This man is dangerous
This morning, George Christensen posted the following on his Facebook page:
I’m setting up a new website – www.WarOnRadicalIslam.com – and am looking for writers and researchers to help in this endeavour. The website will seek to expose radical Islamic practices, its adherents and its appeasers within our midst. The site will also root out political correctness and its purveyors who seek to stymie free speech on this, the most important subject for the future of our Western civilisation.
It will take an Australian point-of-view but articles and item…s featured on the site won’t be limited to events and happenings within Australia. The site will not only be critical of radical Islam but will offer solutions and, in doing so, will advocate for an internal reform of Islam and promote moderate Muslims who are seeking to change their faith for the better. But where practices of so-called moderate Muslims in this country or elsewhere are found to be less than moderate or appeasing the extremists, this website will call it out.
The pay rate for writers and researchers is a whopping total of nothing but you’ll be helping fight for a cause which could determine the future of Western civilisation, freedom, liberty and humankind. It’s no small task.
If you’re interested in being part of this project, please e-mail me at george.christensen.mp@aph.gov.au with your expression of interest and, preferably, an example of your work. Please ensure the subject line in all e-mails pertaining to this project read “War on radical Islam.”
Already there are hundreds of likes, shares, comments, and offers of help along these lines:
“I’m interested in helping you with your endeavors. While I am an American living in Australia by choice, I have chosen Australia as my home and I’m just waiting for my citizenship to be granted. I’d also like to know if posts made will be anonymous because as we all know radical Muslims most assuredly do try to harm bloggers and authors of papers denouncing Islam. Facebook is bad enough, but at least on here no one knows where I live.”
or this
“I accept the pay rate George & I’ll do any overtime pro bono.
Been studying about Islam for years & not an awful lot I don’t know about it. What I don’t know, I know where to find & whom to ask.
Seems like there’s only you & Senator Bernardi who’s got the cajones to speak about Islam & the Marxist agenda of attacking families.“
If enough people email Malcolm expressing concern, we might be able to stop the hurt and harm this man seems intent on causing.
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Return to home pageWhat can I say ?? QandA kept the subject of terror on our screens for an hour last night. What a waste of time when so many other issues need airing.
What a nutter…… Unfortunately I think he actually represents what most of the morons who voted for him actually believe. eg what Rupert tells them too….. Keep ’em frightened….
He really scares me.
“where practices of so-called moderate Muslims in this country or elsewhere are found to be less than moderate or appeasing the extremists, this website will call it out.”
So now George is judge and jury, bypassing intelligence agencies, to tell it like it is. This man does more singlehandedly to destroy social cohesion than any war overseas.
Sadly, the internet makes it possible for nutters to indulge in vigilante-like behaviour.
Evidently it’s impossible to be a jabbering bigot AND have a good grasp of English grammar…
Ah the deep north. They used to say they had to send three policemen on a call. One who could read, one who could write, and one to keep the intellectuals in check. Gotta luv em.
The site is hosted on a free hosting platform. You can complain to the platform’s owners here http://www.wix.com/upgrade/abuse
Get the site shut doen before it even gets going.
He is a pathetic piece of scum ( he is also morbidly obese and very unattractive). Not that it matters. Filthy pig.
Does he want to expose radical Christianity too?
QandA turned my stomach last night. It was definitely too forced for my liking and seemed to have an agenda outside of current events. I switched off willing and without regret.
But this unfortunate soul Christensen would be better off asking for help on dieting tips.
Why are we electing the fools instead of the kings these days?
Signed
Flabbergasted!
mars08,
Funny, but the grammar is far better than that of a popular author at this site. I mean, seriously, is that the best you have, an empty slur?
Radical Islam is a problem; it’s a global problem. Fools like George are certainly not the ones to be the progenitors of a meaningful discussion of this issue, but the issue absolutely needs discussion – if only in the context of the current discourse about the role of religious thought in secular government. Dismissing the need for such a discourse on the basis of partisan politics, or because of the perception that the momentum is being driven by dipshits, is, for me, folly.
The discourse must re wrested from such dimwits, not cast aside as meaningless, because it damn well isn’t.
Can we drop George and his mates in Afghanistan, so they can fight the extremists??
ByB, I really dislike your habit of attacking the authors on this site.
Surely this is George abusing his position? If Alan Jones can be declared to have incited riots in Cronulla then George, by virtue of his position, has committed many far greater crimes? Is George the mystery MP about to lose his career? He should be!
You can hear the strains of Duelling Banjos while you read this can’t you???
BB,
It seems to me that Muslims would be better placed to “advocate for an internal reform of Islam” than George Christensen and his followers.
Silma Ihram, former head of the Muslim Women’s Association, has spoken about the move and need for change but has cautioned that it cannot happen overnight and it certainly won’t happen because of anything George might suggest..
I remember my m-in-law saying the same thing to me about the Catholic Church when a conference she was at was told by a papal legate that they couldn’t discuss the role of women in the church. When I asked why she would tolerate that she said you cannot change things from outside. We must keep working for the change we want.
Dear Anonymous Admin,
Firstly, I didn’t attack anyone. I put a commentator’s slur in context. If you can’t tell the difference then I cannot help you.
And btw, I really dislike how you treat posters here like children.
So, moving on to the actual issue …..
He is indeed an incredibly disturbing individual. One thing I find disturbing about him and those like him is the way they like to wrap themselves in the Australian flag. I think they actually convince themselves that clothing their racism and bigotry in patriotism somehow legitimises their cause.
One man’s empty slur is another’s whimsical observation. Oh… ehhh… BTW… ummm… Bite me!
Just putting things in context for y’all….
kerri,
This is an interesting question. He may not be abusing his position, as such, but he’s surely guilty of embarrassing the Government. The next question is why hasn’t Turnbull reigned this guy in? He seems to have freedom unbefitting his station. It’s really curious. How much power does the LNP actually have in Coalition ranks? I suspect a significant amount.
Such eloquence from such a knob. Sometimes ya gotta say it like you see it.
Sadly,I was born and bred,in Mackay,and used to pine for at least short return visit.As I said.sadly,since the missrepresentive of humanity,I no longer want to go any where near.For the first time I am seriously thinking that [ perhaps ? ? ] there is [ possibly ] a valid reason for data retention.I would really like A F P + border farce,to do some real work and keep a serious look at these yobbo’s records,a lot more dangerous than most muslims,several of whom I personally know as good hard working and honest Australians and I might add,more concerned about radicals of all faiths,particularly the likes of the member?? you wrote about [I cannot bring myself to even type it’s name ].I really shake my head when these F:”:’wits scream about ”Free Speech ”,when really they mean that they can say what they like about anything that they like ,but any person dissagrees with them should be shutdown by any or all means possible.
Kaye lee,
Points well made, but the problem we’re facing in contemporary geo-politics is the growth and new emergence of radical Islam in a relatively short period of time. That dynamic is real. Long standing Muslim demographics of otherwise non-Muslim nations are being drawn to a more fundamentalist view of Islamic faith and theology. That is bad. Very bad. It’s made worse, of course, by the “West””s hopeless post-WW11 geo-political stratagems, and those desperate failures must be part of any dialogue regarding the issue, but my very strong feeling is that we are not living in a period where we we can rely on internal dynamics to fix the problems. The momentum is too strong in the other direction.
Part of the problem is that only the morons like George and Co. are entering into a serious dialogue; the rest are pretty much dismissing the need for it for fear of offending someone. That means we are passively allowing that other mob to take control of the discussion. If we allow that dynamic to continue for much longer it’ll be lost to us entirely.
We clearly don’t have 100 years to wait while Islam sorts itself out from within. For me, because the problem remains fairly much negligible for us here in Australia, we’re the perfect conduit for a reasonable discourse to unfold. But we have to control it and not just dismiss it as something only bigots want to talk about.
you people are calling him a bigot and a racist, you do understand that Islam is a religion and a ideology just like Christianity and Buddhism. this guy wants to start a long over due conversation about extremist and their political correct protectors.its amazing how the social justice warriors lie too force a company to take of a entertainment product off target shelves for some preconceived notion that said entertainment incites violence against women and in the same breath say that the french cartoonist had it coming because the “incited hate”. now days expressing you opinion, may it be horrible or disobedient is a death sentence!
“But this unfortunate soul Christensen would be better off asking for help on dieting tips.” – There is a scientific method of losing weight, but I would not give any tips to fat boy as I want him to stay fat and die.
One wonders if this is dog whistling as the Government appears to be ramping up attacks on a range of issues. Seems they may be gearing up, and trying to scare the population in readiness for an early election. It also helps to keep people’s minds off the fact that the govt. is floundering around economically etc.
Stephen,
George may be wanting to initiate a long overdue conversation, but one look at his new website indicates that he doesn’t wish to approach that conversation in anything resembling a sober, intellectual fashion. That means he’s a problem.
The Muslim community here is our greatest asset in this war on extremism. They are the ones who can see when people are preaching hate or kids are acting strange. They have been instrumental in helping us identify people who may have been considering making trouble. The head of ASIO, Duncan Lewis, has praised them and specifically asked MPs to be temperate in their public discourse. This sparked cries of outrage from George and others about freedom of speech. Interestingly enough, when I tried to discuss these issues and others on George’s facebook page he blocked me. He lives in an echo chamber of hatred – hatred of Muslims, homosexuals, feminists, environmentalists…he even got angry that the newer versions of the bible no longer called Jews the Christ killers when editing a local paper. I don’t believe George can add anything constructive to this discussion.
People seem to forget:
1: Every living thing on this planet has the same DNA as they do.
2: We all breathe the same air
3: From space there are no borders
4: Ideas are only in the human head, but when they are wrong they extend outwards and destroy us all.
5: All religions are bullshit, forget the lot of them and find a new path.
Backyard Bob
‘Radical Islam’ is not a problem; it’s an unsubstantiated proposition.
Radicalism has a habit of co-opting religious faith in pursuit of it’s particular goals.
Christensen is a radical who has co-opted Christianity to pursue personal and political goals and vendettas – but he is not a radical Christian.
When a person turns to radicalism they cannot make legitimate claim to support from any of the worlds major religions.
Who are you to judge Christensen as a ‘fool’ – how do you know you are not a ‘fool’?
One man’s empty slur is another’s whimsical observation. Oh… ehhh… BTW… ummm… Bite me!
Phil,
Very good points. The people who are fighting for ISIS did not buy all those trucks and guns and missiles. They are pawns in a game that has nothing to do with religion.
Though I must admit, I too think Christensen is a fool, a dangerous one at that, but perhaps it is not a word I should throw around.
shouldnt post the hyperlink from facebook
http://georgechristensen.wix.com/waronradicalislam
This guy is more dangerous than radical Islam. I am also of the opinion that his post could be interpreted as inciting violence. This could be an interesting test of Turnbull’s leadership.
“The website will seek to expose radical Islamic practices, its adherents and its appeasers within our midst.”
Does anyone else find that somewhat reminiscent of the “dob in a Jew” campaign in Nazi Germany?
If we cannot call George Christensen a fool we will have to be honest and refer to him for what he is, A Dickhead.
In America people have a greater chance of being killed by a relative through an accident with firearms; yet, as in Australia, the focus is on Muslims. Australians have a greater chance of being killed through domestic violence. However, George and people like him do create an environment which is fertile for young people to be radicalised. Psychiatrists and Allied Health professionals have discussed for many years the damage caused on people through being incarcerated in Detention Centres.
We provide the environment which can lead to radicalism and then are surprised when it happens; i.e., the cavalier manner in which asylum seekers are treated.
Go back further Keith to the treaty of Sevres in 1920 which abolished the Ottoman Empire and obliged Turkey to renounce all rights over Arab Asia and North Africa leading to the creation of, amongst others, the British Mandate of Palestine and the French Mandate of Syria. Also, France, Great Britain and Italy signed a secret “Tripartite Agreement” which confirmed Britain’s oil and commercial concessions, and turned the former German enterprises in the Ottoman Empire over to a Tripartite corporation.
What’s that phrase about you reap what you sow?
We should be lifting people out of poverty, building schools and hospitals rather than bombing them, working together regardless of our differences towards peaceful co-existence.
Does anyone seriously believe a society can grow from bombs – ours or theirs?
George has helpfully shared the Guardian article about his website which reveals that, at the last census, Mackay, the major population centre in Christensen’s north Queensland electorate, has a Muslim population of 18.
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/23/george-christensen-seeks-contributors-to-new-war-on-radical-islam-website
sometimes in conversation/commentary just one word rings alarm bells – in Christensen’s case that word is ‘appeaser’ – a truly loaded term as others point out here and used with intentional malevolence such is the nature of this obnoxious conservative.
Why is he being paid by us and to do what ?.
George has attracted a lot of attention today. From the Monthly…
Education Minister Simon Birmingham on the Safe Schools criticism from Christensen and Bernardi:
“These types of debates … are very unhelpful because the debate that seems to be occurring in the public space is one of whether or not we should be teaching inclusiveness and tolerance in our schools. Well, that’s a pretty foolish debate to be having.”
Well said, minister.
Today Malcolm Turnbull hung Birmingham and his pretty principles out to dry. At the prime minister’s invitation, the minister will report back to the Liberal party room on the results of an independent review of the Safe Schools program that will now occur. (For “invitation”, read “order”.)
https://www.themonthly.com.au/today/sean-kelly/2016/23/2016/1456203396/show-some-backbone-pm
It appears George holds more sway with the PM than his education minister….or is it the ubiquitous flick pass to keep expensive consultants occupied and crazy politicians quiet?
like the ‘ yanks ‘ in wwii. overweight, overpaid and over here
hood,
My father fought in WWII and he delighted in playing cards against American soldiers – he was very good and rarely lost and they had a lot more cash than the Aussies.
I agree entirely with Keith and Kaye Lee. Are we in Australia, and in other western countries, just stupid, completely lacking in a knowledge and understanding of history, especially of the last hundred years, or do we suffer from such hubris that we believe ourselves immune from action and reaction? That we are so special that it is our right to organise any other country in any way we choose for our benefit, by colonisation, military invasion, sanctions ? And then we are outraged when those we attack fight back. What do we expect?
As for Christensen and his ilk who believe they have the knowledge, let alone the right to be judge and jury on which Muslims are acceptable and which are not – such people are frightening. Presumably they believe that the west was entitled to eject the Palestinians from what is now Israel, to destroy so much of Iraq, and now to assist in the destruction of Syria. I do not understand why we are incapable of minding our own business, and letting others mind theirs. We are not omniscient.
I just want to add that at the 2011 census there were 18 people of Islamic faith living in here in Mackay.
George is a knobjockey.
Phil,
I find the use of the word “Appeasers” extremely disturbing.
Throughout history, this word has had one and only one meaning: those who disagree with my position.
It’s pejorative; meant to denigrate, while being vague enough to cover almost anybody the user doesn’t care for.
McCarthy used it widely in the US in the 60s.
It was utterly inappropriate then and so it is now.
If Christensen cares so much for his country, he might consider putting on a uniform.
He won’t because, although I’ve never met him, of this I am certain – he is a physical and moral coward.
As such, he deserves our contempt.
George’s website intro seems to have undergone a touch of editing.
Curious that he’s using his Government email address. That’s gotta be dodgy.
Backyard Bob, I think you miss completely the ‘political’ point’. (Just jokin … by the way.)
MN,
I try to avoid political points as much as possible. I find them ever so prickly.
The bloke, ( http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2016/02/23/the-public-is-being-looted-by-privatization-and-deregulation-paul-craig-roberts/) who at one time read the daily intelligence reports for the President of the USofA – would have a few things to say on the matter. Actually you may as well read his latest report on Privatisation – as that is a special sort of radical agenda in itself – but I digress….
You may have read Seymour Hersh’s revelations on events in Syria and how the US has armed trained and coordinated radical elements (terrorists and death squads) to illegally take down a sovereign government and his latest where he says he has no idea why Obama has been so reckless is arming jihadists. Well I’ve got news for you Sy Hersh. According to PC Roberts (above) Israel only really controls US foreign policy when it comes to events in the Middle East. And what that clearly means is that US policy on Syria is very much in the interests of Israel – as I have said here before.
Not only does Israel occupy Syrian land (Golan Heights) but it also uses bases there to assist al Qaeda operations in Syria and provide medical facilities for al Qaeda fighters.
Syria is part of the axis of resistance to Israel occupation of Palestine and it is for this reason Israel has been keen to topple the government led by al Assad in Syria – and why Obama has followed suit. He was a favorite for certain Jewish interests to become President of the United States. Even his first Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel a dual citizen…you can google him too and check out his bio, family history and in particular his terrorist Israeli father.
Anyway the point of all this is to point out who are the real terrorists in our midst ie those who enable and promote terrorist organisations and mercenaries to carry on their business.
this man is dangerous! … ?
http://scoopfeed.net/2015/02/17/obamas-drone-war-death-count-surpasses-spanish-inquisition/
Apart from what has already been said, the problem for us in North Queensland is that obviously a majority of our population seems to emulate the deep south in the USA. We are not all tories up here, we elected three Labor State members in Townsville at the last State election but our federal representative has been a tory since the Howard govt. We live in a tropical paradise with a majority of rednecks and hillbilly’s. We have bugger all infrastructure up here and after the Hawke govt built the Burdekin Falls Dam in their 1983-7 term the tories are just now ‘thinking’ about rising the dam wall and building Stateges 2 and 3. It is a frustrating place to live ruled by the worst of slack politicians.
I’m grateful to the likes of Mr Christensen.
Without him we would have no idea who to despise, hate and fear.
Now that the Communists have faded and the “swamping” Asian menace has been sidelined in the media and society has (generally) accepted gays we would probably be turning against each other more fiercely.
The Chinese, the Irish, the Italians, the post WW2 European immigrants and the Vietnamese have all had their turn – although Aboriginals have always been a convenient target and the Chinese yellow peril is in resurgence in economic terms.
At least the Muslim target also helps tick the refugee box (despite many of them being Christian) and the never-ending Halal controversy is just a convenient bonus.
Gathering together in rival tribal groups is what we do best, whether in local sporting teams, political parties or competing religious sects.
What a sad, sick inwardly looking society we must seem to the rest of the world who don’t share Christensen’s enlightened views.
It amazes me why those who don’t like this or any other site, keep on reading and contributing to it.
Personally if I find a site not to my liking, I give it a miss.
Truth is, most of them would block me if I uttered a comment holding them to account. Most times don’t bother.
This little piggy has grown far too fat from feeding at the publicly funded trough, perhaps its time to send him to the abattoirs, rest assured the end product will not be Halal.
More important things we need to deal with than be distracted by this bullshit fear mongering. Piss off George!!
This enough to get me on the list of Muslim lovers!!
I’m wondering how many of the self-righteous posters on this page have ever actually read the qur’an, hadiths and surah?
It might be both beneficial and highly informative to take the time to do your own research, before casting judgement on anyone, good or bad. Something to do with equity and a lack of hypocrisy perhaps?
Florence, there are those of us who agree with many things on both left wing and right wing sites.
We are what is commonly known as ‘centrists’ I believe?
Surely free speech allows us to challenge those sections of any site we find disagreeable?
Personally, I disagree strongly with people like Donald Trump etc, as well as those less than wonderful left wing fascists who delight in perpetuating violence against anyone they disagree with these days. You know the ones, the unofficial PC police?
Peter, none of us here are a prominent politician promoting hate. We’re just a bunch of humble lefties promoting equality.
I have read a translation of the Quran. To me, it is primitivist and self-contradictory, and in some passages had an attitude regarding murderous atrocity almost as salacious as that often expressed in the ‘Old Testament’.
I have also read statements by G Christensen on various subjects, and he regularly spouts provable falsehoods and defamatory sledges that, were they to be directed at specific individuals, would likely be legally actionable (eg totally unfounded allegations of ‘terrorism’ regarding people legally opposing planning decisions).
One does not need to be (in any way) an apologist for Islam (and the atrocities too often committed in it’s name) to view George C as a dumb and dodgy bigot who is a grubby stain upon the conduct of civil governance.
Peter,
I can find quotes from the Qur’an that would curl your hair and match them with ones from the bible advocating even worse violence. I can find verses preaching tolerance in the Qur’an and others that preach hatred just as I can in the Bible.
Many of the things that concern Australian non-Muslims are not relevant here. They are cultural differences or problems from other societies. We are well-placed to show how Muslims and non-Muslims can co-exist peacefully if the minority extremists from both sides would stop shouting so loud.
Kaye Lee, I do not doubt your ability to find violent quotes from the Bible, but there is a key difference between it and the qur’an.
The Old Testament is primarily a historical account, whose verses of violence are not binding for modern generations, whereas the whole of the qur’an is absolutely binding for all muslims until the so-called ‘last day’ which, according to muhammed, will not come untill ‘all Jews are killed’.
There is an ocean of difference between the two texts.
“the whole of the qur’an is absolutely binding for all muslims ”
Absolute rubbish. Muslims are just like us. Some are very religious. Some are not. My electrician is a Muslim and we often enjoy a drink together when he finishes work here. I would also respect his choice not to.
There are Christian groups in Australia who believe and abide by the Old Testament. I disagree with their beliefs too but provided they do not thrust them on or harm others they are entitled to believe as they please. The Christian Israelites for example believe the last day is coming and only 140,000 people descended from one tribe will be saved (or some such thing).
“Seems like there’s only you & Senator Bernardi who’s got the cajones to speak about Islam & the Marxist agenda of attacking families.“
I am surprised no one has attempted to find out what this means or is supposed to mean. Islam and Marxism together? This person is seriously deluded and/or misinformed.
George’s latest thread:
“Where Amercia (sic) goes, Australia follows. I firmly believe the time is right for the National Party to become THE Australian political party that stands for economic populism and “Australia first” nationalism.”
He then links to a story about Donald Trump who he obviously hopes to emulate
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-23/nationalism-and-populism-propel-trump
Kaye Lee, ““the whole of the qur’an is absolutely binding for all muslims ”
Absolute rubbish. Muslims are just like us. Some are very religious. Some are not. My electrician is a Muslim and we often enjoy a drink together when he finishes work here. I would also respect his choice not to.”
I agree with the statement you have made, but you have misunderstood…again.
When I said the qur’an is absolutely binding for all muslims, I did not lie.
It is absolutely binding for all muslims.
Read it and you will see that I speak the truth.
What you have said is an entirely different matter, because you are talking about individual choice in response to the qur’anic texts.
Totally different concept.
My statement stands.
totaram,
Marxist is George’s favourite word to use about the Safe Schools program.
“It can’t be any clearer than this: The so-called anti-bullying school program entitled Safe Schools is, in reality, a Marxist attempt to meddle with young minds akin to the Soviet Union’s sexual liberation policies which the Safe Schools program’s author states “removed the fixed age of consent.”
Sadly, so much vile sexual material is being distributed, via this program, to children as young as four years old. Why are we sexualising children like this? Is their some Marxist plan afoot to desensitise kids to sexual kinks and lower the age of consent? Why is it being done in our schools? What the hell does this all have to do with bullying? And why oh why is all this being done with federal government funding?”
Peter,
I have no idea what you mean by absolutely binding for all Muslims. Australians are free to choose. It IS about individual choice. I think you should stop worrying about quotes from thousands of years ago. They are distressing you unnecessarily. Can you tell me how your life has been impacted negatively by Muslims in this country?
Kaye Lee, my point is proven in your own words.
You are incapable of understanding the difference between the tenets of islam, and the lives of muslims.
Sad.
My life is affected negatively every time I see a factual report from anywhere in the world where the tenets of islam are embraced by its followers in such fashion that non-muslims are victimised, enslaved, raped or murdered.
Sadly, the leftist media never publish these items because it would make their tolerance at all costs agendas seem ridiculous, which they are of course.
I know you will question this, but all I can suggest is that you broaden your mind and your global perspective by looking at other news sources.
Could you give me any examples of non-muslims being victimised, enslaved, raped or murdered by Muslims here? I can think of a few. Sadly I can give you thousands of examples of Australian women being victimised, enslaved, raped and murdered by their partners.
Peter do you understand that there is an enormous difference between Australian society and that of third world countries? Things that happen there are largely due to poverty and a lack of education combined with inequality and corruption. You cannot make policy in this country based on the experiences of another entirely different society.
I can also guarantee you, I am across more news sources than you could possibly imagine. I am rather thingy about the credibility of sources however.
Okay… it’s fairly clear where this this is heading… So let me just get this out there and save time…
Piss off Peter, you are an ignorant, pompous dickhead. Stop wasting my bandwidth with your bullshit.
Next!
Kaye Lee, the utter ignorance of mars08’s drivel aside, I agree thousands of Australian women are victimised in their own homes, but that is not related to the topic at hand, which is islam and its tenets. NOT muslims per se.
Yes, I understand the difference between Australia and third world countries, commonly known by the left as ‘the global south’.
Unlike mars08, I actually read many educational and informative news pieces, including alternative histories that are not written by the victors.
I am not talking about the injustices that occur as a result of poverty and corruption.
I am talking strictly about the tenets of islam.
Twisting it into these other topics lacks credibility, sorry.
mars08, please fall down and get up yourself…oops, sorry, you’re already there!
How is your clown badge going?
Could I add that the tenets of Islam would be about as relevant to my electrician as the Apostle’s Creed is to me. As I have said, in Australia we are free to choose what we believe and how or if we worship provided we do not impinge on the rights of others as those who would ban mosques and halal food are trying to do.
I agree Kaye Lee, however, again, it’s not about your electrician, it’s about how those tenets are adopted by those who choose to live exactly in accordance with the qur’an, and there are many who do so.
You cannot generalise on the basis of one electrician.
I am not generalising on the basis of any particular muslim or muslims, but declaring the truth of the tenets of islam as they stand within it’s texts.
This is a strange fixation that I do not understand Peter. You seem to think people are irrelevant but words written eons ago and translated by different people to suit their own purpose are important. You completely avoid the question about how your life HERE has been negatively affected by AUSTRALIAN Muslims. The truth of the matter is it hasn’t. You want to read horror stories from other places and sit there and be scared then I truly pity you. I could tell you about the very religious Muslim family whose son was in my son’s cricket team and to whom I often gave a lift because Dad was praying. But you don’t care about reality. You prefer baseless fear.
Allah says : “Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loves those who are just”.
@Kaye Lee… I suspect Peter is saying that those people who choose to do bad deeds and commit crimes, can possibly turn to the nastier Hadiths for justification.
Peter is a disingenuous tool.
Islamic law states that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries must abide by the laws of that country. It says that Muslims should always maintain their Islamic modesty and moral integrity and avoid undignified behaviour but they must also have patience.
Kaye Lee, this was your question: “Can you tell me how your life has been impacted negatively by Muslims in this country?”
You did not qualify the original question with the words ‘here’ and ‘Australian’.
Therefore my explanation stands.
I have not said people are irrelevant, I am simply illustrating that we need to go to the core of where millions of muslims globally get their motivation to cause harm to others, and that is, directly from the qur’an, hadiths and surah.
Kaye, there is absolutely nothing baseless about my understanding of islam.
You are choosing to look at it through rose coloured glasses, which is a pity.
The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.
Unlike nearly all of the Old Testament verses of violence, the verses of violence in the Quran are mostly open-ended, meaning that they are not restrained by the historical context of the surrounding text (although many Muslims choose to think of them that way). They are part of the eternal, unchanging word of Allah, and just as relevant or subject to interpretation as anything else in the Quran.
The context of violent passages is more ambiguous than might be expected of a perfect book from a loving God. Most contemporary Muslims exercise a personal choice to interpret their holy book’s call to arms according to their own moral preconceptions about justifiable violence. Their apologists cater to these preferences with tenuous arguments that gloss over historical fact and generally do not stand up to scrutiny. Still, it is important to note that the problem is not bad people, but bad ideology.
Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed. Muhammad’s own martial legacy, along with the remarkable stress on violence found in the Quran, have produced a trail of blood and tears across world history.
Kaye Lee,
Quran (4:95) – “Not equal are those of the believers who sit (at home), except those who are disabled (by injury or are blind or lame, etc.), and those who strive hard and fight in the Cause of Allah with their wealth and their lives. Allah has preferred in grades those who strive hard and fight with their wealth and their lives above those who sit (at home).Unto each, Allah has promised good (Paradise), but Allah has preferred those who strive hard and fight, above those who sit (at home) by a huge reward “
Peter – you dont need an apostrophe in the word “its” in your 2nd to last comment.
I agree with Kaye Lee.
Having done busines over many years in Muslim countries my sense is that most Muslim families seek lives very like ours; lives that are safe, healthy, fulfilling; where they have opportunities and their children have a chance at a decent education.
The spectrum of Muslim societies exactly reflects the spectrum of Christian societies.
At one end we have those who confuse metaphor and myth with reality, in which case their religion drives then to often absurd and occasionally extreme behaviors.
At the other end are the tens of millions of nominally Muslim folk who don’t practice their faith at all, just like many nominal Christians.
The rest are spread out along the spectrum between those two poles.
There are times when I do fear extremists, which includes ISIL, Christensen, Australian Liberty Alliance and Cory Bernard, but only when I think about them, which, fortunately isn’t that often.
mars08, your disingenuousness as a troll with zero credibility is showing.
Thank you Jaquix, none of us is perfect, as I’m sure mars08 will be drooling to hear.
I await further trolling from he/she/it with utter and complete disdain.
Seeing we seem to be getting a bit off topic here, could I throw into the mix this 1991 article in the Age newspaper about Malcolm Turnbull. : http://www.theage.com.au/good-weekend/gw-classics/raging-turnbull-20140916-10c7ye.html hope the link works)
Very good sentiments Anthony, and undoubtedly borne out by excellent personal experience, which I do not doubt.
Again, I refer both you and Kaye not to various muslim people, but to the tenets of islam.
This is getting very tiresome, sorry.
Is it just a matter of wilfully ignoring what the islamic texts say?
Please show me where anywhere even remotely close to the number of islamic atrocities globally, has been perpetrated in equal portion by extremist Christians in the past 20 years?
Even half?
For crying out loud people, open your eyes and ears!
BTW… I adore the idea that we have dozens (if not hundreds) of non-Muslim scholars of the Quran in this country… who presumably can interpret the text, understand the context and fathom the contradictions.
How fortunate to have such an expert pay us a visit at this time… Out of the blue…
“Can you tell me how your life has been impacted negatively by Muslims in this country?”
You did not qualify the original question with the words ‘here’ and ‘Australian’.
Give me a break. I said YOUR life and in THIS country. Total avoidance because you have no answer except to start quoting religious texts. Do you live in fear that you will be beheaded?
I agree there are terrible things happening in other parts of the world. The only way that should affect our decision making is in how much humanitarian aid we can afford to give them, if we can provide medical assistance or help build infrastructure or skills training.
If we have social problems in this country we need to address them by first listening to people, not by alienating them. If you can identify a social problem in this country, perhaps we could be constructive in discussing how to address it.
“in the past 20 years”
I thought you were asking us to look at history, which has seen every religion kill people that didn’t agree with them. It has never worked. I abhor what ISIL is doing but I think the reasons behind it have very little to do with religion and a lot more to do with politics. That is why they enlist naïve kids as cannon fodder.
In my book, the future of civilization will be decided by how bad climate change is allowed to become , not by extremists, of whatever ideology or religion . These latter will be the labels that are used when societies become desperate enough to destroy their own bases and much non human life as well .
mars08, please place both your hands above the table at ALL times!
Kaye Lee, how about you give me a break?
I have the only credible answers, because you keep avoiding the obvious!
Just because we have not YET had a beheading in this country, does NOT mean we will never have any.
There are muslims in Australia who would willingly behead any infidel if given half the chance.
This is borne out by the number of people already incarcerated for plotting terrorist acts, and by those who have managed to travel to the middle east to join IS.
It affects my life because I choose to have compassion for others no matter where they are in the world, and to hate injustice and those who perpetrate it.
The vast majority of perpetrators are performing their acts in the name of islam, and because of its tenets!
That is borne out by facts!
To suggest slamic extremism can be solved by doling out foreign aid is simplistic and doomed for failure.
mars08 is a respected and long time contributor here. It is rather annoying that you keep avoiding answering the question about social problems here or how your life in Australia has been affected by Muslims living here. Is your only fear based on religious texts rather than anything that has happened?
“Just because we have not YET had a beheading in this country, does NOT mean we will never have any.”
Oh for pity’s sake. I could probably guarantee that at some time in the future a mentally ill person will do something horrific. Once again, could we please deal with reality since you ” have the only credible answers.” Answers to what firstly? What problem are you trying to solve and what is your answer?
Kaye Lee, mars08 abuses anyone he does not agree with, he denigrates rather than discusses. He has ZERO credibility.
How have I avoided answering how my life is affected???
“It affects my life because I choose to have compassion for others no matter where they are in the world, and to hate injustice and those who perpetrate it.”
As for your “Oh for pity’s sake”, please get down from your high horse and look at recent historical facts IN AUSTRALIA!
Look at the records of those who have been charged with plotting a terrorist act on Australian soil. At least two that I can remember were planning to behead a random member of the public.
Please tell me how that is not relevant?
How were those people caught Peter? According to our intelligence agencies it was through the vigilance of the Muslim community who alerted the authorities to possible danger. They also are a miniscule number of people compared to the far greater problem of domestic violence in this country.
I am not on any high horse but I do prefer dealing with fact than alarmist fiction. Does your compassion extend to the Muslims who are the main victims of ISIL? Does your compassion allow that we have contributed to the problem by dividing up the world for ourselves, condemning other nations to a far slower development than we have enjoyed?
Given the sinister exhortations of the Quran, the huge number of appeasers, the refusal of Muslims to assimilate and their deep, unwavering hatred of all infidels… it’s quite amazing that we don’t have religious massacres every day!
We’ve been lucky, right?
Kaye Lee, I applaud anyone who assists in the capture of those who would harm others, regardless of race, creed or ideology.
It does NOT change the fact of what these people were intending to perpetrate against a random member of the public, on Australian soil.
You seem to keep on trying to divert attention from the facts, why?
You say miniscule, yet I have seen estimates as high as 10%.
Even if it’s only 5% who embrace extremist ideology, there are 2 million muslims in Australia, 2% of that is 200,000 people who hold to a literal and extremist jihadi understanding of islam.
That’s a heck of a lot of people.
Even if it’s only half that number, it’s still a lot, by any understanding.
Nothing I have said is alarmist. it is all based on a clear understanding of islam’s texts over years of personal research as I have witnessed the global rise of militant extremist islam.
Do I have compassion for muslims who also lose their lives?
Absolutely!
I would much rather see peace in our world, but I cannot deny it just because I want to look for other reasons due to the truth making me feel uncomfortable.
I saw it reported today that in the middle east, a muslim boy 15 years old was beheaded by IS for daring to listen to a western pop song!
I hate that with an absolute passion!
That’s the sort of thing that affects my life intensely, even though I live in Oz!
These people are barbarians, yet western powers tinker around the edges at combating them, because they want to keep supplying arms for these enduring conflicts.
It goes far deeper than that, but space does not permit such a lengthy response.
“You say miniscule, yet I have seen estimates as high as 10%.”
Estimates of what? 10% of what? and could you provide a source if you are going to quote figures.
“Even if it’s only 5% who embrace extremist ideology, there are 2 million muslims in Australia, 2% of that is 200,000 people who hold to a literal and extremist jihadi understanding of islam.
That’s a heck of a lot of people.
Even if it’s only half that number, it’s still a lot, by any understanding.”
You are making it up as you go along. Those are totally spurious figures with absolutely no basis in fact, mathematical or demographic.
You are in NO position to question others credibility after a statement like that.
Actually there are less than half a million Muslims in Australia
Look Mars88
The facts are that the vast majority of Muslims assimilate into western societies extremely well. I guarantee that, wherever you live, if it’s in a city, then there will be Muslims living in your suburb and you won’t even know.
Why?
Because they’ve assimilated.
That’s especially true of second generation Muslims.
I remember folk shouting , back in the 70s that Vietnamese refugees were taking over and would never assimilate.
We now see that they didn’t take over and did assimilate, beyond even the most optimistic expectations.
Now, you appear to love the word “appeasers”
As I’ve mentioned in an earlier post, a brief reading of history tells us that the use of this word always ends in tears, nearly always innocent tears.
Perhaps you might like to share with us what you believe the word means and give us an example of whom you would consider an “appeaser”.
Anthony… seems I did it again. Overkill on the sarcasm… Sorry about that. It’s something i have to watch. You are not the first to confuse my attempted piss-take with a genuine comment…
ya gotta know him to understand him Anthony. mars08 is a fierce campaigner for social justice. He just has little time for fools and shows it, sometimes a bit rudely, sometimes sarcastically. I am sure he has appreciated your comments.
Kaye, you are in no position to question my credibility, after continually attempting to divert from the question under review, to questionable side issues with little to no bearing on the question at hand.
As for rossleigh, that figure comes from the 2011 census release, there has been 5 years growth since then, and muslims breed a lot faster than western families, plus immigration. Current estimates are close to 2 million.
The scary thing is that I checked the 2013 election results for Dawson, and George Christensen polled 50,541 votes! The Labor candidate got 37,000.
rossleigh, you and your facts!
Just 2.2 per cent of Australians, or 476,300 people, identified as Muslim in the 2011 census. The latest census figures show that Hinduism is the fastest growing religion here, which coincides with the growth in the number of Australians born in India.
“Four source countries dominate our [overall] intake: India, China, UK and New Zealand – more Hindus, Confucians and Christians entering Australia than Muslims by a very long way,” Prof McDonald said. (He is the Professor of Demography at Australian National University).
Things may have changed due to the surge in refugees. We shall see in the next census. Nevertheless, I would like to see Peter’s sources.
“Australians believe the proportion of Muslims in the country is nine times higher than it really is, according to a new international survey comparing public perceptions with actual data.”
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/datablog/2014/oct/30/australians-think-muslim-population-nine-times-greater
Low powered shots fired in pitiful driveby… Deeply flawed shooter confirms lack of credibility.
Australia’s population 2011 was 22.34 million. In 2016 it has just hit 24 million. Are you suggesting that every person born here or migrated in the last 5 years has been Muslim?
And the question under review is George Christensen’s fitness as a public servant. So if I have allowed the conversation to expand, you should be grateful. Perhaps you could tell me what you thought the question under review was.
This from a person who himself said:
Yes, sad.
I can see myself being outed on George’s appeasers list. Except I won’t be able to reply. George is very selective about who he lets comment.
Bravo for having the courage to even look, Kaye.
<
Apart from the IPA, ACL, Christensen, Murdoch, Bernardi and Muslims …………. aren't the Chinese the problem ?
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-24/china-sends-fighter-jets-to-disputed-woody-island/7196786
China is closer to Australia than all of the above …… oh alright maybe not Murdoch.
And those 4 extra subs and $1 trillion seems to lead to that conclusion.
Could be a problem in our own "back yard bob".
Ramping up the fear factor is just another weapon in the arsenal of the ultra right.
I’m from w.a,a right wing nutter producing state,but queensland,you do it best.mark
Must admit I am late to this ‘debate’. (Just jokin about the ‘debate’ bit) But some early (and later) assertions seem worthy of comment. Take this for ‘openers’.
Now who could disagree with that. The ‘Old Testament’ is clearly ‘old’, but then we have:
Who says that these verses of violence are not binding for modern generations? Perhaps you have a ‘link’ re the ‘non binding bit’? But are you seriously suggesting that the (infallible) Christian God got it wrong first time around and needed a ‘second’ go? Or are you suggesting that scripts written centuries ago need (not) to be understood in a particular and peculiar historical context?
While this visiting Peter (as a self proclaimed expert on Islam as written in Arabic) may have something to offer, the evidence is yet to appear.
Peter’s hysterical claim of twenty squillion Australian Muslims just waiting for a chance to behead you shows the danger of allowing people like Christensen to use his public platform to spread hatred and lies.
“Twelve men and boys living within the Australian community are capable of committing an act of terror such as killing a random member of the public, police say. They are part of a larger group of 19 men and boys, seven of whom are in prison.”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-23/12-men-capable-of-terrorist-acts-live-australia/6962360
Christensen says “There are those within our shores who sympathise and even support and actively recruit for Islamic State. These people have declared war on Western civilisations and we would be foolishly naïve to think we are not at war.”
Ironically enough considering his war on the Safe Schools anti-bullying program Christensen goes on to say
“It is we who must not give in to the bullying and the intimidation and speak without fear to our friends and family about our freedoms, our culture, our lifestyle, and the threat radical extremism brings to those freedoms.”
I would suggest that Christensen and Bernardi and Nikolic and Abetz and the other climate change denying homophobes in the Coalition represent a far more significant threat to “our freedoms, our culture, our lifestyle.” Jensen and Abbott want to destroy the “lifestyle” of remote Aboriginal communities. Brandis is whittling away at our freedoms on a daily basis. He also tried to control our culture as Minister for the Arts.
Who is the real threat here?
<
Matters Not
Genius is 1% inspiration 99% hard work.
Looks like "Peter's" inspiration is all done.
Hear ABC radio has picked up the Christensen “story”.
Kaye Lee I hope that’s a rhetorical question.
I’m still trying to figure out tax reform and media ownership.
I wonder if the dishonest, self-righteous, pompous Peter ever actually read the the works of Voltaire…
“Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities”
A quote from Voltaire’s (François-Marie Arouet) 1765 essay “Questions sur les miracles”
FYI. In case anyone thinks I am declaring a deep understanding of Voltaire and his philosophy, I know next to nothing about him. I don’t speak French and I’m definitely not an expert. I just stumbled upon a quote which (sort of) suited my point of view.
Hey…. it’s worth a shot…
I think that may have been too subtle for Peter mars08
Oh good grief, Kaye Lee! I’m either going in like a Mack truck, or drifting by like a Highland mist… Clearly my delivery needs some serious work…
Not at all. Don’t go changing, to try and please me….I took the good times, I’ll take the bad times, I’ll take you just the way you are
I rather enjoyed your last paragraph but am unsure that Peter would understand the connection
Kaye Lee
I look at your mate George and figure the next election will be a pushover.
Then I look at his 2013 election result and think we are pushing shit uphill with a stick
Good ol’ George got 50,451 57.6% +5.1
Geez that’s depressing, I’ll just sit here hitting myself on the head with a hammer .
This bloke is only dangerous to COULROPHOBIACS. The real dangerous ones are those that destroyed the WTC in New York on Sept 11 2001.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-27FGbpBk4
I wonder what George has planned to identify and intercept the sixty or seventy odd men who are going to kill their partners this year.
cornie,
Newman came to power on a swing of 14.5 points. At the next election, the swing to Labor 2PP was 14%. Surely the people of Dawson have seen enough to make a better informed choice this time.
Kaye Lee
Are we certain NoS isn’t George Christensen’s alias?
If not they must be related somewhere along the line to share the same genetic deficiency in their brains.
Does this article have the record for number of comments yet?
We’re a bit off that yet. An article a couple of years ago by Victoria Rollison about the scholarship awarded to Tony Abbott’s daughter had over 400 comments, by memory. More recently, an article by Roswell about Larry Pickering had a huge number of comments, but we had to take that article down because of all the hate and spite the article attracted. It got too nasty.
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTTTD-A_iY5LI6C9viWOMExhwzhDqFu47r1yN9LVP8vLbyIhHJbTkGKPHng
I regularly go to a right wing site and write about climate change. There are constant personnal attacks that are levelled at those who support scientists. So George’s meme about commonsense, decency and morals is bs of the highest order. The tactics used are trying to belittle, try to bully, lie, misrepresent etc as can expected from deniers. My technique to overcome it is to be as polite as possible but information bomb them. It is people who read the comments; rather than, the deniers who are my target, The deniers set themselves up as strawmen.
But, must admit in responding to a key person of a denier group on another site I suggested he was a hired killer. He is no different to those belonging to funded groups who continued to deny the science underpinning smoking.
Christensen has no credibility and never will have. Peter seems to have given up his attempt to appear reasoned late yesterday but he reminds me of writers to our local free paper who claim to have studied the Quran in detail. Never mind the centuries of nuanced Quranic scholarship and the fact it was the Arabs who passed on the baton of science and rational thought from the ancients to the western enlightenment, they convince themselves that Islam is inherently evil. This demonisation has been encouraged by the embarrassing Abbott black shirt approach and ignores the destabilisation of the Middle East caused by the Bush dynasty’s evangelical fundamentalism, supported by Blair’s dubious Christian credentials and wee Johnny’s… well lack of any scruples at all. Meanwhile 1.6bn Muslims go about their business wanting pretty much the same as we do. Attacks by misguided islamists on western targets kill far fewer people than do nut cases with automatic weapons who assassinate their own countrymen in the US. Oh, but Peter has spotted Muslims are breeding like rabbits. And he’s definitely not racist.
George Christensen needs to clean up his own backyard first. It’s well past time that these “good” Christians addressed the issue of kiddy fiddling in the Catholic Church, instead of enabling it. I’d be happy to boot the radical Christians out too, because they’re also a threat to our freedoms and way of life.
Whenever I see a comment from someone in Australia… claiming to have read and understood the Quran, and hadiths… I hear alarm bells… Loud ones!
It is impossible to know what Christensen is trying to achieve. He complained about an online resource for the Safe Schools program that he felt contained questionable links. They have since removed that resource but George is now posting infographics and links to archived material so everyone can access the stuff he doesn’t want anyone to see. If I was able to comment on his page I would ask what he is trying to achieve.
https://www.facebook.com/gchristensenmp/
There are lots that study bible in detail. Some spend their whole life doing so. Very few cone to agreement on what it says. One can read into it, whatever they like., Same goes for Koran, for same reasons.
Looks like Beasley is going to reenter political sphere in a active way, making comment. That could be good.
@ Lee, to be fair it’s not only the Catholics. Any sect, cult or faith which claims they are privileged to the only truth has, as its root cause, a cynic who thinks nothing of sacrificing his (and it’s invariably a male) followers to achieve their deranged pursuit of power. History is littered with them. Sexual abuse is all about power. And I would not rule out fundamentalist pollies. But it looks as if shutting all McDonalds in Queensland and Canberra might be a more rewarding cause for our warrior Georgie Porgie.