They are not economic refugees, Mr Abbott

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ColinOctober 28, 2015 at 7:52 pm

He didn’t embarrass this country. On the contrary, to the extent that anyone cares (and we always overestimate the extent to which the world knows or even cares what happens here), he confirmed why he was gotten rid of.

We couldn’t ignore him when he was PM, but I sure wish people would now.
Mark NeedhamOctober 28, 2015 at 8:10 pm

So every person that is leaving is a true, ridgey ridge refugee.
Please pull the other one.
Mark Needham
paul walterOctober 28, 2015 at 8:11 pm

A good many economic refugees are what many here would feel are genuine refugees in some meaningful sense and if we had the chance of getting out of some shithole in Calcutta or a drought afflicted village in Africa, say, both we and Abbott would jump at it.

If the West doesn’t want to be swamped with global unfortunates it has to A) Pack in the pointless wars and B) Develop an economic model that goes beyond mere ruthless exploitation and imposed dependency elsewhere, using the money it has saved from defence spending and consumer fetishism.

Tony Abbott needs to direct his comments at the big banks and multinationals who control politicians and economies, not gripe at the rest of us.
RoswellOctober 28, 2015 at 8:12 pm

Mark Needham, why don’t you piss off. Everyone here has had a gut full of you.
triestegalOctober 28, 2015 at 8:13 pm

Beautifully written, Roswell.
@ Colin and @pw
10 out of 10. Completely agree.
Michael TaylorOctober 28, 2015 at 8:21 pm

What would you know, Mark? You’d have absolutely no idea.

I have to disclose that my family fled Syria as refugees, so I have more than a passing interest in the situation, as well as more of an understanding what it’s like to flee a country in pursuit of peace and safety.

My family chose Australia: the land of ignorant bigots.

It was a better country when they came here. What on earth has happened to it?
mars08October 28, 2015 at 9:10 pm

Sounds to me like young Tony is trying to “radicalise” the Europeans. Don’t let him come back!
DavidOctober 28, 2015 at 9:17 pm

Ban the tosser troll Needham, we don’t. The thick wanker has had a fair go and then some, his inane comments are just a distraction from the original articles, which is obviously his intention. There is leeway and then there is rubbish Mr N fulfills the latter with interest.
To echo Roswell, piss off.
Ian A.October 28, 2015 at 9:22 pm

You mirror my feelings to the letter Roswell. I was ashamed to hear this clown ” speaking for Australia” still.
RoswellOctober 28, 2015 at 9:24 pm

David, when I have suggested that he be banned he jumps up and down screaming ‘censorship’ or he has ‘a right to free speech’. Personally, I’m in support of blocking him if his right to free speech means we have to put up with his childish bullshit.
SpiralOctober 28, 2015 at 9:51 pm

There’s only so much tolerance that can be shown to a troll who espouses racism and then claims immunity by way of the free speech argument.After many a year trying to use logic and compassion i can now tolerate only the ones that have some value to offer and are not abusive or repeatedly offensive to the victim they persecute with their ideology.All others get short shift and no forebearance as life is too short for suffering fools gladly.If your experience tell you so.”ban the Bastard” and dont look back.
corvus boreusOctober 28, 2015 at 9:51 pm

I wish to lodge objection to mark needham being called a ‘wanker’ and a ‘tosser’.
I have been known to flick the odd one off the wrist, and I deeply resent such demeaning associations sullying my recreational masturbation, Hey!
SpiralOctober 28, 2015 at 9:54 pm

Incidentally I agree with your comments all the way
SpiralOctober 28, 2015 at 9:55 pm

Yours too Corvus boreus..LOL
Glenn KOctober 28, 2015 at 10:25 pm

I read Tony Abbott’s speech. Makes me want to puke – what an idiot, just stupid and so wrong on so many counts. And we’re still paying his salary! What an embarrassment. I live in his electorate. He’s just a dangerous idiot and he won’t go away. Please, someone, slap him down and shut him up.
harshmindOctober 28, 2015 at 10:38 pm

A couple of things I wrote on Facebook this evening:

There’s a trending bit on Facebook I don’t normally take much notice of because I find it difficult to regard the site as anything but the equivalent of a backyard, over the fence, exchange and certainly not a source of serious world news. But one item says Abbott, our former PM and supposedly Christian, has put a bit of spin on the Good Samaritan story by discovering a form of altruism that is “misguided”, so therefore wrong. It was at a Thatcher lecture in the UK… of course. Now, I believe it is as irrational to deny the existence of a creator or supreme being as it is to claim a hotline to his, her or it’s true intentions, but to carve out a slice of the altruistic pie as being somehow misguided paves the way for a hitherto hidden qualification in the parable of the Good Samaritan. This is how sacred texts become justifications for vile deeds. The demonisation of any who do not conform to some narrow interpretation of what is good and right happened in the 1930’s and 40’s and this selective altruism will take us straight back to Auschwitz unless we strongly resist the xenophobic, flag-waving twaddle that made Abbott such an embarrassment as our representative.

But wait, there’s more. Climate change has the potential to make the current surge of migrants look like a few too many people arrived at the bus stop just after we had found a nice seat. The world is changing and we are going to have to adjust. Let’s hope we can do it without losing sight of our common humanity.
kerriOctober 28, 2015 at 10:42 pm

His narrow little, ….very, little mind, …..very, ……extremely, narrow, little mind can only comprehend the reasons for his own emigration
Annie BOctober 28, 2015 at 10:53 pm

Agree with all comments about M. Needham. He is at very best, offensive. Always has been.

………..

I cannot for the life of me understand why this idiot-at-large – Abbott, is going around the world – palavering his absolutely weird and distorted view of life, on unsuspecting listeners. … And being paid for it ???

Apart from whatever banner he has created for himself these days – a tour lecturer ??? – an idiot on the loose ??? — or a public speaker [choke] …. I think it is past time that Malcolm Turnbull reign in his back-bencher and after all, that is ALL he is, and puts stops on him. …. IF he can. …. could be a bit of a test for Turnbull. … He needs to act, and quickly, to put the clamps on this raving lunatic, Abbott.

Who the HELL does this deposed and shamed Prime Minister think he is, to be able to ‘appear’ to still speak on behalf of Australians, on such touchy but very serious subjects. ?? Have said it before, and will say it again — he is one helluva dangerous politician / bloke / what-the-hell ever.

I was in the middle of writing an article for AIM Network, about the Abbotts continuous appearances on the MSM; that they cannot seem to leave him alone – he is ‘media grist’ apparently ??? – – but ( thanks to Roswell ) … all that needs to be said, has been published in detail, in this article.

……

p.s. how the hell does this fool get the speaking engagements he obviously has been able to. ,,, Something stinks there, big time.
mmc1949October 28, 2015 at 10:53 pm

Free speech is not an unqualified, absolute right ….. something those who scream “Censorship” should know.
KyranOctober 28, 2015 at 10:59 pm

Albanese made reference to the LNP commitment to infrastructure, “the only hole they dug was the one they buried their PM in”. Typical of their ineptitude, they didn’t dig it anywhere near deep enough.
The fool not only referred to them as economic migrants, but also made reference to “illegal immigrant boats”. The bastions of lefty, bleeding heart sentiment, the ABC, were running one commentators opinion this morning. Some cretin from UKIP lauding tiny’s courage.
Thank you, Roswell. His speech may have left you cold. The recognition afforded it has left me speechless. Take care
WallyOctober 28, 2015 at 10:59 pm

Who is footing the bill for Abbott to parade around in the UK? Sending a dickhead back bencher to give a speech to foreign politicians is of no benefit to the Australian tax payers.
Annie BOctober 28, 2015 at 10:59 pm

@ harshmind ….

Good words there. Am appalled at the thought ( mine ) that the next ‘thing’ he will spruik about on the world stage, will be his favourite ‘anti’ subject – climate change.

I do so wish someone could invent a permanent dose of laryngitis – and administer it to the Rabbutt.

Silly wishful thinking. Still and all, what a lovely idea.
Matters NotOctober 28, 2015 at 11:35 pm

Roswell wrote:

His speech left me cold.

Not so with me. Intense ‘heat’ was my emotional and intellectual reaction. And at so many levels.

Note also Turnbull’s response. A pat on the head, a few platitudes, but certainly not a criticism. Probably part of the ‘deal’.
mars08October 28, 2015 at 11:54 pm

It’s about domestic politics, nothing more. The Liberals don’t care about the topic of the speech any more than they care about the fate of asylum seekers. Tony is just adding to the anti Muslim hysteria. As always, it’s about snagging the votes of the bigots, bogans, bullies and bedwetters. It’s letting the racists see that the Liberals are as hardcore as ever… even under Turnbull. They are sticking with a proven strategy.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/morrison-sees-votes-in-antimuslim-strategy-20110216-1awmo.html
ItsazoosueOctober 29, 2015 at 12:11 am

Excellent piece, Roswell. I couldn’t agree more. Who was paying him? Did Turnbull approve this speech? Who fact checked it?

corvus boreas, your objection aside, I have long suspected that he, who bookends every comment with his full name, enjoys a form of erotomania caused by seeing his own name in print. So, at the very least, he’s giving wankers a bad name.
mark delmegeOctober 29, 2015 at 3:52 am

Actually I don’t think most are from Syria – though a lot are – from there – and other recently western attacked countries. But they also include economic refugees (bandwagoners) from elsewhere. In some ways Europe deserves to be overrun by these people because they didn’t have the guts to stand up to Empire and oppose the policies that destroyed these countries. Don’t underestimate the vileness of Erdogan either for pushing many of these people into Europe. Only the WikileaksParty (as parties go) in Australia has shown any degree of understanding what is happening.
All you people who want to ban comments you don’t like should take a good hard look at y’self.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 7:19 am

What Tony suggested was that, once a refugee crosses one border, they are no longer a refugee. If they have left the country of persecution/danger, they must stay put in the first country they come to in Tony’s opinion. Turkey and Lebanon and Jordan and Pakistan are already hosting millions of displaced people – apparently Tony thinks everyone should stay there. He can’t see how different our situation is to Europe’s. He also can’t think past “stop the boats”. He offers no solution, no next step. Stop the boats and then what?

He is such a fool.
Terry2October 29, 2015 at 7:26 am

As has been noted elsewhere, the reaction from the conservative audience was less than enthusiastic. There was no spontaneous applause during the talk and only polite – perhaps slightly embarrassed – applause at the conclusion.

And, why if he is encouraging Europeans to adopt his policies on refugees, didn’t he mention that part of his strategy is :

If the asylum seekers get through the barricades, you lock them up on remote islands indefinitely and

if all else fails, bribe the people smugglers on the high seas to take the asylum seekers somewhere – anywhere – else.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 7:41 am

They can deploy their navies to blockade the Mediterranean just like we do. Give guns to custom officers because lord knows we need more guns.
Deanna JonesOctober 29, 2015 at 7:48 am

I have often thought he may actually have a cognitive or psychiatric disability. He has now suddenly abandoned his job and is causing further damage to his reputation in a very public way. Many people doing this would be sectioned under the mental health act.
Adrianne HaddowOctober 29, 2015 at 7:51 am

John Howard and Dyson Heydon must be so proud. The rabbit is their gift to the world.

Are our taxes paying to send him to Europe and the US to spread this poison? We can’t afford a social security system for Australians but this vile individual can keep dipping into the public purse until the day he dies.

His speeches should come with a disclaimer. ‘The views expressed by this mouthpiece are not those of the Australian people and may be detrimental to the mental well being of the listener.’

He would know all about economic refugees, wasn’t he one ?
UnhappyOctober 29, 2015 at 8:29 am

It’s one thing fleeing death cults and the like but you don’t bring that hatred with you and inflict the same on innocent countries that take you in. This is what is happening around the world and for once I actually agree with Abbott.
UnhappyOctober 29, 2015 at 8:31 am

Remember also everyone believed in the Germans to begin with and Adolf Hitler and look where that was taken too! The same will happen with these Muslims. They don’t belong here. The culture and their religion are to barbaric!
Terry2October 29, 2015 at 8:36 am

I hope we’re not paying for this frolic :

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3290714/Former-prime-minister-joined-Peta-Credlin-former-staffers-holiday-French-villa.html
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 8:39 am

. . . but you don’t bring that hatred with you and inflict the same on innocent countries that take you in. This is what is happening around the world . . .

Where is your evidence of this?
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 9:05 am

Unhappy,

I think capital punishment is barbaric. I think domestic violence is barbaric. I think indefinitely incarcerating asylum seekers in concentration camps is barbaric. I think the bigotry displayed by a minority of Australians is barbaric.

Terry2,

And there I was thinking Abbott had done the right thing by taking his wife somewhere for once. It appears once the cameras are off that it’s Peta he spends his time with and I too would like to know if we are paying for his Last Tango Near Paris

http://www.afr.com/brand/rear-window/tony-abbott-going-to-france-with-peta-credlin-and-richard-dowdy-20151026-gkirce?stb=twt
Deanna JonesOctober 29, 2015 at 9:29 am

Unhappy, no they don’t. There is clear evidence that newly arrived people greatly contribute to the countries that flee to, when they are allowed to participate and not locked up in prisons being tortured. It is a mistake to buy into the anti Islam propaganda disseminated by those who seek to profit from the misery that western countries are perpetrating on innocent people. Our government deliberately dehumanises these people to get us to support their barbaric treatment of them. Be more critical and see the truth.
Deanna JonesOctober 29, 2015 at 9:33 am

Kaye, I imagine Margie is glad to be rid of him for a while.
DavidOctober 29, 2015 at 11:04 am

Deanna…Abbott should have been sectioned under the mental health act.years ago. It seems noone was prepared to face the facts until the snake oil salesman plucked up the courage to move on the Lodge. We are witnessing the cost to the nation.
Great example of out of the frying pan into the fire.
DavidOctober 29, 2015 at 11:11 am

Unhappy…your posts reek of racism. They do you no credit
Mark NeedhamOctober 29, 2015 at 11:22 am

AIM is a site, where there are no Conservative Articles. It was intimated the other day that AIM would like to publish such an article, but, none seem to be forth coming.
Now, I wonders to meself ” Why, oh why, would that be Mark”

My initial comment, above, was that they are not all “true refugees”.

Where is the ”Lie”, the “Hate”, the “Racism”, the “Discontent” or the ” Childish Bullshit”, the “Abusive and repeatedly offensive” in that statement, that infuriates you all so much.

gee. I often wonder, if I said something really offensive, then I would understand you.

So again, what is it, that fills your ”dislike criteria” in my first comment.?

C’mon, I really want to know, what it is. Please.

I have had more sensible and meaningfull conversations, over the years, with a true ”True Believer” and never a cranky word or moment. ( Well, very rarely. we have always been cordial mates) Disagreement, by all means, but not this sort of treatment that is so forthcoming, unsolicited and generously donated.

I do not have to justify to you, my Good intent, my Charitable self or Belief, that I am a good Australian, with all the faults ‘n warts of us all.
I do not deserve your venom.
I do not accept your venom.
It does not worry me, your venom.
But I am disappointed by not knowing what, exactly what “In Fact” that has attracted the scorn.

Seeking, Wondering.
Mark Needham

so ban me. I prefer not being banned, but, at the end of the day, it does not matter to me at all. I just want to know, WHY!
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 11:30 am

Every single one of your comments is an iteration of the same “woe is me” stuff Mark. When you first started commenting here you made some dreadful comments about Muslims. Along the way, you may have toned down the words but the attitudes are the same and, in my opinion, your endless comments about yourself contribute nothing to the discussion.
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 11:39 am

Kaye is right, Mark. Most people on this site are appalled at racism, so any hint of it is justifiably attacked.
Mark NeedhamOctober 29, 2015 at 11:55 am

Kaye, and Rosswell. Give me the “Quote” that I made.
Show me the Money.

The Money, I want the Money.

Begging, Pleading on hands ‘n Knees,
Eyes cast upwards, insisting,
Mark Needham
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 12:06 pm

[I have to disclose that my family fled Syria as refugees, so I have more than a passing interest in the situation, as well as more of an understanding what it’s like to flee a country in pursuit of peace and safety]

It is much different when the refugee numbers are small. It allows people to be generous without being frightened of there being a flood of people. Also they are more likely to be targetted political refugees as opposed to a mix of civil war safety seeking or economic refugees.

[My family chose Australia: the land of ignorant bigots]

Get stuffed. That itself is the statement of a bigot.

One of the reasons we do not want Islamic immigration is because they not just tend to be but generally are arrogant bigots. That is what the Cronulla riots were about – middle eastern arrogance.

In terms of bigotry, Australia is no different from any other country that has had excessive immigration for a long time. It has just been a lot more “in your face” lately due to the antics of Abbott and co.
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 12:08 pm

No. I don’t have time. It is much easier for me to instead ask that you tone down the racism and to stop sniping at people . . . then maybe people will get off your back.

You are capable of informed discussion. I have seen it. I even enjoyed the article you wrote for The AIMN.

So let’s just forget about the past and start again, shall we?
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 12:10 pm

Jimhaz, get stuffed yourself. What’s the bet you haven’t had to endure racism?
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 12:10 pm

[There is clear evidence that newly arrived people greatly contribute to the countries that flee to]

That is blatantly not true. Not on a net basis.
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 12:14 pm

One of the reasons we do not want Islamic immigration is because they not just tend to be but generally are arrogant bigots. That is what the Cronulla riots were about – middle eastern arrogance.

You are a total idiot. You are a dead set moron.

Go and take your racist, bigoted crap somewhere else.
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 12:26 pm

[What’s the bet you haven’t had to endure racism]

That is true. Nothing of any note. Just dismissiveness and a bit of bullying from 1 manager only.

I understand how racism received can cause a reactionary effect and this may cause migrants (or aborigines) to be more racist than they would otherwise have been – but adherents to the muslim religion are a different kettle of fish. They have the typical fundamentalist superiority complex.
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 12:29 pm

[You are a total idiot. You are a dead set moron]

Yep. A bigot demonstrated. No tolerance to the views of others.
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 12:34 pm

jimhaz, your attack on me was personal and I responded accordingly.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 12:34 pm

Mark,

You have carried on about female genital mutilation like it is a religious rather than cultural practice, condemning all Muslims for it. Despite admitting to never having met a Muslim, you said you would not be happy if your daughter brought one home. You have said Aborigines should just get over it and that homosexuals are “iffy”. You think asylum seekers are bludgers and potential terrorists. You say there is no proof of abuse in our detention centres. You patronisingly and dismissively called me sweety as I tried to discuss issues with you.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 12:38 pm

jimhaz,

You are wrong about the cause of the Cronulla riots.

“A verbal exchange had taken place after three lifesavers approached a group of four young Lebanese men on Cronulla Beach with both groups accusing the other of staring at them. One of the Lebanese men reportedly responded to the accusations, “I’m allowed to; now f*ck off and leave our beach”, to which a lifesaver responded, “I come down here out of my own spare time to save you dumb c*nts from drowning; now piss off, you scum”.”

A very typical and far too common testosterone-fuelled pissing match by young men which escalated due to idiots like Alan Jones in an atmosphere of racism promoted by John Howard. I too was subjected to discrimination from surfies who made it very clear that people from the western suburbs were not welcome on “their” beach.
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 12:45 pm

Thank you, Kaye. You have the grace that I lack. I admit to being angry. Nay, ropable.
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 12:45 pm

[Your attack on me was personal]

Disagreement is always personal. We become attached to our opinions – and the more there is argument the more attached we become.

I felt I was reacting to you calling us “the land of ignorant bigots”…..and I don’t think it is that true – or at least it would not be true if we did not have practically the highest OS born population in the OECD world, we’d be freer to be welcoming. It often feels like our politicians have sold off the nice Australia that was developing in the 90’s.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 12:52 pm

I too had great hope in the 90s. The Berlin Wall had come down. Apartheid was over. The Cold War was a thing of the past. China was opening its doors. I was hoping for a new century of enlightenment but it seems we are going backwards.

A new study shows Australian society is more cohesive than ever but it sure doesn’t feel like it. Thank god Abbott is gone. We may be able to start healing (if we get rid of Dutton and Christensen and the like).
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 12:53 pm

[You are wrong about the cause of the Cronulla riots]

That was a catalyst type cause not the main cause. The main cause was accumulated over years and it was Lebanese arrogance and uncouthness that people increasingly got sick of.

[I too was subjected to discrimination from surfies who made it very clear that people from the western suburbs were not welcome on “their” beach]

Yes, well we expect this. It applies to everyone at any surf beach. People protect what they see as theirs, what they grew up with. It is the same reasoning that supposedly underlies mutliculturalism – allowing people to do the things they did when young, traditions.
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 12:55 pm

It often feels like our politicians have sold off the nice Australia that was developing in the 90’s.

Bingo! And it got worse from there. I never experienced racism until the 90s, and it went viral after 2005.

PS. I shouldn’t have responded to you the way I did.
Kate MOctober 29, 2015 at 1:03 pm

I’m always disappointed that articles about refugees bring out the worst in a certain group of people. Not just on this site – but on other sites as well.

Refugees are – by indisputable definition – fleeing persecution, torture or a high risk of death. That is what a refugee is. That’s not debatable. Not ALL people who seek asylum are determined to be refugees – but of those coming to Australia, over 90% are.

Why ANYONE would think that people fleeing persecution, torture and certain death are worthy of vilification rather than mercy and compassion is beyond me.

Of course there are issues with multiculturalism – whether it’s through resettled refugee or migrants – just ask the Aborigines. But new people also bring new ideas, new perspective and growth. Change is always challenging – and we live in a time of greater change than any other in recorded history. But blaming the discomfort of change on refugees is misguided, misinformed and, by definition, bigoted.

Thanks for the excellent article Roswell.
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 1:04 pm

[We may be able to start healing (if we get rid of Dutton and Christensen and the like)].

Yes, we are certainly on the same team in that regard. I may seem as vicious as them, but I’m not really. I just want Australia to be rich enough per capita to help the long term unemployed here and i do not wish to import people that will retain regressive views over the long term (as I believe the Islamic religion does) and that just makes “whole of society” improvement more difficult.
stephengb2014October 29, 2015 at 1:08 pm

Wow – that stirred up a bitter exchange!

Now can we have a rational conversation about
1. the intollerance of some people of any colour or creed that is shown to others?
2. The reason why this has happened in a country that has traditionally prided itself on its propensity for egalitarian ideals?
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 1:08 pm

I grew up with many Lebanese friends and I found them and their families incredibly welcoming and hospitable. I also taught many Lebanese young men at high school. I found them the same as most adolescent males, none of whom like to be challenged in front of others or humiliated. I treated my students with respect and expected and got the same in return.

I have broken up a thousand playground fights during my 20 years of teaching in the 80s and 90s. They never had a racial component but sadly, that seems to have changed. I don’t think you can single out middle-eastern kids. Asian gangs and Islanders and bikies and all sorts of groupings are engaging in anti-social behaviour so we need to look at how we are failing them.

Poverty, unemployment, lack of affordable housing, lack of infrastructure, needs-based education funding, mentoring for young teachers….so many issues to look at. Don’t blame the symptom, look for the cause.
Kate MOctober 29, 2015 at 1:12 pm

Oh – and while I’m on the topic of definitions, making blanket assumptions about Muslims is erroneous. (I had a ruder word there – but I curbed my enthusiasm). You can’t say all Christians are the same. Or all Jews. Or all Buddhists. Or all any religion.

Here’s a great video on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzusSqcotDw
jimhazOctober 29, 2015 at 1:13 pm

[PS. I shouldn’t have responded to you the way I did]

No its OK, you are completely entitled to be angry. There is no doubt a degree of selfishness to my views.

We need people with kind and generous hearts to fight the far right wingers – but just don’t expect the middle ground to be the same when there is fear involved. I fear Islamic stupidity, seeing as it will be on top of all the other stupidities we already have like fundie Christians and neocons.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 1:29 pm

As for refugees not contributing,

The ABS just released figures that show

“While almost two-thirds of migrant taxpayers were migrants with a Skilled visa – reporting $26 billion in Employee income – Humanitarian migrants displayed greater entrepreneurial qualities and reported a higher proportion of income from their own unincorporated businesses and this income increased sharply after five years of residency.”

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/3418.0Media%20Release12009-10?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3418.0&issue=2009-10&num=&view=

There is the specific example of Nhill in Victoria showing how well it can work

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-09/dunlop-accepting-refugees-makes-the-most-economic-sense/6761770

And even if we brought the asylum seekers here and some stayed on the dole, it would be far cheaper than keeping them locked up and that money would be spent in the domestic market rather than given to Tony Shepherd and the other shareholders in Transfield. It could make a huge difference to willing rural communities.

Language is usually the only factor holding them back so English classes for those who need them would help a lot.
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 1:35 pm

Thank you for the compliments.

I’m sorry though that some of my articles ignite angst.
ThomOctober 29, 2015 at 2:01 pm

They are refugees from war if they leave a dangerous place and seek protection.
They are economic refugees when they then go further and demand to go to Germany or Austria.
They are then looking to do more than escape persecution, they are seeking to improve their way of life beyond simple safety.
A poor family in Turkey or states neighboring Syria would consider it an opportunity to travel to Europe and seek a better life.
Almost all refugees arriving in Europe have discarded all proof of identity.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 2:18 pm

So they should be content with life in a refugee camp? And Turkey, Jordan and Lebanon should happily provide for all of them?

Could you provide a link to your last assertion please Thom?
Kate MOctober 29, 2015 at 2:45 pm

Have you been writing Tony Abbott’s speeches for him Thom?

You and he seem to inhabit the same world of factless assertions…..
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 2:50 pm

Well, I’m glad I’m not a refugee, a Muslim, an Aborigine, gay or on welfare, as there would be a lot of brushes out there tarring me.
mars08October 29, 2015 at 2:52 pm

@Michael Taylor… I suspect that you’ll agree that the racism dished out to non-Anglos in the second half of last century…. was very tame compared to the horrible, cruel, hysterical, vile rubbish being spewed by the current mob of rednecks.
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 3:45 pm

Too true, mars08. Working in aboriginal affairs for so long it was though I could look at aborigines standing in front of a white background, and look at white people standing in front of a black background, if that makes any sense. But no matter how you looked at it, the aborigines were treated the worse.
Mark NeedhamOctober 29, 2015 at 4:02 pm

Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 12:34 pm

Mark,

You have carried on about female genital mutilation like it is a religious rather than cultural practice, condemning all Muslims for it. Despite admitting to never having met a Muslim, you said you would not be happy if your daughter brought one home. You have said Aborigines should just get over it and that homosexuals are “iffy”. You think asylum seekers are bludgers and potential terrorists. You say there is no proof of abuse in our detention centres. You patronisingly and dismissively called me sweety as I tried to discuss issues with you.

* Kaye, I call lots of girls in my life, sweety, possum, mate ( never a guy, I hate that word, Guy!) et al. Not a crime yet, is it?

* FMG, so you are a proponent of it, are you.? ( of course you aren’t, so why have a go at me about it. I don’t approve of it either, whether it is Muslim, or what ever tribe practice it) Let’s get up the poor buggers who do practice it, at least for the children, who suffer.

* I never said that about a daughter bringing a Muslim home. An absolute lie, and you know it.

* “Iffy” mate I am iffy about chocolate on ice cream, as I said, it does not matter to me, one or the other. I am just a bit iffy, that is all.

* Yes, Aborigines should get over it. As we have got over the Japanese atrocities during WW2. Move on. Do not drown in sorrow, despair and “woe is me”. Over the flogging I got in Parramatta one night in the 60’s, over South Africa losing against the Kiwis. Remember, by all means, but get over it.

*Bludgers and terrorists, in the asylum seekers. Not really sure that I said that either, (proof would be nice, as you are the one pointing the finger)

* Patronising. OK, I did apologise for that. But no one has been patronising or dismissive of me, here, have they????? A bit more like being, downright charmingly rude etcetera.

So, I gather there is no proof, forthcoming, about my Racism, Bigotry, Hatred.

Kaye, all I have done here, is be a grub and pull up the “Glaringly obvious misleading, overreaching arguments and statements that have been made.

mate, Roswell said in the above article:-
“He ( Mr Abbot) said most of the millions pouring into Europe were not “genuine refugees”, rather “economic migrants.” ”

next Roswell said “I can’t believe he said that. I can’t believe he believes it, either. If he does, then one must wonder how disconnected from reality he is.”
I merely challenged Roswells statement, that is all I did.

Or, Roswell, has proof that this is not the case????????

If you are prepared to make a statement, please, some facts. I am not saying that Abbot is correct, but if you mob, know something to be untrue, then surely you should provide the facts that prove Abbot to be wrong. I would love to know about it also. But no Gossip, Hey!
That is all I have tried to ask for. No guesses, No “I reckon”, no Could be, should be or what if’s. Some bloody facts.

So here I am, Kaye, as you are the only with a bit of guts to have a go, talking to you. The rest of the unknown warriors, who slipped me a quick clip around the ear, are all lying low. Most probably, the sort, who kick and run away, when the man is down. Yeah, know about them, seen ’em all. Mostly bastards. Gutless Bastards. (There, I have had a go)
Badgered but not beaten,
Mark Needham
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 4:09 pm

What a rant.

Don’t you read the papers? Can’t you see that they’re bombing the crap out of Syria? And you want me to provide proof that people fleeing are not Abbott’s economic refugees.

Give me a break.
Deanna JonesOctober 29, 2015 at 4:26 pm

Thom, the reason that people fleeing persecution sometimes discard their identity is so that those persecuting them don’t kill them because of who they are. It is an act of survival.

Like others here I have had the pleasure of teaching many university students from Arabic cultures including Muslim cultures. I also have many Muslim colleagues. The myths about these people are just myths. There may be a few with regressive views but this is the case across all cultures and religions, just look at our government and Reclaim Australia.

Almost ten years after the Cronulla Riots people are still confused about the reasons for it. There is now a wealth of scholarly literature regarding the reasons and there were several: anti – Arab racism, the psychological swarming of the crowd largely incited by the bigoted rantings of Alan Jones which he later paid a fine for, entitlement to public space in an area that is affluent and mostly made up of white christians, the fear mongering of Howard and the perception that one group’s women were being treated badly by another group. If you research race riots you find that this perception of one group that ‘their’ women are being harassed by another group of ‘others’ is a very common factor in race rioting. In this case the nice white boys got all up on their high horses because the harassment of white women at the beach is their responsibility and nobody else’s.

And seriously, Mark Needham, stop expecting everyone else to educate you. Go and do some reading, you’re on the internet after all. No excuses left for being ignorant.
Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 5:03 pm

“at least 81% of those migrants entering Greece can expect to receive refugee status or some other form of protection in the EU. The figure for those entering Italy, who are a far more diverse bunch, is 46%.”

“under the European Commission’s new proposal to relocate 160,000 asylum-seekers from Italy, Greece and Hungary to most other EU countries, only nationals from countries with acceptance rates over 75% will be eligible. For now that means Syrians, Eritreans and Iraqis. According to the UNHCR’s figures, these three groups account for 62% of total arrivals by sea this year.”

“the headline numbers suggest that the vast majority of illegal migrants reaching Europe will be eligible for protection once they arrive.”

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2015/09/economist-explains-4
paul walterOctober 29, 2015 at 5:19 pm

Thicker than ten planks of four-be, some of them. My god, most of us wouldn’t last twenty four hours in the situation many asylum seekers find themselves. We’d be like the folk in Send Them Back Where They Belong, utterly traumatised, very quick.

We Aussies are like mushrooms.. you know the rest. Cotton woolled from reality, we don’t understand we are the exception not the rule, for adequate living standard s and a peaceful existence. It has been sixty years since any sort of real adversity troubled us, the last generation to know any hardship, apart from persecuted groups like Aborigines, has almost died out now.
WallyOctober 29, 2015 at 6:22 pm

Mark Needham

Yes, Aborigines should get over it

What should they get over? Being treated like shit by a government that doesn’t care, being treated as third rate (dare I say when so many are outcast) citizens or the impact of the drugs and alcohol introduced to them by the people who have invaded their country?

You get upset with peoples comments on this forum I doubt if you would survive very long walking in the shoes of an indigenous person.
Michael TaylorOctober 29, 2015 at 6:35 pm

Well said, Wally.
johnlord2013October 29, 2015 at 6:43 pm

I have only just caught up with this. Mark often comments on my work which I try to ignore because it is always laced with an air of superiority. Even sighting his name after every comment empathises this. Only a small thing I know but none the less of putting. My advice to Mark would be as follows.

‘IF you have a point of view, feel free to express it. However, do so with civility. Then your point of view is laced with a degree of dignity.’

Then people might respect you. At the moment they don’t.
paul walterOctober 29, 2015 at 7:01 pm

Obviously a troll and someone who makes the likes of Dutton and Abbott seem rational humanitarians by comparison.

Wouldnt you love to can him at Manus or Palm Island for six months and then see if he has changed his outlook, when finally confronted with a living reality?

That is, if he hasn’t had his liver split in the meantime
mars08October 29, 2015 at 7:47 pm

“…Aborigines should get over it. As we have got over the Japanese atrocities during WW2….”

Ummm, huh? What? How is that equivalent? It was a war… and Australia won. And we killed thousands and thousands of Japanese. And nobody had their culture practically destroyed. And it was all over in less than five years. And many diggers never forgave the Japanese. And… a whole bunch of otber reasons why Mark’s statement was so ridiculous.
The AIM NetworkOctober 29, 2015 at 8:15 pm

Mark wants Aborigines to get over 200 years of oppression yet can’t handle criticism directed at himself. Yes, he should try walking in the shoes of an Indigenous person. He wouldn’t last one step.
Deanna JonesOctober 29, 2015 at 8:24 pm

Mark’s understanding of colonisation and the consequences for the First Nations peoples would make a kindergartener feel superior.
mars08October 29, 2015 at 8:41 pm

“He wouldn’t last one step.”

How fortunate for him… and oddly convenient…

https://www.tumblr.com/whiteseducatingwhites/28506313687/white-privilege-101-starting-with-the-knapsack
Backyard BobOctober 29, 2015 at 9:37 pm

Mark is quite the dumbo, no doubt, but despite the ignorance of his views others here are much ruder to him than he is to other posters, therefore talk of banning him seems grotesquely hypocritical. It seriously makes this place look like a typical mindless right wing bogan joint that can’t and won’t tolerate any difference of view. What he is harming but your sensibilities? What do they trump, exactly?

Is this place just a circle jerk for a clique who want a comfortable and safe place to do that – i.e. a political porn site – or a forum that wants to be taken seriously in the broader reality of social media? I can pretty much accommodate either option, but I can’t handle the ambiguity that is evident.

Oh, and by the way, Mark, your near complete absence of empathy for the loss of “place” for Indigenous people means you’ve most likely never identified with any “place” other than your own ego, which you evidently take with you whence you go . Just sayin’
Backyard BobOctober 29, 2015 at 10:06 pm

It’s something of a human tragedy that what I think is a necessary and important conversation that must be had regarding the growth of Islam in contemporary democratic societies has to be couched within the confused, vitriolic and sometimes hysterical environment of the fundamentally fantastical war on terror – and other sundry schemes.

It makes sober discussion of the natural and unavoidable tensions between democratic and theocratic paradigms almost impossible.
mars08October 29, 2015 at 10:27 pm

What he is harming but your sensibilities? What do they trump, exactly?

As I see it, views such has his…. when amplified by a clueless, sensationalist msm and lazy, amoral, opportunist politicians… have real-world consequences. Is that something to be tolerated these days? Frankly I don’t see how his frequent and frivolous juvenile remarks can help matters.
RoswellOctober 29, 2015 at 10:28 pm

Bob, I see your point but you haven’t had to tolerate Mark as long as we have. It gets tedious. It gets frustrating.
Matters NotOctober 29, 2015 at 10:54 pm

My ‘advice’ re Mark Needham, Neil of Sydney and the like has always been to (perhaps) ‘read’ but don’t respond, unless of course on the rare occasion a ‘point’ is made. (Even then, hold off. Think of the ‘greater good’.)

But I know from any number of ‘experiences’, such advice will be ignored.

‘Censorship’ shouldn’t even be under consideration. Let them write as often as they see fit. But don’t encourage their ‘nonsense’ by responding.

Not that my ‘advice’ on this occasion will have any long term ‘effect’. But for some, at least, it may have an ‘affect’.
Annie BOctober 29, 2015 at 10:57 pm

@ Deanna Jones & David …. …. A link for you to peruse, if you wish.

http://mhrm.mhcc.org.au/chapter-4/4c.aspx ( Mental Health Co-ordinating Council ).

In this is a section # 4C.3 … which states the following for all the world to see :

Having any one of the following does not mean you are a mentally ill person or a mentally disordered person. They are not enough, on their own, to be the basis of you being admitted to hospital against your will:

* having strong political beliefs or engaging in political activity;
* holding particular religious opinions or beliefs;
* having an intellectual disability or developmental disability;

Which is rather interesting. It seems to ‘protect’ politicians in particular, from being seriously observed, as to their mental capabilities. It is also – at the same time – a form of generalisation. But as much confusion reigns over what is legally seen as ‘mentally ill’ … or not …. it is not surprising that this link and its information is at times convoluted.

I have often thought much the same – that the former PM in this Government, has some form of mental abberation ( to put it mildly ). But we must be careful in labelling any person in such a way. … Especially these days !!

……….

@ Wally ….

Re : who might be footing the bill for the French Villa revelries that are under-way ?…. I would lay my house and contents, on monies coming from the public purse for this … Tax payers paying for the Rabbutt and his ‘friends’ to have a wonderful ‘break’ from all the hard work they do ( choke ).

I only hope they don’t break any more marble tables while they are there – geez – they might have to PAY for that !! … Oh, woe.

………
mars08October 29, 2015 at 10:58 pm

An (in)famous man once said: “…it’s hard to imagine that citizens of a pluralist democracy could have succumbed to such delusions – yet clearly they have. The Australian Government will be utterly unflinching towards anything that threatens our future as a free, fair and multicultural society; a beacon of hope and exemplar of unity-in-diversity…”
mark delmegeOctober 29, 2015 at 11:11 pm

Kaye LeeOctober 29, 2015 at 9:05 am I just hope they forgot the butter.
mark delmegeOctober 29, 2015 at 11:13 pm

mars on a not unrelated matter
I’m getting awfully f’n sick of the ABC/RN anti Russian propaganda – at times it becomes hysterical. However bad Murdoch is in its foreign news reporting ABC goes the extra mile in the bullshit department. But it’s not just the straight news that is the problem the propaganda spills over to ordinary radio programs. Anyway it should come as no surprise that the newly appointed head of news Gaven Morris previously worked for CNN and al Jazeera.

About Gaven Morris (from the ABC website)

22ND OCTOBER 2015
New Director and Deputy Director for ABC News
The ABC is pleased to announce the appointment of Gaven Morris as Director ABC News. Currently ABC Head of News Content, Gaven brings extensive journalism and management experience to the position with a career that spans two decades and includes senior roles within the ABC, CNN, Al Jazeera English and Network Ten.
…….
Gaven Morris has been Head of News Content for ABC News since late 2012. This role includes overseeing all of ABC News’s digital and broadcast news output – scheduled television and radio news bulletins, News 24, NewsRadio, the Asia-Pacific News Centre and online and mobile news services.
Gaven has extensive experience as a news executive, news editor, reporter and producer. He spent almost a decade in international news, first at CNN in London as an online and television reporter and as a roving international news producer and senior editor. During this time, Gaven covered numerous significant news stories, including the war in Iraq, the 2nd Intifada in the Middle East, the Liberian civil war and terrorist attacks in London and Europe. In 2005, Gaven moved to the Middle East and spent three years in Doha as a member of the team that set up Al Jazeera English.
In 2008, Gaven returned to Australia and took up the role of ABC National Editor, for ABC News Online. He was later promoted to the newly created role of ABC Head of Continuous News and oversaw breaking news content across all platforms.
In his early career, Gaven was a reporter for the 7.30 Report, a reporter on the current affairs program ‘Attitude’, a producer and reporter for the ABC and Network Ten in Canberra’s press gallery and a newspaper journalist for the Canberra Times.
Annie BOctober 30, 2015 at 12:33 am

What has struck me most during this back and forth here, on Roswells’ well written article – is that being anti-Muslim has replaced the almost worn out anti-Semitism ( although that is still alive and well, and living in most corners of the world ).

But generally, across populaces, and with the aid of fear-filled edicts from politicians and media to the person on the street, being ‘anti-Muslim’ has become the flavour of the month / year.

It is generally accepted that all homo-sapiens, from which we are descended, were dark skinned. If just half or even 1/4 the population of the adult world took time to study their origins, there might be a little more peace.

After all, it is ‘ the differences’ that cause people to stop and stare, sometimes glare … and allow racism to raise its ugly head, if people have been taught or encouraged to do that. Lack of understanding is a curse on all. Whites against black or coloured dark skins, and vice versa. General mistrust on too many occasions. …. and throw into that mix, religion – of all kinds, particularly the radicals, and we have the currently seen recipe for disaster – and more disaster.

Of course, it is not as simple as that – education, environment, upbringing and political ideologies across the world, play a big part in how people respond to one another.

It is a complex issue – ( an understatement ) … and ideals for bettering ourselves personally, are not to the fore at this time.

Have we resumed the ‘dog eat dog’ mentality ? …. if so, we have regressed back to some very dark times in history.

Why is it so ?

……..
paul walterOctober 30, 2015 at 2:11 am

That is one of the best things you have written. The media and press, Goebbels-like, nurture it, the politicians feed off it and the public is loaded with irrational Chicken Little fears and hangups. Every time I see some muslim abused on a bus by a redneck or a woman mocked for her clothing I wonder, how far have we slipped, and is this Alabama.
RoswellOctober 30, 2015 at 3:29 am

Thank you, Paul. That’s a huge compliment.
paul walterOctober 30, 2015 at 5:09 am

Roswell, all the thread starters here are good and what’s more, I thought Annie’s comment expanded on it really well.
mars08October 30, 2015 at 6:16 am

In the 21st century, any politician (in the English speaking world) who was blatantly anti-semitc… would be looking at a very short career.
Mark NeedhamOctober 30, 2015 at 10:36 am

No money.

I rest my case
Mark Needham
Kaye LeeOctober 30, 2015 at 10:44 am

I repeated to you many examples of your bigotry. Surprisingly enough, others here are not as interested in hearing about you as you are in talking about yourself. If you have anything to add to the discussion, feel free. If you want to continually talk about your treatment here could I recommend hitting the red x.
mark delmegeOctober 30, 2015 at 11:48 am

Notions like racism and bigotry are built on ignorance of the sort illustrated by Mark above but are repeated by our media and politicians every day. I’d argue that the sort of bias in our media is more than just political alignments or reflecting cultural bias. When our media is intentionally (politically) blind to so much of what is happening in the world they demonstrate their own racism and bigotry and encourage it in others.
jimhazOctober 30, 2015 at 12:06 pm

Why is it so ?

Because some of us have seen for over a decade now this is the starting period of a clash of civilisations and events keep occurring in an escalating manner that support this view. It may not end up as large formalised wars, but it does appear there will be terrorism, reprisals, civil wars and large refugee flows of Muslims to the west for decades.

Forget the racism that people weave into this human drama, that is still just a convenient association. It is more about rational fear of future loss. Yes this fear causes polarisation in which real racism can be generated, and looking at what Merkel has done, it will expand significantly in Europe – but at the moment racism here isn’t really the issue, it is more about justifiable rejection of a group that contains too high a percentage of destructive or regressive people. It is the same as a parent not allowing their 18 year old an open Facebook invite for their 18th birthday party – you don’t want the risk of the wrong people coming along, even though the majority are harmeless.
Mark NeedhamOctober 30, 2015 at 1:22 pm

Kaye Lee. I called you on every one of your points.
I denied every one.
You can not/will not supply proof to your animosity.
If those are the best pointers that you can find in my rants, to enable me to be called a Racist Biggotted person, then I am glad that you are no longer teaching.
There was no proof forthcoming from you.
No Money, No Proof.
Your argument is dead.
Mark Needham

PS. Others also call me the same, coming in halfway through a conversation, making incorrect assumptions. Those, I shall ignore, as unworthy of any comment. This is fast turning into a puddle of “gabble” to which I should retire.
I would like to meet some of you people, ( not knowing names) converse over a cuppa and wonder if we would be at this same point. I wish it could have been so, but alas, the written word can be such a misleading presenter of ideals.
Peace to you all.
Backyard BobOctober 30, 2015 at 1:23 pm

Roswell,

Bob, I see your point but you haven’t had to tolerate Mark as long as we have. It gets tedious. It gets frustrating.

Of course this is true; I know that sort of frustration all too well. But however much Mark’s views are worthy of rejection or even condemnation, that is not justification for a call for banning. I see that sort of reactionary behaviour as disturbing on a psychological level. Let the man speak his mind; he’s entitled to do so no matter how wrong or misguided we may perceive him to be. It is not a moral crime to be wrong and misguided. Is he capable of learning and change? Maybe not, but that’s not a crime either; it is merely a misfortune. People keep claiming Mark likes to make it about him, but the truth is that everyone else actually does that.

His views echo a very real and very significant attitude that permeates Australian culture. Hell you can’t even have an innocent discussion about Vegemite on Facebook without the anti-Halal crowd ruining it with their hyperbolic ranting. What Mark represents is something we must face head-on. We can’t simply make it disappear by silencing it. I honesty believe we ought suck up that frustration and endure the tedium for the sake of larger ideals we value.
mars08October 30, 2015 at 2:45 pm

How odd that the meeeja hysteria about radicalisation and violence is only focused in one direction… http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-30/man-tried-to-pull-woman's-hijab-off-in-melbourne-library-attack/6898198
KyranOctober 30, 2015 at 4:27 pm

mars08, that incident highlights so many of the points in the article and ensuing comments. From what I’ve read, she was attacked in daylight at the State Library. This is the starting venue for the Welcome to Australia rally, tomorrow at 11.00am. From what I’ve read, a 16 year old lad went to her assistance. I have no idea of the motivations of the thug who attacked her. I’m tipping the hysterical meeeja won’t even report tomorrows rally. But they will most certainly continue to speculate why ‘they’ are radicalised, but ‘our’ thug wasn’t. He was just taking exception to nasty headwear. I’m betting he won’t be at the Melbourne Cup, next Tuesday, assaulting women with headwear.
Take care
mars08October 30, 2015 at 4:50 pm

@Kyran… I suspect that many of the people attending the Melbourne Cup will be assaulting their livers and falling down on their own, without the help of redneck thugs…
Mark NeedhamOctober 30, 2015 at 5:16 pm

Backyard Bob. “Is he capable of learning and change?”

Bob, do you know how to prove my Racist Bigotry, through my comments here on the AIM Network?
It is obvious that you do, so, can you please, please show me that proof!

Am I capable of learning and change?

Bob, no one has been able to teach me anything yet, that I need to change. I am begging for facts, but…..I have been waiting for a long time now.

Please!
In anticipation,
Mark Needham
RoswellOctober 30, 2015 at 5:37 pm

Mark, I asked if we could all move on and start again.

But if you must know, my real problem had been the way you kept telling us what to write about. For example, we’d have a topic up about Abbott and you’d keep derailing it telling us that we should be writing about Shorten. It was rather obnoxious after a while.

Despite what people might think, we don’t ban people because they have different opinions. Quite the opposite, we welcome it.

So as far as I was concerned, that wasn’t an issue for me. Though I might add that I’m only one of a handful of moderators. Others might think differently to me.

However, I suggested that we all move on.

Now, can we get back to the topic?
mark delmegeOctober 30, 2015 at 6:24 pm

https://www.rebelmouse.com/thehumanfaucet/1399965631.html how about a laff instead?
mark delmegeOctober 30, 2015 at 7:10 pm

This was written in December 2013 and a lot has changed since but Uncle Samuel still publicly demands regime change as it has from the start or even prior. These are the central themes behind the flood of refugees – aided and abetted by the white christian nations (US UK France and of course Australia) in cahoots with the most rabid sunni muslim states. Fortunately christian (orthodox) Russia shia Iran and others are now turning the tide on extremism.

Maybe (?) this can help Mark and Jim understand what is happening and why. If you guys want to poke a bone at least aim in the right direction.

http://english.al-akhbar.com/blogs/sandbox/security-arc-forms-amidst-mideast-terror-0
Mark NeedhamOctober 30, 2015 at 7:17 pm

So, Needham is a Racist Bigot.
I have been fairly calm about it, actually.
But, forget it Mark.
Get over it. That is what happens in the world today. No proof, not required, you are, because we don’t like what you don’t say.

“”Mark, I asked if we could all move on and start again.”” Yes, by all means. Can I call everyone a racist Bigot, next time. LOL, or LOFL.
Moving to the back of the Bus,
Mark Needham
KyranOctober 30, 2015 at 7:34 pm

mars08 @ 4.50 pm. A fascinator, indeed. Roswell, a bit of advice. Never challenge someone to a battle of wits, when they are unarmed. To wit, witless. Take care
RoswellOctober 30, 2015 at 8:00 pm

Mark, I’m giving up on you. You are impossible to have an intelligent, civil conversation with.
WallyOctober 30, 2015 at 8:26 pm

Roswell

Too many big words (“impossible, intelligent, conversation”) in one sentence for Mark to comprehend.

I suspect the lights are on but no one is home, the cause could be too many cones, to many drinks or a chemical imbalance in the brain.

The later is an occupational hazard for electricians, occurs after getting too many shocko’s.
The AIM NetworkOctober 30, 2015 at 9:38 pm

But however much Mark’s views are worthy of rejection or even condemnation, that is not justification for a call for banning.

There hasn’t even been any consideration given to banning Mark.

People are generally only blocked from commenting if we receive numerous complaints (via the ’email us’ facility) about the particular person, and after warnings are given to that person.

If the presence of a person here is turning people away from this site then it is in our best interest to see them blocked.

We also block commenters who come here for no other reason than to repeatedly denigrate others.
mark delmegeOctober 30, 2015 at 10:10 pm

A plane leaves Los Angeles airport under the control of a Jewish captain. His copilot is Chinese. It’s the first time they’ve flown together, and an awkward silence between the two seems to indicate a mutual dislike.

Once they reach cruising altitude, the Jewish captain activates the auto-pilot, leans back in his seat, and mutters, “I don’t like Chinese.”

“No like Chinese?” asks the copilot, “Why?”

“You people bombed Pearl Harbor, that’s why!”

“No, no,” the co-pilot protests, “Chinese not bomb Peahl Hahbah! That Japanese, not Chinese.”

“Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese… doesn’t matter, you’re all alike!”

There’s a few minutes of silence…

“I no like Jews either!” the copilot suddenly announces.

“Oh yeah, why not?” asks the captain.

“Jews sink Titanic.”

“What? That’s insane! Jews didn’t sink the Titanic!” exclaims the captain, “It was an iceberg!”

“Iceberg, Goldberg, Greenberg, Rosenberg …no mattah… all same.”
Matters NotOctober 30, 2015 at 10:56 pm

My comment of October 29, 2015 at 10:54 pm re those who ‘offer nothing’ is validated. Again, again and again.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. (And no that ‘insight wasn’t down to Einstein.)

BTW mark delmege, that’s not a bad joke. Certainly elicited a smile.
mars08October 31, 2015 at 10:23 am

so…
Backyard BobOctober 31, 2015 at 10:43 am

Admin wrote:

There hasn’t even been any consideration given to banning Mark.

So, Roswell isn’t admin. Ok.

People are generally only blocked from commenting if we receive numerous complaints (via the ’email us’ facility) about the particular person, and after warnings are given to that person.

When all’s said and done you have the absolute right to ban people for whatever reason you like, up to and including simply not liking them. Opinions are bound to vary, however, as to the efficacy and appropriateness of such action.

Previously, the man in question said:

So every person that is leaving is a true, ridgey ridge refugee.

This notion is undoubtedly true (or the implication of it), but at the same time meaningless, other than as a nifty little exercise in well-poisoning. It means nothing in the broader scheme of things to know that a tiny percentage of refugees might be exploiting a tragic situation to better their lives. What are we to do with such knowledge? Use it to justify ignoring that tragedy? That appears to be the intention of those who raise the contention. It’s done to poison the well of discussion. Pathetic.
The AIM NetworkOctober 31, 2015 at 11:26 am

Yes, he is one of the admin.

Now, can we all please stop talking about Mark Needham?
Backyard BobOctober 31, 2015 at 11:42 am

I believe we can stop talking about Mark but we ought not stop talking about his delusions, because those are everywhere around us. When I toss a few back at the pub I get his sort of blockhead ideas thrown at me by my drinking buddies – and those are the Labor voting ones. It’s terrible.
Annie BOctober 31, 2015 at 3:36 pm

@Paul Walter ….. thank you for your recent kind remarks about my comments.

( Re your post : October 30, 2015 at 5:09 am ).
Mark NeedhamNovember 1, 2015 at 8:32 am

RoswellOctober 28, 2015 at 8:12 pm

Mark Needham, why don’t you piss off. Everyone here has had a gut full of you.

Roswell this is your opening comment to me. And, later you say that you cannot have a decent conversation.
That, you are right about. 100% correct. You do not even try.
To try, I appear to be a troll. You are all very adept at continuing an argument, without even trying to “converse.”

yep, Peace.
I give up.
Mark Needham
mars08November 1, 2015 at 9:42 am

What about me? It isn’t fair…