. However, some people over there do understand, so there is some hope.
What happens when you tax the rich and raise the minimum wage? Meet one of USA’s best economies. This is a short article about the billionaire heir to the Target fortune who married into the Rockefeller family, but nevertheless understands the insanity of sacrificing the poor to give the rich ever-greater tax breaks. His efforts to fix that in Minnesota, USA, has given that state a miraculous economic recovery and made it one of the most prosperous in the country. (Most interestingly, it is right next to a crazily right-wing state which is suffering really badly because of their corrupt Tea-Party economics.)
Perhaps when it becomes impossible to ignore the evidence the IPA will lose their power over the LNP. I don’t hold out a lot of hope on that though. The evidence has been in for a long time that austerity crushes economies instead of fixing them, yet right-wing ideologues seem perfectly capable of ignoring it. Ideology has a strange way of blinding people to reality.
I never really understood how that works. My natural inclination is to be grateful when people point out when I’m making a mistake. That seems only logical. Why on Earth would I ever wish to continue to be wrong when I could correct it and be right? Yet many people absolutely refuse to acknowledge when they are wrong. They hold on grimly to their erroneous ideas as if their life or their personal identity depended upon it. For them the appearance of being correct seems to be far more important than actually being correct. It never seems to occur to them that by doing that they guarantee that they remain in error. I wish there was a technique to alert them in such a way that it would convince them to repair their view. It would save the world a lot of trouble. Racism, classism, sexism, homophobia, religion, nationalism, political belief, most of economic theory — all these could be eliminated if we had a way to get people to act on genuine evidence instead of ignoring it.
And here is another wealthy person in USA who gets it:
A Voice from the 1%
I wish more wealthy people here in Australia would be outspoken against the IPA and their stooges in the LNP.
Dick Smith speaking up (good on him!) is a beginning, but we need more.
No probs miriam here is another enlightening read
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jun/09/cornel-west-australia-is-on-the-path-to-us-style-fascism
Can we stop the out of control train, I don’t think so, I reckon we have gone toooo far for even any shift back to the center in this country.
We have had this attitude in this country “she will be right mate” for tooooo long and have left the door open for the ilk of Tony Rabbot and Co to be able to ” wreck the joint” literally.
People ask “how did we get to this ?” because we let them, we as a populace have been to trusting of our politicians and they have used this trust against the population and its now abuse of the population on a spectacular scale as we are seeing
from the worst corrupt lot of Neanderthals we have ever had in Gov….
Interesting article and opinions expressed here. I did as asked and took a gander at the youtube by that muscled up boof-head with a severe inferiority complex and now I’m annoyed I did. He had nothing to say, and proceeded to waste my time by saying it. I turned him off in under a minute and have regretted giving his page a ‘hit’ in numbers ever since. He’s welcome to his little moment in the digital ether but it is of no consequence. Smart phones, Youtube, Facebook etc have given such narcissists a platform like never before, and Mr Muscle, bless his cotton socks is doing his best.
The important issue is Tony Abbott’s narcissism and his inability to demarcate failure at the seminary from his failure as a worthy political leader. He conflates his sad physical persona with odd-ball religious opinions and then screws up completely when trying to exercise secular political power – hence the bloody mess he has made of everything he has touched, and more.
If Murdoch wants him in power and the US Republicans equally so (they pour $ into the federal Libs) and ditto the corporate elite’s, then he might squeeze past the electoral post with the help of a little false flag op – but his days are numbered and the nation will sigh in relief when he goes – but when Murdoch goes as he very soon will, then the entire western world will scream with joy at the final end of one of the most evil oligarchs of modern times.
Hi Miriam. Thanks for the comments and thanks for writing what you have to the Patriots; however they have an answer for everything, so it will probably fall on deaf ears. I’m not sure if we underestimate Abbott. It isn’t so much about being ‘smart’ it is an ingrained ideology. They look down their noses at people in the true sense of the word. It is entrenched in everything they say. You only have to listen to Hockey and his house price remark today. So out of touch it is unbelievable.
Hi Gangey1959. Thanks for you comments. I feel the same way. I feel quite embarrassed that Abbott represents us on the world stage. I often wonder what leaders like Obama and Cameron and Merkel actually do think of him. The dual citizenship of Abbott is certainly an interesting one. It will come to light I believe.
Dan – I think it is quite exciting that Dick Smith is going to oppose Abbott. Abbott is afraid to show leadership. He will alienate people either way.
Phi, thanks for your comments. I think if Murdoch doesn’t wake up soon and stop blindly supporting LNP; no one will be able to afford to buy his newspaper.
Trish, yep it is exciting that Dick is giving it a shot, but he is a rich white old male at the end of the day like the rest of them in Gov now
And I question if he is the right person to represent all, I see a conflict of interest between his ambitions and the good of the country
It is easy to say what people want to hear, but talking the walk is a walk in the park, compared to walking the walk
As humans we always want to take the easy way out, the first option that comes up is the easiest usually, but not always the right one, usually very rarely the right option is the first option/choice……
We need more women in Gov, there is no ying and yang, balance is the most important thing we need at this point, without balance its hard to function properly, and as we can see from this Gov they cannot function, nor can they function for the entire country when they have no balance in decision/policy making, we only have hard nosed Christian males who have a mentality of “born to rule”
Dan, things swing back and forth like a pendulum. It will definitely swing back the other way eventually. I just hope we can minimise the damage Abbott causes so that it doesn’t swing too far the other way. (Though if Labor regain power I worry that we will just get right-wing-lite instead of proper socially progressive change.)
One of the best things about Australia, in my opinion, was always our political apathy. The “she’ll be right” attitude meant we didn’t have the political assassinations or blood-soaked rebellions many other places have. Unfortunately the ultra-right-wing jerks who are manipulating things at the moment are taking advantage of that and upsetting the apple-cart. For almost the first time in my life (since Gough was sacked, and Howard’s “children overboard” lies) I’ve found myself frequently becoming furious at the imbecilic actions of the morons in charge. I wish it wasn’t so, and that we could go back to merely rolling our eyes at politicians.
Trish, you’re right about the born to rule attitude. It really is quite striking. I’m sure they feel that the country would be perfect if we just didn’t have all these “peasants” voting. They really seem to hate ordinary people and live in a privileged fantasy world.
Miriam I wish I could be more lets say optimistic, but the writing is on the wall, has been for a long while, its easier to deny things than take them head on, so yes we as a population have been in denial about the slipping standards of our politicians because its been easier to do that, and now we are where we are and the people who are paying are the ones that shouldn’t be,
but as a country we have become callous/nasty and we now own that proudly by the way we treat our asylum seekers, unemployed, single mums, disabled, first peoples, Australians are proud that we demonize/persecute these groups, just have to read peoples posts on their face book to see how the propaganda is being pushed by ordinary Aussies,
I cant wait for the broken pendulum to shift, I have a 9 year old daughter and this country is not safe for girls or women anymore as long as we have Aussies thinking its okay to persecute the most vulnerable in this country, Its sad very bloody sad, but I am getting my kids out as soon as possible….
On Murdoch,
My personal take is that Rupert started out with some prejudicial opinions.
The dictatorial nature of his editorial control meant that these opinions were repeated, reinforced and amplified by the syncophantic chorus of his employees, never the best or brightest in their profession.
This feedback loop worked to create the manipulative oligarchical ideologue we see manifested today.
His newspapers have long since ceased to be profitable enterprises, but he swallows the losses they sustain (amplified by ploys like free distribution to junk food outlets and cut-price rates at workplaces) in order to manipulate politics society and advance his own agenda, which is informed by the fictions he himself creates.
I also think that the prolonged instant of honest reflection upon his own life whilst facing imminent mortality will be an exceedingly painful revelation of the reality of his own legacy of deception and division, and the foul corruption of his own nature.
Dan, I don’t think you can really identify the whole of Australia with the monstrous nature of a very vocal minority. I think most Australians are appalled at the treatment of vulnerable members of society, but they don’t really speak up as much as perhaps they should. The nasty ones who feel threatened by their own views feel compelled to be vocal in order to justify their own cruelty to themselves and those around them. Don’t make the same mistake our idiot politicians make in assuming that noisiness equals number.
I understand your qualms, but don’t abandon Australia yet. Violence is, on the broader scale decreasing. It fluctuates, and Abbott is certainly doing his part to increase it just now, but on the whole it is decreasing. After Abbott is dumped we will hopefully get back on track to being a better place for our children.
Corvus, I think you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head with respect to Murdoch and his horrible rags.
However I severely doubt he will realise what a creep he is in his last moments. Never underestimate the power of self-deception. He’ll go to his grave still thinking he is a prince and did nothing wrong. Al Capone went to his death deluding himself that he was a great benefactor for humanity! Murdoch will do the same. The bigger the lies people tell other people, the bigger the lies they tell themselves.
Miriamenglish,
I do not under-estimate the power of self-deception (that combination of pragmatic rationalisation and perceptional delusion) in the day to day. However, common report from those who have dipped a toe in the river Styx(apart from the tunnel of light visual), is of a brutally honest flash-frame review of their own performance whilst drawing breathe, with the rose-glasses stripped away.
Rupert would be aware that he propagates and encourages lies, injustices, and even criminal acts. If he follows the pattern described by others at the edge of mortality, he will not go out at peace with his past deeds.
I am way too agnostic to subscribe to any theories of after-life judgement or eternal punishment, but hold that he will see, as he dies, what a conniving turd he has been, and have much cause for regret.
Some would call it karma.
Miriam 42 women have died this year already at the hands of a man/partner, the RC shows how pedophiles are deeply ingrained in society, I have dealt with a couple of them over the years too, just recently a female school teacher who is bad to the bone.
just 12 months ago I saved a young neighbor from being beaten by her ex partner holding her baby in her arms and her preschooler at her side…Her words on Face book that night, “Thank god for my neighbor who saved my life today”
I put my life literally on the line to help her, he was fuelled up on Ice but I stood my ground for long enough for the young girl to escape him and lock herself and the kids in her house, It was scary it was surreal and for split minute I thought I was going to be mince meat too.
its not going to get better in the next few years, we can hope it is but it wont, but I will do my best to help those in need like my neighbor till I get my family out…. There are better countries in the world.. Australia is stuffed…..
I don’t wish to minimise the seriousness of what you say. It is horrible that so many women are being killed in Australia and they have traditionally been vastly over-represented as murder victims — usually killed by their husbands, boyfriends, fathers, or brothers. Stranger-danger is mostly a mainstream-media fiction. And I applaud you for interceding on behalf of your neighbor. All drugs unbalance the human mind badly, and “ice” (methamphetamine) and alcohol seem to be two of the worst.
However don’t be stampeded into thinking things are worse than they are. Check out the crime statistics for Australia and the rest of the world. Australia is still one of the safest countries in the world, and getting safer as violent crime numbers (not just the percentage per head of population, but actual number of homicides) falls each year, even as our population continues to increase.
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
The same page but makes the list sortable:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#cite_note-UNODC2013XLS-7
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2015/02/05/national-murder-rate-hits-record-low
Those statistics only give numbers up to 2012. I have a feeling that the discord spewed by Abbott will have caused a small uptick in violent crime. Certainly increased poverty always increases property crimes, even though they generally trend downwards too. The fact is, that as a species we are becoming more peaceful, and more thoughtful of each other, and more moral. This is a trend that has been continuing over hundreds of years and isn’t likely to be stopped by even someone as carelessly sociopathic as Tony Abbott.
Beware of the mainstream media. They feed us awful misinformation. Creating fear and helplessness in the population suits authoritarians. It makes people easy to manage; they can be herded and stampeded in directions their “masters” want, and a fearful population tends to vote more conservatively.
Nice work miriamenglish
Cheers
Miriam I am a Psychic/Clairvoyant I have been for 20 years not that I divulge that info normally to anyone outside my close circle, because of the negative reactions from judgemental idiots mainly,
I am not talking up the dangers we face in this country they are real and with us and getting worse.
The cop said to me “you were brave for helping your neighbor”, I said “mate I was one of those little kids once and NO one helped my Mother” back in the 60s and 70s, yeah got better…not
I am able to get my family out and I will because I will not be told by anyone anymore “its okay” no its friggin not okay,
the country is in crisis and no one is doing anything…so time to hit the road 🙂
If you examine my comment carefully you will notice I wasn’t saying that everything is okay here (I’m surprised your psychic/clairvoyant abilities didn’t pick up on that). I was saying don’t be stampeded into thinking things are worse than they are by those who have much to gain in keeping you frightened. I am curious though, considering Australia is one of the safest countries in the world, where will you take your family? Many of the places that are safer even than Australia are less free and living is much more expensive.
I’d have thought it’s much better to stay here and depose the would-be king, Abbott; try to stop the growth of the surveillance state (less of a problem here than in many places around the world, though its danger should not be underestimated); and attempt to restore more of our rights and freedoms (we still have more than most people, but should nevertheless stop shitty politicians taking them away). Always remember that opinion and intuition are no substitute for honest facts, in fact they tend to work against them.
Whatever you choose, I wish you the best.
Yep Miriam same to you…Good luck and all the best,
and I am surprised you havn,t painted that step yet, but it will wait hey 🙂
I would also get that leaky tap looked at, a drip/s can turn into a torrent in a flash…..
Cheers
Good posts here Miriam … bringing sense – and sensibility to the discussion.
Getting rid of the main contender for introducing fear to the public ( which is sucked up on a daily basis ) is paramount. i.e. get rid of the abbot. … If it doesn’t happen that way, we will indeed be in for more violence, fueled by fear, the sense of injustice , and the insecurity that this rabid mob, currently in power, will continue to imbue.
Overall, considering the increase in population, and compared to recent times / decades / centuries – we are probably less violent. … But that is based on statistics. … Fear has certainly not decreased.
But have to say that intuition ( instinct ) can save the day on many an occasion. Simply believe one should always trust their instincts. … to not do so, is to invite trouble.
………..
@ DanDark …. despite your psychic abilities, I would seriously urge you to be prudent in your dealings with people under the influence of drugs of the worst kind – and also those under the influence of alcohol, in the future.
What you did for your neighbour was brave and just, but I have the feeling you were fortunate to get away with standing up to him. … However, you did – and good onya for that.
…………
Some years ago, I, along with all other Admin. staff at an eastern suburbs ( Victoria ) Shopping Centre was tutored for 3 hard months, in methods of dealing with fire, illness, intimidation, car parking rage, death ( of Centre visitors ), covert threat, threat by phone, and overt threat by gun, knife or bombs. … We HAD to learn that to be a part of the Administration of the Shopping centre …. and as first cabs off the rank in dealing with it, while authorities were called.
It is something I have NEVER forgotten. … To this day, I deploy my ( fortunately good ) peripheral vision, and the ways of mentally taking proper note of the look, height, colour, hair, clothing, attitude, and description of threat, before ( hopefully ) the authorities arrive. There is MUCH to it.
What I find most disconcerting is that I automatically, these days, employ those methods, more often – because of the types we encounter – on the street, in a supermarket, …. anywhere. … And that is not paranoia on my part….. Perhaps it DOES come from being trained. …. I don’t know for sure, but I know that it all automatically kicks in more frequently in recent times, than it ever has before. …. I don’t believe I am alone in this. ….
Recently, a nasty experience at my own front door, ( which I didn’t open – I let my dog do all the talking – and boy did she let her angst be known ) underscored how vulnerable I might be – when alone, to drug addled persons. ….. but my training kicked in, with covert observation as best I could manage, through a window not readily seen from the outside, in – my dog delivering threat, in my hands my mobile phone and a way out to the back garden – side gates locked. …. They ( 2 ) backed off, ( they had tried to get into my home, yelling threats to my dog. I believe Miss Ruby put them off big time ), and they ended up wandering down the middle of the road in an obviously drug affected state. Not the best of experiences.
Since that time, I have kept my safety wire door locked at all times … and I am even more careful of where and when I go. …. But … I / we shouldn’t have to be. …. this actually is a problem we will all face more of, unless we can see more hope for the future, more sense in the undertakings of Government ( any ), and the lessening of threat, fear, intimidation and eroding of our rights and our democracy, by the alleged leaders of our nation – at this time.
That’s all – – – it’s enough.
DanDark, please don’t read my following comment as being intended as snarky — it isn’t. I mean it without any emotional overtone at all. It is just information that I hope you’ll absorb.
I think your comments about my step needing painting and the dripping tap are meant to be an indication of your psychic abilities. It’s a pretty safe bet that any house has steps and a leaky tap, right? Unfortunately I have no steps in my house. And leaky taps? Well, yes, I have some, however I have a very low pressure gravity-fed tank system so it will never turn into a gusher.
Sorry, but there are no such things as clairvoyance and psychic abilities. I honestly think it would be great if they existed. Personally, I always wished that telepathy was real, but it isn’t. It is simple to disprove those things and they have been disproved countless times.
When you consider the equipment we use it clearly isn’t possible. The brain is a massively parallel computer constructed out of about 90 billion specialised nerve cells that do their job by virtue of which neighboring nerve cells they link up with. This circuitry’s nerves change state quite slowly (no more than about 12 cycles per second). They can’t possibly communicate “wirelessly” with another brain because meaning is encoded by position within the brain and there is no way to stimulate one or a small group of nerves in the brain without doing what the nerves themselves do: touch them physically. Electromagnetic transmission can easily be discounted. At 12 cycles per second an electromagnetic wave is 25,000 km wide — clearly not precise enough to pick out any arbitrary structure of one or several nerve cells perhaps a hundredth of a millimeter in size.
The “wiring” of the brain is set up to encode sensory information, but there is no input channel for a clairvoyant “sense”. In fact there is no way to stimulate it even if there was one.
I hope you take this in the honest manner I intend it. I don’t wish to upset you, though considering the way most people react to such statement I think chances are, you will be. I’m sorry. Integrity forces me to point out to you that you are making a grave mistake. Please remember how easily we can be misled by our beliefs and wishful thinking.
Yeah Cool Miriam, now piss off and leave me alone okay…..
Go find someone else to have a go at on here like you usually do
I am glad there are so many experts on Aimn like Miriam….NOT
Dan, please accept my apology. I tried hard to be clear that I wasn’t having a go at you. Obviously I failed and I’m sorry for that.
I’m certainly no expert. If I make a mistake I am eager to find out so that I can correct it. I have never understood why so many people are so fond of their errors. It just ensures they continue to make the same mistakes over and over. And failing to point out those errors in as friendly and non-judgmental fashion as possible seems to me irresponsible and patronising, like saying that someone isn’t capable of improving and that it is okay for them to not understand. I would hate it if I made some terrible mistake and people just stood by, feeling that I shouldn’t find out I’m wrong. That would be awful. This is why I posted what I did. It was genuinely done in good faith. I’m sorry my clumsy wording failed.
Anyway. I truly do wish you well, regardless.
@ Miriam E …
I don’t believe, for one second, you have to apologise to anyone here, on AIM Network. … No way –
You have made your comments and you have an absolute right to do so.
Most of your comments I agree with, but I have a couple of ‘hiccups’ myself about them .. Would not however, deliver a sermon or worse, a nasty worded rejoinder to them – but, I would profer a couple of other thoughts ( see further down ).
Again, you have every right to deliver your deliberations – just as DanDark has.
Responses are delivered…. be they right, or wrong. !!
************
Found myself a little lost in your post ( June 11, 2015 at 11:08 am ) as to the way the brain works. … that was above and beyond my capabilities to understand.
What I DO know is this …. given the incredible function of the brain, its’ synapses, neurons and extremely complex connections thereto ( which can go awry in the case of an epileptic – which I am ) … there comes a time that one has to see other possibilities, in perception or perhaps, understanding. .??
Such as, instinct.
I seriously believe we are all given the gift of instinct. … yet it is not something that can be readily described. … It is a ‘feeling’ ( perhaps ) or a warning ( perhaps ) from the inner being – that something should ( or should not ) be done, or acted upon. …
To disobey those instincts, can be disastrous ( personal experience speaking here ) . … and I believe it comes from a source that we simply do not understand. …. Perhaps ‘ the instinct of survival ‘ explains it – but not in any way, perfectly. ….. I doubt that we will ever understand what makes us stop ( in the face of danger ) or continue ( when it is safe to do so ) .. simplistic analogy, but it’s all I have.
…….
@ DanDark …… ‘ steps needing attention ‘ and ‘leaky taps’ happen to everybody ( taking you literally ). A fact of life. …. one could add so many events to the list of every day happenings that seem to be sent to annoy the shit out of us. …
But I do know what you are driving at there —– ! ….
……… May I ask that you both acknowledge one another, in good spirit – and move on ?
Might be a good idea – at that ….
All very worthy and considered comments.
Bugger that. I would just like to have been the bloke in the photo punching Tony Abbott in the head.
Understand your anger RoaminRuin ….
Have often wished I could meet the bloke face to face …….. I rather think it might make the headlines.
( yep – I have my dark side too !!! 😉 – ) …. don’t we all ?
Well said Annie B
My friends describe me as a pragmatist – in a good way, not a neo-con exploitative way. I think of myself as a logical atheistic person, however, there have been some occasions where I responded completely on my instincts – saved my life on those occasions. Just sayin’
Actually Annie, I may have more to apologise to Dan for than just failing to make clear I wasn’t having a go at him. I’ve just realised I may have got some of his message wrong. I tend to be very literal. I thought his comment about my steps needing painting and taps leaking were attempts to be clairvoyant and pointing to actual steps and taps. But I may have been totally off the mark. He may have been speaking metaphorically about the risk Abbott poses to Australia, the “house” we all live in.
I originally wasn’t going to say anything to Dan about psychic or clairvoyant stuff being a mistake, but later I remembered that this is one of the reasons those ideas persist: nobody says anything about it. It has somehow become accepted that one should simply let people be wrong. It is why religion gets a free pass so often when its errors should be illuminated at every opportunity. Years ago I lived in a share house and a girl used to ring up from time to time to talk to some of the other people there. The motor neurons in her brain were degenerating and her speech was gradually becoming harder and harder to understand. When I answered the phone I’d patiently ask her to speak slower and try to pronounce her words with more effort because I couldn’t understand what she was saying. I knew it was hard for her, but there wasn’t any point in pretending. She would become angry at me and tell me I was the only one who couldn’t understand her. Unfortunately I knew different. The others would cruelly joke among themselves that nobody could understand her. I thought that was awful. I was the only one who was honest with her.
I feel we owe it to people to let them know, as politely as possible, when they are wrong.
I thought I had been careful in my reply to Dan, but obviously I wasn’t careful enough. I can be a bit clumsy sometimes. Although, in my defense, it can be a bit difficult when people hold irrational beliefs, as they often think you are attacking them when you try to let them know of their errors. This is probably because it is quite common for people to use criticism as a kind of one-upmanship and feel as if they are lifting themselves up by putting others down. I’ve had schoolteachers who did that. And our politicians are often particularly nasty examples of it.
Anyway, enough of that.
Annie and Dianna, when you speak about instinct, am I right in thinking you’re referring to those times when we get spooked for no obvious reason? It may look like it is for no reason at all, but our brains are adapted to integrate enormous amounts of data, much of it without consciously registering. There’s nothing that can’t be explained by normal brain function there. This is made more interesting by the fact that we are very good at registering coincidences, but forgetting non-coincidences. We will remember the time we thought there might be a redback under some tin we were about to pick up and lifted with a stick to find there was one under it, yet we will forget all the times we’ve felt there’s something scary under an object, but there isn’t anything there. We forget all the times we are thinking of an old friend and they don’t ring; all the times when we are humming a song and it doesn’t come on the radio; all the times when we think someone is going to say something and it isn’t what they say. We are coincidence detectors because there is great evolutionary use in it. There is little evolutionary advantage in remembering non-coincidences. 🙂
Miriam ….
Speaking for myself – ( but perhaps Dianna means much the same ) – when referring to ‘instinct’ I mean that ‘sense’ that one receives – spontaneously, requiring instant response, without consciously thinking, or being aware of a conscious decision to be made. … It can happen any time …..or in a situation where everything appears normal and to go forward would be safe, but a hesitancy or stop occurs ( for no normal reasoned reason ) and it turns out that hesitation saves a life. It is instantaneous, an urge, a sudden inexplicable sense of ‘something’ – an intuition.
It is has nothing to do with coincidence, nor with being afraid or spooked. …. It is not clairvoyance,
pre-cognicence, nor can it be attributed to any psychic abilities. …. I rather think it comes from an innate sense of survival. … Something, despite the incredible ability of the brain, comes from somewhere else – the gut ? It’s often called gut instinct. …. Then again, it may well come from a corner of the brain that registers something not quite right, and transfers itself in a nano-second to an area of the body that must react ( or not ) ?
I have had quite a number of these ‘instinctive’ reactions to a situation, and am always enormously grateful for them. … On the other hand, if I disobey a strong instinct, I suffer for it. Not intense suffering, but am left thinking — ” serves ya right girl for not obeying your own intuition.”
I am not deliberately talking in riddles here, but can attest to these occasions, the strangest one being – in heavy traffic – single lane, approaching a railway crossing, everyone crawling at snail’s pace, cars sneaking across when there was room on the other side of the tracks, boom gates still UP. I stopped. Just like that, when to all intents and purposes I could have gone ahead, there was car room on the other side. Cars tooted, and I could see in my rear vision mirrors the irate driver directly behind me, waving his arm up and down out of his window. I could not move … This all took place in a matter of seconds, maybe only a couple.
The station was to the left, and the train track veered sharply right, directly to the right of the road. [ the damned crossing has been now built over – it was one of the worst in Melbournes’ suburbs ]
The boom gates had not even half closed when that train’s last carriage completed its fast pull into the station away to the left. … Some technical glitch had caused them to not work when they should have I expect. I had no knowledge of hearing it ( radio was on ) or seeing it – and cannot recall seeing the boom gates even slightly move. …. I tried to rationalise it afterwards ( I was extremely shaken I might add – as I’d have been on the track in front of that train, if I had done the ‘normal’ expected thing ) …. did I detect a slight movement in the boom gates, or to my right somehow ?. Did I feel a vibration through my wheels ? – – – – all 99.999% unlikely.
To follow your theories, what did my brain tell me ? …. and why then ?
I thanked my instinct, my intuition. If I were religious, I might have thought a guardian angel had stopped me. …. Well, for the purpose of the exercise, perhaps one did ? … I will never know what made me stop and freeze on the spot that day. …. ( SINCE then, I am overly cautious, especially on country roads at crossings … as you could imagine !! – now that IS the brain consciously working for sure ).
I trust this explains it.
miriamenglish,
A good start towards any happy reconciliation with DanDark would be the realisation that ‘he’ is ‘she’.
DanDark is a female person, proudly (and sometimes fiercely) XX chromosomed. 😉
Thanks corvus for the clarification. Sorry about my presumption.
Annie, replace what I said about thinking someone phoning or not phoning when you’d just been thinking about them, with feeling wary about a train crossing when a train did or didn’t appear.
We won’t think anything odd about feeling wary at a level crossing when there is no train coming. It is sensible to feel wary of it. We should. Feeling that way doesn’t raise any red flags. It is normal. We will only attach any real emotional importance to the time we felt wary when a train did show up; that will freak us out. Do you see what I mean?
We selectively forget, or attach less emotional weight to the non-events, the non-coincidences. When we do this we feel that something special happened there at the coincidences. In fact nothing unusual did. We do this all the time. It is the source of most superstition.
All day we are thinking of things that don’t happen, listening for things that we wrongly anticipate hearing, expecting something and it doesn’t eventuate, but we easily dismiss those. We probably have to, or our brains might become hopelessly cluttered. The trouble is, we see the single times when we felt something and it did eventuate as singular and important, when really it isn’t. It just gets magnified by our emotions. “Holy cow! I would have been killed if I’d taken that step”, “Amazing! I swear I was just thinking about you when you rang”, and so on. There is no emotional weight to stepping aside when I think there’s something there and there isn’t, so it’s quickly forgotten. We think of people all day and it fades into the background as no coincidence features them.
I should clarify something here. I think all superstition is a terrible mistake and the source of many of the world’s worst woes, but I don’t dismiss the mind that is prone to superstition the same way. Some years back some experiments were done to try and understand the difference between minds that are prone to superstition and minds that are more rational. It was found that people who were superstitious were able to pick a signal out of random noise more often than rational people, however they also made more mistakes in falsely identifying genuine information than non-superstitious people. The more rational people were more accurate, but missed some things patterns. So even though I reject as erroneous all superstition, I nevertheless see the kind of mind that is prone to superstition as valuable. We humans need all the help we can get.
Ugh! Way to go. I screw up my initial sentence. Please read it as:
“Annie, replace what I said about someone phoning or not phoning when you’d just been thinking about them, with feeling wary about a train crossing when a train did or didn’t appear.”
Sorry about that. 🙁
@Miriam (and Annie)
I really appreciate your thoughts on ‘Coincidence or Preordained?’ Taa daa!
No I am not thinking about fate or destiny or anything supernatural.
I agree that we are absorbing and processing information without even being aware of it, resulting in some amazing actions/decisions. However, (you knew there’d be a ‘however’) to the best of my analytical ability there have been a few occasions when I was very fortunate to have listened to my gut. I am debating about writing one incident in particular – the action I took changed my life – that sounds very melodramatic, but it did enable me to escape from my ex-husband. I may write about it at some stage – I have to be in the ‘right’ head space to publish the personal. Also I am not sure if this comment will post, I had written a very comprehensive response to Wally the god of battery power – then there was a system glitch and my work was gone, yes I shoulda/coulda copied before uploading, sigh. I have a very poor battery – I need to conserve it carefully.
One of the things I love about AIMN is the diversity – we are all different and all offer some fantastic POV’s – all while sharing a common knowledge that the freedoms we have often taken for granted are very much under threat from the current batch of pollies (aided all too well by big corpa). I confess to having a short tolerance fuse for some people – this does not include Dan at all – I am more interested at where someone is going, what is their true agenda and whether they want to chat rather than compete.
The tingles
You can call it survival instinct, or an infra-stimulation of the amygdala/hippocampus in response to a micro-perceptional fluctuation in the mub-molecular matrix.
Animals sometimes flee just before natural disasters.
I have learned (mostly through repeated hotplate-touching experimentation), not to trust people or situations that raise immediate threat hackles.
P.s, sometimes this theoretical ability malfunctions.
Miriam ….
I think perhaps we have been slightly at crossed purposes on occasion here …
ref : your second paragraph. ,,,,, ” when there is no train coming. It is sensible to feel wary of it. We should. Feeling that way doesn’t raise any red flags. It is normal. We will only attach any real emotional importance to the time we felt wary when a train did show up; that will freak us out. Do you see what I mean? ”
Well – yes and no. My story about the train crossing, DID raise the red flag – and sure I attach emotional importance to it NOW, ( after the fact ) … but at the time of it happening, the red flag obviously waved big time, to the degree that I did something that was very much ‘outside the normal’. …. I reacted then and there, and will never know exactly why I did what I did. … Prior to that event, my wariness at crossings, was much the same wariness with which I approach every day driving now. …. my wariness at crossings however, is elevated ( as I mentioned ). ..
Any experience that leaves one shaken or traumatised, will remain in the brain as a permanent red flag. e.g. a person who has been bitten by a horse ( and boy does THAT hurt ) – has a) learned valuable lessons, and b) will forever be circumspect in her approach to the face of a horse – noting automatically, the position of ears, the eye movements etc. ( have been around horses all my life, and have a very healthy respect for them, for their accuracy, and their potential for sour moments. The first thing I teach children around horses, is never to walk behind them – without doing so in a very wide circle. … Doesn’t mean I love horses any less – that’s for sure. … I adore them.
And there are many times we selectively ‘forget’ … the brain protects itself in just such a way.
Superstition ? …. I think rational people, in weaker or troubled times, can entertain superstition IF it is put in their way e.g. emails, “send it on or woe betide you”, type of thing. …. Have given in to them on very few occasions – maybe 3 ? … and now do not. … Ignore / delete. … Superstition I agree can be very damaging to the psyche. … I see it often in some of my friends and family.
Interesting subject. …
,,,,,
Hmmm… I seem to be missing some reply notifications in my email. Good thing I checked here today.
I agree Annie, it is an exceedingly interesting topic and actually relates tangentially to the conservative, right-wing state of mind. There have been a number of investigations recently into why conservatives hold the beliefs they do. While it is not actually superstition in itself, it can involve superstition-like beliefs and feature actual superstition. This is probably part of the reason why religion features so strongly among those of a conservative, right-wing mind-set… even if the radically pacifist, socialist Jew they say they follow actually preached the polar opposite to their beliefs. (It’s nice to see the current Pope giving right-wing conservatives indigestion at the moment with his blame of extreme capitalism for much of the world’s ills.)
I did manage to save a reply from yesterday:
@Miriam (and Annie)
I really appreciate your thoughts on ‘Coincidence or Preordained?’ Taa daa!
No I am not thinking about fate or destiny or anything supernatural.
I agree that we are absorbing and processing information without even being aware of it, resulting in some amazing actions/decisions. However, (you knew there’d be a ‘however’) to the best of my analytical ability there have been a few occasions when I was very fortunate to have listened to my gut. I am debating about writing one incident in particular – the action I took changed my life – that sounds very melodramatic, but it did enable me to escape from my ex-husband. I may write about it at some stage – I have to be in the ‘right’ head space to publish the personal. Also I am not sure if this comment will post, I had written a very comprehensive response to Wally the god of battery power – then there was a system glitch and my work was gone, yes I shoulda/coulda copied before uploading, sigh. I have a very poor battery – I need to conserve it carefully.
One of the things I love about AIMN is the diversity – we are all different and all offer some fantastic POV’s – all while sharing a common knowledge that the freedoms we have often taken for granted are very much under threat from the current batch of pollies (aided all too well by big corpa). I confess to having a short tolerance fuse for some people – this does not include Dan at all – I am more interested at where someone is going, what is their true agenda and whether they want to chat rather than compete.
——————————–
Miriam
I too, am left speechless at the link between the conservative mindset and denial of reality. Now, we all have been in denial about something in our lives. It is a very human way of coping. However, when the evidence is overwhelming time to have a rethink, but not this mob.
You’d think that conservatives would be at the for-front of protecting the environment, saving limited resources, or that libertarians would be tolerant of diversity. They need a name-change to reflect what they really stand for; authoritarianism and class warfare.
I often wonder how in the LNP or the Republican party, libertarians and conservatives manage to get along. However, what is worse is that these strange bed-fellows are popping up in what used to be the progressive side of politics – for example. Bill Shorten – not exactly left of centre is old Bill.
Sad and confused.
Don’t be confused dianaart,
The false left/right paradigm is becoming extinct and is being replaced by the authoritarian/freedom paradigm. People don’t like to accept that Hitler (national socialist), Mao and Stalin were all authoritarian lefties.
Cheers
Not that confused, Darrel
If someone is an authoritarian they are not progressive nor of the left.
“authoritarian lefties” – oxymoron much!
reply for diannaart,
The term ‘left’ began in the French parliament and actually refers to those who didn’t support the monarchy – the terms leftie and authoritarian are not mutually exclusive. Look at Obama who claims to be a progressive leftie but who has used more authoritarian executive actions than all the other U.S. presidents combined.
Cheers
Darrel
Obama ain’t perfect but compared to George Bush Jnr, he’s a boy scout.
Let’s just agree to disagree – my time is valuable and I am sure yours is as well.
https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/
Darrel, a tiny correction/addition: “left” and “right” come from the sides the members were seated on in the French Legislative Assembly back in 1789 — the left-hand side supported the merchants, capitalism and free markets, and the right-hand side supported the royalty and aristocracy. Sadly, nobody supported the peasants back then. 🙁
Diannaart …. ( and Miriam )
What you dianna describe ( and one can only guess the measures you might have taken, for survival ) … raises the other thing I couldn’t think of yesterday. ( and then all hell broke loose on AIM and other sites controlled by the then server ) !! … So some of us missed out – although I was surprised to see one of my posts actually made it through the server maelstrom !! LOL,
Anyway, that is the ‘fight or flight’ response. … It is a genuine ‘intuition’ in my opinion, although for you it was obviously more. But “fight or flight” is recognised in psychology and science – and is explained in a variety of ways, too numerous to mention. … It is triggered by ‘stress’ – of so many kinds. … It happens almost automatically – beyond oneself, for want of a better description.
….
Miriam …
Having now been prompted to think about it – it most certainly is the mindset ( as Dianna also said ) of the conservative right wing to display superstition. … in that the word means, myth, belief, notion or legend. …. They tend to stick like glue to outmoded ideas, based on what grand-daddy said ( 80% in my family !! ) 60 years ago, and how he should still be obeyed, because the right wing were always correct. It seems to be inherited ? … except for the occasional black sheep in the family 🙂
Ref : ” It’s nice to see the current Pope giving right-wing conservatives indigestion at the moment with his blame of extreme capitalism for much of the world’s ills.”
It is indeed good to see a Pope who genuinely wants best for the world, and not just his little corner of it. … He has probably set a few cats among the pigeons with all that, including his thoughts on renewable energy.
NOW all he has to do is sell off some of the extraordinary artifacts and priceless treasures the Vatican holds, to really set the place on fire, and give aid to those who need it – wherever.
That sure would be a million cats let loose – I wonder if it will ever happen. ??
@ corvus boreus …
Trust you cb, to introduce a challenging piece here.
Ref : the hackles comment – – – Figure it depends on what actually raises the hackles … I still take note, react, or not.
Your note ” Animals sometimes flee just before natural disasters.”
They most often do in fact. …. Have watched my own chickens who just ‘know’ when there is a raptor in the sky above. … First, all the birds disappear instantly, and in tandem, as if with the click of fingers – and then my girls disappear with heads continually raised to the skies, into their coops. … and then they hide. … Takes me a while to even see the eagle, and sometimes I don’t. … But by hell, my dog always does. … How ? I wouldn’t know. But she knows. … Constantly looks skywards, sniffing the air. …. while klutzy hooman me, is left pondering.
Now – strictly scientifically speaking, humans are indeed classified as animals. … Sure we are blessed ( or cursed at times ) with thinking and logic capabilities, decision making etc., but if we are indeed animals, then we have an inherent ability to also detect danger, before it happens.
However, we hold no candles to the true animal world in that regard. … We are as slow as wet weeks by comparison. …. Not a fully developed ability in our good selves ! … But the seeds of knowledge are there, and occasionally sprout – often when most needed ?